>> AUGUST 15TH, [00:00:02] 2024 REGULAR HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL MEETING. MS. HOLZENDORF, WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >> YES, HERE. >> MEMBER FILKOFF. >> HERE. >> MEMBER BYRNES. >> HERE. >> CHAIR SPINO? >> HERE. >> MEMBER POYNTER, MEMBER POZZETTA, AND VICE CHAIR ESCLUSA ARE ABSENT. >> YOU GAVE ME A CHEAT SHEET. HERE IT IS. THANK YOU. LET'S RISE FOR THE PLEDGE. I WOULD ASK THAT WE STAY, FOR ONE MOMENT, IN PRAYER FOR OUR FRIEND AND HIS FAMILY, CHARLIE GEORGE. THANK YOU. GIVEN THE UNUSUAL ABSENCES TONIGHT, WE NEED TO SEE MS. FILKOFF AND MS. BYRNES. DID I GET THAT RIGHT? MS. KOSACK AND I WE AGREE TO SEAT YOUR SEAT. >> THANK YOU. >> MEMBERS, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU TONIGHT THAT THIS IS MY LAST MEETING AS CHAIR. I'LL BE RESIGNING AS CHAIR EFFECTIVE AT THE END OF THIS MEETING. IN THE OCTOBER MEETING, WE WILL ORGANIZE WITH OFFICERS. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING. HOPEFULLY, MR. ESCLUSA WILL BE THERE TO RUN THAT MEETING. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. WE'VE SEATED. WE'RE GOING TO DISCLOSE EX-PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. >> I SPOKE WITH STAFF ON NEW BUSINESS, THE 2024, 17, WHICH I BELIEVE HAS NOW BEEN PULLED. I SPOKE WITH STAFF AND ALSO WITH THE ARCHITECT AND MAIN STREET ON THE PAVILION AND RESTROOMS. THAT'S ALL. >> I HAVE SPOKEN WITH STAFF ON PRETTY MUCH ALL THE PROJECTS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. >> I HAVE NOT. >> I HAVE SPOKEN WITH STAFF ON 202400170021, AND THE PAVILION AND RESTROOM BUILDINGS 0015, AS WELL AS THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GUIDELINES. >> GREAT. MORGAN, I DO NOT HAVE AN AGENDA. IF YOU COULD. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> THANK YOU. COUNSEL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES, AND THERE ARE NO VARIANCES TODAY. >> YES. I'VE TALKED WITH A COUPLE OF PEOPLE TODAY WONDERING ABOUT HAVING ONLY FOUR BOARD MEMBERS. THAT IS A QUORUM UNDER OUR CODE AND OUR RULES. THERE IS A QUORUM PRESENT TONIGHT. A TIE VOTE, TWO IS THE MOTION WILL NOT PASS. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AT LEAST THREE VOTES TO PASS ANY MOTION THIS EVENING, WHICH IS THE USUAL COURSE WHEN WE HAVE FOUR MEMBERS. TONIGHT WE HAVE SEVERAL CASES ON THE AGENDA, AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE CONDUCTED AS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS. WHAT THAT MEANS IS FIRST, MS. GIBSON WITH CITY STAFF IS GOING TO MAKE, IN EACH CASE, A PRESENTATION, INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD. I DON'T BELIEVE SHE HAS ANY WITNESSES THIS EVENING, BUT IF SHE DID SHE COULD CALL WITNESSES TOO. A LOT OF THE MATERIALS TONIGHT ARE IN FRONT OF YOU AND HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC SINCE LAST FRIDAY. THOSE ARE PART OF THE RECORD, WHICH INCLUDE FOR EACH CASE STAFF REPORT, PROPERTY OWNERS APPLICATION MATERIALS. YOU'LL SEE DRAWINGS IN THERE, INCLUDING ELEVATIONS AND OTHER DESIGN FEATURES THAT YOU'LL BE DELIBERATING ABOUT TONIGHT. AFTER CITY STAFF MAKES A PRESENTATION, THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER AND/OR THEIR AGENT WILL COME FORWARD TO THE PODIUM. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. THERE'S NO LIMIT ON THE TIME YOU GET TO SPEAK. YOU WILL ALSO BE INTRODUCING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY INTO THE RECORD IN THESE CASES WHEN YOU SPEAK. IF THERE ARE WITNESSES THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER WISHES TO CALL, THEY MAY CALL WITNESSES. AFTER THE PROPERTY OWNER IS FINISHED, THEN ANY AFFECTED PARTIES, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU LIVE IN THE CITY LIMITS, [00:05:01] MAY COME TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND YOU CAN ALSO TESTIFY AND PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY. YOU WILL NOT BE LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU GET TO SPEAK. AFFECTED PARTIES CAN ALSO CALL WITNESSES, AND THE PARTIES ARE THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER, AND AFFECTED PARTIES ARE AFFECTED RESIDENTS. ALL OF THOSE CAN CALL WITNESSES, QUESTION EACH OTHER. IN OTHER WORDS, CROSS EXAMINE. EVERYBODY'S GOT THAT RIGHT TO CROSS EXAMINATION. AFTER ALL THE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, MR. CHAIR WOULD CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THE END OF TAKING YOUR TESTIMONY, AND THEN THE BOARD WILL DELIBERATE AND MAKE A DECISION, AND HOPEFULLY VOTE. DURING THE TESTIMONY OF ANY OF THESE PARTIES, OR AFFECTED PARTIES, THE BOARD IS WELCOME TO ASK QUESTIONS AND ENCOURAGED TO DO SO. APPEALS. ANY DECISION MADE BY THE BOARD TONIGHT, IF ANYBODY WISHES TO APPEAL IT, YOU'D HAVE TO BE A PARTY, OR AN AFFECTED PARTY, TO APPEAL. YOU WOULD FILE THAT APPEAL WITHIN 30 DAYS DIRECTLY TO THE CIRCUIT COURT, 30 DAYS AFTER THE SIGNATURE ON THE FINDINGS OF FACT, WHICH IS ABOUT 35 CALENDAR DAYS FROM NOW. IT TAKES A COUPLE OF DAYS, SOMETIMES, FOR OUR FINDINGS OF FACT TO GET SIGNED. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR PROCEDURES? HOW WE'LL DO THIS TONIGHT? THE BOARD CHAIR IS GOING TO ASK, AND THIS IS FOR EVERY CASE TONIGHT. IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK ON ANY OF THE CASES YOU WILL BE DOING THAT UNDER OATH, AND THE CHAIR WILL ASK THE BOARD SECRETARY TO ADMINISTER THE OATH IN JUST A MINUTE. AGAIN, THAT'S EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT SURE IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK, GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE OATH, AND THEN WE KNOW YOU'RE SWORN IN. OTHER THAN THAT, EX-PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, AND. >> WE CLOSE. >> THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. >> ANYONE WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY THIS EVENING, PLEASE RISE AND TAKE THE OATH. MS. MORGAN. MS. HORNBROOK. >> RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND/OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? >> YES. >> VERY GOOD. CHECK MY NOTES. BOARD MEMBERS, HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE MINUTES FROM THE PRIOR MEETING? [3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES] ANY CHANGES, CONCERNS? >> NO. >> CAN I GET A MOTION ON THOSE MINUTES? >> MOVED. >> SECOND. >> NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. MS. MORGAN, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL CALL. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >> YES. >> MEMBER FILKOFF. >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES. >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO. >> YES. THANK YOU. WE'RE MOVING ON TO NEW BUSINESS, AND MEMBERS THIS IS A FULL AGENDA TONIGHT. IF AT ANY TIME YOU NEED A COMFORT BREAK, PLEASE FEEL FREE AND WE'LL TAKE FIVE MINUTES AS NEEDED SINCE WE'RE ALL CRITICAL TO THESE VOTES TONIGHT. BUT THIS IS A RATHER FULL AGENDA, INCLUDING THE REGULAR CASES AND THEN THE WATERFRONT COURSE, DOWNTOWN, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. A LOT TO LOOK AT. [4.1 HDC 2024-0017 - SARAH GOODMAN, 908 WHITE STREET] MS. GIBSON, HDC2024-0017, GOODMAN ON WHITE STREET, ARE YOU LOOKING TO CONTINUE THAT CASE? >> AT THIS TIME, AS IT PERTAINS TO THIS CASE, THE APPLICANT IS WORKING TO FINALIZE AN UPDATED PLAN SET, SO I'M STILL RECEIVING MORE DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, AND SO I WOULD REQUEST THAT THE BOARD CONSIDER A CONTINUANCE OF THE CASE. IT COULD BE TO A DATE CERTAIN, IDEALLY OCTOBER, AS I KNOW THAT THEY WISH TO PRESERVE KEEPING THIS ACTIVE AND ON THE AGENDA. BUT AT THE TIME THAT IT IS CONTINUED, IT WILL BE FULLY RE-ADVERTISED WITH ALL OF THE DETAILS AS IT IS MORPHING SO THAT IT REFLECTS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING. I KNOW IT'S CHANGED QUITE A BIT FROM JULY UNTIL PRESENT. >> WE WANT TO GET IT RIGHT FOR THEM. CAN I GET A MOTION TO CONTINUE HDC CASE 2024-0017. >> MOVED. >> SECOND. >> MOVED. BYRNES SECOND. FILKOFF. >> IT SHOULD BE TO A DATE CERTAIN, OTHERWISE, IT'S A TABLE. >> THANK YOU. DATE CERTAIN IS OCTOBER. >> SEVENTEEN. >> THANK YOU, COUNSEL. WRITE THAT DOWN. OCTOBER 17, IN CASE IT HAPPENS AGAIN. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL ON THAT CONTINUANCE. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >> YES. >> MEMBER FILKOFF. >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES. >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO. >> YES. THANK YOU. HDC2024-0020 RICE 123 SOUTH 6TH STREET. [4.2 HDC 2024-0020 - RICE ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR JOHN AND LYNN SCROGGIN, 123 S. 6TH STREET] >> GOOD EVENING. THIS IS A CASE FOR 123 SOUTH 6TH STREET, HDC CASE 2024-0020. THE CASE ITSELF IS FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD, REQUESTING TO REMOVE AN EXISTING REAR DECK AND REPLACE IT WITH A NEW SCREENED-IN PORCH. [00:10:08] THIS WOULD BE AN UNCONDITIONED SCREENED-IN PORCH. STAFF HAS FOUND THAT THE PROPOSED REAR ADDITIONS ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO BE APPROVED AT THIS TIME. >> QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR. ARE WE GOOD? IS THIS MR. AIKENS PROJECT? >> YES. >> COME ON UP, MARK. CAN YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD. WE'LL ASK THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER TOO. [LAUGHTER] HE'S LOADING HIS PRESENTATION FOR LATER. >> I WAS WONDERING IF SOMEONE [OVERLAPPING] FOR MY JOB. >> PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF. >> I'M MARK AIKENS WITH RICE ARCHITECT, AND I'M HERE FOR QUESTIONS. >> YOU GOT MY ONE QUESTION. OTHER QUESTIONS? >> NO QUESTIONS. >> IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD PROJECT NOT TAKEN OFF ANYTHING HISTORIC. WHERE'S THE GAS WATER HEATER GOING? >> IT'S, ACTUALLY, ON THE DRAWINGS. WE NEGLECTED TO PUT IT ON THE MODEL. IF YOU LOOK ON THE PLAN VIEW OF THE DRAWING, YOU'LL SEE THAT IT'S BEEN RELOCATED. IN ESSENCE, IT SITS HERE NOW. I'M GOING TO SLIDE IT RIGHT OUT HERE. >> IT'S STILL NOT VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC. [OVERLAPPING] >> VERY GOOD. >> NO CONFLICT WITH THE TREE. >> NO, MA'AM. [INAUDIBLE] CLEAR. > THIS IS A VERY COOL PROJECT. >> THIS IS COOL. >> WAIT UNTIL NEXT MONTH. [OVERLAPPING] >> MARK, I HAD ONE QUESTION. THERE'S AN EXISTING PHOTO OF THE ASPHALT DECK IN THE BACK. THOSE FLATS ON PICKETS, IS THERE ANY AGE TO THOSE? CAN THEY BE SALVAGED AND USED SOMEPLACE ELSE, OR WERE THEY [INAUDIBLE] I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE JIGSAW FLATS ON PICKETS THAT ARE ON IT. [OVERLAPPING]. >> PICTURE OF THE EXISTING IF YOU CAN, PLEASE. >> IT'S PAGE 15. >> IT'S A LITTLE SLOW. THERE WE GO. >> I THINK YOU GUYS BUILT THIS PART, DIDN'T YOU? NO? [LAUGHTER] SORRY. CALLING ON THE AUDIENCE. THEY CERTAINLY COULD BE, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN TO HAVING THEM BE SAVED AND REUSED, IF POSSIBLE. I CAN'T RECALL IF WE ARE HIGH ENOUGH TO REQUIRE A RAILING THERE. JOSE'S NODDING YES. [OVERLAPPING] YES, WE'RE CERTAINLY AMENABLE TO HAVING THOSE REUSED. >> ARE THEY HISTORIC? >> HARD TO SAY. >> I DON'T THINK THAT DECK WAS ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE. [LAUGHTER] >> EVEN IF YOU DON'T REUSE THEM, DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THEM, IF THEY COULD BE SALVAGED. >> I THINK SO. WE'LL PUT SOME NOTES IN PLANS TO RESELL. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? HEARING NONE I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY FOR HDC CASE 2024-0020. IF THERE'S ANYONE HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO THIS CASE, THIS WILL BE THE TIME. SEEING NO ONE WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE INTO MORE DISCUSSION. BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> I LIKE IT. >> I THINK IT LOOKS GREAT. IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. IT WORKS. IT'S GOT SOME UNUSUAL DETAILING WHICH DIFFERENTIATES IT FROM THE OLD, AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD LOOKING [OVERLAPPING] REDO. I WOULD MAKE A MOTION UNLESS THERE'S A DISCUSSION. >> I'M IN AGREEMENT. IT'S A THOUGHTFUL DESIGN. IT WORKS WELL. AGAIN, IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SEEN FROM THE PUBLIC. ALL GOOD. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0020 WITHOUT CONDITIONS. I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD. THAT HDC CASE 2024-20 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. >> SECOND. >> MOVED. KOSACK SECOND. FILKOFF. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, MS. HOLZENDORF PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >>YES. >> MEMBER FILKOFF. >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES. >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO. >> YES. MOVING ON, [4.3 HDC 2024-0021 - WILLIAM AND ANNE KAVANAUGH, AGENTS FOR OLD TOWN PROPERTIES, 808 SAN FERNANDO STREET] HDC CASE 2024-0021, KAVANAGH, 808 SAN FERNANDO. DIRECTOR? >> YES. GIVE THIS IS A CASE LOCATED IN OLD TOWN, AND THE REQUEST IS TO MOVE FROM LOT 9 IN BLOCK 5, A STRUCTURE OVER TO LOT 7. [00:15:02] RIGHT NOW, IT'S SHARED ON A LOT LINE, AND IT WOULD BECOME FULLY ONTO LOT 7. AS PART OF THE REQUEST, THEY ARE LOOKING TO DEMOLISH A REAR LATER ADDITION TO THAT STRUCTURE AS PICTURED ABOVE. THE SITE ITSELF WOULD BECOME CONSISTENT WITH THE OLD TOWN'S STANDARDS FOR DEVELOPMENT IN PLACEMENT AND AS WELL AS LOT COVERAGE. I KNOW THERE HAD BEEN SOME PREVIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DETAILING FOR THE FOUNDATION. EARLY TODAY THOSE ENGINEERING DETAILS WERE PROVIDED TO DEMONSTRATE THE BRICK VENEER PIER FOUNDATION THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED FOR THE NEW STRUCTURE, OR FOR THE SHIFTED STRUCTURE. AS SUCH, THE STAFF HAS FOUND THAT THE RELOCATION OF THIS, AS WELL AS THE DEMOLITION OF THAT LATER ADDITION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE OLD TOWN STANDARDS FOR DEVELOPMENT, AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. >> TELL ME ABOUT THE PEERS, OR SHOULD WE ASK THE APPLICANT [INAUDIBLE] >> EITHER ONE. >> WE'LL GET TO YOU IN A MOMENT, PLEASE. THANK YOU. IT SOUNDS LIKE THE APPLICANT WAS READY TO DISCUSS THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR? >> I HAD ONE, AND I APPRECIATE GETTING THAT THE PEER FOUNDATION. THAT'S VERY HELPFUL FOR THE MOVE. WE ARE STICKING WITH WHAT THE GUIDELINES ASK US TO DO. DO WE HAVE ANY INTERIOR PICTURES, OR EVIDENCE OF THE ADDITION THAT'S BEING DEMOLISHED AS TO THE AGE OR CONDITION OF IT? >> NO. >> OKAY. >> IT LOOKED LIKE AN ADD ON TO ME. >> YEAH, IT DOES. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WAS ADDED ON. >> MAYBE THE APPLICANT CAN HELP US WITH IT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR? PLEASE. >> I'D BE INTERESTED TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THE ADDITION COMES OFF, WHAT DOES THAT BACK WALL LOOK LIKE IN TERMS OF YOU-ALL SIDING WITH WHATEVER HAPPENS TO BE. THEN WHAT ARE THE FUTURE PLANS? I'M PRESUMING THIS IS GOING TO BE POTENTIALLY A PROJECT IN THE FUTURE THAT WE WILL REVIEW. [OVERLAPPING] >> IT POSSIBLY DOES. >> YEAH. [OVERLAPPING] >> COULD YOU COME ON UP, PLEASE, AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD. >> HI. I'M MARY KAVANAGH INHOFE. I'M THE DAUGHTER OF MELANIE AND KAVANAGH, AS THEIR AGENT. >> WELCOME. >> THANK YOU. >> YOUR ADDRESS I'M SORRY? >> SORRY? >> YOUR ADDRESS. >> I LIVE AT 708 SAN FERNANDO STREET IN OLD TOWN. >> YOU LOOK JUST LIKE THEM. >> [LAUGHTER] RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM HIS HOUSE? >> YES THAT'S RIGHT. >> I THINK WE HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT ONE I HEARD WAS, TELL US ABOUT THE PEERS AND TELL US ABOUT THE ADDITION THAT'S GOING TO BE DONE. DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF THE AGE OF THAT ADDITION? >> I DO NOT, AND I DO NOT HAVE PICTURES. IT'LL BE FULL BRICK VENEER. >> COOL. >> I CAN PASS THIS, I THINK YOU GUYS. >> I THINK WE SEE THAT PRETTY GOOD FROM HERE. >> THEY'LL BE THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE STAIRS THAT ARE THERE NOW, IT WILL BE THE EXACT SAME HEIGHT THERE. IT'LL BE CEMENT ON THE INSIDE AND THE BRICK VENEER ON THE OUTSIDE. >> BUT FULL BRICK VENEER. >> YES. CORRECT. >> NICE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> ANY SENSE OF THE AGE OF THE ADDITION. I'M SORRY, YOU MAY HAVE ANSWERED THAT, I MISSED. >> LET ME SEE IF I HAVE THAT INFORMATION AS WELL. I KNOW THAT THE CONDITION IS POOR AND THERE WAS CONCERNS ABOUT MOVING THAT AND IT WOULD LIKELY NOT BE ABLE TO STAY INTACT. BUT I CAN GET BACK WITH THE DATE OF WHEN THE ADDITION WAS MADE, AND THEN ALSO PHOTOS OF THE INTERIOR IF THAT HELPS AS WELL. >> I'M NOT SURE THAT HELPS. THIS IS A VERY COOL PROJECT. I'M JUST REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS IN PART BECAUSE THIS HOUSE LOOKS A LOT LIKE A HOUSE THAT WE RENOVATED HERE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. IT'S LIKE, OH, I'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE. WE DIDN'T HAVE TO MOVE OURS. THE NICE THING IS, IT GETS OVER A FULL LOT. ALTHOUGH I WAS ASTOUNDED WHEN I WAS OUT THERE, YOU REMINDED HOW SMALL THOSE LOTS ARE. WHAT IS IT 93 BY 47? >> YES. >> DOWNTOWN LOTS ARE 50 BY 100 AND THEY'RE SMALL, AND THEN WE GO OUT THERE AND THEY'RE EVEN SMALLER. IT'S EXTRAORDINARY. BUT IT DOES FREE UP THAT ONE-AND-HALF LOTS FOR FURTHER CONSTRUCTION? >> CORRECT AND BASED ON THE I'M NOT SURE IF MY DAD HAS DESIGNS CREATED AT THIS TIME, BUT IT WILL STILL BE A COTTAGE, ONE STORY HOME THAT WILL BE THERE. I THINK WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE ADDITION IN THE BACK, [00:20:02] THERE WILL BE JUST A COUPLE OF ROOMS ADDED. >> YOU'RE PREVIEWING FOR US THAT YOU'LL BE BACK? >> YES. THAT'S CORRECT. >> AFTER IT'S MOVED, SETTLED IN TO GET DRAWINGS, AND THEN WE'LL SEE THE ADDITION ON THE BACK. >> YES. THAT'S RIGHT. >> IT'S VERY COOL HOUSE. GREAT. QUESTIONS. >> THE SURVEY NOTES A NEW DRIVEWAY. JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOME EXISTING CONCRETE MAYBE PAVEMENT OR SOMETHING ON THE SURVEY. IT'S ON PAGE 12 OF 13 OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE. WHAT IS THAT BACK THE SIDING OF THE BACK OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE? IS THE SIDING STILL THERE OR HAS IT BEEN REMOVED? >> I CANNOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION AT THIS TIME. >> IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GUYS HAVE A NEW ROOF ON THERE, TOO. THAT WAS DONE JUST RECENTLY. >> HARD TO SAY. >> THE NOVELTY, I THINK WAS TYPICAL FROM ABOUT THE 1930S ON. THAT WOULD GIVE US A SENSE OF HOW. >> THAT'S WHAT CUED ME TO THAT BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE SIDING OF THE ORIGINAL FOR THIS STEP BOARD DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. >> OH, I'M SORRY. WE SHOULD FINISH DO THE PUBLIC ANNUNCIATION. >> I DO HAVE A QUESTION. >> PLEASE. >> DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THIS HOUSE WAS EVER MOVED BEFORE? >> NO. >> OKAY. >> YOU DON'T KNOW OR IT WASN'T MOVED? >> BASED ON CONVERSATIONS AROUND THE HISTORICAL OF THE HOME, I BELIEVE, NO. >> THANK YOU. >> WE'VE GOT ANOTHER WITNESS? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF THERE'S ANYONE HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARD TO THE CASE 20 I'M SORRY. I LOST MY PLACE HERE, 2024-0021-80810 FOR NON DISTRICT [INAUDIBLE]. SEEING NO ONE CLOSED PULL CARING, MOVE IN TO BOARD DISCUSSION. I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU, TAMMY IS WHAT WE ALWAYS ASK IS THAT SOME ARCHITECTURAL RECORD BE KEPT OF WHAT COMES OFF THE HOUSE? I THINK SO AND I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR WITH WHAT OUR GUIDELINES ARE AND OUR PURVIEW IS, WE HAVE A VERY CLEAR DATE. IT'S FROM 1974 PRIOR. THAT'S THE KEY DATE THAT'S IN THERE, THE 50 YEARS OR WE HAVE A 50 YEAR. LET'S GO THAT WAY. WHEN I SAW THE NOVELTY SIDING, LIKE I KNOW I HAD A LITTLE ADDITION ON MINE THAT WAS TACKED ON IN THE '30S, AND THERE WAS SOME REALLY COOL STUFF IN THERE, BUT WE DID A FULL SET OF PLANS AND DRAWINGS AND HAVE THE SHED ROOF ON IT. I HAVE ENOUGH FOR POSTERITY AND SO WE HAVE THOSE PLANS. [OVERLAPPING] PHOTOS AND DIMENSIONS OF HOW THIS EVOLVED IN ITS ORIGINAL PLACE. I THINK MIGHT BE HELPFUL. NOT TO TIE THIS UP, BUT MAYBE IF THAT IS AN ADDITION THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE. >> CONDITION. >> A CONDITION. >> A VERY REASONABLE CONDITION. >> I THINK VERONICA MAKES A REALLY GOOD POINT ABOUT WHAT IS ON THE BACK THERE, JUST TO BE AWARE OF THAT WHEN THEY RIP IT APART, WHAT'S STILL BACK THERE, IF ANYTHING. >> TO BE SALVAGED. >> I'M SORRY. >> JUST TO BE SALVAGED. WHATEVER IT IS. >> BECAUSE IT HAS SIX OUT SIX WINDOWS STILL. IT'S NOT LIKE A 1990S TACK ON OR 1980 TACK ON. >> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE COMING UP WITH SOME FAIRLY REASONABLE CONDITIONS THAT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, TAMMY HELP ME OUT HERE. OLD TOWN GUIDELINES DIFFERENT WITH REGARD TO THIS? NOT THAT TIME IN THIS TIME. WITH TAMMY GUIDELINES DIFFERENT RELATIVE TO. >> I'M IN THE OLD TOWN GUIDELINES. >> I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT MY WILL. ARE THEY DIFFERENT THAN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES OR THEY'RE THE SAME. >> IT STILL HAS THE SAME DEMOLITION. >> IF THEY WANTED TO DEMO THIS HOUSE, THOUGH THEY COULD HAVE, RIGHT? >> WITH PERMISSION. >> IF WE APPROVED IT. THEY COULD HAVE ASKED TO DEMO THE HOUSE. INSTEAD, THEY'RE MOVING IT, MAKING IT AND OBVIOUSLY COMMITTING TO IT FOR THE LONG TERM. IT WAS REALLY COOL. IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME CONDITIONS ON THE DEMO COMPONENT. TAMMY, DO YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE COMFORTABLE MAKING THOSE AS PART OF THE MOTION? >> SURE. ANYBODY WANTS TO JUMP IN. IT'LL BE FINE BUT WHAT CASE DO WE ON? >> 2024. >> '21. >> '21. >> SORRY '21. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2024 '21 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDES A SIMPLE SET OF DRAWINGS WITH DIMENSION DRAWING OF THE DEMOLITION REQUESTED PART OF THE BUILDING, AND SOME INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR PHOTOS FOR THE FILE OF THE REQUESTED DEMOLITION PORTION. [00:25:07] IS THAT SUFFICIENT? >> GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. >> I MOVE THAT THE ACC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS ARE PART OF THE LAW OF THE RECORD, THAT HCC CASE 2024 '21, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE OLD TOWN SERMDINA PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. >> SECOND. >> MEMBER KOSACK, SECOND PHILKO. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? >> NO. >> I WOULD JUST SAY THIS IS A REALLY COOL PROJECT. THANK YOU FOLKS FOR MOVING THIS FORWARD BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY COOL TO PRESERVE THIS INTERESTING HOUSE AND IT'S A VERY CREATIVE SOLUTION TO THAT LAND DEVELOPMENT PROBLEM. THANK YOU. JUST TO BE SURE, THOSE CONDITIONS ARE ALL RIGHT? >> YES. >> COOL. MS. ODOR FOR YOU, PLEASE CALL ROLL. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >> YES. >> MEMBER PHILKO. >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES? >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO. >> YES. FROM MY SLUMBER, 2024-0019. [4.4 HDC 2024-0019 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR DREW AND ELIZABETH RICE, 30 N. 6TH STREET] ARE WE AT 30 NORTH 6TH STREET NOW? >> YES, WE ARE. JUST GOING FROM ONE SIDE TO SIX TO THE OTHER. >> YES. GOOD EVENING. THIS IS A CASE TO ADD AN ELEVATOR SHAFT LOCATED AT 30 NORTH 6TH STREET. THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING FINAL APPROVAL FOR AN ADDITION. IT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE REAR ENTRY STOOP, AND TO REPLACE THE EXISTING BRICK STEPS, SIDEWALK, AND WOODEN RAILINGS. THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS CONSISTENT IN TERMS OF MASSING AND SCALE, TIED TO THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE THERE. IT DOES MEET THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE STANDARDS, AS WELL AS THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION, AND AS SUCH, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. >> QUESTIONS FOR DIRECTOR GIBSON. >> NO. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. JUST ONE NOTE THAT IT WAS LISTED AS NON CONTRIBUTING AND THIS IS A VERY BEAUTIFULLY CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE. >> YES. I BELIEVE THE MASTER SITE FILE HAD BEEN PROVIDED THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR THAT. >> I MISSED THE IMAGE ON THIS HOUSE. >> 1925. >> 1897. >> THESE ARE THE FOLKS THAT DEMO THE GARAGE, PUT IN THE POOL? >> YEAH. PUTTING ON TOP. >> PUTTING IN THE POOL. >> ON THE RIGHT. NEXT TO THE CHURCH ON THE ONE SIDE. YOUR ADDRESS IS ON SIX. GOT YOU. >> IT'S A STEEP SLOPE IN THE BACK. >> YOU KEEP COMING BACK. >> WE'RE GOOD. SHOULD WE CALL UP THE APPLICANT? >> WHO'S REPRESENTING? JOSE IS THAT YOU? PLEASE COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF ON RECORD? >> YES. JOSE MIRANDA, MIRANDA ARCHITECTS, 309.5 CENTER STREET. IT'S A PRETTY SIMPLE ADDITION. OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE TRYING TO ASSIST THE RISES IN BEING ABLE TO AGE IN PLACE, AND THEY NEEDED VERTICAL ACCESSIBILITY FOR THE MASTER BEDROOM IN THE SECOND FLOOR. WE PUT IT ON THE REALLY THE MOST LOGICAL LOCATION, SANDWICHED BETWEEN THEM AND THE MEMORIAL METHODIST CHURCH FELLOWSHIP HOME. AGAIN, WE CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATED BETWEEN OLD AND NEW, KEPT IT APPROPRIATELY SCALED SO THAT IT TUCKS UNDERNEATH THE ROOF LINES AND AVOIDS IMPACTING ANY OF THE EXISTING WINDOWS WITH A SIMPLE ROOF LINE THAT'S A SHED. IT'LL HAVE METAL ROOFING, IT'LL HAVE HARDY SIDING AND A 5.5 INCH EXPOSURE. I'M HERE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. >> QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA. >> WHAT'S THE FOUNDATION OF THE NEW STRUCTURE AND THE OLD? >> THE EXISTING STRUCTURES ON PIERS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN FILLED BETWEEN THE PIERS WITH CONCRETE BLOCK. THE ELEVATOR WILL BE CONCRETE BLOCK FOUNDATION BECAUSE IT'S REQUIRED TO HAVE THAT. BUT THE PORCH WILL BE PIER CONSTRUCTION OFF GRADE FRAME ON THE BACK. >> VERY GOOD. >> JOSE, WITH THE HARDY BOARD. I CAN'T REMEMBER IF THIS IS THE TINY WATERFALL ON THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, THE LAUGH. ARE YOU CHANGING THE EXPOSURE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE HARDY? >> NO. WHAT WE'VE DONE IS TRY TO GET US CLOSE TO IT WITH WHAT'S AVAILABLE IN THE HARDY PRODUCT, BUT IT'S SUCH A CLEAR DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN [OVERLAPPING]. >> WITH THE MATERIAL? >> YEAH. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO COME UP WITH. AGAIN, IT'S JUST NOT VERY VISIBLE ON THAT SIDE, AS YOU IMAGINE. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> YEAH. HEAVILY WOODED. IT'S LIKE, WILL ANYBODY SEE IT? [LAUGHTER] MAYBE THE BACKSIDE. >> I THINK IT STANDS OUT MORE IN THE DRAWING THAN IT WILL [OVERLAPPING] >> THAT'S TRUE. [OVERLAPPING]. >> ACTUALLY THE BACK LOOKS REALLY COOL. >> YEAH. I KNOW. >> ALL THE DIFFERENT MASSINGS. >> YES. >> IT'S NICE. IT'S LIKE, REALLY GOOD. BALANCES. >> WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THESE PROJECTS, AREN'T WE? >> ESSENTIALLY, THE TREND. [00:30:03] PEOPLE WANT TO HANG ONTO THEIR HISTORIC HOMES, BUT THEY'VE GOT TO MAKE THEM LIVABLE AS THEY AGE TO GO. >> WHICH GOING TO HAVE AFTER WE CAN GET. >> YEAH. IT'S IMPORTANT. YES, WE'RE SEEING A LOT MORE OF THESE. >> REMINDS ME OTHER HOMES. ARE THE QUESTIONS FOR MS. MAINE? BARLEY? >> NO. I'M FINE. >> THEN WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR CASE 2024-0019. THIS IS 30 NORTH 6TH DISTRICT. DOES THERE ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO THIS CASE? CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING. MOVING TO BOARD DISCUSSION? I DIDN'T HEAR ANY CONDITIONS. COME OUT OF THAT ONE. >> I THINK IT'S AMAZING. LOOKS REALLY, REALLY THOUGHTFUL AND VERY WELL DONE. NICELY INTEGRATED. >> WELL, JOSE. CAN SOMEBODY MAKE A MOTION? >> I HAVE IT. >> THANK YOU. >> I MOVED TO APPROVE HCC CASE NUMBER 2024 -9 WITHOUT CONDITIONS. I MOVE THAT THE ACC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD. THAT HDC CASE 2024-19 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. >> SECOND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MS. ODOR, PLEASE CALL ROLL. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >> YES. >> MEMBER PHILKO. >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES. >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO? >> YES. BRILLIANT. >> MOVING ON TO HDC 2024-0022, [4.5 HDC 2024-0022 - CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, 204 ASH STREET] 204 ASH STREET, REPLACEMENT OF 15 NON-ORIGINAL WINDOWS ON THE FIRST FLOOR, DIRECTOR? >> YES. GOOD EVENING. THIS CASE IS FOR 2024-22, AND IT IS FOR 204 ASH STREET. THIS IS TO REPLACE ON THE FIRST FLOOR, THE WEST SIDE OF CITY HALL WINDOWS WHICH HAVE BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL AND THEY ARE EXISTING NON-HISTORIC WINDOWS. THE REQUEST IS TO REPLACE ALL OF THEM WITH WINDOWS THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY ON THE APPROVED WINDOWS LIST. THERE IS ONE CHANGE IN AN OPENING OF A 1/1 TO A FIXED WINDOW DUE TO THE SIZE OF THAT WINDOW. AN OPERABLE WINDOW IS NOT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE ORDERED, AND IT WILL BE STAINLESS STEEL FINISH. IT WILL LOOK IDENTICAL TO THE OTHER WINDOWS THAT ARE THERE TODAY THAT YOU SEE. THEY'RE JUST REPLACING THEM OUT WITH EXCEPTION OF THE ONE THAT WILL BECOME A FIXED WINDOW.[NOISE] >> QUESTIONS FOR MISS GARSON. >> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT PROCESS WISE, WE WOULD NORMALLY ASK PEOPLE TO COME HERE BEFORE THE PURCHASE? >> THAT IS TRUE. ABSOLUTELY. >> THIS WAS A SITUATION WHERE THE PROCESS WAS NOT FOLLOWED, BUT THERE REALLY WASN'T MUCH OF A CHOICE. IS THAT A FAIR WAY TO SAY IT? >> THERE IS ONLY ONE TYPE OF WINDOW THAT WOULD FIT, AND UNFORTUNATELY WE CANNOT PROVE IT AT A STAFF LEVEL. >> IS THERE ANY INKLING OF A PLAN TO TRY TO RESTORE ANY OF THIS BUILDING? >> NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. >> OKAY. >> ARE YOU ANSWERING ALL THE QUESTIONS THIS EVENING ON THIS? >> I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. I KNOW THAT OTHERS ARE PRESENT AND CAN ALSO ANSWER QUESTIONS. I CAN SPEAK TO THE NATURE OF THAT COMMENT, THOUGH THAT THE MID CENTURY TIME-FRAME FOR THE REHABILITATION OF THE STRUCTURE IS IN AND OF ITSELF HISTORIC AT THIS TIME, AND THE STYLE OF WINDOWS THAT THESE ARE BEING REPLACED WITH ARE COMPLIMENTARY TO WHAT EXISTS TODAY VERSUS THE EARLIER IN THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION THAT WE WOULD HAVE SEEN ON THE STRUCTURE. PARTICULARLY AS THIS WAS IN ADDITION TO THAT ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND THE LOCATION OF THESE WINDOWS ARE PART OF THAT ADDITION. >> ONE OF THE DETAILS ON ONE OF THE DRAWING SHEETS, IT LOOKS LIKE IT SHOWS SOME EXPOSED WOOD ON THE EXTERIOR, WHICH CONCERNS ME. JUST IN TERMS OF DURABILITY IN THE FUTURE, AND IS THERE ANY PLAN AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THERE A PLAN TO WRAP IT IN FLASHING OR PROTECT IT AND I'LL FIND THE DETAIL AGAIN AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE LIKE STANDARD STORE FRONT OR CURTAIN WALL DETAILS FROM A MANUFACTURER. IT'S ONE WINDOW WHERE I THINK IT'S AN OFF SIZE WHERE IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE SOME SHIMS, BUT ANY, [00:35:01] I THINK EXPOSED WOOD ON THE EXTERIOR WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH IT IN THE FUTURE WITH IT ROTTING UNLESS IT'S WRAPPED IN FLASHING. THAT'S A CONCERN. I THINK OVERALL, THE DESIGN WORKS WELL AND IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE BUILDING SO. >> OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR? I DIDN'T KNOW IF ANY OTHER CITY STAFF HAD ANYTHING ELSE I WANTED TO ADD. IF NOT, WE'LL GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF THERE'S ANYBODY HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 2024-0022, 204 ASH STREET 15 NON ORIGINAL WINDOW REPLACEMENT AT THIS IS BE TIME. SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION. I THINK YOU RAISED A GOOD POINT. THAT CAN'T. >> IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT, LET'S DO IT RIGHT. >> I DON'T WANT TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE WE PROVE IT'S NOT BUILDABLE OR NOT RIGHT, SO WE GO TO WRAP THAT FLASHING OR? >> I WOULD IMAGINE IT WILL NOT REMAIN EXPOSED. >> OKAY. >> I THINK THAT'S A SUFFICIENT COMMITMENT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IT'S NOT GOING TO REMAIN EXPOSED. >> YES. I'M HAPPY TO HELP WITH THAT IN THE FUTURE IF THEY NEED SOME GUIDANCE. >> THANK YOU. >> I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK TO ARLENE'S COMMENT. FOR CLARIFICATION PROCEDURALLY, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER IF SOMEBODY APPLIES BEFORE PURCHASE. IT SHOULD BE APPLYING BEFORE INSTALLATION IF THEY WANT TO MAKE THAT, CALCULATED RISK THAT I'LL GET APPROVED, I'M GOING TO PURCHASE THESE. THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT I THINK THAN INSTALLATION AND GETTING AN AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE WE HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHEN SOMEBODY MIGHT TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES TO BUY SOMETHING IN ADVANCE. I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN HOLD ANYBODY'S FEET TO THE BOTTOM. >> NO. BUT THE SPIRIT OF THE PROCESS AND JEREMIAH AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS, SO I KNOW WHERE HE IS ON IT AND HE'S WHERE I AM ON IT. I JUST FEEL THAT WE NEED TO SWEEP AROUND OUR OWN DOOR. >> HAVE LIKE A FULL PLAN TO KNOW WHERE WE'RE HEADING. >> YES. >> YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT. >> VERY REASONABLE PERSPECTIVE. IF THAT CONCLUDES BOARD DISCUSSION, THEN HOW CAN WE DO MOTION? >> YEAH. IF I CAN FIND IT. IF I CAN FIND THE GARBAGE. >> MR. CHAIR, DID YOU OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? >> WELL, DID I. >> GOOD. >> MY SHORT TERM IS NOT LETTING ME[LAUGHTER] >> THE MEETINGS VERY EFFICIENTLY. I'VE MISSED IT. THANKS. >> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S TOO CONCERNED ABOUT THE [INAUDIBLE] >> OKAY. >> I'LL DO A MOTION. >> THANK YOU. >> I MOVED TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0022 WITHOUT CONDITIONS AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2024-0022 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE CONFERENCE OF PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. >> SECOND. >> AT YOUR CONVENIENCE. >> MEMBER KOSACK? >> YES. >> MEMBER PHILKO? >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES? >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO? >> YES. THANK YOU. ONTO 2024-0023 ALACHUA STREET SCAPE IMPROVEMENTS [4.6 HDC 2024-0023 - CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, ALACHUA STREET] AND THE CROSSING, DIRECTOR? >> YES. GOOD EVENING. JUST AS YOU DESCRIBED, THIS IS A REQUEST TO CONSIDER THE STREETS CAPE IMPROVEMENTS IN SUPPORT OF THE RAILROAD CROSSING ALONG ALACHUA STREET. I WILL NOTE THAT THE IMAGE THAT YOU'RE SEEING THIS EVENING IS DIFFERENT THAN THAT WHICH IS PROVIDED AS PART OF YOUR PACKET. IT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAILED PROVIDING FOR THE CROSSINGS, AS WELL AS MORE INFORMATION THAT'S CALLED OUT TO SUPPORT THE TYPE OF MATERIALS THAT ARE PROVIDED AND SO THIS IS PART OF THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA. IT IS INTENDED TO BLEND WITH THE HISTORIC DOWNTOWN, BUT IS WITHIN A DIFFERENT DESIGN AREA AND IT IS REQUIRED THAT THE BOARD REVIEW ALL PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND GOVERNMENTAL PROJECTS, AND THAT IS WHY YOU'RE SEEING IT HERE THIS EVENING. IT IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH OUR DESIGN REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT AREA AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. >> QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON? [00:40:03] >> YES. MY CONCERN WITH THIS AND I REALIZE THAT THERE'S NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE'S ANY DRAINAGE IN THE STREET IN THAT AREA. IS THERE ANY PLANS IN THE FUTURE FOR THE CITY TO PUT SOME DRAINAGE AND CONNECT IT TO A BIGGER PART OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF DOWNTOWN TO RESOLVE SOME OF THE DRAINAGE ISSUES, WATER ISSUES THAT WE SEE SPECIFICALLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. BUT OVERALL AND I RODE ALL AROUND THERE AND LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO CONNECT TO. IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE IS, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME PLANS TO AT LEAST ADD DRAINAGE HERE TO SOLVE PART OF THE ISSUES, SINCE WE'RE GOING TO PAVE THIS ANYWAY, SO THAT'S MY FIRST COMMENT. THE SECOND COMMENT IS, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT KNOWING THIS. WHAT HAPPENS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACKS? IS THE ROAD GOING TO CONTINUE OR IS IT? >> IT CONNECTS TO FRONT STREET. >> YEAH, IT WILL ACTUALLY CONNECT TO FRONT STREET, AND PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO DRIVE OVER THE TRACKS THERE? >> YES. >> GOT IT. OKAY. >> PERHAPS I SHOULD CALL UP THE FERNANDINA CITY MANAGER. >> JEREMIAH IF YOU CAN COME, IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. >> THANK YOU, JEREMIAH GLISSON INTERIM CITY MANAGER, AND I CAN SPEAK TO THAT. THIS IS STREETS CAPE PLAN AND TO YOUR TWO QUESTIONS. ONE, A MAJOR STORM FRENCH DRAIN SYSTEM HAS BEEN DESIGNED AND IS ACTUALLY LATER ON THIS WEEK, AND I'LL REVIEW THAT ON OUR PROJECT UPDATE TOWARD THE END OF THE MEETING. IT'S BEING SUBMITTED TO BOTH ST. JOHNS AND THE CORE. THIS IS OUR A5 STORM DRAINAGE PROJECT, SO IT'S GOING TO COMPLETELY TAKE CARE OF THIS ENTIRE AREA, SECOND FRONT STREET, ALACHUA. TO YOUR SECOND QUESTION, WHAT HAPPENS HERE? YES, IT'S GOING TO PUT RIGHT THROUGH FRONT STREET, AND WE'LL BE REPAVING FRONT STREET, WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER LATER ON THE MEETING, AND THAT WILL HAVE ACCESS TO BOTH DIRECTIONS AND WITHIN FRONT STREET. >> THANK YOU. >> ADDITIONALLY, YOU DON'T SEE ANY LIGHTING ELEMENTS THERE, THIS IS OUTSIDE THE DOWNTOWN FOOTPRINT. OUR HISTORIC LIGHTS ARE WITHIN THAT. BUT WE WILL MAKE PROVISIONS FOR THAT WHEN WE GO TO DO THE SIDEWALK CURVING WORK SO THAT IF WE ADD LIGHTING IN THE FUTURE, WE COULD BE ABLE TO USE OUR DOWNTOWN LIGHTS WITHIN THIS AREA. >> THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION. THAT AS I SAY, WE HAVE NO MECHANICALS, WITH NO LIGHTING OR BULBS. >> DON'T GO AWAY. >> DON'T GO AWAY. >> OTHER QUESTIONS. >> JEREMIAH, HOW DOES THIS DOVETAIL WITH THE PROPOSED PLAN FOR STANDARD MARINE AND THERE EGRESS AND ACCESS AND DOES IS IT? >> THAT'S TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. MR. FLANNERY'S PROPERTY, THESE DRIVEWAY ACCESSES. OF COURSE, YOU HAVE CRAB TRAP ON THIS SIDE, ACCESS TO CITY'S LIFT STATION. ALSO, SOMETHING WE'RE IN TALKS WITH MR. FLANNERY ABOUT, AS YOU SEE THE FUTURE SIDEWALK THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE ALREADY SEED A PROPOSAL THAT WILL PROVIDE CONNECTIVITY FROM THE SIDEWALK THAT ENDS IN FRONT OF SALTY PELICAN ON DOWN TO A ALACHUA, SO YOU'LL GET THAT CIRCULATION PEDESTRIAN WISE AND VEHICULAR WISE. >> WHAT IS LSV PARKING? >> LOW SPEED VEHICLE. >> THAT'S TAKEN EVERY SPOT THAT WE CAN GET TO CRAM ANOTHER ONE IN THERE IF WE CAN. WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT SOME OF THE PARKING IN DOWNTOWN TOO LATER SEEPING. >> JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD THAT, SO CRAB TRAP, STANDARD MARINE, THE OTHER PROPERTIES ARE GOING TO HAVE ADEQUATE GRASS? >> CORRECT. >> WE STILL GET PARKING, AND WE GET THE SIDEWALK. >> RIGHT NOW A LOT OF THIS IS WAITING ON THE RAILROAD. WELL, WE'RE LOOKING FOR APPROVAL FOR YOU ALL, BUT THEY'VE APPROVED THE FUNDING FOR THE PAVING, FOR SIDEWALK CURVING, STORE DRAINAGE ELEMENTS, AND THE RAILROAD AGREEMENT. THAT WAS NEARLY $1 MILLION PAYMENT TO THE FIRST COAST RAILROAD FOR THEM PUTTING THAT OPENING IN THERE. THE SIGNALING AND ALL, WHICH IS NOT REALLY DETAILED ON THE PLAN, BUT YOU'LL HAVE BOTH PEDESTRIAN AND VEHICULAR SIGNALING, JUST LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE HERE AT ASH STREET. >> IN ESSENCE, ONCE WE GET ALL OF THE COMPONENTS PUT TOGETHER, YOU'RE DOING THE DRAINAGE FIRST, AND THEN YOU'RE BASICALLY DOING ANY SUBTERRANEAN UTILITIES, BOXES, JUNCTIONS, AND THEN CURB AND GUTTER AND THE LANDSCAPE ELEMENT. IS THAT ALL PART OF THIS PLAN OR IS THAT JUST[OVERLAPPING] >> YES, IT IS. THEN WE PAVE AT THE VERY LAST BECAUSE WHEN THE RAILROAD COMES IN, NO TRAINS BECAUSE WE HAVE TO PAVE NOT ONLY UP TO THE RAILROAD, BUT IN BETWEEN THE TRACKS KIND OF THING. >> CORRECT. >> YEAH, THAT WOULD BE THE LAST DETAIL WOULD BE THE PAVING.[OVERLAPPING] WE'RE TRYING TO TIME EVERYTHING SO THAT WHEN WE DO THE STORM BRING STUFF, YOU'RE TEARING UP THE ROAD, WHICH THERE'S NO TRAFFIC THERE NOW, SO THERE'S A BENEFITS NOT LIKE THIS A ACTIVE STREET. BUT WHEN WE DO GO TO PAVE, WE CAN WORK WITH THE RAILROAD, MAKE SURE THE TRAINS ARE COMING, HAD THE FLAGGER INSURANCE AND ALL THAT STUFF TO US. >> WILL YOU ANTICIPATE HAVING TO THROW SOME DOLLARS AT FRONT STREET RIGHT IN THERE WHERE, THAT'S PRETTY DEGRADED. >> THAT'S ON WHERE WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER TONIGHT. >> OKAY. THEN LAST THING, [00:45:02] CAN WE GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO PUTTING SOME TREES IN OTHER THAN PALMS IN THAT AREA, JUST LIKE SOME LIVE OAKS AND SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY GOING TO HELP US WITH WIND MITIGATION. THAT AREA TAKES A BEATING OVER THERE AND IT WOULD BE REALLY NICE IF WE COULD GET SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE SUBSTANTIAL THAN PALM TREE. >> I'M SURE WE COULD PUT IN AT LEAST A COUPLE OF THOSE ISLANDS THERE. WE COULD FIT. >> YEAH, WE COULD DO THAT. >> CONSIDER IT ON. >> SURE. >> JEREMIAH, THIS COULD BE PART OF THE NEXT PRESENTATION TOO. BUT AT ONE TIME, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT TURNING OFF FRONT STREET ONTO ALACHUA AND NOT BEING ABLE TO PROCEED UP FRONT STREET FROM THAT POINT. IS THAT STILL THE PLAN? >> THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED THERE'S NO PLAN TO DO THAT YET. UNTIL WE OPEN IT UP, AND THEN WE CAN START IDENTIFYING, WE HAVE FUNDS BUDGETED FOR A TRAFFIC CIRCULATION STUDY GOING INTO THIS YEAR TO ADDRESS PEDESTRIAN AND VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. WE'RE DELAYING THAT STUDY, YOU DO IT RIGHT NOW, WHEN YOU OPEN UP THAT ROAD THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING, YOUR DATE IS ALREADY OUTDATED. THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL IS TO HAVE THAT STUDY DONE TO THEN BETTER MAKE THE DECISION, DO WE ONE WAY PART OF FRONT STREET, IF SO WHERE THE ENTIRE LENGTH, THAT KIND OF STUFF, YEAH. IF YOU WERE TO DO THAT, THERE'S BENEFITS OF ON STREET PARKING ALONG PARTS OF FRONT STREET, THE SIDEWALK AS WELL, MAYBE ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF FRONT. WE'LL LOOK AT THAT, BUT WE NEED TO GET OPEN FIRST, GET THE DATA, AND THEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. >> WERE GOOD? >> THEN WE WILL GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING WITH REGARDS TO CASE 2024-0023, THE ALACHUA STREET IMPROVEMENTS. IS THERE ANYBODY HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK IN REGARD TO THIS? TIM, COME ON UP. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD. >> 10TH GRADE, 11TH, 19 SOMERUELUS STREET. I GOT A QUESTION. IS THERE ANY TREES THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE REMOVED? >> NO, I DON'T THINK SO. >> ANY TREES TO BE REMOVED? >> I DON'T THINK SO. >> INTERESTING. >> THERE ARE NO TREES? >> THERE ARE NO TREES THERE. >> THERE ARE NO TREES. >> NO, THERE'S NO TREES THERE. >> SO WHEN YOU PUT THIS ROAD IN THROUGH, HOW'S IT GOING TO BE CALCULATED BY THE NUMBER OF TREES YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IN? AND THIS IS WHAT I'M GETTING AT, I'VE HEARD TREES MENTIONED SEVERAL TIMES TONIGHT, AND I'VE HEARD YOU MENTIONED THE SMALL LOTS IN OLD TOWN. WELL, THE CITY HAS COME UP WITH THIS FOR EVERY 2,500 SQUARE FEET. >>> MR. CHAIR, THIS ISN'T REALLY RELEVANT TO THE HEARING. >> WELL, I'M JUST ASKING. >> YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WHEN WE ARE NOT CREATING A RECORD OF RELEVANT AND SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. >> HOW MANY TREES ARE YOU GOING TO PUT IN? THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. >> WE'LL PUT IN WHAT WE CAN WITHIN THOSE GREEN SPACE. >> BUT THERE WAS NO TREES. OR DO YOU DO YOU HAVE TO? THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. DO YOU HAVE TO PUT TREES IN THERE? >> NOT WITHIN THE RIGHT AWAY. >> YOU DON'T HAVE TO. >> NO. LANDSCAPE. WE HAVE A SLIP AND CHANGE MODEL. >> I'M JUST ASKING. >> IT'S A FINE QUESTION. IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THAT. WE GENERALLY SPEAKING, DON'T HAVE A STREET ESCAPE TREE REQUIREMENT. I THINK IT'S A FAIR WAY TO SAY THAT. IT'S DIFFERENT THAN A RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. >> THAT'S FAIR. >> DIRECTOR, IS THAT FAIR? >> ANYBODY ELSE WHO WISH TO SPEAK? IF NOT, WE'LL CLOSE A PUBLIC HEARING, MOVE IN TO BOARD DISCUSSION WITH REGARDS TO 200023 ALACHUA STREET STATE IMPROVEMENTS. I THINK THE THING THAT STRUCK ME HERE INSIDE OF THIS IS THAT THERE'S SO MANY MOVING PARTS BETWEEN THE STORM WATER, THE RAILROAD. WE JUST SAW THIS ON BEACH STREET. STORM WATER THEN TWO WEEKS OF RAIN. >> AND IT WORKED. >> IT WORKED. >> IT WORKED. AND NOW THEY'RE PAVED, WHICH IS PRETTY COOL. >> YEAH, IT'S COOL. >> OTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO MOVE THIS? ARE THERE ANY CONDITION? I DIDN'T HEAR ANY CONDITIONS. >> I'D JUST LIKE THEM TO LOOK AT THE TREE. >> I BELIEVE I HEARD THE CITY MANAGER AGREE. >> THE OTHER THING IS NOT JUST WIND MITIGATION, BUT ALSO THEN WITH THOSE CABBAGE PALMS, WE HAVE THAT MAINTENANCE ISSUE. AND THERE'S SO MUCH WIND UP THERE. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE TRIMMING AND PICKING UP PALM FRONDS. >> THIS IS YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. A COUPLE OF BLOCKS FROM YOUR HOUSE? >> YEAH, I DRIVE MY BIKE AND PICK UP PALM FRONDS UP THERE AND CHUCK THEM. >> WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? >> SO MOVED [LAUGHTER]. >> WELL, YOU GOT IT. I DO IT, BUT I GET FROM THE CHAIR SPOT. >> THERE'S NOT A STAFF REPORT ON THIS, IS THERE? [00:50:02] >> GO BACK TO THE LAST ONE AND JUST CHANGE THE NUMBER. >> THAT'S TRUE. >> I'M GOING TO FUMBLE THROUGH THIS BUT I WILL TRY TIME. >> JUST A COUPLE OF CASES. >> LET ME JUST GET THE NUMBER RIGHT ON THIS ONE. WHAT'S THE PROJECT NUMBER? >> TWENTY-THREE. 2024-23. >> I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2024-0023 WITH OUT CONDITIONS. AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2024-0023, AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. >> SECOND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, MS. HOLZENDORF, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> MEMBER KOSACK? >> YES. >> MEMBER FILKOFF? >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES? >> YES. >> CHAIR SPINO? >> YES. >> AM I IN PAGE TWO NOW? HDC 2024-0015, [5.1 HDC 2024-0015 - CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, WATERFRONT LOTS C + D] CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, WATERFRONT LOTS, C AND D. THIS IS PAVILION AND RESTROOMS. DIRECTOR? >> GOOD EVENING. THIS IS THE THIRD MEETING AT WHICH THIS BOARD IS CONSIDERING THE REVIEW OF THE PAVILION AND RESTROOMS. TOGETHER, BOTH THE PAVILION AND THE RESTROOMS ARE BEING CONSIDERED TONIGHT. THIS IS FOR WATERFRONT LOTS, C AND D, AND THE CITY IS REQUESTING A FINAL APPROVAL FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A PAVILION AND RESTROOMS AT THAT LOCATION WITHIN THE CRA DESIGN AREA FOR THE WATERFRONT PARK. >> CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER? YES. >> YES, I'M HAPPY TO SPEAK LOUDER. THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED SITE PLAN DETAILS DEMONSTRATING THE LOCATION OF BOTH THE RESTROOM AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF THAT TO THE PAVILION, ALONG WITH SOME LANDSCAPING DETAILS, AS WELL AS RENDERINGS AND CONSTRUCTION PLANS TO SUPPORT THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, AND IN KEEPING WITH THE DIRECTION THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED THROUGH THE PRIOR TWO MEETINGS UP TO THIS POINT. THEY HAVE MADE SOME SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES IN MINIMIZING THE HAND RAILS AND THE HAND RAIL DESIGNS TO AVOID BLOCKING ANY VIEWS, REMOVING SOME OF THE PLANTERS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY OF CONCERN. ALSO CHANGING SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY NOTED AS A POINT OF CONCERN AND ADDED COST AS PART OF THE OVERALL PROJECT. THEY'VE ALSO MODIFIED TO HAVE CONSISTENT GABLE AND DETAILING IN KEEPING WITH THE DIRECTION PROVIDED FOR THE ARCHED IMPROVEMENTS OF THE ENDS OF THE PAVILION ITSELF WITH A STAINLESS STEEL BRUSHED ALUMINUM RAILING THAT IS PROVIDED AS NECESSARY TO SUPPORT THE MINOR OFF GRADE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING THERE. I KNOW THAT THE OTHER MEMBERS OF CITY STAFF CAN PROBABLY SPEAK IN GREATER DETAIL OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS. THOSE RENDERINGS ARE PROVIDED. IT CONTINUES TO BE A METAL ROOF ON TOP. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS EVER IN QUESTION. THE RESTROOM ITSELF IS NOW A CUSTOM-DESIGNED RESTROOM, WHERE THERE ARE BATHROOMS ON TWO SIDES, AS WELL AS ANOTHER ROOF LINE PROVIDED TO PROVIDE BREAKING UP OF THAT OVERALL DETAIL AND CONNECTION OF THEM SO THAT YOU DON'T STEP OUTSIDE INTO AN AREA THAT IS NOT COVERED. IT IS INTENDED TO BE A METAL ROOF ON TOP WITH A WATER TABLE FINISH BEING STUCCO AND THEN SIDING WITH WINDOWS. IN REVIEWING THIS AS PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AS WELL AS THOSE OF THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES, STAFF FEELS THAT THEY ARE SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT. IF APPROVED THIS EVENING, THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO BRING THIS FORWARD TO THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE FOR CONSIDERATION AND ANY OTHER TECHNICAL COMPLIANCE DETAILS THAT ARE NECESSARY. YOUR PORTION OF THIS REVIEW IS LIMITED TO THE DESIGN ITSELF IN ENSURING THAT IT MEETS THE STANDARDS. WITH THAT, I'LL OPEN IT. ANY QUESTIONS. >> WHAT ABOUT THAT LIGHTING? DO WE HAVE ANY LIGHTING DETAILS ON IT? >> I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY LIGHTING DETAILS. THAT MAYBE SOMETHING THAT IS DETERMINED LATER ON. >> IT'S PART OF THE LANDSCAPE PLAN? >> POTENTIALLY. I DON'T SEE WHERE THEY'RE PROVIDED AT THIS TIME. >> OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE, WELCOME. >> YEAH. FOR THE PAVILION BUILDING, [00:55:02] I THINK IT'S A GOOD DESIGN. IT WORKS WELL. I APPRECIATE THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE THE LAST MEETING IN REVERSING THE ADA RAMP. THAT I THINK IS JUST MAKES IT MORE APPROPRIATE ON THE LOT. I THINK THAT THERE'S, AND THIS IS PROBABLY MORE JUST A HEADS UP IN TERMS OF THE TECHNICAL REVIEW, I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME ADA ISSUES WITH HAND RAILS, GUARD RAILS. BECAUSE IT'S JUST RENDERINGS. THE FLOOR PLANS AREN'T DETAILED ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY SEE THAT THERE'S HAND RAILS THERE ON THE STAIRS. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS, AND I'M SURE THAT YOUR STAFF WILL PICK THAT UP IN THE ACTUAL TECHNICAL REVIEW, BUT THEY'RE NOT THERE NOW FROM WHAT I'M SEEING. FOR THE REST ROOM BUILDING, I THINK THE DESIGN IS THOUGHTFUL. IT'S GOOD. IT'S APPROPRIATE. I'M A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED WITH WHERE THE ELEVATION SAY SCORED STUCCO OR COQUINA SHELL TABBY WATER TABLE. I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT ACTUALLY IS. AND AGAIN, MORE OF THE TECHNICAL REVIEW, I MAY HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS PROBABLY SOMEWHAT IN FAVOR OF THE PREFAB BUILDING BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S INDESTRUCTIBLE. I'M CONCERNED WITH THE DURABILITY OF THIS. MOVING FORWARD IN THE FUTURE WITH THE CITY AND THE MAINTENANCE ON THESE BUILDINGS TAKE TREMENDOUS ABUSE. THE BATHROOM BUILDINGS ALWAYS DO. MY UNDERSTANDING FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS IS THAT IT IS POTENTIALLY A WOOD-FRAMED BUILDING, AND THAT CONCERNS ME. IF IT'S MASONRY, I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DETAILS ARE. QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION IS. WHO'S COMING UP? JEREMIAH, PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD. >> JEREMIAH GLISSON, INTERIM CITY MANAGER. YES, YOU'RE CORRECT. THAT IS THERE'S NO FACILITY THAT TAKES GREATER ABUSE THAN A PUBLIC REST ROOM. OF COURSE, THE LAST DESIGN THAT WE BROUGHT TO YOU WAS JUST THAT. IT WAS THAT PRISON GRADE, IF YOU WILL, UTILITARIAN. I WORKED. YOU COULD PUT IT UP IN A SNOW BANK UP IN WASHINGTON STATE, AND IT'S GOING TO SURVIVE EVERYTHING. BUT IT DOES COME AT A COST OF AESTHETICS. WHAT WE DID IS WE TOOK THAT FLOOR PLAN THAT WAS IN THOSE PREFAB BUILDINGS, HANDED IT TO ASA. HE CAN PROVIDE MORE DETAILED ABOUT IT. LET'S INCORPORATE AS MUCH OF THAT DESIGN, THAT MAINTENANCE FRIENDLY. THE ACCESS TO THE STRUCTURES WILL BE THROUGH A CHASE IN THE MIDDLE. ALL OF YOUR PLUMBING, YOUR ELEMENTS WILL BE THERE IN THE MIDDLE. THAT'S STRUCT BLOCK, CORRECT? CMU. WE'RE PUTTING IN AS MANY ELEMENTS AS WE CAN TO PROVIDE THAT RESILIENCY, TO PROVIDE THAT TOUGHNESS THAT A RESTROOM WOULD NEED. THAT WAS OUR INSTRUCTIONS TO HIM. LET'S INCORPORATE THOSE ELEMENTS, BUT GET AWAY FROM THAT PREFAB LOOK, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. IF YOU HAVE MORE TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, I CAN PUT TO MR. GILLETT HERE AND HE CAN PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL. BUT YEAH, THAT'S MY RESPONSE TO THAT. >> THANK YOU. >> DO YOU WANT MR. GILLETT? >> NO, I'M GOOD. IT'S. IT'S ALSO WOOD FRAMED AND IT'S BLOCKED. >> THE FINISHED EXTERIOR OKAY? >> YEAH. >> IS THE FINISH GOING TO BE THE STUCCO OR COQUINA. >> OH, THAT'S AN AESTHETIC, YEAH. WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? I WANT TO GET THIS THING APPROVED AND GET DONE, SO WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE QUESTION? >> ARE THERE TECHNICAL PROS AND CONS BETWEEN COQUINA AND STUCCO? BECAUSE WE HAVE USED DOWNTOWN IN THE BASE OF THE NEW LIGHTS DOWNTOWN. WE HAVE USED COQUINA. >> THAT WORK FOR YOU? >> COQUINA WORKS. >> WOULD IT BE REAL STUCCO OR IS IT EIFS? >> REAL STUCCO. >> WE'RE TALKING COQUINA NOW. >> BUT IF IT WAS STUCCO, WOULD IT BE REAL STUCCO? >> DO WE HAVE A SOURCE FOR THE COQUINA BECAUSE WE WEREN'T ABLE TO DO THAT ON THE WALL. >> ON THE SEAWALL? >> YEAH. >> WE HAVE THAT SPEC, YEAH WE DID. BECAUSE THAT CHANGED FROM A COQUINA TO A SMOOTH FINISH ON THAT WALL. >> FOR THE SEAWALL? THE WALL PATH? NO, THAT'S THAT'S A COQUINA MIX. >> OR MAYBE THE PATHWAY. THAT WAS ORIGINALLY GOING TO BE ALL COQUINA? >> WE STILL HOPE THAT IT IS [LAUGHTER]. WE HAD A PRE-BID MEETING. ANOTHER THING WE'LL TALK ABOUT LATER [OVERLAPPING]. >> NO, IT WON'T BE EXISTING. >> IN OUR NEXT DISCUSSION. >> AS LONG AS WE HAVE SOURCE FOR IT. >> YES, WE DO. >> BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR HERE, ARE THE OTHER QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS? >> NO. >> WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE SENSITIVITY THAT YOU AND LISA FINKELSTEIN TOOK INTO THIS CONVERSATION FROM OUR LAST DISCUSSION. IT IS AN AMAZING TURNAROUND IN BOTH OF THESE STRUCTURES. [01:00:02] WE FEEL MUCH MORE CONFIDENT THAT WHAT YOU'RE BRINGING FORWARD WILL LOOK GREAT AND BE WILL RECEIVED DOWNTOWN. THANK YOU FOR THAT FOR PAYING ATTENTION. IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT MR. POZZETTA AND MR. POYNTER, AND MR. SLUZAR AREN'T HERE BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONES BRINGING FORWARD A LOT OF THESE IDEAS. BUT I THINK THEY WILL BE PLEASED. MS. GIBSON, DO WE HAVE ANY NOTES FROM OUR ABSENT MEMBERS ON THIS PROJECT? >> NO. >> WE DO NOT. THAT'S RIGHT. >> ONE FURTHER DETAIL. WE MADE THE ELEVATION SUCH THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET RID OF A LOT OF THE GUARD RAIL AND THE HAND RAILS. >> YES. IT'S NOT SO TALL. OBSTRUCTION JUST CHANGE THE MAKE OF IT BECAUSE LIKE SKATE PARK. YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SEE, BUT THE HAND RAILS ARE THERE FOR THE STAIRS. THEN OF COURSE, FOR THE ADA RAMP. THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT WILL BE IN THIS STRUCTURE. >> JEREMIAH, WHAT'S THAT TALL STEM WALL TO THE LEFT OF THE STAIRS? ON THE RIGHT IMAGE, THE MIDDLE RIGHT IMAGE. LOOKS LIKE A PODIUM ALMOST. THERE'S A TALL STEM WALL. THAT'S LIKE A SERVICE. BUT IT'S CLAD TO LOOK DECORATIVE. >> THIS HAS COME A LONG WAY IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. >> YEAH, IT REALLY HAS.. >> THANK YOU, MISS LISA. THANK YOU, JEREMIAH. WE WILL OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING. IF THERE'S ANYONE WHO WISHES TO DISCUSS 2024-0015 THIS WOULD BE THE TIME. IN ANTICIPATION OF QUESTIONS ABOUT TREES, I WANT TO SAY THERE WAS 48 CRAPE MYRTLES, AND CRAP LOAD IS NOT AN ACTUAL NUMBER. BUT IT WAS A LARGE NUMBER OF OTHER SHADE TREES WERE IN THE LANDSCAPE. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE APPROVING TONIGHT. BUT BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD COMMUNITY CONCERNS ABOUT THAT PREVIOUSLY, IT WILL BE WELL-TREATED. IS THAT FAIR? >> THAT'S A CORRECT STATEMENT. >> COMMISSIONER? >> ERIC, YOU WANT IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD. SORRY, BUT I DIDN'T SEE YOUR NAME. >> ERIC PATEL, 3820 SOUTH, [INAUDIBLE]. A MEMBER OF THE CRA ADVISORY BOARD THAT BROUGHT ALL THIS FORWARD. I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT BOTH THE PAVILION AND THE RESTROOMS. LET'S DO THE PAVILION FIRST. AT THE LAST MEETING, THERE WERE A WHOLE LOT OF DETAILS DISCUSSED, AND THERE WASN'T CONSENSUS ON A WHOLE LOT OF THOSE DETAILS, TOO. SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED WAS THE ELIMINATING OF RAILINGS BECAUSE I THINK THE FEELING WAS THAT THEY WOULD OBSTRUCT VIEWS. HAND RAILS, ALL THOSE HAND RAILS THAT WERE ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, GRADING UP TO THE DECK SO THAT YOU COULD ELIMINATE RAILINGS. GABLE ENDS AND DORMER TRUSS DESIGN. DECKING MATERIAL, PLANTERS, ELIMINATING STEPS ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, WHERE THE STAGE IS. CHANGING THE TREAD RISER RATIO ON THE STEPS THAT WERE GOING TO BE RETAINED. THE ADA RAMP, SWITCHING THE DIRECTION OF THE ADA RAMP, ADDING CABLING SO THAT IT WOULD KIND OF REFLECT WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE SUN SHELTERS. I GUESS I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE THINGS. >> GO AHEAD, SIR. >> REGARDING THE RAILINGS, THE DECK OF THE PAVILION IS LESS THAN 30 INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND, SO RAILINGS ARE NOT REQUIRED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. THAT WOULD MEAN SO THAT IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THOSE RAILINGS, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE THE GRADING UP TO THE DECK. WHEN YOU ADD THE GRADING, THAT CHANGES THE LANDSCAPE PLAN. YOU CAN SEE IT HERE. THE GRADING GOES UP TO THE SOUTH SIDE TO THE STAGE SIDE OF THE PAVILION, WHICH MEANS THERE'S NO STAGE NEXT TO IT. YOU HAVE A STAGE AND THE STAGE IS HIGHER THAN WHERE THE AUDIENCE IS. IF YOU'VE GRADED IT UP, THERE'S NO STAGE THEN. IT'S JUST A CONTINUATION OF THE LANDSCAPING. I GUESS I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR KEEPING THAT STAGE AND KEEPING THOSE STEPS. [01:05:08] I GUESS TAKING A STEP BACK TO SORT OF MORE TO THE ORIGINAL INTENT HERE. THEN THE DECK HEIGHT COULD EITHER BE 18 INCHES HIGH OR 24 INCH. I'M SORRY, THE RAILINGS, IF YOU DID HAVE RAILINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED, YOU COULD HAVE RAILINGS, BUT THEY WOULD ONLY HAVE TO BE 18 INCHES OR WHATEVER HEIGHT YOU WANT THEM TO BE. THEY COULD BE VERY LOW SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OBSTRUCTION, BUT THEY DO GIVE THAT SENSE OF ENCLOSURE TO THE PAVILION, WHICH MEMBER THE ARCHITECT. >> WHO'S THAT? >> NO. >> EXCLUSIVE. >> YEAH. EXCLUSIVE. HE FAVORED KEEPING THE RAILINGS. ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE INSTEAD OF HAVING RAILINGS, AND WE'RE TALKING ALONG THE EAST ELEVATION. INSTEAD OF HAVING EVEN LOW RAILINGS, YOU COULD HAVE A BENCH THERE SO THAT PEOPLE COULD SIT THERE. THOSE OTHER OPTIONS BESIDES THE GRADING. AT THE LAST MEETING, I DIDN'T GET THE SENSE THAT THERE WAS A CONSENSUS ABOUT GRADING UP TO THE DECK. THAT GOT INCORPORATED, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYBODY WAS ON BOARD WITH THAT. HAND RAILS. THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT ALL THOSE HAND RAILS ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE, AND THAT THAT'S A CODE REQUIREMENT. IN A GOOGLE SEARCH, I FOUND EXAMPLES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHERE IT'S A PERFORMANCE PAVILION, WHERE THEY HAVE STEPS DOWN, AND THERE ARE NO HAND RAILS IN FRONT OF THOSE. THERE MUST BE A PROVISION IN THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE THAT ALLOWS FOR THAT NOT TO BE. TO ME, THE STEPS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT ON THAT SOUTH SIDE. THE STEPS ARE A TRANSITION. THEY'RE A WELCOMING FEATURE. THEN MOVING TO THE GABLE ENDS. BECAUSE THE DESIGN OF THE GABLE ENDS WERE DIFFERENT ON THE EAST AND WEST FROM THE SOUTH AND NORTH. THEY'VE GONE WITH A MUCH MORE ELABORATE COLLINEAR FOR ALL FOUR SIDES. I GUESS I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD GO WITH THAT. ISN'T THIS SIMPLER, LESS EXPENSIVE, BASIC APPROACH, A BETTER APPROACH, WHICH CAN THEN ALSO CARRY OVER INTO THE RESTROOM DESIGN, WHICH I'LL GET TO? SWITCHING THE ADA RAMP DIRECTION, CAN YOU ELABORATE ON WHY THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO DO? >> WE WANTED TO OPEN UP THE SOUTH SIDE. >> WHY? >> OPEN UP THE SOUTH SIDE. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF SOMEBODY'S COMING INTO DO A PERFORMANCE THAT THEY WOULD PROBABLY BRING A SMALL STAGE TO RAISE UP AND GET THEM ABOVE THE GRADE THAT'S PRETTY TYPICAL OF EVENTS THEY'RE PUT ON, I GUESS, AT LEAST THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING. THAT'S WHY WE WANTED IT LOWER SO THAT THE VIEWS CAPE WAS PRESERVED, BUT IT NEEDED TO BE AVAILABLE TO BE USED FOR SMALL EVENTS. >> LET ME ADDRESS THE VIEW OBSTRUCTION QUESTION. THE PAVILION WAS CITED IN THAT LOCATION BECAUSE THERE'S A TREE GROVE BETWEEN IT AND THE WATER. THERE'S A CEDAR TREE AND THREE OR FOUR PALM TREES. THAT'S WHY IT WAS CITED THERE, SO IT WOULDN'T OBSTRUCT VIEWS. THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN. THE ADA RAMP, THE WAY IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED, THE ENTRANCE TO THAT RAMP IS ON THE WEST END OF THE RAMP. THERE'S A PAVER PLAZA THERE, WHICH IS A WALKWAY THROUGH TO THE SEATING AREA ALONG THE WALL. THERE'S EASY ACCESS TO IT, WHICH IS ALREADY PART OF THE PLAN. [01:10:03] IF YOU SWITCH IT, THEN THERE'S NO CONNECTION TO A SIDEWALK. YOU'LL HAVE TO ADD A SIDEWALK TO CONNECT TO IT. THE STEPS. THE SUGGESTION WAS MADE FOR THE STEPS THAT WERE GOING TO REMAIN TO BE FOUR INCH RISERS WITH 18 INCH TREADS. I GUESS I WOULD CONTEND THAT THAT'S AN UNSAFE STEP BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT PEOPLE ARE USED TO. THE SWEET SPOT FOR TREAD AND RISER DESIGN IS 6- 7 INCHES, AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE HAVE IN THEIR HOUSES, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE USED TO. SO WHEN YOU COME TO STEPS THAT HAVE A MUCH WIDER TREAD AND A MUCH LOWER RISER, THAT BECOMES A TRIPPING HAZARD, AND YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE STEPS THAT YOU TAKE. NOW WITH THE SWEET SPOT RATIO, YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. IT'S AUTOMATIC. WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING IS CREATING SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WHEN THEY TAKE THOSE STEPS, THEY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT. IT COULD CHANGE TO SIX INCH RISERS AND STILL HAVE A 12 INCH TREAD, AND THAT'D BE FINE. THE PLANTERS. THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU WANT ME TO STOP? >> NO. >> THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PLANTERS. THERE ARE TWO PLANTERS IN THE ARCHITECTURAL PLAN. THE PLANTERS GOT A WHOLE LOT BIGGER. IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, THOSE PLANTERS WERE FLUSH WITH THE TOP OF THE DECK. THEY PERFORM AN IMPORTANT FUNCTION BECAUSE YOU CAN PUT A COUPLE OF TREES IN IT, AND THAT FRAMES THE STAGE, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. IF THEY'RE FLUSHED WITH THE TOP OF THE DECK, THEY'RE UNOBTRUSIVE. THEY WON'T STAND OUT AT ALL. WE TALKED ABOUT THE DECKING MATERIAL ABOUT WHETHER IT COULD BE EPA OR WHATEVER OR CONCRETE OR WHATEVER. I THINK IT ENDED UP BEING A BIG CONCRETE SLAB, WHICH IS GOING TO CRACK AND HAS POTENTIALLY MAINTENANCE ISSUES. KEEPING THE DECKING AS WOOD, EITHER EPA OR ANOTHER HARD WOOD EVOKES THE OLD DOCS FOR THE CITY. LASTLY, THE FLOOR PLAN, WHICH IS SHOWN IN ONE OF THE SLIDES HERE, SHOWS THE BUILDING BEING SQUARE NOW AND IT WAS NEVER SQUARE. I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY WE KEEP CHANGING THAT. ORIGINALLY, THE BUILDING IS A LITTLE BIT WIDER SO THAT THESE NORTH AND SOUTH ELEVATIONS ARE MORE PROMINENT, AND THAT'S WHERE THE STAGE IS, SO THAT THE EAST AND WEST SIDES ARE DORMERS, NOT GABLE ENDS, AND THOSE DORMERS ARE OF A LOWER IMPORTANCE. IT GIVES THE STAGE MORE OF A PROMINENCE. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I GOT. LET ME JUST GIVE YOU THIS. >> THANK YOU, ERIC. WE APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT. MY INSTINCTS TELL ME THAT WHAT WE'VE GOT IS BASICALLY WHAT WE ASKED FOR. I THINK WE'RE FAIRLY COMFORTABLE WITH WHERE IT IS NOW. THIS IS THE FLOOR PLAN. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE FLOOR PLAN. WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN OUR PRIOR MEETING AND I BELIEVE MISS FERGUSON AND JEREMIAH, MR. GLISSON, HAVE LISTENED TO US AND CARRIED THAT BACK TO THE ARCHITECT, WHICH IS WAY TOO MANY STEPS AND WAY TOO MANY RAILS, AS I RECALL, IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, AND WE WERE TRYING TO SIMPLIFY. >> IS THAT FAIR TO REMEMBER? IF YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS. ERIC, COULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE RESTROOMS? >> YES. >> PLEASE, SIR. IS THERE A WATER BOTTLE FILLER THERE? [01:15:02] >> SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, WE SWITCHED FROM A PREFAB BUILDING TO MORE A SAFE BUILDING. THERE WAS A PLAN FOR CONVERTING THAT PREFAB BUILDING TO SOMETHING THAT'S NOT AN EYESORE, AND CLOSE THE BUILDING WITH PARTY BOARD FURRING STRIPS. IT WAS TO ADD A METAL ROOF ON TOP OF THE EXISTING ROOF, BASICALLY DISGUISING THE FACT THAT IT WAS A PREFAB BUILDING. IT WAS MR. GLISSON WHO REQUESTED THE PREFAB. WE TRIED TO COME UP WITH A PLAN WHERE YOU COULD DO THAT, AND YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW THAT IT WAS THE PREFAB BUILDING. >> IN MR. GILLETT'S PLAN, ARE THESE DORMERS FUNCTIONAL? >> THE DORMERS ARE ARE NOT FUNCTIONAL, THEY'RE DECORATIVE ELEMENT. SORRY TO DO THIS TO YOU, BUT I GOT IT. >> WE APPRECIATE YOU THINKING IT THROUGH SERIOUSLY. WE MAY NOT ALWAYS AGREE, BUT WE DO APPRECIATE THAT. THIS IS THE PREFAB. >> PRETTY DOPE. >> PREFAB PLAN. I LIKE IT. >> THE DORMER IS A FUNCTIONAL DORMER, AND IT'S AN OPEN-ENDED DORMER, SO IT MATCHES THE PAVILION AND PROVIDES LIGHT INTO THAT SPACE BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS. IF IT'S JUST ROOF, IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY DARK UNDER THERE. ALSO, THE EAVES, THE BOTTOM OF THE ROOF, THE EAVES ON THE PREFAB BUILDING ARE ABOUT 6.5 FEET HIGH, WHICH DOESN'T GIVE YOU ENOUGH HEAD ROOM. THAT MEANS THAT THIS BUILDING HAS TO BE TALLER IN ORDER TO PROVIDE ENOUGH HEADROOM CLEARANCE TO BE ABLE TO WALK INTO THAT SPACE BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDING. THAT MAKES THAT BUILDING MORE PROMINENT, AND IT'S A RESTROOM BUILDING. IT SHOULD BE A BACKGROUND BUILDING. >> IT'S OUT AT THE EDGE OF THE PARKING LOT AS I RECALL? >> IT'S OUT AT THE EDGE OF THE PARKING LOT BECAUSE IT MEANS TO BE ADJACENT TO THE PARKING LOT IF YOU GET TO IT WITHOUT HAVING TO WALK INTO WATERFRONT PARK OR INTO THE WATERFRONT AREA IN ORDER TO GET TO THE PIKE. >> THE DEPTH OF THE BUILDING INCREASED BY TWO FEET. THE SPACE BETWEEN THE PARKING LOT AND THE STREET AND SIDEWALK TO THE MAIN WALKWAY THAT GOES THROUGH THE PARK, JUST GOT SHORTER. THAT MOVES THE RESTROOM BUILDING CLOSER TO THE MAIN WALKWAY, AND THAT CHANGES POTENTIALLY THE TREE LOCATION PATTERN IN THE LANDSCAPING PLAN. I GUESS THE OTHER CONCERN I HAVE IS THAT THE DESIGN OF HAVING THE SIDING WITH STUCCO AND HARDIE BOARD AND HOW THIS IS SHOWN BEARS NO ARCHITECTURAL RELATIONSHIP TO THE PAVILION. >> RIGHT. >> RIGHT. WE GET THAT. >> ERIC, THANK YOU SO MUCH. QUESTIONS FOR MR. BARTEL? >> NO. >> WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS. THANK YOU. IS ANYBODY ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARD TO THE CASE? MAKE SURE I GET THIS RIGHT. 2024-0015. NOW, WE'LL MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION. BOARD MEMBERS? >> WHERE DO YOU WANT TO START? WHICH ONE? >> LET'S START WITH THE PAVILION. I THINK THEY LISTENED TO US. DIRECTOR, I APOLOGIZE. I BELIEVE I ASKED YOU THIS QUESTION, AND I FORGOT TO ANSWER. DID OUR ABSENT BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THIS PROJECT? >> NO, SIR. >> I'M LITTLE SURPRISED, MR. POYNTER, MR. POZZETTA DIDN'T WEIGH IN GIVEN THEY WERE VERY ENGAGED IN OUR LAST MEETING, BUT PERHAPS THEY ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT THEY SAW. MS. [INAUDIBLE]. >> JUST TINY THING. FIRST, WE'RE LOOKING AT PICTURES, IMAGES WITH TUBULAR STEEL HAND RAILS, BUT THEN THE CALL OUTS ARE STILL FOR CABLE RAILING WITH WOOD POSTS. [01:20:01] SO LET'S JUST MAKE SURE THOSE ARE CLARIFIED ON THE DETAIL THAT HAS THE CALLOUTS, AND STILL HAS THE CABLE RAILING ON IT. I HEAR WHAT ERIC IS SAYING WITH SOME OF HIS POINTS. AND ONE OF THE ONES THAT STOOD OUT TO ME WAS, IF WE ARE MOVING TO THIS CONCRETE SLAB, A FLOATING SLAB WITH STEM WALLS, I DON'T SEE ANY CALLOUTS ON THERE. WE DISCUSSED MAYBE HOW SOME, WHO AM I SPEAKING WITH? ARE YOU OUR APPLICANT? [LAUGHTER] WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING [INAUDIBLE] OR SOMETHING ON IT, SO WE DON'T JUST HAVE THIS BIG, MASSIVE, DIRTY CONCRETE SLABS [OVERLAPPING] >> STILL INTENDED TO BE TEXTURED WITH THE [INAUDIBLE] WOOD INTO IT. >> I THINK THAT'S THE STEM WALLS. WE'RE GOING TO BE [OVERLAPPING] >> IT JUST TEXTURED CONCRETE SLANTERS AND STEM WALLS. BUT NOT THE INTERIOR. THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL WAS NOT PROVIDED. >> COOL. >> SORRY. >> THAT'S OKAY. >> WHAT'S THE QUESTION? >> WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT THE SLAB? JEREMIAH, AS FAR AS ANY SCORING OR SOMETHING ON IT TO BREAK UP A BIG, SOLID, DIRTY PIECE OF CONCRETE? JUICE, WINE, KIDS. >> GUM IS EVERYWHERE. >> THAT'S GOOD FEEDBACK, AND THAT COULD BE A CONDITION [OVERLAPPING] >> CONTROL JOINTS. >> CONTROL JOINTS [OVERLAPPING] >> PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF, >> LISA FINKELSTEIN, CHAIR OF THE CRA ADVISORY BOARD AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR MAIN STREET. WHEN WE DID HAVE THE FOLLOW UP CONVERSATION WITH THE ARCHITECT, THAT IS WHAT WE REQUESTED AS THE SCORE CONCRETE. >> JUST FROM EXPERIENCE, YOU GOT TO GIVE THE CONCRETE GUYS EXACTLY WHAT PATTERN YOU WANT, BECAUSE IF THEY'RE GOING TO THROW CONTROL JOINTS IN, IT'S EVERY 13 FEET, AND WHEREVER THEY WANT TO CUT THEM IN, THEY'RE GOING TO CUT THEM IN. WE WANT PATTERN, WE WANT SOMETHING IN THE CENTER AND THEN SOMETHING COMING OFF OF IT. REALLY, LET'S MAKE [OVERLAPPING] >> DEFINES. >> DEFINED. >> THEN ERIC, JUST TO SPEAK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE RECTILINEAR PREVIOUS SHADE VERSUS THE SQUARE, WHEREVER ERIC WENT. I DON'T KNOW THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON WOULD NOTICE THAT TWO FOOT DIFFERENCE. IT'S SUCH A LARGE MASS OUT THERE AND YOU'RE NEVER LOOKING AT IT LIKE THAT. I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT MAKING ONE PROMINENT AND THE OTHER SIDE LESSER, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE A HUGE MAKE OR BREAK IN THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING. THAT'S ALL I HAVE AT THE MOMENT. >> BROOK. >> I THINK THE DESIGN IS THOUGHTFUL AT [INAUDIBLE] AND THEY ADDRESSED OUR COMMENTS. I LIKE THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. I AGREE WITH TAMMY'S COMMENTS IN TERMS OF THE CONCRETE. I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AS A NOT JUST A STAGE, WHICH THE BUILDING CODE WILL TALK TO SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR STAGES, BUT THAT IT'S A PUBLIC SPACE THAT'S TOTALLY ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AND NEEDS TO BE THOUGHT OF IN THAT WAY AS WELL, AND NOT JUST A STAGE WHERE IT'S OKAY NOT TO HAVE A GUARD RAIL. I THINK IT'S BEEN HANDLED WELL, SO I THINK THAT THAT WORKS. >> WELL IF WE LOOK AT WHAT WE HAD LAST MEETING, THAT WAS A BIG ELEMENT OUT THERE. YOU HAVE THIS LARGE AND TALL AND VERY COMMANDING OF THIS VERY ULTRA FLAT SPACE. >> YES. >> SO I THINK THIS REALLY HELPS AND I LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF GRADING. I WASN'T REALLY ON BOARD TOO MUCH WITH THE GRADING, BUT I LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT BECAUSE IT MAKES IT MORE ACCESSIBLE. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD ADD TO THAT WE DON'T HAVE IS THE LIGHTING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S FULL CUT OFF LIGHTING AND DARK SKY IS COMPLIANT, SO WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF LIGHT SPILL OR LIGHT TRESPASS INTO THAT AREA. THIS IS A LARGELY PHOTOGRAPHED AREA, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, SO WE DON'T WANT WHEN THERE'S NO EVENTS THERE PEOPLE TO TRY TO GO OUT AND TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS AND WE GO THESE MASSIVE LIGHTS EVERYWHERE. >> YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE SHORT BOOT PICTURES. >> YEAH. >> SERIOUSLY. FURTHER COMMENTS, SHOULD WE MOVE ON TO THE RESTROOM DISCUSSION? >> I HAVE A GENERAL COMMENT TO MAKE ABOUT ALL THIS. >> WHERE ARE YOU GOING? >> LET'S DO THE RESTROOM NEXT. >> IF WE COULD HAVE PUT THE BUNKER BEFORE UP AND THEN THIS AFTER, I THINK WE'D ALL BE LIKE GO. [LAUGHTER] WHAT I WILL ASK, MAYBE ASA ON THIS ONE, [01:25:01] ERIC DID MAKE A GOOD POINT ABOUT HAVING THAT AS A FUNCTIONAL GABLE WITH LIGHT THAT GOES THROUGH. COULD WE COMBINE THE TWO SOMEHOW? >> I KNOW YOU ASKED FOR ASA [OVERLAPPING] SORRY. >> I HAVE BEEN WORKING AS A CONSULTANT FOR HIM ON THE RESTROOMS. >> I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS TRUST FRAMED OR WHAT, BUT CAN YOU [OVERLAPPING] >> IT IS TRUST FRAMED. THE REASON WE WENT WITH AN ENCLOSED BREEZEWAY WAS SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT RAIN OR BIRD POOP IN THAT ALLEY. IT'S GOT TO BE A SHELTER LOCATION FOR ACCESS TO THOSE RESTROOMS. ONCE WE MATCHED THE ROOF SLOPE OF THE PAVILION, WHICH WAS EIGHT AND 12, BEFORE IT WAS MUCH LOWER, AND IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THEY WERE THE SAME FAMILY. ONCE WE IMPROVE THE ROOF SLOPE IT NEEDED TO BE BROKEN UP WITH A DORMER ELEMENT OR ANOTHER ROOF TO BREAK UP THE SCALE. >> CAN THAT DORMER PUNCTURE AND GO THROUGH AND BE, OR YOU DON'T WANT BIRDS TO COME IN? >> AGAIN, ONCE YOU START VAULTING THOSE SPACES, THEN THEY JUST ATTRACT. OVERHEAD MAINTENANCE IS A BIG ONE, TOO. WE TRY TO SIMPLIFY IT TO MAKE IT MORE BUILDABLE AND AFFORDABLE AND BRING THE SCALE DOWN. AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE HEAVILY LANDSCAPED, NOT THAT THAT'S AN EXCUSE, BUT WE TRY TO DRESS IT UP WITH THE SAME MATERIALS THAT ARE PRESENT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. >> I THINK IF IT'S WELL LIT, IT'S GOING TO WORK WELL. >> CAN YOU SPEAK UP? >> I THINK AS LONG AS THAT BREEZEWAY IS WELL LIT, I THINK IT'LL WORK WELL. >> I'M SAYING YES. OTHER QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS? >> I JUST HAVE ONE COMMENT. >> PLEASE. >> ERIC, YOU AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PART SINCE GOD WAS A BOY. [LAUGHTER] I'M JUST ANXIOUS TO SEE IT, AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THIS FAR IF HE HADN'T STARTED TO WORK ON IT. FOR THAT, I APPRECIATE YOU AND YOU KNOW OUR LOVE HATE RELATIONSHIP, THAT'S BIG FOR ME TO SAY THAT, RIGHT, ERIC? SAY YES. I THINK THAT IF WE QUIBBLE ANY FURTHER, WE JUST DELAY THIS PROJECT, AND WE DON'T GET WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT IT. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M MOST CONCERNED WITH RIGHT NOW. I WANT TO SEE WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT IT AND GET DONE. >> WHAT'S THE PHRASE PERFECT IS THE ENEMY? >> DON'T LET THE PERFECT OF THE ENEMY LOOK GOOD. SERIOUSLY, THAT'S HOW [OVERLAPPING] >> AS A BOARD, WHAT DO WE FEEL ABOUT STUCCO VERSUS TABBY AND THAT ELEMENT ON THERE? DO WE HAVE ANY [OVERLAPPING] >> I THINK I HEARD CONTROL JOINTS [OVERLAPPING] >> ON THE WATER TABLE. >> ON THE WATER TABLE. >> ARE THERE OTHER EXAMPLES OF TABBY IN THE AREA? BUT I JUST CAN'T THINK OF IT. [OVERLAPPING] NO, BUT LIKE IN THE WATERFRONT AREA. >> IF YOU LOOK AT OUR DESIGN DEADLINES. >> YEAH. >> YOU COULD DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE CHOICE. >> WHAT WOULD TIE IN BETTER THAN? WE DON'T HAVE STUCCO DOWN THERE EITHER. >> I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT A CONDITION, BUT OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE [OVERLAPPING] >> I THINK THAT TABBY WOULD AT LEAST HAVE A CLOSER TIE IN TO THE CONCRETE ELEMENTS. YOU'RE SEEING CONCRETE AND CEMENT AND SEDIMENTATION MATERIAL OYSTER OR WHATEVER, I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DIALOGUE THAN JUST A STUCCO. >> IF THERE'S A BUDGET ISSUE AND IT WAS ALL SIGNING, THIS THING'S GOING TO BE LANDSCAPED ANYWAY. >> YEAH. >> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT IN THE END, PROBABLY. >> THEY DID CROSS MY MIND OR ARE WE STILL FROM A BUDGET PERSPECTIVE? WE DIDN'T GO OFF THE CHARTS HERE, DID WE? >> PROBABLY CLOSE, THOSE BUNKERS ARE EXPENSIVE. [LAUGHTER] >> WELL, REMEMBER ONE OF THE CONCERNS WITH THE PAVILION IS THAT PRIOR DESIGN IS COSTLY. A LOT OF THOSE HAND RAILINGS AND GUARD RAILS WILL ADD A COST TO THAT. WE DON'T KNOW YET. WE'RE GOING OUT FOR BID RIGHT NOW ON THE CIVIL SIDE IS OUT FOR BID, AND WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT LATER THIS EVENING. I THINK WE'RE WHERE WE NEED TO BE. >> THANK YOU. BECAUSE THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE WE NEVER WANT TO PUSH PROJECTS FORWARD IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE THAT AREN'T CONSISTENT WITH THE BUDGET PARAMETERS THAT WE'RE OPERATING. YOU'LL STOP US IF WE GO TWO. THANK YOU, SIR. IN THAT CASE, I THINK WE'VE ASKED FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY AND WE HAD MORE DISCUSSION. WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? >> I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE THIS MOTION. [LAUGHTER] >> YES. >> IF YOU ALL WOULD JUST SO THAT STAFF, YOU SAID IT'S JUST A SUGGESTION. IF YOU SAY IT'S JUST A SUGGESTION IN TERMS OF THE MATERIAL THAT'S GOING TO BE USED AT THAT WATER TABLE, THEN THEY'RE GOING TO DO WHATEVER IS BEST. >> WE CAN MAKE IT [OVERLAPPING]. THANK YOU COUNCIL. [01:30:04] >> I WILL INCLUDE IT IN [INAUDIBLE]. >> YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HELP ME WITH THE WORDING ON THE CONDITIONS? I MOVE TO APPROVE HD CASE NUMBER 2024-0015 WITH CONDITIONS THAT. >> THE WATER TABLE. >> THE WATER TABLE IS TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITH COQUINA SHELL TABBY. >> IS TO BE CONSTRUCTED WITH COQUINA SHELL TABBY. ANYTHING ELSE? >> NO. THAT'S IT. >> THAT'S IT. I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD. THAT HDC CASE 2024-0015 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. >> SECOND. >> [INAUDIBLE] APPROVE? >> YES. >> YES. FINAL APPROVE. MOVED [INAUDIBLE]. SECOND KOSACK, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. MS. HOLZENDORF, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> MEMBER KOSACK. >> YES. >> MEMBER [INAUDIBLE]. >> YES. >> MEMBER BYRNES. >> YES. >> CHAIR [INAUDIBLE]. >> YES. BOARD MEMBERS, TO CHECK YOUR PLEASURE, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO MOVE ON? >> LET'S GO ON. >> THEN WE WILL GO ON TO ROB. [6. BOARD BUSINESS] THE DOWNTOWN PROJECT UPDATES PRESENTATION BY MR. GLISSON. AS YOU'RE COMING FORWARD, I ASKED THE DIRECTOR QUESTION. DIRECTOR ON THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, IS THAT AN ACTION ITEM FOR US TONIGHT? ARE WE GOING TO BE APPROVING THOSE? >> NO, SIR. >> JUST FOR REVIEW PURPOSE? >> YES. >> I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS WE WERE GETTING INTO. AS WE LOOK AT OUR VISITS FURTHER AHEAD, MR. GLISSON DOWNTOWN PROJECTS. >> WHEN YOU'RE READY, I'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE AS YOU CAN SEE IT ON YOUR SCREEN. >> THAT'S NOW? >> THANK YOU. >> TAKE THE DATES [INAUDIBLE]. >> YOU'RE RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO MOVE PAST THAT. [LAUGHTER] THE INTENT IS AT LEAST ONCE A QUARTER, OR IS OFTEN AS NEEDED TO BRING TO THE BOARD ONGOING PROJECTS AND UPDATES WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN OR THE CLOSELY RELEVANT AREAS. DOWNTOWN WATERFRONT PARK, WHICH YOU ALL JUST APPROVED. >> THE FINAL APPROVAL FOR FOR THE RESTROOMS AND FOR THE PAVILIONS. WHERE WE'RE AT. WE'RE OUT FOR BID RIGHT NOW ON THE CIVIL SIDE. WE ACTUALLY HAD A PRE BID MANDATORY PRE BID MEETING TODAY. WE'RE HAPPY TO SEE FOUR CONTRACTORS SHOW UP. WE WALK THROUGH OF EVERYTHING AND DISCUSS THE PROJECT. A BID OPENING IS SCHEDULED FOR MIDDLE OF OCTOBER. THEN NOW THAT WE HAVE THAT APPROVAL, WE'RE GOING TO QUICKLY GO OUT FOR BID ON THE VERTICAL ELEMENTS, THE TWO BUILDINGS, AND THEN HAVE THAT READY SO THAT AFTER THE AMELIA OPEN, AND NOVEMBER, WE'LL BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD CONSTRUCTION, HAVE ALL THIS DONE BEFORE SHRIMP FESTIVAL. THAT'S THE GOAL. WE GOT FIVE TO SIX MONTHS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. NEXT ONE, TALK ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION. OF COURSE, THIS PROJECT IS REPLACING THE SIDEWALKS, LANDSCAPING, LIGHTING, AND ADA IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN. WHAT'S PICTURED IS A LOT OF THOSE ELEMENTS THAT ARE IN DISREPAIR AND NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. WE MET LAST WEEK WITH KIMY HORN, WHO IS PROVIDING THAT THAT DESIGN, WE ARE 60% COMPLETE. THE REASON THE 917 DATE WAS ON THE FRONT OF THE PRESENTATION AS A TYPO ON MY PART BECAUSE AT THE 917 MEETING, THE COMMISSION VOTED ON A CHANGE ORDER TO BRING IN ALL THE LIGHTING AND TO PROVIDE ARBOR'S CONSULTATION FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A LOT OF THOSE ELEMENTS ARE BREAKING UP BECAUSE THE TREES SAY, WE NEED MORE ROOM, AND THEY BREAK WHAT'S IN THEIR WAY TO GET THAT ROOM. AS TO MODIFY SOME OF THOSE ISLANDS THAT HAVE THOSE LIVE OAKS TO ACCOUNT FOR SOME EXTRA BREATHING ROOM FOR THOSE TREES. THAT ARBOR'S CONSULTATION IS A PART OF THAT CHANGE ORDER AS WELL. BUT SINCE WE LAST TALKED, WE'RE, LIKE I SAID, 60% COMPLETE, WE HAVE THE PROBABLE COST OF 2.2 MILLION FOR ALL OF CENTER STREET. DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS, WE'VE ALSO REACHED OUT. WE PRIORITIZE MR. JACOBS TO GO TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO REQUEST ADDITIONAL FUNDING, AND ALSO, WE PUT IN A GRANT APPLICATION WITH THE COUNTY FOR $1,000,000 TO PROVIDE THE FUNDING AS THROUGH THE TDC EXCUSE ME TO THE COUNTY. ONE ISSUE THAT WE'RE RUNNING INTO, WE'RE MEETING WITH FPU NEXT WEEK TO DISCUSS THE LIGHTING ELEMENT. WE'RE LOOKING AT PARTNERS THAT CAN WE FINANCE LIGHTING THROUGH, [01:35:03] AND WE'RE SITTING DOWN WITH FPU TO SEE HOW THAT WOULD LOOK SO THAT THEY PROVIDE THE LIGHTS, AND WE, IN A SENSE, RENT THEM FROM THE CITY, LIKE WE DO WITH THE REST OF LIGHTS THROUGHOUT THIS COMMUNITY. THIS IS THAT LIGHT THAT WAS YOU HAVE UPDATE. THIS IS A DESIGN THAT ACC APPROVED SOME MONTHS AGO. THE AVAILABILITY YEARS AGO. HOW LONG? YEAH, YEARS OKAY. OKAY. THE CONCERN THAT WE HAVE IS A CANADIAN BASED COMPANY. THIS IS NOT AVAILABLE. THEY DON'T HAVE THIS. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS. WE MAY BE BRINGING BACK A COMPARABLE DESIGN FROM SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GET THESE LIGHTS FROM. JUST MAKING THAT NOTE, YOU MAY SEE THIS AGAIN. IT'S LIKE, WE ALREADY APPROVED THIS. YOU DID. WE CAN'T GET IT. DOWNTOWN LATA STREET. THE OPENING STREETS IS MOVING ALONG. THE RAILROAD WORK WAS ALL APPROVED AT THE 72 COMMISSION MEETING, AND THAT'S BEEN EXECUTED BY THE RAILROAD. THE VAULTS HAS SINCE BEEN REMOVED. THE SIDEWALK CURVING PROPOSAL HAS BEEN APPROVED. YOU ALL APPROVED THE STREETSCAPE AS WELL TONIGHT. THE STORM DRAINAGE PLAN WILL BE FULLY SUBMITTED BY THE END OF THIS WEEK WITH ST. JOHN'S, AND WE'RE STILL ON TRACK TO OPEN, PUNCH THROUGH BY THE END OF THIS CALENDAR YEAR. THE DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION, EXCUSE ME, THE DOWNTOWN RAILROAD PROJECT. THIS IS A REAL SMALL PROJECT IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE RAILROAD. BASICALLY CLEANED UP THE AREA BETWEEN REPLACE RAILROAD TIES, PUT IN NEW BALLAST ROCK. NO IT'S THE RAILROAD FOOTPRINT. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ATTRACTIVE, BUT I MEAN, THE LEFT BEFORE, THE RIGHTS AFTER, YOU KNOW, THEY TOOK OUT THE WEED TO PUT DOWN WEED BARRIER AND A NEW BALLAST ROCK. >> ARE THEY GOING TO REMOVE ALL THE OLD RAILROAD TIES OR IS THAT NOW OUR RESPONSIBILITY? >> WE'VE HAVE BEEN POLITELY NAGGING THEM THAT, WHEN IS THIS GOING TO GO? THEY HAVE A VERY SLOW TIMELINE. DOWNTOWN NORTH SEVENTH, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO PAVE TODAY. CAN'T PAVE OVER WATER. WE'RE GOING TO REVISIT THIS NEXT WEEK. THIS IS THE NEW SIDEWALKS IN ON NORTH SEVENTH. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CHURCH WITH THE FARMER'S MARK ON THIS. THE STATE THEY'VE BEEN GREAT TO WORK WITH. THEY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS SERVICE TO GET IT RIGHT, AND THE WEATHER HAS NOT BEEN IN OUR FAVOR, AND THAT'S AN UNDERSTATEMENT. BUT AT ANYWAY, THE NEW SIDEWALKS IN, THIS WILL PROVIDE 24 ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES. WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN, THE STORM DRAINAGE PRIMERS ARE DONE. WE HAD TO SHIFT ON THE LEFT IS BEFORE, ON THE RIGHTS AFTER, WE SHIFTED THIS ENTIRE ROAD AS FAR TO THE WEST AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THE WETLANDS THERE IN THAT AREA, YOU KNOW. >> ON THE EAST SIDE? >> YEAH, CALLED FOR. SO WE WENT FROM DIAGONAL PARKING, THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL DESIGN TO PARALLEL TO NARROW THAT. OF COURSE, WE'RE GOING TO ONE WAY TRAFFIC AND PULL EVERYTHING OVER TO THE WEST AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. LIKE I SAID, 24 ADDITIONAL SPOT SPACES, IMPROVE WALKABILITY, AND WE SHOULD BE PAVING THAT AND STRIPING NEXT WEEK. THEY WENT TO DO THE DAY AND YOU CAN'T PAVE OVER A SLOSHY LIME ROCK. IT'S A MESS, BUT IN A FEW BY THE TIME WE MEET NEXT TIME, IT'LL BE DONE. PEC CENTER, ONCE AGAIN, WEATHER DELAYS, BUT THIS PROJECTS 95% COMPLETE, OF COURSE, WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO THIS IS A PROJECT A KEY PROJECT THAT WE WANT TO ALWAYS DISCUSS AND THAT LAST WE HAD TO DO THE STATE. WE HAD TO DO SOME, ACTUAL STRUCTURAL REPAIRS WITHIN PORTIONS OF THE ROOF. IT'S LIKE NOW IS WHEN YOU DO IT, NOT WHEN IT BECOME A POINT OF FAILURE LATER ON. THAT DELAYED THE PROJECT A BIT, AND OF COURSE, EVERYTHING HAD TO BE VETTED THROUGH THE STATE, SO THAT TOOK SOME TIME TO DO AS WELL. BUT WE'RE DONE. WE'RE WE'RE WRAPPING UP, WE'LL BE DONE NEXT WEEK WITH THAT PROJECT. OTHER PROJECTS THAT ARE GOING ON WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN OR SCHEDULED. WE'RE WORKING WITH THE LIBRARY AND A NICE LITTLE LANDSCAPING PROJECT THAT YOU'LL SEE THERE. WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE HERE THAT HAS HELPED THAT PROJECT. ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE FRONT STREET. IT'S BEYOND NEED TO BE RESURFACED AND REPAIRED, PARKING LOT B. THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A REASON TO HOLD OFF. OH, WE'RE DOING THE SEA WALL. WAIT ABOUT BRETT? YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL THESE CONVERSATION THAT SAYS, WELL, LET'S HOLD OFF BECAUSE AND WE'RE AT THE POINT WE JUST CAN'T DO IT ANYMORE. SO FRONT STREET, WE CAN'T HOLD OFF ANY LONGER. FRONT STREET IS ON THE SCHEDULE FOR THIS COMING FISCAL YEAR. WE STARTED HERE IN ABOUT TWO WEEKS TO RESURFACE, AND MORE LIKELY PARKING LOT B WILL BE A PART OF THAT. OF COURSE, WE'LL CONTINUE ON AND TIE INTO THE NEWLY PAVED ROAD AND MAKE THAT CONNECTION THERE. AT THE BOTTOM THERE IS A LITTLE ISLAND THERE IN A LOADING ZONE. WE'RE LOOKING AT REMOVING THAT. IT'S JUST PROVEN TO NOT WORK. THERE'S NO OTHER BETTER WAY TO PUT IT. IT JUST DOESN'T WORK. SO IN OUR PAVING THIS WEEK, AND IN THE NEXT, WE'RE GOING TO BE CUTTING THAT OUT. >> WHAT DO YOU DID STRIPE IT? WE TRUCK GOING TO DO. >> YOU SEE TRUCKS, THEY DON'T USE RUN OVER THE ISLAND, HIT THE SIGN. YOU GOT TO MAKE IT WORK. I KNOW IT'S WELL INTENDED, BUT YOU GOT TO DO WHAT'S PRACS. >> ALL THE FOOD TRUCKS. [01:40:03] >> ALSO INCORRECT DATE. BUT WHAT'S NOT PICTURED AND I KNOW WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVES HERE FROM OLD TOWN IS THE ROAD CONDITIONS. WE'VE BEEN TALKING WITH THE COUNTY ON A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS WITHIN OLD TOWN AS THERE'S MORE DEVELOPMENT THERE, MORE TRAFFIC. YOU GOT CONTINUAL EROSION ISSUES WHEN IT'S ALL THIS RAIN THAT WE'VE HAVE. IF NOT, YOU GOT DUST EVERYWHERE JUST WHEN IT DRIES OUT. SO, OF COURSE, WE'VE BEEN USING COQUINA SHELL MIX FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. A PRODUCT THAT THE COUNTY HAS HAD LUCK WITH, BUT IT'S ONLY A MINOR IMPROVEMENT. IS A MIX OF LIME ROCK, CLAY, THEY CALL THE SUPER MIX. IT WORKS, BUT IT'S NOT A MAJOR IMPROVEMENT. WE'RE LOOKING AT A DOUBLE CHIP SEAL PRODUCT. WE'VE USED IT A COUPLE IN TWO PLACES. ONE OF THEM WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN, NORTH SIX STREET HAS IT. IT'S A GRAVEL TYPE. A GRAVEL ROAD OVER A TAR BASE. WHAT THAT DOES IS IT GIVES YOU THAT GRAVEL PREVIOUS, BUT YOU DON'T GET THE DUST ELEMENTS, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. WE'RE WORKING ON COST TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT WOULD BE FOR ALL THE UNIMPROVED ROADS WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN. STILL US TO BE PERVIOUS. WE DON'T HAVE THE STORM DRAIN SYSTEMS IN PLACE WITHIN ONTOWN. YOU DO HAVE THE ONE PAVED ROAD? > >WHITE STREET. >> YES. ON PAVED ROAD. BUT, WE'RE LOOKING AT OPTIONS THERE. ACTUALLY, WE'RE MEETING WITH THE COUNTY NEXT WEEK TO DRIVE IT AND GET SOME IDEAS FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT MORE UNIMPROVED ROADS THAT THEY MAINTAIN AND SEE, WE COLLABORATE WITH THEM, SEE IF THEY HAVE ANY IDEAS OTHER THAN THE DOUBLE CHIPS THAT WERE LOOKING. >> ACTUALLY TWO. WE FORGOT STRATA BECAUSE OF THE PLAN. >> WHY THAT WAS DONE YEARS AGO, DON'T KNOW, BUT WE GOT MID MIX THERE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO THE OLD TOWN QUESTION. YOU'LL RECALL THAT CAME UP AS A RESULT OF OUR LAST OLD TOWN FORUM WHERE WE WORKED ON SOME STREETS AND MARINE DRIVE. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU KEEPING THAT FRONT OF MIND. WOULD THERE BE PERHAPS A PILOT PROJECT UP THERE TO SEE HOW THIS MATERIAL MIGHT WORK? >> LET ME JUST PLANT THAT SEE THAT AT SOME POINT YOU MIGHT DO A PILOT PROJECT SO THAT BECAUSE RETAINING THE EXISTING CHARACTER OF THOSE STREETS IS CRITICAL TO THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THAT COMMUNITY. IT'S BASICALLY ALL THE SPANISH LEFT US AND THE LOTS. I WAS TALKING TO PAT GAS JUST THIS WEEK, AND SHE REMINDED ME THAT FOR 40 YEARS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DUST IN OLDTOWN AND IT HASN'T GOTTEN ANY BETTER. TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU CAN MOVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT FORWARD, THAT WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL. >> SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF OLDTOWN ARE HERE, AND THIS IS A GOOGLE VIEW OF NORTH SIXTH STREET. I THINK IT'S BEFORE. IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM THE IMAGE. >> BUT APRIL 2024. >> WELL, THAT'S CURRENT. BUT TAKE A LOOK. DRIVE DOWN THAT STREET. YOU'LL SEE HAVE YOU DONE THAT? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. IT'S THAT GRAVEL IS STILL PERVIOUS, BUT SCRABBLE THERE, IT DOESN'T KICK UP ANYWAY BECAUSE IT HAS THAT TARD HESION ON IT. THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING AT. IT'S MORE COSTLY THAN THE COQUINA, SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO PROBABLY PHASE IN. >> THAT'S HELP WITH THERE ARE SOME STREET DRAINS IN TOWN THAT FAN. >> DEFINITELY WOULD HELP WITH THAT. >> YOU GUYS HAVE TO COME IN AND DIG THEM OUT. WE HELP PULL THAT. >> ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE MORE MAINTENANCE FRIENDLY BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, WE GET A HEAVY RAIN THAT, OUR PARKING LOTS, OCEAN AVENUE. WE'RE OUT THERE GRADING, NO MATTER IF WE GRADED IT TWO WEEKS PRIOR, YOU GET A HEAVY RAIN, YOU'RE GRADING IT AGAIN. WE WOULD LOOK FOR DEFINITELY SOMETHING MORE MAINTENANCE FRIENDLY. >> WITH THAT DOUBLE CHIP. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO GUTTERS AND CURVING. >> CORRECT. WHICH THAT'S A HUGE THING. >> CRITICAL BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE STORM DANCE INFRASTRUCTURE THERE. YOU DON'T CURVE. >> WE DON'T HAVE. >> WE DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE SAY. >> WE WANT TO PAY. >> YOU DON'T REALLY WANT PAYABLE. >> IT'S A LOT MORE. YEAH. THAT'S A LOT WE DON'T NEED TO HAPPEN TO DO THAT. >> YEAH. IS ROAD MILLING DO WORK. THEY'VE GOT HIM ALL OVER THE CE. MAYBE NOT HERE IN JACKSONVILLE DO. I WAS A GENERAL CONTRACTOR. I PUT HIM DOWN. ALL IT IS IS GROUND UP ASPHALT. WHAT HAPPENS AFTER A WHILE FROM THE SUN, IT JUST MOLDS IN AND MAKES ASPHALT. >> HE'S LISTENING. >> YEAH. HOPEFULLY, WE'LL SEE SOME. >> WE HAVE R BILLINGS IS OUR GO TO MATERIAL. IT DOES HAVE THAT, THAT DOCKER LOOK, IT DOES CHANGE THE LOOK OF OLD TOWN. IT DOES IN SOME DUSTING ELEMENTS UNTIL IT DOES SET ON LIKE YOU SAID, BUT YEAH, WHEN WE RESURFACE OUR ROADS, ALL THAT MATERIAL GOES BACK TO OUR YARD AND WE GRIND IT, AND THAT'S WHAT WE USE. WE RECYCLED MATERIALS ALL OVER. >> I TALKED TO ONE OF PEOPLE DOWN THE ROAD DEPARTMENT AND HE TOLD ME SAID, I WISH WE COULD DO IT. HE SAID BECAUSE THEY WERE CUT DOWN ON OUR MAINTENANCE OR OUR MAINTENANCE UP THERE. WELL, THEY AIN'T BEEN DOING ANY MAINTENANCE UP THERE IN A LONG TIME. I CAN TELL YOU. WHEN THEY DO BECAUSE I'VE BEEN DOWN THERE COMPLAINING AND WHEN I WENT THERE, [01:45:02] THEY THEY SENT A FRONT END LOAD UP THERE AND THE GRADED IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE IN HIS HOUSE AND DROVE OFF. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND, BUT WE DO HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. >> WAIT A MINUTE. YOU HIS HOUSE, MY HOUSE, ALL THE HOUSES. YOU SEE RATS IN EVERY STONE. HE COME BACK WITH A BACK OR SOMETHING. THE NEXT STONE IS MORE IS WORSE. YOU DON'T GIVE ANY WAR I'VE HERE 23 YEARS. THERE'S NOT A LOT OF WHICH ONE YOU SAID. THE REAL STUFF? A WATER COCAINE? NO. THIS ALL POWERED. >> ITS HARDLY COCAINE. I GOT. BUT WE DID 11 THEN THE CRUSH THIS 45. >> WE'VE TURNED THIS ON TOWN HALL MEETING, SO WE'LL GO TO TIM. >> THERE'S NO COCAINA BECAUSE IT JUST. >> IT'S COQUINA LIMESTONE, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IT TURNS THE DUST. I MEAN, YOU RUN SMALL SHELLS IN THERE, THEN IT JUST YOU'RE RIGHT. >> WE'VE GOT A LITTLE SURVEY MY WIFE AND I. I THINK WE'RE LIKE FOUR TO FIVE HOUSES OFF. BUT ALL TOWNS DOUBLED IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. TO SAY, WELL, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN DUST, I DON'T QUITE BUY THAT. YOU GOT A LOT MORE A LOT MORE TRAFFIC. BE QUITE HONEST WITH YOU. WHEN I WENT HERE FIVE YEARS AGO, THE TROLLEY WENT UP WADE STREET, AND HE TURNED AROUND AND COME DOWN. I'VE NEVER SEEN BLOWN IN OTHER STREETS. BUT TO BE QUITE HONEST WITH YOU MEAN PEOPLE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY UP THERE. THE PLACE IS PRETTY BEAUTIFUL, AND I THINK IT'S WHILE THE TROLLEY MAKES ITS WAY, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU GOING TO DO IS LOOK AT THE PRICE OF BUY A HOUSE UP THERE. >> YEAH. YOU SEE FRUSTRATED WHAT STREET ARE YOU ON, SIR, HELP ME OUT. WHAT STREET YOU ON? > I'LL JUST SAY. YOU'RE ON NEW STREET, RIGHT? >> NEW STREET. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL. >> ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE'RE GOOD THERE WITH THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH, ABSOLUTELY. ARE YOU DONE WITH THIS THE END OF A QUESTION. >> EIGHTH STREET. IS THAT US OR DOT? >> THAT IS US. IT'S A MESS. >> IT IS A MESS. IT'S DANGEROUS. >> THE NEXT STORMWATER PROJECT IS TO REPAIR THE EIGHTH STREET. WHOLE AREA. I JUST WILL NOT DRY UP. IT'S STARTING TO CAUSE ROAD FAILURES. YOU CAN EVEN PATCH IT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PATCH WATER. THAT'S ON ANDRES TO D LIST. IT'S THE NEXT PROJECT HE HAS, AS YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A SYSTEM IN TO ALLOW EIGHTH STREET TO DRAIN. THEN WE'RE GOING TO REPAVE THAT SECTION. >> SO THAT'S JUST, LIKE, STANDING WATER FROM. >> GROUNDWATER FROM THE CEMETERY, RIGHT NEXT. IT NEVER DRIES. >> JEREMIAH, AS WE FINISH, IF YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THREE THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LEADING OUR COMMUNITY, WEARING THE ENGINEERS HAT, WEARING THE PUBLIC UTILIS HAT. WEARING THE CITY MANAGERS HAT. IT REALLY IS APPRECIATED. SECONDLY, THANK YOU TO THE STORMWATER TEAM AND THE MAINTENANCE TEAM FOR ALL THE WORK OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. REALLY INCREDIBLE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT WHEN I LISTENED TO RICHARD NUNN TONIGHT, HE SAID THERE'S NO RAIN IN THE FORECAST FOR A WEEK. >> THAT'S THE BEST THING WE'VE SEEN IN LONG TIME. WHILE WE HAVE A LOT OF REPRESENTATIVES HERE. I'D LIKE TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU GUYS AND FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION, AND MAYBE WE DO A DEMONSTRATION STREET. WE TAKE ONE ROAD AND PUT IN THE MILLINGS AND SEE HOW THAT WORKS. BEFORE WE GO IN AND START CHANGING EVERYTHING. THE DOUBLE CHIP SEALS A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE. THE MILLING IS SOMETHING THAT'S A LOT MORE COST AFFORDABLE, AND WE CAN DO SOONER. WE'LL CHANGE A LOOK WITHIN OLD TOWN. SO IF I GET ONE OF YOUR NUMBERS STREET. YOU'RE TO BE HERE FORM OF THE EVENING AFTER THE MEETING. WE'LL TALK ABOUT. >> MY SAY LOOK TO ME LIKE WE WERE PAVING ON BEACH STREET TODAY. >> YES. >> THANK YOU. >> THAT'S PLANT TREES THERE. TAMMY, ACTUALLY, EARLIER THIS WEEK. PEANUT GRASS IS GOING IN. SO WE'RE EXCITED TO GET THAT PROJECT. >> THAT'S A TRIBUTE TO CHARLIE. THAT PROJECTS MOVING FORWARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU. VERY GET OUT OF HERE. >> FINALLY, FROM A BOARD BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES AND UPDATE AND NEXT STEPS. IT'S ONLY 100 PAGES LONG. >> DIRECTOR? >> IT'S 100 BEAUTIFUL PAGES. >> A HUNDRED PACKED PAGES LONG. >> YES, FILLED WITH INCREDIBLE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR DOWNTOWN. [01:50:03] >> TALK TO US. >> IT'S VERY EXCITING, THE STATE HAS ACCEPTED OUR FINAL DESIGN GUIDELINES. IN LATE AUGUST, WE WERE ABLE TO CLOSE OUT THAT GRANT IN THE BEGINNING OF SEPTEMBER. THIS IS A LIVING DOCUMENT, IT IS YOUR DOCUMENT. IF THERE ARE CHANGES TO IT, I HAVE THE FULL ABILITY TO CONTROL AND MODIFY THAT DOCUMENT. ULTIMATELY, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE BOARD'S ACCEPTANCE THROUGH A FORMAL REVIEW AND HAVE THIS ON THE AGENDA. >> GREAT. >> BUT BEFORE I GET TO THAT POINT, I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN FULLY INCORPORATED SO THAT WE CAN GET TO THAT PLACE AND THEN MOVE IT FORWARD TO THE CITY COMMISSION FOR NOT INCORPORATION INTO THE CODE, BUT IT IS PART OF A RESOLUTION THAT NOW ACKNOWLEDGES THIS IS THE NEW DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT WE ARE OPERATING UNDER. IF AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, YOU WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THAT, WE WOULD BRING IT BACK TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL, AND THEN AGAIN TO THE CITY COMMISSION SO THAT THOSE UPDATES ARE CONSIDERED