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CHAIR: WELCOME TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT AND APPEALS BOARD HEARING, NOVEMBER 7, 2019.

[Call to Order]

[00:00:10]

LET'S CALL ROLL.

[Item 2]

CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING AND DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? BOARD MEMBER: MOTION TO APPROVE. BOARD MEMBER: SECOND. CHAIR: ARE THERE ANY CHANGES TO THE AGENDA TONIGHT? NO CHANGES TO THEAGENDA. BOARD MEMBER: I DO AT THE END

[Item 4]

WANT TO GIVE A BRIEF SUMMARY. IF THAT IS ALLOWED. CHAIR: OKAY. MS. BACH WOULD YOU

LIKE TO EXPLAIN THE JUDICIAL PROCEDURE PLEASE. >> SURE. I AM GOING TO GO PRETTY QUICKLY. THIS IS A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING OF THE ONE CASE THAT WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA. IT IS CONDUCTED AS A JUDICIAL HEARING IN ACCORDANCE WITH FLORIDA STATUTES AND THE CITY COMMISSION APPROVED PROCEDURES AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS, FIRST, MR. WELLS A CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER, IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD. AND THEN THE RESPONDENT, PROPERTY OWNER OR AGENT, WILL COME TO THE PODIUM AND GIVE THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS AND MAKE A PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD. AFTER THE PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE THERE COULD BE WITNESSES CALL. I DON'T SEE ANY HERE SO THERE PROBABLY WON'T BE WITNESSES. BUT ONCE THE BOARD MAKES A DECISION, THAT DECISION CAN BE APPEALED TO THE CIRCUIT COURT WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD'S WRITTEN FINDINGS OF FACT WHICH ARE USUALLY SIGNED AND ISSUE YOUED WITHIN FIVE DAYS OF THE HEARING. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? SIR, DO YOU HAVE ANY

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCEDURES FOR THE HEARING? >> I DO NOT.

>> CHAIRMAN: THANK YOU. CINDY, DO YOU WANT TO PRESENT YOUR SIDE ON 4.1 DAB TRUST.

>> JIM. >> CHAIRMAN: SIR, WE NEED TO SWEAR YOU IN. PLEASE RAISE YOUR

RIGHT HAND. >> DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE AND PRESENT IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?

>> I DO. >> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. 4.1 DAB TRUST 128 NORTH 13TH TERRACE.

CASE 2019-0242. VIOLATIONS OF THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH CODE ORDINANCES EXIST. SECTION 42-117. EXTERIOR TRUCK MAINTENANCE AND SECTION 42-116, DUTY TO MAINTAIN PROPERTY.

REQUESTING THE BOARD DETERMINATION OF THE CASE. SPEAKER: GOOD EVENING, BOARD.

AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE ALL OF OUR EVIDENCE INTO PUBLIC RECORD. ALL RIGHT.

ON MAY 31ST OF THIS YEAR, 2019, DURING A PROACTIVE SWEEP, I OBSERVED THIS PROPERTY HAD YARD OVERGROWTH THAT NEEDED TO BE CUT AND CLEANED. VEGETATION WAS GROWING ON THE VINES UP THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE. NEEDS TO BE CLEANED AND REMOVED. THE HOUSE HAD PEELING PAINT ALL OVER THAT NEEDED TO BE SCRAPED, SEALED AND PAINTED. THIS IS A NOTICE OF VISIT THAT I PLACED ON THE FRONT DOOR GIVING THE OWNER 30 DAYS TO CORRECT THE VIOLATIONS. NOTICE THAT WE WERE TAKING VIOLATIONS AT THAT TIME. JULY 1, 2019, I RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM THE OWNER. HE REQUESTED ADDITIONAL TIME TO MAKE THE REPAIRS, WHICH I GRANTED. AND INSPECTION OF THE PROPERTY SHOWED THEY WERE WORKING ON THE YARD BUT NOTHING HAD BEEN DONE TO THE STRUCTURE OF THE HOUSE. HIS SON WAS THERE AT THE TIME I CAME UP ON THE INSPECTION AND HE MENTIONED THEY HAD ARRANGED FOR SOMEONE TO PAINT THE HOUSE -- SCRAPE AND PAINT THE HOUSE. NOTHING WAS DONE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

SO, I FINALLY, ON SEPTEMBER 17, 2019, I MAILED OUT A NOTICE OF VIOLATION NOTICE OF HEARING LETTER TO THE OWNER VIA CERTIFIED MAIL AND GAVE THE OWNER UNTIL OCTOBER 17TH TO COMPLY OR COME BEFORE THE BOARD THIS EVENING. THE RETURN RECEIPT WAS RETURNED WITH THE OWNER'S SIGNATURE ON IT. OCTOBER 17TH THAT NOTICE OF VIOLATION INSPECTION WAS PERFORMED AND THE PROPERTY WAS STILL IN VIOLATION. OCTOBER 30TH, A PRE-AGENDA

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INSPECTION WAS DONE, THERE WAS NO CHANGE. PHOTOS WERE TAKEN. ON OCTOBER 30TH TESE I ALSO RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM THE OWNER ASKING ABOUT THE HEARING TONIGHT. AND I TOLD THE OWNER THAT HE COULD COME PRESENT HIS CASE BEFORE THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD AND THAT YOUR DECISION WOULD BE FINAL. THESE ARE SOME PICTURES OF THE HOUSE AS OF TODAY. STUFF GROWING ON THE ROOF. OVERGROWTH. VINES. YOU CAN SEE THE PEELING HERE, HERE. THIS IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE ON THE ROOF. THIS IS THE 42116 AND, OF COURSE, THE STRUCTURE IS 42117. OF COURSE I HAVE MORE PICTURES. THIS WAS THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION THAT WAS SENT OUT. WHICH I GAVE HIM UNTIL OCTOBER 17TH TO COMPLY FOR APPEAR BEFORE THE BOARD TONIGHT. SO, CONCLUSION. THE HOUSE AND THE PROPERTY IS STILL IN VIOLATION OF 42117 AND ALSO 42116 AS OF TODAY. THE CITY RECOMMENDS THE FINE OF $50 A DAY FOR THE VIOLATION OF 42116 AND $75 A DAY FOR THE VIOLATION OF

42117, ALONG WITH ADMINISTRATION FEES. AND THE CITY RESTS. >> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD FOR THE CITY? BOARD MEMBER: DOES ANYBODY LIVE THERE? SPEAKER: I BELIEVE THE GENTLEMAN --

SPEAKER: I DO. BOARD MEMBER: OKAY. THANK YOU. >> CHAIRMAN: ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? OKAY. SIR, IF YOU WOULD STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE FOR THE RECORD. SPEAKER: FREDERICK BROWN, 127 NORTH 13TH TERRACE.

>> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. AND YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. SPEAKER: ALL RIGHT. I'VE JUST BEEN CAUGHT UP IN WHAT'S CALLED A PERFECT STORM. THE GRANTOR THAT SOLD ME THE HOUSE, THE SOLE ERROR OF -- I STARTED TO SAY PATSY KLEIN, BUT PATSY GEORGE DECIDED TO RENEGE ON THE CONTRACT AT THE BEHEST OF A COUPLE OF ATTORNEYS THAT THOUGHT HE HAD REASON TO POSSIBLY GET OUT OF THE SALE AND POSSIBLY SOLD IT TOO CHEAP. HE WAS THE SOLE SURVIVING HEIR AND IT DID NOT GO THROUGH PROBATE. ALTHOUGH HE TOLD ME IT HAD. IF HE HADN'T HE WOULD CURE THE DEFECT SHORTLY. BUT HE DID NOT. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, I'M BEING SUED FOR FRAUDULENTLY GETTING HIM TO CONVEY THE HOUSE TO ME. AND THE ATTORNEY SAID HE HAD NO EARTHY IDEA WHAT A QUIT CLAIM DEED WAS. I BELIEVE YOU HAVE MET HIM BECAUSE I'M PRETTY SURE HE CAME -- I PRESUME HE CAME BY TO SEE YOU SHORTLY BEFORE YOU MADE THE CALL OVER THERE BECAUSE IT ALL HAPPENED AT THE SAME TIME. I CAN'T PROVE HE DID AND I DON'T GUESS YOU CAN PROVE HE DIDN'T BECAUSE YOU CANNOT PROVE A NEGATIVE BUT, NEVERTHELESS, I'VE BEEN SUED TO RENEGE ON THE DEAL. SO, YOU WON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM FINDING HIM THE NEXT TIME. I THINK YOU WERE LOOKING FOR HIM FOR FOUR YEARS AND HE IS FROM DOWN THERE -- HE IS THE BUILDING INSPECTOR FOR KINGSLEY, GEORGIA.

AND THAT'S WHERE IT STANDS RIGHT NOW. THE ONLY THING I WOULD DO, IF IN A CRIMINAL CHARGE I WOULD PLEAD NOLO BECAUSE I CANNOT CONTEST WHAT MR. WELLS AS FOUND HERE. BUT ANY DOLLARS I SPEND ON IT NOW I NEED TO SAVE IT SO I CAN GET MY STUFF AND GET OW OF TOWN BECAUSE THERE'S AN ORDER SITTING ON THE JUDGE'S DESK RIGHT NOW TO DISHE POSSESS ME. SO THE PREVIOUS OWNER, MY GRANTOR WHO FULLY AND TOTALLY GRANTED TO ME, AS HE COULD HAVE, HE WAS THE ONLY SURVIVING HEIR, HAS DECIDED TO RENEGE ON THE DEAL. I BELIEVE, IT'S MY BELIEF THAT THE ENDEUCEMENT OF A COUPLE OF ATTORNEYS WHO ARE INSTIGATING A LAWSUIT. IT'S CALLED BARE ARY WHEN YOU CAUSE A LAWSUIT TO BE INSTIGATED. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. YOU KNOW WHERE TO FIND HIM, I GUESS.

