[00:00:05]
>> MEETING OF THE HDC DECEMBER 19TH, 2024.
[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
IT'S 5:00 ACCORDING TO THAT CLOCK, AND NOW IT IS THAT ONE TOO.WOULD YOU PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? WE HAVE A QUORUM, CORRECT?
>> YES. WE'RE MINUS ALTERNATE TODAY? COULD I ASK ANYONE ON THE BOARD WHO'S HAD ANY EX PARTY COMMUNICATIONS TO REVEAL THAT NOW, PLEASE? WE START DOWN HERE, DYLAN? NO. VERONICA?
>> JUST OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION, OVER LOTS OF DIFFERENT OCCASIONS, I'VE SPOKEN WITH EITHER RUTH OR PAUL ABOUT THEIR HOUSE, BUT NOTHING SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO TONIGHT.
>> MADAM ATTORNEY, COULD YOU PRESENT THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES, PLEASE?
>> TONIGHT, WE HAVE SEVERAL CASES ON THE AGENDA.
NO VARIANCES, SO THEY'RE ALL FOR CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS OR APPROVAL.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS, THE BOARD IS SITTING TONIGHT FOR THESE CASES IN A QUASI JUDICIAL CAPACITY AS JUDGES, SORTS OF HOW I DEFINE, HOW I TRANSLATE QUASI JUDICIAL.
>> YOU'RE JUDGES, AND SO TONIGHT I'M REPRESENTING THIS BOARD, AND MS. GIBSON IS REPRESENTING CITY STAFF.
PARTIES ARE THE APPLICANT PROPERTY OWNER AND THE CITY.
THE CITY IS NOT REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL TONIGHT, I'M REPRESENTING JUST THE BOARD TONIGHT AND GETS YOU THROUGH, AND PROCEDURE WISE.
MS. GIBSON GOES FIRST FOR EACH OF THE CASES, MAKES PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCES EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD.
THE RECORD IS BEING KEPT IN AN AUDIO AND VISUAL.
WE HAVE A VIDEO GOING AND THEN THEY'LL BE MINUTES TAKEN, AS YOU KNOW.
THAT'LL BE THE RECORD. EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS HERE TONIGHT CREATES A RECORD THAT IS PRESERVED FOR APPEAL.
IF THERE'S AN APPEAL OF ANY OF THE DECISIONS TONIGHT, THAT APPEAL HAS TO BE FILED WITH THE CIRCUIT COURT WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD'S FINDINGS OF FACT, WHICH IS ABOUT 35 DAYS ONCE THE CHAIR SIGNS THAT.
AFTER THE CITY STAFF MAKES A PRESENTATION THEN THE APPLICANT OR THEIR AGENT COME TO THE PODIUM, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
YOU WILL ALSO BE PRESENTING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY FOR YOUR APPLICATION.
IF THERE ARE AFFECTED PARTIES HERE TONIGHT WHICH MEANS THAT YOU'RE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY JUST LIKE THE PARTIES.
YOU'RE NOT LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU GET TO SPEAK AND YOU CAN INTRODUCE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY.
ALL THE PARTIES, AFFECTED PARTIES, WHOEVER IS INTRODUCING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY CAN CALL WITNESSES AND CAN ALSO CROSS EXAMINE, ASK QUESTIONS OF EACH OTHER AND OF THEIR WITNESSES.
AFTER THE APPLICANT AND AFFECTED PARTIES PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, THE CHAIR IS GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THE BOARD WILL BEGIN THEIR DELIBERATIONS, AND THEN VOTE ON EACH OF THE CASES.
EACH IS HANDLED SEPARATELY AS A SEPARATE HEARING.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU. IF ANYONE NOW EXPECTS TO TESTIFY TODAY, WOULD YOU PLEASE RISE SO YOU CAN ADMINISTER YOUR OATH? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> JUST A REMINDER, IF YOU DO WANT TO SPEAK TONIGHT, WE'D ASK THAT YOU FILL OUT ONE OF THE FORMS AT THE DOOR AND PUT THAT IN THE BASKET NEXT TO MS. GIBSON THERE.
FIRST ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
MEETING MINUTES FROM THE REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 17TH.HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE? ANY COMMENTS? CAN WE GO AHEAD AND APPROVE THOSE BY VOICE VOTE?
>> ANY OPPOSED? NO. THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE REGULAR MEETING OF NOVEMBER 21ST.
IF YOU'VE REVIEWED THOSE, ANY COMMENTS?
>> DOES THAT MEAN WE APPROVE THEM? CAN I HAVE A VOICE VOTE? AYE.
>> THANK YOU. OUR FIRST CASE IS UNDER OLD BUSINESS IS HDC 2024-0007.
[4.1 HDC 2024-0007 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR RUTH MAESTRE, 11 S. 7TH STREET]
[00:05:05]
LOOKING TO ADD, THIS IS A SECOND REVIEW.MS. GIBSON, YOU GIVE REPORT FOR US.
>> YES. GOOD EVENING. THIS IS AN APPLICATION AND IT'S THE FIRST REVISION OF A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL FOR THIS SPECIFIC AREA OF THE STRUCTURE.
THE MOST RECENT PRIOR APPROVAL WAS IN MAY OF 2024.
FOR THE RECORD, ALL APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, AND ALL REQUIRED NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE TIED TO THIS APPLICATION.
THIS EVENING, THE APPLICANT AT 11 SOUTH SEVENTH STREET IS REQUESTING AN AMENDMENT TO ADD 330 SQUARE FEET OF A REAR ADDITION TO THE NORTH SIDE WITH WOOD STEPS AND RAILING, A CRAWL SPACE VENT PANEL, PAC CLAD METAL ROOF, MARVIN WINDOWS, THERMA-TRU FIBER GLASS DOOR, BRICK STEPS, TO THE SOUTH SIDE, A NEW WOODEN FENCE AND GATE.
TO CONTINUE TO RENOVATE AND CONSTRUCT ADDITIONS AT THE REAR OF THE HOME AND A PORCH ON THE EAST SIDE.
PORTIONS OF THIS, YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY SEEN AGAIN, AT THAT MAY 2024 HEARING.
LET ME SEE. ON THE SCREEN, YOU DO HAVE A SITE PLAN WITH THE ADDITION ASSOCIATED WITH THIS REVISION.
STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICANT'S REVISION REQUEST AGAINST THE APPLICABLE GUIDELINES, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE BERNIE DEAN OF BEACH LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND HAS FOUND THEM TO BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE HEIGHT SCALE MASSING SETBACKS AND MATERIALS, AND DOES ISSUE A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL FOR THE AMENDMENT.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON? SEEING NONE.
DO THE APPLICANT LIKE TO SPEAK? HELLO, MR. MIRANDA.
>> DO YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF?
>> YES. MIRANDA ARCHITECTS 309.5 CEDAR STREET, SUITE 206.
THE BIG CHANGES ON THIS ARE, WE BASICALLY ADDED ON TO THE BACK PORTION.
THE ORIGINAL KITCHEN IS BACK THERE.
IN THE PROCESS OF REMOVING INTERIOR FINISHES, THEY REVEALED THE ROOF CEILING ASSEMBLY THAT THEY WANTED TO EXPOSE.
IN THE ORIGINAL DESIGN, WE HAD POWDER AND LAUNDRY ROOM UNDERNEATH THOSE AREAS, SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE SEEN THOSE CEILINGS.
NOW WE SHIFTED THAT TO THE NORTH SO THAT THAT SPACE IS GOING TO BECOME A SITTING ROOM THAT YOU CAN SEE THE VAULTED CEILING IN.
THAT'S THE DETAILING THAT HAS CHANGED IN THIS AMENDMENT.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA?
>> I THINK I HAD JUST A CLARIFICATION QUESTION.
I SEE THAT YOU GOT THE MARVIN SIGNATURE SERIES, IS IT ULTIMATE?
>> BECAUSE THEY HAVE THREE DIFFERENT KINDS.
THERE'S A MODERN ONE THAT PROBABLY.
>> NO. WE WENT WITH THE TRADITIONAL ONE. YES.
>> THERE WAS A MENTION OF A FENCE.
>> THERE ARE PORTIONS OF IT. YOU CAN SEE IT.
THERE'S GOING TO BE ONE BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THIS OUTBUILDING, TO CLOSE OFF ALSO THE BACK PROPERTY.
THERE'S AN EXISTING FENCE ON THE BACK, AND THEN THERE'S AN EXISTING OUTBUILDING THAT BELONGS TO THE NEIGHBOR THAT WILL BE.
HAVE ANY GATE. IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THE DOGS HAVE A PLACE TO RUN WITHOUT ESCAPING, WHICH IS A RECURRING NIGHTMARE VOLUME.
>> WHAT'S THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE IN?
>> I THINK WE'RE JUST GOING TO GO WITH A STANDARD FOUR FOOT.
THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANYTHING.
BUT AGAIN, I KNOW ZONE COMMERCIAL, WE COULD GO UP EIGHT.
THERE'S NO NEED TO GO UP EIGHT.
I THINK FOUR FEET WILL SUFFICE.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON THE DOG BEING ABLE TO STAY IN THE YARD OR NOT JUMP IT.
>> IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULDN'T SIGN BARELY IF ANY VISIBLE FROM?
>> THAT'S CORRECT. MOST OF IT VISIBLE IS JUST THE OPERABLE GATE TO GET IN AND AROUND THE COMPLEX.
>> I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE ITEMS I NOTED THAT THE NEW REVISION ADDITION BITS ARE ALL COMPLETELY BEHIND THE HOME IN THE BACK AND REALLY AREN'T VISIBLE FROM STREET.
THAT DIDN'T CHANGE FROM THE PREVIOUS. THAT'S CORRECT.
>> WE LOOKED AT THAT LAST TIME.
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>> I KNOW. PAUL'S DESPERATE TO GET THAT PORCH ON THERE.
>> I DID HAVE ONE OTHER CLARIFICATION QUESTION, JOSE, ON THIS MOCK UP WHERE THE LAUNDRY, KITCHEN ADDITION IS HASH MARKED.
IT APPEARS THAT GIANT INVERTED L. BUT THEN ON THE DEMO PLAN ON SHEET 4, YOU'RE ACTUALLY TAKING ALL THAT WEIRD STUFF.
>> THERE'S A LITTLE PORCH THAT WAS ALREADY THERE, THAT'S IN REAL BAD SHAPE.
>> IT'S ALL COMING OFF. THIS WILL REPLACE.
>> I KNOW WHEN WE DID A WALK THROUGH, IT'S THERE LIKE ALL THESE OLD BITS AND PIECES BACK THERE.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT NEEDS OR SHOULD BE SALVAGED IN THERE OR WAS ALL OF THAT TACKED ON OVER THE YEARS?
>> YES, IT'S BEEN A HODGEPODGE, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL KITCHEN.
THERE WAS A BREEZEWAY BETWEEN THE TWO.
THIS WAS ENCLOSED, AND THEN ALL THIS WAS ENCLOSED.
YES, IT IS JUST AN ABSOLUTE MESS.
WE'RE TRYING TO CLEAN ALL THAT UP AND LEVEL IT ALL OUT SO IT MAKES SENSE FOR MORE USABILITY.
>> I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION ON THE EXISTING NORTH GABLE ELEVATION.
WHEN YOU DID ANY INTERIOR DEMO, WAS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THERE WERE AT ONE TIME WINDOWS?
>> IT'S SUCH A STRANGE MONOLITH.
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ABOVE, THE MASTER, THIS NORTH SIDE.
>> TOP AND BOTTOM. IT'S SO BIZARRE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE NO WINDOWS. [OVERLAPPING]
>> [INAUDIBLE] WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING.
>> THEY DIDN'T LIKE THEIR NEIGHBORS. [LAUGHTER].
>> IS THERE ANY BOARD DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS APPLICATION?
>> NO, IT'S GOOD. I THINK THE DESIGN IS THOUGHTFUL AND APPROPRIATE.
>> WHEN WE DID THE PORCH APPROVAL, WAS THERE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HARDY EXPOSURE VARYING THE EXPOSURE COMPARED TO THE ORIGINAL? WILL YOU MIMIC THAT ON THE NEW BUMP OUTS IN THE BACK?
>> YEAH. ALL THE DETAILS AS SAME AS IT WAS APPROVED.
>> IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE READY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION HERE.
DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE?
I MOVED TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0007 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND IT MOVES THAT HDC MAKE THE FINAL FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE 2024-0007, AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> BEFORE WE CALL THE VOTE, I REALIZED THAT I DIDN'T ASK IF THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO HAD COMMENTS TO MAKE ON THIS APPLICATION.
IT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE I MESSED UP.
>> NO, IT'S OKAY. AS LONG AS IT HAPPENS BEFORE, YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION.
>> THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR NOW.
>> THERE IS A MOTION. COULD YOU CALL THE VOTE, PLEASE?
>> YES. NOW CONGRATULATIONS, PAUL AND JOSE.
KEEP WORKING ON THAT HOW. COME ON.
DID YOU WANT TO HAVE PAID PARKING IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE? [LAUGHTER]
>> I'VE ALREADY GOT THAT IN THE MODE. POLAR 11 SOUTH 7TH STREET.
I REALLY WANTED TO COME UP AND THANK EVERYBODY FOR THE CONTINUED SUPPORT AND ALSO FROM JOSE FOR ALL THE GREAT WORK HE'S DONE IN BUILT TO LAST.
IT'S BEEN MAGNIFICENT EXPERIENCE.
BUT JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ON THAT NORTH SIDE, THE ONLY VISIBLE THING I EVER SAW THAT WAS TAKEN OUT AND I THINK IT WAS TAKEN OUT BY THE OWNER JUST PREVIOUS TO US WAS THE TWO FIREPLACES.
THERE WAS NO WINDOWS THAT WERE THERE.
THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED JUST TO ADD TO YOU, AND I'LL LEAVE BECAUSE I KNOW YOU GOT A BUSY AGENDA TONIGHT BUT I WANT TO ASSURE YOU THE LOVE THAT WE'RE PUTTING INTO THAT HOUSE IS EVEN BEYOND THE CONSTRUCTION ASPECT OF THAT.
RUTH AND I, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO GOT AN INVITE FROM THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH FROM MS. SUSAN, AND SHE INTRODUCED THIS TO A GENTLEMAN CALLED DAVID LOTT, WHO'S ACTUALLY AN ANCESTOR ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIFE OF SENATOR THOMPSON.
[00:15:04]
WE COMPLETELY GOT THEIR FAMILY TREE, AND WE'VE CONSTRUCTED THAT AND DROPPED OUT AND DEPOSITED THAT OFF TO THE HISTORY MUSEUM HERE.ACTUALLY, I THINK IT WAS HIS GRANDFATHER WHO SENT US A LETTER DEFINING HOW THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY IN THE THREE HOUSES, AND SO MANY MISSING PIECES THAT ARE REALLY BEING FILLED IN.
IT'S JUST BEEN AN AMAZING JOURNEY.
THEN THE FENCE IS REALLY FOR THE QUEEN, MS. MOLLY.
FERNANDINA'S PRIME MINISTER, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WILL GO HIGH AT ALL.
I DON'T THINK THEY'LL BE A NEED FOR THAT.
THE HOUSE THAT WE'RE LIVING IN RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE IN AN EXISTING FENCE, THAT'S SHORT AND THEY JUST STAY THERE AND THEN SHE JUST NEEDS A DOGGIE DOOR THAT'S GOT TO GO.
OPEN AND CLOSE SO SHE COMES AND GOES AS SHE PLEASES, SO.
BUT ANYWAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I JUST WANTED YOU TO ADD ON TO THAT.
THAT THERE'S JUST SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF THE HISTORY OF THAT HOME THAT'S COMING UP.
>> THANK YOU FOR THE LOVE YOU ARE SHOWING IN THIS HOUSE.
>> WE'RE ON NOW, STILL UNDER OLD BUSINESS.
>> WE'RE AT NEW BUSINESS. [OVERLAPPING]
[5.1 HDC 2024-0030 - MICHAEL STAUFFER ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR THURSTON LAMONT C REVOCABLE TRUST, 332 S. 6TH STREET]
>> WE'RE UNDER NEW BUSINESS. THAT ONE.
>> YES. AGAIN FOR THE RECORD, ALL REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID AND THE REQUESTED NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE FOR THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST AT 332 SOUTH SIXTH STREET, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO CAR GARAGE WITH AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT ON THE SECOND FLOOR TO CONSTRUCT A NEW DECK OFF OF THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, AND TO ADD DRIVEWAY WALKWAYS AS NEEDED TO SUPPORT ACCESS TO THE STRUCTURES.
>> THE APPLICANT AND EVERYTHING HAS BEEN REVIEWED, CONSISTENT WITH THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS, AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND FINDS IT TO MEET NECESSARY HEIGHT, SCALE, MASSING, AND MATERIALS.
ALL OF THIS IS LOCATED TO THE REAR OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.
AS SUCH, STAFF DOES ISSUE A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON?
THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC TO HDC, BUT IT'S A ZONING QUESTION.
I'LL ASK YOU, AND TELL ME IF IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE.
IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED R2, SINGLE-FAMILY, CORRECT?
THEN THIS MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL IS THE CORRESPONDING LAND USE CATEGORY.
>> IT'S A TWO-FAMILY HOME NOW.
THEN WITH BUILDING THE AD ON THE BACK, POTENTIALLY, IT'S A THIRD APARTMENT BACK THERE OR WHATEVER.
WHAT IS THE ON-SITE PARKING REQUIREMENTS? IT SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE TIGHT IF THERE'S REALLY THREE SEPARATE APARTMENTS THERE.
I KNOW PARKING ISN'T PROVIDED ON-SITE. HOW IS THAT RESOLVED?
>> YOU DO HAVE THE GARAGE THAT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED AS PART OF THIS, SO IT'S OKAY PARKING.
>> SO THE INSIDE IS CONSIDERED?
>> THIS FIRST LEVEL OF NEW STRUCTURE IS THERE TO SUPPORT PARKING.
