[00:00:01]
>> [NOISE] NOW THAT COUNCIL'S HERE,
[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
WE WILL GO AHEAD AND CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.MISS MORGAN, COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL?
>> HERE. MISS BRYNES IS OUT ON BUSINESS.
>> THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
>> WE'RE NOT SEEKING ANY ALTERNATES.
[INAUDIBLE]. WE WILL START WITH MISS TAMMI.
WE START WITH YOU ON EX PARTE. ANY CASE?
>> I CHATTED WITH THE JENKINS BEFORE THIS MEETING.
TALK WITH STAFF ABOUT WATERFRONT PARK.
NO, THAT'S ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
IN THE PAST, MR. PATEL AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE WATERFRONT PARK.
>> I SPOKE WITH STAFF ABOUT WATERFRONT PARK, AND THAT'S ALL.
>> COUNCIL, COULD YOU PLEASE PRESENT THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES OR NO VARIANCES TONIGHT?
>> GOOD. THANK YOU. WE HAVE TWO CASES, ONE UNDER OLD BUSINESS, ONE UNDER NEW BUSINESS.
BOTH WILL BE CONDUCTED AS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS, WHICH MEANS, FIRST, MS. GIBSON WITH CITY STAFF IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD.
SHE'S ALLOWED TO CALL WITNESSES, BUT I DON'T THINK SHE HAS ANY FOR THESE CASES TONIGHT.
NEXT, WE'LL HAVE THE APPLICANT AND/OR THEIR AGENT COME FORWARD, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS HERE AT THE PODIUM, AND THEN YOU'LL BE INTRODUCING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY ON THE RECORD.
THE APPLICANT IS ALSO ENTITLED TO CALL WITNESSES, IF THEY WISH.
THE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY THAT IS PRESENTED TONIGHT ON THE RECORD VERBALLY IS IN ADDITION TO THE PACKETS THAT YOU HAVE, INCLUDING THE APPLICATION AND STAFF REPORT, ANY DRAWINGS.
THOSE ARE ALL PART OF THE RECORD ALREADY.
AFTER THE APPLICANT MAKES THEIR PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCES EVIDENCE, THEN THE BOARD CHAIR CAN CALL UP ANY AFFECTED PARTIES.
AFFECTED PARTIES MEANS THAT YOU'RE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY.
YOU'RE NOT LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU GET TO SPEAK HERE, AND YOU ARE ALLOWED TO INTRODUCE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, AS WELL AS CALL WITNESSES.
THE PARTIES, WHICH INCLUDE THE CITY AND THE APPLICANT, AS WELL AS AFFECTED PARTIES, ARE PERMITTED TO ASK QUESTIONS OF OTHER AFFECTED PARTIES OF THE CITY, OF THE APPLICANT, AND ALSO CALL WITNESSES AND QUESTION THOSE WITNESSES.
EVERYBODY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS-EXAMINE WITNESSES.
IF THERE IS AN APPEAL SOMEBODY WISHES TO BRING ABOUT EITHER OF THE OR FOR ANY OF THE DECISIONS MADE BY THE HDC TONIGHT, THAT APPEAL HAS TO BE FILED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD'S WRITTEN FINDINGS OF FACT, WHICH IS ABOUT 35 CALENDAR DAYS FROM NOW AFTER THE CHAIR AS SIGNS THE FINDINGS OF FACT.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? EVERYBODY THAT WISHES TO SPEAK, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, YOU'RE GOING TO BE SPEAKING UNDER OATH AND THE RECORDING SECRETARY SHORTLY WILL BE ADMINISTERING THAT OATH.
EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND STAND UP AND TAKE THE OATH.
YOU'RE INTRODUCING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY INTO OUR RECORD, WHICH IS A VIDEO AND AUDIO RECORDING OF THE MEETING.
>> WE HAVE VERY USEFUL NOTES FROM BOARD MEMBER BRYNES.
SHE SENT THEM TO KELLY TODAY. WE JUST SAW THEM NOW.\
>> I GUESS THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS INSIDE IT.
DO I WANT THEM IN THE RECORD, AND HOW DO I GET THEM ON THE RECORD? PART OF ME WANTS TO SUGGEST TO BOARD MEMBERS IF THEY JUST READ OUT WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY FIND INTERESTING FROM HER NOTE.
>> THAT IS. WE SEPARATE ANY, I'M NOT GOING TO CALL IT EX PARTE, BUT WHENEVER BOARD MEMBERS, THEY MAY SEND STAFF SOMETHING THAT SAYS, I CAN'T BE AT THE MEETING TONIGHT, BUT I WANT THE BOARD TO KNOW X, Y, OR Z.
THAT IS ALL FINE TO DO, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT HERE.
AS OPPOSED TO WITNESSES AND THOSE THAT ARE TESTIFYING, THEY HAVE TO BE HERE IN-PERSON BECAUSE OF CROSS-EXAMINATION.
BOARD MEMBERS DON'T GET CROSS-EXAMINED.
WITNESSES AND PARTIES DO. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.
WE CAN'T HAVE EMAILS OR OTHER WRITTEN ITEMS SUBMITTED IF SOMEBODY'S ABSENT, IF THEY'RE A PARTY OR AN AFFECTED PARTY.
>> TO THE EXTENT THAT VERONICA PROVIDED US WITH SOMETHING USEFUL, WE CAN JUST READ IT OUT.
IT'S LIKE, THIS QUESTION FROM VERONICA, WE THINK IS VALID.
>> I JUST GAVE YOU THE LAWYER ANSWER.
[00:05:02]
>> THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HERE. ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY TODAY COULD PLEASE NOW STAND AND TAKE THE OATH, AND MISS MORGAN WILL ADMINISTER.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND/OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
IF YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE MINUTES, AND DO YOU HAVE ANY CHANGES?>> WE'RE GOOD. THEN COULD SOMEBODY MOVE AND SECOND THESE SO WE CAN PASS?
>> ANY OPPOSED? YOU GOT MINUTES.
IS THIS YOUR FIRST SET? DID YOU DO THESE?
>> YOU SEE, [INAUDIBLE] THE SECRETARY EMERITUS IS WITH US TODAY.
[LAUGHTER] KEEPING US HONEST. THANK YOU.
WITH THAT, WE CAN BEGIN THE REGULAR AGENDA,
[4.1 HDC 2024-0015 - CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, WATERFRONT LOTS C + D]
AND THAT INCLUDES CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH WATERFRONT LOTS C AND D. THIS IS A CONCEPTUAL, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THE PAVILION TONIGHT.THIS EVENING, THE BOARD IS BEING ASKED TO LOOK CONCEPTUALLY AT THE PAVILION FEATURE FOR THE WATERFRONT PARK AREA WITHIN OUR CRA.
THIS IS SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PAVILION FEATURE AND NOT FOR THE RESTROOMS. IN JUNE, WE DID LOOK AT BOTH OF THEM AND PROVIDED FEEDBACK ON BOTH, BUT TONIGHT WE'VE ONLY RECEIVED ENOUGH INFORMATION TO, AGAIN, LOOK AT THE PAVILION FEATURE ITSELF.
ANYTHING TIED TO THE RESTROOM, WE WILL WAIT TO DISCUSS AT A FUTURE MEETING DATE.
IT WILL STILL FOLLOW THAT SAME APPLICATION TYPE, BUT WE WILL RE-ADVERTISE IT WHEN THAT ITEM IS READY TO COME BACK.
>> THIS EVENING, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT JUST THE PAVILION FEATURE.
ALL OF THE APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU AND ARE PART OF THE BACKUP FOR THIS MEETING ITSELF.
WITHIN THE CRA ITSELF, THE PUBLIC WATERFRONT DESIGN AREA HAS FOUR PRIORITY AREAS.
IT INCLUDES THE INDUSTRIAL WATERFRONT LAND USE RETENTION, WHICH IS NOT REALLY APPLICABLE HERE, PRESERVATION OF RIVERFRONT VIEWS, PUBLIC ACCESS, AND SUPPORTING MARINA FUNCTIONS, DAILY USE, AND SPECIAL EVENTS.
THAT'S JUST A GENERAL SITE AND DESIGN CONSIDERATION FOR THIS PARTICULAR AREA WHERE THE PAVILION IS INTENDED TO EXIST.
AGAIN, THE BOARD IS BEING ASKED, SPECIFICALLY, TO LOOK AT CONCEPTUAL DESIGN FOR THE PAVILION AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WITH THE GOAL TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK SO THAT THESE DESIGNS WILL ALIGN WITH THE AESTHETICS AND FUNCTIONALITY OF THE OVERALL PUBLIC WATERFRONT PARK.
I WON'T REITERATE THOSE POINTS WHICH WE HAD REVIEWED PREVIOUSLY.
AN UPDATED DESIGN HAS BEEN PROVIDED FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.
IN THE BACKUP MATERIALS PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT, I ALSO INCLUDED MORE INFORMATION.