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>> NO SIR. I'VE HAD NO CONTACT WITH MR. GEORGE. SPEAKER: WELL HE IS A BUILDING IN KINGSLEY, GEORGIA. 107 NORTH MAIN STREET. IT'S CALLED E STREET. IT'S JUST THE MAIN STREET GOING THROUGH TOWN. HE LIVES AT 228, SIMILAR TO 128, GREEN -- WHAT IS THE STREET? I HAVE TO SEND HIM CERTIFIED MAIL ALL THE TIME. I'LL SEE IF I GOT ONE HERE. ANYWAY, I SPENT A LOT OF MONEY TO CONTEST THIS IN COURT. THERE'S NO POINT IN ME SPENDING ANYMORE MONEY TO JUST GO TO HIS BENEFIT. IN FACT, THE HOUSE IS REALLY IRREPARABLE. AN INVESTOR WOULDN'T PUT ANY MONEY INTO IT, HE WOULD KNOCK THE HOUSE DOWN THE DAY AFTER HE PURCHASED IT. I PLAN TO LIVE THERE. I'M 83 AND GOING INTO MY 84TH YEAR THIS MONTH. I JUST WANTED TO LIVE OUT MY LIFE THERE. I'D RATHER BE OUT WALKING ON THE BEACH OR SITTING ON A ROCK LIKE THE SINKER BUT HERE I AM. SO, DO WITH ME WHAT YOU WILL. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

>> CHAIRMAN: HAVE YOU TALKED TO AN ATTORNEY? SPEAKER: I HAVE. I HAVE. THEY THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE AND MEDIATE IT OUT. BUT IT'S GOING TO BE DONE NEXT.

BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN MEDIATE. I CAN'T MEDIATE WITH MYSELF. HE IS NOT THEIR CLIENT.

MR. GEORGE IS THEIR PAWN OR PIGEON. >> CHAIRMAN: HAVE YOU TALKED TO AN ATTORNEY WHO IS GOING TO REPRESENT YOU? SPEAKER: YES I HAVE. I HAVE TO

RETAIN ONE. >> SO, IN THIS CASE, IF I CAN HELP, JUST RULE ON THE VIOLATIONS AND THE FINES AND DON'T GET INVOLVED. I MEAN, THE PROPERTY'S HOMESTEADED. IT'S BEEN -- IT WAS QUIT CLAIMED ON OCTOBER 5, 2018. AND WE CAN'T GET INVOLVED WITH WHATEVER THE DISPUTES ARE. IF THE FINES ARE NOT PAID AND THERE ARE FINES ACTUALLY ATTACHED THEN THERE WILL BE A LIEN ON THE HOUSE. SPEAKER: IT WILL JUST ACCRUE DAY BAY DAY?

>> YES, SIR. SPEAKER: IT WILL CONTINUE ON? >> YES, SIR.

>> THE OTHER QUESTION IS THE NASSAU COUNTY BAR ASSOCIATION SUCH AS IT IS FOR JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. ARE THERE PLACES THIS GENTLEMAN CAN GO TO SEEK COUNSEL?

>> YES. BASED UPON INCOME OR LACK THEREOF IT'S CALLED JACKSONVILLE AREA LEGAL AID.

AND I'LL FIND A PHONE NUMBER RIGHT NOW FOR YOU. SPEAKER: I'VE GOT THAT NUMBER.

YEP. >> CHAIRMAN: HAVE YOU TALKED TO THEM? SPEAKER: YES I HAVE. IT'S TOO COMPLICATED AND CONVOLUTED FOR THEM TO EVEN GET INVOLVED.

>> CHAIRMAN: YOU MAY WANT TO TRY AGAIN. SPEAKER: OKAY

WHAT THEY'RE THERE FOR. SPEAKER: ALL RIGHT. >> CHAIRMAN: YOU HAVE THE

NUMBER? SPEAKER: I HAVE IT. >> CHAIRMAN: ANYMORE QUESTIONS?

OKAY THANK YOU, SIR. SPEAKER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> CHAIRMAN: ANY DISCUSSION FOR

THE BOARD? DO WE HAVE A MOTION? >> MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO RULE ON THE USUAL TWO MOTIONS.

WHETHER THEY'RE VIOLATION OR VIOLATIONS AND WHETHER THE SECOND MOTION IS FINES AND WHEN

YOU WANT THEM TO START. IF YOU FIND A VIOLATION. >> CHREMEMBER IT'S HOMESTEADED. ON FORECLOSURE ON HOMESTEAD PROPERTY, WHETHER THE FINES RUN UP TO A MILLION DOLLARS, HE HAS TO LIVE IN HIS HOUSE BUT THESE -- THAT'S HOW WE, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY GET PEOPLE TO FIX THEIR PROPERTY. BUT, IF THEY DON'T, THEN THE CITY OBVIOUSLY WE CAN GO IN THERE TOO. WE HAVE CONTRACTORS THAT MOW PROPERTY THEN WE ASSESS THOSE COSTS ON THERE. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER ACTION THAT YOU TAKE, THE PROPERTY IS HOMESTEADED AND THIS GENTLEMAN ISN'T GOING TO LOSE HIS HOUSE OR ANYTHING OR A PLACE TO LIVE. I'M SAYING, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT

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LEGAL ACTIONS ARE IN ORDER. BUT FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW. BOARD MEMBER: I DON'T MEAN TO COMPLICATE THINGS BUT IF ALL THE OTHER STUFF THAT ISN'T BEFORE US TONIGHT, IF THERE WAS A TRANSFER

>> IT DOESN'T MATTER. BOARD MEMBER: THEY STILL MOVE WITH IT RIGHT

>> THEY STAY WITH THE PROPERTY NO MATTER WHAT AT THIS POINT. BOARD MEMBER: DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? BOARD MEMBER: YES. TO ME IT DOES. I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT TO MR. BROWN SAID DOESN'T INTEND TO, CANNOT DO ANY OF THIS WORK. I AM HAVING A HARD TIME -- I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT -- BOARD MEMBER: RIGHT NOW HE CAN'T INVEST IF THE PROPERTY. ANY MONEY IN UPGRADING THE PROPERTY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW IF HE

LEGITIMATE QUESTION HICH IS A - >> WELL IT'S IN HIS NAME. BOARD MEMBER: YOU SAID HE HAS

THE QUIT CLAIM >> HE DOES. YOU DIDN'T FINISH WHAT YOU WERE SAYING THOUGH.

BOARD MEMBER: I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF -- SO IF WE DECIDE AND MAKE A MOTION TO GO WITH THE $50, $75, WHATEVER THAT IS, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING REALLY WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE IT'S -- WE'RE NEVER REALLY GOING TO GET ANY OF THAT OR RECOUP ANY OF THAT

>> YOU WILL EVENTUALLY. BOARD MEMBER: HOW? >> MAYBE NOT FROM MR. BROWN BUT FROM A FUTURE -- ONE OF THE THINGS TOO IS YOU MAY WANT TO ASK IF I MIGHT BE SO BOLD, IT LOOKS TO ME, I CAN'T SEE ANY OTHER PROPERTIES ON EITHER SIDE, BUT WE USUALLY -- THE CITY WILL GO IN AND ACTUALLY MOW AND GET VEGETATION REMOVED. PARTICULARLY IF IT'S CAUSING PROBLEM AND COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RATS OR THINGS LIKE THAT. AND SO WE MAY WANT TO GO IN THERE AND DO THAT ONCE. ESPECIALLY BASED ON MR. BROWN'S TESTIMONY THAT HE DOESN'T PLAN TO DO ANYTHING AND THIS LEGAL STUFF. WE DON'T WANT -- THAT IS -- IF WE HAVE PUBLIC HEALTH SAFETY WELFARE ISSUES, WE GO IN AND TAKE CARE OF IT, REMOVE AT LEAST FOR A TIME, THIS TIME OF YEAR IT WILL LAST LONGER THAN IT WOULD IN JULY.

BOARD MEMBER: AND THAT'S JUST ADDED ON TO WHATEVER-- >> THAT'S ADDED ON. BUT WE DON'T TO THAT VERY OFTEN. IT'S HELPFUL IF YOU MAKE THAT PART OF YOUR MOTION THAT YOU ARE DIRECTING CODE ENFORCEMENT OR THE CITY TO GO AHEAD AND ABATE AT LEAST THE EXTERIOR NUISANCE,

THE VEGETATION AND STUFF LIKE THAT. >> CHAIRMAN: LET'S TAKE A SMALL STEP AT A TIME. WE NEED TO DECIDE IF THERE'S A VIOLATION. BOARD MEMBER: I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION THERE'S A VIOLATION OF BOTH SECTIONS. I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE FIND THE PROPERTY IN VIOLATION OF SECTION 42-116 AND 42-117. BOARD MEMBER: SECOND.

>> CHAIRMAN: SECOND BY MS. CHAPMAN. SPEAKER: I DO NOT CONTEST ANY OF THE CHARGES. HE'S ALREADY GIVEN ME MORE TIME THAN I DESERVED. THIS IS LIKE I SAID CAME ON ALL AT THE SAME TIME. THAT'S WHEN THEY BROUGHT THE SUIT AGAINST ME AND THAT'S WHEN GEORGE CAME BY.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHY HE CAME BY. OH I DO OWE SOME MONEY ON THE SECOND MORTGAGE THAT I GAVE BACK TO HIM. AND HE QUICKLY CASHED THE CHECK. I GUESS AT THE ADVICE OF ADVICE OF THE ATTORNEY BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY FILED SUIT AGAINST YOU. AS IF IT WERE A FORECLOSURE SUIT, IF IT WERE A QUIET TITLE SUIT, AND IF IT WAS A SUIT TO VOID AND CANCEL THE DEED ACQUIRED BY FRAUD. SO, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST COMPLAIN OF ALL OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER AND JOB VIS KATED SO MANY THINGS TO DO. IF YOU CAN ABATE THIS FOR 30

DAYS. >> CAN YOU GO UP BY THE MIC. SO WE CAN GET YOU ON RECORD, SIR.

