Jun 18, 2026 Historic District Council

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

[00:00:02]

WE'RE MEETING TO ORDER AT 5 PM.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE. SYLVIE, COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? MEMBER KOSACK? HERE. MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? HERE. MEMBER BYRNES? HERE. MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? HERE.

MEMBER SALA? HERE. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? HERE. LET'S PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ALL RIGHT, LET'S HAVE, BOARD MEMBERS DISCLOSE ANY EX-PARTE COMMUNICATIONS.

HEATHER, WE'LL JUST START ON THIS END. THERE IS NONE.

OKAY. I SPOKE WITH STAFF ON ALL CASES ON THE AGENDA.

THANK YOU. I HAVE NONE. I SPOKE WITH JOSE MIRANDA ON ONE OF THE PROJECTS AND, AND THEN STAFF WITH THE REMAINDER OF THEM.

OH, CAN I AMEND MY EX-PARTE? YES. I ALSO SPOKE WITH AN APPLICANT ON 2026-00116 SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ABOUT THE CONCEPT. OKAY.

BOB? I SPOKE TO A NUMBER OF OLD TOWN RESIDENTS CONCERNING THE GUIDELINES, BOTH PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE OVER THE MONTHS. THANK YOU.

AND I MET WITH STAFF AND REVIEWED ALL OF THE AGENDA ITEMS ON TONIGHT'S LIST HERE. LET ME ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY TO PLEASE PRESENT QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES. CERTAINLY, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. TONIGHT'S CASES ARE ALL QUASI-JUDICIAL IN NATURE. QUASI-JUDICIAL A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING BY STATE STATUTE AND CASE LAW IS DIFFERENT THAN A REGULAR HEARING CONDUCTED BY A BOARD. A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING IS LESS FORMAL THAN A COURT HEARING BUT SIMILAR IN PROCEDURES AND EVIDENCE MATTERS. APPLICANTS HAVE THE BURDEN OF DEMONSTRATING THROUGH COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT HIS OR HER APPLICATION IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES. THOSE OPPOSED MUST ALSO DEMONSTRATE THROUGH COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THE APPLICATION DOES NOT MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS. WHILE THE BOARD WELCOMES COMMENTS FROM ALL WHO HAVE AN INTEREST IN THIS PROCEEDING, FLORIDA LAW REQUIRES THAT THE BOARD'S DECISION IN A QUASI-JUDICIAL ACTION BE SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO THE BOARD DURING THE HEARING ON THE APPLICATION. COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS SUCH EVIDENCE AS A REASONABLE MIND WOULD ACCEPT IT AS AN ADEQUATE AS ADEQUATE TO SUPPORT A CONCLUSION. THERE MUST BE A FACTUAL BASIS IN THE RECORD TO SUPPORT OPINION TESTIMONY FROM BOTH EXPERTS AND NON-EXPERT WITNESSES. GENERAL OBJECTIONS OR SUPPORT WITHOUT SPECIFIC EVIDENCE DOES NOT CONSTITUTE SUBSTANTIAL COMPETENT EVIDENCE. THE ONLY MATERIAL OR RELEVANT EVIDENCE IS THAT WHICH ADDRESSES THE STATUTE CODE REQUIREMENTS, THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT GUIDELINES.

THE APPLICANT IS ENTITLED TO BE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL.

IF ANY OF THE APPLICANTS THIS EVENING DESIRE A CONTINUANCE TO OBTAIN COUNSEL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND MAKE THE REQUEST AT THIS TIME. I SEE MR. FLICK GETTING UP. ARE YOU GOING TO GET COUNSEL? NO. OKAY.

SEEING NONE, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL PROCEED. GENERAL HEARING PROCEDURES THAT WE'LL FOLLOW TONIGHT. STAFF WILL BE SWORN IN, AND ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO GIVE TESTIMONY TONIGHT WILL BE SWORN IN. THE APPLICANT MAY WAIVE THEIR PRESENTATION AND RELY ON STAFF COMMENTS.

AT THIS TIME, DOES ANY APPLICANT WANT TO WAIVE THEIR PRESENTATION? OKAY. THE APPLICANT OR THE REPRESENTATIVE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THEIR EVIDENCE FOR THE APPLICATION. THE PUBLIC PARTICIPANTS FOR OR AGAINST THE APPLICATION APPLICANT APPLICATIONS WILL BE SWORN AND THEN WILL HAVE 3 MINUTES EACH TO PROVIDE TESTIMONY AND PRESENT EVIDENCE TO THE BOARD. EXTENSIONS OF TIME MAY BE GRANTED THROUGH THE CHAIR. PUBLIC PARTICIPANTS PRESENTING EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST THE APPLICATION WILL ADDRESS THE BOARD AT THE PODIUM. ANY DOCUMENTATION OR PHOTOGRAPHS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD SECRETARY SITTING HERE TO MY LEFT, YOUR RIGHT. WHEN THE INDIVIDUAL IS TESTIFYING, THE DOCUMENTS WILL NOT BE RETURNED AS THEY BECOME PART OF THE OFFICIAL RECORD AND MINUTES. THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVES WILL HAVE A MAXIMUM OF 10 MINUTES FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION OF ANY OF THE PARTICIPANTS AND PROVIDE

[00:05:02]

STAFF MAY PROVIDE FINAL COMMENTS TO THE BOARD, AND THEN THE BOARD WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MAKE THEIR DISCUSSIONS AND FIND WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE SUBSTANTIAL COMPETENT EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT OR DENY AN AGENDA ITEM. THIS MEETING IS BEING RECORDED.

THERE CAN BE NO APPLAUSE, OUTBURSTS, TALKING, OR COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE AS IT COULD DISTORT THE RECORDING. MY OFFICE REPRESENTS THIS BOARD AND PROVIDES COUNSEL, INCLUDING ADVICE AS TO HEARING PROCEDURES AND RELEVANCY OF EVIDENCE. WHILE THE STRICT RULES OF EVIDENCE APPLICABLE TO A COURT PROCEEDING WILL NOT BE UTILIZED, THE BOARD, WITH MY ASSISTANCE, MAY EXCLUDE EVIDENCE THAT IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE CODE CRITERIA AS SET FORTH IN THE APPLICATION OR IS REPETITIVE IN NATURE. IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING PROCEDURES, PLEASE ASK THEM AT THIS TIME.

WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, GREAT, THANK YOU. YOU MAY PROCEED.

SO, AT THIS POINT, ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO OR THINKS YOU MIGHT SPEAK DURING THE MEETING, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE SECRETARY ADMINISTER AN OATH TO YOU. SO ANYONE WHO'S GOING TO SPEAK OR MIGHT SPEAK, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE STAND UP AND THE SECRETARY WILL ADMINISTER THE OATH. ALL RIGHT, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND/OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? I DO. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC ITEMS YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT, THERE ARE FORMS IN THE BACK TO FILL OUT THAT THEN GET PASSED UP TO THE FRONT HERE AND, IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY AND YOU WISH TO DO SO, PLEASE, PLEASE GET THOSE FILLED OUT. NEXT ITEM IS

[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]

SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND.

SYLVIE, COULD YOU CALL THE ROLL? MEMBER KOSACK? YES.

MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? YES. MEMBER BYRNES? YES. MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES. MEMBER SALA? YES. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES. ALL RIGHT,

[4.1 HDC2026-0013 - 3S DESIGN STUDIO, AGENT FOR STEVE & ANNE WALL, 306 S. 7TH STREET]

THAT'S HDC 2026-0013. THE BOARD HEARD THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A GARAGE AND WORKSHOP ACCESSORY STRUCTURE CONNECTED BY BREEZEWAY AT THE NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 306 SOUTH 7TH STREET. THE BOARD REQUESTED SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT REGARDING CALLOUTS ON THE SITE PLAN, CLARIFICATION ON MATERIALS, AND SOME OTHER DETAILS ON THE PROJECT THAT WERE DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING. THE APPLICANT PROVIDED THOSE MATERIALS MEETING OUR DEADLINE FOR CASES THAT EARN CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND THEN ARE ALLOWED TO RETURN FOR FINAL APPROVAL FOR THE NEXT MEETING. THEY PROVIDED ME THOSE IN AN ADEQUATE TIMELINE, AND I WAS ABLE TO REVIEW THEM.

TO MEET THE BOARD'S REQUEST.

ON THE BOARD, I HAVE THE REVISED SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE SITUATED ON THE LOT ON THE RIGHT, AND THEN A FLOOR PLAN LAYOUT ON THE LEFT. THE APPLICANT REVISED THE ELEVATIONS. THERE WERE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT VERSIONS THAT THE BOARD SAW AT THE MAY MEETING, SO WE HAVE CLARITY ON THAT CONNECTION PIECE AND THE MATERIALS USED ON THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. AS WELL AS CALLOUTS FOR HEIGHT AND OTHER MATERIALS.

SO THIS IS THE FRONT AND THE REAR ELEVATION, AND THEN THIS SLIDE SHOWS THE RIGHT SIDE AND THE LEFT SIDE ELEVATIONS OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. AND HERE IS A RENDERING THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDED AFTER REVISING SOME OF THAT MATERIAL.

AFTER REVIEWING THE MATERIAL, IT IS CONCURRENT WITH WHAT THE BOARD REQUESTED AT THE PAST MEETING, AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL

[00:10:01]

ALL DRIVEWAYS AT TIME OF PERMITTING WILL BE CONSTRUCTED TO LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REGULATIONS, SO NO WIDER THAN 20 FEET AND NO NARROWER THAN 10 FEET, WITH 3-FOOT FLARES AT THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. AND WITHIN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY, APPLICANTS AND PROPERTY OWNERS ARE REQUIRED TO USE PERMANENT PAVING MATERIAL IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.

BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IT COULD BE GRASS OR COQUINA SHELL OR ANYTHING ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. OKAY, THANK YOU, MIA. IS THE APPLICANT PRESENT? GOOD EVENING. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

DENNIS GREAVES, 3432 RINGTAIL COURT, GREEN COVE SPRINGS, FLORIDA. GREAT. 3S DESIGNS, THANK YOU. OKAY. DO YOU WISH TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROJECT, OR DO YOU WANT TO JUST HAVE SO THE AREA DISCREPANCY, OR, OR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THE FRONT PAGE IS AN AREA SQUARE FOOTAGE, SO IT'S THE OVERALL, AND THEN THERE'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT'S THE INTERIOR SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO I CAN NOTE THAT ON THE PLANS TO, TO SHOW THE SEPARATION OF THAT.

I'M PRETTY SURE THAT YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE IS BASED ON THE OUTSIDE OF WALL TO OUTSIDE OF WALL MEASUREMENT. IT'S NOT AN INTERIOR WALL MEASUREMENT.

SURE. I JUST, I JUST SHOW THAT ON MY PLANS WITH THE AREA PLAN AND THEN THE REGULAR SQUARE FOOTAGE. OKAY.

ON THE FLOOR PLANS. SO, BUT I CAN WILL THAT PUSH YOU OVER THE 625 LIMIT THOUGH? YEAH. YEAH. SLIGHTLY. SO I COULD JUST SQUEEZE IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND GET IT TO THE 625. YEAH, THAT'LL NEED TO THAT'LL DEFINITELY NEED TO HAPPEN. THAT'S PROBABLY MAYBE MOVING THE RIGHT SIDE WALL IN A FOOT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT SHOULD BE FAIRLY EASY. YEAH. BOARD MEMBERS, DID ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR OBSERVATIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I APPRECIATE THE CHANGES IN THE DESIGN. IT'S, IT'S I, I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE, YOU KNOW, THE CRITICISM THAT YOU TOOK LAST TIME. AND THE DESIGN, I THINK, IS MUCH BETTER THAN IT WAS.

AND I DO LIKE THE BRICK WRAPPING, YOU KNOW, THE BRICK AT THE WATER TABLE AT THE BASE AT THE FRONT, AND THAT JUST WRAPS AROUND, I THINK IT'S 16 INCHES OR SO. I THINK THAT THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

AND THEN JUST THAT, AND THE BOARD AND BATTEN IS VERY GOOD.

IT'S ALL THE WAY AROUND NOW.

YEAH. I DID KIND OF QUESTION WHY WE'RE WHY WE JUST KIND OF HAVE A HOLLYWOOD FRONT OF THE, THE BRICK. YOU KNOW, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME LAST MEETING TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO WRAP THIS BUILDING, AND AT ONE POINT IT AT LEAST APPEARED TO ME, OR I THOUGHT, WE WOULD GET ALL 4 SIDES WRAPPED WITH THAT BRICK SKIRT SO IT'S CONSISTENTLY RENDERED ACROSS THE ENTIRE BUILDING.

SURE. I, I THINK THAT WOULD BE FAR MORE APPROPRIATE TO DO IT THAT WAY. IT CERTAINLY WOULD FIT BETTER IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IF ALL THE SIDES WERE RENDERED THE SAME. OR MAYBE AT LEAST THE 3 SIDES THE FRONT, THAT RIGHT SIDE, AND THE BACK. BECAUSE THERE'S THE WINDOW, THE DOOR, AND ALL THAT STUFF ON THAT.

YEAH, YOU'D HAVE MINIMAL PRESSURE ON THAT. NICE. I HAD A

[00:15:05]

BUT OF COURSE WE KNOW HARDIE COMES IN THE CEDAR MILL FINISH TOO. SO IF YOU CAN JUST DEFINE WHAT IT IS YOU WANT TO PUT ON THE HOUSE. MORE THAN LIKELY SMOOTH. YEAH, THAT, I THINK THAT'D BE APPROPRIATE, BUT JUST LABEL IT ON THE DRAWING SO WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE GETTING. THE SHUTTERS, COULD YOU VERIFY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE DRAWINGS THAT THEY'RE HALF THE WIDTH OF THE WINDOW THAT THEY ADDRESS? THEY ARE.

OKAY. THAT'S THE, THE ORIGINAL ONES ARE LIKE THAT TOO. SO I'M MATCHING THE SHUTTERS. AND I NOTED THE WALL SECTION DETAIL SHOWS TRUEBRICK SIDING FOR THAT SKIRT ELEMENT, BUT THEN YOU HAVE NOTES THAT CALL FOR VENEER. WHAT'S THE INTENT? WHAT ARE YOU GOING IT'S GOING TO BE VENEER. OKAY. I THINK, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THAT IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AND IT'S NEW, CONSTRUCTION, THAT, THAT'S FINE. OKAY. I JUST SAW THAT THERE'S A DISCREPANCY.

SURE, I'LL FIX THAT. I NOTED THAT THE EXISTING HOUSE HAS I CALL THEM PORK CHOP EAVES AT THE GABLE END. AND QUITE A FEW OF YOUR NOTES CALL FOR MATCHING EXISTING, BUT THE ELEVATIONS SHOW A RAKED SOFFIT.

AND THE ELEVATION ALSO SHOWS THE EXISTING HOUSE WITH A RAKED SOFFIT. I'M JUST ONCE AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO TIGHTEN UP WHAT THE END INTENT IS, THAT WHAT YOU GIVE US TO APPROVE SHOULD MATCH WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD IN THE FIELD. SO I'D JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. OKAY. AND I ALSO NOTED THE EXISTING HOUSE HAS CORNICE TRIM WHERE THE WALL MEETS THE SOFFIT. I DID NOT SEE THAT ON YOUR DRAWINGS. IF YOU'RE GOING TO MATCH THE HOUSE, I THINK THAT'D BE VERY APPROPRIATE. SO IT GIVES IT TERMINATES THAT BOARD AND BATTEN MUCH BETTER WHEN IT ENDS WITH THESE TRIMS. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, TAKE YOUR CUES FROM THAT EXISTING HOUSE.

IT'LL, IT'LL, IT'LL LOOK GREAT. WE'LL DEFINITELY DO THAT. THANK YOU.

BOARD MEMBERS, YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? AS FAR AS THE DRIVEWAY, I'M JUST SEEING A LINE THAT SAYS STONE MATERIAL. DID YOU HAVE A IT'S GOING TO BE MATERIAL PICKED OUT. SHE WANTS TO DO COQUINA. COQUINA SHELL? YEAH. AND THEN THE STANDING SEAM ROOF, IS THAT PAINTED? IS THAT GALVALUME? IS THERE A COLOR TO IT? I THINK WE'RE GONNA GO WITH THE DARK GRAY. COLOR. THE REST OF THE HOUSE IS ALL SHINGLE, ISN'T IT? THAT'S THAT. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE THERE WITH THE NEW VERSUS THE OLD.

ONE MORE ELEMENT TO THIS HOUSE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, WHY DON'T WE OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC WISHES TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PROJECT, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME UP AND, GIVE YOUR NAME. SEEING NONE, LET'S CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

THAT BRINGS US TO BOARD DISCUSSION. SO I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE SIZE. IF THE SIZE ISN'T HITTING THE CODE, HOW CAN WE EVEN APPROVE IT? I AGREE. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED AND MEET, MEET THAT 425. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS, THAT IS TOO LARGE TO SAY APPROVED WITH THE CONDITION THAT IT'LL COME DOWN IN SQUARE FOOTAGE, RIGHT? OR NO? IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE FRONT ELEVATION BY REDUCING, SO IT IS GOING TO CHANGE THE LOOK OF THE BUILDING. YOU COULD TAKE IT OFF THE BACK. I MEAN, THERE'S YEAH, I CAN TAKE SOME OFF THE BACK OF THE CRAFT AND THEN JUST MOVE IT TO THE RIGHT A LITTLE BIT, AND I'LL, I'LL MEET THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE EASY, AND IT WON'T LOOK ANY DIFFERENT. IT'S JUST GOING TO MOVE THAT GARAGE DOOR OVER JUST A TEENY BIT, BUT I'LL, I'LL TAKE A LITTLE MORE OFF THE BACK SO YOU'RE NOT IT'S NOT NOTICEABLE IN THE FRONT.

YEAH, BUT IT WILL BE NOTICEABLE IN THE FRONT WHEN YOU'RE CUTTING BRICK IN A NOT THE APPROPRIATE, YOU KNOW, LIKE IT'S LESS THAN HALF A BRICK.

LIKE IF YOU'RE CUTTING BRICK, SO IT'S SOME ODD DIMENSION, IT'S NOT IT'S A PRETTY LONG BUILDING TOO. SO IF I TOOK THE RIGHT WALL, JUST MOVED IT A TEENY BIT, THAT'S GOING TO TAKE A GOOD AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE

[00:20:01]

BY MOVING THAT 6 INCHES, I'LL PROBABLY MEET THAT. AND JUST EVEN JUST 6 INCHES ON THE BACK, 4 INCHES ON THE BACK, ALMOST 15. I'LL BE THERE. WELL, LET ME ASK MIA, WOULD YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE REVIEWING IF THAT WAS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL WITH YOU REVIEWING THE RETURNED DRAWINGS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE MAXIM WOULD YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE REVIEWING THAT? I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE REVIEWING FOR THE 625 STANDARD THAT'S MET, BUT SOME OF THE OTHER SOFFITS AND CORNICE ARCHITECTURAL THINGS. I DON'T THINK I HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO LOOK FOR THAT AND FIND THAT IN THE PLANS. IF A BOARD MEMBER WANTED TO SIT IN WITH ME DURING REVIEW, I'M NOT SURE THE LEGALITY OF THAT, MS. PRINCE. IF THEY COULD SIT WITH ME WHEN I RECEIVE THE PLANS FOR BUILDING PERMIT AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MEETING ALL THE CRITERIA THAT THE BOARD HAS SET, I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. YEAH, I JUST, I FEEL LIKE THESE ITEMS ARE PRETTY SIMPLE FOR YOU TO HANDLE, AND I DON'T WANT TO HOLD THEM UP FOR YEAH. A WHOLE NOTHER MONTH IF IT COULD BE HANDLED THAT WAY. I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT QUESTION TO ANSWER. YEAH, WELL, ONE MEMBER CAN'T REALLY REPRESENT THE WHOLE BOARD, SO I MEAN, IF IT ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THOSE THINGS BY DECREASING, OR ARE YOU JUST SAYING YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO REVIEW BASED ON THE OTHER COMMENTS HE'S ASKED FOR? HE'S ASKED FOR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE I COULD HANDLE ON MY OWN.

THEY'VE POINTED OUT SOME DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES, THE SOFFIT. I WON'T I DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE, IN MY OPINION, TO LOOK AT ARCHITECTURAL PLANS AND SEE THAT IT'S MEETING THE EXPECTATION OF THE BOARD. SO, MIA, I THINK THE, DIDN'T APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE A PHOTO OF THE EXISTING HOUSE INCLUDED? WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GET THAT UP THERE? YES. AND I CAN, I COULD POINT OUT SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS. I THINK AS MIA'S PULLING THAT UP, THE OTHER COMMENT I WOULD HAVE, AND I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH TAMMY, GETTING ANOTHER MATERIAL IS A BIT OF A CHALLENGE. AND PERHAPS IF THE OWNER WOULD CONSIDER AN ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF INSTEAD OF THE STANDING SEAM, IT MIGHT BE MORE OF A APPROPRIATE ON THE PROPERTY. SHE'S OKAY WITH THAT. HE'S GOT SUCH A LOW SLOPE ROOF AT THE BACK, HE PROBABLY CAN ONLY DO METAL BACK THERE. OH, YEAH. BUT WITH THE, WITH THE LOW WELL, IT'S A LOW PITCH. YEAH. SO THAT, THAT PART OF THAT BREEZEWAY WOULD HAVE TO BE THAT'S THAT LITTLE, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. I MEAN, THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD BE OKAY. AND THEN IF THE MAJORITY OF THE GARAGES, THE ASPHALT SHINGLES.

YEAH, MAYBE GOOGLE MAPS, CRYSTAL. WE GOT THE CITY HERE.

YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S GOT THAT DROP SOFFIT TOO.

MS. PRINCE, INSTEAD OF A MEMBER OF THE HDC KIND OF SPEAKING FOR THE BOARD, COULD ONE OF THEM ADVISE ME DURING REVIEW? BECAUSE IF THEY CAN MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE CONDITION THAT, AND THEN ONE MEMBER KIND OF SITS IN DURING REVIEW.

WOULD THAT BE ALLOWED? RIGHT, BECAUSE WHAT'S OUR NORMAL PRACTICE? DON'T WE MAKE THEM BRING IT BACK GENERALLY? GENERALLY. IN SOME CASES THEY APPROVE WITH THE CONDITION THAT SOMETHING'S CHANGED BY THE TIME OF REVIEW, SOMETHING THAT I CAN REVIEW.

YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THE MORE APPROPRIATE THING TO DO IS SORT OF BRING IT BACK. SO THE PROGRAM I USE IS VERY, VERY SIMPLE. IT'S REVIT. AND TO DO THE CORNICE AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S 2 CLICKS. IT'S JUST ADDING A FAMILY, WHAT THEY CALL IT. AND I CLICK IT RIGHT ONTO THE ROOF AND IT'S DONE. AND IT WOULD TAKE ME 20 MINUTES. BELIEVE ME, I'M TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GET YOU TO FINISH. I APPRECIATE THAT.

BECAUSE YOU RUN THE RISK, IF I MAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT IF THIS PERSON WHO'S GONNA SIT WITH MS. SADLER, DECIDES YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT, NOW YOU'VE MISSED AN AGENDA DEADLINE. I MEAN, YOU'RE SAFER TO JUST, IF WE CAN GET HIM ON, YOU KNOW, TO COME BACK AND BE ON AN AGENDA. I THINK THAT'S FAIR.

YEAH, BECAUSE IF THAT PARTICULAR BOARD MEMBER DIDN'T THINK YOU MET IT, THEN YOU'D HAVE TO GET ON ANOTHER AGENDA, AND I JUST, IF WE'RE AT A POINT WHERE STAFF CAN'T DO IT, IT'S THE BOARD'S RESPONSIBILITY. WITH THE 4 THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED TO DO TO SHOW THAT, I COULD HAVE THAT TO YOU TOMORROW. THAT'S HOW FAST IT WOULD BE. IT'S JUST SIMPLE CAD WORK. SO ON THE IMAGE RIGHT BEHIND YOU, MIA, IF YOU COULD MOVE IT UP JUST A WELL, LIKE WHERE YOUR CURSOR IS, THAT'S THE CORNICE TRIM RIGHT THERE. OKAY, SO THE BOARD IS JUST REQUESTING THAT THE

[00:25:01]

TO THE RIGHT, MOVE YOUR CURSOR TO THE RIGHT ON THAT. RIGHT THERE. RIGHT THERE. THERE IT IS. THAT'S THE PORK CHOP.

THAT'S THE PORK CHOP, WHICH IS THE TECHNICAL TERM FOR A GREEK REVEAL, THEY CALL IT. YEAH, AND WHERE WOULD THAT OCCUR ON THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? SAME PLACE ON THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

YEAH, OKAY. THE OTHER THING I MIGHT ADD IS, I MEAN, THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY. IF WE'RE PUTTING WANTING TO PUT CORRECT WIDTH SHUTTERS IN THERE, SHOULD WE GO AHEAD AND PUT CORRECT WIDTH SHUTTERS ON THERE AND CHANGE THOSE ON THE NOW IT'S LIKE, WHAT DO WE MATCH? WHAT DON'T WE MATCH? I KNOW. YOU KNOW, AND IF WE GO TO A SHINGLE ROOF THAT'S MATCHING THE SHINGLE ROOF, BUT THEN WE HAD THE METAL ROOF, BUT THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

BUT THEN I'M TRYING TO MATCH THE SHUTTERS WITH THE EXISTING, SO LIKE, IT'S BALLS IN THE AIR. LIKE, WHICH ONE DO YOU MATCH AND WHICH DO YOU NOT? SO YEAH.

WELL, NOW THAT YOU'VE SEEN THE ELEMENTS DESCRIBED, MIA, DO YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE REVIEWING FOR THAT? YES. AWESOME. YEAH, I AGREE, IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

THAT'S ME TAKING A BOARD. THE BRACKETS, OR IS THAT THE PORK CHOP? YEAH, THAT, THAT'S OKAY, I THOUGHT YOU HAD SAID LIKE THE BRACKETS HOLDING UP.

THE OTHER THING YOU MENTIONED WAS INSTEAD OF JUST THE FACADE, THE, VENEER, THE HOLLYWOOD VENEER OF THE BRICK, TO CARRY THAT ON. AND I CAN WRAP IT. I KIND OF FEEL LIKE IF WE'RE GONNA WRAP IT ON THE RIGHT SIZE WRAP IT ON THE LEFT. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT FOUR PLUS FEET BEFORE THE GATE STARTS. I THINK IT WOULD LOOK ODD IF THAT JUST STOPPED RIGHT THERE. I'LL TAKE IT ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE WALL, TO THE GATE WALL, TO WHERE THE DOOR IS GOING INTO THE CRAFT ROOM. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THAT'LL LOOK SO MUCH BETTER BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE ENTERING ALL THE TIME. ABSOLUTELY. HAVE THAT BRICK STOP. THAT'LL LOOK GOOD.

YEP. YOU PUT THIS INTO THE. I THINK THAT ENTRY LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER TOO, AND IT DOES WITH THE DIFFERENT CHANGE OF MATERIALS. THAT LOOKS REALLY NICE. THANK YOU. AND THEN I GUESS IN THIS CASE, DIFFERING FROM LAST MEETING, AN ITEMIZED LIST OF THINGS THAT I WILL HAVE TO CHECK UPON REVIEW WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. YEAH. I CAN HELP YOU TOO, MIA. THANK YOU. I'LL WALK YOU THROUGH IT. SO I SEE BOARD MEMBERS WRITING HERE. AND, WHENEVER SOMEBODY FEELS CONFIDENT IN MAKING A MOTION MADAM ATTORNEY, COULD WE YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION. NO, NO, CAN WE REFERENCE THOSE ITEMS LISTED IN THE MINUTES? I MEAN, THERE'S A LONG LIST. YOU WELL, APPROVAL BASED ON THE ITEMS BROUGHT UP DURING DISCUSSION.

BUT WELL, BEFORE YOU MAKE THE MOTION, MAKE SURE THAT YOU'VE GOT THE LIST RIGHT, AND THEN YOU CAN.

BECAUSE I MEAN, I, I ONLY HEARD 3, AND ARE WE GOING FOR 5? I MEAN, IS THE ROOF IN, OUT? SO I DON'T THINK YOU CAN JUST SAY OKAY.

WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS? WHO, WHO CAN ELOQUENTLY STATE THEM BEFORE A MOTION IS MADE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION, AND IF I'M MISSING SOMETHING, YOU GUYS JUMP IN AND WE'LL AMEND AS NEEDED. I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2026-0013, WITH CONDITIONS WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: THAT THE ACCESSORY BUILDING IS BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE OF A MAXIMUM OF 625 SQUARE FEET, THAT THERE ARE CALLOUTS FOR THE TEXTURE OF THE HARDIE, THAT THE BRICKS VENEER WAINSCOT WHAT ARE WE SAYING, ALL 4 SIDES? EXTENDS 4 SIDES AROUND THE BUILDING, THAT THE CORNICE TRIM AND PORK CHOP EAVES ARE MATCHED FROM THE MAIN BUILDING ON THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

OKAY. IS THAT GOOD? ROOF OF THE GARAGE IS CHANGED TO ASPHALT SHINGLE. SO WE'RE DEFINITELY GOING WITH ASPHALT? I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK, I THINK WE JUST HAVE THEM CONSIDER IT.

OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. AND MAYBE CONSIDER THE ROOF. I COULD SHOW BOTH AND SAY OPTION. OKAY. AND I MOVE THAT THE HEC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD, THAT CASE HEC 2026 00113 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES

[00:30:01]

MEMBER BYRNES? YES. MEMBER KOSACK? YES. MEMBER SALA? YES.

MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I FELT LIKE WE WERE REALLY CLOSE, SO I FELT PRETTY STRONGLY THAT WE SHOULD GET YOU THROUGH TO THE END. WE'RE GETTING MIA HER ARCHITECTURE DEGREE. ALL RIGHT, LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE,

[5.1 HDC 2026-0015 - STURGES & STURGES CONSTRUCTION INC., AGENT FOR JOHN STILLWELL 31 SOUTH 5TH STREET LLC, 31 S. 5TH STREET]

WE'LL START WITH HDC 2026-0015. THIS IS THE APPLICATION IS APPLIED FOR A FINAL CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL TO REBUILD THE FRONT PORCH, REPLACE POSTS, AND REBUILD THE SECOND-STORY DECK ON A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE ON THE CORNER OF ASH STREET AND SOUTH 5TH STREET. EARLIER THIS YEAR, THERE WAS A COMPLAINT FROM THE PUBLIC, AND THE STRUCTURE WAS REPORTED TO CODE ENFORCEMENT SINCE THE DECK APPEARED TO BE LEANING AND SEPARATING FROM THE BUILDING OFFICIAL WAS CALLED OUT TO THE PROPERTY AND UPON INSPECTION OF THE PROPERTY DEEMED THE STRUCTURE UNSAFE, AND IT WAS CLOSED FOR USE BY THE PUBLIC AND THE TENANTS WHO WERE INHABITING THE BUILDING.

THERE'S A RESIDENTIAL USE ON THE SECOND FLOOR, AND THERE WAS A COMMERCIAL CAFE USE ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR. THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DECISION AND THE DECISION FROM THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AS WELL AS THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WAS AN EMERGENCY ACTION TO REMOVE THE FRONT DECK TO PROTECT LIFE SAFETY, ESPECIALLY LEADING UP TO SHRIMP FEST AND OTHER EVENTS DOWNTOWN. SO THE FRONT DECK WAS DEMOLISHED AND SUPPORT BEAMS WERE RUN FROM, THE FIRST FLOOR ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR. SO THESE ARE SOME PICTURES THAT I TOOK BEFORE THE EMERGENCY ACTION WAS UNDERTAKEN, AND YOU CAN SEE THE BUILDING IS KIND OF LEANING TO THE RIGHT. AND SOME OF THE PIECES ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE SECOND-STORY DECK WERE ROTTED AND FALLING APART. I TOOK A PICTURE OF THAT BRICK WALL AT THE FRONT TO SHOW THE VARIATION IN BRICK THERE. AND ON THE SIDE, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BRICK PORCH AROUND THE BOTTOM APPEARS TO BE FROM A DIFFERENT TIME FROM THE REST OF THE STRUCTURE. SO IT WAS DETERMINED BY OUR OFFICE THAT THAT IS A MORE MODERN ADDITION TO THE STRUCTURE AND NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, THAT BRICK SKIRT ON THE BOTTOM. THE APPLICANT APPLIED USING THESE ELEVATIONS.

PART OF THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTION WAS FOR THEM TO APPLY TO THE NEXT AVAILABLE HDC MEETING WITH A PLAN TO REBUILD THE DECK. AND THIS IS THE PLAN THAT WE'VE RECEIVED TODAY. YOU HAVE OTHER ITEMS IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET DETAILING THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS FOR THE NEW DECK. THE MAIN CHANGE ON THE DECK IS THE REMOVAL OF THAT BRICK WALL ON THE FRONT PORCH AND THEN A REPLACEMENT WITH A MORE CLASSIC RAILING TO MATCH WHAT'S ON THE 2ND-STORY DECK. STAFF IS COMFORTABLE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT PER THE STAFF REPORT. I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY WITH THE BOARD CLARIFICATION ON RAILING HEIGHT. I SPOKE WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL THIS MORNING, AND HE STATED THAT UP-TO-CODE RAILINGS ARE 42 INCHES, WHEREAS THE PLANS SHOW 36 INCHES OR 3 FEET. WE HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND RAILINGS. AND WE TALKED ABOUT HOW HISTORIC STRUCTURES MAY RETAIN THE EXISTING HEIGHT OF THE RAIL SO LONG AS THE PROJECT DOESN'T EXCEED 30% OF THE BUILDING VALUE. SO STAFF IS REQUESTING SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THE OVERALL COST OF THE PROJECT VERSUS BUILDING VALUE TO SEE IF THAT RAILING HEIGHT CAN REMAIN AT 36 INCHES. IF NOT, THE RAILING HEIGHT WILL HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UP TO 42 INCHES TO MEET FLORIDA BUILDING CODE. OTHER THAN THAT, STAFF IS ABLE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS CASE TONIGHT. THANK YOU. GREAT. THANK YOU, MIA.

BOARD, DO ANY OF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MIA? MIA, CAN YOU CLARIFY THE, THE, THE CODE IS, IT'S 36. AND I KNOW WE SPOKE ABOUT THIS, I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT.

36 INCHES RAILING HEIGHT FOR RESIDENTIAL, BUT 42 FOR COMMERCIAL? I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. SO IN THIS SENSE, ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A SECOND FLOOR APARTMENT. THIS IS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, AND I KNOW THIS IS THE PERCENTAGE OF THE CONSTRUCTION, THE 30% AND ALL THAT, BUT WE WOULD LEAN TOWARDS MY GUT FEELING IS WE LEAN TOWARDS 42 INCHES FOR THE ENTIRE GUARDRAIL. SO, SO I, I MEAN, THIS IS, THIS IS A COMMERCIAL BUILDING, RIGHT? SO IT'S YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THAT. THANK YOU.

I'M PRETTY SURE IT IS ZONED C-3 AS WELL. YEAH. SO THE EXISTING OR FUTURE LAND USE WOULD BE COMMERCIAL POSSIBLY GOING FORWARD. THANK YOU. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A QUESTION FOR DAVID OR FOR YOU, BUT IF THEY THEY'RE REPLACING THAT RAILING OBVIOUSLY,

[00:35:02]

YEAH, LESS THAN 4 BY 4. YEAH. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. I DIDN'T NECESSARILY EXAMINE THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE WHEN REVIEWING THE ELEVATIONS.

OKAY. SEEING NO MORE QUESTIONS FROM ME, WHY DON'T WE ASK THE APPLICANT TO COME UP AND WHILE YOU'RE COMING UP, I JUST WANTED TO I WANT TO SAY THAT I'M REALLY HAPPY YOU GUYS ARE DOING THIS PROJECT. THAT'S A, THAT'S A GREAT CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

THERE'S AWESOME PEOPLE WHO LIVE UPSTAIRS, AND THERE'S AN AWESOME RESTAURANT DOWNSTAIRS THAT ALL OF US ENJOY. SO, THANKS FOR TAKING THIS ON. A LITTLE FAMILY HERITAGE THERE TOO, RIGHT? GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE HTC STAFF AND ANYBODY ELSE APPROPRIATE THAT WOULD LIKE TO LISTEN. I'M HERE AND INHERITED THIS PROJECT. IT IS KIND OF FAMILY, SO, I'M DOING IT ON BEHALF OF MY COUSIN.

HOWEVER THE CASE MAY BE, I WOULD DO THE PROJECT FOR ANYBODY. THE I CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS PROBABLY RIGHT OUT THE GATE BEFORE WE GET INTO IT, BUT WE ARE GOING TO REBUILD THESE 2 DECKS, YOU KNOW, AS CLOSE TO AS POSSIBLE. HOWEVER, YOU BRING UP THE FACT THAT I WILL BREAK OUT MY POINTER. IT DOESN'T SHOW UP ON THE SCREEN VERY WELL.

HOWEVER THE CASE OH, THERE WE GO. IT DOESN'T SHOW UP. HOWEVER THE CASE, THE RAILING THE RAILING. ON THE BOTTOM DECK POSSIBLY IS NOT 30 INCHES OR HIGHER. SO ACCORDING TO BUILDING CODE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, IF IT'S LESS THAN 30 INCHES OR BELOW, IT WOULD NOT EVEN REQUIRE A HANDRAIL.

THE HANDRAIL'S THERE JUST FOR BEAUTIFICATION, AND IT IS COMMERCIAL, SO SOMEBODY WALKING AROUND, SO THAT WOULD MAKE IT THERE.

BUT THE REASON THE ARCHITECT ORIGINALLY DID 36 INCHES IS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT WAS CURRENTLY. OKAY. YES. AND SO TO MEET THE CODE, WE THOUGHT WE WOULD LEAVE IT FOR THE HDC TO DETERMINE THAT.

BUT IF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL FEELS IT CAN BE 42 INCHES, I DON'T THINK THE APPLICANT CARES THAT WE RAISE IT, THE BOTTOM TO 42 INCHES AND INSTALL IT, AND THE TOP TO 42 INCHES.

HOWEVER, IF WE MAKE THE PICKETS AT 3.5 ACCORDING TO CODE, THEY WON'T BE WHAT THEY WERE WHEN THEY WERE OUT THERE WITH I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER WAY OF DOING IT OTHER THAN PUTTING PICKETS IN AT 3.5 INCHES TO MEET CODE. HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL? WILL HE REQUIRE THAT? YOU KNOW, I DID NOT HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH HIM ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, COULD YOU THE SPANDRELS UP THERE MATCH THE DISTANCE, THE WIDTH OF THE PICKETS? IT'S REALLY NOT FAR OFF. THEY'RE LIKE AT 4.5 OR SO AND NOT 3.5.

SO THEY'RE ONLY ABOUT AN INCH OFF ORIGINALLY.

THEY WERE ONLY THERE'S NOTHING OUT THERE ANYMORE, BUT THEY WERE ONLY ABOUT AN INCH OFF. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO HAVE TO DO THAT WE FOUND OUT DURING EXPLORATION OF DEMOLISHING THE DECK THAT WAS FALLING DOWN AND CAUSING THE ROOF TO LEAN WAS THAT THERE IS NO BEAM AT THE UPPER PART OF THIS STRUCTURE. SO MY POINTER'S NOT WORKING, BUT IMAGINE THAT TOP LINE ACROSS THERE. WHERE IT HAS A LITTLE DETAIL, LIKE THE DETAIL AT THE VERY TOP. ABOVE THAT, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO INSTALL A BEAM. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THE SIDING OFF AND PUT THE SIDING, NEW WOOD SIDING, RIGHT BACK ON TO MATCH. HOWEVER THE CASE MAY BE, I'M JUST POINTING THIS OUT SO THAT YOU'RE AWARE. IT'S IN OUR PLANS, BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE BECAUSE STRUCTURALLY, THE STRUCTURE IS WAS IN REALLY BAD SHAPE AND COULD HAVE FALLEN. OKAY. YES. SO THAT HAS TO BE DONE. AND THEN SECONDLY, WE ARE GOING TO PUT THE PIERS BACK, WHICH ARE MORE PERIOD-APPROPRIATE.

AND PROBABLY WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY THERE WAS PIERS UNDER EACH ONE WITH WRAPPED BRICK. NOW WE CAN'T REALLY USE ORIGINAL BRICK, THERE ISN'T ANY AROUND, BUT WE'RE GOING TO USE THE CLOSEST MATCH THAT WE CAN TO THE BRICK. THE GENTLEMAN THAT DID THE REPAIR ON THE REAR OF THIS BUILDING MR. RICHARDSON, HE'S GOING TO DO THE BRICKWORK ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING.

SO, OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S PRETTY CUT AND DRIED.

IT'S ALL WOOD FOR WOOD. THERE IS REALLY NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE FROM WHAT WAS OUT THERE PREVIOUSLY. COLOR IS GOING TO MATCH EXISTING.

NOTHING'S CHANGING COLOR-WISE, MATERIAL-WISE, NOTHING'S CHANGING. OKAY.

[00:40:05]

SO WE'RE GOING TO RUN A BEAM ACROSS THE BACK, SO STRUCTURALLY NOTHING WILL BE ACTUALLY IT'S GOING TO BE CONNECTED TO THE BUILDING, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT, THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HOLDING IT UP. SO IT'LL BE ON THE BRICK. IT'LL BE JUST FACING, LIKE TOUCHING THE BRICK IN THE BACK. YEAH. I THINK THAT'S REALLY ALL THE DETAILS THAT I CAN EXPLAIN OTHER THAN WHAT IT ORIGINALLY WAS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD IDEA. YOU BASICALLY, YOU PUT A NEW ROW OF COLUMNS BACK AGAINST THE BUILDING. THAT WAS MY IDEA ACTUALLY WHEN I INHERITED, SORRY, I YEAH. THAT WAS MY IDEA WHEN I INHERITED THIS PROJECT, BECAUSE THE ARCHITECT DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN THERE. AND I SAID, THERE REALLY NEEDS TO BE STRUCTURE BACK THERE OTHER THAN WHAT'S THERE. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE BUILDING THIS AS A SEPARATE CORRECT. THE LOAD IS ALL BEING CARRIED RIGHT UP THERE, WHICH IS IMPORTANT FOR THAT BUILDING, BECAUSE WHEN TED DID THE BACK, IT WAS ABOUT TO FALL DOWN. OH YEAH. THAT BACK WALL. SO THERE'S NO TELLING WHAT ELSE IS HAPPENING THERE.

BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT PLAN.

IT HISTORICALLY SHOULD MATCH.

AND WE CAN MAKE THE DETAIL AT THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM AND THE HANDRAIL MATCH. IF WE NEED TO DO 42 INCHES, WE CAN DO 42 INCHES. I DON'T THINK THE APPLICANT CARES. SO YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE WRAPPING THE PIERS, WHICH IT APPEARS THERE, BUT ON THE PLANS IT JUST SHOWS A STEM POUR AND IT DOESN'T CALL OUT WRAPPING THE PIERS. IT SHOULD SAY WRAP BRICK SOMEWHERE. MAYBE I MISSED IT.

TO MATCH. IT SHOULD SAY THAT.

BECAUSE I JUST KEPT LOOKING AT IT AND LOOKING AT IT AND ALL I FOUND SO THERE IS A WALL SECTION IF YOU GO DOWN, TAMMY. SO IS ALL THE EXISTING BRICK ON THE FRONT PORCH DOWN TO GRADE BEING REMOVED? I IT CLEARLY IS 2 DIFFERENT BRICKS.

EVERYTHING IS REMOVED. EVERY FOUNDATION, EVERYTHING, THE STAIRWAY, EVERYTHING WILL GET REBUILT.

AND, AND FROM YOUR UNDERSTANDING, NONE OF THAT BRICK IS ORIGINAL? NONE OF IT IS ORIGINAL. OKAY, ALL RIGHT. NO, EVEN THE BRICK THAT THEY HAVE AT THAT BOTTOM SECTION, EVEN THOUGH IT'S DETERIORATED, IT WAS NOT ORIGINAL FOR THAT TIME PERIOD. SO YOU'RE GOING TO COME BACK IN WITH NEW BRICK PIERS AND WELL, THEY'LL BE CONCRETE CMUS UNDERNEATH. YEAH, YEAH, WRAPPED IN BRICK. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO WRAP EVERY ONE OF THEM WITH BRICK, IF YOU CAN SEE THAT. IT SHOULD SAY IT SOMEWHERE, I'M POSITIVE. OKAY, AS LONG AS WE HAVE THAT ON THERE, I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT. THAT'S WOULD IT BE IN A DIFFERENT SPOT? THOSE BRICK THAT'S ON THERE, YOU KNOW, I ALMOST FEEL LIKE THEY USED KIND OF OLD BRICK WHENEVER THEY DID THE INFILL ON THE PORCH, AND THEN THEY USED THE WRONG MORTAR BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S SPALLING AND THERE'S SO MUCH WATER MOISTURE AND THEY'RE JUST, THEY'RE, THEY'RE BREAKING OUT COMPLETELY. IT'S IN BAD SHAPE. SO MIA, THE WALL SECTION DETAIL IS ON SHEET A-1 AND IT'S IN THE UPPER, UPPER LEFT CORNER OF THE DRAWING. THAT, THAT PARTICULAR DETAIL, MR. STURGIS, IT DOESN'T SHOW THE BRICK. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO SHOW THE BRICK ON THAT DETAIL BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE GOING TO UNDERSTAND THE WHERE? OKAY, BECAUSE IF YOU USE REAL BRICK, IT'S GOING TO PROJECT OUT, RIGHT? OH, RIGHT. IT'S GONNA YEAH, IT'S GONNA BE FURTHER. THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT. AND THEN THE DECKING, YOU REALLY WANT THAT TO BE BEYOND THE BRICK TOO. SO THAT'S GOING TO COME OUT TOO.

SO IT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO LOOK LIKE THAT DETAIL IS SHOWING RIGHT NOW. IT PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE JUST FINESSED A LITTLE BIT MORE. AND I NOTED WHEN I WAS DRIVING HERE TONIGHT, THAT EXISTING DECK IS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE SIDEWALK.

I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE STARTS AND STOPS. RIGHT THERE AT THAT SIDEWALK. YEAH, THAT'S THE PROPERTY LINE.

YEAH. SO YOU MAY NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND AS YOU DRAW THAT DETAIL, BECAUSE IT MAY NEED TO COME IN THE PORCH MAY NEED TO COME IN A LITTLE BIT TO, TO HONOR THE PROPERTY LINE.

RIGHT. I MEAN, THE BRICK CAN'T GO PAST IT.

CORRECT. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH, IT'S A DIFFERENT WALL SECTION.

YEAH. I MEAN, AND THAT JUST IS WHEN IT THAT COMES INTO PLAY WHEN THEY POUR THE FOOTINGS.

YOU GOT TO MOVE THEM THAT WAY OR THAT WAY TO ALLOW FOR THE BRICK. WELL, WE'LL HAVE TO ALLOW FOR IT WHEN WE LAY IT OUT. AND YOU'RE DOING IT, RIGHT? YEP.

SO THAT'S YEAH, THAT'S GOOD.

THE OTHER THING THAT IS SIMILAR TO THIS IS ON YOUR ELEVATIONS THE DRAWINGS, IT, IT APPEARS THAT SO I'M ASSUMING, AND LOOKING AT THIS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE TUCKING A BEAM OR YOU'RE PUTTING A BEAM, AND THEN YOU HAVE

[00:45:01]

OR THAT MATERIAL. IT JUST SHOWS A STRAIGHT COLUMN. SO THESE THOSE 2 THINGS JUST IT WOULD BE WOOD TRIM. I MEAN, THAT'S RIGHT. NONE OF IT'S GOING TO BE ANYTHING BUT WOOD TRIM. SO I THINK THAT'D BE GOOD WHEN YOU WORK ON THAT WALL SECTION, CALL THAT OUT, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY GOOD FOR US TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND. I LOVE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT WRAP, WRAP THEM IN WOOD. THAT'S GOING TO HIDE ALL THOSE FASTENERS.

IT'S GOING TO LOOK GOOD.

WELL, THERE WERE NO FASTENERS.

RIGHT, RIGHT. TOENAIL. THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN THAT TIME.

AND YOUR NEW ONE WILL. YES. YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOS OF THE ORIGINAL BECAUSE THOSE COLUMNS DON'T HAVE CAP TRIM OR BASE TRIM. YOU MAY WANT TO JUST KEEP IT LOOKING LIKE THE ORIGINAL DID, INSTEAD OF HAVING A LITTLE COLUMN CAP AND COLUMN BASE. LET IT LOOK LIKE THE ORIGINAL ONE. HOW WILL HE CONCEAL HIS HARDWARE THOUGH? WELL, HE'S GONNA WRAP IT IN WOOD TRIM. I CAN JUST WRAP IT IN WOOD TRIM. THE WHOLE COLUMN FLUSH. I COULD WRAP THE WHOLE COLUMN, RIGHT. YEAH, YEAH. THEN ON THE ORIGINAL WE HAVE SOME VERY NICE LITTLE SCROLL-CUT DOODADS. YEAH. AND I DON'T KNOW. ARE THEY ORIGINAL THOUGH? I DON'T KNOW. NO, I DON'T KNOW. THEY LOOK LIKE ONE OF MY YEAH, THEY LOOK LIKE I KNOW, I SAW THAT TOO, AND I'D BE HARD-PRESSED TO SAY THEY WERE ORIGINAL. AND WERE THEY SAVED? WELL, THAT'S THE OTHER I CAN PROBABLY ADJUST THE DETAIL FOR THE FOUNDATION PLAN.

THAT'S NOT DIFFICULT. I MEAN, THAT'S SIMPLE, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, JUST SAY WRAPPED POST AND, YOU KNOW, AND KNOWING THAT YOU'VE GOT TO PUT THAT FRONT BEAM IN THERE, I NOTICED THAT, THAT FRONT GABLE SIDING IS BADLY DETERIORATED. OH. SO YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO REPLACE ALL OF THAT? WE'LL HAVE TO REPLACE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

SO THAT, IN-KIND, SAME THING? IN-KIND, YEP, WOOD. AND ONE OF THE DEFINING FEATURES SO WE'LL PROBABLY END UP ACTUALLY HAVING TO MAKE IT, LIKE MILL IT, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE IT'S EXACTLY LIKE 1X8 OR WHATEVER, AND IT'S NOT NOVELTY AND IT'S NOT SHIPLAP. IT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WAS MADE AT THAT TIME. ONE THING, DAVID, I CAN'T QUITE GET IS ON THE MASTER FILE SITE FROM, I THINK, EITHER '72 OR '80 WHEN THEY DID IT, ONE OF THE DEFINING FEATURES OF THIS BUILDING IS THAT GABLE I CALL IT A DOVECOTE THAT THEY CALL THE 16-LIGHT WINDOW. YOU CAN SEE IT THERE. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL ONE? AND IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S BEEN REPLACED, 'COS NOW IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP INTO THE PEAK, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE ARE ACTUAL GLASS LIGHTS IN THERE, OR IF IT'S JUST MADE TO LOOK LIKE IT, BUT WE SHOULD TAKE CARE TO, TO KEEP THAT FEATURE AND REPAIR IT OR DO ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE WHEN YOU'RE WORKING IN THERE. IT ISN'T CURRENTLY LIKE THAT, BUT I KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN, LIKE RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO THE AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S A HOLE IF YOU IF YOU LOOK OUT THERE RIGHT NOW, I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE IS IT GLASS? STILL GLASS? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. I DON'T KNOW WITHOUT GOING ALL THE WAY UP THERE TO CHECK IT OUT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PRETTY IMPORTANT THING BECAUSE IT WAS NOTED IN THE, ON THE MASTER PLAN. IT APPEARS TO BE GLASS. IT APPEARS THAT WAY, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT.

YEAH, SO I WOULD ASSUME IT IS, BUT WITHOUT GOING OUT THERE, I DON'T KNOW. WELL, I THINK THE MAIN INTENT OF YOUR COMMENT TAMMY, IS WE SHOULD KEEP THAT FEATURE AS IT, AS IT IS.

REPAIR WHAT NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED, BUT DON'T LOSE IT. RIGHT.

WELL, WE WEREN'T PLANNING ON GETTING THAT FAR UP. LIKE, WE WERE PLANNING ON GETTING UP TO THE BEAM HEIGHT, UP TO THE BEAM HEIGHT, AND REPAIRING WHAT, WHAT'S NECESSARY, YOU KNOW, TO GET IT BACK TO ITS GLORY.

YEAH. I NOTED ON THE DRAWINGS THAT THE NEW STAIRS ARE CALLED OUT AS JUST CONCRETE. THE EXISTING ONES LOOK AT LEAST THEY LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF THEM ARE BRICK, PAINTED BRICK. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS FEEL. IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BRICK OR IF IT'S ETCHED. IT'S JUST ETCHED INTO THE CONCRETE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. THEY'RE PRETTY BAD EITHER WAY. I'D ASK YOU TO. BUT ALL THE FOUNDATIONS ARE DEFINITELY NOT, IT'S, IT'S OF DIRE STRAITS. LET'S JUST SAY THAT. I'D ASK YOU TO THINK ABOUT THOSE STAIRS. OKAY. NOT JUST DO CONCRETE BECAUSE

[00:50:01]

DRAWINGS AND THE CHANGES. AND I, I KNOW THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY I MEAN, MAYBE THIS IS MEANT FOR BOARD DISCUSSION THAT WE WOULD LOOK FOR MORE DETAIL ON THE ELEVATIONS. AND I DON'T WANT TO HOLD THE PROJECT UP, BUT THERE SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SOME THINGS WE NEED TO REALLY DISCUSS HERE IN TERMS OF MOVING FORWARD.

BUT I WOULD THINK WE'D HOLD ON TO THE BRICK STAIRS BECAUSE THEY DO LOOK LIKE THEY'RE BRICK. OR AT LEAST GO BACK WITH NEW BRICKS. YEAH, NO, YEAH, CORRECT. PAINTED OR BRICK BRICK? BRICK BRICK WOULD LOOK NICE. YEAH. ONE OTHER QUESTION ON THOSE STAIRS. I DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT RAILING WAS ADDED, BUT IT DOES LOOK LIKE IT'S GOT SOME AT LEAST HISTORIC ELEMENTS.

IT'S GOT A HAIRPIN DETAIL TO IT, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE BLACK RAILING ON EITHER SIDE OF THE STAIRS.

MIA, IF YOU GO TO THE CURRENT GO TO THE STAFF REPORT. I DON'T THINK ORIGINALLY IT WAS THERE. I THINK IT'S AN ADD-ON. IT'S KIND OF NEAT THOUGH, LIKE RIGHT THERE. WELL, EVEN, EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T USE THAT PIECE, YOU HAVE ENOUGH RISERS THERE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A NEW RAILING FOR THE STAIRS. SO WE PROBABLY NEED TO SEE WHAT THAT'S GOING TO BE. AND REALLY, THAT DOESN'T MEET CODE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXTEND 12 INCHES. WELL, NONE OF THIS MEETS HISTORIC EXEMPTION.

WELL, I THINK MY I HAD 2 QUESTIONS. THE 5/4 DECKING, IS THAT 5/4 BY 6? 5/4 BY 4? OKAY, SO YOU'RE GOING BACK WITH WHAT IS THERE? THAT'S WHAT'S THERE. YEAH. OKAY. AND THEN I WOULD, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER TONGUE AND GROOVE MATERIAL. I THINK IT LOOKS A LOT BETTER ON THESE BUILDINGS.

BUT THAT'S A DESIGN DECISION.

WHEN YOU GO TO REPLACE THOSE 6X6S, I KNOW THAT ROOF, THE FRONT OF THAT GABLE KIND OF TAKES A NOSEDIVE TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THAT BUILDING. ARE YOU JUST GOING BACK WITH THE 6X6S? ARE YOU RAISING? ARE YOU THINKING OF CHANGING THE LEVEL? WE'RE GONNA LEVEL THE HEAD BEAM WHEN WE PUT THE HEADER IN. BUT, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SO FAR, WHAT WE'VE SCHEDULED TO DO IS TO LEVEL THE HEAD BEAM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, INSTALL THE HEADER, INSTALL ALL NEW POSTS, YOU KNOW, BUILD IT BACK TO CODE. TRULY, YOU, YOU WOULDN'T THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DETAIL, BUT OUR DRAWING DOESN'T HAVE THOSE LITTLE FUNNY THINGS THAT YOU KNOW, I CAN'T POINT TO IT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS.

BASICALLY, SOMEBODY TOOK PLYWOOD AND NOTCHED OUT JUST SOME DECORATIVE DETAIL, BUT THAT REALLY WASN'T ORIGINAL.

SO YEAH, IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT JACKING UP THE FRONT OF THAT, I'D JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, BE MINDFUL OF THAT WINDOW. THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY PIECE THERE. WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TOO FAR. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ONLY DROPPED ABOUT THAT MUCH. ABOUT 3, 3, 4 INCHES. EVERY TIME I LOOK AT IT, IT GETS BIGGER AND BIGGER.

WELL, WE REALLY WOULD LOVE TO BE OUT THERE DOING IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT DONE THE RIGHT WAY.

WILL YOU KEEP THE RAFTERS EXPOSED ON THE FIRST FLOOR PORCH, THE CEILING RAFTERS? YES.

OKAY, AND THEN COVER THE SECOND FLOOR AS IS, OR KEEP THOSE EXPOSED? THEY WERE COVERED WITH YOU CAN SEE THAT. OR DO YOU WILL YOU OH, YOU MEAN THE SECOND STORY ROOF? YEAH, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT MESSING WITH THE ROOF. IT'S STAYING AS IS. OKAY, SO THAT'S STAYING AS IS, BUT THE FIRST ONE YOU WOULD KEEP YOUR THE SECOND-STORY DECK, WHICH WOULD BE YOUR FIRST-FLOOR CEILING, IS EXPOSED, AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO LEAVE IT EXPOSED JUST LIKE IT WAS. GREAT. ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR MR. STURGIS? ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. WHY DON'T WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? IF ANYONE WANTS TO COME UP AND SPEAK TOWARDS THIS PROJECT, YOU'RE WELCOME TO. SEEING NOBODY, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO THAT BRINGS US TO BOARD DISCUSSION.

