>> HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION ON NOVEMBER 21,
[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
[00:00:05]
2024, CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
>> AND MEMBER BURNS IS ABSENT.
>> OKAY. BEFORE WE DO ANYTHING ELSE, I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLAIN WHY I'M DOING THIS IS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ALL OF OUR BOARD YET, AND I'M ACTING AS CHAIR TODAY SO BEAR WITH ME.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. I HAVE A CHEAT SHEET, SO WE'LL DO IT THAT WAY.
[LAUGHTER] COULD YOU PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
>> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
>> BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I DO WANT TO GO AHEAD AND TALK ABOUT THE MINUTES FROM THE PRIOR MEETING THEN MR. GLISSON HAS ASKED IF WE COULD MOVE HIS SEGMENT UP ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE HE HAS A CONFLICT LATER SO THAT'S JUST FOR EVERYBODY'S INFORMATION.
>> WE SAY GOODBYE, THOUGH, HE'S NOT HERE TO COMMISSIONER POINTER.
THE LAST MEETING WAS HIS FINAL MEETING, AND HE'S NOW SITTING ON THE CITY COMMISSION.
LET'S DISCUSS THE MINUTES, PLEASE.
DID EVERYBODY HAVE A CHANCE TO READ THEM? I'M SORRY.
>> OH, JEEZ. SEE, THAT'S NOT WRITTEN HERE.
YES, IT IS. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS TO DISCUSS?
>> I SPOKE WITH STAFF ON CASE 2024-0028.
>> AND I HAVE JUST SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE DETERMINATION OF QUORUM BECAUSE I HAVE TO STEP DOWN FOR MY PROJECT.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED A SEAT.
>> I BELIEVE WE HAVE FOUR UP HERE IS A QUORUM, YES.
MEMBER GASS, I'M SORRY IS SEATED OFFICIALLY TODAY.
>> YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN ALTERNATE TIME WHERE YOU JUST LISTENED AND COULDN'T DO IT, TO BE CLEAR FOR THIS EVENING.
>> ALL RIGHT SO WE HAVE A QUORUM.
>> FIRST, IF WE'VE DONE EX PARTE, ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MINUTES FROM THE MEETING ATTACHED
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
TO OUR PACKAGE SEPTEMBER 19, 2024? ANY CONCERNS, ISSUES, CHANGES? DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE?>> OKAY. MOTION BY KOSACK SECOND BY PRESETA.
ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE STAY AYE.
[5.4 Presentation only - City requests formal consideration/ tabling to a time certain date. HDC 2024-0026 CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, CENTRE STREET "DOWNTOWN STREETSCAPE" ]
WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND GIVE YOUR PRESENTATION?>> THIS IS FOR THE DOWNTOWN STREET'S CASE?
>> DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION, YES, MA'AM.
MEMBER GASS, WELCOME BACK BEHIND THE DAIS.
>> THIS IS A PRESENTATION PROVIDED BY KIMLEY-HORN.
THIS IS NOT MINE. THEY'VE GIVEN ME PERMISSION TO SHARE THIS PRESENTATION.
ELEMENTS OF THIS WAS GIVEN TO YOU ALL SOME MEETINGS AGO, JUST AS THEY'VE MOVED ALONG IN THEIR DESIGN OF THE DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION.
THIS IS ALSO WHAT WAS PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSION AT THE MEETING BEFORE LAST JUST AN UPDATE TO GET THEIR FEEDBACK AS THEY'RE MOVING FORTH THEIR DESIGN.
THEY'RE RIGHT AT 90% COMPLETE WITH THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND THE OBJECTIVE IS TO REPLACE OUR AGING SIDEWALKS CROSSWALKS CURVES WITH CONSISTENT PAVING MATERIAL, CREATING OVERALL COMPREHENSIVE THEME THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN.
AS YOU ALL ARE AWARE, A LOT OF OUR MATERIALS IN THE DOWNTOWN ARE BEYOND END OF LIFE.
SOME OF OUR CONCRETE, OUR ELECTRICAL CONDUIT, OUR ELECTRICAL WIRING IS FROM THE 1970S, TO GET TO THAT, TO REPLACE, YOU'RE PULLING UP YOUR SIDEWALKS.
A LOT OF SIDEWALKS THAT ARE NO LONGER ADA COMPLIANT WITH CRACKS SETTLING, AND SO ON SO IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE OVERHAUL AND REFRESH OF OUR DOWNTOWN.
OUR TREES, OUR LIVE OAKS IN THE DOWNTOWN CONTINUE TO GROW, AND WHEN THEY GROW, THEY BUCKLE WHATEVER'S AROUND THEM TO MAKE ROOM SO THIS ALSO ADDRESSES PROVIDING SUBSTANTIAL BUMP OUTS TO ALLOW THE TREES WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN TO CONTINUE TO FLOURISH.
[00:05:05]
CREATES A SAFER PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE, INCREASE ADA COMPLIANCE, AS I MENTIONED, AND WHILE MAINTAINING THE HISTORIC THEME AND THE REUSE OF HISTORIC MATERIALS AND INCREASE IN IMPROVING SOME OF THE LIGHTING WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN.RIGHT NOW, THE PRIOR AREA OF FOCUS FOR THE DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION THAT HAPPENED PRIOR TO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HOPEFULLY BE ENGAGING WITH SOON WAS IN THE LATE 90S, AND IT FOCUSED ON THIS AREA.
IF YOU OBSERVE IN THE DOWNTOWN NORTH 6TH AND NORTH 7TH DOES NOT HAVE THE LANDSCAPE ISLANDS AND SOME OF THE ELEMENTS THAT YOU HAVE HERE IN THE WESTERN PORTION OF THE DOWNTOWN.
AS WAS MENTIONED, AND THESE ARE SMALL FONT HERE, SO I'LL READ WHAT'S THERE, BUT THE GOAL IS TO INCREASE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY BY INCREASING THE INTERSECTION BUMP OUTS.
WHAT THAT DOES IS THAT BRINGS THOSE CROSSWALKS INTO ADA COMPLIANCE BY EXTENDING THEM OUT INTO THE STREET AND IMPROVES PEDESTRIAN VISIBILITY.
IN DOING SO, YOU SHORTEN THE BRICK CROSSWALKS.
THE REASON WHY THAT'S A VALUE IS BECAUSE THE BRICKS THAT WE PLAN TO RETAIN COULD BE USED ELSEWHERE IN THE 6TH-8TH STREET AREA WHERE WE DO NOT HAVE THE BRICK CROSSWALKS.
THAT'S JUST THE FORGOTTEN PART OF THE DOWNTOWN AS FAR AS SOME OF THE HISTORICAL ELEMENTS SO YOU COULD USE THOSE, REPURPOSE SOME OF THOSE BRICKS AND WHAT WE SAW IN INVENTORY TO THE INTERSECTIONS FURTHER CLOSER TO 8TH STREET.
OF COURSE, AS MENTIONED, THE PURPOSE OF SOME OF THE BUMP OUTS IS TO PROVIDE SOME INCREASED LIVE OAK ROOT ZONE BY RELOCATING SOME OF THE WALLS OUT AND AROUND THE TREES, AND SOME OF THE OTHER SITE FURNISHINGS.
RIGHT NOW, THE MATERIALS BEING PROPOSED IS THE SHELL STONE CONCRETE.
IT IS A SHELL AGGREGATE LIKE WHAT'S AT THE WATERFRONT DOWN AT THE SEA WALL AT THE WATERFRONT, AND THEN MAINTAINING THE CLAY BRICK CROSSWALKS ALL THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN.
THE PAVER ZONE, SOME OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS HERE WOULD BE TO MAINTAIN THE ALREADY APPROVED WASTE RECEPTACLES, THE BIKE RACKS, THE BENCHES THAT WE HAVE, MAINTAINING THE BRICK SEAT WALLS, OF COURSE, REPAIRING A NUMBER AND MOVING THEM TO ACCOMMODATE SOME OF THE BUMP OUTS WITHIN THE LANDSCAPE ISLANDS FOR TREE GROWTH.
THE LIGHTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY THE HDC, AND THAT IS REFLECTED IN THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
THE NEXT STEP IS INCORPORATING SOME OF THE LIGHTING INTO THE FINAL CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS TO BRING THAT BACK FOR REALLY CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND THEN FINAL WITH YOU AND THEN BEFORE YOU TAKE IT TO CITY COMMISSION.
THE PLANS WERE PROVIDED, IT'S RATHER EXHAUSTIVE.
THIS IS A LOT OF AND WE'RE NOT PRETENDING TO BE ABLE TO READ INTO THIS NOW, BUT THIS IS A LOT OF THE DETAIL THAT'S BEING PROVIDED AS THEY WORK ON BRINGING THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS INTO 100%.
THE PAPER PROTECTION ZONE, I KNOW, WAS OF CONCERN TO THIS BODY AND I AM NOT SURE IF THAT'S PART OF YET WELL.
LET'S SEE HERE. YEAH, YOU CAN SEE IT THERE.
JUST HERE TO THE LEFT OF THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE THE THE PAVERS THERE IN FRONT OF THE COURTHOUSE, AND THE GOAL WOULD BE TO REALLOCATE SOME OF THE PAVERS AND WITH WHAT WE HAVE IN INVENTORY TO MAKE THE ENTIRE AREA ON CENTER STREET THERE RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF THE POST OFFICE AND FROM THE COURTHOUSE, LIKE A PAPER PROTECTION ZONE SO THAT THE ENTIRE BLOCK WOULD HAVE THOSE PAVERS, NOT JUST A PORTION IN FRONT OF THE COURTHOUSE, AND THERE'S NO PAVERS ON THE OTHER SIDE OVER IN FRONT OF THE POST OFFICE, BUT TO MAKE THAT ENTIRE CORRIDOR RIGHT THERE IN THE CENTER OF THE DOWNTOWN, AN AREA FOR THE PAVERS THAT WE HAVE.
TO BRING THE ADDITIONAL PAVEMENTS INTO THE DOWNTOWN, RIGHT THERE IN THE HEART OF THE DOWNTOWN.
THAT WAS BASED OFF OF SOME DIRECTION PROVIDED FROM THIS BOARD IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS.
CITY COMMISSION AS WELL, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WERE RETAINED.
THE GRANITE CURVES WOULD BE REPURPOSED, BUT USED IN THE DOWNTOWN IN A MORE FUNCTIONAL WAY AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE SANDWICHED AND THEY'RE SPREAD THROUGHOUT, BUT WOULD SERVE AS A BORDER THERE FROM THE ASPHALT TO THE LANDSCAPE SIDE.
IN ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION PLANS, YOU CAN SEE WHERE A NUMBER OF THE CURVES EITHER BEING MAINTAINED OR BEING PULLED AND PUT INTO BETTER AREAS, BUT THE GRANITE CURVING WOULD REMAIN.
THE INTENT TONIGHT IS TO JUST PROVIDE YOU WITH THIS UPDATE. WE'RE NOT DONE.
IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH GOING OUT TO BID AND CONSTRUCTION, THEN, THAT WOULD BE SLATED FOR NEXT YEAR SOMETIME.
WE HAVE ABOUT 1.1 MILLION DOLLAR TO GET STARTED.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO DO A WHOLE LOT SO WE'RE STILL LOOKING OTHER FUNDING MECHANISMS TO MAKE SURE WE START AND CONTINUE,
[00:10:03]
NOT START AND STOP, LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LATE 90S SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE FUNDING AVAILABLE TO CONTINUE THIS EFFORT.PHASE 1 WOULD BE CENTER STREET, THE CENTER STREET CORRIDOR, THAT'S WHERE MOST OF YOUR ADA ISSUES ARE.
THAT'S ALSO WHERE THE GREATEST NEED FOR THESE IMPROVEMENTS WOULD BE.
THE INTENT TONIGHT IS TO JUST BRING YOU UP THE SPEED WITH THE LATEST WORK IN THIS PROJECT AND TAKE ANY FEEDBACK YOU MIGHT HAVE SO WE CAN PASS ON TO KIMLEY-HORN, THE DESIGN TEAM WHO'S BEEN WORKING ON THIS.
WE'RE ALSO IN ADDITION, WE'RE TALKING WITH FLORIDA PUBLIC UTILITIES AND SOME OTHER VENDORS, SPECIFICALLY FLORIDA PUBLIC UTILITIES.
THEY ARE LOCAL FRANCHISE HOLDER FOR THE ELECTRICAL TO SEE IF WE COULD HAVE A PARTNERSHIP ON MAYBE SOME OF THE DOWNTOWN LIGHTING BECAUSE THE LIGHTING IS EXPENSIVE TO SEE IF THERE'S INTEREST IN THEM INSTALLING THE LIGHTING, AND WE RENT FROM THEM AS WE DO WITH THE REST OF THE LIGHTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
WE'RE IN SOME OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS TO SEE WHAT THAT COST WOULD LOOK LIKE.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AT AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY FEEDBACK, ANSWERING QUESTIONS.
I MIGHT HAVE AN ANSWER TO, IF NOT, MISS CLAP IS HERE, HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP OUT OR CHIME IN, BUT YOUR FEEDBACK WILL BE HELPFUL AND ENCOURAGED.
TAMMY, DO WE NEED TO DO THIS WEARING IN THING BEFORE COMMENTS ON THIS SECTION?
>> YES. JEREMIAH, WHAT KIND OF CONSIDERATION HAS BEEN MADE FOR THE FUTURE OF THE LIVE OAKS AS FAR AS NOW WE'RE DOING THIS REARRANGING BECAUSE THE ROOTS OF THE LIVE OAKS HAVE NOW SPREAD.
DO WE KNOW HOW FAR THEY'RE GOING TO SPREAD IN THE FUTURE AND WHEN WE'LL HAVE TO DO THIS AGAIN BECAUSE THEY HAVE UPROOTED THE SIDEWALKS? HOW FAR ARE THEY GO TO GO? DO WE KNOW?
>> THE TREES CAN GET PRETTY BIG.
THEY ARE MOVING THE BUMP OUTS ENOUGH SO THAT IT'S TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE DOING THIS HERE IN A FEW YEARS.
AS WHAT'S BEEN SAID, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING ANY OF US WILL BE DOING WITH OUR LIFETIME.
AS CONVERSATIONS OCCURRED WITH KIMLEY-HORN, THE DOWNSIDE, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED IS IN MAKING THESE ISLANDS BIGGER TO ACCOMMODATE THESE TREES AND TO INCREASE ADA COMPLIANCE, WE WILL BE ADDING SOME ADA PARKING SPACES WITHIN THE CENTER STREET CORRIDOR.
THERE'S ONLY THREE THERE NOW, AND THE ENTIRE CENTER STREET CORRIDOR IS ONLY THREE BECAUSE YOU'RE WIDENING, ENLARGING THE LANDSCAPE ISLANDS FOR SOME OF THESE TREES, YOU'RE LOSING SOME PARKING SPACES.
RIGHT NOW THE CURRENT COUNT WITHIN CENTER STREET IS 15.
NOW, WE KNOW PARKING IS ONGOING CONCERN HERE IN THE DOWNTOWN BUT WITH DESIGN TEAM, THEY'RE CONFIDENT THAT IN THE REDESIGN OF THE SIDE STREETS, OF COURSE, THIS IS A FOCUS ON CENTER STREET, YOU WOULD HAVE A NET LOSS OF PARKING AS YOU MAKE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS TO LIKE NORTH 5TH AND SOME OTHER AREAS, LIKE WHAT WE DO IN NORTH 7TH.
BUT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO IMPROVE THE PARKING ON THE SIDE STREETS AND HAVE SOME OF THAT LOSS OF PARKING ON CENTER MOVED TO THE SIDE STREETS THROUGH CLEANING UP SOME OF THOSE ISLANDS.
MAYBE THERE'S A COUPLE OF ROADS THAT YOU COULD TAKE UP FROM PARALLEL PARALLEL TO PARALLEL AND DIAGONAL PARKING, AND GAIN PARKING ON THE SIDE STREETS THAT YOU WOULD BE LOSING ON CENTER STREET DUE TO ADDING ADA PARKING SPOTS AND THE LARGER ISLANDS THAT HAVE BEEN WIDENED, INCREASED BUMP OUTS TO FACILITATE TREE ROOT GROWTH.
>> I HEARD YOU SAY WE WON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH ROOTS OF THE LIVE OAKS IN OUR LIFETIME.
>> THAT'S CORRECT. YES, MA'AM.
>> ARE WE TALKING ABOUT MY LIFETIME OR YOUR LIFETIME?
>> THEY'RE TALKING TO ME SO WE'LL SEE YOU.
>> YOURS IS A LITTLE LONGER THAN MINE.
>> BUT HE NEEDS TO STAY OFF ATPS. [LAUGHTER]
>> IS THE POTENTIAL NET GAIN LOSS IN PARKING LOSS DO THEY HAVE A FIGURE YET?
>> THEY'RE SAYING NET NEUTRAL, WHICH THEY HAVEN'T BEGUN THE DESIGN, BUT THEY DID POINT OUT SOME AREAS.
NORTH 5TH IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE THERE'S PARKING ON JUST THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREET.
YOU HAVE A PRIVATE LOT ON THE EAST SIDE, THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO GO IN THERE AND ADD PARKING LIKE PARALLEL ON NORTH 5TH, AND JUST SOME OF THE AREAS WHERE MAYBE WE MODIFY SOME OF THE LOADING ZONES OR MOVE THE ISLAND SO THAT YOU CAN INCREASE PARKING ON THE SIDE STREETS.
>> A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON PROCESS.
ONCE THEY GET THIS 100%, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS FOR KELLY OR JEREMIAH, DOES THIS PLAN THEN COME BACK TO US IN FULL FOR HDC APPROVAL?
>> YES. DEFINITELY. THIS IS A PRESENTATION, WE'RE NOT EVEN AT THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN.
A COUPLE OF COMMENTS, WHICH WILL HELP IN THIS PHASE VERSUS LATER.
LIKE WHAT PAT WAS SAYING WITH THE TREE ROOTS.
IF THERE COULD BE A NOTATION SOMEWHERE IN THE PROJECT,
[00:15:03]
WE'VE GOT THOSE TREE GRATES AROUND A LOT OF OUR EXISTING TREES AND THE WAY THEY ARE DESIGNED, THEY'VE GOT CONCENTRIC CIRCLES ON THEM, AND THE PURPOSE OF THOSE, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, AS THE TREE GROWS IN CALIBER AND STARTS PUMPING UP, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO COME BACK AND,>> CUT THE RINGS SO YOU HAVE MORE SURFACE.
WE HAVE SOME TREES THAT ARE GROWING AROUND THE TREE GRATES, WHICH IS REALLY NOT GOOD FOR THE TREES SO IF THAT COULD BE IN THERE, THAT WE COULD ALSO MAINTAIN OUR HEALTHY EXISTING TREES THAT WE'RE NOT TAKING OUT AND JUST HAVE A BETTER HANDLE ON THE MAINTENANCE OF THE TREES.
>> AS I RECALL, AND I'D HAVE TO LOOK IN THE,
>> DRAWINGS. THERE WAS A DIFFERENT DESIGN TYPE GRADE THAT WOULD BE BETTER SERVED FOR THAT, THAN THE CUTTING OUT THE RINGS AS THE TREE GROWS, WHICH CLEARLY HASN'T BEEN HAPPENING.
>> WOULD WE BE REMOVING ALL OF THE EXISTING AND COMING BACK WITH A NEW ONE OR WOULD SOME OF THEM BE STAYING?
>> WELL, MOST OF THE TREE GRADES ARE ON THE SIDE STREETS.
THIS IS A FOCUS ON THE CENTER STREET.
THOSE RINGS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ARE ALL ON THE SIDE STREETS, I THINK WE HAVE.
>> WE DO HAVE SOME ON SIXTH STREET, SO I KNOW THAT I'D HAVE TO GO DIG AND LOOK, BUT I'LL FOLLOW UP ON THAT.
>> THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I KNOW THE WHOLE RATIONALE FOR GOING WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE BUCKLE ABOUT SAVING THE PAPERS OR NOT SAVING THE PAPERS.
THE RATIONALE FOR GOING TO A CONCRETE WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS THE NEED OR THE POSSIBILITY TO HAVE TO GO BACK AND ACCESS THE UTILITIES UNDERNEATH AND IT WAS JUST TOO MUCH TROUBLE WITH THE PAPERS.
