[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
[00:00:03]
>> CALL TO ORDER. MEETING OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.
COULD YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE?
>> PLEASE JOIN ME WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
>> THANK Y'ALL. WE DON'T NEED TO STATE ANY ALTERNATE OR VICE CHAIR OR VICE CHAIR OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
COULD I ASK THE BOARD MEMBERS TO DISCLOSE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, MS. BRYNES?
>> YES. I HAD A CONVERSATION IN REGARDS TO ONE OF THE PROJECTS WITH JOSE MIRANDA ABOUT ABOUT THE PROJECT HE'LL BE SUBMITTING.
>> I SPOKE WITH STAFF ABOUT ITEM 4.1.
>> I SPOKE TO STAFF ABOUT 5.1 OR 5.2, I GUESS IT WAS.
>> THANK YOU. MR. CITY ATTORNEY, COULD YOU PLEASE PRESENT THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES?
>> OF COURSE. THANK YOU, CHAIR.
FOR THOSE CASES THAT WILL BE GOVERNED BY OUR QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES TONIGHT, THE MEETING FOR THAT HEARING WILL GO AS FOLLOWS.
STAFF WILL MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION, AND THEN THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT TO THE BOARD.
ANYONE THAT INTENDS TO GIVE ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY WILL NEED TO BE SWORN IN BY THE CLERK AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HEARING FOR THAT MATTER.
EVIDENCE MAY BE PRESENTED IN THE FORM OF TESTIMONY, EXPERT OPINION, AND DOCUMENTS SUCH AS PHOTOS AND WRITTEN REPORTS OR PLANS.
ALTHOUGH THE RULES ARE A LITTLE BIT RELAXED, IT IS NOT A COURT ROOM.
WE DO HAVE THE ESSENTIAL RULES OF DUE PROCESS AND DECORUM.
ANY PERSON THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE DECISION OF THE BOARD, WHICH MUST BE MADE AND SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, THAT AGREED PARTY HAS THE RIGHT TO APPEAL THE DECISION TO THE CIRCUIT COURT IN NASSAU COUNTY, AND THAT APPEAL MUST BE FILED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE CHAIR SIGNING THE ORDER, WHICH IS USUALLY WITHIN A DAY OR TWO OF TONIGHT'S MEETING.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURES?
>> I'M SORRY. I ACTUALLY I HAVE ONE QUESTION.
>> YES. THEN WE WOULD BE SITTING.
>> WE'RE STILL DOING IT THAT WAY.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT?
>> IF ANYBODY DOES WANT TO SPEAK TODAY, THERE ARE FORMS IN THE BACK BY THE DOOR, PLEASE MAKE SURE BEFORE YOU LEAVE THAT YOU HAVE FILLED IT OUT SO WE HAVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.
>> YES. WE NEED TO SWEAR THEM IN.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO SPEAK, PLEASE RISE AND TAKE THE OATH FROM THE CLERK.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> THANK YOU. FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS,
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES FROM OUR MARCH 20TH MEETING.HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THEM?
>> ARE THERE ANY CHANGES OR QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS?
>> CAN WE TAKE A CONSENSUS VOTE ON APPROVAL FOR THAT? CAN WE ALL AGREE TO APPROVE [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE MAKE A MOTION JUST TO MOVE TO APPROVE.
>> IF IT STRIKES YOU, JIM, GO FOR IT.
>> THAT'S THE WAY YOU'D LIKE TO DO IT?
>> THEN I THINK YOU SHOULD DO THAT.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
[00:05:01]
>> YES. FIRST ITEM IS 4.1 OLD BUSINESS, HDC 2025-0005.
[4.1 HDC 2025-0005 - MARVIN AND AGNES SWAILS, 502 BROOME STREET FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to construct a 12'x12' pergola with paver base. (Quasi-Judicial)]
CAN WE HAVE STAFF REPORT?>> YES. YOU MAY HAVE STAFF REPORT.
I'M THE PLANNER I OF THE CITY.
I COVERED MOST OF THE HISTORIC RESOURCES, APPLICATIONS, AND STUFF.
I HAVE SOME CARDS RIGHT HERE, IF ANYONE HERE WANTS TO CONTACT ME OR GIVE ME AFTER THE MEETING.
THIS IS OUR FIRST CASE THAT'S CONTINUED FROM LAST MONTH'S MEETING, HCC 2025-005.
THE APPLICANT AS AT 502 BROOME STREET.
OUR LAST MONTH'S MEETING, THE COUNCIL REQUIRED ADDITIONAL MATERIALS TO EVALUATE THE PROJECT.
THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS COME BACK TO THIS MEETING AND HAS PROVIDED VASTLY MORE INFORMATION TO DESCRIBE THE FORM, LOCATION, AND MATERIALS.
OF THE LANDSCAPE IMPROVEMENT, ALL OF WHICH HAS BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET.
ON THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE THE ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS, AS WELL AS A SITE PLAN OF THE HOME WITH THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENT.
THEN ON THIS SLIDE, I PULLED SOME PICTURES FROM THE APPLICATION WHERE THE APPLICANT HAS STAKED OUT WHERE THE PLOT WAS GOING TO GO, AS WELL AS A SCREENSHOT FROM THE PRE-DESIGNED PLANS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PURCHASED TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROJECT.
STAFF IS RECOMMENDING FINAL APPROVAL.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MIA? NO. MR. SWALES.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME FORWARD?
>> MARTY SWALES, 502 BROOME STREET.
>> THANK YOU. [LAUGHTER] THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> HE WENT TO TRAINING. THAT LOOKS GREAT.
THERE APPEAR TO BE TWO TYPES OF PERGOLA.
ONE IS THAT ONE THAT JOHN DODD DREW UP, WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY THE SUPERIOR ONE.
YOU ALSO HAVE THAT ONE, WHICH IS COMPOSED OF DIFFERENT ELEMENTS.
WHICH ONE DO YOU INTEND TO BUILD?
>> I INTEND TO BUILD THAT ONE BECAUSE WE PURCHASED A DESIGN ONLINE.
WHAT I LIKED ABOUT IT, COMPARED TO OTHERS THAT I HAD SEEN IS IT'S GOT FOUR 2*8 AS ITS MAIN SUPPORT, AND SO IT WAS SUPERIOR BASED ON WHAT I HAD SEEN ONLINE.
>> THAT WAS JUST MY QUESTION. WE GOT TWO DESIGN, SO JUST WHICH ONE [OVERLAPPING] WHOLE THAT ENTIRE PACKAGE, I THINK, IS IN THERE.
ON THE APPLICATION, IT'S LISTED AS A 12 BY 12 BY EIGHT AND WIDTH FOOT HIGH, AND WE NOTE THAT THE 12*12 GETS US BY HAVING TO HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT.
ON YOUR APPLICATION, IT'S LISTED AS A 13*13.
>> CAN I JUST JUMP IN REAL QUICK?
>> I DID TALK TO BUILDING DEPARTMENT.
SYSTEM CASES COME UP, AND THE BUILDING OFFICIALS IN FLORIDA HAVE A LOT OF AUTHORITY.
SO I SPOKE TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE'D LIKE TO SEE ANYTHING FROM A 2*2 CHICKEN COOP COME THROUGH THE PERMITTING OFFICE.
>> SO THE APPLICATION IS INCORRECT? THEN IT SAYS BETWEEN EIGHT AND NINE FEET, AND THEN JOHN STRONG HAS IT AS 11'2" TALL.
THIS IS FYI, SO WHEN YOU GO TO BUILDING, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE GIVING THEM AND WHAT YOU'RE BUILDING WITH HEIGHTS AND WHATNOT.
THOSE ARE THE ONLY DISCREPANCIES, THAT'S ALL.
>> I THINK IT LOOKS GOOD AND IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE HOUSE.
>> WE DO TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT.
>> I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE CHAMBER WHO WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THIS CASE? SEEING NONE, CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
NOW ANY BOARD COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION BEYOND WHAT WE'VE ALREADY SAID?
>> I THINK THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEEDED.
WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE BUILT AND WE'RE APPROVING SOMETHING THAT WE SEE.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HCC 2025-0005 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
I MOVE THAT THE HCC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HCC CASE 005 IS AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
[00:10:01]
>> WE HAVE A MOTION BY KOSACK, SECOND BY POZZETTA. PLEASE CALL A ROLL.
>> IT'S THE VARIANCE ONE FIRST?
[5.1 HDCV2025-0001 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR DREW + ELIZABETH RICE, 30 N. 6TH STREET Variance request from LDC Section 4.02.03 Standards for Building and Building Placement, to reduce side yard setback from 5.0 feet to 3.3 feet. (Quasi-Judicial)]
>> WE HAVE TWO CASES TO REVIEW UNDER A NEW BUSINESS.
THIS IS OUR FIRST ONE. THE APPLICANT AT 30 NORTH SIXTH STREET IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE FROM THE LDC SECTION 40203, STANDARD FOR BUILDING AND BUILDING PLACEMENT TO REDUCE THE SIDE YARD SETBACK FROM FIVE FEET TO 3.3 FEET.
THE HISTORY OF THIS CASE, AND I'LL LET THE ARCHITECT JOSE SPEAK TO THIS AS WELL.
BUT I TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT ON THAT SURVEY.
THERE WAS TWO SURVEYS CONDUCTED, AND ONE WAS INCORRECT.
WHEN THE ADDITION WAS DESIGNED, IT WASN'T IN THE SETBACK, BUT AFTER THE STAKING INSPECTION, IT WAS REVEALED THAT IT IS ENCROACHING INTO THE SETBACK.
THAT IS WHAT THIS VARIANCE IS REQUESTING, JUST TO ENCROACH A LITTLE BIT INTO THE SIDE SETBACK.
THEN ON THIS SLIDE, I HAVE PULLED THE WEST FACING ELEVATION AND A SUMMARY OF THE VARIANCE REQUEST.
JUST SOMETHING TO NOTE ABOUT THIS CASE, THAT BLOCK IS ALL ZONE C3, WHICH REQUIRES NO SETBACKS, EXCEPT FOR THAT LAST HOUSE ON THE END.
IN THE OPINION OF STAFF, IT WOULDN'T BE TOO OFFENSIVE TO THAT BLOCK TO HAVE THIS ELEVATOR ENCROACH ABOUT TWO FEET INTO THE SIDE YARD SETBACK TO THE SOUTH.
THAT BEING SAID, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING FINAL APPROVAL.
IN YOUR PACKET, I HAVE CASE HCC 2024-19, AND THAT IS THE ONE WHERE THESE PLANS WERE APPROVED.
ALSO ON THE STAFF REPORT, WHERE IT SAYS THE MOTION AT THE END, WHAT YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING AT, I FORGOT TO CHANGE THE REFERENCE NUMBER FOR THE CASE.
SO WHEN YOU READ THAT, JUST MAKE THAT ADJUSTMENT, PLEASE WHEN YOU MOTION. THANK YOU.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? MR. MIRANDA, PLEASE.
I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN A WHILE.
>> I THOUGHT SO. I HEARD THAT.
JOSE MIRANDA, MIRANDAARCHITECTS, 309 CENTER STREETS, SUITE 206.
WE OBVIOUSLY CONCUR WITH STAFF.
THIS WAS AN ANOMALY OF THE SURVEY THAT WE BASED OUR DESIGN ON WAS INCORRECT BY ALMOST 22", WHICH IS A SHOCKER.
WE TYPICALLY CAN'T CONFIRM THESE THINGS IN THE FIELD UNTIL THERE'S A STAKE-OUT.
WHEN THE CONTRACTOR HAD GOTTEN THE PERMIT AND WAS TAKING OUT THE FOUNDATION, THAT'S WHEN WE ENCOUNTERED THAT DIFFERENCE.
AS STAS ALREADY POINTED OUT, ALL THE NEIGHBORING BLOCK IS C3 WHERE THERE'S ZERO LINE SETBACK.
THIS IS THE ONLY LITTLE PIECE THAT'S GOT R2, WHICH REQUIRED THAT 10% WIDTH AND WHICH WE COULDN'T ACCOMMODATE.
WE LOOKED AT EVERYTHING FROM MAKING THE ELEVATOR SMALLER, WHICH IS NOT A POSSIBILITY OR TIGHTENING IT UP TO THE BUILDING, WHICH WAS ALSO NOT A POSSIBILITY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO UNDERMINE THE EXISTING HOUSE FOUNDATION, SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE FOR THAT VARIANCE.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE SURVEYS.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS.
I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO GET NERVOUS.
[LAUGHTER] BUT FOR US MOVING FORWARD TO ELIMINATE BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING VERY OUTRAGEOUS IN THE REGION.
I WENT BACK TO WHEN WE ORIGINALLY APPROVED THIS AND THE STAMPED SEALED COPIES, THEY HAVE THAT 2024 SURVEY IN THERE FROM WHEN IT WAS APPROVED, AND THAT WAS THE ONE BY COASTAL THAT SHOWED THE 10'4" SPACE VERSUS MANSI THAT HAD THE 12*6*7 SPACE.
>> THE INFORMATION WE HAD AT THE TIME WHEN WE DESIGNED INTO THE DRAWINGS WAS THE 2002 SURVEY.
WE DIDN'T GET THAT 2024 SURVEY UNTIL AFTER OUR DRAWINGS WERE DONE.
THEN WE SUBMITTED THAT, AND THEN THE CONTRACTOR ONE, THAT POINTED OUT, SAY, HEY, I'VE GOT A NEW SURVEY THAT SHOWS THAT IT'S UP BY 22".
>> BECAUSE I KNOW WE REQUIRE A SURVEY DONE WITHIN TWO YEARS, FOR THIS VERY REASON, THINGS SHIFT OVER TIME.
>> THE NEW SURVEY WAS DONE, AND THEN I GUESS THE QUESTION FOR STAFF IS WHERE DOES THE ONUS LIE? WHO HAS TO REALLY PARSE THROUGH THESE THINGS TO MAKE SURE, HEY, THESE SURVEYS DON'T MATCH UP? OR WHAT IF YOU POURED A WHOLE FOUNDATION FOR A HOUSE,
[00:15:03]
A STEM WALL, OR SOMETHING?>> WE HAVE THIS ISSUE QUITE, JIM COULD PROBABLY SPEAK TO THIS.