THE DUPLEX, WHICH EXISTS THERE TODAY IS A GRANDFATHERED USE OF THAT PROPERTY.
IF WE WERE TO ANALYZE IT FOR ZONING AND DENSITY, IT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MEET DUPLEX STANDARDS AS CURRENTLY CONFIGURED.
I CAN RUN THAT CALCULATION JUST TO DOUBLE CHECK IT.
ALL RESIDENTIAL LOTS ARE PERMITTED TO HAVE ONE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT ON THE PROPERTY.
WE DO HAVE STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH ACCESSORY STRUCTURES AND THEN THOSE SPECIFIC TO ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
THERE'S NOT A PROVISION THAT REQUIRES ADDITIONAL PARKING FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.
>> WHAT I OBSERVED IS THAT THEY ARE, I THINK POTENTIALLY PARKING IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY NOW, OFF BETWEEN THE CURB AND THE SIDEWALK, AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE CAN SOMEHOW GET THAT RESOLVED.
>> I IMAGINE THAT'S WHY THEY'D LIKE TO HAVE A GARAGE.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON?
>> KELLY, I REMEMBER WHEN WE APPROVED THE MOST RECENT RENOVATION TO THIS PROPERTY, AND IT INCLUDED A NEW CURB CUT WHERE IT SAYS EXISTING GRAVEL APRON,
[00:20:05]
AND THEY ACTUALLY PUT IN A NEW CURB CUT THERE.NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE PUTTING IN ANOTHER CURB CUT FOR THE GARAGE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT.
I'M LOOKING AT THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS PROVIDED.
OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH STREETS.
CAN PEOPLE JUST POP IN CURB CUTS WHEREVER THEY WANT AND HAVE MULTIPLE?
>> IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS AN EXISTING GRAVEL APRON.
HDC APPROVED THAT WHEN THIS WAS USED FOR A LITTLE GOLF CAR ACCESS AREA.
>> THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO ASK THE APPLICANT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WOULD CONTINUE TO HAVE THAT IN THE FUTURE, IF THEY'D BE ABANDONING THAT AND THEN MOVING THAT ACCESS OVER TO WHERE THE GARAGE IS.
WE NEED TO EVALUATE THAT AGAINST STANDARDS.
HAVING THE GRAVEL APRON AS A CURB CUT, I THINK THE CURB ITSELF MAY STILL BE THERE, AT LEAST BASED ON THE DEPICTED DRAWING.
IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS STILL A CURB THERE, BUT THEY JUST HAVE A GRAVEL PAD THAT'S THERE.
IT MAY NOT REPRESENT THAT YOU HAVE A TRUE CURB CUT, BUT I COULD BE WRONG, AND I'M HAPPY TO PULL UP THOSE IMAGES JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT EXISTS TODAY.
>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S A DROP CURB HERE.
>> I'M SORRY, I ACTUALLY THOUGHT I WAS SPEAKING TO THIS AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT.
>> ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON, OR DO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THIS ONE TO THE APPLICANT?
>> I'LL PULL UP THE CURRENT STREET VIEW SO THAT WE CAN REFER TOGETHER TOO.
>> WE DISCUSSED IT. IT WAS A PRETTY LENGTHY DISCUSSION WHEN WE DID THAT.
IT HAD THE REMOVABLE FENCE PIECES THAT COME OUT TO IT.
>> IS THE APPLICANT SPEAKING, WHAT'S HAPPENING?
>> [OVERLAPPING] WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANTED TO WAIT AND SEE THAT FIRST.
>> WELL, I'M GOING TO HANDOVER THIS DISCUSSION FOR THE APPLICANT.
>> COULD WE ASK THE APPLICANTS TO COME FORWARD.
>> WE CAN RESOLVE ALL THAT ONE.
>> MICHAEL STOVER ARCHITECT, 1417 SADLER ROAD, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.
TO GIVE YOU JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND.
YES, CURRENTLY, THE SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE IS A DUPLEX, IT'S UPSTAIRS AND DOWNSTAIRS.
WELL, THIS IS A TWO-STEP PROJECT.
THE GOAL RIGHT NOW IS TO BUILD THE ADU SO THEY CAN LIVE IN IT.
IN PROCESS, WE'RE GOING TO START DESIGN ON RENOVATING THE HOUSE TO MAKE IT A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE, NOT A DUPLEX, WHILE WE'RE BUILDING ADU.
THEN THEY CAN LIVE IN THE ADU UNTIL WE GET DONE WITH CONSTRUCTION ON THE HOUSE.
YOUR QUESTION IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE THREE UNITS? IT WILL NOT.
IT WILL BE A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IN THE MAIN HOUSE ONCE WE GET TO THAT STAGE.
THERE IS CURRENTLY A CURB CUT THERE.
OBVIOUSLY, WE DON'T LIKE TO GIVE UP ANY CURB CUTS THAT EXIST IF THEY'RE THERE.
BUT YES, WE ARE CREATING A NEW ONE BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION OF OUR GARAGE AREA.
THE PROJECT IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
RIGHT NOW, THEY DO PARK THERE.
INSTEAD OF PARKING IN THE STREET IN THE FRONT, THEY PULL OFF OF THE ROAD THERE AND ACCESS IN WITH THE GATE.
THERE IS AN OPENING FENCE THERE.
YOU CAN SEE THE LIFT ON IT, BUT IT'S GROWING UP WITH THE VINE SO IT DOESN'T FUNCTION.
LET THEM PULL INTO THE BACK YARD VERY WELL. RIGHT NOW, THEY DO PARK THERE.
BUT ONCE THE GARAGE IS THERE, OBVIOUSLY, WE'LL HAVE A DRIVEWAY THAT'S ADEQUATE TO PULL BOTH TWO CARS IN THE GARAGE AND TWO CARS AT LEAST IN THE DRIVEWAY.
WE'RE ASKING FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
IT IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD PROJECT.
THE ADU AND THE GARAGE MEET THE SQUARE FOOTAGE SETBACK AND SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS OF SETBACKS.
WE TRY TO MAKE THE ARCHITECTURE SOMEWHAT COMPATIBLE WITH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE WITH THE ADDITION OF THE LITTLE CANOPY ON THE SIDE.
IT'S A LITTLE COASTAL FLAVOR TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM THAT.
IT DOES HAVE A NICE DECK ON THE SECOND FLOOR OVERLOOKING THE SIDE STREET, LOOKING OVER DATE STREET.
I THINK OTHER THAN THAT, LIKE I SAID, WE'LL BE IN A TWO-STEP PROCESS WHERE WE'LL START DESIGN ON THE HOUSE ITSELF, BUT ONCE WE GET APPROVAL ON THIS, WE MOVE TO CONSTRUCTION OF THE ADU.
I'M CERTAINLY HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.
>> MIKE, WHEN YOU ENTERTAINED THE IDEA OF THE GARAGE AND ACCESS TO IT, WAS IT EVER CONSIDERED TO USE THE EXISTING CURB CUT IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE FOLIAGE THAT IS STILL THERE ON THAT CORNER,
[00:25:01]
WHICH REALLY PROVIDES THE MAJOR CANOPY ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET, RATHER THAN PUTTING ANOTHER CURB CUT IN AND LOSING THOSE TREES RIGHT NEXT TO IT?>> BASICALLY, IN ORDER TO GET TO A GARAGE, IT WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TURNED THE WHOLE BACKYARD.
>> A CURB IS BEAUTY, A LINE IS BEAUTY.
>> [LAUGHTER] THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE MANAGED.
ACTUALLY, WE LOOKED AT AN ACCESS FROM ON THE NORTH SIDE AS WELL, AT ONE TIME, BUT THERE'S TOO MANY TREES ON THAT SIDE TOO NARROW, AND THIS MADE THE MOST SENSE TO COME IN.
WHEN YOU LOOK THE TREES THAT ARE BEING TAKEN OUT THAT ARE IN THE DRIVEWAY ARE THESE TWO THAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT HERE.
>> IT'S SHOWING THAT THAT 37-INCH OAK IS ALSO COMING OUT?
>> THAT IS. NOW, THAT'S COMING OUT BECAUSE IT'S DISEASED.
WE ACTUALLY JUST GOT THIS WEEK AND I CAN FORWARD IT TO STAFF THE FULL REPORT.
JUST TO GIVE YOU HERE'S THE SUMMARY FROM THE [INAUDIBLE] OF THE LOWER LOOK.
IS AN ADVANCED DECLINE WITH SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURAL AND HEALTH DEFECTS, INCLUDING CO-DOMINANT BRANCHES, BLAH-BLAH-BLAH.
BUT BASICALLY THEY'VE LOOKED AT IT AND THE FULL REPORT, I'LL EMAIL TO YOU SO YOU CAN HAVE IT IN YOUR RECORD.
BUT THAT'S NOT IN THE WAY OF OUR DRIVEWAY.
IT'S JUST WHEN THEY WERE LOOKING AT IT.
IT'S JUST SUCH A BIG TREE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE IT DOWN, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S IN JEOPARDIZING BOTH HOUSES, QUITE FRANKLY.
>> FINAL QUESTION ON THIS, WHEN THE NEW CURB GOES IN AND WE HAVE A NEW APRON OUT THERE, WHAT HAPPENS WHERE THE OLD CURB WAS? DOES THAT GET RE-LANDSCAPE, MITIGATION?
>> WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT TO ME, IT WOULD CERTAINLY SEEM THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE JUST TO LANDSCAPE IT, DO SOMETHING.
>> SO THAT WE HAVE A DROP CURB.
THE EXISTING DROP CURB IS WHAT? YOU'D LANDSCAPE THAT.
>> WE NEVER TALKED ABOUT THAT ISSUE.
HONESTLY, IT JUST NEVER CAME UP.
WE'RE HAPPY TO TALK WITH THEM.
THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO SOMETHING REALLY NICE HERE, SO I DON'T THINK THEY'D BE OPPOSED TO ANYTHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE IT WON'T BE NECESSARY.
HONESTLY, IT'D BE A FIFTH PARKING SPOT IF YOU EVEN NEEDED IT AND WE GOT STREET IN FRONT.
>> I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE DOUBLE DOORS ON THE SECOND FLOOR FACING THE FRONT.
DO THEY MATCH SOME OTHER DOORS ON THE ORIGINAL HOUSE? THE BIG SOLID PANELS, I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE APPROPRIATE IF IT WAS A DIVIDED LIGHT OR SOMETHING, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT EXISTS, BUT IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE FOR THOSE, OTHER THAN THE BIG GLASS PANELS?
>> THEY DON'T MATCH ANYTHING ON THE HOUSE.
THERE'S REALLY NOTHING LIKE THAT ON THAT HOUSE.
BUT NO, WE JUST DID THEM WITH JUST PLAIN.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD MATTER IF THAT WAS AN OPINION THAT WE NEEDED TO ADDRESS.
I CERTAINLY COULD TALK TO THE CLIENTS ABOUT IT.
>> I THINK THE DESIGN IS THOUGHTFUL, IT'S APPROPRIATE.
>> THAT WILL BE A NICE ADDITION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S MY ONLY COMMENT.
I ASSUME SECOND FLOOR IS GOING TO BE AIR CONDITIONED, I DIDN'T SEE AC SITE PLAN ON IT?
>> ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE IT, IF YOU GO BACK UP, WE'RE PUTTING THE NEW AC.
>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PIPE OUT TO IT, BUT WE WANTED TO KEEP ALL OF THAT.
>> WE'RE SO TIGHT WITH THE THREE FEET SET BACK AND THAT HAS TO BE FIVE FEET.
>> I THINK I LIKE THAT WEST ELEVATIONS GOT SCALAR ELEMENTS GOING TO BREAK IT DOWN AND MAKE IT LOOK HUMAN SCALE, AND THEN THE SOUTH ELEVATION, THE ONE THAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO SEE IS THE MOST ATTRACTIVE ELEVATION OF THE THING.
I THINK THAT GETS BACK TO THE COMMUNITY BY PUTTING THAT BALCONY THERE AND YOU GET A LOT OF NICE DETAIL FACING THE CITY.
>> THANK YOU. WELL, YOU'LL NOTICE TOO ON THE OTHER TWO SIDES, THERE'S A SIX FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PROPERTY.
I TRIED TO PUT THAT ON THEIR DASH, SO YOU COULD SEE.
IF YOU WERE FEELING WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING ON THE LOWER LEVEL, WELL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT WITH A SIX FOOT FENCE THERE ANYWAY.
>> I DID THINK THAT AND THE FIRST THING I SAW WAS, OH, THERE'S THAT DASH, IT'S JUST YOU'RE ONLY NEVER GOING TO SEE THE FENCE.
>> YEAH, GO ON. THEY ARE NEXT.
[OVERLAPPING] ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WANT TO SPEAK TO THIS CASE?
>> CAN WE PUT SOME CONDITIONS IN ABOUT THAT DROP CURB AND LANDSCAPING?
[00:30:02]
DO WE WANT TO DO CONDITIONALS?>> I THINK FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE BALL GETS DROPPED, JUST IN THE IN THE BIG PICTURE.
FROM REALTORS IN THE BEGINNING TO WHEN DO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SO INTEGRAL TO KEEPING OUR CITY CHARACTER, THE DRAINAGE, THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
IT'S HARDER TO BUILD TO CONSTRAINTS THAN TO JUST CLEAR CUT AND BUILD SOMETHING.
IT MAKES ME A LITTLE CONCERNED EVERY TIME I SEE EVEN A LOBBLER OR SOMETHING OF NOT HISTORIC GIRTH COMING DOWN BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS UP AT OLD TOWN.
WE JUST LOST SO MANY TREES AND THOSE ROOTS WERE JUST STUCK IN IN THE WATER AND WE'RE STARTING TO GET DRAINAGE PROBLEMS HERE.
WHERE DOES IT GO BACK TO THE LDC, THE COMMISSION? THERE'S A MUCH BIGGER ISSUE HERE.
FOR MY CASE HERE, IF THEY'RE AMENABLE, AND I THINK MIKE DOES A GOOD JOB WITH HIS DESIGNS, AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S HARD TO SHOEHORN IN THERE, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THAT IN THERE SO IT'S SHOWN THAT WE'RE CONCERNED BECAUSE, WHY SHOULD WE HAVE THIS BIG GRAVEL PIECE HERE? WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN THAT STREET, THOSE LITTLE TREES AND THE BIG ONES RIGHT THERE.
YOU SEE THAT? THAT GIVES YOU THAT CHARACTER.
IT PROBABLY GIVES THEM A GOOD 10 DEGREES OF COOLING RIGHT THERE.
WE'RE LOSING A HEAT SINK, WE'RE LOSING ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
I DON'T WANT TO HAVE 75 OR 80 FEET OF PAVERS OR GRAVEL OUT THERE.
IF WE'RE ABLE TO SAY THAT SOME TREES ARE PLANTED, NOT SOD, THEN YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO PUT THAT IN THERE.
>> MS. BURKE, IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE CONDITIONS?
>> FIRST, CONDITIONS ARE ALWAYS ACCEPTABLE, BUT IT'S MORE SUBSTANTIVE IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR CODE REQUIRES.
LET ME SAY THIS. FIRST OF ALL, WE KNOW THIS AND I'M NOT BEING CONDESCENDING AT ALL, TREES ARE NOT YOUR PURVIEW, AND I KNOW WE WORRY ABOUT THEM, BUT THEY'RE NOT YOUR PURVIEW.
THE SITE PLANS NOT YOUR PURVIEW, REALLY.
I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO SAY THOUGH, THAT THE GRAVEL, LIKE JUST A SEA OF GRAVEL OR HALF THE BLOCK BEING GRAVEL NOW, THE TREES THAT ARE THERE THAT'S LEADING, THAT'S ALL RIGHT-OF-WAY, BY THE WAY.
THAT'S NOT EVEN THEIR PROPERTY.
THAT'S A CITY CONTROLLED TYPE OF THING.
REMOVAL OF ANY OF THAT STUFF IS DONE WITH CITY STAFF APPROVAL AND ALL OF THAT PART OF IT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW IN TERMS OF FOR A DRIVEWAY, WHERE YOU'RE MAKING ROOM FOR THOSE DRIVEWAY AND YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO TRY TO PRESERVE AND/OR PLANT TREES?
>> NO, NOT PRESERVED. THEY'RE COMING OUT WHERE THEY ALREADY HAD THAT CURB CUT DOWN THERE, RESTORE THAT TO GREEN OR SOMETHING OR OTHER.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT KELLY?
>> WE DO FREE TREE GIVEAWAYS ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND WE ALSO DO REPLACEMENT PLANTINGS ON A REGULAR BASIS WITHIN THE RIGHTS-OF-WAY, AS WELL AS OTHER PUBLIC PROPERTIES THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
THIS IS CERTAINLY AN AREA WHERE REPLACEMENT TREES COULD BE PUT.
>> AGAIN, ALL THAT IS CITY PROPERTY, EVEN THOUGH THE OWNERS HAVE CREATED THE GRAVEL AND THE CURB CUT, THAT'S REALLY CITY PROPERTY.
SO YOUR BEEF IS WITH THE CITY IN TERMS OF TAKING CARE OF THAT.
>> I THINK THERE'S A LIMIT TO THE WIDTH OF CURB CUT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE.
IT MAY BE SOMETHING LIKE 20 FEET. I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.
>> I CAN SPEAK TO THAT. WITH RESPECT, YOU COULD NOT HAVE TWO DRIVEWAY ACCESSES, ESPECIALLY WITHIN THIS DISTANCE.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE 200 FEET BEFORE YOU CAN REQUEST ANOTHER DRIVEWAY POINT ON THIS ROADWAY TYPE.
HOWEVER, AS A CONDITION OF THE APPROVAL AS PART OF THE REVIEW OF THIS, KNOWING THAT THIS OTHER DRIVEWAY WILL GO AWAY TO SUPPORT THE NEW, YOU COULD HAVE THAT THERE BE NEW PLANT MATERIALS PUT IN PLACE WHERE THE OLD DRIVEWAY WAS, THAT WAY, WE KNOW THAT PLANTS WILL GET PUT THERE.
>> CAN THE EXISTING DROP CURB BE REMOVED?