VERONICA, I THINK IF THERE'S DO YOU HAVE YOU CREATED A LIST OF THINGS YOU'D WANT TO SEE

[00:55:01]

SO I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST THING. IS CODE 46 OR 42? IT'S 42. BUT I THINK DAVID WAS RIGHT THAT WHEN THE SURFACE OF THE DECK IS LESS THAN 30 INCHES FROM THE GRADE, FROM GRADE, YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A RAILING. SO DOES IT LOOK APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU'VE GOT 36 ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND 42 ON THE SECOND? I THINK RIGHT NOW THAT BRICK THE BRICK ELEMENT THAT IS ACTING AS A RAILING ON THE FIRST FLOOR IS PROBABLY IS NOT IT MIGHT BE 42 FROM THE STREET, BUT IT'S NOT 42 FROM THE, FROM THE DECK.

AGREED.

BUT IF IT'S THE SAME MATERIAL, THEN SHOULD IT BE THE SAME HEIGHT? I DON'T I DON'T WITHOUT SEEING A DRAWING, I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO LOOK APPROPRIATE IF THEY'RE PROPOSING TO CHANGE IT TO A WOOD RAILING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS HERE. I WOULD THE SECOND FLOOR, I'D BE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH 42 INCHES UP THERE. SO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PROPOSED ELEVATION DRAWING. WE DON'T HAVE CALLOUTS OF DIMENSIONS OTHER THAN THAT 3-FOOT CALLOUT FOR THE THE FIRST FLOOR. ARE YOU THERE? IT'S ON, WHO AM I ON? I ALSO FOUND THE HEIGHT OF THE RAILING IN THE DECK SECTION. SHEET A-1, THEY SHOW THE EXISTING FRONT AND THE PROPOSED FRONT. AND ON THE PROPOSED FRONT, THEY CALL OUT THE HEIGHT OF THE, THE LOWER RAILING AT 3 FEET. AND IT LOOKS LIKE FROM THIS DRAWING THAT THE UPPER RAILING IS IT'S TALLER ANYWAY THAN 3 FEET. IT'S NOT CALLED OUT WITH THE NUMBER, BUT I THINK THAT COULD KIND OF GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A VISUAL. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. IF THE TOP IS A LITTLE BIT TALLER. MEMBER KOSACK, I MEASURED THE DISTANCE OF THE RAILING ON THE DECK SECTION THAT'S JUST ABOVE THE ELEVATIONS, AND THEY CALL OUT 3 FEET ON THE TOP AND 3 FEET ON THE BOTTOM. RIGHT. THAT WALL SECTION NEEDS SOMETHING.

YEAH. IT NEEDS SO IF THE RAILING NEEDS TO BE 42, 2 INCHES, LET'S NOT HAVE THE WALL SECTION SAY 36. THEY JUST NEED TO REVISIT THAT WALL SECTION AND FIX THOSE BITS.

THE OTHER ITEM IS THE, THE REPLACEMENT, REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT OF THE BRICK STAIRS, JUST AS ONE OF THE ITEMS WE DISCUSSED. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO SEE IT WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE THE COLUMNS AND REBUILD.

AND MAKE SURE THE COLUMNS ARE WRAPPED IN BRICK, SINCE THAT WASN'T CALLED OUT IN THE DETAILS. THE PIERS.

PIERS IN BRICK. AND THEN POTENTIALLY SALVAGE THE HANDRAIL AND MAKE IT ADA COMPLIANT. I DON'T I MEAN, NOT OR CAN'T I'M SORRY, YOU CAN'T SALVAGE IT AND MAKE IT ADA COMPLIANT. EITHER IT GETS SALVAGED OR NEW HANDRAIL IS ADA COMPLIANT. THEY'D BE BETTER OFF SALVAGING THAT RAILING THAN STICKING IN THE ADA AND YOU WERE SAYING IT HAS TO EXTEND 12 INCHES PAST THE LAND. SO DOES THAT PUT IT ACTUALLY IN THE CITY? THAT WOULD THAT YEAH, THAT WOULD BE SO THE WHOLE WALL HAS TO COME BACK BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT THE RAILING IN THE CITY. RIGHT. SO THEY CAN'T TALK TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, KIND OF TALK ABOUT THOSE KIND OF THINGS. IT WOULD BE A LIABILITY TO THE CITY, I BELIEVE, TO HAVE THE HANDRAIL, YOU KNOW, TOUCHING INTO THE SIDEWALK.

OF COURSE, OF COURSE. BUT THAT NOW PUSHES IT BACK ANOTHER FOOT.

IF I THE FRONT PORCH. IF I COULD ASK, I DON'T KNOW WHO TO ASK THIS QUESTION. IS, IS THERE ANY OTHER WORK PROPOSED MR. STURGIS, MAYBE THE QUESTION IS FOR YOU. IS THERE ANY OTHER WORK PROPOSED, LIKE, TO THE BACK STAIR? I KNOW THAT ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING, THAT BACK STAIR, TO MAKE THAT AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT IS IS THAT STAIR ADA COMPLIANT

[01:00:01]

AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS THE REAR STAIRS AND WHAT NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED.

AND I WE'RE GOING TO DO PROBABLY AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE FOR REPAIRS. SO JUST TO REPAIR IT. YEP. SO, BUT WE'RE NOT THERE. WE NEED TO STAY FOCUSED ON THE FRONT PORCH. I'M SURE THAT IT WOULD BE FINE IF WE'RE GOING TO PUT THE HANDRAIL UP TO MAKE IT 42 INCHES AND MATCH THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM.

SO THAT'S THE CASE.

AND I'M, I'M NOT SURE IF MY OFFICE MANAGER SENT THE RIGHT SET OF PLANS. I'M NOT GOING TO BLAME HER, BUT I KNOW THAT THE BRICK IS CALLED OUT SOMEWHERE BECAUSE I'VE HAD TO CALL THE ARCHITECT MULTIPLE TIMES AND DISCUSSED IT WITH HIM. SO OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK THE ONLY ANSWER TO THIS IS, IS JUST TO ADJUST IT FOR THE SIDEWALK. AND I'M SURE THAT THE OWNER PROBABLY WOULD BE AMENABLE TO USING BRICK.

FOR THE STAIRS. SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S A BIG CONCERN.

SO, DAVID, WHILE YOU'RE THERE, ONE OTHER QUESTION. WHAT ARE YOU PROPOSING TO USE THAT LOOKS LIKE THE VENTILATED, ENCLOSURES BETWEEN THE PIERS? THE LATTICEWORK? YEAH. OH, THAT'S JUST, WOOD. THAT'S JUST LOUVERED WOOD. LIKE, WILL THAT BE LIKE A LATTICE OR NO, ACTUAL LOUVERED WOOD. OKAY. SO IT'S GOING TO BE ON A FRAME AND JUST LOUVERED.

OKAY. SO THEY CAN GET AIR UNDER THERE, JUST CAN'T GET ANIMALS OR ANYTHING IN THERE.

YEAH. RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DON'T SEE ANY.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, DAVID.

ALL RIGHT. BOARD MEMBERS, WHO WHO WANTS TO PUT TOGETHER A OH, I'LL GO FOR IT. JUST LIKE THE FIRST ONE. YOU WANT TO PRELIM PASS IT BY AND THEN PEOPLE CAN CHIME IN AND THEN YOU CAN DO YOUR OFFICIAL ONE? SURE. SO, IF THIS IS THE PRELIM, I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2026-0015 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE THERE'S MORE THE DRAWING SUBMITTED TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT HAS MORE DETAILS IN THE WALL SECTION. THE BRICK STAIRS ARE REPLACED IN KIND.

IS THAT REPLACING KIND? THE STAIRS ARE REPLACED WITH BRICK? REPLACED WITH BRICK, YEAH. THE PIERS ARE WRAPPED THE CONCRETE PIERS ARE WRAPPED IN BRICK. THAT THE EXISTING HANDRAIL FOR THE FRONT STAIR IS SALVAGED, THAT THE GUARDRAIL FOR THE SECOND FLOOR IS CODE COMPLIANT AND 42 INCHES IN HEIGHT AND MEETS ALL THE OTHER CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR A GUARDRAIL.

WOODEN POST WRAPS. AND THAT THE POSTS ARE WRAPPED IN WOOD.

WITHOUT, WITHOUT THE CROWN AND BASE, RIGHT? JUST STRAIGHT OR WE CARE ABOUT THAT. I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP IT THAT WAY.

WITHOUT THE CROWN AND BASE. SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE EVERY OTHER REPLACEMENT POST IN TOWN. A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, IS THIS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OR FINAL APPROVAL? SO THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO ASK BOARD MEMBERS.

DO WE LIKE ON THE LAST ONE, DOES THIS KIND OF TIP THE BALANCE, OR ARE WE STILL IN A RANGE WHERE WE COULD ASK MIA TO REVIEW THESE BIDS COMING IN SO THAT WE CAN GET CUT THEM LOOSE TO GET GOING ON THIS.

SOME OF THESE ARE RELYING ON CODE. I MEAN, RIGHT, BOTH SETS OF RAILINGS WILL FOLLOW CODE.

THE ONLY THING I HEARD IS THAT IF THAT FIRST LANDING IS WAS IT 30 INCHES OR LOWER? THERE MAY NOT BE A RAILING AT ALL.

BUT THEY'RE PROPOSING THEIR INTENT IS TO HAVE A RAILING.

OKAY. I HEARD BOTH, AND I'M LIKE, IT'S JUST NOT REQUIRED TO BE 42. SO THE, THE RAILING ONE, IT'S ALMOST OUTSIDE OF OUR HANDS. IT MUST MEET CODE. YEAH. ON BOTH FLOORS.

ALL RIGHT, SHOULD WE DO THIS? WELL, I THINK, I THINK THE QUESTION THAT WE'RE DEBATING NOW IS, IS THIS SOMETHING YOU WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE REVIEWING, MIA? IF WE WERE TO, IF WE WERE TO APPROVE WITH STAFF REVIEWING THE REVISED ELEMENTS, OR DO WE NEED TO SEE IT AGAIN? SO THAT'S WHAT I'M KIND OF ASKING YOU GUYS. I THINK THAT'S UP TO ME. YEAH, I MEAN, NODDED YES. I CAN, I CAN REVIEW IT WITH THOSE CONDITIONS. OKAY.

DID WE WANT TO MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT PRESERVING THE WINDOW? I DON'T

[01:05:01]

OKAY. SO I DON'T I MEAN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, THEY'VE HEARD WHAT WE'VE SAID, THAT WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT GO AWAY. SO YEAH, IF THEY DISCOVER IT'S DEGRADED TO THE DEGREE THAT THEY HAVE TO GET UP THERE AND REPLACE ALL THAT STUFF, THEN I THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT THEN. THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK IF THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT ANYHOW. SO YEAH, I THINK THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO KNOW IN ADVANCE SO NOBODY'S SURPRISED? DO WE WANT THE UPPER SPANDRELS TO MATCH THE WIDTH OF THE RAILING, OR DO WE WANT TO KEEP THEM AT THE WIDER DISTANCE THAT THEY ARE NOW? THAT WOULD HELP HIM TO KNOW WHAT HE'S PUTTING UP THERE. I WOULD THINK THAT THEY SHOULD MATCH THE RAILING. THE RAILING. YEAH, IT'S VERY SUBTLE. YEAH. YEAH, I THINK IF THEY MATCH, IT'LL LOOK FINE.

OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2026- 0015 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE FINAL DRAWINGS SUBMITTED TO THE CITY HAVE A MORE DETAILED WALL SECTION. THE STAIRS, THE FRONT STAIR IS REPLACED WITH BRICK. THE CONCRETE PIERS ARE WRAPPED IN BRICK. THE EXISTING STAIR HANDRAIL IS SALVAGED AND REINSTALLED. THE GUARDRAIL MEETS CODE REQUIREMENTS, WHICH FOR THE SECOND FLOOR WOULD BE A 42-INCH HIGH GUARDRAIL AND THE CORRECT SPACING, THAT THE SPANDREL AT THE TOP OF THE SECOND FLOOR PORCH AND THE FIRST FLOOR PORCH SPACING MEETS THE WIDTH OF THE SECOND FLOOR GUARDRAIL. I THINK THAT'S EVERYTHING. AND I MOVE TO AND I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE HDC-2026-0015, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DOWNTOWN FERNANDINA BEACH DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. SECOND. THAT'S A MOTION AND A SECOND. SYLVIA, COULD YOU CALL THE VOTE? MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? YES.

MEMBER BYRNES? YES. MEMBER SALA? YES. MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES.

MEMBER KOSACK? YES. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES. GOOD. YOU'LL HAVE THIS DONE BY SATURDAY SO WE CAN HAVE A COFFEE ON THE FRONT PORCH? YOU CAN HAVE A COFFEE ON THE FRONT PORCH STILL, FOR NOW. HARD HAT. THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. LET'S MOVE ON

[5.2 HDC 2026-0016 - MIRANDA ARCHITECTS AGENT FOR 13 NORTH 3RD STREET LLC, 13 N. 3RD STREET]

YOU CAN SEE THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING SITS ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE LOT, AND THERE'S A DIRT DRIVE AND SOME OTHER CONCRETE, SOMEWHAT IMPROVED AREAS TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE LOT. JUST TO EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING DEFINITIONS OF STRUCTURES IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, ALL OF OUR RESOURCES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN A SURVEY THAT'S REQUIRED OF US AS OUR STATUS AS A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT. THIS IS CONDUCTED TO DATE THE CONSTRUCTION OF BUILDINGS, ALSO NOTING DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURAL STYLES AND FEATURES THAT ARE SIGNIFICANT TO THE STRUCTURES. AS LONG AS WELL AS THIS DOCUMENTATION, THERE'S A DETERMINATION MADE WHETHER A BUILDING IS CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AS WE KNOW, THE ENTIRE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT IS ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

OF HISTORIC PLACES, BUT SOME BUILDINGS HAVE MORE ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE THAN OTHERS. SO ALTHOUGH THE STRUCTURE IS 87 YEARS OLD, IT DOES NOT EXEMPLIFY ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS OR STYLES DESCRIBED IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.

THERE ARE MANY OTHER EXAMPLES OF THIS STRUCTURE CHARACTERISTICS DOWNTOWN, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT IT'S ONE-STORY STUCCO WITH FIXED STOREFRONT WINDOWS AND A SHINGLE ROOF. I KIND OF CHARACTERIZE THIS BUILDING OR SUMMARIZE IT AS A 1930S OR '40S INFILL. THANK YOU. IT'S NOT ONE OF THOSE KIND OF CORNER PIECES OR SHOWCASE PIECES IN OUR DISTRICT. SO I KIND OF BROKE DOWN THE CONTRIBUTING VERSUS NON-CONTRIBUTING DEFINITIONS.

IN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WE HAVE A DEFINITION

[01:10:01]

IT'S STAFF'S OPINION THAT IS NOT THE CASE. AND C, IT INDEPENDENTLY MEETS THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES CRITERIA FOR EVALUATION, WHICH AGAIN, STAFF DEEMED THAT TO BE NOT TRUE. A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, THIS IS KIND OF MY DEFINITION OF IT. WE DON'T IT'S NOT DEFINED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH THE BOARD MIGHT WANT TO LOOK INTO. A NON-CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY ARE STRUCTURES THAT WERE NOT CONSTRUCTED IN THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, DO NOT PROVIDE VALUABLE INFORMATION ABOUT THE TIME PERIOD, AND IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. A STRUCTURE COULD LOSE ITS CONTRIBUTING STATUS DUE TO EXCESSIVE ALTERATIONS LEADING TO LOSS OF INTEGRITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, A MODERN NEW BUILDING IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WOULD BE A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

IN ORDER TO EVALUATE AN APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION, THE HDC IS REQUIRED TO LOOK THROUGH LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SECTION 803.0301, WHICH OUTLINES CRITERIA FOR DEMOLITION. SO IN MY STAFF REPORT, I INCLUDED A REVIEW OF THIS CRITERIA, BUT I'LL ALSO BRIEFLY GO THROUGH THEM HERE FOR THE PUBLIC. SO THE FIRST CRITERIA IS WHETHER THE STRUCTURE OR SITE WOULD MEET NATIONAL, STATE, OR LOCAL CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION. ALTHOUGH THE STRUCTURE IS OLD ENOUGH TO BE CONSIDERED HISTORIC, IT DOES NOT HOLD SIGNIFICANCE FOR A HISTORIC EVENT, IMPORTANT PERSON IN HISTORY, OR EXCEPTIONAL ARCHITECTURE.

THOSE ARE THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH IT COULD BE LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES. CRITERIA 2, WHETHER THE STRUCTURE OR SITE IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE OR SITE TO LOCALLY DESIGNATED NATIONAL REGISTER NATIONAL REGISTERED HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THE STRUCTURE IS NON-CONTRIBUTING BUT DOES LIE WITHIN THE NATIONALLY REGISTERED FERNANDINA BEACH DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.

03, WHETHER THE LOSS OF THE STRUCTURE OR SITE WOULD DETERIORATE THE QUALITY OR CONTINUITY OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE AND SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. THE STRUCTURE, IF NOT REPLACED BY ANOTHER COMMERCIAL USE, WOULD DIMINISH THE QUALITY AND CONTINUITY OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. AS WE'LL SEE, IN OUR NEXT CASE, IT'S KIND OF THE SISTER CASE TO THIS ONE. THERE IS A CONCEPTUAL, PROJECT FOR THIS PROPERTY IF THIS APPLICATION IS APPROVED. WHETHER THE STRUCTURE OR SITE IS OF SUCH DESIGN, CRAFTSMANSHIP, OR MATERIAL THAT IT CANNOT BE REPRODUCED ONLY WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY OR EXPENSE. THIS STRUCTURE DOES NOT EXHIBIT SUCH FEATURES.

WHETHER THE STRUCTURE OR SITE IS ONE OF THE LAST REMAINING EXAMPLES OF ITS KIND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS STRUCTURE WAS BUILT IN 1939, WHICH DOES NOT FALL IN THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE. THE ARCHITECTURE OR SIMILAR STYLE IS EXHIBITED THROUGH SEVERAL OTHER ONE-STORY INFILL BUILDINGS ALONG CENTER STREET AND SOUTH 8TH STREET TO SUPPORT COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES. WHETHER THE REMOVAL OF THE STRUCTURE OR SITE WOULD DESTROY THE HISTORIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN STRUCTURE AND OPEN SPACE, STAFF FINDS THAT THE STRUCTURE SHOULD BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER STRUCTURE TO MAINTAIN COHESIVENESS OF THE STREETSCAPE. WHETHER RETENTION OF THE STRUCTURE OR SITE PROMOTES THE GENERAL WELFARE OF THE CITY BY PROVIDING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE STUDY OF LOCAL HISTORY, ARCHITECTURE, AND DESIGN, OR BY DEVELOPING AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPORTANCE AND VALUE OF A PARTICULAR CULTURAL HERITAGE.

THIS STRUCTURE DOES NOT CURRENTLY SERVE THIS FUNCTION FOR OUR COMMUNITY. WHETHER THE APPLICANT HAS MADE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO PURSUE ALTERNATIVES TO DEMOLITION. THE APPLICANT HAS STATED THAT THE STRUCTURE IS IN DISREPAIR. WHETHER THE APPLICANT WILL BE DENIED A REASONABLE RETURN ON HIS OR HER INVESTMENT. IF THE STRUCTURE REMAINS, THE APPLICANT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THE THE SPACE IN THE DESIRED WAY. WHETHER THERE IS ECONOMIC HARDSHIP FOR THE APPLICANT DEMONSTRATED BY THE REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 803.06. THE APPLICANT HAS NOT DEMONSTRATED ECONOMIC HARDSHIP BASED ON THESE REQUIREMENTS.

AND FINALLY, WHETHER CODE ENFORCEMENT OR APPEALS BOARD HAS RECOMMENDED DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE, AND CODE ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT HAVE OR HAS NOT RECEIVED ANY SUBMISSIONS ON THIS PROPERTY.

AND JUST TO KIND OF SUMMARIZE THE CRITERIA FOR DEMOLITION, THESE ARE JUST ITEMS TO BE CONSIDERED. IT'S NOT LIKE A VARIANCE WHERE EVERYTHING HAS TO BE ANSWERED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. THESE ARE JUST CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE BOARD. BASED ON ALL THAT INFORMATION, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF HGC 2026-0016, AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.

THANK YOU, MIA. I FOUND YOUR ANALYSIS VERY THOROUGH, AND IT ANSWERED A LOT OF QUESTIONS I HAD REALLY ABOUT ANY TIME SOMETHING IS SLATED FOR FOR DEMOLITION IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, MY FIRST QUESTION IS, IS IT CONTRIBUTING? THIS IS NOT. LIKE FOR THE OLAH BUILDING, THAT'S A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE,

[01:15:01]

BUT I FOUND YOUR ANALYSIS VERY COMPELLING, SO THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR US.

AND THE ONLY THING I DID NOTICE THAT WAS KIND OF ARCHITECTURALLY INTERESTING WAS THE LUMINETTES, OR THE LITTLE CURVED HALF-MOONS ON THE TOP.

BUT THOSE ARE THEY'RE BACKED BY SHINGLES, AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S WOOD. I WOULD ASK THE APPLICANT TO MAYBE SPEAK TO THAT, BUT THAT WAS THE ONLY THING I KIND OF FOUND ARCHITECTURALLY INTRIGUING ABOUT THE STRUCTURE. OKAY.

THANK YOU. BOARD MEMBERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MIA? OKAY. DOES THE APPLICANT WANT TO COME UP? JOSE MIRANDA WITH MIRANDA ARCHITECTS, 309.5 CENTER STREET. YES, NON-CONTRIBUTING 1939 BUILDING.

THE LUNETTES, AS THEY'RE DESCRIBED, THOSE HALF-MOON DECORATIVE ITEMS, ARE STUCCO. THERE'S NO WAY TO SALVAGE THOSE. PLUS, IF IT'S NOT CONTRIBUTING, THERE'S REALLY NOT, IN MY OPINION, NOT MUCH POINT TO THAT. IT DOESN'T REALLY MATCH THE PROPOSED DESIGN THAT WE'VE GOT FOR THE MARKET THAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR ITS REPLACEMENT. WE DID DO RESEARCH, OBVIOUSLY, OVER THE SANBORN MAPS TO SEE WHAT BUILDINGS WERE ON THIS SITE. BEEN A WHOLE VARIETY OF A TOBACCONIST SHOP, EVEN A CHINESE LAUNDRY. AND ACTUALLY, THIS WAS A SUPERFUND SITE WHEN IT WAS A LAUNDROMAT THAT IT WAS CLEANED UP. SO NOW WE'RE HOPEFULLY BRINGING IT BACK INTO THE FOLD WITH MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE PIECE OF PROPERTY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH THE NEW DESIGN. SO I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. WAS THIS BUILDING THE LAUNDRY? THE LAUNDROMAT AT ONE TIME. IT WASN'T THE CHINESE LAUNDRY, WHICH WHICH WAS FROM THE TURN OF THE CENTURY. YEAH, THERE WAS DIFFERENT BUILDINGS, DIFFERENT SOME WERE WOOD-FRAMED. IT'S JUST, IT'S GOT A LONG HISTORY. THERE WAS NEVER ANY SIGNIFICANT BUILDING ON THAT SITE UNTIL THIS 1939 BUILDING, AND IT WAS DONE AS AN INFILL STOREFRONT PIECE. JOSE, WHAT'S THE MATERIAL POTENTIALLY WHAT'S THE MATERIAL PROPOSED FOR THE INFILL IN BETWEEN EACH ONE OF THE LITTLE SHOPS FOR I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEMOLITION FIRST, RIGHT? YEP, THERE ARE 2 SEPARATE CASES. OH, SORRY.

OKAY, THAT'S THE NEXT PIECE.

NEVER MIND. ALL RIGHT, I WILL ASK ONE QUESTION, JOSE.

CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE CONDITION OF THE BUILDING? IT'S AN I MEAN, IT'S AN 80-PLUS-YEAR-OLD BUILDING, SO IT, IT DOESN'T SERVE I MEAN, IT'S CURRENTLY OBVIOUSLY MOTHER TERESA'S. THERE'S A PLAN TO RELOCATE NANA TERESA'S RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO WHAT IS CURRENTLY THE BOBA'S MEDITERRANEAN PLACE. SO IT HAS OUTLIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE. THE BACK IS IN ROUGH SHAPE. THERE'S SOME AREAS WHERE THE FASCIA HAS DETERIORATED, BUT WE DIDN'T DO ANY SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS BECAUSE IT WAS NON-CONTRIBUTING, SO WE DIDN'T SPEND THAT EFFORT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING MY ONLY QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE TIMELINE BETWEEN THE DEMO AND THEN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECT, WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECT ITSELF? WELL, THE HOPE IS ONCE WE GET CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WE'LL HAVE A TIMELINE FOR GETTING CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS AND BEING BACK FOR FINAL APPROVAL. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIMELINE IS BETWEEN HOW LONG OUR APPROVAL WOULD BE FOR, BUT I WOULD TALK TO, TO MY CLIENT TO SEE WHEN HE'S READY TO PROCEED RIGHT. THE COA, IF GRANTED FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT, WOULD BE A YEAR WITH 2 AVAILABLE 6-MONTH EXTENSIONS.

WHEN YOU DEMO THE BUILDING, WILL YOU ALSO BE DEMOING THAT CEMENT PAD? YES, EVERYTHING.

YEAH, WE HAVE TO CLEAR ALL OF THAT OUT. WE ALSO WILL BE DEALING WITH WE'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH TRC. WE'LL BE DEALING WITH TREE MITIGATION, STORMWATER, ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO AS A WE'RE REDEVELOPING THE SITE. OKAY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, WE'LL OPEN UP FOR THE PUBLIC IF ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC WISHES TO COME UP AND SPEAK ABOUT THE DEMOLITION PART OF THIS PROJECT. SEEING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

THAT BRINGS US TO BOARD DISCUSSION. WHAT ARE YOUR GUYS' FEELING ON THIS? DOES ANYBODY I WAS GOING TO SAY ALMOST EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID AS FAR AS DEMOLITION. AND WE TALK FREQUENTLY ABOUT BUILDINGS THAT MAY NOT BE IN THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE BUT ARE STILL IMPORTANT TO THE FABRIC. WHAT I THINK IN

[01:20:01]

AGREED. AND, FOR ME, THE, THE FACT THAT THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT IS SOMETHING THAT STILL FITS THE SAME KIND OF CHARACTER IS SIGNIFICANT.

BUT ANY MORE BOARD DISCUSSION, OR DOES SOMEBODY WANT TO I HAVE ONE QUESTION. CAN YOU BLOW THAT UP A LITTLE BIT? I'M JUST IS THE PROPOSED NO, NO, THE ONE THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE SKY SHOT. OH, THE SURVEY? THE AERIAL VIEW. THE AERIAL VIEW.

IS THIS ONE? IS BABA'S IN LOT 11? BABA'S IS SO IS THE WHOLE THING COMING DOWN OR JUST THE PART THAT'S IN THE RED? JUST NUMBER 13, WHICH IS THE BUILDING. OKAY, SO BABA'S IS GOING TO BE LEFT FREESTANDING. AND THERE'S A SEPARATION BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS. RIGHT.

OKAY. JUST CLARIFICATION IN MY HEAD. THAT WAS JUST TO CLARIFY. I GUESS STILL GOOD.

YEAH. SOMEONE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION? I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC-2026-0016 WITHOUT CONDITIONS. I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD: THAT CASE 2026-0016 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL SECOND.

GREAT, THAT'S A MOTION AND A SECOND. SYLVIE, COULD YOU CALL THE VOTE? MEMBER BYRNES? YES.

MEMBER SALA? YES. MEMBER KOSACK? YES. MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES.

MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? YES. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES. GREAT, NOW WE GET TO WE GET TO MOVE ON

[5.3 HDC 2026-0017 - MIRANDA ARCHITECTS, AGENT FOR 13 NORTH 3RD STREET LLC, 13 N. 3RD STREET]

MIA, COULD YOU PRESENT THAT? YEAH, THIS IS THE SISTER APPLICATION FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 13 NORTH 3RD STREET. NOW THAT THE DEMOLITION HAS REQUIRED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL, WE CONSIDER CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FOR THE NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW COMMERCIAL RETAIL BUILDING WITH UP TO 9 NEW RETAIL BUILDINGS SURROUNDING THE REAR COURTYARD. THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, AND THE THE APPLICANT WAS ADVISED TO COME FOR CONCEPTUAL TO BEGIN WITH TO GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM THE BOARD BEFORE THEY APPLY FOR FINAL. THE APPLICANT IS ALSO MOVING THROUGH THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE.

THEY HAVE ATTENDED A FIRST STEP MEETING AND THEY WERE ADVISED AT FIRST STEP THAT THEY WILL NEED A COA FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO KIND OF RUNNING BOTH OF THOSE TRACKS CONCURRENTLY. TRC WILL REVIEW BE REVIEWING MOST OF THE SITE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS. SO AS JOSE MENTIONED, TREES, STORMWATER, WITH OUR STREETS DEPARTMENT, WITH UTILITIES, FIRE, BUILDING, ALL OUR TECHNICAL DEPARTMENTS FOR DEVELOPMENT, WHILE HDC WILL BE REVIEWING THE VERTICAL ELEMENT OF THIS PROJECT. THIS IS THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN.