ALTHOUGH IT'S REFERENCED PREVIOUSLY, ALL OF THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES, I DID WANT TO CALL OUT SPECIFIC FEATURES THAT ARE EMPHASIZED AS PART OF THE CRA AND WHAT THE INTENTION BEHIND SOME OF THE PARK FEATURES ARE TO ACCOMPLISH, AND THAT I PROVIDED THE GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS THAT SUPPORTS OVERALL PEDESTRIAN ACCESS, SITE CIRCULATION, MAKING SURE THAT WE CREATE AN OASIS WITHIN THIS AREA.
WE'RE NOT OBSTRUCTING VIEWS AS BEING KEY FEATURES WITHIN THAT WATERFRONT PARK SPACE.
YOU'LL SEE THAT PROVIDED JUST SO IT'S REITERATED WITHIN THE STAFF REPORT ITSELF, THOSE SPECIFIC FEATURES, OR SPECIFIC GUIDANCE FROM THOSE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
ANOTHER AREA THAT OFTEN IS OVERLOOKED, AND AGAIN, A REASON FOR PROVIDING WITHIN THE STAFF REPORT IS THE DIRECTION TO PROVIDE FOR PERMEABLE MATERIALS WITHIN THE CRA.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I PROVIDED FOR IN HERE.
SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF AND WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT DESIGN FEATURES OF THIS AREA.
IT MAY NOT SQUARELY RELATE TO THE PAVILION FEATURE ITSELF AND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, BUT IT IS SOMETHING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW YOU ACCESS THE PAVILION AND ARRIVE THERE, THE ARRIVAL TO IT.
IN TERMS OF ACCESSORY PARK FEATURES, THERE IS SOME REALLY SPECIFIC DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT ARE PROVIDED FOR, AND THAT THEY BE APPROPRIATELY SCALED AND STRATEGICALLY LOCATED TO DEFINE OUR PUBLIC SPACE,
[00:10:01]
AND THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTED WITHIN THE MASTER PLAN OF THE WATERFRONT PARK.IT ALSO SPEAKS TO THE STRUCTURES RESPONDING TO THE MARITIME AND INDUSTRIAL HISTORY OF THE WATERFRONT AREA IN TERMS OF OUR STYLE, MATERIALS, AND DETAILING.
THAT CAN LOOK LIKE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.
IT DOES PROVIDE FOR CERTAIN EXAMPLES OF THAT WITHIN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
I APOLOGIZE, I JUST REALIZED I HAVE THIS ON FREEZE.
YOU CAN'T SEE THE STAFF REPORT.
IT DOES GIVE US A GOOD SENSE OF DIFFERENT STYLINGS FOR WHAT IS EXPECTED FOR THOSE ACCESSORY WATERFRONT PARK FEATURES.
THAT SAME GUIDELINES GIVE SPECIFIC DIRECTION FOR OPEN ACCESS AND REALLY BEING INTENTIONAL ABOUT HOW WE LANDSCAPE AND CONSIDER THE VIEW'S SHED ALONG THE WATERFRONT AREA.
GOING BACK, I KNOW SO MUCH DISCUSSION REALLY SURROUND ON PROTECTING THAT VIEW SHED AND MAKING SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF BLOCKING OF THE VIEW, TO SUPPORT ACCESS AND ALSO TO SUPPORT VIEWS OF THE SUNSET ITSELF.
IN TERMS OF STYLE, IT DOES CALL THAT WITHIN THE CRA THAT YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR DESIGN STYLE OF INDUSTRIAL VERNACULAR, AND IT GIVES REALLY SPECIFIC EXAMPLES OF HOW YOU WOULD GO ABOUT GETTING THAT PARTICULAR STYLE.
AS PART OF THE ANALYSIS PROVIDED FOR THE DESIGN THAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED, STAFF DOES THINK THAT THERE COULD BE SOME MODIFICATIONS THAT DO SERVE TO SUPPORT THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES IN A MORE MEANINGFUL WAY.
THOSE WOULD INCLUDE MODIFYING THESE HAND RAILS.
RIGHT NOW, AS THEY'RE PROPOSED, THEY'RE LARGE IN SIZE AND SCALE, AND THERE'S ALSO QUITE A FEW OF THEM THAT ARE REQUESTED, MAYBE MORE THAN NEED TO BE THERE.
REMOVING A COUPLE OF THEM MIGHT ALLOW FOR MORE OPEN VIEW OUT TO THAT WATER.
IT'S UNCERTAIN WHY WE HAVE THE CONCRETE PLANTERS THAT ARE THERE, BUT IF THEY ARE THERE, MAYBE THEY COULD BE REDUCED IN SIZE SO THAT THEY'RE NOT AS LARGE.
THE OVERALL MASSING WAS A POINT OF CONCERN, PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATED TO OUR GOALS OF MINIMIZING VIEW OBSTRUCTIONS.
IT WAS UNCLEAR FROM THE DOCUMENTS RECEIVED IN THE PAVILION ITSELF ABOUT WHY WE WERE RAISING THIS TO THE GRADE AND HAVING TO THEN HAVE HAND RAILS AND RAMP, WHY THAT HAD BEEN INCORPORATED.
AGAIN, THIS WAS PRESENTED TO STAFF AS BEING A PAVILION AND NOT HAVING BEEN PART OF ANY OTHER CONVERSATION.
IT WAS NOT RECOGNIZED THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY INTENDED TO BE A PERFORMANCE STAGE, AND SO IT IS OFF-GRADE INTENTIONALLY TO SERVE AS A PERFORMANCE STAGE.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I WILL PUT INTO THE RECORD THAT THAT'S BEEN MADE CLEAR TO ME THAT THAT'S THE INTENTION BEHIND THIS.
THAT'S WHY IT IS MADE OFF-GRADE.
IF I'M WRONG, THEN I'M SURE OTHERS IN THE ROOM WILL CORRECT ME.
[BACKGROUND] BUT PERHAPS IT MAYBE DOESN'T NEED TO BE AS HIGH AS IT IS, OR IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO TO MINIMIZE THE BOLT TIED TO IT, MAYBE WE CAN TALK THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE TOGETHER.
THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT BRACKETING STYLES THAT ARE PROVIDED ON EAST-WEST AND NORTH-SOUTH ELEVATIONS, AND JUST IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT SIMPLE DESIGN FORM OR ANY FORM, PICK ONE, AND AGAIN, MAYBE BRING IN SOME OF THOSE FEATURES THAT REALLY GET BACK TO THE INDUSTRIAL VERNACULAR, SUCH AS THE EXPOSED CONNECTIONS OR THE CABLING THAT BETTER ENFORCE THE DESIGN AESTHETIC THAT IS CALLED FOR IN THE CRA.
ALSO, THINKING ABOUT TAPERED COLUMNS, WE DO HAVE AN EXISTING FEATURE OUT THERE ALONG THE WATERFRONT AREA THAT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BY THE HDC AND EXISTS THERE TODAY, AND THOSE ARE THE SUN SHELTERS.
PICKING UP ON SOME OF THE AESTHETIC THAT EXISTS THERE IN THOSE SUN SHELTERS IS A WAY TO BETTER CONNECT THESE FEATURES TOGETHER IN THEIR OVERALL RELATIONSHIP.
THINKING ABOUT THOSE TAPERED COLUMNS THAT SUPPORT IT, I KNOW THEY'RE ALSO [INAUDIBLE] IN MATERIAL, AND THEY ALSO INCORPORATE SOME CABLING THAT IS A NICE WAY TO BRING BACK THE INDUSTRIAL VERNACULAR DESIGN.
THERE'S STAMPED WOOD AS A FORM THAT'S PROVIDED FOR AS PART OF THIS.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE PERSONALLY SEEN, AND MAYBE I'VE OVERLOOKED IT ALONG THE WATERFRONT IN ITS CURRENT VIEW, BUT THIS WOULD BE AN INTRODUCTION OF THAT STAMPED WOOD IN OUR WATERFRONT AREA.
IT WASN'T CLEAR WHY WE'RE BRINGING THAT PARTICULAR DESIGN ELEMENT IN.
BUT MAYBE THINKING ABOUT SHELL OR A DIFFERENT SURFACE OPTION, INSTEAD.
[00:15:04]
AGAIN, MAYBE THINKING ABOUT WHAT IS PROVIDED FOR IN THE SUN SHELTERS TO INCORPORATE THOSE TO INCOMPATIBILITY.THINKING ABOUT ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS, I KNOW THAT THERE IS NOW A STAGE TYPE AREA THAT'S PROVIDED FOR IN THE CENTER, AND THEN THE REQUEST IS TO HAVE THE BRAZILIAN IPE.
MY THOUGHT ON THAT WAS JUST IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABLE MATERIALS AND FINDING LOCALLY RESOURCED MATERIALS.
MAYBE THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD FIND LOCALLY THAT IS MORE TRADITIONALLY FOUND WITHIN THIS AREA.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE BRAZILIAN IPE IS SUSTAINABLE IN TERMS OF HOW HARD IT IS, AND THAT IT LASTS A REALLY LONG TIME, WHICH MAKES IT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE DESIRABLE.