SURVEYORS ARE NOTORIOUS FOR HAVING A BIG DISCLAIMER ON THEIR SURVEY, SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT COVERED BY PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY INSURANCE.
WE CAN'T VISUALLY GO OUT THERE AND CONFIRM LOCATIONS.
NORMALLY, THE STAKES ARE NOT VERY VISIBLE WHEN THEY'VE DONE A SURVEY.
I AGREE THAT THIS CHANGE OUR IN-HOUSE PROTOCOLS AND WE CANNOT DO ANY WORK UNTIL WE HAVE A CURRENT SURVEY AND DOCUMENTED.
>> OR I GUESS IF YOU HAD ALREADY DONE THE DRAWINGS, THEN YOU JUST MERGE ANY NEW SURVEYS, AND THEN IT'S ALMOST INCUMBENT UPON YOU TO CHECK EVERY LITTLE THING BEFORE SUBMITTING.
>> THE FRUSTRATING PART IS THAT THE SURVEYORS ARE NOT ONE OF OUR CONSULTANTS.
ALL WE'RE TAKING AS THEIR INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE.
>> I'VE HAD SURVEYS SAY TO ME, SURVEYORS SAY, "WELL, SURVEYING IS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ART." SOUNDS LIKE A SCIENCE.
>> I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK FOR US MOVING FORWARD, HOW WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
BUT AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS CASE BECAUSE OF THE OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES.
>> MIA, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS TO MAKE ABOUT WHAT MS. KOSACK HAS BROUGHT UP?
>> I'M TRYING TO THINK. IT'S ALSO LIKE I'M ALSO NOT A SURVEYOR AND I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT, SO IT'S HARD FOR ME TO LOOK AT DOCUMENTS WITH SCRUTINY.
WHEN THEY'RE SIGNED AND STAMPED AND SEALED, I USUALLY TAKE THEM AT FACE VALUE.
I THINK I WOULD MAYBE REQUIRE SOME MORE TRAINING TO BE ABLE TO NOTICE A 2' DIFFERENCE.
>> THE THING IS YOU GOT THE NEW SURVEY WITH YOUR STUFF.
YOU WEREN'T USING A 2002 SURVEY, WHICH IN THAT CASE, THE ONUS WOULD HAVE BEEN ON US THAT WE MADE OR STAFF THAT IT WAS WRONG.
WE CAN'T CHECK EVERY DIMENSION ON ANYTHING.
>> WELL, WE'RE IN THE SAME BOAT. YOU'RE RIGHT.
THE MOST CURRENT ONE, AND EVEN WE'VE HAD CURRENT SURVEYS THAT ARE INCORRECT.
A TREE THAT'S OFF BY THREE FEET, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT'S IN THE HOUSE FOOTPRINT AND UNTIL WE DO A STAKE-OUT, WE DON'T KNOW THAT. ERRORS ARE COMMON.
UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S AFFECTED THE RICE PROJECT, WHICH I THINK IS ONE OF OUR LONGEST RUNNING RENOVATION PROJECTS IN NOTHING ISLAND AT THIS POINT.
I THINK THEY'RE TIRED OF COMING HERE AS WELL.
UNFORTUNATELY WE HAD TO JUMP THROUGH THIS HOOP TO.
>> WHEN THEY WERE OUT THERE, THEY WERE CHECKING THE FOOTINGS WITH THE NEW SURVEY, AND THAT'S HOW IT THROW OUT?
>> I JUST WANTED TO ADD WHAT JOSE SAID IS EXACTLY THE PROTOCOL THAT I'VE BROUGHT INTO MY OFFICE THAT YOU JUST HAVE TO INSIST ON AN UP TO DATE, CURRENT SITE PLAN.
THERE'S NEW TOOLS AND NEW SOFTWARE AND EVERYTHING TO PRODUCE SITE PLANS THESE DAYS THAT HOPEFULLY ALLEVIATE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES FROM OLDER METHODS.
BUT THAT'S ONLY A PARTIAL SOLUTION.
>> IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE NEED TO DO WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES TO CHANGE THAT OR SET THAT UP AS AN EXPECTATION?
>> NO. I THINK THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT ALREADY REQUIRES A SURVEY OF CERTAIN NO OLDER THAN.
>> IS THE SURVEY REPORT TO YOUR BOUNDARY SURVEY THOUGH?
>> IT'S NOT JUST GRADES BECAUSE I COULD SEE WHERE MORE OF THE BOUNDARY IS VERIFIED, PERHAPS.
>> IF IT'S A SIGNIFICANT PROJECT AND WE HAVE TO DO STORMWATER DRAINAGE, AND ALL THAT, THEN WE LOOK AT TREES AND TOPOGRAPHY.
BUT IN THIS CASE, IT WAS AN EXISTING BUILDING THAT ALREADY VIOLATED THE SETBACKS.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE INFORMATION WE HAD WAS OLD, AND IT WASN'T UNTIL THEY WENT THROUGH PERMITTING AND SUBMITTED THE NEW SURVEY AND THEN THE STACK OUT THAT WE SAW THE DISCREPANCY.
>> DO THAT DOES THAT TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT CONCEPTUAL APPROVALS AT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL STAGE?
>> NO, BECAUSE WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO, IT'S STILL A BUILDING PERMITTING ISSUE.
WE DON'T KNOW THE ACCURACY OF A SURVEY UNTIL YOU GET A PERMIT, START THE PROCESS, AND STAKE OUT THE CORNERS AND CONFIRM THAT.
WE DON'T CONFIRM OR DO A STAKEOUT AT THE PRELIMINARY CONCEPTUAL DESIGN.
EVEN AT THE COMPLETION CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS, WE DON'T DO THAT.
IT ISN'T UNTIL WE START THE PERMITTING PROCESS THAT THE CONTRACTOR TAKES THE LEAD ON THAT.
>> THAT'S AN EXPENSE THAT COULD BE A HARDSHIP FOR SOME OF THE CONCEPTUAL PHASE AS OPPOSED TO THOSE.
[00:20:03]
>> SURE. I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME PHASE WHERE WE COULD CATCH THIS EARLIER, SOME STAGE IN THE PROJECT.
FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING BACK WITH THIS BECAUSE I THINK YOU PROBABLY COULD HAVE GOTTEN BY WITH SOMETHING.
>> I APPRECIATE THAT YOU DIDN'T TRY TO DO THAT.
BUT I WOULD LIKE US TO THINK ABOUT OR THINK THROUGH WHAT STAGE OF A PROJECT WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO ASK FOR A CORRECTION IF THERE'S AN ISSUE?
>> LIKE I SAID, THE ONLY PROTOCOLS IN PLACE START AT THE BILLING DEPARTMENT WITH THE CONTRACTOR.
WE HAVE A LOT OF PERMITS WHERE WE COMPLETE DRAWINGS AND THEY NEVER GET TO BUILDING PERMIT BECAUSE THE COST IS TOO HIGH OR WHATEVER.
>> REALLY, UNTIL A FOOTER IS IN THE GROUND, IT'S ALL ON PAPER.
THAT'S THE FAIL STOP WHERE THEY CAN REALLY VERIFY IT.
WE CAN SAY ANYTHING WE WANT ON PAPER, AND THEN THEY'RE OFF BY 3" OR 7'' INCHES OR A FOOT.
>> AS I SAID, THERE'S NO FLUFF IN THIS DESIGN WHERE IT COULD BE ANY TIGHTER.
I MEAN, IT'S ALREADY AS TIGHT AS IT POSSIBLY CAN BE.
IT'S NOT LIKE IF YOU WENT BACK AND SAID YOU GOT TO REDESIGN THIS?
IT'S ON THE SIDE OF A BUILDING.
>> IT'S ON THE ONLY SIDE THAT WE COULD ADD ON, THAT MAKES SENSE.
YOU'RE RIGHT. WE DO HAVE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES.
I THINK THAT'S WHY STAFF WAS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, VARIANCES ARE VERY HARD TO MEET ALL CRITERIA.
>> FRANKLY, IT BALANCES OUT THE BUILDING.
>> I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.
FROM A PROCESS PERSPECTIVE FOR US WITH CASES THAT MIGHT BE NEFARIOUS, I WOULD LIKE US TO THINK THROUGH HOW CAN WE HELP THE APPLICANT TO KNOW WHEN TO COME TO US.
JOSE HAS A TENT OUT HERE, SO HE LIVES HERE, BUT NOT EVERYBODY DOES.
ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA? THANK YOU, JOSE.
I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING TO SEE IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS.
SEEING NONE, CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
ANY DISCUSSION OR ARE WE GOOD?
>> I THINK I'M GOOD FOR ALL THOSE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES.
IT'S ONLY R2 AND A C3 ZONE IT BUTTS UP AGAINST TWO ESSENTIALLY BLANK WALL OVER THERE.
IT'S NOT LIKE THIS ELEMENT IS BLOCKING NEIGHBORS WINDOWS OR ANYTHING.
>> EXACTLY. THE OTHER THING IS, FOR THE FEW VARIANCES THAT WE'VE HAD, HALF A DOZEN MAYBE, IT'S SO HARD TO HIT EVERY CRITERIA.
IT HITS THEM ALL. WE'RE NOT GOING AGAINST STAFF.
WE'RE NOT BUCKING THE SYSTEM RIGHT HERE.
IT PASSES ALL WITH FLYING COLORS.
WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL.
>> IT'S NOT AT ALL OFFENSIVE, AND THERE'S STILL SPACE.
>> SOMEBODY WANTS TO REMOVE THAT THING IN THE FUTURE.
THEY DON'T WANT AN ELEVATOR, IF THEY REMOVE IT.
>> YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION. I THINK HAD THAT UP A SECOND AGO.
>> REMEMBER IT SAYS THE WRONG REFERENCE.
>> WHERE DID IT GO? YOU HAVE NOTHING ON HERE, MIA. [LAUGHTER].
>> I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE WRONG STUFF BECAUSE MY PERGOLA SAID 12 BY 12.
>> YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE WRONG AGENDA.
>> [OVERLAPPING]. OH MY GOODNESS.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER HDCV 2020 5-0001 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT HEC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD, THAT HDC CASE HDCV 202-05-0001 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> IF I MAY INTERJECT THIS, BECAUSE THIS A VARIANCE, IF YOU COULD IN YOUR MOTION, INCORPORATE THE REASONS THAT IT MEETS THE SIX CRITERIA FOR A VARIANCE.
IN DOING SO, YOU MAY ALSO REFERENCE THE REASONS INDICATED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
[00:25:04]
>> JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, IT SCARES ME WHEN YOU GET UP AND SAY, MADAM CHAIR.
[LAUGHTER] I JUST WANT TO DENY THAT BECAUSE THIS MAN AS AN ATTORNEY.
>> YOU'RE VERY NICE. THANK YOU.
[LAUGHTER]. JUST WOULD SAY HEY [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER].
>> I'D LIKE TO AMEND MY MOTION TO INCLUDE THAT REGARDING THE VARIANCE, THAT I AGREE WITH STAFF'S ASSESSMENT OF ALL SIX CRITERIA IN THE POSITIVE.
DO I NEED TO LIST EACH ONE OUT? IT'S ALREADY IN BLACK AND WHITE? I THINK NO.
>> FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE MOTION, JUST STATE FOR THE REASONS STATED WITH REGARDS TO EACH SIX CRITERIA STEP.
>> DID YOU SECOND THAT AMENDMENT.
>> WAS ON THE ON THE BOARD TONIGHT.
>> I CAN'T SEE. VERONICA, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT AMENDED MOTION?
>> I AM OKAY WITH THAT AMENDED MOTION.
>> YES. NOW, MIA, BECAUSE THIS IS ALL KIND OF WONKY.
NOW WE'RE DOING THE HDC 2024-0019.
>> NO. THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE AGENDA PACKET FOR THE LAST CASE.
>> THIS IS UP HERE IN MY AGENDA, HDC 2025-0006.
[5.2 HDC 2025-0006 - JOHN DODD ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR CAROL MCKINNON, 107 ESTRADA STREET FINAL Certificate of Approval (COA) to construct a 2-story single-family residence with a 2-story detached accessory dwelling unit (ADU). (Quasi-Judicial)]
>> THIS IS AT 107 ASTRA STREET IN OLD TOWN, AND ON THE SCREEN, I'VE HIGHLIGHTED THE PARCEL AND I HAVE A SITE PLAN FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.
THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE WITH A TWO STORY DETACHED ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT OR ADU.
ON THE SIDE, I HAVE PULLED THE SOUTHEAST ELEVATION.
BUT EVERYTHING IS IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET FOR SITE PLANS, MATERIALS, AND OTHER ELEVATIONS LIKE THIS ONE.
STAFF RECOMMENDS FINAL APPROVAL.
WAS THIS PROJECT EVER SUBMITTED AS A CONCEPTUAL, OR THIS IS THE ONLY TIME WE'RE SEEING THIS? THANK YOU.
>> THE ACCESSORY BUILDING, IS THAT AN APARTMENT OR IS THAT A BONUS ROOM, OR WHAT'S GOING TO GO ON OVER THE GARAGE?
>> I BELIEVE THERE'S A BEDROOM AND A BATHROOM IN THERE.
>> IF THERE IS A KITCHEN, IT'S A KITCHENETTE WITH NO OVEN.
>> SO THAT MEANS THEY'RE NOT LIVABLE? WE'RE HAVING A REAL PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE BUILDING THESE THINGS THEN RENTING THEM OUT, WHICH IS AGAINST EVERYTHING.
I JUST DON'T WANT TO APPROVE ONE MORE.
>> IT WOULDN'T BE A PERMISSIBLE USE, BUT WE ARE NOT CODE ENFORCEMENT AND WE'RE NOT THE POLICE, SO WE CAN'T NECESSARILY SHUT THEM UP?
>> WELL, I KNOW. [LAUGHTER]. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE LOT WILL BE COVERED WITH ALL OF THIS? IT ALWAYS SEEMS LIKE THE WHOLE THING'S COVERED WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION.