[00:20:03]

WE WANT YOU TO HAVE YOUR SAY ON RECORD. SPEAKER: I WILL HAVE TO START ALL OVER. I WOULD JUST SAY IF YOU COULD ABATE THE FINES FOR 30 MORE DAYS IN ADDITION TO ALL YOU HAVE GIVEN ME 30 AND 30 TWICE, I GUESS. BUT I BOUGHT THE PAINT AND I'VE GOT A LICENSED CONTRACTOR -- WHAT'S HIS NAME, DAVE. I CAN'T EVEN PRONOUNCE HIS LAST NIGHT. FRUITMAN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THIS GUY JEREMIAH WAS DOING THE YARD WORK AND I PAID HIM AND HE DIDN'T EVEN COME BACK TO CUT IT. I'D GET ALL THAT STUFF DONE. I CAN GET IT DONE. EVEN IF I HAVE TO BORROW SOMETHING FROM MY SON. HIGH SON DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE. HE GOT A BETTER JOB IN FORT WASHINGTON BEACH AT A BIGGER HOSPITAL. BUT HE LIKED IT WHILE HE WAS HERE AND I LIKE IT HERE NOW. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL STAY. THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY. 30 DAYS ABATED. BY THAT TIME I'LL KNOW WHETHER THESE PEOPLE -- THEY'VE GOT THE ORDER ON THE JUDGE'S DESK RIGHT NOW.

THEY JUST KICKED ME OUT AS IF I WERE AN INTRUDER. YOU KNOW, LIKE I DON'T EVEN BELONG THERE.

AND HE'S BEEN CASHING MY CHECKS FOR SIX MONTHS THEN QUIT CASHING THEM.

>> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. SPEAKER: ALL RIGHT.

>> CHAIRMAN: WE HAD A MOTION FOR THE VIOLATIONS. A SECOND BY MS. CHAP

CHAPMAN. >> MOTION TO FIND THE PROPERTY IN VIOLATION OF 42-116 AND

42-117. MEMBER CROWE >> YES >> MEMBER CHAPMAN

>> YES >> VICE CHAIR KAUFMAN >> YES

>> MEMBER BYRD >> YES >> MEMBER SCHULTZ

>> YES >> MEMBER KRESSE >> YES

>> CHAIR BOYD? >> YES. >> CHAIRMAN: DISCUSSION ON

TIMEFRAME AND FINES. >> SO I DON'T THINK 30 DAYS IS SUFFICIENT.

>> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. >>BOARD MEMBER: AISLE MAKE A SUGGESTION. TO GIVE MR. BROWN 60 DAYS AND SET THE TIME TO START AT SOMEWHERE AROUND 60 DAYS AND THAT SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.

SGL>>BOARD MEMBER: WELL WE'VE GOT TWO VIOLATIONS. SO, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT $50 EACH? WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO TOTAL BECAUSE IT BRINGS 116 IN COMPLIANCE AND YOU WANT THAT

FINE TO STOP. >> I THINK IN THE PAST WHEN ONE IS BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE IT

AUTOMATICALLY STOPS IS THAT RIGHT >> WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO ORDER THEM SEPARATELY. I AGREE WITH YOU, MR. BYRD. SO, IF THE YARD IS BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE IN TIME, THEN THAT'S RESOLVED. THEN YOU JUST HAVE THE ONE OUTSTANDING ISSUE. GEORGE, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT 60 DAYS? YOU'VE BEEN THERE. YOU KNOW WHERE NEIGHBORS ARE.

>> I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. THE CITY HAS NO PROBLEMS WITH 60 DAYS.

>> BOARD MEMBER: EVERYBODY OKAY WITH 60 DAYS FOR THE YARD VIOLATION AND 90 FOR THE

STRUCTURE? >> BOARD MEMBER: THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE AN EASY JOB.

>> CHAIRMAN: MR. BROWN, WHAT'S YOUR FEELING ON THE YARD? SPEAKER: THE YARD IS DOABLE. I

CAN DO THAT. >> CHAIRMAN: IN WHAT TIMEFRAME? AND THAT INCLUDES THE ROOF TOO.

IN HOW LONG LONG? SPEAKER: 60 DAYS. >> CHAIRMAN: DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD NEED A FULL 60 DAYS ON THAT. SPEAKER: NO I CAN DO IT IN 30

DAYS. BUT IF THEY WANT TO SAY 60 I'LL GO ALONG WITH IT. >> BOARD MEMBER: IN TERMS OF THE STRUCTURAL REPAIR OF THE HOUSE, ASSUMING YOU COULD EVEN FIND A CONTRACTOR IN 60 DAYS, IT'S JUST

NOT REALISTIC AT THIS POINT. >> BOARD MEMBER: THE PICTURES LOOK LIKE -- I DON'T KNOW FROM WHAT I CAN SEE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE TALKING A NEW ROOF, A MAJOR STRUCTURAL. SO, I MEAN, TO GIVE HIM 90 DAYS FOR THAT. I MEAN, MR. BROWN HAS ALREADY MADE A STATEMENT HE DIDN'T INTEND TO DO

ANY WORK ON THE PROPERTY. >> BOARD MEMBER: I THINK HE CHANGED THAT.

[00:25:01]

SPEAKER: I CHANGED IT. I'LL DO IT. >> BOARD MEMBER: DEPENDING IF HE

IS STILL THERE. >> CHAIRMAN: MR. BROWN, JUST TO CLARIFY FOR ME. YOU SAID THERE'S AN ORDER ON A JUDGE'S DESK AT THIS POINT, RIGHT? SPEAKER: THAT'S CORRECT

>> CHAIRMAN: DO YOU HAVE ANY INKLING WHEN THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE SIGNED? AND WE DON'T HAVE THOSE RECORDS. SPEAKER: NO. SEE, I TOOK IT AWAY FROM THEM BY FILING BANKRUPTCY. SO I REMOVED IT'S IN BANKRUPTCY. THE ATTORNEY THEN TRIED TO GET RELIEF FROM THE STAY. AND HE ALSO TRIED SOMETHING ELSE. AND HE'S NOT EVEN APPROVED BY THE FEDERAL COURTS. IT IS A LONG, LONG COMPLICATED THING. SO I AM GOING TO HAVE TO USE SOME MORE

KARATE TACTICS IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM. >> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. I WAS JUST LOOKING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A POINT AND TIME WHEN AT LEAST A PORTION OF THIS WOULD

GET RESOLVED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? >> BOARD MEMBER: HE WOULD HAVE

NO IDEA. >> CHAIRMAN: I MEAN, IF YOU GET A 30 DAY ORDER, IS THERE APPEARANCE DATE THAT YOU HAVE IN COURT? IS THERE ANY FILING THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE BY A DATE CERTAIN? ANY OF THOSE THINGS? DID THEY SERVE YOU WITH PAPERS AT SOME POINT? SPEAKER: LIKE I SAID, IT WAS SITTING ON HIS DESK. HE WAS GOING TO FILE THEM THE DAY I FILED IN BANKRUPTCY TAKING IT AWAY FROM THE CIRCUIT COURT. AND NOW HE FILED TO BRING IT

BACK. BUT IT IS A LONG -- IT'S VERY COMPLICATED. >> THOSE ISSUES -- WE CAN'T

SOLVE ANY OF THOSE ISSUES. >> CHAIRMAN: NO BUT I JUST WANT TO SEE IS THERE A TIME. ARE YOU CURRENTLY IN FEDERAL COURT IN BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDINGS AT THIS POINT?

SPEAKER: YES. >> CHAIRMAN: DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF THE TIMELINE FOR THAT? SPEAKER: IT WAS 30 DAYS FROM ABOUT A WEEK AGO. SO, I'VE GOT LESS THAN 30 DAYS THAT I HAVE TO GO BEFORE A HEARING TO SEE WHETHER THEY WILL TRY IT IN THE FEDERAL COURT.

>> THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. I MEAN, MY SENSE, OKAY. IS THAT MR. BROWN HAD TO FILE BANKRUPTCY. AND WHEN YOU DO THAT YOU ASK FOR A STAY ON ANY FORECLOSURE OR ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVEN'T PAID. WITH A QUIT CLAIM DEED, I'M GUESSING, JUST BASED ON RECORDS, THE QUIT CLAIM DEED, IF HE IS FINANCING IT, IT'S OWNER FINANCED. THE OWNERS HAVE COME TO COLLECT. THAT WOULD BE

MY GUESS. >> CHAIRMAN: SO AT LEAST 60 OR 90 DAYS IS A REASONABLE --

SOMETHING MAY HAPPEN >> AND WHAT YOU COULD DO ALSO MIGHT BE SORT OF AN IN BETWEEN.

YOU'VE MADE A MOTION TO FIND A VIOLATION. YOU CAN GET AN UPDATE FROM STAFF AT THE NEXT MEETING AND SEE WHERE MR. BROWN IS. IT SEEMS THAT HE'S PRETTY EASY TO CONTACT AND GET IN TOUCH WITH, TALK WITH. SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, HE'S DONE OR CAN DO. I MEAN, IT'S UP

TO YOU. WE CAN GET AN UPDATE EVERY 30 DAYS. >> CHAIRMAN: I WOULD SUGGEST WE

SET A TIMEFRAME, SET THE FINES AND LET'S MOVE FORWARD. >> BOARD MEMBER: I WILL AGREE

WITH THAT. >> BOARD MEMBER: MY COMMENT ON THAT IS, AND THEN NO MATTER WHAT

HAPPENS THAT'S OUT THERE. >> BOARD MEMBER: WHOEVER OWNS IT. THERE'S AN ORDER OUT THERE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED. WHICH YOU ALREADY KNOW AND SAID YOU WANT TO DO.

SPEAKER: RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: SO, 30 DAYS ON THE YARD. ARE WE COMFORTABLE

WITH THAT >> BOARD MEMBER: IS 30 DAYS REALISTIC TO YOU, MR. BROWN?

SPEAKER: ABSOLUTELY. >> BOARD MEMBER: HOW MUCH ON THE MAINTENANCE?

>> BOARD MEMBER: AT LEAST 90. >> BOARD MEMBER: SO I MAKE A MOTION THAT THE PROPERTY BE BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE WITH 42-116 WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF NOT, THEN A FINE OF $50 A DAY BE IMPOSED. AND THAT IT BE BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE WITH 42-117 WITHIN 90 DAYS. AND IF NOT, THEN A FINE OF -- ANOTHER FINE OF $50 A DAY FOR 42-117 UNTIL THE PROPERTY IS BROUGHT INTO

[00:30:06]

COMPLIANCE. THAT IS ALL ON THAT. I DO HAVE A QUESTION ON WHETHER YOU WANT HELP. LIKE

TAMMY SUGGESTED. WE ADDRESS THAT AT ANOTHER MEETING? >> SURE.

