[00:00:02]
>> BEACH. COULD YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE?
>> MEMBER [INAUDIBLE] SHELLER?
>> PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
>> WE'RE MISSING JUST ONE MEMBER AND WE HAVE OUR QUORUM.
SO UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS SOMETHING SOME CONCERN ABOUT THAT, WE'LL MOVE AHEAD.
I'D LIKE TO ASK ANY BOARD MEMBER TO DISCLOSE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. MEMBER [INAUDIBLE]
>> I SPOKE WITH MIA SADLER, CASE 202-52-3232 SEVENTH. THAT'S IT.
>> I REQUESTED SOME INFORMATION VIA E MAIL FROM MIA SADLER ON 2020 5-0022.
>> MR. SKOWSKI SENT ME SOME REALLY COOL PHOTOS THIS MORNING ON ONE OF HIS PROJECTS THAT I ASSUME IT'S ALMOST DONE OR IS DONE.
IT'S APPROACHING THAT I HOPEFULLY HE'LL SHARE WITH MIA AND MAYBE SHE CAN SHOW EVERYBODY HOW COOL IT LOOKS. THAT'S ALL.
I DID SPEAK TO MIA ABOUT THE ENTIRE AGENDA.
PLUS OTHER THINGS LIKE HER TRIP. AT ANY RATE.
HAVE YOU ALL HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING? ANY COMMENTS, REQUEST TO CHANGE? DO I HEAR A MOTION TO APPROVE?
>> PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
>> AYE. MISS PRINCE, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES TO THE FOLKS IN CHAMBERS?
>> CERTAINLY. WELCOME, EVERYONE THIS EVENING.
TONIGHT'S BUSINESS UNDER ITEMS 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, AND 5.4 ALL QUIS.
A QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDING IS NOT EXACTLY A COURT PROCEEDING, BUT IT DOES HAVE FORMALITIES OF ENTERING EVIDENCE.
IN ORDER TO DETERMINE THAT A CASE CAN BE APPROVED UNDER QUASI JUDICIAL STANDARDS? THERE MUST BE COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE PRESENTED FOR OR AGAINST? MERE OPINIONS ABOUT AN AGENDA ITEM DO NOT MEET THE LEVEL OF COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
ANY APPLICANT HERE THIS EVENING THAT WISHES, AFTER HEARING THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS TO BE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL IS ALLOWED TO ASK FOR A CONTINUANCE TO THE NEXT MEETING AND TO BE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL BECAUSE IT IS YOUR RIGHT IN A QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDING TO BE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL.
WOULD ANY APPLICANT AT THIS TIME LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND ASK FOR A CONTINUANCE? SEEING NONE, MADAM CHAIRPERSON, THE PROCESS WILL BE THAT WE WILL OPEN THE HEARING.
CITY STAFF WILL PRESENT THE CASE TO THE BOARD.
THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE 15 MINUTES OR AN ALLOTTED AMOUNT OF TIME TO PRESENT THEIR CASE TO THE BOARD.
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY.
AND AGAIN, THEY CAN PROVIDE OPINIONS, BUT THOSE OPINIONS ARE NOT CONSIDERED COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO APPROVE OR DENY A APPLICATION BEFORE THIS BOARD THIS EVENING.
THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ALREADY DISCLOSED ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, WHICH ARE COMMUNICATIONS THAT WERE OUTSIDE OF THE PRESENCE OF THIS OPEN MEETING AND THE APPLICANTS.
AND WITH THAT, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.
>> VERY GOOD. IF YOU ARE EXPECTED TO SPEAK TONIGHT ON ONE OF THE QUASI JUDICIAL CASES, PLEASE RISE SO THAT YOU CAN ADMINISTER THE OATH.
>> RISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES, I DO. ANYONE WHO IS GOING TO SPEAK AND HASN'T FILLED OUT ONE OF THE FORMS AT THE BACK DOOR.
PLEASE DO SO BEFORE YOU LEAVE THAT WAY, WE HAVE A RECORD OF YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
>> MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, MAY I INTERJECT ONE MINUTE? OUR RECORDING CLERK HAS POINTED OUT TO ME THAT I DID FORGET TO ADVISE ALL OF YOU THAT YOU HAVE 30 DAYS TO APPEAL ANY DECISION MADE BY THIS BOARD TO CIRCUIT COURT.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS ALSO YOUR RIGHT, AND YOU DO NEED TO BE SWORN, WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN SWORN.
YOU WILL BE SWORN FOR ANY TESTIMONY.
THANK YOU TO SYLVIE FOR POINTING THAT OUT AND REMINDING ME OF THAT,
[00:05:01]
AND YOU WILL HAVE A 30 DAY APPEAL PERIOD FROM THE TIME THE DECISION IS MADE.>> VERY GOOD. WE WILL START WITH OLD BUSINESS, BUT BEFORE I GO THERE BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ON THAT ITEM GIVES ME TIME TO SAY ONE THING.
WE HAVE A SECTION AT THE END OF OUR AGENDA FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR ANY ITEM OR ISSUE, NOT ON THE AGENDA.
THERE WILL BE A THREE MINUTE LIMIT ON THOSE COMMENTS ALONE, STARTING TONIGHT AND MOVING FORWARD.
WE'RE GOING TO A NEW BUSINESS, HDC 202-05-0022.
>> HI, GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE.
MY NAME IS MIA SADLER, PLANER ONE, AND HDC STAFF LIAISON.
HAPPY TO PRESENT FOUR CASES ON OUR NEW BUSINESS TONIGHT.
OUR FIRST ITEM IS FOR THE PROPERTY AT 15 SOUTH FOURTH STREET.
THIS IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF A THREE STORY COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE AT THE CORNER OF SOUTH FORTH AND CENTER STREET.
THE APPLICANT IS JOHN LASER REPRESENTED BY JOSE MIRANDA, MIRANDA ARCHITECT.
THIS PROJECT APPEARED BEFORE THE HTC IN FEBRUARY 2024 FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED HERE IS THE ADDITION OF A THIRD STORY, WHICH IS SET BEHIND THE PARAPETS AND AWAY FROM THE STREET FACING SIDE, SO IT WOULDN'T BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, AND THAT'S INTENDED FOR STORAGE AND MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT.
THIS SLIDE, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE, BUT I HAVE THE PARCEL LOCATION ON THE TOP, AND THEN ON THE BOTTOM LEFT IS THE CURRENT STREET VIEW IS A TEMPORARY STRUCTURE THAT HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE 70S, AND THEN ON THE RIGHT IS THE PROPOSED RENDERED STREET VIEW.
THIS STREET VIEW, YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR BACK FACING THE POST OFFICE AND LOOKING AT THE CORNER THERE.
THIS IS THE SITE PLAN, WHICH INCLUDES MULTIPLE ENTRANCES TO THE BUILDING, A FENCED IN UTILITY SPACE, AWNINGS, AND OTHER SITE FEATURES.
THIS IS COMPLIANT WITH OUR LDC, AS NO SETBACKS ARE REQUIRED, AND 100% LOT COVERAGE IS PERMISSIBLE IN THE SECTION 3 ZONING DISTRICT.
HERE I HAVE THE ELEVATIONS OF THE PROPOSED COMMERCIAL BUILDING.
ON THE TOP IS THE EAST ELEVATION AND THE SOUTH ELEVATION, AND ON THE BOTTOM IS THE NORTH ELEVATION THAT PUTS THE PROPOSED BUILDING IN CONTEXT WITH THE REST OF THAT BLOCK.
LIKE I SAID, THAT THIRD FLOOR IS SET BACK FROM THE NORTH AND THE EAST SIDES OF THE BUILDING.
IT WOULDN'T BE VISIBLE FROM STANDING ON THE STREET.
IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS APPLICATION IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, BUT I DID WANT TO POINT OUT SOME UNSPECIFIED ASPECTS OF THE APPLICATION THAT WOULD NEED TO BE RESOLVED FOR FINAL APPROVAL, INCLUDING THE STYLE OF THE FENCE, THE COLORS FOR THE EXTERIOR AND AWNINGS IN THE LANDSCAPING PLAN.
LANDSCAPING ISN'T TYPICALLY REVIEWED BY THE HDC, BUT MEETING THAT 10% REQUIREMENT MIGHT ALTER THE DESIGN POTENTIALLY, SO I WANTED TO BRING THAT UP EITHER FOR DISCUSSION OR CONSIDERATION BY THE APPLICANT.
EVEN WITH THESE OUTSTANDING ITEMS, STAFF FINDS THE APPLICATION COMPLIANT WITH THE CP PLAN, THE LDC, AND THE DESIGN GUIDELINES TO RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MISS SALVO? MR. MIRANDA?
>> JOSE MIRANDA, MIRANDA ARCHITECTS THREE OH 9.5 CENTER STREETS, WE TWO OH SIX.
YOU GUYS OR SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THIS DESIGN EARLY LAST YEAR WHEN IT WAS A TWO STORY CONFIGURATION.
WE HAVE REDESIGNED THE PARAPET AND ADDED THAT THIRD FLOOR, WHICH IS ONLY A PARTIAL THIRD FLOOR.
IT'S PUSHED OVER TO THE BACK AS MIA HAS DESCRIBED.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE JUST SEEKING CONCEPTUAL POO.
WE KNOW WE'VE GOT A LONG ROAD TO GO.
NEXT STEP WOULD BE PROBABLY PROCEEDING WITH TRC.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET SOME PRELIMINARY PRICING.
MAKE SURE THAT JOHN CAN FIND THE CAPITAL TO PROCEED.
HE WAS A LITTLE DISTRACTED WITH THE PROJECT ON AT THE POCKET PARK, IF YOU MIGHT RECALL, THAT YOU GUYS HAD APPROVED.
WE'RE BEING VERY CAREFUL AS WE PROCEED WITH THE DESIGN, AND WE'D LOVE TO GET YOUR COMMENTS BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR ALONE.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA?
>> I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
THE DESIGN IS GREAT, AND I DON'T TAKE ANY EXCEPTION TO IT. JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
THE SECOND FLOOR SPACE, AND I REALIZE THIS IS NOT REALLY PRIVY TO HDC.
IS THE SECOND FLOOR SPACE INTENDED TO BE RENTED TO TWO DIFFERENT TENANTS OR ONE? I ASKED THAT BECAUSE THEN I THINK YOU NEED TO MAKE THE OTHER BATHROOM ADA COMPLIANT AS WELL AS OPPOSED TO JUST ONE OF THEM.
>> IT IS INTENDED TO BE ONE TENANT.
IS THE ELEVATOR, AND I REALIZE THE THIRD FLOOR PLAN DOES NOT SHOW THE ELEVATOR GOING TO THE THIRD FLOOR,
[00:10:02]
JUST SHOWS THIS SHAFT, SO IT'S ONLY GOING TO THE SECOND FLOOR.>> WE ARE CONSIDERING GOING TO THE THIRD FLOOR TO MAKE THAT THIRD FLOOR A LITTLE MORE USABLE FOR STORAGE BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO GO UP THOSE STAIRS? THREE. FOR IT AND FOR AC EQUIPMENT.
AS WE PROCEED WITH THE DESIGN, OBVIOUSLY, WE'LL COME BACK AND YOU'LL SEE THE SHAFT POP UP.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE EVEN FURTHER PUSHED BACK BECAUSE IT'LL BE I STILL. IT'S LIKE 50.
I DON'T THINK YOU'LL SEE BE A BIG VISUAL DIFFERENCE, BUT WE ARE COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF VERTICAL ACCESSIBILITY TO DO THAT.
>> MAKE THE ELEVATOR GO UP THERE. THAT'S IT.
THAT WAS MY ONLY. QUESTIONS. ANYONE ELSE?
>> I'M JUST CONFIRMING JOSE FROM THE PLANS THAT I LOOKED AT WITH WHAT YOU AND MIA BOTH SAID, THE ONLY CHANGE THAT I'M SEEING IS THE LITTLE POP UP FOR THE THIRD FLOOR IN THAT CORNER.
>> THAT EVERYTHING ELSE. EVERYTHING STAY THE SAME.
WE DID REDESIGN THE PARAPID, MADE A LITTLE HIGHER.
TO HELP CONCEAL THAT THIRD FLOOR, BUT THE EVERYTHING ELSE.
THE REST OF THE BUILDING REMAINED THE SAME.
WE ADDED POTENTIAL LOCATIONS FOR SIGNAGE SO YOU CAN GET A VISUAL OF WHERE THOSE MIGHT BE DEPENDING ON WHICH TENANTS OR HOW MANY TENANTS ARE.
>> I THINK THE ONLY ONE I HAD WAS KIND OF THE HOLDOVER FROM THE PREVIOUS TIME WE SAW IT, WAS THAT THE QUESTION OF THE 10% LANDSCAPING.
BUT THIS IS MAYBE MORE A QUESTION FOR THE BOARD AND MIA, IS THAT WHAT KIND OF OPTIONS DO WE HAVE FOR CREATIVE SOLUTIONS TOWARDS ADDRESSING THAT.
YOU KNOW, YOU GOT THE ROOFTOP.
CAN A SECTION OF THE ROOFTOP BE USED TO.
MY NOTES FROM LAST YEAR INDICATED THAT WE HAVE THE OPTION TO EITHER DOING WINDOW BOXES, SIMILAR TO WHAT MESKAL HAS DONE, DOING SOME KIND OF A VERTICAL WALL GROWING ELEMENT.
AND THEN WE DO HAVE SOME ROOFTOP AVAILABLE SHOULD WE DECIDE TO DO SOMETHING? IT'S GOT TO HAVE TO BE IN A POT.
OBVIOUSLY, WE DON'T WANT TO GARDEN UP THERE.
THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT CAN OF WORMS. BUT, I THINK THERE'S WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT, 10%.
>> I THINK BECAUSE OF THE WAY DOWNTOWN THERE MOST OF IT'S C THREE 100% COVERAGE.
I THINK WE NEED TO BE OPEN TO CREATIVE SOLUTIONS.
IT'LL GET US SOME NICE GREEN DOWN THERE WITHOUT ASKING PEOPLE TO 10% OF THE BED?
>> WELL, THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART, ESPECIALLY ON A LOT THAT'S 25 FEET WIDE.
DO YOU REALLY, WITH THAT VALUABLE REAL ESTATE WANT TO DEDICATE 10% OF YOUR SITE TO WHAT WOULD BE A TRADITIONAL LANDSCAPE BED THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IN THE URBAN CONTEXT? BUT, YES, THAT VERTICAL ELEMENT, POSSIBLY, THAT SOUTH WALL, WHICH IS PERFECT FOR A GREEN WALL, WINDOW BOXES, SOME COMMON DECATION, THAT WILL MAKE THE NUMBERS WORK OUT.
YEAH. I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, SIR. I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYONE WISHING TO COMMENT ON THIS CASE? SAYING NONE. CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
>> I MEAN, I'M PREPARED TO GO PUT TOGETHER A MOTION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL NOW, AND I KNOW MIA HAD SOME STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT I THINK THOSE ARE THINGS WE'D BE LOOKING FOR FINAL MM ANYWAY' IF YOU GUYS ARE ALL RIGHT, I THINK I DID.
WE HAD GOOD DISCUSSION WHEN IT CAME THE FIRST TIME AND THERE WERE NO MAJOR ISSUES, AND LOOKS GOOD.
I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO MENTION THAT I LOOKED AT THE 1903 SANDBORN MAP.
THE SHAPE OF THE BUILDING ON THAT CORNER WAS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME.
I LIKE THAT. THANK YOU. MR. PIZZEA.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 202-05-0022 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE 202-05-0022 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TODAY. AT THIS TIME.
>> YOU HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? ANY DISCUSSION. PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.
BEN A LONG TIME SINCE YOU WERE HERE.
[00:15:01]
>> THIS SHOULD BE HDC CASE 2025-0023.
IS THERE A TYPO IN THE [INAUDIBLE]? NO, THAT'S RIGHT.
>> WELL, DID I SKIP ONE AGAIN? I KEEP TRYING TO FINISH THESE THINGS.
[OVERLAPPING] 2025-0023, SORRY.
>> TYPO. THE APPLICANTS ARE THE MCKENZIE, REPRESENTED BY AGENT MARK AKINS WITH RICE ARCHITECT FOR 232 SOUTH 7TH STREET.
I HAVE THE WEST ELEVATION AND THE SOUTH ELEVATION ON THE SCREEN.
THIS IS AN HCC APPLICATION FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A PORCH ADDITION, A GARDEN SHED, A PRIVACY FENCE, AND A WASTE BIN ENCLOSURE ON THE EAST SIDE OR TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.
THIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN TO HDC A COUPLE OF TIMES, THREE TIMES TO BE EXACT, TO PRESENT PLANS FOR ADDITIONS AND RENOVATIONS TO THE PROPERTY.
THE MOST RECENT APPEARANCE AT HDC WAS IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR, AND THE HDC ISSUED A COA TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION, DEMOLISH THE EXISTING GARAGE, AND CONSTRUCT A NEW GARAGE.
SINCE THEN, THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE CONSTRUCTED THE ADDITION, WHICH IS IN THAT TOP LEFT-HAND PICTURE.
I PUT A BOX AROUND THEIR NEW ADDITION, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO REUSE THE WINDOWS FROM THE BACK ON THAT ADDITION.
THE FIRST TIME I DROVE BY, I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT WAS AN ADDITION BECAUSE IT HAD THOSE HISTORIC WINDOWS IN THERE.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING, AND I NEED TO DOUBLE-CHECK THE PLANS FOR THAT ONE.
THEN ALSO, THEY ADDED THE STEPS AND REAR ENTRANCE ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION.
