>> CALL TO ORDER MEETING OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL, MAY 15TH.
[00:00:06]
PLEASE JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.>> THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY EX-PARTE COMMUNICATIONS TO TALK ABOUT? MS. BYRNES.
>> YEAH. I HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE FERNANDINA OF BEACH DESIGN COUNCIL REGARDING HDC 20250007, E-MAILS WITH THE CITY REGARDING HDC 2025-009, AND CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. PEARSON ABOUT HIS PROJECT HDC 2025-0008.
>> I HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE OWNERS OF 30 SOUTH THIRD ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS ABOUT THEIR PROJECT.
AND THEN I RAN INTO MR. PEARSON AT WICKET BOW, AND WE HAD A LOVELY CONVERSATION ABOUT HIS PROJECT.
>> DID YOU HAVE A GOOD ADDENDUM?
>> I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE ARCHITECT ON 0008 AND WITH STAFF AND MAIN STREET ON 0007.
>> I TALKED TO STAFF ABOUT EVERYTHING BUT THIS.
MR. POOLE, THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL SESSION, AND OUR ATTORNEY WILL TELL YOU WHAT THAT MEANS.
>> CAN I INTERRUPT FIRST AND JUST SAID DO YOU WANT TO DO THE ROLL CALL FOR THE RECORD?
>> I DON'T KNOW. JUST FOR THE RECORD SAKE.
>> COULD YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE?
>> YES. VERY GOOD. FOR THOSE ITEMS ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA THAT WILL BE GOVERNED BY OUR QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES, THAT MEANS THAT ANY DECISION OF THIS COUNCIL MUST BE SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
THAT EVIDENCE MAY BE PRESENTED IN THE FORM OF TESTIMONY OR DOCUMENTARY, OR PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE AS WELL.
ANY PERSON THAT'S INTENDING TO TESTIFY TONIGHT WILL NEED TO BE SWORN BY THE CLERK, AND ANY PERSON TESTIFYING WOULD BE SUBJECT TO ANY CROSS-EXAMINATION, WHETHER IT'S THE STAFF OR THE APPLICANT, OR ANY OTHER PEOPLE PROVIDING TESTIMONY.
ANY PERSON THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE DECISION TONIGHT WILL HAVE 30 DAYS TO FILE AN APPEAL WITH THE NASSAU COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT, AND THAT 30 DAYS STARTS UPON THE ORDER BEING SIGNED BY THE CHAIR.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES IN EFFECT THIS EVENING? I'M SEEING NONE.
>> IF YOU EXPECT TO TESTIFY, WOULD YOU PLEASE RISE AND TAKE THE OATH?
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> VERY GOOD. DID EVERYBODY HAVE A CHANCE TO READ ALL THE MINUTES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT?
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES ]
FIRST ONE IS A REGULAR MEETING MINUTES.ANY COMMENTS, CHANGES, QUESTIONS?
>> MOVE BY KOSACK, SECOND BY POZZETTA.
ARE YOU GOING TO CALL THE ROLL? YES, MA'AM.
>> ARE YOU SURE YOU GUYS NEED THE ALL IN FAVOR? [LAUGHTER]
>> YES. JUST GOT OFF VACATION, I'M NOT WITH IT. HERE WE GO.
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE WALKABOUT, WHICH LOOK LIKE IT WAS QUITE GOOD, I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO DO THAT, BUT IT SEEMS PRETTY PRODUCTIVE.
THANK YOU MIA, FOR DOING THIS.
>> I WILL SAY, I HAVE A SLIDE DESK THAT WENT ALONG WITH THE MINUTES, AND I RECEIVED COMMENTS FROM MR. POZZETTA AND MS. [INAUDIBLE] BYRNES.
A FEW CHANGES IN TYPOS IN THERE.
I KNOW MEMBER KOSACK HAS SOME NOTES FOR ME AS WELL.
[00:05:02]
WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT, OR I GUESS CAN SEND ME YOUR NOTES AND I'LL MAKE CHANGES TO THOSE POWERPOINTS.THAT'S JUST MORE OF A RESOURCE FOR IT.
I KNOW MS. HEATHER WANTED TO BE THERE, AND FOR OTHERS WHO WANTED TO BE THERE, AND ALSO FOR ME TO LOOK BACK IN REFERENCE TO UNDERSTAND WINDOW CONDITIONS AND FORMS AND THE HISTORY ABOUT THEM.
BUT I AM MAKING EDITS TO THAT POWERPOINT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S OFFICIALLY INCLUDED IN THE MINUTES.
>> OKAY. JUST SO EVERYBODY'S AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.
WE'VE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS HERE ABOUT THE TYPES OF WINDOWS THAT WE HAVE OUT HERE IN OUR HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND HOW THEY MUST BE TREATED AND CARED FOR, AND THEN ALSO WHEN AT THE LAST BREATH OF SOME BUILDING, THE WINDOWS SHOULD BE GIVEN AWAY OR TAKEN OUT.
THIS WALKABOUT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD TO WALK WITH MR. POZZETTA, TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF WINDOWS THAT WE HAVE IN ALL OF OUR DOWNTOWN AREA, THE BUSINESS AREA.
>> GUEST MIRANDA. HE WAS OUR CO-HOST.
>> MR. MIRANDA WAS THE CO-HOST.
WELL, THANK YOU, SIR, FOR GIVING YOUR TIME.
>> DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THESE MINUTES?
>> SAME PEOPLE AS BEFORE. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
>> YES. WE'RE ON TO OLD BUSINESS,
[4.1 HDC2025-0002 - MICHAEL STAUFFER ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR TODD AND SOODI BROWN, 30 S. 3RD STREET FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to construct a 2-story garage and accessory dwelling unit (ADU), install a new fence, and install paver driveway and walkways. (Quasi-Judicial).]
HDC 2025-0002, 30 SOUTH THIRD.>> YES. THIS IS OUR FIRST CASE UNDER OLD BUSINESS, AND THE APPLICANT IS RETURNING FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A GARAGE AND ADU AT A SECTION OF THE FENCE AND INSTALL PAPERS TO COMPLETE THEIR DRIVEWAY AT 30 SOUTH THIRD.
IN THE MARCH MEETING, THIS PRODUCT EARNED CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND FEW COMMENTS WERE MADE ABOUT THE DESIGN AND SITE PLAN, BUT OVERALL WAS RECEIVED POSITIVELY BY THE BOARD.
NOW THAT THE PLANS ARE SOLIDIFIED, THE APPLICANT WISHES TO MOVE FORWARD WITH FINAL APPROVAL.
ON THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE ELEVATIONS OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AS WELL AS THE LOCATION OF THE HOME ON THE CORNER OF SOUTH THIRD AND ASH STREET.
THEN I HAVE A GREEN BOX AROUND THAT ADDITION ON THEIR SITE PLAN.
I THINK THAT WAS ALL I HAD FOR THAT CASE, AND STUFF RECOMMENDING FINAL APPROVAL.
>> GOOD EVENING. MICHAEL STAUFFER, ARCHITECT 422 SOUTH SIXTH STREET.
IF YOU REMEMBER FROM THAT MEETING, WE DID COME THROUGH WITH TWO APPLICATIONS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ONE PROJECT.
THE FIRST WAS FOR FINAL APPROVAL OF THE SWIMMING POOL AND A COUPLE IN THE POOL DECK AND THE FENCE IN THE BACK, AND THE OTHER WAS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE ADU.
AS PER REQUESTED, I DON'T HAVE A INVENTORY OF EVERYTHING, BUT SOME MATERIALS WERE SAVED FROM THE GARAGE.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT CAPACITY THEY'LL BE USED AT THIS TIME, BUT AS WE GET INTO THAT, AND IF YOU HAVE MORE SPECIFICS, WE CAN GIVE YOU A LIST OF THINGS THAT WERE SAVED.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE REQUESTS FROM YOU GUYS.
THE OTHER WORK IS STARTED, IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN BY, THE FENCE HAS BEEN PARTIALLY CONSTRUCTED, THE POOL IS LAID OUT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE POOL WILL START BEING DUG MAYBE AS EARLY AS TOMORROW.
WE'RE HERE ON THE SECOND PIECE, WHICH WAS FOR THE ADU TO GO AHEAD AND GET FINAL APPROVAL FOR THAT SO WE CAN PROCEED TO BUILDING PERMIT AND GET THAT BUILT AS SOON AS THE POOL HOLE IS DUG.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
ESSENTIALLY, IT'S IDENTICAL TO WHAT IT WAS IN THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
>> ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR EITHER MIA OR FOR MR. STAUFFER? MS. BYRNES.
>> I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION, AND THIS IS PROBABLY AN EASY ONE.
IT SAYS ON THE ASH STREET SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, WHERE YOU'RE ADDING TO THE EXISTING FENCE.
I'M JUST CURIOUS. IT SAYS DETERMINATE FIELD.
ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE THE WHITE POST AND RAIL FENCE ALONG WITH THE LITTLE BRICK OF WALL?
>> THAT'S CORRECT FOR ABOUT JUST A COUPLE OF PANELS MORE.
UNTIL WE GET TO THE BACK WHERE WE'RE REVERTING BACK TO THE OTHER FENCE.
>> UNDERSTOOD. YEAH. JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. THANK YOU. THE DESIGN IS BEAUTIFUL.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THANK YOU, SIR.
>> IT'S HOW WE LIKE THEM. [LAUGHTER]
>> THANK YOU. BOARD DISCUSSION OR MOTION.
>> WE LIKED IT WHEN IT CAME THROUGH FOR CONCEPTUAL, WE ASKED HIM NOT TO CHANGE IT TOO MUCH.
I DON'T SEE ANY CHANGES, EXCEPT FOR THE STYLE OF THE PLAN.
WENT FROM A SKETCHY TO AN ACTUAL PLAN.
[LAUGHTER] I THINK IT LOOKS EXCELLENT, AND I'M PREPARED TO MAKE A MOTION IF EVERYBODY AGREES.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER 2025-002 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
[00:10:05]
I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.THAT HDC CASE HDC 2025-002, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
>> CAN I SAY BEFORE YOU VOTE, I GOT A NOTE FROM KELLY THAT SAYS THAT MEMBER PSULKOWSKI NEEDS TO PUBLICLY RECUSE HIMSELF FROM VOTING, AND THE BOARD NEEDS TO SEAT AN ALTERNATE MEMBER.
>> NOW, WE NEED TO SEAT MS. BYRNES.
>> NO. I WAIVE MY [INAUDIBLE] MAGIC WAND.
[LAUGHTER] LET'S GO FORWARD, PLEASE. CALL THE ROLL.
>> YES. WE'RE NOW ON HDC 2025-006.
[4.2 HDC 2025-0006 - JOHN DODD ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR CAROL MCKINNON, 107 ESTRADA STREET FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to construct a 2-story single-family residence with a 2-story detached accessory dwelling unit (ADU). (Quasi-Judicial).]
CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT PROJECT.>> OUR SECOND ITEM UNDER OLD BUSINESS IS CASE HBC 2025-0006.
THE APPLICANT IS RETURNING FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO-STORY SINGLE-FAMILY HOME AND A TWO-STORY ADU GARAGE ON A VACANT PARCEL ON THE CORNER OF ESTRADA AND GARDEN STREET.
THE APPLICANT HAS RETURNED TO THE COUNCIL FROM APRIL MEETING WHEN THEY WERE GIVEN FEEDBACK ON THE PROPOSED PROJECT.
SINCE THEN, THE ARCHITECT, MR. JOHN DODD, HAS MADE A FEW CRITICAL CHANGES TO THE PLAN.
THIS IS THE UPDATED EAST ELEVATION AS WELL AS THE LOCATION OF THE PARCEL.
THEN ON THIS SLIDE, IT BREAKS DOWN THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE TO THE PLANS, INCLUDING CONNECTING ELEMENT IS MORE EMPHASIZED AND INDICATED BY AN EXTENDED FORGE AND A CRUSHED SHELL PATH.
THE ROOF LINE MORE CLEARLY MARKS THE PEONIA AND MID-LOT VISIBILITY CORRIDOR, AND DETAIL HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE FACADES TO BREAK UP THE WALLS THAT WERE COMPLETELY LAP SIDING.
KELLY AND I WORKED WITH MR. DODD TO BRING THE PLANTS INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE OLD TOWN PRESERVATION GUIDELINES, WHICH INCLUDED THE FACT THAT THE PORCHES AND CONNECTING ELEMENTS ARE NOT INCORPORATED INTO THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE RATIO, AND THEREFORE, DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE MAXIMUM LOT COVERAGE, WHICH IS 45%.
THE CALCULATION IS HIGHLIGHTED ON THE BOTTOM LEFT CORNER FOR THE BOARD TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
THEN MR. DODD ALSO INDICATED THAT THE PEONIA LINE ON THE PLANS TO JUSTIFY THE PORCH BEING EXTENDED INTO THE MID-LOT VISIBILITY CORRIDOR.
YOU CAN SEE THIS PEONIA LINE, AND THEN THE PORCH COMES OUT AND EXTENDS ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
THIS ACTS AS THE CONNECTING ELEMENT, AS WELL AS THIS CRUSHED SHELL PATH.
THEN ON THIS SLIDE, I PULLED THE SOUTHWEST AND THE NORTHEAST PERSPECTIVES.
THEN GIVEN THESE AMENDMENTS TO THE MATERIALS AND THE PLAN, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL FOR HDC 2025-006.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? IS THE APPLICANT HERE, MR. DODD? COME ON UP.
>> GOOD EVENING. JOHN DODD, 2775 RACHEAL AVE. GLAD TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.
>> CAN YOU JUST SUMMARIZE FOR US WHAT YOU DID?
>> I'VE BEEN BROUGHT UP TO SPEED ON THE PEONIA AND THE CORRIDOR, AND I THINK WE SATISFIED IT IN [INAUDIBLE] AND MIA.
ADDED THE BAND TO TRY AND BREAK UP THE DETACHED ACCESSORY IN TERMS OF A HEIGHT.
WE LOOKED AT SOME ROOF SHAPES WITH THE OWNERS AND SOME WINDOW ALTERNATES, BUT WE DECIDED TO STICK WITH AS CURRENTLY SUBMITTED.
>> UH-HUH. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. DODD?
>> I THINK YOUR CHANGES HAVE BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE IN ADDRESSING THE ITEMS THAT WE LAID OUT TO YOU.
NOW, I FEEL LIKE THE ARCHITECTURE DIRECTLY ADDRESSES THAT [INAUDIBLE] PEONIA, THE CRUSHED SHELL PATH ADDRESSES LINKING THOSE ELEMENTS TOGETHER, THE REAR PORCH AND THE ACCESSORY BUILDING.
I THINK ADDING IN THAT LITTLE BIT OF BELT TRIM RUN THROUGH THE MIDDLE ALONG THAT BACKSIDE HELPS BREAK DOWN THE HEIGHT OF THAT ACCESSORY BUILDING.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THERE HAD BEEN A QUESTION ABOUT LOT COVERAGE, BUT WE'RE GOOD NOW.
[00:15:01]
>> IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET, I PULLED OUT THREE PAGES FROM THE OLD TOWN PRESERVATION GUIDELINES.
>> THE 2021 VERSION, SO THAT'S WHAT I USE USUALLY TO EXPLAIN STUFF AND ANALYZE THINGS.
THAT'S WHERE ME AND KELLY READ AND RECONFIRMED THAT, TO CONNECT THE ELEMENTS PORCHES.
BASICALLY ANYTHING THAT'S NOT CONDITIONED IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE LOT COVERAGE.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-0006 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE HDC 2025-0006 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE OLD TOWN FERNANDINA PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> MOTION AND A SECOND, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
[5.1 HDC 2025-0009 - RICE ARCHITECTS, AGENT FOR BILLIE STILLWELL LIVING TRUST, 27 S. 5TH STREET FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to remove an existing shed, add an ADA ramp, relocate an existing door at the rear of the property, and repaint the exterior structure. (Quasi-Judicial). ]
WE'RE ON TO HDC 2025-0009.THANK YOU, MR. DODD, THANK YOU.
>> WE'VE GOT THREE CASES UNDER YOUR NEW BUSINESS TONIGHT.
THE FIRST ONE WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING IS HDC 2025-0009.
BEFORE I GET INTO THIS CASE, I WANT TO POINT OUT AN ERROR ON THE STAFF REPORT.
JUST BECAUSE THE WAY I DO THESE IS I COPY OVER THE LAST ONE I DID AND THEN FILL IN THE NEW INFORMATION.
THERE'S AN ERROR AND IT SAYS, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL IS TO CONSTRUCT A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE AND ACCESSORY ADU, THAT IS INCORRECT, AND IT SHOULD SAY SEEKING APPROVAL TO CONVERT A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE INTO COMMERCIAL USE, DEMOLISH THE SHED, AND RELOCATE THE REAR DOOR AS WELL AS ADD AN ADA-COMPLIANT RAMP.
