[00:00:02]
[1. CALL TO ORDER]
FEBRUARY 26TH, 2025.WOULD YOU CALL THE ROLE PLEASE?
>> VICE CHAIR POZZETTA, AND MEMBER GASS ARE ABSENT.
>> SINCE THIS IS A WORKSHOP AND WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY VOTING ON ANYTHING, WE CAN GO AHEAD AND MEET.
>> REMEMBER, I'M LEAVING AT SIX TO GO TO OPA.
WELL, BETTER CHAP CHAP. PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE.
>> BUT SHE ALSO SAID YOU COME BACK.
>> THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
[3. BOARD BUSINESS]
>> BOARD BUSINESS IS OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES.
THAT'S THE DEAL. WE DON'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC HERE, SO WE CAN JUST TALK.
I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO MANAGE THIS MEETING WITH A HARD FIST.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO JUST TELL EVERYBODY BEFORE WE GET STARTED ON THIS IS THAT AFTER OUR LAST MEETING, I DID TALK TO HARRISON TO ASK WHETHER HE WAS GIVEN HARD ADVICE ON NOT GOING TO SEVEN REGULAR MEMBERS.
HE SAID, NO. HIS CONCERN IS PURELY ON THE VARIANCE AND THAT THAT BE DEFINED IN A WAY THAT WE AREN'T PUTTING ANY HARDSHIP ON THE APPLICANTS BY DELAYING AND DELAYING UNTIL WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE.
I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED SO FAR WE'RE NOT READY TO VOTE ON IT OR ANYTHING.
WHAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED IS WITH THE COMMISSION, MY CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN THAT THEY'RE VERY MUCH LOOKING MORE TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE VOTED ON TO BOARDS, ALL OF THEM ARE TRULY QUALIFIED FOR THE BOARDS THEY'RE ON.
WE HAVE LANGUAGE IN OUR FOUNDING CHARTER OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED THAT TALKS ABOUT THE TYPES OF SKILLS ON THIS BOARD IF POSSIBLE.
I WANT US TO LOOK AT THAT LANGUAGE AND SEE IF IT NEEDS TO BE STRENGTHENED IN SOME WAY.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WE'RE SITTING HERE WITHOUT JIM HERE.
WE HAVE ONE ARCHITECT AT THE TABLE.
THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THE WAY WE WANT IT TO BE ALL THE TIME.
AT ANY RATE, WHAT HE SUGGESTED WAS THAT WE COULD THINK OF WAYS TO DEFINE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE EVENT THAT WE GET A VARIANCE.
NOW, I ASKED KELLY TO TELL ME SOME DATA ON VARIANCES IN THE PAST FEW YEARS.
>> I HAVE THIS AND THIS WAS A QUICK FINE, QUICK RESEARCH HERE.
I DO HAVE A NUMBER OF VARIANCES.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE'RE DOING THERE.
HOLD ON. I CAN TALK THROUGH THIS QUICKLY THOUGH.
YEAH. I DID FIND THAT OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS, ON AVERAGE, WE'VE HAD BETWEEN ALL OF THEM, THREE VARIANCES A YEAR.
BUT THE MAJORITY OF THOSE VARIANCES OCCURRED 2020 OR PRIOR TO 2020.
SINCE 2020, YOU'VE HAD ON AVERAGE ONE ANNUALLY, ONE AND TWO.
THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME, THEY ARE VOTES THAT ARE FIVE OR FOUR IF THERE'S NOT A BOARD HERE.
I DID NOT FIND ALL OF THEM BECAUSE I WAS QUICKLY SEARCHING FOR THIS.
BUT IT'S USUALLY A UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THE BOARD WHEN THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD.
I DON'T FIND THAT TO BE UNUSUAL.
I THINK THAT OFTEN AS STAFF, WE WILL DISCOURAGE SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE A CHANCE OF REALLY GETTING THAT VARIANCE.
I REALLY SEE A GLARING ISSUE THAT WE DON'T THINK THE BOARD WOULD OVERCOME OR BE ABLE TO OVERCOME IN REVIEWING THIS.
THAT DOESN'T REALLY SURPRISE ME THAT IF WE'RE ABLE TO GO INTO A MEETING AND STAFF IS REPRESENTING CONFIDENTLY THAT THERE'S A REASON THAT THIS IS HERE.
MAYBE IT'S NOT ABLE TO MEET ALL SIX CRITERIA OF THE HARDSHIP,
[00:05:01]
BUT THERE ARE OTHER COMPELLING REASONS PARTICULARLY RELATED TO DESIGN BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A SEPARATE SET OF DESIGN CRITERIA TO REVIEW AGAINST IN ADDITION TO THE SIX CRITERIA FOR HARDSHIP, THAT THE BOARD MAY AGREE WITH THAT.I SUSPECT IF I WERE TO CONTINUE TO TRY TO DIG THROUGH ALL THE FINDINGS OF FACTS THAT I WOULD FIND SIMILAR PATTERNS THERE.
>> IS THERE A THEME IN THE NATURE OF THE VARIANCE SOUGHT?
>> WELL, A LOT OF THOSE THAT WE HAVE WERE IN OLD TOWN?
[OVERLAPPING] SO THAT'S HOW CARTER IN OLD TOWN? THAT HAVE HAPPENED SINCE 2020 WITH THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINE UPDATE AND A LOT OF THE WORK THAT WE DID OUT THERE MODELING IT AND JUST THE BUILD OUT OF OLD TOWN HAS STARTED TO SLOW BUT WE SAW A LOT OF THAT HAPPENING BEFORE 2020 LEADING UP TO THAT POINT.
>> WITH THAT DATA, MY THOUGHT IS, LET'S SAY THAT A VARIANCE REQUIRES A SUPER MAJORITY STILL, WHICH IN THE WORLD OF SEVEN REGULAR MEMBERS IS FIVE.
WE'VE ALWAYS SAID YOU HAD TO HAVE A QUORUM TO HAVE A MEETING ANYWAY SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FIVE.
>> WELL, A QUORUM WOULD BE FOUR, BUT IF IT HAS A VARIANCE ON THE COULDN'T DO THE VARIANCE.
>> RIGHT. BUT I DON'T WANT TO PUT IT THAT ARE ANY OWNERS ON THE APPLICANT FOR THAT.
WE'D HAVE TO HAVE SOME POLICY THAT SAYS WE'RE GOING TO SCHEDULE.
IF WE CAN'T GET THE QUORUM ON THAT EXACT DATE, THAT WE WILL SCHEDULE IT EITHER RIGHT BEFORE OR RIGHT AFTER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
I THINK WE'RE HEADED TOWARDS LOOKING AT THAT SO JUST FYI, PUT IT IN YOUR THINK ACCOUNT.
>> THE REASON WE WOULD JUMP TO SEVEN RATHER THAN SIX IS JUST TO ELIMINATE TOO MANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR TIES IN VOTES.
IS THAT WHY DO WE ALWAYS WANT AN ODD NUMBER, OR WHY WOULDN'T WE JUST GO UP TO SIX? WE ONLY HAVE SIX CURRENTLY.
>> WELL, WE HAVE SIX CURRENTLY, AND FOUR IS A SUPER MAJORITY CURRENTLY.
>> IF YOU HAVE THE FIVE VOTED MEMBERS.
>> IF THERE WAS SIX, THEN THERE COULD BE A TIE ON JUST A REGULAR.
>> SEVEN NUMBER JUST SEEMS LIKE IT WORKS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE A TIE.
>> ANYWAY, STILL ON IT AND KELLY, I'D LIKE TO PUT THAT ON THE NEXT AGENDA TO TRY TO FIND SOME OF THAT.
>> THIS IS REALLY AN LDC EDIT, TOO.
>> MEANWHILE, I'LL WORK WITH YOU TO LOOK AT THAT LANGUAGE AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT.
ALSO, THERE IS CURRENTLY LANGUAGE SOMEWHERE THAT SAYS THAT AFTER THREE ABSENCES.
>> YOU'RE AUTOMATICALLY REMOVED.
>> WHICH MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE?
>> BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS LOOK AT THAT AS WELL TO SEE IF IT CONTINUES TO MAKE SENSE.
>> IN THAT CONVERSATION WE HAVE NEXT TIME, ARE WE ALSO DISCUSSING STRENGTHENING THE PART OF THE CHARTER OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT DISCUSSES THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE BOARD MEMBERS?
ALL WE HAVE ON IT RIGHT NOW IS THAT ONE REGISTERED ARCHITECT.
>> I DON'T THINK THAT FLIES FOR THIS BOARD.
THAT'S THE LANGUAGE THAT I'LL WORK WITH KELLY TO PROPOSE TO YOU ALL AT THE NEXT MEETING.
AGAIN, I SEE THIS CHANGING AT THE COMMISSION LEVEL SO I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A JUMP ON AND BE READY WHEN THEY COME FORWARD, AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE BELIEVE OR WHAT WE RECOMMEND OUGHT TO BE INCLUDED IN WHAT WE SEND UP.
COOL THINGS. SINCE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE AT SIX, WE SHOULD START, I GUESS, WITH THE CONTENT AND WHICH PIECES OF THIS DOCUMENT OR THE INFORMATION IN HERE SHOULD BE CODIFIED RATHER THAN JUST GIVEN AS A GUIDELINE,
[00:10:04]
AND I WILL ACCEPT ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO START.>> I'LL GO AHEAD AND JUMP IN SINCE I PUT THIS TOGETHER AND I WORKED BACKWARDS AND THEN FORWARDS.
I WENT BACK THROUGH THE SIX YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN UP HERE AND ISSUES THAT HAVE COME UP THAT HAVE CAUSED A BAR.
BECAUSE THERE WAS EITHER SOME GRAY AREAS, IT WASN'T STRONG ENOUGH, THERE WASN'T THE SUPPORT FOR IT.
I JUST LIFTED THOSE, AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE REAL QUICKLY.