BUT PERHAPS WE COULD FIND SOMETHING THAT IS LOCALLY SOURCED, AND SOMETHING WE WOULD TYPICALLY FIND WITHIN THIS AREA AS AN ALTERNATIVE.
THEN THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS, AND I KNOW THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THE BOARD HAD HIT ON PREVIOUSLY, LOOKING [NOISE] AT THE DIFFERENT DESIGN FEATURES AND HOW THEY RELATE TO THE LANDSCAPING COMPONENT.
THE DESIGN GUIDELINES ITSELF DOES CALL FOR THAT IN TERMS OF GETTING THAT LANDSCAPE DESIGN AND FOCUSING THAT LANDSCAPE DESIGN WITH ANY OF THE NEW ELEMENTS.
WE DON'T SEE THAT IN THE MATERIALS PROVIDED AT THIS POINT, AND I THINK BEING ABLE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP OF THIS ELEMENT WITH THE LANDSCAPING WOULD BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.
WITH THAT, STAFF DOES HAVE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION, PROVIDE ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK, AND THEN FINALIZE ANY DIRECTION AT A FUTURE MEETING FOR A FULL COA.
>> QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR. WHO'S TESTIFYING? IS IT YOU, LISA FINKELSTEIN? BECAUSE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT OUR QUESTIONS FOR HER.
>> WE'RE GOOD. WIND UP, INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARDWORK.
>> LISA FINKELSTEIN HERE TONIGHT AS THE CHAIR OF THE CRA ADVISORY BOARD.
REALLY OUR GOAL TONIGHT IS TO REVISIT THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE AFTER OUR CONVERSATION IN JUNE, ADDRESSING SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP BY THIS GROUP THAT HAVE NOW BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE NEW PLANS, AND THEN ADDRESSING THE ANALYSIS THAT MS. GIBSON PROVIDED FROM HER DEPARTMENT.
I JUST THOUGHT I'D RUN THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF THE ANALYSIS, AND THEN HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS.
MR. SMITH FROM BIDEN HALL IS HERE, SO HE CAN ALSO ANSWER QUESTIONS, OBVIOUSLY.
HE IS MORE OF AN EXPERT ON THIS THAN I AM.
MY GOAL TONIGHT IS REALLY TO GET CONSENSUS AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED ALL OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAD SO THAT WE CAN TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PLANS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE ANALYSIS ARE THE CONCRETE PLANNERS, AND THEY HAVE BEEN REMOVED.
THEY ARE NO LONGER IN THE PLAN.
THEN MS. GIBSON ADDRESSED THE HEIGHT, AND THAT THAT WAS A CONCERN, BUT THERE WAS A REASON THAT WAS DONE.
IT WAS BROUGHT UP 21 INCHES IN ORDER THAT IT COULD BE USED AS A PERFORMANCE STAGE AS WELL AS A PAVILION.
WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT INTERFERES WITH THE LINE OF SIGHT, RAISING IT UP.
I THINK IT WILL BE MUCH MORE USEFUL IN OTHER WAYS IF WE HAVE IT THAT WAY.
WE LOOKED AT THE BRACKETS LAST TIME.
IF YOU REMEMBER, WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD CONVERSATION ABOUT THEM.
WE HAD A COUPLE OF ALTERNATIVES.
REALLY, THIS WAS WHAT WAS SELECTED LAST TIME.
WE HAVE ALREADY LOOKED AT IT, BUT WE CAN REVISIT IT AGAIN.
THE CABLING IS INCORPORATED IN THE RAILINGS, IF YOU NOTICE.
I DO RECALL THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF HAND RAILS AND THE SIZE OF THE TOPS OF THE HAND RAILS.
I DO NOT THINK THAT'S BEEN ADDRESSED YET.
HERE, IT'S STILL SHOWING A LOT OF HAND RAILS ACROSS EACH ENTRANCE.
I THINK THAT'S A PLACE THAT WE STILL HAVE ROOM TO MAKE A CHANGE.
THE WOOD STAMPED CONCRETE IS ON THE SIDES, SO THAT WOULD GIVE IT
[00:20:01]
AN ADDED FEATURE WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE SIDE OF IT INSTEAD OF BEING JUST A FLAT CONCRETE.IF NOT THE WOOD STAMPED CONCRETE, THEN WE WOULD NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WOULD THE APPEARANCE OF THE SIDES.
I THINK WHEN YOU SEE THE SIDE VIEW, YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT'S DRAWN IN AS TO WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
ONE MORE, KELLY. AGAIN. MAYBE, I DON'T THINK IT'S IN ANY OF THESE, BUT IT'S THIS AREA HERE.
[BACKGROUND] I THINK IN THE FULL PLANS THAT MR. SMITH HAS, IT SHOWS IT BETTER THAT THERE WOULD BE WOOD THAT WOULD BE PUT INTO THE FORM AND THEN THE CONCRETE POURED.
IT WOULD GIVE THAT IMPRESSION SO THAT IT HAD SOME TEXTURE AND SOME INTEREST OTHER THAN JUST BEING FLAT CONCRETE.
AGAIN, UP FOR DISCUSSION IF THAT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
AS FOR THE FLOORING MATERIAL OF THE PLATFORM ITSELF, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE EPA WOOD AS A NATURAL MATERIAL THAT WOULD WITHSTAND SOME WEAR, BUT AGAIN, WE HAD NOT EVER REALLY TALKED ABOUT A PERMEABLE PAVER.
I'M NOT SURE THAT A PERMEABLE PAVER IS NECESSARY SINCE WE'RE UNDER ROOF.
WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE PAVERS AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF THE ROOF COVERING.
BUT I'M NOT SURE, AGAIN, IF PUTTING THEM UNDER THE ROOF MAKES SENSE, BUT UP FOR DISCUSSION, CERTAINLY.
THEN THE LARGER LANDSCAPE PLAN.
WHEN WE STARTED THIS DISCUSSION, THAT WHOLE PLAN CAME BEFORE THIS GROUP, AND IT'S GONE THROUGH THE CITY COMMISSION AND EVERYTHING TOO.
THESE VERTICAL ELEMENTS, THIS AND THE RESTROOM, ARE INTEGRATED INTO THE PLAN. THEY ALWAYS WERE.
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR TONIGHT IS REALLY APPROVAL TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PIECE OF THE WHOLE PLAN.
WE DO HAVE THE FULL PLAN AVAILABLE TO BE LOOKED AT, AND I BELIEVE THAT YOU ALL HAVE SEEN IT, BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN.
THEN, LIKE I SAID, IF I CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS, GREAT.
IF NOT, MR. SMITH IS IN THE ROOM, HE CAN CERTAINLY ANSWER QUESTIONS. SURE.
>> I WANT TO GO FIRST. ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I HAVE, I KNOW YOU WANT TO RAISE IT UP HIGHER, BUT IF YOU CUT THAT IN HALF, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY HAND RAILS OF.
WHATEVER THE TWO FEET OR WHATEVER, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE RAILS ALL AROUND IT, THAT WOULD JUST MAKE THIS, TO ME, A LOT MORE ENJOYABLE AND OPEN BY NOT RAISING IT UP, AND FOR THE FEW TIMES OR WHATEVER THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO HAVE A BAND OR SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS JUST HAVE A TEMPORARY STAGE THAT'S JUST CLICKS DOWN ON THAT, BUT ON THE REGULAR TIME, IT'S JUST COMING UP.
ALL THOSE STAIRS THAT YOU HAVE AROUND WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY OF THESE BULKY HAND RAILS.
IT COULD JUST BE A COUPLE STEPS GOING UP INTO A VERY NICE OPEN SPACE, AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ALL THESE CABLES GOING AROUND IT AND TYING IT ALL IN.
>> CAN I INTERRUPT JUST A SECOND, LISA?
>> WHAT HEIGHT ARE WE AT? WHAT'S OUR ELEVATION HERE ON ON THE PAVILION FLOOR?
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S 21 INCHES, BUT TWO FEET. [OVERLAPPING]
>> TWO FEET. WE WERE 18 INCHES LAST MONTH.
TAMMY, AM I GOING TO NEED RAILS AT 21 INCHES?
>> I'LL TAKE THE WORDS OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, BUT IF YOU LOSE, YOU CAN LOSE THE RAIL.
>> THAT A HUGE EXPENSE THOUGH.
>> INTRODUCE YOURSELF. NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
>> MY NAME IS PAT SMITH. I'M AN ARCHITECT.
WE WERE THE PEOPLE WHO DREW THIS FOR YOU.
>> THANK YOU. TELL US ABOUT THE RAILS IN BLACK AND WHITE.
>> RAILS ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR A TWO FOOT DROP, ONLY 30 INCHES.
HOWEVER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OLDER PEOPLE UP HERE AND YOUNG CHILDREN.
SOMEONE FALLS, YOU'RE SUBJECT TO A LAWSUIT.
>> NOW, FOR THE HAND RAILS, BUILDING CODE IS KICKING IN.
I CAN ONLY GO FIVE FEET BETWEEN HAND RAILS.