THIS IS WHAT THIS APPLICANT IS HERE TODAY.
THIS SLIDE IS THE PICTURE OF THE SHED THAT IS PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED AND IT'S THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY.
ACCORDING TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S WEBSITE THE SHED WAS CONSTRUCTED IN THE 1960S AND IS NOT CONSIDERED HISTORIC, AND I WENT OVER THERE TODAY AND TOOK.
I JUST SAW A FEW ADDITIONAL PHOTOS OF THE INSIDE AND THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DEMO THE SHED.
THEN THESE ARE SOME RENDERINGS OF THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING TO INCLUDE THE ADA RAMP, AS WELL AS PAINT SAMPLES.
I'D LIKE TO INVITE [INAUDIBLE] QUESTIONS.
>> ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, FIRST?
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION, BECAUSE THOSE OF US THAT KNEW THAT ADDRESS WHEN IT SAID NEW SINGLE-FAMILY. [LAUGHTER].
>> MARK AKINS WITH RICE ARCHITECT IN FERNANDINA BEACH.
HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.
>> AGAIN, CAN YOU JUST GIVE US A LITTLE SUMMARY OF YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING?
>> ABSOLUTELY. THIS PROPERTY BEING A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE IS OBVIOUSLY A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
IT'S BEEN HERE A LONG TIME. THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE SPOT.
IT'S GOING TO BE CONVERTED AND IS ZONED SO THAT IT CAN BE CONVERTED INTO COMMERCIAL USE AS OUR CLIENT, SARAH HERE AS SHE AND HER HUSBAND INTEND TO OPEN AND OPERATE A COFFEE PASTRY SHOP HERE.
FOR OUR PURPOSES, SHE SUMMARIZED IT PRETTY WELL.
I DID SEE A NOTE IN ONE OF THE EMAILS FROM SOMEONE ASKING ABOUT ADA COMPLIANCE INSIDE.
OF COURSE, THAT WILL NEED TO BE MET.
WE DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR OVER OUR SKIS, BUT INDEED FOR THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ADA RAMP OR SOME TYPE OF ACCESS.
REALLY TWO MAIN THINGS IS THAT THE ADA RAMP AND THE PROPOSED COLORS OF THE EXTERIOR.
WITH THE ADA RAMP, WE DO ALSO HAVE CLEARANCE FOR THAT.
WE DID PROVIDE UPDATED DIMENSIONS ON THAT FOR YOU, SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT WE DO HAVE THE RISING RUN THAT WE NEED TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
THERE IS AN EXISTING STAIR INTO THE HOUSE RIGHT ON THAT SIDE AND WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THAT IN PLACE, BUILD OVER IT.
IMMEDIATELY TO THE LEFT, YOU CAN SEE THIS ADA RAMP HERE.
[00:20:04]
WE REALLY JUST INTEND TO MATCH THAT.I THINK WE REFLECTED THAT ON THE PLANS, ALTHOUGH WE DIDN'T CALL THAT OUT.
I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO LEAVE IT JUST TO TREATED LUMBER THAT WOULD WEATHER.
WE WOULD RATHER PAINT IT TO MATCH THE FIELD COLOR OF THE HOUSE, SO IT HELP IT DISAPPEAR A LITTLE BIT.
>> I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
>> I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO ALTER THE DESIGN CONCEPTUALLY, BUT I THINK THAT YOU DO HAVE AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU'RE LEAVING THE STAIR IN PLACE.
I THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME ADA COMPLIANCE ISSUES WITH THAT RAMP.
THE SURVEY DOESN'T SHOW THE SIZE OF THOSE PIERS SUPPORTING THE CARPORT THAT ARE 16 BY 16 WITH THE TRIM AND WHAT YOU NEED AT THE TOP, AND THIS IS NOT PROBABLY THE HDC, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO COME ACROSS THIS.
WHAT YOU NEED AT THE TOP IS A 5 BY 5 LANDING FOR THAT RAMP.
YOU'VE GOT THAT FIVE FEET AND THEN ANOTHER 3 FEET FOR THE RAMP GETS YOU TO 8 FEET WIDE, AND I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S TOTALLY GO TO FIT IN THERE. IT MAY OR MAY NOT.
BUT BECAUSE THE PIERS ARE NOT SHOWN ON THE CARPORT, I THINK THERE MAY BE A DIMENSION OFF.
THEN WILL YOU HAVE EGRESS OUT OF THAT BACK PATIO? I DON'T KNOW THE OCCUPANCY BACK THERE.
THIS IS NOT THE HDC, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF IT IN TERMS OF THAT EGRESS OUT [OVERLAPPING].
>> THAT DOOR WOULD ACTUALLY SWING THE OTHER WAY, PERHAPS.
AGAIN, SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE WORKED OUT IN THE PLANNING PHASES OF THE BUILDING. DULY NOTED, THOUGH.
>> I THINK THE DOOR IS NOT WIDE ENOUGH.
I THINK THAT EXISTING DOOR IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THERE THAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT.
>> I AGREE. AGAIN, VISUALLY SPEAKING NO MATTER WHICH DIRECTION WE TAKE, YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE LANDING THERE.
VISUALLY SPEAKING, I DON'T THINK IT'S MUCH OF AN IMPACT OVER WHAT WE SEE NOW.
WE HAVE CONSIDERED ONE OPTION HERE THAT WOULD MINIMIZE THE IMPACT OF THAT RAMP WHICH IS TO ESSENTIALLY JUST RUN THAT RAMP THE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING, AND THAT WOULD MINIMIZE A STREET FACADE IMPACT OF THE RAMP.
I'VE DISCUSSED THAT WITH THE OWNER AND SHE'S KEEN ON THAT AS WELL.
IF WE JUST KEPT THAT AS A BACKUP PLAN, BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO GO WITH IT THIS WAY OR WITH A CONTINGENCY TO RUN IT DOWN STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDE.
>> I THINK YOU JUST NEED TO LOOK AT THE PLACEMENT OF THOSE TWO EXISTING PIERS TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
>> ONE THING I NOTED, MARK IS I DIDN'T SEE ANY MECHANICALS ANYWHERE ON THIS DRAWING. IS THERE?
>> WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR IN TERMS OF LAYOUT FOR THE BUILDING.
THEY WOULD NEED A UTILITY COURT OF SOME SORT.
WE WILL BE TAKING THAT SHED OUT AND THEN OF COURSE, WE DO HAVE ROOM BETWEEN THE EDGE OF THE PLANNED NORTHWEST SIDE THERE IN THE PROPERTY LINE.
>> THE ONLY REASON I BRING IT UP IS DEPENDING ON WHAT FOOD SERVICE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IN THERE, THOSE CAN BECOME QUITE BIG AND FINDING A PLACE FOR THEM TO BE, SCREENING THEM, AND MAKING THEM DISAPPEAR MIGHT START TO AFFECT QUITE A FEW OF YOUR SEATING IDEAS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
>> WELL HELP ME ON PROCEEDING WITH THAT, BECAUSE I THINK THEY WOULD WANT SOME AT LEAST FENCING AT THAT TIME.
>> I AGREED. WE'D WANT TO SEE IT, I THINK.
>> CONCEPTUAL OR CONTINUE AND WE GET THE FINAL. [OVERLAPPING]
>> IF WE CAN GIVE YOU A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH SOME CONTINGENCIES BASED ON WHAT YOU FIND AND THAT WAY MAYBE YOU GUYS CAN HAMMER OUT IF YOU'RE JUST DOING A SINGLE ONE OR AS A TURN BACK [OVERLAPPING].
>> FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW, WE DON'T EVER WANT TO GET TOO FAR OVER OUR SKIS FOR OUR CLIENTS.
THIS WILL GIVE OUR CLIENTS TIME TO ASSESS THOSE SYSTEMS, DETERMINE WHAT THEY NEED TO BE IF THEY NEED TO BE INCREASED.
I KNOW THAT THE OWNER HAD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASED THE MECHANICAL SYSTEMS BEFORE HE SOLD THE BUILDING OR DECIDED TO LEASE THE BUILDING.
I THINK IT ALREADY MEETS SOME SUBSTANTIAL COMMERCIAL IMPACT.
[OVERLAPPING] I THINK HE HAD COMMERCIAL UNITS PUT IN THERE.
[00:25:01]
BUT IN ANY CASE FOR NEXT STEPS, IT'LL ALLOW OUR CLIENT TO GO AHEAD AND GET THOSE DRAWINGS DONE SO THAT WE CAN DETERMINE THOSE SIZES BECAUSE MEPS HAVE TO BE DONE FOR THE CITY.IT'S PREMATURE FOR ME TO EVEN KNOW WHAT THOSE SIZES ARE AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN ASSESSED THE CAPACITY OF THOSE UNITS YET.
>> REALLY, THE REASON I WAS BRINGING IT UP IS BECAUSE IT MAY IMPACT YOUR ABILITY TO RUN THAT RAMP ALL THE WAY DOWN THE SIDE IF YOU GOT A BUNCH OF AC AND STUFF HAVING TO GO THERE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE WOULD TAKE A DIFFERENT PATH THERE, I THINK.
I THINK WE WOULD OPT FOR LIKELY, ON THAT NORTHWEST CORNER, AN OPPORTUNITY THERE TO PUT A UTILITY CORP OF SOME SORT THERE, JUST A LITTLE MORE OUT OF THE WAY.
>> I THINK AT LEAST ON THE EXTERIOR THE ONLY OTHER THING WE'D WANT TO KNOW IS IF FOR ADA, SUDDENLY YOU'RE HAVING TO CHANGE SOME HISTORIC DOORS OR SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO GET IN AND OUT PROPERLY.
THAT'D PROBABLY BE SOMETHING WE'D WANT TO AT LEAST SEE.
>> WE CAN PROVIDE A SOLUTION FOR THAT, FOR SURE.
>> [LAUGHTER] I KNOW YOU'LL FIGURE IT OUT, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S AT LEAST ON MY RADAR ANYWAY.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
>> I LIKE THAT THE TRIM COLOR IS A NOD TO DOROTHEA'S COLOR.
>> IF YOU THROW SOME ORANGE IN THERE [LAUGHTER] WE'D BE A LITTLE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> [INAUDIBLE] HOW IS THIS ART BUILDING? MARK, DO YOU KNOW?
>> I DIDN'T SEE AND I WORKED FOR IT. IS IT 1924?
>> I WOULD ASK EVEN IF YOU WERE GOING TO GIVE US CONCEPTUAL, THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER APPROVING THE DEMO OF THAT SHED DURING THIS HEARING SO THAT THEY COULD GET SOME THINGS MOVE IN THERE AND PROCEED AS THEY LOOK TO NEXT STEPS.
>> I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS FOR YOU ON THE SHED.
I'VE NOT SEEN THAT SHED UP CLOSE AND I SEE THE PICTURE.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST CORRUGATED THAT THEY HAVE GOT ON IT.
>> ARE THOSE DOORS ANY THING OF IMPORT? ARE THEY LIKE BARN DOORS? [OVERLAPPING]
THERE WOULD, BUT [OVERLAPPING] THE SHED WAS GOT IN THE MID-60S.
I THINK THOSE DOORS WERE PROBABLY, I DON'T KNOW THE TIME [INAUDIBLE] THEM.
BUT MY GUESS IS THEY WERE PROBABLY ADDED MUCH LATER.
THEY LOOK MORE CONTEMPORARY TO ME, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY NOTE THAT AND TAKE THEM TO REUSE THEM SOMEHOW. THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY.
>> THEY'RE IN GOOD SHAPE AND THEY'RE SUBSTANTIAL, I THINK THAT'D BE COOL.
THE SAME FOR, I CAN'T TELL IF IT'S 60S.
DIMENSIONAL LUMBER UP THERE, BUT THAT MIGHT JUST BE SOME OXIDATION ON IT, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE SOME PRETTY DECENT FRAMING AND TIMBERS IN THERE.
ANY OF THAT THAT CAN BE SALVAGED.
WE'VE BEEN SWAPPING WOOD IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
>> IT'LL BE PULLED APART WITH CARE AND THAT WOOD YOU'D SAVE ANYWAY.
>> THE SHED DOORS IF THEY ARE FROM THE 60S, THEY'RE ACTUALLY ANTIQUE AT THIS POINT.
YOU MAYBE COULD BRING THEM IN IF YOU HAVE TO BUILD A PRIVACY SCREEN AROUND [OVERLAPPING].
>> THAT WAS EXACTLY WHERE I WENT.
IT COULD PART OF THE COURTYARD SCREEN.
>> IT COULD BE A NICE THING DIFFERENCE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THE OTHER THING THAT I NOTICE, SO GOING BACK DOWN THE DRIVEWAY ON THE RIGHT, THERE LOOKS LIKE THERE WAS A LITTLE LEAN TO SOMETHING OR OTHER STUCK IN THERE.
>> THAT'S A SHOWER. DOES THAT HAVE A WOOD DOOR ON IT?
>> NO, IT'S NOT AN AMAZON [LAUGHTER] OUTDOOR SHOWER THAT HE HAS ALREADY TAKEN AS [INAUDIBLE].
>> I STILL HAVE, BECAUSE I HAVE THE THREE PANTRY DOORS FROM THE BUILDING NEXT DOOR WHEN THEY RE-DID THEM IN MY HOUSE.
I WAS, WAIT THERE IS THE FOURTH DOOR.
>> WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE AN ARRANGEMENT FOR THOSE [INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER].
>> JUST ONE OTHER COMMENT. WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT PERHAPS LOOK AT WITH THIS HANDICAP RAMP, IF THAT EXISTING DOOR INTO THAT PORCH IS NOT WIDE ENOUGH INSTEAD OF MODIFYING THAT WHICH IS GOING TO INVOLVE MODIFYING THOSE WINDOWS AND REALLY CHANGING THAT SOUTH ELEVATION, PERHAPS THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO PULL THE WHOLE GRAM BACK A LITTLE BIT WHERE YOU ACTUALLY GO INTO THAT MAIN SEATING AREA, PERHAPS WHERE THAT WINDOW OPENING IS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO YOU DON'T REALLY CHANGE THE CONFIGURATION OF THE PORCH.
>> THAT'S NOT A BAD OPTION, ACTUALLY.
WE'LL LOOK AT ALL OF THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT WE GET YOU A SOLUTION THAT WORKS.
THOSE ARE GREAT COMMENTS. THANK YOU.
[00:30:01]
DO WE WANT A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH CONTINGENCIES OR HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE DESIRE TO GO AHEAD AND START THE DISMANTLING OF THE SHED?>> WE WANT TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE WE'RE NOT GOING, MAN.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER MONTH BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN START.
I KNOW THIS IS NOT YOUR ALL PRIMARY CONCERN, BUT IT IS A CONCERN FOR OUR CLIENT.
>> THEY'RE TRYING TO OPEN A BUSINESS AND THEY'RE TAKING GREAT CARE.
>> ABSOLUTELY. IS IT BEST FOR US TO DO TWO MOTIONS, ONE ON THE SHED AND ANOTHER CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FOR THE REST OF THE PROJECT? IS THAT THE BEST?
>> MAYBE HIGHLIGHTING THE FINAL LAYOUT FOR THE RAMP AND A SOLUTION FOR THE SCREENING. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THE CONCEPTUAL WILL HAVE SOME CONTINGENCIES THAT WE'VE POINT OUT.
>> BUT REALLY, THE CONCEPTUAL.
IF WE'RE JUST GIVING HIM A CONCEPTUAL, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO HAVE A CONTINGENCY BECAUSE HE'S BRINGING BACK A NEW FULL FINAL.
HE CAN BRING BACK THE FINAL AFTER YOU DO YOUR MEPS [OVERLAPPING].
>> THAT'S GOING TO BE LONG DOWN THE ROAD.
>> CONCEPTUAL FOR EVERYTHING OTHER THAN THE SHED.
>> BUT WE CAN GIVE YOU THE DEMO APPROVAL.
>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THIS PROJECT? DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE DEMOLITION OF THE SHED? I CAN'T MAKE A MOTION.
>> I'M TRYING TO THINK HOW TO WORD IT.
>> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY THE D WORD.
>> I'LL TAKE A SHOT AT IT. [LAUGHTER]
>> THIS IS NOT A WORD WE'D LIKE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
DEMOLITION IS NOT A GOOD WORD.
>> HOW ABOUT I ADD A CONDITION TO SALVAGE WORD?
>> YOU'RE NOT PARTIAL TO THE METAL, I HOPE.
>> I'LL TAKE A STAB AT IT. YOU GUYS CAN CORRECT IF I GET SOMETHING WRONG.
I MOVE TO APPROVE THE DEMOLITION OF THE SHED ON CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-0006 WITH THE CONDITION THAT MATERIALS THAT ARE SALVAGEABLE ARE SALVAGED AND RETAINED FOR USE ELSEWHERE.
>> I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT THE SHED REMOVAL PART OF HDC CASE HDC 2025-0006 AS PRESENTED.
