Jun 26, 2025 Historic District Council Workshop

[00:00:02]

ALL RIGHT. CALL TO ORDER. HTC WORKSHOP JUNE 26TH,

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

. OKAY. PLEASE RISE FOR THIS. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

JUST US. YES, US. WELL, YES. FOR THE WORKSHOP.

SO YOU HAVE NEW BUSINESS ON HERE? WE HAVE NEW BUSINESS.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE NEW BUSINESS? OKAY. SO NOW WE'RE ON TO THE BOARD BUSINESS.

AND MY THOUGHT BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT I BROUGHT.

I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF TODAY.

WE WANTED TO MAKE I PUT THAT ON THE REGULAR MEETING AGENDA.

OH, THIS IS JUST OTHER. THE WORKSHOP WAS JUST FOR OTHER THINGS THAT I KIND OF.

ME AND KELLY KEPT HEARING BRINGING UP LIKE, THE COA AND APPLICATION MATERIALS.

SO WE COULD HAVE SOME TIME TO DISCUSS THAT WHILE EVERYONE'S FRESH AND NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A REGULAR MEETING.

AND THEN I HAVE THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES LATER IN THE REGULAR MEETING TONIGHT THAT WHEN WE DEFINITELY NEED TO BE FRESH FOR TWO, I THINK WHICH IS I JUST MADE THE ASSUMPTION IT'S MY FAULT FOR DOING THAT, THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION HERE.

SO LET'S GO ON TO ITEM 4.1. STAFF AND BOARD REVIEW REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS AND REVIEW PROCESS.

[4.1 Discuss HDC staff and board review required application materials & review process]

BASED ON WHAT I'VE LEARNED AND EXPERIENCED SO FAR IS THAT WE GET AN INPUT OF DIFFERENT QUALITY OF APPLICATION MATERIALS.

AND WE HAVE ON OUR HCC WEB PAGE A SEPARATE LINK THAT IS THE CHECKLIST FOR HCC APPLICATION MATERIALS.

SO KELLY AND I WENT THROUGH THAT CHECKLIST AND INCORPORATED THOSE REQUIREMENTS RIGHT INTO THE APPLICATION.

SO WHETHER SOMEONE'S LOOKING AT THE APPLICATION ON THEIR OWN OR WITH ME, I WALK THEM THROUGH THAT CHECKLIST THAT'S NOW EMBEDDED INTO THE APPLICATION IN HOPES THAT PEOPLE WILL STRONGLY CONSIDER THE APPLICATIONS THEY'RE SUBMITTING TO US.

SO SOME OF THOSE CHANGES INCLUDES A REQUIREMENT TO SHOW THE CONNECTION OF ADDITIONS TO HISTORIC STRUCTURES IN APPLICATION MATERIALS. WE EDITED THE WINDOWS SURVEY REQUIREMENT TO BE COMPLETED BY A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.

ELEVATIONS OF EACH SIDE IS A DETAIL THAT WE ADDED.

AND THEN LANGUAGE THAT AFFIRMS MATERIALS TO BE USED IN THE PROJECT ARE INCLUDED IN THE APPLICATIONS.

BECAUSE I'M SURE YOU GUYS SEE, WHEN THE APPLICATIONS COME THROUGH, THERE'S ALWAYS LIKE BLANK SPACES ON THERE THAT I'M JUST LIKE, SCROLLING THROUGH THAT SOMEONE HAS JUST NOT FILLED OUT.

SO THIS FURTHER AFFIRMS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE FILLED OUT OR IT NEEDS TO BE PRESENT IN THERE.

ADDITIONAL SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIALS. WE ALSO ADDED THE PART WHERE I SAID ABOUT COMPLETED BY DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.

WE ALSO SAID OTHER THAN A WINDOW SALES REPRESENTATIVE.

SO THAT MIGHT KIND OF CUT OUT THAT PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING OF WINDOW SALESMAN COMING THROUGH AND SAYING THAT ALL THESE WINDOWS NEED TO BE REPLACED.

WE ADDED ADDITIONAL SLOTS FOR FILES TO BE UPLOADED.

SO INSTEAD OF SIX, THERE'S NOW NINE SPOTS. AND THEY CAN ALWAYS EMAIL ME AS WELL.

WE ADDED A REQUIREMENT FOR STREET CONTEXT ELEVATIONS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

SO IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW HOUSE ON THE STREET A CONTEXT ELEVATION SKETCH OF THAT WHOLE STREET.

ANOTHER NOTE THAT WE ADDED IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES IN THE APPLICATION IS MY CONTACT INFORMATION.

KIND OF ENCOURAGING PEOPLE IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT EITHER THE PROJECT OR THE APPLICATION MATERIALS, TO REACH OUT TO ME AT ANY POINT IN THE PROCESS.

AND THEN A THEN JUST A LITTLE CAVEAT ON THIS IS OUR SOFTWARE IS GOING TO CHANGE OVER SOON TO CITY VIEW.

SO THIS MIGHT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT AGAIN ONCE WE GET INTO THE NEW SYSTEM.

[00:05:06]

WHERE AM I GOING TO GET THESE ELEVATIONS FOR THE NEIGHBORS? YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW JOSE DOES, PROBABLY THINKING THE SAME THING.

AND SOMETIMES IT'S EASY. LIKE, IF I KNOW. OH, JOSE DID THAT PROJECT, I'LL JUST CALL JOSE OR, YOU KNOW, AN PITMAN DID THAT ONE. I'LL CALL HER.

AND IT'S KIND OF EASY THAT WAY. BUT IF IT'S LIKE A HISTORIC HOME THAT HASN'T BEEN TOUCHED BY ANYBODY.

AM I NOW GOING TO HAVE TO GENERATE AN ELEVATION FOR SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT OF TIME? SO PERHAPS LIKE A I DON'T KNOW, HOW DO YOU GUYS NORMALLY GET THEM.

BECAUSE WE GET YOU PROVIDE THEM FREQUENTLY. WHERE DO YOU NORMALLY GET THEM FROM? HE DOES THE WORK NEXT TO THEM. YEAH. PULL THEM FROM OTHER.

PEARSON? I GOT LOADS FROM JIM BECAUSE HE DID THAT PROJECT.

WE DID THE PROJECT NEXT DOOR WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN KAUFMAN.

YEAH. SO WE WERE ABLE TO DO THE CONTACT BETWEEN THE TWO.

BUT NORMALLY THAT'S NOT IN OUR FEE STRUCTURE.

WHAT ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHS. WHAT, WHAT. I THINK THAT MAY BE THE WAY TO GO.

IS ALLOWED. WHAT'S THAT? YEAH. OH, YEAH. OBVIOUSLY, I WAS GONNA DO A PHOTO THAT'S TO SCALE, AND THEN YOU ADD YOUR ELEVATION IN, AND IT GIVES CONTEXT.

I MEAN, SO THERE'S A LITTLE PHOTOSHOP OR WHATEVER PROGRAM YOU USE WORK.

BUT AND OF COURSE, AS I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED FOR THAT.

BUT THAT'S LESS OF AN EFFORT. YEAH. I THINK WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE PROHIBITIVE.

SO EVEN IF SOMEBODY CAN TAKE, OH, HERE'S OUR VACANT LOT OR WHATEVER WE'RE DOING HERE.

AND THEN IF THEY HAVE PHOTOS AND THEY CAN PROVIDE.

THIS IS A ONE STORY STRUCTURE THAT IS 22FT TALL.

THIS IS A TWO STORY. IT'S 31FT TALL. YEP. YEAH.

SO THEN WE'LL KNOW HOW THIS THING IS FITTING IN THERE.

QUESTION ON RECONSTRUCTION. WHY DO YOU NEED THE WHOLE STREETSCAPE? WHY CAN'T YOU JUST DO THE TWO NEIGHBORS? WE DO THE STREETSCAPE FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO MEET THE AVERAGE.

THERE'S A FORMULA ASSOCIATED. BUT FOR RESIDENTIAL THE CONTEXT IS REALLY THE TWO HOUSES NEXT DOOR.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHAT IF IT'S A NON HISTORIC HOUSE.

WHAT DOES IT MATTER. YEAH. I WOULD THINK THE TWO NEIGHBORS IS REASONABLE.