IF WE'RE GOING BACK WITH ALL THIS CONCRETE, AND WE HAVE TO ACCESS UTILITIES IN THE FUTURE, HOW IS THIS A BETTER PLAN? WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CUT THROUGH CONCRETE NOW.
TO GET TO THE END OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS, IS THERE SOME THOUGHT, MAYBE? I DON'T KNOW HOW THE UTILITIES RUN.
IF THERE'S LIKE A MAJOR TRUNK AND THEN JUNCTION BOXES SET UP.
MAYBE ACROSS THE NEW SIDEWALKS, THERE'S SOME AREAS WHERE THAT COULD BE SANDSET OR A PAVER SET OF SOME SORT, MAYBE IN THE OLD BRICKS.
WE'RE NOT CUTTING THROUGH CONCRETE WHEN NEEDED AND THEN HAVING TO PACK THE CONCRETE.
IT WOULD BE MORE COHESIVE OF A PLAN FOR FUTURE POTENTIAL MAINTENANCE.
I'VE SEEN THAT DOWN IN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES AND IT LOOKS GREAT, IT LOOKS INTENTIONAL, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF AFTER THE FAT CUTS INTO THE NEW THING, SO THAT'S MORE OF A [OVERLAPPING]
>> LET ME ADDRESS PART OF THAT TO, ONCE WORK CONSTRUCTION WORK BEGINS, AND SIDEWALKS COME UP, THAT'S WHEN LATERAL LINES, SERVICE LINES TO, UNDER THE SIDEWALK TO THE BUSINESSES WOULD BE EVALUATED AND UPGRADED.
ADDITIONALLY, WHAT THE INTENTION IS, IS TO MOVE SOME OF THOSE METERS, SOME OF THOSE CONTROL BOXES TO SOME OF THE LANDSCAPE ISLANDS SO THAT YOU CAN SERVICE THEM.
YOU'RE NOT CUTTING UP ANYTHING, BUT YOU CAN SERVICE THOSE INTO LANDSCAPE ISLANDS, WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON WHY THEY WERE GROWING IN SIZE A BIT TO ACCOMMODATE MOVING SOME OF YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE THERE, SO YOU CAN WORK ON IT THERE AND YOU'RE NOT CUTTING UP A SIDEWALK TO DO A WATER LINE REPAIR.
>> THEN WHEN THEY'RE PULLING UP SOME OF THE OLD ASPHALT TO MAKE ANY OF THOSE BUMP OUTS, I WOULD IMAGINE AND HOPE THAT THERE WAS SOME CONSIDERATION.
A LOT OF OUR STREETS WERE JUST ASPHALTED RIGHT OVER THE HISTORIC ORIGINAL COBBLES.
IT MAKES EXCAVATION AND DEMO A LITTLE BIT TRICKY, BUT IF THEY START GOING IN THERE AND THEN WOW, WE HAVE A WHOLE COBBLE STREET UNDERNEATH HERE.
WE HAVE TO THINK, WHAT DO WE DO THEN? IS THERE A WAY TO PULL THOSE OUT? AIMING TO REUSE THEM AND DO IT, AND I THINK I JUST GOT ONE MORE.
THE RNR OF THE GRANITE CURBS, WOULD THEY BE REPLACED IN THE CENTER STREET PLAN WHEN YOU SAY YOU WOULD USE THEM IN A BETTER [OVERLAPPING]
>> THEY WOULD GO BACK INTO THE CENTER STREET DESIGN.
WE HOPE TO CONTINUE THIS AND THEN DESIGN THE SIDE STREETS.
WILL BE MUCH QUICKER TO DESIGN THE SIDE STREETS.
ONCE ALL THIS CENTER STREETS DONE, YOU WOULD LARGELY FOLLOW THAT TEMPLATE.
>> I JUST MEANT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ON THE YARD AND THEN USE AS A CURB STOP SOMEPLACE IN A PARKING LOT.
>> NO. IF YOU DIG INTO THE DRAWINGS, YOU'LL SEE WHERE THEY'VE BAILED IT DOWN.
THIS CURB IS BEING MOVED HERE, THE GRANITE CURBS HAVE ALL BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR.
>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? I WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE WHAT YOU'VE HEARD UNTIL YOU'RE PROBABLY WANTING PEPTO-BISMAL FROM HEARING THEM ALL,, AND THAT OVERALL, IT'S MOST CRITICAL THAT WE KEEP AS MUCH OF OUR HISTORICAL ASSETS AS POSSIBLE IN THIS PROCESS, BECAUSE I'M HEARING YOU SAY THE BRICKS ARE GOING TO STAY THERE AND I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT WE'LL REUSE THE CURVE.
I LOVE THAT BUT, PLEASE LET'S NOT FORGET IT,
[00:20:02]
LIKE WE DID WITH THE PAPERS IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH, BECAUSE REALLY IN MY MIND, THIS CITY NEEDS TO SHOW TO THE COMMUNITY HOW MUCH THE CITY ITSELF VALUES OUR HISTORY AND PRESERVATION.IS TO CONTINUE TO PRESERVE WHAT WE HAVE.
NOW, A WHILE BACK, IT WAS WHEN WE WERE REDOING THE PARKING LOT ACROSS THE STREET.
THERE'S A HORSE TROUGH OVER THERE.
>> IS THAT GOING TO STAY IN THE YARD OR IS IT GOING TO BE [OVERLAPPING]
THAT'S A GREAT REMINDER THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO FIND A HOME FOR THAT IN THE DOWNTOWN.
THERE'S DISCUSSIONS ABOUT PUTTING AT THE WATERFRONT PARK AS POSSIBLE, ONE OF THE ART FEATURES.
IT'S IN SAFE KEEPING, BUT, THAT DOES NEED TO COME BACK DOWN HERE.
TO YOUR COMMENT, CHAIR, YOU ACTUALLY SEE THIS DESIGN PROVIDES FOR AN INCREASE IN THOSE HISTORIC MATERIALS IN THE DOWNTOWN THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW.
AS MENTIONED, THE BRICK CROSSWALKS, WHICH WERE UP AND DOWN, WE DON'T EVEN PAY ATTENTION TO WHERE THEY END, THEY STOP EXCEPT THEY'RE NOT THERE.
YOU CAN INCREASE THE BRICK CROSSWALK, INCREASE THE PAVERS IN THE DOWNTOWN.
THE GOAL IS TO INCREASE HISTORIC MATERIALS IN A MAKE SENSE WAY, NOT DECREASE, OR NOT TO MAINTAIN, BUT INCREASE THOSE HISTORIC MATERIALS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
>> BUT HORSE TROT. THAT'S A GOOD REMINDER. WE'LL LOOK INTO IT.
>> I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S OUT THERE AT THE YARD THAT USED TO BE OUT HERE OR DOWNTOWN SOMEWHERE.
BUT COMMENT THAT YOU MADE ABOUT PARKING PLACES AND HANDICAPPED PARKING NEEDED TO BE INCREASED.
I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT WHOLE PLAN, BUT I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST THAT MAYBE WORD NEEDS TO BE GIVEN TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT THEY NEED TO ENFORCE WHAT WE HAVE.
I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE PRETTY MUCH NOT DONE THAT FOR A WHILE.
WE HAVE THREE-HOUR PARKING LIMIT, AND I HAVE SEEN, WHILE TRYING TO FIND A HANDICAPPED PARKING PLACE FOR MY PASSENGER, I HAVE SEEN CARS PARKED IN THOSE SPOTS ALL DAY.
>> I KNOW WHO OWNS IT AND AS A PERSON WHO OWNS A BUSINESS DOWNTOWN.
I KNOW THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE WITH STAYING IN THE SAME PLACE ALL DAY, BUT I THINK THAT IT'S GOTTEN TO BE SUCH AN ISSUE WITH PARKING THAT I WOULD ASK AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE WOULD AGREE WITH ME ON THIS, BUT I WOULD PERSONALLY ASK THAT WE ENFORCE WHAT WE HAVE, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE THAT PARKING WOULD BE AS BIG AN ISSUE AS IT IS IF WE DID THAT.
ALSO, IF WE WERE ABLE IN OUR CONCEPTUAL THINKING ABOUT THIS THING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WE COULD ASK BUSINESS OWNERS AND THEIR STAFF TO PARK.
BECAUSE IN FRONT OF THEIR BUSINESSES IS NOT THE BEST PLACE FOR EITHER THEIR BUSINESS OR THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SHOP THERE.
IS THAT IT, EVERYBODY? ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC? YES, SIR. PLEASE COME UP.
>> I'LL BE QUICK. JOHN HOLBROOK 2009 BEACH STREET.
I BELIEVE ALL THE THREE-HOUR PARKING SIGNS HAVE BEEN TAKEN UP AND THEY'RE NO LONGER THERE.
>> JUST FOR CLARITY, I WAS GOING TO TELL YOU THERE ARE NO SIGNS THAT SAY THERE'S A THREE-HOUR LIMIT AT LEAST IN THE STRETCH THAT I SEE.
>> I AGREE WITH YOU. THANK YOU.
ANYONE ELSE? GO FORTH AND CONQUER.
>> THANK YOU. VERY GOOD FEEDBACK, AND WE'LL BE BACK PROBABLY IN JANUARY WITH CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
CAN I JUST ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT THE BUSINESSES? COULD YOU COME UP, PLEASE? NAME AND ADDRESS.
>> LISA FINKELSTEIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET.
>> THE QUESTION I'M ASKING ON THIS IS, WHEN THE FIRST RENOVATION OF DOWNTOWN WAS DONE IN THE '70S, THERE WERE STREETS THAT OF NECESSITY HAD TO BE DUG UP AND SIDEWALKS THAT HAD TO BE DUG UP.
I DIDN'T HEAR THAT WE WOULD BE BLOCKING OFF BUSINESSES FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME WITH THIS PROJECT.
DO THE BUSINESSES' DOWNTOWN KNOW THIS IS COMING AND THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE IMPLICATION IS FOR THEM?
>> THEY KNOW IT'S COMING IN A CONCEPTUAL WAY.
THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND THAT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
[00:25:04]
AS FAR AS DETAILS, WE REALLY HAVEN'T HAD.EVEN A TIMELINE THAT I'VE FELT COMFORTABLE SHARING, I THINK ONCE WE GO OUT TO BID, WE'LL HAVE A BETTER SENSE FOR THAT.
WE'RE ANTICIPATING POSSIBLY NEXT SUMMER, BUT ONE THING THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, JEREMIAH AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT, AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT WITH THE DESIGN FIRM AND JUST AMONG OTHERS IN THE CITY, IS THE NEED FOR SOME TYPE OF A MARKETING PLAN TO GO ALONG WITH THIS TO HELP PROMOTE THE PROJECT TO THE PUBLIC, SO THE PUBLIC'S AWARE OF.
SOMETIMES YOU'LL SEE A SIGN AT A CONSTRUCTION AREA THAT SAYS, NEW SIDEWALKS COMING BY AND AN ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE.
THEN PART OF WHAT MAIN STREET IS LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW, TOO, ARE SOME PROGRAMS THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE PUT INTO PLACE WHEN THEY'VE GONE THROUGH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, SO WE HAVE A GREAT RESOURCE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, AND THERE ARE SEVERAL COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE SHARED WITH US A DOCUMENT THAT THEY'VE PUT TOGETHER THAT HAS BEEN A RESOURCE DOCUMENT FOR THE BUSINESSES, BOTH MARKETING, PROMOTIONS, A GRANT PROGRAM, DOWNTOWN DOLLARS.
THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO RIGHT NOW TO SUPPORT THIS EFFORT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHERE BEST MAIN STREET CAN PARTNER WITH THE CITY TO MAKE THIS PROJECT SUCCESSFUL AND AS PAIN LIST AS POSSIBLE.
IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF PAIN.
>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT, THOUGH.
AS IN DEVELOPMENT, WE WOULD OFTEN PARDON OUR DUST CAMPAIGN.
>> I THINK IT'S YES FOR THE BUSINESSES, AND YOU CAN HEAD THAT UP WITH A WHOLE PROGRAM FOR THE BUSINESSES SO THEY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND WHEN, BUT THEN OUR TWO OTHER CUSTOMERS ARE TOURISTS AND RESIDENTS, AND WHEN TOURISTS COME TO VISIT, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN FERNANDINA, AND THEN RESIDENTS THAT AREN'T ENGAGED AND INVOLVED, THE MINUTE A SHOVEL HITS THE ROAD, IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, THAT'S WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE HITS THE FAN.
IF WE CAN SAY PARDON OUR DUST AND THEN MAYBE A COUPLE OF BULLET POINTS, [OVERLAPPING] SOME POSITIVE THINGS AND REALLY HAVE A GOOD [OVERLAPPING].
>> EXACTLY. THAT'S THE ROLE THAT MAIN STREET'S BEEN TAKING AS WE'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS, AS WELL AS JUST ADVOCATING FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THOSE BRICK CROSSWALKS AND THE OTHER ELEMENTS EXPANDING THE PAVER SECTION.
MAIN STREET HAS ACTUALLY PURCHASED HISTORIC PAVERS FROM JACKSONVILLE AND HAD THEM BROUGHT UP TO THE YARD HERE SO THAT WE HAVE AN INVENTORY THAT WILL BE ABLE TO BE USED TO COMPLETE THAT BLOCK BETWEEN FOURTH AND FIFTH.
I THINK IT'S WORKING WELL, BUT APPRECIATE THAT THOUGHT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH IT, TOO.
>> THANK YOU. JEREMIAH, DO YOU HAVE TO BE HERE FOR ANY OTHER PRESERVATION? YOU DO NOT. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK Y'ALL. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME [OVERLAPPING].
>> MADAM ATTORNEY, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU, PLEASE TO SINCE I DID THIS OUT THE ORDER.
>> WE WERE JUST TALKING WORK. [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE WERE GETTING A MEETING RIGHT IN THERE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, BUT IT WAS SCREWED.
>> I HAVE SCREWED UP THE ORDER, BUT COULD YOU JUST DESCRIBE THE [OVERLAPPING]
>> NO ORDER HAS BEEN BEEN MESSED UP AT ALL.
>> ANYWAY, WE HAVE THREE CASES TONIGHT, MS. GIBSON.
I BELIEVE I LOOKED AT THE AGENDA EARLIER.
NO VARIANCES BECAUSE THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SPECIAL IN TERMS OF THE VOTING.
GOT THREE CASES SEEKING CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS, AND THIS BOARD IS ACTING IN A QUASI JUDICIAL CAPACITY FOR THESE CASES.
WHAT THAT MEANS, IS THAT JUST LIKE IT SAYS, QUASI, THEY'RE NOT REALLY JUDGES, BUT THEY'RE ACTING LIKE JUDGES.
THE RULES OF EVIDENCE AND ALL OF THAT I OBJECT DOESN'T APPLY HERE.
BUT WHAT WE DO IS THAT THESE BOARD MEMBERS ARE GOING TO BE TAKING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY DURING EACH ONE OF THE CASES, AND SO IF ANYBODY HERE WISHES TO SPEAK, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT SURE YOU WANT TO SPEAK, EVEN IF IT'S JUST GOING TO BE [INAUDIBLE] PLEASE STAND BECAUSE EVERYBODY THAT SPEAKS IS GOING TO BE SPEAKING UNDER OATH, AND WE'RE CREATING A RECORD TONIGHT IN CASE THERE IS AN APPEAL OF ANY OF THE DECISIONS MADE BY THE BOARD.
THE ORDER OF THE PRESENTATIONS AND EVIDENCE IS FIRST, MS. GIBSON WITH CITY STAFF IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION, INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD,
[00:30:01]
AND SHE MAY CALL WITNESSES, ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK SHE HAS ANY.THERE ARE DOCUMENTS THAT WERE UPLOADED TO THE CITY'S WEBSITE WITH THE AGENDA ABOUT A WEEK AGO, INCLUDING THE APPLICATION FROM THE APPLICANT STAFF REPORT AND OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS.
THOSE ARE ALL PART OF THE RECORD NOW.
OTHER ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS CAN BE ADDED TONIGHT.
STAFF WON'T HAVE ANY, BUT THE APPLICANT AND AFFECTED PARTIES CAN ADD THOSE DOCUMENTS OR PHOTOGRAPHS TO THE RECORD.
AFTER MS. GIBSON MAKES HER PRESENTATION, INTRODUCES EVIDENCE, THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER OR APPLICANT, AND/OR THEIR AGENT, PROFESSIONAL WILL COME TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND YOU ARE ALSO PRESENTING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY INTO THE RECORD.
AFTER THE PARTIES AND THE PARTIES OF THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER, AFTER THEY MAKE THEIR PRESENTATIONS, INTRODUCE THEIR EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, THEN AFFECTED PARTIES, WHICH MEANS YOU ARE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE NEXT DOOR ON THE SAME STREET, YOU'RE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, YOU'RE AN AFFECTED PARTY.
YOU ALSO CAN COME TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND YOU WILL BE GIVING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY ON THE RECORD.
THE BOARD IS MAKING THEIR DECISION BASED ON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
AND THIS MAKES IT MORE LIKE A COURT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CONSIDER OR WEIGH EVIDENCE THAT IS OPINION BASED.
THIS PROJECT IS GOING TO DEVALUE MY PROPERTY.
IF YOU'RE NOT A PROPERTY APPRAISER OR AN APPRAISER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, HAVE EXPERTISE IN PROPERTY VALUES, YOUR TESTIMONY IS FINE.
IT'S JUST THE BOARD CANNOT WEIGH THAT MORE THAN THE TESTIMONY OF AN EXPERT.
FOR EXAMPLE, MS. GIBSON IS AN EXPERT.
THE ARCHITECTS WE MAY HAVE HERE TONIGHT ARE EXPERTS, BUT NEIGHBORS, UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERTISE, STATED ON THE RECORD, ARE NOT EXPERTS.
BUT THEIR OPINIONS ARE VALUABLE, BUT YOU WOULD WEIGH THAT ACCORDINGLY.
EXPERT OPINION, LAY PERSON TESTIMONY IS WEIGHED LESS THAN THAT.
IF THERE AREN'T ANY QUESTIONS, THEN THE NEXT STEP IS APPEAL.
IF ANY OF THE DECISIONS ARE TO BE APPEALED, THAT APPEAL IS FILED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD'S WRITTEN FINDINGS OF FACT.
ABOUT 35 CALENDAR DAYS FROM TODAY IS THE SHORT STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS THROUGH THE CHAIR TO ANY AUDIENCE MEMBERS?
>> ANYONE WITH QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS CAN STAND? ANYBODY WHO DOES EXPECT TO TESTIFY TONIGHT OR SPEAK ABOUT ANY OF THESE CASES, PLEASE RISE SO THAT WE CAN ADMINISTER THE OATH TO YOU, PLEASE.
>> [BACKGROUND] RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEAK, [NOISE] DO YOU WANT EVERYBODY TO FILL OUT A FORM?
>> IDEALLY, YES. IT HELPS US WITH MAKING SURE THAT WE GET YOUR NAME ACCURATELY SPELLED AND YOUR ADDRESS.
BEFORE YOU LEAVE TONIGHT, NOT NECESSARILY BEFORE YOU COME UP TO SPEAK, BUT BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE FILL OUT ONE OF THE FORMS THAT'S AT THE DOOR AND GIVE IT TO MS. GIBSON.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO SAY GOODBYE TO MR. POZZETTA, HE'S GOING TO SIT DOWN THERE.
WE'RE GOING TO START WITH CASE 2024-0016. MS. GIBSON.
[5.1 HDC 2024-0016 - JAMES POZZETTA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR ANTHONY SCALIES, 310 N. 5TH STREET CONCEPTUAL]
>> I'LL TRY TO MAKE SURE I'M SPEAKING INTO THE MICROPHONE.
I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT PROJECTING, BUT I'LL DO MY BEST.
THIS EVENING, YOU ARE CONSIDERING A CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO STORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 310 NORTH FIFTH STREET.
THIS IS A STRUCTURE THAT IS PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED BEHIND AN EXISTING NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE WITHIN THE DISTRICT.
FOR THE RECORD, ALL THE REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED.
ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, AND ALL NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE.
AS PART OF THIS, THE SAF REPORT, AS WELL AS ALL APPLICATION MATERIALS PROVIDED AS BACKUP AS THE AGENDA ITEM ARE MADE PART OF THE RECORD, AS WELL AS THE PRESENTATION HERE THIS EVENING.
