Nov 07, 2024 Code Enforcement and Appeals Board

[00:00:01]

CODE ENFORCEMENT AND APPEALS BOARD IS NOW IN SESSION.

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF A QUORUM]

THANK YOU. PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, AND THE BLESSING.

LET US PRAY.

OUR FATHER, OUR GOD, WE COME TONIGHT.

OH, LORD, AND WE JUST SAY THANK YOU, FATHER FOR YOUR MANY BLESSINGS.

WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR MULTITUDE OF TENDER MERCIES.

IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR YOU ON OUR SIDE, LORD, WHERE WOULD WE BE RIGHT NOW? FATHER, WE INVOKE YOUR PRESENCE IN THIS MEETING OF FERNANDINA BEACH CODE ENFORCEMENT APPEALS BOARD.

LORD, WE ASK THAT YOU WOULD LEAD AND GUIDE IN A MANNER THAT'S PLEASING IN THY SIGHT.

THE PEOPLE OF GOD SAID AMEN.

THANK YOU.

HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES OF THE LAST CODE HEARING, OCTOBER 3RD?

[3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

THANK YOU.

IS THAT OKAY? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY CHANGES TO THE AGENDA AS PRESENTED BY THE CITY? WE HAVE JUST TWO CASES.

TWO CASES? GREAT. THANK YOU.

MADAM TAMMI, BOARD ATTORNEY, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURE? SURE. WE HAVE TWO CASES TONIGHT ON THE AGENDA.

EACH ONE WILL BE HANDLED SEPARATELY.

SO OUR BOARD HERE IS A QUASI JUDICIAL BOARD, AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THEY'RE NOT REALLY JUDGES, BUT THEY'RE ACTING LIKE JUDGES PURSUANT TO FLORIDA LAW.

THESE TYPES OF CASES WHERE WE'RE APPLYING CITY CODES TO A PARTICULAR PROPERTY THAT THE STATE SAYS WE CONDUCT THOSE AS QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARINGS.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS TO PROVIDE NOT JUST THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND THE CITY WITH DUE PROCESS AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, BUT ALSO FOR AFFECTED PARTIES THAT MAY BE AFFECTED BY THAT PARTICULAR CASE TO BE HEARD, AND WHAT THAT MEANS AFFECTED PARTIES IN FERNANDINA BEACH MEANS YOU LIVE IN THE CITY.

SO IF YOU ARE HERE TONIGHT AS AN AFFECTED PARTY, YOU LIVE IN THE CITY, YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ONE OF THESE CASES OR BOTH, AND YOU WISH TO SPEAK.

YOU'RE ACTUALLY TESTIFYING UNDER OATH.

THE BOARD SECRETARY, MADAM CITY CLERK, IS GOING TO ASK YOU TO RISE AFTER THE CHAIR DIRECTS HER TO TAKE AN OATH.

THIS IS IF YOU PLAN TO SPEAK AT ALL TONIGHT, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, MAKE SURE THAT YOU TAKE AN OATH, BECAUSE YOUR TESTIMONY BECOMES PART OF OUR RECORD THAT WE'RE KEEPING TONIGHT, WHICH IS AN AUDIO AND VISUAL VIDEO RECORDING, AND THAT RECORD, IF THERE'S AN APPEAL WHICH, BY THE WAY, AN APPEAL OF EITHER OF THESE CASES, YOU HAVE TO DO AN APPEAL WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD'S DECISION.

SO IT'S A VERY SHORT STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.

THE PROCESS OF THE HEARING IS FIRST, ONE OF THE CODE OFFICERS, IF MR. WELLS WILL DO THE FIRST CASE AND I'LL BE REPRESENTING THE CITY AND STEPPING DOWN FROM HERE BECAUSE OF THESE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS, IT'S A CONFLICT FOR ME TO SIT UP HERE AFTER I'VE ADVISED STAFF UP TO THIS HEARING.

SO ON THE SECOND CASE, I WILL BE CONFLICTED OUT AS THE BOARD ATTORNEY AND THERE'LL BE AN INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY.

MR. POOLE WILL COME UP HERE AND REPRESENT THE BOARD AND ADVISE THEM.

I REPRESENT CITY STAFF, BUT THE FIRST CASE, I'M REPRESENTING THE BOARD.

SO MR. WELLS IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION TO INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD.

HE EVERYTHING THAT HE'S GOING TO PRESENT TONIGHT IS PREPARED BEFOREHAND HAS BEEN UPLOADED TO THE CITY'S WEBSITE, AND ANYBODY CAN ACCESS THAT ABOUT A WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING, AND SO HE'LL ENTER THOSE INTO THE RECORD AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THOSE ON THE SCREEN THERE.

THERE MAY BE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OR OTHER DOCUMENTS.

THEN AFTER MR. WELLS WITH THE CITY DOES HIS EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER OR RESPONDENT COMES TO THE PODIUM.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOU ARE THEN PRESENTING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY IN YOUR OWN BEHALF AS A RESPONDENT IN THESE CASES, AND THEN IF THERE ARE ANY AFFECTED PARTIES, YOU ARE THE NEXT ONES TO GO.

YOU COME TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND THEN YOU GET TO TESTIFY AND PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, AND BY THE WAY, THE PARTIES, THE CITY, THE PROPERTY OWNER AND AFFECTED PARTIES ALL GET TO CALL WITNESSES.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE WITNESSES, THAT'S OKAY, BUT YOU ALSO GET TO ASK QUESTIONS OR CROSS-EXAMINE THE CITY STAFF, THE PROPERTY OWNER, AND ANY WITNESSES. SO REMEMBER, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, YOU CAN DO THOSE EXAMINATIONS DIRECTLY.

[00:05:04]

MANY TIMES WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF RESPONDENTS OR AFFECTED PARTIES.

SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE ANY QUESTIONS FROM ANYBODY AT THE PLEASURE OF THE.

OKAY. SO AFTER AFFECTED PARTIES PROVIDE THEIR TESTIMONY, THEN THE BOARD CHAIR IS GOING TO CLOSE THE HEARING AND THAT MEANS NOBODY ELSE IS GOING TO SPEAK.

THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD FOR EITHER THE CITY OR THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THEIR AGENT, BUT NOBODY ELSE.

SO IF YOU GET ANOTHER IDEA, DON'T FLAIL YOUR HANDS BECAUSE THE CHAIR IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CALL ON YOU.

THERE ARE EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU CAN PROBABLY REOPEN THE HEARING, BUT THEN EVERYBODY GETS A CHANCE TO SPEAK AGAIN.

OKAY. THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU.

GREAT. THANK YOU.

HAS ANY MEMBER OF THE BOARD RECEIVED ANY EX-PARTE COMMUNICATIONS ON EITHER OF THESE CASES? NO. NO. NOPE.

NO. OKAY.

THANK YOU.

WOULD THE BOARD SECRETARY SWEAR IN THE WITNESSES THAT WILL BE TESTIFYING THIS EVENING, PLEASE? IS ANYBODY ELSE GOING TO BE SPEAKING THROUGH THE CHAIR? SHE'S SWEARING IN ATTORNEYS THESE DAYS.

YOU WANT YOUR ATTORNEY TO SWEAR IN.

YES. OKAY.

OH, YEAH. THAT'S ME.

ALL ATTORNEYS HAVE TO. NOT JUST THESE DAYS.

THAT'S LAW. YEP.

ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO SPEAK HAS TO BE SWORN IN.

JUST IN CASE. JUST IN CASE WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU TESTIFY.

IF YOU DON'T. IF YOU DON'T TAKE AN OATH.

THANK YOU. IF YOU'LL EACH RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE FACTUAL STATEMENTS AND REPRESENTATIONS WHICH YOU ARE ABOUT TO PRESENT TO THIS BOARD DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE TRUTHFUL AND ACCURATE? YES. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVEN'T BEEN TO A CODE ENFORCEMENT AND APPEALS BOARD HEARING ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ORDER, THE CITY WILL FIRST PRESENT ITS CASE, AND THEN THE ALLEGED VIOLATOR WILL BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THEIR CASE.

IS THERE ANY OLD BUSINESS? I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ANY OLD BUSINESS FOR TONIGHT.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

THE FIRST CASE THAT WE HAVE IS ANTHONY J.

[5.1 ANTHONY J. & KAREN K. BEISLER, PARCEL 00-00-31-1640-000A-0180, CASE 2024-0254]

BEISLER, PARCEL 00-00-31-1640-000A-0180 CASE 2024-0254. WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT? YES. THANK YOU.

MY NAME IS GEORGE WELLS.

I'M A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.

AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO SUBMIT ALL OF OUR EVIDENCE INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD, PLEASE.

NO OBJECTION. NO OBJECTION.

NO OBJECTIONS.

IT JUST CLOSED THE APPLICATIONS WHENEVER YOU DID.

THAT'S WHY YOU'RE GETTING THAT.

CAN YOU GET BACK IN FROM HERE? THERE'S NOTHING ON THAT.

HIS MOUSE IS NOT WORKING ON THAT MAIN SCREEN.

THAT'S WHY WE KEEP THE IT PERSON ON HAND.

EXACTLY.

OKAY. GREAT.

THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WE'RE READY TO GO BACK IN SEPTEMBER 19TH OF 2024.

I WAS I OBSERVED THIS VACANT LOT THAT WAS OVERGROWN, NEEDING TO BE CUT.

I OPENED THE CODE CASE AND RECORDED THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE VIOLATION.

THAT'S THE PREVIOUS PICTURE THAT I TOOK ON THE 9/19, AND THIS IS THE PICTURE I TOOK THIS MORNING.

[00:10:06]

THE PROPERTY WAS STILL IN VIOLATION.

ON OCTOBER 21ST AS YOU CAN SEE IN YOUR PACKET, WE RECEIVED THE SIGNED RECEIPT FROM THE FROM THE DELIVERY OF THE CERTIFIED LETTER. KAREN BEISLER, THE CO-OWNER, WAS THE PERSON WHO SIGNED FOR THE RECEIPT GIVING HIS PROPER SERVICE.

OCTOBER 30TH I PERFORMED A PRE-AGENDA INSPECTION AND THE PROPERTY WAS STILL IN VIOLATION, AS YOU CAN SEE.

NOVEMBER 7TH, WHICH IS THIS MORNING, I PERFORMED A CEAB INSPECTION.

THERE WAS NO CHANGE.

CONCLUSION IS THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

OF COURSE THEY'RE OUT OF STATE OWNERS.

THEY LIVE IN DUBLIN, OHIO.

THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE BEEN PROPERLY SERVED.

THEY KNOW THE VIOLATIONS.

THEY KNOW THE TIME FRAME WHEN THE CORRECTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MADE, AND IT'S STILL IN VIOLATION, AND THERE'S BEEN NO CONTACT EITHER WAY. WE COULD CONTACT THEM.

THEY DID NOT CONTACT US.

THE CITY. THE CITY RECOMMENDS A MOTION BE MADE TO FIND THE RESPONDENT IN VIOLATION OF CODE OF ORDINANCES.

SECTION 42-116 DUTY TO MAINTAIN PROPERTY, GIVING THE OWNER A TEN ADDITIONAL DAYS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE BY NOVEMBER 22ND, 2024. THE CITY ALSO RECOMMENDS A MOTION BE MADE THAT ALL ADMINISTRATIVE FEES BE PAID BY THE RESPONDENT AND A FINE OF $25 PER DAY PER VIOLATION TO BEGIN ON NOVEMBER 23RD, 2024, UNTIL THE PROPERTY IS IN COMPLIANCE.

THE CITY RESTS. THANK YOU.

IS THE RESPONDENT HERE? NO. OKAY.

DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY. I GUESS WE'LL JUST MOVE ON TO THE.

DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? FIVE NOTIFICATIONS OR VISITS, CORRECT? YEAH. WELL, THERE'S ONLY THREE DIFFERENT INSPECTIONS, BUT THE CERTIFIED LETTER WAS SENT OUT, AND LIKE I SAID, THE CO-OWNER, THE WIFE, SHE SIGNED FOR THAT CERTIFIED LETTER.

SO THEY DO.

THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE LETTER.

THEY KNOW WHAT THE VIOLATIONS ARE.

THEY KNOW WHAT THE TIME FRAME WAS TO CORRECT THE VIOLATIONS, AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO THIS LOT.

I DON'T HAVE THE PACKAGE.

WHAT IS THE ADDRESS? IT'S A PARCEL NUMBER.

IT'S ON GREGOR MCGREGOR.

OF COURSE, LET ME GIVE YOU THE PARCEL NUMBER PROBABLY WON'T HELP, BUT IT'S 00-00-31-1640-000A-0180.

IT'S LIKE THE SECOND HOUSE AT THE END OF THE ROAD OR SECOND LOT.

THERE'S ONE MORE HOUSE AND THEN THERE'S IT GOES TO SOUTH FLETCHER.

G. MCGREGOR DR.

SO THEY'VE RECEIVED THE INFORMATION BUT HAVE NOT BEEN IN TOUCH IN ANY WAY.

NO, MA'AM, AND SHE WAS A COHERENT PERSON WHEN SHE SIGNED.

YES. THERE WASN'T A MEDICAL SITUATION OR ANYTHING.

INTERESTING, AND ANY QUESTIONS? GEORGE, AS YOU GO SOUTH ON GREGOR MCGREGOR, IS IT THE LAST LOT ON THE LEFT BEFORE THAT HOUSE ON THE CORNER? THERE'S ONE HOUSE ON THE CORNER.

YES, AND THEN THE HOUSE THAT'S NORTH OF THAT IS ACTUALLY THE LOT I KEEP SAYING HOUSE.

THE LOT NORTH OF THAT LAST HOUSE.

RIGHT. WASN'T THAT LOT FOR SALE? YES IT WAS. OKAY.

DO WE KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S RELEVANT, BUT DO WE KNOW IF THAT'S STILL THE CASE? I BELIEVE THE LOT HAD TRANSFERRED OWNERSHIP A WHILE BACK.

OKAY. THE OWNER THAT PREVIOUSLY HAD IT CLEARED IT, AND THEN THIS OWNER BOUGHT IT, AND THIS IS THE STATE THAT IT'S IN.

OKAY. MR. WELLS, DID YOU TRY TO CONTACT THEM BY PHONE AT ALL? WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF RECORDS FOR OUT OF STATE FOR DUBLIN, OHIO.

OKAY. SO JUST TO CLARIFY, YOUR RECOMMENDATION IS ON NOVEMBER 22ND.

THE FINES WILL BEGIN IF IT'S NOT CLEARED, RIGHT? YES. OKAY.

$25 PER DAY, PLUS THE ADMIN FEES.

THE ADMIN FEES ARE $255.15.

ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE BOARD? I WOULD MOVE THAT. WE ACCEPT THE CITY'S RECOMMENDATIONS.

[00:15:02]

YOU GOING TO MAKE A MOTION? THAT'S WHAT I MOVED. YES. OKAY, I'LL SECOND THAT.

SECOND. WOULD YOU CALL THE VOTE? MADAM SECRETARY, PLEASE.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT CASE.

OKAY.

WE'LL WAIT TILL MR. POOLE GETS SETTLED, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE ON.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, CHAIR KENT.

YOU'RE WELCOME. OKAY, THE SECOND CASE WE'RE DEALING WITH IS KATHLEEN MORIARTY.

[5.2 KATHLEEN MORIARTY, 1015 LADIES ST., CASE 2024-0169]

VIOLATION OF THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH CODE OF ORDINANCES EXIST: SECTION 2.03.02 AND 6.02.06 REQUESTING BOARD DETERMINATION OF THE CASE.

MISS MICHELLE, ARE YOU PRESENTING THE CASE FOR THE CITY? SHE IS GOING TO THE CITY IS CALLING MICHELLE FORSTROM AS OUR FIRST WITNESS, AND SO IF IT PLEASES THE BOARD, I'M READY TO ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS, AND THEN SHE'LL MAKE HER PRESENTATION.

OKAY. CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD AND YOUR EMPLOYER, YOUR POSITION AND HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN EMPLOYED? MICHELLE FORSTROM, DEPUTY CODE ENFORCEMENT DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.

I HAVE BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR ALMOST 19 YEARS.

OKAY. OKAY. HAVE YOU WAS YOUR HAVE YOUR ENTIRE 19 YEARS WITH THE CITY BEEN IN CODE ENFORCEMENT OR HAVE YOU BEEN IN OTHER POSITIONS? I WOULD SAY 18 YEARS OF THAT HAS BEEN WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT.

OKAY, GREAT, AND SO WE ARE HERE ON THE CASE RELATED TO 1015 LADIES STREET.