>> BOARD MEMBER: AND RECOVERY OF ALL ADMINISTRATIVE FEES ENCOURAGED TODAY.

>> BOARD MEMBER: HOW WOULD YOU FORGET? >> BOARD MEMBER: SHE DIDN'T

>> BUT WE NEED A SECOND. >> BOARD MEMBER: I SECOND. >> NOW YOU CAN SUMMARIZE.

MR. BROWN, THE MOTION THAT WAS JUST MADE, AND I THINK IS GOING TO PASS IN JUST A MINUTE, IS THAT YOU HAVE 30 DAYS TO GET THE YARD MOWED, THE VINES PULLED DOWN OFF THE ROOF OF THE HOUSE.

AND, IF IT'S NOT DONE IN 30 DAYS, THERE WILL BE A FINE OF $50 PER DAY THAT WILL JUST START AUTOMATICALLY RUNNING ON THE PROPERTY. SECONDLY, THE MAINTENANCE OF THE HOUSE ITSELF, THE ROOF, THE PAINTING, ALL OF THAT, YOU HAVE 90 DAYS WHICH WILL EXPIRE FEBRUARY 5TH. AND, IF IT'S NOT DONE BY THEN, FUR NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH REGARD TO THE HOUSE BY FEBRUARY 5TH, THEN A FINE OF $50 PER DAY WILL BE ASSESSED ON THAT PARTICULAR VIOLATION AND START RUNNING IN

FEBRUARY. SPEAKER: I UNDERSTAND. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR JUST MYSELF LISTENING TO YOU HERE, THANK YOU FOR BEING AN UPSTANDING AND HONEST PERSON. I MEAN, WHEN YOU JUST FALL ON YOUR SWORD SOMETIMES THAT JUST WORKS OUT BETTER. SO, THANK YOU FOR BEING HONEST AND BEING HERE TONIGHT. SPEAKER: THANK YOU. I

APPRECIATE IT. >> CHAIRMAN: AND PLEASE CALL LEGAL AID AGAIN.

SPEAKER: OKAY. >> CHAIRMAN: PROMISE? SPEAKER: I DO

PLEASE. >> YES >> YES

>> YES >> YES. >> YES.

>> YES. >> CHAIRMAN: OKAY. >> GEORGE, WILL YOU GET WITH HIM

AND HELP HIM WITH ANY RESOURCES THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE TO HIM? >> YES.

>> BOARD MEMBER: GEORGE MIGHT HAVE SOME IDEAS AND PEOPLE TO PUT FLU CONTACT WITH THAT CAN

HELP WITH THE YARD AND CLEAN UP. SPEAKER: OKAY. >> BOARD MEMBER: HE IS A WEALTH

OF INFORMATION. SPEAKER: I BELIEVE IT. >> AND THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

WE APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU, SIR. SPEAKER: THANK YOU.

[Items 5 & 6]

>> CHAIRMAN: BOARD BUSINESS 5.1 CODE AMENDMENT. CODE ENFORCEMENT OF APPEALS BOARD LIENS. ORDINANCE 2019-23. DISCUSSION OF IMPLEMENTATION OF NEW ORDINANCE.

>> I WILL JUST MAKE THE INTRODUCTION AND THEN I THINK ADAM IS GOING TO JUST DISCUSS SOME POSSIBILITIES. THERE IS SOME -- NOT CONFUSION BUT WE DIDN'T REALLY RESOLVE WHAT IT WAS. I DIDN'T GET DIRECTION, AT LEAST CLEAR DIRECTION FROM THIS BOARD ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS NEW ORDINANCE APPLIED, IF YOU WILL. SO, THE WAY THAT THE ORDINANCE READS NOW, AND IT HAS PASSED FULLY, IS THAT THIS BOARD IS NEVER GOING TO SEE A REDUCTION OF FINES REQUESTS. I MEAN, THERE MIGHT BE WITHIN A FEW SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS OKAY. SOMEBODY THAT SAYS OOPS FINE YOU CAUGHT ME I AM GOING TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE. THEY COME INTO COMPLIANCE RIGHT AWAY AND THEY'VE HAD JUST A FEW DAYS OF FINES OR SOMETHING. BUT, IF WHENEVER THIS BOARD ISSUES AN ORDER, THE WAY THAT THE ORDINANCE READS NOW AND THE WAIT WAS INTENDED TO READ IS -- AND THAT CAN CHANGE; WE CAN CHANGE THAT THROUGH AMENDMENTS AND I THINK THE CITY COMMISSION WILL APPROVE THEM IF YOU WANT. IS THAT WHEN THIS BOARD ISSUES AN ORDER, THAT ORDER IS RECORDED ABOUT 30 DAYS AFTER THE MEETING. SO WE HAVE OUR MEETING THIS MONTH. IN DECEMBER ABOUT THIS TIME, THE ORDER FROM HERE WOULD BE RECORDED, FOR EXAMPLE, AGAINST MR. BROWN. SO, FOR HIM, HIS PARTICULAR CASE, AND ADAM HAS NICELY PUT THIS HERE WITH THIS SCENARIO, BUT LET'S JUST TRACH MR. BROWN'S CASE SINCE YOU JUST HANDLED IT. IF HE DOES NOT COME INTO COMPLIANCE AND FINES START TO RUN ON DAY 31, THAT ORDER HAS BEEN RECORDED. AND LET'S SAY THEY RUN FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND HE WANTS TO HAVE A REDUCTION OR NEEDS A REDUCTION OR IF THE SUCCESSOR NEED AS REDUCTION, WHOEVER GETS THE PROPERTY, THIS BOARD WOULD NOT HEAR THAT. BECAUSE THE LIEN'S BEEN RECORDED. SO, AS SOON AS THE LIEN IS RECORDED TO THE CITY COMMISSION IS THE ONE THAT HAS THAT AUTHORITY. AND YOU HAVE SOME OPTIONS HERE IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT WE CHANGE THE ORDINANCE OR WE JUST CHANGE THE POLICY OF HOW WE DO IT. THE

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ORDINANCE SAYS THEY'LL GENERALLY BE RECORDED WITHIN 30 DAYS. >> CHAIRMAN: AND I'VE WRESTLED WITH IT AND IT'S CONFUSING. IT WAS CONFUSING TO US. BECAUSE TAMMY AND I HAVE EXCHANGED EMAILS AND MICHELLE EXCHANGED EMAILS AND GONE AROUND AND AROUND. MAYBE TODAY'S CASE IS THE POSTER CHILD FOR THIS. I SUGGESTED THIS. THE ORDINANCE, THE QUESTION REALLY WHEN YOU READ ALL OF THIS AND IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE, IS WHEN YOU FILE THE ORDER. SO, ANY EVENT, WITH THIS ORDINANCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, HOWEVER WE DECIDE TO PROCEED WE HAVE TO AMEND OUR LETTERS TO VIOLATORS AND AMEND THE APPEALS PROCESS AND PUT THEM ON NOTICE. THE APPEALS PROCESS TO THE CITY COMMISSION, AT LEAST ON PAPER APPEARS RELATIVELY ONEROUS. SO THE QUESTION BECOMES THIS. IF WE TAKE MY EXAMPLE OR MR. BROWN'S EXAMPLE. , AND WE AMEND ALL THAT AND SAY THIS. YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE, AND WE DIRECT THE FILING OF AN ORDER ON A DATE CERTAIN. NOT AFTER TODAY'S MEETING BUT ON A DATE CERTAIN. SO, IF IT WAS 30 DAYS FOR GRASS, RIGHT, WE FIND YOU ARE NOT IN COMP COMPLIANCE, WE WILL FILE AN ORDER ON DAY 30. RIGHT, DOWN THE ROAD. WHAT THAT DOES IS IT EXTENDS THE PERIOD AT LEAST TO ONE MEETING FOR THIS BOARD TO REVIEW THAT CASE. IF YOU FILE AN ORDER TOMORROW ON THIS, IF YOU FILE AN ORDER TODAY AND OUR NEXT MEETING IS 30-PLUS DAYS FROM THAT DAY, THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO UNDER THE WAY THE ORDINANCE READS. IT'S OUT OF OUR HANDS. IF THE ORDER IS FILED 30 DAYS FROM NOW, AT LEAST THERE'S A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE SOMEBODY CAN COME BACK. SO, IN THE EXAMPLE THAT I TRIED HERE WHICH IS NOT TOO DISSIMILAR. RIGHT? SOMETHING COMES IN CUTTING THE GRASS, FENCES, WHATEVER, WE FIND THEM IN NONCOMPLIANCE AND WE SAY THE FINE BEGINS ON DECEMBER 19TH. IF WE FILE THE ORDER ON DECEMBER 3RD OR WHATEVER DATE IT WAS, DECEMBER 5TH, WE WOULD HAVE NO OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT. IF YOU FILE THE ORDER ON DECEMBER 19TH, WHEN THE PENALTIES BEGIN, THEN THE 30DAY PERIOD RUNS FROM THAT DATE WHICH TAKES US PAST ONE MEETING. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE STATUTE REALLY TALKS ABOUT, WHEN THE ORDER IS FILED. WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO DO THIS, PLAY WITH SOME LANGUAGE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO ON THIS. YOU CAN DIRECT THE CHAIR TO SIGN THE ORDER. LET'S SAY WE FOUND MRS. BROWN AND HER LOVELY DAUGHTER OUT OF COMPLIANCE TODAY. THE ORDER THAT WE VOTE ON CAN SAY, AND WE DIRECT THE CHAIR TO HAVE THE ORDER FILED ON DECEMBER 19TH AFFECTING DISPOSITION. THAT WOULD GIVE US FROM DECEMBER 19TH THROUGH THE NEXT MEETING TO REVIEW THE CASE. IF YOU SIMPLY SIGN THE ORDER TODAY, IT'S ALL DONE. AND THIS IS -- LOOK, PART OF THIS INFORMATION WAS DRIVEN BY THAT. I'M NOT SURE THEY WERE REALLY THINKING ABOUT THE DAY-TO-DAY SMALL PEOPLE CASES THAT WE GET. YOU KNOW, THE $500, $600. OR THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAD UP IN OLD TOWN TRYING TO SELL THE HOUSE AND DO SOMETHING AND THEN IT WAS RECONFIGURED AND THEY CAME BACK AND IF WE HAD FOUND THEM IN NONCOMPLIANCE THAT DAY IT'S 30 DAYS FROM THERE WE WOULD NEVER HAVE SEEN THOSE FOLKS AGAIN THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH THE CITY COMMISSION. IT'S NOT THE BIG CASES AND THOSE MORE PUBLIC, IT'S THE LITTLE FOLKS OUT THERE WHO ARE GOING TO NEED COME INTO COMPLIANCE OR NOT. WE HAVE TO REVISE OUR PROCEDURES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. A SIMPLE