>> AN ANY POINT. IF IT'S A STEP, IT'S CENTERS.
NOW YOU HAVE THREE RISERS AND FOUR TRACKS.
>> FIVE FEET. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SO MANY.
>> THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE SO MANY.
>> OF COURSE, YOU DIDN'T HAVE STEP THERE.
[00:25:01]
>> IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A STEP THERE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A RIP.
>> RIGHT. BUT YOU'D HAVE TO GO PRETTY LOW TO NOT HAVE A STEP, EVEN IF YOU WENT BACK TO THE 21 INCHES.
>> THE 18, YEAH, WE'D STILL NEED STEPS.
>> WE'RE IN AN UNUSUAL SITUATION.
>> YOU CAN ALWAYS HAVE A GREAT PART OF IT AROUND THE STRUCTURE AND THEN YOU COMPENSATE THAT.
I'M NOT AGAINST THE RATINGS AT ALL, THE COMING DOWN.
I THINK IT CLOSES THE STRUCTURE AND CLOSES THE USE.
>> WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT LIGHTER.
INSTEAD OF ALL THE VERTICAL BEING WOOD AND THOSE BIG HAND RAILS, MAYBE JUST A STAINLESS STEEL SYSTEM, ALL STAINLESS STEEL.
THAT WAY THE STRUCTURE POPS OUT IN THE RAILINGS DIPATE A LITTLE BIT, THAT THAT WOULD BE MINE.
>> MY HAND RAILS ARE STILL IN DESIGN.
>> THE ORIGINAL PLAN HAD THE INTEGRATED GOOSENECK HAND RAILS IN A STAINLESS. LOOK, THAT WERE MUCH.
>> YOU HAD A PIPE HAND RAIL AND WHAT I SAW, WE JUST DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS CONDUCIVE TO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO HERE.
>> YOU HAVE TO GO EVERY FIVE FEET?
>> CORRECT. I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO REACH THAT HAND RAIL WITHIN FIVE FEET.
IT SEEMS TO BE [OVERLAPPING] IS WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO MATCH YOUR CITY AND YOUR TRAIN STATION.
THAT'S WHAT WE WERE SHOOTING FOR.
I AGREE, I DON'T REALLY CARE FOR THE THE VERTICAL PATTERN ON THE OUTSIDE.
I THINK WHAT I HAD TO DO INSTEAD IS CREATE A CRISS-CROSS PATTERN TO REPRESENT AROUND THERE AND EMBED THAT INTO THE CONCRETE.
>> THAT ONE I'LL ACTUALLY ALSO PICK UP ON THE SUN SHAPE BECAUSE THE EXCLUDES THAT CROSS CLING ON THOSE STRUCTURAL CLING ON THOSE.
>> [OVERLAPPING] OR THE CONCRETE.
>> STILL USE YOUR CONCRETE, BUT PUT IN A LATTICE.
IMPREGNATION AROUND THE EDGES.
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE STAMPED CONCRETE.
>> I WAS ON THAT. I WAS THINKING WE HAVE ON THE SEAWALLS.
WE HAVE A SMOOTHER CONCRETE FINISH WITH THE INDUSTRIAL TIE IMPRINTS WHEN YOU PULL THE CONCRETES.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE, AGAIN, MAKING IT CLEANER AT THE BASE AND MAKING THE PAVILION STAND OUT.
I THINK THAT COULD BE AN IDEA INSTEAD OF MAKING IT MORE A DETAIL, MAKE IT SMOOTHER LIKE THE SEAWALL.
I DON'T KNOW IF IF YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT, BUT IT'S A SMOOTHER.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S PLASTERED OVER OR IF IT'S JUST THE POURING OF THE CONCRETE WAS THERE YOU GO, EXACTLY.
>> THEY DID A LITTLE COCINA TOP ON.
>> THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION, TOO.
THAT'S NOT A STAMPED CONCRETE.
>> THAT'S WHAT I'M [OVERLAPPING]
>> IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR REASON WHY YOU HAVE TO HAVE SO MANY STEPS GOING ALL THE WAY ACROSS? IT'S NOT GOING TO BE BASED ON THE CONCERT THEN YOU COULD HAVE A COUPLE OF STAIRS SO YOU CAN ELIMINATE SOME OF THOSE BULKY RAILINGS.
>> THE STAIRS, THE AMOUNT THAT YOU HAVE THERE, WE JUST FOLLOW THE DESIGN THAT WAS GIVEN TO US.
>> BUT GOING TO TEAM, I THINK I UNDERSTAND THESE POINTS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS FROM ALL FOUR POINTS.
YOU CAN LIMIT ACCESS TO THREE POINTS OR TWO POINTS.
>> THEN ELIMINATE HALF THE RAILS.
>> ESPECIALLY ON THE FRONT SIDE.
>> YEAH. WE USES THE STAGE ON THE STAGE SIDE, YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS.
>> WHEN YOU SAY FRONT SIDE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
>> BECAUSE NOW IT APPEARS TO ME THAT YOU WOULDN'T SEE THE VAN.
YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THE VAN FOR
>> RIGHT. YOU WOULD HAVE HAND RAILS ALL THE WAY ACROSS IN FRONT OF IT.
>> I KNOW WE'RE GIVING YOU A LOT TO THINK ABOUT HERE.
>> WE'RE JUST SIMPLIFYING IT ACTUALLY.
>> YES. I THINK THIS IS COST CLEARLY A CASE OF LESS MORE.
WHAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT IS AS THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL GETS ENTERED INTO IT, THEN WE COME BACK LATER WITH A BID AND EVERYBODY IS WE CAN'T AFFORD THIS.
WHAT AS IF WE SIMPLIFY, TRY TO KEEP THE NUMBERS DOWN, MAYBE A LITTLE VALUE ENGINEERING.
>> TAMMY, DID YOU HAVE QUESTIONS?
>> WELL, I THINK AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE HEIGHT OF IT ALSO, WHAT WE HAVE THE TECHNICAL ELEVATIONS.
WE DON'T HAVE A CONTEXTUAL ELEVATION.
I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE THIS POPPED IN PLACE WITH SOME POINT OF REFERENCE, EVEN OUR EXISTING ATLANTIC SEAFOOD OR A SUN PAVILION OR SOMETHING ELSE.
WE KNOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, DO WE HAVE THIS HUGE WORK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE COMPLAINING ABOUT FOREVER.
THAT'S GOING TO HELP US REALLY DETERMINE DOES THAT 21 INCHES,
[00:30:01]
24 INCHES, 18 INCHES MAKE A DIFFERENCE?>> YOU CAN REALLY DO A LOT WITH, YOU COULD HAVE A MOUND COMING UP AND ALMOST MAKING IT.
THEN IT LOWERS WHERE YOU HAVE SOME STEPS INTO AN AREA WHERE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO JUST BE A MONOPLANE. IT CAN BE.
>> THERE COULD BE ALL KINDS OF THINGS. THE OTHER THING I WAS WONDERING IS, WOULD WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT EXTENDING THE DEPTH OF THE TREAD AND ADJUSTING THE RISERS PROPORTIONATELY.
IT'S ALMOST MORE LIKE A PHOTO TRAFFIC SITTING AREA.
IT'S SITTING, IT'S GREAT FOR GATHERINGS AND WHATNOT, INSTEAD OF JUST A SEVEN INCH 11 INCH.
>> I HAVE A LOT OF REAL GOOD IDEAS HERE, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO PULL THEM ALL TOGETHER IN SOME COHERENT BARS.
>> TO OUR SIX INCH RISERS, I KNOW THEY SAID THEY WANTED SEVEN BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE OLDER PEOPLE IN, YOUNG PEOPLE SEVEN INCH OF PITCH, SO WE WENT SIX AND A 12.
THAT RATIO IS WHAT CODE SAYS, TWO RISERS PLUS 3.125.
>> IF YOU GO WIDER, THEN YOU GO A LITTLE BIT SHORTER.
>> OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. SMITH OR HARLEY?
>> I HAVE A COUPLE MS. HARLEY.
>> YOU GUYS TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TEXTURED CONCRETE ON THE PLANERS AND I'VE GIVEN PROBABLY WAY MORE THOUGHT THAN I NEEDED TO.
I REMEMBER WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS THAT WE HAD PRESENTED SOME IMAGES.
THEY WERE OLD HISTORIC IMAGES OF THAT ACTUAL AREA WHEN IT WAS A REAL WORKING DOCK WHERE WATERFRONT.
THERE WAS LIKE A FIELD OF BARRELS, AND THEY ALL HAVE THAT VERTICAL WOOD PATTERN.
THIS, TO ME, WHEN I STARTED THINKING ABOUT IT EVOKED SOME OF THAT IMAGERY WITH THAT VERTICAL WOOD BANDING, AND WHEN I STARTED THINKING ABOUT IT THAT WAY, IT STARTED MAKING A LITTLE MORE SENSE TO ME THAT MAYBE THIS IS A FEATURE THAT CAN BE PULLED IN TO MAYBE EVOKE SOME OF THOSE IMAGES THAT WE SAW THERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S WORTH INVESTIGATING, BUT I JUST FELT COMPELLED TO TALK ABOUT IT SINCE I SPENT SO MUCH TIME THINKING ABOUT IT.
