[1. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:11] >>> GOOD MORNING. WELCOME TO OUR MAY 15TH SPECIAL COMMISSION. TODAY WE'LL BE LOOKING TO INTERVIEW AND PERHAPS SELECT A NEW CITY ATTORNEY. I SEE BOTH OF OUR CANDIDATES IN THE AUDIENCE. [3. RECESS THE SPECIAL MEETING] WELCOME. >> MAYOR ANTUN. >> HERE. >> VICE MAYOR AYSCUE. >> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER MIN SHOE. >> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER PARKWAY TER. >> WE WILL RECESS THE SPECIAL MEETING SO WE CAN HAVE ONE-ON-ONE INTIEVS WITH THE ATTORNEYS. >> I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO RECESS. >> MOTION ON THE FLOOR. >> DO I HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND. >> MOTION AND SECOND. ANY COMMISSIONER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, MS. BEST, PLEASE CALL THE RULE. >> COMMISSIONER TUTEN. >> YES. >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER. >> YES. >> COMMISSIONER MIN SHOE. >> YES. >> WE WILL ADJOURN, AND WE WILL RETURN [4. REOPEN THE SPECIAL MEETING] >>> ALL RIGHT, FOLKS. WE'VE JUST HAD OUR ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEWS. WE WILL REOPEN THE SPECIAL MEETING. I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO DO SO, PLEASE. >> SO MOVED. >> MOTION ON THE FLOOR AND SECONDED. ANY COMMISSIONER DISCUSSION BEFORE WE PROCEED? SEEING NONE, MS. BEST, PLEASE CALL THE ROLE. >> WHO MADE THE SECOND? >> I DID. >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER. >> THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONER MINSHEW.YES. [5.1 CITY ATTORNEY FINALIST PANEL INTERVIEWS interview City Attorney finalists in City Hall chambers. The City Commission will Time 10:45am-10:50am 10:50am-11:10am 11:10am-11:30am 11:30am-11:50am Name Interview Procedures - Human Resources Director Matson Prince Rogers Swiecinska] >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER, YES. >> VICE CHAIR AYSCUE. >> YES. >> WE'RE ON TO ITEM 5.1, OUR CITY ATTORNEY FINALIST PANEL INTERVIEWS. AFTER OUR INDIVIDUAL INTERVIEWS WE WILL NOW AS A PANEL BE ABLE TO INTERVIEW THE CANDIDATES THAT THE PUBLIC IS ABLE TO HEAR, SOME OF WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN GOING ON IN THE PRIVATE DISCUSSIONS. WE'LL HAVE OUR HR DIRECTOR, DENNIS MATSON COME IN WITH A LITTLE BIT OF AN OVERVIEW FOR WHAT WE NEED TO DO WITH OUR PROCEDURES. >> GOOD MORNING. I'M DENISE MATSON, HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR. EACH CANDIDATE WILL COME IN FOR YOU TO INDIVIDUALLY INTERVIEW THEM AS A WHOLE. EACH CANDIDATE CAN PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF THEIR EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE POSITION AND, OF COURSE, EACH OF YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS OF EACH CANDIDATE. AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEWS, THE COMMISSION WILL HAVE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CANDIDATES AND HOPEFULLY MAKE A DECISION. UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OF ME, THAT'S THE PROCESS. >> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. MATSON? >> NOPE. >> SEEING NONE, THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> SO WE WILL MOVE ON IN OUR FIRST INTERVIEW CANDIDATE, THAT WILL BE MS. TERESA PRINCE, RIGHT ON CUE. YES. FOR POINT OF ORDER, DO WE HAVE OUR OTHER CANDIDATE PRESENT DURING THIS INTERVIEW? >> OH. WELL, SINCE YOUR ATTORNEY IS NOT HERE, YOU UNDER THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THEM AVAILABLE WE CAN DECIDE TO GO UPSTAIRS. THAT'S MY OPINION. BUT IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE. >> IT IS A PUBLIC MEETING, SO THEY CAN STAY. YOU CAN'T PROHIBIT THEM. BUT SOME AS A COURTESY PREFER TO STEP OUT. >> OKAY. SO IT'S UP TO YOU, IF YOU'D LIKE TO STAY. ALL RIGHT. >> AND YOU GO UP THE STAIRS THAT ROOM AT THE TOP IS PROBABLY -- >> THE CONFERENCE ROOM UPSTAIRS IS FINE. >> HAS THE SNACKS. >> WE'LL SEE YOU IN ABOUT 20 OR 30 MINUTES. THANK YOU, MS. ROGERS. SO WE WILL BEGIN, MS. PRINCE, PLEASE COME TO THE PODIUM, AND I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS FROM MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. >> DO WE WANT -- >> QUESTIONS FOR MS. PRINCE. >> DOES SHE HAVE -- >> WELL, I'M GOING TO AGAIN STEP OUTSIDE MY ROLE AS AN APPLICANT AND ADVISE THAT I SHOULD PROBABLY ANNOUNCE WHO I AM, TERESA PRINCE, 303 CENTER STREET, FOR THE RECORD, AND I'M THE APPLICANT. I DID MISS -- WAS THERE ANY INTRO INTO HOW WE WERE GOING TO HANDLE THIS? I THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN OPENING OF THE PROCESS. >> YOU CAN PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF YOUR EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, QUALIFICATIONS AND THEN THE COMMISSION CAN ASK QUESTIONS. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. SO FOR THE RECORD AN OVERVIEW. BUT, YES, WHAT IS THE PLEASURE OF THE COMMISSION? >> SO WE'LL HAVE YOUR OVERVIEW, AND THEN WE'LL TAKE SOME QUESTIONS. >> OKAY. SO I'VE PRACTICED BEFORE ALL OF YOU MANY TIMES, SOME OF YOU MORE THAN OTHERS ON VARIOUS DIFFERENT BOARDS IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT ROLES. SO AS I PREPARED FOR TODAY, I WANTED TO THINK ABOUT WHY I WANTED THIS ROLE. IT STEMS BACK TO WHEN I WAS 8 YEARS OF AGE IN THE BACK SEAT OF MY PARENT'S CADILLAC AND ANNOUNCED I AM GOING TO BE AN ATTORNEY. AND FROM THEM GOING FORWARD, IN MY LEGAL CAREER, IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WORKED FOR LAW FIRMS. IN COLLEGE I WORKED AS AN OPERATIONAL PART-TIME STUDENT AT THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR THE TUNE OF ABOUT $4 AN HOUR. AND FOCUSEDIN COLLEGE ON THE AREAS OF LAW THAT ARE TAUGHT IN [00:05:05] COLLEGE, THAT HANDLE LOCAL GOVERNMENT. THEN ONCE I GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE AND STARTED MY LEGAL CAREER AS AN ASSISTANT, I CAME TO THE CITY OF FERNANDINA, MOVED HERE, AND YOU WERE ADVERTISING FOR YOUR FIRST LEGAL ASSISTANT. AND I HAD MANY JOB OPPORTUNITIES FORTUNATELY IN THIS SMALL COMMUNITY, NET JETS, DAVE LEERY AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT, THERE WERE VARIOUS ROLES THAT WERE HIRING THAT WERE ATTRACTIVE. BUT I WANTED TO BE CONNECTED WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND WORKING WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT. SO I APPLIED FOR AND ACCEPTED THE POSITION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AS LEGAL ASSISTANT. I WAS HIRED BY JUDGE PULL. THE COMMISSION THEN DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A FULL-TIME CITY ATTORNEY, AND MY LAW PARTNER, JEFF THOMAS, WAS IN THE INTERIM WHILE YOU SEARCHED FOR YOUR FULL TIME. THEN I WORKED FOR DEBRA BRACKA. I HAD THE INTERESTING AND UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE OF BEING IN THE OFFICE, ESTABLISHING THE OFFICE AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT SHE FELT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY AND WHY THEY NEEDED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. AND THEN ONCE I BENT TO LAW SCHOOL, I FOCUSED ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT MATTERS AND CLASSES AND LAND USE ISSUES IN MY COURSE WORK, AND IN MY SUMMERS, GENERALLY YOU CLERK AT LAW FIRMS. MY FIRST SUMMER I CLERKED WITH A LAW FIRM THAT WAS HIRED AS OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO REPRESENT A COMMISSION THAT WAS HANDLING A VERY LARGE PROJECT THAT WAS GOING TO REQUIRE REZONING, AMENDMENT, AND THE COMMISSION WAS NOT GOING TO APPROVE IT BASED ON THEIR CODE, AND THEY HIRED AN OUTSIDE LAW FIRM TO TAKE THEM THROUGH THAT PROCESS. AND AS -- YOU KNOW, AS A LAW STUDENT, I WORKED FOR THAT FIRM. AND THEN THE SECOND SUMMER I WORKED WITH JEFF THOMAS' LAW FIRM. I HAD OBVIOUSLY ALREADY WORKED WITH HIM WHEN HE WAS THE INTERIM CITY ATTORNEY, AND THAT'S HOW I KNEW TO APPLY, AND I KNEW I WANTED TO BE IN FERNANDINA BEACH AND WORK WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT. AND THEN ONCE I GRADUATED FROM LAW SCHOOL, BECAUSE WHEN I WAS HERE AS YOUR LEGAL ASSISTANT, WE -- THIS, THE COMMISSION AT THAT TIME AND THE STAFF AT THAT TIME WENT OUT FOR GENERAL OBLIGATION BOND TO PURCHASE THE GREENWAY WHICH HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, A JEWEL OF THIS CITY. THAT COMMISSION ADOPTED ITS FIRST SHORT-TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE WHILE I WAS HERE AT LEGAL ASSISTANT AND ALSO ADOPTED A TREE ORDINANCE. AND IT WAS THAT EXPERIENCE THAT MADE ME SEEK OUT A LAW FIRM THAT WORKED WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT, AND I WENT WITH NEIGHBORS, GETLIN AND NICKERSON IN TAMPA, FLORIDA. I SOUGHT THEM OUT. AND THANKS TO THE CITY, I WAS AN ATTRACT REFRIGERATOR CANDIDATE TO THEM BECAUSE I HAD WORKED ON A GENERAL OBLIGATION BOND. I'M SURE NOT MANY NEW LAWYERS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS, AND I'D ALSO BEEN WITH THE CITY DURING THE WATER AND SEWER BONDS AS WELL. NOT AS EXCELLENT OF A MEMORY, BUT, STILL. SO I WORKED IN TAMPA IN A GREAT POSITION, LOCAL GOVERNMENT. NEIGHBORS GATLIN AND NICKERSON IS A STATEWIDE FIRM THAT ONLY HANDLES LOCAL GOVERNMENT MATTERS PRIMARILY AND PUBLIC FINANCE. SO I WORKED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WITH VARIOUS CITIES AND COUNTIES ISSUING PUBLIC DEBT AND DOING BANK LOANS AND STUFF TO FINANCE THEIR PROJECTS. WHILE I WAS WITH NEIGHBORS GATLIN AND NICKERSON, I WAS ALSO APPOINTED TO TWO GOVERNMENTAL BOARDS THAT WERE STATUTORY CREATED. AND I ADVISED THEM ON ALL THEIR LEGAL ISSUES. SO I WAS THE ASSOCIATE FROM THE FIRM APPOINTED TO TWO GOVERNMENTAL BOARDS. BUT MY HEART WAS HERE. I'D BEEN HERE FOR FOUR YEARS, AND I JUST WANTED TO GET BACK TO NORTHEAST FLORIDA AND SPECIFICALLY FERNANDINA BEACH. AND AT THAT TIME JEFF THOMAS WAS LOOKING FOR A LAW PARTNER. SO I JOINED HIS FIRM BECAUSE OF HIS CONNECTION WITH THIS CITY AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOW MUCH HIS PRACTICE WAS RELATED TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT. ONCE I JOINED HIM IN 2012, I WAS ON THE CITY ATTORNEY'S ROTATION LIST, SO I DID FILL IN FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY WHEN THE CITY ATTORNEY COULDN'T REPRESENT YOU, WAS ON VACATION, NEEDED TO REPRESENT STAFF. SO FOR THE FOUR YEARS I WAS ON THAT ROTATION LIST, I REPRESENTED BOARDS AND COMMISSION FOR THE CITY. IN 2016, I WAS ASKED TO CONSIDER BEING THE VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD ATTORNEY FOR NASSAU COUNTY WHICH HANDLES THE TAXATION MATTERS. AND ONCE I DID THAT, I HAD TO COME OFF YOUR CITY ROTATION LIST. SO THAT'S WHY I HAVE NOT BEEN ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO BE ON YOUR ROTATION LIST TO COVER FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. SO I'VE BEEN DOING THAT ROLE SINCE 2016. AND THEN MY CLIENTS, I THINK I'M UNIQUELY SITUATED BECAUSE I DO -- I HAVE REPRESENTED LAND OWNERS THAT HAVE PROJECTS APPROVED BY THE CITY. I'VE [00:10:04] REPRESENTED MANY CITIZENS GROUPS THAT HAVE WANTED TO CHALLENGE VARIOUS PROJECTS, AND I'VE REPRESENTED HOAS AND CONDOS THAT ARE VERY MUCH -- VERY SIMILAR TO YOU, THEY'RE AN ELECTED BODY, THEY HAVE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY. THEY HAVE OWNERS THAT THEY HAVE TO LISTEN TO, JUST LIKE YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOUR CITIZENRY, AND THEY STILL HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY. SO I THINK WITH ALL MY EXPERIENCE FROM BOTH SIDES OF WORKING IN GOVERNMENT, COMING BEFORE YOU AS AN APPLICANT, REPRESENTING VERY DIFFERENT INTERESTS MAKES ME UNIQUELY QUALIFIED TO HANDLE THIS AND GET YOU WHERE YOU NEED TO GO IN A LEGAL AND ETHICAL WAY, AND MY OPINIONS WILL ALWAYS BE FOCUSED ON WHAT THE LAW IS, NOT WHAT'S POPULAR, AND NOT NECESSARILY WHAT YOU THINK YOU WANT TO DO. I HAVE TO ADVISE YOU ON WHETHER OR NOT IT'S LEGAL, AND THEN YOU MAKE THE DECISION. YOU SET POLICY, YOU DIRECT US WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GO, AND IT'S MY JOB, CLERK'S JOB, THE CITY MANAGER'S JOB TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE DOING IT LEGALLY AND ETHICALLY. MY JOB, OF COURSE, IS LEGAL. SO THAT'S ABOUT ME. AND I WENT THROUGH THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I FELT LIKE YOU ALREADY KNEW ME. SO I WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW WHY I WANTED TO BE HERE TODAY. >> THANK YOU, MS. PRINCE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. >> OF COURSE. I'LL TAKE COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS NOW. DOES ANYBODY WANT TO START US OFF? >> SURE. >> COMMISSIONER TUTEN. >> I ASKED YOU THIS EARLIER, BUT I'LL ASK IT AGAIN HERE IN THIS FORMAT. THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE REPRESENTED CLIENTS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION IN MATTERS RELATED TO THE CITY, HOW WILL YOU NAVIGATE THAT PAST CLIMATE AND THE FLORIDA BAR'S, YOU KNOW, RULES FOR PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT, CHAPTER 4 ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SUBSTANTIAL -- SUBSTANTIALLY RELATED MATTERS AND PREVIOUS CLIENTS? MY CONCERN IS POTENTIAL RECUSAL AND HOW DOES THE CITY -- HOW DOES THE CITY MANAGE THE ABSENCE OF THE CITY'S ATTORNEY? >> UH-HUH. SO I HAVE BEEN KEEPING A LIST SINCE I DECIDED TO APPLY OF WHAT COULD BE POTENTIAL CONFLICTS. I WOULD NEED TO OBTAIN A WAIVER. I'LL HAVE TO ANNOUNCE ON THE RECORD THAT I HAVE RECEIVED THE WAIVER, AND THEN I WOULD ADVISE THAT WE USE SOMEONE ON THE ROTATION LIST, PROBABLY HARRIS POOLE TO HANDLE THOSE MATTERS IF I HAD A CONFLICT WITH THAT CLIENT. THERE HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT OPINIONS WHEN IT'S GONE UP ON ETHICAL COMPLAINTS AGAINST CITY ATTORNEYS OR COUNTY ATTORNEYS. I'M ADVISING YOU, SO I'M NOT ACTUALLY TAKING THE ACTION, THE ADVERSE ACTION AGAINST THE CLIENT. BUT I THINK OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION, I WOULD NEED TO ADVISE YOU THAT I HAVE THE CONFLICT, AND WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER -- I WOULD ADVISE WE HAVE ANOTHER ATTORNEY FOR THAT PARTICULAR MATTER. EVEN IF I CAN THE WAIVER WHICH I HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN WITH MY CLIENTS ABOUT OBTAINING WAIVERS. AND SO WE WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS IT. >> ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONER TUTEN? >> I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS. KEEP GOING? OKAY. ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS WE HAVE A VERY ACTIVE AND ENGAGED COMMUNITY. AS CITY ATTORNEY, HOW WOULD YOU HELP FOSTER AN OPEN AND TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT? >> THE CITY ATTORNEY'S ROLE CAN SOMETIMES BE MISUNDERSTOOD BY THE CITIZENS. YOU KNOW, I AM YOUR ATTORNEY. SO I HAVE TO ADVISE YOU, AND OFTEN I SEE IT IN THE VARIOUS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS I'VE WORKED WITH, ANY ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS MAY WANT ME TO SPEAK TO A CITIZEN, AND I WOULD CERTAINLY DO THAT AND EXPLAIN, YOU KNOW, AS I UNDERSTAND THE LAW, BUT I -- YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO HAVE AN OPEN-DOOR POLICY TO EACH OF YOU, AND THAT'S WHAT MY OBLIGATION IS. AND THAT IS TRANSPARENT AND THEN RENDER MY LEGAL ADVICE ON THE RECORD AS WELL. >> AND MY LAST QUESTION IS -- RELATES TO PRESSURES WE AND MANY OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE ARE FACING WITH BURT HARRISON, LOCAL IN PARTICULAR. WHAT IS YOUR -- WHAT ARE YOUR BRIEF THOUGHTS ON EITHER ONE OF THEM AND ISSUES WE FACE, AND HOW WOULD YOU HELP US OR PROTECT OUR INTERESTS OR HELP US NAVIGATE THOSE LAWS, EITHER ONE, BOTH? >> WELL, FORTUNATE FOR ME I CAN ADVISE YOU ON THE LAW AND WHERE THE LAW IS GOING AND WHERE I SEE THE LEGISLATURE TAKING IT. YOU KNOW, THE BILL JUST WENT UP TO THE GOVERNOR ON THE LOCAL AND THE AMENDMENTS TO LOCAL THAT ARE GOING TO IMPACT US. IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO THE FIVE OF YOU. YOU KNOW, I CAN EXPLAIN WHAT WE NEED, BUT THE FIVE OF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE IF WE'RE GOING TO LOBBY BECAUSE THESE AREN'T LAWS YOU HAVE ANY [00:15:02] CONTROL OVER. SO I ADVISE -- YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO LOBBY AND PARTICIPATE WITH THE CITIES, HAVE YOUR OWN LOBBYIST TRY AND PUT OUR INTERESTS FORWARD WITH THE STATE OFFICIALS WITH THESE LAWS THAT ARE BEING ADOPTED, LIKE MANY JURISDICTIONS DO. BUT I HAVE TO STAY ABREAST OF THE LAW, ADVISE YOU OF THE PIT DLL FALLS. BUT IT'S UP TO YOU TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT TO DO ANYTHING THAT MIGHT HELP SWAY THE DECISIONS OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE. AND THEN LOOKING AT IT WHICH MANY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO WHEN LIVE LOCAL FIRST CAME OUT AND THE MOST RECENT FIRST CHANGES TO THE STATUTE, LOOKING AT WHERE YOU ARE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO MAKE CHANGES BECAUSE I'VE SAT IN THESE MEETINGS, AND I KNOW OUR RESIDENTS COME UP, AND THEY WANT YOU TO DO THINGS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO. SO EXPLAINING ON THE RECORD THAT THIS COMMISSION CAN'T MAKE THAT DECISION, BUT THEN ALSO OFFERING NEW WAYS THAT YOU CAN MAKE CHANGES. AND THEN ADVISING YOU ON ANY OF THE CHANGES THAT YOU MAY WANT TO MAKE WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF THE STATE LAW AND WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, IS IT -- ARE WE ON THE EDGE, YOU KNOW, COULD WE POTENTIALLY GET SUED OR NOT, AND WHAT WOULD BE THE CONSEQUENCES IF WE TOOK THE ACTION WHEN WE HAVE A REMEDY, CAN WE GET OUT OF IT. SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE -- I NEED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE LAWS, ADVISE YOU OF THOSE LAWS. BUT IT'S UP TO THE FIVE OF YOU TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT IF YOU WANT TO AS A COMMISSION LOBBY OUR STATE LEGISLATURE THAT MAKES THOSE LAWS. >> THANK YOU. >> ANY FURTHER COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> FIRST OF ALL, THANKS, MS. PRINCE FOR YOUR APPLICATION AND WAITING FOR AS LONG AS YOU WAITED TO GET HERE. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. CAN WE TALK FOR A SECOND ABOUT -- SO THERE ARE FIVE OF US, AND WE'RE ALL PROBABLY GOING TO COME WITH SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT VIEWS AND PERSPECTIVES, AND I GUESS I'M TRYING TO THINK TO TALK ABOUT OR TO UNDERSTAND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO ADVISE US ON POTENTIALLY CONTROVERSIAL, YOU KNOW, POLICIES OR ORDINANCES? THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, I THINK THINGS CAN GET REALLY POLITICAL QUICKLY, AND SO WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN IT HOW DO YOU KIND OF WALK THAT LINE BETWEEN WHAT'S THE REAL -- WHAT'S THE ROLE OF A CITY ATTORNEY VERSUS GETTING TOO FAR INTO THE POLITICS OF THE PRESSURE OF WHATEVER THE PARTICULAR ISSUE IS? >> UH-HUH, RIGHT. THANK YOU, FIRST OF ALL, BECAUSE I APPRECIATE BEING HERE, I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR BEING AN APPLICANT, SO THANK YOU ALL OF YOU FOR DOING THAT. ANY CITY ATTORNEY, COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS TO SET ASIDE, YOU KNOW, THEIR OWN POLITICAL IDEAS OR WHATEVER IT IS. I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LAW AND ADVISE YOU. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT EVEN THE FULL COMMISSION NEEDS TO PASS AND WANTS TO PASS, AND THE ENTIRE CITIZENRY IS AGAINST IT, I JUST HAVE TO ADVISE YOU ON WHY LEGALLY YOU'RE OBLIGATED TO DO THIS. YOU'LL MAKE THE DECISION. I HAVE TO STAY OUT OF THE POLITICS OF IT. I HAVE TO ADVISE YOU ON THE LEGAL AND ETHICAL MEANS, KEEP YOU ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW, ADVISE YOU OF THE CONSEQUENCES IF YOU DECIDE TO -- YOU KNOW, IF EVERYBODY IS UP HERE SAYING I WANT YOU TO DO THIS TOO, AND I KEEP THE WORD LOCAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LIVING WITH RIGHT NOW, OR THE MOST RECENT HERITAGE TREE CONCERN ABOUT THE STATE, THE STATE LAW ABOUT TREE PROTECTION, OUR TREE BILL OF RIGHTS IS WHAT IT'S CALLED. YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO ADVISE YOU ON WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO, WHETHER IT'S POLITICALLY POPULAR, AND THEN IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO YOU. IT IS MY JOB AND EVERY CITY AND COUNTY ATTORNEY'S JOB TO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE POLITICS. THESE ARE THE CONSEQUENCES IF YOU MOVE FORWARD, HERE'S WHERE YOU COULD IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SOME CHANGES, WE COULD GO IN THIS DIRECTION. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OR, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE TRYING TO STEER US IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, I THINK YOU'VE GOT SOME LEGAL CHALLENGES, LIKE SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT PEOPLE GOT UP -- I FELT FOR THE LAST COMMISSION WHEN I WAS SITTING IN THE AUDIENCE, AND PEOPLE ARE, LIKE, LIVE LOCAL, LIVE LOCAL, YOU GOTTA DO THIS AND GOTTA DO THAT. THE BIOETHANOL PLANT, YOU GOTTA DO THIS, YOU GOTTA DO THAT. YOU'VE GOT TO DO WHAT'S LEGAL. YOU GET THAT ADVICE, AND YOU MAKE THE DECISION. AND IT'S NOT ALWAYS WHAT THE CITIZENS WANT, AND THEN WITH THE FIVE OF YOU, I MAY HAVE TO ADVISE YOU THAT JONG IT'S SLEEL OR ETHICAL FOR YOU TO DO THAT. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION IF YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD, AND I HAVE TO STAY OUT OF THE POLITICS. >> ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. >> ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW? >> I'M GOOD. >> I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION. I THINK OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SOME OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE IN DESPERATE NEED OF [00:20:10] CHANGING, DEFINING THAT ARE ARTICULATING WHAT IS MEANT. I THINK SOME OF IT IS SO AMBIGUOUS IS WHY WE'RE ALWAYS GETTING IN TROUBLE. HOW COMFORTABLE ARE YOU IN TACKLING THAT ISSUE? >> VERY COMFORTABLE. >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I'VE BEEN AROUND OFF AND ON FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS, AND THIS IS AN ONGOING THING THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO GET RESOLVED. AND IT NEEDS TO GET RESOLVED. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS HOW COMFORTABLE ARE YOU DIGGING INTO THAT? >> VERY COMFORTABLE. AND I HAVE -- I'VE WORKED WITH THE CITY, AND THE CITY'S CODE FOR A LONG TIME, AND I KNOW THE AREAS THAT I THINK NEED TO BE CLEARER. LET'S TAKE THE ROADWAY VARIANCE THAT WE HAD. YOU KNOW, THAT IS AN AREA, THAT SECTION NEEDS TO BE AMENDED, 100%. IT'S UNCLEAR. YOU KNOW, THE REQUIREMENT OF THE VOTE, WHAT STRDZ ARE GOING TO APPLY TO A ROADWAY VARIANCE BECAUSE THE VARIANCE STANDARDS DON'T EVEN REALLY COME INTO PLAY, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO APPLY IN ORDER TO APPROVE IT. SO I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. AND THAT'S WHERE I SHINE. IF THAT'S ONE OF MY DOWN FALLS IS I LIKE TO GET INTO THOSE DETAILS. I LIKE TO GET MIRED INTO THAT. AND I'VE ACTUALLY UTILIZED THIS CODE, AND I KNOW THE PITFALLS AND THE DEFINITIONS THAT ARE MISSING. AND IN THE COUNTY'S CODE AS WELL. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION, YOU HAVE TO KIND OF EXTRAPOLATE AND COME UP WITH, WELL, YOU KNOW, DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS THE INTENT. SO DOI THINK IT NEEDS AN OVERHAUL. AND AS A USER OF THE CODE, I THINK I'M AGAIN UNIQUELY QUALIFIED TO DO IT, AND I ENJOY DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT. LASTLY, WHEN WE WERE DOING THE TREE ORDINANCE WHEN I WAS WORKING WITH JEFF THOMASETTI, WHEN THE TREE ORDERRIANS WAS ADOPTED, AND I JUST WAS IN LAW SCHOOL, BUT WHAT WE DID IS SIT DOWN AND TRY TO DO AN APPLICATION. YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE TO APPLY FOR -- TO BUILD A HOUSE WITH THIS TREE ORDINANCE IN PLACE AND ACTUALLY TAKE IT THROUGH THE PROCESS TO SEE WHERE THE PITFALLS ARE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SITTING UP THERE, WE TALK, WE -- THE PLANS BOARD SENDS YOU INFORMATION, STAFF SENDS YOU INFORMATION, BUT THEN THE USERS ARE USING IT. AND THAT'S WHEN WE LEARN, OH, WOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE INTENDED. WE DON'T HAVE THAT DEFINITION. AND THEN I THINK KEEPING RUNNING TRACK OF THAT SO WE CAN MAKE CONSTANT AMENDMENTS AND UPGRADES WOULD BE GREAT. AND I'M VERY PREPARED TO DO IT. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. VICE MAYOR, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION? >> NO, SIR. >> ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE OUR CITIZENS TO KNOW -- I THINK YOU DID A GREAT JOB IN YOUR INTRO COVERING A LOT OF THIS STUFF THAT YOU SPOKE ABOUT THAT I WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE ASKED. FIRST, WHAT WOULD THE FIRST 90 TO 120 SPECIFIC ACTION ITEMS BE IF YOU HAVE A POSITION? >> WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE -- FOUR MONTHS WE'LL BE IN A NEW BUDGET SEASON, SO I NEED TO GET IN THE OFFICE, MEET WITH MR. POOLE AND SEE WHERE HE'S AT WITH THE ITEMS. AND I KNOW THAT CONTRACTS ARE AN ISSUE RIGHT NOW. SO IN THE FIRST 90 TO 120 DAYS, I NEED TO GET PREPARED FOR A NEW BUDGET CYCLE, GET UP TO SPEED ON ALL OF YOUR PROJECTS WHICH I'VE BEEN FOLLOWING AND, YOU KNOW, MEET WITH THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, SEE WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE AND CERTAINLY MEET WITH THE CITY MANAGER, AND, YOU KNOW, BECOME PART OF THE TEAM AND FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY'RE GOING. SO THE FIRST 90 TO 120 DAYS IS GETTING UP TO SPEED ON ALL THE LAWSUITS AND IMPLEMENTATION OF A CONTRACT MANAGEMENT PROGRAM AND SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE ALREADY INVOLVED WITH AND THEN MEETING WITH THE CITY MANAGER, THE CITY CLERK AND ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS TO MAKE SURE WHAT THEIR LEGAL NEEDS ARE. >> THANK YOU. AND COMMISSIONER TUTEN TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT. BUT I'D LIKE YOU TO EXPAND IF YOU FEEL THERE ARE ANY ADDITIONAL POINTS. WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE UPHILL CHALLENGES OR PROBLEMS COMING FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR, DESPITE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT THAT YOU MIGHT NEED A LITTLE LEARNING CURVE ON? >> IT'S A LEARNING CURVE, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO JUST THE MAGNITUDE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS CITY RIGHT NOW, WHETHER YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY COMING FROM ANOTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT OR PRIVATE PRACTICE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEVERAL EXISTING LAWSUITS AT FEDERAL COURT, STATE COURT, SO THE CHALLENGE OF GETTING UP TO SPEED ON THOSE. I JUGGLE A LOT OF CLIENTS IN MY PRACTICE ON A DAILY BASIS, SO I DO NOW HOW TO MULTITASK AND HANDLE DIFFERENT ISSUES. BUT ALSO I THINK THAT -- I MEAN, I'M FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE LAWS. I THINK ONE THING THAT COULD BE INTERESTING IS ADVISING YOU -- I DO IT NOW WITH MY HOAS AND CONDOS. I HAVE TO ADVISE A COMMISSION IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC, AND SO MAKING SURE THAT I NAVIGATE THAT IN A WAY -- YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO SET OUT A FACT PATTERN OF HOW SOMEBODY COULD SUE YOU. SO I HAVE TO ADVISE NEW A WAY THAT TELLS YOU [00:25:03] WHAT YOU NEED TO HEAR AND ALSO PROTECTS YOU AT THE SAME TIME. SO -- BUT I DON'T SEE -- AS FAR AS THE LAW, THERE'S SO MANY CONSTANT CHANGES I THINK ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE COMING UP TO SPEED. AND I THINK ONE AREA I KNOW WAS THE IMPACT FEES THAT YOU WERE CONSIDERING. YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT LAW HAS CHANGED RECENTLY. I WOULD NEED TO COME UP TO SPEED A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THAT. I KNOW THEY WERE BRINGING THAT FORWARD UNDER THE CHANGES IN THE LAW AND SEEING HOW THAT APPLIES. SO IT'S -- THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT TO DO, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BECAUSE I'M IN PRIVATE PRACTICE. I THINK THIS CITY JUST HAS A LOT ON ITS PLATE RIGHT NOW. >> THANK YOU. AND LASTLY, SHOULD YOU BE CHOSEN, HOW SOON WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO ASSUME YOUR DUTIES? >> I WAS THINKING THE END OF JULY, SO ABOUT 45 TO 50 DAYS. >> THANK YOU. >> I ACTUALLY HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION. >> COMMISSIONER. >> WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT IN OUR INTERVIEW, BUT SOMETHING I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT. SO YOU WERE A LITIGATOR, RIGHT? YOU GO TO COURT? >> I'M LITIGATION LIGHT, BUT, YES, I DO GO TO COURT. >> BUT WITH THE PREVIOUS ATTORNEY, I DON'T THINK THAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY DID MUCH LITIGATION BUT CONTINUED -- WE PARSED THINGS OUT, AND WE RELIED ON OTHER LITIGATION FIRMS AND HAD THIS LONG LIST OF OTHER ATTORNEYS THAT WE BROUGHT IN TO DO THINGS. I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE HOW MUCH -- BECAUSE I'M ALWAYS LOOKING AT IT FROM THE FACT OF HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE SPENDING AND WHAT'S THE EFFECTIVENESS, AND IS IT MORE EFFICIENT TO DO THAT. SO WHERE WOULD YOU BE ON THAT CONTINUUM? I MEAN, WOULD WE STILL -- WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO DO SOME LITIGATION IN HOUSE OR WOULD WE END UP HAVING TO CONTINUE TO RELY ON OUTSIDE FIRMS FOR MOST ALL OF OUR LITIGATION? >> I THINK WITH THE ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, YOU WOULD HAVE TO STILL HAVE OUTSIDE COUNSEL. EXPECTING A CITY ATTORNEY -- A SOLO CITY ATTORNEY TO HANDLE ALL THE CASES THAT YOU HAVE, I DON'T THINK IT'S REALISTIC, AND IT'S WHY I'M NOT A HEAVY LITIGATOR IN MY PRACTICE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO HANDLE ALL MY CLIENTS. SO HERE YOU'RE MY CLIENT, DEPARTMENT HEADS, SO WE WOULD STILL HAVE AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL LIST. AND I ALSO THINK IT'S VERY SIMILAR NOW WHEN YOU GO TO YOUR GENERAL PRACTITIONER, THEY SEND YOU TO THE RHEUMATOLOGIST, YOU KNOW, I MAY BE VERY WELL VERSED IN THESE ISSUES, BUT THEN THERE ARE SPECIALISTS THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE BIOETHANOL PLANT. I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. YOU KNOW, THAT IS LITIGATION, YES. BUT DO WE NEED A SPECIALIST, DO WE NEED A SPECIALIST ON BURT HARRIS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE CLAIM IS? I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CASE BY CASE. BUT A CITY OF THIS SIZE WITH WHAT YOU ADDRESS ON A DAILY BASIS, I THINK THERE WILL BE AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL LIST, YES. THERE ARE NEW RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURES THAT I'M UP ON THAT IS MAKING LITIGATION MOVE A LITTLE FASTER THAT JUST WENT INTO EFFECT JANUARY 1ST, 2025. SO -- AND WHAT I DO WITH MY CLIENTS NOW IS I HANDLE THE MATTERS THAT I CAN HANDLE THAT DON'T REQUIRE AS MUCH TIME AND PREP AND DEPOSITIONS. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES IN TO DEFENDING A SUIT OF SOME OF THESE MAGNITUDES. SO WE STILL WOULD HAVE AN OUTSIDE COUNSEL LIST. >> THANK YOU. >> AND MY ROLE WOULD BE TO BE FAMILIAR WITH EVERYBODY, TO BRING IT TO YOU WHAT THAT ATTORNEY IS RECOMMENDING WE DO AND MANAGE -- YOU KNOW, MANAGE THOSE FIRMS AND MAKE SURE WE TRY AND KEEP THE COSTS DOWN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BY HAVING ME INVOLVED. AND I KNOW MORE INTIMATE THE DETAILS AND KEEPING THEM UP TO SPEED AND TRYING TO SAVE MONEY IN THAT WAY. >> ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. >> ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR MS. PRINCE? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO GO EAT AND DRINK AND BE MERRY WHILE I WAIT MY 20 MINUTES. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THIS HAS BEEN A PLEASURE. AND I WISH YOU LUCK IN YOUR DECISION TODAY. >> THANK YOU. >> NEXT WE'LL HAVE MS. ROGERS RETURN TO THE CHAMBERS, AND WE'LL START HER INTERVIEW. >> MR. -- >> THANK YOU. >> COME ON DOWN, MS. ROGERS. >> GORGE. >> GOOD MORNING. >> FEEL FREE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND GIVE US A BRIEF ONE TO TWO-MINUTE OVERVIEW WHY YOU FEEL YOU'D BE GOOD FOR THIS ROLE AND WHY YOU FEEL YOU'D BE GOOD FOR THE CITY. >> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR INVITING ME TO YOUR LOVELY CITY. MY HUSBAND AND I SPENT A COUPLE OF DAYS HERE JUST DRIVING AROUND AND LOOKING AROUND. AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE TO INTERVIEW FOR THE [00:30:04] CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH CITY ATTORNEY. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. IT WAS A PLEASURE TO MEET EACH ONE OF YOU ALL AND SPEAK TO YOU THIS MORNING. SO THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION. I THINK I SAID TO SOME OF YOU THIS MORNING, MY LIFE EXPERIENCES HAVE KIND OF BROUGHT ME TO THIS PLACE WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS THE PERFECT FIT FOR ME AT THIS TIME. I HAVE HAD EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE IN MANY AREAS OF LAW THAT KIND OF COME TOGETHER TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH. I HAVE AN EDUCATION FROM THE REGENTS LAW SCHOOL IN VIRGINIA. I'M KIND OF A TRAVELER WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION. I DID MY UNDERGRAD WORK IN KENTUCKY. I DID MY GRADUATE JD IN VIRGINIA, AND DID AN LLM AND AT UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI IN MIAMI, FLORIDA. MY LLM WAS IN REAL PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT, THE GREENSBURG TORI PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM. WE STUDIED ALL ASPECTS OF REAL ESTATE LAW FROM THE DIRT TO THE TOPPING IT OUT. SO I'VE HAD LOTS OF EXPERIENCE WITH CONSTRUCTION IN THE CITY AND LAND USE AND EVEN FAR SOUTH IN THE KEYS AND HOW THEY DEALT WITH A VERY RESTRICTED LAND USE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM THEY HAVE. WHEN I WENT BACK TO KENTUCKY, AFTER THAT -- MY HUSBAND IS A 27-YEAR VETERAN, JUST RETIRED, AND WE MOVED BACK TO KENTUCKY TO BE WITH OUR GRANDCHILDREN FOR A FEW YEARS WHILE THEY WERE SMALL. THEY'RE ALL TEENAGERS NOW AND DON'T CARE WHERE WE LIVE, AND THE BEACH SOUNDS GOOD TO THEM. MY HUSBAND GOT TRANSFERRED -- IT'S NOT BEEN A YEAR YET, TO JACKSONVILLE FOR HIS JOB. AND SO I'M LOOKING TO JOIN HIM, AND FERNANDINA BEACH WOULD BE A WONDERFUL PLACE FOR US TO MOVE TO AND RESIDE. SO IN THE PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THAT, WE WERE LOOKING -- I WAS LOOKING FOR A JOB WHERE I COULD USE THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD AS A GOVERNMENT REGULATOR. RIGHT NOW I AM THE ATTORNEY FOR THE REAL ESTATE AUTHORITY WHICH HOUSES FOUR BOARDS, A REAL ESTATE COMMISSION, BOARD OF HOME INSPECTORS, BOARD OF AUCTIONEERS AND BOARD OF APPRAISERS, THOSE FOUR BOARDS REGULARLY. ALSO BE ABLE TO USE THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD -- WELL, CURRENTLY. I THINK I'VE TOLD SOME OF YOU THAT WE HAD TO REDRAFT ALL OF THE REGULATIONS FOR OUR APPRAISER'S BOARD TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE FEDERAL OVERSIGHT FOR THE ASC WHICH IS APPRAISAL SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE FINANCE COMMITTEE FOR THE LEGISLATURE. SO WE'VE LOOKED AT LOTS OF REGULATIONS AND LOTS OF REQUIREMENTS FOR THE FEDERAL OVERSIGHT TO MAKE SURE OUR STATE REGULATIONS MATCH WITH THOSE. I FEEL LIKE I CAN BRING THAT AS A BENEFIT TO LOOKING AT THE CITY ORDINANCES AND MAKE SURE -- AND ADDRESSING THE ISSUES THEY BRING TO A CITY AND MEETING THE NEEDS OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS HERE IN FERNANDINA BEACH. I HAVE -- PRIOR TO ALL OF MY LEGAL EXPERIENCE, I WAS A REAL ESTATE BROKER IN KENTUCKY AND WORKED WITH HUNDREDS OF REAL ESTATE AGENTS AND HAD NUMEROUS REAL ESTATE AGENTS THAT OVERSAW DURING THAT TIME AS WELL. I ALSO HAVE HAD MY OWN PRIVATE PRACTICE OF LAW AND HAD TO MAKE SURE WE HAD, YOU KNOW, BALANCED BUDGET AND PAID ALL OUR BILLS ON TIME. SO I HOPE TO BRING ALL OF THAT EXPERIENCE AND EDUCATION TO BENEFIT THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT INTRODUCTION. >> ANY COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS TO START US OFF, MS. ROGERS LADIES FIRST. >> SURE. >> COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS. MY FIRST QUESTION IS ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY. WE HAVE A REALLY ACTIVE AND ENGAGED AND WELL EDUCATED COMMUNITY. AS CITY ATTORNEY, HOW WOULD YOU HELP US, THE COMMISSION, THE CITY FOSTER AN OPEN AND TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT? >> GOOD QUESTION. WITH THE BOARDS THAT I MANAGE RIGHT NOW, TRANSPARENCY IS UTMOST. IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE TRUST WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND THAT YOU'RE DOING IT IN THE BRIGHT LIGHT OF DAY UNDER THE SUNSHINE LAWS. BUT SOME THAT YOU CAN PROVIDE TO THEM THE BEST YOU CAN TO GIVE THEM THE BEST OF MY POSITION WOULD BE TO GIVE YOU TO PROVIDE FOR YOU WELL RESEARCHED, WELL INFORMED LEGAL ADVICE REGARDING THE STATUTES, REGULATIONS, ORDINANCES LAWS THAT AFFECT THE CITY AND AFFECT THE COMMISSION SO THAT YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION AND TOOLS TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION FOR THIS BOARD. [00:35:05] >> THANK YOU. MY SECOND QUESTION FOCUSES ON TWO ISSUES THAT MOST MUNICIPALITIES IN FLORIDA ARE STRUGGLING WITH, STATE STATUTES, THE BURT HARRIS ACT AND THE LIVE LOCAL ACT AND THE PRESSURE THAT THOSE TWO LAWS ARE CAUSING ON OUR PLANNING AND OUR LOCAL ISSUES. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH EITHER ONE OF THEM, OR DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT HELPING THE CITY NAVIGATE STATE LAWS THAT ARE IMPACTING OR TAKING AWAY OUR HOME RULE OR -- >> SO THE BURT HARRIS ACT YOU WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THAT ALLOWS CITIZENS TO SUE THE CITY, COUNTY, STATE FOR LOSS OF LAND USE WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE -- THAT THEY STILL ARE DEALING WITH IN MONROE COUNTY WHERE I WAS FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK I SHARED WITH SOME OF YOU ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS I HAD MADE WHILE WE WERE THERE IS SOMETHING THEY STILL USE TODAY WHICH IS A PROCESS TO PURCHASE DEVELOPMENTS. IN KENTUCKY WE HAVE A PROGRAM CALLED THE PDR PROGRAM, PURCHASE OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS. SO WE HAVE A DIFFERENT PROBLEM IN KENTUCKY. WE WANT TO PRESERVE OUR BEAUTIFUL FARM LAND, THE HORSE FARMS. SO THERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCE BETWEEN DEVELOPMENT FOR HOMES AND PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE AND WORK AND A PLACE FOR THOSE BEAUTIFUL HORSES TO GRAZE AND WANDER THROUGH THE FIELDS. SO THEY HAVE A PURCHASE OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS PROGRAM WHERE YOU SELL THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP YOUR PROPERTY TO THE -- YOU CAN SELL IT TO THE COUNTY, BUT IT'S A PROGRAM WITH THE COUNTY AND THE STATE TO PURCHASE THOSE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS. SO IN MONROE COUNTY, THEY LOOKED AT THAT, AND THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR WHICH IS PURCHASE OF LESS THAN FEE RIGHT WHICH MEANS BASICALLY THE SAME THING, THEY SELL THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO TO MITIGATE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE INVERSE CONDEMNATION OF PERSONAL PROPERTY THAT IS SO COSTLY TO CITIES, COUNTIES, STATES, THE STATE OF FLORIDA AS WELL. SO THERE ARE -- I'M SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THE ISSUES IN FERNANDINA WOULD BE. BUT I'D THINK THEY WOULD BE SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR TO THAT, THAT THERE ARE ALWAYS WAYS TO LOOK AT THEM FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE AND COME UP WITH UNIQUE IDEAS TO HANDLE THAT TO BEST SUIT THE NEEDS OF YOUR CITY. >> THANK YOU. >> NO MORE QUESTIONS? WE HAVE COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> SO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD HANDLE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ISSUES