PLEASE AMEND THE CASE NUMBER TO 0009.
>> AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
NO, IT'S NOT THE OLD TOWN EITHER.
>> I'M TRYING TO FIND ONE THAT'S IN THE CITY.
JUST MAKE SURE I GET THE WORDING RIGHT.
>> THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT.
THIS IS SPECIFICALLY FOR THE SHED REMOVAL, FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? [LAUGHTER] GOOD JOB, JANICE.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
COULD YOU CALL THE ROLE, PLEASE?
>> YES. NOW WE NEED ANOTHER MOTION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ON THE REST OF THE PROJECT.
>> BUT ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO DO IT? [LAUGHTER]
>> WHAT? DO I DO A CONCEPTUAL APPROVE [OVERLAPPING] I MOVED TO CONCEPTUALLY APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-0009 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW.
PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE HDC 2025-0009, AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF DEANS INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
[00:35:05]
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
COULD YOU CALL THE ROLE PLEASE?
>> OUR SECOND BASE UNDER NEW BUSINESS IS HDC 2025-0008 112 SOUTH 10TH STREET.
[5.2 HDC2025-0008 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR DEAN PEARSON, 112 S. 10TH STREET FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to construct a 2-story accessory structure, add a rear porch, repaint the existing exterior siding of the principal residence, and to remove a portion of and repair the existing accessory structure. (Quasi-Judicial). ]
THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO-STORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, ADD A REAR PORCH, REPAINT THE EXISTING EXTERIOR SIDING OF THE PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE, REMOVE ORNAMENTAL SHUTTERS, AND REMOVE A PORTION OF, AND REPAIR AN EXISTING ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.ON THE SIDE I PLACE THE GREEN BOX AROUND THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
AND THE BOTTOM IS A CONTEXT DRAWING THAT DISPLAYS WHAT THE ADDITION WOULD LOOK LIKE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STREETS.
ON THIS SLIDE, I CALLED OUT SOME INFORMATION REGARDING THE DEMOLITION OF THE SHED IN THE BACK.
ACCORDING TO THE PROPERTY OF [INAUDIBLE] SITE, THIS WAS BUILT IN 1990.
THE SHUTTERS THAT ARE TO BE REMOVED ON THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE ARE NON-FUNCTIONAL, AND I COULDN'T FIND ANY HISTORICAL PHOTOS THAT SHOWED THEM.
IT IS OKAY TO REMOVE THEM, AND IT WOULD NOT DAMAGE THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE.
ON THIS LINE, I HAVE THE SOUTH ELEVATIONS BEFORE.
THE EXISTING IS ON TOP AND THE PROPOSED IS ON THE BOTTOM.
THEN ON THE RIGHT IS THE EXISTING WEST ELEVATIONS AND THE PROPOSED WEST ELEVATIONS ON THE BOTTOM THERE.
THEN THESE ARE THE OTHER ELEVATIONS.
THAT IS THE NORTH AND EAST ELEVATIONS. THAT'S NICE.
>> JOSE MIRANDA, MIRANDA ARCHITECTS, 300.5 CENTER STREET, SUITE 206.
I THINK YOU SAW THE PEARSON PROJECT EARLY LAST YEAR.
THIS HAS BEEN A TOTAL REDESIGN TO SIMPLIFY AND TRY TO MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE, BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS VERSION WAS CONSIDERABLY OVER BUDGET.
WE'RE HAVING TO PAIR THIS THING DOWN.
THE HOUSE EDITION, BASICALLY, WE'RE EXPANDING THE BACK KITCHEN AREA.
WE'RE KEEPING MR. POZZETTA'S FANCY WINDOW ON THE BACK, WHICH WAS IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE.
THAT'S GOING TO BE A HIGHLIGHT FEATURE ON THE LITTLE BANQUETTE IN THAT AREA.
THE TWO ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, OBVIOUSLY, THE EXISTING SHED, WHICH ACTUALLY VIOLATES THE PROPERTY LINE AND IS DILAPIDATED, AND BASICALLY THE STUDS ARE SITTING IN THE DIRT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT'S BUILD UP OVER TIME, ALL THAT'S BEING REMOVED, WE'RE BUILDING A NEW ACCESSORY SHED BUILDING, ONE STORY.
BECAUSE WE'RE SO CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE, WE HAVE TO MAKE A FIRE RATED CONSTRUCTION, SO THE EXTERIOR MATERIAL WILL BE CONCRETE BLOCKED THAT WE WILL PROVIDE STUCCO FINISH ON IT.
THE ACCESSORY BUILDING, WHICH IS TWO-STORY, IS A GARAGE WORKSHOP.
MR. PEARSON DOES SOME BLACKSMITHING, SO HE'S HOPING TO BE ABLE TO WORK THAT WITHIN THAT SINCE HE'S ZONED COMMERCIAL AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE THAT AS A LITTLE BIT OF A HOME BUSINESS.
THE SECOND FLOOR RIGHT NOW IS JUST A BONUS ROOM.
IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE AN EXERCISE ROOM, SO WE HAVE THE SECOND FLOOR ACCESSIBLE FROM INTERIOR OF THE GARAGE ITSELF.
ON THE ADDITIONS, WE CHOSE TO GO ON THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
WE WENT WITH BOARD AND BATTEN TO CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE OLD BUILDING.
THE OLD BUILDING HAS AS BEST SIDING.
AS WE KNOW WITH ASBESTOS SIDING, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S UNDERNEATH, NOR DO WE KNOW WHAT THE PRICE TAG IS TO RESTORE WHAT'S UNDERNEATH.
WE ARE KEEPING THE ASBESTOS SIDING WHERE WE NEED TO.
THE ONLY THING WE'RE DOING ON THE OUTSIDE IS REMOVING THOSE TACKED ON VINYL SHUTTERS THAT ARE ON THERE AND REPAINTING THE WALLS AND THE WINDOWS.
IT'S GOING TO BE A BLACK AND WHITE COLOR SCHEME, WHICH IS WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW, JUST FOR ALL THE BUILDINGS, SO IT ALL TIES TOGETHER.
WE'RE HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE AND GET THIS MOVING.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA? COMMENTS?
>> IS THERE A DOOR TO THE GARAGE ON THE SOUTH SIDE? I DON'T HAVE AN ELEVATION OF THIS.
>> YES. THERE IS, INCLUDING YOUR PACKAGE WHERE WE HAVE ALL FOUR ELEVATIONS OF THE ACCESSORY BUILDING.
BUT THERE IS A PERSON DOOR, SO TO SPEAK.
>> WHICH IS FOR THE SAFE ROOFERS.
>> YEAH. [OVERLAPPING] ROOF COVERS.
>> THAT LITTLE SHED IS FURTHER DOWN, BUT YES, THERE IS A PERSON DOOR RIGHT THERE.
>> I THINK THE DESIGN IS GOOD. IT'S THOUGHTFUL, AND IT MAKES SENSE.
[00:40:01]
I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CONTEXT DRAWING THAT YOU DID OF THE ENTIRE STREETSCAPE.THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND THE SCALE OF THAT.
>> BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT [OVERLAPPING] OH MY GOSH, YOU'RE MATCHING EXACTLY THE HOUSE.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT IN THE STREET SIDE, IT'S LIKE, EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE.
>> THAT 36-PANE WINDOW THAT WE WERE JUST [OVERLAPPING] HEARTBURN ABOUT IS THERE.
>> THERE. WE LOOKED AT IT, IT WAS IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE AND IT MADE SENSE FOR THIS ADDITION FOR THAT TO BE THE DINING BANQUETTE AREA. WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THAT.
>> JOSE, TELL US ABOUT THE DECISION TO CHANGE THE ORIGINAL SIX OVER SIXES IN THE BACK.
I KNOW ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN CHANGED OUT ALREADY, THAT CENTER.
>> THE REASON IS BECAUSE THE ROOF LINE IS INTERFERING.
RIGHT HERE, THIS IS A BATHROOM UPSTAIRS.
THIS IS AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN BLANKED OUT.
WE JUST MADE ALL THREE OF THOSE THE SAME.
THEY'RE BASICALLY PROPORTIONALLY AS IF IT'S JUST THE UPPER SASH OF THE DOUBLE M. WE JUST MADE THEM FIXED, BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED TO BE OPERABLE.
ONE'S IN THE BATHROOM, ONES AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, THE OTHER ONES IN WHAT'S GOING TO BE A CLOSET IN ONE OF THE OTHER BEDROOMS. THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THEM TO GO BACK TO DOUBLE HOME.
PLUS IT'S ON THE BACK SIDE, SO WE FELT THAT THAT MINOR CHANGE WAS INSIGNIFICANT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORIC CONTEXT OF THAT BUILDING.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
>> WE'LL PUT YOUR NAME ON IT. [LAUGHTER]
>> SLIGHTLY LESS CONTENTIOUS THAN IT WAS FIRST TIME.
ANY MORE DISCUSSION? ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC WISH TO SPEAK ON THIS PROJECT? WE HAVE A MOTION.
>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION. I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-0008 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE HDC 20205-0008 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
>> YES. THIS BRINGS US TO HDC 2025-007,
[5.3 HDC2025-0007 - FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET, VARIOUS ROW LOCATIONS FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to wrap utility boxes in the Downtown District with historic photos and maps. (Quasi-Judicial).]
WHICH IS FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET.>> THIS IS OUR LAST PIECE UNDER NEW BUSINESS.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BY FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET AND THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.
I HAVE INCLUDED THEIR PRESENTATION TONIGHT, AND WE'LL HEAR A SUMMARY AND DETAILS FROM THE APPLICANT.
I'LL JUST CLICK THROUGH FOR THEM, BUT THIS IS THE MATERIAL THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE REVIEW IN TODAY.
I AM ON THE FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET.
I AM A BOARD MEMBER, ALSO WORK ON THE DESIGN COUNCIL, AND WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO BEAUTIFY OUR WONDERFUL DOWNTOWN AREA.
I KNOW YOU SOMETIMES DON'T NOTICE THEM, BUT WE DO, THE UTILITY BOXES.
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE NASTY GREEN ONES THAT ARE IN MULTIPLE LOCATIONS.
WE'VE GOT A COMBINATION OF DOWNTOWN UTILITY BOXES.
YOU'LL SEE THAT THIS COLOR CODED, SOME OF THEM ARE FDOT, SOME ARE FPU, SOME ARE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET CONCESSIONAL APPROVAL FOR THE CONCEPT OF BEING ABLE TO DO A WRAP AROUND THESE.
A LOT OF OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS DO THEM TO TRY TO HELP THEM BLEND INTO THE CONTEXT.
WE'VE GOT DESIGN AT WRAPS, IS GOING TO DO GRAB AN IMAGE AND WRAP THE ACTUAL BOX TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT MUCH MORE APPEALING.
THE FIRST TWO TEST AREAS ARE THE DOT BOX.
>> IF YOU WANT ME TO CHANGE SLIDES, LET ME KNOW.
>> TO THE ONE IN FRONT OF KEYSTONE THERE.
OKAY. THIS UTILITY BOX, WHICH IS AT THE CENTER STREET LOCATION BEHIND THE ENTRY SIGN, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS USE HISTORIC PHOTOGRAPHS TO DO THESE WRAPS ON.
WHERE IT MAKES SENSE AND THERE'S A HISTORIC BUILDING THAT USED TO BE THERE, WE WOULD LIKE TO USE A HISTORIC BUILDING IMAGE ON THAT BOX.
IN THIS CASE, THE IMAGE WOULD BE THE KEYSTONE HOTEL THAT WAS DEMOLISHED IN '72.
[00:45:01]
WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ALL OF IT IN A CPA TONE.IT'S CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE DISTRICT, WHETHER THE BOX IS SILVER, GREEN, OR WHATEVER COLOR IT IS NOW, IT'LL BE WRAPPED WITH A CPA TONE IMAGE.
THAT'S OUR FIRST TEST CASE, WHICH WILL BE RIGHT THERE AT THE CENTER STREET LOCATION.
THE OTHER LOCATION IS NORTH THIRD STREET, WHICH ARE THE GREEN.
YOU'LL SEE THESE ARE JUST CONCEPT IMAGES OF THE SIDES AND HOW THE IMAGE CAN WRAP AROUND IT.
THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME LIMITATIONS ON WHAT WERE CUTOUTS WE HAVE TO MAKE BECAUSE THERE ARE ACCESS DOORS AND OTHER FEATURES, SAFETY LABELS AND ALL THAT THAT WE HAD TO CUT OUT AROUND THAT.
WE'RE WORKING WITH DESIGN WRAPS TO SEE WHERE THE CUTOUTS ARE GOING TO BE.
THEY'RE DOING THE MOCK UP CORES.
THE OTHER ONES THAT WE'RE GOING TO USE ARE SANBORN MAPS.
IF YOU KNOW THIS, WE'VE GOT PROBABLY SIX VERSIONS OF SANBORN MAPS GOING BACK TO THE LATE 1800S UP TO 1926.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS PARTICULARLY IN NORTH THIRD STREET WHERE WE'VE GOT SEVERAL LOW LYING ONES, WE'RE GOING TO TREAT IT ALMOST LIKE A TABLETOP.
I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT A DINING ROOM TABLE COVER.
ESSENTIALLY, THE IMAGE WOULD BE VIEWED FROM THE TOP.
WE WOULD TAKE THE SANBORN MAP IMAGE, MAKE IT A SEPIA TONE IMAGE.
THOSE IMAGES WOULD BE OF WHAT THIRD STREET LOOKED LIKE FROM ESSENTIALLY AERIAL VIEW, SIMILAR TO THE SANBORN MAPS, THE SAME.
>> ORIENTED THE SAME WAY SO WE CAN SEE.
WE'RE ALSO STUDYING WHETHER WE DO VARIOUS YEARS.
YOU CAN TELL, THIS IS WHAT IT WAS IN 1898, THIS IS WHAT IT WAS IN 1903.
WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT THOSE SANBORN MAPS IS, YOU SEE A LOT OF HISTORY ON HOW THE BILLINGS CHANGE SHAPE, WHAT USES FOR EACH ONE OF THE STRUCTURES, AND IT'S MUCH MORE DYNAMIC TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT USED TO BE IN THAT LOCATION.
WHAT WE'RE SEEKING IS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL SO THAT WE CAN START DOING THIS THROUGHOUT THE DISTRICT.
THE TWO TEST CASES, LIKE I SAID, ARE THE ONE AT EIGHTH STREET AND ATLANTIC AND THE NORTH THIRD STREET.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET THOSE OUT OF THE GROUND.
WE'RE NOW WORKING UP AGREEMENTS WITH FPU AND FDOT FOR THOSE WRAPS.
WE'RE WORKING WITH THE DESIGN AT WRAPS TO ACTUALLY DO A MOCK UP FOR US.
THIS IS ALL BEING FUNDED BY MAIN STREET, SO ANYBODY CAN HELP US WITH THAT IF YOU'D LIKE TO DONATE.
NO PUBLIC MONEY IS BEING USED FOR THIS FUNCTION.
THIS IS AS A RESULT OF OUR OWN FUND RAISING EFFORTS AND AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO IMPROVE THINGS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FOR THE WHOLE PROCESS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE BOXES THAT WE START TO WRAP ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
WE FEEL STRONGLY THAT IF YOU LET US RUN WITH THIS, WHETHER WE NEED TO COME BACK TO YOU FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE, WHICH WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID, THIS IS BASICALLY ALMOST LIKE A PUBLIC ART PROJECT, AND WHETHER YOU GUYS REVIEW THE ACTUAL CONTENT OR NOT, WE'RE TRYING TO SIMPLIFY THAT SO WE GET THIS PROCESS ROLLING AND I HAD TO COME BACK TO YOU GUYS EVERY TIME WE'RE DOING ONE MORE BOX.
>> ANY OF COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS.
>> I THINK THIS IS AWESOME, IT'S SO COOL. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
YOU ANSWERED ONE, THE FIRST I HAD, YOU HAVE TO GET APPROVAL THROUGH WHOEVER BOX, IT IS.
DO WE HAVE A SENSE FROM DESIGN THAT WRAPS ON LONGEVITY OR THE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE THEY USE THEM AS CAR WRAPS.
THEY USE THE SAME CONCEPT FOR THAT.
>> THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO OUT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, SUN IS A BIG ISSUE PARTICULARLY FOR THE TABLETOP ONES THAT ARE EXPOSED THE MOST.
WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S THE LONGEVITY, WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REPLACE REGULARLY? SOME OF THE AGREEMENTS ALSO PUT THE BURDEN ON MAIN STREET TO CLEAN GRAFFITI OFF AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
WE HAVE TO DO AN ASSESSMENT OF THE BOX CONDITION BEFORE WE PUT THEM ON, SO WE'RE NOT ACCUSED OF, WE HURT THE BOX AFTER WE PUT THE WRAP ON.