THIS IS A STRUCTURE THAT IS CERTAINLY VALUABLE TO OUR DISTRICT.
HOWEVER, IT DOES HAVE CURRENTLY HAVE A NON CONTRIBUTING STATUS.
UNFORTUNATELY, DID LOSE ITS CONTRIBUTING STATUS BACK IN 2018 WHEN OUR RESURVEY OCCURRED AND THAT IS LARGELY DUE TO SOME OF THE FRONT FACADE ALTERATIONS THAT WERE MADE AND APPROVED PREVIOUSLY.
IF IN THE FUTURE, THE PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD LIKE TO REGAIN CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE STATUS, I'D BE HAPPY TO TALK WITH THEM ABOUT HOW THAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE AND THEN THAT WOULD GET MODIFIED AT A FUTURE RESURVEY.
BUT THIS EVENING, WE ARE SIMPLY DISCUSSING THE PROPOSAL FOR AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT TO BE CONSTRUCTED FULLY BEHIND THAT STRUCTURE.
IT WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE WITH EXCEPTION OF A SMALL AREA FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY AND CERTAINLY ALL THE WAY TOWARDS THE BACK,
[00:35:04]
CONSISTENT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE STANDARDS FOR LOCATION, SIZE, AND PLACEMENT OF THAT TYPE OF STRUCTURE.THIS IS THE SITE PLAN PROVIDED AS WELL AS ONE OF THE ELEVATIONS, THE BACKUP MATERIALS DO CONTAIN THE REMAINDER OF THOSE ELEVATIONS FOR YOUR REVIEW.
THE APPLICANT THIS EVENING IS REQUESTING A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL REVIEW.
YOU WILL SEE THIS PROJECT COME BACK AT A FUTURE DATE.
AT THIS POINT, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR YOUR FEEDBACK AND TO DETERMINE IF THERE ARE ANY MODIFICATIONS THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE PRIOR TO RETURNING FOR FINAL.
AS SUCH, SAF HAS REVIEWED THE REQUEST WITH THE FERNANDINA BEACH LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, AS WELL AS THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS AND HAS FOUND THE APPLICATIONS REQUEST FOR CONCEPTUAL REVIEW TO BE COMPLIANT AND ISSUES A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE?
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON?
>> I HAVE ONE. DOES IT MEET THE STANDARDS FOR SETBACKS?
>> WHAT ARE THE SETBACKS FOR DOWNTOWN?
>> THREE FEET FROM THE SIDE AND THE REAR, AND IT IS BASED ON THE ZONING DISTRICT.
>> THANK YOU. AND THAT'S THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT?
>> I BELIEVE THIS IS LOCATED WITHIN AN R TWO ZONING DISTRICT.
WITHIN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, HOWEVER, YOU CAN GO RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM MS. GIBSON? SO THE APPLICANT, MR. POZZETTA, PLEASE?
>> GOOD EVENING, JAMES POZZETTA, ARCHITECT 103 SOUTH 18TH STREET FERNANDINA BEACH.
SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP SETBACKS, I THINK MAYBE I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THOSE.
THESE SPECIFICALLY MEET THE ACCESSORY BUILDING, ACCESSORY DWELLING SETBACKS, WHICH ARE THREE FEET ON THE BACK, THREE FEET ON THE SIDES.
HOWEVER, I DID STEP THE BUILDING IN A BIT SO THAT WE COULD ACCOMPLISH SOME OTHER DESIGN STRATEGIES, MAINLY, WHICH WERE TO BRING DOWN THE SCALE AND MASSING OF THE HOUSE.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT WAS RIGHT UP ON THAT THREE FOOT SETBACK, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PUT ANY WINDOWS ON THERE FOR FIRE CODE REASONS.
I'VE HELD IT IN 3'6", SO I CAN PUT WINDOWS ON THERE.
THE WINDOWS WILL HELP BRING DOWN SOME OF THAT SCALE, THE ROOF ELEMENT IS BROKEN INSTEAD OF ONE BIG MONUMENTAL ROOF, IT'S BROKEN IN THE SMALLER ELEMENTS TO KEEP THE OVERALL HEIGHT LOWER AND MEAN OUR HEIGHT MAXIMUM AS WELL.
BUT IT ALSO AT THE SAME TIME IS A DESIGN FEATURE.
IT HELPS BREAK DOWN THE SCALE AND THE MASS OF THE BUILDING.
WE'VE ADDED TRIM BELT COURSE AT THE SECOND FLOOR LEVEL, ONCE AGAIN, THAT WAY, WE DON'T HAVE A TWO STORY HIGH WALL OF LAP SIDING.
IT'S BROKEN UP WITH SOME TRIM TO GIVE IT A LITTLE DETAIL AND SOME INTEREST ON IT.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HERE TO ANSWER THAT.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. POZZETTA?
>> ONE OF THE REASONS OR ONE OF YOUR DESIGN ELEMENTS THAT I THINK WAS HANDLED WELL, AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS, THE MAIN STRUCTURE HAS A PRETTY LOW PITCHED ROOF?
>> IT LOOKS LIKE YOU TRIED TO MIMIC IT ON THE 12/2 ON THAT ONE SIDE, AND THEN YOU JUST POPPED A LITTLE FRONT GABLE JUST TO SO IT DIDN'T LOOK SO FLAT?
>> IS THERE A RETURN ON THAT ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THAT GABLE?
>> YEAH. GOES IT GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN.
>> IT GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN. WE'VE GOT SOME DISTANCE ON THERE.
THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD, JIM, WAS LOOKING AT THE TEPO MAPS AND KNOWING THIS SITE, YOU'RE BASICALLY SITTING ON THE CREST OF THE HILL.
THAT'S LIKE THE ONE HILL I CAN GET IN AND MY WALK IN THE MORNING.
[LAUGHTER] I SEE THAT YOU'RE MAINTAINING THE PROPER PERVIOUS TO IMPERVIOUS WITH THE PAVERS.
BUT WE ALL KNOW, TOO, WHEN WE GET THESE BIG RAINS, EVEN A PERVIOUS PAVER DRIVEWAY SHEDS WATER.
IS THERE A WAY THAT WE ARE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION WHERE YOUR WATER IS GOING FROM THIS?
>> I ACTUALLY MET AT STORMWATER MANAGEMENT ON MONDAY.
NOT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS PROJECT, BUT MORE IN GENERAL.
THERE ARE DETAILS THAT THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IS SUGGESTING PEOPLE USE FOR SPECIFICALLY FOR THESE PERVIOUS PAVERS.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT THEN ALLOWS YOU TO
[00:40:03]
STORE WATER UNDERNEATH YOUR DRIVE AND SUCH.BECAUSE OF PERVIOUS, IT CAN GET DOWN IN THERE AND STORE IN.
THAT IS CERTAINLY PART OF THE STRATEGY SO THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE DUMPING STORMWATER OUT INTO THE STREET.
>> WILL THAT HAVE TO BE PART OF THE PLAN THAT SUBMITTED TO THE BUILDING.
>> TECHNICALLY, THE CURRENT RULE, I BELIEVE, AND KELLY CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS IF YOU ARE AT 625 SQUARE FEET OR MORE, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A DRAINAGE PLAN DONE BY A CIVIL ENGINEER.
WE'RE A LITTLE BIT UNDER THAT, SO WE'RE NOT REQUIRED BY THE CITY TO SUBMIT THAT.
>> YOU'LL HAVE TO BEAR WITH ME. I JUST GOT MY NETFLIX TONIGHT.
BUT WHAT IS THE ONSITE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR ADU ALONG WITH THE HOUSE?
>> I'M NOT AWARE THAT THERE IS AN ONSITE PARKING REQUIREMENT.
SINCE IT'S A GARAGE, THERE'S TWO SPACES INSIDE, SO RIGHT AWAY THERE'S TWO PARKING INSIDE OF THE GARAGE.
>> YOU CAN HAVE A HOUSE AND YOU CAN HAVE AN APARTMENT, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ANYBODY A PLACE TO PARK?
>> NOT IN THAT AREA. I DON'T THINK.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
>> I THINK IT'S A GREAT DESIGN, AND YOU ARE EVEN ABLE TO HIDE A SHOWER BEHIND THE STEPS, WHICH I WAS CREATIVE.
>> I'M CURIOUS WHY YOU'RE GOING FOR CONCEPTUAL INSTEAD OF FINAL.
DO YOU HAVE A CONCERN THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT?
>> WELL, I WAS GOING TO ASK YOUR INDULGENCE [LAUGHTER] BECAUSE ALL THE DRAWINGS HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED.
IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU TO REVIEW, I DON'T NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND WHY WE HAD TO GO FOR CONCEPTUAL.
>> I THINK IT'S SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT'S THE BOX YOU CHECKED WHEN MAKING THE APPLICATION.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT WAS HOW IT WAS ADVERTISED YOU REQUESTED CONCEPTUAL OVERVIEW.
>> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE RESTRICTED TO THAT BECAUSE IT WAS ADVERTISED THAT WAY, BECAUSE WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE, WE'VE GONE RIGHT TO FINAL.
[NOISE] THE ADVERTISEMENT INVITES EVERYBODY TO THE HEARING AND IF THEY DON'T SHOW UP, THEY CAN'T COMPLAIN LATER IF YOU DECIDE TO FINAL APPROVE IT.
>> OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, [NOISE] OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
[NOISE] CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. BOARD DISCUSSION.
>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ON HERE.
[NOISE] ALL THE PROPER BOXES EXCEPT CONCEPTUAL AND FINAL HAVE BEEN CHECKED.
[LAUGHTER] JIM'S PLANS ARE ALWAYS VERY DETAILED.
I HAD NO CONCERNS ABOUT EVERYTHING.
I THINK IT FITS WELL, AND I THINK IT WAS A THOUGHTFUL DESIGN AND I THINK WE SHOULD ENTERTAIN MOVING IT TO A FINAL AND LET THEM GET MOVING ON IT.
>> I MOVE TO APPROVE HCC CASE NUMBER 2024-0016 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
I KNOW THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE 2024-0016, AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION BY MEMBER KOSACK AND A SECOND BY MEMBER GASS. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
RIVETING. NEXT WE CALL FOR HTC CASE 2024-0025.
[5.2 HDC 2024-0025 - RICE ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR TEIXEIRA DAVID LIVING TRUST, 509 BEECH STREET FINAL]
APPLICANT [NOISE], PLEASE. IS THE APPLICANT HERE? YES. I SEE BACK HERE IN THE CORNER.>> YES AND ON THIS CASE THE APPLICANT DID SELECT A FINAL BOX [LAUGHTER].
THIS IS A REQUEST FOR SEVERAL CHANGES TO PROPERTY LOCATED AT 509 BEECH STREET.
THIS MAY LOOK FAMILIAR TO THOSE OF THE BOARD WHO WERE HERE AT THE LAST MEETING.
THE BOARD DID CONSIDER IT AT CONCEPTUAL AT THAT POINT IN TIME, JUST ONE MONTH AGO.
[00:45:01]
THIS IS FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH A SECTION OF A PRIOR ADDITION.CONSTRUCT A NEW LIVING SPACE TO THE REAR, CONSTRUCT AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, REMOVE A SCREEN ENCLOSURE, AND AT THIS TIME, TO ADD A POOL.
I KNOW, UNDER CONCEPTUAL, THE POOL IS NOT INCLUDED AS PART OF THE REVIEW.
AT FINAL, IT IS BEING REQUESTED.
ALL REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, AND ALL NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE THE STAFF REPORT, AS WELL AS ALL OF THE BACKUP DOCUMENTATION, AND THE PRESENTATIONS EVENING ARE MADE PART OF THE OFFICIAL RECORD FOR THIS CASE.
AGAIN, THIS IS A PROPERTY LOCATED ON BEECH STREET.
IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO OUR DISTRICT WITHIN APPROXIMATE AGE OF 1930.
NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED IN RELATIONSHIP TO WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY REVIEWED BY THE BOARD AT A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL.
SOME DETAILS HAVE BEEN INCORPORATED THAT WERE DIRECTED BY THE BOARD PREVIOUSLY IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE SITE PLACEMENT, I KNOW, THE UTILITY POLE LOCATION WAS ALSO INCORPORATED.
AS WELL AS THE POOL, INFORMATION ABOUT THE POOL HAS BEEN PROVIDED AS PART OF THE REVIEW.
EVERYTHING HAS BEEN REVIEWED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT STANDARDS, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, SUFFICIENT TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT A FINAL REVIEW AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
WITH THAT, I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON.
COULD YOU GIVE ME A PRESENTATION?
>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
THERE'S A DETAIL OR TWO IN THIS DRAWING THAT'S MORE CLEAR IF I COULD PASS THESE.
>> [LAUGHTER] WHY DOES IT ALWAYS LOOK LIKE IT'S SNOWING THE CLAIM OFF.
>> THOSE OF YOU WHO AREN'T HERE, OUR FIRST PRELIMINARY REVIEW, I JUST WANTED TO RECAP A COUPLE OF THINGS.
THE DESIGN INTENT HAS BEEN TO KEEP THE MAIN ORIGINAL STRUCTURE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
SOME QUESTIONS OF THE EXACT DATE OF WHEN THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT.
THEN THERE'S AN ADDITION THAT WAS BUILT, WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY, BUT IT SOME OF THE DATES ARE IN THE 30S.
THE PART THAT WAS IN THE 30S IS THE PART THAT WE'RE REMOVING AND THEN THERE'S A PART THAT WAS BUILT AS A SCREEN PORCH.
LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BUILT AFTER THE UPGRADING THE HURRICANE CODE, SO IT'S PROBABLY IN THE 90S OR SOMETHING.
BUT MADE TO LOOK AS IT WAS HISTORIC.
THOSE ELEMENTS ARE BEING REMOVED.
WHAT WE'RE ADDING IN THE BACK IS GOING TO BE A NEW KITCHEN IN A MASTER SUITE, AND A DAY ROOM WITH A PORCH OVERLOOKING THE BACKYARD.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THOSE SPACES IS THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT THE MASSING OF THOSE SPACES ARE SUCH THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ARTICULATE THE MASS OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND THEN WE'RE BRINGING IN SOME OF THE ROOF FORMS WITH THE AREA OVER THE MASTER SUITE.
THE FACADE SET BACK FROM THE MAIN FACADE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S A COURTYARD BETWEEN THE ADU AND THE MAIN HOUSE, AND THAT'LL LEAD BACK INTO A NEW POOL AREA.
WITH THAT, I CAN OPEN UP TO ANY QUESTIONS.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. RICE.
>> RANDY, YOU'RE LOOKING THROUGH THE DRAWINGS FOR SOME CONSTRUCTION DETAILS OF THE ATTACHMENT TRANSITION JUNCTURE FROM THE ADDITION TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
DO WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT SHOWS US WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE AND HOW YOU'RE ACHIEVING THAT WITH THE OLD STRUCTURE?
>> THE ORIGINAL BUILDING IS BASICALLY BEING LEFT INTACT, SO WE ARE BUILDING ONTO THE SIDE OF THAT EDGE OF THAT WALL THERE.
[00:50:04]
BUT THERE'S ONE WALL THAT'S CONNECTING UP TO THE MAIN BOX OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND THEN THERE'S AN OPENING THAT'S HAPPENING IN TO THE KITCHEN THAT'S CURRENTLY THERE, BUT THAT AREA WOULD BE OPENED UP SO INSTEAD OF BEING THREE FEET, IT WOULD BE LIKE SEVEN FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.>> YOU'RE PUNCTURING THROUGH A PART OF IT AND MAKING IT LIKE A CASED OPENING SOMETHING?
>> FROM THE DINING ROOM TO THE KITCHEN, THERE'LL JUST BE A LARGER OPENING BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND THE NEW ADDITION.
>> THEN WHERE THE ADDITION BUTTS UP TO THE PART THAT'S NOT BEING OPENED, WILL YOU RETAIN THE OLD HOUSE BEHIND IT AND JUST BUILD IN FRONT OF IT, ALMOST LIKE A CURTAIN WALL OR?
>> I THINK THE GIST I'M GETTING IS ONE OF OUR MANDATES HERE IS, ESPECIALLY WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE THAT ORIGINAL HOME, AND WE'RE ADDING ON A PIECE ONTO IT, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT IT AS IF IN THE FUTURE, THEY DECIDED TO REMOVE THIS NEW ADDITION.
COULD THE ORIGINAL ONE STILL REMAIN INTACT.
I THINK YOU'RE ASKING, CAN WE PRESERVE ANY OF THAT ORIGINAL WALL, EVEN JUST INTO IT WITH RUN ANOTHER WALL JUST OUTSIDE OF IT SO THAT WE CAN ADHERE TO THAT KIND OF MANDATE THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN AND DO TOUCH IT WITH AS GENTLE A TOUCH AS POSSIBLE SO THAT COULD BE RETURNED TO ITS ORIGINAL FORM IN THE FUTURE, IF EVER.
>> IN 5,000 YEARS, WHATEVER, WHEN SOMEBODY IS IN THE NEW EDITION AND SAYING, OH, LOOK AT THIS WORK THAT THEY DID BACK THEN.
LET'S RIP OFF THIS DRYWALL, THEN THEY SAY, THIS WAS THE END OF THE HOUSE ORIGINALLY.
IT INFORMS THEM A LITTLE BIT MORE OF WHERE THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WAS.
>> YES. I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT.
IN THIS CASE, DUE TO THE USABILITY OF THE SPACE BY HAVING A NARROW THREE FOOT OPENING BETWEEN THE OLD HOUSE AND THE NEW AREA, THAT WOULD BE DEEMED PRETTY RESTRICTIVE IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL USABILITY, AND SO TRYING TO CREATE A CONNECTIVITY FOR THE USER SO THAT THE DINING ROOM SAY AND THE KITCHEN SPACE ARE COLLAPSED APART WITH A WALL.
THAT'S THE REASON TO EXPAND THAT OPENING AND NOT TRY TO PRESERVE THE EXACT FORMAT OF THAT SPACE.
>> THINK WE'RE PROBABLY OKAY WITH EXPANDING THE OPENING, BUT IT'S JUST THINGS ON EITHER SIDE OF IT.
>> LET'S ASIDE THE EXISTING SIDE AND THEN GO BUILD OVER THAT.
I DO THINK THE STRATEGY YOU'VE DEVELOPED HERE IS, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY NICE LITTLE SUBTLE THINGS YOU'VE DONE.
THE CONCEPT OF CREATING A U INSTEAD OF IT REALLY HELPS ALLOW US TO READ THAT ORIGINAL HOME AS IT STILL IS THE ORIGINAL HOME.
YET, YOU'VE STILL ADDED ON IT PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL ADDITION WITHOUT DEVOURING THE OLD HOME, SO TO SPEAK.
I DEFINITELY LIKE THAT AND APPLAUD YOU FOR THAT THOSE SUBTLE WORKS, AND THE SCALE OF IT READS IS SECONDARY TO THE OLD MAIN HOUSE.
I REALLY LIKE THE WAY THAT THAT HAS WORKED OUT.
I WOULD LOOKING AT THE ADU LEFT ELEVATION, THIS WILL REALLY BE MY ONLY COMMENT ON IT WOULD BE IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS THE SCALE ON THAT SIDE, WHICH IS KELLY, I THINK IT'S PAGE B 3.1.
>> THERE'S A GOOD RENDERING ON B51, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE GOOD CALL, JIM.
MY SUBCONSCIOUS IS SAYING THAT WE NEED TO AT LEAST SHUTTERED WINDOWS ON THAT WALL.
>> THE NET LOOKING AT TWO STORIES OF WALL.
>> THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO DO.
>> A COUPLE EVEN IF REAL WINDOWS WOULD BE IDEAL, BUT EVEN FALSE WINDOWS WOULD HELP BREAK THAT SCALE DOWN.
OTHERWISE, LIKE THE FRONT OF THE ADU.
I REALLY NICE, I LIKE HOW YOU'VE BROKEN THAT UP AND YOU PUT THAT LITTLE EYEBROW OVER THE GARAGE DOORS AND IT HELPS FILL UP THAT SPACE THAT OTHERWISE WOULD BE A LOT OF WALL.
THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY NICE DETAILS.