YES, AND SO YOU'RE WE'RE USED TO OFFICER FOR DIRECTOR FORSTROM MAKING PRESENTATIONS, AND BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A USUAL COURT HEARING, I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD WITHOUT OBJECTION FROM THE RESPONDENT.

JUST ASK MISS FORSTROM TO MAKE HER PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCE HER EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD FOR WHY SHE BELIEVES THERE IS A VIOLATION OF THE CODE.

SO GO AHEAD.

OKAY, AND AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO ENTER ALL THE EVIDENCE IN THE STAFF REPORT INTO.

EXCUSE ME? INTO EVIDENCE.

OR ON THE RECORD.

SO ON JUNE 20TH 3RD TO 2024, I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS OF 1015 LADIES STREET CLAIMING THAT THERE WERE A STEADY THERE WAS STEADY RENTAL ACTIVITY WITH CARS AT THIS TIME LINING LADIES STREET ALL THE WAY DOWN TO COMMANDANT STREET.

I INFORMED THE COMPLAINANT THAT THE PROPERTY OWNERS POSSESSED A LOCAL BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT OR AN LBTR AUTHORIZING THE OPERATION OF A BED AND BREAKFAST OR A B&B.

THE NEIGHBOR, EXCUSE ME, INCLUDED A LINK TO THE AIRBNB LISTING TITLED COASTAL CASITA B&B AMELIA ISLAND ADVERTISING THE ENTIRE HOME IN FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.

SEVEN GUESTS, THREE BEDROOMS, THREE BATHS FOR RENT.

AFTER CONDUCTING ONLINE RESEARCH, EVIDENCE REVEALED THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS ADVERTISED AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL, NOT A B&B. THE DISCREPANCY PROMPTED CODE ENFORCEMENT TO GO AHEAD AND ISSUE A NOTICE OF VIOLATION.

NOTICE OF HEARING LETTER JULY 2ND.

EXCUSE ME. I'M TRYING TO CATCH A CALL.

I'M FIGHTING A COLD.

JULY 2ND, 2024.

[00:20:01]

THROUGH THE QUESTIONS THAT I ASKED THEM, IT APPEARED THAT NO ONE WAS RESIDING THERE AND THEY TOLD ME THAT NO, NO IN-PERSON CONTACT HAD TAKEN PLACE SINCE THEY HAD ARRIVED.

JULY 11TH, 2024.

AFTER RESEARCHING SHORT TERM VACATION PROPERTY RENTAL WEBSITES, I FOUND THIS PROPERTY LISTED ON VRBO AVAILABLE TO RENT THE ENTIRE HOUSE FOR A MINIMUM NIGHT STAY SET AT THREE NIGHTS.

I HAVE CONTINUED TO RESEARCH THE SHORT TERM VACATION PROPERTY RENTAL WEBSITES AND HAVE INCLUDED ALL OF THE RENTAL ALL OF THE PRINTOUTS FROM THOSE VISITS FOR THE MOST PART.

NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED OVER THE MONTHS.

FOR THOSE ADVERTISEMENTS, I SENT OUT TWO NOTICES OF VIOLATION NOTICES OF HEARING LETTERS.

UNFORTUNATELY FOR FOR REASONS, THIS CASE COULD NOT BE HEARD AT THOSE HEARINGS ON SEPTEMBER 20TH, 2024.

I MET WITH MR. AND MRS. PINHO AND MISS BACH.

MISS PINHO HAD EXPLAINED THAT SHE DOES INDEED RESIDE AT 1015 LADIES STREET, BUT TRAVELS A GREAT DEAL.

WHEN SHE IS OUT OF TOWN OR OR THE COUNTRY FOR A MONTH OR MORE, SHE WILL RENT THE WHOLE HOUSE OUT, LOCK HER PERSONAL THINGS UP IN A CLOSET. SHE SAID THAT HER DRIVER'S LICENSE HAS LADIES STREET ADDRESS LISTED ON IT, AS WELL AS HER VOTER REGISTRATION, UTILITY BILLING, MORTGAGE STATEMENT, AND THE PROPERTY TAXES.

OCTOBER 3RD, 2024 I SENT OUT THE LAST NOTICE OF VIOLATION NOTICE OF HEARING LETTER.

FOR THIS CASE TO BE HEARD TONIGHT.

OCTOBER 14TH, 2024, I RESEARCHED THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL REGULATIONS, ALSO KNOWN AS DBPR WEBSITE FOR COASTAL CASITA AT 1015 LADIES STREET AND FOUND THEIR CURRENT BED AND BREAKFAST LICENSE.

I CONTACTED DB--EXCUSE ME.

I CONTACTED DBPR TO INQUIRE IF ONE COULD CONDUCT BUSINESS AT A PROPERTY AS A BED AND BREAKFAST INN, AND ALSO RENT OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AT OTHER TIMES FOR 30 DAYS.

I WAS TOLD THAT AN INSPECTION WOULD BE CONDUCTED AND THAT SOMEONE WOULD GET BACK WITH ME.

OCTOBER 15TH, 2024 I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM ROBERT PROTOMASTRO, DISTRICT MANAGER OF HOTELS AND RESTAURANTS, BSSI, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, DBPR.

HE STATED IN HIS EMAIL THAT BEING LICENSED AS A B&B AND RENTING OUT THE ENTIRE HOME IS OPERATING OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THEIR LICENSE AND ARE NOW OPERATING AS A VACATION RENTAL.

IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THEY APPLY FOR A VACATION RENTAL DWELLING LICENSE AND ONCE APPROVED, WOULD PLACE THE B AND B LICENSE OUT OF BUSINESS.

IN OLD TOWN, ALL VACATION RENTALS WOULD HAVE TO BE 30 DAYS OR MORE.

OCTOBER 17TH, 2024 MR. DENNIS PERRY, FLORIDA STATE INSPECTOR FOR EXCUSE ME WITH DBPR, CALLED TO INFORM ME THAT HE CONDUCTED HIS INSPECTION AND FOUND 1015 LADIES STREET IN VIOLATION.

THE PROPERTY NEEDS A DIFFERENT STATE LICENSE IS WHAT HE STATED.

THE LICENSE HAS HAS TO MOVE FROM B&B TO A VACATION DWELLING LICENSE.

THE REPORT IS ONLINE.

HE HAS CITED THEM AND PUT THEM ON WARNING.

THE CONCLUSION IS THAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO PLEASE CONSIDER THE NEIGHBOR'S TESTIMONY OF MISS--I'M GOING TO MESS UP YOUR NAME.

THANK YOU.

PINHO'S CONSISTENT ABSENCE FROM THE RESIDENCE WHILE MAKING YOUR DETERMINATION OF WHETHER THIS IS HER PRIMARY RESIDENCE.

IF THE RECOMMENDATION IS.

IF FOUND IN VIOLATION, THE PROPERTY OWNER SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A STATE VACATION RENTAL DWELLING LICENSE FOR RENTALS OF 30 DAYS OR MORE.

SUBMIT THE NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION TO THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, BRING THE PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE WITHIN 30 DAYS, AND ASSESS ADMINISTRATIVE

[00:25:03]

MADAM CHAIR THROUGH THROUGH THE CHAIR.

MAY I ADD TO THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT? OKAY. THANK YOU. SO SOME OF THOSE ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED AS THE FIRST ONE WHICH WAS TO SEEK A LICENSE.

IT IS THE PROPERTY OWNER REQUIRED TO GET A VACATION DWELLING PERMIT IF THEY'RE RENTING.

I MEAN, THE CITY DOESN'T ALLOW SHORT TERM OR VACATION RENTALS IN OLD TOWN IN THIS ZONING DISTRICT, SO YOU CAN'T GET A LICENSE FOR THE CITY TO BE OKAY WITH THE CITY. SO GETTING A LICENSE FROM THE STATE ISN'T REQUIRED BY US.

IS THAT RIGHT? OKAY.

SO IN ORDER TO GET WHAT THE STATE IS SAYING THAT THEY HAVE TO GET, AND THAT'S BETWEEN.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IT'S NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO OUR VIOLATION.

OKAY. I JUST CALL THAT A CURIOSITY.

THAT WASN'T FOR ANY OTHER REASON.

SO THAT IS BETWEEN I'M JUST STATING THAT IF IN FACT, IT GOES DOWN THAT ROAD FOR THEM.

THEY CAN ONLY RENT IT FOR 30 DAYS OR MORE.

THAT'S THE INFORMATION. THAT'S RIGHT.

OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.

SO THE FIRST ONE ABOUT THESE ARE THE RECOMMENDED ACTIONS FROM STAFF.

THERE'S FOUR OF THEM.

THE FIRST ONE IS TO GET A LICENSE FROM THE STATE, AND REALLY THE CITY'S POSITION IS THAT 'S NOT REQUIRED BY THE CITY CODE, AND IT'S REALLY NOT IN THE PURVIEW OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD TO ORDER THAT.

WHAT'S NUMBER TWO ON YOUR LIST? SO I WOULD DISREGARD THAT AS A RECOMMENDATION THAT IF THEY WERE TO DO THAT, THAT THEY WOULD SUBMIT THAT NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION. SO NUMBER TWO IS NOT NECESSARILY I'M NOT TRYING TO POKE HOLES IN YOUR CASE.

I'M TRYING TO SIMPLIFY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.

YEP, YOU'RE FINE. NUMBER TWO IS IS NOT RELEVANT EITHER AS A RECOMMENDATION, AND NUMBER THREE IS TO BRING THE PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE.

OKAY. DO YOU HAVE A DATE BY WHICH THEY NEED TO DO THAT AS A RECOMMEND.

30 DAYS WITHIN 30 DAYS FROM TONIGHT'S HEARING, AND THEN, NUMBER FOUR, TO ASSESS ADMINISTRATIVE FEES AND A DAILY FINE OF $100 UNTIL COMPLIANCE IS ACHIEVED.

SO AS WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IS PER CITY ORDINANCE, IF THE BOARD FINDS A VIOLATION TONIGHT AND FOLLOWS STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND PROVIDES 30 DAYS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE UPON FINDING A VIOLATION, THE ADMINISTRATIVE FEES ARE THEN DUE TO THE CITY. EVEN IF THE PROPERTY COMES INTO COMPLIANCE WITHIN THE NEXT 30 DAYS, THERE'S STILL BECAUSE THEY FIND VIOLATION FEES ARE THEN DUE.

I'M JUST KIND OF REMINDING THE BOARD AND THEN EXPLAINING IT TO THE PUBLIC.

THEN IF IT'S NOT IN, IF THE BOARD FINDS A VIOLATION, IT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE IN 30 DAYS, THEN THAT'S WHEN THE FINES START TO RUN IF THAT'S WHAT THEY FIND. SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE BOARD? NO, MA'AM, AND JUST TO CLARIFY, WE DON'T EVEN LOOK AT NUMBER 1 OR 2.

WE JUST LOOK AT THREE AND FOUR RECOMMENDATIONS AS RECOMMENDATIONS.

WHO AUTHORIZED OR APPROVED THIS DWELLING LICENSE? THE WHAT? WHO AUTHORIZES OR APPROVES THE DWELLING LICENSE.

SO MICHELLE WAS PROVIDING YOU WITH INFORMATION THAT SHE RECEIVED FROM THE STATE, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE IT, EVEN UNDER THE CITY'S CODES, IF YOU ARE OPERATING A BED AND BREAKFAST OR A B&B, IT IS REQUIRED TO BE REGISTERED WITH THE CITY AND TO HAVE A BUSINESS LICENSE OR A BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT.

RIGHT, AND SO THIS PROPERTY OWNER HAS A BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT THAT IS VALID AND IS CURRENT WITH THE CITY RIGHT NOW FOR A BED AND BREAKFAST, AND WHAT MICHELLE IS SAYING IS THAT IT IS NOT A BED AND BREAKFAST, THAT IT'S HER TESTIMONY TONIGHT, BASED ON WHAT SHE SAID AND THE DOCUMENTS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER DOES NOT RESIDE THERE, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOUR DECISION AND WHAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IS, DOES THE PROPERTY OWNER RESIDE THERE OR DOES SHE NOT RESIDE THERE? SO CAN I ASK A QUESTION? OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE A B&B OWNER, YOU HAVE TO LIVE THERE PART OF THE TIME.

IS THAT TRUE? OR YOU HAVE TO LIVE THERE ALL THE TIME, AND IF IT'S A VACATION RENTAL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY, FORGET VACATION RENTAL.

THAT'S SORT OF LIKE VACATION DWELLING OR VACATION DWELLING IS JUST ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR A TYPE OF BUSINESS AND RENTALS THAT THEY CANNOT DO IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THEY CONCEDE TO THAT IN OUR MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 20TH, THEY REALIZE THEY CANNOT DO VACATION RENTAL OR SHORT TERM RENTAL THAT'S NOT ALLOWED BY THE ZONING DISTRICT, BUT REMEMBER, OLD TOWN, I'LL JUST GIVE YOU JUST A SMIDGE OF HISTORY WHEN THE OLD TOWN REGULATIONS, GUIDELINES AND THEN THE CODE OT1 AND OT2 ARE THE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF ZONING CLASSIFICATIONS IN OLD TOWN, AND THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF WHAT ARE THE PERMISSIBLE USES.

[00:30:09]

SO THEY ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE SOME BUSINESS WITHIN WHAT WE KNOW AS A RESIDENTIAL AREA.

SO THAT'S HOW BED AND BREAKFASTS ARE ALLOWED IN THIS ZONING CATEGORY.

SO TONIGHT THE BOARD THE CITY'S TESTIMONY IS, IS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER, MISS MORIARTY PINHO, DOES NOT RESIDE AT THE PROPERTY, AND LIKE I SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR THEIR TESTIMONY NEXT, AND IT'S REALLY UP TO THE BOARD TO DECIDE.

VERY SIMPLY, DOES THE PROPERTY OWNER RESIDE THERE OR DOES NOT RESIDE THERE? AND I KNOW THAT MISS PRINCE, THE ATTORNEY FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, WILL CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG IF I'M OVERSIMPLIFYING IT, BUT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S WHERE IT IS.

WITH REGARD, MADAM CHAIR, TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE CODE, THE CODE DOES NOT DEFINE RESIDE, AND THERE'S NOTHING ELSE IN THAT SECTION THAT TELLS, IT CLARIFIES, ADDS TO, OR TELLS US WHAT IT MEANS TO RESIDE, AND JUST FOR THE BOARD'S BENEFIT, I'M GOING TO READ THAT SECTION OF THE CODE FOR IT'S A SUPPLEMENTAL USE THAT'S AUTHORIZED IN OT2, AND IT SAYS THAT THE OWNER OF A BED AND BREAKFAST INN SHALL RESIDE IN THE INN.

HOWEVER, WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL OWNS TWO OR MORE SUCH FACILITIES, OWNER OCCUPANCY SHALL BE REQUIRED IN ONE END, AND THAT'S THE ENTIRETY OF THE SECTION AS FAR AS REQUIREMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION FOR THIS CASE WAS TWO SIDES OF THE CODE, BUT BOTH OF IT WAS ABOUT THE OWNER MUST RESIDE OR STOP THE B&B OPERATION.

GREAT. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD FOR MISS FORSTROM? THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

RESPONSE? THROUGH THROUGH THE CHAIR, BUT AS FAR I THINK THAT MADAM ATTORNEY PRINCE HAS ASKED WHETHER SHE CAN ASK MICHELLE SOME QUESTIONS.

YEAH, I WAS ASKING IF ANYBODY HAD ANY QUESTIONS.

YEAH, PLEASE. IF THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE AT THIS TIME, DO YOU HAVE TO STAND UP AT THE PODIUM OR? YEAH, I'LL HAVE TO GET CLOSE TO THE SICK PERSON.

[CHUCKLING] COME ON. BLESS YOUR HEART.

I'M FIGHTING IT, MAN! MICHELLE, ONE OF THE THING'S THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD PROJECTING VOICE.

I DO. SO DO YOU, THERESA.

WE'RE ALL FRIENDS HERE. MICHELLE, WHAT I NORMALLY DO IS SORT OF WHERE YOU ARE.

LEAN THERE ON THAT, AND THEN THERESA CAN ASK HER QUESTIONS THROUGH THE MIC.

I CAN ASK PEOPLE WHO KNOW ME WELL AT THE BACK OF THE ROOM.

YEAH, I THINK WE BOTH ARE KNOWN TO PROJECT VERY WELL.

GO AHEAD. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

THERESA PRINCE, TOMASETTI AND PRINCE, 303 SUITE 203, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.