THIS IS PROPOSED TO BE THE MIDDLE, THE MAIN BUILDING, THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE TO BE LIKE A GENERAL STORE THAT HOUSES THE BATHROOMS FOR THE FACILITY, AND THEN 2 ARBORS ON EITHER SIDE THAT INVITE PEDESTRIANS IN FROM THE SIDEWALK TO VISIT DIFFERENT SMALLER BUSINESSES AROUND THE COURTYARD. THIS IS THE PROPOSED CONTEXT ELEVATION ON THE TOP. SO YOU CAN SEE THE NEW CONSTRUCTION IS HERE WITH THE GABLE ROOF AND THE BOARD AND BATTEN.

ON THE RIGHT IS THE RESTAURANT AT 21 NORTH 3RD STREET, AND ON THE LEFT IS ANOTHER COMMERCIAL BUILDING AT 11 NORTH 3RD STREET, AND THEN ON THE BOTTOM IS A RENDERING OF HOW THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD LOOK LOOKING NORTHWEST.

ON THIS PAGE, I SHARED SOME ELEVATIONS OF THE LITTLE SHOPS AND BUSINESS SPACES THAT WOULD SURROUND THE COURTYARD. STAFF FINDS THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE AND CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES.

TO RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU, MIA. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MIA? SEEING NONE,

[01:25:02]

THE MAIN BUILDING WILL BE A CANDY STORE. THAT'LL BE THE MAIN GENERAL STORE KIND OF CONCEPT. IT'S GOT THE GABLE END STRUCTURE AND A CANOPY THAT GOES OVER THE, OVER THE SIDEWALK. THEN YOU'VE GOT THE 2 ENTRY ARBORS THAT LEAD YOU INTO KIND OF A BACK COURTYARD AREA. AND THEN WE'VE GOT THE INDIVIDUAL SHOPS AROUND THE PERIMETER.

THE SHOPS ARE INTENDED TO BE LIKE INCUBATORS FOR SMALLER BUSINESSES.

BUSINESSES THAT CAN'T AFFORD CENTER STREET RATES FOR RENTALS IN HISTORIC BUILDINGS. SO THEY'RE SMALL ENOUGH THAT THEY CAN BE DOUBLED UP, OR YOU CAN GRAB 2 OF THEM TO CREATE A LARGER FOOTPRINT.

SO THEY RANGE FROM 120 SQUARE FEET TO 288. IN BETWEEN EACH OF THE BUILDINGS IS A FENCED ENCLOSURE FOR WHERE ALL OUR HVAC AND TRASH WILL BE, BECAUSE THIS CAN BE A ROLL-OFF SITUATION. THERE'S NO ROOM ON SITE FOR DUMPSTER. OKAY.

TYPICAL TO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. WE'VE LEFT QUITE A BIT OF LANDSCAPE IN PLACE AROUND THE PERIMETER AND THE REAR COURTYARD AREA.

SO WE STILL DEAL WITH TREE MITIGATION, WHICH WE HAVE SOME ROOM TO DO THAT. ONE OF THE FEATURES THAT WE DESIGNED IN THIS, BECAUSE WE ARE ABUTTING A FLOOD ZONE AREA, WHAT WE DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO IS HAVING TO FLOODPROOF 10 INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS.

SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS A PERIMETER LOW WALL THAT CREATES OUR BARRIER, AND THEN WE CAN DO OUR FLOODGATES AT THE 2 ARBOR LOCATIONS AND THE MAIN ENTRY TO THE GENERAL STORE. SO THAT HELPS US CONTROL THE WHOLE STORMWATER OR FLOODWATER SITUATION WITHOUT HAVING TO GET INTO THE MITIGATION THAT YOU HAVE TO DO FOR DRY FLOODPROOFING FOR THOSE INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS.

SO HERE, AT THIS POINT, IT'S JUST CONCEPTUAL.

ONCE WE GET CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, IF WE DO, THEN WE PROCEED WITH MORE MUCH MORE DETAIL.

AND WE STILL HAVE TO DO SITE ENGINEERING, STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING, AND ALL THE DETAILS THAT WOULD COME BACK TO YOU FOR REVIEW.

GREAT, THANK YOU. LIKE, SOME THINGS THAT I THINK ARE VERY EFFECTIVE FIRST OF ALL, THE LITTLE LOW WALL. WE, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S A RESOURCE THAT WE HAVE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT'S KIND OF DISAPPEARING. YOU SEE ALL THESE PROJECTS AND THEY, THEY TAKE OUT THOSE LITTLE, THE LITTLE WALLS THAT KIND OF FACE THE STREET AND STUFF.

SO THIS WILL BE NEAT TO HAVE THAT COME IN AND KIND OF HEARKEN BACK TO SOME OF THOSE DETAILS WE SEE AROUND TOWN IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THEN I REALLY LIKE HAVING THAT CANOPY ON THE FRONT. YOU KNOW, NANA'S RIGHT NOW HAS 2 LITTLE TINY ONES, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT A LOT OF OUR OLD PHOTOGRAPHS LOOKING DOWN CENTER STREET, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE SHOP HAD A CANOPY.

YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S RAINING OR IT'S REALLY SUNNY, PEOPLE CAN COME LOOK IN THEIR WINDOWS AND EYE SHOP AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER ELEMENT THAT KIND OF TIES THIS BACK IN TO SOME OF THE HISTORIC THINGS THAT WE USED TO SEE. IT'S NICE TO BRING IT BACK. BOARD MEMBERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY? JUST ONE. THE IMAGE RIGHT BEHIND YOU, THE LOW WALL FOR FLOODING, WOULD IT ACTUALLY BE IN FRONT OF THE BLUE BUILDING ALSO? YEAH. IN THAT CASE, IT'S ACTUALLY THE FOUNDATION WALL FOR THE BUILDING. SO WHAT IT WILL BECOME, A PERIMETER WALL, AND THEN THE FOUNDATION WALL FOR THAT BUILDING IS SET BACK IN. OKAY, I SEE. OKAY, SO THE BUSHES ARE IN FRONT OF THE FLOOD WALL? YEAH, WE LEFT A LITTLE LANDSCAPE BUFFER IN THE FRONT SO THAT THE GENERAL STORE IS THE PROMINENT ONE AND THE OTHER ONES ARE KIND OF THE LITTLE SISTER OR THE FLOCK, SO TO SPEAK, THAT'S KIND OF SET BACK FROM THE STREET. DRY-PROOF YOUR FLOODPROOF GATE. THAT'S RIGHT.

THEN WE WOULD, RIGHT THERE AT THAT ARBOR ENTRANCE, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE FLOOD BARRIER AS OUR AT THOSE 2 ENTRY POINTS PLUS THE GENERAL STORE ENTRY AND NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERY INDIVIDUAL BUILDING WITH DRY FLOODPROOFING, WHICH IS VERY EXPENSIVE. ARE ALL THE BUILDINGS AIR-CONDITIONED? THEY PLAN TO BE. PROBABLY WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH MINI SPLITS TO BE ABLE TO IT'S SUCH A SMALL SPACE. WE WANT TO KEEP THEM AS OPEN AS POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, VAULTED CEILINGS, LET SEE THE STRUCTURE FROM THE INSIDE. SO THEY'RE CREATING MUCH MORE VOLUME BECAUSE THEY'RE SUCH A SMALL FOOTPRINT. I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHERE THIS QUESTION GOES. JUST DEALING WITH SO MANY RESIDENTIAL ISSUES AND ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, AND IS THIS CONSIDERED A PRIMARY AND A BUNCH OF ACCESSORY BUILDINGS? IS THE CODE DIFFERENT? DO WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT? IT'S A

[01:30:02]

THAT'S WHAT I'M CURIOUS, IS, IS THERE SOMETHING WE'RE MISSING HERE? YEAH, FOR COMMERCIAL, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PRIMARY AND ACCESSORY. THAT'S STRICTLY IN THE LANGUAGE OF RESIDENTIAL. OKAY, SO IN THIS CASE, WE COULD HAVE MULTIPLE BUILDINGS OR ONE GIANT BUILDING THAT FILLS THE ENTIRE SITE. IN THIS CASE, WE DECIDED TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE MOTHER HEN AND ITS CHICKS AROUND THE I LOVE THE CONCEPT.

YEAH. I LOVE THE IDEA OF LIKE THE GENERAL STORE AND THEN THE LITTLE, THE OUTBUILDINGS AND, AND THE FEEL OF THAT. I LOVE THE WAY, YOU'RE KEEPING IT OPEN SO THE VIEW CARTERS, YOU CAN SEE THROUGH, AND IT KIND OF PICKS UP IN BETWEEN DUCK PINS AND CARIBOU WHERE YOU, YOU CAN LOOK BACK.

YEAH. AND IT'S REALLY NICE TO HAVE THAT. NOW, CONVERSELY, WHAT WE'RE COMING FROM IS THAT VERY ALMOST MODERN 1930S STRUCTURE. AND ALL THOSE BUILDINGS, IT SEEMS LIKE I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON 2ND STREET, BUT ALL THOSE BUILDINGS, IT WAS DEVELOPED RIGHT FROM, FROM MELDA'S BUILDING ON, 1930 TO 1940. SO THEY ALL KIND OF HAVE THAT FLAT PARAPET FRONT, AND THEY'RE VERY FLAT. AND IT CAME AFTER LIKE, WHEN WE EVEN LOOK AT THE DRAWING, WE'VE GOT BAMBA'S RIGHT NEXT DOOR. IT HAS A REALLY BOXED RECTILINEAR CORNICE. AND THEN WHEN YOU GO OVER TO CARIBOU, IT'S GOT A CRENELLATED CORNICE. AND THEN DUCKPENS HAS A YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GONNA CALL THAT A GABLE, BUT IT'S FLAT. RIGHT.

SO MY ONLY FEELING IS, LIKE, I LOVE THIS IDEA IN ISOLATION. I DON'T I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH IT IN THIS SETTING. AND I DON'T KNOW, AND I WAS TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT DESIGNING IT, BUT, BUT I'M JUST PUTTING THIS FOR YOU. IF, IF THERE'S MAYBE A WAY THAT THE, THE OUT-FACING PART, LIKE ALMOST WHAT YOU DID AT MCJUNKIN, WHERE YOU HAVE THAT FRONT PIECE. THAT THEN YOU ENTER INTO LIKE ALMOST LIKE A FACADE, LIKE A THEATER SETTING, SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT FLATTER.

YEAH, LET ME ADDRESS THAT BECAUSE WE DID, WE DID STUDY THAT KIND OF OPTION. THE DIFFICULTY WE HAD WITH THAT IS, ESPECIALLY ON THIS PARTICULAR BLOCK, I MEAN, CENTER STREET, IT'S PRETTY, PRETTY YOU CAN, YOU CAN TELL THE CONTEXT. IT IS DEFINITELY FLAT STOREFRONT CANOPIES, 2 OR 3 STORY.

ON THE SIDE STREETS, IT'S A COMMERCIAL NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL SHAPES AND FORMS. SO WE PLAYED AROUND WITH IT, AND BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO EVOKE THE IDEA OF KIND OF A TRADITIONAL GENERAL STORE, WE ALWAYS CAME BACK TO THAT GABLE-END BRACKETED BOARD AND BATTEN KIND OF A LOOK. BUT WE MADE IT A LITTLE MORE CONTEMPORARY BY ADDING THAT CANOPY THAT'S WITH THE TIE-BACK ROPE.

BECAUSE THAT HAS MORE OF THAT, THAT MODERN INTERNATIONAL FEEL TO IT. SO I MEAN, JUST AS A DESIGNER, WHAT I WOULD THROW OUT THERE IS, DO YOU WANT TO MAYBE INCREASE THE TABBY HEIGHT OR HAVE MORE TABBY ON IT, ONE. AND THEN TWO, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE LIKE A LITTLE BIT LESS OF A BAHAMIAN KEY WEST FEEL IN COLORS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMETHING MORE SATURATED OR SOMETHING. WELL, WE STUDIED A COUPLE OF COLOR SCHEMES. I THINK THE CLIENT REALLY WANTED TO HAVE THAT MORE CASUAL LOOK BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF THE FEEL, ESPECIALLY WITH THE OUTER BUILDINGS. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE MAIN BUILDING AS THE RIGHT NOW IS KIND OF DICTATED AS A PINK COLOR.

THAT MAY NOT BE THE ACTUAL COLOR. THIS IS JUST, YOU KNOW, CONCEPT. BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE IT HOMOGENEOUS WHERE ALL EACH ONE OF THE BUILDINGS LOOKED THE SAME, LIKE A VANILLA COOKIE CUTTER.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SO THIS IS KIND OF A COMPROMISE, SO TO SPEAK, AND IT I THINK IT EVOKES A LITTLE MORE CASUAL FLAVOR FOR THAT PORTION OF, OF 3RD STREET. IT'S DIFFERENT THAN CENTER, AND THAT'S WHAT WE CAME BACK TO EVERY TIME WE STARTED DOING THE DESIGN. YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE DO A FLAT PARAPET OR DECORATIVE PARAPET LIKE MCJUNKIN? BUT MCJUNKIN IS A UNIQUE CASE BECAUSE THAT FACADE WAS ALREADY IN PLACE, AND SO WE HAD SOMETHING TO GO OFF OF. YEAH. HERE, BECAUSE WE'VE DEMOLISHED THE 1939 BUILDING THAT HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, I DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE MY CUES FROM THAT. SO WE DECIDED JUST TO PLAY AROUND A LITTLE MORE WITH IT. BUT, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENTS.

WE'LL SEE IF WE NEED TO INCREASE MORE TABBY TO GIVE YOU THE DIFFERENT FEEL.

BUT I THINK THE TABBY WALL TYING INTO THE PERIMETER WALL AND BECOMING ALSO THE FOUNDATION WALL FOR SOME OF THOSE BUILDINGS IS THE WAY TO TIE THE WHOLE COMPLEX TOGETHER. AND THAT HELPS TIE IN SOME OF THE SURROUNDING STUCCO AND THEN THE ALACHUA BUILDING, WHICH IS TABBY.

YEAH, THAT'S THAT WAS MY ONLY THOUGHT. IT JUST SEEMED A LITTLE BIT TOO KIND OF FARMY, KEY WESTY IN THERE THEN.

YEAH, I THINK LIKE NANA'S RIGHT NOW ONLY FILLS A SMALL PORTION OF THE WHOLE FRONTAGE THERE.

YEAH. AND IF YOU WERE TO

[01:35:01]

I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH TAMMY, THE COLOR IS A LITTLE BIT ROUGH, BUT A CANDY STORE PROBABLY SHOULD BE PINK, YOU KNOW, SO I CAN GET MY COTTON CANDY DOWN THERE.

BUT MY ONLY AND MY ONLY, I GUESS I HAVE 2 QUESTIONS.

THE, ARE THE, ARE THE ADJACENT IS LIKE, IS BABA'S MEDITERRANEAN AND TIMOTEE'S AND CAFE CARIBOU AND, AND DUFFIN'S, ARE THEY ALL HISTORIC BUILD? I JUST DON'T ARE THOSE HISTORIC BUILDINGS OR ARE THOSE NEW? SO NO, BABA'S DEFINITELY IS NOT NON-CONTRIBUTING. BUT THEY'RE ALL NON-CONTRIBUTING. THEY'RE ALL, THEY'RE NON-CONTRIBUTING.

BABA'S WAS 1935, TIMOTEE'S 1946, CARIBOU 19 '38, I THINK. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

THEY'RE ALL THE SAME VINTAGES.

YEAH. YEAH. AS TAMMY POINTED OUT. THAT'S, THAT'S HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND THAT. I THINK THE SCALE IS TOTALLY APPROPRIATE.

MY ONLY OTHER QUESTION IS, WHAT'S THE MATERIAL FOR THE GARBAGE? YEAH, WE WANT TO COME UP WITH A NICE FENCE DETAIL.

YES. YEAH. WE'LL BRING THAT TO YOU AS WE GET MORE DETAILS.

AGREED. IT'S AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT. I THINK IT'S I THINK SO. IT'S A GREAT IDEA. GREAT. I THINK I HEARD YOU SAY PLEASE DON'T DO VINYL FENCE, RIGHT? I DID. I DID. PLEASE DON'T DO ANY VINYL FENCE.

YEAH, YEAH, WHITE. DULY NOTED.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR JOSE? NO, I THINK MY COMMENTS ARE THE SAME. YOU KNOW, I WAS ALSO WORRIED ABOUT THE COLORS, BUT THE BUILDINGS ARE SO DIFFERENT AND SO FUN. I MEAN, I JUST THOUGHT I LOVE THE CONCEPT. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE COLORS ARE THE BIGGEST THING I WOULD HARP ON NOW. BUT, YOU KNOW, BE IT THAT THE THERE'S SO MUCH MATERIAL GOING ON TOO, WITH THE SHAKES AND THE GABLES, THE SIDING, THE CUPOLA. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO ADD A LOT OF CHARM TO THE AREA. I DON'T I THINK THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA FIXATE ON, NOT SO MUCH THE COLOR. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, JOSE. LET'S OPEN THIS UP FOR PUBLIC HEARING IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO SPEAK TOWARDS THIS PROJECT.

SEEING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO BOARD DISCUSSION. I THINK I HEAR A MOTION SOMEWHERE.

YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.

OKAY, I MOVE TO APPROVE HDCC CASE NUMBER 2026-0017 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.

CONCEPTUALLY. CONCEPTUALLY. I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2026-0017. I DON'T KNOW, WHERE AM I ADDING THE CONCEPTUAL WORD? CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, I WOULD JUST SAY. OH, GOT IT.

OKAY. OR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. I MOVE TO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FOR HDC CASE NUMBER 2026-0017 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS, FACTS, AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF RECORD, THAT HDC CASE 2026-0017 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, PLAN DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND. SYLVIE, PLEASE CALL THE VOTE. MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? YES. MEMBER BYRNES? YES. MEMBER KOSACK? YES.

MEMBER SALA? YES. MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES.

VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES. ALL RIGHT, THANKS GUYS. YEAH, ALL

[5.4 HDC 2026-0018 - MIGUEL & ALYSON AMEIGEIRAS, 404 BROOME STREET]

THE WAY THAT THIS CASE WHAT KIND OF CAME TO LIGHT IS THERE WAS WORK OCCURRING ON THIS PROPERTY WITHOUT A COA AND WITHOUT A

[01:40:02]

ON OUR COA MATRIX, AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE OUR LIST OF CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING AND THEN WHICH CHANGES TO THE PROPERTY WOULD HAVE TO BE HEARD BY THE BOARD AND WHICH CAN BE APPROVED ON A STAFF LEVEL.

UNFORTUNATELY, PORCH POSTS ARE NOT INCLUDED ON THE MATRIX. SO THIS IS ALSO A DISCUSSION I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE WITH THE BOARD CONCURRENTLY WITH THIS CASE. WHERE SHOULD THOSE FALL ON THE MATRIX JUST TO GIVE US CLEAR DIRECTION? BUT SINCE THEY WERE NOT ON THE MATRIX, THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS ASKED TO MAKE AN APPLICATION FOR AFTER-THE-FACT APPROVAL AND COME TO THE BOARD TO EXPLAIN THE CHANGES. OKAY.

AND KIND OF GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE NEW POST VERSUS WHAT WAS EXISTING. THESE WERE THE MATERIALS, SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDED. THEY PROVIDED A DRAWING OF THE FRONT ELEVATION AFTER THE WORK WAS COMPLETED.

THE TOP PICTURE ON THIS SLIDE IS THE ELEVATION ON FACING BROOME STREET BEFORE THE WORK WAS COMPLETED, AND ON THE BOTTOM IS AFTER THE WORK IS SO THEY WENT FROM KIND OF SKINNIER POSTS WITH LOTS OF CURVES IN THEM TO SQUARE, A LITTLE BIT THICKER POSTS NOW, TODAY. THESE WERE SOME MORE PICTURES THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDED. ON THE LEFT, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE POST LOOKS LIKE THEY HAD SOME REPAIRS OR ALTERATIONS TO THEM OVER TIME. AND THEN ON THE RIGHT IS A PICTURE AFTER THE WORK WAS COMPLETED.

THEY UTILIZED THE EXISTING RAIL AND PUT THEM IN WITH THE NEW POSTS. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDED OF SOME OTHER HOUSES THAT EMULATE THAT FLORIDA CRACKER STYLE THAT HAVE THAT THE SIMPLE POSTS ON THE FRONT PORCH. THEY ALSO INCLUDED A LOT OF HISTORICAL INFORMATION THAT THEY ACQUIRED FROM THE MUSEUM AND THROUGH RESEARCH TO EXPLAIN THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THEIR HOME AND JUSTIFIED THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE SQUARE POST. BASED ON ALL OF THIS INFORMATION AND THE FACT THAT IT IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, WHICH WE ALL JUST DISCUSSED, STAFF CAN RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE AFTER-THE-FACT CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

OKAY, THANK YOU, MIA. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MIA? HEARING NONE, IS THE APPLICANT HERE AND DO THEY WISH TO SPEAK? HELLO.

PLEASE COME UP, GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

YEAH, IF YOU CAN COME UP TO THE PODIGIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. AND MY NAME IS MIGUEL AMAGERIS. PERFECT RECAP OF WHAT WENT DOWN. WE HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT WE WERE REPLACING POST IN KIND, MEANING ONE FOR ONE, SINCE WHAT WAS THERE WAS DETERIORATING AND ROTTING, NON-CONTRIBUTING HOUSE, AND WE TRIED TO KEEP IT IN KEEPING WITH THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND WE SAW NUMEROUS EXAMPLES, FIGURED IT'D BE OKAY. THE NEXT MORNING, MIA CAME OUT AND SAID, HEY, YOU PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE REQUESTED THIS. SO HERE'S WHERE WE'RE AT NOW, COMING AFTER THE FACT TO CHANGE THE POSTS ON THE HOUSE. AND WE DID, AS SHE POINTED OUT, THE, I DON'T KNOW, 10-FOOT SEGMENTS OR WHATEVER THEY ARE OF RAILING. WE KEPT THOSE PAINTED IT EXACTLY THE SAME NAVAJO WHITE. LUCKILY, THE PREVIOUS OWNER LEFT GREAT COLOR SAMPLES OF THE WHOLE THING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE FUTURE OF THIS HOUSE IS WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IT THE SAME COLOR.

WE'RE GOING TO REPAINT IT THE SAME COLOR, THE NAVAJO WHITE. WE MAY REQUEST AN EXCEPTION FOR THE DECKING. WE MIGHT PAINT IT GRAY, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S ONLY THAT'S WHAT THE FUTURE OF THE HOUSE HOLDS. OKAY.

AND, ALLISON, MY WIFE, YOU KNOW, SHE'S THE TRAINED DRAFTSMAN, SO SHE DID ALL THE WORK ON THE HOUSE. AND WE CAN GO INTO THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE BIG REASON THIS HOUSE IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING HOUSE IS WAS IT '94? IT HAS MANY ALTERATIONS, AND IT WAS PURCHASED BY THE THAMS, WHICH I'M SURE YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH. IN '94, THEY ADDED ABOUT 500 AND SOMETHING SQUARE FEET TO THE FRONTAGE. I MEAN, ABOUT IT WENT FROM 28 FEET TO 44 FEET. AND THEN IN 2003, THEY ADDED A REAR FAMILY ROOM. SO IT WENT FROM WHAT WAS, I THINK, 01,050 SQUARE FEET TO, I THINK, 17 NO, 19 AND SOME CHANGE. AND THEN THERE'S THE CARRIAGE HOUSE. SO IT'S BEEN THROUGH MANY ITERATIONS IN THE YEARS. THERE IS NO RECORD OF ITS ORIGINAL STATUS. WE DID GO SEARCHING. I CALLED THE CITY, THE COUNTY CLERK. THERE IS NO RECORD. HOWEVER, HISTORICALLY, IT FALLS UNDER SOMETHING CALLED A FLORIDA CRACKER HOUSE. THIS IS SIMPLE CONSTRUCTION. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A MILL WORKER, MAYBE A FISHERMAN. THE ROOF ON THE INSIDE IS MADE

[01:45:03]

SO, AND THIS WAS BUILT THERE IS NO RECORD OF ITS TRUE CONSTRUCTION TIME.

IT'S LISTED AS A 1910. IT IS NOT ON THE 1883 MAP. IT IS ON THE 1926 MAP IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM.

FORM. AND SO IT COULD BE IN KEEPING THAT AT THE TIME OF ITS CONSTRUCTION, THEY MAY HAVE FOLLOWED HIS, YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTURAL PRECEDENT ON THE STREET, OR JUST GONE WITH MATERIALS THAT THEY COULD AFFORD. SO WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE TURNPOSTS ARE AN ORIGINAL ARTIFACT TO THE HOUSE. WE KNOW IN 1992, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR THE BANISTER TO BE REPLACED IN KEEPING WITH A STRUCTURE. THEY CALLED IT THE OLIVER HOUSE ON 60 14TH STREET AND ATLANTIC. I COULDN'T FIND ANY RECORDS. SO AT THAT POINT, SOMETHING WAS REPLACED AGAIN, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS PRIOR. YES. SO WHEN WE WENT TO REDO OUR POST, BOTH FOR STRUCTURAL PURPOSES AND WHAT WE FELT WAS ARCHITECTURAL PREFERENCE, WE DID TRY TO MAINTAIN WHAT WE SAW IN THE AREA. AND WHAT WE SAW IN THE AREA WAS A LOT OF WHAT WE DID. AND AGAIN, LIKE MY HUSBAND EXPLAINED, AT THE TIME WE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IT WAS A REPLACEMENT IN KIND SINCE WE WEREN'T CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OR THE WE DIDN'T MOVE THE POSTS. THEY REMAINED ON THE FOOTPRINT THEY WERE IN.

EXCUSE ME. SO WE SORT OF FELT WE THOUGHT WE WERE IN-KIND. SO WE DIDN'T MEAN TO VIOLATE ANY GUIDELINES, BUT HERE WE ARE. THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I'M GOING TO SAY THIS NOT JUST FOR YOU GUYS, BUT FOR ANYBODY WHO'S LISTENING NOW. I THINK ESPECIALLY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, A REPLACEMENT IN-KIND NEEDS TO BE VERY, VERY SPECIFIC. SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU GOT TURNED POSTS. IN KIND WOULD HAVE BEEN GOING BACK WITH TURNED POSTS. THE FACT THAT YOU CHANGED FROM TURNED POSTS TO STRAIGHT, STRAIGHT SQUARE POSTS, YOU SHOULD HAVE COME HERE AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU SOME COMMENTS ON IT. AND I DON'T, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE THAT'S A CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD WITH ME SINCE. YEAH.

BUT AGAIN, BEING NEW THERE, BOUGHT THE HOUSE IN JANUARY.

THE POST THAT WE HAVE OUT FRONT IS THE SAME AS THE POST THAT WAS APPROVED IN WHAT DRAWING? 2003, IN THE EXTENSION FOR 2003. IN THE EXTENSION ON THE BACK. SO AGAIN, AND BEING THAT BUT NO, YOUR POINT TAKEN. I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU. WE AGREE, AND IT'S A LESSON LEARNED, AND IT'S AN EXPENSIVE LESSON LEARNED. BUT, YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE. I'M SAYING THAT FOR THE NEXT PERSON WHO WANTS TO DO AN IN-KIND DEAL. NO, NO, ANYBODY WE TALK TO, WE TOLD THEM THE SAME THING.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S A LEARNING PROCESS.

RIGHT. AND I APPRECIATE THAT YOU GUYS LOOKED INTO THIS AND YOU ACTUALLY DID RESEARCH. I THINK THAT'S HELPFUL TO HEAR ALL THAT RESEARCH YOU DID.

BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR THEM OR COMMENTS.

I'M JUST TRYING I'M COUNTING SLATS AND SPINDLES AND STUFF.

DID YOU CHANGE ACTUALLY WHERE THE POSTS ARE AND THE RAILING? NO, NO, BECAUSE THE RAILING THE TOP PICTURE, IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE THE FRONT STEPS, THE POSTS COME DOWN INSIDE THE STEPS. WELL, THEY'RE IN THE BOTTOM PICTURE, THE POSTS ARE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THOSE 2, THOSE FIRST 2, WHERE THE STEPS WERE, WERE SUSPENDED IN THE AIR. SO WE MOVED THEM TO WHERE THIS WHICH THEN CHANGED THE RAILING? NO. WELL, THE RAILING WAS ALSO CHANGED BECAUSE THE DIMENSION OF THE POST WENT FROM A 4-INCH SQUARE BASE TO LIKE AN 8-INCH. I GOT THAT PART. THE OPENING IS WHAT KIND OF THREW ME OFF, AND I STARTED COUNTING SPACES.

NO. SO IT'S THE POST AND THE RAILINGS GOT CHANGED? WELL, YES AND NO. THE RAILINGS WERE SLIGHTLY SKEWED. SORRY. IF YOU START FROM THE CORNER POST WORKED THIS WAY, THEY WEREN'T.

BUT TO THE FRONT POST, YOU'RE RIGHT, THOSE 2 WERE THE ONES AT THE STEPS. SO THE GUARDRAIL WAS SHORTENED IN ORDER

[01:50:02]

BUT THEY HAD WELL, THEY HAD TO BE SHORTENED BECAUSE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN EACH POST HAD CHANGED.

NOT THE DISTANCE, THE EXTRA GIRTH. UNDERSTOOD.

SHORTENED THE RAILING, BUT THE RAILINGS WERE REMOVED.

