[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM] [00:00:06] >> THANKS. CHAIR POZZETTA? >> PRESENT. >> MEMBER COSTA? >> MEMBER SARSA SCHALLER? >> HERE. >> MEMBER BURNS? >> HERE. >> MEMBER POZZETTA. >> HERE. >> THANK YOU. PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> >> VERY GOOD. WE HAVE NO QUASI-JUDICIAL CASES ON OUR AGENDA TODAY. [3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES] I WILL GO STRAIGHT TO THE APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES. DID EVERYBODY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ THROUGH THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING? >> YES. >> ANY CHANGES? >> NO. >> CAN WE JUST TAKE A HAND VOTE OF APPROVAL? ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THESE MINUTES. PLEASE, SAY AYE? >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSITION? NONE. THE MEETING MINUTES ARE APPROVED. >> WE NEED TO DO EXPERT. >> WELL, NOW, DO WE NEED TO DO THAT? WE DON'T HAVE ANY QUASI-JUDICIAL CASES. >> WE DON'T HAVE ANY QUASI-JUDICIAL CASES, AT THIS TIME. MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, I'M FINE WITH US NOT DOING THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES. >> WE ALSO DON'T DO THE EX-PARTE? >> I'M SORRY, AND THE EX-PARTE? >> GOT YOU. >> YES. >> FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE UNAWARE, WHEN WE HAVE A CASE THAT'S TO BE DECIDED BY THE HDC, WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANYBODY WE'VE MAYBE SPOKEN TO OUTSIDE OF THE PUBLIC ABOUT THE CASE, AND THAT'S CALLED EX-PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. IF WE HAVE THAT TYPE OF CASE, OUR ATTORNEY ALSO EXPLAINS THE PROCEDURES AND ASKS YOU TO BE SWORN IN BEFORE YOU TESTIFY. WE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND TODAY, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT PART. WE DON'T HAVE OLD BUSINESS, NEW BUSINESS, WE HAVE ALL BOARD BUSINESS. [6.1 City Manager's Office Update on Downtown and Waterfront] THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE UPDATE ON DOWNTOWN AND THE WATERFRONT. MR. AKRONOV, IS THAT YOU? I BELIEVE SO. >> LENA AKRONOV, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF A NUMBER OF THINGS, AND THEN THE OTHER DEPUTY CITY MANAGER GLISSON WILL COME UP AND GIVE YOU ON A LOT OF THIS STUFF. BUT I WANT TO GIVE YOU A QUICK UPDATE ON THE SEA WALL AND THE AND BRETT'S. BOTH OF THEM WILL BE BEFORE YOU, IN YOUR MARCH MEETING, FOR WHATEVER PROCESS THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH FOR BOTH OF THOSE. WE'LL BE FILLING OUT ALL THE PAPERWORK AND GETTING THAT TO YOU. THOSE ARE PROGRESSING REALLY WELL. WE ARE HOPING TO BID WE GOT LOTS OF PERMITS OUT THERE, OF COURSE. BUT PENDING PERMITS, WE'RE HOPING TO GO TO BID ON SEGMENT 1 OF THE SEAWALL AS EARLY AS LATE MARCH, AND BRETT THE DEMO AND RECONFIGURATION OF THE MARINA, WE'RE HOPING TO GO TO BID AS EARLY AS LATE APRIL. THERE'S A LOT OF ACTION HAPPENING DOWN THERE. I ALSO WANT TO UPDATE YOU BECAUSE I KNOW THE COMMUNITY IS VERY INTERESTED IN, AND YOU'VE HAD A BIG STAKE IN THE WATERFRONT PARK. I KNOW WE HAVEN'T SEEN A TON OF ACTION. THERE HAS BEEN SOME, BUT IT'S BEEN VERY SUBTLE. YOU WILL SEE THE GROUNDWORK BEGIN ON MONDAY. IN EARNEST, WE HAD TO WORK OUT A NUMBER OF DETAILS ON SOIL REMEDIATION DOWN THERE BECAUSE THE SOILS ARE NOT GREAT FOR TREES AND LANDSCAPING, WHICH IS REALLY THE CORE OF THIS PROJECT. WE ALSO IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION NEXT WEEK, WE HAVE OUR TREE CONTRACTOR TO PUT THE TREES IN. ONCE THE PENDING APPROVAL, WE WILL GET STARTED ON PUTTING THOSE TREES ABOUT THREE WEEKS FROM NOW. GIVE OR TAKE A LITTLE BIT, DEPENDING ON THE SOIL REMEDIATION PIECE. WE ARE WORKING ALSO ON A LOT OF MOVING PARTS. THERE'S HARD SCAPE TO GO IN, THERE'S BALLERS, THERE'S LIGHTING, THERE'S PAVERS. THERE'S A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT THE CITY HAS TAKEN CARE OF, PLAY STRUCTURE. WE'RE MOVING A NUMBER OF MONUMENTS AND THINGS IN THERE AS WELL. ALL OF THAT IS IN THE PLANNING STAGE. MOST OF OUR FURNITURE AND THOSE THINGS ARE ALREADY HERE. THEY'RE JUST WAITING FOR EVERYTHING TO FINISH. WE ARE ANTICIPATING BEING AT SUBSTANTIAL COMPLETION BEGINNING OF MARCH, [00:05:04] WHICH IS A LITTLE LATE FROM THE ORIGINAL SCHEDULE, BUT NOT THAT FAR OFF. PROBABLY THAT'S ONLY A COUPLE OF WEEKS, EVEN THOUGH IT FEELS IT'S BEEN FOREVER. THAT'S THE CONTRACT TERMS. THAT'S WHERE ALL OF THAT IS, AND THEN JUST IT'S NOT REALLY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO YOU IS THAT WE ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE MLK BALL FIELD AND RECONSTRUCTION OF THAT AREA. YOU WON'T SEE THAT ONE. THAT'S NOT WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS GOING ON. I'LL HAND IT OFF. >> CAN I JUST ASK A QUESTION? >> SURE. >> WHEN YOU SAY MOVE FORWARD WITH THE MLK BALL FIELDS, THE RE-FIELDS, IS VLADY INCLUDED IN THAT? >> VLADY IS INCLUDED IN THAT PROCESS. IT'LL BE TWO FIELDS ON SITE AND A REFURBISHMENT OF VLADY FIELDS, YES. >> THANK YOU. THEY'RE DOUBLE WHAMMY IN US. >> GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL. I SEE WE HAVE A FEW THINGS HERE TO TALK ABOUT. I'LL TAKE THEM IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER HERE, PEG LEG PETE. WE'RE STILL HAVE A CAMPAIGN ONGOING TO RAISE FUNDS FOR THE RESTORATION. IT'S NOT LOOKING WELL. WE'RE ONLY ABOUT LESS THAN $2,000 FOR THAT RESTORATION. THE STATUTE STILL LOCATED AT THE MUSEUM ON A SHORT-TERM AGREEMENT. WE HAVE TO THE END OF FEBRUARY TO MAKE A DECISION THAT CAMPAIGN IS RUNS TO THE END OF FEBRUARY, AND THEN WE'LL NEED TO MAKE A DECISION ON USING CITY FUNDS TO COMPLETE THE RESTORATION, OR TO FIND A PERMANENT HOME THERE AT THE MUSEUM. WE'LL CIRCLE BACK WHEN WE KNOW MORE INFORMATION ON THAT. I KNOW WE DO WANT SOME FEEDBACK ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH THE BASE IF PEG LEG DOESN'T COME BACK. RELATED TO PEG LEG, WHAT YOU'LL SEE THAT THE NEXT FEBRUARY MEETING IS AN APPLICATION FOR THE NEWLY CARVED STATUTE. BE COMMISSIONED BY THE PIRATES CLUB, AND THAT WILL BE COMING TO YOU FOR REVIEW AND THAT WAS THE JET PAXTON STATUTE, COMING TO YOU FEBRUARY FOR CONSIDERATION WITH THE PEDESTAL CONCRETE BASE. THIS IS FOR INTRODUCTION TO THE WATERFRONT PARK, AND WE HAVE A DESIGNATED AREA THERE RIGHT BY THE CHILDREN'S PLAY AREA. THAT WOULD BE A GOOD POTENTIAL HOME FORM. THAT PEDESTAL BASE WOULD BE DESIGNED VERY SIMPLE CONCRETE BASE AND TO DISCOURAGE CLIMBING, AND WE'LL COORDINATE WITH OUR ENGINEER ON THE DESIGN OF THAT BASE TO MAKE SURE IT SUPPORTS THE STRUCTURE APPROPRIATELY. AS MENTIONED, THAT WILL COME TO YOU AT THE NEXT MEETING, PART OF THAT WILL BE THE AGREEMENT THAT LEGALS HELPING US ON FOR A LONG-TERM MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT FOR PUBLIC ART. THAT'S UNDERWAY AS WELL. I SEE THAT'S ON THERE. THE SAFETY CRITERIA FOR PUBLIC ART. RELATED TO DOWNTOWN, JUST SOME THINGS THAT CAME TO MIND THAT GLISSON BROUGHT TO THE ATLANTIC SEAFOOD FACILITY DOWN THERE. WE JUST GOT WORD TODAY THAT THE FDEP PERMIT HAS BEEN APPROVED. NOW PUNTS BACK TO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. IT'S BEEN A LENGTHY PROCESS JUST, BECAUSE 40 SQUARE FOOT OF FACILITY IS OVER THE MANHATTAN WATER LINE THAT DID REQUIRE ARMY CORPS PERMIT. OF COURSE WE'RE WAIT A MINUTE, WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM FERNEY IN A WHILE, NOW YOU GOT THREE PERMITS. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. THEY'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING IN COORDINATION WITH THE OTHER PERMITS, AS YOU MENTIONED, DEMOLITION OF BRETT AND THE SEA WALL. WE HOPE TO HAVE SOMETHING SOON, BUT IT'S BEEN A LITTLE CHALLENGING BETWEEN THE HOLIDAYS, THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN, THINGS AREN'T MOVING FAST ON THE ARMY CORPS SIDE OF THINGS, BUT THEY ARE MOVING. WE SHOULD HAVE A PERMIT SOON FOR THAT. THEN AS YOU'VE ALREADY PROVIDED, APPROVAL FOR DEMOLITION, SO WE'LL MOVE FORWARD QUICKLY WITH THE DEMOLITION OF THAT STRUCTURE. PAID PARKING. AS YOU ALL ARE AWARE, IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGING IMPLEMENTATION. WE HAVE LITIGATION INVOLVED, AND THAT'S CAUSED SOME PAUSES AND SOME IN OUR IMPLEMENTATION. WE DO HAVE THE SIGNAGE SURVEY THAT WILL BE COMPLETE THIS FRIDAY, WHEN PARKING IS COMING BACK TO DO THAT, AND THEN WE SHOULD HAVE THAT PLAN IN PLACE IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER. THE LIVE DATE FOR PAID PARKING IS GOING TO BE FEBRUARY 16TH. IT'S HAPPENING QUICK. THERE WILL NOT BE ANY FINAL APPROVAL THAT WILL COME TO HTC FOR THE SIGNAGE. A LOT OF THE SIGNAGE FALLS UNDER THE MUTCD THROUGH DOT, PAID PARKING. PARKING SIGNAGE FALLS UNDER THAT GUIDANCE, AND IS REGULATED BY THAT DEPARTMENT. WE WELCOME FEEDBACK ON THE DESIGN, AND WE'VE SHARED THAT DESIGN WITH YOU. BUT AS FAR AS PLACEMENT QUANTITY, AM I MISSING ANYTHING ELSE, TERESA, THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE THAT PURVIEW? >> WHAT DEPUTY CITY MANAGER AND GLISSON AND I DISCUSSED IS BECAUSE IT IS AN ENFORCEMENT SIGN, WHICH WE HAD SOME INDICATION ABOUT WE FOLLOW THE GUIDANCE OF THE MUTCD, [00:10:03] BUT ALSO BECAUSE IT'S ENFORCEMENT, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE COLORS, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE DESIGN. NOW, THE DESIGN DOES HAVE AN ORDER THAT THEY SUGGEST WE PUT THINGS IN. EVEN IF YOU WANT US TO REARRANGE IT, THAT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE LIMITED, AND THEN HEIGHT AND ANGLE AND LOCATION, AS MR. GLISSON HAS SAID. YOUR PURVIEW IS LIMITED, AND I THINK WHAT THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER IS SAYING IS, WE DO WANT YOUR FEEDBACK ON IT TO THE EXTENT WE CAN. BUT IT IS ENFORCEMENT, AND BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO BE COLLECTING FEES AND FINES, AND IT'S A LOCAL ORDINANCE, IT FALLS OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF YOU MANDATING HOW MANY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT CERTAINLY YOUR INPUT ON COLOR AND DESIGN. THANK YOU. >> REMEMBER POZZETTA WAS REALLY HELPFUL ON SOME OF OUR INITIAL DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM, ESPECIALLY COPYING OUR WAYFARING SIGNAGE TO HAVE A SIMILAR LOOKING FIELD THAT IS ON DISPLAY. THEY CAME IN AND IMMEDIATELY REQUESTED TO PUT IT ON OUR STREET LIGHTS, AND WE'RE LIKE, NO, THAT'S A NO CAN DO. CITY SEP WE'LL BE WALKING WITH THEM FRIDAY TO DETERMINE LOCATIONS. THE GOAL IS TO MINIMIZE THE SIGN CLUTTER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. IF WE HAVE EXISTING SIGNS WHERE THE SIGNAGE COULD BE ADDED ON THERE, NOT WAYFARING SIGNAGE, BUT EXISTING LIKE ONE WAY SIGNS. ONE CHALLENGE WITH THIS SIGNAGE THAT'S UNIQUE TO THE PAD PARKING IS IT SERVES TWO PURPOSES. IT IS FOR DRIVER BEHAVIOR AND PEDESTRIAN BEHAVIOR. THIS IS A SIGN THAT'S UNIQUE THAT AS YOU TURN DOWN THE STREET, YOU NEED TO KNOW THERE'S PAID PARKING PAY PARKING ON THAT STREET OR IN THAT LOT, THAT'S FOR DRIVER INFORMATION. ONCE YOU GOT GET OUT, YOU HAVE TO ACCESS THAT SIGN FOR PAYMENT PURPOSES. IT NEEDS TO SERVE A TWOFOLD PURPOSE. THERE'S SOME SAFETY CONCERNS WITH THAT, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE THE SIGN AT THE STREET CORNER, YOU DON'T WANT THE PERSON PARKING STANDING THERE IN THE INTERSECTION TO TYPE IN THE INFORMATION, TO SCAN THE QR CODE AND ALL, TO MAKE PAYMENT. THE SIGNAGE HAS TO BE ORIENTED IN SUCH A WAY SO IT SERVES BOTH A DRIVER AND A PEDESTRIAN. THERE WILL BE SOME TEMPORARY SIGNAGE THAT GOES TO SAY THAT HEY, PAY PARKING IS COMING, BUT THEN THAT WILL BE REPLACED WITH THE PERMANENT SIGNAGE HERE. ANY MORE INFORMATION THAT WE GET ON THAT, I'LL BE HAPPY TO SHARE. DO WELCOME YOUR FEEDBACK. AS I MENTIONED, THE SURVEY WILL BE DONE FRIDAY, AND THE RESULTS OF THAT SURVEY, WHERE THE SIGNAGE WILL GO, WE'LL SHARE WITH YOU ALL, AND I WELCOME ANY FEEDBACK YOU MIGHT HAVE. WE'VE ALREADY HAD SOME GREAT FEEDBACK, AS I MENTIONED FROM MEMBER POZZETTA, SO ANYTHING YOU MIGHT HAVE, WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM IT. ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT [INAUDIBLE] >> ON THAT ONE, IF I MIGHT, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, AND MR. GLISSON, IF WE GO BACK. ONE THING THAT THEY DID DO, WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH A GENTLEMAN, MIKE TOTIN WHO DOES THE ENFORCEMENT WITH ONE PARKING AND RELYING ON HIS GUIDANCE, AND THE CITY STAFF HAS BEEN WORKING WITH HIM. SO YOU SEE THE ARROWS. THE ARROWS ON THOSE SIGNS UNDER THE MUTCD GUIDELINES, IF I'M USING MY LETTERS RIGHT. THEY ALLOW US TO RATHER THAN HAVING A SIGN AT EVERY SINGLE PARKING SPOT, YANKS. IT SAYS, RATHER THAN DOING THAT, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ARROWS, SO THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING THOSE ARROWS. YOU CAN HAVE ONE IN THE MIDDLE WITH ARROWS GOING EITHER WAY. THAT'S THE GUIDANCE THAT MR. GLISSON SAID WE WOULD BE FOLLOWING AND TO REDUCE THE VISUAL BLIGHT. WE'LL USE THE ARROWING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND PUT IT, AS MR. GLISSON HAS INDICATED IN THE SAFEST PLACES, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THEY GET HIT, STANDING THERE, LOOKING OR SCANNING OR WHATEVER. I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THE DIRECTIONAL, THE ARROWS ARE TO HELP US USE THE LEAST AMOUNT AS POSSIBLE AND NOT HAVE TO HAVE ONE AT EVERY SINGLE SPACE. >> THE SURVEY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE RECEIVING WILL DEFINE HOW MANY? >> HOW MANY WHERE THEY GO? >> ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS? >> I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT IMPLEMENTATION, BECAUSE I KNOW WE APPROVED THE CENTER STREET RENOVATION. ARE WE, AS A COMMUNITY, GOING TO PAY TO PUT THEM IN? THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TEAR THEM DOWN WHEN WE RENOVATE THE WHOLE STREET, PAY TO PUT THEM BACK UP AGAIN? >> THE DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION PROJECT ALL SIGNAGE WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED TO FACILITATE NEW SIDEWALKS AND NEW ELECTRICAL UNDER THAT. WE'RE STILL WAYS OUT FOR THAT FROM THAT PROJECT GETTING UNDERWAY. PART OF THE CHALLENGE, WITH THAT PROJECT, IS HOW YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT. PAID PARKING IS WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED WOULD BE PROVIDE THE REVENUE FOR WHAT YOU COULD PAY A BOND TO FACILITATE THE REVITALIZATION OF THE DOWNTOWN BECAUSE IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE, $12-15 MILLION PROJECT. THE MORE WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE PRICE GOES UP BECAUSE THINGS AREN'T GETTING CHEAPER. YOU'RE RIGHT. ANYTHING THAT GOES IN WOULD COME UP AS PART OF THAT REVITALIZATION. I KNOW WE'RE MEETING HERE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO GET AN UPDATE FROM KIMY HORN ON THAT PROJECT, [00:15:02] AND GLENN WILL BE PREPARED TO COME MEET WITH YOU ALL AND SHOW YOU THOSE 60% PLANS ON THAT AS YOU SAW WITH CENTER STREET. CENTER STREET'S BEEN APPROVED, YOU ALL HAVE DID FINAL APPROVAL. SECOND STREET AS WELL. THEN AS WE MOVE FURTHER TO THE EAST, WE'LL BRING THOSE PLANS TO YOU. IT'LL LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENT BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE THE UNDERGROUNDING OF UTILITIES THAT WAS NEVER DONE FOURTH STREET ON UP THROUGH SEVENTH. SO THAT HAS TO BE COORDINATED WITH FPU TO FACILITATE UNDERGROUND THOSE UTILITIES TO PUT IN TO DO YOUR STREET REVITALIZATION. >> SO, JEREMIAH, YOU DID SAY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO REUSE AS MANY SIGNS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE AS POSSIBLE. >> YES, MA'AM. WE DO HAVE SOME OLD SPACES FROM THE THREE HOUR PARKING SIGNS. THERE'S LIKE 83 HOUR PARKING SIGNS THAT WERE IN THE DOWNTOWN THAT REMOVED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO BECAUSE WE HAD NO ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM. SO THE GOAL IS TO PUT BACK IN THOSE SPOTS WHERE WE CAN. SO YEAH, AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO USE EXISTING SIGNAGE. YOU DON'T WANT TO IMPACT YOUR SENSE OF PLACE WITH JUST A SET OF SIGNS. SO AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S GOT TO BE ENFORCEABLE. SO IT'S GOT TO WORK. YOU GOT TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF YOUR VEHICLE AND KNOW THE SIGNS ARE THERE IN CM. WE ARE LOOKING AT ONE PARKING IS LOOKING AT A POTENTIALLY SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT VERSION OF THIS FOR THE PERIMETER OF THE DOWNTOWN TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF THE INTERSECTION. SO IT WOULD LIKELY BE THIS WITHOUT THE PAYMENT PORTION, SO THERE MIGHT BE THIS WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LARGER, AND THE ACCESS PORTION FOR PEDESTRIANS WOULD GO AWAY BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, YOU DON'T WANT THOSE PEOPLE IN THE INTERSECTIONS, BUT THEN THE SAME LOOKING FEEL FOR WHERE IT WOULD BE PEDESTRIAN ACCESSIBLE. >> GOING WHERE? PAID PARKING? >> CORRECT. RIGHT. BECAUSE PAID PARKING IS NOT FULLY IN THE DOWNTOWN. IT'S IN THAT RECTANGLE. SO TO DELINEATE BETWEEN THAT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT LOOK, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT MESSAGING. SAME LOOK, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT MESSAGING FOR THE BOUNDARY. SO WHEN YOU TURN ON 2ND STREET, YOU KNOW, THERE'S PAID PARKING DOWN THE STREET, BUT THEN TO GO TO PAY TO PARK, YOU WOULD ACCESS THE SIGNS WOULD LOOK SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FOR YOUR PAYMENT OPTIONS. >> SO JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS. THESE SIGNS ARE IT. THERE WILL NOT BE METERS OR KIOSKS OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT GO WITH THEM? >> CORRECT. THERE ARE NO METERS. THERE ARE NO KIOSKS. IT'S A FULLY MOBILE ACCESS SYSTEM. SO THE TECHNOLOGY IS THERE THAT'S FULLY DONE THROUGH A MOBILE DEVICE. THERE'S A PHONE NUMBER HERE THAT YOU CAN CALL IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SMARTPHONE TO MAKE A PAYMENT, BUT THERE ARE NO METERS, THERE ARE NO KIOSKS. >> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THIS? >> I HAD A FEW MORE THINGS, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, TO ADD. ONE IS, I WASN'T GOING TO START WITH THIS, BUT AS DEPUTY MANAGER LISTON IS STATING, THE INTERESTING THING THAT I THOUGHT ABOUT THE MUTCD IS IT DOES PROVIDE FOR THE FACT THAT YOU NOW MOBILE PAY, YOU CALL TO PAY. SO THAT'S WHERE THESE SIGNS CAME FROM IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE METERS, THEN YOU USE THESE ARROWS, YOU USE THIS TYPE OF SIGNAGE. I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THE MUTCD HAS CAUGHT UP. THAT'S INTERESTING. AND THEN ON THE BOND QUESTION, JUST SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION AS TO, LIKE, WELL, THE PERCEPTION OF WASTE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. BUT IT TAKES TIME TO ESTABLISH REVENUE STREAMS BEFORE YOU CAN BOND A PROJECT. SO IT'S NOT AS IF IN SIX MONTHS, WE COULD RUN OUT AND BOND A PROJECT. THERE'S VARYING DEGREES OF YEARS THAT YOU NEED, BUT THERE IS A TIME PERIOD BEFORE YOU CAN BOND MONEY TO PROVE THE INCOME STREAM. SO IT'S NOT AS IF THE SIGNS WOULD GO IN IMMEDIATELY, AND THEN WE WOULD BE ABLE TO START THE PROJECT AND RIP THEM OUT SIX MONTHS FROM NOW. SO JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE UPDATE ON THAT, THERE WILL BE SOME LAG TIME, AS DEPUTY GLISSON SPOKE OF, BUT NOT JUST BECAUSE OF NEEDING THE MONEY, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO PROVE UP THE MONEY. >> IF WE'RE DONE WITH THAT TOPIC, I'D LIKE TO CIRCLE AROUND AND ASK ANOTHER QUESTION. PEG LEG PETE. >> YES, MA'AM. >> YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE IS A GOFUNDME OR SOME ASK FOR MONEY? >> YES, MA'AM. >> THEY DO RESTORATION. IF THAT MONEY DOES NOT SHOW UP. >> THEN THE FUNDS WILL GO TO THE MUSEUM TO SUPPORT THE SUSTAINED PRESERVATION OF PEG LEG PETE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> COMPLETELY UNRELATED, JUST CAME TO MIND WHILE I'M HERE. THE LIGHTHOUSE. YOU ALL APPROVED THE RESTORATION OF THE LIGHTHOUSE HERE A YEAR AGO, AND WE HAD A GRANT, DID AN EXTENSIVE EXTERIOR RENOVATION. WE DID NOT WIN THE GRANT FOR THIS YEAR, [00:20:03] BUT WE DID STILL SET ASIDE SOME FUNDS FOR DOING SOME INTERIOR WORK. YOU ALL APPROVED THAT, AS DID THE STATE, THAT THREE YEAR PHASE RESTORATION. BUT WE WILL BE MOVING FORWARD HERE SOON WITH SOME INTERIOR WORK, WINDOW SILLS ON THE INSIDE. AND IF YOU RECALL, THE INSIDE WAS PAINTED AND REMOVING THAT PAINT FROM THE BRICK, SO IT CAN BREATHE. THAT WAS ALL PART OF THAT RESTORATION. SO WHILE NOT FUNDED BY THE GRANT, WE'RE STILL DOING WHAT WE CAN TO MAINTAIN THE OLDEST BUILDING IN THE CITY, AND WE'VE APPLIED FOR NEXT YEAR AS WELL TO SEE IF WE CAN CONTINUE THE RESTORATION OF THAT ICONIC STRUCTURE. SO JUST A LITTLE UPDATE ON THAT. WE WILL BE CLOSING IT DOWN FOR A LITTLE BIT TO DO SOME OF THE INTERIOR WORK, BUT IT SHOULD BE OPEN AGAIN PRETTY QUICKLY. >> CLOSING IT TO THE PUBLIC? >> CORRECT. WE HOPE THAT'S OUTSIDE OF OUR CONTROL. BUT YEAH, HOW MANY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS KEEP THE LIGHT ON? [LAUGHTER] I DON'T KNOW. >> HOTEL SIX. I JUST LOOK BACK AT THAT. [6.2 Time Capsule Discussion] ARE WE GOING TO DISCUSS THE TIME CAPSULE DISCUSSION? SO IT'S IN THE BASE. >> YES, MA'AM. >> WHERE PEG LEG PETE WAS, RIGHT? >> YEAH. >> IF THE PIRATE DOES NOT GO BACK, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT? NOT TO COMPLICATE THINGS. WE STILL HAVE A HORSE TROUGH WE NEED TO FIND A HOME FOR. BUT THEN WE'LL SAY THAT FOR ANOTHER MEETING. >> YES, WE WILL. BUT WE STILL HAVE THAT TROUGH? >> WE DO. >> AND CARRIAGE STEPS. >> AND THE STEPS THAT GO WITH IT, YEAH. >> NO HORSES, BUT WE HAVE THE TROUGH IN THE STEPS. [LAUGHTER] >> WELL, WHO KNOWS? HOLD IT, THEY WILL COME. THE BIG QUESTION THAT THE CITY HAS IS, IF PEG LEG PETE DOES NOT COME BACK TO ITS PLACE AT THE DEPOT, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS THING? WHAT'S THE CONDITION OF THAT? THOSE LOOK LIKE ROCKS HANGING OUT ON THE GROUND AND NOT PART OF IT, IS THAT RIGHT? >> WELL, THE NORTHEAST. YOU HAD SOME THAT WERE MOVED TO FACILITATE THE REMOVAL OF PEG LA BECAUSE THEY WERE PILED UP AROUND HIS FEET. SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE ON THE GROUND IN THAT BOTTOM RIGHT PHOTO. THE TIME CAPSULE IS WHAT'S IN THAT BLACK BOX BEHIND THE PLAQUE THERE BUILT INTO IT. RELOCATION WOULD NOT BE A FEASIBLE OPTION, PROBABLY. >> WHAT IS THE TIME CAPSULE MADE OF? >> I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, COULD THAT. >> IN 1970. >> 1978. COULD THE ROCKS BE DEMOED AND THEN THE CAPSULE STAYS, OR IS IT LIKE A VOID IN THE CONCRETE, OR WE DON'T KNOW? >> I DON'T KNOW. DID YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THE RECORDS, MIA OR PROBABLY NOT? >> THE ONLY INFORMATION I WAS ABLE TO GET FROM OTHER CITY STAFF WAS 1978. I WAS HOPING THAT MAYBE ARLENE WOULD KNOW MORE. [LAUGHTER] >> SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE THE PUNIC WAR. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS ABUSE IS WARRANTED. [LAUGHTER] 78, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW. WE DON'T KNOW DIDDLY. TO MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT IF PEG LEG PETE COMES BACK, WE'RE GOING TO PUT HIM RIGHT THERE. WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THE SAFETY CONCERNS THAT WE HAD BEFORE? >> YOU STILL HAVE THOSE CONCERNS, OTHER THAN THE SIGNAGE THAT SAYS THAT SOME SIGNAGE ABOUT NOT CLIMBING ON THE ART, YOU STILL HAVE THE CONCERNS OF A PEDESTAL THAT YOU CAN STEP UP AND CLIMB ON, AND THEN A FENCE RIGHT BEHIND IT. WAS A FENCE RIGHT BEHIND IT, A POINTED METAL FENCE RIGHT BEHIND IT. THAT IS A POTENTIAL FALL CONCERN. >> AND WE WOULD, OF COURSE, PUT UP SIGNS. >> GREAT. MORE SIGNS. >> OH, YES, THAT'S TRUE. >> WHEN THE NEXT STATUTE COMES TO YOU NEXT WEEK, WE WILL KNOW MORE ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN AND WHERE WE'RE AT AND WHAT THE NEXT STEPS WOULD BE. >> BECAUSE I PERSONALLY, I DON'T SEE THAT THIS STANDING AS IT IS IN FRONT OF THE DEPOT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE. THE DEPOT ALREADY HAS A DIFFERENT TIME CAPSULE IN FRONT OF IT. >> RIGHT. NOW TWO. YEAH. >> MAYBE PUT THAT ONE NEAR THE FIRST ONE. I DON'T KNOW, BUT THIS, BY ITSELF, JUST LOOKS FOR PEOPLE TO GO STAND ON IT AND FALL DOWN. I MEAN, THAT WAS THE CONCERN WE HAD WHEN THE STATUE WAS THERE. AND THIS IS JUST WIDE OPEN NOW? [00:25:02] >> YEAH. >> I COULD JUST GO STAND ON IT AND DANCE AND HIT. >> AND PRETEND YOU WERE PEG LEG PETE. >> OH, I COULD. [LAUGHTER] >> SO IS THERE CONSENSUS TO EXPLORE, MAYBE WHAT RELOCATING THAT TIME CAPSULE WOULD LOOK LIKE? >> YES. DO WE THINK THAT MAKES SENSE? >> YEAH. I WOULD THINK THAT MAKE SENSE TO ME HERE. [OVERLAPPING] THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW FOUNDATION FOR IT ANYWAY. SAFE FOR OUR NEW BASE, YEAH. SO, THE TIME CAPSULE WOULD GET RELOCATED, REPLACED WHEREVER IT IS OR WHEREVER IT MOVES TO. SO FOR THE SAFETY, I THINK OF THE COMMUNITY, IT MAKES SENSE TO REMOVE IT. >> CAN WE LOOK INTO IT? >> WE CAN LOOK INTO IT. SURE. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR JEREMIAH? >> NO, I WAS JUST THINKING MAYBE IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE THE TIME CAPSULE, MAYBE WITH THE NEWLY CARVED PIRATE IN THE WATERFRONT PARK AS A DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVE. >> YEAH. I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES AND WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE. SO IF YOU COULD PRESENT US WITH THOSE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> I WOULD THINK WHATEVER IS GOING TO HAPPEN, EVEN THOUGH IT MAY BE TEMPORARY, THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME PRESS RELEASE BEFORE ANYTHING HAPPENS. SO THERE'S JUST NO NEGATIVE CONNOTATION WITH THIS GOING, AND THAT'S NOT THE INTENT FOR. >> THIS NEEDS TO BE COMMUNICATED BECAUSE THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF DISAGREEMENT. >> YEAH. YOU DON'T NEED TO BE AN ENGINEER TO RECOGNIZE THAT TO RELOCATE THAT CAPSULE IS DESTRUCTIVE IN NATURE. I MEAN, IT'S ENCAPSULATED WITH ALL THE STONES IN THE MORTAR. SO, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE A WRECKING JOB, A MESSY JOB, VERY, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE JOB JUST TO RELOCATE IT, SO YOU'RE RIGHT, COMMUNICATION BE PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE. >> IT IS. AND I ALSO BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THAT IF THE DETERMINATION BY THE CITY IS THAT IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS BECAUSE OF THAT, THEN I THINK THE CITY NEEDS TO ADDRESS THE CITY'S CONCERNS OF SAFETY. HOW WOULD THAT HAPPEN? >> UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> YES, MA'AM. >> DID ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS OR ANY OF THESE TOPICS? THANK YOU. STAFF REPORT. MISS MIA. OH, NO, I SKIPPED ONE. I ALWAYS SKIP ONE. [6.3 Elections of Chair and Vice-Chair] 6.3 ELECTION OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR. >> I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP OUR EXISTING CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR. >> WELL, I COULD BE DECAYING BASED ON WHAT'S COMING. >> IN ALL YOUR WISDOM, ARLENE. NOT SO MUCH A CITY. >> DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT IDEA? >> I AM GOING TO AGREE WITH THAT. >> I WILL DEFINITELY ECHO THAT WE NEED TO KEEP ARLENE RIGHT WHERE SHE IS. WHETHER SHE WANTS TO OR NOT. [LAUGHTER] >> THAT'S STORY OF MY LIFE. >> DO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR THAT? >> I'D MAKE A MOTION TO NOMINATE ARLENE AS CHAIR. >> YOU CAN NOMINATE. [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] >> SO WE CAN DO I CAN DO IT ONE AT A TIME. SO IS THERE A SECOND? >> I SECOND. >> YOU WANT TO CALL THE ROLL. >> MOTION AND A SECOND. YOU CALL THE VOTE? >> YES. >> CHAIR FULKOV. >> MAKE ME LAST. >> CHAIR PAZ. >> YES. >> MEMBER KORZAK? >> YES. >> MEMBER SCHALLER? >> YES. >> MEMBER BURNS? >> YES. >> MEMBER PARSASKI? >> YES. >> CHAIR FULKOV. >> YES. >> THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR VOTE OF CONFIDENCE. >> I MOVE THAT WE MAKE POZZETTA OUR VICE CHAIR. >> I'LL SECOND THAT. >> HAVE A MOTION THIS SECOND. >> CALL THE VOTE, PLEASE. >> I CAN GO OKAY NOW. >> CHAIR FULKOV? >> YES. >> MEMBER KORZAK. >> YES. >> MEMBER SCHALLER? >> YES. >> MEMBER BURNS. >> YES. >> MEMBER PARSASKI. >> AND VICE CHAIR PERSETO. >> YES. [7. STAFF REPORT] >> NOW WE MOVE ON TO STAFF REPORT. MIA IS GOING TO GIVE US A SUMMARY STATEMENT ON THE EVENT THAT WE HELD AT OLD TOWN PLAZA LAST WEEK. >> YEAH. JANUARY 5, TWO WEEKS AGO. >> JANUARY 5. TWO WEEKS AGO. SOME OF US WERE ABLE TO ATTEND AND WERE THERE. SO WE HEARD SOME OF THE FEEDBACK. I THINK THERE'S A MIXTURE OF RESPONSES TO THAT FEEDBACK. BUT YES, PLEASE, MIA. >> I JUST WANTED TO START THIS UPDATE WITH I KNOW THIS IS VERY HARD TO SEE, [00:30:01] BUT I DID A REVIEW OF THE DOCUMENTS FROM 1999, 2013, AND 2021, JUST TO SEE WHAT BROADLY HAD CHANGED FROM DOCUMENT TO DOCUMENT. IN THE 1999 DOCUMENT, THERE WAS A HEAVY EMPHASIS ON THE PLAT. BUT THERE ARE ALSO SOME BUILDING STANDARDS THAT WERE EMBEDDED INTO THAT, INCLUDING PLACEMENT ON LOTS, LOT COVERAGE, MASSING OF BUILDINGS, APPROPRIATE HEIGHTS, PROPORTIONS OF OPENINGS, INCLUDING WINDOWS AND DOORS, PREFERRED MATERIALS, ROOF FORMS, AND PARKING AND DRIVEWAYS. SO SOME OF THE FEEDBACK WE HEARD WAS THAT THE OLD TOWN PRESERVATION OF DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES SHOULD BE ONLY CONCERNED WITH PRESERVATION OF THE GRID. PART OF THAT PRESERVATION OF THE GRID IS HOW THE BUILDINGS ARE PLACED ON THE GRID. THE REASON WHY THINGS ARE REVIEWED WHEN THEY'RE BEING DEVELOPED IN OLD TOWN BY THE HDC. THE 1999 DOCUMENT ALSO SHOWS AN EVOLUTION OF BUILDING FOOTPRINT OVER TIME FROM 1903 UP TO 1999. SO IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN THAT, YOU CAN GO LOOK AT THAT DOCUMENT HAS A REALLY COOL TIME LAPSE CHAPTER IN THERE. THEY INCLUDE SCENARIOS FOR REPAIRING THE GRID, RANGING FROM LOW TOLERANCE TO HIGH TOLERANCE TO CHANGE. THE GUIDELINES COVER TOWN PLAN TYPOLOGY, INCLUDING LOT COVERAGE IN THE VISIBILITY CORRIDORS, INCLUDING DISCUSSION OF THE PONIAS AND MEDIA PONIAS. IT LIGHTLY DISCUSSES LAND USE AS RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL, BUT WE DON'T GET INTO THE ZONING OF OLD TOWN ONE AND OLD TOWN TWO UNTIL THOSE 2013 GUIDELINES SPECIFY THAT NEW ZONING DESIGNATIONS. THE 1999 GUIDELINES ALSO COVER A PRACTICAL APPROACH TO REHABILITATION, SO THAT INCLUDES THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS. IT ALSO INCLUDES A BUILDING INVENTORY OF ALL THE BUILDINGS THAT WERE IN OLD TOWN FOR 1999. >> THAT IS REALLY A VALUABLE PIECE OF HISTORIC KNOWLEDGE FOR US TO LOOK BACK AND SEE WHAT BUILDINGS WERE THERE. HAS THE FRONT ELEVATIONS OF ALL OF THEM, WHAT YEAR THEY WERE BUILT, AND WHAT STYLE THEY WERE CONSTRUCTED IN. THE TOTAL OF 140 PAGES, AND IT HAS FOUR GOALS AT THE START. WHICH ARE CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE THREE DOCUMENTS. THEN MOVING ON INTO THE 2013 GUIDELINES. THE BIGGEST CHANGE HERE WAS A BIGGER EMPHASIS ON THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. IT GOES INTO MORE DETAIL ABOUT HOW THE LAW OF THE INDIES WAS USED WHEN THE SPANISH DESIGNED THAT TOWN. IT CARRIES OVER THE EMPHASIS OF THE PLATE, BUT IT ALSO EXPANDS ON BUILDING STYLE, DESIGN ELEMENTS AND FURTHER GOES INTO DETAILS ABOUT MATERIAL. ALL OF THAT WAS ADOPTED IN 2013. IT EXPANDS ON FENCES, WALLS, AND HEDGES, AS WELL AS PROTECTED TREES IN OLD TOWN AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE COPY FOR JUST THE SUSTAINABILITY AND PRIVACY FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT EXPANDS ON THE STANDARDS FOR BOSCH BELLO CEMETERY. IT INCLUDES THE SCENARIOS FOR REPAIRING THE GRID WERE CARRIED OVER RIGHT FROM THAT 1999 DOCUMENT. LIKE I MENTIONED, THOSE LAND USE, OT ONE AND OT TWO ARE EXPANDED ON IN THIS ONE, AND IT HAS THOSE FOUR CONSISTENT GOALS CARRIED OVER AGAIN. THEN FINALLY, GOING INTO THE 2021 UPDATE, AGAIN, STARTS WITH A HEAVY EMPHASIS ON MAINTAINING THE PLAT AND INCLUDES THE BUILDING STANDARDS THAT ARE ECHOED IN 1999 IN 2003. THE MAIN THING HERE THAT DREW US TO PURSUING THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE IS THE UPDATED GRAPHICS FOR THE VISIBILITY CORRIDORS AND CONNECTING ELEMENTS. IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY LESS WORTHY FOR EVERY SECTION. THEY REALLY PARE DOWN THE VERBIAGE IN THERE. THERE'S ALSO VERY LIMITED HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE WITH A MORE EMPHASIS ON THE TOWN PLAN. THEN AGAIN, THESE FOUR GOALS ARE CARRIED OVER THROUGH ALL THREE DOCUMENTS. SO WE ARE LOOKING TO DO THIS WITH OUR 2026 UPDATE AS WELL. THEN JUST TO ROUND OUT THIS GUIDELINES THROUGH THE YEAR'S SUMMARY, THE MAIN FINDINGS THAT MCKENNA AND I GATHERED IN REVIEWING THESE, THAT ALTHOUGH THE GRID MAY BE THE ONLY HISTORIC ELEMENT LEFT IN OLD TOWN, BUILDING DESIGN AND PLACEMENT IS CRUCIAL TO EMULATING THE TOWN PLAN THAT THE NATIONAL REGISTER THE NATIONAL REGISTERED HISTORIC DISTRICT AIMS TO PRESERVE. ITEMS LIKE BUILDING MATERIALS, HEIGHT, PLACEMENT, LOT COVERAGE, AND VISIBILITY CORRIDORS HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE GUIDELINE SINCE 1999, AND HAVE CHANGED VERY LITTLE THAT MAJOR CHANGE BEING 1999-2013, WHEN SOME MORE OF THE MATERIALS AND THE OPENINGS AND THOSE DESIGN GUIDELINES WERE EXPANDED ON. OUR MOTIVATION FOR UPDATING VERSION FOR 2026 WAS TO INCLUDE THE GRAPHICS AND FORMATTING FROM THE 2021 GUIDELINES WHILE RETAINING THE HISTORICAL BACKGROUND AND ARGUMENT FOR SIGNIFICANCE FROM THOSE PREVIOUS DOCUMENTS. [00:35:01] THIS ALSO PRESENTS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITY TO CLEAR UP ANY CONFUSION OR VARIED ENFORCEMENT OF THE REGULATIONS IN OLD TOWN THAT HAVE PREVIOUSLY OCCURRED. AFTER ALL OF THAT, I WILL TALK ABOUT THE OUTREACH EVENT. I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED. I HEARD A LOT OF, MAYBE WARNINGS ABOUT GOING TO OLD TOWN AND PEOPLE REACHING TO ME OUT BEFOREHAND. BUT BUT IT WASN'T. IT WASN'T MEAN. THESE PEOPLE VERY MUCH CARE ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WHERE THEY LIVE. SO IT WAS MY PLEASURE TO MEET THEM IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AT THE FERNDINA PLAZA AND OFFER THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON AND HAVE INPUT ON GUIDELINES THAT IMPACT THEIR LIVES AND THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY. SO IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET, I HAD A SUMMARY PAGE THAT DESCRIBES WHEN AND WHERE IT WAS HELD. WE HAD ABOUT 25 TO 30 RESIDENTS FLOATING IN AND OUT. SOME HEC MEMBERS WERE PRESENT. MCKENNA AND I PREPARED SOME ENGAGEMENT ACTIVITIES, BUT IT ACTED MORE OF, LIKE, JUST A DISCUSSION THAT EVOLVED NATURALLY. WE HEARD STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCE WITH THE HDC. WE HEARD STORIES ABOUT THEIR OWN PROJECTS AND THINGS THAT THEY WANTED CLARITY ON OR WERE CONFUSED ABOUT. U SO I TRIED TO REAL IN THAT CONVERSATION TO TALKING ABOUT THE GUIDELINES AND WHAT WE COULD INCORPORATE INTO THE GUIDELINES TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR. ON THE SCREEN, I HAVE THE SUGGESTED INCORPORATIONS FOR THE GUIDELINES UPDATE. WE WANTED TO CLARIFY INFORMATION ABOUT POOL LIGHTING, AND MAYBE WE COULD EXPAND THAT TO OTHER LIGHTING, CLARIFY MATERIALS BETWEEN SMOOTH TO TEXTURED LAP SIGHTING, WINDOWS. THEY WANTED MORE CLARITY ON VISIBILITY CORRIDORS AND PONIA AND MEDIA PONIA DELINEATIONS WITHIN BUILDINGS. THEN MCKENNA AND I FROM WHAT WE HEARD, RECOMMEND TO ADD A SECTION IN THE GUIDELINES ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE HDC AND HOW THAT FITS INTO OUR CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT REQUIREMENTS. THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE LDC COMBINING ALL THAT INFORMATION FOR THE JUSTIFICATION WHY, HDC IS PART OF DESIGN REVIEW. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO ADD A SECTION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE NATIONAL REGISTER AND IT BEING IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT IN ITS RELATION TO THE GUIDELINES. THEN THIS ONE'S THROWN IN THERE ABOUT THE MAINTENANCE OF THE GRID. AS I MENTIONED, THOSE FOUR SCENARIOS ARE INCLUDED IN THE 1999 DOCUMENT IN THE 2013 DOCUMENT. WE'VE HEARD FROM MULTIPLE PEOPLE THAT THE LOW TOLERANCE AND LOW TO MEDIUM TOLERANCE PREFERENCE IS PREFERRED, SO NOT CHANGING THE GRID, WHICH IS IN LINE WITH OUR NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION. ANOTHER COMMENT ABOUT RENTAL SIGNAGE AND REAL ESTATE SIGNAGE REGULATIONS IN OLD TOWN AND SEEING IF WE COULD ENACT ANY MORE STANDARDS TO MAKE THOSE MORE COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE OUTREACH EVENT, AND THEN I HAVE AN UPDATE ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING ABOUT THE REVISIONS AS WELL. >> ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS BEFORE WE MOVE AHEAD. >> YES. >> THIS MIGHT BE FOR TERESA. THE RENTAL SIGNAGE REGULATIONS BENCHED NEED TO BE CODIFIED. ISN'T THAT MORE OF AN ORDINANCE, OR COULD WE HAVE SOMETHING IN THE GUIDELINES THAT ESTABLISH WHETHER OR NOT SIGNS ARE. >> I DO AGREE. I THINK IT WOULD BE IN THE ORDINANCE AND FORGIVE MY IGNORANCE HERE. THESE GUIDELINES ARE NOT GOING TO BE ADOPTED LIKE BY ORDINANCE AS IN THE EXHIBIT A OR SOMETHING. >> THEY WOULD BE ADOPTED BY REFERENCE. >> BY REFERENCE. >> YES. THAT'S ENOUGH. I MEAN, YES, WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE IT SO THEY'RE ENFORCEABLE, AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS. DO WE NEED TO AMEND CHAPTER 8, OR DO WE NEED TO JUST HAVE IT IN THESE GUIDELINES. >> THEN MIA, CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LOW TOLERANCE OR A LOW TO MEDIUM TOLERANCE OPTION FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THE GRID? >> I'LL JUST PULL THOSE UP, THAT'LL BE BETTER THAN ME TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT. THERE ARE SCENARIOS FOR THE TREATMENT OF THE GRID. THIS IS A 2013 DOCUMENT. SORRY, IF I'M GIVING EVERYONE WIPLASH. THIS IS THE MAINTAINING AND REPAIRING THE GRID SECTION. THE LOW TOLERANCE. IT JUST SPEAKS TO THE TOLERANCE FOR CHANGE FOR THE GRID. THE LOW TOLERANCE OPTION, TALKS ABOUT BY HOLDING ALTERATIONS TO [00:40:02] THE STREET GRID AND PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY TO AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. THE GEOMETRY OF THE GRID, BLOCK PROPORTIONS AND PUBLIC RIGHTS AWAY ARE MAINTAINED. STRICT REGIMEN REINFORCES THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LAW OF THE INDIES, BUT PROVIDES A NEUTRAL BACKGROUND FOR INDIVIDUALITY OF PRIVATE RIGHTS. ALL RIGHTS AWAY PREVIOUSLY CLOSED OR LEFT UNDEVELOPED OR RETURNED TO PUBLIC USE IN THE SCHEME, THE TERMINATION OF ALL EAST AND WEST ROADS AT A PRECISE LOCATION RECALLS THE MEMORY OF MARINE STREET. SO THIS IS TRYING TO MAINTAIN AND REPAIR THE GRID AS IT ORIGINALLY WAS AS PART OF THE ORIGINAL TOWN PLATE. THEN WE GO TO, MEDIUM TO LOW TOLERANCE RETAINS MOST OF THE RIGOR OF THE LOW TOLERANCE LEVEL, ADJUST FOR PRACTICAL REQUIREMENTS. FOR EXAMPLE, RADIUS TURN CORNERS THAT CONFORM TO THE DOT STANDARDS ARE ALLOWED, AS WELL AS 20 FOOT STREET WITH. SO THIS IS NOT REVERTING THINGS BACK TO THEIR GRID, BUT LEAVING THEM AS THEY ARE. AND THEN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE HIGH TOLERANCE FOR CHANGE TALKS ABOUT BRINGING THINGS UP TO ASPHALT ROADS, STANDARDS AND CONNECTING CREATING OUR ROADS THAT WEREN'T THERE BEFORE.. YOU CAN SEE IN THE HIGH TOLERANCE SCENARIO, THE GRID HAS CHANGED A LOT. IN THE LOW TOLERANCE SCENARIO, IT'S VERY STRICT APPLICATION OF THE GRID. >> WE'RE RECOMMENDING STICKING WITH THE LOW TO MEDIUM LOW. >> THAT IS WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY, AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK ALIGNS WITH THE INTENTIONS OF THE GUIDELINES. IN THE PAST, ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS HAVE BEEN INCLUDED. IN 1999 AND 2013, ALL SCENARIOS WERE INCLUDED. BUT I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO START IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY AND TRY TO DO JUSTICE TO THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT, I THINK WE NEED TO BE ASSERTIVE IF WE'RE GOING TO CHOOSE THE LOAD TO MEDIUM TOLERANCE OR IF WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THIS HIGH TOLERANCE AS EVEN A SCENARIO THAT'S POSSIBLE. THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION, BUT IT'S OBVIOUSLY UP TO. >> CAN I SUMMARIZE IN ARLENE SPEAK, BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT ALL OF THE GUIDELINES TO DATE HAVE SAID THAT WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO KEEP THE GRID AS CLOSE TO ORIGINAL AS POSSIBLE? >> YES. >> WHAT WE'RE ALSO SAYING IS THAT THE COMMUNITY AGREES TO THAT. >> THAT'S COOL. I LIKE THAT. THEN WHEN WE LOOK AT THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING DOCUMENT. IT'S THESE REVISIONS, WE'VE CUT 32 40% OF PAGE IS. IS THAT MOSTLY CLEANING UP? VERBIAGE, IS IT ELIMINATING SOME HISTORICAL ASPECTS OF IT? IS THE MEAT ALL STILL THERE? I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T JUST KEEP REFINING DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT WOULD CREATE THE NEED TO GO BACK TO ALL THESE OTHER OLDER DOCUMENTS. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WHATEVER OUR CURRENT DOCUMENT IS IS STILL ALL COMPREHENSIVE. >> WE HEARD THAT COMMENT LAST TIME YOU ASKED FOR A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON OF THE DOCUMENTS TO ADDRESS THAT EXACT CONCERN. AFTER WE'RE DONE GOING THROUGH THE OUTREACH EVENT, I'D LIKE TO SHARE SOME INFORMATION THAT WE LEARNED IN THE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON, BUT THE MEAT WAS NOT ALSO THERE. WE DISCOVERED A LOT OF THINGS MISSING, SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO CREATE A MORE OMNIVORE LIKE DOCUMENT GOING FORWARD THAT HAS THE VISUALLY PLEASING FORMATTING AND READABILITY THAT THE 20211 HAS. WHILE INCORPORATING ALL THAT HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE AND GREAT DOCUMENTATION THAT WAS IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT CAME BEFORE. WE AREN'T GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO COMBINE THEM ESSENTIALLY. THE MESSAGE IS THE SAME BETWEEN BOTH. WE'RE JUST GOING TO CLEAN UP THE VERBIAGE, SO IT'S NOT SO OVERWHELMING IN WORDS, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AS SUCCINCT AS THE 2021 GUIDELINES ARE. >> IT'LL BE NOT JUST FORM BASED, IT'LL BE LIKE A HYBRID? >> YES. >> GOOD. >> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT WAS THAT MUCH OF THE COMMENTARY THAT WE GOT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FEEDBACK SESSION OUT OF THE PLAZA, TALKED ABOUT BILL TILSON'S GUIDELINES FROM 1999, BUT THOSE WERE UPDATED AND CHANGED IN 2013, WHICH IS WHY THE HDC HAS SOMETHING TO ADD TO THE PROCESS. IF IT WERE JUST THE GRID FROM 1999, THAT'S ALL WE WERE TRYING TO PROTECT THAT TILSON WROTE. >> I BELIEVE YOU CAN YOU COME UP? >> PLEASE COME UP, PLEASE USE WE'RE BROADCASTING. [00:45:03] I WANT TO MAKE SURE IF. BOB SALA 11 30 WHITE STREET. I I THOUGHT BILL AND SAL, AND THEY ALL HAD WHEN WE ALL MET AT THE MUSEUM. THERE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS IN, BUT THAT WAS LONG PAST 2013. I REMEMBER ASKING MIA, HAD SHE WATCHED THAT VIDEO BECAUSE I REMEMBER THAT'S WHEN, WE GOT THE LIDAR AND THE GRID AND THE SUPER IMPOSED BUILDINGS. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE LED BY. THAT'S WHAT BILL TILSON WAS RECOMMENDED. I THINK IT WAS JUST AFTER COVID. WE HAD THAT MEETING. >> FOUR YEARS AGO, MAYBE? >> THAT'S I GUESS WHERE WE ALL GOT THROWN OFF AT THE PLAZA WAS, WELL, NO, WE WENT TO THE MUSEUM TWICE TO GO OVER ALL THAT WITH BILL, AND WE MET THE YOUNG MAN, I BELIEVE, PETER OR PAUL, THAT THAT DID THE LIDAR. THEY CAME TO EVERYONE'S HOUSE, AND THEY PUT THE STAKES IN THE ROADS AND THEY DID MAPPING. WE ALL CAME BACK TO THAT. WHEN WE WERE SURPRISED TO FIND OUT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 2013 WHEN ALL THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE BY BILL TILSON. NOW YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO BILL TILSON 2015. THAT'S FINE. WE WERE JUST ALL VERY CONFUSED BECAUSE WE ALL WERE REALLY INVOLVED IN THAT. >> WHAT I WAS SAYING, MR. SALA, WAS THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE I SPOKE TO AT THE PLAZA BELIEVED THAT BILL TILSON'S 1999 GUIDELINES WERE ALL WE HAD. AS A RESULT OF THE 1999 GUIDELINES THAT THEY UNDERSTOOD TO BE OUR CURRENT DOCUMENT. SOME OF THE FOLKS THAT WERE OUT THERE DID. THEY BELIEVED THAT THE HDC DIDN'T NEED TO BE INVOLVED AT ALL BECAUSE ALL THAT HAD TO HAPPEN WAS MIA WOULD LOOK AT THE PLAN AND MAKE SURE IT. >> NO, I AGREE THAT CONVERSATION. >> THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO. >> I JUST WANT TO SURE IS A LOT OF THIS IS BASED ON WHAT BILL PRESENTED TO I MEAN, THERE WERE 80 90 PEOPLE IN THOSE MEETINGS WHERE YOU HAD A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF OLD TOWN. AT THOSE MEETINGS, AND I WAS HOPING THOSE PEOPLE WERE THERE. >> WELL, WHAT I BELIEVE HAPPENED THOUGH WAS, AND TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, MIA, THOSE 22021 GUIDELINES WERE NEVER ADOPTED BY THE COMMISSION. IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT? >> THAT'S CORRECT. BECAUSE THEY WERE PAYED DOWN. >> BUT IT NEVER GOT ADOPTED OFFICIALLY. WE GOT INVOLVED TO SAY, IS THAT 2021 DOCUMENT ENOUGH OR IS THERE SOMETHING MISSING THAT HAS TO BE ADDED TO IT? THAT WAS WHY WE WERE ASKING FOR FEEDBACK. NOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH IS A REVISION OF THAT 2021 DOCUMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE GOT THE WHOLE THING COVERED. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNED ME A GREAT DEAL WHEN WE WERE OUT THERE WAS THAT PEOPLE FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT THAT THE FOLKS ON THE HDC NOT COMMENTING BASED ON GUIDELINES OR LDC, THEY WERE COMMENTING ON PERSONAL OPINIONS. >> THEY WERE SUBJECTIVE, CORRECT? >> YES. ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE IS THAT WE MAKE SURE BECAUSE MANY OF THE CASES THAT WERE USED AS EXAMPLES THAT DAY? I DON'T THINK YOURS WAS, BUT MANY OF THE OTHER EXAMPLES WE HEARD ABOUT WERE FROM A YEAR OR TWO YEARS AGO. >> BEEN THERE A LOT LONGER,[LAUGHTER] IS THAT CORRECT? >> EXACTLY >> PARDON ME, BUT WHAT I THINK HAS HAPPENED IS AND JAMES HAS BEEN HERE, PROBABLY JUST AS LONG AS MOST OF THOSE IS WE HAD THIS KIND OF SMALL INFLUX BEFORE '20. THEN WE HAD THIS MASSIVE INFLUX WITH COVID. SOME OF THOSE 2021 GUIDELINES WE EVEN THOUGH WEREN'T ADOPTED, WERE STARTING TO BE IMPOSED, AND THAT CREATED A LOT OF CONFUSION WITH PEOPLE. >> IT WOULD. >> THEN WHEN WE ALL MET AT THE PLAZA, THOSE OF US WHO LIVED UNDER 2013 WE ALMOST 2013 TO I THINK IT WAS TAMMY YOUR POINT, THERE WERE 140 PAGES, THERE WAS SO MUCH DETAIL THERE. JOHN DODD KNEW WHAT HE WAS WORKING AGAINST. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, UNDER 2021 OR 2013, THE GUIDELINES GO DOWN SOME MORE. THAT'S WHERE I THINK A LOT OF THE ANIMOSITY OR SUBJECTIVISM AND COMMENTING HAPPENS IS SOME OF US BUILT UNDER DIFFERENT GUIDELINES? >> I THINK THAT THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE, AND I THINK THAT PERSONAL OPINIONS FROM BOTH DIRECTIONS, BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING. BECAUSE I WASN'T THERE, [00:50:02] BUT I I'M HEARING THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PERSONAL OPINION FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE HOUSE, THE CHAMBER, AND THE BOARD. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE OF IS THAT WE ARE DIRECTED CLEARLY ENOUGH BY THOSE GUIDELINES THAT WE CAN LEAVE OUR PERSONAL OPINION. >> I AGREE. >> AT HE DOOR. >> I AGREE. WE CAN GO BACK IN A VIDEO FROM 2019 WHERE SOMEONE SITTING IN YOUR SEAT, LOOKED AT A PLAN FOR THE YOUTH CENTER AND SAID, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF AN ANCHOR LOOKING LIKE A CROSS. THAT'S ON VIDEO AND RECORDED. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. THIS SIDE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO BRING UP A PERSONAL OPINION. THIS SIDE HAS TO BE VERY CLEAR AND DIRECTIVE AS TO THE GUIDELINES. >> ALSO, TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT THE PERSONAL OPINION BEING EXPRESSED DOES NOT ALIGN OR DOES ALIGN WITH THE GUIDELINES. THAT'S OUR JOB. THIS GROUP RIGHT NOW, I WOULD TELL YOU, I'VE WORKED WITH THE CITY OF FERNADINA BEACH NOW SINCE GOD WAS A CHILD. [LAUGHTER] >> DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE TIME COUNT? [LAUGHTER] >> I DO. ABSOLUTELY. >> BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF BARS >> ONE OF MY FIRST BABY TEETH.[LAUGHTER] THAT'S WHAT'S IN THERE. WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN, AND THIS IS FOR ANYBODY WHO CARES TO HEAR IT, WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN OVER ALL OF THAT TIME IS THAT BOARDS HAVE COME AND GONE. THE SELECTION FOR BOARD MEMBERS HAS BEEN DIFFERENT OVER THE YEARS. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH THE CITY STAFF THE OTHER DAY. IT USED TO BE THAT YOU DIDN'T ADD ANOTHER MEMBER TO A BOARD, ANY BOARD WITHOUT THE CURRENT BOARD MEMBERS RECOMMENDATION. BECAUSE THERE'S A SENSE THAT IF THE CURRENT BOARD IS WORKING AS A TEAM ON A SPECIFIC SET OF GOALS LIKE MAKING SURE THAT WE KEEP OUR PERSONAL OPINIONS OUT OF WHAT WE SAY OR THE JUDGMENT THAT WE MAKE, THEN I DON'T WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO OPERATE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED GET SELECTED JUST BECAUSE ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS KNOWS THEM AND LIKES THEM. RIGHT NOW, THE WAY BOARD MEMBERS ARE SELECTED IS A POLITICAL PROCESS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. PEOPLE SUBMIT THEIR APPLICATIONS AND THE COMMISSION DECIDES. WE DON'T GET TO WEIGH IN AT ALL. RIGHT NOW, THOUGH, THIS BOARD IS MADE UP OF ONE OF THE MOST TALENTED GROUP OF PEOPLE I'VE EVER SEEN MINUS ME. [LAUGHTER] I JUST NO BS. BUT THIS GROUP IS VERY TALENTED, VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY SHARE THAT WISDOM. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE HERE TO SHARE THE WISDOM, NOT TO TELL PEOPLE THEY CAN'T DO SOMETHING NECESSARILY, BUT HOW TO GET WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED TO DO WITHIN THE GUIDELINES. >> IT'S FUNNY, ARLENE, THANK YOU. YOU ACTUALLY BRING UP A POINT THAT WE DIDN'T MENTION THAT CAME UP AT THE MEETING OUT AT THE PARK WAS AND I THINK I REMEMBER WHO BROUGHT IT UP, BUT SO ONE OF THE THINGS IS, WE ARE THE UNPROFESSIONALS. WE DON'T SIT IN, TAMMY AND JAMES FAMOUS ARCHITECT, WE DON'T SIT IN YOUR SHOES WITH THE KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE. WE GO TO THE CITY AND WE'RE LIKE, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO BUILD. ARCHITECTS COME AND GO. JAMES HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL. THIS IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE. THEN THE CITY PRESENTS TO THE BOARD. BUT YET YOU BRING UP THAT VERY UNEDUCATED PERSON UP HERE TO DEFEND IT. WHEN IN ACTUALITY, THE DEBATE SHOULD BE BETWEEN THE PERSON WHO MADE THAT DECISION TO SAY IT'S OKAY AND THE BOARD, LET THAT DEBATE HAPPEN AND THEN COME BACK TO THE PERSON BECAUSE WE'VE DECIDED, HEY, WE THINK YOU'RE GOOD TO GO, GO TO THE BOARD, BUT THEN YOU GUYS FIND SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T FIT. WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE ANSWER OF WE THOUGHT A BRICK CHIMNEY WOULD BE OKAY. IT NEEDS TO BE THIS. YOU GUYS SAID BRICK, YOU TOLD THIS PERSON BRICK WAS OKAY. WHY WE THINK IT'S, >> I THINK THAT'S A VERY FAIR COMMENT, BUT SO LET ME ADDRESS WHAT WE'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY IN THE PAST YEAR FROM WHAT BEEN WHAT WAS BEEN DONE. WHAT WAS THAT LANGUAGE? >> HAS BEEN DONE. >> WHAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST. [00:55:01] [LAUGHTER] >> HAVE BEEN DONE. [BACKGROUND] >> THERE YOU GO. [LAUGHTER] >> [BACKGROUND] I USED TO BE AN ENGLISH TEACHER. >> OF COURSE, IT WAS IN ALABAMA. [LAUGHTER] >> WHAT WE HAVE DONE BECAUSE MOST OF YOU ARE PROBABLY AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE ENTIRE PLANNING STAFF HAS OVERTURNED IN THE PAST YEAR. MIA. GOD KNOWS WHERE GOD WAS LOOKING WHEN HE FOUND HER BECAUSE HE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB BECAUSE WHAT THIS YOUNG WOMAN KNOWS AT A VERY RIDICULOUSLY YOUNG AGE IS THAT SHE DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ASKED OUR SKILLED FOLKS WHO SIT UP HERE TO DO IS AS SOON AS SHE GETS HER REQUEST THAT SHE HAS ANY DOUBT ABOUT AT ALL, THEY MAKE THEMSELVES AVAILABLE TO GO OUT AHEAD OF THE GAME, WITH HER TO WALK THROUGH IT ALL. I THINK IT HAS REDUCED DRAMATICALLY THE NUMBER OF SURPRISES THAT PEOPLE GET WHEN THEY COME BEFORE THE HDC. I THINK WE ARE VERY, AS A GROUP, VERY WILLING TO ADJUST WHERE WE NEED TO, WHERE WE HAVE SINNED, FATHER, WE ARE LOOKING FOR WHATEVER I GET. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO DO OUR BEST. WE'RE LISTENING TO YOU, AND WE'RE ALSO WALKING WITH MIA WHENEVER THERE'S A CHANCE TO DO THAT. NOW, I WILL TELL YOU THAT IF SOMEBODY DOES A MIDNIGHT REQUISITION AND GOES AHEAD AND DOES SOMETHING WITHOUT COMING HERE FIRST, THEY'RE LEVEL WILL GET UGLY. >> OR CHANGES WHAT WAS APPROVED. >> THAT HAS HAPPENED AS WELL. WE APPROVE SOMETHING HERE. THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS, IT GOES OUT AND THEY SAY, WELL, THEY TOLD ME I HAD TO HAVE THAT KIND OF WINDOW, BUT I'M REALLY GOING TO GET THIS CHEER. >> I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER POINT FROM THE PAST THAT DIDN'T EVEN COME UP IS, YOU'RE RIGHT. WE ALL SIT AND WE WATCH THE COAS HAPPEN, AND THEN SOMEONE BUILD SOMETHING THAT AND I KNOW ONE HOUSE WITH THE MASSING THAT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS, I'LL JUST PAY THE $700 FINE AND I GET WHAT I HAVE. AGAIN, THAT'S PUT YOU GUYS IN A BAD SCENARIO BECAUSE THEY GO TO ABOVE YOU OR WHATEVER IT IS. AGAIN,UNFORTUNATELY, THE PLAZA, WHEN YOU GO A LONG TIME WITHOUT MEETING WITH PEOPLE, THEN YOU GET IT ALL AT ONCE. MIA WAS WONDERFUL, JUST TAKING THE HITS. WELL, ARLENE, YOU WERE TAKING THEM TOO. [LAUGHTER] >> BUT I'M OLD. >> AGAIN, I THINK WHAT THE TERM HOA CAME UP TWICE, NO. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AS I LOOK AT THIS COMMISSION OR THE BOARD, THERE'S NO ONE HERE FROM OLD TOWN. WE DID, AND WHEN MIKE HARRISON WAS HERE, WE HAD SOMEBODY, I DON'T KNOW, NOT THAT YOU CAN GUIDE IT, BUT THERE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS. >> COUPLE OF MOTES. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT. IF THERE IS SOMEBODY QUALIFIED IN OLD TOWN, WITH THE KINDS OF SKILL SETS THESE PEOPLE HAVE, PLEASE ASK THEM TO APPLY BECAUSE WE'RE DOWN ONE PERSON. >> CAN I MENTION ONE OTHER THING. BOB, SINCE YOU'VE DONE BUILT OUT THERE, SOMETHING THAT WE DID SEVERAL YEARS AGO, AND JIM, YOU WERE HERE DURING THIS TIME. WE ACTUALLY SWITCHED THE PROCESS, SO IT DIDN'T GO JOCKEY BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN BUILDING AND HDC. WE RAN THOSE CONCURRENTLY. YOU HAVE TO COME TO HDC FIRST BEFORE YOU CAN THEN GO AND GET YOUR BUILDING PERMIT? >> OH, NO, BACK WHEN I DID, THAT WE HAD TO GET. I HAD TO HAVE THAT COA TO TAKE [INAUDIBLE] >> THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH AND THAT WAS CAUSING THESE PROTRACTED TIMELINES FOR PROJECT. WE SHORTENED THAT UP. I THINK WE ALL HAVE THE SAME GOAL IS. IT'S SOMETIMES MISINFORMATION OR IF THERE IS SOME CONFUSION OF WHICH GUIDELINES ARE TO BE FOLLOWED. THAT'S WHAT I THINK OUR GOAL NOW I THINK WITH A NEW DOCUMENT THAT IS THE DOCUMENT. >> BUT I THINK WHAT HAPPENS OUT THERE IS YOU THEN HOPE THERE'S ENOUGH WILL AND FORTITUDE TO STICK TO THEM BECAUSE, WE SEE THE PORCHES, BUT WE CALL THEM STEPS, SO THEN IT'S ALLOWED TO GO INTO THE FIVE FOOT EASEMENT. AGAIN, WITH A 140 PAGE DOCUMENT, THERE WAS NOT A A WIGGLE ROOM. YOU HAD PICTURES, YOU HAD GUIDANCE, [01:00:03] AND I FEAR IS AS WE WHITTLE THIS DOWN, YOU NOW FIND PEOPLE THAT SAY, WELL, THAT WASN'T IN THE BOOK. THAT DIDN'T SHOW ME WHERE THE MID LOT LINE WAS. THIS GUY HAS A COLUMN IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS YARD, AND THAT'S ALL HE HAS. WHILE I FEAR 140 PAGE DOCUMENT, I REMEMBER BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT PICTURES AND SAY, OKAY, MY STEPS CAN ONLY BE A LANDING PAD AND TWO STEPS DOWN. SOME PEOPLE HAVE A PORCH WITH STEPS, AND THEY'RE CALLED A CONNECTING ELEMENT, BUT THEY GO OVER THE FIVE FOOT LINE BECAUSE THOSE PICTURES WEREN'T THERE ANYMORE. I THINK THAT'S A PART OF THE BIGGEST THING IS MANY OF US WENT UNDER GOOD GUIDELINES. I'M NOT SAYING NONE OF THE GUIDELINES ARE BAD, BUT THEN THEY GET REINTERPRETED BECAUSE IT WAS A DIFFERENT BOARD, OR IS A DIFFERENT THIS? WE'VE SEEN PEOPLE NOW OR THEY GET A VARIANCE WHEN YOU KNOW POINT BLANK, IT'S CHANGING EVERYTHING JUST BY GIVING THEM A VARIANCE TO CROSS THE MID LOT LINE. OR THE INTERIOR LOT LINES. THE ONES IN THE MIDDLE, THE LONGER ONES, AND WE CROSS OVER WITH A CONNECTING ELEMENT, OR WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOW BUILDING CAR PORTS, BUT THEY'RE PUTTING FOUR WALLS AROUND THEM IN A GARAGE DOOR, BUT BECAUSE IT'S SLATS, IT'S STILL A CONNECTING ARRANGEMENT, AND THEY'VE COVERED ALMOST 100% OF THE LOT. I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THE SMALLER WE MAKE THOSE GUIDELINES, THE MORE SUBJECTIVE THINGS CAN BECOME. >> I THINK THAT'S WHAT TAMMY'S CONCERN WAS. >> NO, I AGREE WITH TAMMY. WE'VE GOTTEN RID OF MORE THAN 50% OF THE PAGES. >> BUT WHAT WE ALSO >> THERE SHOULD BE A PICTURE OF WHAT A CAR PORT SHOULDN'T LOOK LIKE. >> WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IS THAT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT FOR 2026 IS MORE GRAPHICS, AS WELL AS MAKING SURE THAT WHAT WAS LEFT OUT OF 2021 IS PUT BACK. FOR 2026, WHICH IS THE ONE WE'RE TRYING TO GET FEEDBACK FOR. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS. THAT'S SOME OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS. MORE GRAPHIC IMAGES THAT MAKE IT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND THAN JUST A BUNCH OF WORDS DO, AND ALSO FIND WHAT WE LEFT OUT IN 2021 AND GET IT BACK. THAT'S WHAT THESE GUYS ARE WORKING ON. BY TRYING TO FIX OUR PROCESS, BY INCLUDING OURSELVES IN THE PROCESS THAT MIA IS GOING TO USE WITH THE CLIENT AT FIRST BLUSH OF A PROJECT, BY INCLUDING SOMEBODY FROM THIS BOARD IN WITH THAT, GIVES US SOME HEADS UP INFORMATION ON WHAT'S COMING AND WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE. I THINK WE'LL BE CLOSER TO THE IDEA OF IF MIA SAYS STAFF RECOMMENDS IT, THEN IT'S PROBABLY EASY. IT DOESN'T MEAN THOUGH THAT SOME QUESTIONS WON'T BE ASKED. >> BUT THEY SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO ME. >> SOME OF THEM AND SOME TO THE ARCHITECT OR THE CONTRACTOR. >> OH, THE PROFESSION, IT SHOULD BE MAINTAINED TO PROFESIONAL. >> WELL, DEPENDS ON WHO THE CUSTOMER DECIDES TO HAVE COME UP AND SPEAK. SOMETIMES THEY COME ON THEIR OWN AND SOMETIMES THEY HAVE A PROFESSIONAL PERSON COME UP AND SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF. IT'S THEIR CALL. >> YES. >> CORRECT. SOME OF TIMES THAT DEBATE TURNS INTO COME BACK WITH ANOTHER SET OF PLANS, AND WHEN IT BORDERS ON THE LINE OF, IS IT REALLY A RULE, OR IS IT JUST A GUIDELINE, BUT YET IT COST THAT PERSON ANOTHER $2,000 TO REDO BLUEPRINTS OR WHATEVER, THAT'S WHERE YOU START TO GET INTO THE CONCERNS. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT AND I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THAT HAPPENED A LOT MORE A YEAR OR PAST. CRIMES OF THAT HAPPENS NOW. SO I BELIEVE. >> I'VE BEEN LUCKY, I HAVE ME AND I DEALT WITH PAVERS, AND THAT WAS A SIMPLE CRUISE. >> ALL RIGHT. I'M JUST HERE TO TELL YOU THAT, TWO THINGS. ONE IS, I HAVE VERY HIGH CONFIDENCE IN THIS BOARD. I THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. I THINK THEY'RE NOT GOING TO JUST SAY, WELL, I DON'T LIKE THE COLOR OF YOUR SHIRT, SO I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO REBUILD YOUR HOUSE. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT. IF THEY DO, IT'S MY JOB TO STOP THEM AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. THE OTHER THING THAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE OF IS THAT THIS NEW PLANNING STAFF HEADED BY THAT GENTLEMAN OVER THERE WHO'S ACTING LIKE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. HAS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ATTITUDE ABOUT THEIR WORK AND THEIR JOB. [01:05:01] THAN WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST. WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY IN THE PLANNING ORGANIZATION. NOW, I DON'T WANDER OUT OF THEIR OFFICE VERY OFTEN, SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE CITY, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT IN THAT ORGANIZATION RIGHT NOW, I THINK THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THEY HAVE CUSTOMERS. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS TRUE IN THE PAST. I THINK YOU'RE LIABLE TO SEE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THINGS OPERATE WITH THE HDC THAN YOU USED TO. NOW, ONE OF THE COMMENTS THAT I WANT TO MAKE IN TWO. ONE IS A LOT OF WHAT I HEARD FROM PEOPLE AT THE FEEDBACK SESSION, PROVED TO BE MISINFORMATION THAT THEY'D GOTTEN FROM SOMEBODY EITHER ELSE IN OLD TOWN OR MAYBE EVEN A CITY STAFF MEMBER. THERE WAS THE QUESTION ABOUT LOT COMBINATION? >> CORRECT. >> AND SPLITTING OUT? WELL, THERE WAS ONE PERSON THAT TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE TOLD THAT THEY COULD SPLIT THEM BACK OUT AGAIN IF THEY HAD, AS LONG AS IT WAS A STANDARD LOT, THEY COULD SPLIT IT BACK OUT AGAIN, BUT THE CITY WAS GOING TO CHARGE YOU $30,000. >> IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT? >> DO YOU HAVE TO RESUBDIVIDE? BECAUSE THAT'S A STATEMENT WE HAD HEARD. SOMEONE TAKES THE FOR INSTANCE, WE BOUGHT FOUR PONIES. TO SAVE ON TAXES, WE MADE IT ONE PARCEL OR THE SURVEYOR MADE IT ONE PARCEL. BACK IN 2017 OR 2018, WHEN WE CAME IN FRONT OF THE BOARD, THEY MADE THE POINT TO SAY, MR. SALA, IF YOU COMBINE THOSE, YOU WILL NOT SEPARATE THEM AGAIN, OR YOU WILL BE PAYING A SUBDIVISION FEE TO RE BREAK THEM UP AGAIN. THEN ARLENE WAS GREAT THIS PAST WEEK TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT AND MIA, YOU HELPED. WE HAVE NO INTENTION, BUT THAT'S A STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE AND THEN WE'VE HEARD DIFFERENT STATEMENTS. >> WELL, I WOULD GO BY, THIS IS A DEPUTY CITY MANAGER OVER HERE, AND HE'S TAKEN HEAT FOR THAT TITLE. BUT HIS ORGANIZATION. >> HE GOT THE ROADS DONE RIGHT AWAY. [LAUGHTER] >> WELL, THERE YOU GO. THAT'S ALREADY, YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY RESPONSE HAPPENS AND A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THE INTERACTION HAPPENS BETWEEN CITY AND COMMUNITY PEOPLE. I THINK WRITE HIS NAME DOWN. >> WHAT'S THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION? >> I CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. [LAUGHTER] >> IF YOU GO TO THE ORIGINAL LOT OF RECORD, I THINK WE DETERMINED THE OTHER DAY. >> YEAH. IT WAS MARGARET PEARSON AND I THE PLANNING MANAGER. IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK TO LOTS OF RECORD, THERE'S NO SUBDIVISION FEE BECAUSE THOSE ARE LOTS OF RECORD. HOWEVER, IF YOU'VE BUILT OVER LOT LINES THAT WOULD CONFLICT WITH THAT ELEMENT OF THE CODE 10,304 AND 10,305, DEMOLITION OF STRUCTURES ON COMBINED LOTS. SO IF YOU BUILT OVER A LOT LINE, YOU WOULD CONSTITUTE THOSE TWO LOTS. I WAS ONE BUILDING SITE, AND YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SPLIT THEM OUT AGAIN AND BUILD TWO STRUCTURES ON EACH. >> UNLESS? >> UNLESS YOU GOT A VARIANCE. >> YOU GOT A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD. >> I'M MOVING THIS QUESTION TO THE OTHER PERSON. >> SO IF I HAVE THREE LOTS. >> I THINK SOMETIMES THINGS ARE MISUNDERSTOOD WHEN THERE'S CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN STAFF AND OWNERS. BECAUSE I THINK MIA HAS HIT IT ON THE HEAD AS THE ATTORNEY HERE. THAT YOU MAY HAVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO COMBINE THEM, AND THEY MAY ADVISE THEM NOT TO BECAUSE 10,305 IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD PROHIBIT YOU FROM VERY EASILY PUTTING THEM BACK TO THE UNDERLYING LOTS OF RECORD WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A VARIANCE PROCESS. AS AN ATTORNEY, I CAN TELL YOU I ADVISED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY CLIENTS NOT TO COMBINE LOTS. SOMETIMES I THINK FROM AN ATTORNEY PERSPECTIVE AND LISTENING TO STAFF, TALK TO THE PUBLIC, I KNOW THIS DEBATE GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN OUR BOARD, IT'S NOT SOMETIMES THERE'S MISUNDERSTANDING. ABSOLUTE YOU'RE TOLD NOT TO COMBINE. YOU HEAR THE REASONS WHY, SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT GOING ON. WHEN WE GET BACK TO IT, I DIDN'T MEAN TO JUMP IN ON THAT. I JUST FELT LIKE SOMETIMES IT'S, AND THOSE ARE LEGAL ISSUES, IF THERE ARE CONCERNS THEY CAN BRING IT TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. >> I KNOW ONE THAT'S GOING TO COME UP A FEW TIMES, BECAUSE OF THE GRID, PEOPLE HAVE BUILT HOMES ON ONE LOT AND THEN GARAGE WITH APARTMENTS ON THE OTHER LOT. THEY'VE NOT CROSSED LOT LINES BECAUSE YOU HAD THE FIVE FOOT CORRIDORS ON EACH SIDE. THAT QUESTION COMES UP A LOT IS, WELL, CAN WE AT SOME POINT SEPARATE THIS AND THAT BE ONE LOT AND THIS BE ANOTHER LOT? I'VE HEARD THAT COMMENT COME UP A FEW TIMES. [01:10:03] >> I WILL SAY THAT I THINK THAT VARIANCE APPLICATION, IF SOMEONE WANTED TO SEPARATE LOTS THAT THEY'VE BUILT ON BEFORE AND THE STRUCTURE WAS DEMOLISHED, I THINK THAT'D BE A VERY STRONG VARIANCE APPLICATION AS SEPARATING THOSE LOTS BACK OUT TO THEIR ORIGINAL PONIES AND MEDIA PONIES WOULD BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE GRID. I THINK THAT IS A VARIANCE APPLICATION THAT WILL BE STRONG. >> THEY'VE BEEN BUILT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GRID. BUILT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT. >> WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? >> I THINK IT'S A CASE BY CASE BASIS. >> MR. BOARDMAN GAVE AN EXAMPLE WHERE HE HAS THREE PONIES, I THINK. >> HE HAS THREE AND ON ONE PONIA, YOU HAVE A HOUSE IS A HOUSE GARAGE. THEN ON THE OTHER PONIA, YOU'VE GOT [OVERLAPPING] WITH AN ACCESSORY DWELLING, BUT IT GOT THE VARIANCE TO GO BEYOND 500. >> IF I COULD INTERJECT HERE FOR 1 MINUTE. THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD AND SO WE COULD HAVE APPLICATIONS IN FRONT OF US THAT COULD BE PERTINENT TO THESE PEOPLE. I THINK WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE OUT OF WITH HYPOTHETICALS USING SPECIFIC EXAMPLES. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE PUTTING STAFF ON THE SPOT OF HYPOTHETICALS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TIME. I MEAN, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, AND THAT WAS SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS I WAS GOING TO TOUCH ON WHEN YOU GUYS WERE DONE, BUT I THINK WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE BEYOND. >> OKAY. BUT MR. BOARDMAN NEEDS TO COME TALK TO YOU, GUYS. >> YES. >> HE'S THE PERSON WHO HAD THE QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AT LEAST EXPRESSED TO ME. >> THAT'S FAIR. >> IT'S NOT ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, AND IF IT WERE, WE WOULD HAVE TO BE DOING THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES. WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE DISCLOSURE OF EXPARTE. SO FOR THE EXAMPLE, GIVEN THAT IF EACH MEMBER WORKED WITH STAFF TO HELP WITH THE APPLICATION, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DISCLOSE ALL THAT. IT'S NOT THE TIME TO BE ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD. [OVERLAPPING] >> THERE ISN'T THIS NO, YOU CAN'T. THERE ARE WAYS TO BE SEPARATE IT IF. >> WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. >> WHEN AN INFORMATION WAS SHARED WITH US, MISS PRINCE, IT WAS A BLACK AND WHITE STATEMENT. I WAS TOLD IF I COMBINE LOTS, I CAN NEVER SEPARATE THEM AGAIN. THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS. THERE ARE OCCASIONS WHEN IT CAN HAPPEN, BUT YOU HAVE TO GO MEET WITH MARGARET AND MIA. >> COOL. ALL RIGHT. MIA, MEET YOU. [NOISE]. >> CONNIE CHAPMAN, 1017 SAN FERNANDO. A COUPLE OF THINGS. I HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN JEFF AND I BUILT DOWNTOWN AND WE WERE DOING OUR WORKING WITH THE ARCHITECT, I THINK IT WAS 2020. I THINK. BUT JEFF AND I WENT ON THE CITY WEBSITE AND WE READ THOSE GUIDELINES WORD BY WORD MULTIPLE TIMES. SO WHEN WE WERE READING THOSE GUIDELINES IN 2020, WERE WE READING THE 99 GUIDELINES, THE 13 OR WHAT? >> PROBABLY 13? >> WELL, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW AN ABSOLUTE ANSWER TO THAT BECAUSE IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT, AND THERE'S NO LEGALLY ANSWER THAT. WE DON'T. DO WE KNOW? >> WAIT A MINUTE. THERE'S NO HYPOTHETICAL HERE. WE READ THE GUIDELINES IN 2020. WHAT I'M ASKING IS, WERE THOSE