>> I AGREE WITH THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS THAT IF WE CAN REDUCE QUANTITY OF RAILING AND THE VISUAL IMPACT OF THE RAILING, THAT WILL ALL BENEFIT THIS, AND THERE'S THE STRATEGIES I'VE HEARD THROWN OUT THERE ARE BRING DOWN THE HEIGHT OF THE PAVILION FLOOR TO POTENTIALLY ELIMINATE SOME OF THE DECK RAILING AND THEN PERHAPS REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF STAIR TO ELIMINATE SOME OF THE STAIR HAND RAILS.
I LOOKED UP THE CODE ON THAT AND I SAW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE RAILINGS THE NUMBER HE'S SHOWING THERE ARE THERE BECAUSE THE CODE IS TELLING HIM HE HAS TO BE THERE.
>> THAT'S TRUE. IF YOU HAVE THAT MAY STAIRS.
>> RIGHT. WHAT TIM IS BRINGING UP IS THAT IF WE REDUCE THE WIDTH OF THE STAIRS, WE CAN ELIMINATE SOME OF THOSE RAILINGS.
ONE OF THE ITEMS I READ IN VERONICA'S NOTES THAT WAS REALLY COMPELLING TO ME WAS HOW THE ACCESSIBILITY RAMP, IT ADDRESSES THE BACKSIDE OF THE WATERFRONT INSTEAD OF THE SIDE SIDE.
THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO FLIP IT JUST SO IT'S EASIER FOR SOMEBODY WHO NEEDS TO USE IT TO GET TO IT.
>> THE ROOF ITSELF, I THINK GETTING A UNIFORM, NICE, DEEP OVERHANG ON THAT OF SOMEWHERE AROUND TWO FEET.
>> WE'RE SHOWING 30 INCHES IN THE LAST DIVISION OF OUR [OVERLAPPING]
A NICE BIG OVERHANG IS GOING TO MAKE THAT LOOK CONTEXTUAL, I THINK.
I ALSO SPENT A LOT OF TIME LOOKING AT THE DECORATIVE GABLE ENDS.
I TRIED TO UNDERSTAND THE ARTICULATED ONE OR THE STRAIGHTFORWARD ONE, WHICH DIRECTIONS WERE THEY FACING NORTH-SOUTH, WHICH ONES GO NORTH SOUTH? IS THAT THE ARCHED ARTICULATED ONE NORTH-SOUTH?
[00:35:02]
>> YEAH. WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE FRONT WOULD BE THE ARCHED VERSION, AND THEN THE OTHER IS THE SIDES.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PARK, THAT WOULD BE THE SIDE YOU CHOOSE TO ELIMINATE THE STEPS ON IF WE COULD AND OPEN THAT SIDE UP SO THAT IT'S A BETTER VIEWING, BUT YET THE WHOLE THING IS STILL ABLE TO BE USED AS A PAVILION.
>> YEAH, I'D ALMOST BE INCLINED TO JUST USE ONE DESIGN.
I HAPPEN TO LIKE THE ARTICULATED ONE.
PERHAPS JUST USE THAT ON ALL SIDE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THE OTHER MEMBERS FEEL ABOUT THAT, BUT IT JUST IT'S [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT'S CONSISTENT WITH ONE TRAIN DEPOT.
>> THE ARTICULATED ONE EVOKES TRAIN DEPOT DETAILING TO ME, AND I THINK IT HAS VALUE BEING ON THE PAVILION.
THE WEATHER VANE THAT'S UP THERE, THE SCALE AND PROPORTION OF IT, IT SEEMS LIKE AN AFTERTHOUGHT.
IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT, HEY, DOWN THE ROAD WE COULD HAVE A LOCAL ARTIST DO SOMETHING NEAT THAT COULD GO UP THERE THAT WOULD BE WORTH SOMETHING.
>> THERE YOU GO. BUT FOR NOW, I DON'T THINK IT BRINGS ANYTHING TO THE EQUATION. I AGREE.
>> IT'S ONE TROPICAL STORM AWAY FROM BEING A BRICK. [LAUGHTER]
>> I WOULD CONSIDER MAYBE RETHINKING THAT BEING ON THE THING.
I THINK THE BIGGEST QUESTION FOR ME WAS, AND I'M NOT AWARE OF THE PROGRAM THAT YOU WERE GIVEN THAT YOU HAD TO ADDRESS, BUT WHAT'S DRIVING THE NEED TO HAVE THE WOOD DECKING AS PART OF THE FLOOR OF THE PAVILION?
>> IT WAS A PARAMETER WE WERE GIVEN.
>> IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY SPENT A LOT OF TIME DETAILING HOW THAT'S GOING TO BE BUILT AND HOW IT'S GOING TO FUNCTION.
I JUST QUESTIONED WHAT VALUE WAS HAVING A WOOD DECK THERE BRINGING TO THE OVERALL PROJECT AND [OVERLAPPING]
>> THE COST OF MAINTENANCE IMMEDIATELY COMES TO MIND TO ME.
I'D USE IT ON EVERY PROJECT OF MINE IF I COULD, BUT I KNOW IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE.
I'VE BEEN HEARING COMMENTS FROM BUILDERS THAT THE EPAY YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON THESE DAYS ISN'T THE EPAY YOU COULD GET FIVE YEARS AGO.
POTENTIALLY IT'S NOT GOING TO LAST AS LONG AS WE MAY THINK IT WILL.
I QUESTION THE NEED TO HAVE THAT THERE.
I DO SEE A VALUE IN HAVING A TEXTURE THERE, WHETHER THAT BE ACHIEVED THROUGH PUTTING THE PAVERS THERE OR SCORING THE CONCRETE OR SOMETHING TO BRING DESIGN INTO THE FLOOR.
I CERTAINLY SEE VALUE IN THAT, BUT I QUESTION, DO WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THE EXPENSE, BOTH THE UPFRONT EXPENSE, THE DETAILING EXPENSE OF HOW DO YOU BUILD THAT WOOD DECK AND THE MAINTENANCE, THE LONG TERM COST OF IT? THIS IS COMING UP BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS IN THE PARAMETERS OF THE PROGRAM.
>> IS THAT AN ACOUSTICAL DECISION?
>> NO, I THINK ORIGINALLY, IT WAS REALLY THAT BRINGING IN THOSE ELEMENTS OF WOOD, METAL INTO IT.
BUT I THINK WE HAVE THE WOOD REPRESENTED PRETTY WELL.
>> I THINK THIS WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT, LIKE I SAID, IT COULD CHANGE THAT MATERIAL.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S ALL CONCRETE, THAT'S A BIG HUNK OF CONCRETE OUT THERE.
>> IT'S KIND OF PATTERN TO BREAK DOWN THE SCALE.
>> JIM IF YOU GO THROUGH THERE.
>> I HAVE REALLY MORE OF A QUESTION.
I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE SO FAR ABOUT REDUCING THE NUMBER OF HAND RAILS.
HOWEVER, THAT WOULD NEED TO HAPPEN.
I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE STEPS NOT AS HIGH SO THAT THEY'RE MORE GRADUATED TO GET UP TO THE DECK.
>> MY GOAL WITH THIS WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE BEEN TO SAY, THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PARK THAT WE'RE DESIGNING THAT OUGHT TO TALK ABOUT OR EVOKE OLD FERNANDINA, AND WHAT OUR HISTORY IS ALL ABOUT.
THE SHRIMPING INDUSTRY OR PRIOR TO THAT, THE TIMBER INDUSTRY.
I THINK YOU'RE DOING THAT WITH A LOT OF THE MATERIALS THAT ARE IN HERE, BUT HAVING A SLOW RISE AND SLOPE ALMOST FEELS LIKE WATER TO ME,
[00:40:01]
TO GET UP TO THE DAM, AND I DON'T AGREE ENOUGH TO KNOW IF THAT'S EVEN DOABLE, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE ALL OF THIS IS VERY VISUAL.THE COMMENTS THAT YOU'VE HEARD TODAY HAVE BEEN TO KEEP THAT VISUAL AS CLEAN AS POSSIBLE.
I THINK WHATEVER WE CAN DO IS TO EVOKE THE FACT THAT THIS IS SITTING ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT USED TO BE OUR HARBOR, AND IT'S WHERE ALL OF THE ECONOMY HAPPENED IN FERNANDINA.
I DON'T WANT TO MISS THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRING BACK SOME OF THAT HISTORY IF WE CAN DO THAT.
INSTEAD OF HAVING A SQUARE STEP STEP, IT FLOWS.
>> TO TRY TO EVOKE THOSE IMAGES THROUGH THIS WHOLE PART WOULD BE REALLY TOP NOTCH, I THINK.
IT IS OUR OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING TOP NOTCH.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING THE FRONT STEPS, AND I'M TALKING JUST ABOUT THE STEPS [OVERLAPPING]
>> CAN WE DO NORTH-SOUTH EAST-WEST INSTEAD OF FRONT BACK?