WELL AND IT MIGHT BE THE CASE THAT I MEAN IT MIGHT BE A WEIRD THING WHERE THE TWO NEIGHBORS ARE MAYBE NOT CONTRIBUTING OR DON'T FIT YOUR THING, WHERE THEN THE APPLICANT MIGHT WANT TO INCLUDE A FEW MORE.

SO I THINK IT'S KIND OF A GRAY AREA WHERE YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAY, HERE'S MY CASE.

YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THESE HOUSES ARE LIKE, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, THIS HOUSE IS THEN HERE.

SO IT WOULD MAKE SENSE IF I FILL IN, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S A LITTLE I DON'T THINK WE CAN HAVE A HARD DEFINITION ON THE NUMBER OF HOUSES INCLUDED. AND THAT'S AGAIN WHERE JUDGMENT COMES IN IN THAT GRAY AREA.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD ASK BE TALKED THROUGH BY STAFF AND THE APPLICANT.

BUT THE STATEMENT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN WOULD STAY THE SAME.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THE DISCUSSION EXPLAINING TO FOLKS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

BECAUSE I'VE IN MY TIME COMING TO THESE MEETINGS, I'VE SEEN SEVERAL COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS WHERE THE STREETSCAPE HAD TO BE SHOWN AND A WAS SHOWN AND IT ACTUALLY STOPPED A PROJECT FROM COMING DOWNTOWN THAT I REMEMBER.

SO I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT I THINK WE'RE SAYING DIFFERENT STROKES FOR RESIDENTIAL VERSUS COMMERCIAL.

SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS IS THE LANGUAGE OKAY THE WAY IT IS.

AND WE JUST HAVE THAT DISCUSSION. BEEF IT OUT.

MAYBE YOU WANT TO ADD PHOTOS ONLY WHEN DOES THAT DISCUSSION HAPPEN? BECAUSE PART OF MY CONCERN AND WHAT I'M PART OF WHAT I'M GOING TO BRING UP TONIGHT IS THE AND THIS IS NOT AT ALL AGAINST ME AND HER EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I THINK SHE'S SUPER SMART AND TOTALLY MOTIVATED IS THE EXPERIENCE OF THE STAFF AND HOW IS IT DETERMINED WHAT CONTEXT IS NEEDED. AND SO I REALIZE IT'S NOT BLACK AND WHITE, YOU KNOW, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

AND PERHAPS THERE'S A THERE'S AN INITIAL CONVERSATION OR A MEETING WITH A BOARD MEMBER OR I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT ALL WORKS, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME THERE'S SOME, THERE'S A GRAY AREA THERE THAT WE DO NEED TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

WELL, GIVEN MIA'S OBNOXIOUS YOUTH. WE'RE JUST SO JEALOUS, THAT'S ALL.

I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT YET. YEAH. I HAVE MANY TIMES SUGGESTED TO HER THAT IF SHE HAS ANY QUESTION OR ISSUE,

[00:10:05]

OH, LET ME STICK IN THERE. WHAT IF THEY'RE PROVIDING THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORS AND IT'S AN OBVIOUS DIVERGENCE. YOU KNOW, SO YOU'VE GOT TWO, TWO STORY STRUCTURES, AND THEN THEY'RE PUTTING IN A LITTLE CRACKER HOUSE.

I MEAN, DO WE PUT A PERCENTAGE IF THERE'S A CHANGE OR.

I MEAN, THAT'S GOING TO BE AN OBVIOUS THING WHERE MIA OR ANYBODY, IF WE HAVE SOME SORT OF LANGUAGE LIKE A RED FLAG, YOU KNOW, IF THIS DEVIATES DRASTICALLY FROM THE NEIGHBORS, THEN DO THEY HAVE SUPPORTING MATERIALS? I CAN SAY, BUT THESE TWO NEIGHBORS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE LIKE THAT.

EVERYBODY ELSE IS A CRACKER ON THAT HOUSE OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, JUST A RED FLAG FOR STAFF.

AND THEN ONE OTHER THING, AND I THINK WE'RE SUPER FORTUNATE BECAUSE I'M GOING TO SPEAK FOR JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY HERE.

WE KNOW OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT AND YOU GUYS KNOW OUR HISTORIC DAY.

SO WHEN 30 STAFF SECOND COMES IN, WE KNOW THAT HOUSE.

AND MOST OF THE TIME WE KNOW WHO THE PEOPLE ARE THAT LIVE THERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE STUFF THAT'S GOING TO BE SHOVELED THROUGH AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO LOSE IT.

SO I THINK IF THERE'S SOME COGNIZANCE AND AWARENESS OF IT AND THEN MAYBE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF LANGUAGE IF THERE'S SOME, YOU KNOW, DRASTIC DEVIANCE. AND I COULD ALSO PUT IN THAT LANGUAGE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL WOULD BE LIKE FOR COMMERCIAL WE'D WANT TO SEE THE WHOLE BLOCK, BUT FOR RESIDENTIAL. CONSULT WITH STAFF TO SEE WHAT CONTEXT IS REQUIRED.

IS COMMERCIAL REALLY? DO WE REALLY NEED TO SEE LIKE WHEN WE THINK OF THE WHOLE BLOCK, THERE'S EIGHT BLOCKS.

DO WE REALLY NEED TO SEE THE WHOLE BLOCK, OR DO WE REALLY JUST NEED THE SIDE STREETS ASSOCIATED WITH HOW.

YEAH OKAY. YEAH. YES. ALL RIGHT. AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF INFILL LOTS.

YEAH. YEP. I MEAN, THERE'S NOT THAT MANY LEFT, SO.

YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SO IF WE BEEF UP THAT LANGUAGE WITH THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL, IF WE MAKE A POINT THAT MORE INFORMATION MIGHT BE REQUIRED INCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF PHOTOGRAPHS.

DOES THAT WORK FOR US. CAN WE DO WE SAY POSSIBILITY.

DO WE SAY THAT A ELEVATIONS OF PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ELEVATIONS OF THE TWO ADJACENT NEIGHBORS, NOT OPTIONAL IN IN THE RESIDENTIAL LIKE OR ELEVATE OR FULL SCALE.

OH YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. WHATEVER YOU DO A PHOTOGRAPH WITH YOUR WITH THE DESIGNER'S ELEVATION IN THEIR PIECED INTO IT OR.

BUT WE, I THINK WE NEED TO SEE THE CONTEXT OF THE TWO ADJACENT PROPERTIES FOR RESIDENTIAL AREAS.

OKAY. OKAY. GOOD. TAKE US FURTHER. I HAVE A QUESTION.

ARE WE STILL. ARE WE JUST JUMPING AROUND DIFFERENT THINGS OR DO YOU HAVE MORE? WE'RE GOING. IT'S JUST KIND OF ABOUT THE ONLINE APPLICATION AS WELL AS KIND OF THE APPLICATION PROCESS AND MATERIALS REQUIRED IN GENERAL.

SO THE THINGS THAT YOU ADDED THAT YOU HAVE BULLET POINTED THERE.

LET ME BACK UP. IS THE OLD CHECKLIST STILL PART OF THE OF THIS? WHAT THEY CAN SEE SOMEPLACE OR PULL UP. RIGHT.

SO ON OUR WEBSITE, IF YOU SCROLL DOWN ON APPLICATIONS TO HDC, THERE'S LIKE 8 OR 9 BULLET POINTS RIGHT THERE.

THE FIRST ONE'S THE APPLICATION. THE SECOND ONE'S LIKE THE MATRIX.

AND THE THIRD ONE IS LIKE THE APPLICATION CHECKLIST. BUT YOU HAVE TO CLICK THROUGH ALL THOSE LINKS TO SEE THAT.

SO THE ONES THAT YOU'VE ADDED TO THIS ONLINE FORM, CAN YOU PUT THOSE ADDITIONS ONTO THE CHECKLIST. BECAUSE LIKE THE CHECKLIST DOESN'T HAVE SOME OF THESE THINGS ON IT.

OKAY. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION KIND OF RELEVANT TO THAT CONTEXT THING, WASN'T THERE, KELLY, A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO? HADN'T WE BEEN GIVEN A GRANT TO DO, LIKE SOME KIND OF COMPUTERIZED SURVEY OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? AND I THINK IT KIND OF FELL APART BEFORE IT COMPLETED.