AS THE CITY ATTORNEY. THERE'S CONSTANT PRESSURE ON YOU FROM THE FIVE OF US, THERE'S PRESSURES FROM THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT WE WANT, HOW WE GET A LEGAL ANSWER, NOT A POLITICAL ANSWER, SO CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU WALK THAT LINE? >> WELL, MY JOB IS TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE. MY JOB IS NOT TO MAKE THE DECISIONS FOR YOU. AS A CITY ATTORNEY, I THINK MY JOB WOULD FIRST BE TO DO THE RESEARCH, PROVIDE LEGAL REASONING, APPLY THE FACTS TO THE LAW AND HELP GIVE YOU THE BEST INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO MAKE THE DECISION. MY JOB IS NOT GOING TO BE TO MAKE THE DECISION. THAT'S YOUR JOB. SO MY JOB WOULD BE TO PROVIDE YOU THAT INFORMATION AND THE TOOLS THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO MAKE A WELL INFORMED DECISION, ALWAYS A LOT OF PULL BETWEEN PUBLIC AND PRIVATE OR A BOARD AND THE RESIDENTS, THERE'S ALWAYS THAT PULL BETWEEN THE TWO TO COME UP WITH THE BEST DECISION AND THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS TO HAVE AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE. SO I FEEL LIKE PROVIDING YOU THAT INFORMATION AND THE RESEARCH AND REASONING TO COME TOGETHER TO HELP YOU ALL WORK AS A BOARD, TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS FOR FERNANDINA BEACH. >> AND CAN WE TALK FOR A SECOND ABOUT YOUR LITIGATION EXPERIENCE? I KNOW WE HAVE -- OUR PREVIOUS CITY ATTORNEY HAD A LONG LIST OF OUTSIDE FIRMS THAT WE USED FOR VARIOUS SUNDRY THINGS AND LITIGATION. AND I'M ALWAYS LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN MAKE THINGS MORE EFFICIENT, EFFECTIVE AND REDUCE COST. SO WHAT'S THE BALANCE BETWEEN YOUR ABILTY TO LITIGATE OR BE A LITIGATOR VERSUS CONTINUING TO USE AN OUTSIDE LITIGATION FIRM FROM A LONG LIST OF FIRMS THAT, [00:40:01] YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TODAY? >> WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE TO GET BALANCED, THE COST OF DOING THAT, PLUS THE TIME THE CITY ATTORNEY WOULD HAVE TO INVEST IN THAT. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE HAD IN KENTUCKY IS ONE OF OUR BOARDS GOT SUED. THE PEOPLE WHO SUED THE BOARD WERE TWO ATTORNEYS, AND THEY HAD PLENTY OF TIME AND PLENTY OF MOTIVATION TO CONTINUE THE LAWSUIT, AND IT'S CONTINUED TO MOVE THROUGH THE COURTS. SO THE ATTORNEY THAT WAS ASSIGNED THAT JOB HAS EATEN UP A LOT OF THEIR TIME TO DO OTHER MEANINGFUL WORK FOR THE FOUR BOARDS. SO YOU HAVE TO BALANCE THAT BETWEEN WHAT IT COSTS TO HIRE OUTSIDE ATTORNEY AND WHAT KIND OF OUTSIDE INFORMATION AND WHAT EXPERIENCE THAT YOU MIGHT NEED FOR THOSE PARTICULAR MATTERS. BUT I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY WOULD BE EVEN IF WE DO HAVE OUTSIDE THAT YOU COMMUNICATE WELL WITH THEM, THAT YOU CONTACT THEM OFTEN, THAT YOU HAVE A PLAN OF ACTION THAT YOU KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND YOU'RE KEEPING TIGHT CONTROLS ON THE OUTSIDE COUNSEL AND THE WORK THAT THEY'RE DOING AND THAT IT'S MOVING FORWARD TO THE BENEFIT OF THE CITY. AS FAR AS MY LITIGATION EXPERIENCE, I'VE HAD A LOT OF LITIGATION EXPERIENCE IN REAL ESTATE MATTERS. SO I LITIGATED A LOT OF REAL ESTATE MATTERS IN KENTUCKY AND IN SOUTH FLORIDA WHEN I WORKED FOR THE FIRM THERE, JUST REAL ESTATE DISPUTES PRIMARILY. BUT I HAD ONE VERY INTERESTING CASE BACK DURING THE TIME OF COVID. WE HAD FORCIBLE DETAINER WHICH IS AN EVICTION. MY BUILDER CLIENT ENTERED INTO A CONTRACT WITH THEIR -- THE PERSON THAT OCCUPIED WAS GOING TO BUY THEIR HOUSE, SO THEY HAD A LEASE TO PURCHASE AGREEMENT WITH THEM. THEY PUT DOWN A LARGE SUM OF MONEY, AND THEN THEY COULDN'T GET THE LOAN, AND THEN THEY WOULDN'T MOVE OUT, AND COVID LET THEM STAY IN A LITTLE BIT LONGER. SO THEY ENDED UP BEING IN THE PROPERTY FOR OVER TWO YEARS WITHOUT PAYING ANY RENT OR BEING ABLE TO OBTAIN THE MONEY. WE ENDED UP IN A JURY TRIAL TO GET A RESOLUTION TO THAT, AND I WON MY JURY TRIAL WHICH IS REAL UNUSUAL FOR REAL ESTATE ATTORNEYS TO HAVE JURY TRIALS. IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING EXPERIENCE, AND WE PREVAILED. >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND ALSO WHILE I HAVE THE FLOOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME BEING HERE AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR APPLICATION. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME THAT YOU SPENT WITH US. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER. >> I'M GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED THE PREVIOUS APPLICANT. I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES WITH OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT REALLY NEED TO BE DELVED IN TO AND CODIFIED IN A BETTER MORE CONCISE WAY. WHAT IS YOUR LEVEL OF COMFORT IN GOING THROUGH THAT TYPE OF DOCUMENT AND TWEAKING IT? >> REGULATORY REFORM IS AN ARDUOUS PROCESS. I THINK I SPOKE WITH YOU ABOUT IT AND SOME OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. WE JUST FINISHED IN MY OFFICE, AND I REWROTE 25 NEW REGULATIONS FOR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY THAT ADDRESS APPRAISERS, APPRAISER BOARD HAS THE OVERSIGHT OF OUR BOARD, THE OVERSIGHT OF KENTUCKY LAW, BUT MOST ARDUOUS IS THE OVERSIGHT FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE APPRAISAL SUBCOMMITTEE WHICH IS THE SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE FINANCE COMMITTEE FOR THE LEGISLATURE. THEY HAVE VERY STRICT REQUIREMENTS FOR APPRAISERS REGARDING HOW THEY DO APPRAISALS, WHAT THE EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS FOR APPRAISERS ARE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THEIR -- THE BANKS AND LENDING INSTITUTIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BANKS STAY SOLVENT. SO THEY ARE VERY STRICT. AND WE HAD TO REWRITE ALL OF OUR REGULATIONS TO MEET ANY NEW OR CHANGE AND UPCOMING CHANGES TO THOSE REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS, FEDERAL REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS. SO WE JUST REWROTE ALL OF THOSE. I WAS THE DRAFTER OF THOSE. A LOT OF INPUT FROM OUR BOARD MEMBERS AND INDUSTRY EXPERTS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR OUR APPRAISERS IN KENTUCKY. I ALSO SAT ON A BOARD TO OVERSEE THE FEDERAL FAIR HOUSING AND REVIEW THE REQUIREMENTS FOR FEDERAL FAIR HOUSING AND VALUE BIASED, AGAIN, APPRAISAL WORK. SO I WORKED A LOT WITH FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES IN THE PROCESS OF THOSE REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS. >> THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT. >> VICE MAYOR? >> NO, SIR. >> I KNOW I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. I ASKED YOU THIS IN OUR PRIVATE INTERVIEW. I'D JUST REITERATE. I'D LIKE OUR [00:45:02] CITIZENS TO HEAR ABOUT SPECIFIC ACTION ITEMS YOU WOULD TAKE IN THE FIRST 90 TO 120 DAYS SHOULD YOU HAVE THIS POSITION? >> THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS? WELL, I THINK THE FIRST THING I WOULD WANT TO DO HERE IS REVIEW THE ORDINANCES OF FERNANDINA BEACH. THAT WOULD BE AN AREA THAT IS REALLY NEW TO ME. I'VE READ THROUGH YOUR ORDINANCES. I READ THROUGH YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. BUT I'M SURE THERE IS A LOT MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AND DISCUSSED AND WORKED ON. YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME THINGS THAT NEED TO BE TWEAKED OR REVISED IN THOSE CODES. BUT THAT WOULD BE WANT T AND MAKE SURE THAT IT MARRIES WELL WITH YOUR STATE REQUIREMENTS AND FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS AS NECESSARY. >> THANK YOU. WHAT ONE SPOT YOU SEE AS A CHALLENGE IN YOUR ONBOARDING PROCESS BECAUSE YOU ARE COMING FROM AN OUT-OF-STATE ENTITY THAT YOU MIGHT NEED SUPPORT OF OR THAT YOU JUST AREN'T POSSIBLY AWARE OF AT THE MOMENT. >> I THINK I BRING A NEW PERSPECTIVE. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT TOO. SOMETIMES COMING FROM OUTSIDE AND LOOKING IN, YOU GET A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITHIN A CITY OR WITHIN THE COMMISSION, GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. AND I WOULD HOPE TO HAVE -- GIVE A FRESH VIEW TO THAT. BUT I ALSO WOULD WANT TO HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU ALL, WHAT YOU SEE GOING ON, WHAT YOU SEE AS THE NEEDS OF FERNANDINA, BLIND SPOTS. YOU KNOW, LEARNING HOW -- ACTUALLY HOW THE INTERIOR WORKS HERE, HOW EACH OF THE DIFFERENT BOARDS, YOU HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENT BOARDS THAT WOULD BE SEEKING ADVICE, SEVERAL DIFFERENT INTERESTS. EVERYBODY'S INTEREST IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. I'M SURE EACH OF YOUR BOARDS -- WE EVEN HAVE -- OF THE FOUR BOARDS THAT I MANAGE NOW -- WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE, OUR AUCTIONEERS AND OUR REAL ESTATE AGENTS BOTH HAD A CONFLICT ABOUT WHICH -- WHETHER OR NOT THIS CLAUSE THAT THEY WERE PUTTING IN REAL ESTATE CONTRACTS WAS AN AUCTION. THEY CALLED IT ACCELERATION CLAUSES WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN HIRE A REAL ESTATE AGENT AND TELL THEM I'LL PAY $100,000 FOR THAT HOUSE, BUT IF SOMEBODY ELSE MAKES ANOTHER OFFER, I'LL GO UP TO $120. AND THEY WERE AUTHORIZED TO KEEP -- YOU KNOW, KEEP BRINGING THE PRICE UP WAS AT AN AUCTION. A REAL ESTATE AGENT SAID, NO, THAT'S NOT AN AUCTION. THAT'S JUST REPRESENTED AS AN AGENT. THE AUCTIONEER SAID IT'S AN AUCTION, THEY ARE BIDDING UP THE PRICE. SO WE HAD TO DEAL WITH THAT BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM AND DETERMINE WHAT THE LAW SAID ABOUT IT, NOT ABOUT WHAT EACH BOARD SAID ABOUT IT. SO ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE BLACK LETTER OF THE LAW AND START WITH THAT TO MAKE A DETERMINATION. AND MY JOB WOULD BE TO RESEARCH THAT LAW, PROVIDE YOU INFORMED RESEARCH AND PRESENT IT TO YOU IN A WAY THAT YOU CAN USE IT TO MAKE YOUR DECISIONS. >> THANK YOU. AND LASTLY, SHOULD YOU BE CHOSEN FOR THIS POSITION, HOW SOON WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO ASSUME YOUR DUTIES? I AM CURRENTLY WORKING, SO I WOULD WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THE BOARDS THAT I'M REPRESENTING NOW AND PROVIDE THEM AT LEAST A TWO-WEEK NOTICE, AND PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO MOVE, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I'D BE READY TO GO RIGHT AWAY. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. ROGERS? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU AND TO BE CALLED TO INTERVIEW WITH YOU. IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY. [6.1 CITY ATTORNEY FINALIST SELECTION - The City Commission selects a finalist and directs staff to negotiate an employment agreement for consideration at their June 3, 2025, City Commission Regular Meeting.] >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW COMMISSIONERS WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 6, OUR DISCUSSION. WE HAVE OUR TWO CANDIDATES HERE, AND I'LL TAKE ANY OPENING DISCUSSION ITEMS OF THOUGHTS OF HOW THE INTERVIEWS WENT AND WHAT OUR WILL SHOULD BE MOVING FORWARD, IF THERE'S ANY CONSENSUS ON A CHOICE. >> I'LL GO. >> VICE MAYOR. >> I USUALLY DON'T, BUT I'LL GO. SO, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT HIRING CHARTER OFFICERS, AND, OF COURSE, THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY COMMUNICATION THAT WE'RE TECHNICALLY SUPPOSED TO HAVE AS COMMISSIONERS IS WITH OUR CHARTER OFFICERS, AND I LOOK AT OUR CITY MANAGER AS KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE PERSON THAT OVERSEES THE STAFF. AND WE HIRE THAT CITY MANAGER FOR THE STAFF AND TO KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, THEY ARE FOR THE CITIZENS, BUT THAT'S HER MAIN JOB >>> AND THEN, YOU KNOW, MISS CAROLINE HANDLES A LOT OF THE PUBLIC RECORDS AND THE CLERK AND ALL THE STUFF THAT THE CLERK DOES, AGAIN, FOR THE PUBLIC. I LOOK AT THE CITY ATTORNEY AS THAT IS US, THAT IS FOR US. YOU KNOW, I'M FAMILIAR ENOUGH AND HAVE ENOUGH MEETINGS AND TALKS THAT I CAN I UNDERSTAND THE LDC, I UNDERSTAND STATE LAW. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE INTRICACIES AND THINGS THAT CAN GET US IN TROUBLE, THAT CAN GET YOU CALLED DOWN TO TALLAHASSEE, THAT PERSON [00:50:01] THAT SITS IN THAT CITY ATTORNEY SPOT IS FOR US. AND I DON'T MEAN THAT IN A NEGATIVE WAY TOWARDS THE CITIZENS. YES, THEY DEFEND US IN LITIGATION AND SUCH, BUT THAT PERSON IS FOR US. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK -- AND I'LL SAY THIS TO THE EXTENT OF WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUTSIDE COUNSELS AND HIRING OUTSIDE COUNSELS, I THINK THE WORLD OF MR. POOLE. I THINK IS A PHENOMENAL ATTORNEY. I THINK HE'S GREAT. IT WOULD ALMOST BE MALPRACTICE AND SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE COULD GET IN SERIOUS TROUBLE FOR TO SEND HIM DOWN IN A LABOR DISPUTE OVER A CONTRACT OR SOMETHING WITH MR. PAUL DONNELLY OUT OF GAINESVILLE. I MEAN, IT WOULD LITERALLY BE -- IT WOULD BE IMMORAL TO DO THAT. I MEAN, SO THERE'S ATTORNEYS THAT HAVE SPECIALTIES THAT DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO. THIS PERSON HERE IS FOR US. AND I'LL SAY MY COMFORT LEVEL OF WHERE I AM IS WITH MISS TERESA PRINCE. IT'S SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, UNDERSTANDS WHERE WE ARE TODAY AND WOULD TURN AROUND AND HIT THE GROUND RUNNING. AND IF THERE IS ANY OTHER KIND OF CONFLICT, THOSE THINGS HAPPEN. THEY HAPPEN IN A SMALL COMMUNITY. I'VE HAD TO RECUSE MYSELF, COMMISSIONER POYNTER'S HAD TO RECUSE HIMSELF, AND MRS. PRINCE WOULD UNDERSTAND ALL OF THOSE BETWEEN US. AND MY COMFORT LEVEL IS WITH MS. PRINCE. I WANT TO REALLY GIVE A GOOD SHOUTOUT TO MS. ROGERS BECAUSE I THINK SHE DID A PHENOMENAL JOB IN THE INTERVIEW. AND I WAS EXTREMELY IMPRESSED WITH HER BACKGROUND, WITH WHERE SHE WANTS TO BE AND WHERE SHE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE CITY GO, I WAS EXTREMELY IMPRESSED WITH THAT. BUT MY COMFORT LEVEL IS WITH MS. PRINCE. >> THANK YOU VICE MAYOR. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR COMMISSION DISCUSSION COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> SO I THINK THEY'RE BOTH GOOD CANDIDATES, AND I UNDERSTAND THE VALUE THAT MS. PRINCE BRINGS TO THE TABLE AND THAT SHE'S FAMILIAR WITH THE COMMUNITY. I AM A BIG ADVOCATE ALSO OF HAVING FRESH EYES AND FRESH POINTS OF VIEW TO COME TO THE TABLE AS WELL SO THAT WE DON'T JUST GET INTO THE SAME KIND OF PATH. THE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO -- SO I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M COMFORTABLE ENOUGH WITH EITHER CANDIDATE TO WANT TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AT THIS POINT. WHAT I'D LIKE TO ALSO CONSIDER IS I UNDERSTAND FROM TALKING TO CITY MANAGER THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL JACKSONVILLE PROBABLY MOSTLY LAW FIRMS THAT HAVE INDICATED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE -- THEY MISS THE RFP PROCESS OR THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION OR THEY DIDN'T GET IT IN ON TIME OR WHATEVER, AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PERHAPS REOPEN UP THE RFP AND RESUBMIT IT OUT WITH MAYBE A 30-DAY WINDOW SO THAT WE COULD GET SOME OTHER OPTIONS BACK. I THINK THERE ARE SOME OTHER GOOD OPTIONS OUT THERE THAT WE OUGHT TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO CONSIDER. I KNOW THAT THAT PUTS THE PRESSURE ON MR. POOLE AND WOULD HOPEFULLY THAT HE WOULD GIVE US ANOTHER FEW WEEKS OF HIS TIME FOR US TO DO THAT. BUT I'D LIKE -- AND MAYBE -- I DON'T WANT TO PUT CITY MANAGER ON THE SPOT, BUT IF SHE COULD MAYBE COMMENT ON THE CONVERSATIONS THAT SHE'S HAD RECENTLY WITH SOME OTHER FIRMS THAT I THINK JUST GIVES US MORE OPTIONS. AND I KNOW -- I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE MORE THAN TWO OPTIONS. AND SO I WOULD ASK THAT WE CONSIDER POSTPONING THIS CONVERSATION AND RETHINK -- AND LOOKING AT SOME RFPS AND THEN MAYBE COME BACK AROUND AGAIN. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN ASK -- >> MS. CAMPBELL, COME ON UP. >> SARAH CAMPBELL, CITY MANAGER. I HAVE DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF ONE FIRM THAT DID NOT RECEIVE THE INVITATION TO BID FOR WHATEVER THEY SIGNED UP WITH DEMAND STAR BUT WENT BACK THROUGH THEIR NOTIFICATIONS. THEY DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE. THEY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SUBMITTING. AND THEN TWO OTHER FIRMS THAT -- I DON'T HAVE DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF BUT HAVE INDICATED THEY WOULD CONSIDER SUBMITTING, EITHER THEY WEREN'T AWARE OR HAD OTHER CONCERNS THAT HAVE SINCE BEEN RESOLVED. SO THREE FIRMS LIKELY IF YOU WERE TO REOPEN IT. I [00:55:01] CAN'T SAY IF THERE WOULD BE MORE. >> THANK YOU, MS. CAMPBELL. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS WHILE WE HAVE HER UP HERE? >> SO THE SUGGESTION WOULD BE JUST FOR LOOKING AT FIRMS? >> YES. >> NOT ATTORNEYS AND FIRMS, OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO -- >> YEAH. I DON'T SEE THE NEED TO OPEN IT BACK UP FOR ATTORNEYS. BUT WE COULD OPEN IT BACK UP FOR RFPS, YOU KNOW, WITH A 30-DAY WINDOW, SAY, AT THE MOST, AND THEN, FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK THESE TWO CANDIDATES ARE GOING ANYWHERE. SO IF GOING THROUGH ANOTHER CYCLE OF LOOKING AT SOME RFPS DOESN'T GET US WHAT WE WANT, THEN I THINK WE STILL HAVE THESE TWO CANDIDATE OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO US OR WE COULD CERTAINLY REACH BACK OUT TO THEM. SO I KNOW IT PUTS A LITTLE LONGER PROCESS ON THIS. BUT I JUST THINK IT GIVES US -- I WANT US TO HAVE THE BEST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND CANDIDATES AND OPTIONS THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY HAVE. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. COMMISSIONER -- >> NO. YOU WERE UP. YOU WERE UP. >> OKAY. WELL, ONE, I THINK BOTH OF THE CANDIDATES THAT WE INTERVIEWED TODAY DEFINITELY BRINGS STRENGTH. I LIKE THE FRESH ASPECT OF SOMEONE WHO HASN'T BEEN INUNDATED WITH THIS COMMUNITY FOR THE LAST 20 SOMETHING YEARS. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A FRESH PERSPECTIVE ON THAT. HAVING SAID THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF I MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR, BUT I TRULY BELIEVE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT A FIRM TYPE APPROACH WHICH GIVES -- YOU KNOW, A FIRM TYPE APPROACH IN MY OPINION WOULD GIVE THEM THE BEST OF A LOT OF WORLDS. WITH A FIRM, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT SPECIALTIES WITHIN THAT FIRM THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO RELY ON AND GO BACK WITHOUT CONSTANTLY GOING OUT FOR OTHER ATTORNEYS FOR -- THAT DIDN'T HAVE THE SPECIALIZATION OF A ATTORNEY THAT WE HAVE HERE. SO THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY PREFERENCE TO DO THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO -- I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE ONLY HAD BASICALLY ONE PERSON, AND THEN I FOUND OUT LATER THAT SOME PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE APPLIED NEVER GOT THE NOTICE, AND WE ARE PRETTY FAR DOWN THAT PATH. IF WE COULD DO IT EVEN SHORTER THAN THAT, THEN THE 30 DAYS, IF THE MINIMUM IS 21 DAYS, I WOULD SUGGEST 21 DAYS ON THAT VERSUS THE 30 TO GET IT OUT, BUT I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF PUTTING A PAUSE ON THIS FOR JUST TO SEE WHAT WE MIGHT GET, I AGREE THAT THESE TWO CANDIDATES WOULD NOT SOON BE LEAVING ANYTIME SOON. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. AND VICE MAYOR, BEFORE YOU GIVE THE CHANCE TO COMMISSIONER TUTEN. >> YEAH. SO FOR THE REASONS THAT I STATED BEFORE, I'M JUST NOT IN FAVOR OF A FIRM. THE RFP OR NOT, I MEAN, THE ONE RFP THAT CAME BACK I WAS VERY FAMILIAR WITH, AND AVOID HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT -- WITH THAT FIRM BEING SELECTED. >> I AGREE. >> I AGREE. >> WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT. >> WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT. >> SO I -- YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND. AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THE THOUGHT PROCESS IS THAT THERE'S MORE ATTORNEYS IN A FIRM, BUT THAT'S BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT, TO ME, THIS ATTORNEY IS FOR US. AND I HAVE TO HAVE A COMFORT LEVEL OF SOMEBODY THAT I CAN PICK UP THE PHONE MONDAY THROUGH SUNDAY, MAYBE THERE'S SOME HOURS THAT I CAN'T CALL, BUT I HAVE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET A HOLD OF SOMEBODY. I'VE YET TO DO THAT TO MR. POOLE BECAUSE HE'S ON A TIME CONSTRAINT WITH THE CITY, AND IT RACKS UP A BILL ANYTIME THAT I CALL HIM. BUT I CAN PROMISE YOU, OVER THE LAST 120 DAYS OR HOWEVER LONG IT'S BEEN, THERE HASN'T BEEN A WEEK THAT HASN'T GONE BY THAT I WOULD HAVE WANTED TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL AND ASK A QUESTION. AND I'M JUST UNCOMFORTABLE WITH NOT HAVING SOMEBODY THAT I CAN PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL AND THAT THEY ARE OUR ATTORNEY, THEY'RE MY ATTORNEY THAT KEEPS ME FROM GOING TO TALLAHASSEE ON AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AND MANY OTHER THINGS. I MEAN, THIS IS -- AS BAD AS THIS SOUNDS, THIS IS A DECISION OF SAYING I WANT PROTECTION, AND I WANT SOMEBODY THAT I CAN GET A HOLD OF IF THERE'S AN ISSUE, IF I GOT TO RECUSE MYSELF OR IF I DON'T, OR IF, HEY, THIS IS A BIG TOPIC, [01:00:04] ARE WE OUT OF BOUNDS HERE OR THIS IS COMING UP, I HAVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY THAT I AM COMFORTABLE WITH CALLING AT ALL TIMES OF THE DAY AND NIGHT. AND SO I DON'T THINK WE'LL GET THAT WITH A FIRM. I JUST DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO GET THE PERSONAL SERVICE THAT WE WILL GET. AND, AGAIN, I EXPLAIN THAT IT'S NOT UNCOMMON. EVEN THE COUNTY HAS ATTORNEYS THAT HANDLE SEPARATE THINGS FROM THEIR NOT ONLY COUNTY ATTORNEY BUT ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND I THINK THEY HAVE A THIRD. THEY HAVE THREE ATTORNEYS ON STAFF IN THE COUNTY, AND THEY STILL HAVE A LABOR ATTORNEY. THEY STILL HAVE A BURT HARRIS LAW SPECIALIST. THEY STILL HAVE OUTSIDE FIRMS THAT HANDLE THINGS. THAT'S NOT AN UNCOMMON THING IN GOVERNMENT. IT IS NOT UNCOMMON AT ALL. AND THE COUNTY HAS THREE OF THEM, AND THEY STILL HAVE SPECIALISTS. SO I WANT SOMEBODY WHO'S OURS AND SOMEBODY WHO WE CAN CALL ALL THE TIME. THAT'S WHY I'M -- I'M AGAINST A FIRM IN GENERAL, AND I WAS ACTUALLY KIND OF PLEASED WHEN ONE JUST CAME BACK, AND THAT KIND OF SEEMED TO COME OFF THE TABLE. BUT THAT'S JUST WHERE I AM AS SEATED COMMISSIONER. >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. AND I BELIEVE YOU HAVE A REBUTTAL OR A COMMENT? >> JUST A COMMENT THAT FROM WHAT I'VE GLEANED FROM MY RESEARCH THAT EVEN A FIRM ASSIGNS AN ATTORNEY TO YOUR ORGANIZATION. SO I AGREE. IF EVERY TIME YOU PICK UP THE PHONE, YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY ELSE, I AGREE 100%. THAT'S NOT -- THAT'S NOT THE IMPRESSION THAT I'VE GOTTEN, THAT AN ATTORNEY IS ASSIGNED TO YOU, AND THAT WOULD BE YOUR, QUOTE, FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. AND I ALSO DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT YOU HAVE OUTSIDE COUNSEL THAT SPECIALIZE IN THIS OR THAT. WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT AN ATTORNEY THAT WE HAVE ASSIGNED TO US, SOMEONE IN THAT MIGHT HAVE SOME UNDERSTANDING OF A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ON ONE THING THAT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY DONE FROM ANOTHER CITY AND THIS TYPE OF STUFF, AND THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT I AM -- THAT I AM SAYING YOU GET A BIGGER BREADTH OF KNOWLEDGE FROM WITHIN THAT GROUP. SO, I MEAN, AT THIS POINT, I THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE US TO AT LEAST TRY ONE MORE TIME TO SEE WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE, AND IF THOSE OPTIONS AND THERE IS DAUNTING OR IS UNPOPULAR AS WHAT THE VICE MAYOR IS SUGGESTING, I WOULD BE IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH THE VICE MAYOR OF GOING WITH A REGULAR ATTORNEY. BUT I JUST DON'T THINK WE'VE GIVEN OURSELVES ENOUGH OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO VET THAT OUT. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> SO TWO THINGS. I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER AYSCUE THAT I WANT AN ATTORNEY, AND THAT DOESN'T PRECLUDE USING A FIRM TO HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S ASSIGNED TO US. THE OTHER THING THAT I THOUGHT ABOUT OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, AND IT'S REALLY ALL ABOUT -- I MEAN, ONE OF OUR NUMBER ONE OPERATIONAL PRIORITIES IS IMPROVING OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS. I'M NOT ENTIRELY CONVINCED AT THIS POINT THAT WE NEED A FULL-TIME 40-HOUR A WEEK ATTORNEY. IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT WORK EXPANDS TO FILL THE TIME ALLOCATED FOR IT. SO IF YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY -- IF YOU HAVE A 40-HOUR A WEEK ATTORNEY, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THE WORK TO FILL IT. AND WE -- AND I JUST DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT THAT WE REALLY NEED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. WE NEED AN ATTORNEY ON RETAINER. WE NEED AN ATTORNEY THAT'S AVAILABLE TO US. AND SO THAT'S THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS THAT I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE VET OUT A LITTLE MORE TO SAY DO WE REALLY NEED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY, AND WHAT ARE THE PROCESSES THAT WE CAN USE TO KIND OF STREAMLINE SOME PROCESS AND MAKE THINGS A LITTLE MORE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE AS WE GO FORWARD. AND SO THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER COMPONENT OF THIS AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I THINK TALKING TO A FIRM WOULD BE HELPFUL IN THAT WE CAN WORK ON NUMBERS OF HOURS. AND IF IT TURNS INTO A FULL TIME, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, THEN WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT. BUT RIGHT NOW I'M NOT ENTIRELY CONVINCED THAT WE NEED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. AND VICE MAYOR, YOUR LIGHT IS ON. >> YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK WE DO, AND THAT IS BECAUSE WE NEED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY, EVERYTHING [01:05:02] TOUCHES LEGAL. THERE'S NOTHING -- IF YOU GO TO PUT A PIPE IN THE GROUND, IT GOES THROUGH LEGAL, EVERYTHING TOUCHES LEGAL, EVERYTHING. I MEAN, IF YOU WENT TO GO STICK A FLAGPOLE IN THE GROUND, IT TOUCHES LEGAL. THERE IS NOTHING THAT THE CITY -- THAT HAPPENS IN THE CITY THAT DOES NOT GO THROUGH LEGAL. EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH LEGAL. THERE'S -- IT IS 100% IN MY OPINION, AND THIS IS NO DISRESPECT TO THE OTHER CHARTER OFFICERS, THE CITY ATTORNEY POSITION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION THAT WE HAVE, JUST FROM US STANDPOINT, BUT, AGAIN, EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH LEGAL, EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH LEGAL. WE HAVE PROJECTS THAT ARE BACKING UP NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE -- WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO GET THEM THROUGH. IF YOU'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER 45 DAYS, YOU'RE GOING TO GET INTO BUDGET SEASON, THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE SETTING A MILLEDGE RATE, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS ATTORNEY IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME IN. WE'VE NOW HAD ALL THESE PROJECTS THAT ARE BACKED UP THAT CAN'T GET THROUGH LEGAL. WE KNOW WHAT THOSE PROJECTS ARE. WE SEE THEM. IT IS 100% THAT. AND TO THE POINT OF HAVING A FIRM AND THERE BEING MULTIPLE ATTORNEYS THERE, I'M GOING TO LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG, THEY ALL TALK TO EACH OTHER. ALL OF THESE ATTORNEYS TALK TO EACH OTHER. THEY PICK UP THE PHONE, IT'S NOT EVEN NECESSARILY BILLABLE HOURS, JUST A LITTLE SECRET, THEY ALL TALK TO EACH OTHER. THEY ALL BOUNCE IDEAS OFF OF EACH OTHER. THAT'S NOT AN UNCOMMON THING. THEY HAVE KIND OF AN UNWRITTEN RULE ABOUT THOSE KIND OF THINGS. TRUST ME. HAVING ONE, YOU HAVE PLENTY. THEIR CONNECTIONS, THEIR SCOPE OF WHO THEY REACH OUT TO, HEY, HAVE YOU USED THIS PARTICULAR FIRM BEFORE TO HANDLELE BURT HARRIS? HAVE YOU USED THIS PARTICULAR LABOR FIRM TO HANDLE LABOR DISPUTES? THEY ALL TALK TO EACH OTHER. I'M -- YOU KNOW, WITH THIS PARTICULAR THING, I'M NEVER GOING TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH A FIRM, EVEN IF -- AND I AGREE, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THEY ASSIGN SOMEBODY TO YOU. BUT IS THAT PERSON REALLY DEDICATED TO YOU? IS IT REALLY -- IF I PICKED UP THE PHONE, THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW IT'S DARRON, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT I'M LOOKING AT -- I'M TELLING YOU, I'VE SAT UP HERE AND WATCHED A COMMISSIONER GO THROUGH TWO THREX COMPLAINTS, AND I CAN TELL YOU THEY ARE NO FUN. THERE'S OTHER BOARD MEMBERS THAT HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH ETHICS COMPLAINTS. THEY ARE NO FUN. AND IT'S NOT GOING TO TAKE MUCH, IT'S NOT GOING TO TAKE MUCH, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE GOING TO WANT -- YOU'RE GOING TO WANT THAT ATTORNEY THAT YOU TALKED TO EVERYDAY THAT SITS IN YOUR STAFF MEETINGS THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT YOU IN THAT SENSE. PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE THAT COMMISSIONER IS GONE THAT THERE AREN'T ETHICS COMPLAINTS OUT THERE OR COULD HAPPEN. I CAN TELL YOU THAT RIGHT NOW. IT IS PARAMOUNT, PARAMOUNT TO HAVE SOMEBODY YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. AND I SAY THAT FROM A STANDPOINT, AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I PROBABLY WOULD NEVER USE THE CITY ATTORNEY IN ETHICS COMPLAINT, I HAVE MY OWN. I HAVE MY OWN THAT I TRUST EXPLICITLY, AND THAT'S NO DISRESPECT TO THE PREVIOUS CITY ATTORNEY OR THE CURRENT ONE OR THE FUTURE ONE. I HAVE MY OWN ATTORNEY IN ETHICS COMPLAINTS. BUT MY POINT BEING IS YOU'RE GONNA WANT SOMEBODY. WE ARE NOT LIVING IN A SOCIETY ANY MORE THAT IS JUST OOPSIES. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THAT CITY ATTORNEY POSITION IS. BUT THAT'S IT. I MEAN, I'M OUT OF THE DISCUSSION. BUT IT'S BEEN PLEASANT. THANK YOU, ALL, FOR THE INPUT. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN GREAT. BUT THAT'S JUST WHERE I AM ON IT. >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. COMMISSIONER TUTEN. >> I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER AYSCUE. I THINK WE NEED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. I THINK I THINK THE CITY IS SO COMPLEX, AND LIKE THE VICE MAYOR SAID, EVERYTHING TOUCHES LEGAL. AND I THINK WE'VE ALL ABOUT HOLDING OUR BREATH OF NOT WANTING TO ENCUMBER, YOU KNOW, HARRISON POOLE WITH CHARGES AND THINGS ON HOLD. I THINK I WOULD BE EITHER HAVING AN IN-HOUSE ATTORNEY OR A FIRM. I SAID BEFORE, MY SISTER WHO'S A MAYOR IN MY HOMETOWN, THEY HAVE A FIRM. THEY ARE VERY HAPPY WITH IT. THEY ARE ASSIGNED A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. THE FIRM HAS ABOUT 20 ATTORNEYS. SHE'S IN NEW JERSEY. IT'S THE MOST DENSE STATE IN THE NATION. HER FIRM IS IN HER TOWN, AND THE ATTORNEY IS ESSENTIALLY THEIR [01:10:04] FULL-TIME ATTORNEY. I THINK IT WOULD BE TOUGH FOR US. WE'RE RELATIVELY RURAL. IS THERE A BIG ENOUGH FIRM IN THIS COUNTY THAT IS INTERESTED? PROBABLY NOT, IF THE FIRM IS IN JACKSONVILLE, ARE WE GETTING THE SPECIALTY WE NEED? I SUPPOSE THE CONTRACT COULD BE WRITTEN THAT WE CAN HAVE AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF HOURS AND NOT FEEL LIKE WE CAN'T PICK UP THE PHONE AND ASK A QUESTION ANYTIME WE WANT. I AM UNFOLLOW WITH OPENING THIS UP FOR ANOTHER 30 DAYS. I FEEL LIKE WE -- IT'S BEEN FIVE MONTHS, BUDGET SEASON IS ABOUT TO START. SO LET'S MAKE A MO CHEEKS. >> MAKE A MOTION. >> YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE 23EUR78, BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO MOVE FORWARD, SO WE DON'T HAVE A FIRM. SO THAT DECIDED THAT. >> AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE JUST HAVE TWO CANDIDATES. WE HAD SIX APPLY. ONE DROPPED OUT, SEVERAL -- >> NO, WE HAVE TWO. >> WE HAVE TWO CANDIDATES. >> THREE WERE DEEMED -- YOU KNOW, WE DECIDED NOT TO INTERVIEW. I DON'T KNOW. ARE WE REALLY GOING TO GET BETTER CANDIDATES OR MORE PEOPLE IF WE OPEN IT UP AGAIN, OR ARE WE JUST PUTTING THIS DECISION OFF? >> WELL, THE DECISION IS NOT TO GET MORE ATTORNEYS. THE DECISION WOULD BE TO INVESTIGATE A FIRM, TO PUT OUT AN RFP FOR A FIRM, FOR A FIRM AND MORE ATTORNEYS. IT WOULD BE -- OKAY. JUST SO THAT'S CLEAR. WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR MORE INDIVIDUAL ATTORNEYS TO TAKE THE JOB. WE'RE LOOKING -- I SUGGESTED OR GENECE AS WELL -- COMMISSIONER, IT SUGGESTED LOOKING POTENTIALLY AT A FIRM, ALL RIGHT? IF THAT IS NOT THE PLEASURE OF, YOU KNOW, THE GROUP, THEN SO BE IT, MAKE A MOTION. BUT IF IT IS 20 DAYS TO ME -- I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING VICE MAYOR ACUE IS SAYING, BUT I'M LOOKING FOR THIS MORE FOR THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT AND NOT AS MUCH AS WHAT THE ATTORNEY MIGHT DO FOR ME IF I GET AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AGAINST ME. I'M LOOKING AT THIS FOR THE COMMUNITY, THIS CITY ATTORNEY, IT BE A FIRM OR AN INDIVIDUAL IS -- IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO HELP MOVE THE CITY FORWARD. AND THE POINT THAT EVERYTHING HAS TO GO THROUGH LEGAL, THAT'S A POINT OF CONTENTION THAT I HAVE, THAT NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO GO THROUGH LEGAL. NOT EVERY -- NOT EVERY PERMIT FOR A PARADE OR RENTING THE POOL OR THAT NEEDS TO GO THROUGH LEGAL. WE GOT DIRECTORS THAT WE PAY OVER HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF BUDGETS, AND THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SIGN OFF ON SOMETHING. AND RIGHT NOW EVERYONE IS WAITING FOR LEGAL. WE'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE A FORD CONTRACT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE A QATARPILLAR CONTRACT. IF YOU WANT TO BUY THEIR EQUIPMENT, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING. IT'S NOT AS ONEROUS AS BEING MADE HERE. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. COMMISSIONER TUTEN, YOUR LIGHT IS STILL ON. >> CAN I ASK A QUESTION OF MS. MATSON? >> COME ON UP, MS. MATSON. >> CAN AN RFP GO OUT FOR JUST 21 DAYS? >> THAT I'M NOT SURE. I WOULD NEED TO CHECK WITH PURCHASING. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR THAT. >> I BELIEVE THAT'S THE MINIMUM ON A CITY'S PROCUREMENT POLICY IS 21 DAYS. >> I STILL HAVE SOME REMARKS TO WEIGH IN ON THE CONVERSATION AS WELL. >> WE HAVE BEEN IGNORING YOU, SORRY. GOT EVERYTHING OUT. SO I APPRECIATE THE PERSPECTIVES ON BOTH SIDES, AND I'LL ADMIT THAT WHEN THIS BEGAN, I WAS MUCH MORE AMENABLE TO THE IDEA OF A FIRM FOR PURELY FINANCIAL REASONS. IF WE COULD SAVE A DOLLAR AMOUNT FOR OUR CITIZENS, THAT TO ME JUST MADE SENSE. I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF TREATING ABOUT 30 TO 40 PATIENTS A DAY, A NUMBER OF WHICH HAVE RUN SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES, BEEN IN MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT, MAYBE EVEN HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN COMMISSIONERS AND MAYORS. AND THE PREVAILING OPINIONS THAT I'VE HUMBLY ASKED FOR ADVICE, I'VE NEVER BEEN IN [01:15:01] THIS POSITION, NONE OF US ON THIS BOARD HAS BEEN IN THIS POSITION. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS. MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PITFALLS WITH A FIRM, EVEN A FULL-TIME PERSON THAT IS ASSIGNED TO US. THEY'LL RESIGN, AND THEY NEED A NEW PROCESS. THERE'S AN ONBOARDING PROCESS. THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR THE BILL TO INCREASE IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF HOURS. SO GIVEN AS THE VICE MAYOR AND COMMISSIONER TUTEN HAVE SAID AND SPECIFICALLY TO THE MORE RECENT REMARKS AT THE END OF YOUR POINT, COMMISSIONER TUTEN, WE'VE ALREADY EXTENDED THIS PROCESS. WE ARE FIVE MONTHS WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY. AND I DO HAVE CONCERNS SPECIFICALLY WITH WHAT LAWSUITS GO ON RIGHT NOW, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AND THIS IS NO NEGATIVE COMMENT TO MS. CAMPBELL, I THINK SHE'S BEEN DOING A PHENOMENAL JOB COMING ON BOARD. BUT SHE IS STILL A NEW CITY MANAGER. SO CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OF OUR GOVERNMENT IN SUCH A UNIQUE AMOUNT OF TIME GIVES ME PAUSE. THAT'S WHY I DO FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY, AND I'M THE FIRST ONE TO ADMIT THAT IF I'M WRONG, WE CAN REVISIT THE IDEA OF A FIRM IN SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH GIVING THIS A SHOT AT HIRING A FULL-TIME ATTORNEY THAT WE'VE CHOSEN TODAY. AND FOR THAT, UNLESS YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE, I'D LIKE TO HEAR A MOTION. >> WELL, MAYOR, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO HIRE MS. TERESA PRINCE AS OUR FULL-TIME CITY ATTORNEY. >> MOTION ON THE FLOOR. DO I HEAR A SECOND? >> I WOULD SECOND IT. >> MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY ADDITIONAL COMMISSIONER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, MS. BEST, PLEASE CALL THE ROLE. >> VICE MAYOR AYSCUE >> YES. >> COMMISSIONER TUTEN. >> YES. >> COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. >> NO. [7. PUBLIC COMMENT] >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER. >> NO. >> MAYOR ANTUN. >> THAT VOTE PASSES 3-2. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE DO HAVE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. I SEE NO FORMS SMITD. DOES ANYONE FROM THE AUDIENCE WISH TO SPEAK? CERTAINLY. AND IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE, NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, AND YOU CAN FILL OUT A FORM AT THE END. >> APOLOGIZE. >> NO PROBLEM. >> MAYOR, WHEN I CAME HERE, NO ONE WAS IN HERE. I THOUGHT I WAS IN THE WRONG BUILDING. MY NAME IS RICK HOU, 464 CARLS DOOM DRIVE. BORN AND RAISED IN GAINESVILLE BUT HAVE FAMILY IN THIS TOWN FROM ALL THE WAY BACK IN THE '60S. SO, FIRST OF ALL, I THANK ALL OF YOU BECAUSE IN MY LINE OF WORK, I ALWAYS JUST MARVEL AT PEOPLE LIKE YOU WITH ALL THE SMARTS UP THERE THAT YOU VOLUNTEER TO DO THIS AND WANT TO ACTUALLY BE IN THIS POSITION. BUT THE COMMUNITY IS DEFINITELY BENEFITED FROM THIS CONVERSATION. 40 YEARS OF BEING IN BUSINESS, I'VE HIRED, UNFORTUNATELY, SOMETIMES OUT OF NEED, LOTS OF ATTORNEYS. AND I WILL TELL YOU, I NEVER HIRED A FIRM. I HIRED THAT ATTORNEY WHO HAPPENED TO BE IN THAT FIRM. AND OVER THE YEARS, IF THAT ATTORNEY WAS A GOOD ATTORNEY, AND HE WENT TO ANOTHER FIRM OR SHE WENT TO ANOTHER FIRM, I USUALLY WENT TO THE OTHER FIRM. SO I STILL THINK YOU WOULD BE IN THE POSITION THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUAL AT THE FIRM THAT YOU'RE HIRING, AT LEAST THAT WOULD BE MY EXPERIENCE FROM JUST BEING IN BUSINESS. SECOND, FOR CLARIFICATION, I HAVE WORKED WITH MS. PRINCE AND HAVE HIRED HER, BOTH PROFESSIONALLY, PERSONALLY. I'VE BEEN A CLIENT REPRESENTATIVE ON HER CASE, REPRESENTING OUR ASSOCIATION. I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN LITIGATION INVOLVING STATE AGENCIES WHERE WE HAD HAD TO BRING IN EXPERTS AT HER ADVICE THAT SHE OVERSAW. AND ONE OF THE BEST THINGS -- ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND WERE VERY FAVORABLE ABOUT HER TALENT WAS ULTIMATELY AS A BUSINESSPERSON, AND I'M HIRING AN ATTORNEY, I DON'T WANT TO GO BEFORE THE ROPE ROBE, I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THE COURTROOM. I WANT TO GET IT SELLED WAY BEFORE THAT, AND SHE WAS VERY EFFECTIVE IN ACCOMPLISHING THAT IN SEVERAL KAYS FOR US. SO I SUPPORT THE MOTION AND THE VOTE. I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVES. I THINK YOU'LL BE WELL SERVED IF YOU COULD PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER WITH MS. PRINCE. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ANY ADDITIONAL RESIDENTS WISH TO SPEAK? SEEING NONE, WE WILL ADJOURN. THANK YOU. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.