BUT YOU COULD PUT A BAND BOARD BACK BEHIND THAT EYEBROW AND CARRY THAT
[00:55:04]
AROUND INSIDE AND BREAK IT UP JUST DO IT LIKE A TWO BY 12 OF SOME SORT.>> I'M JUST THE OLD MAIN HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE A BAND BOARD.
>> THAT'S WHY I WAS THINKING WINDOWS OR SOMETHING THAT EVOKES WINDOW.
>> DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THE MATERIAL, IT SAYS MATCH EXISTING SIDING.
ARE YOU MATCHING IN A WOOD PRODUCT OR A HARDY I DIDN'T SEE A CALL UP>
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE'RE OPEN TO A WOOD PRODUCT, WE HAVE A PRODUCT THAT HAS I DON'T BELIEVE HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL BEFORE, THAT I'D LIKE TO SUBMIT THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW, BUT IT'S A LOUISIANA PACIFIC SMART SIDE PRODUCT.
IT'S A WOOD COMPOSITE MATERIAL THAT HAS A HAS A CEDAR CRANE TO IT, IF YOU WILL.
>> MS. GIBSON, ARE YOU AWARE OF THE PRODUCT? I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT.
>> I THANKFULLY CALL ATTENTION TO THE IMPACT DURABILITY, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S BETTER THAT THE LOOK IN OUR OPINION IS HIGHLY SUPERIOR TO, LIKE, A COMPOSITE SIDING.
>> IS THAT CAN THAT PRODUCT BE USED EITHER WAY? IS IT YOU CAN USE EITHER SIDE, THEY HAVE A SMOOTH SIDE OR THEY HAVE THE GRAIN SIDE?
>> I'M NOT AWARE. I'M NOT SURE.
>> HAVE YOU SEEN IT IN PERSON?
>> I SAW IT ON THE PLANS AND I WENT TO THE WEBSITE AND LOOKED IT UP AND I COULDN'T REALLY DETERMINE HOW THICK IS THE BUTT ON THAT LAP SIDE.
>> DIMENSION IS LIKE 44 INCHES, 0.4 AND CHANGE INCHES, WAS THE DIMENSION BALDER TO HARDY THAN.
>> WE WOULD APPROVE A PARTY FOR A NEW THING.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD CAUTION IS I'VE USED A SIMILAR PRODUCT, I THINK IT WAS BY EGCORN, AND IT LOOKED GREAT AND THEN WE GOT IT, AND WE LOOKED AT IT.
THE GRAIN SIDE LOOKED SO FAKE.
YOU LIKE IT JUST LOOKED LIKE A BAD STAMP.
>> I WOULD JUST CAUTION MAKE SURE YOU SEE THE PRODUCT IN PERSON BEFORE ORDERING.
>> VERY GOOD. IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH A HARDY.
HARDY WOULD BE APPROVED OR IF THAT PRODUCT IS REVERSIBLE AND YOU CAN GO WITH THE BACK OF IT OR A SMOOTH THING.
THEN ALONG THOSE LINES, THIS MIGHT BE PART OF BOARD DISCUSSION, BUT WE USUALLY ENCOURAGE A SLIGHT DIFFERENTIATION IN EITHER EXPOSURE OR SOMETHING IN THE SIDING FROM THE NEW ADDITIONS FROM THE OLD.
WE DON'T NECESSARILY, WELL, WE DON'T WANT YOU TO MATCH EXACTLY, IF IT HAS A FOUR INCH EXPOSURE.
GIVE US A 3.5 OR FIVE OR A 4.5 OR SOMETHING, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW FROM THE PRODUCT ITSELF, BUT TO BE CONSISTENT, I THINK WE SHOULD STICK WITH THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> PROCEDURALLY, MS. GIBSON, CAN THE BOARD APPROVE A PRODUCT THAT HASN'T BEEN MADE STANDARD?
>> THE BOARD CAN FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, NOT ON THIS OR I. WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN IF LET'S SAY THAT THE BOARD'S READY TO GIVE FINAL APPROVAL FOR EVERYTHING EXCEPT THAT.
WE WOULD RETURN THIS FOR FINAL APPROVAL THEN.
ONLY BECAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PRODUCT.
I WOULD THINK THAT WE WOULD WANT TO AT LEAST SEE THAT PRODUCT FIRST TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE LOCAL OF IT, BECAUSE THIS WOULD BE A NEW MATERIAL, TO MY KNOWLEDGE BEING UTILIZED WITHIN THE DISTRICT.
>> IS THERE A REASON THAT SUPRISED THAT YOU DIDN'T USE HARDY OR DIDN'T PLANT GO?
>> RAY, WE FEEL LIKE THIS WOULD BE A TRUE TO HISTORIC DISTRICT TYPE PRODUCT, THAT THIS IS A MORE CURRENT TECHNOLOGY, IF YOU WILL, OF DEVELOPMENT IN TERMS OF PRODUCT THAT WOULD ASSIMILATE BETTER, JUST TO SAY.
BUT I THINK WE ARE WILLING TO FOREGO THIS AT THIS JUNCTURE IF IT'S GOING TO DELAY OUR PROJECT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
>> WHAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER DOING IS APPROVING IT WITH THE HARDY PLANK AT THIS TIME AND THEN REQUEST A PRESENTATION AT THE DECEMBER MEETING ABOUT THAT MATERIAL, AND THEN GIVE STAFF DIRECTION TO MODIFY THAT AS PART OF THE BUILDING PERMIT ISSUANCE, IF THE BOARD FEELS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT MATERIAL BEING USED FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.
IF THE BOARD DID FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, IS THAT THE EQUIVALENT OF ADDING IT TO A LIST OF STANDARD PRODUCTS, I ONLY HAVE A WINDOWS LIST.
IT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE NEED TO REALLY VET AS PART OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
WE HOPEFULLY BE REVIEWING THAT TOGETHER IN DECEMBER AS WELL.
[01:00:02]
WE MAY WANT TO INCORPORATE THAT OR OTHER SIMILAR PRODUCTS AS WE EVALUATE THE FINAL DESIGN GUIDELINES.>> I'D LOVE TO SEE THE ACTUAL.
YEAH. THE ACTUAL MATERIAL BECAUSE ON THE WEBSITE, THEIR ROUGH SON CEDAR FINISH ACTUALLY LOOKS BETTER THAN SOME OF THE OTHER ONES I'VE SEEN.
BUT SOMETIMES IT YOU HAVE TO FEEL TO TELL IS IT REALLY GOOD, WHO KNOWS IT MIGHT BE A BETTER PRODUCT THAN SOME OF THE OTHER ONES.
>> YOU WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH A GO AHEAD TO START WITHOUT A DECISION YET MADE ON THAT BOARD?
WE COULD GO WITH THE HARVEY FOR NOW AND PERVIS GIBSON'S SUGGESTION.
>> I GOT ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THE NOTES ABOUT THE WINDOWS.
THEY JUST SEEM A LITTLE VAGUE AS TO THEIR CURRENT CONDITION.
DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW MANY WE'RE PLANNING ON KEEPING? RESTORING AS A VIABLE OPTION AND WE LOOK AT THAT?
>> GREAT QUESTION. THANK YOU. I WENT BY TODAY AGAIN AND RE LOOKED AT THE WINDOWS.
YOU'LL HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS DRILL BEFORE THE WINDOWS ARE NOT ALWAYS SQUARE, AND THERE'S GAPS AND THE THERMAL ISSUES ARE SIGNIFICANT.
THE OWNERS IS COMMITTED TO PRESERVING THE FRONT ELEVATION WINDOWS, HISTORICALLY, AND NOT REPLACING THOSE.
WE HAVE A WINDOW SPECIALIST WHO'S GOING TO TRY TO MIX AND MATCH WHAT WE HAVE LEFT FOR THE REST OF THE HOUSE.
AT THIS JUNCTURE THAT FRONT, WE KNOW, FOR SURE, WE THINK WE CAN DO THE WEST ELEVATION WITH ORIGINALS, AND WE DON'T THINK WE CAN DO THE EAST OR VICE VERSA.
WE, THE SOLAR GAIN ON THE WEST IS SIGNIFICANT, SO IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO DO THE EAST VERSUS THE WEST IF WE CAN'T GET ENOUGH PRODUCT BEYOND ONE SIDE.
>> DYLAN, I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT AND I HAD FORGOT TO BRING IT UP I WAS TALKING ABOUT IT.
I THINK WE AS A BOARD, I KNOW, AT LEAST WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO BE VERY CONSISTENT WITH MAINTAINING EXISTING HISTORIC WINDOWS.
CERTAINLY IF FOR WHATEVER REASON IT NEEDS TO COME OUT, WE'VE BEEN INSISTING ON SEEING ACTUAL DOCUMENTATION WHY THAT ONE NEEDS TO COME OUT.
TYPICALLY, THE ONLY THING THAT'S ACCEPTABLE IS IT'S DEGRADED TO SUCH A POINT THAT IT'S IRREPARABLE AT AT THIS JUNCTURE.
WITHOUT AN ACTUAL REPORT, TO HANG HANG YOUR HAT ON, WE HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVING REMOVAL OF HISTORIC WINDOWS AND REPLACEMENT WITH NEW ONES.
>> THAT'S A PRETTY BIG ISSUE BECAUSE WE'VE HAD A CASE NOT TOO LONG AGO THAT WE APPROVED WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE WINDOWS WOULD NOT BE CHANGED, AND THE CONTRACTOR TOLD THE HOMEOWNER THAT IT WAS OKAY.
WE MADE THEM TAKE THEM ALL OUT AND RESTORE.
DON'T LET THE CONTRACTOR THINK, WE'LL JUST DO A COUPLE OVER HERE AND THEY'LL NEVER KNOW. IT'S A BIG ISSUE.
>> NOW WE HAVE THE SIDING AND WE HAVE THE WINDOWS.
>> I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION ON WINDOWS, RANDY, I CAN'T I CAN'T QUITE TELL FROM THE SKETCHES.
WELL, FIRST, IT LOOKS LIKE THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE HAS PROBABLY FOUR AND EIGHTH CASINGS SITTING ON PROBABLY 2 BY 4 CANTED SILLS.
THEN IN THE NEW ONES, ARE YOU PICTURE FRAMING THE WINDOWS OR ARE YOU HAVING A SILL AND THEN SITTING THE TRIM ON IT?
>> I WAS TO PLAN ON MATCHING THE SAME DETAIL.
>> SO THIS IS JUST A RENDERING THAT'S JUST SHOWING THE PICTURE FRAMING, BUT YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THAT DETAIL?
IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION TO A PERVIOUS MATERIAL IN THE ADU DRIVEWAY? I DON'T WANT TO BE TOO PICKY, BUT IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION TO MATCHING THE PAVERS THAT ARE OUT FRONT THAT YOU HAVE THERE?
>> I JUST DON'T SEE TOO MANY OF THAT STYLE OF DRIVEWAY ELSEWHERE, IS MY ONLY POINT.
>> IN TERMS OF DOING A WHEEL-ONLY SURFACE, IS [NOISE]?
>> JUST THE STYLE OF IT IS THE ONLY THING I'M HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE WITH.
[01:05:02]
>> THE DECORATIVE NATURE OF IT, IF WE COULD MINIMIZE THAT WITH SOME PAVERS THAT CREATED A BETTER DRIVE SURFACE.
>> [INAUDIBLE] A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.
MS. GIBSON, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS DEMOLITION OF A '30S EDITION, WE THINK IT'S A '30S EDITION, ARE THERE ANY SPECIAL PROCEDURES THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF OR FOLLOW CERTAIN POLICIES THAT THE BOARD HAS MADE IN THE PAST ABOUT DEMOLITION? THAT'S STILL CONSIDERED HISTORIC, YES?
>> I AM, TOO. I KNOW THIS THINGS.
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THAT?
>> DOES ANYONE ELSE IN THE BOARD HAVE ANY OR AM I JUST LOOKING FOR TROUBLE?
[BACKGROUND] >> WELL, I THINK NORMALLY, OR IN THE PAST WE'VE APPROVED IT BECAUSE IT WAS DEMONSTRATED THAT IT WAS EITHER BEYOND ANY REASONABLE REPAIR.
IT WAS BUILT OUTSIDE THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE.
WE HAD PHOTOS AND DOCUMENTATION THAT IT WAS AN AWFUL 1940S TACK-ON.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
DO WE KNOW WHAT THIS IS? AND I PROBABLY I MEAN, FROM LOOKING AT IT FROM THE OUTSIDE, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S GOING TO HAVE ANYTHING OF MAJOR VALUE.
I KNOW, DO WE NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT BACKS US UP AS WHY WE LET THEM KNOCK OUT THIS THING? WHAT HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE CONDITION OF THAT ADDITION, MR. RICE?
>> WELL, IT'S CLEARLY AN ADDITION IN THE SENSE THAT YOU COME OUT FROM ONE SPACE.
YOU'RE STEPPING DOWN SLIGHTLY INTO THIS OTHER SPACE.
IT'S THE MOLDING STRATEGY SLIGHTLY MORE AWKWARD THAN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW TO IS IT FALLING APART.
I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT IT'S ABOUT TO FALL DOWN OR ANYTHING.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU NECESSARILY GO BY, IF THAT MAKES SENSE WHEREAS THE FRONT PART OF THE HOUSE WOULD BE.
THE WINDOW STRATEGIES MAKES SUCH A DIFFERENT.
I THOUGHT WE REQUIRED PHOTOS INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR WHEN WE HAD A REQUEST TO DEMOLISH SOMETHING THAT WAS OF A HISTORIC NATURE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE.
>> WELL, IF THE BOARD IS FINISHED WITH THIS PART OF THE DISCUSSION, I'M GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, IS THAT OKAY?
>> ANY COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ABOUT THIS PROJECT? SEEING NONE, CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
YOU HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS IN YOUR APPLICATION PACKAGE THAT I GOT VERY CONFUSED BY JUST BECAUSE I GET LOST VERY EASILY.
THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH THAT SHOWS A PARTIAL BLOCK WALL.
IS THAT OF THE PROPERTY WHERE THE ADDITION WILL BE RIGHT THERE?
>> NO, THAT'S STILL [OVERLAPPING].
>> SO YOU WERE SHOWING THAT ANGLE JUST FOR?
>> TO SEE THE HOUSE BEHIND IT.
>> SO YOU CAN SEE THE HOME THROUGH THE WOODS THERE BECAUSE I COULDN'T GET TO THAT ARE.
>> COULD YOU JUST POINT OUT IS IT THE OTHER SIDE THAT THE ADDITION IS PLANNED?
>> MY POINT WAS I DID NOT WANT YOU TO TOUCH THAT WALL.
>> THE WALL NEEDS TO STAY WHERE IT IS RIGHT THERE.
>> I KNOW. DON'T BE TAKEN [LAUGHTER].
>> WE'LL BE BEFORE SOME OTHER BOARDS IF WE DO THAT.
JUST IN TERMS OF OUR PROCESS OF TRYING TO GET A PRE-APPROVAL TO GET TO THIS POINT, HOPEFULLY WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH A COMPLETE APPROVAL FOR THEM. THANK YOU.
>> I TRIED TO TAKE NOTES ON WHAT EVERYBODY SAID, AND I THINK MAYBE I'LL JUST READ THEM OUT TO YOU GUYS AND YOU CAN TELL ME IS THIS YAY OR NAY OR IS THIS SOMEWHERE.
[01:10:01]
I HAD ADD DETAIL TO THE ADU LEFT ELEVATION.I MADE THE NOTE OF ADD WINDOWS OR SHUTTERS OR BANDBOARD, SOME KIND OF ELEMENTS TO BREAK DOWN THAT TWO STORY SCALE.
VERIFY WITH THE DETAIL THAT THE NEW WINDOW TRIM IS GOING TO MATCH THE EXISTING WINDOW TRIM.
DYLAN, MAYBE YOU COULD ARTICULATE BETTER WHAT YOUR INTENT WITH YOUR DRIVE IS?
>> JUST SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MAKE THAT STAND OUT.
I THINK THAT FRONT SCAPE IS GOING TO LOOK A LITTLE BIT MORE HISTORIC IF IT BLENDS IN WITH ITS NEIGHBOR HOUSE AS IT IS IN THE FRONT WITH THE PAVER AND ONLY ONE.
>> HAD VERIFIED THE NEW SIDING TYPE AND IT'S SPACING AND FINISH JUST ON THE DRAWINGS.
IF YOU DECIDE TO GO WITH HARDIE, THAT'S FINE.
THEN LATER IF YOU'VE DECIDED TO COME TO US WITH A MODIFICATION, WE CAN CERTAINLY REVIEW THAT AT THAT TIME.
THEN LAST THING, ARLENE, I WROTE DOWN MAYBE PHOTO DOCUMENT THE EXISTING ELEMENTS THAT YOU'RE INTENDING TO REMOVE SO THAT WE CAN AT LEAST HAVE PHOTO DOCUMENTATION OF THOSE HISTORIES.
>> THAT THAT COULD BE PLACED IN THE MUSEUM OR SOMETHING THAT GO WITH THAT HOUSE.
>> IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO THAT LIST? DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE MAKING A MOTION?
>> YES. WAS THIS FOR FINAL OR I GUESS THAT'S STILL PART OF OUR DISCUSSION HERE?
>> OR DO YOU FEEL THAT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LIST OF FOUR, FIVE THINGS?
>> I GUESS IT'S A QUESTION FOR KELLY IF SHE FEELS COMFORTABLE LOOKING AT THESE LITTLE BITS TO VERIFY THAT THEY'VE BEEN ADDRESSED.
>> I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS.
I WOULD ADD THAT I ALSO HAD NOTED THE REQUEST TO VERIFY CONDITIONS ON THE WINDOWS ON ALL EXPOSURES OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.
THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I HEARD FROM THE BOARD, MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE CONSISTENT WITH GETTING THE DOCUMENTATION THAT WE REQUIRE FOR ANY OTHER APPLICANT REQUESTING TO REMOVE WINDOWS, INDICATING THAT THAT CONDITION WARRANTS REMOVAL.
OF COURSE, WITH THAT WOULD COME PHOTO DEMONSTRATION ALONG WITH THE SURVEY REQUIRED.
THE SIDING TYPE IS PROBABLY THE MOST CONCERNING FOR ME BECAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT.
THE OTHER REQUESTS, I BELIEVE ARE SOMETHING THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO EASILY HANDLE AS PART OF THE PERMIT.
>> SO IF THE APPROVAL WERE GRANTED TONIGHT THAT SAID IF FOR WHATEVER REASON AFTER YOUR REVIEW, YOU DON'T FEEL THAT THAT SIDING IS APPROPRIATE, THAT WE WOULD GO TO PLAN B, WHICH IS HARDIE BOARD?
>> I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE APPROVING THE HARDIE PLANK AT THIS TIME WITH THE SPECIFICATION FOR THE REVEAL AND THE SMOOTH SIDE VERSUS APPROVING THE ALTERNATE MATERIAL AS PART OF TONIGHT'S REVEAL.
>> CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION OR A QUESTION? IF THEY'RE FEELING THAT THIS PRODUCT IS GREAT LOOKING, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE RATHER THAN A HARDIE.
WE HAVE HARDIE EVERYWHERE GOING IN.
IF KELLY IS NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, CAN SHE SEEK JAMES GUIDANCE ONCE THE PRODUCT COMES IN OR CAN THE PRODUCT BE CIRCULATED TO THE BOARD NOT AT A MEETING SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT SO IT DOESN'T HOLD UP THEIR PROCESS?
>> I'M HAPPY TO PROCEED IN THAT MANNER.
THE PIECE OF IT THAT CAUSES ME THE MOST PAUSE IS KNOWING THAT THE ARCHITECT HAS ALSO NOT SEEN THIS PRODUCT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT MIGHT WORK ON IT.
WELL, WE'RE NOT GOING TO APPROVE.
WE KNOW THAT WE CAN APPROVE HARDIE, AND MAYBE IT'S CONDITIONAL THAT THEY COULD SUB THIS OTHER PRODUCT IF THE ARCHITECT LIKES IT, BRINGS IT IN, AND THEN IT'S CIRCULATED OR SOMEBODY ELSE APPROVES IT, I WOULD FEEL MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE PROCEEDING THAT WAY.
>> THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE BOARD CAN'T APPROVE IT WITHOUT BEING HERE AT A PUBLIC MEETING.