BUT WAS THERE ANY DELIVERABLES GIVEN TO US FOR THAT? THAT GRANT WAS INTENDED TO BE INCORPORATED WITH THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINE UPDATE, AND BECAUSE OF THE HIGH COST TO DO THAT WORK, IT WAS NOT COMPLETED AT ALL. WE FOCUSED IT AND REVISED THE GRANT TO SUPPORT THE DESIGN GUIDELINE UPDATE.

YEAH, BECAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN WE FIRST TALKED ABOUT IT, AND I WAS PRETTY JAZZED BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A RESOURCE THAT YOU COULD HAVE JUST GONE TO ONLINE AND JUST PULLED THOSE UP, AND WE WOULD HAVE HAD OUR.

AS A DESIGNER, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD YOUR CONTEXT RIGHT THERE IS RIGHT THERE FOR YOU.

AND YOU JUST GRAB IT AND BOOP AND DONE. EVEN A HOMEOWNER COULD HAVE DONE THAT.

AND HOW WHEN YOU SAY IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE. KELLY, CAN YOU GIVE US A BALLPARK? MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WITH $50,000, WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN HALF OF ONE CITY BLOCK.

YES. OH, WOW. WHICH ONE? WELL, LET'S GET THE BIGGEST BANG FOR.

[00:15:01]

WE'RE GONNA COVER EVERYTHING ON TUESDAY. BUT THE TENNESSEE, OTHER OF OUR CITY.

REMEMBER THE OTHER ISSUE THAT IS THAT WE HAD ANTICIPATED BEING ABLE TO UTILIZE THE RESOURCES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA.

AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THEY WERE STILL REGROUPING, AND IT WAS UNCLEAR WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD BE AN OPTION FOR US.

SO GOING TO A THIRD PARTY VENDOR WAS GOING TO EVEN FURTHER ESCALATE THE COST.

OKAY. THANK YOU. THOSE STUDENTS ARE A GREAT RESOURCE.

IF WE COULD HAVE SOMEBODY WITH A BED AND BREAKFAST, STUDENTS COME UP FOR WEEKENDS AND THEY COME OUT AND THEY MEASURE AND THEY PROVIDE THAT TO KELLY AND THEY GET TO COOK? DO WE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA? I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS. HAVE ANYTHING LIKE SCAD, THE SAVANNAH SCHOOL OF UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA? WELL, WE HAVE THEM. OH. STOP NOW. SO WE HAVE A BETTER RESOURCE.

I'M SURE I COULD TRAVEL TO TUSCALOOSA, BUT IF WE HAVE THAT RESOURCE, IS THAT THE EXPENSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THEM. WE. SO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS LIKE A 3D MODEL EFFECTIVELY OF DOWNTOWN.

AND SO YOU WOULD HAVE THE DEVICE THAT ACTUALLY GOES THROUGH AND SCANS ALL OF OUR STRUCTURES AND CREATES A RENDERING.

AND PART OF THE RESOURCE WE NEED FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA IS THEIR SUPERCOMPUTER.

OKAY. PROCESS THAT RENDERING AND PROVIDE A RESULT BACK THAT WE COULD THEN UPLOAD INTO A DIGITAL ENVIRONMENT FOR THAT USE.

SO SO THAT SCHOOL IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF DOING SUCH PROJECTS FOR NOTHING AND JUST AS LEARNING EXPERIENCES.

CORRECT? WELL, THAT'S TOO BAD. UNLESS YOU CAN ESTABLISH A RAPPORT WITH A PROFESSOR OR PROFESSORS AND.

WELL, WE HAVE BILL TILSON HERE. COULD HE DO THAT? YEAH, POSSIBLY. I'D LOVE IT IF HE WANTED TO BE AN ADVOCATE FOR US TO.

SO BUDDY JACOBS IS SUPER CONNECTED TO UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

BILL WAS ACTUALLY A PROFESSOR THERE. I'LL ASK HIM WHAT HE THINKS.

OKAY. YEAH, THAT'D BE WORTHWHILE, I THINK. ALL RIGHT.

YOU GUYS WANT THE WHOLE COMMERCIAL DOWNTOWN? JUST GET THE WHOLE STREET STREETSCAPE.

CENTER STREET. REALLY? THAT'S IMPORTANT. WELL, THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE SOME OF THE SIDES GET THE SIDE STREETS FROM ACTUAL.

ACTUAL. OKAY. YEAH, BUT IF YOU'RE FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECTS, IF YOU'RE REQUIRING THE APPLICANT TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION THAT'S ON THERE.

SURE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND AND DO WE HAVE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD MANY OF THESE PROJECTS IN THE PAST THAT HAD TO PROVIDE THAT CONTEXT. DO WE HAVE A LIBRARY OF THOSE APPLICATIONS WHERE THAT INFORMATION WAS SUBMITTED TO US? YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PULL FROM AND RECALL THAT PARTICULAR ADDRESS TO THEN DIG INTO THE FILE ASSOCIATED WITH THE PERMIT OR THE COA THAT'S BEEN ISSUED TO THEN GRAB IT. SO IT'S NOT SEPARATELY DIGITIZED, BUT IT'S AVAILABLE.

SURE. YES. SO THE CITY COULD CONTACT LIKE THE SACRED CONTACT YOU AND SAY, HEY, I'M DOING WHATEVER.

LIKE CAN, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU PROVIDE ME WITH CONTACT INFORMATION FOR WHOEVER DESIGN WHATEVER IS NEXT DOOR? CORRECT. OKAY. THEY COULD DO A RECORDS REQUEST ON A PROPERTY NEXT TO THEM, AND THEN I COULD PROVIDE THEM TO THROUGH A RECORDS REQUEST OR AS PART OF OUR CASE FILES.

OKAY. BUT IT IS AVAILABLE. IT'S JUST NOT SEPARATELY CATALOGED AND IN A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU COULD THEN LEAVE DIGITAL.

MY ONLY CONCERN IS, AS YOU KNOW, THE WORK OF AN ARCHITECT IS COPYRIGHT.

YEAH. SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A WILLING PARTICIPANT.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE'D DONE CENTER STREET, WE CONTACTED THEM AND SAY, HEY, CAN YOU GIVE ME THE TWO INITIALS THAT YOU GUYS DID? AND THEY WOULD SEND US A FILE, WE'D CUT AND PASTE THEM TOGETHER.

THE OTHER BUILDINGS IN BETWEEN, WE'D HAD TO GO THROUGH AND MEASURE FROM PHOTOGRAPHS.

BUT YEAH, IN ANYTHING WE CREATE, ESSENTIALLY IT'S GOT THE COPYRIGHT ON IT.

SO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU GET BY AND BY YOU.

RIGHT. YEAH. SO IT'S A PERSONAL COURTESY. BUT YEAH, PEOPLE MAY NOT SEE.

SO IT'S TIME CONSUMING. AND IT'S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT SOUNDS, BUT IT'S DOABLE.

YES. AND SOMETIMES YOU CAN GET SOMETHING FROM BUILDING DEPARTMENT IF THERE WAS A PERMIT ISSUED ON IT.

NOW, UP UNTIL YESTERDAY, I COULD HAVE SAID I'VE HAD A 0% SUCCESS RATE IN REQUESTING THOSE FILES, BUT YESTERDAY I ACTUALLY GOT ONE. SO YOU GET A CHANGE.

MAYBE THAT'S A CHANGE FOR DEPOSIT. I DON'T KNOW, BUT I ACTUALLY GOT ONE, SO.

[00:20:02]

SO WE'LL JUST SAY, LET'S PUT THAT ON THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE LEDGER AND HOPE IT CONTINUES.

OKEY DOKEY. I THINK IT'S ALSO A GOOD OPTION TO GIVE THEM FOR PHOTOS AND TO KIND OF SPLICE IN THEIR DRAWING AND KIND OF ACCOMPLISH IT.

SO. SO DO YOU HAVE ANY INTERNS BUDGETED UPCOMING KELLY.

NOT FOR THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. NO. AND I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING NEXT YEAR EITHER.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE ON. WE WANTED TO DISCUSS OUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL MATRIX.

AND YOU'RE. ARE WE DONE WITH THE APPLICATION THING? ARE WE? WE DON'T HAVE TO. EVERYTHING'S OKAY. ONLINE APPLICATION.