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WAY, WITHOUT AMENDING THE STATUTE, BECAUSE THE STATUTE TALKS ABOUT THE FILING THE ORDER, IT'S WHEN DO YOU FILE THE ORDER AND IT'S REALLY RELATIVELY AN ADMINISTRATIVE TASK. IT SAYS WE WILL BE FILING AN ORDER ON DECEMBER 19TH AFFECTING THIS PENALTY. YOU HAVE FROM DECEMBER 19TH FOR ANOTHER 30 DAYS BEFORE IT GOES THE COMMISSION. NOW IF THEY DON'T COME INTO COMPLIANCE, IT IS A ONE-SHOT DEAL BASICALLY. ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU

DO, IN THIS CASE. >> BOARD MEMBER: WHEN YOU SAY ORDER ARE YOU SAYING ORDER FINES

TO START OR FILE A LIEN? >> BOARD MEMBER: WELL IT IS THE SAME THING. YOU HAVE TO FILE THE LIEN ON -- THE FILING OF THE LIEN STARTS FROM THE 30 DAYS FROM THE ORDER.

>> BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. FINE CAN BE ACCRUING ON A PROPERTY. THEY JUST WILL NOT STAND AS LIEN UNTIL IT'S RECORDED. FILED AND RECORDED ARE SYNONYMOUS.

>> BOARD MEMBER: WHAT THE ORDINANCE ENVISIONS ONE OF TWO CASES. IT SAYS THE CITY RECORDS CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD ORDERS IMPOSING FINES AND ADMINISTRATIVE FEES. THE QUESTION IS, WHEN DO YOU FILE THAT. AND WHAT STARTS THE CLOCK. IF YOU START THE CLOCK

TODAY, WE'RE DONE. IF YOU START THE CLOCK ON THE DAY -- >> BOARD MEMBER: THE CLOCK FOR

WHAT? DEFINES OR THE LIEN? >> BOARD MEMBER: FOR THE 30 DAYS.

>> MAY I JUST FOR A MINUTE. LET ME TRY TO -- SO WHAT ADAM IS TRYING TO AVOID HERE, AND I UNDERSTAND IT. AND WHAT HE IS SAYING IS THAT REGARDLESS -- THE ORDINANCE THAT HAS PASSED WITH THE CITY COMMISSION, LET'S NOT FOOL WITH THAT. IT TALKS ABOUT THE LIENS WILL BE RECORDED AND ONCE THEY'RE RECORDED WHAT'S THE PROCESS FOR RELEASING OR SATISFYING THEM WHICH CAN ONLY BE DONE BY THE COMMISSION. WHAT ADAM IS TALKING ABOUT OR SUGGESTING THAT YOU ALL THINK ABOUT IS WHAT HAPPENS UNTIL THAT LIEN IS RECORDED. AND THERE'S NOTHING IN THE LAW UNDER STATE LAW OR CITY LAW THAT SAYS THAT THIS BOARD CAN'T SAY -- IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF AN EXTRA WORDING TO YOUR MOTIONS IS THAT YOU MAKE A MOTION THAT SAYS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN MR. BROWN'S CASE, HE IS GOING TO GET 90 DAYS TO TRY TO GET THAT STRUCTURE HANDLED OR PAINTED.

>> BOARD MEMBER: FROM TODAY. >> RIGHT. FROM TODAY. FEBRUARY 5TH. UNDER THE ORDINANCE, IF WE DO AND SAY NOTHING, MICHELLE'S UNDERSTANDING AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS ORDER, THE TWO MOTIONS THAT WERE PASSED TONIGHT IS GOING TO GET RECORDED BEFORE YOUR NEXT MEETING OR ABOUT THE TIME OF YOUR NEXT MEETING. WITHIN 30 DAYS. ONCE IT'S RECORDED, NOW IT'S OUT OF YOUR HANDS. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO HEAR ABOUT

MR. BROWN'S HOUSE AGAIN >> BOARD MEMBER: IT'S ON THIS THE COMMISSION.

>> RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: SO WHAT I AM SUGGESTING --

>> BOARD MEMBER: BUT IF YOU FILE A LIEN FOR $100 AND THE FINES ARE STILL ACCRUING YOU ONLY HAVE

A LIEN FOR $100 >> THAT'S NOT TRUE. NOT FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT. WE DON'T PUT

A NUMBER IN THERE FOR THE DAILY FINE AMOUNT. >> BOARD MEMBER: HOWEVER LONG IT

TAKES TO BRING INTO COMPLIANCE THAT GETS ADDED. >> WHEN I GET A CLOSING AGENT THAT CALLS THE CITY OR CODE ENFORCEMENT, THEY'RE JUST SEEING A DOCUMENT THAT SAYS IT'S RECORDED $250 A DAY OR $50 A DAY, HOLY COW HOW MUCH IS THIS THING?

>> BOARD MEMBER: AND THE DATE IT IS RECORDED >> THEY NEVER KNOW SO THEY HAVE

CODE ENFORCEMENT GIVES A NUMBER AS OF THE DATE OF COMPLIANCE. >> BOARD MEMBER: THE PROBLEM IS, FILING IT IN 30 DAYS AND OUR MEETINGS BEING EVERY 30 DAYS RIGHT

>> YES. >> BOARD MEMBER: LET ME SAY ANOTHER THING. SO I CAN'T THINK -- ON THAT'S CLEAR ON 90 DAYS. IT IS A LITTLE EASIER TO LOOK AT. IF WE HAVE A 30 DAY ORDER, WHICH WE DO A LOT, OR LESS THAN 30 DAYS, 10 DAYS, IT DOESN'T MATTER, 2, 3 DAYS, IF WE HAD THAT EXTRA 30 DAYS BEFORE THE ORDER, SO IT BECOMES 60 DAYS?

>> BOARD MEMBER: WHAT ABOUT 45 DAYS. THAT IS A STANDARD. >> BOARD MEMBER: TAKE A LITTLE

EXAMPLE THAT I TRIED -- >> BOARD MEMBER: I DID. >> LET ME DO THIS. ANOTHER KIND OF CASE. YOU'VE DONE THIS A BUNCH. YOU GIVE 10 DAYS. GET RID OF THE JUNK CAR. YOU GOT 10 DAYS TO GET IT TOWED. PERIOD. END OF STORY. IF YOU ALL LIKE THIS IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO HAVE THESE LITTLE CASES COME BACK TO YOU, MAYBE NOT FOR REDUCTION OF FINES BECAUSE I'M SELLING IT AT $75,000 IN FINES, LET THE COMMISSION DEAL WITH THAT. I THINK YOU ALL AGREE. BUT SOME

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OF THIS LITTLE STUFF. I THINK WHAT ADAM IS SAYING IS THAT THIS LITTLE GUY IN FRONT OF THE CITY COMMISSION? I MEAN, REALLY? YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS DEAL WITH IT MUCH BETTER. AND ADAM IS JUST THINKING OF THE WHAT-IFS. ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS YOU ALL CAN MAKE AS PART OF YOUR MOTION THE ONE WHERE YOU ASSESS FINES, YOU CAN SAY KNOWING THAT MICHELLE'S GOING TO RECORD THESE ABOUT THE TIME OF YOUR NEXT MEETING OR THE DAY BEFORE, ABOUT 30 DAYS. YOU CAN SAY, AND WE AS PART OF YOUR MOTION, THE FINES WILL BE $50 A DAY AND I MOVE THAT THE ORDER OR LIEN BE RECORDED 45 DAYS FROM

NOW. >> BOARD MEMBER: SO, IN THIS CASE,, AND I STILL NEED TO THINK THROUGH THE COMING BACK TO US AND REDUCING FINES VERSUS ASKING FOR MORE TIME. I AM NOT AGREEING TO ANYTHING BUT THAT PART'S GOT ME CONFUSED. BUT, IN THIS CASE, I WOULD HAVE SAID ON 42-116, THE YARD, WHATEVER WE CALL THAT, MRAINT MAINTENANCE OF PROPERTY OR WHATEVER THAT IS, YOU WOULD HAVE 30 DAYS TO BRING THE PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE OR A FINE OF $50 A DAY WILL BE

IMPOSED. AND THE ORDER-- >> SHOULD BE RECORDED ON THE 35TH DAY

>> BOARD MEMBER: DIRECTING THAT THE ORDER, WHATEVER >> YEAH.

>> BOARD MEMBER: LET ME FINISH. LET ME GET AN ANSWER. SHOULD BE RECORDED IN 45 DAYS OR 60 DAYS

OR WHATEVER WE THINK IS FAIR? >> RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: THEN LET'S JUST STICK TO THE TIME. HE GETS TO DAY 29 AND HE HAS ALL THE DITCHES OR SOMETHING DONE AND HE COMES BACK AND HE SAYS, MY SON'S COMING IN NEXT WEEK AND I NEED 7 MORE DAYS. SO, IT'S GOING TO BE 37 DAYS. BECAUSE HE'S NOT THINKING ABOUT THE VIOLATION -- I MEAN, THE FINE RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, HE MIGHT BE THINKING HE CAN'T PAY IT BUT HE IS THINKING ABOUT BRINGING IT INTO COMPLIANCE. WE HAVE OUR NEXT MEETING IN 30 DAYS AND HE COMES BACK AND SAYS I NEED 7 MORE DAYS. HOW DOES THAT AFFECT ANYTHING? IT'S STILL WITHIN 45. IT'S BEYOND THE 30.