>> I'M GOING TO PULL OUT THE PLANS.
>> MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS TO REMAIN UNDER THE 45% LOT COVERAGE MAXIMUM.
>> SO IT'S 45% OR LESS? WOULD THAT BE WHAT THAT MEANS ON PAGE 3?
BUT I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT.
>> IT APPEARS TO BE OVER BY 3%.
>> THE APPLICANT HERE? YES, SIR.
COULD YOU COME FORWARD? GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
>> GOOD EVENING. NORMAN DARISH CO-OWNER, 107 ESTRADA.
>> KAREN MCKINNON 107, ESTRADA.
>> THE ISSUE THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED WAS IT LOOKS AS THOUGH
[00:30:03]
THE BUILDING REPRESENTS 48% OF THE LOT, AND THE LIMIT IS 45%. IS THERE ANY WAY?>> I WILL SAY I RECALL A DISCUSSION THAT I HAD WITH KELLY VERY EARLY ON IN THIS PROJECT, MAYBE MY SECOND OR THIRD WEEK AT WORK, WHERE THEY HAD TO EXTEND A CONNECTING ELEMENT TO BE COMPLIANT WITH THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES.
ME AND KELLY ASKED THAT THEY AMEND THEIR PLANS.
YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT, BUT ON THIS SIDE, THE PAVEMENT COMES OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE TO ACT AS THAT CONNECTING ELEMENT THAT'S REQUIRED BY THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES.
>> CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME NECESSARILY.
>> LIKE I SAID, I'M ALSO STILL LEARNING THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES.
BUT THERE'S AN ELEMENT THAT'S BETWEEN THE ADU, THIS PART, AND OLD TOWN HAS ALL THOSE FUNKY RULES ABOUT HAVING CONNECTING ELEMENTS TO THE OUTBUILDINGS.
THIS LITTLE COVERED PATIO WAS IN ADDITION TO THE ORIGINAL PLANS THAT STAFF RECOMMENDED, SO THAT COULD MAYBE ACCOUNT FOR THAT 3% INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
>> THEY HAVE TO DECREASE THE BUILDING 3%.
>> SO THAT LITTLE PORCH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE CONNECTING ELEMENT FROM ONE BUILDING TO THE NEXT?
>> THIS WOULD BE OPEN GARDEN SPACE IN THE MIDDLE.
>> IS THIS BECAUSE THAT'S THE MEDIA PEONIA? IS THAT THE MID LINE CORRIDOR? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? THIS IS A CORNER LOT.
IF IT'S A CORNER LOT, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME VISIBILITY OR SOME DELINEATION OF SOMETHING.
>> CAN YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT ON THE CONNECTING AND WHY THIS QUALIFIES, MIA?
>> I WISH I HAD MORE TIME TO PREPARE FOR THIS MEETING, AND I WASN'T GOING TO BRING THIS UP, BUT THERE WAS A SHOOTING AT FSU TODAY.
MY FRIENDS, WE DON'T KNOW HER MEDICAL CONDITION.
I WAS GOING TO LOOK INTO SOME MORE OF THE HISTORY, BUT I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO.
THAT'S NOT A GOOD EXCUSE, BUT THAT'S WHAT I GOT.
>> I'M VERY SORRY. KELLY, CAN YOU?
>> I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS A CONNECTING ELEMENTS PIECE OF IT MORE THAN DIVIDING THAT DELINEATION BETWEEN THE TWO. [INAUDIBLE]
>> IT WOULD NEED TO BE MADE SMALLER.
THE OTHER QUESTION IS WHICH ELEMENTS ARE BEING CALCULATED INTO THAT OVERALL IMPERVIOUS SURFACE RATIO? IS THAT INCORPORATING ADDITIONAL DRIVEWAYS AND THAT TYPE OF THING THAT COULD BE MADE PERMEABLE? [BACKGROUND].
>> WHAT'S 3% OF THAT TOTAL? HOW MUCH DO I HAVE TO SHAVE OFF? WE'RE TALKING LIKE 6 " ON A WALL.
I DON'T HAVE THE CALCULATIONS.
>> MY BRAIN DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, TAMMY, I GOT TO USE THE CALCULATOR.
>> THAT'S FINE. I DON'T EVEN HAVE THAT PAGE.
WHAT SHEET IS THE CALCULATION ON?
>> IT'S COVERING THE SAME AREA HERE.
RIGHT ABOVE IT, THE LOCK COVERAGE.
I THINK THE ARCHITECT IS HERE, MIGHT BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO HOW THAT CALCULATION, BE SURE TO READ IT.
BUT LET ME ZOOM IN A BIT MORE JUST SO THAT WE CAN BETTER VISUALIZE THIS.
THE LOCATION OF THIS MEDIA PEONIA LINE IS RIGHT THROUGH HERE.
WHAT THE REQUEST WAS IS, THIS IS STILL VERY HARD TO SEE, I APOLOGIZE, I'M SEEING MUCH BETTER ON MY SCREEN THAN YOU ARE, TO INCORPORATE A FIVE-FOOT DELINEATION INTO THE DESIGN.
IS THAT EASIER TO SEE? RIGHT HERE. THE PEONIA LINE RUNS THROUGH.
TO REALLY HAVE THAT FULL FIVE-FEET DELINEATED ON THAT AS PART OF THE DESIGN ELEMENT, RATHER THAN I THINK THEY HAD A SMALLER PORTION CONNECTION PREVIOUSLY THAT WAS GOING INTO THE PEONIA LINE.
HAVING IT AT THAT FULL FIVE FEET,
[00:35:02]
THEN IF THEY CHOOSE TO CONNECT AT A LATER POINT, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE OTHER FIVE-FOOT CONNECTION, OTHER BREEZEWAY CONNECTION TO THE GARAGE.>> I THOUGHT THE FIVE FOOT WAS BOTH SIDES OF THE PEONIA LINE, MEANING 10 FEET IN TOTAL THAT SHOULD BE REFLECTED SOMEHOW IN THE ARCHITECTURE AND DELINEATED.
I CAN SEE THE FIVE FOOT ON THE ONE SIDE, BUT I DON'T SEE THE FIVE FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE.
>> WHERE THEY'VE STOPPED THIS.
>> THE BUILDING GOES RIGHT UP TO THE LINE.
THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT JIM, RIGHT?
>> THE BUILDING GOES, WHERE IT SHOULD STOP. [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT GOES UP TO THE MEDIA PEONIA.
THERE SHOULD BE SOME ARCHITECTURAL MANIPULATION THERE.
>> I THINK THEY HAD INITIALLY PROPOSED A DESIGN THAT HAD A PORCH FEATURE THAT EXTENDED ACROSS, AND RATHER THAN HAVE IT AT A PORTION OF A PORCH EXTENDING IT TO THAT FIVE FEET SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE A CONNECTED ELEMENT IN THE NATURE.
GOING TO THE GARAGE WAS THE THOUGHT BEHIND THE DIRECTION PROVIDED.
>> IF WE'RE ALREADY BEYOND 45%, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN ADD MORE.
>> AGAIN, WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT WENT INTO THAT CALCULATION, PERHAPS THIS NEEDS TO BE TABLED TO A FUTURE MEETING TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT INCORPORATES THE PAPERS OR NOT.
[OVERLAPPING] PAPERS IN IT. [INAUDIBLE]
>> MR. DODD, MIGHT YOU BE ABLE TO SHED SOME LIGHT?
>> JOHN DODD, RACHEAL AVENUE, FERNANDINA.
HELLO, EVERYBODY. I WASN'T AWARE THAT WE WERE OVER ON THE LOT COVERAGE.
I THINK THE EASIEST SOLUTION IS GOING TO BE TO SHAVE A LITTLE OFF THE SOUTHERN PORCH TO MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
WHEN I INITIALLY SUBMITTED I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT I NEEDED TO ACTUALLY CROSS THE DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN THE TWO LOTS TO ESTABLISH THE FIVE FOOT REQUIREMENT.
THE [INAUDIBLE] PROJECTING PORCH THAT'S OCCURRING RIGHT HERE WAS ADDED, AND THAT'S WHAT PUSHED ME OVER THE LOT COVERAGE WHICH, AT THAT TIME, I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS GOING OVER THE LOT COVERAGE ANYWAY, SO I THINK THE EASIEST SOLUTION OVER ALL IS ON THE SOUTHERN PORCH, THERE'S CERTAINLY A LITTLE BIT OF GIVE SPACE THERE WITHOUT ANY IMPACT ON THE DESIGN.
IT'S JUST TO SHAVE IT OFF THERE, AND THAT WOULD BRING US IN COMPLIANCE.
>> IT LOOKS LIKE 147 SQUARE FEET.
>> VERY LITTLE AMOUNT OF AREA.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THREE PERCENT OF THE 2176.
>> POSSIBLY IF IT WOULD [INAUDIBLE] ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE THAT THE WIDTH OF THE PORCH HERE, WHICH IS A VERY NONDESCRIPT UNSEEN CORNER OF THE HOUSES, I COULD POTENTIALLY SHAVE JUST THE PART OF THE PROJECTING PORCHES BEYOND THE DIVIDING LINE, AND THEN OUT THE SAME AMOUNT, I GET 60 SQUARE FOOT OUT OF THAT, AND I WOULDN'T HAVE TO [INAUDIBLE] THE SOUTHERN PORCH, WHICH IS WHERE THEY PLAN TO SPEND MOST OF THEIR TIME.
THE OTHER ONE IS JUST THERE AS COVERED ROOF PROTECTION FOR COMING AND GOING BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE.
SO THERE'S PROBABLY TWO WAYS TO RESOLVE THE OUTREACH WITHOUT TOO MUCH COMPLICATION.
>> I AGREE. I THINK IT'S A RELATIVELY EASY FIX.
>> I PREFER TO DO IT ON THAT PORCH AND REVIEW THE REST OF THE BUILDING, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, AND COME BACK WITH A REVISION FOR THAT COMMENT.
>> JIM, WHAT ABOUT THE FIVE FOOT ON EITHER SIDE OF IT? DOES THAT HAVE TO BE THROUGH AND THROUGH?
>> I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE THROUGH AND THROUGH.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEING TALKED ABOUT HERE?
WHEN I DISCUSSED IT WITH KELLY, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ON THE ONE.
BUT I TALKED ABOUT IT WITH KELLY AND IT WAS THE ONE SIDE THAT THEY HAD EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT US MEETING.
IF THERE IS AN ISSUE ON THE OTHER SIDE THEN IT'S NOT DEFINITIVE ABOUT WHERE IT'S GOING TO OCCUR.
IF I NEED TO THEN WE'D HAVE TO GO TO THE BUILDING EVER SO SLIGHTLY TO MAKE IT A FIVE FOOT INCREMENT RATHER THAN WHATEVER THAT IS, WHICH IS PROBABLY ABOUT SIX.
THAT WOULD ALSO BRING US IN THE PLANS FOR THE OTHER SIDE.
>> NO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FIVE, IT HAS TO BE A MINIMUM OF FIVE, SO IT CAN BE OVER.
MY QUESTION IS ON THE BUILDING ITSELF TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, WHICH BUMPS RIGHT UP TO THE PEONIA LINE, DOES THAT HAVE TO BE PULLED BACK FIVE FEET?
>> IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE HOUSE FROM ESTRADA STREET, WHERE THAT MEDIA PEONIA IS, FIVE FEET EITHER DIRECTION THERE SHOULD BE SOME ARCHITECTURAL ARTICULATION OF THE HOUSE TO DESIGNATE THAT THAT'S WHERE THIS LINE IS.
[00:40:01]
>> THAT PORCH. BUT IT DOESN'T SPECIFY WHICH SIDE OF THE HOUSE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, OR IT'S GOT TO GO FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER, OR ANYTHING.
IT'S JUST A DIVIDING ELEMENT SOMEWHERE IN THE DESIGN.
>> YEAH. IT'S SOME KIND OF ARTICULATION THERE THAT CAN BE READ.
>> THEN ENTRY PORCH WOULD ESTABLISH IT ON BOTH SIDES THEN, ON THIS SIDE AND THE OTHER, BECAUSE IF IT'S A DEFINING CORNER.
>> ESTRADA STREET'S OVER HERE ON THE RIGHT.
>> THE ZONING ORDINANCE DOESN'T SAY WHICH SIDE THE BUILDING IS GOING TO OCCUR ON ANYWHERE.
>> THE WHOLE LOT. THE WHOLE THROUGH AND THROUGH LINE.
>> I HAVEN'T SEEN IT DEFINED LIKE THAT MYSELF, BUT IF I'M WRONG I'LL NEED TO STUDY UP.
>> [INAUDIBLE] CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT?
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU CAN HAVE A STRUCTURE THAT CROSSES THE PEONIA LINES.
IT DOES HAVE TO HAVE A FULL 10 FOOT WIDTH WHEN IT CROSSES TO IT.
PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
MR. DODD, WHEN THIS INITIAL DESIGN CAME IN, THE DESIGN SHOWED THAT THERE WAS AN ENCROACHING ELEMENT THAT WENT TO THE PEONIA LINE, AND SO THE DIRECTION WAS GO TO THAT FULL FIVE FOOT WIDTH TO DEMONSTRATE IT SO THAT YOU COULD THEN LATER HAVE A CONNECTION ELEMENT.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE CONVERSATION WE HAD TOGETHER, AND THAT'S WHAT GREW THE SPACE THAT YOU SEE AS IT'S REFLECTED.
BUT IT DOESN'T GO THAT FULL 10 FEET, SO ARGUABLY THAT PORT SHOULD ACTUALLY BE LARGER THAN IS ILLUSTRATED SO THAT YOU REALLY COULD SEE THE MEDIA PEONIA LINE.
>> I'LL JUST ARTICULATE AT LEAST THE WAY I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT.
IS THAT IN OLD TOWN, THE ACTUAL ONLY HISTORIC THING WE HAVE IS A SPANISH GRID.
>> THE REQUIREMENT TO ADDRESS THAT MEDIA PEONIA LINE WITH ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS IS BECAUSE OF THE GRID.