BUT THEN I WENT THE OTHER WAY AND I PULLED MY HARD COPY OF GUIDELINE OF CHAPTER 8 OF THE LDC AND THEN I COMPARED THAT TO OUR CURRENT BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES.
THERE'S BEEN VERY FEW CHANGES.
I MEAN, WE HAD OLD STUFF IN THERE, SO I THINK THE MEAT OF IT IS GOING TO BE IN REALLY SOLIDIFYING THAT.
BUT ONE MAJOR THING IN 80101 IN THE LDC, IT'S THE CLASSIC CHARTER THING THAT WE CAME UP WITH.
IT SAYS, DEVELOPMENT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OR THE OVERLAYS SHALL BE BASED UPON COMPLIANCE AND GUIDANCE FROM THE GUIDELINES.
THINGS LIKE THAT CAN BE CHANGED TO MUST FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES.
IT NEEDS TO BE A BLACK AND WHITE SO WE'RE NOT IN THAT POSITION OF WELL, IT'S A GUIDELINE.
YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO FOLLOW.
>> WE CAN MAKE THE CHANGES TO MUST WITHOUT HAVING TO VOTE ON IT, IS THAT TRUE?
>> IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE OUR LDC MORE PLAIN LANGUAGE, WHENEVER WE HAVE TOUCHED A SECTION OF CODE FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS OR MORE, WE'VE GONE AHEAD AND MOVED FROM SHALL TO MUST.
THE ISSUE I THINK YOU'RE BRINGING UP THOUGH, IS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE POTENTIALLY AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ENTIRETY OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES ENFORCED.
>> ENFORCE AND NOT HAVE IF YOU ARE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT IS EXPRESSLY IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, IT WOULD THEN REQUIRE A VARIANCE.
IN WHICH CASE, YOU WOULD WANT TO ADOPT TO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES BY REFERENCE TO GIVE THEM THAT LEVEL OF ENFORCEABILITY.
>> THAT WOULD BE ADOPTED INTO THE LDC STRONGER THAN IT IS CURRENTLY?
>> IT WOULD BE ADOPTED BY REFERENCE AND WE REALLY NEED TO THINK THROUGH WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE TOO BECAUSE WITHIN THE GUIDELINES, THERE'S A LOT OF GRAY, AND THE INTERPRETATION ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BEFORE IT GETS TO THE BOARD, HOW DO WE HANDLE THAT? IT COULD JUST BE THAT IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE ARE PIECES OF THIS THAT WE WILL DEFER TO THE BOARD ON.
THAT IT'S GRAY, AND IT'S UP TO YOU TO MAKE A FINAL CALL ON IT, WHICH IS THE NATURE OF THIS BOARD ANYWAY.
>> BUT YES, YOU COULD TAKE AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY COMMUNITIES THAT DO ADOPT THEIR GUIDELINES BY REFERENCE. IT'S NOT UNUSUAL.
I THINK ST. AUGUSTINE HAS THEIRS ADOPTED BY REFERENCE AND COMPLETELY.
YOU COULD PICK THIS ENTIRE THING UP AND INCORPORATE IT.
>> NOW, IF WE WERE TO DO THAT.
>> IT'S ALMOST LIKE A TECHNICAL AND RULE AT THAT POINT.
>> YOU GO TO MAKE THIS THING AS BULLETPROOF.
>> BECAUSE CHANGING THIS RIGHT NOW IS MUCH EASIER THAN CHANGING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE BECAUSE ONCE WE ADOPTED BY REFERENCE, ANYTIME YOU MAKE A CHANGE TO YOUR DESIGN GUIDELINES, IT GOES THROUGH THE WHOLE LDC PROCESS OF GOING OF COURSE HERE FIRST, THEN TO PLANNING BOARD, AND THEN TO THE CITY COMMISSION WITH TWO READINGS OF AN ORDINANCE.
>> I'M IN SUPPORT OF THAT, BUT YEAH, I WOULD AGREE.
THIS DOCUMENT NEEDS TO BE TRULY ACCURATE AND IT'S NOT THAT STRONG RIGHT NOW.
I ALSO KNOW THAT IT SHOULD BE CALLED GUIDELINES THEN AT THAT POINT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TITLE IS, BUT IT'S NOT GUIDELINES.
>> I WILL SAY THAT'S THE TYPICAL NOMENCLATURE OF WHAT THIS DOCUMENT IS CALLED UTILIZED AS IN THE PRESERVATION WORLD.
IF YOU WERE TO LOOK FOR THE GUIDANCE ASSOCIATED WITH HOW DO I TREAT A PARTICULAR RESOURCE? THAT'S WHAT YOU'D LOOK FOR IN ANY COMMUNITY THAT HAS IT.
> BUT IF WE CALLED IT HISTORIC DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDANCE, IS THAT STRONGER?
>> I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE PAST, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HAVING GUIDELINES RATHER THAN CODE BECAUSE OF THE CONCERN AROUND PEOPLE NOT MAINTAINING THEIR PROPERTY OR NOT DOING IT THROUGH
[00:15:02]
THE RIGHT PROCESS TO KEEP FROM GETTING AN ONEROUS RULING OF SOME KIND.I DO BELIEVE THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD BE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS, I THINK THAT LIKE IN YOUR WORLD, IF YOU HAD TO FOLLOW EVERYTHING IN HERE ON EVERY PROJECT TO A T, WHAT'S THE IMPACT?
>> THAT BLEEDS THE MONETARY SIDE, WHICH IS ALWAYS THE THING WE STRADDLE.
I HAVE FOLKS THAT COULD FOLLOW THIS TO A T, BUT THEN I HAVE FOLKS THAT JUST COULDN'T, COST-WISE, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PARSE THAT.
>> BUT DOESN'T IT STILL COME BACK TO US AS A BOARD THROUGH THE COA PROCESS? WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF LEEWAY.
THIS REALLY ISN'T 100% BLACK AND WHITE BY ANY MEANS.
I THINK THAT FALLS BACK TO THE BOARD TO APPROVE A PROJECT THAT COMES BEFORE US, AND IF WE HAVE CONCERNS, WE CAN ADDRESS THOSE.
>> MY QUESTION THEN IS IF WE ADOPT THIS IN THE WAY THAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, AND IT COMES HERE AND WE'RE GOING TO LET SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING OR NOT DO SOMETHING BECAUSE IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, IS THAT A VARIANCE?
>> NOW YOU'RE FORCING PEOPLE TO PAY $1,500 TO SEEK THAT APPROVAL BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO STRICTLY COMPLY WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
>> WHAT WOULD WE FORCE SOMEBODY TO DO THAT WE ARE NOT DOING NOW?
>> THERE'S CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS THAT ARE ALREADY APPROVED AT THE STAFF LEVEL.
I THINK FOR A LARGER PROJECT, IT WOULD GET MORE NUANCED.
I GUESS MY CONCERN WOULD BE ANYONE WHO ISN'T FAMILIAR WITH THIS DOCUMENT WOULD HAVE A HECK OF A TIME UPDATING THEMSELVES AS TO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
>> YOU CAN MAKE THAT ARGUMENT LIKE WITH OUR WINDOWS.
OUR APPROVED WINDOWS, THEY'RE PRETTY DECENT WINDOWS.
THEY'RE NOT EAGLE BRAND OR BUILDER WINDOWS, THEY'RE GOING TO PUT IN.
IS THAT A MONETARY HARDSHIP? I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT'S WHAT WE REQUIRE.
>> EXACTLY. THERE'S A LINE, WHICH IS THE LINE I WAS TRYING TO TELL WITH THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, RESTORATION COSTS MORE, BUT IT'S WHAT IS IN OUR GUIDELINES.
SO WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?
>> WHAT THEY DID IS WONKY ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND THE PROCESS THAT THEY WENT THROUGH IS WONKY.
>> I KNOW THAT WAS A BIG THING THAT JIM HAD ON HIS LIST.
HE REALLY WANTS TO TIGHTEN UP [OVERLAPPING] THE CRITERION FOR WINDOW SURVEYS OR INSPECTIONS OR WHATNOT.
THAT'S GOING TO NEED A LITTLE BIT OF WORK.
[OVERLAPPING] BUT LEADS INTO MY NEXT THING WAS JUST AFTER THE FACT APPLICATIONS, HOW DO WE TRY TO ELIMINATE THAT FROM HAPPENING? I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF UPFRONT EDUCATION, AND THEN JUST STRONGER, IF YOU DO SOMETHING WITHOUT THE PROPER PERMITTING OR DO IT OPPOSITE OR DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WAS APPROVED, WE NEED STRONGER RAMIFICATIONS.
[OVERLAPPING] PENALTIES FOR THE CONTRACTOR AND THE HOMEOWNER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, THOSE PROCESSES HAVE TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE CITY, BY THE COURT, BY ANY OTHER ENTITY, JUST LIKE A RESIDENTIAL PERSON THAT COMES THROUGH HERE.
I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE SOME TEETH IN, SO WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS INSTEAD OF PERMISSION FROM PEOPLE.
>> THEN WE SIT UP HERE LIKE, OH, GOSH, DID THEY PUT SO MUCH MONEY INTO THAT? ARE WE REALLY GOING TO MAKE THEM RIP IT OUT? WELL, TOO BAD.
>> I THINK PART OF IT THOUGH, IT'S THE QUALITY OF WHAT'S BEING SUBMITTED AND THE LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM.
I'M SURPRISED THAT DOCUMENTS ARE SUBMITTED THAT ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE SIGNED, AND MAYBE THEY ARE AND IT'S NOT HAPPENING, SIGNED AND SEALED BY AN ARCHITECT OR AN ENGINEER OR A SURVEY WITHOUT A SURVEY STAMP ON IT BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING YOUR STAMP ON SOMETHING, THERE'S SOME SIGNIFICANCE TO IT AND LIABILITY THAT THE PROFESSIONAL HAS.