ON THE BOTTOM, YOU CAN SEE, I DROVE BY AND I TOOK A PICTURE MOST RECENTLY.
THAT'S JUST THEIR EMPTY BACKYARD SINCE THE GARAGE HAS BEEN DEMOLISHED.
THE TOP, HERE IS THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN FEBRUARY OF 2024, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT ADDITION IS OUTLINED, AND THEN THE NEW GARAGE IS OUTLINED DOWN THERE.
THEN, ON THE BOTTOM IS THE NEW PROPOSED SITE PLAN, AND YOU SEE THAT ADDITION IS FULLY PART OF THE HOUSE NOW.
YOU CAN SEE THE 150 SQUARE FOOT PORCH ADDITION TO THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY.
THEN THE GARDEN SHED ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER, AND THEN THE WASTE BIT ENCLOSURE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, AND A THREE-FOOT GARDEN FENCE THERE NEXT TO THE SHED.
THEN HERE IS THE PROPOSED AERIAL RENDERING, AND THEN A ZOOMED-IN SITE PLAN OF WHAT IS REQUESTED FOR TONIGHT.
THE PROPOSED PROJECT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE R-2 ZONING DISTRICT AND DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING FINAL APPROVAL OF HDC 2025 23 TONIGHT.
>> [LAUGHTER] THERE'S TWO SIMILAR PROJECTS.
HELLO, MARK AKINS WITH RICE ARCHITECT 961687 GATEWAY BOULEVARD.
WHAT CAN I TELL YOU? YOU'VE SEEN THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROJECT.
IN SHORT, THE OWNERS, HAVING LIVED IN THE HOUSE FOR A LITTLE WHILE, THEIR TASTES HAVE JUST CHANGED.
I THINK FOR THE BETTER, IT'S A LESS DENSE SOLUTION FOR THE PROPERTY WAS BEFORE WE HAD THE ADU COMING ON BOARD WITH VARIOUS OTHER COMPONENTS.
THIS IS A A SIMPLIFIED VERSION OF THAT, ALLOWS THEM TO GET A COVERED SPOT IN THE REAR YARD TO ENJOY THAT YARD TO THE FULLEST AND STILL KEEP A SHED.
IT'S WORTH MENTIONING ALSO THAT THE ORIGINAL SHED, WHICH, IN SEASONS PAST THAT WAS TORN DOWN.
YOU MAY REMEMBER THIS ONE WAS ACTUALLY NOT TOO FAR OFF IN SCALE TO THIS ONE.
WE THOUGHT TO GIVE THIS SHED A LITTLE MORE CHARACTER, ALIGNED WITH THE HOUSE, BUT NOT OVER THE TOP, TO BRING ALL THE PIECES TOGETHER.
>> I HAD TWO. WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP IS EXACTLY WHAT I LIKED ABOUT WHEN I SAW IN THIS VERSION, IS THAT I REGRETTED LOSING THAT OLD GARAGE, MAINLY BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IN AGGREGATE, WE DON'T HAVE MANY OF THOSE SMALLER OUTBUILDINGS STILL REMAINING.
I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO SEE THIS LITTLE SHED COME BACK INTO THE MIX BECAUSE I THINK IT'S SOMETHING MORE MISSING THROUGHOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE DETAILING RELATES TO THE HOUSE.
I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME, THAT THE BUILDING HAS SOMETHING OF THE CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE DESIGNED INTO IT.
>> I AGREE WITH JIM. I DID NOT MIND THE ADU BEFORE,
[00:20:04]
BUT THE SCALE OF THIS IS REALLY APPROPRIATE.I THINK IT WORKS WELL. I THINK IT'S A GREAT IT'S A GREAT HOPEFULLY, FINAL SOLUTION FOR THE SITE.
>> YOU NEVER KNOW. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
IN ONE OF THE DRAWINGS, IT SAYS SCALLOPED LAP SIDING IN.
MAYBE WHAT I'M THINKING, SCALLOP SIDING, IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I THINK OF A SCALLOP SIDING IS LIKE.
THE ACTUAL SIDING IS THE SCALLOP IS ACTUALLY IN SECTION.
>> GOT IT. THANK YOU FOR THAT.
[OVERLAPPING] I APPRECIATE THAT.
>> IT'S A HISTORICAL SCALLOP SIDING.
>> GOT IT. THEN, ON THE PORCH ADDITION, AND I KNOW IT'S BEFORE MY TIME, REMEMBERING, WAS THE BACK OF THE HOUSE WHERE THE PORCH IS BEING ADDED ONTO, WAS THAT AN ADDITION, OR IS THAT A PART OF THE ORIGINAL PART OF THE BUILDING? ASKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE WINDOW THAT YOU'RE PULLING OUT AND PUTTING A DOOR IN.
>> VERY GOOD. THIS PART OF THE HOUSE WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL RENOVATION OF THE HOME PRIOR TO OUR CLIENTS OWNING IT.
>> TWO YEARS AGO. I CAN'T RECALL.
ROB ISN'T PRESENT, IF THOSE WINDOWS WERE PULLED FROM THE EXISTING HOUSE OR NOT. I DON'T THINK SO.
BUT IN ANY CASE, THAT ENTIRE WING WAS AN ADDITION TO THE HOUSE.
MAYBE, WHEN WE REDID IT THE FIRST TIME, WE REALLY BROUGHT THAT WHOLE WING UP TO LIFE UP TO STUFF.
WHAT'S THE FOUNDATION GOING TO BE FOR THE PORCH ADDITION, THE PIERS IN THE TWO CORNERS?
>> I BELIEVE THE PIERS ARE REFLECTED AS BRICK TO MATCH THE HOUSE, BRICK PIERS WITH CATTLE RAIL.
>> YEAH, IT MATCHES THE REST OF IT.
MY ONLY COMMENT WOULD BE, YOU'VE GOT, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY A SIX-FOOT FENCE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE NEW SHED.
>> I GET IT, WHY THAT'S PROPOSED, BUT IT MIGHT LOOK A LITTLE BIT NICER IN PROPORTION IF IT WAS THE SAME SIZE FENCE AS THE PICKET FENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE.
BUT IT'S NOT A DEAL BREAKER FOR ME.
>> SURE. IF I MAY, THAT EAST SIDE IS THE TRANSITION BETWEEN COMMERCIAL ALONG 8TH STREET AND THIS, WHICH, ACTUALLY, JIM, YOU NOTED ON THAT HOUSE, OR THE LITTLE BUILDING, I WAS I WAS ACTUALLY GLAD, ALSO, FOR THAT REASON, THIS CORNER POST IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THERE.
THE TRANSITIONS RIGHT ON THAT CORNER, WHICH I THINK THIS HELPS.
>> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS?
>> MARK, THAT WINDOW SPECTER THE ANDERSON 400.
IS THAT FOR THE SHED AS WELL AS THE REPLACEMENTS, OR IS THAT JUST ON THE SHED?
>> THAT HAS THE RAISED EXTERIOR GRILLS ON THEM?
>> YES, MA'AM. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE CALLED OUT PREVIOUSLY FOR THESE.
I CAN'T REMEMBER. THAT IS WHAT WE PUT IN, YES.
FOR THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AS WELL.
>> THE GUIDELINES ASK THAT THERE'S SOME SLIGHT DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN ANYTHING THAT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION WHERE YOU HAVE TO MATCH EXISTING SIDING OR MATCH THIS.
OBVIOUSLY, THE WINDOWS, IT'S A DEAD GIVEAWAY, BUT SOMEBODY MIGHT THINK THAT JUST THE WINDOWS WERE CHANGED.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SLIGHT MODIFICATIONS?
>> I THINK THAT THE GARAGE ITSELF BEING THE IDEA, IF YOU'LL ALLOW THE INTERPRETATION, THE IDEA IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXISTING HOME, THEY'RE GROWING OVER THE DECADES, AND THERE'S PIECES ADDED, AND WE CAN SEE WHERE THE ORIGINAL HOME WAS.
NOW, A LOT OF THAT HAPPENS ORGANICALLY, OF COURSE, OVER TIME, BUT THIS IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE BUILDING.
I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO REFLECT THE CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE IN A WAY THAT IS JUST ENOUGH.
AS SIMPLE AS THAT BUILDING IS.
I SUPPOSE WE COULD SIMPLIFY THE ROOF LINES A LITTLE BIT, BUT WE LOOKED AT THAT, AND IT JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME ANCHORING CORNER POST FEEL TO IT.
THIS IS WHY WE CAME TO THIS SOLUTION.
>> [OVERLAPPING] BECAUSE IT'S NOT PHYSICALLY ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE.
[00:25:02]
>> CORRECT. IT IS A STANDALONE STRUCTURE.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, SIR.
>> I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THIS CASE FROM THE PUBLIC? SEEING NONE. SORRY. I'M SORRY, MR. SKOWSKI.
>> YOU DID. NO. COME UP, PLEASE.
>> [INAUDIBLE] BUILT CLASS CONSTRUCTION, 710 BEACH STREET.
IN ANSWER TO THE WINDOWS THAT CAME OUT, VERONICA, THAT WAS WHERE THE FRENCH DOORS ARE.
THEY WERE MARVIN WINDOWS WITH THE PRAIRIE STYLE GRID.
THEY WERE BEING SAVED TO BE REUSED INTO THE SHED.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I'M GOING TO LOOK CAREFULLY.
BOARD DISCUSSION. ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-0023 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKES THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS AND FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD, THAT HDC CASE HDC 2025-0023 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? ANY COMMENTS? PLEASE CALL THE VOTE.
>> THE NEXT SET CASE WE HAVE IS HDC 2025-0024, CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH. MS. SADLER.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. THE APPLICANT FOR HDC 2025 24 IS THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, REQUESTING FINAL APPROVAL FOR A COA TO DEMOLISH A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, THE FORMER HOME OF ATLANTIC SEAFOOD, LOCATED AT 10 ASH STREET.
THE STRUCTURE IS AN 840-SQUARE-FOOT WOOD-FRAME VERNACULAR BUILDING CONSTRUCTED IN 1963.
TO PROVIDE SOME BACKGROUND OF HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT HERE TODAY IN SEPTEMBER 2025, THE LEASE AGREEMENT WAS MUTUALLY TERMINATED BY THE CITY.
THEN THE CITY COMMISSIONED A STRUCTURAL DAMAGE ASSESSMENT BY GILLETT AND ASSOCIATES, IN WHICH THE BUILDING WAS FOUND TO BE IN VERY POOR CONDITION.
THIS SLIDE SHOWS SOME PICTURES FROM THAT DAMAGE ASSESSMENT.
THEN, ON OCTOBER 9TH, THE CITY'S BUILDING OFFICIAL DECLARED THE BUILDING DANGEROUS.
AT THIS POINT, SINCE THE STRUCTURE LIES WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE CRA, THE CITY APPLIED TO THE HCC FOR A DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE.
IN MY STAFF REPORT, WHICH IS IN THE AGENDA PACKET, I COVERED THE RELEVANT LDC SECTIONS, THE DESIGN GUIDELINE STANDARDS FOR DEMOLITION, THE LEASE AGREEMENTS, AND THE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE ASSESSMENT.
TO SUMMARIZE, ALTHOUGH THE BUILDING HOLDS GREAT LOCAL CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, IT IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR LOCAL STATE OR FEDERAL HISTORIC DESIGNATION.
IT IS ONE OF THE LAST VERNACULAR STRUCTURES THAT CHARACTERIZE THE WORKING WATERFRONT, AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO MANY RESIDENTS.
IN THE CONTEXT OF THE PROJECTS THAT ARE HAPPENING ALONG THE WATERFRONT, AND OVERALL REVITALIZATION EFFORT OF THE CRA, THE DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE WOULD BENEFIT ACCESS TO THE BOAT RAMP, PROMOTE RECREATION, AND IMPROVE VIEW CORRIDORS ALONG ASH STREET AND FRONT STREET.
THE FLORIDA MASTER SITE FILE HAS BEEN PREPARED AND SENT TO THE DIVISION OF HISTORIC RESOURCES, WHICH IS INCLUDED IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET TO IMMORTALIZE THE STRUCTURE AND STATE AND LOCAL FILES.
I BASE MY RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE ON THE DAMAGE ASSESSMENT, WHICH OUTLINES MANY FAILING COMPONENTS OF THE BUILDING, WHICH INCLUDE THE INTERIOR WALLS, FOUNDATION, FLOORS, PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, AND OTHER STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS.
DUE TO OUR FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE, WHICH STIPULATES THAT ONLY 30% OF THE BUILDING'S APPRAISED VALUE CAN BE INVESTED INTO A BUILDING THAT IS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE, BEFORE THE WHOLE THING HAS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO CODE.
IT SIMPLY IS NOT FEASIBLE FOR THE STRUCTURE TO BE REPAIRED AT THIS POINT, AS IT WOULD HAVE TO BE RAISED 12 FEET OFF THE GROUND.
GIVEN THIS INFORMATION, STAFF FINDS THAT THE REQUEST IS COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES, DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, AND THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS TO RECOMMEND FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> THANK YOU. MS. FINKELSTEIN OR MR. GLISSON,
[00:30:03]
WHO'S GOING TO BE THE APPLICANT?>> GOOD EVENING, JEREMIAH GLISSON, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. GLISSON?
>> I THINK I WANTED TO START JUST BY SAYING THAT WHAT YOU PUT TOGETHER WAS VERY THOROUGH.
YOU DO A GOOD JOB ON ALL OF THEM, BUT THIS ONE, ESPECIALLY, HELPED ME FEEL LIKE I'M MAKING AN INFORMED DECISION TONIGHT.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO IT.
>> DID I SEE THAT THE SIGN IS BEING HAS ALREADY BEEN SAVED?
>> MR. GLESON, MATTER OF OPINION.
>> THE PRIOR TENANT, MR. SALT MARSH, DID REMOVE THAT SIGN.
HE PLANS TO INCORPORATE THAT SIGN INTO THE ATLANTIC SEAFOOD THERE ON SALA ROAD AND THAT FACILITY.
ELEMENTS OF THE SEAFOOD THIS FACILITY INTO THAT.
AS PART OF A PROJECT THAT HE HAS IN THE WORKS, DON'T HAVE AN UPDATE AS TO WHERE HE'S AT WITH THAT, BUT THAT WAS HIS INTENT WHEN HE REMOVED THE SIGN.
I THINK THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT VIEW CARD OR DOWN ASH STREET.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY A SUBTRACTION FROM THE RIVER FRONT THAT'S GOING TO OPEN THAT UP, WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE WONDERFUL.
IS THERE ANYTHING INSIDE OF THAT BUILDING THAT'S WORTH SALVAGING IN TERMS OF WOOD THAT CAN BE USED IN THE FUTURE? I COULD UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAY NOT BE, AND IT'S PROBABLY ALL WATER DAMAGED OR WHATEVER.
>> IT'S IN PRETTY POOR CONDITIONS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. I'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE OF IT, SO I HAVE NO IDEA.
>> THERE HAS BEEN SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH THE MUSEUM AND WITH SOME LOCAL ARTISTS ABOUT SOME OF THE EXTERIOR BOARDS.
IF WE GET APPROVAL TO DEMOLITION TO USE SOME OF THAT FOR AS MS. SADLER MENTIONED, THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST.
THERE'S A LOT OF SENSITIVITY TO THE STRUCTURE, NOSTALGIC VALUE TO THE STRUCTURE.
THERE'S BEEN SOME INTEREST IN KEEPING ELEMENTS OF THAT.
THE MUSEUM PLANS TO DOCUMENT THIS FACILITY AND THE DEMOLITION, AND WE HAVE A COORDINATION WITH THEM.
THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE WORKS FOR THAT IF WE GET MOVE FORWARD AND AT THAT POINT.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO COMMENT? VERY WELL.
I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO COMMENT ON THIS PROJECT OR QUESTION IT? SEEING NONE. CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. FOR DISCUSSION.
>> I THINK ONE OF OUR TYPICAL COMMENTS IS THAT WE MAKE A REQUEST THAT THERE BE SOME SENSITIVITY TO THE DEMOLITION AND TRY TO PRESERVE IF THERE ARE ANY HISTORIC RESOURCES THAT COULD BE SALVAGED THAT THEY THEN EVER BE MADE IN THAT REGARD.
IT'S NOT DEMO BY BULLDOZER, IT'S A MORE SENSITIVE TAKING A PART, AND ESPECIALLY IF PEOPLE IN TOWN ARE INTERESTED IN HARVESTING SIDING AND SUCH FOR DOING INTERESTING PROJECTS, THAT'D BE A GOOD IDEA.
>> YOU'VE ALREADY COMMITTED TO THAT.
>> WE'VE DISCUSSED, WE HAVEN'T MADE ANY COMMITMENT UNTIL WE GET BOTH APPROVAL FROM THIS BOARD AND THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS.
THE PERMITS HAVE BEEN APPLIED TO THEM.
ABOUT 40 SQUARE FOOT THE FACILITY IS OVER THE MEAN HEIGH WATER LINE, WHICH REQUIRES APPROVAL FROM THEIR OFFICE.
THEY RECOGNIZE A SENSITIVITY TO THE TIMELINE.
WE HAD 60 DAYS TO DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE, WHICH THERE IS A WINDOW FOR AN EXTENSION POTENTIALLY, BUT IT'S A SECTION 10 PERMIT THROUGH THEIR NATION WIDE PERMIT SYSTEM.
IT'S USUALLY A 30 DAY TURNAROUND, SO THEY'RE MOVING ALONG AS QUICKLY AS THEY CAN.
>> I THINK ALONG THOSE LINES, AND I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE.
THERE'S NOTHING FANTASTICAL ABOUT THIS BUILDING.
IT'S A VERNACULAR SEA SHANTY, A GABLE WITH VERY PEDESTRIAN MATERIALS ON IT.
