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FEBRUARY MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. WE'LL GO AHEAD
[1.CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
AND START AND STAND BY. STAND AND SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
ALL RIGHT, CAN YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE? IT'S ON THE AGENDA, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
MEMBER BARRY, CAN YOU PRONOUNCE YOUR LAST NAME? HERSTLET HERSTLET ALL RIGHT.
AND MEMBER FRANK MILLER. HERE.
ALL RIGHT, AND JUST FOR CLARITY AGAIN, FRED IS ON THE BOARD.
JOHNNY HAS NOW MOVED INTO THE BOARD. AND FRANK IS NOW GOING TO MOVE FROM ALLT 2 TO ALT 1. SO, FOR RECORD-KEEPING, THERE ARE NO CASES ON THE AGENDA, SO I DON'T THINK IT'S PARTAKE.
MEDICATIONS ARE GOING TO BE RELEVANT RIGHT NOW.
NO, WE'RE GOOD. THANK YOU FOR ASKING, CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REASON FOR Y'ALL TO SPEAK TODAY, BUT I WILL ASK IF YOU ANYBODY WANTS TO SPEAK. THEY CAN ADMINISTER THE OATH. ANYBODY? ALRIGHT, PASS ON THAT ONE, TOO.
[3.APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
ALRIGHT, SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET TO THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES. OCTOBER WAS OUR LAST MEETING. IT WAS QUITE A WHILE AGO AND IT WAS A GOOD MEETING. BUT THE ARTICULATION OF THESE NOTES ARE QUITE WELL WRITTEN AND I DIDN'T FIND VERY MUCH. DID ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS FOR THE STAFF? NO, I HAVE NO COMMENTS. I RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF MINUTES.SECOND THE FIRST AND THE SECOND.
CAN WE CALL IT UP PLEASE? CHAIR PAPKE APPROVED.
MEMBER MILLER YES MEMBER JOHNSON YES MEMBER HERSTLET YES MEMBER KREGER YES MEMBER FRANK MILLER YES ALL RIGHT, QUICK AND EASY.
SO, NO STAFF REPORT TODAY, CORRECT? CORRECT, SEPARATE FROM CITY UPDATES WHEN WE GET DOWN TO THAT.
ALRIGHT, SO IN TERMS OF BOARD BUSINESSES,
[7.BOARD BUSINESS]
WE COME BACK TO THE ELECTION OF THE CHAIR AND THE VICE CHAIR, WHICH I SWEAR WE JUST DID, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S GONE THAT MUCH TIME.RIGHT NOW, I'M THE CHAIR, LEN'S THE VICE CHAIR. I GUESS WE ARE BEING NOMINATED AGAIN.
WE'RE GOING TO CALL FOR NOMINATIONS IN THIS BOARD? TYPICALLY, YES, IT IS HOW YOU DO IT.
THE BOARD CAN DECIDE TO NOMINATE A CHAIR, OR YOU CAN DO IT IN ONE NOMINATION OR IN TWO, IF YOU WANT TO JUST TAKE WHOEVER'S INTERESTED, OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PROCEED.
KNOWING THAT MY ROLE IS UP, I'VE DONE THIS FOR A WHILE. I'M HAPPY TO CONTINUE ON IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO MAKE A NOMINATION FOR THE CHAIR.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WILL WE CALL THE VOTE, PLEASE? MEMBER PAPKE? YES.
MEMBER MILLER? YES. MEMBER JOHNSON? YES.
AND MEMBER, I GUESS IT'S ALL AT ONCE, SO YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE.
ALL RIGHT. SO THAT'S RESOLVED.
CONTINUE OUR YEARLY SERVICE AND RECONVENE THIS TIME NEXT YEAR.
CHAIRMAN, JUST WHAT WE'RE CLEAR. SO YOU WERE RE-NOMINATED AS A CHAIRMAN. WHO IS THE VICE CHAIR? LEN LEN OKAY, THIS WON'T BE SURE WE GOT IT RIGHT IN HERE.
NEED TO CHANGE YOUR NAME TAGS.
SO, IN TERMS OF THE MEETING CONFLICT, I'M NOT ENTIRELY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THAT WAS, SO CAN YOU? YES, WE HAVE A BUDGET MEETING.
THERE WAS A CONFLICT WITH THE TIME. IT'S A SCHEDULED BUDGET MEETING, I BELIEVE IT WAS. WAS IT SOMETHING ELSE? THE ELECTION WILL BE ON AUGUST 18TH, WHICH IS A TUESDAY. SO NOW THE CITY COMMISSION IS GOING TO MEET ON AUGUST 19TH, WHICH IS THEIR MEETING DATE.
SO I WAS GLAD YOU PUT THIS ON HERE. SO WE JUST WANTED TO KNOW, DO YOU WANT US JUST TO TRY TO SCHEDULE A TIME, OR IF WE DON'T HAVE A MEETING THAT MONTH, THEN WE JUST CANCEL THE MEETING? WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF IT BECAUSE YOU WON'T, THAT'S NOT A TIME THAT YOU CAN MEET THAT MONTH.
UNDERSTOOD. WHY DON'T WE GET CLOSER TO JUNE AND JULYĀ YES Ā AND SEE WHAT CASELOAD WE HAVE AND THEN WE CAN MAKE A BETTER ASSESSMENT BECAUSE SUMMER TIMES ARE USUALLY BUSIER. THEY KIND OF FALL OFF, BUT IT'S HARD TO SAY.
RIGHT, AND BECAUSE THERE'S A TIMING FOR PEOPLE TO SUBMIT APPLICATIONS, THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, WE'D LIKE TO KNOW A FEW MONTHS AHEAD OF TIME,
[00:05:01]
BUT I THINK WE CAN DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN WAIT UNTIL JULY.JUNE OR JULY YEAH, I THINK WE CAN DO THAT.
OKAY YES, MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, BECAUSE THAT WEEK, THE 20TH WOULD BE THE HDC, AND SO, OF COURSE, WITH THE PLANNING MANAGER, AND WE HAVE THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER HERE, THEIR CONSENT, I THINK ANY PROPOSAL THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE, WOULD PROBABLY BE THE WEDNESDAY, THE 26TH, THE FOLLOWING WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 26.
YES, OR CANCEL IT IF WE DON'T WRITE OUR CASES.
RIGHT OR CANCEL IT. I MEAN, JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF WHAT THE RESCHEDULE WOULD LOOK LIKE. BECAUSE THAT WEEK'S PRETTY HECTIC ALREADY WITH OTHER MEETINGS AND I DON'T KNOW IF, YEAH, THAT LAST WEEK IS VERY OPEN WITH SO YOU COULD DO A WEDNESDAY IF YOU WANTED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH YOUR APPLICANTS.
ON THE 26TH? WEDNESDAY, THE 26TH. WE CAN SEND THAT OUT, THAT DATE, AND JUST SEE IF ANYBODY HAS A CONFLICT.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER WANTED TO GIVE THEM UPDATES ON SOME OF THE STUFF DOWNTOWN.
OKAY. WELL, I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND EVALUATION AND REPORT THAT'S DUE THIS YEAR FOR THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. I KNOW IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, COME TO THIS BOARD OR YOU HAVE A DAILY INPUT IN IT, BUT IT WILL WHEN IT COMES TO CASES. THAT WILL COME BEFORE YOU WHEN THINGS CHANGE, RIGHT, AND GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW ABOUT THAT PROCESS.
SO, WE HAD A KICKOFF MEETING ON THE 22ND. AND SO, WE'VE KIND OF PRELIMINARILY HAVE OUR COMMUNITY OUTREACH THAT'S GOING TO BE OCCURRING IN APRIL, AND THEN WE'LL MAKE A PRESENTATION TO THE PAB AND TO THE CITY COMMISSION ON ANY RECOMMENDED CHANGES THAT WE WANT TO MAKE TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WHICH THEN WOULD TRANSLATE TO ANY CHANGES THAT WE'D MAKE TO THE LDC AND THEN THE COMP PLAN BEFORE THAT. SO, I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE THAT THAT'S GOING ON. SO, IF YOU HEAR ANY RUMBLINGS ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE REQUIRED BY STATE STATUTE TO SUBMIT THAT REPORT BY SEPTEMBER, THE 1ST OF THIS YEAR. WE'RE GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT LIMITED BECAUSE OF SENATE BILL 180, WHICH DOESN'T ALLOW MUNICIPALITIES OR COUNTY TO PUT INTO PLACE REGULATIONS THAT ARE MORE STRINGENT. AT THIS POINT.
BUT WE FEEL LIKE SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT WE'RE GOING TO RECOMMEND ARE GOING TO BE MORE FOR CLARIFICATION AND COMMUNITY DESIRE, RIGHT? NOT NECESSARILY ANYTHING THAT'S MORE ENFORCING, IT'S JUST A CLEAR WHAT WE WANT, YOU KNOW, AND MAKE IT CLEARER, BECAUSE WE ARE STRUGGLING WITH OUR LDC RIGHT NOW. NOT NECESSARILY THE COMP PLAN. THE COMP PLAN HAS A LOT OF GOOD IDEAS, BUT SOME OF THOSE IDEAS HAVE NEVER GOTTEN TRANSLATED INTO THE LDC. NEXT YEAR, BEFORE THE SEPTEMBER, THE 1ST OF 2027, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE COMP PLAN REQUIREMENTS CHANGED AND APPROVED THE CITY COMMISSION. SO, WE MAY BE LIMITED TO ONLY STATUTORY CHANGES THAT HAVE CAME DOWN OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO THE OVERALL PROCESS THAT WE HAVE NOW IN GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
SO, YOU ANTICIPATE CHANGES TO THE LDC, THOUGH? ABSOLUTELY. GOOD CHANGES. MAKE YOUR JOB EASIER.
CERTAINLY MAKES YOUR JOB EASIER.
I DO NOT KNOW IF IT WILL MAKE IT EASIER, BUT I THINK IT'LL HELP CLARIFY IT FOR THE PUBLIC AS WELL.
YEAH, AND MAKE IT CLEARER FOR YOU GUYS WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THESE TOUGH DECISIONS.
OKAY, EXCELLENT. YOU HAVE A COMMENT? YEAH, A COUPLE COMMENTS. LAST TWO MEETINGS WE DISCUSSED THE VARIANCE REQUIREMENTS AND SPECIAL PRIVILEGE, WHICH MAKES LITTLE OR NO SENSE.
AND YOU WERE GOING TO WORK ON THAT? YES, AND WE HAVE, MISS PRINCE HAS BEEN LIKE, IT'S BEEN LIKE A FIRESTORM EVER SINCE SHE STARTED. AND THAT IS ON THE LIST TO TALK ABOUT THAT REQUIREMENT, AND SO WE'LL JUST NEED TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT ONE, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE. I BELIEVE WE'D HAVE TO TAKE THAT BACK TO THE PAB AS WELL, BECAUSE THAT'S IN THE LDC. BUT I KNOW THAT WE HAVE RELAYED THAT AS ONE OF THE TOP PRIORITIES. WE'RE TRYING NOT TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF LDC CHANGES RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A MAJOR REWRITE. BUT IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THIS BOARD FEELS IS IMPORTANT, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO.
AND I KNOW YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS A STRUGGLE FOR THAT.
BUT EVEN THE APPLICANTS ASK US, HOW DO I ANSWER THIS? IT MAKES NO SENSE.