I AM THE ATTORNEY FOR THE RESPONDENT, MICHAEL AND CATHERINE PINHO AND I JUST WANTED TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS OF MICHELLE AND THEN GET SOME CLARITY ON THE REST OF THE TESTIMONY FOR TONIGHT, AND I'M SORRY, MRS. FORSTROM, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE UPDATE ON THE STATE LICENSE THAT WE RECEIVED AT, LIKE, 4:00 TODAY? HAVE YOU HAD A MINUTE TO SEE ANY INFORMATION, ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THAT? YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE DEFINITIONS AND SUCH? NO, NO, NO, THERE WAS LATE TODAY, LIKE AN HOUR WITHIN THE LAST HOUR BEFORE THE HEARING STARTED.

NO, I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO.

SO I'M GOING TO HAND YOU THIS SO YOU CAN JUST IDENTIFY IT FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE ONE FOR EVERYONE.

IT'S GOING TO BE PART OF MY PRESENTATION AS WELL, AND I'VE HIGHLIGHTED IN AND PUT AN ASTERISK NEXT TO THE AREAS THAT I'D LIKE YOU TO READ.

OKAY. SO THE FIRST ASTERISK UNDER WE HAD A VIOLATION FOR A BACKFLOW PREVENTER, AND CAN YOU READ FOR US THE STATUSES OF OF THAT INSPECTION AS OF TODAY? YES. FROM FOLLOW UP INSPECTION, 2024-11-07 BACKFLOW PREVENTER IN PLACE.

COMPLIED. OKAY, AND THEN THE SECOND ONE, WHICH I THINK IS A LITTLE MORE RELEVANT FOR TONIGHT.

A WARNING HAD BEEN ISSUED REGARDING THEIR STATE LICENSURE, AND I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED AN ASTERISK THAT FOR YOUR REVIEW AS WELL.

COULD YOU READ THAT INTO THE RECORD FOR US? FROM FOLLOW UP INSPECTION 2024-11-7, ESTABLISHMENT PROVIDED INFORMATION THAT PROPERTY IS LOCALLY RECOGNIZED AS A BED AND BREAKFAST, AND ESTABLISHMENT SHOWS OTHER ADVERTISING ON SITES LIKE BOOKING.COM, ROOMS OR INDIVIDUALLY RENTED OUT.

THIS INFORMATION PROVIDED ALLOWS INSPECTORS TO COMPLY VIOLATION AND NO LICENSE STATUS NEEDS TO CHANGE.

B&B LICENSE IS CORRECT.

[00:35:01]

VERY GOOD. [INAUDIBLE] THANK YOU. THANK YOU, AND I'D LIKE TO ENTER THAT INTO THE RECORD.

NOW WE'LL DO THAT AS PART OF OUR PRESENTATION AS WELL.

I HAVE PROVIDED A COPY TO MS. BEST, BUT MAY, MADAM CHAIR, THAT BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD, THE VIOLATION? YES. THE UPDATE TO THE STATE INSPECTION THAT I PASSED OUT.

OKAY. THANK YOU, AND THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD FOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IS HER STAFF REPORT.

WE GRAB IT, SO DON'T MISQUOTE, AND THIS MIGHT BE A QUESTION FOR TAMMY AS WELL.

WHAT SHE'S ASKED YOU TO DO IS CONSIDER THE NEIGHBOR'S TESTIMONY AS TO MRS. PINHO'S CONSISTENT ABSENCE FROM THE RESIDENCE WHILE MAKING YOUR DETERMINATION OF WHETHER OR NOT SHE RESIDES IN THE END.

NOW, SHE CALLED IT PRIMARY RESIDENCE, BUT AS MR. POOLE HAS POINTED OUT, IT SAYS THAT YOU SHALL RESIDE IN THE END.

SO THIS IS JUST A POINT OF ORDER.

I MEAN, I WOULD THINK AT THIS POINT THOSE NEIGHBORS SHOULD TESTIFY NOW.

I MEAN, SHE'S ASKING THEM TO RELY ON THEIR TESTIMONY RATHER THAN ME PRESENTING MY CASE, AND THEN YOU OPEN IT TO PUBLIC HEARING.

I MEAN, SHE'S SPECIFICALLY ASKING, AND IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? YOU ARE YOU RELYING ON THE NEIGHBORS' TESTIMONY AS TO WHETHER OR NOT MY CLIENT RESIDES? I WELL, I GUESS I AM.

THIS THIS ALL CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF THEIR COMPLAINTS.

SO THEY, THEY ARE MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT SHE DOES NOT LIVE THERE, AND IF THAT IS THEIR IMPRESSION THEN I THINK THAT THEY, THAT THEY SHOULD SPEAK, THAT THEY SHOULD TELL US WHY THEY DO NOT THINK THAT SHE LIVES THERE.

CORRECT, AND SO I'M JUST ASKING FOR THE ORDER OF THAT I WOULD THAT BE PART OF THIS TESTIMONY? IT DOES NOT MATTER.

IT DOES NOT MATTER TO ME, AND SO IT'S UP TO THE CHAIR, BUT IF IT'S GOING TO BE TESTIMONY THAT YOU'RE RELYING ON.

ARE THE NEIGHBORS HERE THIS EVENING? YEAH. LET'S GO AHEAD. WE'LL JUST CALL THEM AS OUR WITNESSES AND THEN WE'LL DO OUR PRESENTATION.

YES, PLEASE. I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER.

I'M WORKING ON IT. I'M WORKING ON IT, AND IF YOU DO, I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO COME BACK UP AND ANSWER.

I KNOW A COUPLE OF I KNOW A COUPLE OF THE OLD TOWN RESIDENTS THAT ARE HERE, BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS, IF YOU WISH TO TESTIFY, IF YOU WOULD GO TO THE PODIUM ONE AT A TIME AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND THEN IF YOU WOULD GO AHEAD AND SAY WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY, AS LONG AS YOU TOOK THE OATH, AND IF YOU DIDN'T, WE CAN DO THAT REAL QUICK, BUT IT'S JUST IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, TECHNICAL STUFF ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO SPEAK AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT.

SO THERE WASN'T ANY OBJECTION FROM MISS PRINCE, AND SO IT'S JUST AS WELL THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING DURING OUR CASE, WHICH IS THE PROSECUTION, IF YOU WILL.

SO ONE AT A TIME, IF YOU WOULD GO UP AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND JUST GO AHEAD AND SPEAK, IF IT PLEASES THE BOARD, AND IF I HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL LET YOU KNOW.

YOU CAN GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, SIR.

MY NAME IS TANDY MORTON.

I LIVE AT 1003 LADIES STREET NEXT DOOR.

I'M CONFUSED ABOUT WHY WE'RE HERE.

BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MANY YEARS.

MORE THAN TWO YEARS AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL, AND THERE'S BEEN MULTIPLE.

THERE'S BEEN A NOTEBOOK OF COMPLAINTS BECAUSE IT WAS SHORT TERM RENTAL, AND THIS PRECEDED MAYBE SIX WEEKS AGO OR SO, I STOPPED BY AND VISITED WITH MISS PINHO, WHO DID NOT KNOW ME.

DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS.

SHE TOLD ME THAT THEY COULD DO ANYTHING THEY WANTED WARRANTED BECAUSE THEY WERE A BED AND BREAKFAST NOW AND I WAS BOWLED OVER.

I COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE CAPTAIN CAVANAUGH, WHO'S TRIED TO KEEP LADIES STREET AS WELL AS A BIG PORTION OF OLD TOWN AND STATING, I MEAN, IN STANDING WITH THE HISTORIC REGISTER OF THAT IT IS AND.

I GUESS I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE EVEN HERE BECAUSE THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED A LONG TIME AGO.

DURING THAT TIME, I WORKED AT OLD TOWN BAIT AND TACKLE, WHICH IS ACROSS THE STREET.

I HAD TO GO TO WORK AT 6:00 IN THE MORNING, SO I WALKED EITHER THROUGH THEIR YARD OR ACROSS THE STREET EVERY MORNING GOING TO WORK AT 6 A.M.

BUT PRIOR TO 6 A.M., AND SHE'S NOT THERE.

THEY'RE NOT THERE.

THE RENTALS ARE MAYBE 3 OR 4 DAYS, MAYBE A WEEK, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU

[00:40:08]

I COULD GO ON.

IF YOU HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED THERE? FOUR YEARS.

OKAY, SIR.

HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT SHE WAS NOT IN RESIDENCE? WELL, LIGHTS ARE OUT.

CARS ARE GONE.

WHEN SOMEBODY RENTS THE HOUSE, THEY DRIVE UP AND, AND I'LL SAY A WHITE CAR.

I BELIEVE HER CAR IS SILVER.

IF THERE'S ONLY ONE WHITE CAR THERE FOR A WEEK.

DEDUCTIVE REASONING MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, EITHER SHE WALKED THERE OR RODE HER BICYCLE OR SHE'S NOT THERE.

IT'S OLD TOWN.

EVERYBODY KNOWS EVERYBODY.

THE NEIGHBORS KNOW WHERE THE KEY TO MY HOUSE IS IF I'M NOT THERE.

THEY KNOW WHAT I HAD FOR BREAKFAST.

PROBABLY BECAUSE IT'S A UNIQUE LITTLE NEIGHBORHOOD.

EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT'S EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS.

IT'S A LITTLE MAYBERRY.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I DON'T. THANK YOU SIR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MISS PRINCE, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? I DO, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. HELLO, SIR, I'M THERESA PRINCE.

JUST FOR THE RECORD, I'VE ALREADY GIVEN MY NAME AND ADDRESS, AND I BELIEVE YOU DID AS WELL.

I DID, YES, AND SO, AS A BED AND BREAKFAST FACILITY.

YOU'VE TESTIFIED TO CARS AND STUFF BEING THERE.

DO YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE LESS PEOPLE THERE IF IT WAS OPERATED? I MEAN, IT IS A BED AND BREAKFAST.

PEOPLE ARE COMING AND GOING.

SO DO YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE LESS TRAFFIC IF IT WAS OPERATED AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL? I MEAN, I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR COMPLAINT.

MY COMPLAINT IS IT'S RENTED.

IT'S RENTED, AND WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE A BED AND BREAKFAST? SHORT TERM. WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE A BED AND BREAKFAST? WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE ROOMS? DO YOU RENT THEM? DO I? WELL, IF A PERSON HAS A BED AND BREAKFAST.

OKAY. WHAT DO THEY DO WITH THE ROOMS? OKAY. I'VE TRAVELED ALL OVER THE WORLD.

SEVEN CONTINENTS.

50 STATES.

YEP. WHAT HAPPENS IN A BED AND BREAKFAST? DO YOU RENT ONE? I'VE STAYED IN MANY BED AND BREAKFAST.

DO YOU RENT A ROOM? I HAVE BREAKFAST, YEAH.

OKAY. WE HAVE BREAKFAST. I ASKED ABOUT BREAKFAST.

I SAID, YOU DON'T EVEN COOK.

SHE SAID, WELL, I CAN HAVE IT CATERED.

YEAH, AND WE'LL GET INTO ALL OF THAT.

YES. THE STATE LAW AND THE CITY'S CODE REQUIRE THE STATE LAW REQUIRES THAT SHE PROVIDE SOME SORT OF BREAKFAST AND IT CAN BE PACKAGED.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE A LICENSE, BUT YOU RENT ROOMS. SO AT A BED AND BREAKFAST, YOU WOULD RENT OUT THE ROOMS, CORRECT? THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY, AND SO YOUR COMPLAINT IS THAT YOU JUST DON'T THINK SHE'S THERE, NOT THAT THEY'RE BEING RENTED.

CAN YOU RENT A BED AND BREAKFAST ROOM FOR THREE NIGHTS? YES OR NO? WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME? WELL, BECAUSE YOU'RE TESTIFYING.

SO I GET TO CROSS-EXAMINE YOU.

CAN YOU RENT A BED AND BREAKFAST FOR THREE NIGHTS? I WOULD IMAGINE SO.

OKAY. IF I WANTED TO, AND MY PLASTIC CARD WOULD HOLD UP, I WOULD RENT IT FOR THREE NIGHTS.

[CHUCKLING] I GET THAT, AND THEN WE GET THOSE POINTS.

OKAY. SO I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, I MEAN, THE OPERATION OF IT OTHER THAN HER, YOU BELIEVING SHE DOESN'T RESIDE THERE, IT DOESN'T OPERATE.

I KNOW SHE DOESN'T. I WOULD QUESTION THAT; THERE'S NO WAY FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT.

I LIVE NEXT DOOR. YEAH.

THAT'S TRUE. IF I LIVED NEXT DOOR TO YOU, WOULD I KNOW YOU LIVE THERE? WE WILL BE OFFERING SOME TESTIMONY AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WE KNOW ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR HOUSE, BUT THAT'S OKAY.

OKAY. SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THAT IT'S BEING RENTED.

IT'S NOT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE FOR THREE NIGHTS.

IT'S THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT SHE DOESN'T LIVE THERE BECAUSE AS A BED AND BREAKFAST, IT WOULD BE RENTED.

IT WOULD HAVE PEOPLE COMING AND GOING.

IT WOULD HAVE THE ROOMS RENTED.

SO THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

I MEAN, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ISSUE IS, IS THAT IT'S RENTED AND THEIR CAR'S THERE.

THE ISSUE IS YOU DON'T BELIEVE SHE RESIDES THERE.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT QUALIFIES TO BE A BED AND BREAKFAST.

OKAY. OKAY.

THANK YOU, AND HISTORIC DISTRICT.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT MR. POOLE SAID THAT YOU CAN.

HOW DO YOU SAY IT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE THERE IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN TWO PROPERTIES.

DOES THAT MEAN IF YOU HAVE A PROPERTY IN COLORADO AND YOU GOT ONE IN FERNANDINA, YOU CAN BE AT ONE OR THE OTHER? IT DOESN'T CLARIFY WHAT IT IS, WHAT STATE IT'S IN, OR WHAT CITY IT'S IN, OR WHAT STREET IT'S ON.

NO. SO THERE'S LOTS OF HOLES IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS.

[00:45:01]

MADAM CHAIR.

YES. I THINK WE'RE DONE, BUT I DO WANT TO CLARIFY FOR THE RECORD, ARE BED AND BREAKFAST LEGAL AND OT2? THEY'RE A PERMISSIBLE USE IN OT2.

IS THAT A QUESTION TO ME? YES, TO ANYONE.

YES. IT IS A PERMISSIBLE USE IN OT2, BED AND BREAKFAST.

MAY I CONTINUE MY ANSWER? THERE IS A DEFINITION OF BED AND BREAKFAST INN IN THE CODE.

CHAPTER ONE I'M GOING TO BRING IT UP INSTEAD OF LETTING EVERYBODY GET DIZZY WITH ME DOING IT ON THE SCREEN THERE.

I'M GOING TO BRING IT UP RIGHT HERE.

THANK YOU SIR. IF YOU'D LIKE TO SIT DOWN, YOU CAN ALWAYS COME BACK.

OKAY, AND I WILL PROJECT IT AS SOON AS I GET IT.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

DOESN'T USE THE TERM RESIDE, BUT I THINK IT'S RELEVANT TO OUR.

DISCUSSION. SO, WHO HAS AUTHORITY? IT APPEARS THAT THE DBPR SAID THIS IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH BEING A B&B.

IS THAT CORRECT? ACCORDING TO THE STATE LAWS, YES.

DOES THAT SUPERSEDE ANYTHING IN THE CITY? NO. THE CITY HAS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LAYER IN ORDER TO DO IT.

OBVIOUSLY THE STATE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE STATE IN ORDER TO GET A CITY LICENSE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS THE STATE CAN ISSUE BASED ON THEIR RULES OF VACATION, DWELLING OR RESORT RENTAL, SHORT TERM RENTAL LICENSE, AND IT NOT BE ALLOWED IN THAT ZONING CATEGORY, AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE HERE, IS WE HAVE A THE CITY IS THEIR CASE IS THAT SHE DOES NOT RESIDE THERE.

WHICH IS RESIDENCE? B&BS ARE ALLOWED, ACCORDING TO THE CITY, BUT IT'S THE FACT THAT THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT RESIDING THERE.

GOT IT. THANK YOU. KELLY, THIS WAS IN CHAPTER ONE, RIGHT? OKAY. SO IN CHAPTER ONE OF THE CODE, THERE IS AT THE VERY END, I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE YOU BRING IT UP.

I WILL BRING IT UP. THERE IS A SECTION OF DEFINITIONS AND THOSE DEFINITIONS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.

THERE'S A BED AND BREAKFAST ONE IN JUST A SECOND.

PAGE 11. PAGE 11.

OH WELL THAT DOESN'T HELP.

MEANING THAT I KNOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET TO PAGE 11 MORE QUICKLY.

OKAY. OKAY.

IF YOU COULD SEE IN THE VERY MIDDLE.