I THINK IT'S MORE OF AN ICONIC CULTURAL MEMORY AND LOOK AND IT'S THE COLOR AND THE SIGN THAT WAS SO ICONIC.
THEN OF COURSE, CHARLIE AND THE GUYS FEEDING THE PELICANS, YOU'VE GOT THE WHOLE WATERFRONT FEEL.
I'M WONDERING IF A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE HAVE SOME OF THESE THAT ARE BEYOND REPAIR, AND WE REALIZE THAT.
WE ASK FOR A GOOD SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS.
THEN MAYBE IF THE MUSEUM IS WILLING, AND IF WE CAN WORK WITH THEM SOMEHOW, IF THERE'S EVEN JUST LIKE A LITTLE VIGNETTE, LIKE A CORNER BIT OF THE TRIM WITH SOME OF THE SIDING AND MAYBE A LITTLE ROOF OVERHANGS.
THAT BECOMES LIKE A MARK UP LIKE A LITTLE SOMETHING THAT GOES INTO THE MUSEUM.
THERE'S SOME STORY, AND MAYBE THAT CAN HELP PEOPLE REMEMBER IT AND SHOW THEIR KIDS
[00:35:05]
AND THEIR GRANDKIDS WHEN THERE USED TO BE THIS LITTLE SHACK DOWN AT THE WATERFRONT, BUT I MEAN, LITERALLY MADE OUT OF SOME OF THE MATERIALS THERE JUST AS A LITTLE HOMAGE.WHAT WAS THERE BE, THERE'S I THINK THERE'S T111 SIDING ON IT. THERE'S PANEL.
IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S GREAT MATERIALS, BUT IT'S A MEMORY.
>> ANYTIME WE HAVE A DEMOLITION, I BELIEVE THAT IT'S OUR STANDARD PRACTICE TO TAKE SEVERAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF WHAT IS THERE NOW.
>> IS THAT YOUR PLAN TO PHOTOGRAPH THE BUILDING INSIDE-OUTSIDE SO THAT WE HAVE A RECORD OF WHAT WAS THERE?
>> THERE WAS A LOT OF PHOTOS INCLUDED IN THE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE ASSESSMENT.
DID YOU GUYS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THOSE?
>> I THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO JUST TAKE A LOOK AND SEE IF IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT BEFORE FOR DEMOLITION.
>> IN MY OPINION, THE PHOTOS THAT ARE IN THE ASSESSMENT SOMEWHAT EXCEED THE PHOTOS WE'VE RECEIVED IN THE PAST, AS FAR AS DOCUMENTATION GOES, BUT I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANOTHER TRIP IN TO TAKE SOME MORE PHOTOS.
>> IF WE HAVE THOSE THEN, THEY COULD BECOME PART OF THE VIGNETTE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WHAT THAT LEAVES IS MAYBE AN EVE.
>> IT'S A THOUGHT. IT'S JUST IDEA TO THROW RIGHT THERE, AND THAT MIGHT SUFFICE SOMETHING.
>> IF YOU FIND A PIECE THAT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE PART OF THAT AN EXHIBIT.
PERHAPS WE CAN HOLD ONTO THAT.
>> I THINK THERE'S SOME IDEAS IN REGARDS TO THE PARK, WHICH IS WHY THE IMAGE IS PULLED UP TO, DOCUMENT THE HISTORY DOWN THERE.
>> AS A GARDEN PRESERVATION THROUGH PHOTOGRAPHY, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE ARE TALKING WITH THE MUSEUM ABOUT, AND THEY PLAN TO BE A PART OF THAT PROCESS.
THEY'VE ALREADY PUT US IN CONTACT WITH THEIR PHOTOGRAPHER, AND WE'RE WORKING ON SCHEDULE TO DO THAT GET THE FENCING ASIDE, LET THEM GET SOME PHOTOGRAPHY, AND THEN ALSO BE A PART OF THAT DEMOLITION PROCESS.
THERE IS OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP A BIT OF ATLANTIC SEAFOOD INTO POTENTIALLY TO KEEP ATLANTIC SEAFOOD INTO THE NORTHERN SECTION OF THE WATERFRONT PARK AND OR ANY FUTURE DEVELOPMENT THERE AT THE WATERFRONT, PARTICULARLY THE BRETT'S AREA, ONCE WE GET TO PHASE 2 OF THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE BRETT'S DEMOLITION FOOTPRINT.
WE HAD THIS SET UP SO THAT SHOULD THERE BE A QUESTION OF LIKE WHAT'S NEXT, WHAT COMES AFTER? AS YOU CAN SEE, THE WATERFRONT PARK THAT YOU ALL APPROVED AND IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION WAS WORKING AROUND THIS PARCEL.
WHEN THE TERMINATION OCCURRED EARLY, IT WAS EXPECTED TO EXPIRE IN 2028, AND NOW PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPLETE THE PARK AND NOT WORK AROUND IT.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THE PARK IS THERE JUST TO THE SOUTH, AND NOW THAT OPENS UP THAT ENTIRE AREA FOR THE COMPLETION OF THAT SECTION OF SEAWALL, WHICH IS HERE.
THERE'S ABOUT 50 FOOT THAT NEEDS TO BE COMPLETED TO TIE INTO THE BOAT RAMP, THE EVENTUAL REHABILITATION OR REPLACEMENT OF THE BOAT RAMP.
THEN OF COURSE, TO OPEN UP THE SIDE DOOR, IF YOU WILL, TO THE WATERFRONT PARK.
OF COURSE, THE PRIMARY ACCESS IS HERE, BUT AS WE ALL KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO OUR HOMES OFTEN IS THAT SIDE DOOR THAT GETS USED.
OF COURSE, A LOT OF TOURISTS OR VISITORS OR RESIDENTS, AND WHEN THEY'RE COMING TO THE PARK, THEY MAY BE COMING FROM THE CENTER STREET AREA, SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMING INTO THAT SIDE.
WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE SENT THIS TO THOMAS AND HUTTON AND SAID, PENDING APPROVAL.
LET'S GIVE US A PROPOSAL FOR THE DESIGN OF THIS NORTHERN PORTION OF WHAT'S KNOWN AS PARKING LOT C AND D. THE COMMISSION HAS RE ALLOCATED FUNDS FOR THAT PURPOSE.
THOMAS AND HUTTON IS WORKING ON SOME CONCEPTIONS FOR IMPLEMENTING FOR SOME SOFT IMPROVEMENTS TO THIS AREA, RECOGNIZING THAT WE HAVE TO GO IN AND FINISH THE SEA WALL.
WE HAVE TO GO IN AND DO BOAT RAMP WORK.
YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT ANY SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE THERE WHEN WE KNOW HERE IN 3-5 YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING FURTHER WATER SHORELINE IMPROVEMENTS.
THEY'RE WORKING ON THAT, AND AS SOON AS WE GET A CONCEPT, WE'LL BE BRINGING THAT TO YOU ALL FOR REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. DISCUSSION. DO I HAVE A MOTION?
>> ON THE DISCUSSION BIT THAT IN THE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE REPORT, THERE IS A SKETCH OF THE PLAN, WHICH IS GOOD, BUT ME, I THINK THE ONLY PHOTOS THAT SEEM TO BE LACKING ARE, OVERALLS.
THE NORTH ELEVATION, THE SOUTH OF IT, THE WHOLE ELEVATION.
THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILED PHOTOS, BUT NO OVERALLS.
I WOULD JUST RECOMMEND GET SOME OVERALLS OF THE WHOLE THING.
[00:40:04]
>> I MOVE TO A PROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-0024 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, DO WE NEED TO ADD SOMETHING ABOUT THE PHOTOS OR IS THAT UNDERSTOOD?
>> GO AHEAD AND PUT IT IN THERE JUST SO WE DOCUMENT IT.
>> WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT WE GET OVERALL PHOTOS OF THE EXTERIOR.
>> EXTERIOR FACADE ELEVATIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF FLOW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE HDC 2025-0024 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES AND COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
>> YES. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK ON THIS PROJECT.
>> I THINK THAT ONE MIGHT HAVE ALSO BEEN A TYPO IN MR. STAFFER REPORT. THIS IS HDC 2025-0025.
>> HEY, FINE. 0025 FOR THE RECORD.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S MORE QUILL DOWN.
>> THE APPLICANT FOR THIS CASE IS MS. HASKE REPRESENTED BY MIKE STAFFER OF MICHAEL SOER ARCHITECT FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 122 SOUTH SIXTH STREET.
IT'S A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
THE APPLICATIONS FOR FINAL APPROVAL FOR A COA TO RENOVATE THE BACK YARD, INCLUDING REMOVING THE EXISTING PATIO AND REPLACING, REMOVING THE EXISTING SHED, TO REPLACE IT WITH A LARGER SHED, INSTALLING PAVERS AND A TRASH CAN AREA, AND TO INSTALL NEW FENCING AND GATES.
THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT IS THE EXISTING SHED AND A PORTION OF THE PATIO, AND ON THE RIGHT IS WHERE THE PARCEL IS POSITIONED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
ON THE TOP OF THIS SLIDE IS THE EXISTING SITE PLAN, AND ON THE BOTTOM IS THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH THE R2 ZONING DISTRICT.
THE ONLY COMMENT I HAD ABOUT THIS CASE WAS ABOUT THE UNPAINTED SHED.
IN ORDER TO BETTER COMPLEMENT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, WHICH IS CALLED OUT IN THE OUTBUILDING SECTION OF OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES, I WOULD ASK THE APPLICANT TO CONSIDER PAINTING IT RATHER THAN LEAVING IT RAW WOOD.
ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY THE LDC OR THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, IT IS MORE OF A SUBJECTIVE DESIGN CHOICE.
I JUST WANTED TO PROPOSE THAT RECOMMENDATION AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BAR RECOMMENDING FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME FOR THIS CASE.
>> NOW, MR. STAFFER. I JUST WANTED TO KEEP YOUR NAME OUT THERE FOR.
>> MY NAME IS JIM POZZETA AND MICHAEL STAFFER ARCHITECT 1417 SIDE OF THE ROAD.
[OVERLAPPING] WHAT'S IT TO FEEL AT HOME? WHAT YOU BE ALONE IN THIS. I'M CONFUSED TOO.
I THINK PRETTY WELL SPELLED OUT BY MIA, WHAT'S GOING ON.
THEY'VE REALIZED THEY HAVE AN UNDER UTILIZED BACKYARD AND WANTED TO IMPROVE IT CONSIDERABLY.
WE ARE REUSING AS MUCH OF THE PAVERS AS WE CAN ON THE PATIOS.
JUST FOR CLARITY, THE AREA IN FRONT OF THE TRASH AND THE TRASH AREA WILL BE THE BRICK PAVERS THAT ARE THERE.
ALL THE WALKING PATHS ARE THE GRAY GRAVEL WITH THE GRAY FLAGSTONE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BRICK BACK THERE TO REDO THE WHOLE ALL THE WALKWAYS.
INCLUDING THESE WALKWAYS, THERE'S ONE ON THE BOTTOM THAT SAYS EXISTING.
THEY'VE DECIDED TO MAKE IT ALL MATCH UP AND REMOVING THAT AND PUTTING IN THE GRAVEL AND THE STONE.
FOR THE RECORD, MICHAEL STAFFER ARCHITECT DID NOT DESIGN THIS SHED.
THAT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.
>> ARE THERE ANY P HICKORIES ON THE PROPERTY?
>> P HICKORIES, NO. NOT ON THIS ONE. YOU REMEMBER THAT ONE?
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. STAFFER?
>> I THINK MINE WAS PROBABLY GOING TO BE ABOUT THE SHED AND I KNEW FULL WELL YOU DIDN'T DESIGN IT.
>> MY QUESTION WAS GOING TO BE WHY? I KNOW EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE SOMETHING ELSE DESIGN THERE.
THAT RELATES MORE TO THE HOUSE THAT I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THESE WINDOWS THAT ARE GOING IN IT ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
BASED ON WHAT I'M SEEING ON THESE IMAGES,
[00:45:01]
I'M SKEPTICAL THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN JUST A VINYL WINDOW STUCK IN THERE.BASED ON WHAT WE JUST SAW EARLIER TONIGHT, I'D MUCH RATHER SEE SOMETHING THAT RELATES MORE TO THE HOUSE.
THIS IS SO TUCKED BACK IN THERE, AND IT'S AN INFILL LOT OR AN INTERIOR LOT.
THERE'S NO VISIBILITY FROM THE STREETS OR AND IT'S ALSO TUCKED BEHIND THEIR FENCES.
>> I AGREE. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I'M BUT THEN TO HEAR THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FINISHED.
PAINTED. THAT PROBABLY ANOTHER THING THAT MAYBE, THAT'S SUCH AN EASY WAY TO GET IT TO RELATE TO THE HOUSE, TO PAINT IT.
>> IT WILL BE THAT CAN BE PAINTED TO MATCH THE HOUSE.
>> IT WILL BE. IS THAT WHAT YOU SAW?
>> WE SAW THE RECOMMENDATION SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOTED IN HERE.
>> MAYBE I'M MISSING THIS ON HERE, BUT THE NEW SIX FOOT FENCE, ARE WE MATCHING IN MATERIAL KIND DESIGNED TO MENTION EVERYTHING, THE EXISTING.
>> CORRECT. THERE'S A FENCE THAT RUNS ALONG THE BACK OF THE HOUSE THAT IS ACTUALLY THE NEIGHBOR BEHIND THEM'S FENCE, AND THEY LIKE IT.
THEY WERE JUST GOING TO BRING IT DOWN THAT NORTH SIDE WHERE THE NEW FENCE, AND THEY'LL MATCH THAT PICTURE THAT'S IN THERE.
>> DID WE HAVE THAT CALLED OUT SOMEWHERE ON HERE? I DIDN'T SEE THAT. I THINK IT WAS IN THERE.
>> THEY HAVE. CAN YOU SHOW THAT LITTLE PHOTO AGAIN?
>> THIS PHOTO WAS IN THE PACKET.
>> [OVERLAPPING] OH, IT SAYS THAT WAS IN THERE. OKAY.
>> LIKE I SAID, THAT'S THE GARAGE APARTMENT OF THE HOUSE.
THAT COLOR IS NOT THE COLOR OF THEIR HOUSE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO MATCH THE FENCE SO IT ALL LOOKS THE SAME ALL THE WAY AROUND.
THOUGH IT DOESN'T TURN COLOR CHANGE COLORS AS IT GOES DOWN THE TWO SIDES OF THEIR LOT.
>> MIKE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DISTANCES FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TO THE ACTUAL MAIN HOUSE? IS THAT ALSO A FIVE FOOT SETBACK, OR IS THAT SOMETHING? I'M ASKING BECAUSE I'M JUST CURIOUS, IS THAT SHED REALLY, TRULY GOING TO BE TOTALLY BEHIND THE EXISTING HOUSE, OR IS IT GOING TO POP OUT A LITTLE BIT.
>> I WOULD TELL YOU THAT THE DIMENSION ON THE NORTH SIDE IS SIX, THREE INCHES, SO THAT LOOKS PRETTY [OVERLAPPING] THE SOUTH SIDE AS WELL.
THE SHED IS FIVE FEET OFF, SO IT IS ABOUT A FOOT OR SO OFF FROM.
BUT IF THERE'S PROBABLY A PICTURE IN THE PICTURES THAT WERE SUBMITTED THAT THERE'S VIRTUALLY NO WAY TO SEE DOWN THAT SIDE.
>> I WAS STANDING THERE AND IT'S PRETTY WELL CONCEALED, ALTHOUGH I WOULD AGREE, I DON'T LOVE THE DESIGN OF THE SHED, AND I THINK AT A MINIMUM, IT NEEDS TO BE PAINTED.
I KNOW THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON LANDSCAPING, BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT THERE'D BE SOME LANDSCAPING THAT WOULD BE PUT IN PLACE TO SCREEN IT A BIT MORE IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ACTUALLY LET YOU DESIGN SOMETHING.
>> THAT'S NEXT PHASE TO DO LANDSCAPING FOR THE BACKYARD.
THEY'VE THEY FOCUSED ON SOME OTHER PROJECTS IN THE HOUSE RECENTLY, SO THIS IS NOW THEY REALIZED IT MISSED OPPORTUNITY IN OUR BACKYARD.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, SIR.
>> ANY BOARD DISCUSSION? [LAUGHTER]
I WAS REFERRING TO MR. PIZZA TOO.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? SAYING NONE. DO I HAVE A MOTION?
>> I MOVED TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 202-50-0205 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
I MOVED THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT CASE 202-05-0025 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> OKAY. NOW WE'RE ONTO OUR BOARD BUSINESS AND A REVIEW TO THE UPDATES TO THE WINDOWS SURVEY. MS.SADLER.
>> SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE WINDOW SURVEY MANY MONTHS AGO, AND I COLLECTED COMMENTS OVER TIME, AND THEN I FELL TO THE WAYSIDE.
I'M BRINGING THIS BACK FOR APPROVAL.
THE HDC HAS PURVIEW TO ADOPT POLICIES LIKE THIS ONE.
IT WOULD JUST BE A SIMPLE VOTE TONIGHT TO APPROVE THE UPDATES TO THE WINDOW SURVEY.
IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET OF THE CURRENT WINDOW SURVEY AND THE PROPOSED EDITS, WHICH ARE ALL HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW.
THE MAIN CHANGES HERE IS THE MENTION OF THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL AS A REQUIREMENT TO CAN FILL OUT THE SURVEY.