THOSE ISSUES WE STILL ARE TRYING TO IRON OUT AS PART OF THE AGREEMENTS.
>> I THOUGHT I SAW SOME PLACE THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE QR CODES ON THEM, WHERE YOU COULD.
>> YES. WHAT WE'RE STUDYING IS DOING QR CODE SO THAT IT TAKES YOU TO EITHER OUR WEBSITE OR THE MUSEUM TO KNOW WHAT THAT IMAGE IS, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN LEARN AND SAY, WHAT IS THAT? OH, HERE'S THE KEYSTONE. AD YOU GET THAT HISTORY.
WE WANT IT TO BE A LITTLE MORE INTERACTIVE, NOT JUST A PICTURE THAT NOBODY HAS ANY CONTEXT ABOUT.
NOW, WE ARE LIMITED ON THAT TO PUT TEXT ON THERE BECAUSE OF THE AGREEMENT LANGUAGE FOR SOME OF THESE THINGS.
WE'RE TRYING TO SEE WHAT'S THE EASIEST WAY TO DO IT.
WHETHER THIS SPECIFICALLY A QR CODE, OR, FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE SANDBORN MAPS,
[00:50:02]
EACH SANDBORN MAP HAS A LITTLE ON IT THAT SHOWS THE YEAR, BUT IT'S PART OF THE IMAGE.IF WE CAN CREATE THAT AS PART OF THE IMAGE, IT'S NOT CONSIDERED TEXT BECAUSE IT'S NOT ADVERTISING ANYTHING.
>> BUT THERE'S A LOT OF TEXT IN THE STATE FOR MATH, THOUGH.
>> WELL, THAT'S CORRECT. ALL THOSE THINGS, BUT THAT'S ALL PART OF THE ARTWORK.
WE'RE NOT ADVERTISING, IT'S JUST THE BACKGROUND.
WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO GET THOSE IMAGES APPROVED, OBVIOUSLY, AS PART OF OUR AGREEMENTS WITH PUN AND FDOT.
MY CONCERN IS, IF YOU EVER GONE IN A RESTAURANT AND YOU GO IN AND THE AMBIENCE IS SO NICE AND IT'S SO HISTORICAL AND SO MUCH, AND YOU SIT DOWN AND YOU LOOK AROUND AND YOU REALIZE THAT EVERY SINGLE CORNER AND NOOK AND CRANNY OF THE PLACE IS FULL OF STUFF AND IT'S JUST OVERWHELMING TO THE POINT OF TACKY.
I DON'T WANT DOWNTOWN TO BE SO FULL OF HISTORY AND STUFF THAT IT GETS THAT WAY.
THAT'S HOW I FEEL WHEN I GO TO ST. AUGUSTINE.
THAT IS JUST OVERRUN WITH STUFF THAT YOU CAN'T ENJOY THE BUILDINGS AND NATURE AND THE PEOPLE AND THE SURROUNDINGS BECAUSE IT'S JUST SO FULL.
I DON'T WANT EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY TO BE FULL.
I'D LIKE US TO BE VERY AWARE OF THAT AND BE CAREFUL THAT WE DON'T FILL IT ALL UP.
>> WELL, TO YOUR ANSWER, MIA, CAN YOU PULL UP THE IMAGE OF THE NORTH THIRD STREET BOXES? YOU'LL NOTICE HOW MANY BOXES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SOME OF THEM ARE GROUPED TOGETHER.
HERE'S A GROUP OF FOUR OF THEM.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WHEN I'M WALKING DOWNTOWN, THAT'S AN EYESORE.
BECAUSE EACH ONE OF THEM HAS GOT MULTIPLE, SOME OF THEM GET GRAFFITI ON THEM, SOME OF JUST BEAT ALL THE HECK.
WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT AT LEAST SO THAT THEY DISAPPEAR AND THEY TEACH VISITORS AND LOCALS ABOUT THE ISLAND'S HISTORY.
[OVERLAPPING] WELL, THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO DO CPO BECAUSE EVEN IF FOR EXAMPLE, THE SANDBORN IMAGES ON THE TOP, THE REST OF THE SIDES WILL ALSO BE A CPO KIND OF A CLOUD BACKGROUND, SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST CPO ON THE TOP AND WE KEEP THE GREEN SIDES.
THE WHOLE THING WILL GET WRAPPED SO THAT IT STARTS TO BLEND IN AND YOU LEARN SOMETHING.
YOU'RE NOT LEARNING ANYTHING FROM THIS OTHER THAN OH, MY GOSH, HOW MANY BOXES DO WE REALLY NEED?
>> I DON'T KNOW IF WE KNOW THE QUANTITY, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S NO NOT EVERY STREET EVERY CORNER, SO THERE'S NOT THAT MANY OF [INAUDIBLE] YOU CAN SEE WHICH ONES WE HAVE TARGETED IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, AND WHICH ONES ARE FPU FDOT? WELL, IF YOU GO FORWARD, WE'RE ALSO EXTENDING THIS PROJECT TO 8TH STREET.
OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS THE SEA HOUSE.
THE NEXT ONE OVER HERE IS CAMA.
THERE'S A BIG UTILITY, WE HAVE DOT BOX THERE, AND THE OTHER ONE IS AT THE ENTRANCE.
THE IMAGES WE'RE LOOKING AT FOR THOSE, AND WE'RE STUDYING IF YOU GET TO THE NEXT, I THINK THE NEXT ONE SHOWS KEEP GOING, MORE, THERE WE GO.
THESE ARE THE IMAGES WE'RE STUDYING FOR THOSE LOCATIONS.
THIS IS A VIEW FROM THE EGMONT HOTEL, TURN OF THE CENTURY LOOKING TO THE SEA HOUSE.
YOU SEE IT RIGHT THERE IN THE MIDDLE.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE'VE GOT A STARK IMAGE THAT GIVES US CONTEXT.
WE'RE HOPING TO DO THE FDOT WRAP IN THAT.
THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE THIS LOW BUILDING IN THE FRONT WAS THE BOWLING ALLEY FOR THE EGMONT HOTEL.
THIS IS ALL STORIES THAT ARE JUST LOST BECAUSE THOSE PICTURES ARE AT THE MUSEUM, BUT THEY'RE NOT LIVING ON THEIR STRENGTHS.
THEN OBVIOUSLY, WE'VE GOT THIS HISTORIC ENTRY SIGN FROM THE 50S WHERE WE WERE THE BUCCANEER CITY.
WE'RE THINKING OF THAT ONE FOR THE LIME STREET UTILITY ROUTE.
THIS ONE WAS IMAGE, AND WE'VE GOT OTHER OPTIONS THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH VERONICA ON ABOUT THE TROLLEY THAT WOULD TAKE VISITORS TO THE BEACH.
WE HAVE OTHER ONES THAT REALLY SHOW A LOT OF DETAIL.
WE'RE HOPING THAT IF WE CAN'T FIND A HISTORIC IMAGE OF THE BUILDING THAT WAS THERE OR SOMETHING THAT'S CONTEXTUAL,
[00:55:01]
THAT WE USE A HISTORIC PHOTOGRAPH LIKE THAT TO GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT OUR PAST.>> IT LOOK NICE. I JUST CAUTION US. I CAN GO.
>> WELL, MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS HOW LONG WILL THEY LAST TO.
HOW WILL THEY FADE? I THINK THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO DO THIS TEST CASE TO MAKE SURE THIS IS VIABLE GOING FORWARD.
>> IF THEY NEED ACCESS TO THEM, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CUT AROUND THE [OVERLAPPING]
>> THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO REVIEW WHAT NEEDS TO BE ACCESSIBLE AND HOW THE WRAP BECAUSE THE WRAPS, WHEN THEY DO IT ON A CAR, THEY DO CUT AROUND THE OPENINGS, THE GAS TANK, THE DOORS, LIKE YOU'RE HERMETICALLY SEALED, SO WE'RE GOING TO DO THE SAME CONCEPT ON THOSE WRAPS.
>> I HAD ONE THOUGHT FOR EVERYBODY REALLY TO PONDER.
THE SANDBORN MAPS, WE ALL LOVE THEM. YOU LOVE THEM.
YOU'RE A HISTORIAN, AND ARCHITECT, YOU'RE DETAIL ORIENTED.
I WONDER IF THE AVERAGE PERSON, IF THAT JUST LOOKS LIKE AN ELECTRICAL PLAN, A GRID.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO REALLY AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY'S REALLY GOING TO FOLLOW ANY CHANGES OF THOSE BUILDINGS OVER TIME.
I DO LOVE THE IMAGES BECAUSE PEOPLE, THAT'S SO EASY TO GLEAN.
OH, WOW, LOOK AT THE HORSE AND BUGGY THAT CAME DOWN THE STREET OR SOMETHING.
I JUST WONDER IF THE SANDBORN MAPS ARE.
>> THAT'S A SACRILEGIOUS STATEMENT. I MEAN REALLY.
>> I THINK YOU HAVE A VALID POINT.
IF YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THE BOOTS OF SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T HAVE ANY CLUE.
>> THE FIRST TIME YOU LOOKED AT THE SANDBORN.
>> OH, MY GOD, I FELL IN LOVE.
>> YOU MAY JUST HAVE TO HIGHLIGHT THE CHRONOLOGY OF IT, DATES SOMETHING OBVIOUS.
>> YOU MEAN WE CAN'T DO SANDBORN MATS, WHERE IT SAYS FEMALE BOARDING HOUSE, WHICH WAS THE NOMENCLATURE FOR.
WELL, WE'LL TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.
I THINK THE REASON WE CHOSE SANDBORN AS OUR FALLBACK WAS BECAUSE, ESPECIALLY IN NORTH THIRD, WHERE WE HAVE SIX OR EIGHT BOXES THERE.
IT WAS HARD FOR US TO SEARCH FOR IMAGES OF OTHER BUILDINGS THAT WERE THERE THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
WE THOUGHT, WELL, BECAUSE IT'S A TABLETOP, WE THOUGHT, OH, IT COULD BE A MAP SANDBORN OF WHAT USED TO BE ON THAT STREET.
IT JUST BECAME OUR BACKGROUND DEFAULT.
>> WHEN YOU SAID THE SIDES WOULD BE THE CPO, ARE YOU THINKING IMAGES ON THE SIDE OR JUST PUTTING A.
>> WHAT WE'RE DOING IS A CLOUD [INAUDIBLE] JUST TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT GOES WITH THE TOP.
>> YOU COULD TAKE A TOTAL PANORAMIC IMAGE AND DO LIKE A BURMA SHAVE.
>> I THINK YOU HAVE FOUND A DESIGN CONSULTANT.
>> TAMMY, OUR DESIGN COUNCIL MEETS MONTHLY.
WE WILL SEND YOU AN INVITE IF YOU LOVE TO PARTICIPATE.
I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS.
THE QUESTION IS FOR CITY STAFF.
DOES THIS, AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS NO, BUT DOES THIS IN ANY WAY CONFLICT WITH THE ORDINANCE STATING MURALS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE.
>> THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THANK YOU.
>> I WOULD SAY NO, BECAUSE THESE ARE MURALS.
>> [OVERLAPPING] YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WILL SAY THAT THEY'RE MURALS, WE NEED TO BE PREPARED, I THINK TO DISTINGUISH IN SOME WAY.
BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA, AND YET IT'S NOT THE SAME THING THAT I THINK OF WHEN I HEAR ABOUT A MURAL ON THE SIDE OF A BUILDING, WHICH IS [OVERLAPPING].
>> EXCUSE ME, BUT HERE'S A QUESTION.
HOW WAS ART WORK DEFINED EVEN IF IT'S TEMPORARY, WHAT DEFINES TEMPORARY?
>> IT WAS DEFINED AS ONE YEAR OR LESS.
>> GOT YOU. WHEN YOU GUYS DO THE DECORATED SHRIMP, WHICH WAS A THING OR THE PUBLIC ART THAT'S SPRINKLED THROUGHOUT THERE OVER A YEAR, IT WAS THERE FOR A YEAR OR LESS.
>> THEN IT DIDN'T NEED APPROVAL, DIDN'T YOU NEED YEAH.
>> I JUST FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO FEEL RIGHT ABOUT THAT AND NOT BLUR THE LINES, JUST MAKE THEM SHARP LINES BETWEEN THE TWO, BETWEEN THIS AND WHAT A MURAL IS DEFINED AS.
>> I'M NOT SURE. KELLY, DO YOU KNOW? OKAY, THANK YOU.
>> YEAH BECAUSE WE WON'T TALK ABOUT OUR MURAL PROJECT BECAUSE IT'S [INAUDIBLE]
>> THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE THAT I WANTED TO ASK.
[01:00:06]
THE CLARIFICATION FOR ME, YOU MENTIONED THAT MAINTENANCE OF THESE WRAPS WOULD FALL TO MAIN STREET?>> THAT'S PART OF THE AGREEMENT THAT'S BEING REQUIRED OF US FOR BOTH FDOT AND FPU.
THAT ANYTHING RELATED TO THE WRAP THAT WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO FIND OUT, WELL, OKAY, HOW LONG DO THEY HOLD UP? DO THEY FADE? ARE WE JUST GOING TO PEEL THEM OFF, OR WILL THEY BE REPLACED?
>> BUT I GUESS THAT'S THE OTHER THING.
ONCE WE SAY, WE DON'T LIKE THIS, OR WE'RE DONE WITH THIS, HOW DO YOU GET THEM OFF AND THEN IT HAPPENS.
>> CORRECT. WE DO HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR DESIGNING WRAPS TO SEE HOW IT'S GOING TO PLAY OUT.
BUT SEEING THAT THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN A VERY SIMILAR FASHION, IT'S LIKE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING ALONG THE WAY.
>> THE CITY IS NOT AN AGREEMENT PARTICIPANT IN THIS IN ANY WAY, OR ARE THEY?
>> ONLY FOR ANY CITY BOXES WE'D HAVE THE ENTER INTO THE CITY WITH, BUT NOT FOR FPU, NOT FOR FDOT, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PART OF THOSE AREAS ANYWAY.
>> I'VE PREACHED ABOUT THIS QUITE FREQUENTLY, SO I'M GOING TO DO IT AGAIN.
WE'VE HAD A HISTORY OVER THE YEARS WHERE ORGANIZATIONS, VOLUNTEERS, ETC, HAVE DONATED TO THE CITY, THINGS LIKE DAVID ULE.
THEN WHEN IT COMES TIME TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, THE CITY GOES, HEY, WE DON'T OWN IT.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL PROTECT YOURSELVES IN THAT EVENT, IN THAT A AGREEMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CITY IF THEY NEED TO PLAY A ROLE, THAT THAT'S IDENTIFIED.
BECAUSE IT WASN'T IN THESE OTHER THINGS.
>> WELL, WE'LL CERTAINLY TALK TO THE CITY AS TO WHETHER THEY NEED TO BE A PARTNER IN THAT AGREEMENT OR NOT.
BUT THE WAY THE LANGUAGE IS RIGHT NOW, THE BURDEN IS ON US AS MAIN STREET TO TAKE CARE OF THESE THROUGH A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF TIME.
THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO PUT A COUPLE OF THESE UP TO TEST THE CONCEPT.
SEE WHILE THEY HOLD UP, ESPECIALLY DURING THE SUMMER ON THOSE TABLETOPS.
ARE THEY GOING TO FADE OUT WITHIN THREE MONTHS OR.
DO WE GET A YEAR OUT OF THEM? WE DON'T KNOW, AND WHETHER THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO KEEP INVESTING IN OR NOT.
>> YOU'RE THINKING LIKE A ONE YEAR TRIAL PROGRAM ON THREE BOXES, IS THAT?
>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, WE WANT APPROVAL FOR THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF THE UTILITY R BOXES.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY'RE GOING TO LAST.
WE JUST NEED PERMISSION FROM YOU GUYS BECAUSE IT'S IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, SAY, CAN WE PUT THESE WRAPS OFF? THEN WE'VE GOT TO ENTER INTO AGREEMENT WITH FPU AND FDOT ABOUT ALLOWING US TO DO THAT.
THEN SCHEDULING THE WORK, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT, OKAY, TIME WILL TELL WHETHER IT'S SUCCESSFUL OR NOT.
>> SO THIS IS LOOKING FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO JUST GO AHEAD AND START THE PROJECT AND FINISH IT WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK.
>> IF WE NEED TO COME BACK AND GIVE YOU UPDATES AT REGULAR INTERVALS AND SAY, HEY, GUESS WHAT, OUR REPS JUST STARTED PEELING OFF AFTER THREE MONTHS.
>> WELL, IF YOU FIND OUT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HOLD UP, I THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO COME BACK AND LET US KNOW THAT.
>> DOES THAT FLY FOR EVERYBODY? OKAY, SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION?
I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2025-008 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, 007, WE'LL AMEND THAT.
I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD, THAT HDC CASE HDC 2025-007 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLYING WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
[01:05:06]
>> THANK YOU. HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING.