>> BOARD MEMBER: YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: SAY THAT AGAIN

THE RECORD. >> BOARD MEMBER: BUT IF WE GO BACK TO LAST MEETING.

>> BOARD MEMBER: I WASN'T HERE. >> BOARD MEMBER: OKAY. IF WE DO THIS ONE. IF WE JUST DID IT THE WAY WE USED TO DO IT BACK IN THE DAY, WE'D SIGN THIS TOMORROW OR THE NEXT DAY. THE TIME CLOCK WOULD RUN FROM THAT DATE TO MAKE IT 30 DAYS. AND IF HE CAME BACK ON DAY 32 WE COULDN'T HEAR THAT CASE. IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN EXPLORING THIS, BECAUSE THERE ARE A COUPLE OF LITTLE THINGS -- I MEAN, THERE'S OTHER LITTLE THINGS THAT WE THINK WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF. LIKE THE VAGUE ARIES OF THE -- VAGUERIES OF THE CALENDAR. YOU DON'T WANT SOME PEOPLE TO COME IN BECAUSE IT'S FEBRUARY 28TH GET AN EXTRA HEARING. ALL THESE LITTLE THINGS THERE OUGHT TO BE PROCEDURE RULE. BUT IF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING FOR TAMMI AND I TO GET TOGETHER AND TRY TO DRAFT SOMETHING FOR YOU AS A RECOMMENDATION

>> I THINK THAT MAKES IT MORE COMPLICATED, ADAM. A PROCEDURAL TECHNICAL THING.

>> BOARD MEMBER: THIS IS THE PART I AM TRYING TO PROTECT ONE THING. BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE DOES SAY GENERALLY WITHIN 30 DAYS. AND SO THE WAY WE CRAFT THE LANGUAGE ABOUT THAT. IT CAN'T BE -- I DON'T KNOW THAT SAYING 45 DAYS IS THE RIGHT WAY OF SAYING IT.

>> BOARD MEMBER: WHERE DOES IT SAY THE 30 DAYS? >> DO YOU HAVE THE ORDINANCE IN

FRONT OF YOU? >> BOARD MEMBER: I DO. I HAVE THE ORDINANCE.

>> OKAY. >> BOARD MEMBER: HOW HAVE WE DIRECTED TO FILE LIENS IN THE

PAST? HOW IS THAT DONE >> THIS ISN'T DIRECTING -- AND I WROTE THIS VERY CAREFULLY. YES I USED A TEMPLATE FROM ANOTHER CITY. IF YOU READ IT, CINDY, WITH YOUR LAWYER MIND ALSO, THE CITY RECORDS CERTIFIED COPIES. IT'S JUST SAYING THE CITY DOES THIS GENERALLY WITHIN 30 DAYS,

RIGHT. IT'S NOT SAYING, SHALL, WILL. >> BOARD MEMBER: RIGHT.

BUT WHAT IF YOU DO IT IN 10 DAYS? >> WE CAN.

>> BOARD MEMBER: SO AM I CONTROLLING THIS 30 DAYS IN MY MOTION TONIGHT?

>> YEAH. >> BOARD MEMBER: OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT AND THEN ADAM'S

STATEMENT JUST CONFUSED ME. LIKE IT'S STILL GOING TO BE -- >> BOARD MEMBER: THIS ORDINANCE DIDN'T CYST EX-- EXIST AND IT W TWO MONTHS AGO, WE IN AFFECT CONTROL IT --

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>> BOARD MEMBER: BUT I DON'T SEE WHAT TAMMI SUGGESTING US ADDING THAT LANGUAGE WHY THAT CAN'T

CORRECT IT. >> IT DOES. CASE BY CASE. >> BOARD MEMBER: I THOUGHT YOU

WERE SAYING IT DIDN'T CATCH EVERYTHING. >> AND IF IT'S FORGOTTEN, LET'S SAY, I'M NOT GOING TO FORGET IT WHILE I'M UP HERE. BUT IF I HAVE SOMEBODY IN MY SEAT, IT'S FORGOTTEN, EVERYBODY'S JUST FORGOTTEN ABOUT IT FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEN MICHELLE KNOWS -- I MEAN, IT WILL GENERALLY BE RECORDED WITHIN 30 DAYS. AND IT LOOKS LIKE NICOLE HAS A QUESTION

>> SO THE RECORDING OF THE ORDER IN THE LIEN MEANS EFFECTIVELY THE DATE THAT IT IS REPORTED IT

IS NO LONGER COMING TO US. IT GOES-- >> CORRECT.

>> BOARD MEMBER: SO IN TERMS OF OUR TIMING, ARE WE LOOKING TO BE ONE CYCLE IN. IN WHICH CASE

MAYBE 45 DAYS ISN'T. >> BOARD MEMBER: I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT WOULD GIVE EVERYBODY -- BUT, IN THIS CASE, IF THE GUY COMES BACK IN, LIKE I SAID, AND SAYS, I NEED

TWO MORE DAYS, I NEED 32 DAYS TO GET THE YARD DONE. >> BOARD MEMBER: THE LISA AVENUE CASE CAME BEFORE US FOUR TIMES AND CAME INTO COMPLIANCE. I THINK OUR GOAL IS COMPLIANCE AND SOME PEOPLE WILL NEED MORE TIME. ARE WE ABLE TO AMEND THEN IF IT IS RAISED ON A FUTURE AGENDA

THAT IT HASN'T GOTTEN RECORDED >> SURE WHY NOT. I THINK YOU ARE.

>> BOARD MEMBER: AS LONG AS IT COMES BACK WITHIN THE 30 DAYS. >> BOARD MEMBER: IF A RESPONDENT KNOWS THAT A LIEN WILL BE FILED IN 30 DAYS THAT IS EVEN MORE MOTIVATION.

>> BOARD MEMBER: I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. BUT I ALSO THINK ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME BACK AND SAID CAN WE GET A REDUCTION. THAT'S WHY I SAID I AM NOT AGREEING THERE IS MORE. BECAUSE NOBODY COMES BACK TO US UNTIL IT'S WAY BEYOND. NUMBER ONE.

SO THAT'S ONE SCENARIO THAT I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT.

>> NOT AT ALL. >> BOARD MEMBER: BUT WHAT WE ARE USED TO IS MICHELLE AND GEORGE COMING BACK AND SAYING HEY THEY'RE REALLY MAKING PROGRESS, THEY'RE ALMOST THERE. I WISH YOU WOULD GIVE THEM ADDITIONAL 30 DAYS. THE WAY IT IS NOW, IF 31 DAYS PAVE PASTED, CAN WE DO

THAT? >> YES. AND JUST LIKE IN THE PAST, YOU CAN ALWAYS --

>> BOARD MEMBER: WAIT. HOW CAN WE DO THAT IF WE DON'T SAY THAT IN OUR ORDER?

>> BECAUSE IT SAYS THE CITY GENERALLY RECORDS THESE THINGS. >> BOARD MEMBER: BUT WHAT IF YOU

GUYS ARE JOHNNY ON THE SPOT AND HAVE IT DONE IN 28 DAYS. >> BOARD MEMBER: IT IS THE

DIRECTION THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE >> YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT PART OF

THE MOTION. >> BOARD MEMBER: IN THIS CASE, IF WE DON'T DO THAT SCENARIO COMES WHERE WE SAY HEY GUYS THEY'RE WORKING HARD AND I'D LIKE TO GIVE THEM ANOTHER TWO

WEEKS. >> HOW ABOUT THIS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT PART OF YOUR MOTION. WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE OTHER CASES. I THINK WE'RE RECORDED UP TO DATE ARE WE OR NOT? WITH CASES. AND ORDERS. WE HAVE A LIST. SO, LET'S SAY

MR. BROWN-- >> WE HAD A CHANGE OF STAFF AND CHANGE OF PROCEDURES

>> OKAY. LET'S SAY MR. BROWN'S CASE. I DON'T CARE IF YOU MAKE A MOTION OR NOT, AND IT'S ON THE RECORD. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PART OF THE ORDER OR PART OF THE MOTION. WHEN DOES YOU WANT HER

TO RECORD THAT LIEN? 95 DAYS FROM NOW? 120 DAYS. >> BOARD MEMBER: IT'S ONE ORDER.

>> I WOULD SAY 95 DAYS. >> BOARD MEMBER: BUT THEN WE WOULDN'T SEE IT UNLESS IT CAME WITHIN THE 90 DAYS -- HE WOULD NEED TO COME IN BEFORE HIS TIME HAS RUN OUT TO INFORM US SO IT DOESN'T. OTHERWISE WE PUT IT AT 120 DAYS WHICH GIVES US ONE REPORT OUT IN THE FOLLOWING

MEETING. THAT'S HOW I UNDERSTAND IT >> YOU ARE RIGHT.

>> BOARD MEMBER: FEBRUARY 5TH IS TWO DAYS BEFORE WEARY MEETING. >> THE 90 DAYS EXPIRES TWO DAYS BEFORE. THE OTHER THING WE DO HERE, SOMETIMES MICHELLE AND STAFF DO IT THEMSELVES WHERE THEY FEEL LIKE YOU NEED AN UPDATE ON A CASE. AND SOMETIMES YOU ALL HAVEN'T INQUIRED. THEN THE NEXT MEET WOOING EH DO UPDATES. WE CAN DO UPDATES WITHOUT ORDERS. IT SEEMS TO

ME -- >> BOARD MEMBER: A LITTLE BIT OF LA LAWY LAWYERING THAT I -- IT'S NICE TO DO EVERYTHING ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. BUT THERE OUGHT TO BE SOME STANDARD AGAINST WE OPERATE AS A GENERAL RULE. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS GUY IS 92. AND SAME THING WITH THOSE FEBRUARY THINGS. FEBRUARY IS A

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28 DAY MONTH WE'LL GET THEM BACK. I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE REALLY YOU REALLY WANT TO OPERATE. IF WE'RE SAYING AND I REALLY SUGGEST WE HAVE TO REWRITE THESE LETTERS ANYMORE.