TO NOT ADDRESS IT AS SEEN FROM ESTRADA STREET DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF ADDRESSING THE HISTORICAL ELEMENT OF OLD TOWN.
I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT'S FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OTHER SIDE WHICH ONLY THE NEIGHBOR SEES.
>> RIGHT. JUST FOR CLARITY, IF WE CAN PULL UP THE EAST HOUSE ELEVATION SO WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT THE SAME THING.
KEEP GOING. A LITTLE BIT MORE.
>> NORTH WEST. SOUTH. WE'RE ALMOST THERE.
>> WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT AND WE HAVE THE WINDOW ON THE FAR RIGHT.
THEN THE BUILDING ENDS, AND THEN THERE'S THE PORCH.
THE PEONIA LINE IS AT THE END OF THE BUILDING.
>> THEN WE HAVE A FIVE FOOT PORCH TO THE RIGHT.
PER GUIDELINES, FIVE FEET TO THE LEFT OF THE END OF THE BUILDING SHOULD BE SOME DEFINING ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT OR DETAIL, CORRECT?
>> OF SOMETHING. USUALLY, ALLISON OR SOMEBODY WILL DESIGN IN A GABLE SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE SOME AD HOC THING STUCK TO THE BUILDING.
IN YEARS GONE BY PEOPLE STUCK A FLAG POLE IN.
>> BUT IT DOES LOOK DIFFERENT FROM THE STRUCTURE OF THE HOUSE, SO THERE'S JUST A RECOGNITION [OVERLAPPING]
>> OF SOMETHING WHERE THE GRID IS.
BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT IN OLD TOWN, THE ONLY THING WE CAN REALLY PROTECT IS TO ENSURE THAT WE KEEP THAT GRID ALIVE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.
>> IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE FIVE FEET GETS YOU CENTER OVER THAT WINDOW.
CAN YOU DO SOMETHING OVER THE WINDOW THAT DOESN'T LOOK RIDICULOUS? IS THERE AN EYEBROW, OR A LITTLE GABLE POP UP, OR SOMETHING?
>> THERE'S TWO ISSUES PRIMARILY.
ONE IS 48% VERSUS 45, AND THE OTHER IS SOME RECOGNITION OF THE GRID.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE WANT TO LEAVE WITH THIS APPLICANT?
>> YEAH. OVERALL, CONCEPTUALLY, I THINK THE FLOOR PLAN WORKS WELL.
I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO IT, BUT THE ELEVATIONS AND THE ROOF LINES, I AM STRUGGLING WITH THE PROPORTIONS AND IF THEY'RE REALLY TRULY WORKED OUT, AND I THINK, TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FRONT ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE, THIS EAST ELEVATION HERE,
[00:45:01]
I THINK, HISTORICALLY, IF THIS WAS A HISTORIC HOME, HISTORICALLY, YOU WOULDN'T JUST HAVE ONE WINDOW SITTING ON THE SECOND FLOOR RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.IT WOULD PROBABLY BE THREE WINDOWS THERE, OR SOMETHING THAT BALANCES THAT OUT ON BOTH SIDES, WHETHER IT'S A WINDOW, OR A PANEL, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I GET IT.
ON THE FLOOR PLAN THERE'S A CLOSET ON ONE SIDE, AND I THINK IT'S A STAIR, OR WHATEVER, ON THE OTHER.
BUT THAT'S A CHALLENGE FOR ME TO HAVE THAT RIGHT IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THAT WINDOW UP THERE, AND NOT HAVE PERHAPS MORE, MAYBE IT'S THREE WINDOWS ACROSS, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S ALSO THE ROOF LINES ARE A BIT OF A CHALLENGE.
I THINK THAT THERE'S A HIP ROOF, I THINK IT'S IN THE BACK, AND THE GABLE IN THE FRONT.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT BIG.
BUT I THINK THAT WHEN YOU WORK OUT THE PEONIA LINE THING THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE ROOF LINES AND PERHAPS SCALE IT.
IT LOOKS LIKE YOU PROBABLY DO HAVE TO SCALE THIS DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
THE OTHER THING WITH THE ADU, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE FRONT, THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE ADU WORKS, AND JUST REPEATING THAT GABLE TWICE IS NOT, I THINK, A GOOD DESIGN CHOICE, AND WITHOUT DESIGNING IT, I THINK THAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT SOME OTHER OPTIONS PERHAPS FOR THAT LOWER ROOF.
>> WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH HOUSES TO BE BUILT IN OLD TOWN, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY HAVE TO SAVE THE GRID BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL ABOUT IN OLD TOWN.
YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU ONLY COVER 45% OF THE LOT.
BECAUSE THAT'S THE OTHER THING WE'RE ALL ABOUT IN OLD TOWN.
I THINK THERE'S A THIRD THING, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHAT THE HOUSE LOOKS LIKE.
IT CAN BE A GLASS HOUSE, IT CAN BE A ROUND HOUSE.
AS LONG AS IT'S NOT TOO HIGH, AND IT DOESN'T GO TOO BIG, ALL THOSE THINGS.
BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IS YOUR CHOICE.
YOU CAN DO CONCRETE, YOU CAN DO WOOD.
BUT WHATEVER YOUR TASTE IS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, THAT'S WHAT YOU CAN DO.
BECAUSE AS LONG AS YOU'VE COVERED THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE IMPORTANT TO OLD TOWN, THEN YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.
WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN SAY ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT UNDER OUR PREVIEW.
>> I RECOGNIZE THAT THOSE TWO THINGS ARE TRUE.
WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS IT'S PROBABLY A CONTINUANCE THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR HERE, SO THAT YOU COULD COME BACK WITH THE TWO PRIMARY THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO COMPLY WITH THE GUIDELINES IN OLD TOWN.
IF YOU CARE, OR THE APPLICANTS CARE TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE ABOUT THE GABLE DESIGN, ETC.
HAVE I SAID ANYTHING HORRENDOUSLY WRONG?
>> HE DIDN'T SAY, MADAM CHAIRMAN, SO I'M NOT [LAUGHTER] SCARED YET.
>> YOU SHOULD TRY THE OTHER ONE.
>> KELLY, WHAT DATE WOULD WE CONTINUE THIS TO?
>> YOU COULD CONTINUE IT TO THE NEXT AVAILABLE MEETING DATE IN MAY, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU FEEL THAT YOU COULD BE PREPARED FOR.
>> THAT'S OUR DECISION ON THIS.
WE WILL SEE YOU BACK IN MAY. YES, SIR.
>> I'M STILL REALLY NOT 100% CLEAR ON THE FIVE FOOT PEONIA DEFINITION ON ESTRADA.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT I NEED TO DO TO GET IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SEE.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE CODE ALLOWS SMALL BAY PROJECTIONS OVER A BACK OF TWO FEET.
THERE'S THIS FIVE FOOT LINE FROM THE PROPERTY LINE THAT I NEED TO SOMEHOW PUT SOME VISUAL CUE RIGHT THERE.
I HAD DONE IT BEFORE WITH A POST OFF OF A PORCH 10 YEARS AGO.
IT SEEMED TO SATISFY THE BOARD AT THE TIME.
I DON'T HAVE AN IDEA HOW TO ACCOMPLISH THIS WITH A TINY LITTLE HOUSE AND A SETBACK WITHOUT FACADES, IS MY QUESTION.
>> CAN YOU PULL UP, I CAN'T FIND IT IN THESE NEW BOOKS, THE ACTUAL CODE THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
[00:50:03]
IT'S VERY CLEAR. BUT I CAN'T FIND IT IN HERE.>> I REMEMBER IN OUR DISCUSSION TOGETHER, AND AS WE CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT THIS, WHEN THE INITIAL DESIGN CAME THROUGH THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT, THERE WAS A PORT THAT YOU HAD CONSIDERED OFF OF THIS BACK LINE HERE, THE THOUGHT BEING BRING IT BEFORE THE BOARD, LET'S SEE HOW THEY HANDLE IT.
BUT GROW IT SO THAT IT DOES INCORPORATE THAT FULL FIVE FOOT AREA UP TO THAT POINT, RATHER THAN WHERE YOU HAD INITIALLY PLACED IT WHICH WAS, AT THAT POINT, JUST TOO CLOSE TO THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK.
THE OTHER OPTION IS JUST TO KEEP IT AT A FIVE FOOT SETBACK AND NOT HAVE ANYTHING THAT GOES BEYOND THE MEDIA PEONIA LINE.
>> FIVE FEET BACK FROM THE MEDIA PEONIA LINE.
>> WHICH PUTS IT RIGHT ABOUT THAT WINDOW.
>> RIGHT. THE END OF THE HOUSE.
>> WHICH WOULD BE PUSHING THE PORCH TO THIS POINT HERE SO THAT THE IMMEDIATE PEONIA LINE, WHICH IS RIGHT AT THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS THAT CORRECT?
>> THE WHOLE HOUSE WOULD DROP BACK.
>> THE PROPERTY LINE IS ON THAT WALL RIGHT THERE.
>> IS THAT AT THE FIVE FOOT POINT? I THINK IT IS.
>> THAT ONE YOU'RE ON RIGHT THERE IS ON THE DIVIDING LINE OF THE TWO LOTS.
THE FIVE FOOT PROJECTION OF THE COVERED REAR PORCH WAS WHAT WE DISCUSSED.
>> BUT THEN YOU SUBMIT IT, RIGHT?
>> FROM YOUR AD, TO COMPLY WITH WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE RULE.
>> RIGHT. [OVERLAPPING] TO SEE HOW THE BOARD MAY HANDLE THAT.
>> IT HAS TO OCCUR ON BOTH SIDES OF THE LOT [INAUDIBLE]
>> TO CREATE A [INAUDIBLE] I WANT TO SHOW THAT SECTION OF CODE REAL QUICK.
>> LIKE I SAID, I'M IN A LITTLE BIT OF QUANDARY WHAT TO DO THERE WE ESTABLISHED [INAUDIBLE]
>> SOME OF THE ONES THAT WE'VE SEEN THAT WERE SUCCESSFUL HAVE EITHER BEEN LET ME CALL IT A REDUCTIVE AND INSET PORTION THAT'S THAT 10 FEET OF WIDTH.
WE'VE SEEN ADDITIVE ONES THAT'S A 10 FOOT WIDE PIECE THAT POPS UP.
WE'VE SEEN ONES THAT PUT A GABLE OVER IT DESIGNATING THE 10 FOOT WIDTH.
SOME OF THE ONES WE'VE SEEN THAT HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED, PEOPLE HAVE PLACED SEA SHELLS ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOUSE TO FORM A LINE CREATING THAT 10 FEET.
IT NEEDS TO BE AN ACTUAL ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT THAT DESIGNATES IT.
>> POTENTIALLY IF A BAY WERE TO PROJECT SOME DISTANCE THERE NEAR ROOF CHANGE, IS ANY PIECE OF ANYTHING GOING TO DO IT, OR DO I ACTUALLY GOT TO CHANGE ROOF SHAPES AND STUFF LIKE THAT?
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY PIECE OF ANYTHING.
IT HAS TO ARCHITECTURALLY BE APPROPRIATE.
>> FOR EXAMPLE, A BAY OFF THE CORNER WHEN A SHOWER OCCURS, IT STEPS OUT A SMALL AMOUNT.
TYPICALLY A STACK WOULD ALLOW A SMALL PROJECTION LIKE THAT, FOR EXAMPLE.
>> I THINK YOU'RE ZEROING IN ON THINGS THAT COULD [OVERLAPPING]
>> I THINK I MIGHT HAVE AN IDEA OF THAT.
>> BEHIND YOU IS THE IDEAL SITUATION.
>> WHERE THERE'S A CONNECTIVE ELEMENT.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE YOUR CASE, I THINK.
>> DO YOU MIND IF I JUST DOUBLE CHECK.
>> YES, AND I CAN SHOW YOU WHERE THAT IS HERE TOO.
>> DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU NOW?
>> WE'LL BE BACK NEXT MONTH, THANK YOU.
>> YOU NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO CONTINUE TO NEXT MONTH.
>> I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CONTINUE HDC 2025-006 UNTIL MAY'S MEETING.
>> HAVE A MOTION BY GAS AND A SECOND BY KOSACK.
WOULD YOU CALL A ROLL, PLEASE?
>> YES. WE ARE NOW ONTO BOARD BUSINESS.
DID ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO SAY BECAUSE OUR COMMENTS ARE TOWARDS THE END? THANK YOU.
BOARD BUSINESS. LDC AMENDMENT TO SECTION 9.03.00,
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
ESTABLISHING THE STARK DISTRICT COUNCIL MEMBERSHIP TO SEVEN VOTING MEMBERS AND ELIMINATING THE ALTERNATE STATUS.[00:55:05]
YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A VOTE ON THIS? YES, AN OFFICIAL VOTE.WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS SEVERAL TIMES, SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION OR DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT SOME MORE? FIRST OF ALL, DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT SOME MORE?
>> I THOUGHT WE PUSHED THIS FORWARD.
>> [OVERLAPPING] KOSACK AND A SECOND IS BURN.
>> YES. 6.2, PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE HDC WINDOW SURVEY REQUIREMENTS STANDARDS AND LANGUAGE.
>> I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN CASE STUDY BEFORE YOU GUYS DO YOUR DISCUSSION.
THERE, I KNOW IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE.
BUT THAT'S BASICALLY THE WINDOW SURVEY.
THEN MEMBER STOKOWSKI AND MYSELF WENT TO 101 EIGHTH STREET, THE TRINITY PARSONAGE, BECAUSE THEY CAME TO US BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO REPLACE THEIR WINDOWS OR GET THEM REPAIRED.
INSTEAD OF JUST GOING AHEAD WITH THE STAFF APPROVAL AND FULL SALE APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT, AND THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO DO ALL WINDOWS, ME AND MEMBER STOKOWSKI WENT OUT FOR A SITE VISIT WITH A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PROPERTY OWNER.
WE LOOKED AT ALL THE WINDOWS AND HE EVALUATED THEM AS A CONTRACTOR BECAUSE I CAN'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M LOOKING AT.