AND IT'S POTENTIAL SERIOUS PROBLEMS BECAUSE. JUST BY, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GETTING SPECIAL PRIVILEGES, THAT'S WHAT A VARIANCE IS. BUT WHEN YOU START SAYING THAT SOMEBODY GETS IT AND SOMEBODY DOESN'T,
[00:10:02]
YOU HAVE SOME REAL ISSUES.BUT, AND THE OTHER THING IS A DISCUSSION ITEM, KIND OF A QUESTION, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION OF MERGING BOARDS, WHICH WE WERE NEVER INVOLVED IN, MERGING THE PAB WITH THE BOA, AND OF COURSE, WHEN THAT CAME UP AT A COMMISSION VOTE, BOTH MARGARET AND MYSELF SPOKE AGAINST THAT, AND I THINK THE BOARD AGREES, SO I THINK THAT THAT'S STILL OUR POSITION. YOU KNOW THAT THIS BOARD NEEDS TO BE INDEPENDENT FROM THE PAB, AND I'M SURE IT'S A PAB POSITION TOO. BECAUSE THEY SPOKE AGAINST IT.
THAT'S CORRECT, AND WHEN IT DID GO TO THE COMMISSION, THAT WAS ALSO WHAT THEY HAD SAID. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED AT THIS TIME ON COMBINING THE BOARDS, AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT ON OUR RADAR TO RECOMMEND.
WHAT IS STATE RULE 180? WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT? THAT'S NEW TO ME.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT, TRACY? YEAH, JUST WENT THROUGH THE CHAIR, IF I MAY.
SENATE BILL 180 WAS A BILL THAT STARTED OFF IN THE LEGISLATURE AS A BILL THAT WAS GOING TO HELP YOU IF A HURRICANE FLATTENED YOUR HOME AND YOU HAD TO REBUILD. AND THE CONCEPT WAS THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO REBUILD WITH LESS RESTRICTIONS AND LESS ONEROUS RESTRICTIONS, AND THAT IT WOULD PREVENT THE GOVERNMENT FROM HOLDING YOU UP FOR WEEKS OR MONTHS, OR WHATEVER THE ALLEGATIONS WERE OF THE HOLDUP. HOWEVER, AT THE 11TH HOUR, WHEN IT WAS BEING ADOPTED AT THE END OF THE LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, SOME AMENDMENTS WERE PROPOSED THAT MADE IT EFFECTIVE ACROSS THE ENTIRE STATE, THAT MADE IT EFFECTIVE FOR A CERTAIN LENGTH OF TIME THAT'S AT LEAST ANOTHER COUPLE YEARS. I DON'T KNOW IT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. AND THAT IT MADE ANY LAND DEVELOPMENT REGULATION THAT'S UNDULY BURDENSOME, CHALLENGEABLE. SO, CURRENTLY, A COURT CASE IN MANATEE COUNTY, THERE WAS A CASE AGAINST MANATEE COUNTY BECAUSE THEY ENACTED IMPACT FEES. NOW IMPACT FEES ARE WHEN YOU CONSTRUCT YOUR HOME, CORRECT THE FIRST TIME. AND THE MANATEE COUNTY FILED A MOTION TO DISMISS AND IN THAT THE COURT ALLOWED THE CASE TO SURVIVE, AND THIS IS THE FIRST ONE WE'VE HAD SO FAR, TO GO ON THE MERITS AND NOT BE DISMISSED. BECAUSE THEY FOUND THAT IMPACT FEES COULD REASONABLY BE SEEN AS UNDULY BURDENSOME. SO, IT'S BEING APPLIED ACROSS THE STATE IN MANY WAYS THAT ARE NOT SIMPLY ABOUT REDEVELOPMENT.
WHEN IT WAS FIRST PASSED, THERE WERE EAR AMENDMENTS THAT THE STATE FOUND VOID AB INITIO AS IN VIOLATION OF S.B. 180, SENATE BILL 180. THERE WERE SOME GLITCH BILLS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE MOVING THROUGH WHEN WE WERE IN TALLAHASSEE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
UNFORTUNATELY, OUR GRANTS ADMINISTRATOR HAVE SAID THAT THE HOUSE HASN'T MOVED THE BILL FORWARD. AND THEY'RE ABOUT TO COME OUT OF SUBCOMMITTEES, SO WE MAY NOT GET A GLITCH BILL. THE GLITCH BILL PROPOSED BY THE SENATE WAS GOING TO PUT IT BACK TO WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, ALLOW IT TO SUNSET EARLIER, AND ALLOW IT TO SIMPLY BE THOSE THAT ARE BURDENED, RIGHT? YOUR HOUSE IS DOWN, NOT ANY PERSON IN A CITY, WHETHER THEY'RE NEW DEVELOPMENT, REDEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF THING.
SO THAT'S SB. 180, AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'LL ALL COME TOGETHER AT THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, BUT RIGHT NOW, THE GLITCH BILL THAT WE WERE HOPING WAS GOING TO PASS IS LOOKING TO BE IN A BIT OF PERIL, TO SAY THE LEAST.
BUT THAT'S SB. 180 IN A NUTSHELL. AND THEN THE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SIT DOWN WITH THE CITY MANAGER EITHER. I MEAN, WHEN I CAME ON BOARD, I SEE THE SPECIAL PRIVILEGE IS SOMETHING THAT'S UNIQUE TO THAT LOT. AND WE HAVE SEEN CERTAIN SITUATIONS SINCE MISS PEARSON AND MR. AKRAMOV AND MISS SADLER AND MYSELF HAVE BEEN PRACTICING TOGETHER AND WORKING TOGETHER.
IT'S UNIQUE AND IT'S NOT GRANTING A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE BECAUSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
SO, I HAVEN'T HAD A TIME TO GET MY HEAD AROUND IT OR TALK TO THE CITY MANAGER TO SEE WHERE SHE'S AT WITH IT. BECAUSE I THINK THIS PROPOSAL CAME IN, I MEAN, I THINK IT HASN'T REALLY BEEN THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE YET.
SO IT'S KIND OF IN MY STACK AND HER STACK FOR US TO GET TOGETHER TO DO.
BUT WE DO KNOW THAT THE VARIANCE AMENDMENTS ARE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO CONSIDER. THAT WOULD PROBABLY SURVIVE SB 180 BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE MORE ONEROUS.
SO THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD STILL MOVE FORWARD.
BUT IT'S IN THE QUEUE, AS MS. PEARSON HAS STATED.
I BELIEVE THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER WANTS TO GIVE YOU SOME UPDATES AS WELL. GLENNA CROMWELL, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER. YEAH, I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A COUPLE UPDATES ON...
FIRST KIND OF OUR STRUCTURE AND HOW THINGS ARE WORKING ON THE
[00:15:03]
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AREA, AND THEN A LITTLE BIT ON CAPITAL. SO AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU GUYS HAVEN'T MET IN QUITE A WHILE AND WE'VE MADE A LOT OF CHANGES IN PLANNING. WE NOW HAVE A NEW STRUCTURE, WITH MARGARET LEADING AS THE MANAGER, AND WE HAVE A NEW TEAM MEMBER IN MCKENNA AND WE'RE... MOVING FORWARD, THINGS ARE REALLY STARTING TO MOVE FORWARD AND WE'RE GELLING AS A TEAM. WE DO HAVE ONE POSITION OPEN, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO HOLD OPEN FOR A LITTLE WHILE TO SEE HOW THINGS GO. WE KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A DOWNTURN IN ACTIVITY, SO WE'VE KIND OF HOLDING TO SEE HOW THAT, HOW THAT GOES. WE ARE SEEING A LITTLE BIT UPTICK IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS, SO THAT'S A GOOD SIGN FOR ALL OF OUR, ALL OF OUR GROUPS, BUT WE WANTED TO BE CAUTIOUS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD FUND EVERYTHING. IN BUILDING, CODE ENFORCEMENT AND PLANNING, WE'RE ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTING A NEW SOFTWARE SYSTEM, WHICH WILL HELP A NUMBER OF THINGS. CUSTOMER SERVICE IS ONE. WE'LL BECOME MUCH MORE EFFICIENT. IT'S CALLED CITYVIEW. IT'LL BE MUCH EASIER TO ACCESS OUR SYSTEM. BY OUR PUBLIC AND OUR MAIN CUSTOMERS.SO IT'S A BIG INITIATIVE. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME, BUT WE'VE RAMPED IT BACK UP.
WE ARE TENTATIVELY GOING LIVE ON MAY 11TH, AND SO WE'LL BE SEEING SOME MORE EFFICIENCIES AND A LOT MORE INTEGRATION WITH OUR CUSTOMERS. WE ARE INVITING THEM TO ACTUALLY HELP IN OUR TESTING. HERE IN THE NEAR FUTURE, A FEW CHOSEN CUSTOMERS SO WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THEIR SIDE IS NAVIGATED.
AND BUILDING IS HOSTING WHAT WE'RE CALLING A DEVELOPERS FORUM HERE IN THE NEXT WEEK, WHERE WE'VE INVITED THE DEVELOPERS AND BUILDERS THAT FREQUENT FERNANDINA BEACH TO COME TALK TO US. WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT A FEW THINGS AND THE UPDATES THAT WE'RE DOING, BUT IT'S KIND OF A...
INTRODUCTORY THING. AND TO TALK WITH THEM ABOUT HOW WE CAN GET BETTER AND HOW WE CAN BETTER MEET THEIR NEEDS IN A SERVICE WAY. WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF RETIREMENTS RECENTLY, ONE IN CODE ENFORCEMENT. OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER RETIRED IN DECEMBER. WE HAD OUR INSPECTION COORDINATOR RETIRE LAST WEEK. SO THEY'VE BOTH BEEN, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE IN THERE DOING THEIR JOBS NOW.
AND SO WE CELEBRATED THAT, AND WE HAVE TWO BIG ONES, ONE IN PLANNING. KATHY RUSSELL, OUR CONSERVATION MANAGER, IS RETIRING AT THE END OF MARCH. AND THEN OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT DIRECTOR IS ALSO RETIRING AT THE END OF MARCH.
FOR A CODE ENFORCEMENT MANAGER.
AND HE ACCEPTED. ONCE WE GET ALL THE FINAL DETAILS, WE'LL MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT AND THEN AT YOUR NEXT MEETING, AFTER HE ARRIVES, WE'LL COME INTRODUCE HIM TO YOU. SO YOU KNOW WHO'S DOING THAT WORK IN THE CITY. SO WE GOT A NUMBER OF THOSE SORT OF CHANGES AND I SHOULD MENTION PART OF THE. THE REASON I'M HERE IS BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE GROUPS ARE ARE NOW WORKING WITH ME AS THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER. THE OTHER PORTION THAT I HAVE IS CAPITAL, AND I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A QUICK UPDATE ON THAT. YOU CAN SEE THE STREETS CLOSED HERE. THAT'S A STORMWATER PROJECT THAT THEY'RE JUST STARTING TO KICK OFF.
THEY SHOULD BE BREAKING GROUND HERE ANY DAY. AND THAT, IT GOES ALL THE WAY, FROM 4TH, FIXING THE STORMWATER PROBLEMS, ALL THE WAY TO THE WATER. SO IT'LL BE A NUMBER OF MONTHS IN THE MAKING.
BUT THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON THERE. IF YOU'VE BEEN DOWN ON FRONT, NEAR THE PARK, YOU CAN SEE IT'S STARTING TO LOOK LIKE A PARK, FINALLY.