GUIDELINES THAT WERE ON THE CITY WEBSITE, THE CURRENT ONES, DO YOU UPDATE THOSE GUIDELINES? YES. OR WERE WE READING SOMETHING THAT I MEAN, OUR PLAN SAILED RIGHT THROUGH. WE HAD NO OBJECTION FROM THE COMMISSION OR THE COUNCIL, AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, FAIRLY EASY. >> GOOD. >> BUT WE HAD THE ARCHITECT WHO KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING, AND WE HAD READ ALL THE GUIDELINES, BUT I JUST I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WHEN YOU GET THESE GUIDELINES ALL REVISED AND REFORMATTED, WILL THEY BE ON THE CITY WEBSITE AND IT'LL BE THE MOST CURRENT? >> YES. >> OKAY. >> AS SOON AS THEY'RE UPDATED, AND THEN THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE COMMISSION AND THE COMMISSION ADOPTS THEM, AND THEN EVERYTHING GETS UPDATED ON THE WEBSITE. THAT'S WHY THE 2021, WAS NOT THERE BECAUSE THE COMMISSION THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION FROM THAT DID NOT ADOPTED. WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT WAS. >> WE WERE PRIOR TO '21. >> WE WERE LOOKING AT THE MOST CURRENT. >> I WILL SAY THAT THE 2021 REVISIONS ARE AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE, BUT IT SAYS 2021 PROJECT REVISIONS ON ADOPTED. IT'S VERY CLEAR THERE. AND WHEN YOU CLICK ON DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT HAS THE UPDATED, WELL, THE CURRENT DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THE 2013 OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES. >> THE OTHER THING I WANT TO DO IS JUST I WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THE CITY STREETS. WHAT THE CITY PEOPLE DID OVER THE LAST WEEK IS FABULOUS. >> OH, EXCELLENT. >> WE'VE NEVER HAD SUCH GOOD WORK DONE OUT THERE [01:15:02] WHERE THERE WAS FILLING IN OF ALL THE RUTS AND SMOOTHING OVER, AND THEY ACTUALLY CLEANED OFF THE RIBBON CURVES CURVES. I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT DONE IN THE FIVE YEARS WE'VE BEEN THERE. >> EXCELLENT. >> I APPRECIATE IT A LOT. GOOD. >> SO THINGS ARE CHANGING? >> YEAH. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANT TO DO IS I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE PARCELS AND THE PLATS ON THAT FOR JUST A SECOND. WE BUILT OUR HOUSE ON ONE LOT. WE PUT OUR GARAGE ON THE SECOND LOT, AND THEN WE HAVE A THIRD VACANT LOT AND THEY'RE RIGHT IN LINE ON SAN FERNANDO STREET. THEY WERE ALL SEPARATE LOTS AS SEPARATE PARCELS WHEN WE DID THAT. AFTER WE WERE DONE BUILDING, I DIDN'T WANT TO GET TWO TAX STATEMENTS BEFORE WE BOUGHT THE THIRD LOT. I WENT TO THE COUNTY AND SAID, IS IT ANY BIG DEAL TO COMBINE THESE? NO ONE PAGE FORM. BUT SHE SAID TO ME AT THE TIME, IT'S EASIER TO COMBINE THEM THAN IT IS TO SPLIT THEM APART. SHE DIDN'T GIVE ME ANY DETAIL ABOUT THAT, BUT WE DID THAT. I FILLED OUT THE FORM. THEY WERE COMBINED. SHE ALSO SAID, THAT OUR TAXES WEREN'T REDUCED BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT THE TAXES ACTUALLY STAYED THE SAME. I WAS JUST ONE TAX BILL INSTEAD OF TWO. BUT FROM WHAT I'M HEARING, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS. THIS IS SO, I'M NOT A HYPOTHETICAL CASE. I HAVE A HOUSE A LOT, I HAVE A GARAGE ON ANOTHER LOT, AND THOSE ARE ONE PARCEL, AND THEN I HAVE A THIRD SEPARATE PARCEL. WHAT I'M HEARING IS IF WE TAKE THAT VACANT LOT AND WE'VE ABSOLUTELY DONE NOTHING WITH IT IS JUST GRASS, AND WE COMBINE IT, SO I'VE GOT ONE PARCEL WITH THREE LOTS. I CAN LATER BREAK THAT APART AS LONG AS I DON'T HAVE ANY BUILDINGS OR ANYTHING THAT'S CROSSING THE LOT LINE. >> IT'S FINE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> SO I HAVE. COOL. >> ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING? HOW YOUR GRANDKIDS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT? >> OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO TOUCH ON A FEW MORE THINGS, IF I MAY, MADAM CHAIR. SURE. THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCESS GOES TO WHO SPEAKS WHEN AND IN WHAT ORDER. AS YOU HANDLED ALREADY, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, WE CANNOT REQUIRE AN APPLICANT TO HAVE A CERTIFIED PERSON. THE APPLICANT MUST AND CAN AND HAS EVERY RIGHT UNDER THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES TO QUESTION STAFF, SPEAK DIRECTLY WITH STAFF, AND ANSWER STAFF'S QUESTIONS OR THE BOARD'S QUESTIONS. THAT IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURE. WE DID NOT TAKE THE TIME TO READ TONIGHT. BUT THAT IS WHERE THAT COMES FROM. AS WE SAID, AND AS YOU STATED QUITE CLEARLY, ANYBODY CAN PRESENT FOR THEM. THEN I DID TOUCH UPON IF WE ARE GOING TO BE ASSIGNING BOARD MEMBERS TO WORK WITH A STAFF MEMBER ON ANY OF YOUR APPLICATIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE QUITE JUDICIAL, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED AT THIS MEETING. THEN, JUST BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID TONIGHT, THERE IS SIGNIFICANT CASE LAW THAT, STAFF GIVES YOU THE ANSWER THAT THEY THINK IS THE BEST ANSWER. IF IT DID HAPPEN TO BE WRONG, THE CITY IS NOT BOUND BY THAT NECESSARILY, BECAUSE STAFF IS NOT THE BINDING AGENT. WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS TONIGHT IS THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE NOT CHARGED WITH MAKING THE DETERMINATIONS OF WHETHER LOTS CAN BE SPLIT. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNING BODY THAT MAKES THAT DECISION, OR THAT WOULD MAKE THE DECISION ON WHETHER OR VARIANCE COULD BE GRANTED. I WAS JUST TRYING TO KEEP US FROM HAVING A LOT OF INFORMATION ON THE RECORD THAT REALLY WASN'T PERTINENT. ALSO, IF ANY OF THESE CASES CAME BEFORE THE BOARD AGAIN, YOU KNOW, NOW WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING THEM WITHOUT HIM BEING NOTICED, WITHOUT, SO THAT WAS MY CONCERN THERE. BUT THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES ARE VERY SPECIFIC IN HOW THINGS ARE HANDLED, AND THAT'S WHY THE BOARD HANDLES IT IN THOSE MANNERS, AND LETS THE PEOPLE SPEAK AND LETS PEOPLE ANSWER QUESTIONS WHETHER THEY HAPPEN TO BE AN ARCHITECT OR NOT. THEY'RE ALLOWED TO IT'S THEIR OWN APPLICATION, AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT UNDER THE CASE LAW TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF AND ANSWER AND THAT SORT OF THING. I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT TO THIS DISCUSSION. >> THIS IS WHY THEY DIDN'T LET ME IN LAW SCHOOL. [LAUGHTER] >> I WOULDN'T TRY. >> EVERYBODY FROM OLD TOWN THAT'S HERE, ARE YOU GOOD NOW SO FAR? THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND FOR PARTICIPATING, BECAUSE WE NEED THAT. >> IF YOU WANT TO GET ON THIS BOARD, WE HAVE A VACANCY. >> YES, WE DO. >> YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ARCHITECT. >> NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF PRESERVATION. I MEAN, JUST GOING THROUGH A BUILDING PROCESS IN OLD TOWN MIGHT HAVE GIVEN YOU A LOT OF THAT EXPOSURE. >> YEAH. >> WE ARE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER MEMBER. YOU CAN CONTACT THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE FOR AN APPLICATION. COME JOIN US. [01:20:07] IT'S FINE. WATER'S FINE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM ANYBODY ON THE BOARD ISSUES OR ANYTHING BEFORE WE GET TO STAFF APPROVAL? >> I JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO SAY ABOUT THE OLD TOWN UPDATE PROCESS. MCKENNA AND I ARE PLANNING TO PRESENT A DRAFT AT THE NEXT MEETING, SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A STAB AT INCORPORATING WHAT WE HEARD AT THE OUTREACH MEETING INTO THE GUIDELINES. THAT'LL JUST BE A FIRST ROUGH DRAFT, WHERE WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS THESE AND SHOW YOU WHAT IT'LL LOOK LIKE COMBINING THOSE TWO DOCUMENTS. WE'LL CONTINUE TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK IN THAT MEETING, AND PROBABLY IN MARCH, WE'RE GOING TO NEED ANOTHER ROUND WITH A ROUGH DRAFT WITH SOME MORE FEEDBACK. THIS IS THE PROPOSED ORDER OF CONTENT FOR THE NEW DRAFT. THIS IS ALSO IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET IN THE SIDE-BY-SIDE REVIEW OF 2013 AND 2021. OUR MAIN FINDINGS FOR THIS WERE THAT THERE IS A BIGGER DIFFERENCE THAN WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT. WHEN I FIRST STARTED THIS PROCESS, I THOUGHT THE 2021 GUIDELINES WERE MORE OF A TURNKEY DOCUMENT. AS WE DISCOVERED, THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN LEFT OUT OF THAT, SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE. MCKENNA AND I ARE WORKING WITH THAT. WE'VE RECEIVED THE NATIVE DOCUMENT FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, SO WE HAVE FULL PERMISSION TO MAKE EDITS TO THAT DOCUMENT. THERE WERE THREE ITEMS THAT CAME OUT OF THE SIDE-BY-SIDE REVIEW THAT WE WANTED TO BRING TO HDC FOR INPUT BEFORE WE GET STARTED WITH OUR ROUGH DRAFT. THE FIRST ONE WAS THE DENSITY SCALE AND MASSING QUESTION. FOR LOT COVERAGE, WE'VE BEEN SEEING A LOT OF PROJECTS THAT MAXIMIZE LOT COVERAGE THROUGH UNCONDITIONED CONNECTING ELEMENTS SINCE THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THAT 45% LOT COVERAGE CALCULATION. DOES THIS MEET THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES? THAT'S JUST A DISCUSSION. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT 45% LOT COVERAGE WAS TO ALLOW FOR MORE YARD SPACE. I UNDERSTAND THE INDOOR, OUTDOOR LIVING CULTURE THAT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO CREATE. BUT I THINK TO MR. SALA'S POINT BEFORE, WE'RE HAVING GARAGES THAT HAVE SLATS IN THE SIDE THAT ARE UNCONDITIONED, UNENCLOSED, AND THAT'S BEING EXCLUDED FROM THE 45% LOT COVERAGE, SO WHAT WE'RE ENDING UP WITH IS LARGER HOUSES THAT APPEAR THAT THEY'RE TAKING UP MORE OF THE LOT. NOW WE'RE REVISING OUR GUIDELINES, SO I JUST WANTED TO BRING THE ITEM FOR DISCUSSION FOR MCKENNA AND I TO LOOK FURTHER INTO TO BRING A DRAFT OF THE 2026 ONES AND SEE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES THERE. >> I WAS VERY ENCOURAGED BY READING OVER THAT BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE DOING EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. OUR JOB UP HERE IS FAR EASIER WHEN WE HAVE CLEAR, CONCISE GUIDELINES TO READ FROM AND POINT TO AND MAKE DETERMINATIONS FROM. IT'S REALLY HARD WHEN THERE AREN'T MANY THINGS DEFINED, AND YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT'S BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY. BUT IT'S ALWAYS SUPER HELPFUL WHEN YOU CAN TAKE STUFF AND EMBED THEM IN THERE, I THINK YOUR POINT THERE IS REALLY GOOD, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE OPPORTUNITY TALKING ABOUT, DOES IT MEET THE INTENT IN THE GUIDELINES? I DON'T THINK SO SOME OF THE RULES AND THE WAY THEY'RE WORDED, AND CERTAINLY THE WAY PAST REGIMES HAVE INTERPRETED ACTIVE ELEMENTS, IF YOU GO TO THE EXTREME, YOU COULD COVER THE ENTIRE LOT WITH A CONNECTIVE ELEMENT, AND IT WOULDN'T COUNT TOWARDS. YEAH, IT'S RIDICULOUS, I THINK REALLY THE LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED TO REIN THAT IN, AND PUT SOME REASONABLE GUIDELINES IN PLACE. I'M REALLY HAPPY TO SEE THAT WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THIS AND MAKE A BETTER, STRONGER SET OF GUIDELINES. >> I THINK THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THOSE TWO GOALS ARE REALLY MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. >> YEAH. >> THEY DO NOT PERTAIN TO EACH OTHER. THE 45% LOT COVERAGE IS FOR DRAINAGE, FOR WATER MANAGEMENT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PEONIAS OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE. IT ALMOST BECOMES A WORKAROUND BY SAYING THIS IS