AND THEN REINSTALLED JUST SLIGHTLY SHORTER. HE REMOVED A LITTLE BIT OF MATERIAL TO SQUEEZE THEM IN. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THEM? ALL RIGHT, SEEING NONE, I WILL, OPEN THIS CASE FOR PUBLIC HEARING. IS ANYBODY ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC WISH TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THIS? SEEING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE TO BOARD DISCUSSION. WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? I, I, I APPRECIATE THE ANALYSIS THAT THEY PROVIDED AND, AND IN AGREEMENT THAT THE, THE, THE SPINNER SPINDLE TYPE POSTS WERE NOT QUITE SURE, NOT ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE. UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THAT THE EXAMPLES PROVIDED DO OFFER A NICER DETAIL WITH THE CHAMFERED CORNERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND, AND, AND THAT IS EVIDENT ON THAT ON BROOM STREET AS WELL. SO I MEAN, IN, IN HINDSIGHT, IF WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS AND IT WASN'T ALREADY CONSTRUCTED, I WOULD HAVE SAID I'D LIKE TO SEE MAYBE A CHAMFERED CORNER OR A, LIKE, A CAP AT THE TOP, LIKE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES.

THERE'S JUST A LITTLE A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL. AND THESE ARE JUST VERY PLAIN, WHATEVER IT IS, 6 BY 6 OR WHATEVER IT IS, YOU KNOW, WRAPPED. I'M GUESSING IT'S IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S WRAPPED. THE SUPER PLAIN STRAIGHT SHAFT KIND OF TAKES ON A CONTEMPORARY LOOK. AND THEY'RE CHUNKY. AND THEY'RE CHUNKY. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THEY FEEL OUT OF PROPORTION. YEAH, THEY'RE OUT OF PROPORTION.

WHERE IN, LIKE, ESPECIALLY THE HOUSE IN THE BOTTOM, THE BOTTOM RIGHT PICTURE, THERE'S A NICE LITTLE TRIM OKAY. AND, AND, AND I, AND I TOOK SOME TIME JUST KIND OF WALKING UP AND DRIVING UP AND DOWN THAT STREET AND JUST LOOKING AT THAT. AND IT IF WE WERE REVIEWING THIS NOT AFTER THE FACT, I WOULD HAVE SUGGESTED A BIT MORE DETAIL AND NOT GONE WITH THIS. SO I'M REALLY NOT SURE HOW WE PROCEED AT THIS POINT. IT'S A LITTLE BIT UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS TOTALLY APPROPRIATE. BUT AGAIN, THEY'VE ALREADY DONE IT, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROCEED. I'M KIND OF LOOKING FOR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE WELL, I THINK THE SAVING GRACE IS TOO THAT IT'S A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S WHAT I HARPED ON THE MOST. THE HANDRAILS WERE SAVED AS MUCH AS THEY COULD.

THEY WERE CUT DOWN A LITTLE BIT, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE, WHERE I'M AT. I AGREE WITH THE POST COMMENT, BUT WELL, I THINK TOO, YOU KNOW, FROM THE OLD PHOTOS THAT I PULLED THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, THOSE RAILINGS ARE DO NOT APPEAR TO BE ORIGINAL. THEY HAD HORIZONTAL, ALMOST CATTLE RAILINGS ON THE ORIGINAL, AND THOSE POSTS WERE THERE. SO I ALMOST FEEL LIKE THE POSTS WERE PROBABLY ORIGINAL TURNED, AND IT HAD A DIFFERENT RAILING ON IT. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS WHAT IT IS.

YEAH. AND IT'S A LESSON LEARNED, AND WE MOVE FORWARD, AND WE MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT.

EXAMPLE OF IT. BUT I THINK WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, AND IT'S IN THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, THAT DETAILS LIKE THAT AREN'T REMOVED.

BECAUSE IF WE'RE JUST MIMICKING OTHER HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE'RE NOT BEING TRUE TO WHAT THIS HOUSE WAS. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS TRY TO FIND LIKE, WELL, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO BE TRUE TO? BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN ALTERATIONS OVER TIME. SO SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO PICK WHAT YOU'RE BEING TRUE TO. SO I THINK IT'S A LESSON, AND I THINK WE DO PUT THE WE DEFINE IN-KIND VERY SPECIFICALLY, AND WE PUT IT IN THE MATRIX FOR THE FUTURE.

AND JUST FOR YOUR EDIFICATION, WHEN YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING IN THE BACK THAT THESE ARE MATCHING SOMETHING THAT WAS DONE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WE ARE LIKE 90% CONCERNED WITH WHAT IS OUT-FACING, WHAT FACES THE STREET. SO SOMETHING MAY HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN THE BACK FOR AN ADDITION OR SOMETHING THAT MAY NOT HAVE THEN BEEN APPROVED ON THE FRONT OF A BUILDING.

AND THEN I DO, JUST TO CLARIFY, I DON'T THINK YOU SAID IT, BUT MAYBE I MISHEARD IT. AND YOU'LL NEED TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM IF YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO TESTIFY. THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T REBUILD NEW RAILINGS.

THOSE WERE THE ACTUAL RAILINGS.

YEAH, I MEANT ORIGINAL, ORIGINAL. YEAH, UNDERSTOOD.

THAT WAS, THAT WAS MY ONLY POINT. YEAH, AGAIN, YEAH, I, I TO YOUR POINT, MS. BYRNES, IF YOU SO WANTED I'D RATHER NOT

[01:55:01]

SURE. IT'S A SMALL THING.

I WILL TELL YOU THAT ON 3RD STREET, THERE ARE NUMEROUS EXACT SAME POSTS AND SIGNS. LIKE MS. KOSACK SAID, YOU KNOW, MAYBE MORE DEFINITION IS NECESSARY, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, USE THAT AS MY EXCUSE HERE, BUT WHAT WE WANT TO DO, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT PLANNING ON MOVING WE'RE FROM FERNANDINA BEACH. WE MOVED HERE AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO DIE. YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO GET ALONG WITH THE BOARD AND DO THINGS.

EVERYBODY SAYS THAT. WAIT 3 YEARS. NO, NO, THAT'S THE WAY WE FEEL. SO WE, WE PLAN ON MOVING FORWARD AND DOING IT, AND WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION WITH THIS YOUNG LADY. YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT I, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE.

WHAT'S HAPPENED HAS HAPPENED.

THE PLANS FOR THIS HOUSE ARE, I THINK, ARE GOING TO BE IN KEEPING WITH WHAT'S THERE.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WELL, BEFORE I GO SIT DOWN, I DON'T WANT TO GET LECTURED TO. PERHAPS THERE'S AND THIS MAY BE MORE OF A BOARD CONVERSATION IT'S LIKE MAYBE A LESSON FOR US IS MORE OUTREACH IN THE COMMUNITY SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT IN-KIND IS OR WHAT, LIKE, WHAT THE GOAL IS HERE. I DON'T KNOW HOW WE DO THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW. WE CAN DO THAT. AND PRE-APP WELL, DID YOU HAVE ANY SORT OF PRE-APPLICATION MEETING? I GUESS NOT BECAUSE THERE WASN'T AN APPLICATION. I DID MEET WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS SHORTLY AFTER THE PURCHASE OF THEIR HOME OR BEFORE, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THERE WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT IN-KIND. REPLACEMENT.

AND WHAT WOULD BE BUT YOU WOULD YOU HAVE THOUGHT THEN A STAFF APPROVAL? I HAD MENTIONED THAT WHEN THEY WERE SETTLED AND READY TO MAKE CHANGES TO THEIR HOME TO GIVE ME A CALL. THAT FOLLOW-UP DID NOT HAPPEN BEFORE THIS PROJECT WAS TAKING PLACE. OKAY. I WOULD PROBABLY BREAKDOWN OCCURRED, LIKE, YEAH, TO DO BETTER. AND I STILL DIDN'T KNOW WHERE PORCH POST WOULD FALL ON THE MATRIX. I'M YEAH, I WON'T YOU KNOW, IT'S I DON'T BLAME MIA. IT'S JUST AS MUCH ON US THAT WE, WE SHOULD HAVE SOUGHT MORE CLARIFICATION MAYBE FROM HER.

BUT, HER DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN AND WE ARE ABLE TO ACCESS HER, SO THAT'S, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. THE ISSUE WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T WE THOUGHT HONESTLY THAT WE WERE REPLACING IF YOU LOOK AT THAT HOUSE RIGHT NOW, THOSE 6 BOARDS THAT ARE ON THE DECK RIGHT WHERE THOSE THE ENTRANCE IS, I WENT TO MIA AND I GOT APPROVAL TO REPAIR THOSE BECAUSE THEY WERE ROTTED OUT. I DID THOSE EXACTLY IN KIND.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S THE LEVEL WE'RE AT NOW. SO IT IS A LESSON LEARNED FOR US, AND WE HAVE SUBMITTED FURTHER THINGS, REQUESTS TO HER FOR WORK ON THE HOUSE, BUT. THIS ONE, YOU KNOW, IT'S, I THINK IT'S IN MY PERSONAL VIEW, I THINK IT'S VERY IN KEEPING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE'LL JUST GO FROM THERE.

YEAH, AND I THINK MIA, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT I THINK THERE WAS A BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET A PERMIT, THERE IS FINANCIAL REPERCUSSIONS FOR THEM FROM THE CITY. YES. OKAY.

YEAH, SO THEY DO, THEY DO HAVE TO PAY A MONETARY PENALTY FOR CONDUCTING WORK? YES, THEIR AFTER-THE-FACT APPLICATION TO COME BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE GET-GO. AND THEN ANY BUILDING PERMITS THAT ARE REQUIRED WILL BE 4 TIMES THE COST OF A BUILDING PERMIT.

YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK WE'RE DONE THERE. DOES ANYONE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION ON THIS? DO WE JUST APPROVE IT AS IS? I MEAN, THERE ARE NO CHANGES BEING SUGGESTED.

REALLY, THAT'S UP TO YOU GUYS, I GUESS. THE APPLICANT RECOMMENDED PUTTING IN SHAVING DOWN THE DEGREES, BUT IS THAT I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MATERIAL THAT IS. YEAH, I DON'T IF IT'S HARD, I DON'T THINK THAT'S YEAH, BECAUSE THE WAY IT WRAPS IN THE PACKAGE. YEAH, IT'S GERMANE TO THE SITUATION.

YEAH, AGREED. THE POINT WAS JUST THE EXAMPLES ARE NOT REALLY APPLICABLE TO HERE. GO FOR IT, BOB. I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND IT NOW. WHERE DO I NEED TO GO TO? OH YEAH, HERE I AM. I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 202618 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND

[02:00:01]

SO COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE VOTE? JUST TO MENTION THAT THIS IS AN AFTER-THE-FACT APPROVAL.

YES. MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? YES.

MEMBER KOSACK? YES. MEMBER BYRNES? YES. MEMBER SALA? YES.

MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES.

BEFORE WE MOVE ON, IS THERE A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE BOARD ON WHERE PORCH POSTS SHOULD FALL ON THE COA MATRIX? AND THEN I COULD BRING AN UPDATED ONE TO YOU GUYS AT THE NEXT MEETING. MEETING.

CAN WE CAN I LOOK AT THAT? YEAH, HAPPY TO LOOK AT IT. WE CAN DISCUSS IT LATER. YEAH, I THINK IT'S WORTH DISCUSSING.

YEAH, MAYBE IT MAY BE LOOKING AT THE SCOPE OF WHAT THE PROPOSED CHANGE IS, AND MAYBE WHEN WE NAIL DOWN WHAT THAT IN-KIND WHAT THE HDC MEANS BY IN-KIND. AND IF THE TORCH POSTS INCLUDE THE RAILINGS IN BETWEEN THE BALLAST I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF YEAH, I DON'T THINK IT'S IT'S NOT JUST THE POST, THE WHOLE THING. YEAH.

WE WENT INTO DETAIL WITH WHAT OLA CAFE IS ABOUT THE POST AND THE RAILINGS. THAT'S WHY I'M NOT SURE IT'S JUST IN KIND.

YEAH, AND, AND THE FRONT PORCH IS REALLY THE FACE OF THE HOUSE, SO IT'S MUCH MORE THAN JUST A SMALL ELEMENT.

IT'S REALLY THE FIRST THING YOU SEE WHEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT A HOUSE. SO MAYBE THAT SHOULD BE COMING BEFORE THE BOARD BECAUSE OF THAT. YEP, HAPPY TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING AND BRING SOME SAMPLE DEFINITIONS OF IN-KIND, AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS IN JULY. THAT SOUNDS

[5.5 HDC2026-0019 - COTNER ARCHITECTS LLC, AGENT FOR 1303 SR 200 LLC, 318 CENTRE STREET]

ALTHOUGH THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 2016, THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO COME PRESENT TO THE HDC DUE TO THE CHANGE IN OPENINGS. ANY CHANGE IN ANY CHANGES TO THE CONSTRUCTION OPENINGS ON A STRUCTURE, NON-CONTRIBUTING OR CONTRIBUTING, HAS TO BE HEARD BY THE HDC. IT WAS DETERMINED BY STAFF THAT TRANSITIONING FROM A GARAGE DOOR THAT COULD BE OPENED TO FIXED WINDOWS AND A KNEE WALL IS CHANGING THE OPENINGS ON THE STRUCTURE. SO STAFF REQUESTED THAT THIS APPLICANT MAKE AN APPLICATION AND PRESENT TO THE HDC. I HAVE A PICTURE OF WHAT'S EXISTING THERE. IT'S NOT THE AMELIA TAVERN ANYMORE, SO I PRETTY SURE THAT SIGN HAS BEEN REMOVED. I'M NOT SURE, BUT YOU CAN REALLY SEE THE GARAGE DOORS ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE OF THE DOOR ALONG WITH THIS APPLICATION. SO THIS IS THE DRAWING OF THE EXISTING ELEVATIONS, AND THEN THIS IS THE PROPOSED ELEVATION WITH THE FIXED STOREFRONT WINDOWS. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT MIDDLE ENTRANCE DOOR IS ALSO CHANGING FROM A GARAGE ROLL-UP DOOR.

IT'S KIND OF RECESSED TO A FIXED BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED RECENTLY, NOT SCRUTINIZING AS MUCH AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, AND THE OPENINGS, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE CHANGING FROM A DOOR TO A WINDOW, STILL RETAIN THAT SHAPE. SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THIS CASE AT THIS TIME.

THANK YOU, MIA. DOES ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, LET'S CALL THE APPLICANT FORWARD. ANN PITTMAN FROM COTNER ARCHITECTS. ADDRESS IS 15 NORTH 18TH STREET. HEY, ANN. YEAH, MIA PRETTY MUCH DESCRIBED IT. THE INTENT WAS JUST TO ENCLOSE THE FRONT, THE OPEN DINING SPACE WHICH IS THERE NOW, OR WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY THERE WHEN THE TAVERN WAS, THERE, AND, JUST ENCLOSE THAT SPACE TO GET MORE INDOOR SEATING. SO TO DO AWAY WITH THE GARAGE DOORS, FIXED STOREFRONT, WITH THE BRICK KNEE WALL BELOW

[02:05:03]

THAT, THAT WAS REALLY A REALLY A NICE CHARACTERISTIC OF THE BUILDING, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE REALLY HAVE PURVIEW OVER THAT PARTICULAR ELEMENT. I THINK THAT'S A PERSONAL ISSUE FOR ME THAT I DON'T KNOW APPLIES TO THE PROJECT ITSELF.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY THERE'S NO CODE FOR THAT.

SEE, I'M CURIOUS. I REMEMBER WHEN THIS WENT IN, WHEN JOHN DID IT ORIGINALLY, HOW COME THERE'S NO LANDSCAPE MITIGATION LIKE PLANTER BOXES OR ANYTHING? I DON'T THINK THEY PUSHED ON THAT. OKAY. WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THE OLD DOORS? I'M NOT SURE. I'M NOT SURE. DO YOU HAVE THE DIMENSIONS? WELL, I CAN GET THEM FOR YOU. YEAH, IT'S, IT'S, I, I AGREE. AND SIMILAR TO THE, THE WHAT MAKES PART OF WHAT MAKES PASCAL SO SPECIAL IS THOSE GARAGE DOORS AND THAT CONNECTION TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND LOSE AGAIN, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE PROPERTY TO REALLY HAVE, BUT AS A DESIGNER, LOSING THAT IS IT'S A LITTLE BIT UNFORTUNATE. I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE WAY IT LOOKS. IT JUST IT JUST IT'S JUST GONNA LOOK KIND OF I HATE TO SAY THIS BLAND.

AND, YOU KNOW, YEAH, JUST NOT AS SPECIAL AS IT WAS.

BUT AGAIN, I DON'T I DON'T THINK WE REALLY HAVE THE PURVIEW. IT'S ME, THE DESIGNER, THAT'S COMMENTING ON THAT. I JUST HAVE TO ASK, THE FIG TREES WHAT ARE THE FIG TREES INSIDE? ARE THEY REAL TREES? NO, THEY WILL NOT BE REAL. THERE WOULD BE NO WAY TO KEEP THOSE ALIVE. I KNOW, I'M HEARING SOMETHING TO THE ROOF TO NO, NO, NO, WE WEREN'T GONNA HELICOPTER THEM IN. SO WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO BE? THEY'RE ARTIFICIAL TREES. THERE'S ACTUALLY COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT MAKE THEM, AND THEY MAKE THEM IN SECTIONS SO THEY CAN THEY'LL COME SHIP THEM AND ASSEMBLE THEM ON SITE, AND THEY LOOK VERY REALISTIC.

IS THE NEW BRICK ON THE KNEE WALL JUST GONNA MATCH THE BRICK THAT'S ALREADY THERE? YEAH, RIGHT. WOULD IT BE BETTER IF THAT WAS A LIKE NO, I THINK IT'S BETTER. AND JUST RECESSED.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, IT IS RECESSED. SO YOU'LL HAVE THAT SHADOW LINE. I THINK IN GENERAL IT'LL HAVE THE SAME FEEL IN REALITY. YEAH. ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ANN? I SEE NONE. I GUESS WE'LL LET YOU SIT DOWN AND I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. DOES ANYONE WANT TO SPEAK TOWARDS THIS PROJECT? SEEING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING AND OPEN BOARD DISCUSSION. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH IT. I MEAN, IT'S HITTING CODE, IT'S HITTING IT'S AN INFILL BUILDING. IT WAS AND I DON'T KNOW, IF THIS CAME TO US ORIGINALLY, WE WOULDN'T HAVE DENIED IT FOR ANY REASON, RIGHT? AND THEY'VE CALLED OUT THE WINDOWS AND DOORS. I WENT AND LOOKED THEM UP. THEY'RE VERY APPROPRIATE. I'LL JUST MISS THE WAY IT USED TO FEEL. I'LL GET OVER IT. I'M HAPPY TO SEE SOMETHING MOVING FORWARD AND MOVING FORWARD THERE. YEAH.

DOES SOMEBODY WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT? I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE HCC-2026-0019 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE TO MAKE THE HCC MAKE OH, I MOVE THAT THE HCC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD: THAT HCC CASE HCC-2026-0019 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, I MOVE THAT THE CASE AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. SECOND. ALL RIGHT, MOTION AND SECOND.

SYLVIA, CAN YOU PLEASE CALL THE VOTE? MEMBER SHERSTAD-SCHALLER? YES.

MEMBER BYRNES? YES. MEMBER KOSACK? YES. MEMBER SALA? YES.

MEMBER PSULKOWSKI? YES. VICE CHAIR POZZETTA? YES. ALL RIGHT,

[5.6 HDC 2026-0021 - COMPASS GROUP DEVELOPMENT, AGENT FOR OSTEEN COMPANY LLP, 0 N FRONT STREET, PT LOT 1 & 2]

THIS IS HDC 2026-0021 FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 0 FRONT STREET. IT'S NOT

[02:10:02]

SO, FOR THIS PROPERTY, THERE'S A 15-FOOT REQUIRED VIEW CORRIDOR ON EACH SIDE, AND THAT IS ADDRESSED BY THIS REQUEST. ALSO, PART OF THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES IS FACILITATING PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE WATER. THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS TO ACCESS THE BOARDWALK OF THIS PROPERTY, AND IT IS THE INTENT THAT THIS IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. THIS WILL BE ALONG FRONT STREET, SO GOOD PEDESTRIAN ACCESS THERE FROM CENTER STREET AND THE MARINA.

THIS APPLICATION, SIMILAR TO THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL CASE WE HEARD EARLIER, IS RUNNING CONCURRENT TRACKS BETWEEN THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE AND THE HDC. SO I'LL KIND OF GET TO WHERE WE ARE IN THAT PROCESS MOVING ON, BUT TRC WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF THE SITE PLAN DESIGN REQUIREMENTS AND REVIEW, INCLUDING UTILITIES, STORMWATER, LANDSCAPING. FIRE BUILDING CODE. SO THIS IS THE FLOOR PLAN FOR THE FIRST FLOOR, AND THEN ON THE SECOND FLOOR THERE IS ANOTHER RESTAURANT PROPOSED.

HERE ARE THE ELEVATIONS. THE EAST ELEVATION, THE VIEW FROM THE AMELIA RIVER. SO THIS IS IF YOU WERE LIKE ON A BOAT LOOKING TOWARDS, TOWN, THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD SEE. I NOTICED THAT THERE WERE 2 A LITTLE BIT DIFFERING ELEVATIONS FOR THE EAST ELEVATION, SO I WOULD LIKE THE APPLICANT TO SPEAK TO THAT AS WELL. THE DIFFERENCE I'M NOTICING IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE, WHERE THERE LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A KIND OF BOARDWALK ON THAT BUILDING TO THE SOUTH, AND THEN ON THE TOP ELEVATION, IT JUST LOOKS MORE OPEN. THIS IS THE WEST ELEVATION. SO IF YOU'RE STANDING AT FRONT STREET LOOKING OUT TOWARDS THE RIVER, THIS IS THE ELEVATION OF THE PROPOSED ELEVATION OF THE PROJECT HERE. THE SOUTH ELEVATION, SO LOOKING FROM THE MARINA, IS ON THE TOP, AND THEN THE NORTH ELEVATION, IF YOU WERE STANDING WITH WITH YOUR BACK TOWARDS THE PORT LOOKING DOWN, THIS IS THE VIEW. THESE ARE THE SAME. SO GETTING BACK TO THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THIS WILL BE LOOKED AT THROUGH THE CITY, COMPLIANCE HAS BEEN CONFIRMED REGARDING THOSE SETBACKS, THE SIDE LOT AND MID-BLOCK VIEW CORRIDORS, ROOF FORM, AND OTHER CRA DESIGN GUIDELINE CRITERIA, AS WELL AS A PERMISSIBLE USE FOR THIS LOT ACCORDING TO THE ZONING. THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, AS IT MOVES THROUGH THAT PROCESS, WILL REVIEW SITE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS, LANDSCAPING, THE SEAWALL PORTION OF THIS PROJECT, AND TRANSPORTATION AND TRAFFIC CIRCULATION. OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THAT I BELIEVE THE HCC SHOULD CONSIDER WHEN THIS CASE COMES BACK FOR FINAL APPROVAL IS SPECIFICATIONS FOR DOORS AND WINDOWS, THE DISCUSSION OF AWNING MATERIAL, AND DISCUSSING OF HEIGHT REGULATIONS SUCH AS THE PARAPET HEIGHT AND THE LOOKOUT ELEMENT.

I'LL, I'LL LET THE APPLICANT KIND OF EXPLAIN THE PROJECT, AND THEN IF WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT HEIGHT OR ANY OF THESE THINGS THAT I'VE OUTLINED IN MY PRESENTATION, I'M HAPPY TO JUMP BACK IN.

BUT STAFF IS ABLE TO RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT AT THIS TIME. OKAY, THANK YOU, MIA. DOES ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MIA? I DO. MIA? AS, AS WE WATCH ALL THE PLANNING OF WHAT I CALL THE SOUTH, THE PARK AREA, THE FLOOD WALL, IS THIS ALL TIED INTO THAT SOMEHOW? THE PROPERTY OWNER IS WORKING WITH THE CITY ON A PLAN TO CONTINUE THE SEAWALL. SO THERE WILL BE A UNIFIED KIND OF RESILIENCY WALL EFFORT THAT CONTINUES THROUGH THIS PROPERTY. MR. CHAIRMAN, I JUST HAD ONE ITEM TO ADD TO THE RECORD THAT MIA DID HAND OUT AHEAD OF TIME.

IN OUR PACKET, WHICH IS PART OF YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL, WE HAD UNFORTUNATELY THE UNSIGNED AGENT AUTHORIZATION. SO THAT IS THE ONLY REASON YOU HAVE SOMETHING AT YOUR SPACE. WE ARE GOING TO ENTER THIS INTO THE RECORD, AND IT IS CORRECTLY FILLED OUT AND NOTARIZED. SO I WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR FOR THE RECORD. OKAY. AND THEN WHEN THE APPLICANT COMES UP, WE HAVE SOME NAME CONFUSION ON THE AGENT, BUT WE CAN CLARIFY THAT FOR THE RECORD AS WELL. BUT, BUT MAINLY THAT WE DO HAVE A PROPER AGENT AUTHORIZATION ON FILE WITH THE CITY. OKAY.

YEAH, I WAS WONDERING WHY WE HAD THAT. THE ONE IN THE PACKET'S NOT SIGNED OR NOTARIZED, SO WE JUST HAD THE WRONG VERSION IN THERE. OKAY, THANK YOU. AND I DO HAVE SOME HEIGHT QUESTIONS, BUT MAYBE WE'LL ASK THE APPLICANT TO COME UP AND, FILL US IN. IS THIS HOT,

[02:15:06]

CAN I I CAN'T DO IT FROM HERE. IS THAT COMPUTER ON? HOW YOU DOING? GOOD. ARE YOU EXCITED? ALWAYS TO GET TO THE INSIDE. HERE, YOU CAN PLUG IT IN ON THE SECOND.

OKAY. ALRIGHTY, GOT IT. AND THEN I'LL SWITCH OVER INTO THIS. OKAY. AND RON, ONCE YOU GET THAT FIGURED OUT, IF YOU COULD JUST GIVE ME A NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

I'LL DO IT. I'M JUST TRYING TO START AND HAVE EVERYTHING READY AT THE SAME TIME. NO PROBLEM.

GOOD EVENING. FOR THE RECORD, RON FLICK. IT'S NOT SHOWING UP ON THE SCREEN. UH OH. LET'S SEE. IS THAT WATERLINE? OKAY.

OH, LOOKS AROUND. YOU CAN PAUSE ME. OOPS. WE ONLY WANT THAT.

YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IT WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN.

OKAY. OR YOU CAN ASK HIM.

OKAY. LET'S SEE. OKAY, SO I THINK YOU BROUGHT SOME NEW DRAWINGS OR SOMETHING THAT AREN'T IN OUR REVIEW PACKET. A COUPLE SHEETS. OKAY.

TO EXPLAIN SOME THINGS TO YOU. I'M NOT SURE WHAT ALL IS IN YOUR PACKET. I ASSUME IT'S EVERYTHING I SAID. YEAH. I THINK THAT DID THAT ONE. I CAN PUT IT ON MINE AND I CAN SHOW YOU WHICH ONE. OKAY. YEAH, AND I CAN TELL YOU. OKAY. YEAH, SORRY ABOUT THAT. IT'S ALL RIGHT. SOMETIMES IT DOES, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T. I'M GONNA DO THE POWERPOINT. OKAY. I'M GONNA DO THAT. OKAY. SO. IT'S TOUCHSCREEN. OKAY. SO, DO YOU WANT THIS ONE? WE CAN GO BACK TO THIS FILE TOO. THAT ONE. TOP. OKAY, TOP ONE. THERE YOU GO. GOTCHA. OKAY, AND THEN I'LL CLOSE OUT MY POWERPOINT.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR BEARING WITH US. SURE. GOT WHAT WE NEED. ALL RIGHT, GOOD. OKAY.

AND MR. ALL RIGHT, I THINK WE GOT OUR ADDRESS.

YOU'RE GONNA START OVER? NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. DO WE WANT TO WAIT FOR THESE COUPLE OF FOLKS? OH, THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT, SHE'S QUICK. THAT'S FINE. YOU COULD HAVE STARTED A TREND AND EVERYBODY HAD TO ACT OUT. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS RON FLICK.

I RESIDE AT 86119 SHELTER ISLAND DRIVE, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA, AND I'M HERE AS AGENT AND REPRESENTATIVE FOR DEVELOPMENT FOR THE OSTEEN PROPERTIES DEVELOPMENT THAT'S PROVIDED IN YOUR PACKET. AND I'M SORRY, WE I THINK WE ENDED UP SENDING ONE SIGNED AND ONE UNSIGNED BY ACCIDENT. AND HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE OWNER'S AGENT

[02:20:02]

I GUESS I'M GONNA HAVE TO LOOK UP I'M NOT TRACKING WITH YOU. THIS IS OUR SITE PLAN. YOU CAN SEE THE BLUE LINES ARE YOUR 15-FOOT SETBACK ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDE.

FOR EXAMPLE, HERE, AND UP TOP YOU GOT THE SAME THING. THE RED IS A 20-FOOT PLUS, BUT WHICH IS NOT REQUIRED HERE.

BUT WHEN WE WERE DOING STUDIES, WE WERE JUST TRYING TO CALCULATE SOME VIEW CORRIDORS.