>> THEY CAN MAKE THAT REQUEST [OVERLAPPING] TO RESTORE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND PUT BACK THAT CURB.
>> THAT'S ALL APPROPRIATE. I THINK I MISUNDERSTOOD THAT THIS ONE WAS GOING AWAY AND YOU DON'T WANT TO BE LEFT WITH JUST, I GOT IT.
[00:35:03]
>> DID I ALREADY ASK ABOUT PEOPLE OUT THERE? YES, I DID.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION AND LIST OF CONDITIONS?
I MIGHT FUMBLE THROUGH THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0030 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE EXISTING CURB CUT AND THE RIGHT OF WAY IS RESTORED AND PLANTED.
I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE 2024-0030 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION BY BRYNES AND A SECOND BY POZZETTA.
>> COULD YOU CALL THE VOTE, PLEASE?
>> THAT GOES. THANK YOU, MR. STAUFFER.
[5.2 HDC 2024-0031 - LAUREN KELLY, AGENT FOR DAVID AND HOPE BOSWORTH, 901 SAN FERNANDO STREET]
MS. GIBSON, AND WELCOME BACK, MR. PSULKOWSKI.>> AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, ALL REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID AND NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE ASSOCIATED WITH THE APPLICANT'S REQUESTED ACTION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW SINGLE-FAMILY HOME LOCATED AT 901 SAN FERNANDO STREET.
THIS IS WITHIN THE OLD TOWN DISTRICT OF THE CITY.
THIS IS A REQUEST FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A NEW HOME ON A VACANT LOT, A LOT WHICH DOES CROSS TWO MEDIA PEONIA LOTS AT LOTS 13 AND 14 BLOCK 7.
THE HOME HAS A SMALL FOOTPRINT AT 1,483 SQUARE FEET AND ACCESS BY UNCOVERED PARKING LOCATED OFF OF AMELIA STREET.
THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED SITE DETAILS, LET ME MOVE THAT OVER HERE SO YOU CAN SEE THAT.
SITE DETAILS TO EXPRESS THE CONNECTION AND DEFINE THAT CORRIDOR BETWEEN THE TWO MEDIA PEONIAS WITH DESIGN INTENTION TO REALLY ARTICULATE THE FULL 10 FOOT WIDTH FOR THAT MID-LOT VISIBILITY CORRIDOR, AND THEN OTHERWISE, WORKING TO ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE WITH ALL OF THE MINIMUM SETBACKS AND STANDARDS INCLUDING LOT COVERAGE FOR THE OLD TOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST AGAINST THE OLD TOWN DISTRICT GUIDELINES AS WELL AS APPROPRIATE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND HAS ISSUED A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FROM MS. GIBSON?
>> IS THE APPLICANT PRESENT? COULD YOU COME FORWARD, PLEASE? GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
>> HOPE BOSWORTH, 907 SAN FERNANDO.
>> COULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THIS BUILDING, PLEASE?
>> THE COTTAGE IS INTENDED FOR MY PARENTS.
THEY'RE GETTING OLDER AND CAN'T CLIMB STAIRS, WHICH IS WHERE THEY HAVE TO GO OR WE SWITCH BEDROOMS WHEN THEY'RE AT MY HOUSE NEXT DOOR.
WE'VE WANTED THE LOT EVER SINCE WE PURCHASED THE HOUSE, BUT IT FINALLY CAME AVAILABLE AND UNFORTUNATELY THE PREVIOUS OWNERS TOOK DOWN THAT LOVELY OAK TREE THAT WAS BESIDE US.
BUT WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING NICE WITH IT AND RECOVER THAT LOT.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. BOSWORTH?
>> DIDN'T YOU GUYS BUY THE LOT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF U-2 WHEN YOU'VE BEEN PLANTING?
>> WHEN WE PURCHASED THE HOUSE.
>> YEAH, AND YOU'VE BEEN PLANTING CITRUS AND DIFFERENT THINGS IN THERE.
>> WELL, THE CITRUS WAS PLANTED BY A PREVIOUS OWNER AND WE WANT TO KEEP IT WOODED.
[00:40:02]
I THINK THIS DESIGN IS ONE OF THE BETTER EXAMPLES OF THE MID-LOT CORRIDOR MARKING IT.WE HAVE A DISTINCTIVE INDENTION THERE THAT ACCENTUATES THAT, AND THEN THE DROPPING A SCALE FROM THE MAIN PORTION TO THE MINOR PORTION REALLY ENHANCES THAT.
I THINK THIS SHOULD BE THE POSTER CHILD FOR MID-LOT CORRIDOR AND HOW TO EFFECTIVELY AND ARCHITECTURALLY ADDRESS THAT.
I THINK THAT REALLY CAPTURES WHAT WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR HERE.
WE'VE SEEN EVERY TYPE OF WAY TO ADDRESS IT, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MENTION IT.
I THINK THIS ONE'S ESPECIALLY EFFECTIVE AND REALLY DOES IT THE WAY THAT I HOPE THAT FUTURE ONES DO IT.
NOW, ONLY BECAUSE I MENTIONED ON THE PREVIOUS ONE THAT WHERE'S THE AC UNIT, I DON'T SEE IT ON THIS ONE EITHER.
>> YEAH. IT'S A GOOD SPOT. [OVERLAPPING] THANK YOU.
I THINK THE DETAILING IS VERY APPROPRIATE FOR OLD TOWN.
THE TREATMENT OF THE ROOF IS A NICE FEATURE.
THEN, OF COURSE, OFF-GRID FRAME IS JUST SO IMMEDIATELY EVOCATIVE OF THAT LOOK OF OLD TOWN AND THE HISTORIC VERNACULAR THAT WE WOULD SEE IN THE AREA.
I'M REALLY HAPPY TO SEE THAT YOU'RE REALLY SHOOTING FOR THE WHOLE NINE YARDS ON THIS.
>> VERY NICE. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU.
>> ANYONE FROM THE AUDIENCE LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE? SEEING NONE. BOARD DISCUSSION.
>> WE SAY IT ALL THE TIME, LAUREN AND MOSER, THEY KNOW IT.
THE DESIGN, THE VISIBILITY CARTERS, THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IS VERY INTENTIONAL.
THEY'RE NOT JUST STICKING AN APPLIQUE UP WHERE THE MEDIA PEONIA IS.
[LAUGHTER] THEY'RE NOT POPPING A WEATHER VANE ON TOP OF IT, [LAUGHTER] I LOVE TOO.
I THINK THE MASSING AND HOW THIS READS NEXT TO THE EXISTING HOME.
IT DOESN'T READ LIKE A STEP CHILD OR A MOTHER-IN-LAW.
IT READS AS A BEAUTIFUL, INTERESTING VERNACULAR NEXT TO ANOTHER BEAUTIFUL INTERESTING VERNACULAR.
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A STAMP OR A COOKIE CUTTER.
YEAH, MAN, IT'S A BUMMER WHEN THAT TREE CAME DOWN.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GIS, IT'S LIKE, WOW, LOOK AT ALL THIS CANOPY, AND THEN YOU SEE THE GRASS.
>> JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING FOR A PLACE NEXT TO ANYBODY WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF ME [LAUGHTER].
>> I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE A MOTION.
I MOVE TO APPROVE, I THINK THAT'S HOW IT STARTS.
I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2024-0031 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD, THAT HDC CASE 2024-0031 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE OLD TOWN FERNANDINA PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FULL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> BEFORE THERE'S A VOTE, MADAM CHAIR, POINT OF ORDER, CAN YOU JUST CLARIFY YOU SAID FULL APPROVAL, AND THAT IS AN UNKNOWN TERM HERE. IT'S FINAL APPROVAL.
>> WELL, I READ FINAL AND I SAID FULL.
>> I HEARD FULL, BUT IT'S JUST TO BE CLEAR.
>> FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> MY HEARING COULD HAVE BEEN OFF.
>> I'LL SECOND THAT FINAL APPROVAL.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION BY KOSACK AND A SECOND BY POZZETTA.
COULD YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE?
>> YES. NOW WE'RE ON TO HDC CASE 2024-0032. MS. GIBSON.
[5.3.HDC 2024-0032 - SUSAN DORNER, 606 CEDAR STREET]
>> AGAIN FOR THE RECORD, ALL REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID AND ALL REQUIRED NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE FOR THE APPLICATION IN FRONT OF YOU THIS EVENING AT 606 CEDAR STREET, A REQUEST TO INSTALL A PORTABLE SPA BETWEEN THE MAIN HOUSE AND
[00:45:07]
THE ACCESSORY DWELLING GARAGE STRUCTURE WITH A FENCE LOCATED IN BETWEEN TO SERVE AS MASKING IN BETWEEN IT.I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THE CEDAR STREET RIGHT OF WAY THERE THAT COULD OTHERWISE MAKE THIS A VISIBLE IMPROVEMENT FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY.
FOR BOTH SAFETY PURPOSES, COMPLIANCE WITH THE MINIMUM BUILDING CODE, AND TO MASK IT, A FENCE WILL ALSO BE INSTALLED.
I KNOW THIS IS A LITTLE UNUSUAL GIVEN THAT THE DEGREE OF THIS TYPE OF IMPROVEMENT, BUT THERE IS NO LATITUDE WITHIN OUR CURRENT MATRIX TO ALLOW FOR ANY LEVEL OF STAFF APPROVAL OF THIS TYPE OF IMPROVEMENT.
IT IS HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS WOULD A FULL POOL COMING IN.
IT'S REVIEWED AGAINST THE MINIMUM COMPLIANCE FOR SETBACKS, IMPERVIOUS SURFACE RATIO, AND OF COURSE IT WILL ALSO BE HELD TO THE MINIMUM FLORIDA BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS WHEN IT COMES IN FOR PERMITTING.
STAFF HAS VIEWED THE APPROVEMENT AGAINST THE APPLICABLE DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND HAS ISSUED A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON?
>> I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE SPA, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF WORK OF THE FENCE.
THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE MUCH DETAIL IN IT.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE OVERALL LENGTH OF THE FENCE WHERE IT TERMINATES AS WELL AS THE HEIGHT AND THE MATERIAL.
I SAW A PICTURE THAT'S PRESENTED THAT IS A PICTURE OF A SIX-FOOT FENCE, AND MY CONCERN IS THAT THEY ARE POTENTIALLY PROPOSING A SIX-FOOT FENCE BETWEEN THAT HOUSE AND THE ADU AND GARAGE AND HOW IT ACTUALLY TERMINATES AT THE GARAGE BECAUSE THERE IS AN AC UNIT THAT IS VISIBLE.
I CAN'T SEE IT FROM THIS PICTURE, BUT THERE'S AN AC UNIT THAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY.
IT'S RIGHT UNDER THE STAIR THAT GOES UP TO THE ADU.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION OR IF THAT'S SOMETHING FOR THE OWNER?
>> I CAN PULL UP THE IMAGERY, BUT IT WOULD BE MOST APPROPRIATE FOR THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS THOSE QUESTIONS.
>> ARE YOU THE APPLICANT? YES, MA'AM. LET ME GIVE YOU TO THE MICROPHONE. THERE YOU GO.
>> SUSAN DORNER, 606 CEDAR STREET.
THANK YOU FOR HEARING THIS TONIGHT.
YOU CAN SEE ON THE PLANS WHERE I DREW MY FENCE AND I DREW A SPA, AND I PUT IT AT THE WRONG PLACE.
[LAUGHTER] WELL, BECAUSE I'M IN THERE.
LET ME TELL YOU WHERE IT'S REALLY GO TO BE.
MY SOUTH FACING FENCE, WHICH IS AT THE VERY TOP OF THE PROPERTY, YOU CAN SEE THE WHITE FENCE, IT'S 21 FEET NORTH OF THAT SOUTH FENCE.
I DREW IT ON THE DIAGRAM THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE ALL THE WAY UP AT THE END OF THE GARAGE APARTMENT.
THAT'S NOT WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE.
IT'S ABOUT HALFWAY IN BETWEEN.
YOU'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE FENCE TO GET TO THE STEPS FOR THE ACCESSORY DWELLING.
THE FENCE IS GOING TO BE THE SAME STYLE AS THE CURRENT FENCE.
IS THAT CALLED SHADOW BOX WHERE A BOARD OVER A BOARD? I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S CALLED.
I PUT IN A SIX-FOOT FENCE BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE IF YOU HAVE A SPA IF A LITTLE CHILD WOULD GO IN AND WANT TO GO SWIMMING.
THAT'S WHY I PUT IN A SIX-FOOT FENCE.
NOW, WHAT WAS THE OTHER QUESTION? YOU SAID HOW FAR? IT'S 54 FEET FROM THE END OF THE STREET IN TO THE FENCE, AND THEN 21 FEET FROM THE SOUTH UP.
>> THAT'S HARD TO [OVERLAPPING].
>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF THE HOUSE, IT'S ABOUT [OVERLAPPING].
>> WOULD YOU LIKE TO USE A POINTER? YOU CAN.
>> PUSH THAT AND YOU CAN POINT TO IT.
>> IT'S AFTER THE STEPS START.
YOU SEE THERE'S ONE KITCHEN, WINDOW, TWO, AND IT IS BETWEEN THESE TWO WINDOWS.
YOU SEE THE THREE SMALL WINDOWS?
WELL, THAT'S MY OLD HOUSE WITHOUT THE ADDITION.
[00:50:06]
IT'S ACTUALLY RIGHT AFTER THIS WINDOW IN BETWEEN, IT'S RIGHT ABOUT HERE.>> HOW DOES THE FENCE TERMINATE ON THE STAIR SIDE? WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON THAT SIDE?
>> WHERE YOU SEE THE STAIRS, IT'S JUST GOING TO GO UP BECAUSE I HAVE LITTLE PAVERS RIGHT HERE.
IT'S GOING TO STOP AT WHERE THE POST IS.
I THINK THEY WILL SQUARE IT OFF.
DO YOU THINK IT'S TWO FEET? LIKE HERE, IT WILL COME OUT AND THEN GO IN BETWEEN THESE TWO WINDOWS.
I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO PUT A LITTLE PRIVACY, TEENY TINY, LIKE A FOUR-FEET THAT'S IN FRONT OF THESE AIR CONDITIONER UNITS.
I THINK IT'S MAKING A LITTLE HALF BOX SO YOU DON'T SCOOT IN.
>> ROUND THE POST OF THE STAIRCASE.
>> YES. THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.
IF YOU HAVE A SAFETY FENCE, WHAT'S THE USE OF IT IF YOU CAN JUST GO AROUND THE POST.
>> THERE WILL BE A GATE [INAUDIBLE]?
>> WHAT HEIGHT FENCE IS PERMITTED THERE?
>> KELLY, IS THIS CONSIDERED AN ATTRACTIVE NUISANCE LIKE A POOL?
>> YES. IT'S TREATED THE SAME.
>> IT NEEDS FENCING ON ALL FOUR SIDES THAT CAN'T BE EASILY ACCESSIBLE BY A CHILD OR SOMEBODY THAT SAYS, [INAUDIBLE]?
>> THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE EVALUATED AT THE TIME OF BUILDING PERMIT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WOULD MEET MINIMUM STANDARDS.
>> I SAW SUSAN IT SAYS NO ELECTRICAL REQUIRED.
IT'S A PORTABLE, MEANING I DON'T HAVE TO GET AN ELECTRICIAN WITH THE 220 OR WHATEVER. I DON'T KNOW.
>> THE ONE THING I NOTICED FROM THE PHOTO YOU SUPPLIED OF THE FENCE YOU'RE INTENDING IS IN KELLY, IF YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK THE ATTRACTIVE SIDE OF THE FENCE HAS TO FACE THE PUBLIC, THE NEIGHBORS.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ALL THE SUPPORTING MEMBERS AND ALL THAT ON THE SPA SIDE OF THE FENCE.
>> I WOULD SAY, BECAUSE THE HOUSE LOOKS SO NICE AND THE ADU LOOKS SO NICE, YOU MAY WANT TO UPGRADE YOUR FENCE TO MATCH THE ATTRACTIVENESS OF ALL THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE ON THE PROPERTY.
THIS JUST LOOKS STORE BOUGHT OFF THE SHELF DOESN'T REALLY LEND ITSELF TO THE DETAILING ON THE HOUSE OR THE ADU AND IT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO LOOK THAT GREAT FROM THE BACKSIDE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT IF YOU PUT IT IN NOTES, I BET YOU THE FENCE GUY WOULD.
IT'S JUST LIKE IF YOU SEE, A CRACK, YOU GET USED TO IT. THAT SOUNDS GREAT.
>> DID HE PROVIDE YOU ANY PLANS OR ANYTHING, THE FENCE GUY, OR DO WE HAVE THE FENCE GUY YET?
>> YES. I DON'T HAVE IT SIGNED YET.
I WANTED TO GET THIS STEP FIRST.
HE DOES A LOT OF FENCING AROUND HERE, AND SO HE GAVE ME JUST A LITTLE TEXT QUOTE OF WHAT IT WAS GOING TO COST.
I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH HIM.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU.
>> ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WISH TO HAVE A COMMENT? VERY GOOD. OR DISCUSSION. ANYTHING?
>> WHAT'S FUNNY IS WAS OF THE MINDSET THAT MATCHING THE BACK FENCE WOULD ACTUALLY LOOK THE BEST UNTIL JIM SAID IT WOULDN'T.
NOW I'M SECOND GUESSING MYSELF BECAUSE HE'S A ALL KNOWING ARCHITECT.
IT'D BE A SOLID WALL, AND I GET THAT, BUT I'M A BIG CONTINUITY FAN, WHAT'S THERE.
>> IS IT A MATCH FOR THE ONE IN THE BACK?
>> YEAH, OF WHAT RUNS BACK THERE,
>> THAT IS YOUR FENCE. I THINK MY CONCERN IS I WOULD HAVE NO CONCERN WITH ANY OF THE ABOVE OR THE BELOW IN THIS, WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN FOR THE FENCE.