>> YOU HAVE A LITTLE LEAGUE GAME TO GET [OVERLAPPING]. [LAUGHTER]
>> GOOD LUCK. DON'T BE ONE OF THOSE UGLY PARENTS THAT YELL. [NOISE].
[LAUGHTER] THEY [INAUDIBLE] TILL WE GET THERE.
>> THANK YOU, MAIN STREET. THANK YOU.
>> NOW, WE MOVE ON TO DISCUSSION ITEMS FOR THE BOARD.
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
DISCUSSION OF OLD TOWN PRESERVATION GUIDELINES.YOU HAD AN UPDATE FOR US, MIA?
>> WELL, LAST TIME WE TALKED TO YOU GUYS, WE'RE ALL GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
>> THEN I RECEIVED SOME COMMENTS FROM MEMBER BYRNES ALREADY, AND SHE ANNOTATED SOME PAGES AND SENT THEM OVER TO ME.
I THINK MOVING FORWARD, I'M JUST WAITING FOR COMMENTS LIKE I RECEIVED FROM MEMBER BYRNES, FROM YOU GUYS, THAT HAVE YOU HAD ANY EDITS OR QUESTIONS, OR CONCERNS ABOUT THE 2021 GUIDELINES.
THEN SIMILAR TO WHAT I'VE DONE WITH OLD TOWN, I WOULD CREATE A DOCUMENT WITH ALL THE NOTES PAGE BY PAGE, AND THEN WE'D MOVE FORWARD WITH REVISING THOSE DOCUMENTS TO REFLECT WHAT YOU GUYS WANT TO SEE AND THEN APPROVING THEM LATER ON.
I DON'T HAVE ANY REALLY OTHER UPDATES.
I'M JUST HERE TO LISTEN TO YOUR FEEDBACK ON THAT.
>> DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTARY NOW OR A QUESTION? MS. BYRNES.
>> JUST A MORE OF A GENERAL COMMENT.
I THINK THE GUIDELINES, OVERALL, THEY'RE GOOD, BUT WHAT'S NOT REALLY STRONGLY DEFINED OR CLEAR IS THE DIAGRAMS OR SKETCHES OF THE PEONIA AND THE MID, AM I SAYING IT RIGHT? THE PEONIA [OVERLAPPING].
>> THE MID-LOT. THERE'S NOT GREAT EXAMPLES OF IT IN THE PHOTOS AND THE DRAWINGS, AND I THINK FOR PEOPLE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT PART OF IT NEEDS WORK.
THAT'S [INAUDIBLE] IN WHAT I SAID.
WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GO DOWN THERE AND YOU WALK THE STREETS OR RIDE YOUR BIKE DOWN THE STREET, AS I DID, IT'S NOT SO EASY TO SEE IT ON THE HOUSES AND THE PROPERTIES.
IT'S DEFINITELY HANDLED IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES THERE.
IF THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS SPACE SO SPECIAL, AND IT DOES, I THINK THAT SOMEHOW WE SHOULD BE ENHANCING IT EITHER THROUGH THE ARCHITECTURE OR THROUGH SIGNAGE, OR MAPPING, WHATEVER IT IS IN THE FUTURE TO ENHANCE THE PLATTING OF THAT AREA.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? I DID TALK TO SAL, WHO WAS HERE WHEN THOSE GUIDELINES WERE DONE.
HIS MEMORY OF IT WAS THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL WORKSHOPS OR FOCUS GROUPS? MS. GASS, YOU WERE [OVERLAPPING] THERE.
>> OKAY. [INAUDIBLE]. SO TO TALK ABOUT THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES, AND HIS RECOLLECTION WAS THAT A DECISION WAS MADE TO NOT TO FORMALLY CREATE A NEW DOCUMENT.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE THAT MEMORY?
>> BECAUSE THERE WERE CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE RESIDENTS OF OLD TOWN BELIEVED TO BE TO NOT [OVERLAPPING].
>> IT WAS ABSORBED INTO WHAT HAD BEEN THERE BEFORE.
BUT IF THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT TO DO, WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND ENSURE THAT ALL OF OUR COMMENTS ARE TURNED IN TO MIA, AND MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN GIVE HER THE FEEDBACK SHE NEEDS AND GET MOVING WITH THIS BECAUSE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS THAT COULD TAKE WAY TOO LONG.
>> THIS MAKES THINGS SO MUCH MORE CLEAR, AND IT'S SO MUCH EASIER TO UNDERSTAND.
I'LL BE HONEST. I'M ONLY ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WAY THROUGH.
I'VE GOT THE ORIGINALS AND THIS OPENED UP ON MY ISLAND, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO GO THROUGH THEM TOGETHER.
I DIDN'T DO MY HOMEWORK ON THAT, SO I DON'T HAVE IT.
MY ONE THING I DID THINK ABOUT US WHILE I WAS GOING THROUGH THEM IS, DO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PHOTOS ARE UPDATED? THERE'S A LOT OF OLD PHOTOS OF BUILDINGS THAT EITHER DON'T EXIST ANYMORE OR HAVE BEEN CHANGED RADICALLY, ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S AN ADDRESS ATTACHED TO IT, IF SOMEBODY GOES THERE FOR REFERENCE.
THEN MAYBE WE PUT THE DATE, THE BLANK, BLANK ADDRESS WITH THE DATE, I DON'T KNOW.
[01:10:05]
BUT THAT'S ALL I HAVE AT THIS POINT.>> I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY IN THE DESIGN COMPONENT THAT IT'S NOT REALLY VERY RESTRICTIVE AT ALL IN TERMS OF WHAT THE AESTHETIC THAT SOMEBODY CAN BUILD.
I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY THERE.
I THINK IT'S ABOUT THE PLATTING AND THE PEONIAS TO DEFINE THAT.
>> TO MS. BYRNES POINT, I KNOW THAT EVERY CASE THAT I'VE SAT IN ON IN OLD TOWN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT MARKING OF A PEONIA SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHERE IT IS.
BUT, AGAIN, IT'S LIKE THE SANDBORN MAPS, IF YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S A PEONIA IN THAT SPACE OR THAT LITTLE MARKING ON THE HOUSE, IT'S NOT REALLY TELLING YOU VERY MUCH.
ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF SOME MARKER THAT WE PUT INTO THE GROUND?
>> YES. ABSOLUTELY. WHATEVER, A MARKER OR SIGN, SOMETHING THAT REALLY DEFINES IT.
THIS IS THE ONLY ONE IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.
THAT'S SIGNIFICANT. I THINK IT'S THE ONLY ONE, TOO.
>> THAT WAS THE LAST ONE, ANYWAY.
>> YEAH. FROM MY RESEARCH, I READ IT WAS THE ONLY ONE.
I DON'T KNOW. BUT I COULD BE WRONG.
BUT YEAH, THAT'S SIGNIFICANT, AND THAT MAKES IT SPECIAL.
>> IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE COULD MARK OR PUT A MAP MARKING WHERE THE HOSPITAL WAS, THE CONVENT WAS, OR POST OFFICE WAS.
>> WE JUST NEED TO GET YOU SOME UTILITY BOXES, AND THEY CAN WRAP THEM. [LAUGHTER]
>> BUT I THINK THERE'S DEFINITELY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT.
BUT I THINK THEY CAN KEEP IN MIND THAT WILL PROBABLY BRING MORE PEOPLE INTO THAT AREA LOOKING AT IT, AND IS THAT GOING TO BE DESIRABLE TO THE RESIDENTS THERE.
>> THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THE CASE OF WHERE ARE WE PUTTING THESE MARKERS? ARE THEY IN THE RIGHT OF WAY? ARE THEY UP AT THE PROPERTY LINE, AT THE BOUNDARIES? THEN DO WE HAVE MORE CLUTTER?[OVERLAPPING].
>> [OVERLAPPING] BEEN RIGHT AWAY. [LAUGHTER]
>> IF WE CAN BLUE SKY THIS, BUT NOT TODAY.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO TODAY IS JUST GET CONSENSUS THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS THIS FURTHER.
>> I WOULD JUST SAY, SO WHAT SAL SAID WAS, THEY HAD SOME CHARRETTES AND ENGAGEMENT SESSIONS WITH THE RESIDENTS OF OLD TOWN.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS [INAUDIBLE] REQUIRED FOR THIS ROUND OF PROVISIONS?
>> AS FAR AS I'M AWARE, THE DOCUMENT THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US RIGHT NOW INCORPORATES THE RESULTS OF THE CHARRETTES.
>> THAT'S ACCURATE. I WAS AT BOTH OF THOSE CHARRETTES.
>> THEY UNFORTUNATELY WERE VERY DIVISIVE.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO CAME CAME TO VENT THEIR SPLEEN ABOUT THINGS THAT WEREN'T ABOUT THE GUIDELINES BUT WERE JUST ABOUT OLD TOWN IN GENERAL.
THEY WERE UNCOMFORTABLE, TO SAY THE LEAST.
ON THE OTHER PART, VERONICA IS RUNNING DOWN THE SAME LINE THAT I HAVE MANY TIMES THAT IF THE GRADE IS THE IMPORTANT THING, WHY CAN'T WE PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT REALLY HIGHLIGHTS IT AND CALLS ATTENTION TO IT SOMEHOW WITHOUT WITHOUT HAVE A FOREST OF SIGNS RUNNING DOWN THE ROAD, BUT MAYBE LITTLE MARKERS DOWN THE [OVERLAPPING].
>> IT LOOKS LIKE A SURVEY [OVERLAPPING].
>> THAT HAS A DISTINCTIVE LOOK TO IT.
BUT THERE WAS NO APPETITE FOR THE FIRST TIME I SAID IT, BUT NOW I'M GLAD I GOT ANOTHER PERSON [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] BECAUSE I THINK IT HAS SOME VALUE TOO.
>> WELL, I THINK IF THE, IT'S NOT AN IF.
OUR JOB IS TO PROTECT THAT GRID, SO THAT MAKES THE GRID UPPERMOST IN PRIORITY AS FAR AS WHAT WE LOOK AT.
I BELIEVE THAT IT MERITS SOME RECOGNITION OF A GRID.
MAYBE THE MEDALLIONS THAT MS. FINKELSTEIN HAD SHOWN US FOR DOWNTOWN, MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE THAT INTO THE GROUND.
BUT, OF COURSE, THAT'S AN EXPENSE.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DETERMINE WHERE DO THEY GO? WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE? WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY ARE THEY, ALL OF THE ABOVE? I JUST THINK WE NEED TO PUT THIS ON A FUTURE AGENDA, MAYBE GIVE US TWO MORE MEETINGS, AND WE HAVE SOME TIME TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND FIND OUT IF ANY OTHER COMMUNITY DOES SOMETHING.
>> I CAN DO SOME CASE STUDIES AND SEE IF OTHER GRIDDED PLACES WHERE THE PLAN IS THE FOCUS OF PRESERVATION, I CAN SEE HOW THEY CALL THAT OUT.
BECAUSE I KNOW WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING INTO OLD TOWN, IF YOU GO,
[01:15:01]
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ROAD IS, BUT THE MAIN ROAD. IT'S WHITE.>> THEY HAVE A BIG SIGN THAT LAST SPANISH PLAT IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, AND IT'S BIG AND IT HAS THE PLAT ON IT LIKE.
[OVERLAPPING] FOR ME, WHEN I DRIVE PEOPLE TO OLD TOWN, PEOPLE WHO ARE VISITING, I'M LIKE, THIS IS THE LAST SPANISH PLAT WHEN WE DRIVE PAST THAT SIGN.
>> THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST ONE OF US.
BUT MOST PEOPLE READ THAT AND DON'T HAVE A CLUE.
>> NOBODY EVEN NOTICES THE TYPO.
>> I ALSO WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT THE THING I LIKE ABOUT THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES IS THE GRAPHICS AND THE ARTWORK HAVE A CONSISTENT HAND TO THEM, AND THEY'RE VERY SPECIFIC TO OUR OLD TOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE EXAMPLES AND THE HOUSES THAT THEY'RE SHOWING ARE FROM OLD TOWN, THEY'RE NOT SOMETHING YANKED, AND I'M HEARKENING OVER TO THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, THEY'VE GOT IMAGES FROM BUILDINGS FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA GUIDELINES THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FERNANDINA.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I REALLY LIKE ABOUT THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES.
A CONSISTENT HAND AND EXAMPLES FROM OLD TOWN.
>> I THINK TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT, THE LAYOUT, IT'S SO CLEAR, THERE'S NO CLUTTER.
THAT WAS ONE OF MY CONCERNS WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THESE TWO DOCUMENTS, THEY'RE LIKE 180 DEGREES APART.
THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE THEY CAME FROM THE SAME CITY OR THEY'RE FOR THE SAME CITY.
THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT AREAS, BUT THE OLD TOWN LAYOUT AND HOW IT'S PRESENTED IS FAR SUPERIOR AND EASIER TO GET A HANDLE ON THAN WHEN I GO THROUGH, UNFORTUNATELY, THE NEW DESIGN GUIDELINES.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE MASSAGE THAT ENTIRE DOCUMENT BACK INTO SOMETHING THAT'S USER-FRIENDLY AND READABLE AND CLEAR.
IT JUST SEEMS LIKE [OVERLAPPING].
>> TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM?
>> I TALKED TO KELLY ABOUT THIS, AND I'M SURE I'VE TALKED TO YOU GUYS ABOUT THIS.
I THINK IT'S TOO BIG OF A TASK FOR ME TO LEARN INDESIGN AND FOR ME TO GO IN AND EDIT THAT DESIGN DOCUMENT.
MY IDEA IS TO TAKE THIS NOTES DOCUMENT THAT I STARTED IN MY FIRST WEEK HERE AND REALLY HONE THAT IN WITH WHAT YOU ALL WANT TO SEE CHANGE IN THAT DOCUMENT.
THAT INCLUDES MOVING THE OVERVIEW BEFORE THE STEPS THERE, HAVING A FULL PAGE ON I THINK RESILIENCY CONCEPT THAT THROUGHOUT IT, AND HAVING A DETAILED AND ACCURATE HISTORY OF THE CREATION OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AS WELL AS BETTER PHOTOS THAT INCLUDES THE FOOTING AND THE ROOF LINES OF ALL THE BUILDINGS, MAYBE HAVE BETTER LIGHTING.
FOR ME TO JUST HAND ALL OF THOSE EDITS BACK TO THE CONSULTANTS.
KELLY HAS TALKED TO THE CITY MANAGER THAT WE COULD USE FUNDS FOR THAT, SO I CAN REALLY HONE IN THAT NOTES DOCUMENT AND GET SOME BETTER PHOTOS AND GET SOME BETTER LANGUAGE IN THERE, AND THEN I WORK WITH THE CONSULTANT FOR THEM TO UPDATE THE DOCUMENT BECAUSE INDESIGN IS NOT SOMETHING I KNOW AND CARE TO LEARN.
>> CAN WE GIVE THEM THE OLD TOWN DOCUMENT AS A LEAD TO TRY TO FOLLOW?
>> I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH THE SCOPE OF WORK FOR THEM WOULD INCLUDE REMAKING THE DOCUMENT.
BECAUSE I THINK TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THE OLD TOWN ONE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO SCRAP AND START OVER.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT WOULD BE THE SCOPE OF WORK THAT WE DETERMINED WITH KELLY, SARAH, AND THE CONSULTANT.
>> IS THAT, I PRESUME, JUST BASED ON THE BUDGET THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE?
>> WELL, THAT'S JUST WHAT I ASSUME BASED ON WE'VE ALREADY PAID THEM TO DO THIS.
>> WE'VE ALREADY ACCEPTED THE DOCUMENT.
THIS IS LIKE BACKTRACKING AND BE LIKE, HEY, WE ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE THESE 20 PAGES OF EDITS, WHAT THAT GOING TO COST.
>> I'M TOTALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH TAMMI THAT THE OLD TOWN DOCUMENT IS SO CLEAR AND CLEAN AND SO EASY TO GET THROUGH, WHEREAS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, THEY'RE A CHALLENGE.
I KNOW WHAT I'M LOOKING AT AND IT DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE SENSE TO ME.
I THINK AS MUCH OPPORTUNITY AS WE HAVE TO CLARIFY IT, WHATEVER THAT BUDGET IS, IF WE CAN MAKE THAT WORK, I THINK THAT WOULD BE WHAT I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF.
>> MAYBE WHAT HAPPENS FIRST WITH THE CONSULTANTS, IF IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO GO BACK TO THEM, RATHER THAN TO CREATE THE DOCUMENT SOME OTHER WAY.
>> THEN MAYBE THE FIRST CONVERSATION IS, LOOK, THIS IS THE OLD TOWN DOCUMENT.
THIS IS THE WAY THIS WAS FORMATTED,
[01:20:01]
THIS IS THE WAY THE CONTENT WAS PRESENTED.ALONG WITH THESE EDITS, DO THAT, AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY.