THANK YOU. SO IN THE VERY MIDDLE THERE IS BED AND BREAKFAST INN, AND THE DEFINITION IS MEANS AN OWNER OCCUPIES OWNER OCCUPIED RESIDENCE OFFERING GUEST ROOMS AND ABBREVIATED BREAKFAST SERVICE.

SO I'M NOT BEING EXTREMELY ARGUMENTATIVE HERE, BUT THAT WAS NOT PART OF MISS FORSTROM'S TESTIMONY, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT RESIDE, AND SO I WANTED THE BOARD TO HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THIS DEFINITION AS WELL.

GREAT. THANK YOU.

DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER WITNESSES, NEIGHBOR WITNESSES THAT WOULD LIKE TO TESTIFY? ANYBODY ELSE FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? YEAH. I WASN'T SWORN IN.

SO CAN YOU GO AHEAD THEN AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE FACTUAL STATEMENTS AND REPRESENTATIONS WHICH YOU ARE ABOUT TO PRESENT TO THIS BOARD DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE TRUTHFUL AND ACCURATE? I DO. THANK YOU.

CONNIE CHAPMAN.

EXCUSE ME. I HAVE A LITTLE LARYNGITIS, BUT I'LL TRY TO BE HEARD.

MY ADDRESS IS 1017 SAN FERNANDO AND FERNANDINA, AND OUR RESIDENCE IS IN THE SAME PLACE THAT THE PINHO'S IS ONLY ONE BLOCK AWAY.

SO I'M IN THE SAME LOCATION.

THEY ARE ONLY SAN FERNANDO AS OPPOSED TO LADIES STREET.

NOT THIS, NOT THIS YEAR, BUT THE YEAR BEFORE.

TESTIFY AND ADDRESS THE BOARD.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. EVEN THOUGH I MAY ASK YOU QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU. YEAH, NOT THIS YEAR, BUT THE YEAR BEFORE.

I HAD A FRIEND CALL ME AND ASKED ME IF THERE WAS ANYWHERE THAT SHE COULD RENT.

IN OLD TOWN, I HAD.

I HAVEN'T LIVED HERE ALL THAT LONG.

I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE RULES AND REGULATIONS ARE, BUT I DID KNOW THAT THERE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE RENT.

I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE B&B THING, BUT I DID KNOW THAT ANYTHING LESS THAN A 30 DAY RENTAL IN OLD TOWN WAS NOT PERMITTED.

I ALSO KNEW THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE IN AND OUT OF PINHO'S HOUSE.

I HAD NO IDEA. I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT WHETHER IT WAS LEGAL OR NOT OR A CODE VIOLATION.

SO THERE WERE PEOPLE THERE AT THE TIME IN PINHO'S HOME, AND SO I TOLD MY FRIEND, HEY, I KNOW A PLACE THAT'S A RENTAL HERE, BUT I KNOW THEIR NAME, BUT I DON'T KNOW THEIR PHONE NUMBER, BUT THERE'S PEOPLE IN THAT HOUSE RIGHT NOW, SO I'LL GO DOWN THERE, AND THIS WAS EARLY MORNING.

LIKE I'M GOING TO SAY MAYBE NOT REAL EARLY.

[00:50:01]

I ASKED THEM IF THEY HAD THE PHONE NUMBER FOR THE PINHO'S AND THEIR REACTION WAS, PINHO'S? I SAID YES, THE PEOPLE WHO OWN AND RENT THIS HOUSE OUT.

OH YEAH, WE HAVE A NUMBER FOR THIS HOUSE, AND SHE GAVE ME THE NUMBER, AND SO I SAID, OKAY, THANKS.

DIDN'T THINK MUCH OF IT.

AS I WAS LEAVING, SHE SAID TO ME, CAN YOU RECOMMEND A GOOD PLACE FOR BREAKFAST IN TOWN? BECAUSE WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GO.

WE'D LIKE TO GO WHERE THE LOCALS GO.

SO I SAID, [INAUDIBLE].

THAT TELLS ME THAT THE PINHO'S WERE NOT PROVIDING BREAKFAST LIKE A B&B WOULD.

I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS CODE ISSUE, OR I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS BEING PURSUED UNTIL WE CAME BACK FROM MINNESOTA A FEW DAYS AGO. GREAT.

THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? SO HAS THERE BEEN ONGOING TRAFFIC IN AND OUT OF HERE LATELY OR CONSTANTLY? YES. AMOUNTS OF VEHICLES.

PEOPLE. WHAT? WELL, I CAN'T I DON'T ALWAYS KNOW ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE THERE.

MOSTLY WHAT I SEE OF THAT HOUSE IS WHEN I'M OUT WALKING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

YEAH. THERE ARE FREQUENTLY PERIODS OF TIME WHEN IT APPEARS THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOBODY THERE.

LIKE MAYBE 2 OR 3 WEEKS AT A TIME BUT THERE'S ALSO TIMES WHEN THERE WILL BE A CAR THERE FOR 2 OR 3 DAYS, AND THEN A FEW DAYS LATER THERE'S A DIFFERENT CAR THERE FOR 2 OR 3 DAYS.

THESE PEOPLE THAT I SPOKE TO THAT WERE THERE FOR QUITE A LONG TIME, A YEAR AGO, LAST WINTER, HAD NEVER MET THE PINHO'S.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHO I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

SO I'M JUST CURIOUS.

DID YOU GIVE YOUR FRIEND THE PHONE NUMBER? I DID, AND DID YOUR FRIEND CALL? AND HOW DID THAT ALL WORK OUT? THEY. I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE MADE THE DECISION, BUT SHE DECIDED TO GO TO PALM BEACH INSTEAD.

OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE MS. PRINCE? I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU. THERESA PRINCE, AGAIN.

I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU, JUST FOR THE RECORD AND CLARITY, THE TIME THAT YOU WENT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT IN THE CAR HAD BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME.

YOU STATED IT WAS LAST YEAR.

SO DO YOU BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2023? NO, I THINK IT WAS 2022.

IT WAS. IT WAS A YEAR AGO LAST WINTER.

OH, OKAY. OKAY. SO IN 2022.

OKAY, AND THAT'S JUST RELEVANT BECAUSE THEIR B&B LICENSE IS MUCH MORE RECENT, AND SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTOOD THE TIME PERIOD THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

THANK YOU. I'M TALKING ABOUT.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU MA'AM. APPRECIATE IT.

ANY OTHER WITNESSES? NEIGHBORS? YES, MA'AM.

COME ON UP, AND WERE YOU SWORN IN, MA'AM? JENNIFER HARRISON, 800 [INAUDIBLE] STREET IN OLD TOWN.

I HEARD ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE RENTING OUT ON A SHORT TERM, AND I DECIDED, WELL, I NEED TO KNOW FOR SURE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, AND I KNOCKED AT THE DOOR AND SAID, HELLO, ARE YOU THE OWNERS? THEY SAID, OH NO, WE'RE JUST RENTING IT FOR A FEW DAYS, AND I THOUGHT, OH, WELL, MAYBE THAT'S A ONE OFF, AND I CAME BACK LATER AND KNOCKED AGAIN, BUT A DIFFERENT FEW DAYS LATER AND IT WAS SOME DIFFERENT PEOPLE THERE AND THEY WERE SAYING, NO, WE'RE JUST WE'RE STAYING FOR A FEW SHORT DAYS, AND THEN MRS. PINHO HAD HEARD THAT FROM THESE PEOPLE THAT I'D BEEN ASKING ABOUT IT, AND SHE CAME ROUND TO MY HOME AND SHOWED ME HER CERTIFICATE AS SHE WAS IN OLD TOWN TWO, AND SHE THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS ENTITLED TO DO THAT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, AS I SAID TO HER, WE DO NOT HAVE SHORT TERM RENTALS IN OLD TOWN.

NOT IN OLD TOWN AT ALL, AND SO IT WAS LEFT LIKE THAT.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? EXCUSE ME. EXCUSE ME.

COME ON BACK. ALL RIGHT.

EXCUSE ME. HOW LONG AGO WAS THIS? OH, A FEW WEEKS AGO, MAYBE.

FAIRLY RECENTLY. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

I'M SORRY. MY QUESTION. MA'AM.

MA'AM. MA'AM. JENNIFER.

JENNIFER, COME ON BACK.

[00:55:01]

I CAN'T ESCAPE THAT EASILY.

SORRY. YEAH. WOULD YOU RECOGNIZE THE PINHO'S? I'M SORRY, I'M LOSING MY HEARING AS I GET OLDER.

WOULD YOU RECOGNIZE MISS PINHO'S CAR IF YOU SAW IT? I'M NOT SURE THAT I WOULD, QUITE HONESTLY, I THINK IT'S [INAUDIBLE].

OKAY. OKAY.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW. THAT'S FINE.

NO, I DON'T KNOW.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

I THINK IT'S A [INAUDIBLE].

OKAY. MR. PRINCE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MISS JENNIFER? GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.

MA'AM. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER NEIGHBORS WISH TO TESTIFY? ANYBODY ELSE? ANY OTHERS? THE CITY RESTS.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER WITNESSES.

GREAT. THANK YOU.

DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO. NO. NO. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR THE OWNERS, IF I MAY.

YEAH. WE HAVE A PRESENTATION.

HAVE YOU GOT A PRESENTATION? YEAH. MICHELLE, YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD.

OKAY. WE'RE GOOD. OKAY.

THANK YOU. I'VE GOT A YES AND A NO.

MISS PRINCE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT? YES. THANK YOU.

I'M GOING TO MOVE THIS DOWN.

I'M NOT AS TALL AS MICHELLE.

I HAVE ALREADY STATED MY NAME FOR THE RECORD.

THERESA PRINCE, TOMASSETTI AND PRINCE, 303 CENTER STREET, SUITE 203, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.

MY CLIENTS, WHEN THEY GET UP TO TESTIFY OR BE ASKED QUESTIONS BY THE BOARD, THEY WILL GIVE THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS.

FOR THE RECORD, SOME OTHER HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS I WANTED TO GO THROUGH THAT I WENT THROUGH WITH THE CHAIR'S PERMISSION.

I SPOKE WITH MR. POOLE AND MISS BOURQUE TODAY ABOUT A FEW ITEMS THAT I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY FOR THE RECORD.

ONE IS, DOES THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO REVOKE THE VALID LTR LICENSE OF THIS BED AND BREAKFAST? TO CLARIFY, THAT'S THE CITY'S BUSINESS LICENSE? YEAH, THAT IS THE CITY'S BUSINESS LICENSE.

DOES THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD TONIGHT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO REVOKE THAT LICENSE? NO. OKAY.

CAN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD ISSUE A CEASE AND DESIST OF OPERATING A BED AND BREAKFAST TONIGHT? NO. OKAY.

SO, AND THEN, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT TONIGHT, I THINK WHAT THE LAWYERS HAVE AGREED TO AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF THE WORD RESIDE. THERE'S NO DEFINITION IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR THE WORD RESIDE, OR ANYWHERE IN THE CITY'S CODE THAT I SAW, BUT RIGHT AND THEN OWNER OCCUPIED IS PART OF THE DEFINITION, BUT THERE'S NO DEFINITION FOR THAT EITHER.

WHEN YOU GO TO THE BED AND BREAKFAST UNDER CHAPTER ONE, THERE'S NO DEFINITION, AND I ASKED THAT BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS YOU'RE BEING REQUIRED TO, YOU KNOW, SHE'S ASKING YOU TO REQUEST THAT WE GET A LICENSE WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN HANDLED.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO STATE LICENSE FOR THIS, AND SO WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE I PRESENTED TONIGHT IS WHAT EXACTLY YOUR AUTHORITY WAS AND WHAT THE OUTCOME COULD BE AND SO AS I UNDERSTAND MICHELLE'S PRESENTATION NOW, SHE'S LOOKING FOR COMPLIANCE WITHIN 30 DAYS, POTENTIALLY FINES IF WE DON'T COMPLY, AND THEN, AS TAMMI HAS SAID, THERE WILL BE ADMINISTRATIVE FINES IF WE'RE FOUND OUT OF COMPLIANCE, THAT'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TONIGHT.

YES, AND SO THE ONLY QUESTION TONIGHT IS WHETHER OR NOT MY CLIENT MEETS THE SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARD OF RESIDE IN THE INN.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS THE ONLY THING WE'RE DECIDING TONIGHT.

DOES SHE RESIDE IN THE INN OR DOES SHE VIOLATE THAT SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARD? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, RIGHT? YES. OKAY. OKAY, AND SO THERE'S NO DEFINITION, AND SO THAT'S WHY WHEN I HAND THINGS OUT, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS HAPPENING TONIGHT.

BECAUSE YOU THEY DO HAVE A PROPERLY ISSUED LETTER.

IT'S THE GOOD OLD OCCUPATIONAL LICENSE.

I DO HAVE SOME ITEMS TO ENTER INTO THE RECORD WITH THE CONSENT OF THE CHAIR, AND I HAVE MY PRESENTATION THAT I CAN HAND OUT TO YOU.

IT WAS SENT AN AMENDED REPORT WAS SENT TODAY, AND I HAVE ITEMS ONE THROUGH NINE THAT ARE LABELED EXHIBITS B THROUGH J THAT NEED TO BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.

I HAVE PROVIDED THEM TO THE CLERK, AND I'VE PROVIDED THEM TO THE COURT REPORTER WHO'S HERE.

ARE THERE COPIES FOR ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS? OKAY. SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS AT THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD BEFORE I HAND OUT THESE TREES.

WE DID SEND YOU OUR AMENDED RESPONSE TO THE STAFF REPORT LAST NIGHT.

DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE IT OR WOULD YOU LIKE A COPY OF IT? BECAUSE I HAVE IT RIGHT HERE, IF YOU'D LIKE IT.

I GOT IT TODAY ABOUT 4:30, WHICH DIDN'T GIVE US A LOT OF TIME.

OH, NO. THE AMENDED ONE WENT OUT AT 1:30, BUT IT DIDN'T GIVE YOU A LOT OF TIME.

YOU'RE CORRECT. WE DID.

WE ALSO PROVIDED A RED LINE WITH IT, AND I DIDN'T BRING THAT TONIGHT JUST SO YOU'D BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT I CHANGED, BUT I'VE ALREADY GIVEN THIS TO THE CLERK,

[01:00:07]

OKAY. THANK YOU, AND THEN, YES, I HAVE ALL MY BACKUP.

I HAVE THIS IF ANYBODY WANTS IT.

I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXTRAS TODAY.

IT'S A PUBLIC RECORD.

ANYTHING I ENTER INTO THE RECORD TONIGHT IF WE DON'T HAVE EXTRA COPIES FOR THE NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE CITY.

SO EXHIBIT A IS JUST THE MOST RECENT CODE ENFORCEMENT VIOLATION LETTER THAT'S DATED OCTOBER 3RD.

I HAVE COPIES OF THAT WE'D LIKE TO BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.

EXHIBIT B IN OUR PACKET IS HER VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE WITH AN ADDRESS OF LADIES STREET THAT WAS ISSUED OCTOBER OF 2022.

THAT'S EXHIBIT B, WE'D LIKE THAT.

ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.

WE HAVE HER CONFIRMATION OF HER VOTER'S REGISTRATION CARD THAT SAYS THAT SHE RESIDES AT 1015 LADIES STREET.

SHE VOTES AT MLK.

OKAY, THAT'S EXHIBIT C THAT WE WOULD LIKE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.

WE HAVE EXHIBIT D AS IN DOG, HER UTILITY BILLING STATEMENTS WITH THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.

HER MORTGAGE STATEMENT THAT HAS BEEN REDACTED FOR PRIVACY AS EXHIBIT E AS IN ELEPHANT.

WE HAVE HER TRIM NOTICE TRUTH IN MILLAGE.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

THAT'S EXHIBIT F THAT REFLECTS THAT IS HER PROPERTY, THE SITUS OF HER PROPERTY AND HER 1015 LADIES STREET ADDRESS.

THE TAX COLLECTORS WEBSITE EXHIBIT G ALSO SHOWS THAT SHE OWNS THE PROPERTY, AND IT HAS IT AS HER PROPERTY ADDRESS AND HER SITE ADDRESS. SHE HAS A BANK STATEMENT.

NAVY CREDIT FEDERAL UNION FOR HER BANK ACCOUNT THAT HAS HER ADDRESS AS 1015 LADIES STREET .

THAT'S EXHIBIT H.

THEN WE HAVE HER CURRENT AND VALID STATE LICENSE WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA, WHICH IS EXHIBIT I.