WE ALL KNOW IT, YOU KNOW IT FIRSTHAND WHEN A CONTRACTOR TELLS YOU SOMETHING AND YOU SAY,
[00:55:03]
GREAT, I GOT APPROVAL.THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU COME HOME AND YOU'RE LIKE, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT'S WHAT IT WAS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
IF YOU THINK IT MIGHT LOOK SOMEHOW, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS MEMBERS ARE GOING TO BE, MOST LIKELY IT'S GOING TO BE FINE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE APPROVING.
WE CAN APPROVE THE SPA, BUT MAYBE CONDITIONALLY HAVE STAFF APPROVE THE FENCE.
>> SUBMIT THE TYPICAL REVIEW PROCESS FOR FENCING.
>> THERE'S SOME DISAGREEMENT OVER STAFF APPROVING THE FENCE.
>> I THINK I'D BE MORE COMFORTABLE IF WE COULD SEE A REAL SITE PLAN WITH THE FENCE, WHERE THE FENCE REALLY IS INTENDING TO BE AND THE CONSTRUCTION.
I UNDERSTAND SIX FOOT IS PERMITTED AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT, BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH JIM THAT THE FENCE SHOULD BE PERHAPS SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT IS AT THE BACK THERE.
>> IT COULD EVEN BE A RIFF ON THAT.
IT COULD BE LIKE A TRUE SHADOW BOX YOU GET MOST SIDES ARE FINISHED, AS OPPOSED TO JUST LIKE A PEDESTRIAN, AND THAT COULD HAVE DIALOGUE WITH THAT, BUT HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE COORDINATE DETAIL THAT WOULD MATCH MORE OF THE HISTORIC HOMES AND THEN THE NEW ADU.
I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD CALL.
>> AM I HEARING THAT WE WANT TO POSTPONE THE DECISION ON THIS REQUEST?
>> COULD I INTERJECT REALLY QUICK? THE APPLICATION INCLUDES THE FENCE FOR ONE REASON, AND THAT IS BECAUSE I KNEW THE FENCE WOULD BE REQUIRED IN ORDER FOR IT TO MEET THE BARRIER STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE IMPROVEMENT AND TO AVOID THE SEPARATE APPLICATION FEE OF $25 AT A STAFF LEVEL OF APPROVAL.
THAT'S THE ONLY REASON YOU'RE SEEING THE FENCE.
THE BOARD NEEDS TO REVIEW THE SPA ITSELF AND IT CAN COME BACK IN SEPARATELY FOR THE FENCE DETAIL.
OR YOU COULD CONDITION THE APPROVAL OF A SPECIFIC TYPE OF FENCE, BUT THIS FENCES ARE STANDARD STAFF APPROVAL ITEMS. YOU ARE SEEING IT BECAUSE IT DOES CORRESPOND WITH THE NECESSARY IMPROVEMENTS, BUT IT WOULD TYPICALLY ONLY BE HANDLED AT A STAFF LEVEL.
>> IS THERE AGREEMENT THEN ON PERHAPS PUTTING A CONDITION IN THIS DECISION TO EITHER DETERMINE THE TYPE OF FENCE THAT'S USED OR SOME DESCRIPTION OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IN THE FENCE? IS THAT APPROPRIATE?
>> I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING IS WE DON'T HAVE A DRAWING THAT SHOWS US WHERE THE FENCE IS GOING TO GO.
>> WELL, SHE TOLD US, WHEN SHE WAS UP THERE, THAT IT'S NOT ACTUALLY GOING WHERE THE DRAWING SAYS IT'S GOING.
>> IT DOESN'T SHOW THE TERMINATION ON THE WEST SIDE.
>> IT'S GOING TO BE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION BECAUSE IT'S ALSO GOING TO WRAP AND SCREEN THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD IDEA, BUT THAT SHOULD ALSO BE SHOWN SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT.
THEN I THINK BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION OF WHERE THE SPA IS SUPPOSED TO GO AND WHERE THE FENCE IS SUPPOSED TO GO, THAT PERHAPS WHERE THE SPA HAS BEEN LOCATED ON THERE IS NOT EXACTLY WHERE THE SPA IS GOING TO GO EITHER.
I THINK, AT LEAST WHAT I'M HEARING THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS IS JUST A SLIGHTLY MORE DETAIL SO THAT WE REALLY KNOW WHAT WE'RE SAYING YES TO WOULD BE HELPFUL.
I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE SPA AND I'M NOT OPPOSED TO A FENCE TO SCREEN IT EITHER.
I THINK WE'RE JUST NEEDING A LITTLE TINY BIT MORE DETAIL.
>> WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE APPROVING.
>> MS. GIBSON, IF WE DETERMINED THEN THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK, WHEN WOULD THAT MEETING HAPPEN?
>> COULD WE APPROVE THE SPA AND THEN KELLY CAN APPROVE THE FENCE?
>> YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING.
>> KELLY, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME ONE MORE TIME ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT THE VOTE.
>> THE FENCE ITSELF IS OTHERWISE A STAFF LEVEL APPROVAL THAT WE
[01:00:04]
WOULD TYPICALLY HANDLE AS PART OF THE PERMITTING TIED TO A FENCE.THE BOARD DECISION-MAKING REQUIRED IS FOR THE LOCATION AT THE SPA AND THE SPA ITSELF TO PLUG IN, WHICH IS WITHIN THAT AREA, IDENTIFIED ON THE SITE PLAN PROVIDED.
BETWEEN THE TWO WINDOWS, WHERE THERE IS AN EXISTING OUTLET, THAT IS GENERALLY WHERE IT HAS BEEN CITED AND IS INDICATED FOR YOU.
ALONG WITH ALL OF THE MATERIALS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SPA THAT WE PLUGGED IN.
>> WOULD IT BE NORMAL TO HAVE TWO VOTES, ONE VOTE FOR THE SPA, AND THEN NO VOTE FOR THE FENCE?
>> IF THE BOARD DOESN'T VOTE TODAY, NO SPA?
>> CORRECT, AND IT WOULDN'T RETURN UNTIL FEBRUARY?
>> IN THE VOTE, CAN THEY PUT RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE FENCE?
>> I THINK IT'S MOSTLY JUST THE DRAWING THAT WE'RE HAVING ISSUES WITH, NOT SO MUCH THE PLAN.
>> I KNOW. I SHOWED YOU WHERE IT IS. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO READ?
>> THIS HOUSE THAT YOU WOULD SEE AT A PERMANENT PHASE?
>> RIGHT. I THINK WE MIGHT JUST NEED TO MOVE IT TO STAFF APPROVAL WITH A LITTLE BIT BETTER OF A LINE DRAWING.
>> THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DETAIL.
>> FOR THE SPA, YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DETAIL.
>> BUT THE FENCE WOULDN'T BE YOUR VOTE, AM I CORRECT? YOU'RE NOT VOTING ON THE FENCE BECAUSE I WAS JUST TOLD THAT WAS STAFF APPROVAL. AM I RIGHT?
>> YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DETAIL ON THE SPA BECAUSE I DREW IT SIX FEET OFF.
>> IS THAT THE LOCATION OF THE SPA?
>> ME SHOWING YOU THAT IT'S GOING TO BE BEHIND THE FENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO WINDOWS ISN'T SPECIFIC ENOUGH? HOW CAN I MAKE IT MORE SPECIFIC SO YOU CAN VOTE ON THE SPA?
>> KELLY, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
JUST FOR THE EDIFICATION OF THE FENCE SITUATION, WHEN WE HAVE PLANS THAT ARE BROUGHT TO US, AN ADU, A POOL, A FULL PLAN OR WHATEVER THAT DO INCLUDE A FENCE, WE DISCUSS, WE LOOK AT, WE PARSE THAT, WE LOOK AT THE PLANS, AND WE VOTE ON THAT.
IN MY MIND, BECAUSE THIS REQUIRES A FENCE AND THE FENCE WAS INCLUDED AS PART OF THIS SUBMISSION, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE APPROVING FOR THE FENCE.
>> THIS IS VERY LIMITED OF WHAT WE'RE EVEN LOOKING AT.
>> THERE WILL NOT BE A VOTE TODAY ON THE SPA?
>> WE HAVEN'T REALLY SETTLED ON THAT YET.
>> BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S THE ONLY VOTE TONIGHT.
>> TO BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED, I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DISCUSS AND GET A BETTER IDEA OF IS WHAT WILL THE END RESULT LOOK LIKE? WHERE WILL THE SPA BE LOCATED? YOU'RE POINTING ON THIS PICTURE, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE WILL BE A FENCE BETWEEN THOSE WINDOWS AND THE SPOT WILL BE BEHIND THAT.
>> CORRECT. AND THEN ANY SPECULATIONS OF HOW YOU WANT THAT FENCE TO LOOK?
>> THE ISSUE IN MY MIND IS IF WE CAN DIRECT OR DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF FENCE SHOULD BE THERE BECAUSE THAT, OF ALL THE THINGS YOU'RE DOING, IS THE THING THAT WILL BE THE MOST VISIBLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.
WHILE IT IS NORMALLY, A STAFF DECISION, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, WHICH IS SQUIDGY FROM EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO, THE FENCE IS THE DEAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE.
>> AND BECAUSE THE SPA IS A PLUG IN PORTABLE.
>> WHERE WILL IT BE KEPT WHEN IT'S NOT PLUGGED IN? IN THE SAME PLACE? JUST NOT PLUGGED IN.0
>> IT WILL BE BIG. IT'S A FOUR-SEATER. YES.
>> WHAT CAN WE DISCUSS ABOUT THE SPA ITSELF THAT WILL MAKE US FEEL BETTER ABOUT THAT PART OF IT?
>> I DON'T HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THE SPOT ALL.
[01:05:02]
IT'S BEHIND A SIX FOOT FENCE.AS LONG AS IT'S CONTAINED IN THAT AREA, WHICH I THINK IS SHE'S SUGGESTING, YOU'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO SEE IT FROM THE STREET.
IT'S ELECTRIC AND WATER, SO IT NEEDS TO BE ON A DEDICATED GFCI, BUT THAT'S BUILDING.
>> THE CONVERSATION IS THE FENCE.
>> IS THERE ANY ISSUE WITH US SPECIFYING THE TYPE OF FENCE?
>> THERE IS NO ISSUE WITH THAT.
>> BUT WHERE WOULD THE LOCATION BE? I DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DESCRIBED IT, AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
>> I GAVE YOU EXACT MEASUREMENTS.
>> BUT IT'S NOT WHAT IS PRESENTED HERE.
IF WE'RE VOTING ON SOMETHING THAT'S PRESENTED, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ON THE SCREEN IS NOT ACCURATE TO WHAT YOU DESCRIBED.
>> IT'S RIGHT ON 21 FT FROM THE SOUTH FENCE AND 56 FEET FROM THE STREET ON THERE.
>> I THINK THAT IT'S A CONVERSATION TO BE HAD WITH THE PERSON PERHAPS INSTALLING THE FENCE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE IT ACTUALLY IS GOING TO GO AND HOW IT TERMINATES AND WRAPS AROUND THE STAIR AND THE AC UNIT AND ALL THAT.
>> DID YOU SAY THERE WAS A GATE IN THE FRONT TOO?
>> THERE WILL BE. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD GET ROUTE TO THE BACK ENTRANCE IN MY HOUSE, SO GET INTO THE UPSTAIRS UNIT.
>> IF AN APPLICANT DIDN'T HAVE A SPA AND THEY WANTED TO PUT A FENCE IN THERE, THEY WOULD COME TO STAFF, THAT WOULD BE AT A STAFF LEVEL, TO PUT A FENCE ANYWHERE MID PROPERTY, NOT PERIMETER, NOT MID ANYWHERE.
YOU WOULD REVIEW THE PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED WITH THE DETAILS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT HIT ALL THE GUIDELINES.
>> WHAT WE'RE MISSING IS THE PLAN AND THE DETAILS.
>> IF IT WAS JUST THE FENCE, WOULD IT COME TO HDC?
>> NO. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
>> IF YOU CAME TOMORROW AND APPLIED FOR A FENCE, IT WOULD BE APPROVED.
>> I GUESS IT JUST COMES BACK TO DISCUSSION.
IF WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE PORTABLE BIG SPA, DO WE APPROVE THAT WITH THE CONDITION THAT AS IF THIS WAS TO COME TO STAFF WITHOUT THE SPA, STAFF WOULD APPROVE THE FENCE.
WE HAVE SAID TIME AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT DESIGN, LET THE DESIGN BE AS IT IS.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD PRESCRIBE WHAT A FENCE IS.
WE'VE GIVEN SUGGESTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS HOW WE THINK IT MIGHT LOOK BETTER THAN DUPLICATING THAT EXACT FENCE BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T DO YOUR PROPERTY JUSTICE.
>> WELL, THAT'S TRUE, BUT WHATEVER YOU GUYS SAID UP THERE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN.
>> IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO TAKE THAT HOME AND TELL MY FENCE GUY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU SAID.
>> I CAN FEEL LIKE THAT FOR THAT.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE IF IT WAS ANY OTHER SET OF PLANS, I'D SHOOT THAT DOWN.
IT'S A SMILEY FACE IN THE DOTTED LINE, BUT HOW MALICIOUS CAN THIS GET? I DON'T KNOW. IT'S A FENCE IN A SPA.
>> I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, MS. DORNER [PHONETIC], WHAT I WOULD NOT WANT US TO DO AS A BOARD IS SET A PRECEDENT FOR AN ARCHITECT TO COME IN WITH A HAND DRAWN DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO TO AN HISTORIC COLUMN.
I JUST THOUGHT SINCE THE FENCE WAS AN AUTOMATIC THING, I'M LIKE, LET ME JUST SAY IT'S HERE.
I HONESTLY THOUGHT YOU WERE JUST HERE FOR THE SPA/
>> THIS IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF AN APPLICATION WHERE A CUSTOMER LOOKING AT BECAUSE THE SPA IS NOT THE SAME AS THE POOL WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, IT CERTAINLY IS NOT THE SAME AS THE ADU THAT YOU HAVE OR ANY OF THE PRIOR WORK YOU'VE DONE ON THE HOUSE.
BEAR WITH US FOR OUR TIME TO DISCUSS AND REACH A CONCLUSION ON THIS.
TELL ME IF I GOT THIS WRONG, GUYS.
WHAT I'M HEARING IS WE ARE TRUSTING STAFF TO HAVE LISTENED TO OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT THE FENCE SO THAT WHEN THE FENCE GOES TO STAFF FOR APPROVAL, STAFF WILL TAKE THOSE THINGS THAT WE'VE STATED INTO CONSIDERATION.
[01:10:04]
ARE WE WILLING TO SAY THAT WE'RE NOT READY TO VOTE ON THIS OR ARE WE WILLING TO SAY THAT WE ARE, BUT JUST DON'T EVER BRING US THE SMILEY FACE AGAIN? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING?>> I DON'T TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE SPA.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW A STAFF COULD REVIEW AND APPROVE THAT FENCE WHEN THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LOCATION OF IT AND THE DETAIL OF IT.
>> WHEN IT GOES TO YOU FOR STAFF APPROVAL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TODAY.
>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO ARTICULATE.
I THINK WE CAN APPROVE THE SPA IN THE LOCATION INDICATED ON THE DRAWING.
>> MAYBE PUT A CONDITION THAT THE FENCE THEN GOES TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
I'D LIKE TO ALSO PUT THE CAVEAT ON THERE THAT THE FINISHED PRETTY SIDE HAS TO FACE CEDAR STREET.
THAT'S THE PUBLIC SIDE, IT NEEDS TO BE THE FINISHED SIDE OF THE FENCE.
I THINK THAT WOULD GET US TO WHERE YOU GUYS COULD GET STARTED WITH YOUR SPA AND STAFF CAN HANDLE REVIEWING THE FENCE WHEN YOU BRING THEM AN ACTUAL DRAWING TO SHOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO.
IT SHOULD ALSO INDICATE WHERE THE GATE IS AND IF IT'S GOING TO WRAP THE EC UNIT. YOU GOT TO SHOW TOO.
>> I'VE HEARD THE FENCE GUY KNOWS HOW TO DO THAT.
BECAUSE YOU ARE ACTUALLY ENCLOSING THAT HOT TUB YOU MENTIONED FOR SAFETY REASONS, BEHIND THE GARAGE AND ADU, IS THERE A SENSOR GATE THERE NOW?
>> I THINK THERE'S A GATE ON THE TINY LITTLE SECTION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE GARAGE.
THERE WAS SIX FEET FROM THE BACK OF MY HOUSE.
>> THERE CAN'T BE ANY ACCESS TO THE SPOT OTHER THAN THROUGH A GATE.
WHEREVER THERE'S EXISTING ALLEYWAYS, IF YOU CAN WALK THROUGH.
>> IT'S ALL ENCLOSED IN THE BACK.
THE ONLY GATE WILL BE IN THE PROPOSED NEW FENCE.
>> BUT THAT WOULD BE CAUGHT AT PLANNING.
>> BUT THERE'S JUST NO FENCE SHOWN ON THE EXISTING SITE PLAN OR GATE OR ANYTHING.
LITERALLY BEHIND THE GARAGE, SO SOUTH OF THE GARAGE.
>> THERE'S A FENCE THERE. THAT'S ALL FENCED IN. IT'S JUST LIKE A WALL.
YOU CAN'T WALK ON THE LEFT SIDE OF MY HOUSE.
>> NO. THE SOUTH OF THE GARAGE.
>> BEHIND THE ADU IS A FENCE, AND THAT IS FENCED IN.
>> KELLY, WOULD YOU MIND PUTTING THE SITE PLAN UP?
>> ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE RIGHT SIDE, THE SOUTH PART, THERE'S A FENCE AND THAT'S FENCED IN.
>> THE SITE PLAN DOESN'T SHOW IT.
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING HERE BLOCK IT OFF THERE AND MAYBE SOMETHING BACK HERE TO STOP YOU FROM GETTING INTO THIS SIDE.
>> DO YOU WANT ME TO POINT? IT'S CURRENTLY BLOCKED OFF.
>> WELL, I THINK HER POINT IS IT'S NOT ON THIS DRAWING.
>> LET'S SEE. LOOKING AT THE GARAGE, THERE IS A FENCE RIGHT HERE.