I DO THINK THAT IN MAKING THAT A REQUIREMENT, AND I WAS REALLY TRYING TO THINK OF INSTANCES WHERE MAYBE IT WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED, LIKE THE SELECTION OF PINK COLORS THAT WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT I THINK THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE.
[00:20:03]
>> YOU MEAN EVEN EVENTS WOULD NEED A SITE SURVEY?
>> WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE A SITE SURVEY.
>> WHERE IS IT GOING? [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE SHOULD BE A REAL DRAWING OF OFFENSE.
I SAY REAL AND THEN CERTIFIED BY A PROFESSIONAL THAT IT'S ACCURATE.
>> YOU DON'T THINK THAT THE HAPPY FACE WOULD SOFTEN THEIR HEAR THOUGH?
>> I'VE GOT A LIST [LAUGHTER] IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO DETAIL.
BUT I THINK JUST THAT ALONE IS GOING TO UP THE QUALITY OF THE SUBMISSIONS THAT THE CITY IS GOING TO RECEIVE, IS GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER IF THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HIRE A PROFESSIONAL IN ORDER TO DO IT.
THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT, BUT WE LIVE IN A VERY SPECIAL COMMUNITY WHERE IT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT.
>> THAT'S WHERE I AGREE, IS PRESERVATIONS, THE NUMBER 1 THING.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, EVERYTHING FEEDS INTO THAT.
IT'S LIKE WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S QUALITY SUBMISSIONS DONE BY QUALITY CONTRACTORS FOLLOWED BY QUALITY GUIDELINES, DIRECTIVES.
>> THE OTHER THING THAT WAS HAPPENING FOR A WHILE WITH ARCHITECTS THAT WILL REMAIN UNNAMED IS WE WERE GETTING GOOD QUALITY STUFF TO THE STAFF, BUT THEN WE WOULD GET AMENDMENTS THE DAY OF OR NEW INFORMATION THE DAY OF.
THOSE WHO HAVE JOBS DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE PLANS THOROUGHLY AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, THAT WAS SUBMITTED.
WE GOT IT LATE, BUT IT'S IN THE PACKET.
>> BUT WHY ARE WE OBLIGATED THEN TO REVIEW?
>> WELL, THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE NEED TO GET. [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT'S LIKE THE SMILEY FACE. I SEE.
THAT SMILEY FACE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENT BACK.
>> HERE'S HARD AND FAST LIST, WHAT NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED.
IF YOU MISS SOMETHING, GO ON THE NEXT MONDAY.
>> OR WHENEVER YOU WOULD FIT IN.
>> WHAT'S YOUR REACTION, ALICE?
>> ALL OF THESE, SO FAR, SOUND LIKE ADDITIONAL POLICIES THAT YOU WANT TO PUT IN PLACE, PRACTICES, EXPECTATIONS FOR BOARD LEVEL REVIEW OF CERTAIN PROJECTS, AND I THINK THAT'S GREAT.
I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS IN YOUR GUIDELINES NECESSARILY.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE COVERED IN YOUR GUIDELINES, BUT IF YOU COVER THAT IN YOUR GUIDELINES AND THEN ADOPT IT AND LATER DECIDE YOU WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE TO IT, IT JUST BECOMES A BIGGER CHALLENGE FOR US TO HAVE THAT LEVEL OF FLEXIBILITY WITH YOUR DOCUMENT, SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO REALLY CONSIDER.
>> BUT LET'S SAY THAT IT'S NOT A FULLY ADOPTED GUIDELINES INTO THE CODE.
THEN WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE THOSE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE IN THE CODE, AND THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION FOR LATER ON.
THEN WHAT ARE THOSE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE BEFORE WE BRING IT FORWARD? THAT BECOMES A POLICY BETWEEN STAFF AND THE BOARD TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING'S FULLY VETTED TO MOVE FORWARD.
THEN THINGS LIKE NOT ACCEPTING THINGS ON THE DAY OF, WE NEED TO INFORM THE APPLICANT OF IT, THAT'S SIMPLY INFORMATION.
WE CAN PUT IT ON THE APPLICATIONS, WE CAN INFORM THEM AT A PRE-APPLICATION MEETING.
THE EXPECTATION IS THAT YOU HAVE A FULLY VETTED APPLICATION WITH THIS LEVEL OF QUALITY, HOWEVER THAT LOOKS, AND WE CAN HIGHLY DETAIL THAT.
IF YOU WANT TO SEE STAMP-SEALED DRAWINGS, THEN LET'S TELL THEM, THAT'S WHAT OUR EXPECTATION IS.
BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING YOU WANT TO HAVE THEN IN YOUR CODE BECAUSE THAT BECOMES A CHALLENGE IF, LET'S SAY, YOU WANT TO ALLOW SOMETHING TO MOVE FORWARD AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT.
THEN IS IT A VARIANCE ON YOUR PROCESS BEFORE YOU CAN ACCEPT IT? IT BECOMES REALLY CIRCULAR AND STRANGE.
I THINK WE ALL WANT TO AVOID THAT.
>> WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THEN FOR STAFF IS THAT WHILE THIS CONVERSATION IS GOING, IF YOU ALL CAN KEEP NOTES ON WHAT THOSE NEW POLICIES, NEW PROCEDURES, NEW PACKET REQUIREMENTS, NEW THIS, NEW THAT, WHATEVER IT IS THAT WE'VE COME UP WITH, IF YOU ALL COULD DO THAT, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ONE SUGGESTION SO FAR THAT DOES FALL INTO CODE IS TO REFERENCE THIS ENTIRE DOCUMENT IN ITS REVISED CONDITION.
DOES EVERYBODY SEE IT THE SAME WAY? I DON'T HAVE TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTHS.
>> IF YOU'LL KEEP TRACK OF THOSE THINGS FOR US, AND THEN HELP US FIGURE OUT WHERE WE NEED TO FILL IN THE GAPS FOR YOU.
I WOULD THINK THAT THE TECHNICAL RESOURCES ON THIS BOARD WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU WHAT NEEDS TO BE IN THE PACKET.
>> YES. I DO THINK THAT MAKING THAT VERY CLEAR IS
[00:25:02]
SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP US TREMENDOUSLY IN COMMUNICATING WHAT THOSE EXPECTATIONS ARE.IT IS SOMETHING THAT THIS BOARD HAS REALLY STRUGGLED WITH, LARGELY BECAUSE I THINK THAT YOU'VE SET DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS DEPENDING ON PROJECTS, SIZE, AND SCOPE, AND THERE'S A LEVEL OF FLEXIBILITY THAT HAS TO BE THERE TIED TO IT.
BUT THE OTHER IS THAT ON AN INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER, IT'S HARD TO REQUIRE THE SAME OF THEM AS YOU MIGHT FOR A LARGE SCALE PROJECT.
>> YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR THEM, AND SO IT'S DONE IN A WAY THAT EITHER THEY DON'T COMPLY OR THEY COME IN AFTER THE FACT.
>> WHY WOULD THEY NOT BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY?
>> IT'S NOT THAT THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO COMPLY.
THE EXTENSIVE NATURE OF DOCUMENTATION SOMETIMES IS NOT THE SAME.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF I AGREE WITH THAT.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND I THINK THE OTHER TRUE THING THAT COMES INTO HERE IS THE FRIENDLINESS OF OUR COMMUNITY, AND PEOPLE KNOWING PEOPLE, AND THAT.
IT'S NOT NEW YORK CITY OR ATLANTA OR SOMETHING.
I HAVE TO SAY FROM MY EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE BEST THING I CAN SPEAK TO, WHEN I WAS PUTTING THE PLANS TOGETHER FOR MY HOUSE AND KNEW I HAD TO COME BEFORE THIS BOARD, I WAS PETRIFIED.
I WENT THROUGH AND MADE SURE I HAD A CURRENT SURVEY WITHIN A CERTAIN TIMEFRAME, MADE SURE I HAD PHOTOS AND A STAMPED, SIGNED SET OF HOUSE BILLS AND WHAT I WANTED TO DO, AND THAT WAS IT.
I WAS LIKE, OH, MY GOSH, WE GOT 61 PAGES IN YOUR APPLICATION, BUT THAT NEEDS TO BE COMMUNICATED.
IT WASN'T A HARDSHIP, IT JUST TOOK SOME TIME TO DO IT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN AGREE WITH THAT COMPLETELY.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE UNDERPRIVILEGED PLACES WHERE TRYING TO HELP THROUGH AND GET THEM UP UP TO SNUFF.
>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE.
I THINK THAT THAT'S HOW THIS BOARD HAS TREATED APPLICATIONS OVER TIME.
I THINK THAT'S WHY IT HAS BEEN LEFT OPEN ENDED A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME THAN IT MAYBE SHOULD HAVE.
I WILL SAY THAT OFTEN A LOT OF THAT LEVEL OF DOCUMENTATION, IT'S STILL REQUIRED BY OUR CODE.
IT'S REQUIRED AT THE TIME OF BUILDING PERMIT ISSUANCE.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING REQUIRED AT THIS POINT.
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH REQUIRING IT NOW.
A SURVEY IS A VERY STANDARD INSTRUMENT THAT MOST PEOPLE WILL HAVE ON FILE.
IT CAN'T BE ANY OLDER THAN TWO YEARS WHEN YOU'RE MAKING SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENTS TO YOUR PROPERTY.
STAMP-SEALED DOCUMENTS, I KNOW THAT THIS BOARD, OVER THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT I'VE WORKED FOR THE CITY, HAS REALLY STRUGGLED WITH THAT.
I KNOW THAT THE ARGUMENT ON THE ARCHITECT SIDE IS WE DON'T WANT TO GO TO THAT POINT FINAL, FINAL UNTIL WE KNOW FROM THE BOARD THAT YOU'RE GOING TO AGREE TO IT.
MY ARGUMENT TO THAT IS THEN YOU COME IN FOR CONCEPT ONLY.
AS LONG AS YOU'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT NOT STAMP-SEALED PLANS AT CONCEPT LEVEL, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR WAY TO HANDLE IT.