HER CURRENT AND VALID INVALID BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT, WHICH WE CALL A BUSINESS LICENSE HERE IN THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH FOR A BUSINESS BED AND BREAKFAST. NO COOKING ON SITE, PACKAGED FOOD, ONLY THREE ROOMS, AND THAT'S EXHIBIT J.

EXHIBIT K IS NOT AS NECESSARY, BUT IT WAS THE OH NO EXHIBIT K IS HER UPDATED LISTINGS THAT WILL REFER TO IN OUR PRESENTATION BECAUSE MRS. PINHO WOULD TESTIFY, AND WE'LL SHOW YOU THAT SHE HAS UPDATED HER LISTINGS.

EXHIBIT L IS HER REGISTRY OF GUESTS AND THE NIGHTS THAT THEY'VE STAYED AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO TESTIFY TONIGHT ABOUT SOME FUTURE PLANS.

SO WE DO HAVE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR FUTURE PLANS, AND I CAN HAND THAT OUT AS WELL.

SO ALL THE EXHIBITS ARE HERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THEM ELECTRONICALLY, BUT I'M HAPPY TO PASS THEM OUT.

MR. POOLE, ARE THESE IS IT OKAY IF WE TAKE THESE INTO THE RECORD? I WAS GOING TO SAY IT'S YOUR PLEASURE SUBJECT TO ANY OBJECTIONS FROM THE CITY.

SO IF YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND RECEIVE THEM INTO EVIDENCE, YOU MAY DO SO NOW.

DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH? NO OBJECTION. OKAY.

ANY FROM THE BOARD? ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT RECEIVING THESE DOCUMENTS? NO OBJECTIONS. JUST WANTED TO CHECK.

OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MADAM CHAIR, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO HAND ALL OF THEM OUT, OR DO YOU WANT ME TO JUST HAND THEM TO YOU AS WE USE THEM? WHAT WOULD YOU. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE ELECTRONICALLY, SO I DON'T WANT TO OVER-PAPER YOU; IF YOU NEED THEM, I HAVE THEM.

YOU HAVE THEM AS REFERENCE.

I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

DOES ANYBODY FROM THE BOARD WISH TO SEE SPECIFIC DOCUMENTS OR.

MR. POOLE, DO YOU REQUEST TO SEE ANYTHING THAT THEY HAVE? I DON'T NEED TO SEE THEM.

OKAY. YEAH, BUT YOU HAVE IT ELECTRONICALLY AND I RECEIVED THE EMAIL, SO.

OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. YEAH.

OKAY. SO KEEP THEM REFERENCED OKAY.

I'LL KEEP THEM HERE AND HAND THEM OUT AS WE NEED TO.

OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ENTERING ALL THAT INTO THE RECORD.

DO ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS NEED ANY OF THIS PAPERWORK? YOU'RE OKAY? THANK YOU.

I CAN CERTAINLY.

OKAY, SO NOW THAT WE'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT HOUSEKEEPING, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE HAVE DISCUSSED TONIGHT ALREADY, AND I JUST WANT TO ENTER INTO THE RECORD THAT THIS IS A PROPERTY LOCATED IN OLD TOWN, OT TWO IS THE ZONING DISTRICT.

IT DOES PROVIDE THAT A PERSON CAN HAVE A BED AND BREAKFAST.

THE SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARD THAT HAS BEEN REPEATED SEVERAL TIMES TONIGHT IS IN 6.0206, WHICH SAYS SHE SHALL RESIDE IN THE INN, OR AN OWNER SHALL RESIDE IN THE INN.

YOUR YOUR CODE HAS NO DEFINITION FOR RESIDE, SO IT IS GOING TO BE UP TO THIS BOARD TO TAKE TESTIMONY AND DECIDE IF THE TESTIMONY THAT MY CLIENT GIVES PROVES THAT SHE RESIDES AND THE EVIDENCE THAT SHE PRESENTS, AND SO WHAT I'VE DONE IN MY RESPONSE, BECAUSE I DON'T FEEL LIKE THERE'S ANY CLEAR GUIDANCE.

WHAT ARE YOUR GUIDELINES? WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO APPLY TO THIS? HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DECIDE IF SHE RESIDES THERE? SO WHAT I DID WAS LOOKED AT WEBSTER DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS, WHICH IS PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS WHAT IS RESIDE MEAN?

[01:05:08]

OWNER OCCUPIED IS CIRCULAR.

IT SAYS IT MEANS YOU RESIDE.

SO WE'RE RIGHT BACK TO RESIDE.

IN MY OPINION, WE HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

SO WHAT WE DID WAS I LOOKED AT RECENT ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINIONS AND CASE LAW ABOUT AN ELECTION.

DO YOU RESIDE IN YOUR DISTRICT? THAT'S BEEN AN ISSUE LOCALLY PAST FIVE YEARS.

DOES A PERSON SAY WHERE THEY LIVE TO BE ABLE TO BE ON A BALLOT, TO BE ELECTED AS A PUBLIC OFFICIAL? WHAT DO YOU DO IN THAT SITUATION? THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION THAT WE HAVE STATES THAT YOU FIRST RELYING ON CASE LAW AND COURTS THAT HAVE HAD TO DETERMINE THESE MATTERS, YOU FIRST RELY ON WHAT THE PERSON TELLS YOU.

WHERE DO THEY RESIDE? THEN YOU LOOK AT THE FACTS AND THESE WOULD BE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL FACTS.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HEARSAY.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CONJECTURE.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT SOMEBODY THINKS.

YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO BE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE TO YOU IS ALL THESE EXHIBITS, AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE A HANDFUL OF THESE EXHIBITS, BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY I SEE UNDER THE CASE LAW. THERE'S CASE LAW THAT DISCUSSES PATERNITY SUITS AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COURT HAS JURISDICTION CASES THAT LOOK AT DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS AND WHETHER OR NOT A PERSON RESIDES SOMEWHERE. I INCLUDED A CASE THAT TALKS ABOUT WHETHER A GOVERNOR CAN RUN AGAIN.

DO THEY RESIDE? DO THEY MEET THE DEFINITION OF CANDIDACY.

IN ALL THOSE SITUATIONS YOU DEFER TO WHERE THE PERSON SAYS THEY LIVE, AND THE CASE LAW THAT I PROVIDED YOU STATES THAT YOU ALSO, IF THERE IS AMBIGUITY, IT IS TO BE YOUR TO DECIDE IT IN FAVOR AND LOOK TOWARDS WHAT THE PERSON TELLS YOU OF WHERE THEY LIVE.

SO THAT'S WHAT I'VE PROVIDED, BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO MAKE THIS DECISION.

YOUR CODE DOESN'T TELL YOU HOW TO MAKE IT, AND YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE TESTIMONY.

SO THE TESTIMONY THAT WE HAVE PROVIDED TONIGHT, WE HAVE THE EXHIBIT THAT IS HER VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE, AND I WILL HAVE MY CLIENT TESTIFY HERE IN A MINUTE AS TO ALL THESE MATTERS, BUT WITH A VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE, YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF OF RESIDENCY.

HER VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE, THAT'S EXHIBIT B HAS ON IT, IF YOU NEED TO SEE IT.

LADIES STREET AS HER RESIDENCE, AND IT WAS REISSUED IN OCTOBER OF 2022, AND SO LADIES STREET IS ON THAT DOCUMENT.

OH, YES, AND I DO HAVE.

ARE YOU GOING TO BRING IT UP? IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING? YOU INDICATED THAT YOU HAD A THUMB DRIVE? YES, BUT THAT'S GOING TO BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR YOU TO CONTROL THE PRESENTATION.

I CAN I DID EMAIL IT TO ME.

OKAY. YEAH I DON'T I HAVE THE PRESENTATION.

I DON'T HAVE ALL THESE EXHIBITS, SO THAT WOULD BE EASIER.

GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I EMAILED I EMAILED MISS BEST ONLY THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION.

OH, OKAY. THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE EXHIBITS? WELL, THE DRIVER'S LICENSE IS IN THERE.

I CAN BRING THAT UP.

YEAH. SORRY.

LET'S GET THIS.

IS THERE A PASSWORD? THERE IS. IT'S ON THE. OH, I SEE.

WE HAVE THAT IN THE PACKET.

YES. YOU DO.

SO, AND I CAN JUST SHOW YOU A PICTURE OF IT, AND WE CAN KEEP ON TRUCKING.

LET'S SEE. SO IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

IF YOU'RE ON THAT MOBILE UNIT THERE, THEN YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF THE PRESENTATION.

THERE IS A PICTURE OF HER VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE.

IT'S REALLY HARD TO READ IN THAT SITUATION, AND I DO HAVE THE EXHIBIT HERE, SO I WILL GO AHEAD AND HAND IT OUT.

HERE IS HER VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE WITH LADIES STREET AS HER ADDRESS.

IT STATES ON THERE THAT IT WAS REISSUED IN OCTOBER OF 2022.

THE NEXT ITEM THAT WE ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE, AND AGAIN, A DRIVER'S LICENSE, REQUIRE THAT YOU SHOW PROOF OF RESIDENCY.

THE NEXT ONE THAT I THINK IS ALSO VERY PERTINENT IS EXHIBIT C, WHICH IS HER VOTER REGISTRATION, AND EXHIBIT C, AGAIN, SHE IS REGISTERED TO VOTE HERE WITH THE LADIES STREET ADDRESS AND SHE VOTES AT MLK, AND THAT IS SOMETHING YOU ALSO HAVE TO PROVIDE PROOF OF RESIDENCY.

YOU DON'T GET TO JUST VOTE ANYWHERE.

SO WE ARE GOING TO ASK YOU TO RELY ON HER TESTIMONY TONIGHT ABOUT WHERE SHE LIVES AND THAT, AND RELY ON ALL THE EXHIBITS THAT WE HAVE HANDED OUT AND PUT INTO THE RECORD ABOUT WHERE SHE LIVES, AND APPLY THE STANDARDS OF GIVING DEFERENCE

[01:10:05]

WE LET ME GRAB THIS.

I'M GOING TO BRING MY CLIENT UP TO TESTIFY, AND THEN YOU CAN ASK A FEW QUESTIONS.

I'M JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING REALLY QUICKLY.

OKAY. JUST TO CLARIFY, WITH MR. POOLE AND MISS BACH, WE ARE ONLY DECIDING ON RESIDENCY BECAUSE THE LICENSES ARE.

YEAH. SO THE LICENSE ISN'T AT ISSUE.

IT'S IN THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION.

CITED BOTH THAT THE OWNER MUST RESIDE IN THE B&B, AND SO THAT'S REALLY THE SCOPE OF WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR IS THE ISSUE OF RESIDE THERE.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN ANY EVIDENCE OR ANY ARGUMENT THAT IT'S NOT PROPERLY LICENSED OR NOT PERMITTED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT.

JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY.

THANK YOU FOR THAT, MADAM CHAIR, AND THE REASON THE REASON WE CLARIFIED IT AS WELL IS BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE TESTIMONY OF MRS. FORSTROM, BECAUSE AT THE TIME THAT WAS THE INFORMATION SHE HAD.

SO SHE PUT STATE INFORMATION IN THE RECORD.

SO I WAS TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT, AND IN THE DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS, LIKE I SAID, WE OFFERED LINKS TO THE ONES WE FOUND.

TO RESIDE MEANS TO DWELL PERMANENTLY OR CONTINUOUSLY OCCUPY A PLACE AS ONE LEGAL DOMICILE.

THE LAW DICTIONARY WAS MUCH MORE BROAD TO LIVE SOMEWHERE, SUCH AS A TOWN OR A STATE, AND THEN THERE WAS WHEN I EXPANDED IT TO RESIDENTS.

THEN IT DID START LOOKING AT THE FACT THAT YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE TWO PLACES.

YOU COULD HAVE YOUR ACTUAL RESIDENCE AND ANOTHER RESIDENCE.

OFTEN PEOPLE HAVE TWO PLACES AND YOU HAVE TO DECLARE ONE, AND THAT IS YOUR PRIMARY DOMICILE, YOUR ABODE, AND SO TONIGHT, THE EVIDENCE WE'RE PRESENTING AND THE INFORMATION WE'VE PUT IN THE RECORD ARE TO PROVE THAT THIS IS WHERE SHE LIVES, THIS IS HER ABODE, AND THAT SHE MEETS THE DEFINITION WE THREW IN.

IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE SIX, THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE, WHEN THEY HAVE TO DECIDE IF YOU'RE A RESIDENT.

BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO DEFINE THIS FOR YOU, GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO WORK WITH UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE RULES.

IN ORDER TO BE A RESIDENT, TO HAVE TO PAY TAXES, YOU HAVE TO BE IN RESIDENCE FOR 183 DAYS OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS.

SO THAT'S THE TEST THAT YOU HAVE TO BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT FOR 183 DAYS.

IT'S A COMPLICATED CALCULATION THAT WE PUT IN OUR PACKAGE, BUT BASICALLY THEY LOOK OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS AND IF YOU'VE BEEN PHYSICALLY PRESENT FOR 183 DAYS, YOU ARE GOING TO BE CONSIDERED A RESIDENT TO PAY TAXES TO THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND WE WILL HAVE TESTIMONY TONIGHT THAT MRS. PINHO HAS CERTAINLY MET THAT STANDARD AS WELL, AND WE'VE CLARIFIED THE STATE ISSUES THAT WAS IN ORIGINALLY IN MICHELLE'S PACKET, SHE READ INTO THE RECORD THE STATE ISSUES, THAT MAYBE THERE WAS A WARNING OR THAT THERE WAS A WARNING ISSUED, BUT THAT HAS BEEN RESOLVED.

WE HAVE HANDED THAT OUT PRIOR TO MY COMING UP TO GIVE MY TESTIMONY.

IT HAS BEEN ENTERED INTO THE RECORD AS THE RESULTS OF THE STATE INSPECTION.

IT DID HAPPEN TODAY, ON OCTOBER 7TH.

SOME OF THE STATE'S CONCERNS THAT WERE RESOLVED WAS HOW IT WAS ADVERTISED, AND THEY ASKED MISS PINHO AND SHE'S DONE IT TO GO AHEAD AND UPDATE HER LISTINGS SO THAT IT'S REALLY CLEAR THAT IT IS INDIVIDUAL ROOMS AND VERY CLEAR THAT IT'S NOT A 30 DAY RENTAL.

OKAY. SO WE WILL BE I'LL HAVE HER TESTIFY TO THAT.

THIS IS THE BED AND BREAKFAST, AND THEN THESE ARE TWO SITES THAT WE GAVE TO THE, AND I HAVE THE WRITTEN DESCRIPTION OF THIS IN THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS ENTERED.

I'M GOING TO SEE IF THIS FANCY THING WORKS IN MY OFFICE.

IT WENT TO A WEBSITE. THERE WE GO.

WE PROVIDED THIS TO THE STATE.

IT NOW SHOWS THAT YOU GET A PRIVATE ROOM AND A BED AND BREAKFAST, AND WE HAVE REMOVED THE 30 DAY RENTAL ONE WHICH WE WILL TESTIFY TO AND IT DOES TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE THE ITEMS ON A FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE BASIS, AND THIS IS EXHIBIT K, I HAVE ALL THE PRINTED INFORMATION THAT I HAVE HERE ABOUT HER PROPERTY LISTINGS THAT WERE UPDATED.

SO THE WAY THEY READ NOW, THAT WAS THAT'S WHY THE STATE ISSUED A WARNING, IS THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT HOW SHE WAS ADVERTISING, AND SO SHE'S CORRECTED THAT THEY INSPECTED THIS MORNING AND THEY HAVE NOW SAID SHE DOESN'T NEED A DIFFERENT LICENSE.

SHE DOES MENTION IN HERE THAT THEY HAVE BREAKFAST, AND SHE'LL TESTIFY AS TO THE TYPE OF BREAKFAST THAT SHE PROVIDES.

YOUR CODE, I BELIEVE, SAYS AN ABBREVIATED BREAKFAST SERVICE, AND W

[01:15:09]

SO THAT WAS ON AIRBNB.

THAT WAS A CONCERN THAT IT WAS ON AIRBNB, AND I'LL GO BACK TO THAT ONE, AND WHEN YOU'RE IN AIRBNB THERE'S A LOCATION TO GO TO.

BED AND BREAKFAST, AND WE HAVE IN OUR PRESENTATION THAT THERE ARE TWO OTHER BREAKFASTS THAT WE FOUND THAT ARE ADVERTISING UNDER AIRBNB, BUT AGAIN, THIS DOESN'T GO TO THE FACT OF WHETHER OR NOT SHE RESIDES THERE.

IT'S JUST I WAS UPDATING YOU ON THE STATE'S CONCERNS AND HOW WE HAVE FIXED THOSE STATE CONCERNS.