>> SURE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING THE STEPS ON THE SOUTH SIDE, WHICH WOULD THEN ALSO ELIMINATE THE HAND RAILS THERE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE HAND RAILS FROM THE WOOD AND CABLE THAT YOU SEE TO STEEL OR METAL AND CABLE TO AGAIN, REDUCE JUST THE MASS OF THEM.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE CABLES GOING UP EACH ONE BECAUSE THAT'S MORE EXPENSE.
>> THE CABLES IN THAT SITUATION NOT SO IMPORTANT, DO THEM ON THE SIDE RAILS, BUT NOT ON THE HAND RAILS.
THEN REGARDING THE RISERS AND THE TREADS, I THINK WHAT I HEARD IS CURRENTLY, THERE'S A SIX INCH RISER WITH A 12 INCH TREAD, AND WE WOULD WANT TO GO WIDER AND SHORTER, SO IT WOULD BE A FOUR INCH RISER AND WHATEVER THE APPROPRIATE TREAD WOULD BE TO MAKE THOSE MORE GRADUAL, WHICH WOULD ADDRESS.
THEN SOMEBODY ALSO SAID SOMETHING ABOUT REDUCING THE WIDTH OF THE STAIRS TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF HAND RAILS.
>> THAT WOULD BE ON THE EAST AND THE WEST SIDE BECAUSE THE NORTH SIDE HAS THE RAMP?
>> INSTEAD OF HAVING THE STAIRS GO [OVERLAPPING]
>> REDUCE THEM AND THAT WAY, GET RID OF MAYBE TWO SETS OF [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT COULD BE IN THE MIDDLE WITH LANDSCAPING AND STUFF ON THE SIDE, SO.
>> JUST LIKE YOU HAVE IT ON THE OTHER SIDE.
>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT. THEN [OVERLAPPING]
>> THAT WILL REDUCE THE WHOLE MASS OF THE PLACE AS WELL.
THIS IS JUST GOING TO ALSO BE A MASSIVE PEAK [INAUDIBLE].
WE'RE JUST GATHERING UP SUN ALL DAY AND IT'S JUST A [OVERLAPPING]
>> THAT ANSWERS THOSE QUESTIONS.
WHERE ARE WE ON THE SIDE WALLS OF THE FOUNDATION? WE TALKED ABOUT A LATTICE STAMPED CONCRETE OR A LATTICE POURED CONCRETE INSTEAD OF THE WOOD.
BUT WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE WOOD.
>> LATTICE IS NOT THE WORD, I THINK I REMEMBER.
WHAT WAS THAT TAMMY THAT YOU HAD BROUGHT UP THAT IT PERHAPS WOULD TIE INTO SOMEBODY [OVERLAPPING]
>> I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AT THE TIME IN THE CABLING.
I THOUGHT HE WAS CHANGING THE RAIL AND DETAIL TO MORE OF A CROSS.
THAT WOULD TIE IN WITH THE SUN SHELTERS THAT ARE OUT THERE BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE BIG STEEL CABLES THAT ARE TIED DOWN INTO THE CONCRETE [OVERLAPPING]
>> I THINK HAVING CONCRETE ON THE VERTICAL IS NICE.
>> THE VERTICAL, DON'T FORGET MUCH SMALLER NOW IF WE BRING THE HEIGHT BACK IN.
>> I THINK BOARD FORMED CONCRETE.
>> IT'S SO COOL, AND IT'S GOING TO BE WAY AHEAD OF WHAT FERNANDINA IS USED TO, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA.
>> WELL, THERE YOU GO. [LAUGHTER]
>> BETTER THAN JUST SMOOTH OR TRAVELED OR STUCK OUT OR PARALLEL [OVERLAPPING]
[00:45:06]
>> [INAUDIBLE] UP TO THERE GET RID OF IT.
>> ONLY IN THE SOUTH SIDE, SORRY.
>> MS. LISA WE REALLY APPRECIATE [OVERLAPPING]
>> ONE MORE THING WE TALKED ABOUT THE SURFACE UNDERNEATH THE PAVILION, WHAT TO DO ON THAT FLOOR.
YOU SHOULD HIT ON THAT MAYBE SOME [OVERLAPPING]
>> WHAT I HEARD WAS EITHER PAVERS OR THE SCORED CONCRETE.
>> SOME SCORING DETAIL ON IT SOMEHOW.
>> THAT IT'S NOT, I ASSUME NOT SLIPPERY.
>> THIS IS GOING A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, BUT WOULD WE WANT THAT A TINTED CONCRETE, SO IT'S NOT A BIG, BRIGHT WHITE REFLECTION.
>> TINTED. BECAUSE OTHERWISE, IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE THIS COLOR WHEN IT GOES DOWN AND THAT'D BE SO DIRTY IN NO TIME.
>> FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, THE DETAIL YOU HAVE WITH THE EPA, I THINK IT'S FANTASTIC WE JUST THINKING ABOUT MAINTENANCE AND COST.
>> WHAT ARE YOU RECOMMENDING AS AN ALTERNATIVE?
YEAH. WELL, WE HAVE THE EPA BENCHES THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN, AND I CAN TELL YOU ON WITH THOSE BENCHES, THE MAINTENANCE, I KNOW THAT YOU CAN LET THEM LOOK WEATHERED.
BUT THE FACT IS THAT THEY GET SPOTTED AND THEY DO NEED MAINTENANCE [OVERLAPPING]
>> I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE ITSELF, THE COLUMNS AND IS THAT PRESSURE TREATED, LAMINATED, WOOD, WHAT IS THAT?
>> THE CEILING IS EXPOSED T&G.
[INAUDIBLE] ROOF, SOUTHERN PINE, AND YOU'VE GOT YOUR CONSOLATION BETWEEN [OVERLAPPING]
>> BY REDUCING THE RAILS, YOU'RE BRINGING ATTENTION TO THAT.
>> WHAT ABOUT FASTENERS? WHAT ARE YOUR FASTENERS? DO YOU HAVE TO EXPOSE BOLTS AND-
>> YOU MEAN FOR THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT'LL PROBABLY BE HEAVY STEEL.
>> I'M NOT THE ENGINEER, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
>> FINAL NOTES FOR MS. [INAUDIBLE] AND I DON'T MEAN TO RUSH ANYBODY OUT OF THIS.
IT'S UNUSUAL SITUATION FOR THE BOARD TO BE DESIGNING SOMETHING, BUT WE ARE THE CLIENT IN THIS CASE, SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE WAS ONE OTHER THING MENTIONED AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONSENSUS WAS ABOUT ALL THE SIDES LOOKING THE SAME AS FAR AS THE ARTICULATION.
>> OF THE GABLE? [OVERLAPPING] I HAD TO KNOW THAT THE PREFERENCE WAS THE CURVED GABLE LIKE THE TRAIN ON ALL FOUR SIDES.
>> IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE TWO SIDES OF THE [INAUDIBLE].
>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE'RE NOT TONIGHT APPROVING ANY LOCATIONS OR ANYTHING.
WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DESIGN.
>> LOCATION, I THINK WAS IN PREVIOUS DISCUSSION [OVERLAPPING]
>> I WOULD LIKE TO GET A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH LISA'S NOTES TONIGHT AS IT SENDS THE RIGHT SIGNAL THAT WE ARE MOVING FORWARD.
>> SHOULD WE ALSO HAVE A CONTEXTUAL IN THERE FOR HEIGHTS TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN RELATION TO THE EXISTING AREA?
>> WE DON'T HAVE IT [OVERLAPPING]
>> IT WAS IN THE OVERALL PLAN, BUT I DON'T HAVE IT TONIGHT.
>> WAS THAT SUBMITTED IN [INAUDIBLE] WE LOOKED AT IN JUNE?
>> I THINK IN JUNE WE ONLY LOOKED AT THE VERTICAL ELEMENTS.
I THINK IT WAS QUITE BIT FOR THAT.
>> THIS IS LIKE WHAT NINE FEET? IT'S NOT THAT HIGH.
>> WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT THERE? I'M LOOKING AT THE CLEAR HEIGHT.
THE CLEAR HEIGHT IS ONLY LIKE NINE FEET.
>> IT'S NOT THAT TALL. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AS MASSIVE AS IT APPEARS TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE.
>> THIS WAS COMING IN, I BELIEVE, AROUND 10 FEET.
>> ABOVE THAT FINISHED FLOOR THERE, AND YOUR TWO FEET ADDITIONAL TO THE GRADE?
>> WITHOUT PUSHING ANY [OVERLAPPING]
>> JUST WANT TO BRING IT SO CLOSE IF IT'S APPROPRIATE.
>> MR. SMITH, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAD ENOUGH NOTES HERE TO MOVE FORWARD?
>> IF BOARD MEMBERS WERE TO FEEL INCLINED WANTED TO WRITE NOTES TO THE DIRECTOR, THEY COULD BE SHARED AS WELL AFTER THE FACT.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE I CAN'T SEE COUNCIL, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AS LONG AS THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH THE DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD TONIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY TONIGHT WITH REGARDS TO THIS CASE.