A CONNECTIVE ELEMENT, AND IT'S NOT INCLUDED, AND MAYBE THAT'S AN ORDINANCE CHANGE UNDER ROOF, ON SLAB, ON SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE VERY WELL-DEFINED BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT FOR MANY REASONS. >> WERE YOU LOOKING FOR FINAL DIRECTION ON THESE THREE? >> NO. THIS IS THE KIND OF DISCUSSION I WANTED TO HEAR. WE'RE GOING TO GO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH, AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT WHEN WE BRING THE DRAFT BACK ABOUT WHAT LANGUAGE WE WANT TO INCLUDE. >> BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE PATHWAY UNDERNEATH IT AT ALL, [01:25:03] WHETHER IT'S GRAVEL, CONCRETE, PAVERS, IT'S JUST THE CONNECTED ELEMENT, CORRECT? >> RIGHT. IT DOES SAY UNCONDITIONED, SO UNCONDITIONED AND UNENCLOSED, BUT IT DOESN'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE SURFACE, PAVED OR UNPAVED. >> THE EXAMPLE IS IF WE TOOK THIS WALL OFF, THIS WHOLE ROOM WOULDN'T BE COUNTED [INAUDIBLE] EVEN THOUGH IT HAS THREE WALLS, AND YOU CAN HAVE SLIDING GLASS WINDOWS OR SCREENS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO YOU CAN ALMOST MAKE IT A NINE-MONTH ROOM FOR MORE. THAT'S THE PART THAT I THINK. TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE BOARD, THEY COULDN'T SAY NO BECAUSE IT WAS [INAUDIBLE] >> ANY OTHER COMMENTS TO SHARE WITH ME ON THIS? LET'S GO TO NUMBER 2. >> THE NEXT ONE, I'M GOING TO READ THIS SECTION OF IT, THE SIDEYARD AND MIDLOT VISIBILITY CORRIDORS. THE 2013 GUIDELINES SAY, EVERY POINT OF THE REQUIRED CORRIDOR SHALL BE OPENED FROM ITS LOWEST POINT TO THE SKY, UNOBSTRUCTED, EXCEPT FOR THE ORDINARY PROJECTION OF SILLS, BELT COURSES, BUTTRESSES, ORNAMENTAL FEATURES, CHIMNEYS, AND EAVES, PROVIDED THAT NONE SUCH PROJECTION SHALL PROJECT INTO THE SIDEYARD MORE THAN 24 INCHES. CONNECTING ELEMENTS SUCH AS BALCONIES, PORCHES, AND BAY WINDOWS MAY ALSO BE ALLOWED IN THIS PROJECTION UNDER THE DIMENSIONAL RESTRICTIONS. DOES THIS MEET THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES? PART OF THE GRID IS THAT MIDLOT AND SIDELOT VISIBILITY CORRIDOR. AS IT'S WRITTEN NOW, ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS AND PORCHES MAY ENCROACH INTO THAT MID-LOT VISIBILITY CORRIDOR BY TWO FEET. THAT IS CONTRADICTING EVERY POINT OF THE REQUIRED CORRIDOR, SHALL BE OPEN FROM ITS LOWEST POINT TO THE SKY. IT'S A DIRECT CONTRADICTION IN THAT EXACT SENTENCE. I THINK WE DO RUN INTO TROUBLE WITH THAT WHEN STAFF IS TRYING TO DETERMINE, DOES THIS HOUSE MEET THE REQUIRED SETBACKS? SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT OR GUIDANCE WOULD BE HELPFUL. >> WHAT YOU JUST SAID, DOES THAT TRANSLATE TO A NO ON THE QUESTION? DOES IT MEET THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES? >> IT'S A QUESTION TO THE BOARD. >> THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. >> I WOULD SAY NO. I MEAN, I DON'T SEE HOW A BALCONY, A PORCH, OR A BAY WENT WELL. PORCH COULD BE A CONDITION. >>YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING. >> BUT A BAY WINDOW ON A BALCONY, I DON'T SEE HOW THOSE QUALIFY. >> TWO FOOT, THAT'S A LOT. >> TWO FOOT INTO FIVE FOOT SECTION IS A LOT. >> RIGHT. >> IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY. >> YEAH, EXACTLY. >> IT DOESN'T MEET THE INTENT, SO I GUESS THAT MEANS MORE WORK FOR YOU. >> NUMBER 3. >> NUMBER 3. THIS IS THE QUESTION ABOUT THOSE GRID SCENARIOS. SCENARIOS FOR MAINTENANCE OF THE GRID INCLUDE LOW, LOW MEDIUM, MEDIUM, MEDIUM, HIGH, AND HIGH TOLERANCE FOR CHANGING THE GRID. CLEANING UP THIS ELEMENT, AS ALL OF THOSE SCENARIOS HAVE BEEN MOVED FROM 1999-2013. DO WE WANT TO CHOOSE A SCENARIO? >> THE ONE SET OF GUIDELINES, HOW YOU HAVE AT, NOT THIS, YOU MAYBE WITH THAT, WITH THE HIGH ONE, NOT THIS KIND OF SITUATION. >> THIS NOT THIS? >> YEAH, THIS NOT THIS. >> IN TERMS OF MAINTAINING THE TURNING RADIUSES OR THE MATERIAL OF THE ROAD. >> DID THAT FALL INTO THE LOW MEDIUM, MAINTAINING THE TURNING RADIUSES? >> YES, THAT WAS THE LOW MEDIUM. >> LOW AND LOW MEDIUM? >> YEAH. THAT'S IT FOR NOW ABOUT THINGS I WANTED TO ASK YOU GUYS DIRECTLY TONIGHT. ALSO IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET IS MY WORKING LIST OF PAGES TO BE INCLUDED IN THE 2026 VERSION. WORKING FROM THAT SIDE-BY-SIDE DOCUMENT, WE'RE CREATING A SPREADSHEET, MCKENNA AND I. SHE'S BEEN A REALLY GOOD HELP AND A REALLY GOOD PARTNER IN THIS. I'M REALLY THANKFUL TO HAVE HER HERE WORKING WITH ME. [LAUGHTER] BUT JUST WORKING FROM THOSE DOCUMENTS, OUTLINING OUT WHAT IS GOING TO BE EXACTLY ON EACH PAGE, COMBINING THE TEXT FROM 2013 WITH WHAT WE LIKE FROM 2021. NOW THAT WE HAVE THE NATIVE DOCUMENT FROM UF, WE'RE GOING TO START JUST PLUGGING AND CHUGGING. THEN WE'RE GOING TO GET A ROUGH DRAFT TO YOU GUYS BY FEBRUARY 19TH, AND WE CAN HAVE A MORE DETAILED DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SEEING IN THAT DRAFT AT THAT TIME. >> GREAT WORK. THANK YOU BOTH. IT'S EXCELLENT. YOU, TOO. ANY COMMENTS ON THE STAFF CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL? >> I HAVE A QUESTION ON ONE OF THEM. IT'S THE COA HDC SA 2025-0023. I BELIEVE WHAT THIS IS REFERRING TO IS THE REPAINTING THE CONCRETE MONUMENT POSTS AT THE INTERSECTIONS. >> YES. >> I THOUGHT IT WAS, SO IT APPEARS, IF I FOLLOWED THE LIST THAT THIS IS REFLECTIVE OF THE MONUMENTS WEST OF 8TH STREET. [01:30:03] >> I DIDN'T GEOGRAPHICALLY CHOOSE THEM. IN THAT COA, I CHOSE THE ONES THAT ARE IN MOST NEED OF ATTENTION. >> I'M GOING TO REQUEST THAT YOU LOOK AT THE CITY LOOKS AT THE MONUMENTS THAT ARE EAST OF 68TH STREET AS WELL, BECAUSE THEY'RE IN POOR CONDITION, NOT THAT THEY NEED TO BE REPLACED BY. THEY DEFINITELY NEED TO BE PAINTED. SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE IN THE LAST FOUR OR SO YEARS, SOMEONE WENT ALONG AND ACTUALLY REPAINTED THEM ALL WHITE, AND THEY WERE NEVER RELABELED. >> RESTENCILED. >> RESTENCILED, YEAH. >> THEN I KNOW WHEN MCKENNA AND I DID THAT SURVEY, WE DID FOCUS ON WEST OF 8THSTREET, BUT WE'LL DEFINITELY GO BACK AND DO A SURVEY. >> WHATEVER, IT DOESN'T OR SO ON THE OTHER SIDE. >> I'M WORKING WITH DAVID TAYLOR, THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STREETS AND PUBLIC WORKS, WHERE HE'S GETTING HIS FEET UNDER HIM IN A NEW POSITION, BUT HE KNOWS THAT WE'RE THE CONTACT FOR STUFF IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE WERE WORKING WITH TIMMY KOSAK, AND HOPEFULLY, GETTING OUT AND [INAUDIBLE] SOME OF THOSE PLAIN ONES COMING UP HERE SOON. >> I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT'S HAPPENED, THAT'S DIFFERENT, THAT I KNOW I TRULY APPRECIATE IS THE WILLINGNESS OF THE CITY WHEN THE WORK IS BEING DONE BY THE CITY FOR THE CITY RESOURCES. THERE'S MORE WILLINGNESS NOW TO COME HERE AND TALK ABOUT IT. WHENEVER THESE MONUMENTS WERE PAINTED ALL WHITE WITHOUT STENCILING, I DOUBT THAT EVEN CAME BEFORE THE HDC AT THE TIME. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, THE LITTLE CONCRETE. >> MAYBE 30 INCHES TALL, YEAH. >> THAT ARE STREET MARKERS. WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF THOSE LEFT, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE KEEP THEM. ARE WE GOOD? >> I HAVE TWO MORE THINGS, AND THEN I'M GOOD. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BRING A DRAFT OF THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FOR PECK BACK IN FEBRUARY. >> THANK YOU. >> YOU'LL HAVE SOME HEAVY READING, SOME INTERESTING READING, HOPEFULLY. MEMBER POZZETTA, HAD MENTIONED TO ME, BACK IN THE SUMMERTIME, WE DID A WINDOW WALKABOUT DOWNTOWN WHERE WE INVITED MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. IT WAS NEW, SO I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT THINGS. BUT HOPEFULLY, WE CAN GET SOME MORE PEOPLE OUT, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE DOING A DOWNTOWN WALKABOUT FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES AND ADUS. I WAS WONDERING IF THE BOARD HAD ANY OTHER IDEAS FOR THE WALKABOUT, AND IF THEY WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF ANOTHER KIND OF WALKING OPEN TO THE PUBLIC MEETING TO DISCUSS STYLES DOWNTOWN. >> CHIMNEYS AND BRICKWORK AT SOME POINT. >> THAT WOULD BE COOL. >> I'LL BRING TED. [LAUGHTER] >> I WAS THINKING SIDING TYPES. THERE ARE SO MANY OUT THERE, I THINK TAYLOR HAD DONE A REALLY GOOD PRESENTATION A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. BUT ONCE AGAIN, IT'S A NICE THING IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET OUT THERE AND PUT YOUR OWN EYES ON IT. >> MAYBE PORCHES, PORCH FLOORS. >> JUST FOR THE MEMBERS SITTING IN THE GALLERY HERE, WE DID END OUR LAST WALKABOUT AT THE OLD SCHOOLHOUSE AND THE PRINCIPALS. >> PRINCIPALS TALK. [LAUGHTER] BUT THEY WERE OFF THE CLOCK. >> OFF THE CLOCK, BUT IT WAS FUN, JUST TALK ABOUT THE SCENE AND EVERYTHING. >> I'M DONE. >> IS EVERYBODY OKAY, BECAUSE I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS? >> I HAVE ONE THING. >> GO AHEAD. >> JUST THE COA FOR 28 NORTH FOURTH. I'M SURE THAT THEY'RE REPLACING THE SAME SHINGLES. IT JUST DOESN'T SAY IN KIND, AND I KNOW THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE TRYING TO EMPHASIZE. I CONSTANTLY AM TRYING TO REMEMBER WHEN I'M SUBMITTING MY OWN PERMITS. I'M PUTTING IN KIND, AND IF IT'S CHANGING, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT TRIGGERS SOMETHING FOR STAFF IF IT'S LIKE, OKAY, IS THIS A CHANGE FROM WHAT'S EXISTING, OR IS THIS WHAT WE'RE GOING BACK WITH? >> I'LL MAKE SURE TO HAVE THEM MODIFY THEIR PERMIT DESCRIPTION, JUST SO WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THINGS IN KIND. I HEAR YOU. >> I HAVE TWO THINGS. ONE, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE BRINGING BACK THE PECK NATIONAL REGISTER APPLICATION. IS THAT AFTER YOU'RE DONE WITH YOUR RESPONSE TO THE STATE? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE? >> NO. IT'S BEFORE WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THE STATE. >> BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU PLAN TO GO BACK TO THE STATE? >> YES. >> WE'RE TRYING TO GET PECK HIGH SCHOOL ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER. IT'S A ROSENWALD SCHOOL, WHICH IS A BIG DEAL. >> PART OF THAT IS WE'RE GETTING IT RESURVEYED. THE MOST RECENT SURVEY WE HAVE OF PECK ON FILE IS FROM 2014, SO THAT IS PROCEEDING WHEN THE PAVILION WAS PLACED IN THEIR FIELD AND ALSO THE TRACK. [01:35:01] WE NEED AN UPDATED SURVEY TO BE ABLE TO LABEL THOSE STRUCTURES. ALSO, WE DISCOVERED IN OUR RESEARCH THAT THERE WAS AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND ANOTHER STRUCTURE ON THE FIELD SITE. WE HAVE TO LABEL THOSE AS WELL, AND WE'RE BREAKING IT OUT BY BUILDING AND DESCRIBING EACH OF THOSE BUILDINGS INDIVIDUALLY FROM THERE. >> ALSO, MY OTHER ITEM WAS THAT. I THINK YOU WERE COPIED ON AN EMAIL FROM A WOMAN INTERESTED IN THE HISTORIC MARKER. >> YES. >> TAMARA [INAUDIBLE] SHE'S LOOKING FOR SPONSORSHIP TO HELP PAY FOR BUYING IT. >> YES. >> SHE SAID $2,500? >> IS IT POSSIBLE TO ASK MAYOR HAMBURG FOR THE CITY TO MAYBE ANNOUNCE THAT THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING TO SEE IF WE CAN GET ANYBODY WHO'S WILLING TO DONATE MONEY FOR THAT? >> YES. I CAN HAVE HER ASK MORE DIRECTLY, I DID THAT LITTLE FLASHBACK FERNARDINA VIDEO BY WHERE HER MANSION USED TO BE, AND THAT WAS THE SOFT ASK. >> WELL, NOW MAYBE. NOW WE NEED THE TWO PARTS. >> WE CAN DO A HARD ASK. >> GOOD. [LAUGHTER] ARE WE DONE? LET'S STOP IT. [LAUGHTER] I'M GOING TO HIT HER WITH THIS ONE. MEETING ADJOURNED. THANK YOU ALL. [BACKGROUND] * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.