MR. POZETTA PROVIDED ME WITH A NEW WINDOW SKETCH THAT SHOWS THE SHUTTERS ACTUALLY AS PART OF THE WINDOW,
[00:50:03]
RATHER AS JUST COSMETIC, AND THEN THE ADDITION OF MY CONTACT INFORMATION AT THE END OF THE WINDOW SURVEY.I WAS DISCUSSING THIS WITH ATTORNEY PRINCE TODAY, AND WE GOT CAUGHT ON THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL ELEMENT OF IT.
THE WINDOWS ARE A TOUCHY SUBJECT, AS WE KNOW, AND EVERYONE WANTS TO REPLACE THEIR WINDOWS ALL THE TIME.
WHEN THEY ASK ME WHO CAN FLOAT THE SURVEY, I SAY DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY DEFINED.
I WANTED TO ADD THIS SENTENCE, ALONG WITH THE OTHER PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE OVERVIEW SECTION, WHICH SAYS, INSTEAD OF JUST DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, IT SAYS A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, WHICH IS DEFINED AS A PRESERVATION CONSULTANT, OR ARCHITECT, BUILDING CONTRACTOR, OR ENGINEER, PREFERABLY WITH HISTORIC PRESERVATION EXPERIENCE, OTHER THAN A WINDOW SALES OR MANUFACTURING REPRESENTATIVE.
WE KNOW THAT'S A LITTLE WORDY, BUT I THINK THAT'S SPECIFIC ENOUGH TO GIVE SOMEONE THE RIGHT DIRECTION WITH WHO CAN FILL OUT THE WINDOW SURVEY.
THE SUM I'M LOOKING FOR EITHER IF THERE'S ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK ON EDITS I CAN MAKE TO THIS OR IF WE WOULD LIKE TO APPROVE THIS AS OUR ACTING WINDOW SURVEY DOCUMENT MOVING FORWARD.
>> I THINK THAT DEFINITION IS REALLY GOOD.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE PAST.
WE CAN'T JUST SAY DESIGN PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THAT CLARITY IN THERE, AND IT GIVES THEM PLENTY OF OPTIONS.
IT DOESN'T REQUIRE EVERYBODY TO GO HIRE AN ARCHITECT, SO I LIKE THAT.
>> I THINK THE MAIN THING CERTAINLY THAT I'M FOCUSED ON.
BUT WHAT WE AS A BOARD ARE REALLY LOOKING FOR IS A THOROUGH DOCUMENTATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE WINDOWS.
WITH SOMETHING LIKE A PLAN OR ELEVATIONS THAT ARE NUMBERED SO THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND WINDOW WAY AT THIS LOCATION.
THESE ARE THE IMAGES ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
TO ME, AN ACCURATE PRESENTATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON COMBINED WITH THE SUGGESTIONS OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH THE WINDOWS, IF ANYTHING.
>> THE ONE THAT WE DID, THAT HAD ALMOST LIKE A TRIAGE, THAT HAD CODES ON.
IS THIS REPLACING THAT OR IS THIS IN CONJUNCTION WITH? I'M CONFUSED ON.
>> THE TRIAGE WAS MY INTERPRETATION OF THE WINDOW SURVEY WHEN SOMEONE ASKED ME TO HELP THEM WITH THEIR PROJECT, AND THAT WAS HOW I DOCUMENTED THAT.
>> BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE HAD THEM.
WE REQUIRED, LIKE JIM SAYING, ELEVATIONS WITH EVERY WINDOW NUMBERED AND THEN CLOSE UPS OF EACH WINDOW TO SHOW THE ONES THAT THEY WANT THE CONDITION OF THEM.
IT HAD A, B, C, D OR 1, 2, 3 I THINK CLASSES.
>> THE CLASSES ARE STILL IN THE WINDOW SURVEY.
>> WE'RE NOT GETTING RID OF THAT.
I'M JUST SHOWING ON THE SLIDES IS JUST THE FIRST PAGE, BUT THERE'S THIS PAGE, ANOTHER PAGE, AND THEN THE ACTUAL WINDOW SURVEY, WHICH HAS THE CHART THAT YOU FILL OUT THAT HAS THE LEVELS OF THE CONDITIONS OF EACH COMPONENT OF THE WINDOW.
>> BUT WE'RE STILL GOING TO REQUIRE DRAWINGS OR PHOTOS, SOMETHING THAT IDENTIFIES.
AS JIM IS SAYING, IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE DOCUMENT THAT GETS SUBMITTED.
THERE'LL BE DRAWINGS OR ELEVATIONS OR PHOTOS THAT SOMEHOW NOTE.
>> YEAH, IT WOULD BE THE PHOTOS.
THEN THE PHYSICAL EVALUATION, IT JUST SAYS FULL FRAME SHOT OF EACH FACADE.
THEN THAT PHYSICAL EVALUATION SECTION IS WHERE THEY WOULD PUT TOGETHER THAT PACKET THAT SHOWS THE COMPREHENSIVE PICTURE OF THE WINDOWS AND THEIR CONDITION.
>> I THINK I HAVE TWO COMMENTS.
SOME WAY A KEY PLAN NEEDS TO BE PROVIDED THAT IDENTIFIES WHERE ALL THE WINDOWS ARE LOCATED UNLESS THE FACADE, THE FULL FRAME SHOT FACADE IS WHAT IDENTIFIES IT.
JUST SOMEHOW IT NEEDS TO BE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY IN HOW THAT'S PRESENTED, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IF WE CAN GO BACK TO THE DEFINITION, THERE'S ONLY ONE WORD THAT I TAKE EXCEPTION TO PREFERABLY.
BUILDING CONTRACTOR OR ENGINEER PREFERABLY WITH HISTORIC PRESERVATION EXPERIENCE, IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY WE CAN TAKE OUT THE WORD PREFERABLY, AND IT JUST SAYS ENGINEER WITH HISTORIC PRESERVATION EXPERIENCE?
>> FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE WERE JUST TRYING TO BE SOMEWHAT FLEXIBLE.
I MEAN, CERTAINLY, IT WOULD BE PREFERABLE, AND THAT IS UP TO THE BOARD.
I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IT SUCH THAT PEOPLE COULD FIND SOMEBODY, WOOD RICE ARCHITECT WAS HERE EARLIER, WOULD YOU GUYS CONSIDER HIM SOMEONE WITH EXPERIENCE.
[00:55:02]
THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED, BUT I THINK IT'S UP TO THE BOARD.MS.SADLER AND I WERE TRYING TO BE FLEXIBLE WITH IT, BUT IT IS COMPLETELY UP TO THE BOARD IF I WAS JUST TRYING NOT TO BE TOO CONSTRUCTIVE.
MS.SADLER AND I DISCUSSED THAT YOU GUYS MIGHT HAVE SOME GOOD SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO TWEAK THAT.
BECAUSE WITH THE PEOPLE THAT COME BEFORE YOU QUITE A BIT, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER THEM PEOPLE WITH HISTORIC PRESERVATION EXPERIENCE.
WE COULD TWEAK IT AND JUST TAKE OUT THE PREFERABLY, OR IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER GUIDANCE.
>> I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO SAY CERTIFIED.
I THINK CERTIFIED WOULD LIMIT US TOO MUCH.
I DON'T KNOW THAT PERSON REALLY EXPERIENCED.
BUT I THINK JUST TAKING OUT THE WORD PREFERABLY I BE OKAY WITH THAT.
>> FOR ME, REALISTICALLY, IT'S GOING TO BE THE REPORT THAT WE GET.
WHO PREPARES IT IS INCIDENTAL TO A GOOD THOROUGH REPORT THAT IDENTIFIES THE CONDITION OF EACH WINDOW, WHERE THEY ARE, GIVES US EVIDENCE IF YOU SAY IT'S BEYOND REPAIR, THEY NEED TO SHOW US EVIDENCE THAT THAT THING'S BEYOND REPAIR.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT MATTERS TO ME SO MUCH WHO PREPARES THAT AS LONG AS IT'S A GOOD REPORT.
>> THE FACT THAT IT SAYS OTHER THAN TO ME, THEY MUST CLARIFYING STATEMENT THERE IS OTHER THAN WINDOW SALES OR MANUFACTURING.
THAT SHOWS THAT WE'RE NOT JUST GOING TO HAVE RAG COME IN AND SAY, IF THESE WINDOWS ARE SHOT, THEY GOT TO BE, WHOLESALE REPLACED.
I'M UP THE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT SURE, WE CAN TAKE PREFERABLY OUT, AND THAT'S NOT A HARD STOP.
IF MARK'S BEEN HERE, SURE, HE MIGHT NOT HAVE DO ON HIS CREDENTIALS, BUT HE'S BEEN HERE A MILLION TIMES.
OR EVEN SOMEBODY FROM A DIFFERENT AREA THAT COMES IN AND REPRESENTS THEM.
I THINK, I'D BE FINE WITH THAT BECAUSE YOU SAID, WE'RE GOING TO BE EVALUATING THE SITE, THE BUILDING, AND THE SURVEY.
>> I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH ALL THAT. I THINK WE NEED SOMETHING TO FALL BACK ON WHEN WE DO HAVE THE SITUATION, AND I'M JUST THINKING LIKE THE CHURCH WINDOW REPLACEMENT THAT WAS A DIFFICULT SITUATION AND WE DIDN'T HAVE GREAT INFORMATION ON THAT, AND WE'D BE ABLE TO FALL BACK ON, A DOCUMENT THAT'S THOROUGH, SO YEAH.
>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM EITHER WITH REMOVING THE WORD.
I THINK THAT SINCE THAT CHURCH EXAMPLE, WE'VE HAD AN AWFUL LOT OF SHARING UP OF OUR PROCESS.
WE'VE ALSO MADE SURE THAT MS.SADLER HAS ACCESS TO THOSE OF YOU ON THE BOARD WHO HAVE THAT EXPERTISE TO WORK WITH THE APPLICANT, IF NECESSARY.
>> I WOULD BE VERY AFRAID. I THINK THAT IF THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THEN I'M FINE WITH REMOVING THE WORD.
>> THEN I'M GOING TO ADD IN A KEY PLAN OR SOME COMPREHENSIVE DOCUMENT THAT LABELS EACH WINDOW IN EACH FACADE AND JUST MAKE SURE EACH FACADE IS REPRESENTED, AND THE WINDOWS ARE NUMBERED IN THAT.
I THINK THAT WAS THE ONLY COMMENT.
I HAVE ANOTHER NOTE HERE ABOUT DOCUMENTATION AND PRESENTATION, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE SAME COMMENT.
SOME COMPREHENSIVE LABELING OF THE WINDOWS IN EACH FACADE, AND THEN REMOVING THE WORD PREFERABLY.
>> MY OTHER QUESTION HERE IS, I LIKE HAVING YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION IN THERE, AND IT'S GOOD THAT IT SAYS 2025.
THIS IS A MOVING DOCUMENT SO IT CAN BE CHANGED.
IF YOU'RE NO LONGER THERE, YOU JUST HAVE TO FLAG THAT SINCE IT DOESN'T JUST SAY PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
>> WHOEVER'S GOING TO TAKE THIS SEAT NEXT, YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE A WINDOW TALK WITH THEM, TOO.
[LAUGHTER] THEN IF YOU WANT TO MAKE AMENDMENTS TO THIS DOCUMENT, THAT WOULD JUST BE ONE OF THEM.
>> TIME OUT SESSION FIRST AND THEN A WINDOW TOP.
>>CAN I ASK A QUESTION REAL QUICK? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE PHOTOS.
ON THE WINDOW SURVEY SHEET ITSELF, IS THERE A WAY THEN TO PUT A PHOTOGRAPH COLUMN ON THERE? THEN YOU HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH NUMBER.
IF THAT HELPS, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT, WHATEVER WINDOW.
>> NO, I HEAR YOU. I DON'T THINK THERE WOULD BE A WAY TO PUT THE PHOTO ACTUALLY IN THAT CHART, WHERE YOU COULD KEY IT IN.
>> YEAH, THE ID NUMBER OF THE PHOTOS.
>> EXACTLY. I THINK YOU GO TO HAVE DIFFERENT [OVERLAPPING].
>> I THOUGHT THAT MEANT WINDOW NUMBER.
>> EACH ONE OF THEM. [OVERLAPPING]
>> I THINK EVERY DESIGN PROFESSIONAL OR EVERY PROFESSIONAL WHO IS GOING TO DO IT SOMEHOW DIFFERENTLY, AND AS LONG AS THEY UNDERSTAND THE FULL INTENT, THAT WE NEED SOMETHING THAT'S COMPREHENSIVE, THEY'LL FIGURE OUT DIFFERENT WAYS.
>> AS LONG AS THEY LABEL THE ELEVATIONS WITH THE CORRECT DIRECTIONS, NOT LIKE STAR MARINE THAT CAME IN AND ALL THE WRONG CORRECTION.
[01:00:04]
>> FOR ME, IF WE DOES HAVE YOUR NAME AND CONTACT INFORMATION.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY DOES IT SAY 2025 IN THERE? IT SAYS, REACH OUT TO INSTRUCT DISTRICT COUNSEL STEF AS [INAUDIBLE] CITY PLANER, 2025.
>> CAUSE SHE'S LEAVING IN 2025.
>> NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE. [LAUGHTER]
>> DOES THAT SOMEHOW LIMIT US IN DATES IT SOMEHOW?
>> WE COULD TAKE THAT OUT. I THINK THAT WAS JUST TO ADDRESS WHAT OUR MEMBER KOSACK WAS SAYING ABOUT HOW IT MIGHT NOT ALWAYS BE ME.
SO THAT 25 CAN TIME STAMPS IT.
IF YOU'RE IN 2025, YOU CAN CALL ME.
BUT I GUESS 2025 IS ALMOST OVER.
>> IF I MAY MADAM CHAIRWOMAN [LAUGHTER].
>> I AGREE WITH TAKING THAT DATE AT THE YEAR OUT OF THAT CONTACT INFORMATION TOO.
>> YEAH. LET'S GO. LET'S DO IT.
>> I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF WORD MISSING UNDER THE PHYSICAL EVALUATION SECTION SPECIFICALLY ON THE CLOSE UP VIEWS.
LIKE THE FIRST ONE, I WAS THINKING ABOUT WHAT ARE WE REALLY SAYING THERE? CLOSE UP VIEWS OF INTERSECTION OF SELL IN THE RECORDS.
I THINK MAYBE IT NEEDS TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE CLOSE UP VIEWS OF INTERSECTION OF WINDOW FRAME AT THE HEAD DREAM AND SELL.
IT'S JUST MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT EXACTLY WHERE THOSE PHOTOS NEED TO BE TAKEN.
THE NEXT ONE, I WROTE CLOSE UP VIEWS OF THE WINDOW, SASHES, TOP RAIL, BOTTOM RAIL, SIDE RAILS, LEADING RAILS.
MEETING THE CHECK RAIL IN THE MUNTINS, IF ANY.
THEN THE LAST ONE IS CLOSE UP VIEWS BE PROVIDED TO THE EXTERIOR AND INTERIOR OF EACH ONE.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION ON ALL OF THESE PHOTOS.
DO WE NEED TO SPECIFY THAT WE ONLY NEED PHOTOS IF IT'S A WINDOW THAT THEY WANT TO REPAIR OR REPLACE? I MEAN, WE DON'T NEED EVERY SINGLE PHOTO IN THE WHOLE PLACE.
>> YEAH, I AGREE. IT'S WHERE WORK IS SCHEDULED.
>> I LIKE THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED THEM TO DO WORK THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO DO.
>> YEAH. BECAUSE THAT'S A LOT OF STUFF EVEN, YOU HAVE A BUILDING WITH 27 WINDOWS EMBEDDED.
>> OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS TO MAKE?
>> IT'S MORE OF A QUESTION. THIS MAY BE MORE OF A THING THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH NEW YORK.
IS WINDOW STORES AND WINDOW SELLS DEFINED DOWN HERE? INSIDE AND OUTSIDE?
>> SO REFERS OUTSIDE AND INSIDE.
>> OKAY. DID YOU GET ALL OF THOSE CHANGES? OR DO YOU NEED MR. POZETTA TO GIVE YOU DOCUMENT WHICH IS 20.
>> YEAH, I WILL GIVE HER THIS.
>> ANY OTHERS THAT YOU FEEL LIKE YOU NEED, WOULD YOU LET THE BOARD MEMBER KNOW?
>> YES. I WILL LISTEN BACK TO THE RECORDING AS I DO ON FRIDAYS AFTER THE HDC MEETING..
IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WAS SAID THAT I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF, I'LL REACH OUT TO THAT BOARD MEMBER.
>> DID WE NEED TO VOTE ON THIS?
>> WELL, I THINK WE CAN BRING IT BACK TO DECEMBER WITH THE FINAL.
>> THAT'S AT THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD, IF YOU JUST WANT A DIRECTOR TO MAKE THEM.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO BRING IT BACK, YOU CAN.
>> IT IS BRINGING IT BACK IN DECEMBER, OKAY WITH EVERYONE?
>> THEN I'LL CHANGE THE HIGHLIGHTING TO THE NEW UPDATED CHANGES.
>> AND SO WE'LL LOSE THE HIGHLIGHTING. THAT'S THERE NOW.
WE HAVE EDITS TO THE HISTORIC DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, AND EVERYBODY HAS GIVEN YOUR EDITS, I'M ASSUMING TO MS.SADLER.
>> I HAVE PRINTED IT OUT SO I CAN MAKE MORE NOTES ON HERE.
BUT I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH MARQUIS, LATIMER AND HALBECK, AND ASKED THEM TO SEE IF THEY WOULD COME BACK FOR ANOTHER ROUND OF EDITS ON THESE DOCUMENTS IN ORDER TO GET THIS DOCUMENT OVER THE FINISH LINE FOR APPROVAL OF THIS BOARD AND THEN THE CITY COMMISSION.