FIRST OF ALL, IN COOPERATION WITH THE CITY, WE HAVE MET AND DISCUSSED MANY OF THE ITEMS REGARDING THIS SITE LAYOUT SO THAT WE COULD LINK THE BOARDWALK SYSTEM.

EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT DEFINED NORTH YET, WE'RE TRYING TO DEFINE THE FIRST PIECE OF IT AND CONTINUING THE MARINA CONCEPT OPTION IN THE JURISDICTION NORTH. AND IN DOING THAT, YOU CAN SEE RIGHT THERE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, IT DOESN'T SHOW THE CONNECTION THERE YET, BUT WE HAVE MET WITH MR. PLATT AND THE ENGINEERING FIRM, KIMBERLY HORN. YES.

REPRESENTATIVES, AND I'VE MET WITH THEM A COUPLE OF TIMES, AND WE'VE COORDINATED HOW TO MAKE THAT CONNECTION, AND THAT WILL COME BEFORE YOU WHEN WE SUBMIT OUR FINALS, BUT THAT'S A TRC THING. IT'LL BE DONE BY TRC, BUT NEXT TIME YOU SEE IT, IT'LL BE FULLY INTEGRATED.

ALSO, IF YOU LOOK TO THE NORTH, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'LL SEE IS THAT'S SORT OF OPEN-ENDED THERE, AND YOU'LL SEE IN SOME OF THESE ELEVATIONS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ON.

WE'VE NOT MADE THE CONNECTION OF THE WALL UP THERE OR THE BOARDWALK, WHICH IS OUT ON THE BUTLER ACT LINE, WHICH IS ALL THE WAY OUT IN THE WATER. THAT'S RIGHT ON THE BUTLER ACT LINE, AND IT LINES UP SO THAT YOUR MARINA CONNECTION CAN BE MADE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT ALLOWS PUBLIC ACCESS NORTH AND SOUTH AS THINGS ARE CONNECTED.

THIS ALSO ALLOWS FOR ACCESS ON BOTH THE NORTH END OF THE PROPERTY AND SOUTH END OF THE PROPERTY FOR PUBLIC ACCESS TO COME ALL THE WAY BACK TO A SIDEWALK, WHICH DOESN'T EXIST TODAY IN THE CITY. BUT SOMEDAY, SHOULD THAT EXIST, IT WILL CREATE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT TO STILL OCCUR WHILE STILL PROTECTING THE SETBACKS, WHICH ALSO CONTRIBUTE TO CREATE VIEW CORRIDORS, AS THE CITY HAS DESIRED. LET'S GO TO THE ROLL DOWN A SLIDE, PLEASE. THANK YOU. THAT'S THE SECOND STORY. YOU'LL SEE ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER, THAT'S PART OF THE CUPOLA, WHICH WE'LL SHOW YOU AGAIN HERE. AND ON THAT'S PART OF THAT, WHICH WILL SET ABOVE A PORTION WHICH THE CITY HAD DESCRIBED IN ITS STAFF REPORT BEING THAT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO LOCATE THE MARINA WELCOME STATION FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA. WE'RE IN CONVERSATION WITH THE STATE, AND ONCE WE GET YOUR BLESSING FOR CONCEPTUAL, WE'RE GOING TO ACTIVELY MOVE TO REINVIGORATE THAT DISCUSSION AND CREATE THAT HISTORIC ELEMENT IN AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO HAVE THAT EXIST IN FERNANDINA BEACH, AND IT'D BE GOOD FOR THE WATERFRONT COMPLETELY.

[02:25:01]

YOU'LL NOTICE ON THE 2ND FLOOR THERE'S A RESTAURANT THERE, AND YOU'LL SEE THE DARKER HASHED AREA. THAT'S THE DECK AREA, AND MOST OF THIS IS ALL EXPOSED DECK.

IT'S THE GREATEST PICTURE WINDOW IN A RESTAURANT IS WHAT YOU SEE OUT THE FRONT. IT'S THE WATER, THE MARSH, AND THE BEAUTIFUL SUNSETS IN THE WEST. THIS WILL BE PROBABLY RIGHT NOW THE PROGRAM IS THIS IS MORE OF A WHITE TABLECLOTH RESTAURANT ON THE UPPER DECK.

THE AS YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM PART OF THE SCREEN, IF YOU'LL SLIDE DOWN JUST A LITTLE BIT, THAT AREA WHICH YOU SEE WHITE THERE, THAT'S A ROOF AREA, AND IT'S NEXT TO THE LOOKOUT AREA. OKAY.

THAT WILL ASSUMING WE GET OUR SUPPORT FROM THE STATE, WHICH IS VERY POSITIVE TODAY, WE WILL PROBABLY EXPAND SOME OF THAT UPPER STORY SPACE THERE TO THIS SAME LEVEL THAT THE RESTAURANT IS SO THAT WE HAVE MORE SPACE TO SUPPORT MUSEUM ARTIFACT THINGS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE TO SUPPORT THE MARINE WELCOME STATION. IN FLORIDA. SO WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHILE IT IS A MARINE SHOP FOR MARINE USE AND MARINE COMPATIBILITY, IT'S ALSO GOING TO SERVE AS A PLACE FOR VIEWING AND THINGS LIKE THAT FOR VISITORS AND GUESTS TO SEE ARTIFACTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT MAY BE DISPLAYED IN CABINETS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO WE'LL EXPAND THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THERE.

ON THE BACKSIDE OF THAT, LET'S GO BACK UP TO THE TOP SLIDE. I REALLY DIDN'T TALK MUCH ABOUT THE SHOPS, BUT THE GREEN IS A LARGER RESTAURANT.

IT'S PROBABLY A 250 TO 300 SEAT RESTAURANT, VERY FAMILY-FOCUSED CENTER.

THE PURPLE SHOPS THE BLUE ON THE BOTTOM LEFT IS THE MARINA WELCOME STATION THAT I HAD COMMUNICATED EARLIER. WE MAY EXPAND THAT INTO A SECOND FLOOR SIMILAR TO THE RESTAURANT CONCEPT.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE ONLY SHOWING A TOTAL COVERED AREA, WHICH IS HOW YOU CALCULATE IT IN THE CITY BY YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

OF WE'RE ALLOWED UP TO 28,000 SQUARE FEET, BUT WE'RE RIGHT NOW AT 25 PLUS.

SO WE WILL PROBABLY USE SOME MORE OF THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE, ASSUMING WE GET THE BLESSING FROM THE STATE AND MOVE FORWARD IN OUR WELCOME CENTER AND THE DISPLAY AREA, BECAUSE YOU NEED MORE AREA FOR DISPLAY OF ARTIFACTS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. YOU'LL ALSO SEE THE 3 OR 4 GRAY AREAS.

THOSE ARE LARGE BATHROOM FACILITIES TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE PUBLIC IN THE SHOPS AND THE WALK-AROUND AND VISITING PUBLIC WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN A RESTAURANT.

RESTAURANT WILL HAVE ITS OWN RESTROOMS, BUT I'M TRYING TO SHOW THE PUBLIC RESTROOMS THAT EXIST FOR THE GATHERING ABILITY FOR PUBLIC THERE. YOU'LL SEE UTILITIES AND SERVICE.

STAIRWELL. THE PURPLE AREAS ARE ALL RETAIL AND/OR GIFT SHOPS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO PRODUCE 5. I THINK THERE'S 4 IN THE UPPER BUILDING, AND THEN THE SOUTH BUILDING IS A SINGLE BUILDING. EACH OF THOSE CAN BE 1 UNIT OR 2 UNITS. WE'VE DESIGNED THEM SO THEY CAN BE SPLIT. OKAY. AND HAVE MORE AND SMALLER GIFT SHOPS OR SMALLER SHOPS TO ACCOMMODATE RETAIL AND GIFT SERVICES IN THE AREA. THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING THERE, RIGHT HERE IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT, YOU'LL SEE AN ELEVATOR SHAFT THERE AND LOADING AND TRASH BELOW. WHEN YOU LOOK WHEN WE SHOW YOU THE ELEVATIONS, THIS WILL MAKE MORE SENSE, BUT DOWNSTAIRS, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO TRY TO CREATE A DROP DUMPSTER SO THAT IT'S HIDDEN AND IT'S INSIDE AND COLLECT THINGS OF THAT NATURE. PLUS, THAT LEVEL IS BELOW THE FLOODPLAIN LEVEL, SO IT HAS TO BE DOWN AND BEHIND THE BARRIER OF THE SEAWALL, AND I'LL SHOW YOU HOW ALL THAT WORKS. ONCE YOU GET IN THE ELEVATOR,

[02:30:01]

AND THAT BOARDWALK HEIGHT IS THE IT CLIMBS THERE TO 7 FEET.

THAT'S WHERE THAT'S 7 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL, AND THAT'S THE SAME HEIGHT THAT WE WILL MARRY TO THE CITY ON THE SOUTH SIDE AND LEAVE OPEN AND FOR FUTURE ATTACHMENT TO THE CITY, OR BECAUSE IT'S CITY PROPERTY NORTH OF US AS WELL. YOU CAN SEE WHAT WE TRIED TO BE ABLE TO DO IS MAKE IT A VERY INVITING, A LITTLE BIT SOFTER FEEL ON THE THE WATERSIDE BECAUSE WE HOPE THIS WILL BE A GATHERING PLACE FOR PEOPLE, FAMILIES, AND GUESTS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

THE ONE ELEMENT THAT WE'VE ASKED FOR, FOR AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE, IS THE CUPOLA HAS SORT OF A LIGHTHOUSE LOOK. AND WHEN WE PRESENTED THAT TO THE WATERFRONT ADVISORY TASK FORCE, OR COMMITTEE, THEY THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST TOP-SHELF STUFF. WE AGREE WE NEEDED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF AN ICON THERE. IT'S NOT LIKE SOMEBODY'S GOING TO LIVE IN THE SPACE OR ANYTHING, BUT IT WILL BE AN UP-TOP OBSERVATION DECK. LET'S SLIDE DOWN TO THE NEXT SLIDE. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DECIDE LET'S GO BACK UP JUST A MINUTE, I'M SORRY. YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OVER THE SOUTH BUILDING ON YOUR RIGHT WING, THERE'S AN OBSERVATION DECK OVER THERE, AND THAT'S WHAT'S BROUGHT SOME QUESTION. THAT ORIGINALLY WAS PLACED THERE TO BE RIGHT AT THE 30-FOOT MARK, BUT WE WERE USING DIFFERENT CALCULATIONS FOR THE ELEVATION, STARTING POINT FOR MEASURING OUR 30 FEET.

SO, BUT AT THIS POINT, WE THINK IT'S JUST ABOUT TOO, TOO DISTRACTIVE TO THE CUPOLA. SO WE WERE WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY WITHDRAW THAT.

AND I, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT REALLY DOING AS MUCH, AND I NEED SPACE TO PUT AIR CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT ON THAT ROOF DECK AS WELL.

SO YOU CAN JUST SEE THE BLACK AND WHITE, THE SKETCH DRAWING, THE BLACK LINE DRAWING. THAT'S WHAT IT'LL LOOK MORE LIKE WITHOUT THAT DECK. SO YOU SO I DON'T HAVE I'M NOT PENETRATING THAT ENVELOPE BECAUSE IT IS SHOWN IN ERROR ON THE DRAWING. LET'S, LET'S SLIDE TO THE RIGHT JUST A LITTLE BIT.

AND CAN YOU BLOW UP THE SCALE THERE? THERE YOU GO. THAT'S GOOD. YES, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE CUPOLA IS GOING TO BE HIGHER. I MEAN, IT IS AN ORNAMENTAL FEATURE, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE IDEA OF IT. IT WILL BE HIGHER THAN THAT. OUR 30-FOOT LIMIT TODAY IS THE 42'4. WE START AT 12'4. RIGHT NOW, THAT'S IN THE STAFF DISCUSSION. ONCE WE GO TO TRC, WE'LL GET A RULING ON THE FREEBOARD HEIGHT. BUT

[02:35:01]

YOU CAN SEE HOW THE HOW IT SORT OF LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A HIP CAPPED OFF EVERYTHING RIGHT AT THAT TOP LEVEL WHERE IT GOES TO 48 FEET. THAT'S TO ALLOW FOR 6 FEET OF A MANSARD TO BE ABLE TO PUT AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEMS, FRESH AIR SYSTEMS, COMMERCIAL EXHAUST HOOD SYSTEMS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND ELEVATOR POP-UP SHAFTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE DOWN ON THE OTHER SIDE. I'VE GOT TO HAVE ROOM TO BE ABLE TO PLACE THAT. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DO IS, AND I KNOW IT IS, IT IS A REQUIREMENT OF THE CITY TO BE ABLE TO SCREEN THOSE THINGS, AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE CHOSEN TO USE THE ROOF ITSELF, USE THE SAME MATERIAL. IT'S JUST, IT'S A MANSARD. IT GIVES YOU THE ARTIFICIAL APPEAL THAT YOU THINK IT'S A FULL RIDGED ROOF, BUT REALLY BEHIND IT, IT'S A CAVITATED AREA TO BE ABLE TO PLACE MECHANICAL EXHAUST SYSTEMS AND VENTS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, WHICH WE HAVE TO HAVE FOR AIR EXCHANGE. THAT'S WHAT HE'S DOING. LET'S SLIDE ON DOWN.

ANOTHER THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ANGLE ASPECT COMING FROM FRONT STREET. WE'RE LOOKING FROM FRONT STREET. YOU HAVE A GOOD SHOT. AND REMEMBER, ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, YOU WANT THAT WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT SECOND OBSERVATION WALKOUT. IT'S JUST GOING TO COME OFF. IT'S TOO DISTRACTIVE, AND THAT MAKES OUR CUPOLA CONCEPT LOOK LIGHTHOUSE LOOK THING GIVES SOME VERY INVITING, AND IT YOU'RE DRAWN TO IT. YOU'RE NOT DISTRACTED BY THE THINGS BETWEEN THE PEDESTRIAN AT GROUND LEVEL LOOKING UP.

WE'VE MADE SEVERAL CHANGES BASED ON STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS HERE TO MAKE SURE WE SHOW METAL, METAL, AND GET MY CANOPIES ON THE OTHER SIDE, ON THE RIVERSIDE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THEY FELT THAT THAT WAS MUCH MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR THE WATERFRONT, AND WE'VE DONE THAT. WE TRIED TO KEEP THE SAME APPEAL AND DECORUM OF THE INSTEAD OF JUST HAVING PILES SIT THERE WITH EMPTY CAVITIES UNDER THEM, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO PROVIDE A VERY CLEAN BUT APPEALING ARCHITECTURAL APPEARANCE. OF EVERYTHING BELOW THAT 14-FOOT LINE. SO YOU CAN SEE THE SLATTED WALLS DOWN HERE. THE IDEA IS TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, AND THEN I'LL HAVE SOME LANDSCAPING AND STUFF IN FRONT OF THAT, BECAUSE YOU'RE VERY LIMITED HERE IN HOW MUCH LANDSCAPING AREA YOU'VE GOT. SO THE IDEA IS WHATEVER YOU HAVE, MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE, BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S GOING TO SEE IT AT GROUND LEVEL.

ONCE I GET YOU INTO THE FACILITY, THEN I'M GOING TO INVITE YOU NOTICE THE ARCHITECTURE THERE.

LET'S SLIDE DOWN A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.

IT'S JUST ANOTHER PEEL SHOT.

THIS IS FROM THE NORTH SIDE, AND REMEMBER, THE OTHER OBSERVATION DECK ON THIS CLOSEST BUILDING WILL NOT BE THERE. NOW, YOU CAN SEE UNDER THE IN THAT BUILDING, VERY IMPORTANT, THAT LOWER LEVEL IS BELOW THE OCCUPIABLE LEVEL, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THAT'S WHERE I'M GONNA HAVE DUMPSTERS, STORAGE, AND THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE, BUT THEY'RE NOT STORED FOR APPEARANCE. THEY'RE COVERED UNDER THE BUILDING, INSIDE, UNDER THE BOX, BASICALLY, AND IT PROTECTS IT. AND I MEAN, WE JUST HAVE TO VENT IT VERY WELL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO I CAN HAVE A ROLLOUT DUMPSTER THAT CAN BE ROLLED OUT AND REELED IN.

CAPTURED AND RECAPTURED. TAKEN AWAY. YOU CAN SEE THE BASICALLY GANGPLANK SYSTEM WHERE IT'S COME, WHERE THE LEVELS GO UP AND DOWN TO THE UPPER LEVEL, DOWN TO THIS,

[02:40:01]

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. JUST ANOTHER WATER SHOT TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA. WE'RE SORT OF LOOKING AT A NORTHWEST ASPECT VIEW.

GIVES YOU AN IDEA. THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN ANGLE. OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T SEE THE CONNECTION ON THE NORTH END BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO CONNECT TO YET, SO WE HAVE TO TREAT IT AS IF IT'S CLOSED OFF. ANOTHER VISUAL FROM THE SOUTH, FROM THE EAST SIDE, LOOKING AT THE FROM THE STREET SIDE.

SLIDE ON DOWN. THIS IS THE DECK SIDE. ACTUALLY, THIS IS WHERE THE WELCOME STATION WOULD BE, THE MARINE WELCOME STATION AND MARINA SHOP. YOU KNOW, SO THERE'LL BE THINGS RETAILED THERE. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THE FIRST FLOOR RESTAURANT ON OUT. OKAY. TO THE NORTH.

THAT'S EXACTLY HOW IT IS. YOU CAN SEE THE MATERIALS WE'RE GOING TO USE, LIKE A SHAKE MATERIAL, SHAKE AND PLANK, SOMETHING THAT'S GOT TO BE VERY DURABLE. I MEAN, THIS IS SALTWATER AIR HERE, SO WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WE DO HERE IS DURABLE, SIMPLE, MAINTAINABLE, AND AT THE SAME TIME STILL OFFERS A LOT OF ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS.

OKAY. THAT WE REALLY LIKE IN THE CITY. WE LIKE THE SUPPRESSED ENTRIES TO THE DOORWAYS WHERE THEY'RE SORT OF DEPRESSED IN, BUT IT'S I THINK THAT'S A NEAT THING ABOUT OUR CITY, ONE OF THE MANY NEAT THINGS. AND WE'RE GOING TO GET AS MUCH GLASS IN THERE AS WE CAN BECAUSE IT'S THE BEAUTY OUTSIDE THAT WE ALL LOVE. SO THAT'S THERE WHERE YOU SEE THE BENCH SEATS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. GENERAL PUBLIC CAN BE WALKING UP AND DOWN THE BOARDWALK AND COME UP TO OUR ELEVATION AND PARTICIPATE. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT RESTRICTED. SO IF YOU'RE NOT AT A RESTAURANT, YOU CAN'T GET THERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SLIDE ON DOWN BETWEEN THE REMEMBER THE PURPLE SHOPS I SHOWED YOU ON THE FOOTPRINT? YES. THIS IS JUST WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE A SORT OF AN ATRIUM FEEL IN THERE AND AIRY AND SPACE BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET OUR CUSTOMER IN THERE, KEEP THEM DRY, KEEP THE SUN OFF WHATEVER TIME IT IS OF THE YEAR. AND WE'VE GOT TO OBVIOUSLY WE'LL WORK ON THE DETAILS OF THAT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S IT CONCEPTUALLY OF WHAT WE WANTED TO CREATE.

NEXT SLIDE, THAT SHOULD BE IT. WHAT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO DO, I'M GONNA HAVE YOU PULL UP ANOTHER THERE SHOULD BE LET ME GET ONE MORE UP. YOU CAN SEE IT THERE, MAYBE. OKAY, SORRY. IT'S OKAY.

SHOULD BE THE ONE THAT I THINK IT'S THE ONE IN THE UPPER RIGHT. YEAH. WHAT I WANTED TO EXPLAIN TO YOU, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE INTEGRATION OF THE RESILIENCY WALL IN OUR PLANNING, AND FORTUNATELY STEVE AND I HAD A MEETING WITH THE CONSULTANT THAT THE CITY HAS HIRED TO ADVISE ON THE CONTINUATION AND THE GROWTH OF THE WATERFRONT NORTH, AND WE HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE OF BEING ABLE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT A WHAT WE HAVE COME TO AGREEMENT WITH, WITH KIMBERLY HORN AND THE CITY THUS FAR IT'S NOT IN FORMAL WRITING YET BUT OUR PROPOSAL IS, AS YOU SEE THIS RED DASHED LINE, SEE WHERE THE YELLOW DOT IS? THAT YELLOW DOT IS ESSENTIALLY WHERE THE CITY'S GOING TO STOP THE WALL. THEY TURN THE WALL BACK, RESILIENCY WALL.

THEY HAVE NO PERMIT OR PLAN TO DO ANYTHING GOING NORTH YET.

THEY HAVE PLANS FOR IT, THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THEY'VE NOT PURSUED THE PERMIT YET. WE ARE GOING TO PURSUE THE PERMIT SUBJECT TO THIS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL THAT WE'RE GOING TO PICK IT UP RIGHT HERE, AND YOU CAN SEE THE RED DASHED LINE, THAT'S GOING TO BE THE RESILIENCY WALL THAT'LL COME ALL THE WAY UP TO 9 FEET. SO IT'S GOING TO BE MORE EARTHEN SIDE UPLAND SIDE, NOT OUT INHIBITING ELEMENTS

[02:45:01]

BUT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE THE RESILIENCY WALL HERE, AND YOU CAN SEE IT GO ALL THE WAY UP TO THE NORTH END WHERE IT CAN CONNECT TO THE CITY'S PROPERTY. WE HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE 10-FOOT TURN BACK THERE, BUT THAT'LL BE DESIGNED ON OUR SITE DESIGN AND APPROVED THROUGH THE CORPS AND THE WATER DISTRICT. OKAY. BUT WHAT THAT DOES, IT ALLOWS US TO USE THAT RESILIENCY WALL AND THE CONCRETE CAP ON IT, PROBABLY 2.5 TO 3 FEET DEEP. THAT'LL ALSO BE THE BACKSIDE FOUNDATION OF OUR BUILDING, WHICH WILL SIT ON, PROTRUDE UP. AND THAT'S AT 9 FEET 1 INCH, I BELIEVE, IS WHAT THE STANDARD IS IN THE CITY FOR THE RESILIENCY WALL. AND THAT WAY, IT'S EASY TO CONTAIN, BEING UPLAND AND CLOSER TO THE STREET, AND IT, IT HAS A HIGHER PROBABILITY OF MEETING PERMIT AND BEING MUCH EASIER PERMITTED, PERMITTED IN THE FUTURE FOR ALL THE PROPERTY OWNERS NORTH, TO INCLUDE THE CITY'S PROPERTY THAT'S RIGHT NEXT DOOR. NOW, SUBJECT TO YOUR QUESTIONS, BEFORE I PUT ANOTHER THING BACK UP, I'LL OPEN THE FLOOR TO QUESTIONS SO I CAN HELP YOU ANSWER THINGS. ALL RIGHT, TAMMY, YOU WANT TO GO FIRST? SURE. SO, RON, THAT IS THE BIGGEST CHANGE THAT I SEE FROM YOUR PRESENTATION TO THE WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD, BECAUSE AT THAT MEETING YOU HAD THE RESILIENCY WALL AT THE BUTLER LINE, I THINK IT WAS.

YES, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. AND THAT'S AND EVERYBODY WAS OKAY WITH THAT, BUT THE REALITY OF IT IS IT BECOMES A COMPLICATED ISSUE NORTH YEAH. AND IT'S ACTUALLY COMPLICATED TO MAKE THE CONNECTION. AND EXPENSIVE. YES, VERY EXPENSIVE.

OKAY, SO THAT WAS THE BIG CHANGE. THIS MAKES IT MUCH, MUCH MORE EFFICIENT FOR PERMITTING, TIMELINESS, AND COST TO EVERYBODY. I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU.

ON THE FRONT, ON YOUR PLAN VIEW, YOU'RE NOTING THE BUTLER LINE, AND THEN IT SAYS WESTWARD OF THAT, IT SAYS MARINA ACCESS WALK. SO THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING INTO YEAH, FROM THIS, FROM THIS PUBLIC MARINA ACCESS WALKWAY, FROM THERE, THERE WILL BE A MARINA WHICH IS UNDER WOULD THIS BE TIED INTO THE POTENTIAL FUTURE MARINA, OR WOULD THIS BE PART OF THIS STRUCTURE NOW? IT'S A PUBLIC ACCESS WAY. IT'S JUST LIKE YOU HAVE TODAY. WHEN YOU WALK UP THE MARINA, YOU'RE ON A BOARDWALK. IT'S THAT SAME BOARDWALK. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS.

THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST ASKING, LIKE, YOU WOULD BUILD THAT? YOU WOULD BUILD THAT AS PART OF THIS? WE HAVE YES, MA'AM, WE HAVE TO HAVE IT. OKAY, I'LL JUST RUN THROUGH MY QUESTIONS. AND MARINA WILL BE WEST, WHICH YOU DON'T HAVE BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SUBMITTED THAT FOR YOU HAVE IT SAYS LOCATION OF FUTURE MARINA. IT IS, AND THAT'S UNDERWAY RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE DRAWING DRAFTING ON THAT NOW, SO IT JUST TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, AND WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THE CITY ON THAT. POTENTIALLY EXPANDING THAT FRONT, THE WELCOME CENTER WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE CALLING IT. YOU SAID RIGHT NOW YOUR WHOLE CAMPUS IS AT 25K SQUARE FEET AND YOU CAN GO UP TO 28. IS THAT 28, YOUR FLOOR AREA RATIO? IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE BUMPING UP TO YOUR MAXIMUM? SLIDE UP THERE IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER.

SEE THAT? EXPAND TO THAT JUST A MINUTE. OKAY.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT 20 28,300 IS WHAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, ENTITLED. HOWEVER, WE'RE NOT USING ALL THAT YET.

BUT IF WHEN WE DO THIS WELCOME CENTER, I NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO IT TO ACCOMMODATE THE ARTIFACTS AND ALL THE DISPLAY THINGS AND THE WELCOME CENTER ITSELF, SO I HAVE ENOUGH SQUARE FOOTAGE.

AND THAT AREA THAT YOU SAW IN BLUE ON THE BOTTOM LEFT, THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE DOWN THERE, IS GOING TO BECOME PART OF 2 STORIES.

AND THE, AND THE CUPOLA WILL JUST SIT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT.

SO YOU MAY SEE A FEW MORE WINDOWS ON THE SECOND LEVEL, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S GOING TO RUN STRAIGHT ACROSS, LINE UP WITH SO YOU'RE NOT EXPANDING UP, YOU'RE EXPANDING OUT? YES, MA'AM. AND WE'LL SEE THAT.

YOU'LL SEE THAT IN FINAL. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE IT'S RIGHT, AND I'M JUST A LOT OF A LOT MORE DESIGN DETAIL SHOULD THAT OCCUR. YEAH, I THINK THOSE ARE

[02:50:02]

OH, ONE OTHER THING. WHEN YOU PRESENTED TO THE WATERFRONT ADVISORY, YOU HAD A SLIDE OF WHAT YOU CALLED MONUMENT SIGNAGE, AND YOU HAD LIKE A PRETTY BIG WELCOME TO HARBOR TOWN OR WHATEVER IT'S GOING TO BE CALLED. YEAH, AMELIA RIVER WHARF IS WHAT IT'S CURRENTLY NAMED. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THAT ANY SIGNAGE FOR THIS WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE HDC GUIDELINES.

YES, MA'AM. IT'S AN INDEPENDENT PERMIT ANYWAY, SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THE SITE TAKEN CARE OF FIRST, AND I'LL THEN I'LL FIND A HOME.

AND THEN THE LAST THING I HAD WAS, I DIDN'T SEE ANY LIGHTING OR FIXTURES ON THIS. I MEAN, IT'S YES, MA'AM, I UNDERSTAND THAT. DARK SKY AND, AND NOT A BIG I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY. I REALIZE SHIELDED LIGHTS BELIEVE ME, I UNDERSTAND COASTAL TURTLE LIGHTING, AND I UNDERSTAND SHIELDED LIGHTS ON THE WATERSIDE. I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THAT. WILL YOU DO A TRAFFIC STUDY? THE CITY DICTATES IT, I WILL. OKAY. I MEAN, RIGHT NOW, THAT CONVERSATION IS PART OF THE TRC PROCESS. SO, BUT WE WILL, THAT OCCURS.

COULD YOU TELL ME THE, THE HEIGHT FROM THE GRADE, EXISTING GRADE, TO THE TOP OF THE ROOF OF WHAT YOU'RE CALLING THE CUPOLA? FROM CURRENT GRADE, IT'S PROBABLY TO THE TOP OF THE THE CUPOLA IS 13, 48, 41 FEET, 42 FEET FROM GRADE.

07, YOU KNOW, CURRENT GRADE, YOUR HIGHEST GRADE LEVELS, I WOULD SAY AVERAGED OUT, YOU KNOW, GREEN SPACE, YOU'RE AT ABOUT 7 FEET. IT GOES FROM 6 FEET TO 7 FEET. SO, OKAY.