SO EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT SENDING AN EMAIL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT WITH JUST NO OBJECTIONS, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A SUNSHINE LAW VIOLATION I THINK OR AT LEAST IT'S REALLY GETTING THERE BECAUSE IT'S ONE THING FOR YOU TO SEE
[01:15:01]
SOMETHING AND THEN NOT REALLY HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO UP OR DOWN IT, THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO DO IT.I'M SORRY. I DON'T WANT THEM TO WAIT ANYMORE EITHER.
>> BUT LOGISTICALLY, IS IT POSSIBLE TO GO FORWARD WITH THE MOTION WITH THOSE CONDITIONS THAT MR. POZZETTA HAS LAID OUT AND THEN SPIKE THIS CONDITION OUT SEPARATELY THAT WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE HARDIE TONIGHT.
BUT IF THE APPLICANT WANTS TO CHANGE THAT, THEN WE NEED TO SCHEDULE THEM ON AN UPCOMING BOARD MEETING JUST TO DISCUSS THAT PIECE OF IT.
>> YEAH. I'M FINE WITH LEAVING THE DECISION UP TO KELLY, BUT SHE'S NOT.
>> SHE'S NOT. A LOT OF IT IS SHE DON'T KNOW THE MATERIAL.
>> WHEN HE BRINGS IT IN TO YOU IF HE LIKES IT, AND HE SAYS IT'S GOOD, HE DOESN'T WANT TO MESS UP HIS REPUTATION.
THE TWO OF YOU CAN TALK IT OVER TOGETHER.
>> I THINK WE HAVE A REALLY GREAT OPPORTUNITY AT THE DECEMBER MEETING TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS IT AND HAVE THAT MATERIAL IN FRONT OF US AND TRY MAKE A COLLECTIVE DECISION ABOUT ITS USE MOVING FORWARD.
>> IT DOESN'T COST HIM ANYMORE MONEY?
>> WHEN IT COSTS HIM, YOU COULD HAVE THAT ALTERNATIVE THERE AND PROVIDE THAT LATITUDE FOR STAFF TO CONSIDER IT AFTER THE BOARD'S LOOKED AT IT, AND CERTAINLY THEY WON'T BE AT A POINT NEXT MONTH WHERE THEY'RE INSTALLING THE SITING.
>> BECAUSE EVEN IF WE APPROVED TONIGHT, IT'D STILL BE SIX, EIGHT WEEKS BEFORE THEY EVEN POSSIBLY GET A BUILDING PERMIT.
>> THERE WILL NOT BE ANY MATERIALS ON SITE.
>> I'M ACTUALLY REALLY HOPING YOU'RE ABLE TO BRING THAT IN IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL LOVE.
THAT'D BE AWESOME TO HAVE ANOTHER PRODUCT THAT WE CAN TURN TO FOR OTHER HISTORIC HOMES.
I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0025 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, THAT DETAIL BE ADDED TO THE ADU LEFT ELEVATION, WHETHER THAT BE WINDOWS, FIXED SHUTTERS WITH WINDOW TRIM OR SOME KIND OF BANDBOARD TRIM ELEMENT.
VERIFY THAT THE NEW WINDOW TRIM DETAIL WILL MATCH THE EXISTING WINDOW TRIM DETAIL.
REVISE THE ADU DRIVEWAY TO BE SYMPATHETIC TO THE OTHER PAVER DRIVEWAYS THAT'S ALREADY EXISTENT.
VERIFY THE NEW SIDING TYPE AND SPACING.
HDC IS READY TO APPROVE HARDIE TYPE.
BUT WE'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE SPACING ON IT AND THE FINISH IS.
PROVIDE PHOTO DOCUMENTATION OF THE EXISTING ELEMENTS THAT ARE TO BE REMOVED AS PART OF THE PROJECT, AND PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION BY A PROFESSIONAL WINDOW RESTORATION COMPANY FOR ANY WINDOWS ON THE EXISTING HISTORIC HOME THAT ARE TO BE REMOVED.
I MOVED THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD OF THE HDC CASE 2024-0025, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> I HAVE A MOTION BY POZZETTA AND A SECOND BY KOSACK.
[5.3 HDC 2024-0028 - RICE ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR ROBERT AND STACY MCKENZIE, 232 S. 7TH STREET CONCEPTUAL]
JUST ONE MOMENT TO PULL OUT AT ONCE.>> [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] CHAIR. MS. GIBSON.
THIS IS A PROJECT LOCATED AT 232 SOUTH SEVENTH STREET.
THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE DISTRICT.
[01:20:02]
THE REQUEST FOR REVIEW AT A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL THIS EVENING IS TO DEMOLISH AN EXISTING GARAGE AND CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IN ITS PLACE CONSISTENT WITH THE CURRENT LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE STANDARDS.ALL APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, AND ALL REQUIRED NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE.
THIS PRESENTATION, ALONG WITH THE STAFF REPORT, AND ALL APPLICATION MATERIALS WILL BE MADE PART OF THE RECORD FOR THE HEARING TONIGHT.
THIS IS A REQUEST THAT THE PROPERTY, THE BOARD REVIEWED AT OUR PRIOR MEETING IN OCTOBER.
THE APPLICANT AT THAT POINT HAD TAKEN A LOT OF THE DIRECTION THAT WAS PROVIDED TO THE PRIOR OWNER ABOUT THE POTENTIAL THE PRIOR OWNER HAD REQUESTED REMOVAL OF THE STRUCTURE AT ONE POINT IN TIME.
I BELIEVE IT WAS SEPTEMBER 2022.
THE BOARD DIRECTED NOT TO REMOVE IT, BUT TO RETAIN IT AND TO TRY TO WORK WITH THE EXISTING.
THE APPLICANT NEW OWNER REQUESTED THE BOARD TO LOOK AT THEIR DESIGN DOING JUST THAT IN OCTOBER.
AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THE BOARD DIRECTED RATHER THAN WORK WITH THAT STRUCTURE GIVEN ITS CONDITION AND SOME OF THE FACADE NATURE OF HOW THAT WOULD APPEAR, THAT IT WOULD BE THE PREFERENCE TO DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE AND TO CONSTRUCT A NEW STRUCTURE AT THE SITE.
THE APPLICANT IS HERE THIS EVENING, REALLY JUST ADD A VERY BROAD CONCEPTUAL LEVEL TO GO AHEAD AND GET FEEDBACK ABOUT THAT NEW STRUCTURE BEFORE THEY MOVE FURTHER WITH THIS PROCESS.
WITH THAT, AND GIVEN THE DIRECTION OF THE BOARD AT ITS MOST RECENT MEETING, STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE REQUEST TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE STANDARDS, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT GUIDELINES SUFFICIENT TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL ONLY, AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON?
>> KELLY, DO YOU KNOW IF THE GARAGE IS THERE NAIL, I KNOW THAT THE FIRST TIME WE LOOKED AT IT IS IN PRETTY DISMAL CONDITION.
BUT THEY FIX IT UP AND IT LOOKS GREAT NOW.
BUT HOW MUCH OF WHAT'S THERE NOW IS ACTUALLY HISTORIC GARAGE VERSUS NEW GARAGE.
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS IS HISTORIC 1960S GARAGE THAT IS THERE CURRENTLY.
>> I REALLY HATE THAT 1960S IS HISTORIC, BUT NO.
REALLY? [LAUGHTER] IT DOES SEEM RIGHT.
THANKS A LOT. MR. POZZETTA, DO YOU?
>> I THINK AND MAYBE I'LL LET THE ARCHITECT COME UP, BUT THE ONLY THING I'M STRUGGLING WITH RIGHT NOW IS THAT THERE AREN'T MANY EXAMPLES OF HISTORIC ACCESSORY BUILDINGS LEFT.
MOST OF THEM HAVE DETERIORATED AND DISAPPEARED.
THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW THAT STILL REMAINS.
I THINK WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS THE SCALE OF THE EXISTING ONE THAT MAYBE THERE WOULD BE A WAY TO DO TO ACHIEVE WHAT THE NEW OWNERS WANT TO DO, WHICH IS HAVE A SECOND STORY AND A BIGGER GARAGE, BUT STILL MAYBE MAINTAIN SOME OF THAT CHARACTER THAT YOU CAN SEE IN THAT PHOTO RIGHT THERE RATHER THAN THE DESIGN THAT'S BEING PROPOSED, WHICH IS TWO STORY ON THE STREET.
THAT MAYBE IT COULD STEP BACK OR SOMETHING TO MAINTAIN SOME OF THAT CHARACTER. I DON'T KNOW.
>> COULD I ASK THE APPLICANT TO COME UP, PLEASE?
>> THANK YOU. MY NAME IS MARK AIKINS.
QUESTION FIRST, I GUESS AN IMMEDIATE QUESTION OR WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE FEEDBACK ON?
>> IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND BECAUSE SOME OF THE MEMBERS WHO WERE HERE TONIGHT WERE NOT HERE AT THAT LAST MEETING.
COULD YOU JUST GO THROUGH WHAT THE ISSUES WERE THAT WERE EXPRESSED?
[01:25:01]
>> THE STRUCTURE THAT'S THERE, WHAT WE HAD, BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN REJECTED BACK IN 2022 WITH PREVIOUS OWNERS.
THEN WE HAD, OF COURSE, INTRODUCED THAT TO OUR CLIENTS THAT THIS WAS NOT A PATH TO PURSUE TEARING DOWN THE STRUCTURE.
THE IDEA WAS THAT THEY WANTED TO ACHIEVE THE BUILDING ITSELF, OTHER THAN SERVING MOSTLY AS A STORAGE UNIT, DOESN'T REALLY SERVE AS A GARAGE.
YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T REALLY GET A MODERN VEHICLE IN THERE.
THE IDEA WAS, WELL, IF WE CAN'T DO THAT, AND I DON'T HAVE THAT OTHER SET OF DRAWINGS WITH ME, BUT IF WE CAN'T DO THAT, IS THERE SOME WAY WE CAN USE THIS STRUCTURE, PRESERVE AS MUCH OF THE FACADE AS WE CAN AND CREATE A YARD.
I CAN'T REMEMBER MISS KOSACK, WERE YOU HERE FOR THAT?
>> WHAT WE DID IS WE THIS BLACK LINE, THE BLACK DOTTED LINE IS THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.
WE ESSENTIALLY TOOK THIS TWO THIRDS OF THE STRUCTURE OUT SO THAT WE WOULD MAINTAIN THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING.
WHEN WE EVEN LEFT A CORNER OF THE BUILDING SO THAT, FROM THIS DIRECTION, WE WOULD MAINTAIN THAT PRESENCE.
BUT THEN IT WOULD OPEN UP THE YARD SO THAT THEY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOVELY YARD.
THERE'S A WONDERFUL TREE, I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT HANGS OVER THE PROPERTY THAT'S ACTUALLY NEXT DOOR, BUT THIS BEAUTIFUL YARD THAT THEY BECAUSE OF WHERE THE BUILDING IS, THEY THEY DON'T REALLY GET MUCH.
THIS WAS THE PROPOSAL SO THESE WALLS HERE MAINTAINING THE EXISTING WALLS OF THE BUILDING AND THEN BLOWING OUT THESE WALLS AND OPENING UP THEN IT BECOMES A COVERED PORCH PATIO SPACE.
THAT WAS A A CON I THINK WE WERE GOING FOR CONCEPTUAL AT THAT TIME, BUT IN EITHER CASE, AS WE WERE GETTING FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, WITH OUR BUILDERS AND THE OWNERS THEMSELVES HAD HAD THE BUILDING ANALYZED AND DETERMINED THAT ESSENTIALLY TO DO ANYTHING TO THE BUILDING, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO TEAR IT ALL DOWN.
IT'S ED UP, AS THEY WOULD SAY, WITH TERMITE DAMAGE, AND REALLY THE EXISTING STRUCTURE IS NOT USABLE.
LOOKS NICE, IT'S A PRETTY PAINT JOB AND YOU CAN PUT YOUR FINGER THROUGH MUST OF IT.
NOW WE'RE LEFT STANDING WITH A BUILDING THAT'S NOT USABLE, HAVE TO BE REBUILT ANYWAY.
AT THE MEETING AT OUR LAST MEETING, IT WAS SUGGESTED AND OUR OWNER HAD COME AND SUGGESTED, WELL WE REALLY IT WAS OUR ORIGINAL PREFERENCE TO BRING THIS DOWN AND GET A USABLE GARAGE, WHICH ACTUALLY IS A GREAT CONCERN HERE BECAUSE ALONG THE STREET THERE'S REALLY NOT ANY PARKING FOR THEM.
THE BOARD PROVIDED SOME DIRECTION AT THAT POINT AND SAID, WELL WE DISCUSSED THIS A LITTLE BIT OF THE NATURE OF THE EXISTING BUILDING AND WHAT WE'RE DOING AND TRYING TO ACHIEVE AND THE BOARD PROVIDED SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS, THIS AND SAID, HEY THIS IS SOMETHING WE CONSIDER.
HERE WE ARE RETURNING WITH THIS AS A CONCEPT.
I'M SENSITIVE TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, JIM, IN TERMS OF THE SCALE AND THE CONCEPT.
I WOULD LIKE TO ONE THING THAT THE PHOTOS DON'T REALLY ARTICULATE WELL IS THAT THIS PROPERTY SITS RIGHT UP BACK AGAINST EIGHTH STREET.
IT'S GOING TO BE A TREMENDOUS VALUE TO THEM AND I REALLY I'LL BE HONEST, I THINK THAT EVEN THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND JUST THAT TRANSITION FROM THE COMMERCIAL OF EIGHTH STREET INTO THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT TO HAVE THIS BIT OF A MASS THERE.
NOW, I THINK I THINK AS WE GOT FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, LOWER ROOF ELEMENTS OR OTHER PARTS OF THIS COULD BE INTRODUCED.
THE CURRENT PLAN DOES HAVE THIS STRUCTURE BEING LOCATED THE FACADE, WHERE THE EXISTING ONE IS.
WE'RE SENSITIVE TO MOVING THAT BACK A LITTLE BIT IF WE NEED,
[01:30:03]
BUT NOT TOO FAR BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, THAT TREE, IF YOU'LL GO TO THE PLAN AGAIN, KELLY, THEY WANT TO PRESERVE THIS WHAT LITTLE YARD THEY DO HAVE.THAT TREE IS REALLY A BEAUTIFUL CREATURE AND ALL OF THOSE ELEMENTS ARE GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT SITE.
THIS BEING RAISED UP, GIVING THEM MORE PRIVACY FROM THE LOUD BUSY EIGHTH STREET EIGHT STREET RIGHT HERE.
THERE'S A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY HERE, WHICH HAS A ZERO LOT LINE, THEY CAN COME IN THE FUTURE WITH A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AND COMMERCIAL BUILDING AND BUILD THAT RIGHT UP TO THEIR PROPERTY LINE.
THIS IS GIVING THEM SOME HEDGE.
>> ANY QUESTIONS? DO WE HAVE THIS?
>> DO WE HAVE IN THIS SET OF DRAWINGS THAT YOU SUBMITTED TODAY? I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE FOR WHAT THE SIZE OF THE NEW BUILDING IS?
>> YES. DID YOU SEE THE WHOLE, I DID A HAND SKETCH ON ON THIS PLAN WISE.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET A FEEL.
>> DO YOU HAVE THREE HAND SKETCH, KELLY?
>> YEAH. I THINK I'M LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW.
>> IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE SAME SIZE FOOTPRINT WISE, AND YOU JUST SHIFTED IT TO THE EAST.
>> A LITTLE BIT. AGAIN, KEEPING IN MIND THAT THEY HAVE A ZERO LOT LINE WITH A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY ON EIGHTH STREET, WHICH IS ONLY GETTING MORE INTENSE AND IT'S TO GO STRAIGHT.
>> FROM THERE, I CAN GET A BETTER SENSE OF THAT IT'S NOT REALLY HUGE.
IT'S RELATIVELY MODEST AND SMALL.
>> I TRIED TO INTRODUCE I WAS SENSING THAT WHILE WE'RE EVEN SKETCHING THIS OUT, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF SOME OF THIS APPEARS ON THE OTHER DRAWINGS, AND IT MIGHT NOT.
BUT CONCEPTUALLY, I WAS WRESTLING WITH WE NEED TO GET THIS WE NEED TO INTRODUCE SOME MORE HUMAN SCALE TO IT, I DON'T WANT THIS JUST TO BE A PASS.
>> I THINK BASED ON THAT SKETCH, I'M A LITTLE MORE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT IT.
BUT STILL, WHEN LOOKING AT IT FROM CEDAR STREET, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BREAK DOWN THAT TWO STORY FACADE, GIVE IT A LITTLE LITTLE MORE OF THE SCALE OF WHAT'S THERE NOW.
>> I COULD EVEN SEE I COULD EVEN SEE STEPPING THIS BACK AND PROVIDING A LITTLE COVERED PORCH UNDERNEATH LIKE SEES SHIFTING THAT WHOLE MASS.
THEN WE KIND OF GET KILLED TWO BIRDS WITH 1 STONE WITH THEIR BACK YARD.
>> THEN WE DON'T HAVE THE TWO STORY RIGHT IN OUR FACE RIGHT THERE.
>> I THINK THAT STILL GIVES THEM ALL THE THINGS YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT THEY'RE SEARCHING FOR HERE, AND IT STILL HELPS US MAINTAIN THAT CEDAR STREET SCALE.
OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A DESIGN CHALLENGE, BUT I THINK YOU COULD POTENTIALLY COME UP WITH SOMETHING REALLY SPECIAL FOR RIGHT THERE.
>> I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST THAT OR REITERATE THAT ISSUE WITH THEM BEING AGAINST THAT COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
THIS ACTUALLY PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE A GATEWAY TO THAT.
IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, THEY'RE RIGHT THERE, AND IT CHANGES IN A SPLIT.
THIS AND HAVING THIS GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF THE GATEWAY TO THAT.
>> YOU'RE ABLE TO TUCK THE TWO STORIES UNDERNEATH THE LOWEST LIMBS OF THAT TREE?
>> YES, MA'AM. THEY DON'T QUITE COME OVER AS FAR THE HIGHER PARTS OF THE.
>> BECAUSE THEY CAME DOWN IN A HURRICANE ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO, SO TREE WAS COMING.
>> WE'LL LOOK AND MAKE SURE WE WON'T COME.
YOU ARE OKAY WITH MOVING THAT BACK SOME?
>> AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT MOVING THE BUILDING.
[OVERLAPPING] THE WHOLE BUILDING BACK.
I YOU KNOW, EVEN IF WE JUST SHIFTED FOUR FEET BACK, WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO IS PROVIDE AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE UPPER FLOOR, NOT THE WHOLE STRUCTURE.
>> WHAT WE DO, INSTEAD OF HAVING THIS TALL WALL HERE, WE WOULD TAKE THAT UPPER FLOOR AND SHIFT IT BACK AND HAVE A LOWER ROOF LINE OR PERHAPS A DIFFERENT SHED ROOF LINE HERE, AND THIS WHOLE STRUCTURE JUST ON THE TOP AND THE LOWER PARKING.
[01:35:05]
WE WOULD NOT BE PUSHING A LOWER PARKING FURTHER BACK INTO THE YARD.EVEN IF WE ONLY CAME FOUR FEET, I THINK FOUR FEET WOULD BE THE MINIMUM TO ACHIEVE WHAT WE WANT.
>> SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A FAKE FEET.
>> YOU DON'T WANT TO GO TWO FEET AND IT LOOKS FAKE. SO FOUR FEET.
>> WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE ON THE BACK?
>> WE'LL DESIGN SOMETHING VERY BEAUTIFUL FOR YOU.
WHAT I WAS THINKING THOUGH, ACTUALLY, IN THAT RESPECT WAS THAT WE'RE DEVELOPING AN IDEA RIGHT NOW, SO UNDERSTANDING THERE'S ROOM TO MOVE.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PIN YOU GUYS DOWN ON ANY OF THIS, BUT THIS WOULD ALLOW YOU TO PERHAPS HAVE A LITTLE COVERED PORCH BACK THERE.
WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING COVER FOR YOU.
>> AT THE RISK OF GETTING INTO DESIGN, IF I COULD JUST SUMMARIZE THIS AND TELL ME IF I'VE GOT IT WRONG.
WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING IS THAT THAT FACADE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO DWARF THE HOUSE, AND ALSO THOSE OTHERS ON THE STREET THAT ARE OF SIMILAR NATURE.
WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING IS TO CHANGE YOUR EYEBALLS A LITTLE BIT BY MOVING THAT TOP LEVEL BACK A LITTLE AND BREAK THAT SOLID STRUCTURE WALL UP A BIT SO THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE CONSISTENCY WITH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, CONSISTENCY WITH THE HOUSE AND THE ERA WHILE THE GARAGE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT WITH THE ERA OF THE HOUSE, IT WOULD STILL LOOK MORE AT PLACE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS I THINK WHAT WE'RE SAYING, IS THAT TRUE?
>> I THINK YOU GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT.
>> IT CAN ALMOST BE EVOCATIVE OF BUILDING UP AND BACK AS IF PERHAPS WAS THE ORIGINAL CARRIAGE HOUSE WAS HERE, AND THEN YOU PUT ANOTHER MASS ON TOP OF IT.
>> WERE YOU HERE TONIGHT CONCEPTUAL?
>> CONCEPTUAL TO GET FEEDBACK.
>> I DO HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION ON ONE OF THESE PLANS HERE ON SHEET B 2.0.
ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE HOUSE, YOU HAVE THREE ARROWS WHERE THERE'S A TRIPTYCH OF WINDOWS, AND IT SAYS WINDOW REMOVAL.
>> FORGIVE ME. INCLUDED IN THE PREVIOUS ITERATION WAS THERE'S AN ODD LITTLE ADDITION THAT WAS MADE TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT WAS NOT ORIGINAL.
IT WAS PROBABLY DONE IN THE '60S, PROBABLY DONE WHEN THIS WAS DONE.
WE HAVE A PHOTO OF THAT PART OF THE HOUSE?
>> YOU CAN SEE IT IN THAT [INAUDIBLE].
>> YOU'RE RIGHT. THE IDEA IS THAT WE DID REPLACE THESE WINDOWS, I BELIEVE WE DID.
THERE WERE JALOUSIE WINDOWS OR ALUMINUM PLANTS HERE, BUT IT CREATES A VERY NARROW HALLWAY RIGHT THERE.
WE ESSENTIALLY WANT TO PICK UP THAT AND JUST ADD THAT SPACE HERE.
>> JUST THAT I'M CLEAR, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE SINE OF IT, WERE THOSE RESTORED ORIGINAL WINDOWS DURING THIS PREVIOUS RESTORATION OR THOSE NEW WINDOWS TO LOOK LIKE THE OLD WINDOWS?
>> THOSE ARE NEW WINDOWS THAT WERE PUT IN TWO YEARS AGO.
>> SO JUST THAT WE'RE IN OUR PURVIEW THAT THAT'S OKAY, THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO SAY NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
>> AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED FOR THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL HERE, WE CAN SORT OF DISREGARD THAT PART OF THIS BECAUSE I HAVEN'T REALLY PROVIDED YOU ANY OTHER INFORMATION AND FOCUS ON THIS ADU.
>> WE CAN REALLY ONLY SEE TWO FACADES OF THE ADU.
I'D WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON ON THOSE OTHER FACADES TOO.
>> SURE. YOU CAN SEE THOSE HERE.
>> ARE YOU STILL GOING TO HAVE THE LITTLE PICKET FENCE ON THE SIDE?
>> WE'LL HAVE SOME PICKET FENCE THERE.
AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT SURE WHERE.
I THINK IT WILL PROBABLY WRAP AROUND THAT [OVERLAPPING].
>> I WAS HERE FOR THE LAST MEETING, AND I THINK YOU'VE DONE A WONDERFUL JOB.
>> THAT BOTTOM PART IN THE FRONT LOOKS JUST LIKE THE OLD GARAGE.
[01:40:03]
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? YES, SIR.
>> CAN YOU OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST?
>> OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING [OVERLAPPING]
>> FOR NOW NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORDS.
>> ROBERT ZAWISTOWSKI, 202 ESTRADA STREET, FERNANDINA BEACH.
THIS IS MORE OF JUST A SUGGESTION AND NOT A CRITICISM OF ANYTHING.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF THAT STEPPING OF THE BUILDING BACK TO BREAK IT UP.
CAN YOU BRING UP THAT PICTURE THAT SHOWS THE DRAWING, NOT THE PICTURE SO MUCH, THE DRAWING THAT SHOWS THE TALL, NOT THAT ONE.
THE OTHER ONE FURTHER BACK. THAT'LL WORK.
JUST SOMETHING THAT I WOULD CONSIDER IN A BUILDING LIKE THIS WHERE THIS IS QUITE TALL, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU BREAK UP THE WALL WITH THIS BUILDING THAT'S A RELATIVELY LOW PROFILE.
ONE THING YOU CAN DO THAT WE ACTUALLY DID WAS WHEN WE BUILD WE MADE THIS KNEE WALL IN HERE NOT A FULL EIGHT FEET.
OF COURSE, I'M PRETTY SHORT ANYWAYS, [LAUGHTER] BUT BY BRINGING THAT FROM EIGHT FEET DOWN TO SIX AND HAVING JUST A KNEE WALL THERE AND THEN COME UP, YOU CAN WALK LITERALLY UP TO THE WALL AND MIGHT HIT THE CEILING, AND YOU STILL GAIN ALL SQUARE FOOTAGE.
HELPS LOWER THE PROFILE OF THE BUILDING WHICH YOU AS OWNERS MAY WANT TO CONSIDER.
THERE'S PLENTY OF THOSE BUILDINGS LIKE THAT AROUND FERNANDINA BEACH THAT YOU CAN CHECK AND SEE IF YOU LIKE IT.
WOULD HELP BRING THAT PROFILE DOWN, I THINK WOULD MAKE THE HOUSE LOOK BETTER.
>> THANK YOU. I'M SURE THAT THE APPLICANT WE'LL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
>> ROB PSULKOWSKI, 710 BEECH STREET.
PRESIDENT OF BUILT TO LAST CONSTRUCTION.
SINCE WE REDID THE HOUSE, I WANTED TO ANSWER JIM'S QUESTION RIGHT OFF THE GATE.
I'D SAY ABOUT 40% IS ORIGINAL OF THAT GARAGE.
WE REFRAMED THE WHOLE BACK OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE AS I SAID TO THE LAST GROUP THAT WAS HERE LAST MONTH, ORIGINALLY WHEN WE RAN INTO THE HOUSE, THERE WAS A FOUR FOOT BUMP OUT TO THE REAR WALL OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SOMEBODY'S CAR DIDN'T FIT INTO THE GARAGE, SO THEY BUMPED IT OUT.
THE THREE WINDOWS ON THE GARAGE ARE ALL NEW BECAUSE THERE WAS A CHICKEN WIRE SCREEN CONFIGURATION OF THE EXISTING WINDOWS.
I'D SAY ABOUT HALF THE SIDING WAS REPLACED.
THE FRONT GARAGE, THE GARAGE DOOR HAD TO BE REFRAMED TO MEET CODE SO THAT THE HURRICANE STRENGTH GARAGE DOOR COULD GO IN THERE.
I'D SAY 40%, AND OUT OF THAT 40%, PROBABLY 20% IS USABLE BECAUSE WE FOUND OUT THAT APPARENTLY WHEN THE LAST PEOPLE SOLD THE HOUSE, NADERS HAD BEEN KIND ENOUGH TO PUT RED AND YELLOW STICKERS ON EVERYTHING THAT WAS DAMAGED IN THE GARAGE.
WHEN THE MCKENZIES WALKED INTO THE HOUSE, THERE WERE NO STICKERS IN THE GARAGE.
THE NADERS LADY THEN SAID THAT, OH, YEAH, IT WAS LOADED WITH STICKERS.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF USABLE LUMBER IN THAT BUILDING AND THE GARAGE ROOF IS HORRIBLE, TOO. THERE YOU GO.
>> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
>> I'M ENCOURAGED JUST BY THINKING ABOUT OPTIONS ON THAT, HOW IT COULD BE.
I'M CONFIDENT IT MARKS UP TO THE CHALLENGE OF TACKLING IT.
I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE REST OF THE BOARD THINKS OF, DO WE APPROVE IT AS CONCEPTUAL TONIGHT OR DO WE CONTINUE IT TO FUTURE MEETING AND REVIEW IT FOR CONCEPTUAL WHEN WE GET TO SEE WHAT KIND OF REVISION OR REVISED VERSION COMES TO US?
>> WE CAN APPROVE CONCEPTUALLY WITH THESE SUGGESTIONS, AND THEN IT'S UP TO THEM ROLLING THE DICE IF THEY FOLLOW THEM OR NOT TO BRING IT BACK FOR FINAL.
BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THIS AND GETTING THE RIGHT VIBE FOR IT.
ONE THING FOR CLARITY, FOR ANYBODY THAT'S BEEN FOLLOWING OUR CIRCUS FOR HOWEVER MANY YEARS, WE'VE SEEN THIS BUILDING SO MANY TIMES.
THE FIRST TIME IT CAME UP AND WE HAD THE BIG BRUJA ABOUT THE GARAGE, SO MUCH OF IT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WAS BECAUSE IT'S NON-CONFORMING AND THEY WANTED TO TAKE OFF AN ADDITION AND IF THEY DID SO MUCH, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO BRING THE WHOLE BUILDING UP TO CODE.
THERE WERE SOME SETBACK QUESTIONS AND IT JUST WASN'T GOING TO WORK.
[01:45:07]
I THINK THAT'S HOW WE ENDED UP WITH DOING THE PARTIAL REPLACEMENT THAT ROB DID ON THE BUILDING.WE MAINTAINED THIS LITTLE STORY BOOK FACADE, WHICH I THINK IS ADORABLE.
IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT WE'RE GOING, EVEN JUST LOOKING AT THE TWO STORY FLAT FRONT THAT YOU'VE DRAWN, YOU'VE GOT SOME ELEMENTS IN THERE THAT REALLY SPEAK TO THE CHARM OF IT.
I THINK FOR ME, MY CONCERN THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS TOO IS JUST THE MASSING OF IT AND THE HEIGHT OF IT, IT MAKES THE BUILDING LOOK SUBSERVIENT EVEN THOUGH THE BUILDING AMBLES, YOU'VE GOT LIKE A CRAFTSMAN AMBLING RANCH, AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS SKINNY SHOE BOX.
>> I THINK WE CAN ADD ELEMENTS ON TO THIS ADDRESS.
>> DOES ANYONE FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH A MOTION THAT INCLUDES THE CONDITIONS FOR A CONCEPTUAL AT THIS TIME, OR WOULD YOU PREFER MORE INFORMATION BEFORE WE GRANT THAT?
>> I'D LIKE US TO MAKE A MOTION.
YOU MISSED THE BIG BRUJA LAST MONTH.
>> OH, NO. I'VE WATCHED THE MEETING THREE TIMES.
I WATCHED THE MEETING WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING AND I WAS SPITTING TAX.
>> I WASN'T EVEN ON THE BOARD, AND I WAS SPITTING TAX OUT THERE.
>> YOU WANT TO MAKE A MOTION AND THEN THAT WAY YOU CAN DEFINE WHAT [INAUDIBLE]?
>> YOU'RE ALWAYS GOOD WITH THE LITTLE CONDITIONS ON I.
WHAT ARE OUR CONDITIONS? THIS IS A CONCEPTUAL, RIGHT?
>> I MOVED TO APPROVE HDC CASE 2024-0028, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, THAT THE APPLICANT BRINGS BACK A SHIFTED MASSING OF THE TWO STORY TO REFLECT SET BACK OF THE SECOND STORY.
>> REMEMBER WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
>> I'D LIKE TO SEE ALL FOUR ADDITIONS.
>> WE WANTED TO SEE THE OTHER SIDES.
>> FULL PLANS WITH ALL FOUR ELEVATIONS AND DO THE WHOLE SHEBANG, DO A CONTEXTUAL.
I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THAT HDC CASE 2024-0028, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> MOTION BY KOSACK, SECOND BY GASS.
>> YES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
[LAUGHTER] WE HAVE HEARD THE PRESENTATION FROM THE CITY.
NOW NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS BOARD BUSINESS.
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS ELECTION OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR.>> I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE ARLENE AS OUR CHAIRPERSON.
>> I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE JIM POZZETTA AS VICE.
>> WELL, THAT'S OKAY. IS THAT ALL WE NEED TO DO?
>> YOU COULD DO A VOICE VOTE RATHER THAN A ROLL CALL ALL IN FAVOR.
>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION.
>> I'M GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN THIS CHEAT SHEET.
>> BETTER HAVE IT RIGHT BY NEXT MONTH.
>> I DON'T THINK SO. I'M OLD NOW.
[7. STAFF REPORT]
>> I HAVE QUITE A FEW ITEMS. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL IN THE PRIOR MONTH?
>> SO MANY ROOVES, AGAIN, IS IT ALL INSURANCE BASED?
[01:50:02]
>> LAND SALES ARE FACTORING INTO THAT AS WELL.
>> THERE MUST BE A DOCUMENTATION SOMEWHERE THAT SHOWS, AND I'M JUST NOT SEEING IT OR FOUND IT, WHAT DECISIONS DO GO TO STAFF.
>> THERE'S A MATRIX. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD WAS SOMETIMES PORCH REPLACEMENTS COME TO THE BOARD, SOMETIMES THEY GO TO STAFF.
>> LET'S PULL UP THE MATRIX. [OVERLAPPING]
>> USUALLY IF IT'S A REPAIR IN KIND, THAT'S STAFF APPROVAL.
IF IT'S A CHANGE TO THE ELEVATION OR THE ROOF LINE OR A MAJOR CHANGE, [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S BOARD.
>> DEPENDS ON THE EXTENT OF THE CHANGE, LIKE IF THEY'RE CHANGING THE STEPS.
>> IF THEY'RE CHANGING THE FOOTPRINT, IF THEY'RE CHANGING THE ROOF LINE.
IT DEPENDS ON THE FACADE, THE LOCATION OF IT, I BELIEVE.
>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL AWARE OF WHAT THAT IS, WHERE TO FIND IT, AND KNOW HOW TO SUPPORT IT. THAT'S ALL.
>> ALMOST EVERYTHING RELATED TO OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WE'RE SO FORTUNATE, IT'S ALL CONTAINED IN CHAPTER 8.
ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT YOU'LL FIND RELATED TO OUR DISTRICTS ARE FOUND THERE.
THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS WITH ENCROACHMENTS, MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT.
THOSE TYPES OF DETAILS THAT YOU WILL FIND IN OTHER AREAS OF OUR CODE, YOU NEED TO RELY ON, PARKING STANDARDS ARE ANOTHER ONE.
BUT FOR THE MOST PART, CHAPTER 8 IS WHERE YOU'LL FIND GUIDANCE.
WE DO HAVE A VERY CLEAR MATRIX PROVIDED THERE THAT DEFINES THE STAFF AND BOARD APPROVAL ALLOWANCES.
OF COURSE, IF THERE IS ANYTHING WHERE I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE, IT IS UNCERTAIN, IT SEEMS NEW AND DIFFERENT, IT'S GOING TO THE BOARD BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO TOUCH THAT.
EVEN IF THERE IS SOME LATITUDE PROVIDED TO STAFF AT THAT POINT, I AM GOING TO DEFER TO THE BOARD WHERE IT'S NEW OR SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ENOUGH THAT I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE MOVING FORWARD.
THAT IS ALSO CONTAINED IN CHAPTER 8, THAT DISCRETION.
IT ALSO BREAKS IT BASED ON CONTRIBUTING AND NONCONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE STATUS, SO YOU MAY SEE SOME ADDITIONAL STAFF ALLOWANCES ON NONCONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
>> IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT AN ATM ON THEIR PROPERTY, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME TO US.
>> HOW ARE WE GOING TO ARGUE AGAINST THAT?
>> THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT GOING.
>> ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THE STAFF APPROVALS? IF NOT, WE'LL MOVE ONTO THE OLD TOWN ROAD CONDITION SURVEY.
I THINK THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE HERE WHO WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW I MANAGED TO NOT HAVE OUR AGENDA PULLED UP. HERE WE GO.
>> BEFORE WE GET TO THAT THOUGH, ACTUALLY, I WANTED TO DISCUSS COORDINATION WITH OUR NEW BOARD.
WE SHOULD HOPEFULLY HAVE A FULL BOARD IN PLACE BY JANUARY.
IT MAY BE THAT WE HAVE A FULL BOARD IN PLACE BY OUR MEETING IN DECEMBER.
WE HAVE A PRETTY LIGHT AGENDA IN DECEMBER AT THIS TIME, LARGELY BECAUSE OF ALL OF YOUR EXCELLENT WORK AND THE PRIOR BOARD'S EXCELLENT WORK WITH MOVING THINGS FORWARD.
I WAS WONDERING IF WE MIGHT WANT TO REALLY DIVE INTO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES IN DECEMBER, OR IF WE WANT TO WAIT UNTIL JANUARY.
>> WHAT'S THE DATE OF THE DECEMBER MEETING?
WE ALREADY HAVE A SINGLE ITEM ON THE AGENDA, CURRENTLY.
>> TWO ITEMS, AND THEN SPEND THE REST OF THE MEETING ON THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO EVERYBODY HERE?
>> OR BUMP THE TWO TO JANUARY?
>> COME ON. I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT HOUSE FOR FIVE YEARS.
>> WHO? WHAT? HOW COME YOU KNOW? [LAUGHTER]
>> ANY ISSUES WITH THAT APPROACH? WE DO IT THAT WAY. DECEMBER 19TH, BE PREPARED TO DISCUSS. [OVERLAPPING]
>> DOES EVERYBODY HAVE A COPY OF THE UPDATED DESIGN GUIDELINES?
>> IT'S A LONG BOOK LIKE THIS.
>> THE RED PACKET THAT WE GOT.
[01:55:02]
>> [OVERLAPPING] IT'S COMBINED.
>> WE'RE UPTOWN ON THIS ONE, SO I'LL MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE.
>> YOU NEED ONE ALSO? YES. WE MAY HAVE THEM PRINTED AND AVAILABLE HERE FOR YOU TO LOOK.
>> YES. MORGAN LEARNED HOW TO DO COMBINING.
>> NOW WE'LL GO TO OLD TOWN SURVEY.
AS OF ABOUT 3:30 THIS AFTERNOON, THAT WAS MY LAST CHECK, WE HAD 39 SURVEY ENTRIES.
>> WE HAVE POSTED SIGNS AT FIVE LOCATIONS IN OLD TOWN WITH THE WEBSITE AND THE QR CODE FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SCAN THE FLYER AND ACCESS IT.
WE HAVE SENT BY MAIL THE FLYER TO BOTH PHYSICAL ADDRESS IN OLD TOWN AND THE PROPERTY OWNER MAILING ADDRESS FOR EVERY PROPERTY OWNER IN OLD TOWN.
THAT WENT OUT ON MONDAY OF THIS WEEK, SO PEOPLE SHOULD BE RECEIVING THEM, DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK.
I DO EXPECT THAT WE WILL GET MORE SURVEY RESPONSES.
WE'VE HAD SOME PEOPLE PICK UP PRINTED SURVEYS.
WE'VE DONE THE DATA ENTRY ON THOSE ALREADY.
REQUESTS FOR MAILED SURVEYS TO THEM HAVE BEEN SENT OUT AS WELL, AND SO WE'LL WAIT TO RECEIVE THOSE BACK.
IF THERE'S ANYONE WITHIN THE OLD TOWN NEIGHBORHOOD THAT YOU KNOW OF THAT CAN'T OTHERWISE ACCESS THE SURVEY OR HAVE IT, I'M HAPPY TO BRING IT TO THEM.
I'M HAPPY TO GO AND ENTER THE SURVEY INFORMATION WITH THEM.
I JUST NEED TO KNOW WHERE THEY ARE SO THAT I CAN DO THAT.
>> KELLY, HOW MANY PROPERTIES ARE THERE IN OLD TOWN?
>> I GUESS IT WOULD BE OWNERS.
>> THERE ARE 100 INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS SENT OUT WITH A LOCAL ADDRESS.
>> IS IT HOUSEHOLDS? [NOISE] EXCUSE ME.
IS IT HOUSEHOLDS OR PROPERTY OWNERS?
>> WE ASKED IF WE CAN MAKE IT BY HOUSEHOLD.