WHERE IT HAS THE SUBMISSION DEADLINES. WOULD THIS NOT BE THE PROPER PLACE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT ALL MATERIALS MUST BE RECEIVED BY THE SUBMISSION DEADLINE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE MEETING OR SOMETHING OF THAT SORT TO AVOID YOU GETTING FILES THE DAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

AND THAT WOULD BE GREAT. YEAH. AND IF IT'S NOT SUBMITTED, IT'S NOT COMPLETE.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ONE. THE SECOND ONE WAS UNDER THE APPLICATION.

OH, YEAH. THIS IS JUST A QUESTION. SO FOR THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT, WE DO HAVE IN THERE A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.

I KNOW WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, BUT HOW ARE WE DEFINING THAT IF AN APPLICANT COMES TO YOU AND SAYS MIA, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHAT'S OUR ANSWER OF WHO A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL IS? I COULD SAY, SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTANDS HISTORIC WINDOWS AND THE MATERIALS THAT ARE CREATED OUT OF NOT SELLING WINDOWS.

AND IT WAS NOT A WINDOWS SALESMAN. OKAY. SO SOMEBODY THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WE'RE ASKING FOR AN EDUCATED THIRD PARTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION AS SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS IT. OKAY. SO YOU'VE GOT THAT COVERED. AND THEN THE LAST ONE WAS ON THE SECOND COLUMN UNDER SCALED ELEVATIONS AND PLANTS.

THERE'S AN ASTERISK. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ASTERISK REFERS TO UNLESS THAT WAS ON PAGE THREE, WHICH I DIDN'T PRINT. LET ME GO AHEAD AND CHECK THE BOXES OF APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS.

THIS IS LIKE DOING A CHARTER REVIEW.

OKAY, SO WE'RE SEEING THAT HERE. YEAH. I THINK IT ACTUALLY RELATES TO AN ASTERISK THAT'S FURTHER UP.

OH, HERE, THIS BIG PARAGRAPH WHICH WE INCORPORATED FROM THE CHECKLIST TO DEFINE WHAT WE MEAN BY ELEVATION REQUIREMENTS.

I SEE. SO MAYBE THAT SHOULD BE DROPPED BELOW THAT.

IT WAS HARD TO DROP IT BELOW ONLY. IT'S JUST THE WAY THAT THE FORM IS SORT OF STRUCTURED.

AND THEN THAT'S WHY WE PUT THAT PARTICULAR COLUMN WITH THAT ONE RIGHT AT THE TOP, SO THAT IT COULD RELATE BACK TO THE NOTE THAT WAS JUST ABOVE IT.

I FEEL LIKE WE'VE PLAYED AROUND WITH THIS ONE A LITTLE BIT JUST TO SEE HOW IT BEST ALIGN.

SEE ABOVE. SEE NOTE ABOVE. SURE. SO LIKE THAT ASTERISK THAT SAYS SCALE ELEVATIONS OF PLANS.

AND THEN IS THE ASTERISK. IT REFERS TO THE. YEAH.

YEAH. THAT'S A LITTLE HOKEY. YEAH. BUT IT WAS BETTER THAN PUTTING IT BELOW BECAUSE THERE'S A SPACE ABOVE. OKAY, THAT WOULD WORK. YEAH. OKAY, COOL.

THAT'S ALL I GOT. ANYTHING ELSE? ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT PART? OKAY. HEADED DOWN TO. CAN I ASK? YES. IF WE HAVE ALL OF YOU REALLY LOOKED AT THAT APPLICATION ITSELF TO MAKE SURE THAT IT REALLY DOES CONTAIN EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE WANTING TO SEE IN A COMPLETE APPLICATION.

YEAH. AT THIS POINT, YES. ALTHOUGH I DO HAVE A QUESTION. ONE OF ME IS FIRST COMMENTS WAS ABOUT HAVING APPLICANTS CHOOSE THE WORD STRONGLY.

CONSIDER. SO IS THAT REALLY THE RIGHT WORD? STRONGLY CONSIDER.

OR IS IT REQUIRED? I WAS I THINK I THINK YOU IT WAS IN REFERENCE TO THE APPLICATION.

STRONGLY CONSIDER SUBMITTING. SO THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR PRE-APPLICATION MEETINGS BEFORE AN APPLICATION SHE CAN COME TO THE BOARD.

WE WOULD STRONGLY CONSIDER THAT YOU MEET WITH STAFF PRIOR TO EVEN SUBMITTING A STAFF LEVEL COA.

OKAY, BUT THERE IS NOT PRESENTLY A REQUIREMENT TO DO THAT PLACE IN OUR CODE.

OKAY. THAT'S WHY I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU. YEAH, BUT THESE ARE THE BUT THOSE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS SO THAT ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE COMPLETED IN ORDER TO SUCCESSFULLY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION.

OKAY. AND UNDER THE PRE-APPLICATION PART IN THE ONLINE FORM IT SAYS YOU'LL NEED TO MEET WITH.

[00:25:07]

OKAY. SO THAT'S THAT'S MUCH STRONGER THAN STRONGLY CONSIDER.

BUT FOR STAFF COA IT'S NOT REQUIRED. THERE'S NO.

ONE ONE THING WE AS A BOARD NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF IS SOMETIMES STAFF CAN GET BULLIED BY APPLICANTS TO PUT THEIR STUFF IN THEN WHEN IT'S SUBPAR AND DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION, I MEAN, THEY'LL JUST HARASS YOU GUYS UNTIL YOU'RE LIKE, I JUST PUT IT THROUGH. AND YEAH, THAT WE AS A BOARD NEED TO JUST SHUT THAT DOWN AND HELP THEM OUT AND JUST SAY WHAT YOU'VE SUPPLIED US IS INSUFFICIENT FOR US TO RENDER A YAY OR NAY ON IT. YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY SUPPLY US WITH THE INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, PLACEHOLDERS. YEAH. NAPKIN. AND THEN I'LL GET YOU THE.

YEAH, YEAH, NO SMILEY FACE AND I'LL GET YOU THE REAL AGREED.

YES. SO SO I THINK THAT THE MORE WE CAN. IF WE I WOULD LIKE US TO TAKE A NOTE, A FOLLOW UP NOTE, IF YOU WILL, ON THAT PRE-APPLICATION MEETING AND HOW WE WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GOT IT RIGHT, WAS THAT IT'S NOT IN THE CODE THAT THAT'S REQUIRED RIGHT NOW FOR A STAFF APPROVAL.

RIGHT. ONLY CORRECT. OKAY. BUT IT IS REQUIRED FOR BOARD APPROVAL FOR ORDERS.

SO WHEN WHEN YOU TELL THEM THAT THIS IS WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE BOARD, MAYBE WE ALSO TELL THEM OR THE BOARD WON'T LISTEN, OR THE BOARD WON'T REVIEW IT, OR IT WON'T GO TO THE BOARD OR GET TO THE BOARD.

YEAH, I THINK IT HAS TO BE NOT GET TO THE BOARD.

NOT THAT WE'RE GOING TO DENY IT. ONCE IT GETS HERE, IT'S NOT GOING TO COME.

YEAH. AND MAYBE THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL NOTE. IF THE DOCUMENTATION PROVIDED IT'S INSUFFICIENT FOR BOARD REVIEW STAFF WILL, WHICH MEANS IT SHOULDN'T MAKE IT AN AGENDA. RIGHT? IT SHOULD NOT. AND IS THAT IS SAYING THAT. IS THERE A NEED TO DO ANY MORE THAN JUST SAY IT, LIKE CODIFY IT OR. I MEAN, ULTIMATELY, IF THEY WERE TO CONTINUE TO PUSH AND SAY, I, I AM GOING TO DEMAND OF YOU TO PUT THIS ON AN AGENDA.

THEY WOULD APPEAL IT TO THE BOARD, WHICH YOU WOULD THEN HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY.

THAT'S RIGHT. YOU HAVE PROVIDED INSUFFICIENT DOCUMENTATION.

SO IT SHOULDN'T EVEN GET TO US. BUT THERE'S JUST THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE THAT THOUGH.