ACTUALLY, ALL THE WAY UP TO ABOUT 9 FEET. OUR GRADE WHERE YOU COME INTO THE BUILDING, WE SHOWED IT ON YOUR SITE PLAN. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE ENTRY AT THE STEPS THERE AT ABOUT 7 FEET, AND THEN 2 FEET LATER YOU'RE STEPPING ON THAT RESILIENCY WALL, AND THEN IT'S CONTINUING ON UP UNTIL YOU'RE AT 14 FEET. SO THAT 7 FEET IS ABOVE GRADE? YES, MA'AM. AND THEN WE GET THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

IT'S GREEN. THERE'S GREEN GRASS OUT THERE AT 7 BASE FLOOD IS 12'4, THEN WE HAVE YOUR 30, AND THEN I SEE WHAT IS IT 19 FEET TO THE TOP. SO I CAME UP WITH 61 FEET 4 INCHES TO THE TOP OF THAT ROOF. WHATEVER THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN 12 AND 7 IS 5 FEET. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. OKAY. SO IT'S NOT 40 YOU'RE, YOU'RE COUNTING 48 PLUS 7. THAT'S THE 13, RIGHT? I GOT THAT. THAT'S 51 FEET. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS YOU'RE YOU GOT TO GIVE BACK 7 FEET BECAUSE I'M STARTING AT GRADE AT 7 FEET, NOT SEA LEVEL. SO ENTRY LEVEL I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE NUMBER THOUGH.

ENTRY LEVEL IS WHERE THE GRASS IS NOW. YES, MA'AM. PART OF IT'S UP TO 7 TO 9. I THINK WE THERE'S SOME ELEMENTS OUT THERE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THAT, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, 7 FEET IS WHERE YOU WILL COME OFF OF SIDEWALKS FROM THE PARKING LOT AND START TO ENTER INTO THE STRUCTURE BY GOING UP THE STEP. AND THEN BASE FLOOD ELEVATION IS 12 FOOT 4 ABOVE THAT. SO WE'RE ADDING IS THE IS THE FROM THE 7 FEET TO THE BASE FLOOD ELEVATION OF 12 FOOT 4 IS THAT CONCRETE PILES? IS THAT 5 BUT IS THAT 5 FEET, OR IS IT FROM 7 FEET IT GOES UP ANOTHER 12 FOOT 4? IT GOES UP TO THE REQUIRED CLEARANCE OF THE CODE. I, I CAN ENTER THE BUILDING AT 14.5. IT'S 5 MORE FEET. SO YEAH, 5 FEET TO 12, DEPENDING ON YEAH, SO WE'RE PUTTING ANOTHER 2 FEET TO WE'RE SOMEWHERE OVER 50 FEET, EASILY OVER 50 FEET IN HEIGHT FOR THIS. YES, MA'AM.

IT SHOULD BE 51 FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 61 MINUS 7. WHAT'S 61 MINUS 7? 54 FEET.

54 FEET. BUT THAT'S NOT COUNTING THE CUPOLA. THAT'S COUNTING THE CUPOLA. WHICH IS TO THE ROOF. THE CUPOLA IS ABOUT 13 PLUS 6, 19 FEET ABOVE YOUR 30-FOOT. I THINK I CAN HELP BREAK THIS DOWN A LITTLE BIT. SO IN THE CRA ON THIS LOT, HEIGHT IS MEASURED FROM THE BASE FLOOD ELEVATION.

SO WE'RE AT THAT 30 FEET ABOVE BASE FLOOD ELEVATION WHEN WE'RE AT THIS MEASUREMENT HERE,

[02:55:01]

YEAH, BRETT'S HAS ONE EXCEPT THEIR BUILDING'S ONLY ONE STORY. AND SO WE WOULD, IN CONCEPT, TAKE THE SAME THING, JUST MAKE IT OH, IT WAS FROM EARLIER. OH, SORRY, I JUST NOTICED IT. JUST FOR THE HEIGHT THOUGH, WILL THE CUPOLA BE OCCUPIABLE? I MEAN, WILL YOU BE ABLE TO GO UP IN IT? YOU CAN GO UP AND LOOK OUT. YES, YOU COULD. I HAVE TO FIRE TREAT IT BECAUSE OF THAT, BUT IT'S NOT THERE'S NOT A BUSINESS GOING TO RUN FROM IT OR ANYTHING. I THOUGHT IT SAID PRIVATE OFFICES ON THE PLAN. THAT'S ON THE SECOND FLOOR THERE IS.

UNDER THE CUPOLA, THERE ARE IT IS ENOUGH SPACE THERE FOR A PRIVATE OFFICE SPACE.

YES, MA'AM. AND THEN THE PUBLIC, THE PUBLIC CAN GO UP THERE, OR JUST THE PRIVATE OFFICE PEOPLE? FROM AN OUTSIDE, OUTSIDE ACCESS, SOMEONE COULD GO TO THE CUPOLA. I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S LOCKED OFF, SO SOMEBODY'D HAVE TO TAKE YOU THERE, BUT IT'S NOT YOU'RE NOT DOING ANY RETAIL SALES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THE RAILING AROUND IT WAS THAT IS THAT PUBLIC ACCESS, LIKE AN OBSERVATION AREA? I HAVE TO DO THAT. I HAVE TO HAVE THE RAIL AROUND IT FOR LIABILITY CODE. OKAY, BUT IT'S NOT THAT'S THE PART THAT'S LOCKED OFF? YES, SIR. SO I WENT IN AND I LOOKED AT THE LDC'S DEFINITION OF TOP ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES.

LET ME START WITH I THINK THE CUPOLA IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR DRIVING THE IMAGE OF THIS COMPLEX. YES, SIR, IT IS. SO I, ARCHITECTURALLY, I THINK IT FITS, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO KIND OF MARK, MARK YOUR PROJECT, AND IT GIVES IT AN IDENTITY.

SO I GOT NO ISSUES WITH STATE VISITOR CENTER GUY AGREES WITH YOU TOO, THE DIRECTOR. HE THINKS IT'S FANTASTIC.

BUT WHEN I CHECKED THE LDC, IT CLEARLY SAYS IN THE DEFINITION OF A ROOFTOP ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE, IT HAS TO BE UNINHABITABLE AND NON-CONDITIONED. RIGHT. SO IT, IT PROBABLY WOULD BE EASIER FOR THIS BOARD TO SAY OKAY TO IT IF IT WAS MAYBE OPEN OR SOMETHING SO THAT YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE GLASS IN THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A GLASS SPACE WITH NO HEATING AND COOLING IN IT. THAT WOULD BE PRETTY DEVASTATING, BUT THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT. I'LL LOOK AT IT IF THERE'S NO WAY TO THAT WOULD BE TOUGH NOT TO BLOW SOME FRESH AIR IN IT BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THAT'S A WAY YOU KEEP POSITIVE AIR IN IT TO KEEP DETERIORATION FROM BUT ANYWAY, WELL, WE'LL LOOK AT IT. IF I CAN'T DO IT, AND I'LL WHEN I COME BACK FOR FINAL, IT MAY BE DIFFERENT.

YEAH, IT'LL BE IN CONCEPT. SO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THAT.

SO, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY YES TO THE CUPOLA.

YES, SIR. BUT WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT FITS THE DEFINITION OF WHAT'S ALLOWABLE, AND I THINK IF IT BECOMES ENCLOSED AND CONDITIONED THEN IT DOESN'T FIT THE DESCRIPTION OF A ROOFTOP ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE.

OKAY. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS THE LET'S CALL IT THE MAIN ROOF, WHICH YOU'RE DESCRIBING AS IT'S THERE TO HOUSE MECHANICALS. NOW THERE IS A MAIN ROOF. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS I CUT THE BACKSIDE OFF OF IT TO CONVERT IT TO A MANSARD.

BUT ANYWAY, GO AHEAD. THAT THING GOES UP TO 40 48 48 FOOT 4. YES, SIR. AND I BELIEVE THE INTENT OF LIMITING THE HEIGHT IN THIS SECTION TO 30 FEET ABOVE BASE FLOOD IS SO THAT THE NEXT SECTION BEHIND HAS A HIGHER HEIGHT AT LIKE 45 OR SOMETHING. IT HAS 45 FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACKS. SO THAT THEN YOU CAN STILL GET SOME VIEWS FROM THE BUILDINGS BEHIND. SO I'M THE WAY THAT IN THE DESIGN ALL THESE GABLE ENDS ARE TIED IN, THEY ALSO GO UP

[03:00:05]

MAYBE, IF IT'S NOT ON A STAND. COMMERCIAL MECHANICALS ARE NO JOKE.

EVERYTHING I HAVE UP THERE IS GONNA BE 5.5 AND 6 FOOT TALL.

AND I'M, YOU KNOW, WE EVEN DO THINGS LIKE PUT UNITS ON THEIR SIDE AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU CAN DO WITHOUT COMPROMISING THE BEARINGS AND ALL THE EXPENSE OF A QUARTER MILLION DOLLAR UNIT TIMES 4 OR 3. SO THERE'S A LOT TO PROTECT, BUT YOU'VE THE RULE IS I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCREEN IT. AND EVERY TIME I'VE NOT SCREENED SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE ASKED ME NOT TO SCREEN, WE GET COMPLAINTS GALORE. I'M NOT SUGGESTING YOU DON'T SCREEN IT.

YEAH, AND THAT IS A CODE REQUIREMENT. YOU'RE LAYING DOWN CODE. WHAT I'M TRYING TO POINT OUT IS THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR 6 FEET MORE HEIGHT.

TO SCREEN YOUR AC UNITS. YES, SIR. FOR EXAMPLE, THE AREA YOU'RE THE ZONE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT INFILLING WITH POTENTIALLY MORE, WELCOME CENTER SPACE, RIGHT? THOSE THINGS COULD GO THERE, AND THEY'RE IN THE ON THE SECOND FLOOR INSTEAD OF ON TOP OF THE SECOND FLOOR.

THERE YOU HAVE OPTIONS YOU CAN LOCATE THIS IN DIFFERENT AREAS AND NOT ASK US FOR 6 ADDITIONAL FEET OF HEIGHT. OKAY, WELL, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY. A RESTAURANT AND AN EXHAUST SYSTEM ON A RESTAURANT DOESN'T GO UP AND COME BACK DOWN. I MEAN, THERE ARE SPECIALIZED SYSTEMS YOU COULD PROBABLY DO THAT ON A HIGH-RISE, BUT THEY EXIT THE BUILDING SOONER AND WE JUST DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF URBAN ENVIRONMENT HERE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND BUILD BUILDINGS THAT WAY AND SKYJACK THEM UP AND PUT THEM 9 FEET ABOVE THE HIGHEST ELEVATION.

IN THIS CASE, WE WOULD STILL HAVE TO EXHAUST AWAY FROM THINGS, BUT IT WOULD YOU SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISED TO KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO ON THAT ROOF AND ALL THE AIR CONDITIONING DUCT SYSTEM GETS ELEVATED UP THERE, AND I HAVE TO PUSH IT DOWN.

SO CAN YOU DO 2 OF THESE? I APPRECIATE WE'D ALL LIKE IT TO BE IF I DON'T HAVE TO BUILD A HIGHER ROOF, IT JUST SAVES US MONEY.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO KEEP THEM BELOW ABOUT 5.5 FEET, AND 6 FOOT'S REALLY RIGHT ON THE LIMIT OF WHERE IT WOULD BE, BECAUSE I GOT TO GET IT 6 INCHES TO A FOOT OFF THE DECK.

I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS YOU'RE, YOU'RE MAKING A CASE THAT THE ONLY PLACE TO PUT THEM IS ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT, AND I'M TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE AREA YOU CAN PUT IT AND BE BELOW THE HEIGHT LIMIT, BECAUSE THAT'S A BIG ASK OF THIS BOARD TO ALLOW ALMOST THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF YOUR BUILDING TO GO ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT. AND BLOCK. WELL, I'M ONLY PUTTING THE MECHANICAL SCREENING THERE.

THAT'S ALL I'M DOING. IF I DIDN'T HAVE MECHANICAL SCREENING THERE, I COULDN'T PUT IT THERE BY YOUR RULES, AND THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO DO.

THAT'S NOT MY RULES. I MEAN, THE CITY'S RULES. LDC. I'M SORRY, THE LDC RULES. YEAH. SO I HAVE TO OBEY THAT. BUT IT IS ALSO THESE GABLES THAT ARE THAT'S RIGHT. SHOOTING BACK INTO IT. THE DOGHOUSE GATE.

THE DOGHOUSE DORMER PLUS THE GABLES, THE FULL-SIZE GABLES ARE PENETRATING THAT. YES, MA'AM. AND WE DO THAT TO CREATE SOME ARCHITECTURAL APPEAL. I MEAN, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO ONE OF THOSE FLAT, BLAND BUT THERE'S STILL A HEIGHT LIMIT THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. AND I JUST, I HESITATE BEING I LIKE THE DESIGN. I DON'T DISLIKE THE DESIGN. BUT YOU'RE ASKING FOR 6 ADDITIONAL FEET THE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING, AND IT WILL BE THE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING IF YOU INFILL THAT WELCOME CENTER AREA AT THE SECOND FLOOR.

FOR SURE. IT'S GOING TO BE THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR 6 ADDITIONAL FEET ON WHAT'S A REALLY BIG BUILDING. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF THE BOARD FEELS ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT ASK

[03:05:01]

JIM, I CAN WEIGH IN ON OR GIVE SOME OPINION HERE AS WELL. IT I, I THINK THIS BUILDING, AND THIS MAY BE MORE BOARD DISCUSSION, THIS BUILDING REALLY IS GOING TO DEFINE DEFINE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN FUTURE DEVELOPMENT IN THE AT THE WATERFRONT.

ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. AND, AND IT'S SO AND IT'S SO IT'S GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANT, AND IT'S GOING TO BE AND IT'S IMPORTANT. AND ALTHOUGH I IF I DON'T LOOK AT THE DIMENSIONS, I DON'T MIND THE, THE STYLE.

BUT WHEN I START LOOKING AT THE DIMENSIONS AND THE SCALE, IT, IT, IT ACTUALLY CONCERNS ME THAT THIS IS MASSIVE. AND AND I, I UNDERSTAND CONCEPTUALLY WHY YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH THE ROOF AND HOW YOU'RE CONCEALING THE MECHANICAL UNITS AND ALL OF THAT. I ARCHITECTURALLY AND THEN DESIGN ENGINEERING-WISE, I UNDERSTAND ALL OF IT FULLY.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THIS, THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO APPEAR MASSIVE WHERE EVERYONE IN THIS COMMUNITY IS USED TO LOOKING AT AN OPEN GRASSY FIELD AND, AND WATER. AND NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT'S 54, I THINK 54 FEET ABOVE WHAT'S EXISTING NOW. AND IT IS GOING TO SEEM MASSIVE ON THIS, ON THIS LOT. AND, AND I'M CONCERNED WITH THE I AM ALSO CONCERNED WITH THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE POTENTIALLY IN THERE WITH, I THINK, ABOUT 500 PEOPLE IN THE 2 RESTAURANTS OR SOME SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW. SO JUST, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE DOWN HERE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COMMUNITY ACTUALLY SUPPORTS THAT AS WELL. AND I KNOW THERE'S NOT SPECIFICALLY PARKING REQUIREMENTS, BUT THERE'S MY CONCERN OVERALL IS THAT THIS BUILDING IS JUST TOO BIG FOR THE FERNANDINA BEACH WATERFRONT, AND SOMEHOW IT DOES NEED TO COME DOWN IN SCALE. AND, AND I THINK THAT WHAT JIM'S SAYING ABOUT OTHER OPTIONS FOR MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT HELPS BRING THE WHOLE BUILDING DOWN IN SCALE A BIT. THAT'S MY FIRST CONCERN. THE OTHER CONCERN IS THAT IF THE MARINE WELCOME CENTER, IF THAT NEEDS TO BE APPROVED BY THE STATE, IF IT DIDN'T GET APPROVED, THEN WHAT POTENTIALLY MOVES INTO THIS SPACE, OR DOES IT ALL LIKE, DOES IT GO BACK TO WE WOULD TRY TO CREATE FIRST OF ALL, 28,000 SQUARE FEET IS YOU HAVE TO MAKE THIS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE.

UNDERSTOOD. YEAH. WHEREAS A LOT THAT GOES BELOW THE DECK, THAT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. I UNDERSTAND, YEAH.

AND YOU GOT TO GENERATE A RETURN TO DO THAT. AND GUESS WHAT? YOU NEED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FLOOR AREA RATIO, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE COVERED WALKWAYS, EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT RENTING THAT TO ANYBODY, I'M COVERED.

SO THEREFORE, THAT'S CONSUMING A LOT OF THAT FLOOR AREA RATIO THAT I'M NOT GOING TO COLLECT MONEY FOR IN RENT. SO THE IDEA IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE DO USE OR WHAT WE DO COVER, IT'S EFFICIENT AND IT SUPPORTS GOOD CUSTOMER ENVIRONMENT SO CUSTOMERS WILL STAY AND PARTICIPATE AND CREATE SOME GATHERING. WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME THERE AND NOT AND WE WANT THEM TO COME BACK, NOT JUST ONCE. WE WANT PEOPLE TO VISIT THERE WHO LIVE LOCAL, AND WE WANT THEM THERE MORE OFTEN THAN ONCE A WEEK IF WE COULD. BUT THE REALITY OF IT IS THE ECONOMICS OF THAT ARE WHAT MAKE IT FEASIBLE, AND YOU'LL SEE WE'RE PAYING FOR A LOT OF THINGS THAT AREN'T GOING TO BE READY FOR ANYBODY INFRASTRUCTURE-WISE, WE'RE DOING THAT TO GET IN FRONT OF IT. I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO. I HAVE NO CLUE, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'VE GOT THE SIZE OR THE AREA TO WORK WITH. WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE. WE HAVE A BIG ENOUGH PARCEL THAT GIVES US ENOUGH SPACE. YEAH. AND STILL MEET ALL THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND MEET ALL OF YOUR ENTITLEMENT REQUIREMENTS. THE WHATEVER WE CALL IT, A CUPOLA, IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY A CUPOLA.

IT'S ACTUALLY AN OBSERVATION DECK. BUILD DECK. BUT AS AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT, IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO THE CITY.

IT'LL BE A POSTCARD KIND OF THING. IT'S JUST A LOT OF GENUINE GOODNESS FROM IT. I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO SERVE A LOT OF PEOPLE. JUST GO TO THAT POINT AND TURN RIGHT OR TURN LEFT, YOU KNOW, THOSE KIND OF RECOGNITION ICONS. ASIDE

[03:10:01]

AND WE THIS HAS BEEN A DREAM OF THE SIMMONS FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO OFFER SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND RECREATE THIS WELCOME CENTER IDEA, AND I THINK IT'S VERY GRACIOUS.

SO IN DOING THAT, I THINK IT OFFERS A IT'S THE JUST ANOTHER ATTRACTIVE ELEMENT OF FERNANDINA BEACH THAT MAKES ANOTHER REASON TO WANT TO COME HERE, BECAUSE WHEN THAT PERSON RETURNS TO AMELIA ISLAND AND COMES TO FERNANDINA BEACH, GO TO THE PLACE ON THE WATER. AND WE WANT TO BE PART OF THAT PLACE. NOW, I KNOW THERE ARE BIGGER PARCELS SOUTH OF US, AND IF YOU DON'T YOU WILL SEE BUILDINGS THAT HAVE TO ACHIEVE THIS.

TO GET THEIR RETURN. I MEAN, THERE'S JUST NO WAY NOT TO.

I'VE DONE OCEANFRONT STUFF A LOT. LET'S TALK ABOUT HEIGHT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE. SURE.

SO I KNOW YOU'VE GOT THE BASE FLOOD AT 12'4, BUT THEN FERNANDINA ALSO HAS A FREEBOARD HEIGHT, WHICH IS ANOTHER 2 FEET. AND I THINK FOR FEMA YOU NEED ANOTHER 0.4.

WE DO HAVE THAT, AND THAT'S SHOWN ON THERE. AND I'M JUST SO I'M JUST CURIOUS THAT IF IT'S 30 FEET FROM BASE FLOOD, YOU KNOW, WHY, WHY IS IT NOT 30 FEET FROM WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO LIMIT YOUR HABITABLE SPACE? WHAT, FROM FREEBOARD? RIGHT.

BECAUSE THE CODE IS BFE. I KNOW THAT. YEAH, I'M JUST THAT'S WHY. I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT IS, BUT THAT'S WHAT I THINK YOUR TRC IS GOING TO RESOLVE THAT.

THEY'RE THAT QUESTIONS ALREADY OUT THERE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE MY FIRST OCCUPIABLE LEVEL HAS TO BE. I HAVE TO START AT THE 14-4, AND IT'S NOT 12-4. THANK YOU.

SO ALL I'M ASKING I DON'T THINK SO IF WE ARE DOWN THERE, I MEAN, WHAT WE'VE EVEN SUBMITTED TODAY, ENTITLEMENT PUTS US UP MUCH HIGHER THAN THAT.

BUT I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF FEET HIGHER POTENTIALLY.

WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET THE CONCEPT THROUGH SO THAT WE CAN GET STARTED HERE, BECAUSE THESE ARE, THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE FEAR AND CONTEMPLATE, AND WHY IT'S HARD TO BE THE FIRST ONE WALK OUT THERE AND SAY, WELL, WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU SOMETHING, YOU CAN'T TELL US WHAT YOU YOU REALLY WANT, BUT IN THE REAL ECONOMY, IN THE REAL WORLD, WE'VE GOT TO COME OUT AND PRESENT SOMETHING.

IT'S A NICE DESIGN, BUT IT IS THE FIRST ONE, AND IT'S COMING IN RIGHT OFF THE BAT ASKING FOR QUITE AN EXTRA CONSIDERATION AS FAR AS HEIGHT GOES. DO YOU THINK IT'S AN EXTRA CONSIDERATION? I DIDN'T PERCEIVE IT THAT WAY.

THAT HOME IS 6 FEET ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT. I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE CUPOLA.

I THAT, THAT I THINK IS APPROPRIATE, AND I THINK WE COULD GET TO A DEFINITION. SURE. AND A DESIGN OF IT SO IT WOULD MEET THE LDC AND BE ALLOWED TO GO UP TO THE HEIGHT THAT IT'S AT. SO IN MY MIND, THE CUPOLA REQUIRES A LITTLE MORE DESIGN ON YOUR END TO MAKE IT REALLY ADHERE TO AND WE'RE NOT THERE FINALLY YET. THIS IS JUST IT'S, IT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. KIND OF LOOKING AT, BUT I THINK I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS JUST A LITTLE BIT AND TALK ABOUT THE 15-FOOT VIEW CORRIDORS, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOUR GANGWAYS, ESPECIALLY ON THE NORTH END MIA, IF YOU COULD PULL UP THE FLOOR PLAN FOR THE FIRST FLOOR AND LOOK AT THE NORTH END THE GANGWAYS ARE 100% WITHIN THAT YES, SIR. AND LET'S TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU, AS YOU'VE ARTICULATED, GROUND IS ABOUT 7. THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE QUITE A BIT IN YOUR VIEW. IN MY MIND, THERE'S A, THERE'S KIND OF A GIVE AND TAKE WITH THOSE BECAUSE THOSE GANGWAYS ARE GIVING YOU A CONNECTION FOR THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL THESE WALKWAYS.

SO IN MY MIND, THAT'S A BIT OF A MITIGATING FACTOR, BUT I WANT TO BRING IT UP SO THAT MY FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS CAN MAYBE CHIME IN ON THEIR THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW THAT AFFECTS THAT VIEW CORRIDOR, BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 15 FEET THAT YOU CAN SEE TO THE SKY, THAT YOU CAN SEE OUT TO THE WATER. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. IS IT AND IS IT GROUND FROM THE, THE BFE, OR IS IT FROM I THINK IT DOESN'T SAY.

GREED. FROM GREED? YEAH. OH YEAH, I DON'T YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT SAYS THAT. I

[03:15:01]

THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, YEAH, THERE'S A CONNECTION HERE, AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A WONDERFUL ADDITION TO THE RIVERFRONT, BUT IT WELL, I COULD DO A SIDEWALK ALL THE WAY BACK AND MAKE EVERYBODY COME ALL THE WAY IN. WE JUST THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A LOT MORE INVITING. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND IT. I JUST IT IS JUST IT'S, IT'S IN THE VIEW CORRIDOR, AND IT'S THE SCALE IS JUST MASSIVE. I THINK THERE'S SOME DESIGN OPTIONS WITHOUT ACTUALLY DESIGNING IT WHERE YOU COULD MAKE IT YOU COULD CUT DOWN ON SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE SOUTH END, IT'S REALLY NOT IN A VIEW CORRIDOR. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE VIEW CORRIDOR.

THE VIEW CORRIDOR IS SOUTH OF THE SOUTH BUILDING.

ON THE NORTH END, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. YES, THE CLIMB, THE WALKWAY FROM THE BOARDWALK TO GET UP TO THIS PROPERTY CLIMBS UP AND COMES IN. AND WHO KNOWS, THERE'S A WAY I COULD PROBABLY JUST MAKE THAT GO AWAY. I DON'T THINK IT'S WISE, BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S SOMETHING WE, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO PAY FOR. RIGHT. WE'D JUST AS SOON NOT DO IT. I WON'T PUT IT ON THE NORTH END. I, I WOULD RATHER HAVE IT THERE BECAUSE I JUST THINK THE PUBLIC WILL BE BETTER SERVED BY IT BEING THERE BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO CONNECT TO. I WOULD IMAGINE FOR SAFETY YOU'D NEED SOME SORT OF DOUBLE ACCESS. YEAH, I HAVE THAT. YEAH, I HAVE THAT ON MY COMPLEX. YEAH, SO I HAVE THAT ON IT. LIFE SAFETY, I'M FINE. I THINK IT'S A VALUABLE FEATURE ON THE NORTH END. THE ONE THING THAT I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH IS THAT THE BUILDING, THE BUILDING AS YOU CURRENTLY HAVE IT DESIGNED, IS WHAT'S DICTATING THAT IT GOES INTO THE VIEW CORRIDOR.

MM-HMM. I DON'T AGREE THAT IT CAN'T BE ACCOMMODATED BY REDUCING THE SIZE OF THE MAIN BUILDING TO ACCOMMODATE THAT GANGWAY OUTSIDE OF THE VIEW CORRIDOR.

BELIEVE ME, I CAN TAKE IT OUT OF THE VIEW CORRIDOR. I HAD A PLAN THAT THERE WAS NOTHING ON THAT NORTH END. I JUST FELT THAT EXTENDED YOUR BOARDWALK.

YOU SAY IT, IF YOU IF THAT'S THE RULING AND THE STAFF SAYS THAT'S WHAT'S REQUIRED, I'LL PULL IT BACK SO IT HAS THE 15 FEET. I CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN IN A BLINK OF AN EYE. I THINK, I THINK WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS MAINTAINING THAT VIEW CORRIDOR, BECAUSE THAT'S A TO ME, THAT'S A PRETTY IMPORTANT PIECE, BECAUSE THAT GIVES VISUAL CONNECTION FOR THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY OUT TO THE WATER. YES, SIR, I UNDERSTAND. KNOWING THAT, OF COURSE, THAT THE CITY OWNS THE NORTH PROPERTY AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAYBE PUT A PIER THERE FISHING PIER OR NOTHING. I DON'T KNOW. I WILL IF THAT'S ALL IT TAKES TO GET US OVER THIS HURDLE, I'LL MAKE I'LL FIND ANOTHER WAY TO GET PEOPLE THROUGH AND OUT, AND I'LL PULL IT BACK, AND I'LL PULL MY NORTHERN CRADLE. I'LL PULL ALL OF THAT BACK TO THE SOUTH TO GET IT INSIDE THE 15-FOOT LINE. I THINK I THINK THAT PROBABLY WOULD I I HATE TO LOSE THE PUBLIC CONNECTION UP TO YOUR BALCONIES, BUT I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO HONOR THAT VIEW CORRIDOR. I DON'T REALLY THE WAY I READ IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE MUCH FLEXIBILITY THERE, THAT, THAT REALLY NEEDS TO STAY OPEN. OKAY, I GUESS WE ALL THE REST OF US MISSED THAT.

I DIDN'T CATCH THAT. I FIGURED A WALKWAY WOULDN'T BE THAT BAD, BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT'S READ.

YEAH, THAT'S FINE. THE WALKWAY IS GOING TO BE A SOLID ELEMENT, SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM GROUND LEVEL AND YOU SEE THAT RAMP GOING UP SURE, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE IT'S A GANGWAY. IT'S UP, UP, AND UP, AND UP, BACK UP.