>> I LIKE THAT IDEA, BUT I FEEL LIKE I'D BE DISCREDITING MYSELF.
HERE IS OUR UNADOPTED REVISIONS TO OUR OLD TOWN THAT WASN'T ADOPTED, AND WE DON'T USE.
>> MAYBE BY THE TIME YOU MEET WITH THE CONSULTANTS, WE'LL HAVE THAT ADOPTED, OR HAVE OUR CONSENSUS ON APPROVAL ON IT.
>> I THINK SPEAK WITH THEM, SEE WHAT IT ACTUALLY INVOLVES.
SOMEONE WHO KNOWS IN DESIGN, IT'S PROBABLY NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL TO DO IT.
OF COURSE, IT'S TIME, BUT IF YOU KNOW WITH A PROGRAM, THEN THEY PROBABLY COULD GET THROUGH IT FAIRLY QUICKLY, BUT I THINK HAVE THEM LOOK AT IT.
>> IT MIGHT BE CHEAPER TO FIND JUST SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS IN DESIGN AND GIVE IT TO THEM TO DO IT.
I CAN LEARN IT. IT'S JUST A BIG UNDERTAKING.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IT'S A BIG HEAVY PROGRAM.
IF THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE A FOCUS.
>> I CAN MAKE IT A CAMPO. I'LL MAKE IT LOOK JUST AS GOOD IN CAMPO.
>> SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APPLES AND ORANGES.
HERE'S THE PLAT. DON'T MESS IT UP.
LET'S MARK WHERE THE CORNERS ARE.
WE'LL SHOW YOU WHAT WAS BUILT HERE BEFORE.
WE WERE HERE FIRST, AND THEN THEY ALL MOVED DOWNTOWN.
YOU COME DOWNTOWN, NOW EVERYBODY WANTS TO PRESERVE EVERYTHING, AND THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CORNERS, THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BUILDINGS, THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING.
YOU GET REAL INVOLVED WHEN YOU GET DOWNTOWN, BUT OLD TOWN, DON'T MESS WITH THE LAND.
WE GOT A FEW PRETTY PIECES OF PROPERTY LEFT HOUSES, BUT JUST DON'T MESS WITH THE LAND.
>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND AGREE PARTIALLY THAT IT IS MORE COMPLICATED DOWNTOWN, BUT I THINK THE FORMAT OF THE WAY YOU PRESENT THE INFORMATION IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
PUT IT IN A FORMAT THAT IS EASIER TO DEAL WITH AND MORE SIMILAR TO THE OLD TOWN ONE.
I I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE EVER SAID WE WERE DONE WITH THAT DOCUMENT.
I BELIEVE THAT TO GO BACK TO THE CONSULTANTS IS NOT SAYING TO THEM, WE ACCEPTED THIS, BUT WE DIDN'T MEAN IT.
IF THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, OR IF THERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO GO, THEN LET'S PURSUE WHAT IT IS.
I HAVE MAJOR CONCERNS ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT THESE FOLKS ARE BRINGING UP ABOUT THE DOCUMENT ITSELF? WHAT I DO NOT WANT US TO DO IS TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS GREAT CONFUSION THAT LIES OUT THERE IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO, WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IS MAKING IT EASIER FOR THEM.
THE MORE WE CAN DO ALONG THOSE LINES, THE BETTER.
CAN YOU GO BACK AND COME BACK TO US WITH YOUR PROPOSAL OF HOW IT SHOULD GO? WHAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW IS COMMENTARY FROM EVERYBODY WITH CHANGES OR WHATEVER.
MAYBE I JUST SLEPT THROUGH THAT MEETING, BUT WHAT I'M IN THE DARK ABOUT IS WHERE DO WE STAND WITH MAKING ANY OF THESE GUIDELINES REAL LAWS? WHAT I REMEMBER US SAYING WAS THAT WE WOULD REFERENCE THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT IN THE LDC.
WHAT I AM TOLD IS THAT THAT'S ALREADY DONE.
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, IF YOU'VE REFERENCE THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT IN THE LDC, THAT MAKES IT LAW.
IT DOES NOT, SO HOW DO WE MAKE ANY OF IT LAW? I'M LOOKING TO YOU GUYS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
>> THE OLD TOWN 2021 REVISIONS, SOME THINGS FROM THAT DOCUMENT WERE CHERRY PICKED AND PUT INTO THE LDC.
WE COULD CHERRY PICK FROM [OVERLAPPING]
>> THE WORDS HAVE TO BE CLEAR AND CONCISE, NOT SHOULD BE.
>> SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT YOU GOT FROM ME, I KNOW WERE WILL BE OR SHALL BE,.
>> JUST TO SPEAK TO PROCEDURE, PROCEDURALLY, IF YOU WERE TO WANT TO TAKE THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES OR THE OLD TOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, YOU WOULD WANT TO ADOPT THEM BY REFERENCE, WHICH MEANS THAT THE ENTIRETY OF THAT DOCUMENT STANDS AS PART OF THE LDC AND IS ENFORCEABLE IN ITS ENTIRETY.
THE ISSUE WITH THAT IN BOTH THE DOWNTOWN AND OLD TOWN GUIDELINES IS THERE ARE WIDE RANGES OF WHAT IS ALLOWED,
[01:25:06]
DEPENDING ON THE RESOURCE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OR THE GROUND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND HOW TO APPLY THOSE CAN HAVE A VARIETY OF WAYS IN HOW YOU APPLY THEM.IT ISN'T EASY TO ADOPT A GUIDELINE THAT IS THAT FLEXIBLE AS LAW WITHOUT THEN SAYING YOU'RE GOING TO NEED VARIANCES FROM CERTAIN ASPECTS OF IT.
AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, THE BETTER APPROACH MAY BE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE WITH THEM AS GUIDELINES.
THEY ARE REFERENCED WITHIN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT THOSE THINGS THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE ARE CODIFIED, THAT WE PICK THAT OUT AND PUT THEM INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, SIGNAGE.
YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE A CLEARER DEFINITION OF A SIGN TYPE BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A PARTICULAR PROBLEM WITH THAT TYPE OF SIGN.
WE CAN ADOPT A DEFINITION FOR THAT SIGN TYPE AND CLARIFY WHEN IT WOULD BE MADE PERMISSIBLE.
OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE TO SEEK A VARIANCE IN ORDER TO DO THAT, BUT TO PICK UP THE ENTIRETY OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND ADOPT THEM BY REFERENCE MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO APPLY THEM CONSISTENTLY WITHOUT PUSHING EVERYBODY INTO A VARIANCE.
>> WHAT THAT TELLS ME IS THAT WE'RE BACK TO SQUARE ONE WITH MY OPENING QUESTION ABOUT THIS DOCUMENT, WHICH WAS, WHAT ARE OUR SACRED COWS? WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS THAT WE BELIEVE SHOULD BE CODIFIED OUT OF THAT ENTIRE DOCUMENT? BECAUSE I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S VERY CONFUSING TO AN APPLICANT TO COME IN HERE, BE TOLD THIS IS A QUASI JUDICIAL MEETING, WHICH IT IS, AND THAT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO OR NOT, AND IT SAYS IT'S ONLY A GUIDELINE.
THAT, TO ME, IS CONFUSING TO THE PUBLIC.
MAYBE IT'S JUST ME, BUT I FEEL WE SHOULD BE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT WITH THIS.
I'M LOOKING FOR ADVICE FROM ALL OF YOU AND FROM STAFF ON HOW DO WE GO ABOUT PICKING OUT THOSE SACRED COWS?
>> I THINK IN THE DOWNTOWN, IT'S A LOT EASIER BECAUSE IT'S ANYTHING THAT IS QUANTIFIABLE AND SPECIFIC, SO IT'S SETBACKS, IT'S ROOF HEIGHTS.
>> EVEN THAT WE GET SITE SPECIFIC SETBACKS, WHERE WE HAVE A FRONT YARD SETBACK THAT COULD BE MORE OR LESS BECAUSE ALL THE HOUSES ALONG STREET ARE CONTACT SENSITIVE.
>> THAT'S INTEREST, AND THAT'S ALREADY IN THERE RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S IN BOTH DOCUMENTS, THE LDC AND IN OUR DOCUMENTS THAT REFERENCES THAT.
>> IN MY WORK, IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY TIME I GET A NEW, I HAVE TO COME MEET KELLY BECAUSE WE'VE JUST DISCOVERED SOME NEW THING THAT HAS I'VE NEVER DEALT WITH, AND KELLY HAS TO DIG INTO ALL THIS STUFF TO DREDGE UP.
WHAT IS THE RULE NOW? BECAUSE HERE'S THIS WEIRD, QUIRKY CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WE HAVEN'T ENCOUNTERED BEFORE.
>> THAT'S THE THING. WHEN IT COMES UP, THEN WE'RE LIKE [INAUDIBLE].
LIKE NOW I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THESE THINGS, I CAN'T EVEN.
>> BUT AIN'T THAT THE NATURE OF THE BEAST?
>> WHAT DO WE SAY? CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHERE WE'RE GOING FROM HERE?
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. ARE YOU ABLE TO PERHAPS GIVE AN EXAMPLE? I THINK WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, I'M PARAPHRASING, THAT, WE WOULD END UP WITH SO MANY MORE VARIANCES, BUT I'M NOT SURE THEY UNDERSTAND WHY THAT IS THE CASE IF THE WHOLE DOCUMENT'S GETS COVERED.
IT WOULD HELP ME UNDERSTAND IT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
WE CAN MAYBE COME BACK TO THIS ANOTHER TIME.
I DON'T REALLY WANT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT.
>> EVEN JUST ON THE RESILIENCY PIECE OF IT, IT TALKS ABOUT DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF HOW YOU ADDRESS RESILIENCY AND HOW YOU MIGHT GO ABOUT ADDRESSING RESILIENCY, BUT IS THAT REQUIRED EVERY TIME THAT YOU ANALYZE A PROJECT? IS IT REQUIRED THAT YOU BRING IN THOSE FLOOD PLAIN CHARACTERISTICS WHEN THERE IS A SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA? HOW TO APPLY THAT BECAUSE IT'S A GUIDELINE, WE ARE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY EACH TIME AND APPLY TO THAT SPECIFIC SITUATION, VERSUS SOMETHING THAT'S A RULE, YOU MUST APPLY RESILIENCY HERE.
>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS.
WHAT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE IS IF YOU CAN,
[01:30:02]
MIA, BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING, FIND OUT FROM THE CONSULTANTS JUST WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHAT WE KNOW NOW NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, HOW BIG OF WIGGLE IS THAT, AND WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE JUST CAN'T DO.>> I JUST PULLED UP THE GUIDELINES, AND I THINK THIS MIGHT ANSWER VERONICA'S QUESTION.
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE UNDER RESIDENTIAL ADDITIONS.
THE FIRST OF WHICH IS, BEFORE BUILDING AN ADDITION, ATTEMPT TO ACCOMMODATE NEEDED FUNCTIONS WITHIN THE EXISTING BUILDING.
HOW DO YOU CODIFY THAT? ATTEMPT. THAT'S A TRICKY.
THE SECOND ONE IS, LIMIT THE SIZE OF THE NEW ADDITION SO AS NOT TO OVERWHELM.
WE DON'T HAVE A PRESCRIBED PERCENTAGE OR ANYTHING.
IT JUST SAYS LIMIT IT SO AS NOT TO OVERWHELM.
>> BUT MAYBE THEN THAT WORD, INSTEAD OF ANALYZE [OVERLAPPING]
>> YEAH. I KNOW, THIS IS A CHALLENGE.
>> RESPECT THE SCALE AND MASSING.
ARE YOU RESPECTING IT? ARE YOU NOT RESPECTING IT?
>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, THAT EMPHASIZES YOU-ALL'S RULE.
BECAUSE IF IT'S AN LDC AND I KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS, IT'S ALL STAFF APPROVAL.
GO STRAIGHT TO LDC AND THEY SAY YES OR NO.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL, BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DO IS NOT HAVE PEOPLE SAYING, YOU LET SO AND SO DO IT.
BECAUSE I HEAR THAT A LOT AND I'D REALLY RATHER NOT HEAR THAT.
PLEASE GIVE SOME THOUGHT, ALL OF YOU, TO THOSE THINGS.
TAMMY'S SUGGESTION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S QUANTIFIABLE, MAYBE IS WHERE WE SHOULD START WITH THAT IDEA OF CODIFYING AND SEE IF YOU FIND ANYTHING ELSE.
BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS WORK THAT GETS DONE PROBABLY WITHOUT COMING TO TALK TO US OR COMING TO TALK TO US AND THEN GOING OFF AND DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
WHAT'S THE RECOURSE THAT WE HAVE WHEN THOSE THINGS HAPPEN?
>> I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT GIVES SOMEBODY CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE TYPES OF ACTIONS.
>> IN TERMS OF THE JUST OVERALL LAYOUT AND THE INITIAL DIRECTION PROVIDED TO THE CONSULTANT WAS TO TAKE THAT 8 1/2 BY 11 PAGE BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO FIT INTO THAT DOCUMENT AND AS IT RELATES TO WHETHER IT'S DEMOLITION OR IT IS ROOF FORM.
THE LAYOUT OF IT AS TO 11 BY 17 MADE SENSE TO APPLY IT IN THAT WAY.
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT TRYING TO PUSH IT BACK TO 8 1/2 BY 11.
I JUST DON'T THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE LEVEL OF DETAIL THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IN A CONCISE FORMAT WHEN YOU DO THAT BECAUSE DOWNTOWN IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN OLD TOWN.
THE ASPECTS OF THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE UNIQUE TO DOWNTOWN AND ARE NOT THE SAME AS WHAT YOU WOULD FIND IN THE OLD TOWN AREA.
IT MAKES SENSE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE 11 BY 17 FORMAT.
THE OTHER PIECE, WE WERE VERY DELIBERATE IN TAKING THOSE COMPONENTS THAT SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MAYBE TO REVIEW AS A SEPARATE DOCUMENT, THINGS LIKE THE HISTORY OF WHY WE HAVE OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND MADE THAT AN APPENDIX.
WE HAVE SEVERAL APPENDICES AS PART OF THIS DOCUMENT.
WE DIDN'T WANT TO CROWD THE MEAT OF WHAT AN INDIVIDUAL OWNER OR PROSPECTIVE OWNER WOULD NEED TO SEE IN ORDER TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT NOT THEIR PARTICULAR PROJECT MAY BE FEASIBLE.
THE FOCUS IN OUR DIRECTION TO THEM WAS REALLY MAKE THE DOCUMENT USER-FRIENDLY, MAKE IT SO THAT IT IS STEP BY STEP SO THAT YOU COULD EASILY LOOK AT THIS, FLIP TO A PAGE, FIND OUT WHAT IT IS THAT I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT AND UNDERSTAND ALL OF IT IN A SINGLE SPACE.
MY MAIN REASON FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS IS THE PIECE ABOUT THE DETAILED HISTORY, IT'S THERE.
IT'S JUST NOT A PROMINENT UP FRONT FEATURE OF THE DOCUMENT BECAUSE IT'S NOT SUPER HELPFUL TO SOMEONE WHO'S TRYING TO PICK UP THE INFORMATION AND LEARN ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
[01:35:02]
>> I THINK CHANGING BECAUSE WE SAW THE 8 1/2 BY 11 VERSION FIRST.
I THINK IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE GOING TO THE 11 BY 17.
IT HELPED DRAMATICALLY IN ORGANIZATION AND LAYOUT.
>> THE OTHER DIFFERENCE IS PROBABLY THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS AS AN ONLINE VIEWING THING.
ORIGINALLY, THE 2021 WAS PROBABLY A 8 1/2 BY 11 NOTEBOOK, PRINTABLE.
>> WHAT I WANT TO DO IS CLARIFY FOR KELLY, YOU, AND ME WHAT I'M SAYING WHEN I SAY FORMAT.
I DON'T CARE HOW BIG THE PAGE IS.
WHAT I'M LOOKING AT WHEN I TALK ABOUT FORMAT IS THE CONTENT FLOW, THE INFORMATION FLOW IS MUCH SIMPLER READING THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW COMPLICATED IT IS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IT JUST HAS TO DO WITH THE FLOW.
MY OTHER BIG WIGGLE ON ALL OF THAT WAS REFERENCING LDC WHERE WE NEEDED TO BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF PLACES THAT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A STANDALONE GUIDELINE WITHOUT THE CONTEXT OF WHERE IT LIVES IN ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OTHER REQUIREMENTS.
TO MAKE SURE THOSE THINGS ARE DONE, ALL I'M TRYING TO DO IS MAKE IT AS EASY AS IT CAN BE JUST AS YOU ARE.
I THINK THERE ARE JUST A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO LOOK AT THAT.
AGAIN, I WILL SUGGEST THAT WHEN YOU TAKE THAT BACK TO THE CONSULTANTS, THAT YOU TAKE THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES AS THEY LOOK RIGHT NOW AND ASK THEM FORMAT, NOT CONTENT.