ACTUALLY, THE FENCE IS RIGHT HERE AT THE DRIVEWAY.
THEN YOU'RE WALKING AROUND THE BACK OF MY HOUSE AND THERE'S A FENCE RIGHT THERE THE BACK OF MY HOUSE.
>> ONCE THE FENCE GOES UP IN THE FRONT, THERE'S NO WAY IN COMES.
>> THANK YOU. ARE WE SETTLED ON WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY HERE? ANY MORE DISCUSSION, TAMMY?
>> COME ON, MR. POZZETTA [PHONETIC], YOU'RE GOOD AT THIS.
>> I SAW SOME SCROLLING OVER THERE.
DID YOU WANT TO TACKLE IT, OR YOU WANT ME TO?
>> NO, I DON'T WANT TO TACKLE THIS ONE.
I'M GOING TO ASK MY BOARD FRIENDS HERE, HOW SHOULD I ARTICULATE THE LOCATION OF THE SPA IN THE AREA THAT THE APPLICANT HAS VERBALLY DESCRIBED?
>> I THINK THERE'S A BRICK PAVER PAD THERE ALREADY? I HAVE GOOD CONFIDENCE IN WHERE I KNOW THAT THAT'S GOING.
>> WELL, BECAUSE THE OTHER THING IS THIS ISN'T EVEN TO SCALE.
[01:15:01]
A SMILEY FACE IS THE SIZE OF TWO CARS , SO MAYBE GENERALLY.>> ARE WE SAYING ON THAT PAD? CAN WE SAY THAT THAT'S ALREADY THERE? HOW ABOUT THAT?
I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0032 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE SPA BE LOCATED ON AN EXISTING PAVED PLATFORM IN THE LOCATION ADJACENT TO THE KITCHEN, IS THAT WHERE THE THING IS? AND THAT THE FENCE BE PROVIDED THE STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL AT A FUTURE DATE.
>> IT WOULD INCLUDE A DRAWING THAT SHOWS EXACTLY WHERE THE FENCE IS SUPPOSED TO GO, WHERE THE GATE'S LOCATED, AND HOW TALL IT IS, WHAT MATERIALS IT IS, AND WHAT THE DESIGN OF THE FENCE IS.
I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD, THAT HDC CASE 2024-0032, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION BY MR. POZZETTA AND THE SECOND BY MS. KOSACK [PHONETIC].
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE.
>> MEMBER SILKOSKI [PHONETIC].
>> WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LONGEST ONE?
>> WHO NEW A SMILEY FACE COULD BRING SO MUCH TROUBLE?
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
>> NOW WE HAVE PRESENTATION ON PVC EXTERIOR.
>> HI. HOW ARE YOU GUYS DOING? IF YOU DON'T MIND, I HAVE A COUPLE OF JUST SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIALS TO HAND YOU IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
>> I WAS CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.
>> THERE'S FOUR BOOKLETS HERE JUST TO BROWSE THROUGH.
CLARIFICATION ALONG WITH A FEW SAMPLES.
THEN I HAVE WHAT WILL GIVE YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF [INAUDIBLE] HERE.
NOW, PLEASE CAUTION WITH THIS ONE THAT'S A LITTLE HEAVIER, BUT THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT THE FINAL PAINTED VERSION OF OUR MATERIAL LOOKS LIKE FOR THE SAKE OF APPROVAL.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS UP HERE TO LOOK AT.
>> WE DO NOT. THIS IS PAINTED ON SITE ACCORDING TO THE COLOR THAT YOU SPECIFY.
THIS WAS ACTUALLY ROLLED ON WITH TWO DIFFERENT COATS OF ROLLERS.` THE WAY WE GET THIS FINISHED IS ACETONE IS ROLLED ON BEFOREHAND BECAUSE IT CREATES THAT CHEMICAL BOND WITH THE SURFACE.
>> THIS IS. HERE, I'LL LEAVE THIS WITH YOU HERE IF YOU'D LIKE [OVERLAPPING].
NOW, I WILL TELL YOU WE DID SUBMIT QUITE A LENGTHY PRESENTATION JUST FOR YOUR EDIFICATION AND EDUCATION.
I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND GO THROUGH THAT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH YOUR TIME OR OUR TIME.
I WOULD RATHER SAVE YOUR TIME.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT AERATIS PVC EXTERIORS HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 2006.
IN THIS COUNTRY, RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE OVER 300 MILLION FEET INSTALLED AS OF THE END OF THIS YEAR, AND TO DATE WE HAVE ZERO PRODUCT FAILURES IN OUR RECORD.
TO ME, THAT GOES TO SHOW WE HAVE A RECORD OF MAKING PRODUCTS THAT ARE BUILT TO LAST.
TO THAT EFFECT, WE CURRENTLY HAVE STANDING APPROVAL IN THE HCC IN HISTORIC NEW ORLEANS, DOWNTOWN.
WE ARE THE ONLY SYNTHETIC APPROVED FOR USE IN HISTORIC NEW ORLEANS.
WE ARE THE ONLY HISTORICALLY APPROVED PRODUCT THAT IS COMPOSITE FOR USE IN DOWNTOWN HISTORIC BLUFFTON, SOUTH CAROLINA.
THAT WAS THE FIRST APPROVAL IN THE HISTORY OF THEIR CITY.
WE HAVE A CASE BY CASE APPROVAL IN CHARLESTON, ALONG WITH KIOWA ISLAND, DOWNTOWN HISTORIC WILMINGTON, AND MANY OTHER CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT THOSE SEEMED TO BE THE MOST PERTINENT TO THE DESIGNS OF FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.
JUST TO FURTHER GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THIS MATERIAL IS MADE OUT OF, IT IS SOLID EXTRUDED PVC,
[01:20:02]
MEANING WE MANUFACTURE IT WITH 100% PVC.THIS IS NOT A CELLULAR PVC WHERE IT HAS WOOD GRAIN IN IT.
THIS IS 100% PVC MANUFACTURED AT A RATE OF THREE FEET A MINUTE.
WE PROVIDE, WHEN INSTALLED, A LIFETIME WARRANTY AGAINST ANY EXPANSION AND CONTRACTION OF ANY KIND WITH A LABOR BACKED WARRANTY.
MEANING IF A JOB GOES DOWN THAT YOU APPROVE IN HISTORIC FERNANDINA BEACH, IT MOVES, BUCKLES, CUPS OR WARPS, AERATIS PAYS FOR THE REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT.
THAT IS A LIFETIME WARRANTY ON THERE.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S 30 OR 60 YEARS FROM NOW, WE STAND BEHIND THE MATERIAL WE PUT DOWN.
>> DO YOU REQUIRE CERTIFIED INSTALLERS?
>> WE DO NOT. WE REQUIRE THAT INSTALLERS BE EDUCATED BY ME IN THE REGION, WHICH I DO VERY OFTEN THROUGHOUT THE AREA, AND THEY SUBMIT ON OUR WEBSITE RECORD OF THE FACT THAT THEY SPOKE WITH US ON THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.
THEY ALSO CERTIFY THAT THEY READ THE DETAILED INSTALLATION GUIDES ON THE WEBSITE.
>> IS IT BLIND NAILING THROUGH THE TONGUE?
>> IT'S ACTUALLY INSTALLED WITH A PNEUMATIC FLOORING NAILER WITH TWO INCH STAINLESS STEEL STAPLES THROUGH THE TONGUE.
WE WERE ABLE TO PASS MIAMI DADE HURRICANE UPLIFT RATING IN USING THOSE STAINLESS STEEL STAPLES, AND WE HAVE ALL THIS TEST DATA AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST, OF COURSE, BUT WITH THOSE STAINLESS STEEL STAPLES, ESPECIALLY GOING INTO VERY OLD LUMBER THAT EXISTS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WE'VE SEEN A SERIOUS SLOWDOWN OF THE DECAY OVER THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, AS WELL AS THE JOIST UNDERNEATH AND UP THE WALLS OF THE STRUCTURE.
WHEN YOU HAVE THAT FUNGAL DECAY THAT SPREADS THROUGH WOOD, THE PROBLEM DOESN'T JUST STOP ON THE GIRDERS OR THE JOIST PROBLEM, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, SPREADS WELL INTO THE STRUCTURE.
WITH A PRODUCT LIKE OURS, IT KILLS MOLD ON CONTACT AND ALLOWS FOR A SERIOUS REDUCTION IN THE OVERALL SPREAD OF THAT DECAY.
>> HOW DOES IT KILL MOLD ON CONTACT? IS THERE SOMETHING IN IT?
SIMILAR TO HOT WATER PIPES, A VERY SIMILAR MAKEUP IS A PORTION OF OUR PRODUCTS MAKEUP.
>> HOW DOES THE PRODUCT PERFORM WITH SOLAR HEAT GAIN? I'M THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE IN BARE FEET AND PETS WALKING ON IT
>> ESPECIALLY WITH LIGHT COLORS, WE DO TESTING EVERY YEAR ON COLORS THAT OTHER MANUFACTURERS MAKE ALONG WITH THE PAINT READY MATERIAL, COMPARED TO THE COLORS THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING WITH MATERIALS SIMILAR TO TREX, TIMBER TECH, FIPON AND FIBERON.
THOSE MATERIALS, WE RUN 30 DEGREES COOLER ACROSS LIGHT COLORS.
THE MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE THAT OUR DARKEST COLOR CAN ACHIEVE IS 145 DEGREES.
IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT, YOU WILL NOT BE BURNING YOUR FEET NEARLY THE SAME EXTENT THAT YOU MIGHT ON A TREX OR A FIBERON.
AGAIN, THAT DATA IS ALL AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST.
WE DO THIS TESTING EVERY SINGLE YEAR, AND WE DO IT RANDOMLY ASSORTED THROUGH EVERY UNIT THAT GETS MANUFACTURED.
>> YOU HAVE TRIM PIECES AS WELL AS THE TONGUE AND GROOVE?
>> WE MAKE STAIR TREAD, WE MAKE TRIM TO FINISH THE ENDS.
THAT MATERIAL THAT YOU HAVE UP THERE THAT IS PAINTED IS ACTUALLY MALLEABLE.
WE MAKE THAT MATERIAL SO THAT YOU CAN TAKE A ROUTER TO THE EDGE TO CREATE YOUR OWN BULLDOZE BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT FITS MORE OF THE HISTORIC LOOK TEXTURE AND FEEL AS WELL.
>> IT'S SITE PAINTED, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER.
THERE'S NO COLORATION, NO GROOVE.
>> NO COLORATION. THE PRODUCT THAT YOU SEE THAT TAN COLOR, WE PUT IT IN THERE JUST TO HAVE THAT LOOK, BUT THERE IS NO ISSUE WITH TAKING THE FACE OFF AND THEN PAINTING OVER IT.
>> ONE OTHER THING, THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE INSTANCES WHERE YOU HAVE TO FACE NAIL OR FACE INSTALL SOMETHING.
WOULD THAT BE A SCREW, A NAIL? IS THERE A CONSIDERATION OF MUSHROOMING OF WE GO TO D?
>> WE UTILIZE A PLUG SYSTEM THROUGH A COMPANY THAT MANUFACTURES PLUGS FOR US.
THOSE HAVE A SPECIFIC BIT THAT IS UTILIZED THAT ONLY ALLOWS IT TO COUNTER SINK A CERTAIN LEVEL, SO WE'RE NOT AS CONCERNED WITH THE MUSHROOMING.
THE OTHER FACTOR IS YOU CAN ACTUALLY SCREW THROUGH WITHIN A QUARTER OF AN INCH TO THE END OF OUR BOARDS AND IT DOESN'T BLOOM OUT THE SIDE.
YOU'RE NOT SEEING THAT PUSH OUT BECAUSE OF THE DENSITY.
>> WHAT JOIST SPACING DO YOU GUYS REQUIRE?
OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN GO MORE NARROW, BUT 16 ON CENTER WAS THE HISTORIC STANDARD WE FOUND THAT WAS MOST VALUABLE.
I WILL LET YOU KNOW, AS WELL, WE ALSO MANUFACTURE ALONG WITH THAT, TO HISTORIC SPEC, A BEADED CEILING BOARD THAT GOES UP 24 ON CENTER FOR THOSE NECESSARY STRUCTURES.
>> IS IT INDIVIDUAL TONGUE AND GROOVE BEADS?
>> IT IS. IT'S INDIVIDUAL BOARDS, AND THERE'S A HISTORIC BEAD ON ONE SIDE AND THEN A MORE MODERN BEAD ON THE OTHER SO THEY CAN FLIP AND CHOOSE.
>> IT'S MORE OF A WIDER BEAD VERSUS A TIGHTER BEAD.
I THINK THERE'S EXAMPLE PHOTOS IN THERE IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE THOSE.
I WILL TELL YOU AS WELL, THE OTHER MAJOR FACTOR THAT HISTORIC DISTRICTS SEEM TO REALLY ENJOY IS THAT THE PAINT-READY MATERIAL THAT YOU HAVE THERE, THAT PAINTED DARK BLUE EXAMPLE HAS A REPAINT CYCLE IN COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS OF 7-10 YEARS,
[01:25:02]
SO THE MAINTENANCE DRAMATICALLY DECREASES OVER TIME.YOU'RE LOOKING AT, FOR AN AVERAGE HOMEOWNER IN THEIR MAIN WALKWAY, TOUCHING UP EVERY 10 YEARS, VERSUS PARTS OF THE PORCH WHERE YOU'LL NEVER TOUCH AGAIN WITH PAINT UNLESS YOU DECIDE THAT IT'S FADED BEYOND WHAT YOU'D LIKE.
BEYOND THAT, I'LL ALSO SHOW YOU THE EXAMPLE THAT I BROUGHT JUST, AGAIN, FOR EDUCATION PURPOSES.
WE MANUFACTURE OUT OF THE EXACT SAME IDENTICAL MATERIAL, BOTH LAP SIDING THAT IS MADE TO MIMIC CYPRESS.
>> DON'T YOU DO PALETTES OR PLOTS ON PICKETS TOO?
>> WE DO. THIS IS OUR EXAMPLE OF THE LOUVERED SHUTTER.
WE MAKE BAHAMA SHUTTERS, AND THEY'RE MADE EXACTLY TO SPEC AND REQUIREMENT.
I'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO HANDLE IT TO FEEL T.
HERE'S AN AMOUNT OF WEIGHT TO IT THAT SHOWS THAT DENSITY.
THESE, IN ADDITION, ALSO HAVE THAT LIFETIME WARRANTY, SO WE NO LONGER, HOPEFULLY, HAVE HISTORIC SHUTTERS FALLING OFF OF HOUSES AFTER A FEW YEARS.
>> IT SAYS ON THE BACK HERE THAT IT CAN BE MADE WATER TIGHT.
DOES IT NEED SOME SORT OF A COATING ON IT? I WOULD THINK IT ALREADY IS WATERTIGHT.
>> WE LIKE TO DEFINE THAT WITH THREE DIFFERENT STAGES.
THIS MATERIAL IS PRETTY DARN WATER TIGHT I WOULD SAY.
YOU GET A HANDFUL OF DRIPS, AND THAT'S SUFFICIENT GENERALLY FOR A CRAWL SPACE WHERE YOU'RE GETTING MINIMAL TO NO WATER THROUGH.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE DRY STORAGE WHERE YOU SEE ALMOST NO WATER THROUGH, IF ANY, WE RECOMMEND PUTTING A BEAD OF SILICONE IN THE GROOVE AND THEN PUSHING THEM TOGETHER.
THEN WE ALSO PROVIDE WATERPROOFING WITH A LIFETIME WARRANTY WITH ADVANTECH ON THE JOIST, THEN GRACE ICE AND WATER SHIELD, AND THEN SLEEPERS AND THEN OUR MATERIAL, BUT THAT ALSO ALLOWS FOR WATER PROOFING WITH ONLY SIX INCHES ADDITION RATHER THAN 18 LIKE A LOT OF MODERN DAY PRODUCTS.
>> IS THIS THE PRODUCT THAT MR. RICE AT OUR LAST MEETING WAS TALKING ABOUT USING?
>> YEAH. IT LOOKS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE THE OTHER PERSON HERE FOR THAT, BUT THE MATERIALS ARE HERE.
>> THEY'VE LEFT THEIR MATERIALS, BUT THEY DIDN'T COME WITH THEM?
>> [INAUDIBLE] PUSHED THEM OVER. [LAUGHTER].
>> I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS. WHERE WOULD YOU SAY YOU COMPARE YOURSELF PRICE-WISE WITH ALL THE OTHER PRODUCTS OUT THERE?
>> ACTUALLY, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THIS MARKET, WE FALL DIRECTLY IN LINE WITH THE MIDDLE TIER TRACKS OPTIONS.
WE'RE ABOUT 10-15% CHEAPER THAN AZEK, PVCS AND FIBERON.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS WE MANUFACTURE OUR PRODUCTS TO A HISTORIC WIDTH, WHEREAS THEY TYPICALLY ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE NARROW, OR IF YOU HAVE GAPS LIKE A LOT OF MODERN DAY BOARDS, YOU PAY FOR THE GAPS IN BETWEEN.
WHEN IT COMES TO CONCESSIONS FOR THE PRICE OF INSTALLATION, OUR LABOR TIME IS SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED, ESPECIALLY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHERE YOU REQUIRE THE TRADITIONAL INSTALLATION, MEANING THE PNEUMATIC FLOORING NAILERS SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE FACE SCREWS.
WE HAVE ISSUES WHERE WE MIGHT HAVE A PRODUCT THAT IS APPROVED, BUT THEY'RE NOT INSTALLING IT PER THE GUIDELINES.
IF SOMEBODY'S COMING IN THEY'RE JUST GOING THROUGH THE TONGUE, WHAT KIND OF FAILURE MIGHT HAPPEN TO THIS THAT YOU WOULD NOT COVER ANYMORE.
>> THE INSTANCES WHERE WE SEE ARE INSTANCES OF INSTALLATION FAILURE REALLY TEND TO CENTER AROUND INSTALLATION DIRECT TO PLYWOOD, WHICH, OF COURSE, PLYWOOD OVERTIME CURLS AND PVC DOES WHAT FOLLOWS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
IF SOMEBODY IS INSTALLING IT DIRECT TO A PLYWOOD, WE SEE ISSUES.