SINCE THEN, I'VE BEEN COMPILING THE PROPOSED EDITS IN AN EXCEL SPREADSHEET SO I CAN DELIVER IT TO THEM.
THEN THEY SAID THEY DO HAVE TIME ON THEIR CALENDAR DECEMBER, JANUARY AND FEBRUARY TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES AND SO I'D BE WORKING FROM THIS EXCEL SPREADSHEET WITH THAT CONSULTANT GROUP TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHANGES ARE IMPLEMENTED IN A WAY THAT WOULD SATISFY THE BOARD WITH THESE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
I THINK AS A WHOLE, THESE ARE AS IS, THEY'RE BETTER THAN WHAT WE'RE WORKING FROM NOW IN TERMS OF A USABILITY AND UNDERSTANDING STANDPOINT.
ANY FURTHER CHANGES WE CAN MAKE THAT WILL IMPROVE IT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW,
[01:05:03]
I THINK IS POSITIVE.I DON'T THINK WE WILL BE ABLE TO GET THIS DOCUMENT OR ANY OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE'RE WORKING FROM TO A POINT WHERE THEY'RE VERY PERFECT.
THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S WRONG WITH THEM.
BUT I'M HOPING AFTER THIS DISCUSSION TONIGHT, WE CAN FINALIZE THIS LIST OF PROPOSED EDITS, AND I CAN START WORKING WITH THE CONSULTANT TO FINISH UP THIS DOCUMENT.
I WILL ALSO SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY CASES ON THE AGENDA FOR DECEMBER SO IF THIS CONVERSATION NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO THEN, I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT AS WELL.
>> DOES ANYONE FEEL THAT YOUR SUGGESTIONS ON THE DOCUMENT HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD?
I KNOW THAT FEW QUESTIONS, REALLY.
DO WE HAVE LIMIT TIME CERTAIN OR DOLLAR CERTAIN? ARE THEY CHARGING US FOR THIS? DOES SOMETHING NEED TO GO TO COMMISSION WHERE ARE WE?
I ASKED HIM FOR A SCOPE OF WORK ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AGO WITH THE DEADLINE OF NOVEMBER 13 FOR HIM TO PROVIDE THE SCOPE OF WORK, AND HE CALLED ME ON THE 13TH AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT, I JUST HAVEN'T GOT YOU THE SCOPE.
>> WHAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IS YOU DON'T SUBMIT SOMETHING AND THEN THEY TURN AROUND AND GIVE US A $30,000 BILL.
>> FIND OUT WHAT YOUR DOLLARS ARE AND THEN HOW THAT ALL GOES TOGETHER.
MY SECOND THING IS, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS SYSTEM, THIS GRAPHIC SYSTEM THAT THEY USE.
>> IN DESIGN. YOU'RE NOT YOU KNOW, 100%, WHATEVER.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT SO IF THEY DO, IS THERE ANY PART OF DESIGN THAT YOU CAN TWEAK? AS THIS IS A LIVING DOCUMENT, DO WE NEED TO TRIAGE WHAT THEY DO THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T DO, IF IT'S IMAGERY OR WHATEVER.
THEN IF THINGS ADJUST MOVING FORWARD, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU GUYS CAN DO IN HOUSE?
>> YOU MEAN AFTER WE ACCEPT IT AS A FINAL DOCUMENT?
>> WE'VE ALWAYS SAID THIS IS A LIVING DOCUMENT.
IT'S ONLY A PDF FORM, OR IT'S ONLY ONLINE.
IT'S NOT A HARD COPY SO WE JUST TWEAK AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS TO ITSELF.
IF WE LET THEM DO NOW THE STUFF THAT WE CANNOT DO OR DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO, AND THEN MOVING FORWARD, IF WE FIND A TYPO.
WHATEVER. THEY'RE NOT DOING SOME OF THE MINUTIA THAT WE COULD DO, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT.
>> IT'S A SIGNIFICANT PROGRAM, AND THERE'S A BIG LEARNING CURVE THERE AND SO I WOULD THINK THE WAY TO MOVE FORWARD IS TO ASK THEM FOR A PROPOSAL TO DO THE WORK, BUT FIND OUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GO AHEAD AND DO THE WORK AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ALL THESE EDITS ARE GOING TO COST.
THEN MAYBE THERE'S SOME NEGOTIATED RATE OR SOMETHING FOR ANY FUTURE SOMETHING.
>> BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT ALL OF US AGREED UPON WERE THE QUALITY OF THE IMAGERY, AND OR OLD IMAGES THAT THEY JUST CUT AND PASTE DID THAT ARE OBSOLETE, SO WE WANT NEW IMAGES? WE DON'T NEED TO PAY THEM TO COME AND SEND A CONSULTANT HERE AND TAKE A PHOTO.
>> IN THIS THING, I SAID I WAS GOING TO SEND THEM PHOTOS.
I'M WORKING ON A LITTLE PHOTO LIBRARY OF DOWNTOWN.
>> DO WE KNOW, AND YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT DO WE KNOW HOW THIS CONSULTANT WAS SELECTED? BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO ARE USING OTHER TECHNIQUES, DEVICES, SOFTWARE, WHATEVER.
>> THAT'D BE LIKE A SCRAP THOUGH.
>> I THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT PROGRAM FOR IT.
BUT IT'S UNLESS THERE'S SOMEONE IN THE CITY THAT'S REALLY COMFORTABLE WITH IT THAT CAN DO IT, AND I'M GOING TO GET THE SENSE THAT THERE PROBABLY ISN'T.
>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE, JUST AS WE LOOK AT BECAUSE WE ARE ALSO GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES AT SOME POINT.
THEY SHOULD LOOK SIMILAR TO EACH OTHER.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK THAT THE CITY IN THE PAST, HAS NOT NECESSARILY BEEN GOOD AT AND NEEDS TO GET BETTER AT IS WHEN WE DO A COMPLETE COST BENEFIT ON A PROJECT.
TO DO THIS PROJECT HAD A COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT, BUT THERE WAS NO UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT WAS GOING TO TAKE TO MAINTAIN THIS PROJECT, THIS DOCUMENT AS WE MOVE FORWARD AND I THINK REGARDLESS OF HOW WE PROCEED WITH THIS, I BELIEVE WE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT FROM THIS VENDOR.
IF WE'RE GOING TO DO ANOTHER SET OF GUIDELINES THAT WE WANT TO LOOK COHESIVE WITH THESE, WHAT'S THE TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP THAT WE'RE INCURRING AS THE CITY WHEN WE SELECT THAT VENDOR.
I'M HOPING THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO GET THAT OUT OF THEM.
[01:10:04]
IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE BEING A LITTLE SLOW RIGHT NOW.BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT BEFORE WE INVEST IN ANY INTERNAL TRAINING TO BE ABLE TO USE THE SYSTEM.
YOU'RE GOOD WITH THAT? EVERYBODY HAS SUBMITTED YOUR EDITS AND CHANGES TO MIA.
NOW, WHEN YOU SAY, MAYBE WE CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IN DECEMBER, WHAT IS THAT DISCUSSION TO AGREE ON ALL THE CHANGES?
>> WE CAN AGREE ON ALL THE CHANGES NOW, IF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE OR WE CAN CONTINUE IT TO DECEMBER.
I WAS JUST THINKING THE REST OF THIS MEETING WAS GOING TO TAKE A WAY LONGER THAN IT DID.
I WAS JUST THINKING WE COULD DO MORE IN DECEMBER, BUT IF WE CAN LOOK AT THEM NOW, OR IF YOU GUYS HAVE ALREADY LOOKED OVER, I CAN ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.
>> HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THEM? ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE?
>> I THINK WE'VE REVIEWED IT SEVERAL TIMES.
>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE SO I BELIEVE THAT WE COULD TAKE A VOTE ON THIS.
>> THEN I CAN PROCEED WITH THE CONSULTANT WITH THIS LIST.
>> BUT I WOULD ALSO LIKE US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FOLLOW UP ON THE COST FOR FUTURE SERVICES FROM THIS BEND.
>> THAT WOULD BE CITY STANDARD. ONCE WE GOT.
>> MISS PEARSON, IF YOU COULD SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE RECORD.
>> ONCE WE GET THE SCOPE WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A CONTRACT AND A COST AND THEN HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE PROCESS LEGAL, MAKE SURE WE HAVE EVERYTHING IN LINE, AND THAT WE HAVE BUDGET AND MONEY AND ALL OF THAT STUFF.
>> I ABSOLUTELY THINK THAT'S GREAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT OUR CURRENT PROCESS AND MAYBE YOU'LL TELL ME I'M WRONG BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENED.
I DON'T THINK THAT OUR CURRENT PROCESS WHEN WE BUDGET ANYTHING, TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION THE TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP.
I THINK IT'S JUST FOR THAT PRODUCT.
IS WHAT THE COST IS, NOT FOR WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST US TO KEEP IT MAINTAINED.
>> IT DEPENDS ON IF THERE IS A PROJECT THAT REQUIRES MAINTENANCE FOR INSTANCE, WHAT THIS DOCUMENT HERE, YOU COULD LOOK AT IT TWO WAYS.
YOU COULD LOOK AT IT AS CONTAINED IN ITSELF AS IT IS, AND THAT THE CITY WOULD CHOOSE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S CHANGED WOULD BE ADDENDUMS. AND THEN THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY COULD DO.
UNLESS YOU WANT THE PHYSICAL DOCUMENT, WITH THAT SOFTWARE UPDATED EVERY TIME, THEN THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE WHO CAN MAINTAIN THAT WHAT SOFTWARE? THAT'S A SEPARATE DISCUSSION THAN THE PRODUCT SO THE PRODUCT WOULD BE A DISCUSSION, THE MAINTENANCE OF IT, IF THAT'S THE WISH OF THE CITY, OR ARE WE GOING TO TRY TO MAINTAIN IT OURSELVES? THERE ARE WAYS TO DO THAT WAS STILL KEEPING THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT INTACT.
>> IT ALMOST LIKE A CAT OF SELF.
>> YOU COULD DO IT THAT WAY AND IT WOULD BE ATTACHED TO IT, BUT IT WOULDN'T EDIT THE FIRST DOCUMENT THAT'S A WAY THAT YOU COULD DO IT.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING YOU MAKE A DECISION ON WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE DOCUMENT AND HOW BIG IS IT AND HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO CHANGE?
>> ALL I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT WE'VE NEVER LOOKED AT IT THAT WAY IN THE PAST, AND WE NEED TO.
>> I THINK ONE OTHER THING, WHEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH THEM, WITH THESE EDITS, WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK BUILT INTO THAT, SO THEY DON'T JUST THINK, WE'VE MADE THESE EDITS, HERE YOU GO.
WE'RE DONE. BECAUSE THEN WE'RE GOING TO GET ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE NEW DOCUMENT WITH THESE AND WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO REFLECT ON THAT AND MAKE ANY FINAL.
HOPEFULLY WE'RE GETTING SMALLER AND SMALLER AND SMALLER, AND WE'RE HONING TO THIS PERFECT THING OR CLOSEST FALL TO YOU THEN TO MANAGE THEIR EXPECTATIONS ON THIS.
>> IT WOULD BE ME WORKING WITH THEM, AND I CAN CALL ANY ONE OF YOU GUYS FOR YOUR EXPERTISE IF I'VE RUN INTO A QUESTION ON ANYTHING.
BUT THEN WOULD THE EXPECTATION BE THAT THE DOCUMENT COMES BACK TO HCC FOR ONE TIME TO LOOK OVER AND THEN THEY MAKE FINAL EDITS?
>> I'M GOING TO SAY THAT WE NEED TO DO IT IN ONE REVIEW.
>> BECAUSE A LOT OF THOSE ITEMS YOU HAVE UP IN THERE IN RED ARE SUBJECTIVE AND WE NEED TO SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH SOLUTION.
>> WE NEED TO COMMIT TO ONE REVIEW AND GET IT DONE, ONE AND DONE.
[01:15:02]
>> I WILL DO MY VERY BEST TO HOLD THEM TO WHAT IS AGREED UPON IN THIS SPREADSHEET.
>> I THINK WHAT I WAS HEARING, CHAIR PHILKOF.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH BECAUSE I SEE THE NEED FOR REGULAR REVISITING GUIDELINES.
AS SOON AS WE PUT THIS THING OUT, THE NEXT PROJECT THAT COMES IN IS GOING TO NOT RELATE TO ANYTHING THAT'S IN THE ENTIRE CODE.
ALWAYS HAPPENS AND MAYBE IF WE COULD PRE NEGOTIATE SOME ANNUAL OF TWO ADD IN A LITTLE BIT HERE.
THAT MIGHT BE A BETTER WAY TO MANAGE HOW WE'RE SPENDING MONEY ON THIS.
>> THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO COMMIT TO SOME HOURLY RATES.
>> IT'S LIKE A WEBSITE MANAGEMENT FEE OR SOMETHING.
>> CHEERFUL CUFF. I MAY JUST SAY SOMETHING.
WE ARE DEALING RIGHT NOW WITH MUNI CODE AND THEY HAVE THEY'RE SET UP THAT WAY WHERE THERE'S TWO STATEMENT OF WORK, THERE IS ONE FOR THE PRODUCT, AND THEN THERE WAS ONE FOR THE RECURRENT FEES FROM YEAR TO YEAR TO YEAR SO WE COULD PROBABLY LOOK AT OUR SCOPE OF WORK WITH MINICO AND TRY TO ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS TO THAT.
>> ALSO REQUIRE THE MANAGEMENT TO AGREE TO THAT LONG TERM SCENARIO.
THEY'VE AGREED TO MINICO SO THAT WOULD BE A MANAGEMENT DISCUSSION THAT WOULD CARRY OVER.
>> THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION WE'RE MAKING.
WE'RE NOT ASKING THAT IT BE DONE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
>> THE ONLY THING I WANT TO SAY IS I COULD HAVE LEARNED IN DESIGN BY NOW, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO TAKE THIS LONG [LAUGHTER]
>> HERE WE GO. [LAUGHTER] YOU BETTER START LEARNING NOW BECAUSE THERE'S ALL THAT.
>> THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE THEN I COULD LEARN, AND THEN I COULD DO THE ANNUAL TO GO TO COMMISSION.
>> NEXT ON OUR AGENDA THEN ARE THE STAFF APPROVALS.
>> CAN I JUST SAY GOT IN GO ON 126 SOUTH SIX CHIMNEYS?
>> THAT'S THE ONE I WAS GOING TO TALK.
>> I GET. THEY'RE ALREADY REPAIRED.
>> ARE THEY DROVE BY. THEY LOOK GREAT.
>> HE WAS PUSHING AND THEY ARE SPECIAL CHIMNEYS AND I MEAN, THEY LOOK FABULOUS.
>> WONDERFUL. FABULOUS SO UNDER GOOD.
>> WE KEPT THE EG MONT HOTEL LIVE A LITTLE BIT LONGER.
>>THAT TEAM IS IT. I WANTED TO TELL MR. ROLAND, THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, MR. ROLAND. THANK YOU.
>> HE OWNS THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR.
WE'RE AROUND THE CORNER. WE'RE HE DOESN'T OWN THE HOUSE THAT THE SHED IS THAT WE JUST LOOKED AT?
>> I THOUGHT HE OWNED ALL THREE OF THOSE?
>> NO, I WAS VERY EXCITED TO SEE THOSE CHIMNEYS, AND THEY WERE THEY WERE DOING THE ROOF WORK TODAY, SO.
>> WE HAD TEN STAFF APPROVED COAS IN SEPTEMBER AND FIVE IN OCTOBER.
>> THEN HE SAYS, THEY'RE FINE.
>> THEN WE HAVE A SURPRISE AGENDA ITEM.
I GOT TO TAKE A TRIP OUT TO THE MAINTENANCE YARD, AND KATHY SABATINI SHOWED ME THIS HORSE TROUGH.
>> IT'S BEEN SITTING IN JUST A SHED AT THE MAINTENANCE YARD SINCE I GUESS THIS PARKING LOT WAS RECONFIGURED AND NOW, WITH THE WATERFRONT PARK HAPPENING AND THE WORK NEAR BRETT'S, I'M JUST WONDERING IF THE BOARD WANTS TO HAVE SOME DISCUSSION OR OFFER SOME GUIDANCE ON WHERE THE CITY COULD PUT THIS.
>> I SHOULD GO WHERE THE BOAT TRAILER PARKING IS.
>> IT WAS AT THE CITY HALL PARKING LOT AND SOMEONE HERE.
>> SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE MORE INFORMATION I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR THIS STORY THAT I HAD HEARD ABOUT THIS AND ABOUT THE FOUNTAIN IN FRONT OF THE DEPOT.
FIRST OF ALL, MR. DURER WHO WAS THE FIRST CUSTOMS OFFICER IN FERNANDINA, THE BUILDING FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE MARINA RESTAURANT, WAS HIS BUILDING.
MISSES DREAI, DIDN'T MUCH CARE FOR PEOPLE, BUT SHE LOVED ANIMALS SO THE FOUNTAIN THAT'S IN FRONT OF THE DEPOT, SHE DONATED, AND IT WAS FOUND BY
[01:20:02]
THE RESTORATION COMMITTEE OUT SOMEWHERE ON THE FORT GROUNDS.I BELIEVE THIS HORSE TROUGH WAS, AS WELL.
>> THIS IS THE PLAQUE THAT'S ON THE HORSE TROUGH.
>> IT WAS RESTORED BY THE EMILIA ISLAND FERNDINA RESTORATION.
>> NO, SEE, PEOPLE HAVE SPENT MONEY AND CARED ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
THEY'VE JUST SAT SO I DEFINITELY THINK THAT HORSE TROUGH NEEDS TO BE SOMEWHERE AND THE CARRIAGE STEP.