THE CONTENT IS WHAT GETS APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION, THE FORMAT DOESN'T MATTER TO THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE DOCUMENT.
WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR FROM THE CONSULTANTS IS, DO YOU SEE ANY BENEFIT IN DOING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE DONE IN THE OLD TOWN DOCUMENT? I'M NOT TRYING TO CHANGE THE LAW, I'M NOT TRYING TO CREATE WORK, I'M JUST TRYING TO ASK THEM.
>> TO CLARIFY, WHEN YOU SAY FORMAT, YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY SAYING CHANGE FROM LANDSCAPE TO PORTRAIT.
IT'S MORE OF A STYLE THAN THE FORMAT?
>> YES. SORRY, I'M USING THE WRONG WORD, STYLE.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO TALK WITH YOU MORE.
>> ONE OTHER CLARIFYING POINT.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE ALSO VERY DELIBERATE ABOUT IS ENSURING THAT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE INCONSISTENCIES LATER ON IN DIRECT CONFLICTS WHEN YOU UPDATE A PARTICULAR CODE, THAT THAT CODE REFERENCE ISN'T CITED SOMEWHERE OVER HERE THAT WE WOULD THEN HAVE TO GO IN AND UPDATE.
FOR THAT REASON, WHERE IT'S A SPECIFIC ZONING STANDARD, IT'S NOT IN THE GUIDELINES, IT'S IN THE CODE.
>> IN CASE THAT CHANGES IN THE FUTURE.
>> CORRECT. IS IT THE BOARD'S DIRECTION THAT YOU WANT TO SEE THAT, OR PERHAPS WE CREATE A SEPARATE DOCUMENT THAT JUST HAS SOME CROSS-REFERENCING, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH OUR COMP PLAN, WHERE WE HAVE AN INDEX THAT REFERENCES CERTAIN TOPICS SO THAT YOU COULD EASILY THUMB TO IT AND SAY, NOW, HERE'S ALL THE PLACES WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT WINDOWS, HERE'S ALL THE PLACES WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT JUST RESILIENCY AS A TOPIC, WHICH PAGES THEY ARE ON? SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT MIGHT BE MORE BENEFICIAL.
THEN WE COULD CROSS-REFERENCE THAT INTO THE CODE TOO AS A SEPARATE DOCUMENT.
>> USABILITY AND ENSURING THAT WE DON'T MISLEAD PEOPLE BY NOT TELLING THEM THAT SOMETHING ELSE EXISTS.
ZONING MIGHT CHANGE WHAT YOU JUST THOUGHT WE SAID.
>> THAT'S UP FRONT IN THAT DOCUMENT IS CHECK THE ZONING, TALK WITH A PLANNER.
THAT'S ONE OF THE VERY FIRST STEPS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE DOCUMENT.
DO NOT PROCEED UNTIL YOU'VE ALSO CHECKED IT AGAINST THE ZONING CODE.
BUT IT DIDN'T GET EXPLICIT IN EACH SECTION OF WE KNOW WHERE THOSE CODES APPLY.
>> I WILL SAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT, AND IT WOULD BE NEAT IF I COULD CREATE A MAILER OR A LITTLE PACKET TO DISTRIBUTE TO REAL ESTATE AGENTS WHO SELL PROPERTY IN DOWNTOWN.
BE LIKE, HEY, BEFORE YOU SELL THIS PROPERTY, PLEASE LET YOUR CLIENTS KNOW THAT IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT CHANGES WOULD HAVE TO COME THROUGH STAFF OR HDC, AND JUST UPFRONT, LETTING PEOPLE KNOW IF THEY'RE BUYING A NEW PROPERTY THAT [OVERLAPPING] YOU ARE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WE DO IT THIS WAY.
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY PART OF SELLER'S DISCLOSURE,
[01:40:02]
THAT THEY HAVE TO CHECK A BOX IF THE PROPERTY IS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT OR NOT.I KNOW THE PROPERTY I'M THINKING ABOUT IS OVER ON 15TH STREET, THAT HAD TO BE A PART OF THAT, SO I JUST HAD TO DOUBLE-CHECK IT.
I THINK THAT'S ALREADY [OVERLAPPING].
>> PACKETS THAT HAVE MY BUSINESS CARD ON IT, AND PLEASE CALL ME [INAUDIBLE] IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
>> [INAUDIBLE] I JUST THINK THAT THE MORE INFORMATION WE PROVIDE TO PEOPLE, THE BETTER WE ARE.
>> THAT'S NOT REALLY RELATED TO [INAUDIBLE].
>> IT WASN'T IN THE AGENDA PACKET, BUT I DID SEND IT OUT IN AN EMAIL TO YOU ALL WITH HIGHLIGHTS.
THESE WERE PULLED DIRECTLY FROM WHAT VICE CHAIR POZZETTA SENT ME IN CHANGING THEM, INCLUDING AN UPDATED GRAPHIC, WHICH HAS THE SHUTTERS HISTORICALLY, ACCURATELY CONNECTED TO THE WINDOW RATHER THAN JUST TACKED ON THERE LIKE THE ORIGINAL GRAPHIC WAS.
THIS IS ON THE AGENDA TO DISCUSS FURTHER CHANGES TO THIS DOCUMENT, DISCUSS THE ADDITION OF AN ACCOMPANYING DOOR SURVEY.
THEN I GOT SOME INFORMATION FROM MEMBER BYRNES EARLIER WHEN SHE MENTIONED THAT WE SHOULD REALLY TRY TO HAVE A THIRD-PARTY FILL OUT THE SURVEY, OTHER THAN THE WINDOW SALESMAN.
NOW, THIS IS OPEN TO YOU GUYS.
>> DO YOU WANT A COUPLE OR JUST MINOR TYPO-TYPE THINGS?
>> [OVERLAPPING] I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER TO DISCUSS THAT [OVERLAPPING].
>> I CAN SEND THEM TO YOU IF THAT'S [OVERLAPPING] BECAUSE THAT'S EASY.
>> ANYBODY ELSE WITH COMMENTS?
>> TAMMI, I'LL WAIT ON YOURS, I'LL INCORPORATE VERONICA'S COMMENTS, AND THEN I CAN SEND THAT OUT, AND THEN MAYBE INDIVIDUALLY DISCUSS IT WITH EACH OF YOU.
I DON'T KNOW HOW [INAUDIBLE] WORK WITH THAT ONE.
BUT AT THE NEXT MEETING, I COULD HAVE A FINALIZED, UPDATED WINDOW SURVEY.
>> I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD.
>> THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT, MIA.
>> FOR ME, ANYWAY, SITTING HERE ON THIS BOARD, I GET THE PART WHERE A WINDOW REP IS GOING TO SEE THINGS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE ELSE.
FOR ME, WHAT THE IMPORTANT THING IS IS FOR US AS A BOARD TO GET A DOCUMENT THAT SAYS, HERE'S THE WINDOWS IN QUESTION, HERE'S PHOTOGRAPHS, GOOD DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHS OF EACH WINDOW, AND THEN SPECIFICS, HEY, THIS JAM IS ALL ROTTEN, AND WE BELIEVE IT SHUT, HERE'S A PHOTO OF WHY WE'RE SAYING THAT.
I THINK, FOR ME, THE IMPORTANT PART IS THAT THIS THING SHOULD DIRECT THEM HOW MAYBE THEY GET AN EXAMPLE OF A GOOD VERSION.
THAT TAKES THAT WINDOW REP FACTOR OUT OF THE EQUATION A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE'RE BEING GIVEN THE EVIDENCE AND WE CAN ASSESS IT BY LOOKING AT IT AND WE CAN MAKE OUR OWN DETERMINATION ONCE WE HAVE EVIDENCE [INAUDIBLE].
>> IS THAT GOOD? WE HAVE A REMINDER THAT THE DATE FOR THE JUNE MEETING IS MOVED TO JUNE 26TH AT FIVE O'CLOCK, SO PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR CALENDARS ARE UPDATED.
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT STAFFS CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL FOR APRIL?
[7. STAFF REPORT]
>> THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO IT'S 23 SOUTH TENTH STREET.
IT WAS A FENCE PROJECT, AND ALTHOUGH THE PERMIT DOESN'T SAY PAVERS, UNLESS I'M MISSING IT, THERE WAS THERE WAS NEW PAVERS INSTALLED AND A FENCE.
MIA AND I HAVE EMAILED ABOUT THIS.
MY CONCERN IS THAT WHEN SOMETHING POTENTIALLY GOES TO STAFF APPROVAL, IF IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR, AND I UNDERSTAND MIA, IT DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE EXPERIENCE YET, THAT SHE'LL HAVE A COUPLE OF YEARS FROM NOW, WHATEVER, THAT SOMETHING GETS APPROVED THAT MAY BE INAPPROPRIATE.
I GET IT. THE DESCRIPTION IN THIS PROPERTY, THE DESCRIPTION, IT SAYS, REMOVE AND REPLACE WOOD FENCE.
WHAT I'M PRESUMING MIA UNDERSTOOD, IT'S LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO REMOVE IT AND REPLACE IT IN KIND.
EVEN THOUGH THE WORDS IN KIND ARE NOT THERE.
IT IS A FENCE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THAT HOUSE.
IT NEEDS WORK, IT'S A LITTLE GEM OF A SHOTGUN HOUSE.
NOW THAT FENCE, THEY'RE LIKE ONE BY FOURS AND THEY'RE JUST CUT FLAT AT THE TOP.
I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT HINGES.
THE HINGES ARE HORRIFIC, BUT I KNOW WE CAN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT THOSE HERE.
BUT THE FENCE IS INAPPROPRIATE.
[01:45:01]
THERE'S REALLY NOTHING, I THINK, WE CAN DO AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THE SCOPE OF WORK WASN'T CLEAR.I DON'T REALLY THINK YOU CAN GO BACK AND SAY, WELL, YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO DO BECAUSE THEY REMOVED AND REPLACED THE EXISTING FENCE.
BUT IT'S AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SEEING THIS UNTIL IT GETS TO US, WHICH IS, THE WEEK BEFORE OUR MEETING.
THAT FENCE WAS INSTALLED A WEEK OR TWO WEEKS AGO, WHATEVER IT WAS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT IN THE FUTURE, OR PERHAPS JUST GET MORE INFORMATION FOR PROJECTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE STAFF APPROVAL.
THE OTHER PART OF IT IS THAT THAT HOMEOWNER ALSO PUT ALL NEW PAVERS DOWN, THAT, AGAIN, THEY LOOK TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE.
THEY DON'T MATCH THE BRICK THAT'S THERE, AND SO WHOLE THINGS AN EYESORE.
I DON'T KNOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS MOVING FORWARD, BUT IT'S [OVERLAPPING].
>> I'LL JUST MAKE SURE ON MY PHONE IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
>> WELL, YOU HAVE A GOOD POINT BECAUSE THE TERM REMOVE AND REPLACE IS VERY [OVERLAPPING].
>> [OVERLAPPING] IS VERY SPECIFIC.
REMOVE AND REPLACE SHOULD BE THE EXACT SAME THING THAT IS THERE AS GOING BACK IN.
IF YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT, THEN IT'S A DIFFERENT PROCESS IN MY MIND.
NOW, YOU'RE ASKING FOR SOMETHING TOTALLY NEW.
>> IF THE DEFINITION IN, I GUESS, THE LDC SAYS, REMOVE AND REPLACE MEANS REPLACE IN KIND, THEN I THINK WE'RE COVERED, AND YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE HOMEOWNER, ALTHOUGH I'M SURE IT WOULD BE A HARDSHIP FOR THEM.
BUT IF IT'S NOT CLEAR, THEN I THINK, AND I GET THIS ONE IS DONE, BUT I'M LIKE, HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD WITH IT AND FIX IN THE FUTURE?
>> THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, KELLY.
>> YES. I'VE BEEN BY TO LOOK AT THIS FENCE.
REMOVE AND REPLACE, WE DID ASK FOR ADDITIONAL DETAILS THAT INDICATED IT WOULD BE A WOODEN FENCE AT A HEIGHT THAT IS PERMISSIBLE.
WE ALSO REQUESTED FOR THE FINISH OF THAT WOODEN FENCE.
IT IS A WOODEN FENCE, AT THE CORRECT HEIGHT, THAT WILL BE PAINTED WHITE.
IT IS ALL COMPLETELY COMPLIANT.
NOW, THE DESIGN OF THAT FENCE, THE AESTHETIC OF IT IS NOT SOMETHING COVERED AT ALL, IT IS THE MATERIAL AND THE HEIGHT THAT IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
IT IS CONSISTENT WITH ALL PARAMETERS.
>> BUT WHY CAN'T THE AESTHETIC THEN BE COVERED?
>> IT IS NOT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A SUBJECTIVE TERM, SOMETHING THAT SALLY USED TO SAY FREQUENTLY, WE ARE NOT THE ARBITERS OF GOOD TASTE, WE ARE HERE TO ENFORCE WHAT IS ON THE RECORD, WHICH IS MATERIAL AND ZONING REGULATIONS, AND THAT IS ALL.
>> THAT'S THE HONEYMOON COTTAGE.
>> THEY TOOK OUT THE PICKET AND THEN THEY PUT IN?
>> ONE BY FOURS, WITH A BIG BARN DOOR HINGE.
THAT NOWHERE ON THE PERMIT DID IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PAVERS?
>> NO. THAT IS SOMETHING FROM A CODE ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE.
WE CAN ASK THEM TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT. YES.
>> WELL, I THINK AT BARE MINIMUM, WE NEED TO DO THAT.
>> BUT I MEAN, DON'T WE JUST GO RIGHT TO WHAT IT SAYS, THAT WOULD BE AN AFTER-THE-FACT, AND THEY HAVE TO PAY A FINE FOR THE AFTER-THE-FACT APPROVAL, RIGHT, GUYS?
>> THERE'S VERY LITTLE GUIDANCE ON WHAT IS AN APPROVED PAVER, WHAT IS NOT APPROVED PAVER, WHETHER OR NOT THE COLOR IS ALLOWED OR NOT ALLOWED.
>> BUT THIS WOULD JUST BE FOR THE PERMITTING, FOR THE PROCESS THAT THEY DIDN'T?
>> THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE PROCESS.
IT WASN'T FULL DISCLOSURE, WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO.
>> I MENTIONED TO VERONICA THAT WHEN I SEE SOMETHING THAT'S UNCLEAR TO ME, USUALLY, I'LL PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL THE CONTACT.
I TRUST THAT PAST MIA DID HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO REMOVE AND REPLACE EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS.
BUT IN THE FUTURE, I WILL MAKE NOTE OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I HAVE IN MORE DETAIL, SO AFTER I'M DONE, THE 15 COA IS LIKE, OH, I CAN REMEMBER THAT I HAD THAT CONVERSATION.
>> JUST LIKE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT GETTING INFORMATION TO THE REALTORS, IT WOULDN'T HURT [NOISE] WHEN PEOPLE COME IN FOR A STAFF APPROVAL TO SAY REPLACE A FENCE OR TO DO WHATEVER.
AS PART OF YOUR BANTER WITH THEM, PLEASE BEAR IN MIND, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE BEING APPROVED FOR.
IF YOU DISCOVER OTHER THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU HAVE TO COME BACK FOR AN AMENDMENT OR AN ADDITIONAL BECAUSE PEOPLE SAY LIKE, WELL, I GOT APPROVED FOR THIS, I'M GOING TO DO A FEW MORE THINGS WHILE I HAVE THAT PERMIT OUT.
>> USUALLY THE STAFF COA JUST COME THROUGH THE PORTAL, THEY RARELY COME IN TO THE OFFICE.
BUT I COULD CALL THEM AND CLARIFY.
>> COULD THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES FURTHER CLARIFY FENCING?
>> PICK SOME OF THIS UP, SO IT IS CLEAR IN THE GUIDELINES.
[01:50:06]
>> THAT'S A COMMENT FOR YOU, MIA, TO ADD TO THE GUIDELINES.
BUT ARE WE FOLLOWING UP FROM HERE WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT?
>> UNLESS THERE'S A CODE COMPLAINT THAT'S ISSUED AGAINST THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY, THERE'S NOTHING MOVING FORWARD.
>> SOMEONE WOULD NEED TO ISSUE A COMPLAINT.
>> AS THE HDC, WE CAN'T REQUEST THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT?
>> AN INDIVIDUAL MEMBER CAN, BUT THEY NEED TO HAVE A POINT OF CONTACT, THAT IS THAT PERSON THAT THEY'RE FOLLOWING UP WITH THAT ISSUED THE COMPLAINT.
>> MAYBE THEY DID EXACTLY WHAT THEY COULD AFFORD TO DO.
>> I WOULD LIKE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT TO VISIT THEM AND, WITH A PERMIT AND SAY THIS WASN'T PERMITTED.
>> NOW, TO BE CLEAR, THE FENCE WAS PERMITTED.