NO, YOU'RE NOT READY. YOU'RE NOT READY. YOU'RE NOT READY. AND THEY'RE SAYING, BUT WE ARE READY, AND THIS IS ALL WE'RE WILLING TO DO. OH I SEE. THEIR RECOURSE WOULD BE TO APPEAL TO THE BOARD. IS THAT LEGALLY WHAT THEY HAVE? YES. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DO THEY? IN THE EVENT OF THEM NOT AGREEING WITH THE STAFF AS PART OF THE COA, THEY CAN APPEAL TO THE BOARD. BUT STAFF SAYS.

THE BOARD WON'T LISTEN TO IT. RIGHT. AND. AND THAT.

WELL, THEY WANT TO WASTE THEIR MONEY AND DO IT. THEY'RE MAKING THE APPLICATION TO YOU EITHER WAY.

AND THEN I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US THEN IF THAT HAPPENS, NOT FOR US TO SIT HERE AND HEM AND HAW AND LOOK AT IT.

WELL, WHAT IF YOU DID THIS? THAT'S IT. SORRY.

YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. AND, I MEAN, I'M HAPPY TO TALK.

I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, SO I'M VOTING NO. SO IF THERE ARE CASES LIKE THAT.

WELL, I THINK THERE'S GONNA BE ONE TONIGHT. IF THERE ARE CASES LIKE THAT, CAN WE NOTE THEM ON THE AGENDA? RIGHT. WHAT? INCOMPLETE.

INCOMPLETE REQUIREMENTS. I COULD DO THAT IN MY STAFF REPORT.

THAT'S WHERE IT SHOULD BE. OKAY. AND MAYBE LIKE PER THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT I'M PUSHING IT FORWARD SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU'RE JUST PUSHING IT FORWARD. YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S COOL. SO KELLY IS THE STAFF.

IS YOUR STAFF COMFORTABLE WITH SAYING NO TO SOMEBODY? YES. OKAY. PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

THIS IS YOUR ANSWER. NO, IT'S A COMPLETE SENTENCE.

YEAH. THAT'S IT. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

IT'S PRETTY CLEAR. SO? SO IF TWO THINGS, I THINK WE CAN ALSO MAKE THIS STRONGER WITH ON THAT ONLINE THEME WHERE WE SAID SUBMISSIONS, ALL MATERIALS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH MUST BE INCLUDED FOR APPLICATION TO BE CONSIDERED.

YOU CAN ADD SOMETHING LIKE IF IT'S NOT, YOU CAN POLISH THIS UP.

IF IT'S IF THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED, IT WILL NOT BE PASSED UPON, YOU KNOW, TO THE BOARD OR SOMETHING.

AND THEN ALSO ON THE SECOND BOX ON THE CHECKLIST, MAKE THAT STRONGER BECAUSE THE CHECKLIST JUST SAYS THE FOLLOWING MUST BE PROVIDED IN ORDER

[00:30:04]

YOU KNOW. IF IT'S NOT PROVIDED, IT WILL NOT BE HEARD BY THE BOARD.

AND THEN IF THEY WANT TO PUSH, THAT'S UP TO THEM.

YEAH, I WOULD SAY SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF IF NOT PROVIDED WOULD RESULT IN APPLICATION DELAY.

YEAH. DELAY OR DENIED. YEAH I MEAN OR LIKE YEAH.

YEAH. SOMETIMES YOU RISK DELAY AND OR DENIAL.

YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S THEIR RISK. THEY MAKE THE CALL.

AND I LIKE TO ADD MAYBE A POSITIVE ROUTE. YOU'RE IN THAT MOOD TODAY.

AS STAFF YOU CAN SAY TO THEM, HEY, IF YOU TAKE TEN MINUTES AND GIVE THEM A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION, YOU MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM TO SAY YES. RIGHT. SO LET'S MAKE IT EASY FOR THE BOARD TO SAY YES TO YOUR PROJECT BY GIVING THEM ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED TO REVIEW IT.

IT'S I THINK YEAH. AND I THINK THAT'S NOT WRITTEN, BUT THAT'S THE CONVERSATION THAT, YOU KNOW, GUIDES THEM TOWARDS APPROVAL. YEAH. AND I THINK LIKE 85% OF OUR CASES ARE GOOD.

AND I, I, I WOULD NOT BE THIS VOCAL IF THERE WERE PEOPLE IN HERE.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO COVER OUR BASES FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.

SO IT'S BLACK AND WHITE AND IT'S EASY TO UNDERSTAND.

AND THEN THESE GUYS AREN'T STUCK IN A BED. BUT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT PAST, WE HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES OF.

YES. YEAH. SO IT MAKES EVERYBODY'S LIFE EASIER, INCLUDING OURS, IF THEY FOLLOW THE THE RULES.

YEAH. AND THE REALITY IS WE'RE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, 3 OR 4, THREE, THREE REALLY GOOD ARCHITECTS.

RIGHT? YEAH. THAT ONE. TWO. AND THERE'S LIKE ANOTHER ONE THAT LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE.

AND YOU KNOW, DESIGNERS MAYBE FOUR THAT ARE REALLY GOOD AND THERE'S NEVER AN ISSUE.

YEAH, YEAH. AND THEN YOU'VE GOT LIKE A COUPLE THAT LIKE NEED A LITTLE.

YEAH. LIKE OVER THE FINISH LINE. WELL AND THEN YOU GET THE HOMEOWNERS THAT THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY DON'T KNOW.

AND THAT'S I THINK WHERE PART OF THIS FALLS IN.

YEAH. THE 8020 RULE. YEAH. OKAY. GOOD. I WILL JUST SAY ONE MORE THING REGARDING WHAT YOU SAID VERONICA ABOUT IS THIS.

DO THEY NEED TO HAVE EVERYTHING ON THIS LIST.

SOMETIMES TREES AREN'T REQUIRED. SOMETIMES THERE'S NOT.

IN ADDITION, SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT TOUCHING THE WINDOWS.

IF SOMEONE COMES TO ME WITH A STAFF APPROVAL AND IT'S LIKE WE'RE PAINTING OUR HOUSE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES ME A PICTURE OF THE HOUSE AND THE PAINT CHIPS. YEAH. SO I DO HAVE SOME LENIENCY ON STAFF REVIEW, BUT I'M COMMITTED TO GETTING WHAT Y'ALL EXPECT TO ME.

SO IF IT'S A BIGGER THING, THAT'S A STAFF APPROVAL.

I'M GOING TO EXPECT BETTER QUALITY MATERIALS AND ALL OTHER THAN YOU'RE TRYING TO CATCH UP TO, YOU KNOW YOU WILL NEVER CATCH UP. OKAY. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. NO, I'M GOING TO GUESS THAT WE'RE.

OKAY. THIS IS THE STAFF APPROVAL. IS THAT WHERE WE ARE? SO THIS IS THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL MATRIX.

[4.2 Discuss Certificate of Approval (COA) Matrix ]

AND WHAT WOULD BE AN HDC APPROVAL BASED ON CONTRIBUTING OR NON CONTRIBUTING STATUS OF A STRUCTURE.

AND VERONICA MADE SOME EDITS TO THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO AND SHARED IT WITH KELLY.

THAT WAS INCLUDED IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET ON ITEMS THAT SHE THINK SHOULD BE MOVED FROM A STAFF APPROVAL TO BOARD APPROVAL.

AND I WANTED TO HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK ON THAT. AND IF I SHOULD PRESENT AN EDITED MATRIX TO YOU GUYS AT THE NEXT MEETING.

CAN I GIVE A CONTEXT TO THIS? YEAH. YEAH. SO SO IN REVIEWING THIS AND I'VE GONE THROUGH THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES AND KIND OF FLIP FLOPPED A LITTLE BIT, BUT I APPRECIATE THAT THE THAT KELLY AND HER STAFF ARE, THEY'RE SHORT AND SHORT STAFFED AND AND AND AND MIA AND. NO, NO LIKE NEEDS MORE EXPERIENCE BECAUSE SHE JUST GOT HIRED.

AND I THINK IN THE EFFORT TO SUPPORT MIA AND THE STAFF, I THINK THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT PERHAPS SHOULD MOVE TOWARDS HDC APPROVAL.

AND MAYBE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING DIFFERENT WHERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE THERE'S MORE THINGS WHERE MIA OR WHOEVER IS IN HER PLACE AT THAT POINT HAS MORE EXPERIENCE. BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT THERE'S A FEW ITEMS THAT I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT MOVE TOWARDS HTC APPROVAL AND OR A COUPLE OF WORDS THAT CHANGE FROM LIKE OR TO END THAT HELP, YOU KNOW, DEFINE THIS.

SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE. IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE A COUPLE OF YEARS.

YEAH. WELL LET ME I'LL THROW IN SOME HISTORY OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. FOR CONTEXT TOO, BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER 5 OR 6 YEARS AGO, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS.

WE DID EXACTLY THIS OPERATION BECAUSE OUR HTC MEETINGS WERE JUST OVERFLOWED WITH STUFF NEW.

[00:35:01]

SO WHERE WHERE I DO AGREE WITH SOME SOME OF YOUR SENTIMENTS, VERONICA, I THINK PERHAPS A BETTER WAY TO HANDLE IT IS BY US ON THE BOARD SAYING, YOU GOT OUR PHONE NUMBER AND OUR EMAILS, MIA.

IF YOU ENCOUNTER A STAFF THING THAT HAS QUESTIONS OR NEEDS HELP, CALL ONE OF US AND WE CAN COME HELP AND HELP YOU REVIEW IT OR MAKE DECISIONS ON THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

AND THEN, I MEAN, WE'VE ALL SEEN HOW QUICKLY MIA PICKS THIS STUFF UP.

YEAH. VERY SOON. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. SHE'S NOT GOING TO NEED TO CALL US ANYTHING.

AND THAT ME THAT WAY. WE'RE NOT JUMPING, SHIFTING THINGS INTO HTC AND THEN BACK AT HTC.

THAT MAKES SENSE. YEAH, AND I THINK BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE THINGS IN HERE THAT STAFF COULD USE MORE DESCRIPTION AND GET. I WAS USING THIS TERMINOLOGY.

GIVE THEM SOME MORE TOOLS TO PUT IN THEIR TOOLBOX.

SO WHEN THEY ARE REVIEWING THESE, THEY CAN ACTUALLY BRING A LITTLE MORE TO THE EQUATION THAN JUST SAYING.

OH, A FENCE HAS TO BE WOOD. WELL, THAT'S NOT HELPING ANYTHING.

YEAH, IT NEEDS A LITTLE MORE DEFINITION AND MORE TOOLS AND TOOLBOX TO BE ABLE TO REALLY RENDER A THE CORRECT DECISION.

AGREED. BUT HOW MUCH DO WE HAVE TO LIKE TRAIN STAFF? I MEAN, I ONLY HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME.

AND I'M GOING TO GUESS THAT WE SORT OF ALL DO AS WELL.

SO WHERE I APPRECIATE THAT THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH TIME THAT CAN BE DEDICATED TO THIS, AND I'M WILLING TO DO EVERYTHING I CAN THAT I PHYSICALLY CAN DO, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK, YOU KNOW? YEAH.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO PUT, PUT IN WORK TO ANALYZE THOSE DESCRIPTIVE ELEMENTS THAT STAFF USES TO RENDER DECISIONS AND MAKE SURE THOSE ARE FINELY TUNED, HONED BECAUSE IT NEEDS WORK.

I HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME TO DIG INTO IT AND OFFER UP MY SUGGESTIONS ON THAT YET, BUT CERTAINLY.

DO EITHER OF YOU HAVE? AS YOU LOOK AT THIS, THIS CHART.

DO EITHER OF YOU HAVE A 1 OR 2 THINGS THAT JUMP OUT AT YOU RIGHT AWAY THAT NEED BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE TENSES.

OKAY. BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SOME TIME TO BE TAKEN TO REVIEW THIS AND REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED OR WHAT THE TRAINING OR TOOLS NEED TO BE.

SO ARE THERE ANY OF THESE ITEMS THAT WE RIGHT AWAY BESIDES FENCES ARE LOOKING AT THAT WE WOULD SAY TEMPORARILY TAKE THEM OFF THE STAFF APPROVAL. I MEAN, OVERALL, I THINK THERE'S LIKE MAYBE TEN THINGS IN TOTAL LIKE THAT.

THERE'S NOT A LOT HERE THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. I THINK THERE'S JUST A FEW THINGS THAT NEED TO CHANGE.

I THINK THE OTHER THING, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK PRAGMATICALLY OF OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE COME UP.

YEAH. AND ONE OF THE THINGS JUST RECENTLY I DON'T DO.

WE CALL IT A DECK OR A PORCH. SO AND WHEN WE HAVE DECKS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT REPLACING, REPAIRING OR ADDING A NEW ONE? SO THOSE ARE THREE VERY DIFFERENT SCENARIOS AND THEY WOULD REQUIRE DIFFERENT APPROVALS OF PEOPLE.

AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION THAT COMES UP IS OUR MATERIALS.

AND WHEN WHEN IT SAYS IN-KIND. SO WE'VE HAD A SITUATION RECENTLY WHERE A HISTORIC STRUCTURE HAD PREVIOUSLY, AT SOME POINT UNKNOWN, A DECK REPLACED THAT THE SMALL GAUGE DECKING MATERIAL REPLACED WITH NOT ONE BY SIX PRESSURE TREATED DECK BOARDS. SO WHEN THEY'RE NOW REPAIRING REPLACING IN-KIND, THEY'RE GOING BACK TO HOME DEPOT DECK BOARDS.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE THAT BACK TO THE ROOF.

AND WE LOST THAT. YEAH. YEAH. KNOW, THERE ARE A LITTLE A FEW GRAY AREAS THERE.

AND I'M NOT SURE HOW WE, YOU KNOW, A GUARD AGAINST SOME OF THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.

AND WHAT DOES IN-KIND MEAN? YEAH. OKAY. I'M. SO ARE YOU WANTING TO ADD TEXT? WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS, IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO RIGHT AWAY? YEAH. TO REMOVE FROM THIS MATRIX. TO MAKE EVERYBODY'S LIFE EASIER.

AND THEN ALSO WE CAN CHANGE SOME WORDING ON SOME OF THEM TO MAKE THEM MORE MEANINGFUL.

KELLY. JUST TO IN TERMS OF PROCESS. ONCE THESE CHANGES ARE MADE AND PRESENTED HERE THEY GO TO THE PLANNING BOARD AND THEN THE COMMISSION FOR TWO

[00:40:05]

SO YOU'RE OUT JANUARY FEBRUARY BEFORE IT'S IN PLACE.

IF THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES. LET'S SAY TO ADD A STYLE GUIDE, TO ADD A SOME OTHER DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THAT EXPECTATION IS. BEFORE THAT POINT, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO REALLY BE PROVIDING SOME DIRECTION WITH THAT FIRST SO THAT WE ARE ABLE TO MEET THOSE EXPECTATIONS BEFORE PUTTING THOSE CHANGES IN PLACE.

ARE ANY OF THE DESCRIPTIONS OF ANYTHING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TO MAKE LIFE CLEARER HERE IN THIS? THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY THERE TO ADD IT IN. YEAH.

WELL, WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS, IS THERE ANYTHING IN HERE RIGHT NOW THAT COULD PROVIDE THE TOOLS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? WELL, I THINK THE FLOORBOARDS IS A GREAT THE PORCH FLOORBOARDS IS A GREAT THING TO ADD IN.

I DON'T THINK THAT THAT DOCUMENT COVERS EITHER OF THOSE SCENARIOS WITH FENCES, OR THAT CHANGE IN MATERIAL WILL REALLY HAPPEN IN KIND IN THE WAY THAT THIS BOARD IS LOOKING FOR IT FORWARD TO. OKAY. SO IT WOULD NEED TO BE MODIFIED IN THAT DOCUMENT AND MODIFIED PROCEDURALLY HERE ABOUT WHAT THAT EXPECTATION IS. I JUST I WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.

I KNOW ONE OF THE OTHER ITEMS WE WANT TO DISCUSS IS MATERIAL, AND WHAT THE EXPECTATION FOR THAT IS BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A GRAY AREA RIGHT NOW.

I KNOW THAT WAS SOMETHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA TO GET TO.

I THINK ONE OTHER THING WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SUCCESS OR FAILURE WITH THIS.

SO IF, SAY, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO OUR HEART IS FENCES AND HOW THEY LOOK OR WHATEVER, LET'S EXTRAPOLATE THIS OUT. AND IT GOES TO THE PAB, WHICH IS A WHOLE NOTHER GROUP OF OPINIONS AND PEOPLE.