WHEN YOU COME IN FOR FINAL, THE BAR IS HIGHER.
>> PRE-PLANNING MEETING EVEN BEFORE CONCEPT, THAT'S SUCH A WONDER SERVICE THAT YOU GUYS OFFER.
>> BUT THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.
EVERY DOCUMENT IS SIGNED AND SEALED.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S DETAILED TO THE LEVEL OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
IT JUST MEANS THAT THE PROFESSIONAL IS IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT'S ON THOSE DRAWINGS BECAUSE THEY'VE CERTIFIED THEM.
AS AN EXAMPLE, WE LOOKED AT THE PROPERTY ON 7TH STREET AND THE SURVEY WAS MISSING A TREE THAT'S LIKE THREE FOOT IN DIAMETER.
>> THEY DIDN'T HAVE A TREE SURVEY AT ALL.
THAT SURVEY ON THEIR SURVEY LIST IS SIMPLY A BOUNDARY SURVEY WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS ON IT.
>> I GUESS IT COMES DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF THE SUBMISSIONS.
I'M NOT SURE HOW WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, BUT I DO THINK HAVING THEM SIGNED AND SEALED, IF YOU'RE HIRING A PROFESSIONAL, THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE AN ISSUE SIGNING.
>> DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL?
>> IS THERE SOME WAY FOR US TO PUT LEVELS? IF YOU'RE BUILDING A HOUSE GROUND UP, IF YOU'RE DOING AN ADDITION OR HAVE SOME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.
>> IF YOU HAVE A FENCE, YOU DON'T NEED AN ARCHITECT TO DRAW UP AND PAY FOR A PLAN FOR A FENCE.
BUT YOU DO NEED TO SUBMIT A SKETCH EITHER FROM THE CONTRACTOR OR SOMEBODY THAT WILL BE FOLLOWING, NOT A MAP.
[00:30:01]
A LINE THAT SAYS FENCE OR IS THERE MORE DETAIL TO IT.[OVERLAPPING] BUT THE THE EXAMPLE OF THE WINDOW PROJECT AT THE CHURCH, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A SET OF CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS THAT THERE WAS EXISTING CONDITIONS DOCUMENTED.
SHOULD HAVE BEEN FLOOR PLANS, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ELEVATIONS, A SITE PLAN THAT IDENTIFIED ALL THE BUILDINGS.
THEN WHATEVER THE SITUATION AT EACH WINDOW AND THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WINDOW SCHEDULE DETAILS, NONE OF THAT EXISTED THERE.
AS WELL AS I KNOW, IT LOOKED LIKE A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION THAT WAS PRINTED WITH NOTES SIDE.
>> THAT WAS ONE THING THAT I ADDED HERE AND THIS COMES BACK TO WHAT KELLY WAS SAYING, THIS COULD BE MORE IN OUR GUIDELINES THAN SOMETHING THAT'S CODIFIED.
BUT HOW CAN WE STRENGTHEN IN OUR GUIDELINES OR PERHAPS AMEND THE WINDOW SECTION? WE TALKED ABOUT WHOLESALE WINDOW REPLACEMENT NEEDS TO COME TO THE BOARD, OR IS THERE A PERCENTAGE? IF YOU'RE DOING X PERCENT OR MORE, THAT'S ONE AREA.
THEN I THOUGHT MAYBE, LIKE WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOUSE, ALL THE WINDOWS HAD BEEN REPLACED IN THE '70S, THEY WERE ALUMINUM.
IT WASN'T LIKE I WAS RIPPING OUT 1860 WINDOWS AND PUTTING IN SOMETHING.
MAYBE IT'S THE EXISTING MATERIAL THAT'S REQUESTED TO BE CHANGED WOULD DETERMINE IF IT'S STAFF APPROVAL.
NO, DO WE APPROVE ANY WOOD WINDOWS THAT THEY WANT TO CHANGE BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE THE START.
IF IT'S A VINYL AND IT'S A 1980 OR 1960 VINYL OR ALUMINUM, STAFF CAN CAN APPROVE IT.
BUT THAT WOULD GIVE US A LITTLE BIT MORE.
>> I THINK I MIGHT IDENTIFY MORE THAN A PERCENTAGE BECAUSE THE PERCENTAGE COULD BE, I'M GOING TO PUT ALL UNDER.
>> I THINK IT'S ALWAYS THE LEVEL OF THE DOCUMENT SUBMISSION IS A QUALITY SUBMISSION.
THEN, YEAH, I THINK THAT THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE.
>> WHAT IF YOU DID AND WE ADOPTED, IT COULD BE IN THE GUIDELINES, POLICIES ABOUT LIKE CHECKLISTS FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF PROJECTS.
THEN WITHIN IT THE EXPECTATION IS THESE THINGS WILL COME IN AS PART OF THE REVIEW FOR THAT.
IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE WHAT'S REQUIRED AT CONCEPT LEVEL? WHAT'S REQUIRED AT FINAL BOARD LEVEL? WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR FENCES? WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR WINDOWS? TO JUST GIVE THAT MORE INFORMATION AND AWARENESS OF WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO SEE.
>> IT'S LIKE AN EXPANDED MATRIX ALMOST?
>> YES. BUT CHECKLIST SO THAT WE CAN HAND IT TO SOMEBODY AND SAY, WHEN YOU GO INTO OUR PORTAL, AND ACTUALLY, WE COULD PUT IT INTO OUR NEW SYSTEM AND SAY, HAVE YOU DONE THIS? HAVE YOU DONE? CHECK THESE BOXES AS YOU GO ALONG?
>> KELLY, JUST IN GENERAL, WHEN PEOPLE COME IN TO START A PROJECT, IS IT SAFE TO SAY THAT MOST OF THEM HAVE A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL REPRESENTING THEM?
>> MOST OF THEM DO, BUT YOU DO HAVE SOME THAT DON'T?
>> WHEN THEY DON'T, WHAT ARE THEY ADVISED THAT THEY NEED TO?
>> IT DEPENDS. ON A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO.
THEY ARE ALLOWED TO PULL PERMITS AS HOMEOWNER.
THE LEVEL OF DOCUMENTATION REQUIRED BY THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE IS AT A LESSER STANDARD.
>> FOR WHAT TYPE OF WORK ARE THEY ALLOWED TO PULL PERMITS WITHOUT? I'M JUST CURIOUS AS AN EXAMPLE.
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU CAN DO A BRAND NEW HOME.
>> YOU CAN BE AN OWNER BUILDER AND BUILD YOUR OWN HOME. YOU'VE HEARD THAT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IN ANYWHERE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
>> WITHOUT A STRUCTURAL FRAMING PLAN ABOUT SOMETHINGS?
>> YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE CM AND CL PLANS.
>> IF THE APPLICANT DOESN'T HAVE, TYPICALLY, THEY HAVE MOST LIKELY A DRAFTSMAN ON STUFF UP, THAT'S THE LEVEL OF DOCUMENTATION YOU WOULD SEE MOVING FORWARD TO THE BOARD.
I SEE THIS NOT IN DOWNTOWN AS MUCH AS I DO IN OLD TOWN.
I HAVE IN THE PAST SEEN IT IN OLD TOWN MORE FREQUENTLY, WHERE YOU HAVE THE DRAFTSMAN SET OF PLANS COME TO THE BOARD AND THE PROPERTY OWNER REPRESENTING THEIR CASE.
>> WHO'S REVIEWING A FRAMING PLAN?
>> BUT WHO'S PREPARING THE FRAMING PLAN?
[00:35:03]
>> THE DRAFTSMEN AND THEIR ENGINEER, THEY HAVE CERTIFIED THE FIELD. [OVERLAPPING]
>> BUT USUALLY NOT WHEN IT COMES HERE.
WHEN IT COMES HERE, YOU SEE THE SITE PLAN AND YOU SEE ELEVATION.
YOU'RE NOT SEEING THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL.
>> WELL, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IF IT IS OKAY, THAT WE SAY IT'S STRONGLY ADVISED THAT THEY SIT WITH SOMEONE IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS BOARD IS GOING TO LOOK AT.
IN THAT KIND OF A PLACE WHERE YOU'RE SAYING IT'S OKAY BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING IN THEIR OWN AND THEY GOT A PROFESSIONAL WHO WOULD DO THE PLAN, THEY SHOULD STILL BE STRONGLY ADVISED TO COME HERE.
>> RIGHT. WELL, AND WE EVEN ADVISE THEM, PLEASE WORK WITH A ARCHITECT BECAUSE OFTEN THE LEVEL OF DETAIL PROVIDED IN DRAFTSMAN PLANS ARE INSUFFICIENT FOR WHAT THIS BOARD WANTS TO SEE.
>> WE'VE HAD 98% ALL TIMES IF THAT'S THE CASE.
>> THEN IT REALLY STRUGGLES ONCE IT GETS HERE.
BECAUSE AS A STAFF, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ABILITY TO SAY NO, YOU'RE NOT READY.
YOU CAN'T PRESENT TO THE BOARD AT THAT POINT, AND THEN WE JUST ARE YOUR BOARD.
>> BUT IF YOU HAVE THE CHECK LIST, THEN YOU COULD?
>> I FEEL LIKE IT WOULD GIVE US MORE TO STAND ON.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FULL PROOF.
YOU WILL STILL HAVE THAT ONE APPLICANT WHO SAYS, I DON'T CARE.
THESE ARE THE PLANS THAT I BOUGHT OFFLINE AND THESE ARE THE ONES THAT I WANT TO GO WITH, AND I'LL TAKE THE RISK AND BRING IT TO THE BOARD.
BY THE WAY, I THINK I HAVE SUFFICIENT DOCUMENTATION.
MY PAINT COLOR IS SELECTED, AND ALL OF MY LIGHTING DECIDED, AND I THINK I'M READY FOR FINAL.
>> WE HAVE TO SETTLE WITH THOSE.