I'M LOOKING AT WINDOWS. IT WAS HELPFUL TO HAVE HIM THERE HANDS ON.
THEN I TOOK NOTES ABOUT THE SITE VISIT.
THEN I TRIAGED THEM WITH GREEN, YELLOW, AND RED.
GREEN INDICATING THAT THEY COULD BE REPAIRED PRETTY EASILY, LIKE REMOVING COCK AND PAINT AND JUST RESTORING THEM.
YELLOW, WE'RE A LITTLE MORE TRICKY.
FOR THE YELLOW ONE ON THERE, IT'S A 1/6.
IT'S A CONFUSED WINDOW, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE MORE HISTORIC ONES SO WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT TAKES A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSIDERATION.
THE RED ONES ARE THE TRULY HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT NEED A LOT OF TLC, AND WOULD PROBABLY HAPPEN AT A LATER DATE.
I LAID IT OUT FOR THEM, THE GREEN ONES.
NOT VERY HISTORIC AND COULD BE REPAIRED OR ONES THAT ARE NOT HISTORIC AND ARE IN TOTAL DISREPAIR AND COULD BE APPROVED FOR REPLACEMENT.
BUT THIS IS A NEW MODEL THAT WE'RE PLAYING WITH TO TRY TO HELP THESE BUILDINGS THAT HAVE A LOT OF WINDOWS AT ONCE, AND MAYBE NOT ALL THE FUNDS AVAILABLE ALL AT ONCE TO GET THE PROCESS MOVING.
IN ADDITION TO THE REQUIRED WINDOW SURVEY, WHICH MR. POZZETTA HAD TO NOTE THAT ARE THEY'RE IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET.
MR. STOKOWSKI TOLD ME THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE SOME INFORMATION, WHICH IS WHY THE SLIDE IS LINKED.
HE DIDN'T GET WITH ME. I CAN LET HIM TALK ABOUT [OVERLAPPING]
>> COULD YOU SHARE THAT INFORMATION?
>> MIA, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.
YOUR TRIAGE SYSTEM THAT YOU HAVE THERE.
IS THAT SOMETHING NEW THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? HOW DOES THAT MASH UP WITH THE CLASS 1 THROUGH 4 THAT WE HAVE IN THE VERBIAGE, WHERE WE SAY, CLASS 1 IS ROUTINE MAINTENANCE.
IT SEEMS LIKE THESE ARE SIMILAR.
>> I COULD HAVE GONE THE CLASS SYSTEM.
I THINK THIS WAS JUST MORE LIKE A TACTICAL APPROACH BECAUSE EVERY BUILDING AND EVERY WINDOW IS UNIQUE.
ESPECIALLY FOR THAT BUILDING, IT'S LIKE A HODGEPODGE OF WINDOWS, AND WE DON'T EXACTLY KNOW THE DATES FOR ALL OF THEM OR THE QUALITY OF CUTTING THEM OPEN.
LET'S TRY TO HELP YOU WITH THIS PROJECT.
>> THAT'S GOOD. BUT I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SQUISHY ABOUT THAT IS YOU'RE GIVING THEM COLORS, WHICH MEAN SOMETHING.
BUT HERE WITH THE CLASSES, IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS, PARTIAL REPLACEMENT, STABILIZATION, TOTAL REPLACEMENT.
THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED SO IT DEFINES IT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
>> THE CLASS NUMBERS WERE PROVIDED BY THE PROPERTY OWNER WHO WAS DOING HIS BEST TO EVALUATE WINDOWS.
THEN WE WERE THERE FOR 30 MINUTES, AND I WAS TRYING MY BEST TO WRITE WHAT STOKOWSKI WAS SAYING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE GOT.
WE DIDN'T LOOK AT EVERY SASH ON EVERY WINDOW, EVERY PANE, EVERY PULLEY.
>> YOU'RE NOT SAYING THIS PROJECT FOR THE CHURCH IS DONE.
>> NO. I'M TALKING WITH KELLY MORE TO SEE HOW THIS HELPS THEM MOVE FORWARD, BUT FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THERE WAS A PAST PROJECT WITH THE CHURCH WHERE THERE WAS REPLACEMENT OF WINDOWS THAT THE BOARD WAS NOT HAPPY WITH,
[01:00:01]
EVEN THOUGH REPLACEMENTS ARE STAFF REVIEW.THIS IS TRYING TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE WITH, WHAT CAN STAFF DO TO HELP MAKE IT A BETTER PROCESS? I WANTED TO SHOW YOU GUYS.
>> WILL WE BE GETTING THAT TO LOOK AT OR ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE PUTTING PARSING INFORMATION WITH ALL THIS? COMING UP WITH A PLAN?
>> I THINK I WOULD MAKE THIS PROPOSITION.
HOW ABOUT ADDING ANOTHER COLUMN TO YOUR THING THAT CALLS OUT HISTORIC, NON-HISTORIC FOR THE WINDOW? THEN MARRY THE COLORS TO THE CLASS DEFINITION SO THAT THESE DIFFERENT THINGS WE GOT WORKING FOR US ARE ALL KIND OF INTERWOVEN TOGETHER?
>> I JUST TAKE THE WORD FROM THE WINDOW SURVEY ABOUT THE CLASSES, OR DO I HAVE TO GO BACK AND DETERMINE CLASS BY MYSELF?
>> THE APPLICANT, MR. SCOTT LESLEY, WHO CALLED ME ABOUT THIS.
>> I THINK AN EXPERT OR A CONTRACTOR WHO'S FAMILIAR WITH IT WOULD BE THE ONES THAT SHOULD BE GUIDING THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE PROPERTY REPRESENTATIVE IN TERMS OF WHAT WOULD BE THE WORK THAT WOULD BE SUGGESTED.
>> THAT WAS MY BIG QUESTION, BECAUSE I THINK JIM DID A GREAT JOB OF PARSING THROUGH WHAT WE HAVE IN THERE.
BUT MY QUESTION WAS WE SAY WE REQUIRE A WINDOW SURVEY, I SHALL RECORD, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
WHO DOES THE SURVEY? WHO MAKES THESE? [OVERLAPPING]
>> I THINK IT'S JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO SUBMIT IT, BUT IT HAS TO BE WITH, I'LL SAY A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, A PROFESSIONAL THAT HAS THE EXPERTISE.
>> BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THAT IN THERE.
>> YES. FROM STAFF PERSPECTIVE, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHO HAS THAT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE BECAUSE VERY OFTEN, THE DOCUMENTATION THAT WE RECEIVE IS PREPARED BY A WINDOW SALESMAN OR SOMEONE WHO REALLY MAYBE THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF BUILDING WORK IN THE PAST AND THEY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF EXPERTISE BECAUSE THEY'VE WORKED ON A BUILDING IN THE PAST.
BUT THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE THE LEVEL OF EXPERTISE THAT A WINDOW EXPERT WOULD HAVE.
HOW CAN WE IDENTIFY WHO HAS SUFFICIENT CREDENTIALS TO ACTUALLY BE PUTTING TOGETHER THAT ANALYSIS IN A WAY THAT WE CAN HAVE SOME CONFIDENCE IN?
>> REQUIRED TO BE A LICENSED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.
THEN THE LICENSED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL WILL BRING IN THE TEAM THAT THEY NEED TO BRING IN, WHETHER IT BE THE WINDOW EXPERT, THE CONTRACTOR, IN ORDER TO PUT TOGETHER A COMPREHENSIVE DOCUMENT.
THAT PROBABLY INCLUDES A SITE PLAN AND ELEVATIONS AND SOME SCHEDULE, SO IT'S ACTUALLY EASY TO REVIEW.
>> WOULDN'T IT NEED TO BE A HISTORICAL WINDOW PERSON, NOT JUST A WINDOW EXPERT, BUT ONE WHO IS AN EXPERT, BUT HISTORICAL WINDOWS?
THE REPORT NEEDS TO BE TURNED IN FIRST, AND THEN TO MIA'S POINT, MAYBE THAT REPORT GETS TAKEN OUT IN THE FIELD, AND YOU COULD CALL UPON ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD TO GO WITH YOU TO TAKE THAT REPORT AND WALK AROUND THE HOUSE AND SAY, I AGREE WITH THEIR ASSESSMENT ON THIS ONE, ON THIS ONE, ON THIS ONE, BUT NOT THIS ONE.
WE COULD PERHAPS HAVE SOME KIND OF.
>> MR. STOKOWSKI MAY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT, BUT WE'RE WALKING AROUND WITH 19 WINDOWS.
HE'S LIKE, THIS IS GOOD, NOT GOOD, THIS IS GOOD, AND WE WALK AWAY.
>> IT'S NEW. THIS IS ALL NEW SO WE HAVE TO WORK THE SQUEAKS OUT AND IF IT NEEDS A LITTLE BIT MORE TONE.
>> HANG ON A SECOND, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT THIS WINDOW? IS THIS SASH BEING REPLACED?
>> DON'T MAKE ME CALL [INAUDIBLE] I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WINDOWS.
>> SORRY, I'M NOT TRYING TO ADD ANYTHING [OVERLAPPING]
>> IF I MAY, I'LL TAKE MY LEAVE.
WHEN WE SAY PRESERVATION DESIGN SPECIALIST FOR WINDOWS, IS THAT CLARIFY WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT AND MAKE IT POSSIBLE THAT IT'S ONE OF YOUR BOARD MEMBERS?
>> BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE THE ONUS OF JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PROJECT, FORGET ABOUT WINDOWS, WHATEVER.
IT'S THE ONUS OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO PREPARE DOCUMENTS.
NOW, THEY NEED TO HIRE A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, THEY NEED TO HIRE AN ARCHITECT, AN ENGINEER, OR WHOEVER IT IS THAT PREPARES THOSE DOCUMENTS.
[01:05:02]
IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAT THEY NEED TO HIRE A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL WHO CAN PREPARE THE DOCUMENTS AND THEN THOSE LICENSED PROFESSIONALS BRING IN THE EXPERTS THAT THEY NEED.MAYBE IT IS A WINDOW MANUFACTURER, BUT ULTIMATELY THAT ARCHITECT OR ENGINEER IS GOING TO SIGN AND SEAL THESE DOCUMENTS, WHEN IT GOES INTO THE BUILDING PERMIT PHASE, AND YOU HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE DESIGN.
>> I GUESS TOO, I THINK I'M GOING TO SPEAK TO BOTH SIDES.
I THINK THE FEAR NUMBER 1 IS, LIKE HEATHER WAS SAYING, IF THEY'RE NOT A PRESERVATIONIST AND THEY'RE JUST A WINDOW SALESMAN, THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, THESE WINDOWS ARE TERRIBLE.
JUST LIKE WHEN YOU HIRE THE ARBORIST TO COME OUT AND SAY, IS THIS TREE DAMAGED?
>> YOU GOT TO CUT THAT DOWN, I'LL CUT IT FOR YOU.
>> HOWEVER, THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS, IF THEY'RE TAKING THE RESPONSIBILITY AND THEY HAVE TO SIGN IT AND WE REQUIRE ALL OF THESE, THE PICTURES, THE ELEVATIONS, THE CLOSE UP PICTURES, ALL OF THE DETAILS, AND THEY PRESENT IT TO US, AND WE'RE GOING TO GRILL THEM.
WE'RE GOING TO BE LIKE, NO, WINDOW 4 LOOKS PERFECTLY FINE.
MAYBE THAT'S OUR FAIL SAFE, I DON'T KNOW.
>> IT NEEDS TO BE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
>> WE CAN'T PIGEONHOLE IT SO MUCH, AND THEY'RE GOING TO COME TO YOU LIKE JOHN DODD. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, KELLY? WHO DO I HAVE TO HIRE FOR THIS? HOMEOWNERS MIGHT THINK, WHO DO I GET TO DO THIS?
>> WELL, IN THE CASE OF THIS PARTICULAR CHURCH, I KNOW THAT IN THE PAST THEY'VE BEEN SHORT OF FUNDS TO BE ABLE TO HIRE ANYBODY TO DO MUCH OF ANYTHING.
>> FULLY HAVE SOMEBODY IN THE CONGREGATION.
>> WELL, I WOULD HOPE SO BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT.
I THINK THAT AS YOU'RE ALL SAYING, I WOULD AGREE THAT THIS DESIGN PROFESSIONAL NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED.
CERTAINLY, IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY HAD PRESERVATION BACKGROUND.
WHAT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN IS THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED WITH THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.
I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO IT.
SOME WILL ARGUE THAT TRINITY IS OUR OLDEST CHURCH.
I KNOW THERE'S DEBATE ABOUT THAT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THE PERSONAGE TO BE CLEAR.
>> THAT'S OKAY. BUT THAT WHOLE PARISH IS A HISTORIC RESOURCE FOR US.
>> DOES EVERYONE KNOW WHAT A PERSONAGE IS? I'M JEWISH, AND THERE'S LIKE A MILLION CHURCHES, SO I DON'T KNOW. [LAUGHTER]
>> TO SEE WHERE YOU MIGHT BE IN THE DARK.
>> MY HUSBAND SAYS THAT IF YOU'RE NOT JEWISH, YOU'RE CATHOLIC. [LAUGHTER] YES, MA'AM.
>> I HAVE ONE THOUGHT ON THAT, LIKE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WHERE IT'S A HARDSHIP CASE.
IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE CHURCH OR MAYBE IT'S SOME OTHER SITUATION IN TOWN.
I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY COULD COME TO PLANNING AND SAY, HERE'S OUR SITUATION, AND THEN KELLY CAN CONTACT ANY ONE OF US.
I WOULD BE WILLING TO GO OUT THERE AND WORK PRO BONO ON THEIR BEHALF.
NOW, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT FOR EVERYBODY.
BUT IF THERE'S A [OVERLAPPING]
>> HOW DO WE DETERMINE THOUGH WHO TRULY HAS A HARDSHIP?
>> COMMON SENSE, WHATEVER. BUT STILL A HOMEOWNER COULD SAY [OVERLAPPING]
>> [OVERLAPPING] BUYS AN OLD HOUSE. [LAUGHTER]
>> PRETTY MUCH ANYBODY THAT BUYS AN OLD HISTORIC HOUSE [OVERLAPPING] HARDSHIP.