THERE'S NOTHING UNDER THE STATE THAT SAYS SHE HAS TO LIVE THERE.

NOT A SINGLE REQUIREMENT.

SO THAT IS A CITY REQUIREMENT THAT DOES OVERLAY THE STATE, AND THAT'S HOW SHE GOT HER LICENSE IN THE STATE.

WE DO HAVE SOME OTHER BED AND BREAKFASTS THAT ALSO ADVERTISE ON AIRBNB.

THIS IS ONE HERE IN FERNANDINA BEACH.

THE WILLIAMS HOUSE, AND AGAIN, MISS FORSTROM'S STATEMENT WAS THAT IT WAS ON AIRBNB AS A 30 DAY RENTAL, AND SO THAT IT'S NO LONGER BEING SHOWN AS A 30 DAY RENTAL, AND THIS ONE AGAIN, IS THE WILLIAMS HOUSE HERE IN TOWN, AND THEN THERE'S ONE IN GAINESVILLE THAT ALSO ADVERTISES ON AIRBNB, AND THEY ADVERTISE THEIR ONE HOTEL ROOM.

IT'S JUST ANOTHER WAY TO GET ADVERTISING AND GET BOOKINGS.

I HAVE THE FLORIDA INFORMATION, BUT I DON'T THINK WE NEED IT HERE AS TO WHAT'S REQUIRED BY THE STATE OF FLORIDA BECAUSE SHE IS LICENSED.

WE'VE ALREADY LOOKED AT THIS SLIDE, WHICH IS THE NEW STATE.

THERE'S NO LONGER A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT SHE HAS THE RIGHT LICENSE OR ANY OPEN WARNINGS, AND THEN I'LL JUST LEAVE IT ON THIS PARTICULAR SCREEN, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE ASKING YOU TONIGHT THAT YOU LOOK AT OUR EVIDENCE AND FIND THAT SHE DOES RESIDE IN THE INN AND THAT YOU ONLY CONSIDER COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE WHEN MAKING YOUR DECISION BECAUSE IT'S A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING AND THAT WE BE FOUND TO BE IN COMPLIANCE, AND AT THIS TIME, UNLESS YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR ME, I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK MY CLIENT A FEW QUESTIONS AND THEN LET YOU ASK HER QUESTIONS.

YOU CAN ASK YOUR CLIENT QUESTIONS.

OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

WERE YOU SWORN IN, MA'AM? YES, I WAS.

MY NAME IS KATHLEEN MORIARTY PINHO.

I LIVE AT 1015 LADIES STREET.

OKAY. QUESTIONS.

ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GOING TO START VERY SIMPLY.

WHERE DO YOU RESIDE? 1015 LADIES STREET.

OKAY, AND WHAT DATE DID YOU BEGIN OPERATING AS A BED AND BREAKFAST IN MARCH OF 2024.

OKAY, AND HOW MANY TIMES HAS THE ENTIRE BED AND BREAKFAST BEEN BOOKED TO OCCUPY ALL THREE OF THE ROOMS THAT YOU HAVE? FOUR.

OKAY, AND WE ENTERED INTO THE EVIDENCE EXHIBIT L, WHICH IS HER BOOKINGS, AND IN EXHIBIT L, WE NOTIFIED WITH THREE ASTERISKS THE NIGHTS THAT ALL THREE BEDROOMS WERE RENTED.

HOW MANY NIGHTS HAVE YOU STAYED AT THE BED AND BREAKFAST WHEN GUESTS ARE PRESENT? I DON'T HAVE AN EXACT NUMBER FOR YOU, SO I WOULD BE GUESSING, BUT I WOULD SAY QUITE OFTEN IT DEPENDS ON MY SCHEDULE.

I DON'T KEEP A LOG OF WHEN I'M AT MY HOME, SO.

OKAY. SO, NO GUESTS? THAT'S FINE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GUESS. YOU SHOULDN'T.

YEAH, I DON'T WANT TO GUESS RIGHT NOW AT THIS POINT.

DO YOU HAVE A SIGN FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT? LIKE I NOTICED, THERE'S NO BED AND BREAKFAST SIGN OUT FRONT.

DO YOU HAVE A SIGN? YES I DO.

OKAY, AND DO YOU INTEND ON PUTTING UP A BED AND BREAKFAST SIGN? I DO, I DIDN'T LIKE THE SIGN THAT I HAD, AND I ALSO, YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME, I WASN'T SURE IF IT WAS APPROPRIATE FOR US TO PUT IT UP IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BECAUSE I KNEW THAT THERE WAS SOME CONTROVERSY ABOUT THAT.

SO OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE NEIGHBORS, I DIDN'T WANT TO PUT SOME BIG SIGN UP UNTIL, YOU KNOW, UNTIL I FOUND OUT, YOU KNOW, THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU PUT A SIGN UP, YOU NEED A SIGN PERMIT.

OH, OKAY.

LET'S NOT RUN AFOUL OF THAT.

OKAY, AND DO YOU INTEND TO EXPAND THIS RESIDENCE TO PROVIDE AN ACTUAL DEDICATED OWNER'S QUARTERS? YES. WE HAVE CURRENTLY HAVE PLANS WITH RICE ARCHITECT.

WE'VE ALREADY HAD THE PLANS DRAWN UP, AND WE'RE HOPING TO GO INTO THE PERMITTING PROCESS IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

OKAY, AND THAT'S TO HAVE A DEDICATED OWNER'S QUARTERS.

YES. OKAY.

BECAUSE AT THIS TIME, WHAT DO YOU DO? AND I'M GOING TO GO OUT OF ORDER HERE.

SO IF YOU WANT ME TO STAY IN ORDER, I WILL STAY WITH.

WHEN? WHEN YOU HAVE GUESTS.

HOW DO YOU SERVE BREAKFAST? BECAUSE THE CODE REQUIRES AN ABBREVIATED BREAKFAST SERVICE.

SO HOW DO YOU SERVE? I HAVE A VARIETY OF PACKAGED FOODS, BREAKFAST PACKAGED FOODS.

[01:20:02]

SO YOU CAN'T DO, YOU CAN'T DO, YOU CAN'T DO A HOT MEAL OR COOK ANYTHING.

EVERYTHING HAS TO BE IN INDIVIDUAL PACKAGES, AND SO UNDER YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE STATE LICENSE YOU HAVE TO SERVE BREAKFAST.

YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE SOME KIND OF BREAKFAST COMPONENT.

RIGHT, AND IF YOU'RE NOT LICENSED TO COOK BREAKFAST THEN THE STATE REQUIRES YOU TO USE PACKAGED FOODS, INDIVIDUALLY PACKAGED FOODS LIKE MUFFINS, BUT THE MUFFIN WOULD HAVE TO BE WRAPPED INDIVIDUALLY.

YOU COULDN'T JUST BRING A BAG OF DONUTS AND SAY, HEY, HERE'S BREAKFAST.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE WRAPPED.

HOW DO THEY GET IF YOU'RE NOT ON THE PREMISES WHEN BREAKFAST IS AVAILABLE, HOW DO THEY SERVE? HOW DO THEY GET BREAKFAST? WELL, I HAVE A COFFEE BAR AND THEN WE HAVE A PANTRY, AND THERE'S JUST I MEAN, IT'S UNLIMITED.

THEY CAN EAT WHAT THEY WANT AND DRINK WHAT THEY WANT, AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU CLAIMED 1015 LADIES STREET AS YOUR RESIDENCE PRIOR TO APPLYING FOR A BED AND BREAKFAST LICENSE? OCTOBER 2022.

OKAY. SO YOU RESIDED ON THE PROPERTY FROM THAT DATE UNTIL NOW, IS YOUR TESTIMONY? YES. OKAY.

WHEN YOU BOOK THE OWNER'S QUARTERS, BECAUSE MICHELLE TESTIFIED THAT SOMETIMES ALL THE ROOMS IN THE BED AND BREAKFAST ARE RENTED.

SO WHEN YOU BOOK THE OWNER'S QUARTERS TO A GUEST WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR PERSONAL ITEMS? WHERE IS THE STUFF? I MEAN, IF YOU LIVE THERE, WHERE DOES YOUR STUFF GO IF THERE'S A THIRD ROOM BOOKED? WELL, I HAVE THREE GIANT WALK IN CLOSETS, SO I KEEP ONE OF THOSE LOCKED OFF, AND THAT HAS ALL OF MY PERSONAL BELONGINGS IN IT.

SO, AND I HAVE OTHER CLOSETS, TOO, THAT I HAVE AN ADDITIONAL OWNER'S CLOSET BLOCKED OFF.

SO I HAVE TWO ESSENTIALLY, AND DO YOU HAVE DOES YOUR HUSBAND LIVE WITH YOU? HE DOES NOT LIVE WITH ME.

OKAY. HE HAS HIS OWN PROPERTY.

HE LIVES IN CLAY COUNTY.

OKAY, AND SO WHERE YOUR HUSBAND LIVES, DO YOU HAVE CLOTHES THERE? I HAVE A FEW ITEMS THERE, BUT NOTHING MUCH.

I WAS TELLING YOU. IT'S JUST THINGS THAT I PROBABLY SHOULD GIVE TO GOODWILL, BUT.

YEAH, THERE'S SOME ITEMS THERE.

OKAY, AND THIS GETS A LITTLE PERSONAL, BUT AGAIN, WE'VE GOT TO WE'RE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT WHY MAYBE PEOPLE DON'T SEE YOU OR WHERE YOU ARE WHEN GUESTS ARE PRESENT.

PLEASE PROVIDE EXAMPLES OF WHERE YOU ARE WHEN YOU'RE NOT SPENDING THE NIGHT AT YOUR HOME AT 1015 LADIES STREET.

WELL, I WOULD BE IN ONE OF THREE PLACES.

I'M EITHER AT LADIES STREET, MY HOME, OR I'M AT MY PARENTS HOUSE.

THEY'RE 87 YEARS OLD.

THEY STILL LIVE BY THEMSELVES, AND MY SISTER AND I TAKE TURNS STAYING WITH THEM.

SO I'M THERE 2 TO 3 NIGHTS A WEEK.

THE OTHER PLACE I MIGHT BE WOULD BE AT MY OTHER PROPERTY OR ON VACATION, AND HAVE YOU TRAVELED RECENTLY? YES, WE TRAVEL QUITE A BIT.

WE DID TRAVEL A LOT OVER THE SUMMER, WHICH MAY BE WHY THEY DIDN'T THINK I WAS LIVING THERE AND DIDN'T SEE ME, BUT I SEE TANDY ALL THE TIME, SO I DON'T KNOW REALLY KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, AND THEN HOW DO YOU TAKE CARE OF THE GUESTS IF YOU'RE NOT THERE WHEN IF YOU BOOK EVERY SINGLE ROOM, AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO STAY ON PROPERTY WITH THEM, HOW DO YOU TAKE CARE OF THEM? WELL, I TRY TO BE PRESENT FOR CHECK IN AND CHECK OUT ALWAYS.

IT'S JUST A VERY SMALL, INTIMATE BED AND BREAKFAST.

SO IT DOESN'T REQUIRE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT A LARGER PLACE WOULD REQUIRE.

THEY THEY DON'T NEED MY SERVICES, BUT I'M AVAILABLE.

IF THEY DO, THEY CAN CONTACT ME AT ANY TIME, 24/7.

THEY HAVE MY NUMBER.

SO I AM AVAILABLE.

I'M JUST NOT PRESENT AT ALL TIMES TO, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE WANT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF PRIVACY, ESPECIALLY IN A SMALLER HOME.

SO AND WE SUBMITTED EXHIBIT L, WHICH IS ALL THE, THE BOOKINGS THAT WE'VE HAD SINCE YOU'VE BEEN PROPERLY LICENSED, AND YOU'VE ALREADY STATED FOR THE RECORD THAT IT'S ONLY BEEN FOUR TIMES ALL THREE ROOMS. SO IT'S YOUR TESTIMONY THAT ALL THE OTHER TIMES ON EXHIBIT L AND I HAVE IT HERE, IF YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IT, THE ENTIRE PLACE WAS NOT RENTED.

NO. OKAY, AND DO YOU EVER STAY THE NIGHT THERE WHEN THERE ARE GUESTS THERE? YES I DO. OKAY, AND JUST SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND WITH THE STATE INFORMATION, HOW DID YOU UPDATE YOUR INTERNET LISTINGS? I KNOW MICHELLE, MS. FORSTROM DID PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS RENTED ON A 30-DAY BASIS, BUT HOW HAVE YOU NOW UPDATED YOUR LISTINGS? WELL, THE THAT WAS AN, THAT LISTING WAS AN OLD LISTING AND ALL ALL OF THEM SAID A MONTHLY RENTAL ONLY.

[01:25:06]

THAT WAS WHAT WAS LEADING TO THE CONFUSION.

SO AND THAT LISTING YOU PUT UP WENT IN 2022.

THAT WAS IN. YEAH 2022 MOST LIKELY.

YEAH, AND THAT'S BECAUSE I'M ASKING IS THAT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE A BED AND BREAKFAST.

THAT'S RIGHT. YES. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY, AND YOU CAN ONLY YOU CAN ONLY DO MONTHLY RENTALS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COMMERCIAL LICENSE.

OKAY, AND AGAIN THIS IS A GUESS.

I MEAN I KNOW NONE OF US KEEP TRACK OF WHERE WE ARE ALL THE TIME, BUT I DID ASK YOU TO LOOK AT YOUR CALENDAR OVERALL, TO YOUR BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

HOW MANY NIGHTS DO YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN IN THE INN SINCE BEING LICENSED AS A BED AND BREAKFAST, AND YOUR LICENSE STARTED IN MARCH? SO SINCE MARCH OF 2024, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF HOW MANY NIGHTS YOU MAY OR MAY HAVE NOT BEEN.

YES, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, AND THAT'S JUST GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT DATES LIKE I HAVE LIKE YOU ASKED ME TO.

SO I CAME UP WITH 117 DAYS IN RESIDENCE AND THEN SINCE JANUARY 2024, WHICH JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE WHOLE YEAR, HOW MANY DAYS DO YOU BELIEVE JUST LOOKING AT YOUR CALENDAR, YOU WERE IN RESIDENCE? I CAME UP WITH 155 DAYS SINCE JANUARY.

OKAY, AND THEN I'M JUST GOING TO END WITH WHAT I THINK IS REALLY PERTINENT ABOUT WHERE YOU RESIDE, BECAUSE IT TAKES EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT'S WHERE YOU RESIDE.

WHERE ARE YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE IN NASSAU COUNTY? OKAY. WHAT ADDRESS IS LISTED ON YOUR VOTER REGISTRATION? 1015 LADIES STREET.

OKAY. SO DID YOU PERSONAL QUESTION HERE.

DID YOU VOTE IN THIS ELECTION? I DID, YEAH. WHERE WOULD YOU GO TO VOTE? DO YOU KNOW? I WENT TO ATLANTIC REC CENTER, I VOTED EARLY.

OKAY. OKAY. SO YOU GOT TO GO ANYWHERE? NO, I DON'T THINK YOU GET TO GO ANYWHERE.

I THINK WHEN YOU VOTE EARLY, YOU DO, BUT WE'RE NOT HERE FOR THAT, SO, AND WHAT ADDRESS IS ON YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE, WHICH ALSO REQUIRES YOU TO SHOW PROOF OF YOUR RESIDENCE.

1015 LADIES STREET.

OKAY, AND THEN MY CLIENT DID HAVE A STATEMENT SHE WANTED TO READ INTO THE RECORD.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK HER QUESTIONS FIRST.

WE'VE PROBABLY ALREADY GONE OVER A LOT OF THIS, BUT I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ IT ANYWAY SINCE I WROTE IT.

OR WOULD YOU RATHER ASK QUESTIONS FIRST? GOOD. OKAY.

GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN.

MEMBERS OF THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD AND CITY ATTORNEY BOC.

I THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE THIS EVENING, BUT MOST ESPECIALLY, I WANT TO THANK THE VOLUNTEER MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.

I KNOW THE TIME YOU SPEND HERE CAN BE UNDERAPPRECIATED, BUT WANT YOU TO KNOW I VALUE YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE FOR THIS IMPORTANT PROCESS.

MY NAME IS KATHLEEN MORIARTY PINHO AND I AM THE OWNER OPERATOR OF THE COASTAL CASITA BED AND BREAKFAST AT 1015 LADIES STREET, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA, WHICH IS ALSO MY HOME. I AM HERE TONIGHT WITH MY HUSBAND, MIKE.

HE HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY SUPPORTIVE IN MY LONG AND SOMETIMES DIFFICULT JOURNEY TO SECURE LICENSING AND APPROVAL FOR THE COASTAL CASITA BED AND BREAKFAST.