[00:50:07]
DON'T HAVE [INAUDIBLE].>> YOU LISTEN FOR A MOTION OR SOMETHING FROM?
>> CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. ALTHOUGH I GUESS WE COULD CONTINUE.
>> THEN WAIT A MINUTE, DIRECTOR, THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL BEFORE THEY COME IN WITH THE FILE, RIGHT?
>> NO. IT'S NOT REQUIRED AT ALL.
>> JUST CONTINUE. TIM'S GOING TO MAKE A MOTION.
I MOVE TO CONTINUE TO THE NEXT MEETING, AND THIS CASE IS [INAUDIBLE]. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
>> I MOVE TO CONTINUE HDC CASE 2024-0015.
>> THE DATE OF THE NEXT MEETING?
>> OPPOSE. NONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH, LISA, AND MR. SMITH, WE SURE APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE, WHICH LEADS US TO, I CAN'T FIND AN AGENDA. NEW BUSINESS.
>> I JUST NEED TO GET THE CASE. HDC 2024-0018 JENKINS ESTARA,
[5.1 HDC 2024-0018 - CYNTHIA JENKINS, AGENT FOR ROBERTO PESTANA, 20 S. 4TH STREET]
20 SOUTH FOURTH STREET.>> WE'LL CALL YOU, MS. JENKINS WHEN YOUR TIME IS ON.
>> GOOD EVENING. TONIGHT, THE PROPERTY OWNER AT 20 SOUTH FOURTH STREET IS INTERESTED IN CONCEPTUAL LEVEL APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH A NON CONTRIBUTING SECTION OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE RESTAURANT AREA TO CONSTRUCT A ONE-STORY ADDITION IN THAT LOCATION TO ADD A NEW EXTERIOR DOOR AND STAIRS WITH A RAMP, AND THEN TO INCLUDE A SEPARATED REST ROOM.
LET ME MAKE SURE BECAUSE I THINK I HAVE ONE SPACE THAT IT'S CONSENT MAY ACTUALLY BE FINAL APPROVAL.
MY APOLOGIES. THIS IS A REQUEST FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
>> BUT WE DID SEE THIS BEFORE.
>> THE BOARD HAD SEEN PRIOR CASE WHICH HAS SINCE EXPIRED.
THIS IS AN ENTIRELY NEW DESIGN FOR THE STRUCTURE.
BUT SIMILAR IN NATURE, JUST SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
>> STAFF HAS ANALYZED THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST WITH THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AS WELL AS THE APPLICABLE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION.
LOOKED AT IT IN CONTEXT OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AND HAS FOUND THAT THE REQUESTED IMPROVEMENTS DO MEET ALL OF OUR REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF HEIGHT, AND SCALE, MASSING, SETBACKS, AND MATERIALS.
IN TERMS OF NEXT STEPS FOLLOWING THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION TONIGHT, THIS DOES NEED TO GO FORWARD TO TECHNICAL REVIEW.
IT DOES NOT RECEIVE TECHNICAL REVIEW CONSIDERATION AT THIS POINT IN TIME TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH ALL TECHNICAL STANDARDS.
BUT IT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THE BOARD'S REVIEW AT A FINAL LEVEL.
SUFFICIENT DETAILS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED WITH MATERIALS, COLORS, AND TO SUPPORT YOUR DECISION MAKING IN A FINAL REVIEW IF YOU SO CHOOSE TONIGHT.
>> I APOLOGIZE. CONCEPTUAL OR FINAL?
>> FINAL. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CONFUSION ON THAT.
THEY ARE DISCUSSING FINAL APPROVAL.
>> THE FINAL AND THAT'S HOW IT WAS ADVERTISED PUBLICLY, SO WE CAN'T DO THAT.
>> RIGHT. IT WAS A TYPE OF AT THE BEGINNING OF THE STAFF REPORT THAT CAUSED ME SOME CONFUSION HERE.
>> QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR.
I'M NOTING THAT ON THE SITE PLAN, THE NEW PROPOSED BUILDING IS 210 FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
I'M NOT CERTAIN WHAT THE ZONING ON THIS PARTICULAR LOT.
>> DO WE HAVE ANY HISTORICAL RECORD ON THE ADDITION THAT'S COMING OFF?
>> IT'S FINE. WE ASK MS. JENKINS, IF SHE DID.
>> THE STAFF REPORT, I BELIEVE IT IS, REFERENCES EXHIBITS FROM THE FLORIDA MASTER SITE FILE THAT'S IN HERE.
[00:55:03]
>> I APOLOGIZE. WOULD YOU HAVE THOSE DOCUMENTS? I CAN PULL THEM UP FOR REFERENCE.
>> MAYBE YOU WHILE MS. JENKINS IS TAKING QUESTIONS WITH THAT.
>> THEN I HAVE THE FULL PLAN SET HERE FOR YOUR REVIEW TO SCAN. [OVERLAPPING]
>> I DIDN'T CUT YOU OFF THAT. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.
>> I'M CYNTHIA JENKINS, AGENT FOR ROBERT PRAZANO, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, AND THE SELLER OF THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS TO BRIAN JENKINS.
>> YOUR ADDRESS, PLEASE FOR THE RECORD.
>> 2997A FIRST AVENUE, FERNANDINA BEACH.
>> THANK YOU. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO OFFER OR YOU JUST HERE FOR QUESTIONS?
>> I'M HERE FOR QUESTIONS. ONE OF THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY, IT'S BEEN VERY IMPORTANT TO US TO KEEP THE RESTAURANT AS A BUSINESS CONSISTENT, BUT ALSO TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS.
WE'VE DONE A LOT OF INVESTMENT, TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR THE FUNCTIONALITY, THE OPERATIONS OF THE BUSINESS, AND THIS IS A CONTINUUM OF THAT EFFORT, IF YOU WILL.
IT'S VERY CLEAR AS WE'VE BEEN WORKING IN THE PROPERTY IN THE BUSINESS, THAT SOME ADDITIONAL FACILITIES ARE NEEDED, AND OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE SOME IMPROVEMENTS WITH THE NEW ADDITION THAT WILL HIGHLIGHT NOT ONLY THE BEAUTY, BUT THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SALVADOR HOUSE.
IT'S AN AMAZING PROPERTY, BUT INSIDE NOW.
WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.
I SEE THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER HERE BUT [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INTERESTING ADDITIONS TO THIS PROPERTY.
THE ONE THAT YOU SELECTED FOR DEMO SEEMS TO BE THE MOST APPROPRIATE ONE TO ME BECAUSE IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST STUCK ON THERE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHEN THAT WAS BUILT?
>> I'M THINKING ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO, AND WE'VE CONFIRMED THAT IT HAS NO HISTORICAL VALUE, AND IT DOESN'T REALLY ADD TO THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE BUILDING.
I'D HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON THE EXACT.
>> I HAD A HALF OF MINE TO GO DOWN TO THE LIBRARY TO THE MUSEUM TODAY AND I DID WISH I HAD NOW, BUT THEY DO.
>> BUT THAT CERTAIN THING I CAN FIND OUT FOR SURE.
>> I'M NOT OVERLY CONCERNED BY BOARD MEMBERS.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION SO ON ONE OF THE PHOTOS IN THE DEMOLITION DRAWINGS, IT INDICATES THAT YOU HAVE TO BRING A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TO GUARANTEE THE STRUCTURAL, OF THE MAIN PROPERTY.
MY QUESTION IS THAT JUST GENERAL LANGUAGE OR IS THERE REAL CONCERNS THAT BY REMOVING THAT, THERE WILL BE [OVERLAPPING]
>> NO, JUST GENERAL LANGUAGE, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE STABILITY WHEN WE ADD DOORS AND SO WE'LL HAVE A RAMP LEADING OUT SO THAT IT'LL BE SAFE AND BEAUTIFUL WHEN PEOPLE WALK INTO THE SALVADOR HOUSE.
>> IF WE COULD LOOK AT THAT SLIDE 13 OF THE APPLICATION.
>> DIRECTOR, YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THINGS ON ONE SIDE ABOUT THAT.
>> IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE AN ADD ON.
>> IT IS FROM THE ROOF LINES ALONE.
THERE'S ABOUT FIVE DIFFERENT ROOF STRUCTURES.
>> ABSOLUTELY. ON SIDE AND INSIDE, YOU CAN SEE IT'S LIKE LITTLE ADDITIONS.
>> I'LL TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO POINT OUT THAT OUR COLLEAGUE, MS. BURNS, ASKED THAT WHEN YOU REPAIR THE BACK OF THE HOUSE WHERE YOU TEAR THIS ADDITION OFF THAT YOU USE WOOD SIDING TO MATCH THE EXISTING? MOST CONTRACTORS CERTAINLY WOULD DO THAT.
>> JUST TO MAKE THAT NOTE FOR THE RECORD.
BUT TO ME, ONE OF THE COOL THINGS ABOUT THAT AREA BACK THERE IS JUST THE AMBIENCE THAT'S CREATED BY THAT TREE.