>> I AGREE WITH YOU THAT I DO THE SAME THING.
>> MAYBE WE DON'T PUBLICIZE THAT, BUT YOU HAVE THAT DISCRETION AND YOU CAN PICK UP THE PHONE AND SAY, BAZZETTA, HERE'S THE DEAL, OR TAMMY, HERE'S THE DEAL.
>> COMMUNITY BUILDINGS VERSUS PERSONAL HOMES.
>> [OVERLAPPING] BUT IT'S PART OF THE TARGET.
>> I'M NOT A WINDOW EXPERT, BUT I DO LIVE WITH MEMBERS PSULKOWSKI [LAUGHTER] SPECIFICALLY, I THINK FOR SOME CASES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO REPLACE WINDOWS, WE AT 501C THERE'S WINDOWS, THERE'S A LOT OF FIRE DAMAGE IN THAT HOUSE, A LOT OF ROT IN THAT HOUSE.
THERE'S WINDOWS WITH FIRE DAMAGE AND ROT THAT WE ARE STILL GOING TO SCRAPE OFF THE ROT, SCRAPE ALL THE FIRE DAMAGE, FILL WITH WOOD EPOXY, CALL IT A DAY.
THERE'S A LOT THAT YOU CAN DO WITH THE WINDOWS INSTEAD OF JUST REPLACE.
YOU COULD DRIVE OVER WITH YOUR CAR AND STILL END UP RESTORING IT.
YOU CAN REPLACE AND REPAIR THE SASHES, MAKE YOUR OWN MUTTONS, STUFF LIKE THAT, AND I THINK THAT THOSE NEED TO BE EXPLORED JUST A LITTLE BIT AND I AGREE WITH YOU.
UNDERSTANDING THE HARDSHIP IT'S EXPENSIVE.
I THINK ALSO HISTORICAL, IT'S 4,000 SOMETHING DOLLAR, INCLUDING TRAVEL TO REBUILD A FULL WINDOW.
[01:10:02]
IT GETS EXPENSIVE.>> WELL, THAT'S A TRAVEL THOUGH.
>> INCLUDING TRAVEL, BUT IT IS EXPENSIVE.
NOW, I WILL SAY WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS ENTICE OUR CLIENTS TO GO WITH HISTORICALLY ACCURATE PRESERVATION GLASS, WHICH I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY LIKE IS SEEING THE WAVY GLASS ON YOUR 1,800 STYLE HOME, NOT YOUR ACE HARDWARE, FLAT PAN.
I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER DEGREE THAT WE CAN GO TOWARDS, LIKE IF YOU WALK DOWN HALF THE STREETS AND YOU SEE THE WAVY GLASS.
IT'S REALLY COOL. I THINK HAVING THAT REPLACED WITH LIKE ACE HARDWARE FLAT GLASS, IT TAKES THE CHARACTER AWAY OF THE OLD TINY HISTORIC AREA.
FRANKLY, I THINK FOR SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES OR HOMES IN HISTORIC AREA, TRYING TO REPLACE IT WITH PRESERVATION GLASS, WHICH IS HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, HAS A DIMPLES.
IT'S CALLED ARTIST IN GLASS WORKS.
THEY MAKE DIFFERENT VARIETIES, I BELIEVE VERONICA IS AWARE OF THAT COMPANY.
>> I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF AVENUES TO GO TO BESIDES JUST REPLACING WITH SPECIFIC WINDOWS.
I THINK THAT THEY NEED TO BE EDUCATED ON HERE ARE A LOT OF OPTIONS, AND EVEN IF YOU SEE ROT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE WHOLE THING HAS TO GET THROWN OUT BECAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T.
>> SURE. DID YOU READ THAT TIP SHEET THAT I SENT YOU FROM THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION TRUST ABOUT WINDOWS?
>> THERE IS A GREAT NINE PAGE TIP SHEET FROM THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION TRUST.
I SENT IT TO MEDIUM PSULKOWSKI, TOO [LAUGHTER] I THINK IF WE COULD EITHER REPRODUCE IT OR HAVE IT ATTACHED TO IS BECAUSE THIS IS MY FAVORITE PAGE BECAUSE THIS IS OUR NUMBER 1, WELL, ROT WOULD BE NUMBER 1.
OUR NUMBER 2 THING IS, OH, IT'S SO NOT ENERGY EFFICIENT AND HERE'S PAGE 4, MY WINDOWS ARE OLD AND DRAFTY.
WHY SHOULDN'T I BUY NEW ONES AND THEY HAVE 10 REASONS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T.
FROM EMBODIED ENERGY TO THE WOOD THAT WAS USED TO THE GLASS, TO THE CHARACTER, AND THEY'RE LOSING ENERGY IN WAY OTHER PLACES, NOT JUST WINDOWS.
>> I DO AGREE THAT THINGS SHOULD BE SAVED OR TRY TO BE REPAIRED OR RESTORED BEFORE WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT, BUT I WILL JUMP ON WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT $4,000 FOR A WINDOW REPLACEMENT FROM A CERTIFIED HISTORICAL WINDOW RESTORATION COMPANY.
THE APPROVED REPLACEMENTS ARE ALSO $1,000 A PIECE.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE REPLACING THEM WITH LIKE ALUMINUM.
THESE ARE OUR APPROVED WOODEN APPROPRIATE WINDOWS.
EVEN IF THE GLASS ISN'T WAVY, I HATE TO COMPROMISE ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION, BUT AT SOME POINT, YOU HAVE TO MANAGE CHANGE.
>> BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING SACRILEGIOUS, SWEETHEART.
>> THIS WINDOW WORKSHOP, WHAT DO WE TALK ABOUT IN THERE?
>> OH, I CAN GO. AUSTIN HISTORICAL IS THE WINDOW RESTORATION COMPANY AND THEY'RE GOING TO COME AND THEY'RE GOING TO TEACH ABOUT REMOVING THE COCK AND GLAZE AND PAINT FROM HISTORIC WINDOWS LIKE SCRAPING THEM.
I KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT GLAZING.
THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT PULLEYS.
THEY HAVE A WHOLE LIST OF THINGS I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT, THEY'RE GOING TO DISCUSS.
>> THESE PEOPLE FOR THE CASE YOU'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW, WOULD IT BENEFIT THEM AT ALL WHO COME TO THIS? TELL THEM THAT THIS IS HAPPENING AND COME HERE.
>> RIGHT. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WORKSHOPS ADDRESS ALL THE ISSUES THAT YOU'VE HEARD HERE TODAY AND WHAT YOU'RE FINDING OUT IN THE FIELD HERE.
>> I'M GOING TO THROW ONE OTHER THING OUT THERE.
WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOUSE, AND MIA, PUT THIS IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD, MY HOUSE HAD ALUMINUM WINDOWS IN IT BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN REPLACED IN THE 70S, SO I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING SACRILEGIOUS.
IF THEY HAD OLD WINDOWS, I WANT TO SAVE THEM.
I WENT BACK TO THE HISTORIC SIZES THAT WERE THERE.
MY NEW WINDOWS WERE $2,500 APIECE.
IF I HAD THOSE ORIGINAL WINDOWS THAT WERE IN THERE AND I HAD THEM RESTORED LOCALLY, IT WAS GOING TO BE ABOUT $2,100, $2,200, SO MY NEW WINDOWS WERE GOING TO COST MORE THAN THE RESTORATION IF I HAD THE OLD ONES.
THAT 4,000 IS A HUGE NUMBER BECAUSE AUSTIN HAS TO TRAVEL. THEY HAVE TO COME.
ONCE WE GET ANOTHER LOCAL COMPANY, OR THERE'S A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS THAT HAVE DONE THEIR OWN WINDOWS, I KNOW SEVERAL OF THEM, BUT WE REALLY HAVE TO GET INTO OUR BRAINS THAT THIS CAN BE DONE RIGHT AND WELL,
[01:15:01]
AND WE CAN'T JUST DEFAULT TO, WE NEED NEW WINDOWS.IT'S HARD, BUT YOU GOT TO GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD.
>> WELL, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S THE OPENING STATEMENT WHEN YOU TALK WITH A CLIENT.
WE'RE GOING TO APPROACH THIS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO SAVE AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
>> YOU CAN PUT GOOD LOOKING STORMS OR WINDOWS OR INDOORS.
THERE'S THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR TRUE PRESERVATIONIST.
>> THE OLD SCHOOL PUT PLASTIC OF THE WINDOWS IN THERE [OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER]
>> BUT AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE THE WINDOW WAS APPROVED FOR REPLACEMENT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE EVERYWHERE.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION, AND I THINK BACK TO MEMBER POZZETTA'S POINT ABOUT INDICATION OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A HISTORIC WINDOW OR A NON HISTORIC WINDOW.
THAT DISTINCTION SAYS SO MUCH ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT REPLACEMENT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED IN MY MIND, IF WE'RE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION VERY CLEARLY, IN THE CASE OF A VINYL WINDOW THAT HAS NOW FAILED, PLEASE REPLACE IT WITH A ACCURATE WINDOW THAT WE WOULD APPROVE TODAY.
WE WANT YOU TO DO THAT AND WE REALLY DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH ADDITIONAL EXPENSE AND TIME IN EVALUATING THE WINDOW AND DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SAVE IT.
I KNOW, IN THE CASE OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, THEY DID HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF NON HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT WERE REPLACED WITH WHAT WE WOULD DEEM APPROPRIATE TODAY.
I THINK THERE WERE A TOTAL OF THREE MAYBE THAT REALLY WERE UPSET ABOUT NOT HAVING BEEN SAVED, BUT EVERYTHING ELSE THAT DID GET REPLACED AND NOT RESTORED WAS NOT HISTORIC.
IF THAT DISTINCTION IS MADE AND IS UNDERSTOOD TO BE ACCURATE, DOES THE BOARD FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH US MOVING FORWARD IN THE PROCESS?
>> I THINK THE DISTINCTION, THE TRICKY PART IS WHAT DETERMINES HISTORIC AND NOT HISTORIC.
IT'S NOT JUST THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE.
BECAUSE THEN, THAT'S A VERY SMALL WINDOW, EVEN IN THIS DOCUMENT FROM THE NATIONAL TRUST, IT SAYS, EVEN IF YOUR WINDOWS ARE ONLY 60-YEARS-OLD, CHANCES ARE THAT THE WOOD THEY ARE MADE OF IS OLD GROWTH, IT'S DENSE AND DURABLE, IT'S WOOD THAT'S NOW SCARCE, HIGH QUALITY NEW WOOD WON'T LAST AS LONG AS THAT WINDOW.
THAT'S WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT EITHER DETERMINING BY MATERIAL.
YES, IF IT HAS ALREADY BEEN REPLACED WITH VINYL OR ALUMINUM, FINE.
BUT IF YOU HAVE, LIKE IN THE CHURCH, SOME WINDOWS FROM THE 60S, THEY STILL HAVE SOME OF THAT WAVY GLASS AND THE THIN MUTTONS IN THEM AND WE JUST HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF, THAT'S NOT HISTORIC.
>> THAT'S THE PIECE THAT WE REALLY NEED SOME DIRECTION [OVERLAPPING] WE NEED GUIDANCE ON THAT.
>> FOR A DECADE THAT WE CAN SAY IS NON HISTORIC?
>> WELL, WE TALKED ABOUT MATERIAL.
WE TALKED ABOUT SAYING IF IT WAS ANYTHING IN WOOD THAT WE WOULD GIVE IT A SECOND LOOK.
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? DO WE PUT A YEAR ON IT OR IS THE MATERIAL OR BOTH?
>> I THINK IT'S MATERIAL, NOT YEAR.
>> YEAH, BUT I DO GO BACK TO THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL OF PREPARING IT AND UNLESS THEY'RE WORKING ON PERCENT OF CONSTRUCTION AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ALL WORK OUT YOUR FEES HERE, BUT IT DOESN'T BENEFIT THEM TO POTENTIALLY REPLACE MORE WINDOWS.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY HAVE A STAKE IN SELLING MORE WINDOWS.
>> I THINK WHAT IS BEING SAID IS THAT THE DELINEATING FACTOR TO MAKE IT HISTORIC OR NOT DEPENDS ON THE MATERIALS IT'S MADE FROM. SO VINYL?
>> VINYL, GOOD AHEAD AND REPLACE.
>> IF IT'S HISTORIC OR POTENTIALLY HISTORIC OR A QUESTION MARK THERE, PERHAPS THEY NEED TO GET THE PROFESSIONAL TO PRESENT SOME ACTUAL REPORT AND AT LEAST INITIALLY, I THINK I CERTAINLY WOULD BE WILLING, AND I'M SURE THERE'S OTHER BOARD MEMBERS WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO GO WITH MIA TO ACTUALLY TAKE THAT REPORT AND WALK AROUND THE HOUSE.
IF I HEARD MIA CORRECTLY EARLIER, IF THERE'S 19 WINDOWS TO LOOK AT, WE NEED TO ALLOCATE SUFFICIENT TIME TO ACTUALLY LOOK AT 19 WINDOWS.
>> WE CAN MAKE A LEGIT ASSESSMENT AND I THINK INITIALLY, IT OBVIOUSLY IS GOING TO REQUIRE COMMITMENT FROM ALL OF US TO GET TO THERE.
I HAVE A FEELING THAT THIS ONE OVER HERE IS GOING TO PICK UP ON IT PRETTY QUICK.
[01:20:03]
>> I THINK YOU HAVING THE REPORT WITH THE PHOTOS SUBMITTED FIRST, SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE ALL GOING OUT THERE LIKE, OH, WELL, LET ME TAKE A PHOTO AND NO.
>> THEY'LL ALL BE DONE. IN THIS CASE, THEY DID.
THAT WAS ALL GIVEN TO US IN ADVANCE.
>> I HAVE ONE CAVEAT ON THE MATERIALS BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE GOT THREE BUILDINGS IN TOWN MID MOLD WITH THE ALUMINUM STOREFRONT WINDOW.