>> THOSE ARE WERE THOSE FROM FAMILIES HOME?
>> I THINK THOSE WERE WITH THE HORSE TROUGH SO SOMEONE COULD GET OFF THEIR HORSE ONTO THE STEPS TO GET THAT.
>> THAT SHOULD BE INCORPORATED FOR SURE WITH INFORMATION.
>> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE DESIGN FOR THE WATERFRONT PARK HAS COME UP WITH A PLAYGROUND NOW, WHICH HAS NOT BEEN BROUGHT HERE.
>> I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THAT'S AN ELEMENT OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> THAT MEANS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE REVIEWED BY THE HDC.
>> THE WHOLE PARK IS PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> THE WHOLE PARK IS PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> THE CIRCLE WHERE THE PLAY EQUIPMENT IS GOING WAS SHOWN ON THE PLANES THAT ARE APPROVED BY THE HDC, SO IT'S JUST GOING TO BE CONTAINED INTO THAT CIRCLE.
>> BUT THERE WERE NO STRUCTURES SHOWN.
>> I HAVE FOUGHT THIS BATTLE SINCE I MOVED TO FERNANDINA, AND THAT WAS WAY LONG TIME AGO.
I FOUGHT IT WHEN I WAS ON THE COMMISSION.
I FOUGHT IT WHEN I WAS DOING MAIN STREET, AND I'M FIGHTING IT AGAIN NOW.
THE CITY HAS BROKEN THE RULES IN THE PAST ABOUT ANYTHING THAT SHOULD COME TO HDC.
THEY HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT ABOUT BREAKING THE RULES.
THEY USE THE EXCUSE THAT THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE.
I'M NOT GOING TO BE THE PERSON OR ANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THE PERSON THAT APPROVES THAT SOMETHING IS SAFE.
WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE CRA OR THE HDC BELONGS TO THIS BOARD.
I DO NOT THINK THAT SAYING IT'S A PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE OF PLAYGROUND.
>> THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
>> SPECIFICALLY, THEY'RE PROCURING BENCHES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE NOW FOR THAT PARK.
>> I THOUGHT WE HAD GOTTEN PAST THIS WHEN WE NO LONGER HAD AN ENGINEER WHO WAS THE ACTING CITY MANAGER.
I THOUGHT WE HAD GOTTEN PAST IT.
I'M GOING ON RECORD AS NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF YOU FEEL ABOUT IT.
WE DON'T ALLOW PRIVATE CITIZENS WHO COME BEFORE US, AND I'LL USE GREG ROLAND'S CHIMNEYS AS AN EXAMPLE.
WE DON'T ALLOW THEM TO DESTROY SOMETHING, NOR DO WE ALLOW THEM TO PUT SOMETHING UP THAT'S NOT COHESIVE WITH OUR SPHERE.
WHY WOULD WE DO IT WITH THE CITY? MISS PRINCE, IS THERE A REASON FOR THAT?
>> NO. I'VE ACTUALLY SPOKEN WITH MR. AKAMOV ABOUT IT, THE CAPITAL PROJECTS MANAGER.
I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE WATERFRONT MATTERS HAD NOT COME TO THIS BOARD.
IT HAS BEEN BEFORE THIS BOARD ONCE.
>> THE PARK HAS BEEN BEFORE THE BOARD A COUPLE OF TIMES.
>> JUST AS THIS BUILDINGS THAT ARE GOING UP NOW.
>> A LAYOUT WAS SHOWN THAT SOMEDAY THIS COULD BE A PLAYGROUND.
>> WHAT WAS PRESENTED WAS NOT A HYPOTHETICAL, BUT THEY HAD THAT WORLD OR GLOBE OR WHATEVER.
>> THAT IS NOT IT ANYMORE AT ALL.
>> THIS IS NOT WHAT'S GOING IN THERE, BUT IN THE FUTURE, SOMETHING MIGHT GO IN THERE.
THAT GIVES THE ASSUMPTION THAT IF WHEN THERE'S SOMETHING DECIDED, IT DOES COME BACK TO THE BOARD TO LOOK AT IT.
WE LOOKED AT SO MANY OTHER DETAILS OF THAT PART, FENCING, TO TIMBERS, TO METAL FASTENERS.
>> IF IN FACT, THE CITY HAS DECIDED THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO REVIEW ANYTHING THE CITY DOES THEN WE NEED TO HEAR THAT FROM THE COMMISSION OR THE CITY MANAGER OR SOMEBODY.
[01:25:01]
BECAUSE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE BEFORE.IT HAS HAPPENED THAT IT WAS BEING DONE WITHOUT APPROVAL BUT THAT WAS NEVER OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR ROLE WAS.
IF IT'S CHANGED, HELP US, EDUCATE US.
>> I'M GOING TO ADD ONE TINY HISTORY LESSON TO THIS.
WHEN THE CITY DECIDED THAT WE DIDN'T NEED TO KNOW THAT ANYTHING WAS CHANGING OVER HERE IN THE PARKING LOT, EVEN WITH THESE HISTORIC STRUCTURES, AND THEY WANTED TO ADD SIX OR SEVEN PARKING SPOTS, ALL OF A SUDDEN, WHERE'S THE HORSE TROUGH?
>> BECAUSE THE HORSE TROUGH MEANS NOTHING TO A PERSON WHO'S FOCUSING ON INFRASTRUCTURE.
THE HORSE TROUGH MEANS SOMETHING TO THOSE OF US WHO FOCUS ON THE COMMUNITY'S HISTORY.
>> IF I OVERSTEP IN OUR BOUNDS, THEN SOMEBODY NEEDS TO COME TELL US THAT.
>> I CAN RELAY THAT MESSAGE TO GLENN.
MARGARET AND I CAN DISCUSS IT, AND WE'LL GET AN ANSWER EITHER WAY TO THE BOARD.
>> YES. I HAVE SPOKEN WITH MR. AKAMOV, AND I BELIEVE I'VE SPOKEN WITH MISS CAMPBELL AS WELL.
A LOT OF TIMES IT JUST GETS THROUGH AND NOT ALL OF US KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT THERE IS NO EXEMPTION AT THIS TIME.
THERE MIGHT BE INDIVIDUAL EXEMPTIONS.
THE SPEED LIMIT SIGN OR A STOP SIGN.
THERE ARE CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS THAT MAY NOT HAVE TO COME BEFORE THIS BOARD.
THEN WE COULD SPEAK WITH EVEN JUST UPDATING YOU, IF THERE WAS AN EXEMPTION AND JUST UPDATING, THERE WAS AN EXEMPTION TO THIS AND THIS IS SIMPLY WHAT WE'RE DOING.
>> WELL, I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT THIS IS HOW WE LOST SIDEWALK TILES FROM 1905 ON ATLANTIC AVENUE AS WELL.
LITTLE BITS OF OUR HISTORY HAVE BEEN CHIPPED AWAY AND CHIPPED AWAY WITH THE EXCUSE THAT IT'S PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET A HISTORIC DISTRICT HERE AND A COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS STILL BEING FOLLOWED.
WELL, THAT APPLIES TO ALL OF US.
YOU'RE GOING TO FIND OUT AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME PERSON WITH AUTHORITY COME TELL US IF WE'RE WRONG.
NOT THAT YOU DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY BUT NOT THE KIND I'M LOOKING FOR. NEXT ITEM.
>> NEXT ITEM IS THE PECK CENTER NATIONAL REGISTER FOR HISTORIC PLACES NOMINATION. I SUBMITTED THEM.
I DRAFT OF THE NOMINATION IN AUGUST AND RECEIVED COMMENTS IN THE SECOND WEEK OF OCTOBER AS I WAS HEADED OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
THEN CAME BACK TO OPEN A FIVE PAGE DOCUMENT OF COMMENTS, WHICH I WAS INTIMIDATED AT THE MOMENT.
THEN WHEN MISS MCKENNA TAMI CAME ONTO THE TEAM, I TOLD HER I HAVE THIS BIG PROJECT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON, AND I FEEL LIKE I HIT A WALL ON IT.
SHE SET UP A MEETING WITH DOCTOR KIRA LUCAS AND ANDREW WEBER, WHO REVIEWED MY NOMINATION, AND WE HAD A GOOD HOUR LONG MEETING WITH THEM WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT WHAT WAS GOOD ABOUT THE NOMINATION AND WHAT NEEDED IMPROVEMENTS, AND THEY GAVE US AN OUTLINE TO FOLLOW TO REALLY BREAK APART AND WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT EXACTLY WITH THE WINDOWS AND KEYING THAT STRUCTURE AND SAYING, THIS IS THE 1920S BUILDING.
HERE'S THE GYM, HERE'S THE FIELD, AND PULL OUT EACH PIECE OF THAT PROPERTY AND EXPLAINING ITS OWN SIGNIFICANCE IN THAT CASE, AS WELL AS SOME MORE GUIDANCE ON HOW TO DEFINE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF DR.
PECK AND FRAME THAT IN THE WHOLE DESEGREGATION, AS WELL AS EQUALIZATION MOVEMENT OF THAT TIME.
I HAVE SOME MORE WIND UNDER MY WINGS FOR THE NOMINATION, AND MCKENNA IS GOING TO HELP ME ALONG WITH THAT, TOO.
>> DID THEY GIVE YOU ANY DEADLINE, LIKE, A WINDOW FOR RESUBMISSION, OR IS THAT JUST UP TO YOU?
>> I THINK IT'S UP TO ME. I TALKED TO THEM ABOUT US TAKING ANOTHER CRACK AT IT AND FOLLOWING THEIR ADVICE THE BEST WE COULD AND ADDRESSING AS MANY COMMENTS AS WE CAN, AND MAKE IT AN ITERATIVE PROCESS.
THEY EXPLAINED TO ME THAT THEY GET NOMINATIONS.
THEY CALL THEM MOM AND POP NOMINATIONS.
SINCE THERE'S NO QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENT FOR PEOPLE TO SUBMIT NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATIONS, THEY GET PEOPLE FROM ALL ACROSS THE BOARD WHO SUBMIT NOMINATIONS.
A LOT OF TIMES THEY'LL TAKE THEM OVER.
[01:30:02]
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE SUBMISSION, AND THEN THE DHR WILL PUT IT TOGETHER.I DIDN'T ASK THEM TO DO THAT FOR ME.
THEY SAID I COULD DO IT MYSELF, SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THAT.
BUT I ASKED THEM IF I COULD SEND THEM ANOTHER DRAFT AND HAVE THEM WORK ON IT IN TANDEM WITH ME.
I THINK THAT'LL BE HELPFUL AS WELL.
>> DO YOU HAVE A DATE IN MIND THAT YOU'D LIKE TO BE FINISHED WITH IT?
>> WITH THE DRAFT, IT'S NOVEMBER.
I'D PROBABLY TAKE THREE MONTHS TO PUT TOGETHER ANOTHER DRAFT WITH ALL THE INFORMATION THEY REQUESTED.
>> I WILL SAY THAT DR. LUCAS DID PROVIDE US WITH A DOCUMENT OF A PREVIOUS NOMINATION FORM AND HELPED US OUTLINE, SPECIFICALLY ON THE FORM, WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AND HELPED US OUT IN THAT WAY.
>> GOOD. HAS ANYBODY INTRODUCED, MATT?
I'M THE NEW PLANNING TECHNICIAN.
>> THANKS FOR YOUR HELP ON THIS.
>> SORRY FOR US. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
>> MADAM CHAIRWOMAN, IF I MAY.
>> I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE COULD ALSO SPEAK WITH MISS LAURIN JACOBS, BECAUSE SHE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH THESE COMPLEX APPLICATIONS THAT TAKE A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND REQUIRE A LOT OF INFORMATION FOR SUBMITTAL.
SHE MIGHT BE A GOOD RESOURCE AS WELL.
>> SHE'S ALWAYS WORKING ON SIMILAR THINGS AND PASSIONATE ABOUT THAT.
VERY PASSIONATE. SHE MIGHT BE A GOOD RESOURCE FOR YOU AS WELL.
>> THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT FOR STAFF REPORT, AND I KNOW MISS PRINCE WOULD LIKE TO UPDATE YOU GUYS ON THAT TOPIC.
>> YES. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIRMAN.
ANOTHER THOUGHT TOO ON THE HDC CONCERN THAT WAS JUST RAISED.
I HAVE SPOKEN WITH MISS CAMPBELL, AND ONE THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT RECENTLY, AS I WAS DRAFTING AN EMAIL TO HER, IT MADE ME REMEMBER THESE THAT WE WOULD COME UP WITH A CHART FOR STAFF, THINGS THAT REQUIRE HDC APPROVAL, THINGS THAT REQUIRE BOA APPROVAL TO HELP VARIOUS STAFF AND DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE MOVING FORWARD WITH PROJECTS AND MAYBE DON'T EVEN CONSIDER IT, DEPENDING ON WHAT LEVEL OF APPROVAL IT NEEDS, DOES IT EVER EVEN MAKE IT UP TO MISS CAMPBELL'S OFFICE? THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF SOME DISCUSSIONS FROM A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.
I'M NOT SURE WE FOLLOWED UP ON THAT, BUT THAT WAS AN IDEA OF JUST CREATING A CHART.
THAT IS ONE WAY THAT WE ARE MOVING TOWARDS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THE CITY COMPLIES WITH ALL VARIOUS BOARD REQUIREMENTS, WHETHER IT'S TRC APPROVAL, WHETHER IT'S BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS APPROVAL OR THE HDC WOULD CERTAINLY BE IMPORTANT.
IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.
THE OTHER MATTER WAS THE PAID PARKING SIGNS WERE TAKEN OFF WERE CONTINUED TO DECEMBER.
WE HAVE BEEN SERVED WITH A LAWSUIT OVER PAID PARKING.
THAT WAS ONE REASON WE CONTINUED IT BECAUSE THE LAWSUIT IS SLOWING THE PROCESS DOWN, AND IT WAS GOING TO GIVE US MORE TIME TO REVIEW IT.
THIS MIGHT BE A SENSITIVE TOPIC TO BRING UP.
I WAS ALMOST NOT GOING TO BRING IT UP, BUT SINCE SHE HAD CITY ATTORNEY UPDATE, I'M GOING TO.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE LOOKING AT, AND I'M GOING TO DUCK WHEN I SAY THIS IS, ARE THEY THE TYPE OF SIGN THAT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRE YOUR APPROVAL, BUT WOULD SIMPLY REQUIRE THAT WE UPDATE YOU, LET YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IS IT A ENFORCEMENT SIGN, LIKE A STOP SIGN OR A SPEED LIMIT SIGN? THAT QUESTION HAS BEEN RAISED, AND STAFF HAS BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT IT, AND I'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT IT TO SEE NOW THAT THE CONCEPT WOULD STILL BE TO BRING IT TO YOU.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU WOULD NEVER HEAR OF IT.
BUT A QUESTION WAS RAISED TO ME, IS IT A DIRECTIONAL SIGN? IS IT SOME SIGN THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE HDC APPROVAL BECAUSE WE'RE MANDATED? WHEN IT DOES COME TO YOU ON EITHER FRONT, WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO APPROVE IT OR JUST BE INFORMED OF IT, WE PLAN TO HAVE ONE PARKING HERE BECAUSE AS YOU CAN UNDERSTAND, THIS IS AN ENFORCEMENT.
WE HAVE TO HAVE ENOUGH SIGNS THAT PEOPLE DO NOT STATE, I DIDN'T KNOW. I DIDN'T SEE IT.
THERE IS THAT ELEMENT OF REQUIRED ENFORCEMENT.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MIKE TOTIN, WITH ONE PARKING WHO DOES THE ENFORCEMENT IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS HERE, SO THAT IF YOU DID HAVE IDEAS OF WHAT MIGHT BE BETTER OR LOOK BETTER OR, THAT HE COULD HELP EDUCATE US WITH HIS EXPERIENCE OF ENFORCEMENT.
THAT WAS SIMPLY THE UPDATE, IS THAT WE'RE POSTPONING IT, TO BE A LITTLE MORE PREPARED, UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR ROLE WILL BE IF WE DO BELIEVE THERE'S SOME EXEMPTION PRESENTING IT TO YOU,
[01:35:02]
SO YOU SEE IT AND CAN UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE STATING IT.THEN ALSO HAVING SOMEONE HERE BECAUSE THEY DO INTEND TO BRING IT TO YOU AND GET YOUR INPUT AND COMMENTS AND SOMEONE THAT COULD HELP GUIDE US WITH MAKING SURE WE ARE ENFORCING BECAUSE, THERE ENFORCEMENT CONCERNS.
WE HAVE TO HAVE ENOUGH SIGNAGE IN ORDER TO ENFORCE. THAT WAS THE UPDATE.
BUT OVERALL, THERE IS A LAWSUIT.
WE'RE HAVING AN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON DECEMBER 2ND AT 4:00 PM.
BY YOUR NEXT MEETING, I'LL HAVE ANOTHER UPDATE ON IT.
>> ESPECIALLY WHEN I HEAR THE TERMINOLOGY BEING TAGGED ONTO THEM NOW THE FIRST THING THAT I THINK IS, ALL RIGHT, THIS IS THE WAY THEY'RE JUST GOING TO CIRCUMVENT THE HDC.
YOU HAD SOME COMMENTS EARLIER ABOUT PAST ADMINISTRATIONS AND HOW THEY VIEWED THE HDC.
I THINK IT'S NOT RIGHT TO LOOK AT THIS BOARD AS SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO GO AROUND OR GET AWAY WITH, AVOID.
WE CAN HELP BRING UP CONCEPTS AND IDEAS THAT LIKE YOU SAY, MAYBE THE PROVIDER DIDN'T THINK OF SOMETHING.