AND THEN IT GETS LANGUAGE FIED AND GOES TO THE COMMISSION.

THEY ENJOY OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. ARE THEY GOING TO SAY, YEAH, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO PAY 250 BUCKS TO HAVE THEIR FENCE REPLACED, OR THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, THAT'S A HARDSHIP. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? NO WE DON'T. LET LET STAFF APPROVE THAT. YOU KNOW, I DON'T I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A HARD A HARD SELL TO TO TO FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT REASONS. YOU KNOW WE TRIED TO MAKE THIS EASIER.

SO IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT TOOLS AND STYLE GUIDELINES FOR STAFF TO FOLLOW, WE CAN MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE APPLICANT.

LESS EXPENSIVE. AND WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE COMMISSION AND THIS BIG FIGHT OF WHY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEN THEN WE ALMOST CREATE ANIMOSITY AGAINST, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

DON'T PAINT YOUR HOUSE THE WRONG COLOR. YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE A CHAMPION, NOT A HINDRANCE.

YEAH. IS THERE A WAY WE CAN INCLUDE LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING LIKE A STYLE GUIDE THAT'S LIKE A THREE PAGER.

THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD DESIGN YOUR FENCE. IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO REPLACE IT SHOULDN'T IT JUST BE IN THE GUIDELINES? YEAH. OKAY. SHOULD BE IN THERE.

AND THEN WHAT'S IN THE GUIDELINES NOW? AND DO YOU GUYS REFER THE GUIDELINES? I REFER TO THE GUIDELINES WITH EVERYTHING THAT I DO.

IT'S FOR FENCES. IT'S PRETTY VAGUE HONESTLY. IT'S MATERIALS.

AND THE MAIN TAKEAWAY IS NOT VINYL AND NOT CHAIN LINK.

YEAH, CORRECT. IT'S PRETTY BROAD. YEAH. YEAH.

IT'S CHIP AND I SPOKE IN THE PAST. IT'S ALL ABOUT CONTEXT TOO.

YEAH. WHICH HOUSE ARE YOU PUTTING THE FENCE? OPINION? YEAH. WHAT STYLE IS IT? IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THAT. SO, YEAH, IT NEEDS A LITTLE MORE BEEF SO THAT IT'S NOT MAKING A MORE EDUCATED DECISION.

OKAY. SO AT THIS POINT, WHAT I'M HEARING IS SET BECAUSE WE'VE ONLY GOT 15 MINUTES LEFT.

AT THIS POINT, WHAT I'M HEARING, I SAY IS THAT WE WANT TO LEAVE THIS THE WAY IT IS FOR NOW AND BEEF UP THE GUIDELINES AS PART OF THIS DOCUMENT. BUT I THINK VERONICA DID HAVE SOME GOOD THINGS IN THERE.

MAYBE WE COULD JUST RUN DOWN. YEAH. WE CAN. THAT THING REAL QUICK.

LIKE WHERE SHE PUTS. AND I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

LET'S CHANGE THE LANGUAGE THERE TO MAKE THESE CHANGES.

DO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT WHOLE PROCESS YOU JUST DESCRIBED? YES. EVEN. AND OR COMMA. YES. BECAUSE. ACTUALLY, IT MAKES A MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE THERE.

YEAH IT DOES. SCENARIO IF THE DOOR OR GARAGE DOOR IS NOT THE SAME MATERIAL AND THE SAME STYLE AND THE SAME SIZE, THEN IT WOULD MODIFY TO SEIZE IT. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS OR SO THAT I MEAN IN THE, IN THE OR SCENARIO YOU COULD CHANGE THE, YOU COULD, YOU COULD TOTALLY MODIFY THE SIZE OF THE OPENING AND NOT GO TO THE HTC.

I GOT A TWO CAR GARAGE. OR YOU MIGHT GET A SINGLE GIRL.

[00:45:02]

BUT IT SAYS CHANGE AN OPENING ON THE MAIN FACADE.

IF YOU'RE ENLARGING AND OPENING THAT STAGE, YOU SEE.

THAT'S RIGHT. AND THAT'S AN OPENING. RIGHT? A CHANGE ON THE MAIN OPENING OF AN OPENING.

WELL, THAT'S A WINDOW OR A DOOR, AND YOU'RE INCREASING IT ON THE MAIN FACADE.

IT COMES TO YOU. THAT COVERS THE GARAGE PART.

MAYBE THE SIZE SHOULD JUST BE STRICKEN FROM THAT ITEM ONE.

BECAUSE IF YOU CHANGE THE SIZE, IT'S ACTUALLY AN ITEM THREE ON A ONE.

YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT. SO CHANGING THE STYLE OF ANY DOOR IS OKAY TO GO THROUGH STAFF APPROVAL AS IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN.

SO I COULD HAVE A HISTORICAL I COULD TAKE THE WILLIAMS HOUSE, I CAN PULL OUT MY 1856 DOORS AND I COULD PUT STORE FRONT GLASS DOORS IN THERE, SAME SIZE. AND THAT'S WHERE THIS COMES IN. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. NO, NO, NO, I'M JUST QUESTIONING. ALL RIGHT. SO. ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE THOSE ADDITIONAL TOOLS. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT DECISION MAKING WHEN IT COMES TO STAFF.

AND ULTIMATELY, IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH MAKING THAT DECISION, IT GOES TO THE BOARD.

YES, BUT AND AND AND KELLY, YOU BRING UP A GREAT POINT.

AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT JUST DISRESPECTFUL FOR ME, IT'S FOR JUST HER LACK OF EXPERIENCE AT THIS POINT THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE STAFF FEEL IS UNDERSTANDS TOTALLY WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.

AND SO YOU DON'T HAVE SOMEONE WITH YEARS OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION EXPERIENCE UNDERSTANDING OR UNDERSTANDING CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THINGS DO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS.

AND IT'S NOT AT ANY IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S JUST YOU'RE GOING TO GET THERE.

IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE TIME FOR YOU TO GET THERE, YOU KNOW? SO THAT'S WHERE I THINK THAT THAT SOME OF THIS BECOMES AN ISSUE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE STAFF IS AND I DON'T THINK THE STAFF IS TOTALLY QUALIFIED TO DO THIS. SO. OKAY. WHAT ABOUT FOR A FRIEND HERE.

YEAH. YEAH. NO THAT'S AND THAT'S A GREAT POINT. YEAH. DO YOU KNOW THIS OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD I SHOULD KNOW THIS BUT I DON'T.

DO WE. HOW MANY BUILDINGS DO WE HAVE IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT.

OH GOSH I USED TO KNOW THAT. I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY BUILDINGS WE HAVE WON AND HOW MANY ARE CONTRIBUTING AND HOW MANY ARE NON GREAT.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK I HAD A FEW QUESTIONS ON THIS WHERE IT WAS JUST A STAFF APPROVAL.

IT WAS IF IT WAS A NON CONTRIBUTING. YEAH. SOME NON CONTRIBUTING.

QUITE FINE STRUCTURE. YES. ABSOLUTELY. DID 1 OR 2 LITTLE THINGS THAT I WOULD NOT BE COMFORTABLE WITH.

STAFF APPROVING A WHOLE NEW FRONT PORCH. YEP.

JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT BEGINNING. OKAY. I WILL SAY ONE OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT ME AND I HAVE HAD IS FOR THOSE NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES THAT ARE HISTORIC STRUCTURES, THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME CONTRIBUTING AGAIN.

SO HOW DO WE VIEW THAT WHEN LOOKING AT MATERIAL CHANGES? LOOKING AT THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING WITH THE GENERAL SWEEP OF THAT PARTICULAR STRUCTURE, THEY'RE CHANGING OUT THEIR FINAL SIDING.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE NOW. WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE SIDING? IF YOU KNOW WHATEVER WAS UNDERNEATH IT IS NOT IN GOOD CONDITION.

HOW DO WE DO THAT? THOSE ARE JUST SOME QUESTIONS.

BUT THERE ARE REAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE RIGHT BUYER COMES IN AND THEY ACTUALLY WANT TO BE GENUINE ABOUT KEEPING UP WITH THAT STRUCTURE.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO EVALUATE YOU WOULD HAVE TO EVALUATE IT TO GET IT CONTRIBUTING AGAIN.