WITH HIS HELP, WE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL WITH BOTH THE CITY AND THE STATE AND ARE NOW OPERATING AS SMALL, WONDERFUL BED AND BREAKFAST, CONTRIBUTING POSITIVELY TO THE ECONOMY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.

I AM A GOOD NEIGHBOR.

I AM A RESPONSIBLE PROPERTY AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, AND I DO EVERYTHING WITHIN MY POWER TO HELP OUR COMMUNITY PROSPER ETHICALLY AND WITHOUT CONFLICT.

FRANKLY, I AM A BIT BAFFLED BY THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION I RECEIVED.

THE NOTICE SUGGESTS THAT I DO NOT RESIDE AT 1015 LADIES STREET.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.

THIS FALSE ASSERTION SEEMS TO BE BASED ENTIRELY UPON REPORTS FROM NEIGHBORS, AND A VERY SUPERFICIAL INVESTIGATION CONSISTING OF NOTHING MORE THAN HARASSING MY GUESTS. TO BE CLEAR, I DO RESIDE AT 1015 LADIES STREET, FERNANDINA BEACH, AND IT IS MY LEGAL RESIDENCE.

I AM REGISTERED TO VOTE HERE.

MY DRIVER'S LICENSE IS FROM HERE.

A NEWLY ORDERED BUSINESS VEHICLE WILL BE REGISTERED HERE AND ITS INSURANCE WILL REFLECT THAT.

MY CAR IS GARAGED HERE.

I HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE, SO IF YOU DON'T SEE MY CAR IN THE DRIVEWAY, IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GARAGE AND IT'S NOT SILVER, IT'S ACTUALLY TAUPE.

AS IT HAPPENS, MY HUSBAND I DO OWN ANOTHER PROPERTY IN CLAY COUNTY.

I ALSO HAVE A NUMBER OF RELATIVES IN NORTHEAST FLORIDA, INCLUDING MY AGING 87 YEAR OLD PARENTS OF THE TIME I SPEND AWAY FROM LADIES STREET.

MUCH OF IT IS WITH THEM.

I HAVE SET UP MY HOUSE SO THAT WHEN MY BED AND BREAKFAST, MY PRIMARY HOME IS OCCUPIED.

I HAVE PERSONAL BELONGINGS FOR TIMES WHEN I STAY OVERNIGHT AT MY PARENTS' HOUSE OR MY SECOND HOME WELL UNDERWAY, I AM CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF DESIGNING AN OWNER'S

[01:30:01]

THE PLANS ARE FINAL WITH THE LOCAL DESIGN FIRM, RICE ARCHITECT, AND THE PERMITTING PROCESS WILL SOON BEGIN.

I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LAND USE CODE THAT REQUIRES ME TO BE PRESENT AT MY RESIDENCE AT ALL TIMES, OR TO BE THERE TO CHECK GUESTS IN OR OUT, OR OTHERWISE BE PRESENT WHEN MY GUESTS ARE PRESENT.

I OFTEN GREET MY GUESTS AT THE PROPERTY, WHICH I LOVE TO DO, BUT I ALSO OFFER A CONVENIENT SELF CHECK IN OPTION.

I DON'T COOK BREAKFAST FOR MY GUESTS BECAUSE I DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE THE ADDITIONAL LICENSE TO DO THAT, BUT AS AUTHORIZED BY STATE LAW, I PROVIDE PREPACKAGED BREAKFAST ITEMS THAT MY GUESTS CAN ENJOY AT THEIR LEISURE.

I AM LICENSED TO OPERATE AS A BED AND BREAKFAST BY FERNANDINA BEACH, AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT I AM FULLY COMPLIANT WITH ALL STATE AND MUNICIPAL REQUIREMENTS IN HOW I OPERATE MY BED AND BREAKFAST.

AGAIN, I AM CONFIDENT THAT I'M FULLY COMPLIANT WITH ALL STATE AND MUNICIPAL REQUIREMENTS IN HOW I OPERATE.

I HAVE REQUESTED TO BE PROVIDED WITH THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF RESIDE THAT THE CITY IS USING, AND WHAT PROOF I WOULD NEED TO PROVIDE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT I DO INDEED RESIDE IN THE INN AT 1015 LADIES STREET.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE CITY HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GIVE ME AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

AREN'T WE MISSING THAT VERY IMPORTANT STEP IN THE PROCESS? AND HASN'T THE CITY HISTORICALLY, IN EVERY OTHER CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE, PROVIDED THE BUSINESS OWNER WITH CLEAR AND UNEQUIVOCAL GUIDANCE AS TO WHY THE CITY BELIEVES THEY ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE? I WOULD ASK WHEN A RESTAURANT IS FOUND IN VIOLATION OF A CODE, IS THE ONLY SOLUTION OFFERED BY THE CITY AND ITS CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD A PERMANENT AND COMPLETE SHUTDOWN OF THE RESTAURANT.

I HAVE LOOKED BACK AT THE LAST FIVE RULINGS FROM THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD.

IN EVERY CASE, YOU, THE BOARD, HAVE PROVIDED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE OWNER TO COMPLY, EVEN IN CASES WHERE THEY DID NOT SHOW UP AT THE HEARING.

DO I NOT WARRANT THE SAME TREATMENT FROM THE CITY? SO EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS MY DESIRE IS TO COMPLY.

ALWAYS. I ASSUME THE CITY'S DESIRE IS THAT I COMPLY.

BECAUSE I ALSO ASSUME THE CITY BELIEVES THAT SUCCESSFUL SMALL BUSINESSES THAT THEY APPROVE TO OPERATE IS GOOD FOR FERNANDINA BEACH.

AS SUCH, I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THIS BOARD NOT ACQUIESCE IN THE CITY'S EFFORTS TO SHUT ME DOWN BASED ON COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS WITH AN AGENDA TO PUT ME OUT OF BUSINESS.

I THEREFORE ASK YOU TO FIND THAT I'M NOT IN VIOLATION OF THE CODE, SO THAT I CAN CONTINUE TO MAKE A LIVING BY OPERATING A BED AND BREAKFAST OUT OF MY HOME.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.

I JUST NEED TO GRAB SOME WATER.

OH, YEAH. SURE. DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MRS. PINHO? YES, I HAVE QUESTIONS.

ARE YOU READY? YES, AND SOME OF ITS CLARIFICATION.

I TOOK SOME NOTES DURING TESTIMONY AND QUESTIONING.

SO MY FIRST QUESTION AND WE GOT A LITTLE PERSONAL HERE TONIGHT, BUT I DO THINK SOME OF IT'S RELEVANT.

MRS. MORIARTY PINHO.

IS THAT PROPERLY LIKE, OKAY, THE WAY TO YOUR LAST NAME? OKAY. YEAH. YOU'RE LEGALLY MARRIED? WE ARE. WHO ARE YOU LEGALLY MARRIED TO? MIKE PINHO. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN LEGALLY MARRIED? OH, GOD. I MEAN, IF IT'S A REALLY LONG TIME.

[CHUCKLING] MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

SO DO YOU HAVE WHAT'S THE ADDRESS OF THE FLEMING ISLAND HOME THAT YOU OWN WITH YOUR HUSBAND? 2125 SALT MYRTLE LANE.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU OWNED THAT PROPERTY? 15 YEARS.

OKAY. IS IT. IS IT HOMESTEADED? IT IS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY HOMESTEADED? I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. IT HAS A HOMESTEAD TAX EXEMPTION? YES. YOU SAID THAT'S YOUR HUSBAND'S RESIDENCE, CORRECT? YOUR RESIDENCE IS AT 1015 LADIES STREET? IT IS NOW, YES. DO YOU HAVE THE 1015 LADIES STREET HOMESTEADED? NO, BUT WE TRIED TO GET IT HOMESTEADED BECAUSE.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE A PORTION HOMESTEADED? WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT, THOUGH.

THE HUSBAND WIFE CANNOT HAVE TWO DIFFERENT HOMESTEADS.

YOU GET ONE. OKAY.

WE TRIED. WE APPLIED FOR IT.

I UNDERSTAND. YEAH, AND THERESA IS VERY WELL AWARE.

OKAY. NOW, I UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT ABOUT BECAUSE YOU CAN IN A PORTION OF A, B AND B IF YOU RESIDE THERE A PORTION CAN BE EXEMPTED, BUT THIS IS BECAUSE HUSBAND WIFE LIVE SEPARATELY. OKAY. YES, AND TO THAT POINT, TAMMI, THEY CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY DID TRY AND MOVE IT TO THIS RESIDENCE, BUT BECAUSE IT WAS COMMERCIALLY OPERATED AND I DON'T WANT TO TESTIFY FOR YOU.

NO. THAT'S CORRECT. THEY ALSO ADVISED THEM THAT IT WAS RIDICULOUS TO MOVE IT.

I UNDERSTAND WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A HOMESTEAD SAVINGS.

SO DID YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS? WE DID. WE WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS.

WE ENDED UP THEY DROPPED THE HOMESTEAD IN CLAY COUNTY, AND THEN THE NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER

[01:35:08]

SO THAT WAS THAT.

DID THEY HELP YOU GET IT BACK? HE DID. HE WAS VERY GENEROUS, AND HE SAID, I'M GOING TO CALL THE CLAY COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER AND SEE IF WE CAN GET YOU YOUR HOMESTEAD BACK ON THAT PROPERTY, AND SHE DID. SHE AGREED TO IT.

THAT'S GOOD. EARLIER, AND JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, YOU SAID THAT YOU BEGAN YOUR RESIDENCY AT 1015 LADIES STREET, OCTOBER 2022. WHEN DID YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND PURCHASE OR WHEN DID YOU PURCHASE THE ACTUALLY, YEAH, IT'S YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND PURCHASED THE 1015 LADIES STREET HOUSE.

I HAVE THAT SOMEWHERE.

THAT WAS IN APRIL OF 2022.

YEAH. APRIL.

SO IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE YOU'VE BEEN A RESIDENT AT THIS HOUSE? YES. WHO LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM YOU? DO YOU KNOW YOUR NEIGHBOR.

YES. HER NAME IS LAURA [INAUDIBLE].

OKAY. HOW MANY? HOW YOU SAID THAT THERE HAVE BEEN FOUR TIMES SINCE MARCH 2024, WHEN YOU HAD YOUR VALID BED AND BREAKFAST LICENSE, THAT YOU HAVE RENTED OUT ALL THE ROOMS WHERE YOU WERE NOT PRESENT? YES. EVERY OTHER TIME YOU WERE PRESENT AT THE PROPERTY.

NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.

YEAH. OKAY. HOW MANY? HOW OFTEN? JUST ON AVERAGE, SINCE MARCH 2024.

HAVE YOU RENTED THE PROPERTY FOR LESS THAN 30 DAYS? SINCE MARCH OF 2024.

I HAVE HAD 28 BOOKINGS, AND THAT'S.

I THINK THAT'S EXHIBIT K.

WE ENTERED THAT FOR YOU.

GREAT, AND IT'S EXHIBIT L.

I'M SORRY, I MISSPOKE.

F AS IN FRANK? L AS IN LOLLIPOP.

OKAY. SO 28 DIFFERENT RESERVATIONS.

YES. SO I'M JUST DOING THE MATH.

I'M NOT THAT GOOD AT MATH ANYMORE.

THAT WOULD BE 24 TIMES THAT.

YOU RENTED THE PROPERTY WHERE YOU DIDN'T RENT OUT ALL THREE BEDROOMS. YES, THAT WOULD BE CORRECT IF YOUR MATH IS CORRECT, BECAUSE I'M NOT GOOD AT MATH EITHER.

28 MINUS FOUR.

OH, YEAH. CLOSE. YEAH, THAT'S.

I KNOW THAT'S AS FAR AS I GO WITH IT.

[CHUCKLING] SO OF THE 24 TIMES YOU SAID YOU WERE NOT ALWAYS PRESENT THERE.

SO OUT OF THE 24 DIFFERENT REGISTRATIONS, HOW MANY OF THOSE PARTIES, LET'S SAY, COULD BE A SINGLE PARTY OR A FAMILY? DID YOU MEET THE GUESTS? OH, GOSH. IT'S ONLY 24.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. EXACTLY.

I KNOW YOU DON'T KEEP A RECORD.

I'M GOING TO SAY I'M GOING TO GO SAY AT LEAST HALF OF THAT 12.

AT LEAST 12 TIMES YOU'VE MET THAT.

YOU'VE MET THE GUEST. OKAY, AND BESIDES THE NEIGHBORS HERE TONIGHT THAT TESTIFIED AND LAURA, THAT LIVES ACROSS THE STREET AT 1012 LADIES STREET CAN.

DO YOU KNOW ANY OF THE OTHER NEIGHBORS? YEAH. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF US, THE ONLY NEIGHBORS THAT ACTUALLY WOULD SEE US BECAUSE OUR DRIVEWAY IS FACES 14TH STREET.

SO THERE'S ONLY ONE NEIGHBOR THAT ACTUALLY WOULD SEE US ALL THE TIME, AND THEY'RE NOT HERE.

THEY'RE HERE AS IT'S A VACATION HOME FOR THEM, AND THEIR NAME IS JAG AND JOY.

I THINK IT'S GOLSON IS THEIR LAST NAME, BUT THEY'RE THE ONLY HOUSE THAT ACTUALLY HAS DIRECT SIGHT LINE OF OUR HOUSE.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE ARE COMING UP WITH JOHN AND JOY GOLSON? JAG AND JOY.

OKAY, I UNDERSTAND.

GOLSON. I'M LOOKING AT THE NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER WEBSITE TO GET THIS INFORMATION TO BE CLEAR, JUST CURIOUS, AND WHO OWNS THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR TO YOU, DIRECTLY TO THE WEST? I BELIEVE THAT'S TANDY AND WANDA.

OKAY. THERE'S AN EMPTY LOT IN BETWEEN US.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. THE EMPTY LOT? YEAH, IT'S AN EMPTY LOT. THE EMPTY LOT? YEAH, WE DO OR NO, WE DON'T.

OKAY. WE HAVE A CONTRACT ON IT, BUT THAT'S JUST ANOTHER STORY.

SO, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S NOT RELEVANT.

MR. CAVANAGH OWNS IT. OKAY.

THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE FOR NOW.

OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU.

DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MISS PINHO? MRS. PINO, DO YOU HIRE A PROPERTY MANAGER TO KEEP THE PROPERTY IN LINE?

[01:40:05]

SO YOU CLEAN THE INSIDE AFTER EVERY GUEST.

I HELP CLEAN, BUT I HAVE A CONTRACT CLEANING SERVICE.

PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY OR CLEANING? NO, NO, IT'S A CLEANING SERVICE.

WHO PROVIDES ALL THE FOOD FOR THE BREAKFAST? I DO. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? YES. CITY ATTORNEY, WHAT'S YOUR NAME? MISS PRINCE. THERESA PRINCE.

MISS PRINCE, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT ON THIS AMENDED RESPONSE TO STAFF REPORT, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT YOU COULD HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE WITH AN ADDRESS ON IT VOTERS REGISTRATION, UTILITY BUILDING, MORTGAGE STATEMENT, STATEMENT FROM YOUR BANK AND STILL NOT LIVE THERE? NO.

I WOULD AGREE, AND THE REASON I FOCUSED ON THE VOTERS REGISTRATION AND THE DRIVER'S LICENSE IS BECAUSE THOSE LEGALLY, TO YOUR POINT, REQUIRE YOU TO PRESENT EVIDENCE THAT'S WHERE YOU RESIDE AND THAT'S WHY I INCLUDED THEM.

BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THE CASE LAW SHOWS THAT WHEN SOMEBODY IS MAKING A DECISION ABOUT RESIDE, THEY DO MENTION THE CASE LAW MENTIONS ALL THESE OTHER THINGS.

THE BANK STATEMENTS AND THE MORTGAGE STATEMENT AND THE UTILITY.

TO YOUR POINT, YOU COULD TELL THEM IT'S MARS.

I MEAN, THAT IS NOT REGULATED, BUT THE VOTER'S REGISTRATION CARD IS AND SHE IS LEGALLY VOTING WITH THAT ADDRESS IN THAT VOTING PRECINCT, AND SO IS A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

TO YOUR POINT, AFTER YOU PROCURE THESE DOCUMENTS, DOES THAT STILL MEAN THAT'S WHERE YOU LIVE? YOU'RE LEGALLY REQUIRED IF YOU CHANGE YOUR RESIDENCE TO CHANGE THE DRIVER'S LICENSE WITHIN TEN DAYS, AND SO I WOULD SAY YES, ALONG WITH THE SWORN TESTIMONY THAT 'S WHERE SHE LIVES AND THE FACT THAT SHE HAS NOT AVAILED HERSELF OF THE LAWS THAT REQUIRED HER TO CHANGE BOTH WHEN SHE'S NOT THERE.