TREES ARE GOING IN, IRRIGATION, ALL OF THE LIGHTS ARE GOING UP. SO WE ARE LOOKING FOR SUBSTANTIAL COMPLETION BY MARCH 16TH, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A GRAND OPENING ON APRIL 11TH OUT THERE. SO THAT'S EXCITING. AS PART OF THE... AS PART OF THE MOORE CONSTRUCTION, WE ARE GOING TO, LOOKING TO BID THE NEXT SEGMENT OF THE SEAWALL. WHICH IS THE SOUTHERN SECTION, THAT'S SEGMENT ONE,
[00:20:01]
WHICH IS SOUTH OF THE PARK TO COOK'S PROPERTY. WE'RE HOPING TO DO THAT AT THE END OF MARCH AND START CONSTRUCTION AS EARLY AS THE END OF APRIL. WE'RE STILL WAITING ON SOME PERMIT ITEMS. AND THEN WE ARE LOOKING AT DOING THE BRETT'S DEMO. THE PERMITS ARE IN PROCESS NOW, AND AS PART OF THAT PROJECT, WE WILL ALSO BE RECONFIGURING THE PIER THAT GOES OUT TO THE MARINA. AND WE'LL BE ALSO BUILDING THAT SEGMENT OF SEAWALL. SO, AND REPLACING THE FUELING STATIONS THERE BECAUSE WE NEED TO UPSIZE AND ALL THE PIPES AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO THAT'LL BE ONE MASSIVE PROJECT. WE'RE HOPING TO BID THAT END OF APRIL, EARLY MAY, AND START CONSTRUCTION IN MID-JUNE, SO THERE'LL BE A LOT OF ACTIVITY DOWN HERE AT ALL AT ONCE. AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE WANT TO KEEP THAT GOING AND KEEP THAT AT FULL SPEED IS WE ARE AT 60% DESIGN OF OUR DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION PROJECT. AND THAT'S FOR 4TH, 5TH, AND 6TH.AND WE ALREADY HAVE CENTER STREET. FULLY DESIGNED AND ALL OF THE ELEMENTS APPROVED. AND WE'RE LOOKING AT CREATING A PHASING PLAN BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE BUSINESSES AND HOW WE DO THAT, AND OF COURSE, WE'RE LOOKING FOR FUNDING AND EVERYTHING.
BUT AS TIME STARTS TO COMPRESS, BECAUSE THESE PROJECTS TAKE SO LONG, THE BRETT'S REPLACEMENT CAN IS POSSIBLY AS LONG AS 18 MONTHS TO FINISH THAT. SO WHEN WE PUT ALL OF THOSE THINGS TOGETHER, DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION WILL REALLY NEED TO START ABOUT THE END OF THAT. SO LOTS OF POSITIVE THINGS HAPPENING OUT THERE, BUT WE WANT TO, AND THERE'S LOTS OF ACTIVITY HERE. I WANT TO UPDATE YOU ON TWO THINGS THAT ARE PARKS RELATED THAT YOU HEAR QUITE A BIT ABOUT, WHICH IS THE EBOR BALL FIELD REPLACEMENT. YOU? WE ARE GOING TO COME IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION ON AUGUST 3RD AND LAY OUT ALL THE OPTIONS AND THE PROS AND CONS OF THOSE.
AND KIND OF PUT THEM IN A RECOMMENDED ORDER. BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW. AND SO THAT'S COMING SOON AND THEN WE ARE WORKING ON THE M.L.K BALL FIELD. IT'S CONSTRUCTION, REALLY. WE HAVE ONE FIELD.
WE'RE GOING TO GO TO TWO FIELDS. AND WE'VE GOTTEN CONSENSUS IN THE COMMUNITY TO GO AHEAD AND DO THAT. SO WE'RE GOING TO START WORK ON THAT SOON. ONE REASON I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU KNEW ABOUT THAT IS THAT WE TOOK THAT TO TRC ALREADY IN A THREE-FIELD CONFIGURATION.
BUT WHETHER IT'S TWO OR THREE, WE HAVE A PARKING PROBLEM. AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO COME IN FRONT OF YOU AND HAVE YOU HELP US WORK THAT OUT. SO I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A HEADS UP. IF THE CITY MEETS THE VARIANCE REQUIREMENTS. SO YOU'LL HAVE TO NOW DISCLOSE THAT AS EX PARTE COMMUNICATION. WELL, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO HAVE DONE THAT.
SO WITH THAT, LOTS OF FUN ACTIVITIES, LOTS OF THINGS, LOTS OF CHANGES GOING ON WITH THE CITY. AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF STAFF CHANGES AT EVERY LEVEL. AND IT FEELS LIKE TO ALL OF US THAT... UM, WE'RE STARTING TO GEL AS A UNIT AND STARTING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN. ANY QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION.
BEING THAT, WE HAVE PLANNING HERE, AND CITY ATTORNEY HERE, AND YOU HERE, AND THE BOARD HAS HEARD TWO VARIANCES, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH TRINGALI NOW? IF THE CHAIR WOULD LIKE ME TO, I CAN GIVE A QUICK UPDATE ON THAT. ARE YOU FINISHED? I'M FINISHED. OR WE CAN, YEAH. I WAS JUST LETTING YOU FINISH.
YEAH, EXACTLY. SO WE CAN. I WAS GOING TO, DURING MY SESSION OF THE SUNSHINE LAW UPDATE, I WAS GOING TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON TRINGALE. I WILL PREFACE IT WITH THERE IS STILL PENDING LITIGATION, SO NOT LOTS OF COMMENTS. I CAN JUST GIVE YOU AN UPDATE, NOT ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS. THE PROPERTY OWNER DECIDED TO FILE FOR A 7051 HEARING, WHICH REQUIRES US TO GO TO MEDIATION. SO THAT HAS BEEN SERVED UPON US. WE DO HAVE INSURANCE ON IT AND SO OUTSIDE COUNSEL HAS BEEN ASSIGNED. I'VE BEEN GETTING UPDATES. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO SCHEDULE THE MEDIATION.
LOTS OF MOVING PARTS, LOTS OF PARTIES. IT'S LOOKING LIKE IT MAY BE PUSHED TO
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APRIL, WAS THE UPDATE I GOT TODAY. SO WE ARE WORKING TOWARDS IT. AND THEN IF YOU, YOU, YOU, IT'S LIKE A TWO-PART PROCESS AND THEN IT HAS TO GO THE COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL. THE REASON WHY THE ATTORNEY, I THINK, IN MY OPINION, WHY THAT ATTORNEY SELECTED THAT ROUTE, IS IT STAYS ALL OF HIS OTHER TIME PERIODS.TO APPEAL YOUR DECISION, TO APPEAL ANY OTHER DECISION.
SO THAT IT OPERATES TO ALLOW FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER TO FIND RELIEF. AND IF THEY CAN'T FIND RELIEF IN THIS PROCESS, THEN THEY CAN GO BACK TO THE OTHER. AND STILL APPEAL THE BOA DECISION, OR APPEAL WHATEVER DECISIONS THEY WANT TO. SO THAT'S THE UPDATE ON THAT PROPERTY. I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE ASSISTANT. I'M SORRY, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER? OKAY, COOL. THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN OSR BEFORE, SO CONGRATULATIONS. WE PROBABLY COULD HAVE USED ONE. YOU SAID THAT YOU DID OUTREACH FOR THIS BUILDER'S FORUM. HOW WAS THAT DONE? DID YOU JUST GO TO THE ONES THAT YOU'RE FREQUENT FLYERS, OR DID YOU PUT THAT OUT TO THE PUBLIC? NO, WE PUT IT OUT TO THEM. WE'VE BEEN TALKING WITH THEM EVERY TIME WE HAVE AN INTERACTION WITH THEM. SO BUILDING HAS BEEN DOING THAT.
WHENEVER WE'RE OUT IN THE FIELD, TALKING WITH THEM, WE'VE INVITED THEM. AND THEY'VE ALL BEEN VERY INTERESTED. SO WE'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH THEM IN THAT REALM FOR MONTHS.
YEAH, I THINK YOU'LL GET A LOT OF FEEDBACK ON THAT. I KNOW THAT WAS A MAJOR ISSUE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM JACKSONVILLE WOULD COME UP AND BE CONFUSED BY HOW WE DID THINGS IN FERNANDINA. SO IF THERE'S SOME WAY THAT WE COULD NOTIFY THE ONES THAT WOULD COME IN. AND MAYBE HAVE ONE OR TWO PROJECTS UP HERE WHERE A LOT OF THOSE THINGS ENDED UP ON THEIR DASHBOARDS OR CONFUSED.
AND TO THAT, WE DO PARTICIPATE IN. SOME OF THE REGIONAL MEETINGS FROM THE BUILDING ASSOCIATION AND ALL OF THEIR GROUPS, AND WE ANNOUNCED IT THERE AT THE LAST THREE MEETINGS.
AND IS MICHELLE FORSTER RETIRING? IS THAT WHO YOU? THAT'S WHAT? YES, MICHELLE, FOR SURE. DO YOU KNOW HER RETIREMENT DATE IS? I MISSED IT? MARCH, MARCH 27TH? OKAY, AND UM, THE, UH, I HAD SOMETHING ELSE. I'D ASK YOU TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS. OH, THE CLOSURES FOR THE WATER. IS THAT DONE? IT'S THAT'S IN THE SECTIONS, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CLOSE AN ENTIRE STREET OF ASH, IT'S GOING TO BE DONE IN A SECOND? NO, YES, IT'LL BE A BLOCK AT A TIME.
OKAY. SO WE'RE STARTING AT THE MOST DISRUPTIVE, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE. RIGHT. IT WILL, PART OF THE CONTRACT IS THAT IT'S OPEN DURING SHRIMP FEST, SO THEY'LL HAVE TO BRING IT BACK. THERE'S ALSO A GRANT THAT'S IN IT, SO THERE'S TIMING TO GET CERTAIN PARTS OF IT DONE. BUT, YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO GO THIS WAY ALL THE WAY UP TO FOURTH. I'VE HAD SOME OF THE RESTAURANT OWNERS THAT I'VE RUN INTO. CONCERNED ABOUT, LIKE, I KNOW, OVER HERE AT THE TWISTED TABLE, THEY WERE WORRIED. THEY'VE BEEN THE IMPRESSION THEY'RE GONNA CLOSE THE STREET DOWN FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND YOU WON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE FRONT OF THAT.
AND I THINK IF YOU GO OUT HERE, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE SIDEWALKS ARE STILL ACCESSIBLE.
AND THEY DID DO A MEETING LAST WEEK, I THINK AT THE END OF LAST WEEK, WITH ALL THE BUSINESS OWNERS, AND EACH TIME THEY MOVE, THEY WILL DO THAT. OKAY, GREAT.
YEAH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT. YOU'RE WELCOME.
WHAT CHANGES DO YOU SEE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT? WELL, I DEFINITELY HAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENT VISION ON HOW THAT'S DONE THAN IT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST. I THINK THE MAIN CHANGE TO START IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO START FOCUSING ON THE AREAS THAT WE GET THE MOST COMPLAINTS ON, BUT ALSO THAT WE KNOW ARE THE HIGHEST VIOLATORS. AND WE'LL START AN EDUCATION CAMPAIGN ON THOSE. I'VE HAD GOOD RESULTS WITH THAT IN THE PAST. WHERE WE FOCUS ON, WE TAKE THE TOP FIVE THINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY. AND WE FOCUS ON THEM. AND WE EDUCATE WHY WE DO THEM AND WE TALK TO THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THEM.
AND BECAUSE OUR JOB IS NOT TO ENFORCE ALL THE TIME, IT'S TO GET COMPLIANCE. THAT'S OUR GOAL. SO IT'S CHANGING THAT FOCUS TO, BECAUSE VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE IS BEST FOR EVERYONE. SO WE'RE GOING TO START FOCUSING IN THAT DIRECTION. AND I'M REAL EXCITED ABOUT OUR NEW MANAGER BECAUSE THAT'S HIS PHILOSOPHY AS WELL. AND I WANT TO SAY ABOUT MICHELLE'S WORK, SHE HAS DONE A FABULOUS JOB HERE.
SHE'S HELD THIS UP AND CREATED MOST OF WHAT WE HAVE. AND I PROMISED HER THAT WE WILL KEEP COMPLIANCE. AS HIGH AS IT IS, OR HIGHER AS A LEGACY TO HER.
THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. MR. PRESIDENT, WOULD YOU GO THROUGH YOURS ON THE SUNSHINE LAW, PLEASE? OKAY. CERTAINLY. ON THE SUNSHINE LAW, I'M GOING TO ASK MS. PEARSON IF I COULD SIT IN HER CHAIR. DID THAT WORK FOR YOU LAST TIME? YEP.
THEY'RE GOING TO BRING THAT UP. AND ACTUALLY, WHILE THEY'RE BRINGING UP SUNSHINE LAW, WE COULD GO OVER QUASI-JUDICIAL REALLY QUICKLY.
[00:30:01]
TERESA PRINCE. YOU MET ME FIRST SITTING OUT THERE, IF YOU DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW ME.AND THANK YOU FOR THAT HEARING. IT WAS KIND OF AWKWARD TO BE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY AND BE SITTING DOWN THERE. IN THE FUTURE, WE PROBABLY WILL NOT HANDLE IT THAT WAY. I WILL PROBABLY STAY WITH THE BOARD AND HAVE...
OTHER COUNSEL DOWN WITH STAFF.
BUT THOSE ARE UNUSUAL SITUATIONS FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE BEEN ON THE BOARD. AND GENERALLY IT'S IN THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE THE OTHER SIDE HAS, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE FEEL LIKE STAFF NEEDS TO BE REPRESENTED. SO YOU ARE QUASI-JUDICIAL. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I THINK THE COMMISSION RECONSIDERED JOINING PLANNING BOARD AND BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. THE PLANNING BOARD HAS QUASI-JUDICIAL ELEMENTS, BUT ONLY ON REZONINGS. THEIR PRIMARY PURPOSE IS LEGISLATIVE. THEY GET THEIR POWER FROM 163 AND FROM ORDINANCE TO LOOK AT ALL THE LAND USE POLICIES.
WHEREAS THIS BOARD IS A, AS YOU KNOW, A VARIANCE BOARD AND AN APPEAL BOARD. AND EVERY BREATH YOU TAKE IS QUASI-JUDICIAL, EXCEPT FOR TODAY. SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS. I THINK IN SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS, A LOT OF THAT WAS HAPPENING BEFORE I CAME, BUT THAT IS SOME DISCUSSIONS THAT I HAD. YOU'RE ON OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, OUR QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARINGS ARE UNDER CHAPTER 11, THEY'RE 11.0401. AS YOU SAW, OR, IF YOU RECALL, IF YOU WERE ON THE BOARD AT THE TIME, WHEN WE HAD THE APPEAL HEARING, WE CAME UP WITH THE ATTORNEYS ALL CONSENTED TO A PROCEDURE, RIGHT, SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE TIME LIMITS. BECAUSE WE KNEW IT WAS AN ISSUE THAT MIGHT HAVE A LOT OF PUBLIC INTEREST AND A LOT OF SPEAKING. SO I FIND...
HAVING WORKED WITH A LOT OF GOVERNMENT BOARDS, IT IS BEST THAT WE GO AHEAD AND PRESENT YOU WITH SOMETHING AT ONE OF YOUR MEETINGS. SO WE GO AHEAD AND ADOPT IT AND ACT THE SAME WAY EVERY TIME.
BECAUSE WHAT IF SOMEBODY IS NOT REPRESENTED? AND THEN WE TRY AND TELL THEM WE'RE ONLY GOING TO GIVE THEM 15 MINUTES. AND WE'RE GOING TO DO FIVE MINUTES EACH SIDE FOR WITNESSES AND CROSS-EXAMINATION. SO I WOULD LIKE TO BRING SOME QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES BACK FOR YOU THAT WOULD FOLLOW YOUR BASIC FRAMEWORK, WHICH, AS YOU KNOW. THAT YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR EX PARTE DISCLOSURES, YOUR STAFF PRESENTS EVIDENCE, THEN THE APPLICANT CAN PRESENT OR RELY ON STAFF, YOU KNOW, AND THEN PARTIES THAT ARE INTERESTED CAN PRESENT. AND IN A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, AS YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT MANY TIMES, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A COMPLETE COURT HEARING, IT'S COURT-LITE. YOU HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, AND I JUST DON'T LIKE IT. IT DOESN'T MEET THAT CRITERIA. CITIZENS CAN, UNDER THE CASE LAW, GIVE OPINIONS ABOUT CERTAIN MATTERS. THEY CAN GIVE YOU AN OPINION ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY THINK THEIR STREET IS BUSY. THEY CANNOT GIVE YOU AN OPINION ON WHETHER OR NOT IT VIOLATES FDOT UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO HAVE THAT EXPERTISE. OR WHEN THEY GET UP AND SAY, IT'S GOING TO DEVALUE MY HOME IF YOU GRANT THIS VARIANCE.
OR, YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS WITHIN THEIR EXPERTISE. THAT WOULD BE FOR AN APPRAISER. AND THEN, AS YOU'VE PROBABLY BEEN TAUGHT, I HATE TO KEEP SAYING THAT, BUT TOLD OR ADVISED, YOUR STAFF IS COMPETENT.
SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. SO THAT WOULD BE MARGARET PEARSON AND MIA SADLER. WHEN THEY PRESENT, THEY ARE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT YOU CAN RELY ON AND YOU CAN RELY ON THEIR STAFF REPORT. AND THE FINDINGS OF THEIR STAFF REPORT. OFTEN, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS HAVE TO GO AGAINST THEIR STAFF IF THEY WANT TO GRANT THE VARIANCE, BECAUSE MANY APPLICANTS CANNOT MEET ALL OF THE CRITERIA, WHICH IS HOW WE STARTED THIS MEETING.
SO OFTEN YOU'LL FIND YOUR STAFF IS BOUND BY RECOMMENDING DENIAL IF THEY CAN'T FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT FIT THE CRITERIA.
TO ASSIST. AND THEN BOARDS WILL SOMETIMES FIND A WAY TO KIND OF WORK AROUND THAT AND GRANT VARIANCES. AND THAT MAY BE WHERE FORMER VICE MAYOR KRIEGER WAS DISCUSSING. YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD SOMETIMES WORK AROUND IT.
IN ONE RECOMMENDATION OF A DENIAL FROM STAFF, AND ANOTHER TIME, MAYBE YOU, YOU FOLLOW STAFF AND DENY IT.
AND YOU GET INTO THAT THAT SITUATION WHERE YOU KNOW IT IS FACT-SPECIFIC. AND THEY'RE NOT BOOTSTRAPPED FROM ONE TO THE OTHER.
BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO APPEAR THAT SOME PEOPLE GET FAVORITISM THAT OTHERS DON'T. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS TO WORK TOWARDS THAT OF CLEANING UP THOSE VARIANCES.
AND I THINK THE BALANCE FOR THE CITY IS. YOU DON'T WANT A VARIANCE TO BE SO COMMON THAT IT'S BASICALLY A CODE AMENDMENT. YOU DO WANT CRITERIA THAT REQUIRES THEM TO AT LEAST GIVE YOU A SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE FOR THEIR PROPERTY. THAT IS UNIQUE TO THEIR PROPERTY AND WE SEE WE ARE GOING TO MISS
[00:35:02]
PEARSON AND I HAVE DISCUSSED.ONE OF THE AMENDMENTS THAT MAY STILL GET THROUGH BEFORE THE THE EAR AMENDMENTS ARE DONE IS THE APPEAL PROCESS IN CHAPTER 11. AND WHAT CAN BE BROUGHT TO THIS BOARD, TO THE APPEALS BOARD? BECAUSE IT'S MY RECOMMENDATION THAT, YOU KNOW, VARIANCE OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND THE FIRE MARSHAL ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE REALLY IS NO BASIS FOR THIS BOARD TO HEAR THOSE.
IN THE SITUATION OF TRINGALI, I KNOW THAT THE BASIS FOR IT WAS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE ARGUMENT WAS THAT THE BUILDING OFFICIAL RELIED ON A FAULTY STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
BUT OVERALL, THAT SHOULD BE AN APPEAL OF THAT STAFF DECISION, AND NOT AN APPEAL OF... THE BUILDING OFFICIALS BUILDING PERMIT, SO WE WILL BE PROPOSING THAT TO THE COMMISSION, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WILL DO WITH IT. AND THAT WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PLANNING BOARD AS WELL. AND THAT WOULD BE TO REMOVE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND THE FIRE MARSHAL.
BUT THEN ALSO TO INCLUDE AN ITEM THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN OUT.
THAT I HAVE DISCUSSED WITH THE CITY MANAGER AND WITH MISS PEARSON, THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE DECISIONS, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THAT PROBLEM HAPPENED. IF WE WANT TO HAVE A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE, AND THEN THERE WOULD BE A SPECIFIC APPEAL OF THE TRC DECISION THAT HAS RENDERED AND TIMELY. AND SO THAT IS ONE WAY THAT WE'RE MOVING TO CHANGE JUST SLIGHTLY WHAT YOU HEAR. WE'VE ALSO IMPLEMENTED THE SPECIAL MAGISTRATE PROCESS FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT. I KNOW THE QUESTION WAS ASKED, WHAT CHANGES THERE MAY BE. SO WE, AS OF MAY 1ST, WILL BE MOVING TO A SPECIAL MAGISTRATE TO HEAR ALL THE CODE ENFORCEMENT MATTERS. HE HEARS MAGISTRATE, WHOEVER HE OR SHE MAY BE, HEARS SOME APPEALS, APPEALS OF CITATIONS THAT DON'T COME TO YOU, THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS WRITE.
WE HAD A PARKING CITATION APPEAL THE OTHER DAY, THAT SPECIAL MAGISTRATE ALREADY HEARS ANIMAL CONTROL CITATIONS.
THINGS LIKE THAT THAT DON'T COME TO THIS BOARD, SO THAT'LL BE A CHANGE FOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD. AND AS FAR AS THE QUASI-JUDICIAL, WHAT I WOULD BRING TO YOU FOR YOU TO LOOK AT AND CONSIDER AS A PUBLIC BODY IS, AGAIN, THE TIME LIMITS.
THAT GENERALLY YOU GIVE 15 MINUTES PER SIDE, THEN YOU GET FIVE MINUTES FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION, BECAUSE IF THERE ARE WITNESSES, YOU CAN CROSS-EXAMINE THEM. I THINK WE DID THAT IN THE TRINGALI HEARING. DO YOU GUYS REMEMBER THAT? YOU KNOW, WE CROSS-EXAMINE CERTAIN CITIZENS.
SO THAT'S USUALLY FIVE MINUTES A SIDE, AND ALSO THE APPLICANT GETS TO... TO USE THAT FIVE MINUTES AND YOU ENTER THE INFORMATION INTO THE RECORD.
AND THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF THINGS THAT I WOULD BRING FORWARD TO YOU. LET ME SEE WHAT ELSE WE'VE DONE BECAUSE I'VE PREPARED THESE FOR SOME OF THE OTHER BOARDS AS WELL.
AND AND THEN IT WOULD, YES. IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW FOR STAFF TO MAKE ANY FINAL COMMENTS IN THE RECORD AND THE APPLICANT.
AND THEN YOU CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND YOU DEBATE.
DURING THAT TIME, YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND YOU'RE NOT TIME LIMITED, BUT GENERALLY YOUR QUESTIONS CAN COME, YOU KNOW, DURING YOUR DEBATE PERIOD. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO BRING BEFORE YOU AND HAVE YOU LOOK IT OVER AND THEN WE CAN ADOPT IT AT ONE OF YOUR MEETINGS IF IT IS THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD TO HAVE JUST A SET RULES THAT WE FOLLOW, WHETHER IT'S A HOT TOPIC OR NOT, SO THAT WHEN IT IS A HOT TOPIC, WE DON'T LOOK AS IF WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT. I THINK IT'S THE BEST PRACTICES TO HAVE SOMETHING. CAN I GO BACK A COUPLE THINGS? YOU MENTIONED FAVORITISM, AND THIS BOARD HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THAT, AND I DON'T WANT TO EVER IMPLY THAT IT'S PRIVILEGED OVER ANOTHER, BUT THIS BOARD, AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN SITTING ON IT NEXT TO BARRY, WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER SEVEN YEARS NOW.