LITERALLY UP HERE, WE JUST CRINGE, LOOKING AT IT WITH LIKE, WHAT? DAMN. BUT FOR OLD TOWN, PARTICULARLY, WE CAN RECOMMEND ALL DAY LONG, BUT WE'RE PRESERVING THE GRID, PERIOD, AND NOBODY GETS THAT.
>> I WAS TOLD AT ONE POINT THAT IT'S ACTUALLY POSSIBLE THAT SOMEBODY COULD DESIGN A COMPLETELY GLASS HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF OLD TOWN, AND THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE AS LONG AS THEY FOUND THE GRID.
>> THAT CAN BE ME. THAT'S FUNNY.
>> TWO OTHER THINGS I JUST WANT TO THROW OUT THERE.
>> THIS IS GOOD DISCUSSION. IT'S ALONG THE LINE OF THE WINDOWS AS WE MOVE ON IN HISTORY, EVEN THOUGH OUR PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE IS 1880, WHATEVER IT IS TO 1927.
I WONDER IF WE SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT ANY ELEMENT OF THE HOUSE EXTERIORLY, THAT THEY WANT TO CHANGE, THAT IS 15-YEARS-OLD OR OLDER NEEDS TO BE HEAVILY DISCUSSED, OR WHATEVER.
BECAUSE AS WE KEEP MOVING, SOMETHING FROM 1940 COULD BE REALLY DAMN COOL LIKE A PORCH.
IN THE '70S, IT'S OUT OF THE PERIOD OF NIPPING TO UNLOCK THAT PORCH OFF, AND IT COULD BE A GREAT LOOKING PERIOD DEEP RIGHT.
DO WE SOMEHOW HAVE THAT IN THAT?
>> I'M NOT CERTAIN OF BECAUSE THIS COMMISSION WAS FORMED ORIGINALLY TO MONITOR THAT PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHERE IF IT STILL SAYS ANYTHING LIKE THAT ANYWHERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT DOES OR NOT.
>> I GUESS THE AGE, WHERE DO YOU READ 50 LIKE '50S, AND NOT '75, AND NOT '40S.
>> IS THERE ANY WAY TO ADDRESS ANY PROPERTIES THEN THAT ARE NOT AT THAT PERIOD?
>> THIS A PERIOD WE'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE, I THINK.
>> WELL, I REMEMBER SALLY USED TO GET, PULL HIS HAIR OUT OVER PEOPLE THAT WERE TRYING TO TAKE DOWN LITTLE HOMES THAT WERE BUILT IN THE '30S, AND THEY DID IT.
WE'VE LOST SOME OF THOSE THINGS, AND I I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE APPROACH IS FOR US TO BE ABLE TO EXPAND THAT VIEW.
>> WELL, WE DID CODIFY THE DEMO SECTION IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE OF ANY BUILDING AND I BELIEVE ANYWHERE IN THE CITY THAT'S 50 YEARS OR OVER, OR WAS IT JUST THE EIGHTH IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT?
>> IT'S ANYWHERE IN THE CITY YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPLY A DEMOLITION DELAY OF UP TO 90 DAYS ON IT.
>> IF IT COMES TO US AND WE DEEM THAT IT'S SIGNIFICANT OR SOMETHING, IS THAT RIGHT? BECAUSE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF THEM.
>> I CAN'T REQUIRE SOMETHING THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT TO COME TO YOU.
>> THAT'S NOT [OVERLAPPING] RIGHT AND TO APPLY IT THAT WAY.
[00:40:02]
BUT ANYTHING ELSE, WE CAN APPLY A 90 DAY DEMO DELAY.THAT MIGHT BE FOR DOCUMENTATION REASONS.
IT MAY BE TO SEE IF SOME PARTS OF IT COULD BE SALVAGED.
IT MIGHT BE FOR A VARIETY OF THINGS, BUT WE'VE NOT BEEN ENFORCING.
>> IT'S REALLY, WE'RE JUST THE HISTORIC.
I THINK AS WE MOVE FORWARD AS A CITY, TOO, IN OUR DISTRICT, THERE'S VERY FEW UNIMPROVED LOTS LEFT.
WHAT WE'RE GOING TO START SEEING AND WE ALREADY HAVE IS PURCHASE, DEMO, AND INFILL.
I THINK WHAT I'M DRIVING AT IS HOW DO WE PROTECT ANY OF THE CHARACTER THAT MIGHT STILL BE THERE? MAYBE YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE CAN'T IF IT'S OUTSIDE THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, BUT CAN WE HAVE LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT STRONGLY DOES SOMETHING?
>> BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT, ANOTHER THING TO THINK ABOUT IN YOUR ANSWER, WE HAVE PROPERTIES WITHIN THE DISTRICT THAT ARE NON CONTRIBUTED.
IS IT THE DISTRICT OR IS IT THE TIME SPAN?
>> IT'S BOTH AND IT'S YOUR CONTRIBUTING AND NON CONTRIBUTING STATUS OF THAT STRUCTURE.
>> WALK WITH ME DOWN ATLANTIC AVENUE, AND THERE'S THIS GORGEOUS COLUMN ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE THAT WAS REDONE FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO, MAYBE THAT IT ALMOST LOOKS SPANISH.
>> WELL, I THINK THAT IT'S LIKE A '60S ERA HOUSE.
>> TOTAL DECO. IT'S CONCRETE BLOCK.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IN LINE WITH YOUR DISTRICT TO INCORPORATE THAT, ESTABLISH A SECOND PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE AND DETERMINE THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES WITHIN THAT EXPANDED PERIOD THAT ALLOW YOU TO DO THAT ADDITIONAL TO ADD INTO IT.
>> IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CONTIGUOUS, RIGHT?
>> NO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE CONTIGUOUS. [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT JUST GOING TO BE AN OVERLAY.
>> YES. THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS EFFECTIVELY IN OVERLAY FOR PROTECTING IT.
BUT IT CAN JUMP, SO PAC CENTER IS INDIVIDUALLY LISTED, BUT PART OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT REVIEW PROCESS.
BUT IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY CREATE A NEW DISTRICT, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE.
YOU HAVE TO DETERMINE ONE, THAT YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF RESOURCES WITHIN THAT PARTICULAR AREA.
>> THE OWNERS HAVE TO BE AMENABLE TO THAT, TOO, RIGHT?
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT IS ALWAYS TRUE.
>> THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRUE, AND LEAST LOCALLY THAT YOU HAVE TO AGREE TO BE IN THE DISTRICT.
>> BUT IN OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE ARE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, DO PEOPLE GET TO OPT IN AROUND?
>> I THINK SO IN THE MAJORITY OF THE ONES THAT I'VE SEEN.
>> THAT HAPPENED HERE AS WELL.
>> EVEN OUR REVIEW PROCESS FOR BRINGING IN NEW STRUCTURES INTO THE DISTRICT REQUIRES PROPERTY OWNER SIGNATURE IN ORDER TO EXPAND.
IT'S POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD DO THAT.
IT'S POSSIBLE THAT YOU DO HAVE A SPECIFIC COLLECTION OF RESOURCES THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER LAYER OF PROTECTION FOR.
WE DID ANALYZE THIS IN 2015, I BELIEVE, SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR SOME MID-CENTURY RESOURCES ALONG ATLANTIC AND THE ADJACENT AREAS AND SOME OF OUR AREAS JUST OUTSIDE OF THE DESIGNATED DISTRICT, AND IT WAS DETERMINED THAT THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OF A COLLECTION TO SUPPORT EXPANSION.
THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT WE HAVEN'T FOUGHT THROUGH IN THE PAST.
>> IF THE DISTRICT EXPANDED OR THERE WAS ANOTHER OVERLAY WITH A DIFFERENT TIME PERIOD, WOULD IT HAVE TO BE ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER? THAT'S THE FIRST PRIMARY QUESTION.
THE SECOND PART IS, ISN'T OUR ENTIRE HISTORIC DISTRICT ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER?
>> [OVERLAPPING] THEN THERE'S FOUR SIGNIFICANT BUILDINGS.
>> YES. THE ENTIRE DISTRICT IS ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER.
THE OTHER IS, NO, A NEW DISTRICT IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE PART OF THE NATIONAL REGISTER.
IT CAN BE LOCALLY ADOPTED AS HAVING A SPECIAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IT DOES NEED TO MEET THE CRITERIA TO ESTABLISH THAT DISTRICT.
>> I THINK IN THESE DOCUMENTS ON PAGE, THE ROMAN NUMERAL XIII, I THINK,
[00:45:02]
IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER IN THAT LANGUAGE THERE.>> WHAT WE'RE DESCRIBING FOR A NEW DISTRICT OR AN EXPANDED VIEW OF THE WORLD IS IN MAJOR PROJECT, I THINK.
>> LOOK AT HOW HARD IT WAS TO GET BOSQUE BELLO ON THERE.
>> I THINK OUR CHANCES OF TRYING, ONE, TO FIND ENOUGH OF A COLLECTION OF SOME NICHE, AND THEN, TWO, GETTING ALL THE PEOPLE TO BUY INTO IT, AND THEN, THREE, PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
>> THEN YOU WOULD ESTABLISH THAT DISTRICT'S INDEPENDENT DESIGN GUIDELINE FOR REVIEW.
>> PROPERTY RIGHTS, ALL THAT STUFF.
>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH IT AT SOME POINT, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE RESOURCES RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK [INAUDIBLE] TO PULL THAT OFF RIGHT NOW.
I DO WANT US TO CONTINUE THINKING THAT WAY, THOUGH, BECAUSE HISTORY IS MOVING ON.
>> WHAT ABOUT, KELLY, IF SAY, HOW WE ARE ALL SAW-TOOTHED AROUND THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED IN AND WANTED OUT, IS IT POSSIBLE, SAY, I'M MAKING THIS UP, BUT I HAVE A NEIGHBOR THAT ORIGINALLY, THOSE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN IT.
NOW IF SOMEBODY'S IN THAT HOUSE, THEY'VE RESTORED IT BEAUTIFULLY, THE DISTRICT GOES AROUND IT.