>> [NOISE] YOU CAN LIST YOUR HOUSE AS VACANT.
I'M NOT GOING TO SAY YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN THE SURVEY, I'D RATHER YOU PARTICIPATE.
>> BUT IF YOU OWN PROPERTY THERE, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE A HOUSE AND LIVE THERE, EVER.
>> YOU SHOULD STILL PARTICIPATE.
[NOISE] IF YOU OWN PROPERTY THERE AND YOU HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT ROADWAY CONDITIONS, PLEASE TAKE THE SURVEY.
>> ALL OF US HAVE BEEN ON COPY FOR SEVERAL EMAILS FROM FOLKS LIVING IN OLD TOWN.
I KNOW THAT SOME FOLKS ARE HERE, SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK UP AND SAY A PIECE, BUT THERE'S A COMMON THREAD IN THE ONES THAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR, COUPLE OF THEM.
ONE IS EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY SOMETHING, WHETHER YOU LIVE THERE FULL TIME OR NOT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST SAID WAS HAPPENING.
>> THEN THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT, EXPRESSED MORE THAN ONCE, WHETHER THE OPTIONS THAT WERE GIVEN IN THE SURVEY WERE THE ONLY OPTIONS OR WHETHER THERE WAS ANYBODY THAT'S TASKED WITH LOOKING AT ANY OTHER OPTION.
>> FIRST, I WILL SAY THAT THERE'S NO PRESET DETERMINATION WITH ANY OF THIS.
THERE'S NO ONE ON CITY STAFF THAT HAS A SPECIFIC MATERIAL OR IDEA THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROMOTE IN ANY WAY.
WE REALLY DO WANT TO GET FEEDBACK FROM THE CITIZENS, FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERS, FROM THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE AFFECTED BY THE ROADWAY CONDITIONS SO THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IS MOST PALATABLE WITHIN THAT AREA AND LOOK AT OPTIONS.
THE SURVEY IS VERY BRIEF, IT'S INTENTIONALLY BRIEF.
RATHER THAN GO THROUGH A VARIETY OF MATERIALS, WE DID KEEP IT SPECIFIC TO THE THREE.
WE ALSO KEPT THE NUMBER OF CONCERNS LISTED, VERY BRIEF, BECAUSE WE LARGELY HEAR THE SAME THREE OVER, AND A LOT OF THOSE TOPIC AREAS COULD ENCOMPASS A NUMBER OF CONCERNS.
WE ALSO ALLOWED ROOM TO PUT MORE INFORMATION IN THERE THAT WASN'T OTHERWISE LISTED.
BUT IN ADDITION TO WHAT IS LISTED THERE, THERE IS CERTAINLY OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS, TO LOOK AT OTHER METHODS, TO DETERMINE IF THERE ARE OTHER SOLUTIONS THAT SUPPORT WHICHEVER THE COMMUNITY MOST DESIRES.
THERE'S NOTHING SET BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION WHO,
[02:00:04]
JUST AT THIS POINT, WANT TO HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY.>> WHICH BRINGS ME TO, I THINK WE DO HAVE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU FILL OUT A FORM BEFORE YOU LEAVE. COME ON DOWN.
>> CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING? I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE THINGS I DID HEAR A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM IS THERE IS A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON WHAT YOUR PROPERTY OWNERSHIP IS AND HOW LONG YOU'VE LIVED THERE.
I INCORPORATED THAT AS AN ANALYTICS POINT AND ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT THE ROADWAY CONDITIONS OR THEIR PREFERRED MATERIAL TYPE BACK TO THOSE.
IT'S A NICE WAY TO REALLY ANALYZE THE DATA AND WITHOUT ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS, I DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT IT IN THAT WAY.
I KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT ALL OF THAT INFORMATION BEING REQUESTED, BUT THAT WAS THE PURPOSE BEHIND IT.
>> I THINK YOUR POINT IS IT WASN'T TO SAY IF YOU DIDN'T LIVE THERE LONG ENOUGH, I'M NOT GO TO [INAUDIBLE]
JUST SO THAT WE COULD REALLY UNDERSTAND, I'VE BEEN LIVING WITH THIS FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS, AND I FEEL VERY STRONGLY.
HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE THERE? THAT'S COOL ENOUGH. DR. HARRISON.
MICHAEL HARRISON, 800 SOMERUELOS STREET.
LIKE MS. GASS, I THINK I'VE BEEN LIVING WITH THIS SITUATION FOR MAYBE 30 YEARS, CERTAINLY 25.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT THE SURVEY ADDRESSED A WIDER SET OF ISSUES RELATED TO THE ROADS IN OLD TOWN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SIMPLY STREETS, THEY ARE ALSO DRAINS.
IF WE SURFACE THE STREETS WITH ANYTHING THAT ABSORBS ANY LESS WATER THAN WE HAVE AT THE MOMENT, WE'RE INCREASING THE FLOODING.
NOW IN OLD TOWN, WE HAVE TWO OR THREE STREETS THAT ARE BLACKTOPPED.
RUMOR HAS IT THAT THEY WERE PUT IN THERE SO THAT POGY PLANT TRUCKS.
WHAT DROPPED OFF THEM COULD BE HOSED OFF AND THE STREETS COULD BE CLEANED.
WE DON'T HAVE A POGY PLANT ANYMORE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE EXISTING ASPHALTED AREAS CONVERTED SO OLD TOWN STREETS ARE ALL OF THE SAME SURFACE.
I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOME CRUSHED LIME ROCK AS WELL UNDER SOME OF THE SO-CALLED SHELL STREETS AT THE MOMENT.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO DO A FULL ENGINEERING STUDY OF THE PERCOLATION RATE OF THOSE STREETS AND TO MAXIMIZE IT SO THAT THE WATER THAT FALLS GETS ABSORBED WHERE IT LANDS AND DOES NOT CARRY ACROSS INTO OTHER PROPERTIES.
I LIKE THE LOOK OF THE SHELL STREETS, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT LOOK PRESERVED.
IF I CAN ADD TWO OTHER POINTS HERE?
>> ONE OF THEM IS THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER HOW THE STREETS ARE USED AT THE MOMENT.
WE HAVE 52 STOP SIGNS IN OLD TOWN, AND IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO GET THAT REMOVED.
MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT TRAFFIC PATTERNS TO ESTABLISH CERTAIN MAJOR THOROUGHFARES WHICH DON'T HAVE STOP SIGNS ON THEM AND MINOR THOROUGHFARES THAT PERHAPS HAVE A YIELD SIGN OR A CAUTION SIGN.
POINT OF FACT, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU PUT UP THERE, NOBODY TAKES ANY NOTICE OF THEM.
THE SECOND THING IS THAT PERHAPS WE COULD CONSIDER PROVIDING VEHICLE TRAFFIC LANES WITHIN THE STREET, SO PERHAPS [NOISE] TWO STRIPS DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET SO THAT VEHICLES CAN TRAVEL ON THOSE.
WE'RE TALKING MAYBE NOT USING THE FULL 20-FOOT WIDTH, AND THE SIDES OFF TO THAT WOULD BE STRONG ENOUGH TO ALLOW VEHICLES TO PASS IF THEY WERE COMING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS,
[02:05:02]
OR INDEED TO MAKE SOME OF THE STREETS ONE-WAY STREETS.JUST A FEW IDEAS THERE, BUT THANK YOU, KELLY, FOR LOOKING AT THIS AND THANK YOU FOR LAUNCHING THE SURVEY.
>> ROBERT SWOTINSKY, 202 OF STRATA STREET, OLD TOWN, FERNANDINA.
I'M THE GUY THAT SENT OUT THAT MANY OF YOU RECEIVED RATHER LENGTHY LETTER, AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER, I HAD A CALL ACTUALLY THAT EVENING FROM OUTGOING COMMISSIONER CHIP ROSS.
HE GAVE ME SOME SAGE ADVICE, AND IT WAS GOOD.
I'LL MAKE IT SHORTER IN THE FUTURE.
FOR THOSE OF YOU I DIDN'T HAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS, I APOLOGIZE.
I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO FORWARD THAT TO YOU.
BUT I DID BRING UP SOME CONCERNS THAT I HAD, AND KELLY, I KNOW YOU GOT A COPY OF IT.
I WASN'T TOO HAPPY WITH THAT SURVEY AT ALL.
I'LL GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF REASONS WHY.
THIRTEEN QUESTIONS, AND I APPRECIATE THE BREVITY.
FIRST ONE WAS YOUR NAME, LAST ONE IS YOUR EMAIL.
THAT BRINGS US DOWN TO 11 QUESTIONS.
FOUR OF THOSE QUESTIONS WERE ALL ABOUT RESIDENCY.
HOW MANY MONTHS DO YOU SPEND HERE? DO YOU OWN PROPERTY AND ALL THAT.
I HAVE A PROBLEM, BINA, AND I'LL USE MYSELF AS AN EXAMPLE.
I'M A FULL TIME FLORIDA RESIDENT.
MY VEHICLES ARE REGISTERED HERE.
MY DRIVER'S LICENSE, EVERYTHING IS HERE IN FLORIDA.
I DO SPEND FOUR MONTHS OF THE YEAR OUT OF STATE UP IN MAINE.
I GUESS, BY THE QUESTIONS IN THAT SURVEY, I'M A PART TIME RESIDENT, ONLY EIGHT MONTHS OF 12.
MY QUESTION IS, WHEN YOU FOLKS ARE EVALUATING THOSE SURVEYS, DOES MY OPINION MATTER LESS THAN SOMEONE WHO'S ACTUALLY LIVING HERE A FULL 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR? HOW DOES THAT> I DON'T SEE THE RELEVANCE OF THIS, AND I'M HOPING THAT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT PEOPLE WHO ONLY LIVE HERE PART TIME, WHATEVER THE NUMBER OF MONTHS THEY LIVE HERE, THEY ARE ALL PROPERTY TAX PAYERS, AND I DON'T THINK WE GET A DISCOUNT BECAUSE WE'RE HERE A FEW LESS MONTHS, THAT ALL THOSE OPINIONS ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT AND NEED TO BE WEIGHED.
NOW, I KNOW THAT THERE WAS SOME OF MY NEIGHBORS THAT WERE IN HERE MAKING A CASE.
I WAS UNFORTUNATELY UNABLE TO MAKE THAT MEETING, BUT I DO KNOW THAT, JUST IN THIS PAST WEEK, WE HAVE GONE OUT AND SPOKEN TO OTHER NEIGHBORS AND BUY HOUSEHOLD, NOT COUNTING PEOPLE.
I'M TALKING AND NOT COUNTING SOMEONE WHO OWNS THREE LOTS WITH ONE HOUSE.
ONE PER HOUSEHOLD, WE CAME UP WITH, IN A SHORT TIME, 27 HOUSEHOLDS THAT FAVOR RETAINING THE ROADS WITH SHELL.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE NOT AVERSE TO TRYING TO FIND SOME SOLUTIONS.
I'M NOT COMPLETELY CLEAR YET ON EXACTLY WHAT THE CONCERN IS, BUT I'M ASSUMING DUST IS ONE OF THEM.
STORM RUNOFF, AS MIKA POINTED OUT, IS ANOTHER THING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.
BUT LET'S ASSUME IT'S JUST DUST.
THE DOUBLE CHIP AND TAX SEAL, AND ACTUALLY CHIP ROSS, ODDLY ENOUGH TOLD ME.
HE WAS THE ONE THAT CAME UP WITH THE IDEA FOR 6TH NORTH STREET, A COUPLE OF SATURDAYS AGO, I WENT OVER THERE WHEN IT WAS RAINING.
DOUBLE TACK CHIP SEAL IS NOT PERVIOUS, BUT NEIGHBORS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD SUGGESTING TO US THAT IT'S A PERVIOUS ROAD.
CHIP ROSS TOLD ME, IT'S NOT PERVIOUS, AND THE WATER RUNS FINE DOWN 6TH NORTH STREET INTO A CULVERT.
IF WE'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH THIS, LET'S NOT EXACERBATE THE PROBLEM OR LET'S MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE DO DOWN THERE IN THAT OLD TOWN AREA IS THAT WE SOLVE A PROBLEM WITHOUT CREATING ADDITIONAL UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, I'LL CALL THEM.
THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.
WE BUILT AN OLD TOWN AND WE CHOSE TO LIVE THERE BECAUSE OF THE DIRT ROADS.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE MANY FACTORS.
WE LOVE THE FEEL OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE SPIRIT THAT GOES DOWN THERE.
LOOKING BACK OVER ITS HISTORY, BACK TO THE TO MY INDIANS, WE SENSE THAT DOWN THERE, AND WE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT PAVED OVER.
TURNING A PARADISE INTO A PARKING LOT, AS JULIE MITCHELL WOULD SAY.
I'M LICENSED IN TWO STATES, AND ONE OF THEM IS NOT FLORIDA.
I'M NOT A ROAD EXPERT NOR WHAT I PRETEND TO BE, BUT I CAN READ.
I DID SOME RESEARCH, AND I DON'T TRUST THE INTERNET, AND I DON'T TRUST MR. GOOGLE VERY MUCH EITHER, BUT I CAN READ AND TRY TO FIND INFORMATION OUT THERE, AND THEN LOGICALLY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF SAYING, WHAT MAKES SENSE TO ME? I DID, ACCIDENTALLY, TRIP ACROSS, AND I'LL JUST PRESENT THIS ONE ITEM, AND THEN I'LL SIT DOWN.
A PRODUCT THAT WILL BE A SPRAY.
[02:10:04]
IT'S AN ENZYME BASED POLYMER, AND THE WAY IT WORKED BY THE DESCRIPTION IN THIS ARTICLE WAS, THEY APPLY FIVE COATINGS WITHIN A SHORT WINDOW OF TIME, AND THEN THE TREATMENT IS EVERY SIX MONTHS OR ONCE A YEAR.IT FORMS A CRUST AS CARS RIDE OVER IT.
IT'LL EVENTUALLY CRACK AND FRACTURE.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT WOULD BE A SOLUTION, BUT PERHAPS, THIS IS A MATERIAL FROM WHAT I'M READING, AND I WOULD WANT TO KNOW MORE FROM AN EXPERT, BRINGING IN SOMEONE THAT'S QUALIFIED AND REALLY KNOWS ROADS TO LOOK AT OUR ROADS DOWN THERE, AND SAY, HERE'S ALL THE PROBLEMS, HERE'S EVERYTHING WE SEE, HERE ARE YOUR VARIOUS OPTIONS, AND HERE'S WHAT WE THINK YOU CAN DO.
NOW, THAT SPRAY I JUST MENTIONED, IF IT WAS THOUGHT TO BE A GOOD IDEA, PERHAPS, WE COULD JUST TAKE A SECTION OF ONE ROAD AND TRY IT.
MAYBE THAT WOULD BE A VERY COST EFFECTIVE WAY TO JUST TRY A SECTION AND SEE WHAT WE THINK, KNOWING THAT OVER TIME, BY THE NATURE OF THAT PRODUCT, IT'S GOING TO BREAK DOWN AND GO AWAY.
WHEREAS, SOMETHING LIKE THE DOUBLE TACK CHIP SEAL, ONE SEC IS DOWN, IT'S NOT GOING AWAY. IT'S GOING TO STAY.
IF YOU PUT ASPHALT DOWN THERE, IT'S GOING TO STAY.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE I SPOKE TO, AND SOME OF MY NEIGHBORS ARE NEW.
ONE NEIGHBOR, HE'S BOUGHT A PROPERTY, HE'S GOING TO BUILD, THIS IS GOING TO BE HIS RESIDENCE. HE WANTS TO DIRT.
ANOTHER NEIGHBOR THAT WE JUST MET, LET'S GET RID OF THAT ASPHALT, I WOULD LOVE IT TOO.
FRONT OF MY STREET, STRATA, TEAR IT UP ALL THE WAY DOWN WHITE STREET.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LET'S BE SENSITIVE TO THE FOLKS.
IF DUST IS A PROBLEM, MAYBE WE CAN FIND A WAY TO MITIGATE THAT DUST WITHOUT RUINING THE CHARACTER OF OLD TOWN. THANK YOU.
I LIVE AT 1003 LADIES STREET ON THE CORNER OF LADIES AND COMMANDANT.
WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY IN 2018.
THERE WAS VERY LITTLE MOVEMENT ON THAT SIDE OF TOWN AT ALL.
THERE WAS ONE HOUSE THAT HAD JUST BEEN COMPLETED, WE BUILT THE SECOND NEW HOUSE, AND WE HAD NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.
PROGRESSIVELY, THINGS GOT WORSE.
I THINK MY WIFE'S GOING TO JUST EXPLODE TRYING TO KEEP DUST OFF OUR PORCHES.
WE BUILT PORCHES TO BE OUTSIDE AND ENJOY THE BEAUTY OF OLD TOWN IN FERNANDINA BEACH.
I'VE NEVER IN MY LIFE BOUGHT OR BUILT ON A PAVED ROAD.
I'VE LIVED ON A DIRT ROAD ALL MY LIFE OR SOME PORTION OF IT.
NOW, THEY BECAME PAVED LATER IN LIFE.
ON OUR PROPERTY, I HAVE BUILT AND MAINTAINED PRIVATE ROADS.
I'VE FOUGHT PRIVATE ROADS, HOW TO KEEP DRAINAGE AND WATER FROM EROSION.
I CAME HOME MAYBE TWO WEEKS AGO, AND ONCE AGAIN, YOU-ALL MAY HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE PICTURES.
I'VE GIVEN THEM TO KELLY, AND THE CITY IS SO WONDERFUL.
THEY COME OUT ALL THE TIME AND THEY TRY TO DO SOMETHING WITH STORMWATER.
BUT THERE WAS PROBABLY 130, 150 FEET ON LADY STREET AND MAYBE 75, 100 FEET ON COMMANDANT.
THREE OR FOUR INCHES DEEP, SITTING THERE IN A PUDDLE.
I JUST KIDDED WITH MY WIFE AND TOLD HER, I SAID, HOLD YOUR FEET UP.
WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH, AND IT WASHES OUT, AND IT GOES THE NDRS PEOPLE CAME LAST WEEK AND SAID, THEY CLIMBED OUT FROM UNDER THE HOUSE, AND SAID, YOU KNOW YOU HAVE STANDING WATER UNDER YOUR HOUSE? IT'S LIKE, NO, I CAN'T.
THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE. WATER DOESN'T STAND IN MY YARD.
I LEFT THE HOSE RUNNING, AND IT'S STILL JUST PERCHED RIGHT ON THROUGH.
THEN I REALIZED I HAD TWO LAYERS OF SIX ML VISCOING AS A VAPOR BARRIER TO KEEP WATER FROM COMING UP, BUT NOW I HAVE A SWIMMING POOL UNDER MY HOUSE.
I UNDERSTAND ALL THE TALK ABOUT THE SURVEY, AND ALL THIS, I DON'T LIKE THIS, AND I DON'T WANT THAT. I NEED HELP.
I NEED SOMETHING DONE FOR DUST AND FOR WATER EROSION.
[02:15:03]
WHEN I UNDERSTOOD THE CITY, THEY OFFERED THREE ALTERNATIVES.THE MILLINGS, THEY COULD PUT OUT IMMEDIATELY.
I PREFER THAT WE COULD KEEP THE SHELF.
BUT IN REALITY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT. I WISH THERE WAS.
I'M HERE FOR A SOLUTION AND NOT TO ANTAGONIZE AND PROCRASTINATE, AND JUST KEEP ON.
THERE'S THE TWO STEP CHIP OR WHATEVER IT IS, THE CITY TELLS ME THAT THEY CAN SCULPT THE ROAD AND TAKE CONSIDERATION WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE THE WATER.
WATER WAS NOT A PROBLEM, TWO YEARS AGO.
WITH ALL THIS CONSTRUCTION, WITH ALL THE TROLLEYS, AND TOUR BUSES, TRAFFIC, AND THE EXCITEMENT OF COMING TO OLD TOWN FOR SUNSET HAS GREATLY CHANGED THE ROADS.
SOME OF THE CITY EMPLOYEES TOLD ME THAT I SAID, WELL, WHY DID IT START? HOW DID IT GET THEM? THEY SAID THAT PRIOR TO ME COMING, OLD TOWN WAS DUG UP, AND SEWER LINES WERE PUT IN.
WHEN THEY DID THAT, THEY BROKE THE PAN.