WE CAN'T JUST WHOLESALE, SAY IF IT'S ALUMINUM, RIP THEM OUT.
>> BUT IF IT'S ALUMINUM BE REPLACED WITH ALUMINUM, ARE WE OKAY WITH THAT? OR DO YOU WANT THEM TO RESTORE ALUMINUM WINDOWS?
>> IT DEPENDS ON IF IT'S A MID CENTURY MODERN BUILDING.
>> LIKE THE ANCHOR. ARE THEY REPLACING THEIR WINDOWS OR ARE THEY KEEPING THEIR WINDOWS? I CAN'T REMEMBER.
>> IT JUST HAS TO BE A CASE THAT YOU'RE ASSESSING.
>> WE CAN EVEN TALK ABOUT CITY HALL [OVERLAPPING]
>> WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS IN THE EXACT SAME STYLE AND BRUSHED.
>> MEMBER PSULKOWSKI LOOKED AT THOSE ALUMINUM JEALOUSY WINDOWS I TOLD YOU GUYS ABOUT, LIKE MY FIRST HC MEETING, HE SAID, NO.
>> NO. THEY'RE IN MY APARTMENT.
>> NO BITES ON FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE.
>> I DID. I'LL HAVE TO MAKE THE PRICE FREE.
[OVERLAPPING] I CAN MAKE A GREENHOUSE, SO I IMAGINE THAT.
>> SALES OLD HOUSE HAD JEALOUSY WINDOWS IN IT.
HE WOULD HAVE TAKEN THEM IN THE HEARTBEAT.
>> DO YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED FROM THE BOARD ON THIS?
>> WE HAVE A STARTING POINT, AND I HAVE ALL YOUR EMAILS.
>> THERE YOU GO. SHE KNOWS HOW TO FIND US.
>> EXCELLENT. ITEM 6.3, OLD TOWN PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES, 2021 REVISIONS STATUS.
>> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ME AND KELLY DISCOVERED THAT THE TRAIL OF IT GOT LEFT OFF FOR BEING FORMALLY ADOPTED, EVEN THOUGH THESE DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE VERY ACCESSIBLE AND READABLE AND UNDERSTANDABLE AND WE HAVE INCORPORATED SOME OF THOSE GRAPHICS INTO OUR LEC, AS WELL AS I USE THIS DOCUMENT WHEN I'M LOOKING AT OLD TOWN APPLICATIONS.
BUT AS FAR AS I CAN SEE, IT HAS NOT BEEN FORMALLY ADOPTED, AND WE STILL WOULD HAVE ADOPTED THE 2013 ONES.
>> JIM, YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS HERE.
WE NEVER SAW THIS WHOLE THING PUT TOGETHER, DID WE? I WENT BACK THROUGH OUR MINUTES AND WE HAD LITTLE UPDATES THAT JUST SAID STAFF IS WORKING ON.
>> WE SAW A PRESENTATION OF IT IN ITS DEVELOPMENT.
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE EVER SAW THAT.
>> THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES FOR 2021?
I HAVEN'T PARSED THROUGH EVERY LITTLE DETAIL, BUT THE FORM BASE IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WE TRY TO STRUGGLE THROUGH.
>> YEAH. I MIGHT EVEN AS YOU GUYS TALK TODAY, STILL LEARNING AND STRUGGLING THROUGH UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY MEAN.
>> IS IT COMPLETED? IT'S BEEN COMPLETED.
IT'S JUST NEVER BEEN BLESSED AND APPROVED BY THE POWERS THAT BE?
>> YOU NEED US TO VOTE ON THIS?
>> CAN WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IT FIRST?
>> DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE WERE DOING WITH THIS.
>> CAN WE GET THIS ON THE NEXT AGENDA THEN FOR A VOTE.
>> AGAIN, I WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU TO PLEASE SPEND SOME TIME WITHIN THIS DOCUMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT REALLY DOES REFLECT WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE FOR IT TO READ AS AND IF THERE ARE CHANGES TO IT SIMILAR TO THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT WE CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH, THAT WE ADDRESS THAT BEFORE ACCEPTING THEM.
AFTER IT IS BLESSED OR APPROVED BY THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL, WE WILL BRING IT TO THE CITY COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL BECAUSE WE DO WANT THIS TO BE THE STANDING DOCUMENT THAT WE RELY ON.
RIGHT NOW, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THE 2013 DOCUMENTS ARE WHAT IS THE GUIDANCE THAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW, ALTHOUGH THIS IS FAR BETTER IN TERMS OF GIVING US SUPPORT FOR RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO PAB OR ANYTHING.
IF WE APPROVE IT, IT GOES RIGHT TO THE COMMISSION AND THEY WOULD PROVE IT.
>> OH, YES, TO ACCEPT THAT AS THE GUIDANCE DOCUMENT.
>> CAN WE GET OR AT LEAST I WOULD LIKE HARD COPY.
>> YOU SHOULD HAVE THEM IN YOUR MEMBER BINDERS.
>> I ADDED THOSE BECAUSE I'M I LIKE THESE.
[01:25:01]
>> DO YOU WANT US TO JUST BRING OUR COMMENTS AND STUFF BACK TO NEXT MEETING OR?
>> HOW DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT?
>> YOU CAN BRING THEM BACK, I'LL PUT ON AGENDA SO WE CAN ALL DISCUSS IT, BUT IF YOU WANT TO SHOOT ME A MESSAGE ON EMAIL OR COME INTO AND TALK ABOUT THEN, THAT'S COOL.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. EARLIER, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ACCESSORY BUILDING AND APARTMENTS AND HOW YOU'RE NOT THE POLICE AND YOU'RE NOT THE CODE ENFORCER AND WHO YOU'RE ALL THE THINGS YOU'RE NOT.
LIVING WITH THAT ATTITUDE HAS CREATED A LARGE PROBLEM IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
I KNOW WE CAN'T MAKE YOU POLICE OR CODE ENFORCERS, BUT THAT SEEMS LIKE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE ENDED UP WITH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUILDING, BUILDING, BUILDING, AND THEY'RE ALL GOT A GARAGE WITH THIS NICE LITTLE ROOM OR WHATEVER AND THEN THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT'S BEING RENTED OUT.
WE'LL EITHER TURN ALL THE NEIGHBORS AGAINST NEIGHBORS AS WE ALL START TURNING EACH OTHER IN, OR WE'LL FIND SOME WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS HEAD ON.
I WOULD RATHER US DEAL WITH IT HEAD ON INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THE EXPLOSION THAT WILL TAKE PLACE.
IF WE START WALKING THE STREETS AT NIGHT TO SEE WHICH WINDOWS ARE ON, LIGHTS ARE ON IN THE GARAGE APARTMENTS.
>> THIS IS WHERE YOUR DESIGN GUIDELINES FELL APART.
>> BUT ALSO THOUGH, THAT'S A COMMISSION LDC THING.
IF WE ALLOW IT, OR IF WE DON'T ALLOW IT, BUT THEN HERE'S THE OTHER PART, THE WAY WE SKIRTED IT AND THE YEARS GONE BY IS NO STOVE.
>> SOMEBODY PUTS A COOKTOP, PUTS A LITTLE SURFACE THING.
EVERY SINGLE GARAGE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS AN ADU HAS A RENTER IN IT.
NOW, I'D RATHER HAVE A FULL TIME RENTER THAN AN AIRBNB.
>> WE HAVE THOSE TWO, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW A TOWN.
>> BUT IF WE SAY WHEN WE SEE AN ADU COME THROUGH, LIKE THIS ONE DID, AND THERE'S NO COOK TOP IN THIS KITCHENETTE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, IS THAT CORRECT?
>> I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A KIT IN THOSE PLAN, I DON'T EVEN THINK THERE WAS A KITCHEN. FROM WHAT I CAN SEE IN THE PLAN.
>> BUT I DID HEAR THEY WERE GOING TO PUT A KITCHENETTE IN THERE. NOT A KITCHEN.
>> THEY SAID EVERYTHING FITS IN THE STOVE.
>> THE WAY IT READS IS JUST GARAGE APARTMENT ON PLAN SIDE.
>> BUT WHAT ELSE COULD PLANNING OR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT DO TO ENSURE THAT?
>> ON FINAL INSPECTION FROM THE BUILDING PERMIT PERSPECTIVE, CAN THEY LOOK AT THAT?
>> THEY DO, AND IT'S NOT THERE.
THEY GET THEIR CO AND THE NEXT DAY THERE'S A REFRIGERATOR [OVERLAPPING] AND THERE'S A PLUG IN COOKTOP.
>> IT REALLY DOES THEN BECOME A CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
>> THE RESPONSIBILITY IS TECHNICALLY, THE NEIGHBORS HAVE TO APPROVE IT.
BECAUSE CODE'S NOT GOING TO SIT THERE AND WAIT LIKE, OH, SOMEBODY GOES INTO [INAUDIBLE]
>> IT DOES SAY IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE GRANTED ALREADY IN THE CODE FOR OLD TOWN.
IT ALSO LIMITS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ALREADY.
BUT WE CAN'T GO INTO PLACES AND MONITOR WHAT IS ACTUALLY PLUGGED INTO THE WALL.
>> THE CRAZY THING IS THE WHOLE THING ABOUT ATUS WAS, THEY WERE MEANT TO ALLEVIATE HOUSING SHORTAGES.
IT WAS MEANT TO BECOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND THEN THESE PEOPLE CAN MAKE A LITTLE MONEY ON THEIR RENT.
BUT IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT ABUSE IT WITH DIFFERENT THINGS.
>> I LIVE IN R1, AND THERE'S AN AIRBNB WITH THREE UNITS, AND EVERY WEEKEND NEW PEOPLE DRIVE IN.
>> [OVERLAPPING] CALL THE COMPLAINTS?
>> NO, I DON'T CALL THE POLICE. I'VE HEARD THAT THEY KNOW THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT KNOWS ABOUT THAT HOUSE, BUT THEY CAN'T REALLY DO MUCH ABOUT IT.
>> WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST, BECAUSE I ALSO HAVE AN ISSUE RIGHT NOW THAT IS CURRENTLY WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT, DEPENDING ON HOW IT COMES OUT THE OTHER END, I MIGHT JOIN IN ON EMAILS TO THE COMMISSION.
BUT CODE ENFORCEMENT IS I FEEL BAD FOR THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF BECAUSE IT'S BEEN JERKED AROUND OVER THE YEARS BY VARIOUS COMMISSIONS AND WAS MOST RECENTLY BROKEN INTO THREE OR FOUR ORGANIZATIONS, IS THAT TRUE? THEY'RE ALL IN DIFFERENT COST CENTERS.
BUT FOR A WHILE, THEY WERE JUST LIKE
[01:30:02]
A LITTLE BALL OF MERCURY SCATTERED ALL OVER THE FLOOR.THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TREATED WELL.
THE COMMISSION PRIOR TO THIS ONE ACTUALLY BADMOUTH THEM PUBLICLY FOR ENFORCING CODE.
I THINK THAT THIS COMMISSION SHOULD BE MADE AWARE BY AS MANY OF US AS POSSIBLE, THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE ABOUT THESE THINGS THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTED AND ABLE TO SEND OUT IN THE WORLD AND DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
I WOULD ADVISE ALL OF US IF YOU HAVE ANY SUCH ISSUE OR EVEN IF YOU KNOW OF ANY SUCH ISSUE, TO LET THIS COMMISSION KNOW IT BECAUSE, I DON'T KNOW.
THEY SEEM TO BE ACTING ON THINGS THAT THEY'RE HEARING ABOUT, SO LET'S HOPE THAT'S TRUE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
>> I GUESS THIS NEXT PROBLEM I HAVE, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN EVEN ADDRESS IT IN THE HDC GUIDELINES OR WHATEVER.
WHEN THEY BUILD THEIR HOUSE, AND THEY'RE ABLE TO FOR ALL PURPOSES BUILD IT ON THE LOT LINE IN THE FRONT YARD BECAUSE THE STEPS COME OFF THE PORCH TO THE LOT LINE.
WHAT THE FINE PEOPLE DO IS THEN THEY PUT PLANTS AND FLOWERS AND DECORATIONS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
>> THEY PUT THEIR SPRINKLER SYSTEM ON THE EDGE OF THE ROAD AND PRACTICALLY DARE YOU TO RUN OVER THEM.
IT'S LIKE, NO, THERE'S A PARK ON THERE.
YOU'RE OUT OF LUCK. BUT THIS HAS GOT TO STOP.
>> WELL, IT'S NOT JUST OLD TOWN.
>> IT'S EVERYWHERE. BECAUSE WHEN I WAS ON THE COMMISSION, I WENT TO TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE SIDEWALK THAT THEY WANTED TO PUT IN NEAR [INAUDIBLE] IN THAT SET OF STREETS SOMEWHERE.
ALMOST ALL THOSE HOUSES WERE AGAINST THE SIDEWALK, WHICH WAS FOR CHILDREN TO WALK TO SCHOOL.
THEY WERE AGAINST THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE THEY HAD PUT LANDSCAPING IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
NOW, WHAT THEY USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR BEING AGAINST IT WAS, IF I'M BACKING OUT MY CAR, I WON'T SEE A CHILD ON THE SIDEWALK, I'LL SEE THEM AT THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET.
YOU GET ARGUMENTS, [LAUGHTER] ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS FROM PEOPLE.
THAT'S ANOTHER CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
>> THERE'S REALLY PROBABLY NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT HERE.
DO THEY BRING THEIR LANDSCAPE PLANS AND SPRINKLER PLANS TO YOU BEFORE THEY DO? WHO GOES THROUGH THOSE?
>> I THINK THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT.
I HEAR YOU AND AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.
BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS THAT, WHO THEN MAINTAINS THE RIGHT OF WAY? I THINK FOR MOST PROPERTY OWNERS, THEY'VE TAKEN OWNERSHIP TO [OVERLAPPING]
>> AS OPPOSED TO, I'VE GOT A PROPERTY CAR STREET OUT FOR ME THAT DOES NOT MAINTAIN IT AND THEY GET FINED REGULARLY, AND THE CITY IS COMING BY AND CUTTING THE GRASS.