>> MAY OR MAY NOT NEED A PERMIT IF THEY WERE IN EXCESS OF 150 SQUARE FEET, IT WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT.
IF IT IS LESS THAN THAT, IT WOULD NOT.
>> IT'S THE ENTIRE DRIVEWAY, SO IT'S A SINGLE-CAR DRIVEWAY, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE MORE THAN 150 SQUARE FEET.
THE FEE SECTION OF THAT PERMIT DOES SAY ZONING REVIEW FEE, FENCE PLUS A CONCRETE PAD, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONCRETE PAD IS.
I MEAN, UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING IN THE BACK OR WHATEVER.
>> ON THAT ONE, WE'RE JUST REQUESTING THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT PAY THEM A VISIT IF IN FACT, AFTER WE FIND OUT THE DIMENSIONS, AND IF IT IN FACT IS A VIOLATION, I WILL BE THE CONTACT.
>> THEN THE RECOURSE TO THAT IS THAT THEY WOULD REQUEST A ZONING PERMIT FOR THE PAVERS, AND THAT WOULD COME THROUGH AS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL, AND THE PERMIT WOULD BE ISSUED.
>> MAYBE I'M OPENING A CAN OF WORMS HERE AND I'M REALLY HUNGRY, BUT [LAUGHTER] I'M GOING TO SAY IT ANYWAY BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT I'M HEARING FROM VERONICA AND WHAT I WANT TO ASK KELLY IS IF WHAT THE BOARD IS ACTUALLY SAYING IS, HEY, WE'VE HAD SEVERAL FENCE PROJECTS THAT WE'RE NOT HAPPY WITH IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS THERE A MECHANISM WE CAN PUT IN PLACE WHERE NOW WE'RE GOING TO START REVIEWING FENCES? PEOPLE GOT TO PRESENT WHAT FENCE THEY'RE GOING TO TURN IN, WHAT FENCE THEY INTEND TO INSTALL, AND SHOW US WHERE THEY INTEND TO PUT IT, AND THAT WAY WE CAN LOOK AT IT.
>> LOOK AT IT AND ENCOUNTER, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PUT INTO EFFECT?
>> YOU WOULD LIKE THE BOARD TO REVIEW ALL FENCES?
>> WE WOULD NEED TO MODIFY THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO MOVE THAT MATRIX BOX FROM STAFF APPROVAL TO BOARD REVIEW.
>> HOW MUCH IS THAT GOING TO COST PEOPLE?
>> $250 TO HAVE THEIR FENCE APPROVED.
>> $75 TO HAVE THEIR FENCE APPROVED.
>> SEVENTY-FIVE NOW, AND THEN IF IT WENT TO AGC.
>> IT'D GO TO 250 PLUS SIX WEEKS.
>> NO, I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE THEIR FENCE.
YOU GOT TO HAVE SOME SELF-EXPRESSION SOMEWHERE IN THE WORLD.
IT'S BAD ENOUGH YOU LIVE WITH THE HDC.
>> BUT THIS IS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THERE SHOULD BE CERTAIN STANDARDS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
>> SHE CHOSE TO LIVE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
>> WELL, YOU GOT A TON OF THEM.
>> FENCES WERE ALWAYS SEEN AS A NON-PERMANENT ADDITION.
BECAUSE I REMEMBER, IN FACT, THE PROPERTY THAT WE LOOKED AT TONIGHT DOROTHEA'S OLD PLACE.
WE HAD A LOT OF DUST-UP ABOUT THAT WHEN TOM PUT IN THAT WAVY THING, AND THEN THERE WAS THE SQUARE.
I WAS LIKE IT WOULD LOOK LIKE A FENCE STORE.
THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT STYLES [LAUGHTER] CYCLES.
WHY ARE YOU SELLING FENCES? [LAUGHTER] BUT IT WAS SEEN AS A NON-PERMANENT ADDITION.
>> IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE IN ANY WAY.
WE DON'T APPROVE SPECIFIC LIGHT FIXTURES.
>> IT'S THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
>> I REMEMBER ANOTHER ONE RECENTLY WAS WHEN SOMEBODY USED BIRD HOUSES AS FINIALS ON TOP OF THEIR FENCE POSTS.
BUT AGAIN, THAT IS CONSISTENT.
THERE WAS NO REAL ISSUE WITH IT.
>> I KNOW IT LOOKED WEIRD TO SOME PEOPLE.
>> THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOME OF THE MOST RECENT MISHAPS.
SOME WERE NOT THE RIGHT HEIGHT,
[01:55:04]
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THEY GOT APPROVED, AND SOME WERE, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT BEING RIGHT FOR THE PROPERTY.WE SAY FREQUENTLY IN THESE MEETINGS THAT SOMETHING THEY WANT TO DO WITH THE HOUSE IS NOT RIGHT FOR THE PROPERTY.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WINDOWS OR GABLES OR WHATEVER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PORCHES, WE SAY THAT THESE THINGS ARE NOT RIGHT FOR THE PROPERTY.
WE COULDN'T DO THAT WITH FENCES?
>> YOU COULD, BUT KEEP IN MIND THE CONTEXT OF THAT FENCE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS AFFECTING THE ACTUAL INTEGRITY OF THE RESOURCE ITSELF IN ANY WAY.
>> TELL ME WHAT WE'RE DOING DIFFERENTLY TO KEEP FENCES LEGAL PER THE GUIDELINE.
>> PER THE FENCE OFF OF 10TH STREET IS LEGAL.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.
>> WE DON'T HAVE ALL OF THEM RECENTLY BEING LEGAL.
>> WELL, SO WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THAT?
>> IT IS LEGAL BECAUSE IT DOES MEET ALL ZONING REQUIREMENTS.
>> IS THIS THE TOO TALL FENCE, THE [INAUDIBLE]?
>> WHY IS IT LEGAL IF IT'S DIFFERENT FROM ALL THE OTHER HOUSES AROUND IT?
>> IT'S LEGAL IN THAT THE ZONING PARAMETERS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT STRUCTURE ALLOW FOR UP TO AN EIGHT-FOOT-TALL FENCE.
>> PART OF THE PROPERTY IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, PART OF IT'S NOT.
>> WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS ANOTHER PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW CONFUSING WE ARE TO THE COMMUNITY.
BECAUSE IT'S CONFUSING TO ME THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE WHOLE PICTURE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ZONING IS.
YOU DON'T KNOW THIS, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT, YOU HAVE TO COME HERE, AND PEOPLE DON'T.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIX.
WHAT'S THE GENERAL CONSENSUS ABOUT FENCES AND THE REVIEW?
>> MAKE IT HDC APPROVAL, THAT WOULD BE MY THOUGHT.
>> I THINK SOME THOUGHT BEHIND MAYBE A MINIMUM STANDARD.
SOMETHING THAT CAN JUST SHOOT AT THE LOWEST BAR EVERYONE'S GOT TO PASS, SO THAT WE COULD ALL AGREE ON.
>> WOULDN'T THAT BE THE ZONING CODE?
>> WELL, THAT'S THE GUIDELINES.
>> WE HAVE IT IN THE GUIDELINES.
WE SAY NO VINYL, WOOD IS PREFERRED, OR IRON.
>> IT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE WE PARK ON THE MINIMUM AESTHETIC, THAT THIS IS THE BASELINE LOOK THAT WE'RE GOING FOR.
>> I THINK THAT COMES RIGHT DOWN TO WHAT VERONICA IS SAYING, IT HAS TO COME THROUGH HDC APPROVAL BECAUSE THEN WE SEE A SKETCH OR A DRAWING AND PLANS FOR IT.
>> DO WE HAVE OTHER OPINIONS? I KNOW PAT DOES.
DOES ANYBODY ELSE SHARE PAT'S FEELINGS?
>> I UNDERSTAND PAT'S FEELINGS.
I DO THINK WE HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF THE MASSIVE GENTRIFICATION OF OUR TOWN, AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE MOVING IN, THEY CAN AFFORD A $250 PERMIT.
THAT MIGHT BE PART OF THEIR ENTIRE REBUILD.
I MEAN, THEY'RE PUTTING UP MILLION-DOLLAR ADUS LITERALLY.
I DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD BE OUR REASONING FOR NOT HAVING US APPROVE IT.
IF WE WANT TO MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK NICE, THEN WE WOULD WANT TO SEE IT.
>> I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE CONTROLLING EVERYBODY'S LIFE.
>> WELL, I DON'T THINK WE'RE CONTROLLING IT.
WE'RE JUST OFFERING A GUIDELINE.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. IF A PERMIT COMES THROUGH AND THEY WANT TO REPLACE THE FENCE IN KIND, AND THEY'RE GOING BACK TO THE EXACT SAME MATERIAL.
EXACT SAME STYLE, EXACT SAME FINISH.
>> EXCEPT IF IT'S A CHAIN LINK.
>> BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY TOLD YOU THEY WERE DOING HERE.
THEY JUST SAID REMOVE AND REPLACE THEM, AND THAT'S THE ERROR.
>> [OVERLAPPING] PHONE CONVERSATION THAT HAPPENED WHERE THEY DID.
>> THE GUIDELINES HAS A SECTION ON FENCES AND WALLS, AND IT DOES DESCRIBE IT.
IF THEY JUST FOLLOWED THE PICKET LIKE IN THIS INSTANCE, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE JUST FOLLOWED THE PICKET FENCE DETAIL, THIS WOULDN'T EVEN BE A CONVERSATION TONIGHT.
>> MAYBE WHOEVER IS REVIEWING, THE STAFF THAT'S REVIEWING THE ELECTRONIC THINGS THAT COME ACROSS, BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WHEN I WAS FILLING OUT FOR MY REPAIR AT MY HOUSE, I'M SITTING THERE LIKE, OKAY WHAT DO I HAVE TO WRITE SO THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M DOING THAT THERE'S NO QUESTIONS, AND I HAVE THE DIMENSION OF THE MATERIAL THAT WE'RE USING.
[02:00:03]
IT'S THE SAME MATERIAL THAT WE'RE REPLACING.WE'RE DOING ABOUT 24 BOARDS, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.
IF THEY'RE NOT SPECIFIC, MAYBE THAT GETS BOUNCED OUT, AND IT GOES BACK TO THEM.
>> THERE'S AN OPTION TO REQUIRE RESUBMIT IF I DON'T [INAUDIBLE] AS COMPLETE.
WHEN I GET TO THAT POINT WHERE I'M CONFUSED OR IT'S NOT CLEAR, I'LL EITHER REQUIRE RESUBMIT AND PUT A NOTE IN THERE OR I'LL MAKE A CALL AND APPROVE OR DENY OR [INAUDIBLE].
>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD START ANYWAY UNTIL IT'S REQUALIFIED.
>> WE'RE A RESOURCE. USE ME AS A RESOURCE.
>> I WILL. IF IT'S OKAY WITH THE BOARD AND I WILL BE VERY DILIGENT AND STRICT ON FENCES AND MAKING SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION AND CALLING ONE OF YOU GUYS, IF I GET CONFUSED OR NEED HELP, THEN I WOULD PERSONALLY PREFER TO KEEP IT AS A STAFF APPROVAL, JUST FROM A CUSTOMER SERVICE PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE IF SOMEONE COMES IN AND THEY WANT TO HAVE A FENCE OR REPLACE THEIR FENCE, AND I SAY IT'S ALSO GOING TO BE $250 AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOUR WEEKS TO BE IN FRONT OF A BOARD WHO MIGHT TELL YOU NO.
THAT MAKES MY LIFE A LITTLE HARD, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT MAKING MY LIFE EASY.
BUT IF I CAN BE MORE DILIGENT AND PROMISE YOU GUYS TODAY THAT I WON'T LET THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN AGAIN, AND IT'S USING MORE OF THE RESOURCES.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT FENCE. IT'S PERFECTLY LAWFUL
>> I THINK WE ALL HEARD THAT LOUD AND CLEAR.
I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS. SOME OF US LIKE IT.
>> IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS.
>> WE GOT YOU. NOBODY WAS CRITICIZING. [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT WAS PROBABLY JUST THE SURPRISE FACTOR.
>> OR MAKING JUDGMENT OF ANYBODY ON STAFF.
WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS IF WE'RE GOING TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR HISTORY, EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR HISTORY.
>> NOW YOU DON'T KNOW IF SOME TACKY PERSON DIDN'T LIVE IN THAT HOUSE BEFORE WITH A TACKY FENCE.
>> YOU KNOW WHAT? IT DIDN'T MATTER HOW TACKY THEY WERE.
THEY WERE PART OF OUR HISTORY.
>> THEY MAY HAVE A TACKY FENCE.
>> I THINK MIA'S PLAN IS FINE.
NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS THE WINDOW WORKSHOP FLIER.
>> YES, SO WE'RE HAVING OUR WINDOW HISTORIC WINDOW PRESERVATION WORKSHOP HERE TOMORROW.
WE HAVE FULL CAPACITY ATTENDANCE, SO IT WILL BE 16 PEOPLE HERE IN THE CHAMBERS TOMORROW.
PRESERVING WINDOWS AUSTIN HISTORICAL IS TRAVELING UP FROM ORLANDO TO BE HERE WITH US, AND THEY'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH A WHOLE DAY OF DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES, RESTORING HANDS-ON, LEARNING HOW TO DEAL WITH HISTORIC WINDOWS, AND HERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FLOOR COVERED UP.
WE'RE PROVIDING A LITTLE BREAKFAST OR PROVIDING LUNCH.
THEN, IF WE HAVE A LITTLE TIME EXTRA, I PROPOSED A LITTLE KIND OF SOMEWHERE TO THE WINDOW WALKABOUT WE DID, WHERE THE AUSTIN HISTORICAL PEOPLE COULD SHOW US SOME PRESERVATION PROJECTS THEY HAVE GOING ON IN ACTION AND OTHER THINGS AROUND DOWNTOWN, BUT I'M REALLY EXCITED FOR THAT.
>> COOL. THAT'S GREAT THAT YOU HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE COMING. EXCELLENT.
>> I THINK THE OTHER TIME WE DID THIS, WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT MANY PARTICIPANTS.
BUT THIS YEAR, I MADE THIS REALLY COOL FLYER, AND I THINK IT CAUGHT PEOPLE'S ATTENTION. [LAUGHTER]
>> YEAH, THAT DID IT. THAT WAS IT, MIA.
>> OTHER THAN THAT, THE PRESERVATION ON MAIN STREET CONFERENCE.
I HAD A MEETING WITH THAT PLANNING TEAM TODAY, AND I CONTINUE TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT.
SOME OF MY RESPONSIBILITIES INCLUDE A VOLUNTEER SCHEDULE.
MAKING SURE WE HAVE DIFFERENT VOLUNTEERS FOR THE WHOLE PROGRAMMING AND MAKING SURE WE HAVE PEOPLE YOU'RE HANDING OUT FLIERS, POINTING PEOPLE WAYS, CLEANING UP, SETTING UP, ALL THAT GOOD STUFF.
>> WHAT ARE THE DATES FOR THAT AGAIN?
>> JULY 13TH TO THE 18TH IS LIKE THAT WEEK.
I THINK THE MAIN PROGRAMMING IS TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, BUT THERE'S SOME ACTIVITIES ON MONDAY AND FRIDAY THAT WEEK.
ON THURSDAY, I THINK IT'S THAT THURSDAY, THEY HAVE A GIVE BACK SESSION WHERE VOLUNTEERS WILL DO A VOLUNTEER EVENT, AND USUALLY THE PRESERVATION FOCUS, OF COURSE.
THIS YEAR IT'S GOING TO BE AT THE PECK HIGH SCHOOL, AND THE VOLUNTEERS ARE GOING TO BE TAKING BRAND NEW PHOTOS FOR ME, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE DRAWING FLOOR PLANS AND OTHER ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS FOR ME TO THEN INCLUDE IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION.
I'LL BE GIVING LIKE AN INTRODUCTION, MAYBE A FIVE-MINUTE SPIEL ABOUT THE BUILDING, AND THEN DIRECTING PEOPLE WHERE TO GO.
I MADE THIS FLYER THAT'S ON THE RIGHT THAT I PLAN TO BRING TO THE PECK ALUMNI ASSOCIATION MEETING THIS MONTH.
I WANT TO INVITE ALUMNI AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO HAVE A CONNECTION TO PECK HIGH SCHOOL TO COME JOIN THE VOLUNTEERS.
MAYBE WE'RE ALL WALKING AROUND TOGETHER, TALKING ABOUT THE BUILDING, AND JUST INFORMATION SHARING AND CELEBRATING ITS IMPORTANT HERITAGE.
THAT'S MY FLYER TO THAT. I HOPE I CATCH PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.
>> JUST ANOTHER REMINDER, OUR NEXT MEETING WILL BE ON JUNE 26TH, WHICH IS THE FOURTH THURSDAY [INAUDIBLE].
[02:05:01]
>> IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? THIS IS OUR PUBLIC COMMENT TIME.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS? MEETING ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.