IF SOMEBODY CHOOSES TO SCREW THROUGH THE TONGUE OF OUR MATERIAL, IT IS NOT BEST PRACTICE, BUT IT IS STILL A SUPPORTED INSTALLATION METHOD.
NOW, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO FACE NAIL, THE MATERIAL IS GOING TO LOOK NOT GREAT, BUT YOU'RE ABLE TO FILL THOSE VOIDS WITH BONDO AND THEN PAINT OVER THE SURFACE AS WELL, BECAUSE IT HAS THE CEILING CAPABILITIES.
NOW, I WILL TELL YOU THE PAINT THAT WE RECOMMEND, WE HAVE IT ALL OVER THE WEBSITE, BUT ESSENTIALLY EVERY MAJOR BRAND, WE HAVE A LINE OF PAINT WE RECOMMEND, IT'S 100% ACRYLIC BASED.
THIS IS ABOUT THE TOUGHEST PAINT THAT THEY MAKE, AND WE REQUIRE THOSE TO BE USED TO ACHIEVE THAT WARRANTY.
THAT'S BECAUSE IT GETS THE LIFETIME THAT WE EXPECT OUT OF EACH PAINT CYCLE.
I WILL ALSO TELL YOU THAT IN MY EXPERIENCE, BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR A HISTORIC CITY SUCH AS FERNANDINA BEACH, WOULD BE TO FOR A TIME DECIDED UPON BY THE BOARD, APPROVE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
THAT WAY IT ALLOWS FOR MORE REVIEW MOVING FORWARD AS THE CONTRACTORS BECOME MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE INSTALLATION.
[01:30:02]
IT ALLOWS A LITTLE MORE CONTROL RATHER THAN A BLANKET APPROVAL.THAT'S WHAT HISTORIC BLUFFTON DECIDED TO DO.
WE HAVE THREE PROJECTS SCHEDULED AND THEY EACH HAD TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD FOR APPROVAL.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT CREATES A TIME RESTRAINT ON SOME PEOPLE.
BUT IF IT EASES YOUR MIND ON THE ISSUES THAT CAN COME WITH INSTALLATION, OF COURSE NOBODY CAN STOP A CONTRACTOR FROM DOING WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, BUT IT MAKES IT EASIER WHEN THEY COME BEFORE YOU GUYS AND SAY, YES, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS EDUCATION PROCESS.
>> SMALLEST WIDTH, LARGEST WIDTH, I CAN'T GET THIS ONE.
>> THE SMALLEST WIDTH WE MAKE IS A THREE AND AN EIGHTH, THAT HISTORIC WIDTH, AND THEN WE ALSO DO A SIX INCH MATERIAL.
I JUST DIDN'T SHOW UP BECAUSE TYPICALLY IT IS NOT CONSIDERED TO HISTORIC SPEC.
BUT THAT BEING SAID, THIS MATERIAL IS SIX AND IT IS A TRUE SIX INCH FACE.
THIS IS ALSO USED COVERED OR UNCOVERED.
PEOPLE USE IT TO REPLACE DECKS THAT THEY DON'T WANT WATER SHEDDING DOWN.
SECOND STORY BALCONY, THEY DON'T WANT WATER [INAUDIBLE].
>> THAT IS A PREFINISHED PRODUCT.
THAT HAS AN ACRYLIC CAP ON IT.
NOW, WHAT I WILL TELL YOU IS EVERY PRODUCT WE MANUFACTURE HAS THE SAME EXACT PAINT RATING.
IF YOU TAKE THAT PREFINISHED LINE AND YOU DO THE EXACT SAME PAINT PROCEDURE, YOU GET THE SAME PAINT PERFORMANCE.
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT HAS AN ACRYLIC CAP AND IS PREFINISHED WITH A COLOR, A DYE IN IT, AND THEN ALSO HAS A UV INHIBITOR IN IT FOR A FADE RATE.
IT PROVIDES US WITH A REDUCED FADE OVERTIME, WHICH OUR FADE RATE ON OUR PREFINISHED LINE IS HALF A PERCENT IN 20 YEARS.
WE WARRANTY THAT HALF A PERCENT IN 20 YEARS.
IF IT'S MORE THAN HALF A PERCENT IN 20 YEARS, WE REPLACE THE MATERIAL FOR FREE.
IF IT'S UNDER THAT, THEN THAT'S WELL WITHIN EXPECTED STANDARDS, AND ALSO IS A CLASS ABOVE MOST OTHER PRODUCTS THAT ARE MANUFACTURED TODAY.
>> KELLY, ANSWERED A GOOD QUESTION THAT I WAS ABOUT TO HAVE FOR YOU BEHIND YOU.
TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR DIFFERENT TIERS OF PRODUCTS.
WALK ME THROUGH WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
>> THEY ALL HAVE THE EXACT SAME PERFORMANCE. THAT PART'S EASY.
THEY HAVE EXACTLY IDENTICAL PERFORMANCE BECAUSE THE PREFINISHED LINES HAVE THE ACRYLIC CAP AROUND THEM.
IT'S MANUFACTURED ONTO THE SURFACE.
WHEN WE APPLY THIS PAINT READY MATERIAL DOWN AND THEN PAINT IT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE PAINT INSTRUCTIONS, YOU'RE CREATING THE EXACT SAME ACRYLIC CAP WITH THE PAINT.
>> WHAT CHANGES IN BETWEEN YOUR TRADITION LINE, YOUR LEGACY LINE?
THE HERITAGE IS THE THREE AND AN EIGHTH PREFINISHED COLORS, AND TRADITIONS IS MADE TO BE PAINTED.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE TRADITIONS BOARD IS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THERE'S NO DYES IN IT AND THERE ARE NO UV INHIBITORS.
IF THAT WHITISH MATERIAL GOES DOWN, IT WILL TURN WHITE OVER TIME AS THE SUN HITS IT.
THAT'S WHY WE SAY IT'S PAINT READY AND IT IS REQUIRED TO BE PAINTED BECAUSE THEN YOU CREATE THE ACRYLIC CAP.
BUT AGAIN, EXACT SAME PERFORMANCE OUT OF ALL OF THEM, THEY HAVE THE SAME DECAY RATE, SAME WATER ABSORPTION RATE, AND SAME EXACT INSTALLATION METHODS.
ACCEPTING THE OTHER MATERIALS THAT ARE PREFINISHED, AS YOU CAN TELL, IS A SLIGHT DIFFERENT COLOR ON THE ENDS.
WE WOULDN'T RECOMMEND TAKING A ROUTER UNLESS YOU WANT TO PAINT MATCH AND THEN PAINT THOSE ROUTED ENDS.
>> WITH THE TRADITIONS LINE WHERE IT'S PAINTED, I BELIEVE YOU SAID EARLIER, THAT THE PAINT FINISH WILL HOLD UP FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS.
>> WE SAY IT'S 7-10 IN COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS.
THAT TESTING IS DONE ON RESTAURANTS IN THE VIEUX CARRE IN NEW ORLEANS AND THEN ALSO IN DOWNTOWN CHARLESTON.
>> ACETONE COAT BEFOREHAND AND THEN ROLLING ON TWO COATS OF THE REQUIRED PAINT.
NOW, NOT NECESSARILY AS PERTINENT TO YOU, I SUPPOSE, BUT MAYBE IT IS FOR CONSIDERATION, WE PROVIDE THAT PAINT FOR FREE.
WHEN THE CONTRACTOR BUYS THE APPROVED PAINT AND SUBMITS IT ON THE WEBSITE OR RECEIPT FOR THE PAINT AND THE PRODUCT, WE SEND THEM A CHECK IN THE MAIL FOR THE PAINT, WHICH ENCOURAGES THE CORRECT PAINT IS USED.
IT ALSO ALLOWS US TO KNOW A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ABOUT THE JOBS BEING DONE.
IT ENSURES THAT I HAVE A CONNECTION TO THE MATERIAL THAT'S BEING SENT OUT.
>> I THOUGHT I SAW IT HAD ADA SLIP COMPLIANCE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. THE PREFINISHED LINES ARE ADA SLIP COMPLIANT WET OR DRY.
EVERY DAY IN NEW ORLEANS ON RAMPS, THEY HAVE TO HAVE HANDICAP ACCESS RAMPS FOR THEIR COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES.
WE GET USED THERE. THAT GOES FOR OUR STAIR TREAD MATERIAL AS WELL.
NOW WITH THE TRADITIONS, THAT PAINT DOES NOT MEET THE SAME ADA SLIP COMPLIANT REQUIREMENTS.
HOWEVER, WE ARE ABLE TO HAVE AGGREGATE PUT IN THAT PAINT AT WHATEVER TIER YOU WOULD LIKE.
WE RECOMMEND THE FIRST COAT THAT GOES DOWN HAS ZERO AGGREGATE, AND THEN THE SECOND COAT HAS THE AGGREGATE IN IT BECAUSE THAT MAKES SURE THAT AS THAT AGGREGATE IS CHIPPED OVER TIME,
[01:35:02]
WHICH JUST HAPPENS WITH FOOT TRAFFIC, YOU DON'T SEE THROUGH THE COLOR.>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, VERY MUCH.
>> HOW DO YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT THE OTHER PEOPLE STUFF?
>> WELL, DO WE NEED TO VOTE ON THIS ONE?
>> I DON'T KNOW. I THINK WE SHOULD DISCUSS THIS FIRST.
>> ROB PSULKOWSKI, 710 BEECH STREET.
I AM GETTING MORE AND MORE FRUSTRATED AS LIFE GOES ON.
YOU RUN A COMPANY CALLED BUILT TO LAST AND THEN YOU PUT DOWN ULTRAWOOD THAT YOU'VE BEEN PUTTING DOWN FOR 13, 14 YEARS, WHICH IS KILN DRIED, PRESSURE TREATED, PRIMED ON ALL SIDES, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE CUSTOMER SAY, WHY DID IT SEPARATE AN EIGHTH OF AN INCH? IN SOME CASES, I'VE GOTTEN THE MONEY BACK ON THE MATERIAL, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO PAY MY LABOR.
YOU END UP REPLACING THINGS FOR GRATIS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE STANDING BEHIND THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE.
I THINK I'M PUTTING DOWN THE BEST PRODUCT I HAVE.
WE'RE READY TO BID 302 SOUTH 7TH STREET, WHICH IS GREG ROLAND'S HOUSE, THE TWO STORY HOUSE.
THE TURNED WOOD SPINDLES ARE ROTTING.
AS GREG SAID, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE THIRD PORCH FLOOR THAT I'M GOING TO PUT DOWN IN MY LIFETIME.
HE SAID, I'M GETTING TIRED OF THIS.
IT'S FRUSTRATING WHAT HAS HAPPENED.
THE ULTRAWOOD THAT DYLAN, TONY AND I PUT ON OUR FRONT PORCH PROBABLY 10 YEARS AGO, IT IS PERFECT.
YET THE ULTRAWOOD THAT I'M PUTTING DOWN NOW, IT'S JUST NOT DOING IT.
I CAN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT.
>> IT'S SO WET. IT'LL TWIST IN THE MIDDLE.
>> WE DID PAUL'S FRONT PORCH, AND GOD BLESS HIM.
WELL, ACTUALLY, RUTH OILED IT, BUT THEY OILED THE WHOLE DOWNSTAIRS. IT LOOKS GREAT.
I EVEN SAID TO PAUL, DOWN THE ROAD WHERE WE MIGHT GET AND HE SAYS, OH, NO, NO, WE WANT WOOD. THAT'S PAUL.
BUT IN THIS CASE, I'M JUST GETTING TIRED OF IT, AND I'M TIRED OF SEEING A REALLY GOOD INSTALLATION GO SOUTH FOR NO REASON.
I'D LIKE TO DELIVER GREG ROLAND, THE LAST PORCH FLOOR THAT HE EVER PASSED TO PUT DOWN.
>> I THINK FOR [INAUDIBLE], IS THAT HOW YOU?
>> [INAUDIBLE]. WHAT WOULD BE SO COOL IS IF THEY MILLED A PRODUCT THAT WAS EVER SO SLIGHTLY CUPPED.
[LAUGHTER]. IT'S LIKE, LOOK AT THIS OLD ORIGINAL.
>> I'LL DO WITHOUT THE CUPPING.
>> SHOW ME A HISTORIC HOUSE WITH FRONT BOARDS LIKE THAT.
>> THERE YOU GO. TAMMY AND HER LOVE OF THE [INAUDIBLE].
>> I WANT TO CUT ON THAT PRODUCT.
>> MS. GIBSON, IS IT POSSIBLE THIS MATERIAL CAN BE PLACED ALONG WITH HISTORIC MATERIALS OR IS IT AN ALL OR NOTHING APPLICATION?
>> OUR RECOMMENDATION TYPICALLY IS THAT YOU NOT INSTALL IT DIRECT TO THE OTHER MATERIAL.
REASON BEING OUR MATERIAL WILL HOLD MORE FAST, AND IN SOME INSTANCES, IT CAN ACCELERATE THE ISSUES THAT EXIST WITH THE OTHER MATERIAL.
IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS INSTALLING TONGUE AND GROOVE WOOD BETWEEN TWO STEEL PLANKS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.
YOU'RE THEN GOING TO SEE EVER MORE ISSUES OVER TIME.
I WILL TELL YOU TO YOUR POINT, WE HAVE MANY HISTORIC DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY THAT UTILIZE US ESPECIALLY THROUGHOUT VIRGINIA THAT REQUIRE THAT OUR MATERIAL BE DISTRESSED BEFORE IT GOES DOWN, WHICH MEETS OUR REQUIREMENTS.
THE BEST PRACTICE DISTRESSING IS TO PLACE PEA GRAVEL OVER THE SURFACE, HAVE PEOPLE WALKING OVER IT, ROLL OVER IT, AND THEN REMOVE IT, AND THEN WHEN YOU ACETONE AND PAINT, IT HAS THE EXACT SAME PERFORMANCE AS IF YOU DIDN'T DO THAT.
I NEGLECTED TO MENTION BEFORE AS WELL, THIS PRODUCT CAN BE STAINED.
WHEN I SAY PAINT, A LOT OF PAINTS AND STAINS TODAY ARE THE SAME.
WE DON'T DO OIL-BASED STAINS AS MUCH ANYMORE BECAUSE OF OFF-GASSING.
LINES LIKE CABOT NOW MAKE AN ACRYLIC BASED STAIN.
FOR THOSE VERY HISTORIC LOOKING STAINED PORCHES, THAT YOU WANT TO MATCH THAT EXISTING MATERIAL, THIS PROVIDES THE SAME SOLUTION.
>> I KNOW THIS MILLS LIKE LUMBER, DO YOU NEED A SPECIAL BLADE INSTALLING?
>> NO. WE DON'T REQUIRE SPECIAL BLADES.
I'LL TELL YOU IT DOES TEND TO DULL BLADES FASTER.
OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A MORE DENSE MATERIAL, SO WE RECOMMEND HAVING AT LEAST THREE BLADES HANDY AS YOU DO THE INSTALL.
THAT'S JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVER WANT, ESPECIALLY ON A HISTORIC APPLICATION TO SEE ENDS THAT GET CUT UNEVENLY OR ENDS THAT ENDED UP CHIPPED.
[01:40:03]
THAT BEING SAID, WORST CASE SCENARIO, YOU APPLY BONDO TO THE BOARDS AND THEN PAINT OVER IT AND IT DECREASES YOUR MARGIN FOR ERROR, SO TO SPEAK.>> KELLY, THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, IS THE ANSWER GOING TO PRESENT ISSUES?
>> NO. I THINK SOMEBODY COULD STILL MAKE APPLICATION FOR USE OF THAT MATERIAL ALONGSIDE THE HISTORIC MATERIAL, BUT THEY NEED TO DO THAT WITH THOSE CONSIDERATIONS IN MIND THAT IT WAS [INAUDIBLE].
>> WE ALLOW COMPOSITES ON THE REAR OF PROPERTIES.
WE DO NOT ALLOW COMPOSITES ON FRONT ELEVATIONS.
THAT'S WHAT OUR GUIDELINES SAY.
REALLY, A HOMEOWNER CAN USE WHATEVER THEY WANT ON THE REST OF THEIR HOUSE.
IT COULD BE THIS, IT COULD BE TRACKS, IT COULD BE ANYTHING ELSE.
I THINK MY CAVEAT TO THIS WOULD BE IT'S A GREAT PRODUCT.
I LIKE THE TRADITIONS, I THINK THAT HAS TO BE PAINTED.
I THINK ONCE WE GET INTO A CAPPED, WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A PLASTICITY EFFECT GO ON, IT'S TOO UNIFORM, AND THIS IS WHY WE'VE SAID NO COMPOSITES ON THE FRONT BECAUSE THEY'VE COME A LONG WAY.
SOME OF THEM EVEN HAVE VARIATIONS IN DIFFERENT GRAINS, BUT WE'VE SAID NO COMPOSITES ON THE FRONT.
I FEEL LIKE IF WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW THIS ON THE FRONT OF A PROPERTY, IT HAS TO BE THE TRADITIONS BECAUSE THAT HAS TO BE PAINTED.
THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHTS FOR BOARD DISCUSSION.
>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT, CERTAINLY VALID.
>> THIS IS THE TRADITIONS EXAMPLE.
WHEN YOU PAINT IT, WHAT MAKES IT LOOK?
>> WELL, FOR STARTERS, WE'RE GOING TO GET GUYS THAT ARE BRUSH PAINTING IT AS WELL AS DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
YOU GET LAP MARKS, BRUSH MARKS, YOU GET A PAINTED COATING AS OPPOSED TO LIKE THIS VERY.
>> PREFINISHED MODERN [INAUDIBLE].
>> YES. PREFINISHED LITTLE CAP ON IT THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU ANY CHARACTER AT ALL. CORRECT.
>> DID YOU WANT US TO VOTE ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE?
>> NO. I THINK TODAY IT WAS REALLY A PRESENTATION FOR THE BOARD CONSIDERATION SO THAT WHEN APPLICATIONS DO COME IN THAT IT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED.