YEAH, I AGREE. THEY HAVE A GLASS BRIDGE IN VENICE, BUT YOU STILL CAN'T SEE THROUGH IT. I GET IT. FOR ME, IT'D BE THAT THE VIEW CORRIDOR ON AND THE OVERALL BUILDING HEIGHT. THE CUPOLA, I THINK, IS WONDERFUL. I THINK IT JUST NEEDS A LITTLE WORK TO FIT WITHIN THE LDC VERBIAGE TO BE APPROVABLE. THOSE WOULD BE MY, MY 2 ASKS ON THIS. SO WE THINK WE HAVE SO WE THINK WE CAN GIVE YOU A SOLUTION ON THE NORTHERN RAMP. I CAN PULL THAT INSIDE. THERE'S ANOTHER WAY

[03:20:05]

THE IT'LL BE AT THE 15-FOOT MARK, AND THAT'S WHERE I WON'T PENETRATE NORTH OF THAT. YEAH, HAVE MY WORD ON THAT. BUT WHEN I GET TO THE GROUND A SIDEWALK CAN GO, RIGHT? I THINK SO. I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE. REMAIN OPEN TO THE SKY SHALL NOT INCLUDE ANY PARKING AREAS, ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, OR MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT. SO BASICALLY FROM THE GROUND TO THE SKY, NOTHING IN IT. GOT IT. RAMPS, SIDEWALKS I MEAN, SIDEWALK IS OKAY, NO GANGWAY, NO RAMP. AND I THINK TO VERONICA'S POINT, POINT, YOU KNOW, THE SCALE OF THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST MAJOR DEVELOPMENT ON THE WATERFRONT THAT WE'RE SEEING. IT'S GOING TO BE A MASSIVE CHANGE FROM WHAT EVERYBODY IS USED TO DOWN THERE. AND I KNOW WHEN YOU WENT BEFORE THE WAB, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION OF TRYING TO ALLEVIATE THE APPEARANCE OF THAT MONOLITHIC FRONT. AND I BELIEVE I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS JIRAN OR IF IT WAS STEVE THAT MENTIONED THAT YOU WERE GOING TO ADD SOME MORE GABLES OR SOME MORE ARTICULATION INTO THE FRONT. YOU KNOW, WHEN I, WHEN I LOOK AT OUR PURVIEW OF SCALE, THAT'S OUR NUMBER ONE THING FOR CRA AND HDC. IT'S THE HEIGHT AND THE WIDTH OF NEW CONSTRUCTION BUILDINGS.

AND WHILE WE DON'T HAVE A TON ON THE WATERFRONT TO LOOK AT IN I KNOW YOU SAID FROM A VISIONING STANDPOINT YOU WENT YOU'RE TRYING TO HEARKEN BACK TO LIKE FISHING VILLAGES OR THE INDUSTRIAL VERNACULAR. I DON'T SEE INDUSTRIAL VERNACULAR ON THIS. I SEE, YOU KNOW, A FANCY RESTAURANT. I SEE A FLOATING MALL. I SEE SOMETHING NOT COOK AND COOK'S, NOT DAVID COOK'S, NOT, NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT JACO'S PROPERTY NOW THAT'S UP FOR SALE. YEAH.

FOR SALE. SO THERE'S, THERE'S A BIG PARCEL THAT, THAT SOMETHING COULD BE DEVELOPED ON. SO THAT'S THE THING THAT KIND OF GIVES ME PAUSE WITH THIS SCALE. AND I GET THE ECONOMY OF SCALE OF WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. WHAT I THINK ABOUT TOO IS LONG TERM, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT POSTERITY, WHO'S MAINTAINING ALL OF THESE ELEMENTS THAT ARE JUST GOING TO TAKE A BEATING? YOU KNOW, WILL YOU GUYS I ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE? IS THIS GOING TO LOOK GOOD? AND WHAT HAPPENS IN 10, 5, 25, 30, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YEARS, WHEN IT'S NOT VIABLE? DO WE HAVE A PLAN B OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS MASSIVE STRUCTURE THAT'S ON THE WATERFRONT? I WOULD SAY THAT A PRIVATE OWNER HAS A HIGHER BEHAVIORAL THRESHOLD OF MAINTENANCE OF A FACILITY THAN WE HAD AT BRETT'S. I JUST LOOK AT IT AND SAY, I KNOW THERE'S DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES TO DO THAT. THEREFORE, WE'RE TRYING TO CONSTRUCT IT IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS IT, ALLOWS IT TO BE MORE MAINTAINABLE. AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO START AT A HIGHER ELEVATION THAN OTHER PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO START. I CAN'T CREATE THAT.

THAT'S THE LAW THAT CREATES THAT REQUIREMENT. YOU GAVE ME YOU'RE BEING SQUEEZED FROM ALL ENDS. BOTH ENDS, AND I'M BEING SQUEEZED FROM THE SIDE TOO. I'M OKAY, I GET THE SIDES GAME, AND I GET THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM. THAT DEFINES MY SCALE. I THINK THAT'S HOW YOU GO TO WHEN YOU GO TO PLANNING SCHOOL, THAT'S WHAT YOU LEARN, IS WHEN YOU CREATE THOSE, YOU CREATE SCALING BY TELLING ME THOSE THINGS, AND I'M TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THAT. TO ADD TO TOMMY'S POINT, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP IN A COMMUNITY WHERE I WATCHED SHOPPING MALLS GET BUILT AND THEN SHUT DOWN OR BECOME ABANDONED AND NOT LOOK SO GOOD AFTER WHATEVER, HOW MANY YEARS. AND MY CONCERN IS THAT THIS IS WHAT THIS IS BECOMING, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS INTERIOR CORRIDOR.

IT IS, IT'S A RESTAURANT AND A SHOPPING MALL. YEAH. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GET THAT MUCH SAY ON THE, FUNCTION.

RIGHT, RIGHT. ON THE USE.

AGREED. RIGHT, AND UNDER THE CODE, 8.010101, CHAIR, D, THE 1 THROUGH 12 CRITERIA, I THINK ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HAS TALKED ABOUT NUMBER 1 IS SCALE, INCLUDING HEIGHT AND WIDTH, YOU KNOW, AND THEN SETBACKS, ORIENTATION, SITE COVERAGE. I DON'T SEE ANY IN THE 12 OF USE. THE ROOF FORMS ARE ON THERE, HORIZONTAL, VERTICAL. YOU KNOW, YOU DO HAVE 12 VERY CLEAR CRITERIA TO EVALUATE IT FROM, AND, AND IT HAS BEEN SAID SCALE, INCLUDING HEIGHT AND

[03:25:02]

SO DO YOU GUYS DOES ANYONE ELSE ON THE BOARD HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR MR. FLICK? MINE WAS ABOUT ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY.

YOU'RE GETTING READY TO BUILD RIGHT ON THE, ON THE WATER. YES, MA'AM. SO IS THERE A PLAN FOR AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY TO BE DONE? I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ONE REQUIRED, AND I HAVEN'T BEEN TASKED TO PROVIDE ONE. OKAY. IF THERE'S ONE REQUIRED BY THE ORDINANCE OR LAW, I WOULD DO THAT IN A HEARTBEAT. JUST NOT AWARE THAT THERE WAS ONE REQUIRED. I BELIEVE IN FLORIDA THAT WHENEVER YOU DO ANYTHING NEW, THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY DONE.

AND BASED UPON WHAT WE KNOW IN OUR HISTORY OF FERNANDINA, AND BEING WHERE IT IS, THINK ABOUT LIKE WITH MIAMI, WE WENT IN AND THEY FOUND, YOU KNOW, GRAVES RIGHT THERE ON THE WATERSIDE. THEY FOUND, YOU KNOW, ARCHAEOLOGICAL ARTIFACTS, AS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, RIGHT THERE. SO EVEN THOUGH I KNOW WE'RE NOT MIAMI, BUT WE HAD A LARGE NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATION HERE. YEP, THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS MIGHT REQUIRE THAT, BUT WE CAN LOOK FURTHER INTO THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT SOME RESEARCH IS DONE.

TO THAT EFFECT. THANK YOU. IF THERE'S NO OTHER BOARD QUESTIONS FOR MR. FLICK, WHY DON'T WE OPEN UP TO PUBLIC, PUBLIC HEARING? OKAY, THANK YOU. MR. CHAIR, WOULD YOU MIND IF I ASK MR. FLICK ONE QUESTION JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR NAME? WE WERE GOING TO DO THAT.

ON THE APPLICATION WE HAD THE COMPASS GROUP DEVELOPMENT, AND I THINK YOUR LEGAL NAME IS ACTUALLY LET ME SEE, BRING IT UP. WE JUST WANT TO CLARIFY IT SO WE CAN GET IT RIGHT IN ALL OF OUR RECORDS.

COMPASS GROUP DEV, PERIOD, INC., CORRECT? YOU USED A DIFFERENT NAME ON THE APPLICATION, SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE YOUR I USED MY PERSONAL NAME ON IT. NO, YOUR APPLICATION HAD COMPASS GROUP DEVELOPMENT, SO I JUST THAT'S WHY I PULLED THE SUNBID.

YEAH, IT DID. THAT WAS ONE THAT I THOUGHT GOT LOST AND Y'ALL HAD ME SUBMIT ANOTHER OH NO, THAT'S YOUR AGENT AUTHORIZATION. YOUR ACTUAL APPLICATION HAD COMPASS GROUP DEVELOPMENT, AND WE PICKED THAT UP AND WE HAVE THAT EVERYWHERE NOW, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S NOT THE REGISTERED NAME THAT I HAVE.

SO WE CAN WORK WITH YOU AFTER AND JUST GET IT CORRECT SO THAT OUR RECORD IS CORRECT. OKAY, IT'S JUST AN ABBREVIATION.

YEAH, AND IT'S A CORP YES. SO WE'LL UTILIZE THE CORRECT NAME GOING FORWARD IN OUR RECORDS.

OKAY, THANK YOU. SUBJECT TO QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS OF THE PUBLIC, I'LL BE GLAD TO RESPOND. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IF ANYONE WISHES TO SPEAK, WHEN YOU COME UP, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. AND SEEING NOBODY BEING INTERESTED IN THAT, CALL I'LL CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING AND OPEN UP BOARD DISCUSSION. SO WHAT DO YOU GUYS FEEL? I MEAN, I, I FEEL PRETTY STRONGLY, CERTAINLY ABOUT THE VIEW CORRIDOR. IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE OKAY WITH FIGURING OUT A WAY TO MAKE THAT WORK, BUT I ALSO FEEL EQUALLY STRONGLY ABOUT THE BUILDING HEIGHT, AND SOMEHOW MINIMIZING THAT.

THE ENCROACHMENT ABOVE. I LIKE THE DESIGN. I THINK IT'S A THEY DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF BREAKING DOWN SCALE AND MASSING BY INCORPORATING A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIVERSE ELEMENTS. AND THE CUPOLA ADDS AN ICONIC ELEMENT THERE THAT I FEEL LIKE IS PRETTY IMPORTANT TO THIS DESIGN. THAT CUPOLA IS THE KIND KIND OF THE HINGE. I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT CUPOLA MEETS THOSE LDC GUIDELINES SO WE DON'T HAVE EVERYBODY PUTTING UP A TOWER AND SAYING, OH, IT'S A CUPOLA, RIGHT? SO WHAT IF IT'S 45 DEGREES? SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT IN THE CUPOLA AND DISGUISE IT SOMEHOW WITH A FAKE TOP AROUND IT, FAKE WINDOWS. I, I JUST PERSONALLY THIS IS A MASSIVE PROJECT THAT, THAT IT'S BEING HANDLED AS JUST ONE. IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE THIS NEEDS A I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S CALLED A WORKSHOP, BUT IT ALMOST NEEDS A MEETING TO ITSELF TO ADDRESS SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS. BECAUSE YOU HAD MENTIONED IT WAS PRESENTED BY THE WATERFRONT TO THE WATERFRONT ADVISORY.

YEAH, RIGHT. NOW, DO DO THEY THEN COME TO US WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS?

[03:30:03]

I JUST THERE'S A LOT TO CONSIDER HERE. WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE THINGS WE'RE ALLOWED TO CONSIDER. YEAH. AND, YOU KNOW, IN MY MIND, THAT'S VIEW CORRIDORS AND HEIGHT ARE PRIMARY ON THERE. YEAH, I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE CUPOLA.

IF THE SCALE OF THE REST OF IT COMES DOWN, IT JUST IT'S THE HEIGHT IS THE HEIGHT IS CONCERNING TO ME. LEAVE THE CUPOLA OUT OF IT. AND IF THE CUPOLA BECOMES THAT TOWERING ELEMENT, AND IT'S APPROPRIATE AND MEETS IT'S THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO IT. BUT THE REMAINDER OF THE BUILDING, I THINK IT'S JUST THE SCALE IS TOO LARGE FOR THE RIVERFRONT. SO I JUST HAD A THOUGHT THAT FOR OUR CODE FOR SHIELDING MECHANICALS, YOU CAN PENETRATE THAT HEIGHT 42 INCHES. NO, MA'AM. RIGHT.

IT DOESN'T GIVE A SPECIFIC THAT I'M AWARE OF. SO, I MEAN, I'VE DONE IT AND HAD 8 FEET BEFORE, SO IT'S NOT AND I'VE REDUCED IT, AND THEN EVERYBODY SAID, WHY DID YOU DO THAT? YOU'RE SHOWING ALL YOUR AIR CONDITIONING UNITS SITTING ON A HOTEL. SO, I MEAN, THIS I WOULD SAY THIS, THERE ARE 3 BUILDINGS THERE.

AND WHEN YOU DEVELOP A WATERFRONT, BECAUSE THE EXPENSIVE WATER LAND PER FOOT NORTH AND SOUTH, PRETTY STEEP, SO YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO LAYER EAST AND WEST AS WELL IF YOU CAN. WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE IN THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT. AND JUST LIKE BRETT'S DOES, THEY HAVE, OR USED TO, BUT MUCH SMALLER, THEY HAVE ONE GIFT SHOP. AND IT'S JUST ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AND IN FRONT HERE. I WANT TO CALL ATTENTION TO THE EAST ELEVATION. IF YOU PUT EAST ELEVATION ON THERE, BECAUSE YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THAT YOUR, YOUR CITY-FACING SIDE, THE WAY YOU'VE DESIGNED THAT HAS BROUGHT DOWN WE BROUGHT IT DOWN. THE HEIGHT THERE IS DOWN.

YEAH. CAUSE ORIGINALLY, WHEN THE ARCHITECTS FINISHED IT AND WE WERE TRYING TO CAPITALIZE ON ALL 28,000 SQUARE FEET, THAT WAS 2 STORIES. AND I SAID, NO, THAT OUTSCALES THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO WE TOOK IT OFF THERE AND PUSHED IT TOWARDS THE WATER.

YEAH. AND THAT WAY IT TRANSITIONS UP, EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T TRANSITION THAT MUCH HIGHER. ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO THERE'S MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT RIGHT BEHIND ON THAT FIRST ROW.

I NEEDED THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT THERE TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE 4 UNITS AND POTENTIALLY AIR-CONDITION THAT BREEZEWAY VESTIBULE IF I DO.

RIGHT. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGER REASONS WE TRIED TO OUTCROP, CREATE DIFFERENT KIND OF DORMERS, SOME THAT ARE SHOWN. DORMERS ARE JUST AN CREATING ATTRACTION TO THE PLACE AND SOME BEAUTY, STREET CURB APPEAL. AND, BUT WE DID KEEP THE SEPARATIONS OF THE OTHER THINGS, BUT YOU HAVE THIS MUCH MOVEMENT UP AND DOWN, YOU'RE JUST GONNA HAVE A LOT OF ROOF MOVEMENT UP AND DOWN.

THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO DO THAT EFFICIENTLY AT ALL. YEAH, SO, WELL, I THINK WELL, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA PULL THIS BACK INTO BOARD DISCUSSION. I WAS GONNA SAY, BEFORE I LEFT, I STARTED ASKING A QUESTION.

WE NEVER GOT TO ANSWER IT, AND I'M GONNA ASK IT. TELL ME WHAT WOULD MAKE THE DIFFERENCE TO MAKE YOU THINK IT'S DIFFERENT IN SCALE. I'VE GOT 3 BUILDINGS UP THERE. THAT'S WHAT

[03:35:01]

YOU'RE REALLY AT THAT 42 RIGHT. YEAH, EAST SIDE IS CLOSE. IT'S A LITTLE BIT OVER, BUT THE ONLY REASON IT'S, IT'S 42 IS BECAUSE IT WAS DONE ON THE ORIGINAL DECLARATION OF 14'4, AND I NEVER BROUGHT IT BACK DOWN. BUT IN CONCEPT, I'M TRYING TO GET THE CONCEPT APPROVED. I GET IT. IF I GOT TO MOVE SOMETHING 6 INCHES OR A FOOT, I CAN MAKE, MAKE THAT HAPPEN, BUT THE IDEA HERE IS, IN CONCEPT, I GOT TO KNOW, OR WE'RE HEADED UP THE WRONG JOURNEY. FOR ME, CONCEPTUALLY, WE NEED TO REALLY ZERO IN ON THE OVERALL HEIGHT.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THIS THING IS 6 FEET OVER THE HEIGHT LIMIT, AND POTENTIALLY IF YOU THE SECOND FLOOR WITH ADDITIONAL WELCOME CENTER SPACE, IT'S GOING TO BE THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THAT MAIN BUILDING IS 6 FEET OVER THE HEIGHT. AND MOST OF THAT, YOU'RE RIGHT, MOST OF THAT SECOND FLOOR ON THE RESTAURANT SIDE, IT HAD TO HAVE PARAPET OR NOT PARAPET, BUT MANSARD TO BE ABLE TO HIDE IT BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO AVOID IT THERE. SO IT'S GOING TO BE WHAT YOU SEE NOW, AND YOU SEE THAT BACK ROOF AT 40, WHATEVER THAT IS, 48 FEET, IT'S 2 OR 3 FEET HIGHER THAN THE OTHER PIECE. THAT'S, THAT'S GOING TO BE THERE. SO YOU'RE GOING TO CLOSE IN ANOTHER, WHATEVER IT IS, 30 FEET, 25 FEET. WELL, I THINK MAYBE I CAN CHANGE THAT TO A GABLE, BUT I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO A GABLE. AND PUT AIR CONDITIONING IN THE MIDDLE OF A GABLE. THAT'S A LITTLE TOUGH. I MEAN, YOU CAN, BUT IT'S AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. WELL, AT THIS POINT WE'RE IN BOARD DISCUSSION, AND I THINK I'M TRYING TO GUIDE THE BOARD HERE TO WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY MAKE, MAKE A DECISION AND A MOTION.

WE CAN'T DESIGN YOUR BUILDING FOR YOU. WE HAVE WE HAVE A LIST OF THINGS WE'RE SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER, AND ONE OF THE ONES IS HEIGHT. HOW WHAT DO YOU GUYS FEEL? DOES, DOES SOMEBODY FEEL THAT THEY CAN PUT TOGETHER A MOTION ON THIS? I THINK I JUST NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LDC IS SAYING. TRYING TO TELL US ABOUT THE SCREENING BECAUSE I MEAN I COMPLETELY GET WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO, AND I THINK IT'S THIS IS DEFINITELY A BETTER LOOK THAN STARING AT AIR CONDITIONERS ON A ON A ROOF.

BUT WHAT ARE WHAT ARE WE ALLOWED TO APPROVE AS FAR AS THAT SCREENING? I MEAN THAT THAT SEEMS TO BE THE THE BIGGEST HANG UP.

RIGHT. IF THAT SCREENING WAS SOMEHOW HOW LIMITED IN THE, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW IT SPANS THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THAT, THAT PIECE. IF IT WAS REDUCED AND IT WAS A LIMITED AREA, I COULD, I COULD SEE MY WAY TOWARDS SAYING THAT, OKAY, WE CAN, WE CAN LIVE WITH THAT BECAUSE HE'S PUT THE ALMOST IF THERE WAS LIKE RELIEF CUTS IN THAT, IN THAT ROOFING SECTION.

LIKE A RIB SYSTEM, LIKE A RIB. WELL, WITHOUT GETTING INTO DESIGNING IT, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT REDUCING THE OVERALL MASS. NOW WE'RE THINKING ABOUT EXPANDING IT IF, IF THIS AREA GETS INFILLED, SO IT'S GOING TO GET EVEN BIGGER, ESSENTIALLY. YEAH, I'M NOT SURE HOW WE APPROVE THIS. I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT IT BECOMES A CONTINUATION OR OR WHATEVER THE RIGHT TERM IS, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I'D BE COMFORTABLE WITH APPROVING IT AT THIS POINT. WE CAN ASK THE CITY STAFF TO TELL US WHAT THAT LIMITATION IS. RIGHT. I MEAN, WE JUST I MEAN, WE COULD APPROVE IT WITH THE CONDITION THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO MEET THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENT.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, I GUESS THEN. RIGHT, AND THAT THE CUPOLA MEETS THE DEFINITION THAT IT CAN GO ABOVE THE BUILDING. BUILDING HEIGHT, WHICH I THINK THE BUILDING CODE HAS A RESTRICTION ON IT, AND THEN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DOES TOO, WHICH I THINK IT CANNOT BE HABITABLE. THAT'S RIGHT. AND REGARDING TO THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, THE CRA PRESCRIBES 30 FEET IN HEIGHT ABOVE THE BASE FLOOD ELEVATION, AND THAT'S EXCLUSIVE OF CHIMNEYS, MECHANICAL COVERINGS, ELEVATORS, STAIRWELLS, STRUCTURAL COVERINGS, OR OTHER BUILDING ACCESSORY ORNAMENTAL FEATURES.

SO THERE'S NO KIND OF MAXIMUM FOR MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT COVERINGS. AND THEN HERE IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE,

[03:40:01]

YEAH, BUILDING CODE DOES HAVE A LIMIT. THERE'S A STRUCTURAL LIMIT FOR MANSARD AND SCREENING.

IT'S 10 FEET BY THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE. BUT WE HAVE LIKE ELEMENTS THAT CERTAINLY ON THE WEST ELEVATION, THERE'S THOSE 2 GABLE FEATURES.

THOSE CLEARLY AREN'T THERE FOR HOUSING MECHANICALS.

RIGHT. THEY'RE THERE. THAT'S GOING TO MAKE PROBABLY A VAULTED SPACE INSIDE OF A RESTAURANT.

SO, AND THAT, THAT'S 6 FEET ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT. SO WE'RE NOT AND THEN THAT LITTLE DORMER THERE, THAT'S ALMOST THE ENTIRE DORMER IS ABOVE THE SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE HOUSING THE MECHANICALS IS THE WORKAROUND IN ORDER TO HAVE THESE OTHER ELEMENTS ABOVE THE HEIGHT, THE ALLOWABLE HEIGHT. YES.

WHETHER THAT WAS INTENTIONAL OR NOT, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT IT BECOMES, AND IT CAN BECOME FOR THE FUTURE, RIGHT, FOR OTHER THINGS. RIGHT.

THAT'S WHY I WANTED I WOULD WANT TO SEE THE PORTION OF THE EXISTING BUILDING THAT GO THE EXISTING DESIGN THAT GOES ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT REDUCED SIGNIFICANTLY TO THEN I COULD BUY IT THAT THIS IS HOUSING MECHANICALS AND IS A SCREENING ELEMENT. BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S I THINK I AGREE WITH THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING. YEAH, YEAH.

BUILDING ELEMENT. MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS. IS THERE A WAY WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS DONE? YOU'RE SAYING THAT DORMER? RIGHT THERE. AND THE 2 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE 2 DORMERS? THOSE DORMERS ARE REALLY GOOD THERE. THE GABLES AND THE DORMER. YEAH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE THERE TO BREAK UP THE, THE LENGTH OF THIS THING IS BASICALLY, AND IT SORT OF PULLS THE HEIGHT DOWN. YOU TAKE THAT OFF AND LEAVE ANYTHING ABOVE IT, IT'S GONNA MAKE IT LOOK TALLER, BUT THAT LITTLE DORMER COULD COME OUT. THAT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. IT'S AN ATTRACTIVE THING, IS ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO, IS TO MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE. YEAH, THERE'S NOTHING HID IN THERE BECAUSE THAT'S MOUNTED OUTSIDE.

LIKE, IF THOSE 3 ELEMENTS STAYED AND THE, THE ROOF PORTION THAT POKES ABOVE THE 30-FOOT CAME ALL THE WAY IN, OR ALMOST ALL THE WAY INTO THE 2, THE 2 GABLE ENDS, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION OF THE AMOUNT THAT THAT GOES ABOVE THE HEIGHT, RIGHT? AND THAT'S NOT SCREENING.

EXACTLY. YEAH. SO THE YOU SEE, I, I LOOK, I THINK WE'RE IN BOARD DISCUSSION. I'M JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE YOU'RE ASSUMING THINGS THAT AREN'T THERE.

RIGHT HERE, FROM RIGHT THERE BACK HERE, RUNNING RIGHT DOWN THROUGH THERE, ALL OF THAT'S GOING TO BE AIR HERE, EXHAUST. THAT'S WHERE THE KITCHEN IS BACK THERE. AND DOWN HERE IS WHERE EXHAUST AND THE RETURN SYSTEM STARTS FOR A RESTAURANT. YOU'VE GOT IT ALL THE WAY ACROSS THERE. ALL RIGHT. I THINK, I THINK YOU'VE HEARD WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HERE, AND I DON'T THINK THIS BOARD'S READY TO APPROVE THAT MUCH OF A VIOLATION OF THE HEIGHT LIMIT. WE'RE ASKING YOU TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND AND FIND A WAY TO MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT YOU'RE GOING OVER THE HEIGHT LIMIT. WE JUST, WE DON'T HAVE AN OPEN PURVIEW TO JUST SAY, OH SURE, 6 FEET ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT, WHOLE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING. NO PROBLEM. WE NEED TO HAVE, AND IF YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS IS ALL FOR MECHANICALS, THEN MAYBE WE NEED TO SEE THAT. YEAH. SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT, OH, YEAH, HE'S RIGHT. IT IS ALL MECHANICALS.

RIGHT NOW, WE CAN'T SEE THAT, AND I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE VOTING YES ON THIS WITH THAT MUCH VIOLATION OF THE HEIGHT. WHAT HEIGHT DO WE CONTRIBUTE? WHAT HEIGHT DO WE SAY IS REASONABLE? 42 FOOT.

I'VE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT, OR I CAN'T TELL YOU IF IT'S EVEN POSSIBLE. I MEAN, IT'S GOT TO BE ABOVE 3 FEET BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.

YOUR CODE REQUIRES THAT. SO YEAH, I'M, I'M GIVING YOU YOU'RE, YOU'RE YOU ARE ALLOWED SOME PORTION TO GO ABOVE TO SCREEN ELEMENTS, GIVEN. ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT I FEEL LIKE IT NEEDS TO BE MINIMIZED FROM WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY SEEING. 5 FEET? I, I CAN'T JUST THROW A NUMBER OUT THERE. I'M NOT DESIGNING IT.

YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO THROW OUT A DIMENSION. WE'RE ASKING TO REDUCE THE SCALE OF THE STRUCTURE. AND THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE GOT SOME DECORATIVE ELEMENTS TO BREAK UP THAT, I GUESS,

[03:45:01]

I I GET IT. I HEAR YOU.

LIKE YOU SAID, YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BACK THERE, BUT IT'S THE BUILDING IS TOO IT'S TOO BIG.

IT'S TOO TALL.

NOT TAKE THE CUPOLA OUT OF IT, AND THAT NEEDS TO MEET THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT THE REST OF IT IS IT'S OVER THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS.

ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, SHOULD WE CONTINUE IT? WELL, IT'S JUST A CONCEPTUAL, SO WE'RE NOT RIGHT. WELL, YOU HAVE TO DENY CONCEPTUAL.

DENIED. YEAH, RIGHT. WASN'T THAT WHAT WE WOULD DO? YEAH, AND THEN THEY WOULD JUST BRING IT BACK IF IT WAS DENIED TONIGHT. THEY COULD MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS AND BRING IT BACK, CORRECT? OR WE CAN APPROVE TO MEET ALL THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS. YEAH, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, BASE FLOOD ELEVATION PLUS 30 FEET, RIGHT? AND THEN HOWEVER MUCH ABOVE THAT FOR THE SCREENING, YOU KNOW, IS TO BE DETERMINED. IF I'M IN VIOLATION OF YOUR ORDINANCE, PLEASE BE SPECIFIC AND TELL ME WHAT THAT IS. I GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START. I COULDN'T TELL YOU IF I CLIPPED OFF 3 FEET ON EACH SIDE, WOULD THAT HELP? I HAVE NO CLUE UNTIL I I HAVE TO HAVE SOME NOMINAL UNDERSTANDING. THE WAY I READ THE BUILDING, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE RIGHT NOW, IT HAS TO BE SPECIFIC FOR THAT, FOR NO OTHER REASON.

I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT A PARTY TOP UP THERE.

WE DON'T DO THAT. THIS IS TRULY FOR MECHANICAL SYSTEMS AND MAINTENANCE ON THAT DECK. SO I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO MIA AND MARGARET, IF YOU'LL JUST SEE IF I PULLED THE RIGHT THING. THIS IS THE BUILDING HEIGHT IN CRA WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT 30 FEET ABOVE BFE. YES, MA'AM. AND THEN IT TALKS ABOUT, EXCLUSIVE OF CHIMNEYS, MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT COVERINGS, BLAH BLAH BLAH. WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. RIGHT, EXACTLY. SO, AND THEN IT GOES ON AND IT SAYS IF YOU HAVE A COMPOSITE ROOF STRUCTURE, WHICH WE DO, A PARAPET OR RAILING, YOU KNOW, AND I'M ASSUMING THE PARAPET COULD BE WHAT A LOT OF PLACES USE TO SHIELD THEIR MECHANICALS, MAY EXTEND UP TO 42 INCHES HIGHER THAN THE 40 THAN THE 30-FOOT HEIGHT RESTRICTION.

SO THAT WAS PUT THERE SO PEOPLE COULD I WAS IN THE DISCUSSION SITTING IN THIS ROOM WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ALL THAT. ALL THAT WAS CREATED WAS SO PEOPLE COULD HAVE OPEN OBSERVATION DECKS ABOVE THE HEIGHT LIMIT BECAUSE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT IT ON THE BEACH, OFF THE BEACH, IN EVERY PLACE. AND I DON'T IF I PUT A RAIL THERE, A RAIL ISN'T GOING TO SERVE ME ANY PURPOSE.