WE WOULD REDO THE MASTER FILE OKAY. DO IT AGAIN.

AND THAT COULD BE A LOCAL REVIEW. OR DO YOU HAVE TO CALL IT OKAY.

YEAH I THINK THAT WOULD THAT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD TO KNOW.

EVEN IF WE HAD A MAP THAT SHOWED A COLOR CODED THAT WE HAD LEFT THE TOPIC NON CONTRIBUTING, I LOVE IT. YEAH, THAT WOULD BE WHAT I, WHAT I AND I BELIEVE HAS BEEN STATED HERE A COUPLE OF TIMES, IS THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGES ON THIS THING, BUT WE BETTER MAKE SURE THAT THE TOOLS THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED ARE SOMEWHERE, WHETHER IT'S IN A SEPARATE STYLE GUIDE OR WHETHER IT'S ALL IN HERE, WE NEED TO DO THAT BEFORE WE MAKE ANY CHANGES HERE.

I THINK YOU SHOULD CONSIDER THAT. AND THEN YES, IF YOU NEED TO MAKE CHANGES TO THAT DOCUMENT, BY ALL MEANS WE HAVE TO ADD KIOSKS. WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THE BOARD IS A SENSE OF URGENCY AND GETTING SOME THINGS CHANGED QUICKLY.

YES, THERE NEEDS TO BE ANOTHER AVENUE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

FIRST, DON'T YOU THINK WE NEED TO ADD KIOSKS? YES. OKAY. YEAH. CAN I JUST SUGGEST IT? JUST IN CASE WE'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THIS DOCUMENT UNTIL WE ARE SURE OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING, AND WE'RE SURE THAT WE HAVE WHATEVER MATERIALS STAFF NEEDS

[00:50:04]

THAT'S MY POINT. BUT I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT ARE LIKE THAT COULD EASILY BE CHANGED.

SO LIKE WHEN WE JUMP TO THE SECOND PAGE MECHANICAL SYSTEMS WITH VISUAL IMPACT, HTC APPROVAL, IT'S ON THE IT'S ON THE SECOND PAGE OF THAT DOCUMENT.

IF WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE MECHANICAL SYSTEM, THEN THE SCREENING FOR THAT SHOULD BE HTC APPROVAL.

YEAH I ACTUALLY I'VE, I BROUGHT THIS UP A COUPLE TIMES BEFORE.

I, I'D LOVE TO HAVE A WIDER RANGING DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE WHEN I DID SOME WORK FOR GARDEN STREET BISTRO, THE, THE, THE SCREEN NECESSARY TO COVER THE MECHANICAL FROM VIEW ENDS UP MAKING LOOKING BIGGER THAN THE BUILDING ARE SITTING ON TOP.

YEAH, IT'S IT MAKES THE WHOLE THING LOOK LOPSIDED AND WEIRD.

SO SOMETIMES OUR RULES MAY BE DRIVING SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN.

OKAY. WE CLEARLY HAVE A LOT MORE DISCUSSION. YEAH, I MEAN, WE COULD DO IT ON THE WORKSHOP.

YEAH. AND WHAT I'M SAYING AT THIS POINT IS WE'RE GOING TO WRAP UP DISCUSSION ON THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT BECAUSE WE'VE COME TO THE DETERMINATION.

WE CAN'T CHANGE IT TODAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

ON TO THE NEXT. WE HAVE EIGHT MINUTES. WE DON'T HAVE WE HAVE TO END AT LEAST LIKE THREE MINUTES BEFORE.

SO MORGAN CAN GET EVERYTHING SWITCHED OVER FOR THE REGULAR MEETING.

HAVE FIVE MINUTES. SO WE'RE GOING TO DO A WORKSHOP ON THIS AGAIN.

OR WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW THE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES IN ORDER TO MODIFY THIS.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH THAT.

NOW LET ME ASK YOU WHAT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS PAGE THAT YOU WANTED TO GET TO IN THIS MEETING THAT YOU HAVE TO GET TO TODAY? ROOF MATERIALS. SOMEONE COULD PULL OFF A METAL ROOF AND CHANGE IT TO ASPHALT SHINGLES.

IT'S BEEN STAFF APPROVAL. IT'S BEEN DONE. OKAY, WAIT A MINUTE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ON THE STAFF APPROVAL? YES. I'M ASKING. OH, SORRY. WHETHER STAFF NEEDED SOMETHING PARTICULAR TODAY.

DONE. NOT PARTICULARLY TODAY. I WANT YOU ALL TO CONSIDER EVERYTHING THAT I INCLUDED IN THE AGENDA PACKET.

BUT WE HAVE TIME FOR THAT. OKAY. GIVEN THE FACT THAT ANY CHANGES WE MAKE TO THIS FORM, NUMBER ONE HAVE TO GO TO THE PAB AND THEN THE COMMISSION.

RIGHT. WE CAN'T MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THIS FORM WITHOUT THAT MATRIX.

RIGHT? RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX OF A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY OKAY.

SO NOW WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT IN ORDER TO FINISH DISCUSSION ABOUT THESE AND ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THESE ARE RIGHT, WE NEED TO HAVE A SEPARATE MEETING. AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT IN AN HOUR.

I CAN GUARANTEE THAT. THIS MOMENT. YEAH. WE NEED TO BE LOCKED IN A ROOM FOR, LIKE, STARTED NICE.

AND WE DON'T GET OUT UNTIL WE'RE DONE. OKAY. IT'S IT'S STRANGE THAT IT'S GOING TO BE THAT LONG WITH FOOD AND WATER, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO WANDER OFF INTO NEVERLAND IN OUR DISCUSSIONS.

WE'RE GOING TO STAY ON POINT. YEAH, OR BECAUSE I'M OLD NOW AND I'M LOSING MY PATIENCE FOR THAT.

SO REALLY? YES. SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

IS EVERYBODY IN AGREEMENT FOR A FULL DAY MEETING? ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. WE JUST HAVE TO FIND THE TIME TO MAKE IT A RETREAT A RETREAT.

LET'S GO RETREAT. DO IT. WE CAN HAVE ALCOHOL.

MAYBE THE LAST HOUR AS A REWARD. LAST HOUR. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'LL DO.

WHAT? I JUST VOLUNTEERED TO BRING IT. OKAY, I HAVE WE'RE DOING THIS TOMORROW.

NO, I WILL, I'LL SUMMARIZE THE OTHER TWO THINGS I WANT TO TALK ABOUT REALLY QUICKLY SO YOU GUYS CAN TAKE SOME MORE TIME AND LOOK AT THOSE.

THE DOOR SURVEY. I DIDN'T REALLY CHANGE ANY MEAT OF THAT DOCUMENT BESIDES THE DRAWING THAT JIM PROVIDED ME WITH.

[4.3 Window Survey & Door Survey]

IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY SOURCES OR RESEARCH SUGGESTIONS THAT I CAN USE TO TRY TO CREATE THAT, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT. AND WE CAN DISCUSS THAT AT A LATER DATE.

AND ALSO I WANTED TO DISCUSS THE SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS PRESERVATION BRIEF BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR.

[4.4 Substitute Materials]

THIS CAME OUT IN 2024. SO VERY RECENTLY TALKING ABOUT ON WHAT GROUNDS SHOULD SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS BE CONSIDERED IN PRESERVATION PROJECTS? SO JUST TAKE YOUR TIME TO REVIEW THAT AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO WITH THAT INFORMATION? JUST BE AWARE OF IT OR WHAT? BE AWARE OF IT. AND IF WE NEED ANOTHER, LIKE.

LIKE HOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR FENCES, LIKE A STYLE GUIDE OR SOME TOOL THAT I COULD USE IF SOMETHING COMES IN FOR EITHER HCC BOARD APPROVAL OR STAFF APPROVAL,

[00:55:09]

OKAY. YES. AND I CAN DO THAT SAME LIKE DOODLE POLL THAT I'VE BEEN SENDING OUT WHERE EVERYONE KIND OF CLICKS THE DAYS THAT THEY'RE AVAILABLE DAYS AND TIMES.

AND THEN I'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE FIND ONE THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE. ALL RIGHT.

OKAY. THANK YOU, MIA. AND THANK ALL OF YOU. WE HAVE A BREAK, FOUR MINUTE BREAK.

SO WE'RE NOT DOING THIS TONIGHT.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.