AND IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC LINE, THAT WAY I CAN SIGNAL PEOPLE TO LOOK FOR THAT WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THOSE PROPOSALS.
THE DISTRESSING, I THOUGHT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
I'M THINKING BACK TO A PROJECT THAT WE HAD EARLIER THIS YEAR FOR THE B & B RIGHT HERE ON ASH STREET, WHERE THEY WERE LOOKING TO REPLACE THAT FRONT PORCH, AND THEY WANTED TO DO A COMPOSITE TYPE OF MATERIAL.
WE HAD A LOT OF HEARTACHE ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT THEY'VE MOVED FORWARD ON THAT PROJECT AT ALL AT THIS POINT.
IN THAT KIND OF APPLICATION, WHAT WOULD THE BOARD REALLY BE LOOKING FOR WITH PERFORMANCE ON A PRODUCT LIKE THIS? I THINK THAT'S WHERE I'M HOPING TO GET SOME DIRECTION FROM THE BOARD SO THAT I CAN PASS THAT ALONG TO APPLICANTS AS THEY COME IN TO BE BETTER PREPARED WHEN THEY COME TO THE BOARD.
>> WHAT MS. GIBSON IS LOOKING FOR IS A LITTLE BIT OF DIRECTION SO THAT AS APPLICANTS COME IN IF THEY WANT TO USE THIS PRODUCT.
>> MY TAKE ON THIS HAVING REPLACED A TON OF THESE PORCHES IS, I HATE PVC. I ABHOR IT.
BUT I'M A HUGE WOOD GUY, LOVE WOOD PORCHES.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A GREAT FIRST STEP.
I THINK KEEPING THE FLAVOR OF A HISTORIC TOWN IS WOOD FEATURES, WOOD WINDOW. I APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT AS A SECOND AND A THIRD TRY, YOU'VE BEEN THE GREAT ROLE IN CASE HE'S REPLACED HIS PORCH THREE TIMES.
HE KEEPS UP WITH THE PAINT, HE KEEPS UP WITH THE MATERIAL.
WE NEED ANOTHER OPTION WHEN ALL ELSE WOOD FAILS.
>> I THINK THIS IS PRETTY VIABLE, ESPECIALLY IT'S IN OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BIG NAMES, AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD BACK-UP.
>> WELL, WHAT I MENTIONED TOO WAS THAT ON SOME OF THE AREAS WHERE IT'S A TRIAL, IT'S A CASE BY CASE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT KELLY HAS BLACK AND WHITE LIKE YES, YOU CAN, NO, YOU CAN'T.
IT CAN COME TO US AS A SHOT, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE DISCUSSIONS OF WHICH PRODUCT, GO THROUGH WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER ACCEPTABLE AND JUST TRULY GO CASE BY CASE.
>> DO WE WANT TO JUST LIMIT A BIT WITH THE PRODUCT? DO WE POTENTIALLY STICK WITH TRADITIONS OR DON'T PERMIT THE [OVERLAPPING].
[01:45:01]
>> I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
>> I'M, MIKE STAUFFER, 422 SOUTH 6TH STREET.
IF YOU HAVE THESE AND THEY GO IN INDIVIDUALLY, YOU'RE GOING TO TEND MAYBE TO SEE A SCENE WHERE TWO BOARDS HAVE BEEN PUT TOGETHER.
I WOULD WONDER IF THE TRADITIONS WHERE YOU COME AND YOU PUT A MODEL THEY PAINT OVER THE WHOLE THING, IF THAT WOULD BE LESS AUTHENTIC FEELING WHERE YOU WOULD SEE THE JOINT BETWEEN THE WOOD.
DO YOU FOLLOW WHAT I'M SAYING? IF THESE ARE EACH PUT OUT INDIVIDUALLY AND TONGUE GROOVED AND NOT CODED TOO, THAT'S BEEN FULLY PAINTED AFTERWARDS IF I'M CORRECT.
THAT'S EXACTLY. YOU GET A JOINT THAT THAT MIGHT NOT GIVE YOU.
I GET YOUR IDEA, THE ROUGH TEXTURE.
>> I AGREE WITH TAMMY. I THINK IF THIS WAS DISTRESSED, IT WOULD LOOK A LOT MORE ORIGINAL AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY [INAUDIBLE].
>> IT BE COOL TO SEE AN ONSITE SAMPLE OF THE TWO TO REALLY GAUGE EVEN IF IT'S ONLY TWO FEET WIDE SOMEWHERE.
>> THAT'S A QUESTION I HAVE ALSO.
I'M REALLY GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP BECAUSE I'M WONDERING IF WE ARE VIEWING THIS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, WHEN AN APPLICANT DECIDES TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A PRODUCT LIKE THIS, IS IT POSSIBLE TO BRING IN A SAMPLE OF HOW THAT MIGHT LOOK AND A COUPLE OF PLANKS TOGETHER SO THAT THERE CAN BE A BETTER IDEA OF THAT FINISH AND HOW THEY JOIN.
>> I JUST HAVE ONE OTHER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS.
WITH OUR MODERN WINDOWS AND THE TECHNOLOGY, IT'S INCREDIBLE.
HOWEVER, WE REQUIRE WINDOW INSPECTIONS, WE REQUIRE SALVAGE, WE REQUIRE YOU GUYS TO DO WHATEVER YOU CAN DO.
ARE WE JEOPARDIZING, POSSIBLY LOSING A LOT OF HISTORIC AND YET IT'S A PAIN IN THE BUTT.
AND YEAH, I'M ALREADY REPLACING BOARDS, AND I'VE BEEN THERE EIGHT YEARS.
>> THE SLIPPERY SLOPE THAT WE GO DOWN.
>> TRULY, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE MOVING IN, THEY WANT IT EASY AND CLEAN AND NO MAINTENANCE.
IS EVERYBODY GOING TO BE RIPPING OUT THEIR OLD BUSHES AND PUTTING IN THIS? JUST A THOUGHT.
>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING TO EARLIER.
I THINK THIS IS A GOOD BACK-UP OPTION AND THE CASE COULD BE MADE AS TO, I'VE INSTALLED THIS PORCH THREE TIMES. I'VE PAINTED IT.
I'VE KEPT UP WITH IT. FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE WEATHER, THE WAY THE RAIN COMES IN, THE WAY THE SUN SHINES, I JUST CAN'T GET THIS PORCH TO STOP FROM RUNNING.
I THINK THIS IS A GREAT BACK-UP OPTION.
>> BECAUSE THE OTHER THING IS WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THE OLD PORCHES WERE NORTH SOUTH WITH AN EXPOSED RAW EDGE.
WITH ANYTHING THAT'S CLAD, YOU NEED A FACE PLATE ON IT.
WE'RE ALREADY CHANGING THE LOOK OF THE DEPTHS.
I WAS THINKING MAYBE DO WE SAY SECOND FLOOR ONLY, BUT THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SECOND FLOOR WITH.
>> WELL, IF WE GO WITH THIS ONE, THOUGH, WOULD YOU.
>> THEY HAVE A PIECE OF MOLDING.
>> IT'S CALLED A CHAMFER MOLDING AND IT ESSENTIALLY CREATES A BULLNOSE LIKE AS IF IT HAD BEEN ROUTED.
I WILL TELL YOU AS WELL JUST SO THAT IF IT HELPS WITH YOUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS, THE VCC TODAY REQUIRES STILL TO THIS DAY THAT MATERIALS THAT ARE INTEGRAL TO THE HOUSE AND ABLE TO BE PRESERVED ARE PRESERVED.
THEY HAVE THAT REQUIREMENT SPECIFICALLY FOR THE WOOD THAT HAS MAINTAINED ITS INTEGRITY OVER TIME.
THERE ARE INSTANCES OF BOARDS THERE THAT HAVE BEEN TREATED SO MANY TIMES WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT CHEMICALS THAT HAVE BEEN REMOVED TO BE RETREATED AND THEN PUT BACK DOWN, THAT THOSE PRESERVE FOR LONGER.
THAT BEING SAID, THEY SEE QUITE OFTEN WHERE AS THEY TRY TO CAREFULLY PRESERVE EXISTING WOOD STRUCTURES THAT FAIL RAPIDLY, YOU END UP ACCELERATING THE DECAY OF THE STRUCTURE.
TO YOUR POINT, IT MAY BE A VERY GOOD IDEA FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO COME IN, TO REQUIRE SITE INSPECTIONS EVEN, OR JUST ALLOW FOR MORE INFORMATION GATHERING ON THE SPECIFIC JOB.
THE LAST THING [INAUDIBLE] WANTS TO DO IS COME IN AND CREATE PLASTIC PORCHES THAT ALL LOOK THE SAME.
THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR COMPANY IS BUILT UPON, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WOULD NOT DO THE SAME.
YOU CLEARLY CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THE CITY.
IN OUR EYES, THE BEST SOLUTION FOR THOSE KINDS OF SITUATIONS SEEMS TO BE TO APPROVE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS FOR A TIME THAT YOU DECIDE ON.
TYPICALLY, WHAT WE'VE SEEN LIKE WITH BLUFFTON, THEY SAY, WE'RE GOING TO DECIDE CASE BY CASE BASIS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR AND REVIEW AT THE END OF THE YEAR.
IF WE LIKE THE WAY IT GOES, THEN WE WILL APPROVE BLANKET FOR JUST TRADITIONS.
I HAVE YET TO SEE A HISTORIC DISTRICT APPROVE ANYTHING THAT IS NOT THE PAINT READY LINE FOR VISIBLE HISTORIC STRUCTURES.
[01:50:05]
THAT'S TO YOUR POINT BECAUSE IT CREATES THAT DIFFERENT FINISH THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN HISTORY.THAT BEING SAID, FOR THE BACK OF STRUCTURES, OF COURSE, THIS MATERIAL PROVIDES THAT SERVICE IN A LOT OF PLACES ALREADY BECAUSE THEY CARE MUCH LESS.
FOR EXAMPLE, KIAWAH APPROVED IT ALREADY FOR SECOND STORY BALCONIES AND DECKS.
ACROSS THE ENTIRETY OF THE ISLAND, YOU JUST HAVE TO GET APPROVAL FOR THE FIRST STORY.
>> HOW ARE THESE OTHER COMMUNITIES HANDLING? I'M INTERESTED IN THE PRODUCT.
I'M DEALING WITH QUITE AN OLD PORCH MYSELF.
BUT THAT BEING SAID, AND I'M EXCITED ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK IT IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE THAT WE GO DOWN WHERE WHEN THIS IS APPROVED THEN WHAT'S THE NEXT THING THAT'S APPROVED? I THINK JUST WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, WHAT HAVE OTHER COMMUNITIES DONE TO STILL TRY TO PRESERVE THE EXISTING SIDING INSTEAD OF THE HARDY AND PUTTING THE NEW WINDOWS AND TRYING TO REBUILD THAT? HOW DO THEY HANDLE?
>> THE ONES THAT I'VE WORKED WITH SPECIFICALLY IN BLUFFTON, WILMINGTON, CHARLESTON, THE WAY THEY TEND TO APPROACH IT IS ASKING THE CONTRACTOR BEFORE PRESENTING ON THE JOB AND THE APPLICATIONS TO PROVIDE FINDINGS ON THE DAMAGE TO THE EXISTING MATERIAL.
THE REASON THAT WE ACHIEVED APPROVAL WE DID IN BLUFFTON IS BECAUSE THE CONTRACTOR CAME OUT AND DID A STUDY ON THE DECAY RATE OF THE CURRENT TONGUE AND GROOVE BOARDS AND SAID, HERE'S HOW MANY HAVE ACHIEVED THIS LEVEL OF FAILURE WHERE SOMEONE COULD STEP THROUGH AND PUT THEIR FOOT THROUGH AND WE DON'T WANT THIS HARM OBVIOUSLY.
NOW, SOME BOARDS CAN BE SALVAGED FROM SOME PARTS, BUT IF WE GO DOWN WITH NEW MATERIAL, IT CREATES AN ADDITIONAL PROBLEM.
THEY ALLOWED FOR THAT INFORMATION GATHERING, ALLOWED FOR THE PRESENTATION TO SAY, IS THIS NEW MATERIAL NECESSARY? WHAT THEY FOUND IS THAT WHERE THE DECAY HAD PROGRESSED TO SUCH AN EXTENT WHERE YOU COULD PUT YOUR FOOT THROUGH THE GIRDERS UNDERNEATH WERE NOW SUSTAINING DAMAGE FROM WEATHER.
TO YOUR POINT, THERE CAN BE A SLIPPERY SLOPE.
THAT BEING SAID, IT SEEMS TO OUR COMPANY, THE WAY WE TRY TO APPROACH IT IS THAT THE MATERIAL WE MAKE WILL OUTLAST THE REST OF THE MATERIAL ON THAT HOUSE.
THIS MATERIAL IS RATED TO LAST WITH VERY LOW VISIBLE DECAY EFFECT FOR 270 YEARS.
>> WHEN YOU'RE SEEKING TO STOP THE SLIPPERY SLOPE, SO TO SPEAK, WE PRESENT THAT THIS STOPS WITH OUR MATERIAL BECAUSE YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE THAT KIND OF LOW DECAY RATE WITH WOOD TODAY.
IT'S NOT POSSIBLE. IT'S VERY POSSIBLE YOU MAY BE RISKING MORE DAMAGE TO THE STRUCTURE WITH GOING DOWN WITH NEW TREATED MATERIAL.
OF COURSE, WHERE ORIGINAL MATERIAL CAN BE PRESERVED, IT VERY MUCH SHOULD BE.
WE BELIEVE IN THAT WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
BUT WHERE A STUDY CAN BE PERFORMED BY THE CONTRACTOR ON SITE AND PROVIDE FINDINGS AND EVIDENCE WITH PHOTOS AND SAY, THIS IS HOW MANY TIMES THAT WE'VE HAD ISSUES WITH IT, OR FOR EXAMPLE, THE WALKWAY THAT ACHIEVES THE MOST SUN, WE'VE HAD TO REPLACE THREE TIMES.
EVERY TIME YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CREW OUT THERE AND REPLACE THAT, HOW MUCH DO YOU DAMAGE THE OLD MATERIAL WHEN YOU RIP OUT A FIVE FOOT BY 10 FOOT SECTION, HOW MUCH ARE YOU RISKING DAMAGING THE HISTORIC SIDING? WE ARE ABLE TO PREVENT THOSE ISSUES THAT OCCUR OVER TIME VERSUS WITH WOOD, THE MORE YOU REPLACE, THE MORE YOU LOSE EVERY TIME YOU HAVE TO.
>> IT ALMOST SOUNDS AS THOUGH WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IS THE SAME PROCESS THAT WE GO THROUGH AND LOOK AT DEMOLITION.
>> FOR WINDOWS, TOO. IS FOR WINDOWS.
>> YES. WHAT I HEAR IS THAT THE BOARD IS OKAY WITH HAVING KELLY LOOK AT THIS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
>> DO WE WANT TO PUT THAT CAVEAT LIKE HE WAS SAYING WITH ALL THE OTHER HISTORIC PLACES THAT IT'S THE TRADITIONS LINE ONLY, THE PAINT READY?
>> LET ME MAKE SURE I GET TO THAT.
>> I JUST HAVE A QUESTION FOR KELLY.
IF SOMEONE WERE TO COME, THE BLUE HERON IS WHAT COMES TO MIND AND SAY I WANT TO USE THIS ON MY FRONT PORCH.
IS THAT A STAFF LEVEL APPROVAL THAT COMES TO US?
>> IT WILL STILL COME TO YOU BECAUSE IT'S ON THE FRONT FACADE AND IT IS AN ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL.
NOW, IF IT'S ON THE BACK, IT COULD BE APPROVED.
BUT ON THE FRONT, IT WILL HAVE TO STILL GO TO THE BOARD UNLESS THEY GO BACK WITH A TRADITIONAL MATERIAL.
>> ALSO NEXT TIME YOU ARE HERE, YOU HAVE TO BRING THAT SIDE IN BECAUSE WE'RE TOUCHY FEELING PEOPLE.
>> I HAVE SAMPLES WITH ME TODAY.
I DIDN'T BRING THEM IN BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO OVERSTEP WHILE I'M PRESENTING.
>> I CAN LEAVE SOME FOR YOUR VIEWING.
>> WE HAD A SIMILAR SITUATION WITH THE SYNTHETIC SHINGLES THAT WE APPROVED ON A CASE BY CASE.
[01:55:03]
MIGHT HAVE BEEN TWO YEARS AGO AT THIS POINT.>> THEY ACTUALLY LOOKED REALLY NICE AND I FELT GOOD THAT WE ALLOWED THEM TO TRY THAT AS A TEST CASE, BECAUSE IT'S NICE TO HAVE OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
>> ESPECIALLY IN THIS CLIMATE.
>> DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT'S BEEN STATED?
>> EVERYBODY ELSE FEEL COMFORTABLE?
>> ARE WE GOING TO ENTERTAIN THIS OTHER ONE TODAY?
THE SAMPLES ARE HERE FOR YOU TO LOOK AT.
BUT I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO IS INVITE THEM TO COME BACK AT YOUR MEETING [OVERLAPPING].
>> NOW WHAT WE HAVE IS THE STAFF REPORT IS TALKING ABOUT THE CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL THAT HAVE BEEN DONE.
[7. STAFF REPORT]
DID EVERYBODY READ THEM?>> I HAD A QUESTION ON ONE OF THEM, BUT NOW I CAN'T SEE WHAT IT WAS.
>> ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS FOR THE FRONT.
>> FINE. I HAVE FAMILY IN AND THEIR STOMACH LINING IS EATING ITSELF.
>> MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. THANK YOU.
>> KELLY, I HAVE A QUESTION ON 309 SOUTH 6TH.
>> I'M SO SORRY. ALL I PUT DOWN WAS IT COMPLETED EXPIRED.
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE APPLICATION WAS FOR BECAUSE IT WENT BACK FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND IT WAS LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON? IS IT DONE?
>> I'M SORRY. I DON'T REMEMBER WHICH ONE IT WAS.