AND INCORPORATED. >> CAN I THROW A SUGGESTION OUT? >> YES. >> WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE AND WOULD YOU AND THE BOARD BE AMENABLE, COULD WE DO A WORKSHOP ON THIS WHERE WE LITERALLY GO THROUGH PAGE-BY-PAGE SO THAT WE'RE NOT ALL REINVENTING, AND JIM HAS AN IDEA, RUTH HAS AN IDEA. >> I THINK WE NEED TO GO TO THE PUBLIC FORUM. OTHERWISE, WE WILL HAVE TO TALK TO YOU PROPERLY. >> I'M VERY MUCH OPEN TO THAT. >> THEN WE CAN JUST REALLY ALMOST LIKE A CHARTER REVIEW, GO OVER EVERY SINGLE THING AND THEN PUT OUR MINDS TOGETHER AND HAVE A GOOD DOCUMENT THAT WE'RE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH. >> HOPEFULLY, YOU WILL SEE THAT A LOT OF THE REALLY AWESOME FEEDBACK THAT WE HAVE BEEN PROVIDED WITH HAS ALREADY BEEN INCORPORATED, SO HOPEFULLY IT ISN'T MAJOR THINGS. >> I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE MAJOR, BUT IF WE HAVE ALL OF OUR LITTLE THOUGHTS ON IT, THERE'S GOING TO BE LITTLE TWEAKS. [OVERLAPPING] >> I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT. >> I THINK A PAPER COPY WOULD BE GREAT FOR ME TO HAVE A PAPER COPY. [OVERLAPPING]. >> I'M HAPPY TO PRINT THEM ON THE STANDARD PAPER THAT WE HAVE HERE. ULTIMATELY, I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO GET VERY NICE PROFESSIONALLY PRINTED COPIES, TOO. BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT UNTIL WE'RE READY TO SAY THIS IS THE FINAL THAT WE'RE READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH. I'M HAPPY TO GET PRINTED COPIES AVAILABLE OF THAT. I DID ALSO WANT TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE CRA APPENDIX. WE RECEIVED UPDATED DOCUMENTS FOR THAT, I BELIEVE IT WAS TUESDAY MORNING. I'VE NOT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT. I WILL CIRCULATE THAT OUT BECAUSE THAT'S CERTAINLY A REALLY IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF THIS, THE INTEGRATION OF HOW WE LOOK AT THOSE TWO DISTRICTS TOGETHER. I WILL GET THAT OVER TO YOU SOON TO START LOOKING AT AS PART OF THIS OVERALL REVIEW. >> QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR. >> WHAT I CAN DO IS SEND OUT A POLL ASKING ABOUT WHEN THE BOARD WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR EITHER A WORKSHOP OR A SPECIAL MEETING. >> LET'S GET THEM ARCHITECTS AT THE TABLE. >> THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO DO THAT TOO, AND OUR OTHER OUTSIDE DESIGN PROFESSIONALS AS WELL. >> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK ON THIS, AND IT'S GREAT TO SEE THIS MOVING FORWARD. YES, BROOKE? >> I HAVE ONE COMMENT AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT MY COMMENTS FROM WHAT I'VE LOOKED AT SO FAR HAVE GENERALLY BEEN INCORPORATED. MY CONCERN IS THE FACT THAT THEY'RE JUST GUIDELINES. WHEREAS I APPRECIATE THAT THEY'RE GUIDELINES AND IT GIVES THEM FLEXIBILITY, IT ALSO POTENTIALLY LETS THINGS FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS. I'M JUST WONDERING, IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE THEM MORE REQUIREMENTS? HOW COULD IT BE MORE THAN JUST GUIDELINES SO THAT HOMEOWNERS, BUSINESS OWNERS, WHATEVER, THEY ACTUALLY DO NEED TO FOLLOW THESE AND NOT FALL BACK TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH DOESN'T HAVE STRICT REQUIREMENTS. I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SOME EXAMPLES OF SOME PROJECTS THAT'S HAPPENED. >> THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS THAT YOU COULD DO THAT. YOU COULD TAKE THE APPROACH OF FULLY INCORPORATING THEM AS PART OF YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. THAT IS ONE APPROACH. YOU COULD ALSO TAKE THOSE KEY COMPONENTS, AND AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, AS A BOARD AT THE WORKSHOP, YOU COULD IDENTIFY THOSE COMPONENTS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT DETAILS THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE INCORPORATED INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. NOT PULL THEM OUT, KEEP THEM IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, BUT IDENTIFY THEM, AND THEN WE'LL WORK ON EDITS TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT DO FULLY INCORPORATE THAT DETAIL. I KNOW ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THE FRONT YARD FENCE, WHERE IT'S WITHIN A DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICT, AND MAKING SURE THAT THAT IS NOT AN ITEM THAT IS OVERLOOKED IN THE FUTURE. BUT THERE ARE I'M SURE OTHER AREAS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE THAT REALLY CLEAR SIGNAL THAT THIS YOU MUST DO IT THIS WAY OTHERWISE, IT'S A VARIANCE AND WE WOULD SEE THAT REQUEST IN THE FORM OF A VARIANCE, IF YOU WISH TO DEVIATE. [01:55:07] >> THE WHOLE PROCESS HAS BEEN A WORKING PROGRESS AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN WATCHING. BUT I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YOU BRING A LITTLE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE YOU'RE RELATIVELY NEW. >> I GOT ONE. >> YES, PLEASE. >> THANK YOU FOR SENDING OUT THE EMAIL ABOUT THE CONSERVATION FUND MATCH. IS THERE A CITY PORTAL THAT'S NOT ON FACEBOOK FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE ON FACEBOOK AND THEY SAY, WHERE DO I GO? HOW DO I READ ABOUT THIS? DO WE HAVE A PAGE WE CAN GO TO? >> I'M WORKING ON THE UPDATES TO A WEB PAGE THAT WILL CONTAIN ALL OF THAT INFORMATION. >> I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU MY CHECK. >> YES. THEN I KNOW YOU ALSO SENT ME AN EMAIL ASKING TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT SHOWS HOW CLOSE ARE WE TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THAT. >> THAT WAS MY NEXT THING, CAN WE HAVE A PROGRESS TOO? >> SOMEBODY GRANTED THE CITY $50,000 IF YOU GUYS HAVEN'T HEARD. >> WITH A POTENTIAL MATCH FOR 50 MORE? >> ANOTHER MATCH OF 50 IF THE COMMISSION WOULD MATCH 25, AND THEN THE CITIZENS WOULD MATCH 25. THE COMMISSION AGREED TO DO IT IF THE REST OF US CAN COME UP WITH 25,000, SO WE GET A TRIPLE MATCH FOR CONSERVATION OF THE ISLAND. THANK YOU FOR THAT. >> THIS IS IN ADDITION TO THE $50,000 THAT THE COMMISSION HAS ALREADY PUT TOWARDS CONSERVATION IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR. IT WILL BE TREMENDOUS CONSIDERING WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY REAL CONTRIBUTIONS HERE RECENTLY. >> WELL YOU'VE GIVEN US QUITE A LOT TONIGHT. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE SAF REPORT? >> I DON'T. >> VERY GOOD. THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO PUBLIC COMMENT. [8. PUBLIC COMMENT] I KNOW THERE'S SOME FOLKS HERE WHO HAD SOMETHING TO SAY. PLEASE COME ON UP, MR. SPRINGER. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. YES, COUNCIL. >> PUBLIC COMMENT IS THREE MINUTES. >> OH, OKAY. >> ROBERT SPRINGER, 1127 WHITE STREET, OLD TOWN RESIDENT AND EMILIA ISLAND NATIVE. MY FAMILY HAS BEEN HERE 71 YEARS, AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT. I'M HERE TONIGHT TO SHARE MY THOUGHTS ON THE DECISION FOR MR. SPINO STEPPING DOWN AS CHAIRMAN FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL, WHICH YOU STATED AT THE START OF THE MEETING. WHILE I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE RIGHT CALL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMIND EVERYONE AT LEAST WHY I FIND IT NECESSARY AND WHY A LOT OF MY NEIGHBORS HERE TONIGHT AND WATCHING ONLINE FIND IT NECESSARY AS WELL. IN JULY, MR. SPINO HARASSED MY FAMILY, SPECIFICALLY, MY WIFE AND INFANT SON, WHILE THEY WERE SITTING ON OUR PORCH SWING IN OLD TOWN, BY SHOUTING PROFANITIES AND MAKING INAPPROPRIATE FINGER GESTURES, WHILE RIDING HIS BIKE THROW OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, PASSING BY OUR HOME TWICE. THEN TWO WEEKS LATER, HE DID THE SAME THING TO ANOTHER NEIGHBOR, THAT IS HERE TONIGHT AS WELL, AND WHY? BECAUSE OF A POLITICAL FLAG WE HAVE OUTSIDE OF OUR HOME. I WILL NOT STATE THE POLITICIAN, BUT YOU CAN PROBABLY GUESS AS THERE'S A LOT OF EXTREME HATRED IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW AGAINST HIM. BUT THIS ISN'T ABOUT POLITICS, IT'S ABOUT BASIC RESPECT, SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY MISSING WHEN MR. SPINO COMES RIDING THROUGH OLD TOWN ON HIS BICYCLE. I WANT TO ADDITIONALLY STATE, I BELIEVE NO FAMILY, ESPECIALLY MY WIFE, WHO'S A YOUNG MOTHER AND SON, SHOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS KIND OF HATRED AND OUR HOME AND A COMMUNITY WHERE WE'RE ALL HERE TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE. I DO APPRECIATE, MR. SPINO, YOUR DECISION, BUT I HOPE IT'S A REMINDER THAT BEHAVIOR LIKE THIS HAS NO PLACE IN LEADERSHIP AND AN EXAMPLE WAS MADE. HERE'S MY CONCERN AND CONCERN FROM OTHER NEIGHBORS HERE AND WATCHING ONLINE. IF MR. SPINO REMAINS ON THE BOARD, I HOPE THAT THERE'S NO BIAS TOWARDS OLD TOWN WITH ANY OF THE VOTING GOING FORWARD. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. >> THANK YOU, MR. SPRINGER. WHOEVER'S UP, COME ON UP. YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES, AND WE'RE LISTENING. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF. >> BOB SALA, 1130 WADE STREET. JUST TO ADD TO ROBERT. IT WAS THE DAY AFTER THE HURRICANE, MY WIFE AND I WERE CLEANING UP IN THE YARD, I WAS IN THE BACK. I'M SOMEWHAT DEAF. I HEARD HER SCREAMING AND IT WAS BASICALLY TO THE POINT THAT SHE WAS VERY UPSET THAT MR. SPINO HAD RIDDEN HIS BIKE BY AND TOLD HER TO DO SOMETHING TO OUR HOUSE, TO REMOVE A FLAG. SHE SAID IT WAS VERY UNCALLED FOR. WHILE I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE BOARD IS ASKED TO DO OR THE CITY IS ASKED TO DO, I STILL AM CONCERNED THAT HE WOULD STILL HAVE A VOTING RIGHT AND HOLD A BIAS, EVEN WITHOUT KNOWN. IF HE IS TO REMAIN ON THE BOARD, I WOULD ASK THAT HE'D BE LIKE ANY OF THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS THAT GET TO SIT ON THE SIDE AND NOT HAVE A VOTING RIGHT. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS CONCERNING THE 908. DO I HAVE TO WAIT TIL NEXT OCTOBER TO JUST ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? [02:00:02] >> I WOULD. IT WOULDN'T BE NEXT OCTOBER, JUST NEXT MONTH. >> JUST THERE WERE DIFFERENT PICTURES FROM THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL TO WHAT'S NOW, AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S WHAT AND WHERE THE ROADS ARE. >> WELL, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME AND TALK TO ME AND WE CAN LOOK THROUGH THAT TOGETHER. [OVERLAPPING]. >> JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE REQUIREMENTS. >> THANK YOU, MR SALA. MR. GREEN. I'M SORRY, I HAD A BUDDY NAMED TIM MILLER. >> TIM GREEN, 1119 SOMERUELUS STREET. WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO BOB SALA SPEAK. I ACTUALLY SEEN THE CHAIR SHAKE HIS HEAD, NO. WELL, I HAPPENED TO BE COMING DOWN WHITE STREET THAT DAY, AND I KNOW LISA SALA. NOT WHITE STREET, SOMERUELUS STREET. I SAID, HEY, HOW ARE YOU? I'M GOING TO TELL YOU RIGHT NOW SHE WAS MAD. I AIN'T NEVER SEEN HER LIKE THAT. I'VE KNOWN HER WHAT? FIVE, SIX YEARS. NEVER SEEN HER LIKE THAT. SHE TOLD ME WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH THE HOLLERING OF THE POLITICAL FLAG. MY THING IS THIS, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE DISRESPECTFUL TO THE COUNCIL HERE, BUT I WAS JUST CALLED OUT A LITTLE BIT TONIGHT FOR MY ATTITUDE. Y'ALL GOT TO UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE HAVE THESE ATTITUDES. REALLY, THIS RIGHT HERE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THAT TENDS TO GIVE PEOPLE AN ATTITUDE. WHEN I CAME HERE AND THE GUY OVER THE WATER DEPARTMENT TOLD ME THE CITY WAS GOING TO LET MY HOUSE BURN TO THE GROUND. DID THAT NOT TAKE PLACE, MA'AM? YES, IT DID. YOU SEE WHY PEOPLE HAVE AN ATTITUDE AND IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING. BUT GETTING BACK TO THIS SITUATION, THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS BEEN SHOT TWICE. BUT YEAH, WE'VE BEEN CALLED DEPLORABLES, AND ANYBODY WHO SUPPORTS A CONSERVATIVE IDEA AND TO RIDE THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD AND DO THIS, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, IT'S UNEXCUSABLE. I HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH THAT AND I'LL BE QUITE HONEST WITH YOU, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU'VE DONE FOR THE CITY OR ANYBODY ELSE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN MY EYES IS UNEXCUSED; IT IS. YOU KNOW WHAT? WHEN THIS WAS TOLD TO ME, THIS IS THE TRUTH. I WISH I HAD TO SWEAR ON THE BIBLE HERE BECAUSE I WOULD LAY MY HAND ON THE BIBLE FOR THIS. I TOLD MY WIFE I SAID, NO, AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU MY EXACT WORDS THERE. I SAID, HE'S NOT THAT STUPID TO DO THAT. WELL, I GUESS I WAS WRONG. I GUESS I WAS DEAD WRONG. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED YOU FIRED A CITY MANAGER FOR HAVING A FEW BEERS AND WRECKING A BICYCLE. HE REALLY DIDN'T HURT NOBODY BUT HIMSELF. THIS GUY DOESN'T BOTHER ANYBODY. A MATTER OF FACT, I BELIEVE HE WON AN AWARD FOR HIS HOUSE AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY PAID FOR HIS HOUSE OTHER THAN HIM. TO ME, IT'S UNEXCUSABLE, AND I THINK EVEN MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. >> THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? >> RON MORTON OF 1122 SAN FERNANDO STREET. I FIND IT UNACCEPTABLE AND INEXCUSABLE. STEPPING DOWN FROM CHAIRMAN ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH IN MY OPINION. MY OPINION FIRST WOULD WANT YOU OFF THE BOARD. I WROTE SEVERAL OTHER COUNCILMEN HERE. ONE OF THEM DID CALL ME BACK, AND I COULD SWALLOW A PILL, A HARD PILL, BECAUSE YOU DO DO SOME GOOD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT ALL IS, BUT THEY TELL ME YOU DO, SO YOU MUST. BUT I THINK STEPPING DOWN OFF THIS BOARD WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. AT FIRST, I JUST MEANT FOREVER, BUT ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS SAID, WELL, MAYBE SIX MONTHS WOULD DO. JUST STEPPING DOWN, MOVING OVER, IS TO ME, UNACCEPTABLE. I CAN'T REITERATE WHAT THEY'VE ALREADY SAID. THERE'S NO SENSE IN DOING IT. BUT I GUESS THAT'S UP TO YOU AND THE CITY, AND THE CITY THEN ISN'T INCLINED TO DO TOO MUCH ABOUT IT. >> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS AND SENTIMENTS, AND I TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY. I BELIEVE I'VE BEEN INSTRUCTED THAT THAT'S ALL I'M TO SAY. IS THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THIS BOARD? [02:05:03] THANK YOU, ALL. WE'RE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.