CAN THEY BE APPROACHED OR CAN THEY COME IN AND SAY, I WANT TO BE PART OF THE DISTRICT?
>> THAT COULD BE A CAMPAIGN WHERE WE ACTIVELY LOOK AT OUR PERIPHERY AND SAY, THIS IS A GREAT LOOKING COUPLE OF HOUSES.
LET'S APPROACH THEM AND REALLY WORK ON A CAMPAIGN TO GET THEM TO BUY INTO.
IF THEY'VE ALREADY RESTORED AND THEY'RE MAINTAINING, THEY GOT TO BE DRINKING THE KOOL-AID NOW.
>> THAT HAPPENED WITH THE BEACH STREET GRILL, THAT WHOLE PROPERTY, THAT WAS [INAUDIBLE]
>> IF YOU CAN KEEP TRACK, WE WANT TO REVISIT THAT AT SOME POINT MAYBE WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH THIS PROJECT.
I'M STILL HEARING ONE CODE CHANGE, WHICH IS TO REFERENCE THIS DOCUMENT IN ITS REVISED FORM IN THE LDC.
>> WHAT ABOUT PENALTIES FOR NOT? THAT NEEDS TO BE CODIFIED.
THAT'S MORE THAN JUST IN THE GUIDELINES.
>> WHAT THAT LOOKS, IS THAT MONETARY PENALTIES?
>> LICENSE REVOCATION FOR A PERIOD OF TIME?
>> DELAY OF PERMITTING? WHAT WHAT KIND OF PENALTY ARE WE TALKING? IS IT INCREASED PERMIT FEE? IS IT INCREASED REVIEW FEES? WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? THEN WE WOULD NEED TO PUT THAT IN THE MASTER FEE SCHEDULE AS PART OF AN UPDATE.
>> WOULDN'T THIS ALL HAVE TO GO TO PAD, OR DO WE PUT IT TOGETHER FIRST AND WORDSMITH IT AND THEN GIVE IT TO THEM?
>> THAT'S WHAT I DON'T KNOW. IT COULD BE EITHER WAY.
WELL, MAYBE IT'S NOT REALLY A CARROT, BUT IT COULD BE A MONETARY STICK, AND THEN IT CAN BE SOMETHING FURTHER FOR THE CONTRACTOR.
IF YOU HAVE A CONTRACTOR THAT IS SUPPOSED TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY DON'T.
>> WELL, THE EXAMPLE I'M THINKING OF IS ONE OF THE FIRST, I GUESS IT WAS WHEN I WAS DOING MAIN STREET COMING TO ALL THE HDC MEETING.
I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT A HOUSE UP NEAR YOU THAT HAD PUT IN A CIRCULAR DRIVEWAY OR SOMETHING?
>> THEN THEY HAD TO PULL IT ALL OUT.
>> THEY PUT IN A HOT TUB, A CIRCULAR DRIVEWAY.
>> DID THEY HAVE TO TAKE EVERYTHING OUT? THAT HAS TO BE WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE THAT THAT WOULD BE THE PENALTY?
>> YEAH. THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE PERMITTED AND RESTORED.
>> SOMEWHERE IN OUR LANGUAGE, WHETHER IT'S POLICY OR WHETHER IT'S PART OF THIS DOCUMENT, WE WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW ON EACH EFFORT, MAYBE IT'S THAT MATRIX AGAIN, THAT IF THOSE THINGS ARE NOT DONE, THEN THERE'S A DELAY GOING BEFORE THE BOARD AND THEN THERE'S A DELAY GETTING A PERMIT AND THERE'S WHATEVER AND WHATEVER AND WHATEVER.
>> YES. I CANNOT REMEMBER THE CITY, BUT THERE'S A HISTORIC CITY SOMEPLACE THAT LITERALLY HAS LISTED IN THERE IF
[00:50:05]
A CONTRACTOR PERFORMS WORK IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND DOES NOT GET IT PROPERLY PERMITTED, THEY CANNOT WORK IN THE CITY AND PULL A PERMIT FOR SIX MONTHS.THAT PUTS THE ONUS ON THE CONTRACTOR TO DO WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
TO ME, THAT WOULD SOLVE A HOST OF PROBLEMS.
>> AT A STATE LEVEL, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO THAT.
I THINK WE'RE PREEMPTED FROM BEING ABLE TO ENFORCE SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
>> THAT'S A FLORIDA THING THAT CAN'T BE DONE.
THIS WAS PROBABLY CHARLESTON OR SOUTH CAROLINA OR SOMETHING.
>> WHERE THE VALUE OF THEIR HISTORY.
>> PART OF THE MARKETING FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE NEEDS TO BE THAT PEOPLE THROW AROUND THE TERMINOLOGY ALL THE TIME, THAT OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT IS OUR ECONOMIC ENGINE.
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IN NUMBERS.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE DON'T DO THAT RESILIENCY WALL, AND WE FLOOD DOWNTOWN, WHICH IS SEEMING TO ME TO BE MORE POSSIBLE AS THE YEARS GO BY, WE DON'T HAVE A REALLY GOOD UNDERSTANDING IN THIS COMMUNITY OF WHAT THAT TRANSLATES TO FOR THE CITY FINANCIALLY, AND I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW THAT.
I'M NOT SURE HOW WE GO ABOUT FINDING THAT OUT.
MAYBE IT'S HELP FROM THE CHAMBER, MAYBE IT'S HELP FROM MAIN STREET, MAYBE IT'S HELP FROM CBB.
>> I FEEL LIKE OFTEN WE HEAR REPORTS OF DOWNTOWN GENERATED THIS REVENUE, WHETHER THAT'S THE SALES OR TAX NUMBER. [OVERLAPPING]
>> YES. THEY'RE ABLE TO CAPTURE THAT DATA.
IF YOU HAVE THAT ON AN ANNUAL BASIS, HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT ON A DAILY BASIS?
BUT WHAT WE DON'T HAVE IS HOW MUCH PROPERTY TAX DOES THE CITY GET FROM THE OWNER?
>> ALL OF THOSE NUMBERS HAVE TO GET FACTOR IN.
>> I THINK. TO REALLY MAKE SENSE ON SOME OF THIS, WE'RE GOING TO NEED THAT DATA.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE GENERATED.
ESPECIALLY THE PROPERTY TAX VALUE IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN EASILY OBTAIN, MAP FOR YOU, AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT THOSE NUMBERS LOOK LIKE.
>> FOR THE WHOLE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
>> ABSOLUTELY. YOU CAN GET THAT AS IT RELATES TO THE REST OF THE CITY.
I KNOW PROPERTY [INAUDIBLE] HAS PRODUCED INFORMATION LIKE THIS IN THE PAST.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN CERTAINLY GET.
>> THE SALES TAX, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A RESOURCE THERE TO PULL THAT INFORMATION AND THEN WE CAN MAKE IT DOWN TO A DAILY LEVEL JUST BY DIVIDING IT BY 365.
THEN YOU GET A SENSE OF, WELL, ON THE DAYS WHERE WE'RE FLOODED OUT AND YOU CAN'T OPEN THESE BUSINESSES OR WE'RE SHUT DOWN, HOW MUCH HAVE WE LOST SINCE TAX REVENUE.
>> I THINK THAT CERTAINLY COULD BE AN ARGUMENT FOR THE RESILIENCY.
BUT I THINK IT ALSO HELPS US MARKET THE IMPORTANCE OF OUR HISTORY.
AND WHY WE WOULD WANT TO CARE MORE ABOUT THESE THINGS THAN MAYBE HAS BEEN CARED ABOUT IN THE PAST.
IF WE CAN PULL ALL THAT TOGETHER, I THINK IS GOOD INFO.
>> WHAT ABOUT GOING ALONG BOTH OF THOSE THINGS, IF WE LOOK AT WHAT THE TAXABLE VALUES OR THE MONEY BROUGHT IN VIA TAXES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT VERSUS EVERY OTHER PROPERTY RESIDENTIAL, OR MAYBE NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL, BUT NOT INDUSTRY.
THEN IF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GOES AWAY, WHAT'S EVERYBODY GOING TO BE PAYING?
>> BECAUSE IT'S USUALLY THOSE PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE THESE PEOPLE OR DON'T WANT DIFFERENT RULES.
>> THE MOST FAMOUS AND THE MOST AWFUL AND HATEFUL COMMENT I'VE EVER HEARD MADE WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN SOMEBODY SAID, I LIVE AT THE BEACH, I DON'T CARE IF THEY BULLDOZE THAT POST OFFICE.
IT WAS LIKE STICKING A KNIFE THROUGH MY HEART TO HEAR THAT.
BUT THAT'S THE GENERAL ATTITUDE.
THEY REALLY DO NEED TO HAVE THIS INFORMATION.
I THINK THAT IT'S NEVER BEEN REALLY PULLED TOGETHER AS A WHOLE AND SHARED WITH THE COMMUNITY.
>> I THINK TOO, WHAT HAPPENS IS THOSE PEOPLE, THEY LOOK AT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS A TOURIST TRAP, AND THEY'RE LIKE, I'M NEVER GOING DOWNTOWN BECAUSE IT IS JUST FULL OF CARS AND TRAFFIC AND TOURISTS AND WHO WANTS TO DO IT.
[00:55:03]
IT'S A FINE LINE, BUT IF IT WASN'T HERE AND WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT REVENUE BEING GENERATED, WHAT WOULD WE HAVE? MILLS?>> WE WOULDN'T HAVE [OVERLAPPING], WE WOULDN'T HAVE [INAUDIBLE]
>> WE WOULDN'T HAVE WALK OVERS. WE WOULDN'T HAVE [INAUDIBLE]
>> THERE NEEDS TO BE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT. THAT'S TRUE.
IT HAS TAKEN YEARS FOR SOME PEOPLE, AND SOME STILL HAVEN'T MANAGED TO GET IT TO UNDERSTAND THE TAX DIFFERENTIAL STUFF THAT GOES ON WITH THE CRA, MUCH LESS ALL OF THIS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
IT CAN'T JUST BE LIKE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX.