>> OH, YES. [OVERLAPPING] WHEN THIS CAME UP AND IT HAD ALL OF THAT.
REMEMBER, WE HAD THE DISCUSSION.
IT'S LIKE NOT TO INCLUDE, BUT NOT TO BE LIMITED TO.
WE'RE LIKE, THEY'RE GETTING STAFF APPROVAL ON A WHOLE ENTIRE REMODEL.
[LAUGHTER] WHAT'S THE STATUS? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN RIGHT THERE?
>> IT REALLY IS EXACTLY AS IT WAS PREVIOUSLY.
>> IT'S JUST AN EXTENSION OF THE PRIOR.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS?
>> JUST A QUICK QUESTION ON I THINK THIS ONE IS FROM OCTOBER.
IT'S THE [INAUDIBLE] FOSSILS ON 508 ASH STREET.
IT'S SUCH A TIGHT PROPERTY, SO I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THAT WHEELCHAIR RAMP IS GOING BECAUSE IT SAYS IT'S.
>> IT IS NOT VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY.
>> THERE'S AN ADA COMPLIANT PATH FROM THE SIDEWALK ALL THE WAY BACK?
>> IS THAT IT? THEN WHAT WE HAVE COME TO IS TO DISCUSS THE WORKSHOP COMING UP, PLEASE.
>> YES. I KNOW THAT WE HAD INITIALLY INTENDED FOR THIS MEETING TO BE DEDICATED TOWARDS REVIEW OF OUR UPDATED DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, AND THE AGENDA WAS MUCH MORE FULL THAN I HAD ORIGINALLY UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE THROUGH COMMITMENTS THAT I HAD MADE PREVIOUSLY.
WE OBVIOUSLY DID NOT DO THAT TONIGHT.
RATHER THAN DO THAT ON A REGULAR AGENDA, WE'D LIKE TO LOOK AT SOME MEETING DATES IN JANUARY FOR A SEPARATE WORKSHOP.
THIS WOULD BE REALLY TO GO THROUGH THOSE OUTSTANDING ITEMS THAT REMAIN AFTER HAVING REVIEWED IT.
I THINK EVERYBODY HAS RECEIVED NOW A FULL COPY OF THE DOCUMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? A PRINTED COPY?
>> IF YOU COULD MAYBE SPECIFY, MAKE SOME NOTES AND PROVIDE THEM TO ME IN ADVANCE, I CAN CALL THEM TOGETHER, I CAN START TO MAKE UPDATES, EVEN IF THEY'RE REALLY, I KNOW, WE'VE GOT SPELLING ERRORS IN NAMES THAT NEED TO BE UPDATED.
WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS, A COUPLE OF TIMES.
IT STILL REMAINS BECAUSE I HAVEN'T TOUCHED THE DOCUMENT.
BUT LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT SO THAT WE CAN THEN FIGURE OUT WHERE THERE ARE BIG TOPICS THAT WE REALLY DO NEED TO DIVE INTO AS A BOARD AND USE OUR TIME EFFECTIVELY TOGETHER.
>> THE WORKSHOP IT WOULD BE A PUBLIC MEETING.
>> ABSOLUTELY. YES. I KNOW THAT TYPICALLY
[02:00:02]
THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY OF THE MONTH IS GENERALLY AVAILABLE.I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS A DATE THAT WOULD WORK WELL FOR EVERYONE.
ALTERNATIVELY, WE COULD LOOK AT THE FIFTH BECAUSE THE FIVE WEEKS OF WEDNESDAYS IN JANUARY.
>> WE WOULD STILL BE MEETING FOR OUR SCHEDULED MEETING ON THE THIRD ON THURSDAY?
>> YES. THAT MEETING IS ACTUALLY 16TH OF JANUARY.
>> THE DISCUSSION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW IS 22ND OF JANUARY?
>> AT THE 22ND OR THE 29TH ARE DATES THAT ARE TYPICALLY AVAILABLE FOR USE OF THE CHAMBERS AND EVENING.
>> ARE EITHER OF THOSE DATES OKAY WITH YOU OR ARE THEY NOT?
>> I GOT NO CONFLICTS AS OF NOW.
>> NO CONFLICTS. THEY'RE ALL OKAY FOR THIS GROUP.
>> I'LL CONFIRM USE OF THIS, AND THEN WE CAN GET NOTICE SENT OUT.
I WILL GENERALLY PUT TOGETHER A WORKSHOP AGENDA.
IF YOU CAN BETWEEN NOW AND EITHER THE 15TH OR THE 22ND WHEN WE POST THAT AGENDA.
IF YOU CAN GET ME THAT INFORMATION, I CAN START TO EITHER MAKE SOME UPDATES, BUT CERTAINLY ORGANIZE THE BIGGER TOPICS THAT WE WANT TO DIVE INTO.
>> JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR ALL OF YOU, BUT BASED ON MY REVIEW OF THE PACKAGE, THERE'S QUITE A BIT THAT WE COULD PROBABLY SEND INTO KELLY NOW.
AT LEAST FROM MY REVIEW, I SAW A LOT OF TYPOS AND/OR GRAMMAR ISSUES.
IF YOU HAVE THAT, PLEASE GET IT TO HER SO THAT WHEN WE'RE TOGETHER ON THE 25TH OR THE 22ND OR WHATEVER IT WAS, WE HAVE A CLEANER PRODUCT TO USE.
I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD LIKE US TO THINK ABOUT, BECAUSE I HAVE TO, IT'S NEWER TO ME THAN IT IS TO SOME OF YOU AND I HAVE FAR LESS EXPERTISE THAN MOST OF YOU HAVE.
I'LL USE MY PERSPECTIVE ON THIS AND SAY, TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SPA.
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE COVERED, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS TOO, I THINK, ON WHEN FENCING IS PART OF THE PLAN AS OPPOSED TO WHEN IT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED BY STAFF.
WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STATE THAT SOME KIND OF WAY.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ONLY EXAMPLE.
TONIGHT. THE OTHER THING THAT I FOUND MOST BOTHERSOME IN REVIEWING ALL OF THEM WITH MAYBE MORE OF A FOCUSED ITEM I HAD BEFORE IS WE'RE INCONSISTENT ABOUT WHEN WE MANDATE SOMETHING AND WHEN WE SAY WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING.
I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO DECIDE AS A BOARD AND IF NECESSARY TO REVIEW IT WITH THE COMMISSION TO SAY, EITHER WE'RE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING IS MANDATED OR [OVERLAPPING]
>> WHAT THE NEXT STEP WITH THIS AFTER IT PASSES THIS BOARD WOULD BE TO BRING THIS FOR ADOPTION BY RESOLUTION.
IT DOES NOT GET CODIFIED INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
IT IS STILL SERVING AS A GUIDANCE DOCUMENT.
>> THEN ISN'T THAT RELEVANT SHOULD VERSUS MUST IF IT'S JUST A GUIDELINE WHICH IS A BUMMER.
>> IT MAY BE A CONSISTENCY THING AT THAT POINT.
>> WELL, THERE IS A POINT CONSISTENCY, BUT THERE IS ALSO A REAL NAGGING THING FOR ME IS WE EITHER VALUE OR HISTORY AND WE DON'T.
>> ONE IS JUST A STRONGER STATEMENT, THE MUST.
MEANING WE'RE NOT GOING TO REVIEW THIS UNLESS YOU'VE GOT SOME OUTSTANDING REASON WHY YOU CANNOT COMPLY WITH IT.
AND IN BRINGING IT FORWARD TO THE BOARD, YOU NEED TO BE PREPARED TO ARTICULATE WHAT THOSE REASONS ARE.
>> WITH PROOF. THAT'S WHAT I WANT US TO ADD TO DOCUMENT.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE TALKED ABOUT GREG ROLAND PORCH TONIGHT.
WHAT IT REMINDS ME OF AND I HATE THIS, BUT I GET IT.
WHAT IT REMINDS ME OF IS WHEN THE DOCTOR HAS TO GO THROUGH THREE KINDS OF MEDICATION THAT YOU KNOW IS NOT GOING TO WORK TO GET TO THE ONE THAT INSURANCE WILL COVER FOR YOU.
YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO YOUNG.
IT IS AGGRAVATING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE DON'T WANT FOLKS TO BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE CARTE BLANCHE TO DEMOLISH, AGAIN,
[02:05:07]
I THINK IT'S DEMOLITION TO TAKE OUT AN ORIGINAL PORCH OR EVEN ONE THAT HAS BEEN BUILT TO SPEC FROM THIS BOARD WITHOUT HAVING PROOF HERE THAT IT'S BEEN TRIED.>> WELL, I THINK WE'VE MADE VERY GOOD DECISIONS AND EXAMPLES AND CASES OF WINDOWS.
BECAUSE FOUR YEARS AGO, I THINK WE WERE KIND OF A LITTLE LOUSIER ON WINDOW REPLACEMENTS.
MAYBE IT WAS SUSAN'S JOB WHEN THEY ALL HAD TO COME OUT.
THAT WAS A HUGE EXAMPLE BECAUSE IT WAS NOT APPROVED AND THEY WERE HISTORIC.
>> ONE QUESTION CARLEY, ON THIS DOCUMENT, I THINK WE'VE ASKED IT BEFORE, BUT AS LONG AS WE DON'T COMMUNICATE TO EACH OTHER, CAN YOU UPLOAD THIS AS A GOOGLE DOC SO WE CAN EDIT AND THEN SEND RIGHT TO YOU?
>> IT WOULD GIVE PDF FILE THAT WOULD GET UPLOADED.
[OVERLAPPING] IT'S FROM INDESIGN THAT IT'S BEING CREATED.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I COULD CONVERT DOWN TO [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S FINE.
I CAN SCAN THAT IN, AND I CAN USE THAT.
PLEASE DO WHAT YOU FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE WITH IN NOTING THOSE CHANGES.
THEN BEING ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THEM TO ME IS THE SECOND STEP OF IT AND TO BE ABLE TO GET IT UPDATED.
HOW ARE WE GOING TO HANDLE COMPOSITE OR HOW DO WE HANDLE COMPOSITE PORCHES WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION? IS THAT THEY CAN GO EITHER OR? BECAUSE I KNOW FOR WINDOWS, IT'S VERY MUCH EITHER OR WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION.
>> IT'S STILL THE SAME ON THE FRONT, RIGHT?
>> I DON'T KNOW WHEN ON NEW CONSTRUCTION.
>> I THINK ON NEW CONSTRUCTION, YOU HAVE ALLOWED IT.
>> TO JUMP BACK TO THE GUIDELINES FOR INSTANCE.
WHEN WE MEET ON THE 22ND OR WHATEVER THE DATE ENDS UP BEING.
WE ARE LOOKING TO DISCUSS THE GUIDELINES THEN, BUT IF WE HAVE COMMENTS BEFORE TIME, GET THEM TO YOU, EVEN IF IT'S POTENTIALLY A QUESTION, HOW DOES THIS GET HANDLED, AND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS IT AT THAT IN MEETING.
>> ABSOLUTELY. THAT WAY, I CAN PULL TOGETHER AND HAVE THOSE BIG TOPICS AND SAY, I CAN SEE WHERE TAMMY'S COMMENTS AND [INAUDIBLE] COMMENTS ARE ALIGNING HERE THAT WILL HELP US TO FORM THAT CONVERSATION.
>> BUT THEY'RE ALWAYS JUST GOING TO BE GUIDELINES AND THERE'S NEVER GOING TO BE EVER [OVERLAPPING]
>> THAT CAN BE SOMETHING THAT YOU PUSH FOR AND AT A FULL CODIFICATION OF THAT.
THAT WOULD BE NEXT LEVEL FOR THE EVOLUTION OF THE CITY AND DO AND TAKING THAT STEP.
>> IF WE PUT MUST IN, NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO KNOW, OH, THAT'S JUST A GUIDELINE.
WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT, WE'D BE LIKE, OH, MAN, WE MUST DO THAT.
I THINK THESE ARE ALL THINGS I WANTED TO DISCUSS.
I'M TRYING OUT IF WE DID WANT TO TAKE THAT KIND OF STEP TO CHANGE THE NAME AND TO ALSO MAKE THESE I WON'T USE THE UGLY WORD MANDATORY, BUT MANDATORY.
>> THEY BECOME OUR STANDARDS ADOPTIONS [OVERLAPPING]
>> [INAUDIBLE] LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
>> NOW, DOES THAT PUT ANY WIGGLE IN HOW WE DEAL WITH OLD TOWN?
>> NO. BECAUSE THIS IS JUST FOR DOWNTOWN.
>> THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES WOULD CONTINUE TO STAND AS GUIDELINES.
>> THEY WOULD CONTINUE TO STAND AS GUIDELINES.
NOW, THE PIECE OF IT THAT IS BROUGHT FORWARD AS PART OF THIS EFFORT WAS VERY NARROW.
IN THAT IT ADDRESSED THE INTERFACE OF WHERE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE CRA.
IT DID NOT DO A COMPLETE REVISION OF CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES.
>> BUT ARE THOSE GUIDELINES STILL BEEN USED?
>> YES, WHENEVER WE'RE [INAUDIBLE] PROJECTS HERE, WE'RE IDENTIFYING THOSE SPECIFIC CRITERIA.
LOOKING AT THE DESIGN AREAS SO THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT [OVERLAPPING]
>> BUT VIEW CARDERS AND THAT SORT OF THING?
>> WITH THE MOST RECENT ACTIONS THAT YOU'VE SEEN COME FORWARD IN THE CRA, THOSE ARE ALL PIECES THAT HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AS PART OF THE STOP REPORT AND THE STOP PRESENTATION.
[02:10:01]
>> WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO ANY FARTHER WITH THE CRA GUIDELINES?
>> NO. IN FACT, I DO HAVE SOME BUDGETED DOLLARS, AND IT'S A SECONDARY TASK TO THE DOWNTOWN TRAFFIC CIRCULATION AND PARKING STUDY THAT WE COULD UTILIZE TO SUPPORT UPDATING THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
BUT I DO NEED SOME CLEAR DIRECTION, I THINK BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AND TALKING WITH A CONSULTANT ON THAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A SMALLER EFFORT.
I WOULD LIKE CLEAR DIRECTION FROM THE BOARD ON WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE CHANGE, AND HOW THAT'S TO INFORM THAT PROCESS AND SET EXPECTATIONS FOR WHAT THE OUTCOME WOULD BE.
>> PERHAPS WE HAVE A SEPARATE WORKSHOP, IF YOU WILL, IN THE CRA GUIDELINES BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES MADE FROM THE ORIGINALS, ESPECIALLY AROUND THINGS LIKE PARKING REQUIREMENTS?
>> THE CRA GUIDELINES HAVE NOT CHANGED SINCE THE ORIGINAL?
>> NOTHING TO DO WITH PARKING HAS CHANGED?
>> NO. PARKING STANDARDS RELATIVE TO PROPERTIES WITHIN THE CRA INCORPORATED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE HAVE CHANGED.
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE MAKE THOSE CLEAR DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THOSE PIECES OF OUR CODE THAT ARE ALREADY CODIFIED, CRA RELATED AND THE DESIGN GUIDANCE ITSELF.
>> I THINK WHEN WE GET TO THAT I, MAYBE IT'S JUST ME.
IF SO, I'LL COME SCHEDULE A TIME TO MEET WITH YOU FOR YOU TO SHOW ME THE DIFFERENCE.
BECAUSE THIS BRINGS UP THE POINT THAT I HAD MADE EARLIER THAT A SINGLE DOCUMENT ALONE DOESN'T DO IT FOR PEOPLE.
I NOTICED THAT IN THE IN THE GUIDELINE DOCUMENT, THERE ARE SOME MAYBE NECESSARY TO HAVE MORE OF THEM, BUT REFERENCES TO SPOTS IN THE LDC THAT YOU NEED TO GO LOOK AT NOW, OR THE SIGN ORDINANCE OR WHATEVER ELSE.
BUT IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS THING AS USABLE AND AS MEANINGFUL AS WE CAN, I THINK THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME WAY THAT PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO DO THIS, HOW TO LINK ONE THING TO THE OTHER, AND THEN YOU KNOW A STATEMENT IN THE GUIDELINES OR WHATEVER WE END UP CALLING THEM ALONE MAY NOT DO IT FOR YOU.
>> WE MIGHT HAVE TO ASK FOR SOME CODIFICATIONS WHERE THEY MANDATE YOU GO TO THE, WE HAVE IN THERE, BUT IT'S A LITTLE SWINGY.
>> IT COULD BE THINGS, AND I KNOW I'LL PICK ON SOMETHING THAT'S VERY NEAR TO VERONICA'S HEART FENCES.
[LAUGHTER] LET'S SAY THERE IS A STRONG DESIRE THAT SPECIFICALLY FENCES MUST BE A CERTAIN STYLE, A CERTAIN HEIGHT, REGARDLESS OF ZONING DISTRICT, A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM FRONT FACADES THAT WE WANT TO ADHERE TO.
GUIDANCE IS GOING TO TELL YOU DIFFERENT STYLES AND OPTIONS AND THE WHY BEHIND YOU MAKE THOSE SELECTIONS.
BUT PUTTING THAT INTO A CODE DIRECTLY AND SAYING, AND HERE'S HOW YOU APPLY IT IS WHERE WE TAKE IT THAT STEP FURTHER.
IT COULD BE THAT YOU HAVE A GUIDANCE DOCUMENT, BUT NOW YOU'RE IDENTIFYING THOSE SECTIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THAT GUIDANCE DOCUMENT THAT NEED TO GO TO THAT NEXT STEP.
>> ALL OF THAT IS SECOND NATURE TO THE PLANNING PERSONNEL, AND IT'S PROBABLY SECOND NATURE TO YOUR DAD AND TO YOU.
>> ONLY TO YOU IF YOU'VE BEEN BURNED.
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO PUT OURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS SQUATS DIDDLY ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, AND READ THESE GUIDELINES FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GIVING THEM SOMETHING AS MEANINGFUL AND RESOURCEFUL AS POSSIBLE.
ANY COMMENTS FROM PUBLIC, SIR.
[LAUGHTER] MEETING ADJOURNED, MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HOLIDAYS.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.