IF PROPERTY [NOISE] WEREN'T TAKING THEIR OWNERSHIP OF THAT AREA, THEN I THINK IT WOULD LOOK PRETTY BAD.
BUT AGREE, IRRIGATION SYSTEMS AND SHOULDN'T BE RIGHT THERE ON THE STREET.
>> BECAUSE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THE NEIGHBORS WILL LEAVE MORE VACANT LOTS AND PROPERTY AND RIGHT OF WAYS.
>> WE WOULD ONLY SEE LANDSCAPE PLANTS AT THE TIME OF PERMITTING.
OFTEN, PEOPLE WILL COME IN BY A HOME AND THEY DECIDE THEY WANT TO BEAUTIFY THAT SPACE, AND WE DON'T SEE PLANS COME IN FOR IT.
WE DON'T MONITOR WHAT PLANTS GO INTO THE GROUND AFTER PERMITTING IS COMPLETED.
ALTHOUGH IT IS REQUIRED THAT YOU GET IRRIGATION PERMITS, TO BE CLEAR, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT, AND SO WE NEVER SEE IT.
THE VERIFICATION OF THE PLACEMENT OF THAT IRRIGATION LINE NEVER HAPPENS.
>> THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER CODE ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
WE ALL LET THE COMMISSION KNOW HOW WE FEEL ABOUT ALL OF THAT.
ARE WE GOOD WITH COMING BACK TO THE NEXT MEETING? HAVING TO REVIEW THE GUIDELINES THAT WE ARE IN OUR BOOKS.
>> HOW MANY PAGES? SIXTY EIGHT? PIECE OF CAKE. [LAUGHTER]
>> WELL, YOU GOT A MONTH. [LAUGHTER]
[7. STAFF REPORT]
>> I WANTED TO KEEP THIS A LITTLE BIT SHORT, BUT KELLY INSISTED THAT I SHARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I'M UP TO LATELY.
[LAUGHTER] FIRST UP TO DISCUSS THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FOR PECK CENTER, I INCLUDED MY WORK PLAN IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET.
>> HOLD IT. DO YOU HAVE THE CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL?
[01:35:01]
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE?>> WORKING THROUGH THE NOMINATION.
THEN I DID SOME MORE ASKING AROUND AND LEARNING ABOUT THE HISTORICAL MARKER FOR DR. PEXOME.
I'M HEARING MORE AND MORE AND THIS IS PARTLY WHAT YOU TOLD ME, THAT HE WAS A VERY PRIVATE PERSON, AND HE JUST COMMANDED RESPECT, AND HE WAS VERY REMOTE, AUTHORITATIVE FIGURE SO THERE'S NOT A LOT THAT'S KNOWN ABOUT HIS PERSONAL LIFE.
YOU CAN ASK SOME OF THE ALUMNI AND ANNETTE MYERS IF THEY KNEW HIS WIFE'S NAME, AND I COULDN'T REALLY FIND HER NAME.
I KNOW A BIG PART ABOUT WHY YOU WANTED TO HAVE THE HISTORIC MARKER NEAR HIS HOME WAS TO HIGHLIGHT THE FACT THAT HIS WIFE BROUGHT IN TEACHERS AFTER HE PASSED AWAY AND HOUSED THEM, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY VERY HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT.
BUT HIS HOME IS MOVED, AND IT'S NOT ARCHITECTURALLY, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY OF ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY, IT'S BEEN BUTCHERED AND CHANGED A LOT.
THEN I ALSO FOUND OUT THAT THE THINGS CALLED FRED'S TREE NEAR FIRST LOVE WAS THE TREE THAT WAS IN HIS BACKYARD.
THAT MOVED SO I HAD AN IDEA THAT MAYBE A HISTORICAL MARKER COULD GO THERE.
BUT I'M ALSO THINKING THAT WITHIN THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION, THE DHR, THE DIVISION OF HISTORIC RESOURCES, ASKED ME TO INCLUDE CRITERIA B, WHICH DIRECTLY ADDRESSES DR. PECK'S CONNECTION TO PECK HIGH SCHOOL.
I INTEND TO FLUSH THAT OUT AND HAVE THAT DOCUMENTATION FOR THEM AS FAR AS I CAN.
I THINK THAT WILL GET AT THE HIGHLIGHTING THE HISTORY AND CALLING ATTENTION TO HIS SIGNIFICANCE THAT YOU'RE SEARCHING FOR.
THEN I ALSO HAD A BRIEF MEETING WITH OUR GRANTS MANAGER, AND WE TALKED ABOUT MAYBE A SMALL MATCHING GRANT FOR EXPANDING THE MUSEUM, MY BABY A SIGN OR TWO.
THAT TALKS ABOUT DR. PECK'S HOUSEHOLD IN THE MUSEUM THAT ALREADY EXISTS AT PECK CENTER.
INSTEAD OF GOING THE ROUTE WITH THE HISTORICAL MARKER FOR HIS HOME BECAUSE THAT MIGHT BE TOO MUCH WORK FOR ME THAN IT WOULD BE WORTH AT THE END.
>> HOW ABOUT IF YOU AND I GET TOGETHER AND I SHOW YOU SOME OF THE STUFF THAT I WAS DOING AT THE MUSEUM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL HELP OR HURT.
BUT LET'S GET TOGETHER ON THAT.
>> BUT THAT'S MY UPDATE FOR THE NOMINATION.
>> CAN I ASK YOU? YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE FRED'S TREE? DID YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH FRED'S TREE?
>> WELL, THAT TREE WAS IN DR. PECK'S BACKYARD.
>> [OVERLAPPING] RIGHT ACROSS FROM [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE CAN BE A LITTLE PLAQUE OR MARKER THERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH BANG FOR YOUR BUCK.
[OVERLAPPING] SOMETHING TO THE MUSEUM.
>> ONE QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BIRD, HARRIS?
>> IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS?
>> I DON'T KNOW. IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
>> WE CAN TALK ABOUT [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER]
>> THEN HAND IN HAND WITH THAT.
I WENT TO THE FLORIDA TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION [INAUDIBLE] DAY IN TALLAHASSEE, WHICH WAS A SUPER COOL EXPERIENCE.
I WAS RUNNING MY CITY FERNANDINA BEACH, SURE.
I HAD 15 MEETINGS WITH STATE LAWMAKERS, SO REPRESENTATIVES AND SENATORS.
I LED TO THE MEETINGS, ONE WITH REPRESENTATIVE DEAN BLACK AND ONE WITH SENATOR CLAY ARBOR, WHO ARE OUR REPRESENTATIVES, INTRODUCED MYSELF, HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLANNER.
THEY WERE ALL SUPER FAMILIAR WITH FERNANDINA BEACH AND ITS HISTORY AND IN FUTURE HISTORIC PRESERVATION PROJECTS.
I ALSO MET A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR THE FLORIDA TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION, SO EXPANDING MY NETWORK AND BEING ABLE TO REACH OUT TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND ASK THEM QUESTIONS WHERE I NEED HELP.
ALSO, THOSE ARE OUR PARTNERS FOR THE PALMS CONFERENCE.
I'VE BEEN KNOCKING ON THAT DOOR A LOT, TRYING TO GET THEM TO INVOLVE ME IN THEIR PLANNING OR PREPARATION BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF ENERGY, [LAUGHTER] AND I CAN HELP THEM.
BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE PROCESS THEY ARE IF THEY'RE COMFORTABLE TO INCLUDE ME OR IF THEY HAVEN'T HAD THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW.
I'VE MADE MYSELF AVAILABLE TO THEM ABOUT THREE OR FOUR TIMES NOW, SO I'M JUST WAITING ON THAT.
APPARENTLY, THEY DO A GIFT BACK EVENT AS PART OF THE CONFERENCE.
ADRIENE BURKE, I MESSAGED WITH HER A LITTLE BIT, WE HAVEN'T GOT ON THE PHONE YET.
BUT SHE WAS WANTING TO HELP ME WITH THE NOMINATION FOR PECK CENTER.
SHE AND HER GROUP ARE GOING TO COME IN AND DO SOME DRAWINGS AND UPDATED PHOTOGRAPHS FOR THAT.
I'VE ALSO ASKED THEM FOR HELP FOR ADDRESSING CRITERIA B BECAUSE A LOT OF CRITERIA A AND C HAVE ALREADY BEEN FLASHED OUT.
CRITERIA B IS STILL A LITTLE FUZZY, SO I WOULD LIKE SOME PROFESSIONAL.
>> I THINK THAT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE HE WAS SUCH A PRIVATE PERSON.
EVEN WHEN HIS GRANDDAUGHTER CAME HERE TO VISIT, SHE DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HIM.
[01:40:02]
BUT I THINK WE CAN ALWAYS USE THE GREAT FLORIDIANS.>> I THINK INCLUDING THAT IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER WOULD BE A WAY TO HONOR AND ENSHRINE THAT HISTORY IN THE HISTORY AT PECK CENTER.
WE HAVE OUR WINDOW PRESERVATION WORKSHOP ON MAY 16.
I BELIEVE I SENT OUT THIS FLYER TO YOU GUYS TO DISSEMINATE TO PEOPLE WHO YOU KNOW MIGHT BE INTERESTED.
I HAVE IN MY NOTES THAT I'M GOING TO INVITE THE TRINITY PARSONAGE FOLKS TO COME IN.
IT'S A FREE WORKSHOP FROM 9-4.
I THINK WE HAVE ATTENDANCE AT 16 PEOPLE, WHICH I WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT'S NOT ON SPACES.
BUT THEN SOME PEOPLE TOLD ME THAT THEY ONLY HAD A COUPLE OF ATTENDEES LAST TIME, AND I'M LIKE, I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE A PACKED HOUSE.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO CAN LEARN FROM THIS, ESPECIALLY THE FREE WORKSHOP WITH FREE LUNCH.
>> WELL, YOU GO OUT THERE WITH A SANDWICH BOARD.
>> FREE LUNCH. JUST COME FOR THAT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THE SECOND HALF, I THINK IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT TOURING.
WHAT'S THE TOUR? WHAT PROPERTIES? WHERE ARE YOU GOING?
MAYBE NOT THE WHOLE SECOND HALF WILL BE A SITE VISIT.
WHAT'S HIS FIRST NAME? DOUG ROBBY.
HE WORKED ACROSS IN HISTORICAL.
I THINK IF WE JUST DO A STROLL DOWNTOWN, YOU'D BE LIKE [OVERLAPPING]
>> WALK AROUND THE PARSONAGE AT TRENA, AND THEN THE FIRST PRESS.
>> GOT TO. IS THIS GOING TO BE RECORDED OR AVAILABLE ONLINE FOR THE FUTURE? NINE TO FOUR IS A BIG COMMITMENT, PROBABLY FOR ANYONE AND CERTAINLY A CONTRACTOR, OR WHOEVER.
I'M JUST WONDERING IT WOULD BE GREAT IF IT CAN'T BE RECORDED.
>> NO, BUT HE DOES HAVE A LOT OF YOUTUBE VIDEOS AVAILABLE ONLINE AND RESOURCES THAT HE WILL PROVIDE.
THEN HE DOES OFFER THINGS THAT PURGES THAT HELPS IT GO STEP BY STEP ON EACH OF THE DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES THROUGH AUSTIN HISTORICAL.
THAT IS AN OPTION IF YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO ATTEND.
THERE IS A WAY TO ACCESS SOME OF THE RESOURCES THAT YOU CAN GET AFTER ATTENDING THE TRAINING.
>> MAYBE WE PROVIDE THE LINKS AND THE GUIDELINE DOCUMENT.
BUT TO HIS YOUTUBE STUFF THAT'S FREE.
>> WE HAVE A CONSULTANT, TERRACON, WRITING THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FOR BASELO CEMETERY.
WE HAD A MEETING WITH THEM TO DISCUSS SOME QUESTIONS AND HOLES THAT THEY HAVE IN THEIR NOMINATION, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE A VERY GOOD FIRST DRAFT THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET MID WEEK NEXT WEEK.
I'M NOT SURE IF I CAN SHARE THAT WITH THIS GROUP.
>> WE'RE GOING TO CHECK OUT THE DRAFT AND I'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT IS.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT OR WANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT IT, I'M HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
THEN LAST THING WAS THE NORTH FLORIDA REGIONAL COUNCIL HAD A SHRIMPING INDUSTRY LISTENING SESSION HERE WHEN I FIRST STARTED, AND I WENT TO THAT AND THEN AT THE END OF THAT MEETING THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE FIRED UP AND READY TO GO WITH IT.
I KNOW THE REGIONAL COUNCIL HAD A COUPLE OF OTHER LISTENING SESSIONS THEY WERE GOING TO.
IN THE AGENDA IS A LINK TO THEIR MEETING WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE RESULTS AND WHAT THEY LEARNED.
BUT THERE WAS A GROUP IN FERNANDINA BEACH WHO HAD THEIR WHEELS ALREADY IN MOTION.
I PUT TOGETHER IN THE AGENDA PACKAGE AS WELL, A GROUP OF CASE STUDIES, MODELS FOR OUR CULTURAL PRESERVATION, SOME EXAMPLES OF STAKEHOLDERS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE INVOLVED.
I JUST SAT DOWN WITH THESE THREE LADIES AND GAVE THEM THE INFORMATION.
I SAY, REALLY I THINK IT NEEDS TO COME FROM THE COMMUNITY.
I'LL BE HERE AS A RESOURCE AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLANNER AND A CONTACT FOR THE CITY, BUT I THINK IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE A COMMUNITY-DRIVEN THING, ESPECIALLY SINCE I'M NOT FROM HERE, IT'S NOT MY CULTURAL HERITAGE.
I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE BEING AN ADVOCATE FOR IT, WHEREAS THESE PEOPLE MIGHT MORE.
I ENCOURAGE THEM TO KEEP GOING AND TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT IT AND PLEASE DO IT, AND ASK ME.
>> YOU'VE BEEN BUSY. THANK YOU.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ANYBODY? IS EVERYBODY GOOD? I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS, SO MEETING ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.