COMING IN AND PRESENTING TO US AND SOLICITING SOME OF OUR INPUT, MIGHT GET US A BETTER PRODUCT THAN OTHERWISE WE MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN.
BY JUST LOOKING FOR WAYS TO CIRCUMVENT THIS BOARD ALL THE TIME, YOU'RE MISSING OUT ON AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET SOME VALUABLE INPUT.
>> THERE'S A SENSE THAT WE WILL SLOW THEM DOWN.
>> SOMETIMES THINGS NEED TO BE SLOWED DOWN A LITTLE BIT WHEN THEY'RE OUT OF CONTROL.
NOW, I'M NOT SAYING THAT ABOUT ANYTHING THAT'S GOING ON THIS MINUTE IN TIME.
BUT I AM SAYING THAT I BELIEVE THE CITY, SEES THIS BOARD AS A BARRIER TO FAST ACTION.
NOW, I WILL ALSO SAY THAT WHEN I WAS DOING MAIN STREET, I HAD TO BRING ALL THOSE SIGNS FROM DOWNTOWN IN HERE TO GET APPROVAL.
I WASN'T SURPRISED AND I WASN'T UPSET.
I KNEW IT WAS WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO BECAUSE IT DETERMINES WHAT DOWNTOWN LOOKS LIKE.
NOW WHAT I HAVE NOTICED, IS THAT NOW THERE'S A PARKING ARROW SIGN THAT'S GREEN THAT DOESN'T MATCH THE SIGNAGE AT ALL.
IT'S POINTING DOWN A STREET WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY PARKING.
IT'S POINTING TWO WAYS ON CENTER STREET.
THEN THERE'S ANOTHER SIGN THAT'S GREEN FOR THE LIBRARY BECAUSE I GUESS THE SIGN THAT SAYS THIS IS THE LIBRARY IS NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR THEM.
WELL, GET ONE THAT'S THE SAME COLOR AT LEAST, BUT NONE OF THAT WAS BROUGHT HERE.
NOW, SAYING THAT THE LIBRARY SIGN, IS AN ENFORCEMENT SIGN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS CRAZY.
IT'S ALREADY ON A SIGN, AND NOW WE ADDED ANOTHER ONE WITHOUT ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT IT IN HERE.
WE ADDED A PARKING SIGN THAT'S ACTUALLY WRONG, WITHOUT ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT IT IN HERE.
IF THIS COMMUNITY VALUES OUR HISTORY, THEN THEY HAVE TO VALUE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
LOTS OF MONEY GOT SPENT ON THOSE SIGNS DOWNTOWN.
LOTS OF TIME SPENT WITH DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS AND ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS INVOLVED BEFORE THOSE SIGNS WENT IN.
NOW WE'RE JUST THROWING UP LITTLE SIGNS HERE AND THERE THAT MAKE IT START TO LOOK LIKE YAZOO CITY, MISSISSIPPI, AGAIN.
IT'S NOT LOOKING LIKE FERNANDINA, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE THINGS.
THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO BRING UP IS THAT THERE'S AN ADVERTISING SIGN THAT'S TACKED OR NAILED OR WHATEVER TO THE FENCE AT HOYT HOUSE.
>> WE NEED TO ENFORCE THOSE THINGS.
WHERE IS CODE ENFORCEMENT? NONE OF THIS WORKS UNLESS WE'RE ALL WORKING TOGETHER ON THE SAME TEAM, AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
>> WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
AS I SAID, I HAVE SPOKEN WITH MISS CAMPBELL ABOUT IT.
I'VE SPOKEN WITH GLYNN AKRAMOV ABOUT IT.
THE INTENT IS TO GET ON THE RIGHT TRACK, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT NEEDS TO COME, CREATE THAT CHART.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR VALID CONCERNS OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT, BUT I KNOW THIS CURRENT A LOT OF US ARE BRAND NEW HERE AND WE'RE JUST, GLYNN NEW.
I'M NEW. I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF INTENT THERE. I UNDERSTAND.
[01:40:06]
>> LESS INTENTE THAN THERE USED TO BE.
>> I THINK THE KEY IS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE COLLABORATIVE.
WE ARE REALLY HERE FOR THE BEST REASONS.
SOME OF THE GUYS AND DOING DIFFERENT THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE.
THEY'LL COME TO US INDIVIDUALLY BECAUSE THEY KNOW, THAT'S TREES, GOT TO TAMMY OR WHATEVER.
WE SAVED TWO TREES ON THE SECOND STREET BEFORE THEY EVEN CAME TO THIS BOARD BECAUSE THEY KNEW WE'D RAISE ALL KINDS OF STUFF.
THEY WENT THE BACK WAY TO WORK THROUGH IT.
THAT'S FINE, BUT WE ALL HAVE TO BE ON THE SAME TEAM.
LIKE ARLENE IS SAYING, WE'RE NOT JUST HERE TO HARD STOP EVERYTHING.
I REALLY WANT TO BE HERE TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.
>> BUT I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU ONE MORE EXAMPLE FROM THE PAST.
>> WHAT THERESA SAID. I'M NEW TOO, AND I KNOW THAT I HAVE BEEN IN SOME OF THE MEETINGS, AND I KNOW THAT MANAGEMENT, THE CURRENT MANAGEMENT ALL IS REALLY TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS HELPING ALL THE DEPARTMENTS UNDERSTAND BECAUSE SOME OF THEM DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT ROLES OR WHAT BOARDS THEY NEED TO GO TO.
THE MEETINGS I'VE BEEN IN, IT HAS BEEN VERY POSITIVE.
IT'S NOT THAT SENSE THAT DON'T WANT TO COME.
>> GOOD, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THAT TO HAVE AN UPDATE THAT SAYS WE'RE TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER WE HAVE TO BRING PARKING SIGNS TO YOU OR NOT, IS A LITTLE UNNERVING.
>> WELL, THAT I DID NOT CLEARLY SPEAK ON THAT MATTER.
THEY ARE GOING TO BRING IT TO YOU 100%.
>> INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE PLAYGROUND.
I WILL TELL YOU ONE QUICK STORY, AND THEN MR. AMBER IS HERE, AND I'M SURE HE'S WAITING FOR THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION.
WHEN I WAS DOING MAIN STREET AND WE STARTED WORKING ON THE BUTTERFLY GARDEN, WE WANTED TO USE CENTER STREET BRICKS FOR THE BUTTERFLY GARDEN.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT WE HAD TO DO TO GET THEM? REX LESTER HAD BURIED SOME OUT AT THE YARD TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM USING THEM TO FILL IN POTHOLES AND ROAD SITUATIONS.
PLANNING STAFF AND I WENT OUT THERE AND DUG UP, DID ALL THOSE BRICKS, BECAUSE THE CITY SAID IT WASN'T THEIR JOB.
THAT'S WHAT THEY THINK OF THEIR HISTORY.
WE GOT SOMEBODY TO DO THE DONATED WORK TO PUT THEM DOWN AS A PATH.
THERE AREN'T ANY MORE OF THOSE BRICKS AROUND.
THERE AREN'T ANY MORE HORSE TROUGHS AROUND.
THEY'RE THE LAST ONES WE HAVE.
I DON'T WANT TO BE MY NAME ASSOCIATED WITH.
THEY VOTED TO GET RID OF THE LAST THING WE HAVE.
>> BACK TO THE PAID PARKING SIGNS, IT WAS ALWAYS THE INTENT TO BRING IT TO YOU AND MUCH LIKE THE ATLANTIC SEAFOOD.
THERE WAS AN UNSAFE STRUCTURE.
THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A TECHNICALITY THAT, MAYBE IF IT WAS AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, BUT THE CITY, AGAIN, KNEW IT WAS IMPORTANT, BROUGHT IT BEFORE YOU AND LISTENED TO YOU TONIGHT, WHICH IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF EVEN THOUGH THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN EXEMPTION, THEY STILL BROUGHT IT TO YOU.
THAT WAS MORE OF WHAT I WAS SAYING. [OVERLAPPING]
>> WITH THE PARKING SIGNS, IS THAT.
>> I UNDERSTAND. WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHEN.
>> IT'S DEFINITELY COMING TO YOU.
>> WHEN COMMENTS ARE MADE LIKE, HOW CAN WE NOT GO TO HDC? HOW CAN WE AVOID THAT? I'VE HEARD THAT MORE TIMES THAN I CARE TO MENTION.
BUT, IS EVERYBODY UP HERE DONE? I'M DONE.
>> JUST WANT TO ONE THING, THE WHOLE WITH THE SIGNAGE AND THAT SPECIFIC SIGN THAT YOU REFERENCED ON THAT FENCE? I WILL TELL YOU OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, I'VE CALLED CODE ENFORCEMENT A FEW TIMES.
TO JUST SAY THE REASON WHY I CALLED IS BECAUSE I PUT A LITTLE GOOFY SIGN UP THAT SAID CAT CROSSING IN FRONT OF MY PROPERTY 'CAUSE MY CAT USED TO LIKE TO SLEEP IN THE STREET.
BUT THAT BEING SAID, AND CODE ENFORCEMENT CAME DOWN AND SAID I HAD TO REMOVE THE SIGN.
I SAID, WELL, WHY DO I HAVE TO REMOVE MY SIGN WHEN I LOOK UP AND DOWN THE STREET AND THERE'S SIGNS ALL AND THERE'S REAL ESTATE SIGNS AND CONSTRUCTION SIGNS, NOBODY HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THOSE.
[01:45:01]
THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT YOUR CAT CROSSING SIGN.THEY SAID THEY ONLY GO AFTER IT.
>> SO A QUESTION, MIA, YOU SAID THERE'S NO CASES FOR DECEMBER AND ENTRY.
YOU SAID THAT YOU'RE BRINGING PAID PARKING?
>> YEAH, I THOUGHT WE CONTINUED PAID PARKING TO DECEMBER, WE DIDN'T?
>> WELL, YOU WITHDREW IT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT TO A DATE CERTAIN BECAUSE WE WEREN'T SURE WITH THE LAWSUIT IF IT WAS COME SO YES, MISS PEARSON IS CORRECTING ME.
WE HAD A REALLY LONG CONVERSATION. DO WE CONTINUE IT? DO WE HAVE YOU TABLE IT? DO WE BRING IT TO YOU TONIGHT AND HAVE YOU CONTINUE IT TO DECEMBER? SINCE THE LAWSUIT WAS OUT THERE, WE DID DECIDE TO TECHNICALLY WITHDRAW IT.
BUT THE THOUGHT WAS DECEMBER BUT I GUESS WE MISSED THAT DEADLINE, SO THAT IT WOULD BE JANUARY.
>> THAT HELPS ME, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
ONE OTHER THING I JUST WANT TO THROW UP TO THE BOARD TO THINK ABOUT.
TONIGHT, WE HAD THE TONY FERRERAS HOUSE, THE 232 SOUTH 7.
WE BASICALLY HAD A HISTORIC GARAGE THAT HAD BEEN APPROVED FOR DEMO AND HAD BEEN APPROVED TO BE REPLACED WITH AN ADU.
FRANKLY, WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TONIGHT I THINK IS FAR BETTER THAN THAT ADU THAT WE LOOKED AT TWICE.
THEY REVISED IT FROM THE FIRST TIME, IT WAS THAT BIG, MASSIVE TWO STORY STRUCTURE OUT OF THE STREET.
>> THEY SOFTENED IT A LITTLE BIT AND PUSHED IT BACK, WAS BETTER.
I WAS ALWAYS A LITTLE BIT HESITANT ABOUT IT BECAUSE, I'LL SAVE EVERY NAIL THAT COMES OUT OF A HOUSE.
IF THERE WAS A WAY THAT THAT CUTE GARAGE, EVEN IF IT WAS THE FACADE OF THE GARAGE WAS SAVED, NOW THAT IT'S LIKE A SHED, HOW GREAT WOULD THAT SHED HAVE LOOKED WITH THE ORIGINAL FRONT? I FEEL LIKE, WE LOST ANOTHER PIECE OF HISTORY SO THEY COULD PUT UP A FRICKING SHED.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A WORK AROUND.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS INTENTIONAL, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE PAST.
WE LOST THE SISTER HOUSE. THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING.
WE HAVE A VACANT FALLOW PIECE OF LAND WHERE A HOUSE COULD HAVE BEEN EASILY REDONE.
WE WE ALMOST LOST ARTHA'S GARAGE.
WE APPROVED THAT, AND LUCKILY THAT DEAL FELL THROUGH. THAT'S STILL UP.
HOW DO WE ADD SOME TEETH AND THIS WOULD BE THROUGH ORDINANCE AFTER DISCUSSION WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IF WE GRANT A DEMO, IS THAT ONLY GRANTED WITH A PRE-APPROVED SET OF PLANS OR CONTINGENT UPON THEM GETTING A PERMIT.
THEY CAN'T DEMO, AND THEN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
>> IN THE GUIDELINE SOMEWHERE.
>> MIA, WHAT WE'D ASK YOU TO DO THEN IS TO TALK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY TO SEE IF WE CAN PUT SUCH LANGUAGE IN THAT SAYS YOU MUST SHOW WHAT YOUR PLAN IS AFTER DEMO.
>> AND THEN WHAT THOUGH, YOU KNOW.
>> UNFORTUNATELY, IN THAT CASE, THAT 232 SOUTH 7, THEY HAD THEIR PLAN.
>> THEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY DON'T DO WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO? WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR ALTERNATIVES ARE IN THAT CASE.
IF YOU COULD FIND THAT OUT WITH MISS PEARSON? GOOD. MR. AMBER.
YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, SIR? [LAUGHTER]
>> JACK AMBER 1003 BROOM STREET FOR DINA BEACH.
I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS MEETING MORE THAN YOU KNOW.
I APPRECIATE MADAM CHAIRS WISDOM AND EXPERIENCE. I THINK.
>> YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON THAT'S EVER SAID THAT.
>> REALLY? WELL, THAT'S LONG OVERDUE.
THIS THING IS THAT YOU GUYS ARE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES FOR THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION OF THIS TOWN.
I'M CONCERNED THAT PAID PARKING WAS REALLY SHOVED THROUGH, REALLY SHOVED THROUGH.
NOW, YOU'RE LOOKING AT SIGNS, WHEN I WOULD REALLY ASK THAT A DISCUSSION BRING BE BROUGHT FORWARD TO YOU ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PAID PARKING REALLY FITS IN OUR CULTURAL OR HISTORICAL FRAMEWORK, OR IF IT'S JUST MAKING AT JACKSONVILLE OR HILTON HEAD OR TYBEE ISLAND.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
[01:50:04]
I ALSO HAVE TO ADD THAT BESIDES THE CULTURAL CONFLICT, AND I HATE TO USE THE WORD CONFLICT.MYSELF, I DON'T HAVE ANY ADVERSARIES.
I'M JUST HERE TO HOPEFULLY MAKE THINGS BETTER.
BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THERE IS NOW THIS VERY DIVISIVE SITUATION IN TOWN, AND WHAT IT IS.
IT'S NOT DIVISIVE BETWEEN THE PEOPLE OF THE TOWN.
IT'S BETWEEN THE PEOPLE AND THE CITY, BIG TIME, AS BIG AS TRANGALI.
I MEAN, THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST CONTROVERSY WE'VE HAD SINCE I CAN REMEMBER.
IT'S EVEN I'M ASHAMED TO SAY BIGGER THAN RAM AND ETHANOL.
BUT THE THING IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING, I JUST MENTIONED REAL QUICK IS THERE'S A BIG BOYCOTT AGAINST ALL THE POINTERS BUSINESSES.
IT'S NOT JUST ISLAND WIDE, IT'S NOT JUST COUNTY WIDE, BUT NOW IT'S SPREADING THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
BUT THE PEOPLE ARE TAKING WHATEVER POWER THEY HAVE UP TO AND INCLUDING PETITIONS AND LAWSUITS AND EVERYTHING BECAUSE THIS IS GETTING SHOVED DOWN THEIR THROAT, SO TO SPEAK.
I THINK THE PEOPLE MORE THAN ANYONE, REALIZE WHY WE'RE HERE, DEVALUE THE COMMUNITY AND THAT WE WANT TO PRESERVE AS MUCH OF THIS CULTURE AND THIS FRIENDLINESS AS WE CAN.
IT'S PART AND PARCEL, PART OF HISTORICAL THING. THANK YOU.
>> I DO WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT.
WHEN IT WAS SAID THAT WE NEEDED A BOARD MEMBER TO BE REPRESENT THE BOARD ON THE ADHOC COMMITTEE, I WAS PRETTY RELUCTANT BECAUSE IT IS CONTENTIOUS AND IT IS CONFRONTATIONAL.
BUT I TOOK IT ON BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAD TO DO IT.
I PUT IN A GOOD AMOUNT OF RESEARCH, AND I DEVELOPED A LIST OF QUESTIONS AND THINGS, WHICH I PRESENTED AT THE ADHOC AND I ASKED THEM.
I WAS VERY SURPRISED WHEN THE FOLLOW UP ADHOC MEETING JUST DISAPPEARED.
I JUST FOUND OUT BECAUSE I MENTIONED TO SOMEONE, HEY, ISN'T THERE SUPPOSED TO BE ANOTHER ADHOC LIKE IN TWO DAYS? WELL, THEY CANCELED THAT. I'M LIKE, THEY DID.
I HAVEN'T HAD ANY OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I ASKED AT THAT MEETING ANSWERED.
I WAS THINKING IF THEY WERE GOING TO BE HERE TODAY, I WAS GOING TO PRINT THAT OUT AND I WAS GOING TO ASK ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS AGAIN BECAUSE I EXPECT THAT YOU SHOULD GET THE RESPECT OF HAVING YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED OR AT LEAST BEING TOLD THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO IT OR SOMETHING, BUT NOT JUST IGNORED LIKE THAT.