THEY BROKE THE SUB SOIL CONDITIONER THAT WAS PUT DOWN ORIGINALLY, BECAUSE I THINK ALL THE STREETS WERE GOING TO BE PAVED ORIGINALLY.
MS. GASS WOULD PROBABLY KNOW THAT BETTER THAN ANY OF US.
>> I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT PROMISE. I'VE BEEN TOLD NEVER.
>> WELL, THE ROAD IS DOES NOT PARK.
WHETHER WE HAVE BAMBOO FLOORS OR WHATEVER ON THERE, THE ROAD DOESN'T PARK, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE PUT ON TOP.
WE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE THE WATER AND HAVE SOME SURFACE THAT'S GOING TO TRANSFER THAT WATER.
MY FRIEND, BOB LIVES ON A PAVED STREET.
I CATCH ALL THAT WATER THAT COMES DOWN, AND I NEVER DID.
IT WAS NEVER THERE WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE LOT AND WHEN WE WATCHED THE LOT COME ALONG INTO A HOME.
I JUST NEED HELP. I'VE GOT LOTS OF PICTURES.
THE LAST TIME I LOOKED, OUR RUBBER MAT ON THE BRICK WALK WAS, PART OF IT WAS UP ON THE FIRST STEP. IT'S HEAVY.
BUT THE WATER WASHED THE MAT UP ON THE STEPS UNDER MY HOUSE.
I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT YOU WOULD CALL IT, BUT MAYBE A FRENCH DRAIN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT GOES FROM A CATCH BASIN TO A CATCH BASE, AND IT HOLDS THE WATER IN THE PIPE.
BOTH THOSE DRAINS WERE COMPLETELY UNDERWATER WHEN I CAME ON.
IT FILLS UP THE DRAINS, AND IT CAN'T GO ANYWHERE.
THERE'S PLACES TO MOVE THAT WATER. WE JUST NEED SOME HELP.
>> CAN I JUMP IN WITH SOMETHING? I THINK, I MEAN, WE'VE HAD SO MANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT OLD TOWN OVER THE YEARS OF PAVE SHELL.
THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN TWO SIDES OF IT.
I FEEL AT THIS JUNCTURE, IT'S BEEN A REALLY GOOD TIME THAT THE GROUP OF ANTI-DUST PEOPLE BROUGHT THIS UP, BECAUSE NOW WE'RE NOT JUST DEALING WITH THE DUST.
THIS IS A MUCH LARGER PROBLEM.
WE'VE ADDED SO MANY ROADS AND TAKEN OUT SO MANY TREES.
WE CAN'T JUST AD HOC STICK IN A DRAIN, REGRADE THIS.
I MEAN, THAT WATER HAS TO GO SOME PLACE.
WE CAN'T PUSH IT. IT CAN'T GO DOWN, AND IF THE WATER TABLE IS SO SATURATED AND WE PUT IN THESE TEMPORARY DRAINS EVERYWHERE, THEY'RE AN EYESORE NUMBER 1.
THEY ONLY WORK TO HOLD A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WATER IF YOU DO A CALCULATION.
WHAT WE'VE DONE ON NORTH 6TH STREET, I MEAN, YOU DRIVE DOWN THAT, I CAN'T EVEN TAKE MY BIKE ON IT ANYMORE.
I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE VYING FOR THE CHIP AND SEAL, BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD PUT STROLLERS ON IT EASIER, AND IT WOULD BE A NICE BETTER SURFACE.
I'D RATHER DRIVE MY BIKE THROUGH THE SHELL OF OLD TOWN AND NAVIGATE THAT, THAN TRY TO DRIVE THROUGH THE NORTH 6TH LOOKS LIKE FALLING DOWN ASPHALT.
ANYWAY, MY POINT IS, I'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WITH JEREMIAH, WITH KELLY,
[02:20:03]
WITH DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN THE CITY, COMMISSIONER TOTIN WHO'S HERE, AND I KNOW SHE'S TAKEN A BIG INTEREST IN THIS.THIS HAS TO BE LOOKED AT AT FROM A HOLISTIC STANDPOINT.
IT'S NOT JUST HOW DO WE KEEP THE DUST DOWN? IT'S NOT CAN WE STICK A DRAIN OVER HERE? THIS IS HOW ARE WE GOING TO FIX THIS WHOLE PROBLEM AND MAINTAIN THE CHARACTER OF IT? BECAUSE WE HAVE A COLOR ISSUE TOO WITH WHAT WE PUT DOWN IN OLD TOWN.
IF WE PUT DARK MACADAM IN OLD TOWN, IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE SEA ISLAND.
IT DOESN'T HELP YOU TOMORROW IF IT RAINS, BUT I THINK THE SURVEY IS JUST THE VERY INITIAL PIECE OF WHAT WILL BE A MUCH BROADER STUDY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS RIGHT AND NOT THROW GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD IN LITTLE BITS AND PIECES AT A TIME.
>> SIR, ARE YOU READY TO LET SOMEBODY ELSE SPEAK.
>> I THOUGHT SOMEBODY ELSE WAS ASKING ME A QUESTION.
>> SIR, DID YOU WANT TO COME UP AND SPEAK? I THINK YOU WERE SAYING, NO, BUT YOU WANT IT SAID.
>> MY NAME IS JEFF CHAPMAN. I LIVE AT 1017, SAN FERNANDO STREET SO I'M A BLACK FROM PANDY.
IT'S LIKE THE WATER STOPS AT THAT INTERSECTION.
WHY DOESN'T IT CONTINUE DOWN HILL THE 14TH STREET? SUPPOSEDLY FROM WHAT I HEAR, IT USED TO, BUT IT DOESN'T DO IT ANYMORE.
DID THEY SCREW IT UP WHEN THEY PUT THE RIBBON CURBS IN OR WHEN DID IT STOP GOING DOWN THE 14TH STREET?
>> OH, WHEN OLD TIME GUIDELINES CAME ALONG.
>> THAT WAS BEFORE ALL THE CONSTRUCTION SO THE WATER COULD MOVE.
>> ALL THE THINGS THAT WERE PREDICTED BEFORE THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES WERE ADOPTED HAVE COME TO FRUITION.
JOE NOTMAN AND PAT GASS HOLLERED AS LOUD AS WE COULD THAT YOU CAN'T PUT ALL THESE HOUSES IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WITHOUT ADDRESSING STORM WATER RUNOFF.
WE WERE TOLD BY EVERYBODY, OH, POO, POO, I'LL BE ALL RIGHT.
WE SCREAMED AS LOUD AS WE COULD, YOU CAN'T PUT ALL THESE HOUSES IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WITHOUT ADDRESSING THE PARKING ISSUE.
EVERY HOUSE IS GOING TO HAVE AT LEAST TWO CARS, AND HEAVEN FORBID, THEY HAVE A BOAT THEN THEY HAVE TEENAGE CHILDREN WHO WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER CAR.
WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PUT ALL THIS? THEY ALL OH, POO, POO, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT.
>> IT SHOULD NEVER GET THOSE TEENAGERS A CALL.
>> WELL, NOW IT'S COME TO FRUITION, AND WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.
WHEN THE RIBBONS WENT IN, WELL, THAT STARTED IT AND NOW THE CARS ARE THERE, AND THEY'RE PACKING IT ALL DOWN.
I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE US DO SOMETHING VERY HISTORICAL AND THAT WOULD BE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF TOWN.
I'D LIKE TO SEE US DO IT RIGHT.
I'D LIKE TO SEE US TAKE CARE OF THE STORMWATER IN OLD TOWN BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME, I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE US PAVE IT.
BUT IF YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE AFTER YOU TAKE CARE OF THE STORMWATER THAT WILL TAKE CARE OF THE DUST AND THE ROADS, DO THAT.
BUT PUT THE STORMWATER IN THERE TO DEAL WITH STORMWATER.
BECAUSE ALL OF THAT LIME ROCK IS GOING INTO YOUR RIVER AND IT'S GOING INTO YOUR MARSH.
ANYTHING THAT CAN GET OUT OF OLD TOWN, IT'S NOT GOING ANY PLACE NICE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE.
ONE OF THE PLACES THE WATER USED TO GO TO WAS RIGHT DOWN ESTRADA AND INTO INTO EGAN'S CREEK, RIGHT DOWN BY SCOOT AND RONNIE'S, AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE BECAUSE BILL HASN'T FINISHED SELLING ALL OF HIS LOTS YET AND BUILDING ALL OF HIS HOUSES YET AND THE CONSTRUCTION WILL END WHEN HE HAS SOLD THEM ALL AND BUILT THEM ALL AND THEN HE'LL GO AWAY, AND THEN WE WILL LIVE WITH IT.
BUT THE WATER IS STILL COMING, THE CARS ARE STILL COMING, IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE.
[02:25:01]
>> OKAY. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS ISSUE?
>> JENIFER HARRISON, 820 [INAUDIBLE] STREET.
THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH I TOOK THIS AFTERNOON AND YOU CAN JUST PASS AROUND AND THIS IS TANDY'S CORNER.
THAT'S THE DRY PICTURE, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN IT'S WET.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO JUST REMIND YOU ALL HOW REALLY WONDERFUL OLD TOWN IS.
NOW, HERE WE HAVE THE PIPPI LONGSTOCKING HOUSE AND I JUST TOOK [INAUDIBLE].
YOU CAN SEE HERE PIPPI HOUSE HAVE THE SHELL COMING UP TO HERE.
AGAIN, I DO NOT NEED THESE BACK SO IF YOU CAN KEEP IT.
I JUST TOOK SOME PHOTOGRAPHS CLOSE UP OFF THE SHELL STREETS.
I MUST ADMIT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY HEAVY RAIN FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS, BUT THEY ARE IN JUST EXCELLENT CONDITION AT THE MOMENT.
IT'S JUST A REAL PLEASURE TO DRIVE ON THEM.
I THINK ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO THAT WILL PRESERVE OUR SHELL STREETS IN OLD TOWN IS WELL WORTH DOING BECAUSE IT IS A HISTORIC PLACE.
THEY ARE HISTORIC STREETS, AND THEY LOOK TERRIFIC AS SHELL STREET, AND THEY WOULD NOT IF THEY WERE ALL PAVED OVER. THANK YOU.
>> WELL, THEY USED TO ALL BE IN BROWN DIRT.
>> ANYONE ELSE WISH TO SPEAK TO THIS ISSUE? OKAY. FOR DISCUSSION.
>> I DON'T REALLY THINK THERE'S DISCUSSION.
THIS WAS JUST A POINT OF PROCESS WHERE WE ARE.
>> WHAT I WHAT I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO DO THOUGH AT THIS POINT IS KIND OF ECHO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT TAMMY HAS SAID.
WHEN THIS PROBLEM WAS FIRST PRESENTED TO THIS BOARD, IT WAS DUST.
THAT WAS IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS, AND THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT RESURFACING, WHICH IS WHY THAT'S ALL THAT THIS SURVEY IS ADDRESSING.
IT SOUNDS TO ME THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A REWRITTEN PROBLEM STATEMENT.
WHAT IS IT WE'RE TRYING TO FIX OUT THERE? BEFORE WE GO HALF COCKED TRYING TO DO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT END UP HAVING TO BE REDONE.
>> I DO YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE WITHIN THE SURVEY BECAUSE THERE'S AREAS TO FILL OUT INFORMATION AND ADD MORE TEXT TO IT.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT WHAT I AM SEEING IS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT STORMWATER.
UTILIZING THE EXISTING DOCUMENT THAT TOOL THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, WE'RE GETTING THAT KIND OF FEEDBACK EVEN THOUGH IT'S UNDER THE ROADWAY PREFERENCE AS A TITLE.
>> I THINK AT THIS POINT, THIS IS JUST ONE WE'RE A SMALL COG IN THIS BIG PROCESS NOW.
I SPOKE AT LENGTH TO ANDRE ABOUT THIS, TOO.
THEY'RE GOING SO FAR AS TO POTENTIALLY LIDAR THE WHOLE OLD TOWN, THE RADAR AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO ELEVATIONS.
THAT'S LIKE A TRUE ENGINEERING APPROACH TO SEE WHAT'S THE [INAUDIBLE]? WHERE'S EVERYTHING GOING? WHAT ARE WE DOING? THIS IS NOT JUST A HDC LET'S DISCUSS ABOUT DUST.
>> I THINK THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE LOOKING FOR A FIX THAT MAYBE WE THOUGHT WOULD BE A SHORT TERM FIX, BUT THIS PROBLEM DESERVES MORE OF A LOOK AND I THINK YOU WOULD ALL AGREE TO THAT AT THIS POINT.
WHAT I'M GOING TO ASK, IS THE BOARD OKAY WITH GIVING MS. GIBSON SOME DIRECTION TO TAKE BACK TO THE ASSOCIATED DEPARTMENTS ON THIS? BECAUSE WHEN JEREMIAH FIRST SPOKE HERE ABOUT THIS TOPIC, HE DID SAY THERE WAS NOTHING IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM SO WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY RIGHT NOW TO EVEN DO, IT SOUNDS LIKE A SHORT TERM FIX, OR AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE.
WHAT I'M GOING TO ASK MS. GIBSON, AND IF I SAY SOMETHING OFFENSIVE TOO, I KNOW I CAN COUNT ON YOU TO TELL ME.
WHAT I'M GOING TO ASK IS THAT ANDRE, JEREMIAH, AND ALL THE ASSOCIATED DEPARTMENT HEADS THAT NEED TO BE INVOLVED WITH THIS, IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT A NEW STREET PROJECT AND A NEW STORMWATER PROJECT AND A NEW THIS AND A NEW THAT SO IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN JUST GO IN AND SLAP A BAND AID ON IT.
WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT THEY NEED PROBABLY GOTTEN IN THE SURVEY, BUT ALSO TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT WHAT THESE PROBLEMS ARE DOING THAN THEY MIGHT UNDERSTAND AT THIS POINT SO THAT THEY
[02:30:02]
CAN DETERMINE A TRUE ENGINEERING APPROACH TO HOW TO FIX IT.IT SOUNDS LIKE ANDRE IS IN THAT PLACE RIGHT NOW. YES, SIR.
>> EVENTUALLY, WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE ELECTRIC UTILITIES UNDERGROUND.
>> LET'S NOT ASK FOR THE WORLD ONE MEETING.
>> I DON'T WANT TO SEE A SURFACE PUT OUT THERE THEN SOMEBODY COMES TAKES IT.
>> I'M TAKING NOTES ON MY PHONE. [OVERLAPPING].
>> DR. HARRISON WAS PART OF AN UNDERGROUND UTILITY PROJECT THAT HAPPENED HOW MANY YEARS AGO?
>> YOU'RE STILL WAITING FOR IT?
>> WELL, WHY ARE YOU GOING TO TEAR UP THE P-PATCH? YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO IT ALL?
>> WELL, IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A MAJOR REHAUL OUT THERE TO ADDRESS ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED, AND I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL TAKE THAT.
BUT IF IT WERE, THEN WHY NOT TALK ABOUT IT?
>> I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT GET DONE SOONER THAN LATER BECAUSE I BELIEVE VERY SOON THE CITY IS GOING TO HAVE SOME LIABILITY PROBLEMS DEPENDING ON HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE GOT WATER SITTING UNDERNEATH THEIR HOUSE CAUSED BY THE ACTIONS OF THE CITY.
>> BECAUSE OF MY BUDDY HERE, LADIES STREET UTILITIES ARE UNDERGROUND [LAUGHTER] SO BRING ON SOME WORK.
>> I SEE. IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE OUR NEWLY ELECTED COMMISSIONERS AND OUR COMMISSIONERS NEED TO HEAR ABOUT THIS FROM YOU GUYS AS WELL.
BECAUSE WE'RE AN ADVISORY BOARD WE DON'T MAKE THE RULES [OVERLAPPING].
>> WE CERTAINLY DON'T CREATE THE BUDGET SO THIS LADY IS HERE TO HEAR YOUR NEEDS.
THAT'S WHY SHE CAME TO THIS MEETING.
>> UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN WE GET THE NEIGHBORS ALL TOGETHER, IT GETS KIND OF CRAZY.
>> WELL, IT DOES [LAUGHTER] AND I THINK THAT JUST THE QUESTION OF WHAT KIND OF MATERIALS YOU WANT FOR THE STREETS.
SO FAR, I'VE HEARD JUST AS MANY SHELLS AS I'VE HEARD HAVEN AND HALF THE PEOPLE IN OLD TOWN ARE LIKELY TO BE UNHAPPY WITH WHATEVER THAT SOLUTION ENDS UP BEING.
BUT I THINK THAT WHAT SOUNDS LIKE A MORE CRITICAL ISSUE TO DEAL WITH THE STORMWATER.
>> I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT FOR CERTAINLY WHEN YOU START DISCUSSING NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, THIS SOUNDS LIKE A PRIORITY PROJECT.
>> BUT THE RESIDENTS OF OLD TOWN CANNOT PROVIDE A SOLUTION.
>> THAT'S GOT TO COME FROM PROFESSIONALS.
>> ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING THAT MS. GIBSON TALKS TO THE DEPARTMENT HEAD TO HAVE THAT RESPONSIBILITY.
>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE GREEN THAT'S SITTING ON THE CORNER [INAUDIBLE] THESE LOT AT [INAUDIBLE] YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE SAND HAS ERODED AWAY FROM THE.
>> YES, THERE IS A LONG TERM SOLUTION THAT HAS TO BE HAD, BUT THERE'S ALSO A SHORT TERM FIX TO KEEP THE WATER FROM UNDERNEATH HIS HOUSE.
>> THERE MAY VERY WELL BE SOMETHING ALREADY IN THE WORKS BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD CITY FOLKS OUT THERE ALREADY SO I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE'S A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN WE FIRST HEARD ABOUT SO FYI. ANYTHING ELSE?
>> I HAVE THREE THINGS, FOUR, ACTUALLY, THINGS THAT I DIDN'T INCLUDE IN MY STAFF REPORT AS AN ITEM, BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I MENTIONED FOR YOUR AWARENESS.
I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY SUBMITTED OUR CLG ANNUAL REPORT AS IS REQUIRED FOR CONTINUED PARTICIPATION AS A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT PRIOR TO THE DEADLINE.
THERE IS A CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS, AND YOU MAY HAVE RECEIVED EMAIL ABOUT THIS ALREADY REQUESTING CONSIDERATION OF GIVING A PRESENTATION AT THE UPCOMING PRESERVATION ON MAIN STREET EVENT, THE SECOND WEEK OF JULY IN 2025.
WE ARE VERY EXCITED TO BE ABLE TO HOST PRESERVATION ON MAIN STREET.
I BELIEVE THE LAST TIME THE CITY HOSTED IT WAS IN 2016 AND MUCH HAS CHANGED SO IF YOU HAVE IDEAS FOR PRESENTATIONS, PLEASE GET THEM SUBMITTED.
IF YOU AREN'T SURE OF SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN, YOU WANT TO TALK THROUGH IT OR CREATE A GROUP AND SUBMIT IT.
I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE A WELCOMED IDEA SO JUST A HEADS UP ON THAT.
I'VE RECENTLY SUBMITTED A PRELIMINARY SITE IDENTIFICATION,
[02:35:05]
IT'S CALLED A PSIQ TO THE STATE REQUESTING THAT BOSCO DELO BE NOMINATED FOR NATIONAL REGISTER DESIGNATION.CURRENTLY, BOSCO IS ONLY LOCALLY DESIGNATED.
THIS IS PART OF THE RESTORATION FOUNDATION'S GRANT THAT THEY RECEIVED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH GETTING DOCUMENTATION THAT WOULD FURTHER THAT NOMINATION.
BUT THE FIRST STEP IN THAT WAS GETTING THE STATE TO AGREE THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN THAT PROCESS.
THAT OCCURRED IN LATE OCTOBER RIGHT AFTER OUR LAST MEETING.
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING BACK AS OF YET.
THEN FINALLY, WE ARE VERY EXCITED, I DON'T KNOW IF I MENTIONED THIS LAST TIME, BUT WE WILL HAVE SOME NEW STAFF JOINING US IN FEBRUARY OF 2025.
>> YES. THAT'S ALL I HAVE, I PROMISE.
>> I'M SORRY, I MISSED THAT, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO HAVE IN FEBRUARY?
ANYTHING ELSE? WE'RE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU ALL.
>> THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE]
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.