BECAUSE IN THEY'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WE HAVE TO NOTIFY THEM ABOUT THE PROCEDURES TO APPEAL BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION. SO, IF WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT WE CAN CRAFT A LETTER, SOMEBODY CAN CRAFT OUR ORDER THAT HAS A DATE TO MAKE THE ORDER FILE, RIGHT. SO WE CAN MAKE THAT DECISION. $50 A DAY. THE ORDER IS FILED ON -- PICK A DATE RIGHT. 30 DAYS FROM NOW, 45 DAYS FROM NOW ON EACH CASE. AND THEN YOU KNOW WHEN THE 30 DAY PERIOD BEGINS TO RUN.

REMEMBER IF YOU SAY THE ORDER IS GOING TO BE FILED ON DAY 45, THAT ESSENTIALLY GIVES THAT

PERSON 75 DAYS TO COME BACK TO THIS BOARD. >> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SOME

CRITERIA THAT CAN BE FOLLOWED. >> BOARD MEMBER: WHAT HAVE WE BEEN DOING IN THE PAST?

>> FOR TAYLOR RENTAL THERE WAS NOTHING RECORDED UNTIL, I DON'T KNOW, 30 DAYS BEFORE OR 60.

>> BOARD MEMBER: SO IT STILL RAN AND JUST A LARGER AMOUNT-- >> JUST WASN'T A LIEN. WHEN WE

DISCOVERED IT I'M LIKE GET A LIEN AND GET IT CERTIFIED. >> BOARD MEMBER: DOES THE CITY WANT TO TAKE THAT RESPONSIBILITY ON? WE GET HOW MANY CASES HAVE WE HAD THIS YEAR? 100 CASES THIS YEAR. HAVE WE SEEN THAT MANY? AND YOU ARE GOING TO FILE 100 LIENS? BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FILING

AND THEN HAVING THEM-- >> WE DO THIS. WE DON'T GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE ANYMORE. IT'S

ALL E RECORDING. >> BOARD MEMBER: ONCE YOU RECORD A LIEN AND 10DIES LATER IT COMES

INTO COMPLIANCE AND YOU GOT TO TURN AROUND AND FILE-- >> THAT'S THE BEST CASE.

>> THE CITY COMMISSION -- >> BOARD MEMBER: BUT UNDER THE ORDI ORDINANCE, I HATE TO DO THIS TO YOU GUYS, IF IT COMES INTO COMPLIANCE AFTER THE LIEN IS FILED, IT HAS TO GO TO THE CITY MANAGER. EVEN IF IT'S IN COMPLIANCE.

>> AND THEY PAY THE FINES. IF THEY PAY THE FINES -- >> BOARD MEMBER: THIS PROCESS DOESN'T KICK IN UNLESS THEY'RE ASKING TO REDUCE THE FINES RIGHT? IF THEY BRING IT INTO COMPLIANCE, THEY PAY THE FINES, THEY PAY WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, THEN THE CITY -- THEY DON'T HAVE TO ASK THE CITY MANAGER TO GET RID OF THE LIEN. ONCE THEY BRING INTO IT

COMPLIANCE AND PAY EVERYTHING >> THEY DO. >> BOARD MEMBER: THEY HAVE TO GO

TO THE CITY MANAGER TO GET SATISFACTION OF THE LIEN. >> ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS WHEN THE ORDER IS REPORTED, THAT'S IT. ORDER IS RECORDED. AND WHEN DO YOU GUYS WANT TO SEE THAT RECORDED? BECAUSE AFTER IT'S RECORDED YOU NEVER HEAR OR SEE ABOUT IT AGAIN.

>> BOARD MEMBER: IT'S WHEN DO YOU FILE THE ORDER. >> BOARD MEMBER: WHO WROTE 30

DAYS HERE? >> BOARD MEMBER: ME. YEAH. >> BOARD MEMBER: WELL NO THAT CASE THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. IF YOU SAY IT'S GOING BE FILED IN 30 DAYS THEN THEY CAN NEVER

COME BACK HERE. >> BOARD MEMBER: WHY DOES IT NEED TO COME BACK HERE?

>> BOARD MEMBER: THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION AND I'VE EH BEEN WRESTLING WITH IT BUT I THINK THIS WAS THE POSTER CHILD FOR IT. BECAUSE I COULD SAY, AND I WOULD ALMOST AGREE WITH YOU,

CITY COMMISSION WANTED THIS, LET THEM HAVE IT. GOD BLESS THEM. >> BOARD MEMBER: I AGREE. BUT

THERE ARE A FEW EXCEPTIONS LIKE THIS TONIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: IF YOU DON'T SEND IT IN WRITING YOU CAN'T SAY THIS GUY HAS TO DO IT AND THIS GUY DOESN'T.

>> BOARD MEMBER: BUDDY, STAY WITH ME. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU.

>> BOARD MEMBER: WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

>> BOARD MEMBER: IT'S REALLY MESSY. IF YOU HAVE A STANDARD, I MEAN, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO GO IT'S 45 DAYS FOR CHARLIE AND 72 DAYS FOR SOMEBODY ELSE. IT'S DONE. BUT IF THERE IS AN ORDER FOR ALL OF THESE CASES AND YOU WANT TO MAKE IT, YOU CAN DIRECT WHEN THE LIEN IS GOING TO BE FILED. AND ALL I WAS SUGGESTING IN THIS THING S 30 DAYS DIRECT STARTS WITH THE LIEN IS FILED. THAT'S THE TRIGGER. AND SO IF YOU TAKE THIS GUY AND YOU SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO FILE THE LIEN UNTIL DAY 32, HE STILL CAN COME BACK TO US

BUT ONLY FOR 30 DAYS. >> BOARD MEMBER: NOW WE'VE HEARD THAT. RIGHT NOW, JUST LIKE WE SAID A FEW MINUTES AGO. IT'S 30 DAYS. AND WE'RE SAYING THIS IS A POSTER CASE. NAME SOME OTHER

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POSTER CASES THAT WE'VE HAD THIS YEAR. NOT THAT MANY. SO, WE'RE NOT GIVING UP THE RIGHT TO SAY, MR. BROWN, OR ANOTHER CASE LIKE MR. BROWN COMES UP SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, WE'RE NOT GIVING UP THE RIGHT TO SAY I MAKE A MOTION. WE FIND HIM IN VIOLATION. AND HE'S GOT 30 DAYS TO COME IN TO COMPLIANCE. IF NOT, THE FINES START ON THAT 30 DAYS. AND I WANT THIS TO BE

FILED 45 DAYS FROM NOW. >> BOARD MEMBER: NOW WE DON'T SAY ANYTHING BUT IN THE RARE

EXCEPTION WE CAN. >> RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: AND I KNOW I

DO. >> BOARD MEMBER: THEN YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HELP THOSE

OF US WHO MAKE MOTIONS TO REMEMBER. >> BOARD MEMBER: I CAN PRETTY MUCH TELL YOU WHO IS GOING TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE AND WHO IS NOT. I'VE BEEN DOING THIS LONG ENOUGH. AND THOSE WHO DON'T SHOW UP HERE, THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO.

I WOULD SAY JUST CONTINUE ON. >> AND STAFF CAN EVEN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO YOU. AND I AGREE WITH ADAM AND OTHERS ON THE BOARD THAT THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME OBJECTIVE CRITERIA FOR DOING THIS. THAT'S TRUE. SOME. BUT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH, AT LEAST IN FLORIDA, THESE ARE QUASI JUDICIAL -- AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT BEING ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS WITH A CASE OR WITH A PROPERTY OWNER, YOU ARE FINE. ME SAYING, MR. BROWN, ELDERLY, SOME SEEMINGLY FEEBLE OR WHATEVER, COULD BE IN FRONT OF THE CITY COMMISSION, CAN YOU TAKE THAT CONSIDERATION? YOU CAN. I MEAN, EVERYBODY DOESN'T HAVE MAKES YOU A GREAT BOARD. THAT YOU CONSIDER EVERYTHING FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE. THERE'S NOT A BLANKET CASE. IT DOESN'T EXIST. THESE ARE PEOPLE WITH REAL SITUATIONS AND CIRCUMSTANCES AND YOU GUYS ALWAYS HAVE TAKEN THAT IN TO CONSIDERATION. I DON'T THINK THAT WHEN THERE ARE THAT LITTLE BIT ABOVE AND BEYOND -- IF WE SAY 30 DAYS AND IT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE, $50 A DAY STARTS TO ACCUMULATE, THEN DON'T RECORD IT FOR 45 DAYS, THEN IT STILL STARTS AT 30 DAYS. IT JUST MEANS WHEN IT GETS FILED INSTEAD OF BEING $100 BECAUSE IT'S BEEN OUT OF COMPLIANCE FOR TWO DAYS, IT'S GOING TO BE WHATEVER.

BECAUSE I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT THE INCENTIVE. >> BOARD MEMBER: THE REASON YOU FILE A LIEN IS TO PROTECT YOUR INTEREST. SO, WHY COULDN'T YOU JUST SAY THE LIEN IS FILED THE

DAY THE FINES START >> BECAUSE THEN THEY CAN NEVER COME BACK TO THE BOARD. IF

THERE IS AN EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCE. >> BOARD MEMBER: THEY DON'T NEED

TO COME BACK TO US TO SAY THEY DID OR DIDN'T PAY THE FINE. >> JUST LOOKING AT THIS, AND I THINK THERE MAY BE A WAY TO STANDARDIZE THIS IN A WAY THAT ADDRESSES INDIVIDUAL CASES.