I WAS REALLY DISAPPOINTED IN THAT THERE WAS NO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT PART, AND I FELT LIKE I KNOW I SPENT TIME DEVELOPING THOSE QUESTIONS, AND I DID THAT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO KNOW.
>> WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY ANSWERS ON THAT.
>> JIM, THAT RAISES A GOOD POINT.
NOW THAT WE ARE HERE IN THE SUNSHINE, AND THIS IS WHERE WE CAN ALL TALK, I'D LIKE TO ASK MIA, WHEN YOU SENT OUT THE REQUEST TO ALL OF US TO RESPOND TO THE PAID PARKING APPLICATION THAT WAS PUT FORTH.
DID YOU GET A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM THIS BOARD AND A LOT OF COMMENTS ABOUT THE SIGNAGE?
>> NO. I ONLY GOT A RESPONSE FROM YOU AND MEMBER BURNS.
>> BECAUSE LIKE JIM, IT WAS DETAILED AND IT WAS THOUGHTFUL.
IT WAS ABOUT INSTALLATION AND CONSISTENCY AND COLORS AND VISUAL CLUTTER AND HOW MUCH, AND LOOK AT THE ACTUAL BLOCK.
NO, I'LL JUST SAY 2-10 SIGNS OR WHATEVER.
REALLY, WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PUT A SIGN? IT MADE ME THINK, DID THEY GET SO MUCH PUSHBACK? THEN THEY SAID, WE'VE GOT TO WORK AROUND THIS BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BRING IT TO HDC.
MAYBE THEY DID JUST LOOKING AT OUR TWO THINGS BECAUSE YOU'RE PRETTY DETAILED TOO. I DON'T KNOW.
>> WE GOT A COMPREHENSIVE REVITALIZATION OF CENTER STREET WITH WONDERFUL DRAWINGS THAT WERE EXTREMELY DETAILED.
WHAT I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE FROM THE PAID PARKING PEOPLE IS WHERE WILL
[01:55:01]
YOUR SIGNS GO IN THIS NEW ORGANIZATION? IT JUST MAKES SENSE.I HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT ARE THERE OPPORTUNITIES TO COMBINE SIGNS SO WE CAN START TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF SIGN CLUTTER THAT'S GOING TO HAVE.
>> THE HEIGHTS, DOES THAT MEAN EVERY HOME HAS TWO HEIGHTS, OR SOME OF US [OVERLAPPING]
>> I'M GOING TO BRING SOME DOWN TO JUST WAIST HEIGHT. THINGS LIKE THAT.
ARE THERE OPPORTUNITIES THERE, AND I FELT LIKE THERE ARE LEGIT QUESTIONS THAT POTENTIALLY COULD ENHANCE AT LEAST THE VISUAL WITH THE WHOLE THING.
NEVER MIND THE PROBLEMATIC PORTIONS OF SOMEBODY HAVING TO NAVIGATE WHATEVER THE ELECTRONIC APP SYSTEM IS TO BE ABLE TO PAINT THAT.
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TOO, WHAT ARLENE IS SAYING, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IN SITU AN EXACT LIKE ALMOST BLOCK BY BLOCK, BECAUSE WE ARE GETTING SO MUCH CLUTTER DOWN THERE WITH WE'VE GOT THE MAIN STREET TABLETOPS, THE FLAGS, THE BANNERS, THIS, THAT.
THEN WE START PUTTING ALL THESE SIGNS EVERYWHERE.
IT'S LIKE, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW. IT'S ALMOST A SAFETY ISSUE.
>> WASN'T IT LIKE 200 SIGNS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT PLANS TO GO?
>> RIGHT. THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN A STOP SIGN FOR ENFORCEMENT WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING 8-10 OR 200, THAT'S DIFFERENT ALTOGETHER.
>> WHO'S DETERMINING WHERE THEY GO?
>> I DEFINITELY THINK THAT WHATEVER THAT COMMITTEE GROUP OF PEOPLE HAS COME UP WITH NEEDS TO COME BACK HERE, AND YOU'VE SAID THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
I THINK OUR TIME THEN IS BEST SPENT LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY WHAT THEY'RE REALLY SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
I HAD TO PUT IN WHERE OUR SIGNS WERE GOING TO GO ON THE STREET.
I DON'T THINK IT'S ASKING AN AWFUL LOT.
I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN COMMENT NECESSARILY.
ALTHOUGH I'M SURE THAT IF WE WANTED TO, WE WOULD.
ON THE CONCEPT OF WHETHER WE HAVE PAID PARKING OR NOT, THAT TRULY IS BEYOND OUR BAILEYWICK.
WE'RE NOT THERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THAT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE COMMUNITY IS UNFORTUNATE, WITH ALL CAPS.
BUT I ALSO THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE TO IT THAN PAID PARKING.
I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME RESIDENT HATRED GOING ON, AND I THINK THAT PAID PARKING IS AN EASY WAY TO HANG PEOPLE.
OTHERWISE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THERE ARE ONLY TWO BEING RECALLED BECAUSE FOUR HAVE SAID THEY SUPPORT IT.
SOMETHING ELSE IS GOING ON, AND I BELIEVE THAT WHOLEHEARTEDLY, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT DOING PAID PARKING OR NOT DOING PAID PARKING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT PART OF IT.
WE'RE A COMMUNITY WHO HAS NEVER BEEN WILLING BEFORE TO ADOPT A COMMUNITY VISION.
WHEN I WAS ON THE COMMISSION BEFORE, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE POSTAL SERVICE WAS NOT MAINTAINING THE POST OFFICE, A GENTLEMAN SAID TO ME, I LIVE AT THE BEACH.
THEY CAN BULLDOZE THAT POST OFFICE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.
THERE'S A COMMUNITY THAT EXISTS, I BELIEVE, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THERE'S A COMMUNITY, I BELIEVE, THAT EXISTS SOMEWHAT AT THE BEACH.
BUT I DON'T SEE THESE PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER ON THIS.
WHAT I SEE IS NOBODY IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR THE NEED FOR REVENUE.
NOBODY'S ASKING THAT QUESTION.
WHEN YOU ASK THEM, DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER IDEA FOR REVENUE? YOU GET IDEAS THAT CAN'T BE DONE, LIKE PUT A TOLL ON THE BRIDGE.
WHERE IS THE REVENUE GOING TO COME FROM, AND WHERE WOULD WE HAVE EQUAL SPENDING BY OUR TOURISTS ON HELPING US TO BUILD SOMETHING? PEOPLE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT ANY OF THAT.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT BOYCOTTS, AS YOU SAY.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT RECALLS, AS YOU SAY, BUT ONLY TWO PEOPLE.
I JUST THINK THAT THE CITY NEEDS TO CALM DOWN.
[02:00:01]
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO CALM DOWN AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO.WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO GET MONEY? WHAT'S IT FOR? YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS FOR? ONE OF THE BIG-TICKET ITEMS IS TO FIX DOWNTOWN.
I'M TOLD THAT WHEN WE LOSE A POLE LIGHT DOWNTOWN, IT DOESN'T GET REPLACED ANYMORE.
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE POLES ON ALL THOSE LIGHTS DOWNTOWN DO NOT MEET WIND CODE.
WHY WOULD YOU PUT SOMETHING BACK UP THAT DOESN'T MEET CODE? THE LIGHTS ARE NOT GOING BACK UP.
THERE AREN'T PARTS FOR SOME [OVERLAPPING].
PARTS ARE NOT THERE BECAUSE THE LANTERN LIGHTS WERE CUSTOM-MADE FOR FERNANDINA.
IT COST A LOT OF MONEY BACK THEN TO DO IT.
WE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY LYING AROUND NOW.
THERE ARE THREE KINDS OF SIDEWALKS DOWNTOWN, AND HALF OF THEM ARE UNSAFE.
>> WHAT I'M ALSO TOLD IS, DON'T HEAVEN FORBID, OPEN A MANHOLE AND SEE WHAT THE PLUMBING LOOKS LIKE DOWN THERE.
NOW, WHAT I FOUND OF GREAT INTEREST IS NOBODY CARES ABOUT THIS, BUT I'M GOING TO SAY IT ANYWAY.
WHEN I WAS DOING RESEARCH ON THE FIRST CITY COMMISSION IN THIS TOWN, IMAGINE WHAT THEY HAD TO FACE.
ULE SAID, BIG TOWN, BIG PLANS.
THEY HAD TO CREATE A COMMUNITY.
THEY HAD TO CREATE THE INFRASTRUCTURE, ELECTRIC, PLUMBING, WATER, ALL OF IT FROM SCRATCH.
YOU KNOW HOW IT GOT PAID FOR BACK THEN? IF YOU HAD A HOUSE WHERE THE BRICK STREET WAS COMING IN FRONT OF IT, YOU PAID FOR THAT PART OF THE BRICKS.
YOU PAID FOR THAT PART OF THE STREET.
>> WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS? WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS TO GET THAT KIND OF MONEY? IT'S JUST [OVERLAPPING].
>> I HAVE TO GO TO THE PODIUM.
>> I'VE REPEATEDLY REQUESTED FROM THE CITY TO GO AFTER ALTERNATIVE REVENUE STREAMS ALREADY AVAILABLE BUT NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED.
FEES AND FINES ARE NOT PROPERLY BEING IMPLEMENTED.
EVERY TIME I BRING IT UP, I GET CRICKETS.
>> THAT I CAN'T HELP YOU WITH BECAUSE I DON'T GET THAT ONE.
>> I'M SAYING THERE HAS BEEN SUGGESTIONS.
>> BUT THERE'S TWO MORE THINGS THAT I NEED TO SAY.
THERE ARE KEYBOARD WARRIORS AROUND HERE WHO DO NOTHING BUT STIR THE POT.
THERE'S AT LEAST ONE OF THEM WHO HAS BEEN THE SOLE REASON THAT SOME REALLY GOOD STUFF HAS NOT HAPPENED IN THIS COMMUNITY.
IN FACT, THERE WAS A FOUNDATION BEING FORMED THAT RESTAURANTERS WERE WILLING TO HELP SUPPORT.
TACK $0.50 ON YOUR BILL. IT'S OPTIONAL.
YOU WANT TO TACK $0.50 ON YOUR BILL.
THIS GOES TO THE AMELIA FOUNDATION.
THAT WAS TO PAY FOR STUFF LIKE THIS.
THAT KEYBOARD WARRIOR DECIDED IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA, CRITICIZED, CRUCIFIED, ET CETERA, AND EVERYBODY JUMPED ON BOARD.
IT WAS LIKE A FEEDING FRENZY, AND THAT DIDN'T EVER HAPPEN.
NOW, WE'RE GOING TO FIND A WAY NOT TO GET DOWNTOWN FIXED. YOU KNOW WHAT? OUR GOLDEN GOOSE DIES WHEN THAT HAPPENS.
THE PEOPLE WHO REVITALIZED CENTER STREET IN THE 70S DID IT FOR ONE PURPOSE TO ATTRACT HISTORIC TOURISM.
IT WORKS. NOW WE DON'T LIKE THE TOURISTS.
[LAUGHTER] WE DON'T LIKE THEM, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO CHARGE THEM ANY MONEY.
SEE, IT DOESN'T WORK FROM MY HEAD.
>> I HAD TWO QUESTIONS THAT ARE THINGS THAT MAY BE OUR BOARD [OVERLAPPING].
>> ARE THEY REALLY EASY AND NOT EMOTIONAL?
>> CAN WE, AS A BOARD, ASK TO GET AN UPDATE REPORT ON HOW THE WATERFRONT PROJECT IS GOING?
>> THEN MAYBE THE SAME TYPE OF QUESTION ON OLD PEG LEG.
WHAT'S THE PLAN THERE? BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER THEM ASKING IF THEY COULD TAKE HIM AWAY.
IF THE ANSWER WAS WE'RE TAKING HIM DOWN TO REPAIR HIM OR RESTORE HIM OR PRESERVE HIM.
>> I THINK MS. FINKELSTEIN DID SAY THAT THE MUSEUM HAD OFFERED, AND THE PIRATES OFFERED TO MOVE HIM.
>> TO THE MUSEUM, AND THE MUSEUM HAS NOW PUT HIM OUTSIDE.
[02:05:04]
IT'S ALSO MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MAYOR HAS STARTED A FUNDING TO PAY FOR REVENUE.>> WHAT'S THE PLAN, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T TOLD WHAT THE PLAN IS.
>> IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN ASK FOR?
>> CERTAINLY. I ALSO DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT OTHER PIRATE THAT WAS BUILT.
>> BUT HE'S NOT OURS AT THIS POINT.
>> BUT THE PIRATES HAVE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE HIM TO THE CITY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION WHERE HE GOES.
HE'S PROBABLY DOWN THERE BY THE PLAYGROUND WHERE NOBODY [OVERLAPPING].
I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY HE'S GOING TO GIVE THE NEW PLAN.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE'D LIKE AN UPDATE ON? I WOULD LIKE AN UPDATE, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN ASK FOR THIS, BUT I WOULD LIKE AN UPDATE ON STANDARD MARINE.
>> I WILL SOLICIT THE UPDATES ABOUT THE WATERFRONT PARK AND PEG LAKE PETE FROM MORE SENIOR STAFF AT THE CITY.
THEN I CAN REACH OUT TO JOSE MIRANDA ABOUT THE STANDARD MARINE PROJECT.
>> BUT WHAT I DO NOT WANT TO SEE HAPPEN IS THAT STANDARD MARINE GOES THE WAY OF ATLANTA SEAFOOD. ANYTHING ELSE?
>> DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION ON ASKING FOR A FEE?
>> YEAH. THAT'S A REQUEST OF STAFF.
I THINK WE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT A VOTE.
THEN OUR NEXT MEETING IS SCHEDULED FOR DECEMBER 18.
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY CASES, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD CHANGE AND LET US KNOW.
YES. IT'S TOO LATE FOR CASES, THOUGH, FOR SUBMISSION.
DON'T WE JUST CANCEL IT AND JUST HAVE A JANUARY?
>> UNLESS THERE'S AN UPDATE ON SOME OF THESE ITEMS FROM TONIGHT.
>> I HAD SOME DISCUSSION ITEMS. I WANTED TO BRING IN DECEMBER, INCLUDING THE OLD TOWN PRESERVATION GUIDELINES.
THEN I'VE DONE SOME MORE RESEARCH ON THE PRESERVATION REHABILITATION ASSISTANCE GRANTS THAT ARE CONTINUED TO BE FUNDED, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT REALLY DOING THAT PROGRAM RIGHT NOW.
IT'S STILL BEEN BUDGETED EVERY YEAR SINCE THAT PROGRAM WAS CREATED.
I'VE DONE SOME MORE RESEARCH ON THAT, AND I WOULD LIKE TO BRAINSTORM ON THOSE IDEAS, TOO.
>> BECAUSE WE DO HAVE MONEY IN THERE.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT. THIS IS PROBABLY FOR TERESA.
IF WE ARE OUT OF TOWN FOR THAT, AND BEING THAT THERE'S NO CASES, AND IT'S BASICALLY BOARD BUSINESS, CAN WE ZOOM? FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I NOTICED THAT THERE WAS A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEMBER THIS WEEK THAT ZOOMED INTO A MEETING.
>> THAT BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEMBER WAS SICK, AND SO UNDER THE CITY'S CHARTER, YOU CAN ONLY ATTEND DUE TO ILLNESS VIA ZOOM.
>> RIGHT. HOWEVER, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE VOTING, AND YOU JUST WANT TO ATTEND AND LISTEN, AND YOU'RE NOT VOTING ON ANY CASES, THEN, AND YOU'RE JUST GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DISCUSSION, I THINK THAT WOULD NOT VIOLATE THE CHARTER.
THE CHARTER JUST DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO ATTEND AND VOTE UNLESS YOU'RE SICK, AND WE HAVE A QUORUM IN PERSON.
YES. WE CAN CIRCULATE THAT TO YOU.
THE BOARD DID ADOPT A REMOTE ATTENDANCE POLICY, BUT WITH NO CASES.
MS. PEARSON'S RIGHT, I GUESS MAYBE THE PAID PARKING WILL NOT BE ON DECEMBER.
BUT LIKE I SAID, WHEN IT DOES COME TO UPDATE YOU OR GET YOUR APPROVAL OR WHATEVER COURSE IT TAKES, WE WILL HAVE THE ONE PARKING ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE HERE BECAUSE I HEARD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW MANY AND WHERE AND VISUAL BLIGHT, BUT SOME OF THAT MAY BE UNAVOIDABLE IN ORDER TO ENFORCE, BECAUSE OTHERWISE PEOPLE WILL SAY, I DIDN'T SEE IT, I DIDN'T KNOW, I DIDN'T PAY.
THAT'S WHY WE WILL HAVE SOMEONE HERE TO TALK TO ABOUT ENFORCEMENT AND THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE NEEDED TO ENFORCE, SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.
>> COULD WE POSSIBLY ASK THE VENDOR TO TELL US IF THEY'VE PUT THESE THINGS IN ANOTHER HISTORIC COMMUNITY, HOW THAT WENT?
>> HOW DID THEY INTEGRATE THIS INTO A STARK DOWNTOWN?
>> I THINK STAFF HAS SOME IDEAS, AND I HEARD SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT BEING LOWER, SO I BOUNCED THAT OFF OF THE ONE PARKING PEOPLE.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHAT IS SAFE FOR PEOPLE TO USE.
I THINK ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS MENTIONED THAT.
THERE ARE SOME LOGISTICS TO IT THAT ARE NOT JUST GOING TO BE HISTORIC.
>> HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.