IT'S THE [INAUDIBLE] TAX, IT'S THE BED TAX, IT'S THE SALES TAX, ALL OF THAT THAT IS GENERATED BY THIS DISTRICT.
>> I JUST MEANT WE DON'T WANT TO PUT WEST ROCK IN OR THE MILLS IN BECAUSE THEY ARE HUGE TAX GENERATORS.
>> THE FOLKS IN THE CITY GET ALL KINDS OF CRANKED UP WHEN THE CBB DOESN'T GIVE THE CITY ALL THE BED TAX.
IT'S US. WELL, THEY FORGET THE RITZ AND THEY FORGET THE OMNI AND THEY FORGET WHERE MOST OF THE BED TAX IS COMING FROM IS NOT IN THE CITY LIMITS.
>> IF YOU CAN COMPARE OCCUPANCY PERCENTAGE TO TAXES, THE PERCENTAGE OF OCCUPANCY AT THE RITZ AND THE OMNI DRIVE THE OVERALL OCCUPANCY UP TO 70 OR 80%.
BUT THE AVERAGE OCCUPANCY OF THE SMALLER HOSPITALITY PROPERTIES IS 42%.
>> WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THIS ONE.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IN TERMS OF CODIFYING IT? WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS THIS WHOLE THING BECOMES CODIFIED.
>> THEN WE JUST HAVE TO BE SURE WE HAVE THAT WHERE WE WANT IT.
>> WELL, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT DOING THAT?
>> I THINK IT'S A WORKSHOP, BUT IT'S PAGE BY PAGE.
>> IT'S LIKE A CHARTER REVIEW.
>> I WAS THINKING TOO, IF WE'RE DOING THE LDC, ARE WE DOING THAT LINE BY LINE TOO? DO WE NEED THOSE THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH? BECAUSE ONE THING THAT I NOTICE WHEN I WENT THROUGH THE CURRENT LDC, IT'S LIKE 8010101, I THINK, IN THE BEGINNING.
IT JUST TALKS ABOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND IT'S VERY SHORT.
THEN WHEN YOU GET INTO OLD TOWN AND THAT OVERLAY, IT'S VERY SPECIFIC.
IT TALKS ABOUT GARAGES, SCALE, MASSING, ADUS.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH NOW, WITH INFILLS, WE PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING MORE SPECIFIC THAN JUST, THAT'S A GREAT LOOKING GARAGE.
SUBSERVIENCE AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
>> IT'S A REALLY DIFFERENT PIECE, THOUGH.
I THINK, THE REASON YOU DON'T SEE THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL IN THAT SECTION OF CODE IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A VARIETY OF ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ARE WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT WHERE IN OLD TOWN IT'S OT1, OT2. THAT'S IT.
>> THAT'S ALL THERE IS. YOUR CODE CAN ALIGN IN THAT AREA WITH THE ZONING DISTRICT STANDARDS, WHERE YOUR ZONING DISTRICTS R1, R2, ARE ALL VERY BROADLY DEFINED AND ALLOWED WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.
IT'S THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF THAT THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR THIS BOARD.
>> MAYBE THAT NEEDS TO BE MORE CLEARLY SPECIFIED IN THE GUIDELINES. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
>> THAT'S WHERE I START TO GET LIKE, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU REALLY HANDLE THIS WITHOUT STARTING TO CREATE NEW ZONING DISTRICTS.
I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU REALLY MEANINGFULLY DO THAT OTHER THAN, LET'S SAY, YOU WANT TO SEE CONSIDERATION OF MASS AND SCALE AS PART OF THE REVIEW OF THAT APPLICATION.
>> WE MAKE THAT A REVIEW REQUIREMENT BECAUSE OTHERWISE, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE ZONING IMPERVIOUS SURFACE RATIOS, SETBACKS, HEIGHT, ALL OF THAT IS GENERALLY DEFINED BASED ON THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT THAT STRUCTURE IS SITTING WITHIN.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL? BECAUSE YOU'RE AN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD? REALLY. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE IN ORDER TO REVIEW THE ARCHITECTURE?
>> MAYBE SOMETHING AS BROAD, BUT THAT WE CAN USE IS BLOCK CONTEXT SENSITIVE REVIEWS.
[01:00:07]
SOMEBODY'S NOT PUTTING IN A BIG MASSIVE ADU IN THE LITTLE LIKE ON 4TH STREET WHERE THE LITTLE MILL HOUSES ARE.THEN SOMEBODY COMES IN WITH A BIG THING.
MAYBE IT CAN BE MORE LIKE THE CONTEXT OF YOUR BLOCK.
>> THAT BECOMES A REVIEW REQUIREMENT, BUT I THINK THAT'S GETTING INTO THE SPECIFICITY OF WHAT YOU NEED TO SEE IN YOUR APPLICATIONS BEFORE IT MOVES FORWARD, THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE THAT GOES.
RATHER THAN HAVING TO DISMANTLE THE CODE AND HOW IT APPLIES TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
>> WOULD YOU BENEFIT FROM HAVING A SESSION WITH TAMMY?
>> SURE. REALLY EACH BOARD MEMBER, WE COULD DO THAT IF WE THINK THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO TRY TO GET THROUGH. YES.
>> WE CAN START TO MAKE AMENDMENTS ON THE MINOR THINGS AND GET THAT.
>> IF YOU COULD COORDINATE THOSE MAJOR? EVERYBODY BE PREPARED.
>> THE TENT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BUFFER AND THE PROPERTIES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT DO NOT HAVE THE RESTRICTIONS. I'M ON IT.
>> IF WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT APPROACH.
>> ARE WE DONE FOR TODAY? UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING [OVERLAPPING]
>> WHAT PROJECTS AND THIS MAY BE TOO GENERAL OF A QUESTION.
WHAT PROJECTS ARE STAFF REVIEW, AND WHICH ONES GO TO THE HDC?
>> THERE IS A VERY SPECIFIC MATRIX THAT TELLS US EXACTLY WHAT GOES TO STAFF REVIEW AND WHAT GOES TO THE HDC.
THAT IS AN AREA WHERE WE CAN MAKE CHANGES. [OVERLAPPING]
>> CAN YOU SEND ME A LINK TO THAT? I WOULD LOVE TO REVIEW THAT.
IT BREAKS IT DOWN BASED ON CONTRIBUTING AND NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES, AND THEN STAFF REVIEW BOARD REVIEW, AND THEN IT LISTS ALL OF THE IMPROVEMENTS.
YOU COULD MAKE THAT MORE CLEAR.
YOU COULD ADD DIFFERENT THRESHOLDS FOR IT.
YOU COULD ADD MORE SPECIFICITY.
>> THAT'S RIGHT I'VE SEEN THIS.
>> SOMETHING THAT WE PUT IN PLACE A LONG TIME AGO TO REALLY HELP US DETERMINE WHAT WENT TO THE BOARD FOR REVIEW.
>> WE NEED UPDATES. [OVERLAPPING]
>> CAN YOU EMAIL EVEN JUST THIS I KNOW I HAVE THE ENTIRE BOOK THAT YOU GAVE ME, BUT JUST HAVING THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL. THANK YOU.
>> DO YOU NEED US TO DO ANYTHING MORE TODAY THEN?
>> SO FAR WE HAVE ONE CODE CHANGE.
YES. I THINK AS YOU CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH THIS AND REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT ENDS UP MEANING? BECAUSE WE'LL NEED TO GO THROUGH THIS AND LIKE, INTERNAL REFERENCES TO OTHER POLICIES WITHIN THE CODE THAT HAS TO BE ELIMINATED? YOU MAY NOT WANT TO ADOPT MAPS INTO THAT.
YOU MAY NOT WANT TO HAVE YOUR WINDOW SURVEY PROVIDED AS PART OF THE GUIDANCE TIED TO THAT.
I HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH THE CRITERIA IN THE WINDOW SURVEY? IS THAT A NEW DOCUMENT?
>> RIGHT NOW IT'S A STAND ALONE DOCUMENT.
WE CAN MAKE CHANGES TO THAT AT ANY POINT.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE SURVEY CRITERIA, HOW THAT LOOKS, WHETHER WE CREATE FORMS FOR THAT OR WE CAN MODIFY THAT WITHOUT HAVING TO BRING TO THE COMMISSION AT ANY POINT, WHICH IS NICE BECAUSE CONDITIONS CHANGE.
WE MAY WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT LEVEL OF FLEXIBILITY.
THAT'S THE BIGGEST PART OF IF YOU ADOPT THIS ENTIRE THING IN THERE, YOU REALLY ELIMINATE THAT FLEXIBILITY.
>> TAKE OUT THE PIECES OF IT THAT YOU WANT TO RETAIN FLEXIBILITY ON.
THE OTHER PIECE, I KNOW, WE'VE SEEN SIGNIFICANT SHIFTS WITH HOW THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS ARE BEING REVIEWED.
IT WAS LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE WHERE THE THOUGHT PROCESS ASSOCIATED WITH PRESERVATION HAS CHANGED, BEING A LOT MORE ACCEPTING OF ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS.
THAT IS SOMETHING AT A NATIONAL LEVEL IS EMBRACED.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO DO THAT LOCALLY, BUT HAVING THE ABILITY TO ADAPT TO THOSE CHANGING CONDITIONS, IT GETS MORE DIFFICULT ONCE YOU START TO BRING THAT INTO THE CODE.
[01:05:06]
>> IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE FLORIDA STATE LAW THAT WOULD PREVENT US FROM BASICALLY IGNORING THOSE CHANGED STANDARDS?
IT'S JUST A SECRETARY OF A STANDARD AT A NATIONAL LEVEL.
HOW YOU APPLY THEM AND ENFORCE THEM REALLY IS AT A LOCAL LEVEL.
THAT'S UP TO THE LOCAL JURISDICTION TO DECIDE.