THERE'S NEVER BEEN PRECEDENCE.
JUST BECAUSE ONE CASE IS APPROVED BECAUSE OF X FACTOR.
WE DON'T SAY THAT THAT GETS APPROVED, AND THAT WOULD NOT INDICATE FAVORITISM IF THAT ONE WAS DONE AND THIS ONE WAS NOT.
YEAH, NO, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I THOUGHT I SAID THAT OUT LOUD, BUT MAYBE I DIDN'T.
IT ISN'T, YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.
LEGALLY, IT'S NOT PRECEDENCE, AND LEGALLY, IT'S NOT FAVORITISM. I THINK THE PERCEPTION IS WHAT I MEANT, AND THAT'S ALL. DOES AN APPLICANT HAVE REDRESS IF THEY FEEL LIKE PRECEDENCE WAS GIVEN? IF THEY HAVE TWO VERY SIMILAR SITUATIONS AND ONE WAS GIVEN APPROVAL, ONE WAS NOT? DO THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF RECOURSE? THEY COULD GO BACK AND USE THAT PREVIOUS AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT. THEY WERE OKAY, THEN THEY HAVE TO APPEAL TO CIRCUIT COURT. THEY COULD ATTEMPT TO, BUT THE LAW IS VERY CLEAR THAT VARIANCES ARE EACH OF THEIR OWN. I MEAN, I GUESS YOU COULD COME UP WITH SOME HYPOTHETICAL OF AN EXACT FACT PATTERN OR
[00:40:01]
SOMETHING, BUT NO, I I MEAN, THE CASE LAW IS CLEAR THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE. SO OUR BOARDS, WOULD THEY BE EVIDENTIARY IN CASES LIKE THAT? THE RECORDINGS OF THESE MEETINGS WOULD BE USED IN THE EVIDENCE? THESE ARE EVIDENTIARY HEARINGS. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO PRESERVE THE RECORD, AND THAT'S GENERALLY IN YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES, AND USUALLY IT'S ON, WE CAN START PUTTING IT ON YOUR AGENDA AS WELL. WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT, THAT IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE THE RECORD, YOU SHOULD BRING A COURT REPORTER.IF OUR EQUIPMENT IS FAULTY, THEN THAT PUTS THEM ON NOTICE. THEY CAN BRING A COURT REPORTER. AND THEN, GENERALLY, IN QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS, IN THIS PARTICULAR BOARD, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN.
IN CODE ENFORCEMENT, YOU SEE A LOT WHERE THEY DON'T REALIZE.
MAYBE THAT THEY COULD HAVE REPRESENTATION, SO YOU LET THEM CONTINUE TO ANOTHER MEETING IF THEY WANT TO GO GET A LAWYER. HERE, I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING IT'S A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, BUT CERTAINLY, IF SOMEONE STOOD UP, YOU GENERALLY READ THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES AT THE BEGINNING. I CAN'T REMEMBER IF WE DID THAT IN THE OCTOBER MEETING. YOU READ THEM OUT LOUD AND THEN YOU CAN SAY, AND IF ANYONE HERE WOULD LIKE TO BE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND WE'LL CONTINUE YOUR CASE. AND THAT GIVES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY, IF THEY'RE LIKE, KIND OF SURPRISED BY THE PROCESS AND HOW FORMAL IT IS. AND THEN THE APPEAL DOES GO TO CIRCUIT COURT SO WE CAN OFFER THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY. AND THAT'S USUALLY THE LAST THING THAT'S SAID WHEN YOU READ IT ALOUD. OKAY. WE'VE CONTINUED ONCE. YEAH. BECAUSE WITH THIS BOARD AS THE CHAIR, I THINK IS INDICATING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ABOUT A VARIANCE. IT'S VERY CLEAR ON THE APPLICATION. YOU KNOW, IT'S THAT YOU'RE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE FOR THE PUBLIC FOR SOME REASON. IN THE PAST, WE'VE HAD CASES THAT HAVE BEEN CHALLENGING AND THEN CASES THAT ARE VERY SIMPLISTIC. AND TIME LIMITS, AT LEAST AS FAR AS I REMEMBER, HAS NEVER BEEN IMPLEMENTED.
WE'VE ALWAYS GIVEN THE PUBLIC A FAIR TIME AMOUNT, BUT I RECOGNIZE... LAST CASE IN OCTOBER, HOW THAT COULD BE HELPFUL IF WE HAD A STRUCTURE? I DON'T THINK WE WOULD EVER GET IT ON THESE SMALLER CASES, AND I DON'T EVEN THINK IT'S WORTH MENTIONING, BUT WE WOULD HAVE A STRUCTURE OR A FORMAT, MAYBE IT WAS PRESENTABLE TO THE APPLICANT IN SOME FORMAT, THAT THIS IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE, IF IT EVER GETS TO THIS. CORRECT, MR. CHAIR.
AND ALL OF THE TIME LIMITS SAY THAT FURTHER TIME CAN BE ALLOTTED BY THE BOARD OR THE CHAIR? SO IT DOES ALLOW FOR THE TIME. I LIKE THAT IDEA. OKAY. CAN I ASK? I LIKE THE IDEA OF THERE BEING A SORT OF DEFAULT ON THE PROCEDURES. I ALSO WONDER, ARE COMPLAINANTS OR APPLICANTS GIVEN IN WRITING BEFORE THE MEETING, WHERE THEY APPEAL SOME SET OF RULES, SOME...
DESCRIPTION, SOME FAQ, SO THAT IF THEY'RE NOT SOPHISTICATED ABOUT A QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURE, THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES.
AT THIS TIME, I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW THE APPLICATION ITSELF HAS SOME INFORMATION, BUT YOUR QUESTION IS A GOOD ONE AND IS REMINDING ME THAT. THE WAY OTHER JURISDICTIONS I'VE BEEN PART OF, THEY HAVE A PACKET OF WHAT QUASI-JUDICIAL MEANS AND WHAT CITIZENS CAN TESTIFY TO THAT THEY DO PUT OUT WITH IT, AND I SEE MS. PEARSON AT HER STATION, SO DO YOU HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON THAT? YES, WE DO SIT DOWN. WE REQUIRE A PRE-APP, OF COURSE, AND SO WE SIT DOWN WITH THEM AND WE GO OVER THE SIX CRITERIA. WE KIND OF EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT THAT MEANS, AND OF COURSE, IT'S THEIR APPLICATION, RIGHT? BUT WE TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT THOSE QUESTIONS ARE ASKING. AND THEN WE ALSO EXPLAIN TO THEM, YOU KNOW, HOW THE PROCESS WORKS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S BASED ON FINDING THE FACTS. WE RECOMMEND THAT IF THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE, THAT PERHAPS THEY HIRE A PROFESSIONAL THAT UNDERSTANDS THAT KIND OF WORK. AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ATTORNEYS. THERE'S ALSO OTHER PROFESSIONALS THAT KIND OF HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS. SO IF... IF THEY FEEL LIKE IT, WE TELL THEM, YES, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT YOU CAN REPRESENT YOURSELF AS WELL. SO WE REALLY TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THEM HOW THE PROCESS WORKS.
WHAT, MS. PRINCE HAS MENTIONED, THOUGH, WE DON'T NECESSARILY TALK ABOUT TIME, AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING THE BOARD DECIDES TO DO, WE CAN INCORPORATE THAT INTO OUR PRE-APPLICATION MEETING, IS THAT YOU NEED TO LIMIT YOUR PRESENTATION TO 15 MINUTES OR WHATEVER THE TIME FRAME THAT YOU HAVE. IT SEEMS TO ME, IF WE DIVIDE BETWEEN VARIANCES, I'VE NOT BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO SIT ON A VARIANCE.
BUT THAT SEEMS ROUTINE, ORDINARY. THE MATTER IN OCTOBER WAS QUITE UNUSUAL.
BUT AN OPPORTUNITY TO TELL PEOPLE, EVEN IN THE UNUSUAL CASE, HERE ARE THE BASIC RULES, AND FOR A LAYPERSON TO BE ADVISED. THAT IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY, THE ROUTE TO DO IT IS TO SAY, I'D LIKE AN ATTORNEY. AND I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE MY CASE
[00:45:01]
UNTIL I GET ONE, WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT ARE. AND FOR PEOPLE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS COMPLEX. WE'D LIKE THE BOARD TO CONSIDER EXPANDING THE TIME, HERE'S WHY, AND THEN WE'D HAVE SOME NOTICE FROM THE PARTIES THAT WE COULD ENTERTAIN AND THEN JUST FREE UP THE TIME FOR AN UNUSUAL MATTER.BUT I THINK LIKE A LITTLE, ALMOST LIKE A PRE-HEARING FORM THAT THEY GOT TO READ, A LITTLE EDUCATION AND A HEADS UP, BOTH THE CITY AND THE BOARD, THAT THIS IS AN UNUSUAL MATTER AND WE MAY WANT TO TAILOR OUR... OUR FRAMEWORK, BUT OTHERWISE, THE FRAMEWORK IS, AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED, PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. YOU ALMOST NEED TO HIRE A TEENAGER AND MAKE A YOUTUBE FOR YOU. WELL, WE HAVE SOME VERY YOUNG ADULTS, HOW'S THAT? THAT ARE REALLY GOOD WITH THAT BIG AND NOT TOO LONG AI. I'LL DO ALL THIS.
OKAY, IT WILL. AND THROUGH THE CHAIR. YES, AND THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. WE SHOULD PROBABLY HAVE PROCEDURES FOR VARIANCES AND PROCEDURES FOR APPEALS, BECAUSE IT IS TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. AND IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE WITH THE TIME LIMITS. AND LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN IN TWO DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS WHEN I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE. WHERE YOU GET A PACKET THAT WE COULD PREPARE FOR PLANNING THAT HAS THE PROCEDURES AND THEN HAS WHAT COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS, SOME DEFINITIONS, SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT CITIZENS CAN TESTIFY TO, IF THEY CHOOSE TO READ IT. YOU KNOW, IT WOULD JUST GIVE THEM SOME INFORMATION. AND NOTHING'S BETTER THAN, YOU KNOW. THE HIGHEST FORM OF FLATTERING IS COPYING, RIGHT? I CAN PROBABLY JUST TAKE THAT RIGHT FROM THE COUNTY.
AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE VARIANCES, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD AS FAR AS WHAT EVIDENCE AND ALL THAT.
IT'S THE APPEALS THAT I THINK ARE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE. AND I THINK WE CAN DO MORE, MAYBE WHEN IT COMES TO THE APPEALS. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF THEM, BUT THEY'RE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
SO YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT BRINGING TRC? HOW WOULD THAT WORK? WELL, IN CHAPTER 11, THERE'S A LIST OF ITEMS THAT ARE APPEALABLE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.
THAT ARE DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE AT A LOWER LEVEL. THAT RATHER THAN GOING STRAIGHT TO COURT, THEY CAN APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.
THERE'S A FEW AREAS WHERE THEY CAN APPEAL TO THE CITY COMMISSION, AND SO RIGHT NOW, WHEN THE TRC MAKES A DECISION, IT'S CALLED A LOCAL DEVELOPMENT ORDER. SO RIGHT NOW, LOCAL DEVELOPMENT ORDERS ARE NOT ON THAT LIST. SO IT WOULD BE ADDED TO THE LIST. IF THE COMMISSION APPROVED IT, THAT YOU COULD APPEAL A LOCAL DEVELOPMENT ORDER AS LONG AS YOU DID IT WITHIN 30 DAYS, WHICH IS THE CRITERIA NOW.
WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT IMPLEMENTING, AND WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT THE COMMISSION WILL DO, IS IMPLEMENTING A STANDARD OF REVIEW. SO IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS, WHEN YOU PUT IN FOR AN APPEAL, IT USUALLY GOES TO THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO SEE IF IT IS TIMELY. AND THEN, IF IT'S DENIED AS BEING UNTIMELY OR NOT ONE OF THE 11 CRITERIA, THEN THEY CAN APPEAL IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND COME BACK DOWN. SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IMPLEMENTING THAT. WE HAVE NO IDEA. WE'VE NOT DISCUSSED IT WITH ANY OF YOU.
THE TRC SHOULD BE, IT'S A TECHNICAL REVIEW, BASED ON CODES. SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CODE, WOULD YOU BE CHALLENGED? I DON'T SEE HOW THAT WOULD COME TO US. WELL, IT WOULD BE WITH A LOCAL DEVELOPMENT ORDER. I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING IS DENIED. FOR A CERTAIN REASON, THEY COULD. THE IDEA WAS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY WHY THEY COULDN'T MEET A PARTICULAR, OR THEY FELT LIKE THEY MET THE ORDINANCE, BUT STAFF'S INTERPRETATION WAS THAT THEY DIDN'T. AND SO THAT WOULD BE A SITUATION WHERE THEY WOULD COME TO THIS BOARD AND SAY, THIS IS OUR INTERPRETATION OF THAT REQUIREMENT, AND THIS IS WHY WE THINK THAT REQUIREMENT IS. ALMOST A DIFFERENT WAY TO ASK FOR A VARIANCE. IT'D BE INTERESTING. YES, IT WILL BE INTERESTING, AND IT'S NOT CURRENTLY IN THERE.
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IT USED TO BE PART OF THE CODE, AND IT WAS TAKEN OUT. SO, YOU KNOW, IT HAS A LONG WAY TO GO BEFORE IT GETS THERE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO KEEP YOU APPRISED THAT.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED TO OFFER AN AVENUE FOR AN APPEAL BEFORE GOING TO COURT. IT'S MUCH CHEAPER TO DO IT THAT WAY. YEAH, IT OFFERS SOME RELIEF. AND THEN WE CAN DO THE SUNSHINE LAW NEXT, UNLESS THERE'S MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT QUASI-JUDICIAL? I HAVE ONE, BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING YOU'LL ADDRESS, WHICH IS. I FOUND THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCESS FASCINATING, BUT IT LACKED ONE THING, WHICH I THINK COLLIDES WITH WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO TELL US ABOUT. SO MAYBE WHEN YOU GET TO IT, WE DON'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSULT AMONGST OURSELVES, EITHER BEFORE, ONCE WE'VE READ THE PAPERS, OR AFTER WE'VE HEARD THE EVIDENCE.
THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT WE CAN HEAR.
BUT THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY IS IN AN OPEN SESSION. NOW, THAT'S
[00:50:01]
FINE, BUT IT'S SOMEWHAT CONSTRAINING, AND IT'S NOT AHEAD OF TIME.AND THAT WAY, IF WE HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY, AND I SUSPECT YOU'RE GOING TO TELL US, WE DON'T, IT WOULD ALLOW THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WITH DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE AND DIFFERENT EXPERTISE TO DISCUSS WITH EACH OTHER, EVEN JUST THE FRAMEWORK OF WHAT WE'RE DECIDING. SO MAYBE WHEN YOU GET TO THE LITTLE, YOU KNOW, FOR ROMAN TO SUBSET A FOOTNOTE THAT LETS US DO SOMETHING, YOU'LL TELL US? BUT JUST AS FOR RELATIVE TO THAT, NOT ONLY WOULD THAT PERHAPS CONSIDER COLLUSION OR AFFLUENCE, LET ME SAY, INFLUENCE, NOT COLLUSION, BUT... WHAT'S GOING TO END UP HAPPENING IS WE'RE GOING TO VOTE ELECTRONICALLY. AND NOBODY IS GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, APPROVE OR DENY. THEY'RE GOING TO GO UP THERE AND HIT A BUTTON, AND THEN IT'S GOING TO APPEAR UP THERE. AND SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE INFLUENCED BY ANYBODY ELSE'S VOTE. SO YOU THINK THIS BOARD WILL GET THERE FOR THAT? OH. WE'RE WORKING ON IT AS OUTSIDE COUNCIL. I MEAN, WHEN I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, I HATED THAT. I LOVED COUNTING MY VOTES. I COULD JUST COUNT THE... THAT'S NEW, RIGHT? IS THE COMMISSION DOING THAT NOW? I'VE NOTICED THEY DON'T DO A VERBAL VOTE ANYMORE. I ACCIDENTALLY WATCHED A CITY COMMISSION MEETING ONE DAY...
DIDN'T MEAN TO, I WOULDN'T, BUT I NOTICED THAT THAT WAS.
SO HOW'S THAT DONE? IS THAT WITH THIS, THAT MIKE IS THIS? WE? YOU KNOW? SINCE I DON'T VOTE, I DON'T HAVE THE SYSTEM, BUT IT APPEARS TO ME IT'S ON THEIR SCREEN AND THEY VOTE, YOU KNOW, ON THE SCREEN, THEY PUSH A BUTTON AND THAT IS DIFFERENT. YEAH, I'VE NEVER SEEN IT BE A THING, BUT IT, IT'S EASIER THAN SAYING NO OUT LOUD. THE COUNTY HAS DONE IT, FOR, I MEAN, THEY'VE DONE IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
JACKSONVILLE CITY DOES IT, TOO, BUT THERE'S A LIGHT BOARD BEHIND THEM AND IT SHOWS THEIR VOTE ON THE LIGHT. WELL, AND THAT'S WHY THEY'VE DONE THIS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT DOES SHOW ON ALL, OR DOES IT JUST SHOW DOWN THERE? OH, IT'S JUST SHOWING ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT NOW.
YEAH, IT DOES. BUT YES, I CAN GET TO SUNSHINE LAW. I THINK THERE'S A FEW MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD THAT CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION BEFORE I EVEN GOT TO THAT. PART OF THE SLIDE.
YOU CAN'T SAY HELL NO OR HELL NO. I WAS GOING TO SAY, NOT JUST NO. YOU CAN'T CLICK IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. OH MY GOSH, NO. HOW DO I DO THIS? I JUST CLICK, CLICK. OKAY, GREAT.
THIS IS THE OPEN MEETINGS WHICH GOES RIGHT TO MR. MILLER'S, MR. FRANK MILLER, NOT MR. JOHNNY MILLER'S QUESTION. AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE REQUIRED.
GOVERNMENT IS REQUIRED TO PRACTICE IN THE SUNSHINE AND PROVIDES A RIGHT TO ACCESS TO ALL GOVERNMENT PROCEEDINGS.
IT'S FOUND IN ARTICLE 1, SECTION 24, OF THE FLORIDA CONSTITUTION, AND THEN CODIFIED IN THE STATE STATUTES UNDER CHAPTER 286.011. THERE ARE THREE REQUIREMENTS MEETINGS MUST BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, NOTICE MUST BE PROVIDED AHEAD OF TIME, MINUTES MUST BE TAKEN. SO THOSE ARE THE THREE REQUIREMENTS WHEN YOU ARE HOLDING A MEETING THAT MEETS THE SUNSHINE LAW. AND WHO IS COVERED UNDER THE SUNSHINE LAW? THIS BOARD IS. ALL COUNCILS, BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, STATE AGENCIES. SOME OF OUR STAFF COMMITTEES ARE ALSO COVERED BY THE SUNSHINE, THE TRC, BECAUSE IT'S A DECISION-MAKING BODY THAT MAKES A RECOMMENDATION AND HAS A FINAL DECISION. IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE SUNSHINE.
ELECTED OR APPOINTED COUNCILS AND BOARDS, THAT'S YOU GUYS, ARE THE APPOINTED, PRIVATE COMPANIES DOING BUSINESSES ON BEHALF OF A GOVERNMENT AGENCY. SO IF WE HIRED SOMEONE ELSE TO DO OUR TRC, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY. AND THEN, IF ONE PERSON, IF YOU DELEGATE ONE PERSON TO DO SOMETHING THAT THE ENTIRE BOARD NORMALLY VOTES ON, THAT ONE PERSON HAS TO MEET IN THE SUNSHINE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ONLY ONE. AND THEN THIS IS THE MEETING WHERE MEMBER FRANK MILLER, A MEETING IS ANY TIME TWO OR MORE BORDER COMMITTEES COME TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT THEY CAN VOTE ON. AND SO THE SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS YOU CAN NEVER DISCUSS BUSINESS PRIOR TO A MEETING.
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SEND MORSE CODE, COURIER PIGEONS, EMAIL, TEXT, NO FORM OF COMMUNICATION PRIOR TO THE MEETING ON ANY MATTER THAT WILL COME BEFORE YOU. SO YOU'RE GOING TO SEE LATER IN THE SLIDES. IF YOU DECIDE TO HAVE COFFEE, YOU JUST DON'T TALK ABOUT. THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, RIGHT? YOU TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT ANY MATTER THAT'S GOING TO COME BEFORE YOU. YOU CANNOT USE STAFF AS A LIAISON, SO, YOU KNOW, MS. PEARSON CAN'T TALK TO BOARD MEMBER HERSTLET AND THEN TELL BOARD MEMBER KREGER, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT ONE SAID. YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN DO DISCUSS MATTERS WITH YOU AHEAD OF TIME.
BUT IT IS OUR DUTY AS STAFF TO JUST LISTEN, ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AND THEN MOVE ON.
AND NOT, YOU KNOW, TELL YOU WHAT THE OTHERS ARE THINKING.
OR DECIDING. AND THEN CAN YOU SOCIALIZE? AND THAT'S WHAT THIS, YOU CAN, YOU JUST CANNOT DISCUSS ANY BUSINESS OR MATTERS THAT MIGHT COME BEFORE YOU. IF YOU'RE AT A PUBLIC FORUM, SO YOU MAY SEE SOMETIMES THAT WE HAVE COMMISSIONERS ATTEND FUNCTIONS THAT ARE NOT WHERE
[00:55:01]
THEY'RE DOING BUSINESS. WE'RE NOT HOLDING A MEETING. THOSE WE DO A NOTICE OF GATHERING. THAT IS A COMPLETE. LEGAL FICTION THAT WE'VE JUST MADE UP TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER, THAT WE KNOW WHERE OUR COMMISSIONERS ARE AND WHERE YOUR BOARD MEMBERS ARE. IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY LAW. IT DOES NOT SATISFY THE SUNSHINE. SO, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU'RE AT AN EVENT WHERE A NOTICE OF GATHERING HAS BEEN POSTED, BECAUSE YOU WILL SEE THOSE ON OUR WEBSITE, IT DOES. THAT DOES NOT THEN FREE YOU UP TO TALK ABOUT BOARD MEMBER BUSINESS.THAT JUST MEANS YOU CAN BE THERE AND YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DISCUSS WITH ONE ANOTHER.
