[1. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:09] WELCOME TO OUR FERNANDINA BEACH CITY 4TH WORKSHOP. WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT OUR GOLF COURSE -- WOULD BE THE BEST POTENTIAL AVENUE TO GO. SO IF WE CAN PLEASE HAVE COAL ROLLER? >> MAYOR ANTUN? >> HERE. >> VICE-MAYOR >> COMMISSIONER TUTEN? >> HERE. >> WE ALL HAVE OUR -- >>I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. >> SO WE'LL BEGIN WITH A [5.1 GOLF CLUB - The City Commission, at their December 3, 2024, Workshop, directed staff to place this matter on their March 4, 2025, Workshop agenda for discussion related to the Golf Club operations] PRESENTATION. I ASSUME MR. BIGGERS WILL BE LEADING US, OR MR. GLISAN? AND THEN WE'LL GO INTO SOME COMMISSION DISCUSSION AND SEE WHERE WE LAND. TAKETH AWAY. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. THE CITY COMMISSION -- DECEMBER 3RD MEETING COMPILED A LIST OF TOPICS TO TALK ABOUT UPCOMING WORKSHOPS. THE, THE GOLF COURSE WAS PLACED ON THAT, THAT MATTER WAS PLACED ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS MARCH 4TH MEETING, SO HERE WE ARE TO TALK ABOUT, TAKE A LITTLE BIT DEEPER DIVE THAT HE WOULD HAVE THE TIME TO DO IN A REGULAR MEETING INTO THE OPERATIONS OF THE GOLF COURSE. SO THIS WORKSHOP FOR THE FRONT NEW BEACH GOLF COURSE, TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THEIR OPERATIONS ON THE AND FIRST OF ALL, WE NEED TO DIVE IN A LITTLE BIT -- WHY IS THIS A CONVERSATION THAT WILL HAPPEN NOW? A LITTLE HISTORY. 1990S, EARLY 2000, THE GOLF COURSE WAS A THRIVING ENTERPRISE FUND, AND ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE GENERAL FUND. 2002, THEY CONSTRUCTED A NEW ONE POINT MILLION DOLLAR CLUB HOUSE. IT'S THE CLUBHOUSE THAT YOU SEE THERE NOW. A FEW YEARS LATER, THEY CONSTRUCT A NEW MILLION DOLLAR PLUS IRRIGATION SYSTEM. THE RECESSION HAPPENED, AND BY 2008, THE GOLF COURSE WAS UNPROFITABLE. A YEAR OR TWO LATER, -- GOLF COURSES OUTSOURCED. FIRST TO BILLY CASPER, AND NOW IT WAS BOUGHT UP -- THAT COST ABOUT $100,000 A YEAR OVER THAT TWO YEAR PERIOD IN 2021, THE CITY CONSTRUCTED A NEW DRIVING RANCH FACILITY -- TOP TRACER, IN AN EFFORT TO RESURRECT THE REVENUES WITH THE GOLF COURSE. BROUGHT MANAGEMENT BACK IN THE HOUSE, COVID. IT WAS DELAYED THAT THAT WAS INCURRED DURING THAT TIME, AND THOSE NOTED AND NEEDED TO INVEST MORE MONEY INTO THE COURSE, NAMELY IN A $250,000 IRRIGATION SYSTEM, REPLACING THE GOLF COURSE COMPLETE, AND ALL OF THAT BROUGHT UP THE TRANSFER OF $890,000 TO THE GOLF COURSE TO FUND THEIR OPERATIONS. MANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE TOP OF DISCUSSION LAST BUDGET WORKSHOP FOR THIS BUDGET YEAR THAT WE'RE IN. $809,000 WAS PLEDGED TO DO THAT, AND A MONTHLY TRANSFER FROM THE GENERAL FUND TO THE GOLF COURSE FUND OCCURS TO COVER THOSE NEEDS. WE ARE NOT UNIQUE HERE. THIS -- ON THE SCREEN IS THE U.S. GOLF COURSE SUPPLY. AS YOU CAN SEE, COURSES CONTINUE TO RISE. THIS IS FROM 1987 TO 2023. AND AROUND RECESSION, KNOWN AS A DWINDLING SUPPLY OF GOLF COURSES NATIONWIDE. A DWINDLING SUPPLY, ABOUT 100 COURSES PER YEAR. YOU CAN SEE HOW, IN THE LATEST YEAR, 2023, THAT, THOSE CLOSURES HAVE IMPROVED . IN A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT HAS IMPROVED AS IN AREAS WHERE MUNICIPAL COURSES HAVE BOUGHT OUT PRIVATE COURSES FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONSERVATION OR TO HAVE THAT EXTRA LAND INVENTORY. IT HAPPENED A FEW TIMES IN FLORIDA. BUT THIS IS, THIS IS THE U.S. GOLF SUPPLY. YOU CAN SEE THAT SWING THERE, AS GOLF HAS DWINDLED IN POPULARITY, TO A FAST, FASTER PACED PLAY, MOVING ONLINE TO ELECTRONIC PLATFORM, OR TO, AS OTHER SPORTS HAVE RISEN IN POPULARITY, PICKLE BALL, FOR EXAMPLE, AND SPORTS DO THAT. THE EBB AND FLOW. BUT THIS IS JUST EXAMPLES SHOWING THE U.S. GOLF SOURCE APPLIED AT ABOUT 15,000 COURSES. YOU CAN SEE HOW THAT'S CHANGED IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. 40 YEARS. WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME RECENT SUCCESSES AND CHALLENGES AT THE GOLF COURSE. WITH THE COMMISSION SUPPORTING ADDING MORE FUNDING TO THE GOLF COURSE, THERE'S BEEN A RECENT INFLUX OF EQUIPMENT, SOME MUCH-NEEDED EQUIPMENT THAT WE PUT THE GOLF COURSE ON A QUICK ROTATION PLAN SO WE'RE NOT RUNNING TILL FAIL. THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. WHEN YOU RUN YOUR EQUIPMENT YOU FAILURE, AND I'M PUTTING A LOT OF MONEY UNTIL ONE EQUIPMENT, AT THE END OF THAT YOU REPAIR -- THE RESULT HAS BEEN IMMEDIATE, AND THERE'S BEEN IMPROVED COURSE CONDITIONS THAT YOU WILL HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND COMMUNITIES RECOGNIZED JUST WITHIN THE LAST FEW MONTHS. ANOTHER RECENT SUCCESS AND CHALLENGE, REALLY, WAS THE DRIVING RANGE WAS NEAR THE END OF ITS LIFE. HURRICANE HELENE SAYS YOU'RE DONE, AND THAT, OUR POLES CAME DOWN. FORTUNATE [00:05:03] INSURANCE COVERED A CLAIM. WE WORKED WITH FPU, AND THAT DRIVING RANGE AND A NEW NETTING SYSTEM WILL BE OPEN. WE HAD A LOSS OF REVENUE THERE, AND INSURANCE HAS COVERED A PORTION OF THAT. BUT YOU'LL SEE IN THE UPCOMING FINANCIAL LOOK THAT THE SPIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S BEEN A ZERO DOLLARS THIS YEAR AND DRIVING RANGE REVENUE, WHICH IS A, A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF REVENUE FOR THE GOLF COURSE. VERY RECENT DEVELOPMENT IS THE PLAYER DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM. SCOTT WOMBLE, WHO'S -- THIS EVENING, HAS BROUGHT IN A NEW INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, GOLF LISTEN CLINIC. SHE IS A LEAD GOLF INSTRUCTOR AT CLEMSON UNIVERSITY GOLF CLASSES, AND WORKING WITH AN 820 SPLIT TO BRING, HAVE MORE GOLF CLINICS, INDIVIDUAL INSTRUCTION BACK TO THE GOLF COURSE, IMPROVE REVENUE, AND POPULARITY OF THE SPORT HERE. AS I MENTIONED, THERE IS, HAS BEEN AN INCREASE OF REVENUES. YOU WILL SEE THE, BARELY, BUT YOU WILL SEE IN THE GREEN THIS YEAR, 2024, AND THAT'S THE GOLF COURSE ROUNDS, THE SECOND COLUMN IS THE PRO SHOP, FOOD AND BEVERAGE, MEMBERSHIPS, DRIVING RANGE, THAT IS WHERE THE GREEN IS MISSING, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD NO DRIVING RANGE REVENUE THIS YEAR, AND THEN TOTAL REVENUE, WE ARE HIGHER THAN WE WERE IN 2022. SO EXPENSES CONTINUE TO RISE, BUT REVENUE HAS INCREASED, AND WE LOOK FOR ABOUT, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S EXCEEDED WHERE WE'VE BEEN. ONLY POSITIVE IS THAT REVENUE ON ALL FRONTS CONTINUE TO GROW. HERE THEY DIVE INTO THOSE NUMBERS A LITTLE BIT. AS YOU CAN SEE, 2022 -- 750,000. 2024, $871,000. AND THAT'S WITH PROJECTED, AND THAT'S WITH ZERO DOLLARS IN DRIVING RANGE REVENUE. SOME UPCOMING CHALLENGES. WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE UGLY STUFF. WE'RE UP ON ONE PRIMARY SOURCE OF WATER. THAT LARGE POND ON THE WEST COURSE, THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING SUPPLIED BY ONE WELL, AND THAT'S NOT A HEALTHY WAY TO MOVE FORWARD. YOU LOSE THAT WELL, YOU LOSE , YOU LOSE YOUR ADDITION TO THAT GOLF COURSE, YOU'LL DRAIN THAT POND VERY QUICKLY. WE HAVE THREE BATHROOMS THERE THAT ARE STILL ON SEPTIC. EXPENDITURES, THE HARSH REALITY IS EXPENDITURES CONTINUE TO RECEIVE REVENUES. THERE'S BEEN IMPROVEMENTS, BUT THE COST OF GOODS, FERTILIZER, EQUIPMENT FUEL, STAYS HIGH. AND WHILE REVENUES HAVE IMPROVED, THE EXPENSES HAVE NOT. WE HAVE RISING COSTS, AND THEN WE HAVE AN UPCOMING IRRIGATION SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO, WE WILL NEED TO REPLACE, AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE THE COMPETING GOLFERS. SO AS WE DIVE INTO, STAFF DIVED INTO THIS LITTLE BIT FURTHER AT THE REQUEST OF THE COMMISSION, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH. BUSINESS VERSUS AMENITY. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE COMMISSION NEEDS TO TAKE A LOOK AT. AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE DATA, THE GOLF COURSE IS, IS NO LONGER, YOU KNOW, COUNTRYWIDE, MUNICIPAL LIGHT, A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS MODEL. NUMBER OF CITIES. RIGHT HERE. ST. JOHNS COUNTY , OCALA, LAKELAND, MANY CITIES THAT ARE IN THE SAME POSITION WE ARE, THEY'RE NOT MAKING MONEY. WE'VE COLLABORATED WITH NEIGHBORING MUNICIPAL GOLF COURSES. AMELIA RIVER, CREATED COMPETITION. WE, THE CITY , LEASED OUT AMELIA RIVER, AND THEN THAT COURSE IS A DIRECT COMPETITION TO US. THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED. WE BROUGHT IN TOP TRACER AS A, AN ATTEMPT TO BRING MORE LIFE INTO THE GOLF COURSE,AND WE'VE RAN IT, AND WE'VE MARKETED IT, AND IT'S NOT PROVIDING THE, THE REVENUE THAT STAFF HAD HOPED, AND WE'RE RECOMMENDING TO REMOVE THAT SERVICE. TOP TRACER, TO REMOVE THAT, THAT SYSTEM FOR ADDITIONAL $80-$100,000 POSITIVE REVENUE. WE'LL BE LOWERING EXPENSES AND THE INCREASED REVENUE DUE TO DRIVING RANGE PLAY. SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION. THIS AREA IS ZONED RECREATION. IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE WOULD WANT TO SELL OR DEVELOP. AND, AND THERE'S INTEREST, THERE'S A CONVERSATION THAT NEEDS TO BE HAD ABOUT INVESTING IN CALLS BY ADDING AMENITIES TO A DROPPED PLAY AT THE GOLF COURSE. AND THEN, OF COURSE, WE HAVE TO DIVE INTO THE REDUCTION FROM 27 TO 18 HOLES. YOU'RE LOOKING AT ESTIMATED 125,000, MINUS, DEPENDING ON WHAT 90 WOULD CLOSE, OF REDUCTION EXPENSES. BUT ON THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED IS, WHAT YOU DO TO THE OTHER NINE? THEY'RE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT BOUGHT ON THE COURSE. THEY BOUGHT ON THE COURSE BECAUSE IT'S A GOLF COURSE. THERE'S IMPACTS TO THAT. WITH THAT NINE, YOU LET IT GROW. DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU DO WITH THAT NINE DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH THAT REDUCTION AND COST WOULD BE. SO, I MEAN, FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, A SHORT-TERM CONSIDERATION IS TO TERMINATE THE AGREEMENT WITH TOP TRACER, WHICH WILL WORK ON, IT WILL PROVIDE INCREASED DRIVING ROOM PLAY, INCREASED DRIVING RANGE PLAY, IMPLEMENT A DRIVING RANGE AUTOMATION SYSTEM. WE RECENTLY TOURED JAX BEACH GOLF COURSE, AND THEY'VE HAD A LOT OF, A LOT OF LUCK, A LOT OF PROGRESS WITH THEIR DRIVING RANGE, AND THEY'RE NETTING $500,000 A YEAR IN REVENUE. WE KNOW THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE ABLE TO DO, BUT AN AUTOMATED SYSTEM IS SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO COME AND GO AND NOT CHECK IN. YOU GO THERE, GET YOUR BALLS HIT, AND [00:10:05] YOU COULD EXTEND YOUR HOURS ON THE DRIVING RANGE. BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT POSITIVE IMPACT OF $80,000-$100,000 A YEAR. FOR LONG-TERM CONSIDERATIONS, RECOGNIZE THAT AS THE RECLAIM SYSTEM COMES IN PLACE DOWN THE ROAD DUE TO STATE STATUE AS IT PERTAINS TO OUR WASTEWATER SYSTEM, YOU NEED A PLACE TO GET RID OF THAT WATER. A LOT OF IT. AND HAVING GOLF COURSES IS, IS THE ONLY REAL WAY THAT YOU CAN GET RID OF A LOT OF THAT WATER. THAT SYSTEM'S GOING TO BE COMING ONLINE -- PROVIDED A LOT OF INFORMATION ON THAT, RECENT WORKSHOPS, AND THE VISIONING SESSION IS, IS YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLACE TO GET RID OF THAT WATER. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THERE'S ALWAYS THE, AS THE COMMUNITY GROWS, THE NEED TO REPLACE OUR RECREATION FACILITIES AT SOME POINT, AND, AND YOU HAVE THE REAL ESTATE THERE THAT'S AVAILABLE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT. SO THESE ARE LONGTIME, LONG-TERM CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE RECOGNIZE, AND, OF COURSE, WE NOW TURN OVER TO YOU, COMMISSIONERS, FOR ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS. WE HAVE PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR SCOTT MICHELSON HERE, ALONG WITH JEFFREY BIGGERS, THE GOLF MANAGER, TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE OPERATIONS OF THE GOLF COURSE. THANK YOU, MAYOR. THE NEXT THANK YOU, MR. GLISAN. SO WE'LL OPEN IT UP FOR ANY COMMISSION OR QUESTION FOR MR. GLISAN. OR ANY DISCUSSION AS FAR AS SOME OF THE PROPOSALS THAT WE HAVE ON THE STREET HERE. I SEE COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. >> SO I, I HAVE A QUESTION. SO ABOUT TOP TRACER, WE JUST CAN CANCEL THAT CONTRACT WITH 90 DAYS NOTICE, RIGHT? SO -- SOMEBODY, SOMEBODY -- >> SCOTT MICHELSON, PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR. YES, SO FEBRUARY OF 2026, WE HAVE TO GIVE HIM A BY THAT TIMEFRAME, WE HAD TO GIVE A 90 DAY NOTICE PRIOR TO THAT TO CANCEL IT. >> WHAT DID WE GIVE THE 90 DAY NOTICE NOW? I MEAN -- >> I THINK -- >> WE'RE PAYING THEM SO MUCH MONEY EVERY MONTH, AND WE'RE NOT USING THE PRODUCT. >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> SO CAN WE NOT GET OUT OF IT BEFORE FEBRUARY 26? >> SO I BELIEVE THE WAY THE CONTRACT IS IS WE ARE TIED IN THROUGH FEBRUARY OF 2026. >> OKAY. >> AND IT DOES STATE THAT YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE THAT 90 DAY ADVANCE NOTICE TO GET OUT OF IT. SO WE ARE, STAFF IS PREPARED, AND HAVE A LETTER DRAFTED, OBVIOUSLY, LEGAL WOULD HAVE TO REVIEW THAT, BUT WE ARE PREPARED TO HAVE THAT READY. >> OKAY. SO MY OTHER QUESTION IS, WITH THIS RECLAIMED WATER PROJECT, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT WITH THE WELL THAT YOU'RE USING TODAY TO GENERATE, I MEAN, WILL YOU STILL NEED THE WELL? >> YEAH, SO, SO ULTIMATELY THE RECLAIMED WATER WOULD BE OUR PRIMARY SOURCE OF WATER, AND THEN WE WOULD REQUIRE AN ADDITIONAL WELL ON-SITE AS, AS A BACKUP. WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE TO USE IT, BUT OBVIOUSLY IF SOMETHING HAPPENS WITH THE RECLAIMED WATER, OR IT, IT WILL ALLOW, EVERY GOLF COURSE HAS TWO, TWO SOURCES. >> SO WHEN YOU SAY, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A NEW WELL? BECAUSE EARLIER WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU NEED TO REPLACE THE PUMP. >> YEAH, SO THE -- >> SO THAT IS THE WELL YOU WHAT -- >> KNOW, SO THE PUMP IS ACTUALLY FOR THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM. THAT WAS THE $250,000 THAT WAS, THAT WAS SPENT LAST YEAR'S BUDGET. SO THAT WAS FOR THE IRRIGATION. THAT'S THE PUMP TO GET THE WATER OUT ONTO THE COURSE. SO CURRENTLY, WE HAVE ONE WELL THAT IS OPERATING AT THE GOLF COURSES, AND IT'S A 12 INCH WELL. IF WE HAVE , AND WE'RE WORKING ON THIS CURRENTLY, IF WE HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT, ESPECIALLY IN THE HEAT OF THE SUMMER, WE HAVE MAJOR ISSUES. SO WE WILL BE WORKING ON, THERE'S ACTUALLY THREE WELDS ON THE GOLF COURSE. BUT WE'RE SCARED WE'RE, WE'RE HESITANT TO PULL THE EXISTING WELL BECAUSE THERE'S SOME NOISE GOING ON IN THE WELL. SO IF WE PULL IT, WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT. SO WE ARE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT A ONE OTHER WELL THAT IS ON THE GOLF COURSE, AND SEEING HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST TO GET THAT UP AND OPERATING. BEFORE WE WOULD PULL OUR LARGE WELL. >> OKAY, BUT ON AN EARLIER SLIDE, YOU HAD A PRICE FOR, LIKE YOU SAID, THERE WAS A WELLHEAD THAT NEEDED TO BE REPLACED, RIGHT? LIKE ON ONE OF THE VERY FIRST SLIDES? >> ARE YOU REFERENCING THAT ONE? ABOUT REPLACING THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM AND WELL REHABILITATION, WHICH IS WHAT SCOTT WAS JUST MENTIONING? >> OKAY. >> YEAH, SO THE PUMP IS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE WELL. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >> IF WE COULD, SO YOU HAVE A DEEP WELL, 750 FOOT 12 INCH DEEP WELL. AND THAT PULLS WATER OUT AND PUMPED INTO A POND. THAT POND IS YOUR INVENTORY. AND THEN AS YOU NEED WATER, YOU'RE PULLING FROM THAT POND THROUGH THAT NEW IRRIGATION SYSTEM, EXCUSE ME, IRRIGATION POND, NEW IRRIGATION PUMP THAT WE JUST [00:15:01] BOUGHT, AND THAT SENDS IT OUT TO ALL THREE COURSES. >> SO IS THAT THE, IS THAT THEY, THE POND ON NORTH OR THE POND ON SOUTH? >> SO THAT WOULD BE THE MAC POND ON NORTH NINE, OR, OR NORTH -- >> RIGHT. RIGHT. >> RIGHT THERE BY THE PUMP HOUSE. >> OKAY. RIGHT. SO WHAT ABOUT THE POND OVER ON SOUTH? IS IT JUST A POND, OR IS IT WELL DRIVEN? >> SO THAT'S JUST A POND. >> OKAY. BECAUSE Y'ALL DUG IT OUT A COUPLE YEARS, SEVERAL YEARS AGO, MADE IT A LOT BIGGER. >> SO THERE WAS, MANY YEARS AGO, THERE WAS THREE WELDS. EACH WELL WAS FOR EACH NINE-HOLE GOLF, NINE HOLES OF GOLF. WHEN THEY RECONFIGURED THE EXISTING IRRIGATION SYSTEM, THEY WENT OFF THE ONE 12 INCH WELL. >> OKAY. OKAY. NOT RIGHT NOW. >> SO, TO THE POINT THAT YOU HAD SAID PRIOR, WE'RE USE TO MOST COURSES RUNNING ON TWO WELLS. WE'RE CURRENTLY BASICALLY JUST KIND OF BARE BONES AS FAR AS WELL UTILIZATION IS GOING. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? >> YES SIR. >> OKAY. COMMISSIONER TUTEN? >> OKAY, AND SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, THERE'S ANDRES WATER RECLAIM -- WE HAVE TO DO THAT BY 2032, BUT HE'S NOT, THEY DON'T ANTICIPATE GETTING THAT, THAT WATER OUT THERE. NOT TILL ALMOST, RIGHT, AT, AT THAT TIME. OKAY. SO, SO YOU NEED TO EXPLORE ANOTHER WELL TO HAVE A BACKUP WELL. >> THAT IS CORRECT. YES. AND WE ARE LOOKING AT THE COST AND WHAT IS MOST ECONOMICAL FOR, FOR THE GOLF COURSE. >> AND THAT WOULD BE IN THE NEW BUDGET. THAT'S NOT BUDGETED NOW. >> THAT IS NOT BUDGETED RIGHT NOW. >> OKAY. >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER? >> YEAH, I, I THOUGHT YEARS AGO WHEN MANFRED WAS STANDING UP HERE TALKING THAT THEY, WHEN THEY DID THE WATER SYSTEM, THAT THEY RAN -- THEY RAN IT THROUGH THE GOLF COURSE. HE JUST NEVER HOOKED IT UP. SO -- >> THAT IS CORRECT, AND IT'S VERY CLOSE. WE WOULD HAVE TO DO SOME ADDITIONAL WORK TO GET THE, YES, TO GET IT. IT'S CLOSE BY THOUGH, YES. >> SO WHY WOULDN'T WE GO AHEAD AND DO THAT INSTEAD OF RIGHT AWAY INSTEAD OF WAITING UNTIL 2032 OR WHATEVER? >> I DON'T THINK ANDRE IS PREPARED TO DO, AND MAYBE, I DON'T THINK ANDRES PREPARED TO DO THE RECLAIMED WATER AT THIS TIME >> YEAH, THIS IS FOR RECLAIMED WATER, AS FAR AS THE WASTEWATER SYSTEM. SO, I MEAN, YOU COULD HOOK UP THE PIPE, BUT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO PUT THROUGH FOR A FEW YEARS. >> HOW MANY YEARS IS THAT? >> FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS. 2032. >> OKAY. >> BECAUSE THAT, YEAH, THAT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT, IF WE COULD DO THAT NOW. >> I'M CURIOUS, SINCE WE'VE LOOKED AT, IF WE WERE TO REMOVE TOP -- EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE TO WAIT A YEAR FOR THAT, AND THEN THE SAVINGS IS ESTIMATED TO BE 120 5K DOLLARS IF WE WERE TO CLOSE NINE, WHERE WOULD THE 200 TO 220 5K SAVINGS PUT US AS FAR AS BREAKEVEN, OR ARE WE STILL 250 K IN THE HOLE WITH OPERATING EXPENSES? WHAT ARE THOSE NUMBERS? >> I WOULD SAY THAT WE WOULD STILL BE IN THE NEGATIVE. >> I HOW MUCH? >> SO A, A CHALLENGE IN THIS CONVERSATION IS THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR YEARS, THE GOLF COURSE WAS NEGLECTED . LET'S BE PERFECTLY CLEAR HERE. IT WAS NEGLECTED, BARE-BONES. SO IT'S LIKE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT INVESTING BACK INTO YOUR COURSE, THAT COSTS MONEY. WE SPENT $417,000 ON EQUIPMENT THIS YEAR. THIS IS WHAT IS NEEDED TO MAINTAIN A COURSE. YES, IT'S REFLECTED IN COURSE CONDITIONS, BUT IT'S LIKE, WHEN YOU SAY, YES, WE'RE CONTINUING TO IMPROVE REVENUE AND LOWER THE EXPENSES, WHAT THAT WHAT GOT US INTO THE SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHERE YOU CONTINUE TO CUT, CUT, CUT, YOU NEED EQUIPMENT. YOU NEED A WELL. HOW DID YOU GET TO A POSITION WHERE WE HAD ONE 22-YEAR-OLD IRRIGATION PUMP SYSTEM THAT WAS LIMPING ON ONE PUMP IS, IS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF INVESTMENT INTO THE COURSE. SO I'D BE WILLING TO SAY, YES, WE CAN CUT THAT GAP DOWN, BUT WE STILL HAVE A ROBUST EQUIPMENT, FIVE-YEAR EQUIPMENT PLAN TO INVEST INTO THE COURSE TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T GET INTO THIS RUN TILL FAIL MODEL AGAIN. >> WHICH I THINK, AND I'LL GET TO YOU IN JUST ONE MOMENT, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW, THIS LEAVES THE COMMISSION, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, WITH A CHOICE. DO WE LEAN INTO THE GOLF COURSE THAT LEADS INTO AN AMENITY TO BECOME PROFITABLE? WHICH I'M NOT OPPOSED TO. WE JUST NEED TO DETERMINE WHAT IS GOING TO BE. OR DO WE DECIDE WE HAVE TO KIND OF DRIVE STRATEGIES OVER THE NEXT THREE TO FIVE OR 10 YEARS, AND WHETHER THIS CAN BECOME PROFITABLE AND HOW. SO WITH THAT, I'LL LET COMMISSIONER MINSHEW HAVE IT, AND THEN COMMISSIONER POYNTER. >> SO WHAT I, WHAT I, WHAT I THINK WE NEED TO SEE IS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, SOME, SOME LONG-TERM BUSINESS CASES THAT SAY, OKAY, WHAT ARE THE [00:20:04] MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENTS OUT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS? WHAT ARE THE EQUIPMENT OUT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS? SO WHAT YOU WOULD DO, AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU NEED TO GET SOME OF SOMEBODY IN TO HELP US DO THIS THE FIRST TIME, BUT YOU CREATE A BASELINE CASE, RIGHT, THAT SAID THIS IS STATUS QUO. SO BASED ON HAVING THREE COURSES. AND BASED ON, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY HUGE CHANGES , WHAT DOES, WHAT DOES THE 10 YEAR LOOK LIKE? WHAT DOES REVENUE LOOK LIKE, WHAT IS EXPENSES LOOK LIKE? WHERE'S THE DELTA, RIGHT? THEN YOU CAN COME IN AND LAY ON TOP OF THAT SOME SCENARIO PLANNING THAT SAYS, OKAY, WHAT IF WE CLOSED NINE HOLES? THEN WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE 10 YEAR VIEW, OR THE 15 YEAR VIEW, OR WHATEVER LONGVIEW YOU WANT TO DO? AND THEN THE NEXT ONE WOULD SAY, OKAY, THE NEXT SCENARIO SAYS, OKAY, WHAT IF WE DO THIS BIG THING WHERE WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE NINE HOLES AND CREATE A BIG RECREATION CENTER THERE AND PUT IN PICKLEBALL AND TENNIS AND OLYMPIC SWIMMING POOL AND CLOSE LERACH CENTERS? I MEAN, SO, IF YOU THINK, SO YOU NEED TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT IT AS AN AERIAL PLANNING, RIGHT? AND SAY, SO HERE'S OUR, IF WE DO NOTHING, HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. AND THEN IF WE DO SOMETHING, HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. AND THEN IF WE DO SOMETHING MORE, HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. BECAUSE THEN THAT GIVES US AND YOU, STAFF, THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS ON. AND THEN WHAT THE PLAN LOOKS LIKE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT, RIGHT? AND THEN YOU'VE GOT A CASE THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY TRACK YOUR PLAN AGAINST TO SEE HOW WELL YOU'RE MEETING THOSE, YOU KNOW, THOSE BENCHMARKS, OR THOSE OBJECTIVES. AND THAT LETS YOU GET THINGS OVER A MULTIYEAR COURSE, AND THEORETICALLY OVER MULTIPLE COMMISSIONS, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THIS LONG-TERM PLAN. SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD CHALLENGE THE STAFF TO START DIGGING ABOUT IT THAT WAY. I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE THE SKILL SETS OR THE TRAINING TO DO IT, BUT PEOPLE LIKE STAN TECH DO, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LOTS OF COMPANIES YOU CAN BRING IN TO HELP YOU CREATE SOME BUSINESS CASES AND SOME LONG-TERM PLANNING. AND THIS PROBABLY ISN'T THE ONLY PROJECT THAT WE NEED TO DO THAT ON, BUT TO ME, THAT'S THE APPROACH WE NEED TO TAKE ON SOME OF THESE LONG-TERM BIG PROJECTS. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW. COMMISSIONER POYNTER? >> YEAH, I'VE BEEN HERE A WHILE AND HEARD LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE CITY GOLF COURSE. BY CONTINUING TO DO EVERYTHING LIKE WE'VE BEEN DOING, WE'RE GOING TO GET THE SAME RESULTS. IN THE SAME RESULT IS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY MONEY ON THIS, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO LOSE MONEY, AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO COST THE CITY RESIDENTS MONEY. I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A BOLD APPROACH MOVING FORWARD. WE'VE GOT TWO FAILING RECREATION CENTERS NOW. THE REC CENTERS, WHICH IS BUILT IN THE FLOODPLAIN, WHICH IS 70, 80 YEARS OLD, AND IT'S JUST BEEN COBBLED TOGETHER. AND WE'VE GOT A 27 HOLE GOLF COURSE THAT'S ZONED RECREATION THAT WE DON'T NEED 27 HOLES . I MEAN, ALL THE GOLF COURSES AROUND NOW, NO ONE'S BUILDING A 27 HOLE GOLF COURSE. SO WHEN YOU DO WITH THE OTHER NINE HOLES? WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE FOR CONSIDERATION THEY CAN BUY IN AND THEN INSTRUCT THE CITY STAFF, AND, AND SARAH, AND PARTICULARLY, THAT WE LOOK AT POTENTIALLY CLOSING THE ATLANTIC REC CENTER AND BUILDING A NEW RECREATION FACILITY, ALL INCLUSIVE AT THE GOLF COURSE, WHERE YOU DO YOUR PICKLEBALL, YOU DO YOUR GOLF COURSE, YOU DO YOUR SWIMMING POOL, AND THEN YOU HAVE MEMBERSHIPS. AND BY DOING THIS THING AND CREATING, CREATING PEOPLE COMING TO A FACILITY, YOU'RE GOING TO GENERATE MORE REVENUES BASED OFF THAT, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, WE SHOULD USE THE GOLF COURSE MORE AS A RESTAURANT, AND THAT TYPE OF STUFF. WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MUCH BETTER SUCCESS DOING THAT IF THERE'S PICKLEBALL OR TENNIS OR SWIMMING, THAT THESE PEOPLE WILL BE UTILIZING THAT. ADDITIONALLY TO THAT, YOU'LL HAVE A FACILITY THAT CORPORATIONS CAN COME IN, THEY CAN READ THE FACILITY FOR, YOU KNOW, DO OUTINGS IN THIS TYPE OF STUFF. SO WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS NEW AND IMPROVED REVENUE STREAMS, BECAUSE THE GOLF COURSE AS IT STANDS, EVEN AMELIA [00:25:02] RIVERS, BEAUTIFUL AS IT IS, AND, AND IT ADDING MORE AND MORE EXPENSIVE HERE TO JOIN THEIR GOD, THEY'RE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY. I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE COVERING THE COST, THEY'RE DUMPING MORE MONEY INTO IT, THEY JUST BUILT A, YOU KNOW, AN EVENT SPACE TO START GENERATING MORE DOLLARS, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT EVENT SPACE IS NOW GOING TO HELP TO DRIVE MORE BUSINESS TO THE GOLF COURSE AND OUTINGS IN THIS TYPE OF STUFF, AND I REALLY THINK THAT'S THE WAY THE CITY NEEDS TO START THINKING ON SOME OF THESE THINGS. WE CAN'T JUST KEEP NARROWLY SAYING, WELL, LET'S PUT SOME MORE SAND IN THE SAND TRAP, AND THEN THEREFORE WE'RE GOING TO MAKE MORE MONEY, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT. WHEN THIS GOLF COURSE IS MAKING MONEY IN THE PAST, WE DIDN'T HAVE AMELIA RIVER. WE DIDN'T HAVE, WE DIDN'T HAVE NORTH HAMPTON AND, AND AMELIA, YOU KNOW, AMELIA, WE DIDN'T HAVE ALL THOSE COMPETING THINGS. WELL, NOW WE HAVE THOSE COMPETING THINGS, AND, AND I THINK THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS IS TO GO HEADFIRST INTO IT AND, AND MAKE SOMETHING THAT THE COMMUNITY , AND I DON'T MEAN JUST FERNANDINA. I'M SAYING WE REACH OUT TO THE COUNTY WITH THAT PLAN AND SAY, LOOK, YOU GUYS CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE ANY TYPE OF SWIMMING POOL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT YOU'RE OFFERING TO YOUR COMMUNITY. WHY DON'T WE DO THIS TOGETHER? THE CITY'S GOT THE LAND. WE CHARGE THE SAME FOR EVERYBODY. IT ISN'T A CITY VERSUS COUNTY, COUNTY PAYS MORE, THIS TYPE OF STUFF. IT BECOMES A OVERALL MEMBERSHIP. IT CAN BE BY THE DAY OR IT CAN BE BY THE MONTH, IT COULD BE BY THE YEAR, IT COULD BE AN ALL-INCLUSIVE SWIMMING GOLF AND TENNIS CLUB, IT COULD JUST BE SWIMMING, IT COULD JUST BE SWIMMING AND GOLF, AND THIS WAY YOU'RE GOING TO DRIVE REVENUE, YOU'RE GOING TO DRIVE PEOPLE, AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS ARE GOING TO, THEY ARE GOING TO WORK THEMSELVES INTO, THE CITY IS GOING TO HAVE A GREAT, IT'S GOING TO HAVE A GREAT FACILITY FOR THE COMMUNITY AND VISITORS. AND THAT'S, AND I AM ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THAT THIS IS THE WAY THAT WE NEED TO TRY TO MOVE FORWARD, AND I'M JUST ASKING IF THE COMMISSION WOULD ALLOW PERMISSION FOR STAFF TO LOOK AT THAT. AND WHEN I SAY LOOK AT IT, THE RATIONALE THAT I HAVE IS THE TENNIS COURSE IN THE POOL SUNDAY, I MEAN, POOL MEMBERSHIPS LESSONS WILL GENERATE MORE REVENUES. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A BIGGER APPEAL TO FAMILIES, FITNESS ENTHUSIASTS, NON-GOLFERS ARE GOING TO GET INVOLVED ON THAT PROPERTY THAT WE OWN. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE COMMUNITY VALUE, WHICH I THINK WE ABSOLUTELY WILL. MARKING COMPETITIVENESS. WHAT DID YOU RIGHT THERE? I MEAN, WHY WOULD YOU JOIN A COUNTRY CLUB WHEN, FOR A FRACTION OF THE MONEY, YOU CAN HAVE A WONDERFUL FACILITY WITH ALL THE SAME AMENITIES AT A FRACTION OF THE PRICE? I MEAN, THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT I THINK WE NEED TO DO. SO THAT'S WHERE I'M, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. I HAVE COMMISSIONER TUTEN, AND THEN VICE MAYOR AYSCUE. >> I, I LIKE THE, I, I DON'T, I DON'T HATE COMMISSIONER POYNTER'S IDEA. >> OH, THANK YOU! >> THERE YOU GO. I DO THINK THAT EVENTUALLY, THE FACT THAT THE ATLANTIC REC CENTER SITS ON A FLOODPLAIN NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED, AND IT'S THAT FEATURE. AND SO WHAT IS THE CITY'S FUTURE OF A, OF A BIG PROPER REC CENTER? ELM STREET SO SMALL, AND THERE'S NOT A TON OF LAND OVER THERE. I, I DO THINK IT WOULD BE CRITICAL TO STILL MAINTAIN A FACILITY HERE WITHIN THE MAIN NORTH END WHERE THE BULK OF THE, THE RESIDENTS LIVE, AND THAT PEOPLE HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOR MOBILITY ISSUES, WALKING, BIKING, ESPECIALLY KIDS GETTING TO A REC CENTER . I DO HEAR YOU. I, I WORKED FOR YEARS THROUGH COLLEGE AT A VERY FANCY FULL, FULL-BLOWN FACILITY THAT HAD EVERYTHING, AND PEOPLE DID SPEND THE ENTIRE DAY THERE, AND SPEND A LOT OF MONEY THERE ALL DAY LONG. I, I DO THINK, THOUGH, WE NEED TO GO BACK TO ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES, AND MAYBE ONE, ONE CAN ANSWER THIS. I, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES IN MY MIND OF THE GOLF COURSE IS WE NEED IT FOR THE, FOR THE RECLAIMED WATER. AND SO IF WE START, BEFORE WE START TALKING ABOUT, COULD WE REMOVE NINE OF THE HOLES? I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK TO, CAN WE? OR, OR DO WE NEED THAT OPEN SPACE FOR THE WALK? BECAUSE THE STATE'S NOT BACKING OFF ON THAT. I THINK, ON THAT BILL. IN FACT, FLORIDA'S [00:30:04] BEHIND MOST STATES ON, ON DISCHARGING TREATED WATER INTO, INTO THE, INTO RIVERS. SO, JUAN, DO YOU KNOW THAT ANSWER, WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED ALL 27 HOLES IN TERMS OF IRRIGATION? I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE, LIKE, 1 MILLION GALLONS OF WATER A DAY THAT NEED TO GO SOMEWHERE, RIGHT? >> YEAH. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME STORIES, ALSO, FOR IT, THOUGH, WHEN WE SET THIS UP. >> SO, AND IS THAT ABOUT WHAT IT IS, ABOUT 1,000,000 1/2, OR THAT WHAT -- >> PRETTY CLOSE, YES. >> OKAY. AND DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH, HOW MANY GALLONS OF IRRIGATIONS GOLF COURSE NEEDS? DO THEY NEED 1,000,000 1/2 GALLONS A DAY, OR IS THAT, LIKE, WAY OFF? >> WE RECOGNIZE WE HAVE AMELIA RIVER TOO. >> OKAY. THAT, THAT WILL TAKE SOME OF THE WATER. OKAY. OKAY. >> VICE MAYOR, AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. >> OKAY, SO I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE , WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE ONE PROBLEM ALL AT ONCE, BUT I, I THINK IT'S TWO PROBLEMS. ONE IS, WHAT ARE WE DOING RIGHT NOW? THE GOLF COURSE IS LEAKING MONEY. THAT'S A FACT. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? I AGREE, TOP TRACER, IT'S FAILED. WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE COULD AFTER COVID TO TRY TO GET IT TO WORK, BUT IT, IT HASN'T, SO IT'S TIME TO GO. THAT'S THE LOW HANGING FRUIT. I THINK EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT CLOSING NINE HOLES. THE LOGISTICS BEHIND THAT, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT TAKE , YOU CANNOT TAKE SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY AWAY FROM THEM, AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE, BUT IF YOU BOUGHT A HOME ON A GOLF COURSE AND YOU TOOK THAT AWAY, YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE PROPERTY FROM THEM. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PROBABLY RECONFIGURE HOW THAT COURSE WORKS, WHICH IS FINE, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT GOING TO GET US WHERE WE NEED TO BE TO ULTIMATELY MAKE THE GOLF COURSE AND THE BLACK, AND I COMMEND THE LAST COMMISSION FOR DUMPING MONEY INTO THE, INTO THE GOLF COURSE TO MAKE IT BETTER AND MORE ATTRACTIVE, AND IT CERTAINLY IS THE CASE, BUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO RIGHT NOW? WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO MAKE THIS NOT D.A., A, A, A LEAKING SIEVE OF MONEY? I, I REALLY THINK THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LONG-TERM, SO LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO SHORT-TERM FOR YOUR LONG-TERM GOALS OF BUILDING A RECREATIONAL FACILITY, OR PICKLEBALL, OR ALL THOSE OTHER THINGS, WHAT CAN WE DO SHORT-TERM, AND SHORT-TERM, TO ME, IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE MAYOR HAS THAT IS, IS BRINGING IT UNDER RECREATION AND IT NOT BEING ENTERPRISE FUND. SO I'M, I'M, I'M TRYING TO ZERO IN ON WHAT CAN WE DO NOW THAT WILL HELP SET US UP FOR LONG-TERM GOALS, WHETHER, YOU KNOW, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE TO SIX, MAYBE EVEN, MAYBE EVEN SHORTER TIME THAN THAT, THAT WE'LL CLOSE NINE HOLES. WHETHER THAT TURNS INTO A PAR NINE, OR WHETHER IT TURNS INTO EXTRA PICKLEBALL COURTS, OR RECREATIONAL FACILITY THAT YOU HAVE SOME OTHER THINGS AROUND IT, I, I GET ALL THAT. THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE BIG, BIG PLANS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE EXPLORED THROUGH PARKS AND REC, AND GOLF COURSE ADVISORY AND ALL THAT WOULD ALL BE VETTED. BUT WHAT ARE WE DOING RIGHT NOW TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS A, IS A, IS A SOLVENT ASSET, OR, OR ENTERPRISE, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I AM. I'M NOT LOOKING AT, AT ALL THAT. THAT, THAT'LL COME IN TIME, BUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO RIGHT NOW? >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. COMMISSIONER POYNTER, AND THEN BACK TO YOU, COMMISSIONER TUTEN. >> TAKING IT OUT OF THE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS AND PUTTING IT IN DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. IT JUST MEANS THAT EVERY, EVERY MEETING, I WAS GOING TO SAY, WELL, HOW'S THE ENTERPRISE BUSINESS, WELL, WE'RE LOSING MONEY. OKAY, SO NOW IT'S JUST COMING OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND ON PARKS AND REC. STILL THERE IS IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY. WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST NOT SAYING IT ANYMORE. WE'RE MOVING IT OVER TO PARKS AND REC, AND PARKS AND REC IS GOING TO BE TAKING THE HIT BECAUSE IT'S NOT MAKING ANY MONEY. I'M TRYING TO LOOK AT THIS ON A SHORT-TERM AND A LONG-TERM BASIS, AND WHEN I SAY A SHORT-TERM BASIS, NO MATTER WHAT WE DO AT THE MOMENT WITHOUT CONTINUING TO DUMP MONEY IN, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT WITH THE COMPETITION THAT WE HAD, WITH THE DOLLARS THAT STILL NEED TO BE DONE, THAT THAT COURSE IS GOING TO BE PROFITABLE. I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE MONEY AT THAT GOLF COURSE, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF IT WASN'T LOSING MONEY. AND WHEN I BRING UP THE REC CENTER, YES, IT'S IN THE FLOODPLAIN. YES, IT'S 70, 80 YEARS OLD. AND IT IS, IT'S USEFUL -- WE HAVE TWO REC [00:35:08] CENTERS NOW ON A, ON A POPULATION OF 13,500 PEOPLE. WE'VE GOT TWO REC CENTERS WITH IN A CORNER OF A MILE OF EACH OTHER. NOW, EXPLAIN THAT TO ME. I MEAN, I GUESS BACK THEN IT WAS THE TIME WHEN THEY DID THAT TYPE OF STUFF. IT'S TIME TO STOP THAT. WE'VE GOT A FACILITY THAT'S IN THE FLOODPLAIN. YOU CAN BUILD IT BACK THERE, ALL RIGHT? SO THIS, THIS ISLAND IN THE CITY IS, WHAT IS IT, THREE MILES WIDE? I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE PUTTING, PUTTING A RECREATION CENTER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ISLAND DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE, THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE MUCH OF A PROBLEM. AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE ASKING THE COUNTY TO HELP MAYBE PARTICIPATE IN THIS, IT MAKES ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE SOUTH END OF THE ISLAND WOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM THIS. SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT THE CITY CAN DO IN THE SHORT TERM THAT'S GOING TO TURN THIS AROUND TO MAKE IT MONEY. I, I JUST THINK, AND ALL I'M ASKING FOR, BECAUSE ALL THIS STUFF TAKES TIME, IS TO ALLOW CITY STAFF TO SPEND TIME ON RESEARCHING THIS AND GETTING THOSE THINGS TOGETHER SO WE CAN HAVE A SUBSTANTIVE CONVERSATION A YEAR DOWN THE ROAD OR WHATEVER. BUT THESE THINGS ARE FAILING, AND THEY NEED TO GET CLOSED. THIS COMMUNITY IS A, IS A WEALTHY ENOUGH COMMUNITY THAT WHEN YOU GO TO THE REC CENTER AND YOU GO TO THE POOL AND , I MEAN, IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN TO THE POOL AND STUFF, IT'S PRETTY SHABBY AT THIS POINT. I'M NOT, I'M NOT SHOWING YOU UNDER THE BUS. WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN YOU DON'T PUT ANY MONEY INTO A BUILDING THAT IS, IF YOU, IF YOU SPEND MORE THAN 30% ON THE BUILDING, YOU HAVE TO BRING THE ENTIRE BUILDING UP TO CODE. SO YOU, YOU FIX HALF OF THE ROOF ONE YEAR AND YOU FIX THE OTHER HALF OF THE ROOF THE NEXT YEAR, YOU FIX ONE LOCKER ROOM THIS YEAR, YOU FIX ANOTHER LOCKER ROOM NEXT YEAR, AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE COMMUNITY? THEY GO, WHERE IS ALL THE MONEY GOING? BECAUSE I DON'T SEE ANYTHING. WELL, YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING BECAUSE WE DON'T FIX ANYTHING THE WAY IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED BECAUSE WE'RE COBBLING EVERYTHING TOGETHER. AND I THINK WE JUST NEED TO GO OUT AND BITE THE BULLET, BAR THE DOLLARS, SPREAD IT OVER TIME, USE MEMBERSHIPS AND STUFF, AND FIGURE OUT HOW THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE CAN PAY FOR IT. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING, TO JUST ASK THE CITY STAFF TO START WORKING TOWARDS THAT GOAL. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. WE GOT, BACK TO TUTEN, AND THAT BACK TO YOU, VICE MAYOR AYSCUE. >> I GUESS I AM CONCERNED ABOUT ASKING CITY STAFF WITH THIS RIGHT NOW, AND OUR HAIR IS ON FIRE A LITTLE BIT WITH A LOT OF REALLY BIG PROJECTS THAT WE CURRENTLY DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE PAYING FOR THEM. SO I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THE FIVE TO 10 YEAR. WE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF PLANNING. BUT RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, I, I HESITATE TO THROW SOMETHING LIKE THIS AT STAFF. I THINK IT'S HUGE. I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER AYSCUE BUT IN THE SHORT TERM, THE, THE GOLF COURSE NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO FUNCTION, BECAUSE WE NEED, WE NEED IT AS A SOURCE OF, FOR OUR RECLAIMED WATER. SO WHAT DO WE DO IN THE SHORT TERM TO HELP IT LIMP ALONG? DO WE, DO WE ALL AGREE TO CLOSE, YOU KNOW, TOPTRACER TO PUT OUT THE, THE, THEY NOTICED 90 DAYS IN ADVANCE? AND, AND AS, AS THE MAYOR SAID, DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS, IS, IS THIS AN AMENITY THAT, THAT, THAT JUST LOSES MONEY, YOU KNOW? LIKE CENTRAL PARK DOESN'T MAKE US ANY MONEY EVERY YEAR. WE JUST, WE JUST LOSE MONEY AT IT, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINING IT. IT'S NOT LIKE PEOPLE PAY TO WALK INTO THE CAR. SO I, I, I THINK IT'S A COMPLEX -- DO WE WANTED TO LOSE $900,000 A YEAR? NO. BUT WOULD WE BE WILLING TO HAVE IT IF IT LOST ONLY $50,000 A YEAR? YOU KNOW? IF REVENUES ARE GOING UP, MAYBE THEY'LL CONTINUE TO GO UP. I, THE NUMBER OF GOLFERS IN AMERICA WENT UP 4% LAST YEAR . SO I, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THERE'S SHORT-TERM THINGS WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT. AND EVEN AS COMMISSIONER AYSCUE SAID, WHAT ABOUT THE HOMES , AND, ACTUALLY, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW, MAYBE YOU KNOW. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE DEEDS ON THOSE HOMES IN TERMS OF OPEN SPACE, AND ANYTHING VIOLATING -- BUT I DON'T THINK SO. >> OKAY. >> IF WE WERE TO BUILD A, BUILD A PARK -- IN THEIR BACKYARD -- >> THAT PROBABLY WOULD BE A [00:40:05] PROBLEM. MINSHEW, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T WANT -- >> I ALREADY HAVE A POOL IN MY BACKYARD. >> WELL, AN EVEN BIGGER ONE. WE CAN ALL COME OVER. IT'S ALL GOOD. THE ENTIRE CITY IS INVITED. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD GO THERE. BUT OBVIOUSLY, LONG-TERM PLANNING AND STUFF, BUT I DON'T DISAGREE. I DON'T DISAGREE. AND BOLD IS GREAT. I, I, I'M, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY , IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A REC CENTER, THAT'S PROBABLY THEN GOING TO COME UNDER RECREATION. SO, I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE. SO WE'RE MOVING IN THAT PATHWAY THAT THAT AREA IS PROBABLY GOING TO FALL AFTER ENTERPRISE AND INTO, INTO PARKS AND REC. BECAUSE THE MONEY THAT YOU'RE LOSING, OR YOU'RE GOING TO, NOT LOSING, BUT THE MONEY THAT IS BEING, IS BEING RECOUPED AT THE REC CENTER THROUGH SWIM CLASSES AND JIM AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IS JUST GOING TO NEED THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE, WE BUILD FOR A NEW REC CENTER. MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO TRY TO RECOUP MONEY, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M PERFECTLY FINE WITH TRYING TO FIND A WAY FOR US JUST TO BREAK EVEN. AND EVEN IF, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS. BUT, YOU KNOW, SHORT-TERM, WHERE ARE WE GOING WITH THIS? BECAUSE IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, AND IF, IF, IF THIS PLAN FALLS THROUGH, THE BIG, THERE'S JUST TOO MUCH PUSHBACK, OR THERE IS NOT, IT'S TOO BIG OF A BITE, PUT A NEW RECREATION CENTER THERE, WHERE DO WE GO FROM THERE? AND THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF, TO COMMISSIONER MINSHEW'S POINT, IF WE DO THIS, IT'S THIS. IF WE DO THIS, IT'S LESS. IF WE JUST STAY THE COURSE, IT'S LOSING $500,000 A YEAR. I'M, I'M ON BOARD WITH LOOKING AT ALL OPTIONS. I'M JUST TRYING, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN HERE TWO YEARS WHEN I CAME ON, IT WAS THE SAME THING. YOU KNOW, IF WE JUST INCREASE FOOD AND BEVERAGE, IT WILL GET THERE. IF WE JUST PUT INTO EQUIPMENT, IT'LL GET THERE. IF WE JUST RAISE THE FEES JUST A LITTLE BIT, IT'LL GET THERE. I'M TELLING YOU IT'S NEVER GOING TO GET THERE. AND, AND SO I'M WANTING TO TRY TO LOOK AT DOING SOMETHING SOONER THAN LATER. I LIKE BIG IDEAS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO RIGHT NOW TO MAKE THIS, TO MAKE THIS NOT BE JUST, JUST A, A, A BIG MONEY PIT. SO. >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR. I WANT TO ECHO THAT HOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES BEFORE WE COULD GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT WE CAN AT LEAST COME WITH SOME CONSENSUS OF HOW TO DIRECT STAFF, EVEN IF IT'S JUST TO DO FURTHER RESEARCH. I'M OPEN TO THAT, BUT I THINK WE'RE ALL PRETTY MUCH ON THE SAME PAGE THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYONE HERE HAS EXPRESSED THAT THEY'RE MARRIED TO ANY PARTICULAR IDEA, BUT TO THE POINT THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED , THE LOW HANGING FRUIT, IF WE CAN AT LEAST MINIMIZE THE LOSS NOW, GET A BETTER PLAN FOR THE FUTURE, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'LL REALLY KIND OF PAYOFF IN THE LONG-TERM. SO, COMMISSIONER MINSHEW AND POYNTER, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE TAKE MAYBE 45 SECONDS EACH -- >> SO, TO YOUR POINT, TO COMMISSIONER AYSCUE'S POINT , YOU KNOW, I THINK THE CHARGES TO THE STAFF FOR THIS BUDGET, UPCOMING BUDGET CYCLE IS , WHERE ARE THE, WHERE IS THE LOW HANGING FRUIT, AND WHERE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE? WHAT ARE THE ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVES THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE? IF YOU NEED TO PUT IN A NEW, YOU KNOW -- AND I THINK MOVING THE EQUIPMENT TO THE, MOVING ALL THE EQUIPMENT UP UNDERNEATH PUBLIC UTILITIES STUFF WITH JEREMIAHS OVERSIGHT IS ACTUALLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO, SO THAT WE CAN GET THAT EQUIPMENT ON A BETTER CYCLE. WE CAN ORGANIZATIONALLY, THE GOLF COURSE CAN MOVE UP -- PARKS AND REC AND STILL BE A, A, A, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T THINK OF THE WORD RIGHT NOW. THE ENTERPRISE CENTER. SO, I MEAN, ORGANIZATIONALLY, I THINK WE CAN DO THAT . SO TO ME, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S THE ISSUE OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE TWO TO THREE YEAR PLAN, RIGHT? AND, WHICH IS, HOW DO WE, AND HOW DO WE IMPROVE ROUNDS, WHAT IS OUR MARKETING PLAN? THERE'S TONS OF STUFF THAT I THINK WE CAN DO. THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALL THINGS. BUT I ALSO AGREE, COMMISSIONER POYNTER, THAT WE NEED A BIG, WE NEED A BIG LOOK AT, WHAT WOULD THIS LOOK LIKE WITH THE WHOLE RECREATION PROCESS AND THE GOLF COURSE, AND, AND I DO THINK WE CAN CHARGE THE STAFF WITH DOING THAT. MAYBE NOT IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS, BUT IN, IN NINE MONTHS OR A YEAR TO COME BACK AND SAY THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. >> COMMISSIONER POYNTER, AND THEN I'LL TURN IT OVER TO MS. CAMPBELL FOR A BRIEF MOMENT BEFORE WE TAKE OUR PUBLIC COMMENT. >> ALL RIGHT. JUST REAL QUICK, I'M SHOOTING FOR MORE THAN MEDIOCRITY, AND THAT'S WHAT WE [00:45:02] HAVE RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WHAT, WHAT CAN WE DO NOW TO KEEP THE GOLF COURSE LIMPING ALONG, AND NOT PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO IT? IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY MORE MONEY, SO IT'S JUST GOING TO BE IN THE DEGREE OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO LOSE. WE'VE GOT REC CENTERS THAT ARE FAILING. ANOTHER THING. THE REASON WHY I KEEP BRINGING THESE ALL TOGETHER IS BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE LOOKED AT NOT JUST OF THE GOLF COURSE, BUT IF WE'RE SPENDING A HALF-MILLION DOLLARS COBBLING TOGETHER ATLANTIC REC CENTER, WE'RE SPENDING ANOTHER $250,000 OR $300,000 ON THE POOL AT MLK, WELL, IF THOSE THINGS GO AWAY, THAT'S ALMOST $1 MILLION TO GO TOWARDS AND FUND A NEW FACILITY. SO WHY ARE WE SHOOTING FOR THE LOWEST ARE ? WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE, AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE TAKE THE SOUTH COURSE WERE ALL THE HOUSES ARE, OR, OR THE WEST COURSE WHERE ALL THE HOUSES -- I'M SAYING THERE'S ONLY A HANDFUL OF HOUSES ON THE NORTH COURSE. WE ARE NOT, NO MATTER WHAT I AM PROPOSING, IT'S NOT GOING TO USE ALL THE ACREAGE OF THE NORTH COURSE. BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS, I WOULD LIKE, I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO WORK ON THIS. I MEAN, I WILL TAKE, I WILL TAKE THIS THING, AND I WILL COME BACK TO YOU GUYS WITH A WHOLE FREAKING PLAN THAT YOU CAN SHOOT DOWN OR SAY, THIS IS GREAT. BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH A BIGGER DISCUSSION, AND I DEFINITELY AGREE, WE SHOULD GET RID OF TOPTRACER. IT'S BEEN A LOSER, AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS. AND ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO MINIMIZE THE LOSSES, I THINK, WOULD BE GREAT. BUT I THINK NOW IS THE TIME TO LOOK FOR THE FUTURE. IT JUST ISN'T GOING TO GET ANY BETTER WAITING TWO OR THREE MORE YEARS. THE REC CENTER IS GOING TO BE FAILING EVEN MORE , SO. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POYNTER. MS. CAMPBELL, WANT TO WRAP THIS UP A LITTLE BIT? >> JEREMIAH, COULD YOU PUT THE SLIDE UP THAT SHOWS THE PRICE PER ROUND? I JUST DID SOME LIGHT BUDGET ANALYSIS TODAY. I GOT TWO YEARS OF ACTUAL NUMBERS AND PERFORMANCE AND TWO YEARS OF BUDGETED NUMBERS OF PERFORMANCE. SO THE 22 ACTUAL PERFORMANCE WAS A -6% LOSS, 6% LOSS. THE '23 BUDGET WAS A 14% LOSS. THE 24 BUDGET WAS BUDGETED AT A 50% LOSS. WE DON'T HAVE THOSE ACTUALS YET, BUT WE SHOULD HAVE THOSE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS. AND THE CURRENT YEAR BUDGET WAS A 32% LOSS FOR THE COURSE. SO I THINK ONE THING IS, AVERAGE PRICE PER ROUND, THAT LOOKS REALLY LOW TO ME. $28 AROUND, THAT SEEMS LOW. YOU PROBABLY HAVE SOME WIGGLE ROOM THERE. BUT THE OTHER THING IS, AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE STAMP ACT MODEL. I CAN RE-CREATE THAT. I HAVE A TEMPLATE TO BUILD THAT, AND, AND SO WE CAN DO THAT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU COULD, YOU COULD DO IS SAY, LOOK, WE WERE AT -32% THIS YEAR AND LET'S ELIMINATE THAT IN TWO YEARS, OR LET'S ELIMINATE THAT IN THREE YEARS. AND IN OUR MARCHING ORDERS WILL BE TO GET IT TO -16% THIS YEAR, AND ZERO NEXT YEAR, OR -10, -20% THIS YEAR, -10% NEXT YEAR, AND ZERO IN THE THIRD YEAR. SO IF YOU WANT TO DO IT BY METRICS, WE CAN ALSO WORK IT THAT WAY, AND WE'LL MAKE SOME HARD DECISIONS, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT. >> YOU KNOW, I LOVE METRICS. >> I WOULD CERTAINLY BE AMENABLE TO THAT. IF WE HAVE CONSENSUS TO GIVE MS. CAMPBELL AND STEPHANIE DIRECTION, DO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET OUR PUBLIC THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AS WELL? IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT SUGGESTION? THEN, COMMISSIONER POYNTER, I DO AGREE, I LOVE THE IDEA OF THE BOLD MOVE. I THINK IT'S A HEAVIER LEFT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT GETTING THE REC CENTER IN A SHORT-TERM BUT I'VE ALWAYS SPOKEN THAT THE IDEA OF [6. PUBLIC COMMENT] -- COUNTRY CLUB RATHER THAN A GOLF CLUB WOULD CERTAINLY ELEVATE WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO CHARGE AND WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO COMMAND HERE, SO. THAT BEING SAID, I'D LIKE TO GIVE OUR FIRST PUBLIC COMMENT, MS. SUE SIMPSON, THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME UP AND SPEAK. >> SUE SIMPSON, 2428 -- DRIVE. SO MOSTLY EVERYTHING I HAD QUESTIONS AND WAS CONCERNED ABOUT, JEREMIAH ON HIS SLIDES PROJECTED ALL THAT. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS THAT YOU, YOU NEED TO CONSIDER MORE ABOUT THE ECONOMICS. YOU GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE HABITATS FOR BOBCATS, DEER, ALL KINDS OF THINGS ROAMING ON THOSE THREE COURSES, THE 27 HOLES. YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT DISAPPEAR. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT I'D LIKE TO SAY, IN THE LAST YEAR, OUR GOLF COURSE HAS -- IN CONDITION. THANK YOU, JEFFREY. HE'S DONE A GREAT JOB. HIS STAFF HAS DONE A GREAT JOB. AND I'VE GOT PEOPLE HERE THAT PLAY THE COURSE. I'M A GOLFER, I PLAY. I LIVE ON THE GOLF COURSE AND I PLAY GOLF THERE. AND IT IS A WONDERFUL [00:50:01] VENUE. IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE MONEY, FINE. BUT YOU GOT TO THINK ABOUT HABITAT, YOU GOT TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS BRINGS TO THE CITY. NOT JUST PEOPLE PLAYING GOLF, BUT PEOPLE HAVE WRENS PLAYING GOLF, AND THEY COME TO FERNANDINA TO VISIT, AND THEY SPEND MONEY IN OUR TOWN. SO THINK ABOUT THAT. MOSTLY I WANT TO THANK JEFFREY FOR HIS JOB HE'S DOING. WE HAVE PEOPLE COME IN FROM AMELIA NATIONAL, FROM ALL OVER JACKSONVILLE. THEY'VE HEARD ABOUT THE COURSES IN BETTER CONDITION, AND THEY'RE COMING TO PLAY. THANK YOU, JEFFREY. >> THANK YOU, MS. SIMPSON. NEXT UP WE HAVE MS. SHEILA COKIE. >> THANK YOU. SHEILA COKIE, 1553 INDIGO STREET. AND I'M ALSO A NUMBER OF PARKS AND REC ADVISORY BOARD . I'VE ACTUALLY SPOKEN ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES. I WAS WORRIED I WAS GOING TO GET HATE MAIL FROM ALL THE GOLFERS. BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME EXPANSION OVER AT THE GOLF COURSE. I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY THERE. FOR, IF WE WERE TO HAVE TENNIS COURTS ALSO, PICKLEBALL COURTS, THINGS, WE HAVE THOSE AMENITIES AT CENTRAL PARK THAT PEOPLE CAN JUST WALK UP AND GET ON. THEY ARE USUALLY PRETTY CROWDED, AND IF WE HAD A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE COULD PAY FOR A COURT TIME, JUST LIKE A TEATIME, THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITY THERE. I KNOW WHEN WE HAVE LIMITED TIME, WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO WAIT TO GET ON A COURT AT CENTRAL PARK, SO IF WE HAVE LIMITED TIME, WE COULD BOOK IT AND GO. WE WOULD ALSO HAVE DRINKS AND DINNER. THEY DO A GREAT JOB, THE STAFF AT THE GOLF COURSE IS REALLY GREAT. WHEN IT'S RAINING, PEOPLE ARE GOLFING, BUT THE INSIDE FACILITIES CAN BE RENTED OUT FOR EVENTS AND MEETINGS. WE, WE GO TO FUNDRAISERS AND EVENTS MEETINGS THERE ALL THE TIME. I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE FUTURE, NOT JUST WITH THE GOLF. I WAS A PART OF THE AMELIA ISLAND PLANTATION HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION THERE, AND THEY DID A LIVABLE INITIATIVE STUDY THAT TALKED ABOUT, MOST GOLF COURSES AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALL OF THAT LAND THAT IS KIND OF GOING AWAY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING NOT FOR MORE GOLF, AND BECAUSE OF THE EXPENSE OF GOLF, BUT TO USE THAT PROPERTY AS MORE PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES, OUTDOOR, WHICH WE ALSO PROVIDE IN OUR CITY PARKS. SO JUST KIND OF LOOKING AT HOW THAT GOLF IN GENERAL IS GOING OVER THE LONG TERM, IT'S NOT GOING AWAY, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS, IT'S A COSTLY EVENT, AND I KNOW WE TRY TO KEEP IT AFFORDABLE FOR FOLKS, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT WE DO HAVE, THEY HAVE THREE COURSES, THE PLANTATION, AMELIA RIVER. I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF SATURATED ON 16 MILE ISLAND. SO, ANYWAY, I JUST THINK IT'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY. I LOOK OVER TO WHAT YOU WILL START PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, MS. COKIE. NEXT UP WE HAVE MR. DROWN PELICAN. >> COMMISSIONERS, THANK YOU FOR THE TIME. JOHN PELICAN, 425 NORTH FLETCHER, PRESENTLY THE CHAIRMAN OF THE GOLF ADVISORY BOARD. I'VE HEARD A LOT OF GREAT IDEAS. THESE SIMILAR IDEAS GET FLOATED OUT EVERY YEAR. I THINK THE GOLF COURSE IS A GREAT AMENITY TO THE ISLAND. YOU'VE MENTIONED THESE PRIVATE COURSES OUT THERE. YES, AND THEY'RE VERY EXPENSIVE TO PLAY. THE MUNICIPAL COURSE, OUR COURSE, HAS BEEN THE LEGACY COURSE IN THE AREA. UNFORTUNATELY IT'S TUCKED AWAY IN KIND OF A REMOTE AREA OF THE ISLAND, AND IT'S TOUGHER TO DRAW PEOPLE ALL THE WAY HERE. BUT IT IS A LEGACY COURSE. IT'S 27 HOLES. I BELIEVE IT'S THE ONLY REAL PUBLIC COURSE IN ALL OF NASSAU COUNTY. AND JUST AS NASSAU COUNTY'S POPULATION IS BOOMING, IT REALLY SENDS ME TO HEAR TALK ABOUT CUTTING IT BACK. I THINK IT WILL GROW INTO THE 27 HOLES. MAYBE IT WAS PREMATURE WHEN THEY DID IT, BUT IT'S NOT PREMATURE NOW, WITH ALL THE PEOPLE COMING IN. AND IT WAS MENTIONED HOW EXPENSIVE MEMBERSHIPS AT AMELIA RIVER, OR THE PLANTATION COURSES. IT'S A GREAT AMENITY FOR PEOPLE THAT AREN'T REAL WEALTHY TO HAVE ACCESS TO GOLF. I THINK ANOTHER BIG ISSUE COMES. I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO A GREAT REC CENTER. I'VE SEEN OTHER COMMUNITIES, I'VE LIVED AND DO IT. IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. MY BEST BET IS WHATNOT BE THE BEST LOCATION FOR A CITY REC CENTER DOWN AT THE GOLF COURSE, BECAUSE OF ITS LOCATION. IT'S PRETTY MUCH AT THE FAR SOUTH AND OF THE FERNANDINA BEACH CITY LIMITS. SO IT WOULD BE KIND OF REMOTE, THE LOCATION NEAR THE HIGH SCHOOL WOULD PROBABLY BE A MUCH BETTER LOCATION FOR THAT. AND FINALLY, [00:55:03] THE BIG PLAN IS GREAT. BUT IT MEANS BIG MONEY. AND WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING 300 OR $500,000 A YEAR SUBSIDY, ON AVERAGE, AND MAY BE HIGHER, COULD BE LOWER, THAT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT, BUT IT'S NOT $10 MILLION OR $20 MILLION TO RECONFIGURE A REC CENTER DOWN THERE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THAT WOULD PROBABLY HAVE $300,000 OR $500,000 INTEREST PAYMENTS ON THAT IF YOU DID IT. SO IT'S UP TO YOU, BUT I'D HATE TO SEE ANY GOLF GO DOWNHILL. SEE IF I'VE GOT ANYTHING ELSE I WANTED TO SAY. OH. TRYING TO MAKE IT BREAK EVEN IS KIND OF WHAT PUT IT IN ITS POSITION. OH, KEEP DRIVING THE CITY MANAGER ONTO GOLF COURSE. SHOW A PROFIT, OR SHOW MINIMAL LOSS. AND THEY HAD TO CUTTING BACK ON EQUIPMENT AND FERTILIZER AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THAT DROVE IT TO THE CONDITION IT ULTIMATELY ENDED UP IN. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. >> THANK YOU, MR. PELICAN. AND THE LAST SPEAKER SHEET I HAVE IS FOR MR. PETE STEPHENSON, UNLESS THERE'S ANYONE ELSE THAT HAS YET TO SUBMIT A SHEET. PLEASE DO. WE HAVE JUST A FEW MORE MINUTES. >> PETE STEPHENSON, 1627 HIGHLAND DUNES WAY, FERNANDINA BEACH. ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GOLF COURSE. ONE OF THE LARGEST ASSETS THE CITY OWNS. WOULD THAT BE A FAIR STATEMENT? IT'S OVER 300 ACRES. SO IT'S AN ASSET. AND WE'RE LOSING SOME MONEY. WHAT'S THE PERCENT WE'RE LOSING ON THE VALUE OF THE ASSET THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT? DAMN SMALL. I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THAT IN TERMS OF THE ASSET, IN TERMS OF ITS TOTAL VALUE TO THE CITY. EVERYBODY'S HAD GOOD IDEAS, AND I THINK WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT ALL OF THEM. BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS. FIRST OF ALL, SOME RESIDENTS ARE GOING TO BE OFFENDED IF WE MAKE A CHANGE. SECOND THING. THE GOLF COURSE, I THINK, IS THE SECOND OR THIRD, MAYBE EXCLUDING THE AIRPORT, LARGEST GREEN AREA WE HAVE IN THE CITY. NO MATTER WHAT YOU'VE SUGGESTED, IT'S GOING TO REDUCE THE OVERALL NUMBER OF SQUARE YARDS, FEET, WHATEVER OF GREEN SPACE. YOU'RE GOING TO PUT BUILDINGS ON IT. YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IMPENETRABLE SERVICES DOWN. SO I, JUST THINK ABOUT IT. ONCE IT'S GONE, IT'S GONE. THE THIRD THING IS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY, YOU KNOW, CONSOLIDATING OUR , WE CALL IT A WHOLE COMPLEX FOR THE CITY, IN ONE PLACE. WE CAN EVEN FIND ENOUGH MONEY TO GET DOWNTOWN. THAT'S, WHAT, TWO OR 3 MILLION. WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT MONEY IN ORDER TO DO A COMPLETELY INTEGRATED RECREATION CENTER IN THE CITY, IN THE TIME PERIOD YOU NEED IT? YOU ALSO HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH, WELL, WE'LL CALL IT GROUNDWATER, THE STORM WATER. WE HAVE A PLACE RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD PROBABLY TAKE CARE OF THAT AND KEEP US OUT OF A POTENTIAL, I'LL CALL IT A PROBLEM WITH THE STABLE. SO I THINK YOU'VE GOT THAT ONE. ANOTHER THING. YOU'VE GOT AN ASSET NOW, AND I'M GOING TO SAY THE GOLF COURSE IS WORTH $25 MILLION VALUE. RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE DOWN TO ONE WELL. THE FIRST THING YOU DO, FIX THE DAMN SECOND WELL SO YOU GOT TWO SOURCES SO THAT YOU DON'T DESTROY WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. ALL YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS MAKE IT WORSE IF YOU GO TO ZERO WELLS. JUST STEP UP AND SAY, DAMN IT, WE'RE GOING TO GO GET A SECOND WELL, AND THAT COVERS THAT. WHEN THE STORM WATER COMES, IT'LL COME. GET GOING WITH SOMETHING RIGHT NOW. YOU GOT A PROBLEM THAT'S CLOSE TO BEING A REAL PROBLEM, BECAUSE IF THERE'S NO WATER, THAT, THAT CALLED FORCE IS NOT GOING TO SURVIVE IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER. SO I THINK YOU'VE JUST GOT TO TAKE A BITE RIGHT NOW, DO IT. GOING FORWARD, YES, THERE'S GOING TO BE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS. AND I, I, I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH WHAT TIM SAID. THE REC CENTER IS, IS NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER . IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE, AND PROBABLY IT'S NOT GOING TO BE JUST A LINEAR, IT'S GOING TO BE EXPONENTIALLY WORSE OVER TIME. SO THAT MAY BE THE LONG-TERM PLAN, BUT I'D SURE LIKE TO SEE HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET MONEY TO DO ALL OF THAT, FIX THAT WATERFRONT, AND FIX DOWNTOWN. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, MR. STEVENSON. AND SEEING JUST ABOUT 1:15 LEFT, UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT, WE WILL ADJOURN JUST A MINUTE EARLY AND GET STARTED SHORTLY AFTER 6:00 FOR OUR REGULAR SCHEDULED MEETING. THANK * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.