>> NO. THE ONE THING I WAS GOING TO POINT OUT, WE DON'T REALLY EMPHASIZE THE MATERIAL FOR WINDOW RESTORATION GOING BACK AND ACTUALLY USING IT'S JUST THE LANGUAGE IS VAGUE.
>> IT'S NOT FAIR AT ALL. REALLY. IT'S NOT VAGUE. IT DOESN'T EXIST.
THERE'S NO DIRECTION THAT SAYS, IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE RESTORATION IS POSSIBLE, NOT ONLY DO WE WANT YOU TO RESTORE IT, OR WE WANT TO SEE MORE DETAIL ABOUT THE LEVEL OF INVESTIGATION THAT YOU'VE PERFORMED IN ORDER TO DETERMINE THAT IT'S A NON FUNCTIONING WINDOW.
WE WANTED TO SEE YOU GO BACK WITH WED GLASS.
IT SIMPLY SAYS, IN ORDER TO REVIEW THIS, HERE'S WHAT YOU NEED TO TELL US, BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU A LOT OF LIKE MEAT TO LIKE SAY HOW TO ENFORCE IT AT A PARTICULAR LEVEL.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE CAN DO.
WE CAN IMMEDIATELY BRING BACK OUR WINDOWS LIST AND THE SURVEY AND WHAT'S IN THERE.
WE CAN GENERATE FORMS. WE CAN ADD STUFF AT OUR NEXT MEETING.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN IMMEDIATELY ADDRESS.
>> I GUESS JUST FROM THERE'S SO MANY LITTLE INTRICACIES TO THESE.
YEAH, FRICKING WINDOWS FUNCTIONALITY, GLASS TYPE MATERIAL, NOW IT'S JUST.
>> BUT IT'S AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT.
>> I FEEL BAD EVERY TIME THAT A CRAPPY PAINTER SHOWS UP AND COCKS EVERY FUNCTIONAL WINDOW SHUT, AND I'M LIKE, OH, DEAR GOD.
>> WHO IS MAKING THOSE DETERMINATIONS? I KNOW WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION? WHAT ARE THEY QUALIFIED TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION? WHAT MAKES THEM QUALIFIED? HOW DO WE PUT THAT INTO WRITING SO THAT WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GETTING A THIRD PARTY REVIEW, PERHAPS OF WHAT'S BEEN PROVIDED.
>> EVEN A SO LITTLE AS LIKE AN HDC MEMBER JOGS BY THERE.
THAT'S WHAT WINDOWS THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THAT LITTLE RESPONSIBILITY ON, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO, GET AUSTIN HISTORICAL INVOLVED EVERY TIME WE NEED TO REPLACE A WINDOW.
>> NO. THERE'S SO FEW PEOPLE THAT WE CAN CALL ON, TOO.
WHAT INFORMATION WE CAN PROVIDE TO SOMEBODY TO SAY, HERE'S HOW YOU GO THROUGH THIS.
HERE'S HOW YOU PROPERLY VET IT, THE BETTER.
IF I KNOW THAT WE CANNOT MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ANYONE.
SOMEBODY COMES TO OUR OFFICE AND THEY'RE LIKE, HEY, I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW, WHO DO I CALL TO HAVE THIS WORK PERFORMED.
I'M SORRY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO USE GOOGLE.
I CAN'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO, BUT IF THERE IS A WAY THAT WE CAN GIVE SOME RESOURCE THAT'S NOT AN INDIVIDUAL CONTRACTOR OR BUSINESS, THEN LET'S MAKE SURE THAT GETS INCORPORATED INTO THE DOCUMENTS.
>> WE CAN DO THAT NOW. YOU COULD TAKE THIS ON AND WORK WITH US DIRECTLY, AND WE COULD GET SOMETHING PULLED TOGETHER FOR THE NEXT MEETING SO THAT THE BOARD CAN REVIEW IT AND SAY, THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER. LET'S ADOPT.
>> I'VE BEEN WORKING ON SPECIFIC CRITERIA I THINK THAT'S GOING TO ALIGN BETTER WITH WHAT I PERSONALLY SEE IN THE FIELD AS FAR AS LIKE, THINGS BEYOND.
>> YEAH, EXACTLY, WHICH IS JUST VERY FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.
>> HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT CALL? WHAT IS THAT VERSUS THE ONE THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE MORE EFFORT, BUT YOU COULD DO IT. HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT CALL? THEN DOES THE COST BECOME PART OF THAT EQUATION? I DON'T KNOW. I WANT TO SEE THAT INFORMATION PROVIDED AS PART OF THAT.
THOSE ARE THINGS THAT I THINK WE CAN TALK THROUGH.
IN TERMS OF ALTERNATE MATERIALS, THOUGH.
RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE SIDING THAT ALLOWS PARTY PLANK RIGHT NOW, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY NEW MATERIALS THAT ARE COMING ON THE MARKET.
YOU SAW A PRESENTATION IN DECEMBER, I BELIEVE ON THAT DEAL.
[OVERLAPPING] YES. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT RECOGNIZES THAT.
SIMILAR TO A WINDOWS LIST, DO WE WANT TO CREATE A POLICY AND A DOCUMENT FOR APPROVED NON TRADITIONAL MATERIALS THAT ARE ALLOWED, WHETHER THAT'S AT IT.
THAT WE CAN GIVE DIRECTION IF IT DOES GO TO THE BOARD OR AT A STAFF LEVEL.
>> IS THE CITY CAPABLE, HAVE THE STAFFING, NOT CAPABLE.
I HAVE THE STAFFING TO DO THE RESEARCH ON THOSE MATERIALS?
>> YES. I MEAN, WE SEE THEM COMING IN NOW.
HAVE YOU GOT EXAMPLE SITTING HERE IN BOXES [OVERLAPPING] COMING IN WITH THAT.
[01:10:06]
>> THE MORE OF THAT INFORMATION THAT WE CAN PROVIDE TO THE APPLICANTS AHEAD OF TIME.
I THINK IT ENDS UP SAVING YOU ALL.
WHATEVER IDEAS YOU HAVE ABOUT WHAT FORMS OR WHAT INFORMATION WE PROVIDE ON EXTERIOR, WHATEVER, LET'S DO IT.
>> IT'S NOT THAT MANY DIFFERENT TYPES.
>> IT'S LIKE PROBABLY HALF A DOZEN DIFFERENT THINGS.
THEN, LIKE, WHAT ARE THE MATERIALS? IT'S THE SIDING. IT'S THE DECK.
IT'S THE POINT. IT'S NOT THAT MANY, AND THERE'S SOME OPTIONS.
>> IT REALLY HELPS PEOPLE OUT.
BECAUSE OTHERWISE, WE'RE SAYING, SORRY, NO, GO [OVERLAPPING]
>> WELL, MAYBE IT'LL HELP SOME OF THE CITY PEOPLE TO GIVE OPTIONS.
>> I THINK JUST SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I THINK THE DECKING IS GOING TO BE A BIG THING.
WE JUST BROUGHT ON A GUY FROM CHARLESTON WHO WORKED IN THEIR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I'VE BEEN PICKING HIS BRAIN ABOUT ALL THIS STUFF.
THE STUFF THAT THEY MADE HIM DO.
EVERY PIECE OF SITING, EVERY PIECE OF MOLDING.
HE'S LIKE, WHERE DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THIS? I'M LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? HE'S LIKE, WE HAVE TO REUSE ALL OF THIS.
I'M LIKE, WELL, YOU HAVE TO REUSE THE GOOD STUFF AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE REUSING EVERYTHING, BUT THEY ALSO DO A TON OF COMPOSITE DECKS UP THERE.
THAT STUFF IS HORRENDOUSLY EXPENSIVE.
>> UNLIKE WILLINGNESS ON SIDING OR ROOFING MATERIAL.
THOSE ARE THE TWO OTHER AREAS WHERE I'M SEEING LIKE, HEY, YOU ACCEPT THIS OTHER TYPE OF ROOF.
NO. I DON'T LIKE TALKING ABOUT ROOF
>> I THINK THAT MY DREAM IS THAT WE GROW UP THE WAY CHARLESTON HAS.
TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO US.
TO KEEP ALL THAT STUFF THE WAY IT IS.
WE MAYBE GO TO THE EXTREME THAT THEY HAVE.
>> BUT I APPRECIATED IT. I WAS LIKE, OH MY GOD, MAYBE I'VE BEEN SLACKING LIKE IT'S CRAZY.
>> WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, WHEN YOU INTRODUCE A CHANGE, EVERYBODY'S GOING TO GO BONKERS, BUT AFTER A WHILE, IT'S QUIET AND PEOPLE WILL GO BONKERS OVER THE SLIGHTEST THING.
WE JUST HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR THAT.
>> I THINK A LOT OF IT IS, LET'S SAY YOU REALLY AMPLIFY CERTAIN CRITERIA AND STANDARDS, AND YOU REALLY THESE ARE SUPER IMPORTANT TO US.
WE MUST SEE THIS WHETHER THAT NEW DOCUMENTATION REQUIREMENTS, BUT IN OTHER AREAS YOU PROVIDE REALLY CLEAR GUIDANCE ABOUT WHAT'S ALLOWED.
IT'S GIVING THEM A BALANCE, LIKE YES, WE WANT THIS, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT IF YOU DON'T PASS GO UNLESS YOU PROVIDE IT, BUT HERE'S THE GUIDANCE YOU NEED FOR ALL OF YOUR OTHER PROJECTS THAT YOU ARE LOOKING TO PURSUE.
>> I THINK YOU'LL GET A MUCH DIFFERENT PRODUCT ON THE OTHER END IF WE MAKE THIS MUCH MORE CRYSTAL CLEAR ESPECIALLY REUSING MATERIALS.
IT'S JUST THERE'S SO MUCH MORE CARE AND INVOLVEMENT ON THE CONTRACTOR SIDE.
WE'RE GOOD? [NOISE] MEETING ADJOURNED
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.