SO IF REMEMBER JOHNNY MILLER GOT UP AT A GATHERING. IF WE WERE ON THE BOARD TOGETHER AND SAID, I SUPPORT THIS, I COULD NOT THEN GET UP AND SAY, OH, I AS WELL SUPPORT WITH JOHNNY MILLER. HE'S MADE GREAT COMMENTS. WE CAN'T DO THAT NOW, WE CAN GET UP AND SPEAK, BUT WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO ENGAGE WITH ONE ANOTHER. IF WE'RE AT THAT PUBLIC GATHERING, AND THAT WOULD BE MORE IN A SITUATION OF A TOWN HALL OR A PUBLIC DEBATE. OR LIKE, MISS PEARSON WAS SAYING, YOU'RE GONNA WITH OUR EAR AMENDMENTS, WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE ENGAGING WITH THE PUBLIC ON SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING TO VOTE ON. LATER, YOU WOULD DO A NOTICE OF GATHERING. NOW YOU CAN, MR. FRANK MILLER, IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO SOMEBODY, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO TALK TO PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT ON YOUR BOARD. SO YOU CAN TALK TO YOUR COMMISSIONERS, YOU CAN TALK TO OTHER, LIKE YOUR PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS, AND THEN YOU WOULD JUST, ANY OF YOU WOULD SIMPLY HAVE TO DISCLOSE THAT IF YOU WERE DOING. INVESTIGATIVE WORK, WHICH YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO LIKE INQUIRIES. YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO DISCLOSE YOUR EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. AND WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS IN THE QUASI-JUDICIAL.
BUT THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, SINCE BOTH SIDES HAVE A RIGHT IN THE COMMUNITY HEARING. WHEN YOU'RE ONLY TALKING TO ONE SIDE WITH THE OUT, WITHOUT THE OTHER SIDE PRESENT, THAT'S WHAT THE EX PARTE COMMUNICATION IS. PUBLIC ATTENDEES AND COMMENTS, THEY HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WE CAN HAVE IN OUR PROCEDURES.
NON-DISRUPTIVE VIDEO AND AUDIO RECORDING IS PERMITTED. THEY MUST BE GIVEN A REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD ON ANY PROPOSITION BEFORE THE BOARD OR COMMISSION VOTES ON IT.
IN YOUR VARIANCE HEARINGS, YOU KNOW, THE HEARINGS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT. YOU KNOW, THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO BE HEARD, BUT THEY MAY NOT BE COMPETENT. SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. AND THAT IS A LITTLE CONFUSING, SOMETIMES FOR THE PUBLIC. AND YOU MAY INSTITUTE YOUR GUIDELINES, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
FOR WHEN YOU WOULD SPEAK, HOW LONG, CITY PUBLIC NOTICE MEETINGS, WHERE WE POST THEM, CITY HALL, PEC CENTER, UTILITIES, BILLING AND REC, AND THEN WE HAVE AN ONLINE THAT YOU CAN CLICK AND GO TO, AND THEN AGENDA LINKS AND SO LIKE.
RIGHT OUT HERE, YOU'LL SEE OUR NOTICES POSTED WHEN YOU'RE AT CITY HALL. NOW, IF YOU VIOLATE THE OPEN MEETING, THE ACTION YOU TAKE CAN BE INVALIDATED AND BE VOID AB INITIO BY THE COURT. YOU CAN BE FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION AND HAVE A SECOND-DEGREE MISDEMEANOR, WITH PUNISHMENT OF IMPRISONMENT UP TO 60 DAYS AND A $500 FINE. THE GOVERNOR CAN REMOVE YOU FROM OFFICE, AND FINES UP TO $500 AND REASONABLE ATTORNEY'S FEES CAN BE LEVIED IN COURT CASES. THE COMMISSION ON ETHICS GENERALLY HANDLES THESE MATTERS FOR BOARDS AND ELECTED COMMISSIONERS, BUT STATE ATTORNEY... LOTS OF OTHER WAYS TO PURSUE THESE KIND OF CLAIMS. SO THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO TALKING OUTSIDE OF THE MEETING, NO MATTER HOW HELPFUL WE THINK IT MAY BE.
ARTICLE 1, NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO PUBLIC RECORDS.
YOU CAN CALL STAFF. RIGHT, THAT'S THE OTHER VERY GOOD POINT IS DEFINITELY YOU CAN CALL STAFF BECAUSE STAFF IS GOING TO BE TESTIFYING. YOU WOULD JUST DISCLOSE THAT I DISCUSSED THIS MATTER WITH STAFF PRIOR TO THE MEETING. JUST DON'T CC THE WHOLE BOARD WHEN YOU DO THAT. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THE DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF CAN BE ON THE PHONE, AND WE'RE GETTING INTO THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, SO THE CHAIR IS VERY QUICKLY AND ACCURATELY ON POINT. ANY OF THE EMAILS WILL BE PUBLIC RECORD YOU'RE GOING TO FIND HERE, SO YOU CAN PICK UP THE PHONE AND DISCUSS, NOT THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO HIDE ANYTHING, BUT THAT'S ONE WAY TO NOT HAVE EVERYBODY COPIED.
BUT ANY COMMUNICATION IS GOING TO BE A PUBLIC RECORD. SO, THIS IS FOUND IN ARTICLE 1, SECTION 24 OF THE FLORIDA...
CONSTITUTION AND IS CODIFIED IN CHAPTER 119. AND THIS AGAIN APPLIES TO THIS BOARD, ALL GOVERNMENTS, DISTRICTS, MUNICIPALITIES, COUNTIES, STATE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES.
NOW HERE, THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW DOES APPLY TO STATE DEPARTMENTS. THE SUNSHINE LAW THE LEGISLATURE ENACTED AND THEN PROMPTLY, YOU KNOW, EXEMPTED THEMSELVES FROM IT SO THEY CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER. WHAT IS A PUBLIC RECORD? WE ARE BACK TO ANY OF YOUR TEXT MESSAGES. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE IF YOU'RE TEXTING
[01:00:01]
ABOUT BOARD BUSINESS, WHETHER IT'S WITH STAFF OR MYSELF. ANY TEXT MESSAGES THAT ARE NOT VIOLATING THE SUNSHINE, AND IN ANY, THAT ANY TEXT MESSAGE YOU SEND IS A RECORD. YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING THOSE. IF A RECORDS REQUEST WAS MADE, YOU'D BE ASKED TO GET US YOUR EMAILS, TEXT MESSAGES THAT YOU HAVE SENT.SO YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING TRACK OF THOSE.
YOUR CALENDAR, ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE USING TO FURTHER YOUR GOVERNMENT BUSINESS, COULD BECOME A PUBLIC RECORD.
AS FAR AS YOU, MOST OF MY BOARDS DON'T HANDLE THE RECORDS REQUEST THEMSELVES. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY RARE THAT YOU INDIVIDUALLY GET A RECORDS REQUEST. BUT IF YOU DID, THE PERSON REQUESTING IT DOESN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION. SO THAT'S WHERE IT DOESN'T USUALLY HAPPEN IN YOUR SITUATION.
BUT SOMEBODY CAN WALK UPSTAIRS TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE, NOT IDENTIFY THEMSELVES, SAY, I WANT THESE RECORDS, I'LL BE BACK AT 3 O'CLOCK TOMORROW TO PICK THEM UP. I WILL PAY TO HAVE THEM REPRODUCE SOMEWHERE, OR I'M JUST GOING TO TAKE A DIGITAL AND THEY JUST SAY, OKAY, WE'LL HAVE THEM READY.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ANY INFORMATION.
OBVIOUSLY, IF SOMEONE ASKED YOU FOR A RECORD, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION IN ORDER FOR YOU TO GET BACK IN TOUCH WITH THEM. SO THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANTED TO STAY ANONYMOUS, YOU COULD TELL THEM TO COME TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE.
MOSTLY, WE DON'T WANT YOU TO PASS THEM OFF ON SOMEBODY ELSE UNLESS YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO HELP THEM. YOU SHOULD DO YOUR BEST TO TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO THE RECORD, AND IF THEY'RE WILLING TO GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO RESPOND BACK TO THEM, THAT YOU'LL HELP THEM. SO WE CANNOT SAY TO THEM, WE'LL PASS THAT THROUGH TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE TO GET TO YOU? YOU COULD SAY, PASS THAT THROUGH. WHAT YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO SAY IS, I CAN'T HELP YOU, GO CALL THE CLERK, RIGHT? SO PASS THAT THROUGH IS A MUCH BETTER LANGUAGE. I WILL MAKE SURE THIS GETS TO THE APPROPRIATE PERSON.
I'M NOT THE BEST PERSON TO HELP YOU WITH THIS. LET ME PASS THIS THROUGH. AND THEN, YES, THEN YOU WOULD COPY MS. PEARSON AND THE CLERK'S OFFICE.
AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE TO SEND IT, MS. PEARSON WOULD.
SOMEONE IN YOUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT OR MY OFFICE. WE USE JUSTFOIA, WHICH IS AN ONLINE SYSTEM, SO PEOPLE CAN GO ONLINE AND CLICK THAT LINK AND FILL OUT THEIR OWN RECORDS REQUEST.
THEY GET ASSIGNED A NUMBER AND THEN AN EMAIL POPS UP WHEN THEIR RECORDS REQUEST IS AVAILABLE. AND HERE'S THE DO'S AND DON'TS. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO RECEIVE THE RECORD? I WILL RESPOND TO THAT REQUEST PROMPTLY. WE SHOULD ADD A THIRD BILLET. I WILL GET THIS TO THE APPROPRIATE PERSON TO HELP YOU. DON'T SAY YOU HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO FILL THIS OUT. AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE I NEED YOUR NAME AND NUMBER WOULD ONLY BE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T REALLY HELP THEM IF THEY DON'T GIVE THAT TO YOU.
SO IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT. AND IF THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO TELL YOU THAT, THEN YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO SAY, THEN MAYBE VISIT CITY HALL. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T RESPOND TO THEM IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION.
AND THEY COME IN ALL FORMS. YOU PROBABLY, AGAIN, WILL NOT DEAL WITH THIS AS MUCH, BUT THEY CAN ASK FOR, PEOPLE CAN JUST COME IN AND VERBALLY ASK FOR THEM.
THEY CAN SEND EMAILS IN. THEY CAN LEAVE A LITTLE NOTE WITH...
MS. BEST AT A CITY COMMISSION MEETING, I WANT EVERYTHING THAT WAS TURNED IN TONIGHT. SO IT CAN COME IN ANY FORM. AND ALSO IT'S LIKE, THE ANSWER, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING. THAT'S RESPONDING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING. WELL, RIGHT, RIGHT.
WHEN YOU'RE REQUESTED, IF SOMEONE SENDS YOU, IF EITHER THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT OR THE CLERK'S OFFICE, OR ANY CITY DEPARTMENT SAYS, DO YOU HAVE ANY RECORDS? RESPONDING MEANS I HAVE NONE.
YES, IF YOU REALLY HAVE NONE, THEN YOU HAVE NONE. IF YOU HAVE NO TAX. IF YOU HAVE NO EMAILS OR ANYTHING RELATED TO IT, THEN YOU WOULD RESPOND, I HAVE NONE. AND AGAIN, THE FINES ARE UP TO $500, SUSPENSION AND REMOVAL OR IMPEACHMENT, FIRST-DEGREE MISDEMEANOR, UP TO ONE YEAR IN PRISON, AND A $1,000 FINE.
AND ANY PERSON WHO HAS BEEN DENIED THE RIGHT TO INSPECT THE RECORD CAN BRING A CIVIL ACTION TO ENFORCE THE STATUTE. AND IT'S AN ACTION THAT IT HAS AN IMMEDIATE HEARING, WHICH MEANS IT'S A SUMMARY PROCEEDING.
GENERALLY, THOSE HAVE TO BE HEARD WITHIN FIVE BUSINESS DAYS.
VERY FEW CASES HAVE THAT PRIVILEGE, AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM, TYPE OF CASE.
RESOURCES IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, MY OFFICE, AND, OF COURSE, MISS BEST'S OFFICE, THE STATUTES THAT I REFERENCED ARE SEARCHABLE. I'M SURE YOU'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT AND THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY GOOD AGO OPINIONS.
ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINIONS IF YOU KNOW, GOOGLE THE TOPIC YOU'RE THINKING OF, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION SITE WILL COME UP. THEY HAVE THEM BY YEAR, VERY EASY TO SEARCH.