I BELIEVE IT IS EVIDENCE THAT SHE'S EITHER OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW OR LYING, OR SHE LIVES THERE.

THOSE ARE YOUR OPTIONS.

OKAY. I FOUND IT QUITE COMPELLING.

SOME OF THE TESTIMONY FROM THE NEIGHBORS.

THAT A BED AND BREAKFAST, BUT YET SOMEONE'S LOOKING TO FIND SOMEWHERE TO EAT BREAKFAST.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE FEATURES OF A BED, AND BREAKFAST IS TO HAVE A GOOD BREAKFAST.

CORRECT. OKAY.

LET ME LET ME GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.

I FOUND IT ALSO VERY COMPELLING.

I'VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE.

I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN OLD TOWN, GROWING UP FROM BLOCKS AROUND WHERE I LIVE.

I CAN TELL YOU WHO DRIVES AND WHAT EVERY ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS FOR BLOCKS.

I CAN TELL YOU I FOUND IT STRANGE THAT NO ONE KNEW WHAT KIND OF CAR SHE DROVE.

WELL TO THE FIRST POINT OF THE TESTIMONY AND THE BREAKFAST, IT IS MODIFIED.

SHE HAS TESTIFIED THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUR CODE REQUIRES AN ABBREVIATED BREAKFAST SERVICE.

THE STATE WILL NOT LET HER COOK A BREAKFAST, AND SO SHE PROVIDES WHAT THE STATE SAYS, AND SO, QUITE FRANKLY, IF I RESIDED THERE, I'D EAT THOSE SNACKS AND THEN I'D GO TO T-RAY'S.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SHE'S NOT ALLOWED UNDER THE LICENSE OR REQUIRED UNDER THE CITY'S CODE OR THE STATE'S CODE TO COOK A BREAKFAST.

SO I WOULD DISPUTE WITH YOU THAT'S EVIDENCE THAT SHE'S NOT PROVIDING BREAKFAST.

SHE'S PROVIDING WHAT SHE'S ALLOWED TO LEGALLY PROVIDE THAT DOES COMPLY WITH THE CITY'S CODE AND THE STATE'S CODE, AND THEN THIS IS WHERE WE GET INTO COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE ABOUT NEIGHBORS NOT KNOWING THE CARS.

I MEAN, QUITE FRANKLY, I COULDN'T TELL YOU A SINGLE CAR ANYBODY DRIVES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT'S JUST NOT MY THING. SO I THINK THAT GETS VERY SPECIFIC INTO WHO YOU'RE TALKING TO, AND YOU, I'M GOING TO BE VERY STEREOTYPICAL HERE AS A MAN.

I MEAN, MY SIGNIFICANT OTHER CAN LIKE IDENTIFY A CAR DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD.

HE'LL BE LIKE, OH, LOOK AT THAT PORSCHE, AND I'M LIKE, HOW DID YOU EVEN SEE THAT? SO MAYBE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT'S SUBSTANTIAL, COMPETENT EVIDENCE THAT SOMEBODY SAYS THEY DON'T KNOW THE CAR THAT SHE DRIVES.

ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE'S GONE A LOT.

THERE'S A GARAGE. SO THAT'S UP TO YOUR COUNSEL TO DETERMINE WHAT IS SUBSTANTIAL, COMPETENT EVIDENCE FOR YOU TO, BUT JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY NEIGHBOR DRIVES, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, AND THERE'S EIGHT OF US.

I MEAN, I COULD SAY TRUCK, BUT AS FAR AS THE BREAKFAST, WE'RE COMPLYING WITH THE LAW THERE, AND I THINK THAT IF ANYBODY BOOKED A MODIFIED BED AND BREAKFAST WITH A MODIFIED, IT'S CLEAR ON THE RENTAL SITES THAT IT IS MODIFIED BREAKFAST.

[01:45:02]

YOU GET YOUR SNACK WHEN YOU GET UP, YOU GET YOUR COFFEE BECAUSE SHE'S NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING ELSE, AND THE CODE DOESN'T REQUIRE HER TO DO ANYTHING ELSE.

THAT'S WHERE WE'RE IN THE BOUNDS OF THE LAW HERE.

CODE DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT SHE BE THERE WHEN THEY CHECK IN.

DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT SHE BE THERE WHEN THEY STAY THERE.

DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT SHE SERVE A COOKED BREAKFAST.

OR THEY'D HAVE TO MAKE HER GET A FOOD AND BEVERAGE LICENSE.

IT'S JUST DOES SHE RESIDE THERE? THAT'S THE ONLY REQUIREMENT.

THANK YOU. YEAH. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YES. HI. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, AND PARTLY FOR OUR EMPLOYEES HERE.

OR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT.

HOW MANY CERTIFIED MAILINGS DID YOU SEND TO LADIES STREET? I'M SEEING THAT CERTIFIED MAILINGS WENT BOTH TO FLEMING ISLAND, FLORIDA, AND I SEE WHERE THEY'VE BEEN SIGNED AND RETURNED, AND I'M SEEING MAILINGS TO LADIES STREET, BUT I'M NOT SEEING THE SIGNATURE ON THAT.

THEY WERE RECEIVED.

DO YOU HAVE THAT OR AM I MISSING THAT IN HERE? WHEN I FIND MULTIPLE ADDRESSES, MAILING ADDRESSES, I'M GOING TO SEND THEM TO EVERYONE.

NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M ASKING, DO YOU HAVE A SIGNATURE FROM THESE OWNERS? YES. FROM RECEIVING AT LADIES STREET.

RECEIVING THE CERTIFIED MAIL AT LADIES STREET? YES. DID EITHER OF THE PINHO'S SIGN THOSE? YES. OKAY.

NOT THE LAST ONE, BUT THEY GOT IT THROUGH, I THINK.

EMAIL. I MEAN, NEEDLESS TO SAY, THEY RECEIVED NOTICE BECAUSE THEY'RE HERE.

THAT WAS ANOTHER WAY THAT WE ALSO NOTIFIED THEM, AND CAN I CLARIFY ON IT? YEAH, IT'S STILL NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION.

IT'S NOT. IT'S OKAY.

THE. I THINK THE QUESTION THAT HE'S ASKING IS YOU SENT CERTIFIED MAIL TO LADIES STREET.

WE KNOW THAT YOU SENT IT TO FLEMING ISLAND TO.

THEY HAVE EVIDENCE IN THEIR PACKETS THAT THERE ARE RETURN RECEIPT PAGES 19 AND 20 THAT ARE SIGNED THAT HAD BEEN SENT TO THE FLEMING ISLAND ADDRESS.

THE QUESTION IS, ANY OF THE GREEN CARDS COME BACK FROM THE LADIES STREET MAILING WITH SIGNATURES FROM.

YES, THE OWNERS.

SHE'S SAYING YES, THEY DID.

OKAY. YES.

BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN HERE, AND THAT'S WHY I WAS AND I MAY HAVE MISSED IT.

IT WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TIME.

THE OTHER THING I WAS KIND OF TAKEN BY, I WAS LOOKING AT THE REVIEWS ON THE DIFFERENT SITES.

YOU HAVE OUTSTANDING REVIEWS, YOU REALLY DO, AND THEY ALL TALK ABOUT YOU OR MANY OF THE REVIEWS TALK ABOUT YOU.

RIGHT? AND THEY TALK ABOUT HOW EASY IT IS TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, BUT NOT ONE OF THEM SAYS THAT THEY MET YOU.

HOW GREAT IT WAS TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU AND TALK WITH YOU.

HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGE YOU HAD.

BLAH BLAH BLAH. I JUST FOUND THAT INTERESTING, BUT YOU DO HAVE GREAT REVIEWS.

THANK YOU. YEAH.

THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? WELL, AND I WOULD JUST I WOULD JUST CAUTION THE BOARD NOT TO RELY ON ANYTHING THAT YOU OBSERVED OUTSIDE OF THIS PROCEEDING AND MAKING A DECISION TONIGHT.

SO IF YOU'VE SEEN REVIEWS, DON'T LET THAT FACTOR INTO, YOU KNOW, YOUR DECISION MAKING, BUT IF IT'S BEEN SUBMITTED AS PART OF EVIDENCE AND YOU CAN.

SO I JUST WASN'T SURE IF YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE PACKET OR.

YEAH. OR IT PULLED UP THE REVIEWS.

OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE RELYING ON WHAT'S IN THE PACKET AND NOT ACCESSING THE WEBSITE DIRECTLY.

OKAY. SO LET ME GO BACK TO THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT OR THE MAINTENANCE OF THE PROPERTY.

SO YOU'RE TELLING US THAT YOU CLEAN THE HOUSE? I HELP CLEAN THE HOUSE.

YOU HELP CLEAN THE HOUSE? YES.

DO YOU TAKE CARE OF THE GROUNDS OF THE HOUSE AS WELL? YES I DO. SO YOU CUT THE GRASS? I DO NOT. I HAVE A LAWN SERVICE CUT THE GRASS, BUT I DO ALL THE PLANTING AND THE WATERING.

WHAT OTHER SERVICES DO YOU RELY ON TO KEEP THIS PROPERTY? JUST THE HELP WITH THE CLEANING AND THE LAWN SERVICE.

THAT'S IT. CUTTING THE GRASS.

DO YOU DO ANYTHING IN THE YARD AT ALL? I DO, I DO WATERING, I DO PLANTING, I DO WEEDING, I DO ALL OF THAT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY.

I THINK YOU MAY STEP DOWN. THANK YOU MA'AM.

THANK YOU, AND I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS CASE.

OKAY. SURE. BOARD.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO DELIBERATE? ANY QUESTIONS? MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

I DID, I ACTUALLY CLOSED IT.

SHE CLOSED IT. OKAY. SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MOTION.

NO. NO. OKAY.

TOO MANY MOTIONS. OKAY, BOARD, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS? I THINK SOME OF THE QUESTIONS WENT A LITTLE BEYOND WHETHER SOMEONE RESIDES, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT'S IN THE SCOPE OF WHAT THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD CAN DO, BUT I GUESS FROM MY STANDPOINT, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE DEFINITION, AND WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

[01:50:05]

SORRY. I HAVE A VERY SOFT VOICE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST IN MY EYES, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE DEFINITION OF WHAT RESIDE IS, AND WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD ONE.

EVEN IF WE GO BY THE IRS DEFINITION.

MRS. PINHO'S TESTIFIED THAT SHE'S BEEN THERE AT LEAST 154 DAYS OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

SO SHE'S ONLY 26 DAYS AWAY FROM HITTING 180 DAYS, ACCORDING TO THE IRS DEFINITION OF RESIDENCE.

SO. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULDN'T BE IN VIOLATION BECAUSE IF SHE STAYS THERE ONE NIGHT UNDER OUR UNDER OUR CODE, SHE'S A RESIDENT.

THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? IF NOT, DO WE HAVE A MOTION? LET ME SAY THIS BEFORE.

YES, SIR. DESPITE THE DOCUMENTATION, I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED BECAUSE OF THE NEIGHBORS OF HER RESIDENCY.

I DON'T FEEL THAT THESE PEOPLE WOULD JUST HAVE IT OUT FOR YOU ALL FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

I JUST DON'T.

SO SOMETHING IS AMISS HERE.

SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY AMISS, AND I'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU.

ANY COMMENTS? I AGREE, I DON'T THINK THAT NEIGHBORS WOULD COME HERE AND GIVE BAD TESTIMONY.

SO IT'S CONFUSING TO ME.

WELL, IF THE CAR IS IN THE GARAGE, HOW DO YOU PROVE THAT SOMEONE'S NOT THERE? WE'VE GOT A MOTION. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I'LL MAKE THE MOTION.

I THINK THAT THE.

THERE IS NO VIOLATION HERE.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? MOTION FAILS.

MAY I HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? HAS COMMUNICATION OTHER THAN MOTION'S BEEN SEIZED, OR CAN WE CONTINUE? NO. YOU CAN CONTINUE TO DELIBERATE ALL THE TIME TO.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING FOR ME IS THAT I THINK THAT THIS MEMBER TO MY TO MY LEFT, TO YOUR RIGHT OF ME IS RIGHT. I MEAN, WE'RE KIND OF IN A TOUGH SITUATION BECAUSE THERE'S REALLY NO CLEAR DEFINITION.

I GUESS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, AND IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO HANDLE THIS, IS IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT AND IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT BECAUSE OF THE NEIGHBOR'S TESTIMONY DOES MATTER, AND IT MATTERS BECAUSE FOR THOSE WHO ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH OLD TOWN, IT'S A PRETTY CONDENSED AREA, AND I THINK EVERYBODY LOOKS OUT FOR EACH OTHER.

THERE SEEMS LIKE THAT KIND OF NEIGHBORHOOD I KNOW THE NEIGHBORHOOD I LIVE IN I KNOW OF MY NEIGHBORS OUT OF TOWN.

I KNOW WHEN MY NEIGHBORS WHO DON'T LIVE HERE REGULARLY ARE GONE, AND I KNOW WHEN THEY'RE COMING BACK, AND I KNOW IF THERE IS A CAR PARKED IN A CERTAIN AREA THAT IS UNFAMILIAR.

I MAKE A NOTE OF IT.

SO I THINK TECHNICALLY WE'RE KIND OF IN A SITUATION WHERE WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT, AND I GUESS THAT'S NOT ANYTHING THAT WE CAN REALLY DETERMINE OUR FEELINGS ON HOW IT IS.

IT'S A MATTER OF WHETHER WE BELIEVE THE DEFINITION THAT WE DO HAVE IS WORKABLE.

WELL, WHAT OTHER DOCUMENTATION WOULD YOU REQUIRE OF THEM TO SHOW THAT SHE RESIDES THERE? WELL, YOU KNOW, THE DOCUMENTATION THING IS INTERESTING BECAUSE I THINK THAT MEMBER THOMPSON IS CORRECT.

I DON'T I'M NOT HERE TO DISAGREE AND GET INTO ANY LEGAL TALK, BUT YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY GET PRETTY MUCH EVERY ONE OF THOSE THINGS AND NOT RESIDE WHERE YOU SAY YOU RESIDE. THAT'S BEEN KIND OF AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR A WHILE, AND IN FACT, IT WAS A BIG PART OF DISCUSSION IN THE NEWS AS FAR AS THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING IF YOU HAD SIGNATURE FROM A PERSON AT 1015 THAT MATCHES THE PEOPLE WHO WERE HERE.

I DIDN'T SEE IT IN THE PACKET.

SO THAT KIND OF BUT YOU'VE ANSWERED THAT YOU HAVE IT AND THAT'S FINE.

WELL, HOW DO YOU PROVE THAT SOMEONE ACTUALLY LIVES AT THEIR HOUSE? DO YOU DO A BED CHECK? YOU KNOW, HOW ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO CHECK THAT SOMEBODY LIVES THERE, RIGHT?

[01:55:03]

I THINK SO. SO HOW CAN WE SAY THEY NEED SOMETHING ELSE? THAT'S WHAT I'M, I'M NOT MAKING A MOTION, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN STEP OUTSIDE THAT WINDOW, AND JUST A COMMENT ON WHAT THE STANDARD IS, IS YOUR DECISION NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT WAS PRESENTED TODAY AND THERE'S CASE LAW THAT SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT GIVES YOU A HUNCH ISN'T COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I HEARD FROM MEMBER THOMPSON IS, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS IS RIGHT OR SOMETHING DOESN'T SIT WELL, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A MOTION AND MAKE A RULING, I'M GOING TO ASK THAT YOU HAVE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE THAT WAS PRESENTED TONIGHT THAT SUPPORTS THAT DECISION.

JUST TO KIND OF PROTECT WHAT YOU DO.

I MEAN, FROM LOOKING AT THE LEGAL SIDE OF IT.

SO KIND OF PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS YOU MAKE YOUR DELIBERATIONS.

THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE BOARD? NO. I THINK YOU NEED TO REMAKE YOUR MOTION.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION AGAIN? I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE FIND THE DEFENDANT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW, AND I BASE THAT ON THE POOR DEFINITION THAT WE USE IN OUR CODE, AND WHAT ABOUT THE FINES? IF THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE, I WOULD FORGO THE FINES.

THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS OR FINES IF THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SPECIFIED.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO TAKE THE ROLL, MADAM CLERK? THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

MOTION'S CARRIED, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE, FOR YOUR TESTIMONY THIS EVENING.

ANY OTHER BUSINESS FOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD THIS EVENING?

[6. BOARD BUSINESS]

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.