WHAT IS THE PRACTICALITY AND THE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE CITY EMPLOYEES FOR US TO GET A REPORT OUT FOR THE CASES THAT COME TO US? BECAUSE WE HAVE DIFFERING DATES IN WHICH FINES BECOME ASSESSED. SO, MAYBE IT'S 10 DAYS. MAYBE IT'S 30 DAYS FOR THE YARD AND 90 DAYS FOR THE STRUCTURE. IN TERMS OF INCORPORATING A REPORT OUT INTO OUR BOARD MEETINGS FOR CASES THAT WE HAVE RULED ON THAT WOULD FALL WITHIN THIS ORDINANCE. IN COMPLIANCE, NON-IN COMPLIANCE WHICH THEN GIVES US THE OPTION TO MAYBE IN THE CASE SOMEONE WASN'T ABLE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE BUT THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH CHIP AND MICHELLE AND THEY NEED 30 EXTRA DAYS. IN WHICH CASE IF WE HAVE SAID THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT A RECORDING IN THE MEETING FOLLOWING THE IMPOSING OF FINES, WE CAN STILL ADJUST WHEN THAT GETS RECORDED TO GIVE THEM LENIENCY. THAT'S NOT HAVING THE CASE COME BACK BEFORE US NECESSARILY. MAYBE IT IS. BUT IT SEEMS TO ME --

>> BOARD MEMBER: THEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE DECIDING WHICH CASE YOU FILE A LIEN ON AND WHICH YOU

DON'T. >> BOARD MEMBER: WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THE RECORDING THEN--

[01:05:01]

>> AND THAT'S ACTUALLY THE LAW. AND I THINK WHEN YOU FILE A LIEN, MY STUDY OF THE CASES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION IS THE WAY THAT THE STATUTE READS, IT SAYS THAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT -- NOT LOCAL GOVERNING BODY. THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD, I THINK IT SAYS, MAY FILE A LIEN. OR MAY FILE AN ORDER IMPOSING A FINE WHICH CONSTITUTES A LIEN. SO IT REALLY IS IN YOUR HANDS WHETHER THAT LIEN IS FILED. I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT STATE LAW SAYS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE WAS SOME LITIGATION AT SOME POINT WHERE SOME LAWYER SMART OR SMART ASS SAID THE LIEN RUNS IN FAVOR OF THE GOVERNING BODY. JUST LIKE YOU CAN'T SEE THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT YOU HAVE TO SUE THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, SAID THE CODE BOARD CAN'T BE REDUCING LIENS, THEY'RE NOT EVEN A LEGAL ENTITY. THEY'RE JUST A BOARD APPOINTED BY, YOU KNOW, THE CITY COMMISSION. AND THAT IS HOW THE LAW ENDED UP CHANGING SO THAT ONLY THE LOCAL GOVERNING BODY, THE COMMISSION CAN RELEASE A LIEN OR SATISFY IT. EVEN IF IT'S PAID IN FULL. NOW IN OUR ORDINANCE THEY DELEGATED THAT TO THE CITY MANAGER.

>> BOARD MEMBER: ACTUALLY 162 SAYS A CERTIFIED COPY OF THE ORDER IMPOSING A FINE OR FINE PLUS REPAIR COSTS MAY BE RECORDED IN PUBLIC RECORDS AND THERE AFTER CONSTITUTES A LIEN.

>> RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: SO THERE IS DISCRETION ON WHEN YOU RECORD

>> THAT'S RIGHT. >> BOARD MEMBER: I WOULD SAY RECORD THE LIEN THE DAY THE FINE

STARTS >> HOW ABOUT WE TAKE IT UP ON AT THE NEXT MEETING AND WE'LL PLAY IT BY EAR

WAY YOU ARE GOING TO BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY. >> UNLESS YOU TELL THE CODE ENFORCEMENT AND LEGAL DEPARTMENT DIFFERENT, THESE WILL BE RECORDED BY YOUR NEXT MEETING.

HOW THAT IS? >> BOARD MEMBER: IF WE GIVE A RESPONDENT 30 DAYS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE, ON THE 31ST DAY THE LIEN IS FILED AND THE FINES START.

>> OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. UNLESS YOU SAY DIFFERENTLY, THEY'RE GOING TO BE -- THESE

THINGS ARE GOING TO BE RECORDED ABOUT 30 DAYS LATER. >> BOARD MEMBER: THAT'S 30 DAYS.

>> YOU DON'T NEED TO UNLESS YOU WANT TO. IF YOU WANT IT RECORDED IN 10 DAYS IT WILL BE

RECORDED >> BOARD MEMBER: THAT'S JUST A BLANKET FOR EVERYTHING. IF THE

FINE STARTS IN 10 DAYS THE LIEN IS FILED. >> THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS. IT SAYS THEY'RE GENERALY RECORDED IN 30 DAYS AND I THINK YOU PUTTING PEOPLE ON NOTICE IN THE PUBLIC THEY'RE GENERALLY RECORDED IN 30 DAYS. THAT IS ALL. SO, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU

CAN -- >> BOARD MEMBER: YOU CAN'T MAKE IT PART OF THE ORDINANCE IF A

FINE IS IMPOSED A LIEN IS IMPOSE AT THE SAME TIME >> WE CAN.

>> BOARD MEMBER: BUT WE HAVE TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE >> MAY?

>> SURE >> THANKS. IT SAYS, AT LEAST ON THE FINDINGS OF FACT THAT IF IT'S NOT PAID WITHIN 30 DAYS IT GOES TO A LIEN. SO, THERE ARE PEOPLE, AND IT'S HAPPENED NUMEROUS TIMES, THAT THEY DO GET FINED WITHIN TWO WEEKS OR SO FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY'VE JUST FILED. WHO KNOWS. THEY COME INTO COMPLIANCE. AND THEN THEY COME IN AND GIVE US THE CHECK.

>> BOARD MEMBER: IF YOU WANT TO GET SOMEBODY'S ATTENTION, FILE A LIEN AND SEND THEM THERE'S A

LIEN AGAINST YOUR PROPERTY >> WE'RE MAKING THIS COMPLICATED. AND ASSUMPTIONS AND THINGS. LET'S EACH CASE, NOBODY SUGGEST AT THIS POINT AMENDING THE ORDINANCE, THAT'S WHAT I AM HEARING. SO THE ORDINANCE STAYS. LET'S JUST KEEP IT IN MIND WHAT WE COULD DO, WHAT I DO WITH OTHER BOARDS. I'LL TALK ABOUT IT WITH MICHELLE. WE'LL ALL WORK ON IT, THE FOUR OF US, FIVE OF US ACTUALLY, AND WE'LL COME UP WITH -- WHAT I DO FOR OTHER BOARDS IS IN THE STAFF REPORT, WHICH WE ALWAYS HAVE ONE HERE, I GIVE A RECOMMENDED MOTION. SO, WHEN YOU PULL UP YOUR STAFF REPORT, IT WILL SAY -- IT'S NOT GOING TO SAY RECOMMENDED MOTION, FIND THEM IN VIOLATION. BECAUSE THEY'RE TESTIFYING. IT WILL SAY, THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OR NOT IN VIOLATION. GIVING YOU A CHOICE. THEN WE CAN PUT THAT THE LIEN WILL BE RECORDED BY X DATE. THAT IT PROMPTS YOU ALL TO THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU WANT TO HAVE IT RECORDED. I THINK

THAT'S FAIR. >> JUST TO ANSWER WHAT YOU WANTED REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU USE IT. WE WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GIVE YOU A REPORT ON WHO IS STILL IN VIOLATION AND WHO HAS

COME INTO COMPLIANCE. IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE >> BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO AFFECT US NOW BECAUSE -- UNLESS FROM HERE FORWARD WE HAVE A MOTION THAT EXTENDS THE 30 DAYS BEYOND

[01:10:08]

THE 30 DAYS RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> YES.

>> BUT THAT'S SOMETHING YOU WANT >> ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO TURN THIS OVER EVEN TEMPORARILY?

>> SO DO YOU WANT A REPORT OR DO NOT WANT A REPORT? >> BOARD MEMBER: IF IT'S AFTER

THE LIEN HAS BEEN FILED, IT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM ANYMORE >> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> BOARD MEMBER: IT IS THE CITY COMMISSION'S PROBLEM >> WHAT I AM HEARING IS NO.

>> BOARD MEMBER: JUST DO WHAT YOU ALWAYS DO WHEN YOU NEED TO UPDATE US ON SOMETHING UPDATE

US. >> OKAY. IT'S GOING BE REALLY HARD IF ANYBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE MINUTES FROM THIS BY THE WAY BECAUSE THERE IS LIKE THREE PEOPLE TALKING AT ONCE. BUT NICOLE HAD A QUESTION.

>> MY QUESTION BEFORE THE REPORT OUT IS IS IT INFLUENCED A DATE FOR US TO REQUEST THAT YOU RECORDED WHICH LEFT A WINDOW IF SOMEONE CAME IN AND WAS WORKING WITH YOU AND ASKED FOR MORE TIME

BEFORE IT GETS RECORDED WE'RE ABLE TO AMEND. >> IF SOMEONE IS REALLY, REALLY TRYING AND THEY'RE WORKING TOWARD COMPLIANCE AND THEY NEED MORE TIME AFTER YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM TIME CERTAIN, WE'RE GOING TO KNOCK DOWN THE WORLD TO GET THEM BEFORE YOU AGAIN.

SERIOUSLY. >> BOARD MEMBER: IT HAS TO BE BEFORE THE LIEN IS RECORDED

>> ABSOLUTELY. AND A LOT OF TIMES WE'LL KNOW AHEAD OF TIME. AND WE'LL JUST PUT THAT OFF A LITTLE BIT SO THEY CAN COME BEFORE YOU. I MEAN, WE WANT THE SAME THING, WE WANT THEM TO

COMPLY >> BOARD MEMBER: WHEN YOU PUT THEM ON THE AGENDA DOES THAT

STOP THE -- OR IS IT ACTUALLY COMING BEFORE US >> IT IS JUST THEM RECORDING

THAT IS AN EFFECTIVE START DATE. >> I THINK I KNOW YOU ALL WELL ENOUGH THAT I KNOW YOU WOULD SAY

YES LET'S GIVE THEM EXTRA TIME. SO IT WOULD BE WORTH IT. >> WE CAN MAKE THIS SAUSAGE AND THEN WRITE THE RECIPE

>> LET'S GET OUT OF HERE RIGHT NOW. >> I AGREE

BE SHARED AT THE NEXT MEETING >> YES IT WILL BE IN THE STAFF REPORT AND I'LL HELP MICHELLE AMEND THE STAFF REPORT SO IT WILL BE A RECOMMENDED MOTION OR MOTIONS.

>> CHAIRMAN: DO I HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? >> BOARD MEMBER: YES

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.