[01:05:02]
AVAILABLE IN PDF. I HAVE THE PHYSICAL ONE AND THEN AND THERE ARE TRAINING RESOURCES. OUR COMMISSION IS REQUIRED.TO TAKE FOUR HOURS OF TRAINING.
BUT I CAN CERTAINLY, WE CAN FORWARD TO YOU, I THINK THERE'S ONE NEXT WEDNESDAY, YOU KNOW, IF ANYBODY'S INTERESTED, THERE ARE ALWAYS SOME ONLINE TRAINING COURSES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO BOARD MEMBERS IF THEY'D LIKE TO TAKE THEM ON.
SUNSHINE. LAW AND PUBLIC RECORDS. AND IN THOSE COURSES, IF YOU ATTEND THEM LIVE, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO RAISE YOUR HAND AND ASK QUESTIONS. AND THE LEAGUE OF CITIES GENERALLY PUTS THEM ON, AND AN ATTORNEY PRESENTS IT.
HERE'S MY QUESTION. I'VE BEEN UNDERNEATH THE SUNSHINE WALL IN THE PAST, AND WE WERE ABLE TO, AND IT MAY BE DIFFERENT FOR THIS COMMISSION, BUT THE CITY COMMISSION THAT I WAS ON, WE COULD POST. 48 HOURS PRIOR THAT WE WERE GOING TO MEET WITH ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER TO DISCUSS THE FOLLOWING BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. IT WAS POSTED, AND THEN WE HAD TO DO IT IN THE PUBLIC, AND ANYONE COULD ATTEND AND LISTEN. AND WERE YOU IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA? YES.
OKAY. YEAH, I MEAN, YES. I THINK THAT, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH STAFF. IF YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT, THEN YOU WOULD NOTICE IT. YOU WOULD HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF KEEPING MINUTES, AND YOU WOULD BE IN A SETTING WHERE PEOPLE CAN HEAR AND ASK QUESTIONS AND PARTICIPATE.
THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING. AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH SOME OF THE PLANNING CHARRETTES.
NOW THEN, THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE, BUT THEY WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO LISTEN TO THE PARK. OR TOTAL CONVERSATIONS WE KEPT. IT WAS ONLY ON THE SUBJECT POSTED. WE HAD TO KEEP OUR NOTES AND THEN TURN THEM INTO THE CITY CLERK. AND WITH THIS BOARD SPECIFICALLY, I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, AND SO YOUR TIME TO DEBATE IT AND DISCUSS IT IS HERE. I THINK IT WOULD IMPAIR AND OPEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHALLENGE. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BOARD LIKE A CITY COMMISSION DO THAT.
I'VE SEEN PLANNING BOARDS, LIKE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WHEN THE WHOLE PLANNING BOARD WANTS TO GO ATTEND SOMETHING ABOUT ONE OF THE COMMUNITY EVENTS. YOU KNOW, WOULD WE NOTICE IT AND MAKE IT MORE OF A MEETING SO THAT THEY CAN TALK AND FEEL FREE TO TALK AMONG EACH OTHER? BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN A COMMISSION DO THAT. I THINK IT WOULD MEET THE CRITERIA.
BUT IT SOUNDS DANGEROUS. BUT FOR THIS BOARD, I DON'T THINK IT'S WISE. I JUST, BUT HE ASKED THAT QUESTION. I JUST, AND WE DID IT. OCCASIONALLY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU HAVE CITY BUSINESSES, SOME THINGS HAVE TO GET DONE. AND YOU TALK TO SOMEONE. AND I CAN TELL YOU, WE ALWAYS HAD TWO OR THREE PEOPLE ATTEND, WHICH IS GREAT, FINALLY. MORE PEOPLE, IN MY OPINION, MORE EYES, MORE EARS, THE SAFER YOU ARE.
WELL, AND THROUGH THE CHAIR, WE... WE'RE A CITY MANAGER, STRONG FORM OF GOVERNMENT, SO I THINK WITH A STRONG COMMISSION FORM OF GOVERNMENT, YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME SUBCOMMITTEES MEETING A LOT. YEAH. TWO-FERS. WE'RE A STRONG COMMISSION. YEAH, AND IN THAT CASE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THOSE, OR YOU'D NEVER GET ANYTHING DONE. HERE WE ARE A CITY MANAGER RUN, SO THAT WAY THE COMMISSION CAN MEET, GIVE DIRECTION, AND SET POLICY. AND THEN YOU DO HAVE ACCESS TO STAFF, WHICH HELPS, TOO. ALL RIGHT, I WANTED TO ADD OR CLOSE WITH ONE THING, IF I CAN. ARE YOU ALL BOTH DONE? SO, LAST MARKET, WE LOST OUR MAIN LEGAL EXPERTISE WITH HER RESPONSES TO THESE CASES. SHE WOULD FORMULATE A FOUR-PAGE ESSAY ABOUT WHAT SHE FELT STRONGLY ABOUT THE CASE. WHICH SHE COULDN'T SHARE WITH ANYONE.
NO, BUT SHE WROTE, AND SHE WAS VERY ARTICULATE.
SHE DID ALL OF HER RESEARCH. I ONLY ASKED THIS BOARD AND THOSE THAT ARE LEFT. I'VE SEEN ALL THE RIGHT MEN, LIKE, SEVEN TIMES. DOES THAT HELP AT ALL? THAT HELPS. OKAY, GOOD.
YOU'VE SEEN WHAT? ALL THE RIGHT MEN. OH, OKAY. SORRY. I'M RIGHT THERE. I'M ALMOST A LAWYER. MY POINT IS, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO BE THOROUGH WITH OUR, WHAT'S THAT RESPONSE CALLED? RESEARCH? NO. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, I, WHAT'S THE...
MOTION? MOTION. MOTION. THANK YOU. I COULD NOT THINK OF THE WORD. WE NEED TO BE THOROUGH WITH OUR MOTION BECAUSE WE HAD, UM, BEFORE MARGARET, BEFORE FAITH... WE HAD MOTIONS THAT WERE ALWAYS IN AND MS. BACH WOULD ALWAYS TELL US, ARTICULATE BETTER, PUT YOUR WORDS BETTER. FRAME IT IN A WAY THAT IT COULD BE PUT INTO LEGAL EASE. MARGARET AND FAITH COMPLETELY REVERSED THAT, AND THEY WOULD MAKE IT SO STRONG AND ARTICULATE. YOU
[01:10:03]
WOULD LISTEN TO THEM, AND I WOULD JUST BE IN AWE. SO I ASKED THE BOARD, PLEASE, WHEN YOU'RE STARTING TO PUT YOUR THOUGHTS TOGETHER ON CASES, AND WE MAKE A MOTION, UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE BEING ASKED, LOOK AT THE FACTS, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, AND IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PREPARE, LEGALLY OR NOT. I'M NOT ILLEGAL. I'M AN ARCHITECT, SO I HAVE MY ROLE. BUT I ASK THAT YOU GUYS COME PREPARED.THAT'S ALL I CAN ASK. MAYBE WE SHOULD BUY MARGARET A PIECE OF FINE COFFEE ONCE IN A WHILE. SO I NOTICED WHEN WE WOULD MAKE MOTIONS DURING THE CITY COMMISSION MEETING, CITY ATTORNEY BACH WOULD STEP IN AND GO. THEY DON'T HAVE A LIGHT SYSTEM BACK THERE. I DON'T SEE LIGHTS.
BUT JUST AS A SIDE THING, THE PROCEDURES HERE, IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK, HOW DO WE GET... JUST ASK. YOU JUST SAY, HEY... I'LL LOOK AT EVERY ONE OF YOU GUYS, AND IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TO SAY, I CAN READ YOUR EYES.
OKAY, GOTCHA. SO SHE WOULD SAY, A MOTION WOULD BE MADE, AND HER LIGHT WOULD COME ON.
AND I ALWAYS WAITED, AND THERE'S A SECOND BEFORE I CALLED THE VOTE, AND I WOULD LOOK AND MAKE SURE HER LIGHT... AND SHE WOULD GO, JUST TO REITERATE, FOR LEGALESE... CAN YOU EXPLAIN IN YOUR MOTION, AND THEY WOULD GO BACK AND REMAKE THE MOTION, DO YOU DO THAT? WOULD YOU STOP US AND GO, HOLD ON, THAT'S VAGUE, CAN WE ADJUST THIS WITHOUT TELLING YOU WHAT TO SAY, BUT JUST GIVE A LITTLE MORE GUIDANCE? YES, THROUGH THE CHAIR, YES, I WILL DO THAT. AND I WOULD ALSO REMIND YOU, AS WELL PREPARED AS THOSE LADIES MAY HAVE BEEN, AND AS WELL PREPARED AS YOU COME, YOU ARE COMING WITH AN OPEN MIND. SO, YOU MAY HEAR SOMETHING THAT CHANGES THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COME WITH A PREPARED MOTION. YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD, YOU KNOW YOU MIGHT HEAR SOMETHING AT THE MEETING THAT CHANGES THAT PERCEPTION AS WELL. SO, YOU DO WANT TO COME WITH AN OPEN MIND, AND YES, WE WOULD HELP YOU. AND YOU CAN ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE STAFF REPORT AND YOU CAN MAKE MOTIONS THAT RELY ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OBJECTIVES OUTLINED BY STAFF AND THEIR STAFF REPORT.
AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIST THEM, YOU KNOW, JUST SOME WAYS TO FIND.
ONE THING I ALWAYS APPRECIATED WITH MARGARET, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT BECAUSE I NEVER SAW HER CHEAT SHEET, BUT I HAD SEEN MARGARET'S, AND SHE HAD A FOUR AND A GUESS. SHE HAD BOTH.
SHE'S IN DREADING, BUT SHE HAD ALL OF HER PREPARATORY STUFF, WHICH IS WHY IT WAS FOUR PAGES.
SHE WAS FASCINATING. SHE DID A FASCINATING JOB. I JUST WANTED TO EXPRESS THAT. I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S TIME AND SERVICE ON THE BOARD, AND WE'RE HERE TO SERVICE THE PUBLIC, AND WE WILL CONTINUE DOING A GOOD JOB.
WE DO HAVE SOME CASES THAT WE'LL BE DISCUSSING, BUT WE WILL HAVE A MEETING NEXT MONTH, I BELIEVE. WE HAVE A CASE. IT WILL BE A GOOD ONE, I THINK, TO START SOME OF THESE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND THEN POTENTIALLY ANOTHER ONE.
GOODBYE. EXCITING OR GOOD LUCK? EASY.
WHAT'S THE DATE ON THAT? DO WE HAVE A DATE YET? YEAH, THE NEXT MEETING IS MARCH, THE 3RD, WEDNESDAY.
YEAH, 3RD WEDNESDAY. I THINK PROBABLY THE SAME DATE AS TODAY. I THINK ALL THE MEETINGS SEEM TO BE FOLLOWING ON THE SAME DATE.
YES, FEBRUARY AND MARCH, AS MS. PEARSON HAS POINTED OUT TO ME, HAS ALL THE SAME DAYS IN IT. THE 18TH WAS A WEDNESDAY IN FEBRUARY, AND IT'S A WEDNESDAY THIS MONTH. SO, IT'S REALLY. IT'S CONCERNING.
BUT YEAH, THE THIRD WEDNESDAY OF EVERY MONTH. SO THE 18TH AND THEN THE 15TH OF APRIL. THE 18TH OF APRIL. 18TH IS LIKE...
JEEZ, 15TH OF APRIL, OH MY GOD. NO, NO, TAX DAY. AND THEN THE 20TH OF MAY. SO YEAH, THE THIRD WEDNESDAY OF EVERY MONTH. AT THE 5 P.M.
YES. ANY FURTHER BUSINESS? ALL RIGHT, I'LL CLOSE TODAY'S MEETING.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.