THAT IS SO CLOSE TO THE ADDITION.
I DON'T SEE IT NOTED ON THE PLAN.
>> TAMMY KELLY IS CIRCLING IN ON THE SCREEN. IT'S OVER THERE.
>> IT'S OUT OF THE PATH, REALLY.
>> MR. JENKINS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEAK, I NEED YOU TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
>> BRIAN JENKINS, 2997 A FIRST AVENUE, FERNANDINA BEACH.
LET ME GO BACK AND ONE QUESTION.
THIS ADDITION THAT WE'RE TEARING DOWN WAS JUST A PORCH THAT THEN THEY ENCLOSED.
THERE WAS THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT'S 126-YEARS-OLD.
THEN YOU HAD AN ADDITION THAT IS AN L SHAPE THAT YOU CAN SEE.
LATER ON THEY ADDED A PORCH ONTO THAT.
ALL WE'RE DOING IS TAKING OFF THE ENCLOSURE THAT WAS PROBABLY DONE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO, BUT IT WAS BUCK YOU COULD LOOK AT THE FLOOR AND SEE THAT IT'S ROTTING OUT A BIT ALREADY.
[01:00:05]
>> LET ME KNOW IF I NEED TO SWITCH OR ZOOM IN ON ANYTHING.
>> I'M JUST TRYING TO GET MY BEARINGS.
I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> IT SAYS EXISTING TREE TO REMAIN AND PROTECT.
>> YEAH. THAT ONE WAS STATEMENT.
>> BECAUSE I DIDN'T REMEMBER SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT A BIG TREE.
>> THAT'S THE SITE OF THE ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE.
>> QUESTIONS FOR MISS TERMS JENKINS.
>> YEAH. A SECONDARY REASON FOR ME ASKING YOU ABOUT THE SIDE SETBACK THERE IS YOU MAY WANT TO INVESTIGATE BECAUSE I SEE THERE'S WINDOWS ON THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
IF YOU JUST SCOOCH IT LIKE TWO INCHES OVER TO MAKE IT THREE FOOT ONE, I BELIEVE, AND YOU'LL HAVE TO CHECK ON THIS.
BUT THERE MAY BE A FIRE CODE REGULATION THAT IF YOU'RE LESS THAN THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, EVERYTHING THERE HAS TO BE FIRE RATED.
IF YOU PUSH IT JUST A LITTLE BIT PAST, THOSE COULD BE NORMAL WINDOWS, AND THEY'LL HAVE TO BE FIRE RATED WINDOWS THERE.
IT MAY MAKE YOUR LIFE A LITTLE EASIER OVER THERE AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN, IF IT HAD TO COME IN BECAUSE WINDOWS CHANGED.
>> WE CAN DEFINITELY CHECK ON THAT.
IT COULD BE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT OUR DESIGN FIRM, OUR ARCHITECTS TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, BUT IT CERTAINLY TRUST BUT VERIFIED.
>> WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE PLY GEM AND I DON'T KNOW THAT PLY GEM MAKES A FIRE.
>> LEARNING SOMETHING IN THIS PROCESS CLEAR.
>> OTHER QUESTIONS FROM MS. ADMINISTRATOR.
>> I SAW SOMETHING IN HERE ABOUT THE DOORS BEING METAL AND I KNEW THERE IS SOMETHING WE'VE RELIED ON OUR DESIGN FIRM ON SUBSTRATES OF VARIOUS NATURES, BUT FROM THE HARDY PLANK, THE ROOFING, WHATNOT.
WE'RE NOT MARRIED TO ANY PARTICULAR SUBSTRATE WHEN IT COMES TO DOORS.
THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GO BACK AND TALK TO.
>> WHAT'S IN THE APPLICATION? METAL?
>> YEAH. THAT'S A METAL, BUT I GUESS THE EMAIL THAT CAME FROM.
>> VERONICA WAS CONCERNED ABOUT IF SHE WOULD PREFER A MORE HISTORICAL PROFILE.
>> SOMETIMES METAL, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE METAL, IF IT'S PAINTED AT A DIFFERENT COLOR.
THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT SUBSTRATES, SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT TO MAKE SURE IT'S A SATISFACTORY APPEARANCE.
>> SENSING THERE'S NOT AS MUCH CONCERN ABOUT THESE METAL DRAWERS BECAUSE OF THEIR LOCATION BUT THEY'RE USED FOR THAT THING.
WHEN WE DO THE HISTORIC RENOVATIONS, WE'RE OFTEN CONCERNED THAT CONDITIONS DON'T LOOK LIKE THIS IS DETACHED.
YOU DON'T WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE THE ORIGINAL SALVADOR HOUSE.
>> WOODEN DOORS, DO NOT HOLD UP COMMERCIAL AND THEY DON'T HOLD UP COMMERCIAL SCREWS GET RIPPED OUT.
>> YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. YOU GOT SUCKED INTO THE WATERFRONT CONVERSATION.
[LAUGHTER] IT'S GREAT. IT EVERY WEEK.
I DON'T HAVE THAT MANY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU DON'T HAVE TOO MANY [INAUDIBLE]
IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY WITH REGARDS TO THIS CASE? I DON'T SEE ANYBODY. GO AHEAD AND SAY THAT.
>> BOARD MEMBERS, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS THAT WE NEED TO PUT INTO THE RECORD?
>> I THINK SAL WOULD HAVE SAID BACK IN THE DAY, AS YOU'RE DOING THE DEMO, BE SENSITIVE TO WHAT YOU MIGHT FIND.
OPEN UP A WALL AND SUDDENLY, THAT'S MAYBE I NEED TO CALL THE MUSEUM.
WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION?
>> I DO IT. I MOVED TO APPROVE ACC CASE NUMBER 2024-0018 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE ACC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND THE CONCLUSIONS OF LAW, PART OF THE RECORD, THAT ACC CASE 2024-18 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
>> WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IF THE BUILDING GETS MOVED JUST A COUPLE OF INCHES THERE, DIRECTOR, THAT THIS BOARD IS OKAY WITH THAT.
CONSISTENT WITH THAT WINDOW DISCUSSION.
WE DON'T WANT THEM COMING BACK.
WE WANT TO MOVE THE BUILDING IF THAT WILL SAVE THEM A LOT OF PAIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
[01:05:06]
INTO A BOARD DISCUSSION ON THE PRESENTATION BY MARQUIS LATIMER AND HALBACK TO THE DOWNTOWN GUIDELINES.I BELIEVE YOU ALL RECEIVED THAT IN THE PACKET, 165 PAGES.
>> ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE PAGES. MORGAN READ THEM ALL.
I AM SO EXCITED TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT THIS TO YOU.
I HOPE THAT YOU ALL SHARE IN THAT LEVEL OF EXCITEMENT IN THE CHANGES THAT YOU'VE SEEN WITH OUR DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES.
IT IS A TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENT OVER WHAT WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING WITHIN TO PROVIDE A LOT MORE GUIDANCE TO ALL OF OUR USERS, WHETHER THAT IS THE PROPERTY OWNER, PERHAPS A REAL ESTATE AGENT LOOKING TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
MYSELF AS STAFF, CERTAINLY, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE BOARD IS LOOKING FOR, BUT ALSO FOR YOU, AS YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE DESIGN GUIDELINES ALONGSIDE OUR SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS IN REVIEWING INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS, WHETHER THAT'S COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL, NEW ADDITIONS, AND INFILL THAT WE LOOK AT ON A ROUTINE BASIS, LOOKING AT OUR OUTBUILDINGS, I KNOW IS A TYPICAL THING THAT WE SEE HERE.
I KNOW THAT YOU'VE HAD JUST A SHORT WINDOW OF TIME TO REALLY LOOK AT ALL OF THE CHANGES FOLLOWING THAT FIRST DRAFT THAT YOU'VE SEEN ABOUT A MONTH AGO, OR TWO MONTHS AGO NOW.
I THINK THAT WE'VE GONE A LONG WAY IN MAKING SOME REALLY BIG UPDATES TO THAT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT YOU'VE ALL GIVEN TO US SO THOUGHTFULLY AND SPECIFICALLY SO THAT WE CAN REALLY HAVE A FINISHED PRODUCT THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN ALL BE REALLY PROUD OF.
JUST TO SET THIS UP A LITTLE BIT BEFORE WE HAVE OUR DESIGN TEAM PROVIDE US WITH A PRESENTATION AND OVERVIEW OF THOSE GUIDELINES.
WE ARE WORKING WITH DEPARTMENT OF STATE HISTORIC BRANCH HERE THAT HAS FUNDED THE UPDATE OF THESE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
WE DO HAVE AN EXTENDED TIME FRAME FOR COMPLETION OF THAT, IT ENDS SEPTEMBER 1.
WE'RE IN THAT LAST TWO WEEK WINDOW OR SO AT THIS POINT TO PROVIDE SOME FINAL FEEDBACK AND GET THAT WRAPPED UP SO THAT WE CAN FURNISH THAT TO THE STATE AND CLOSE OUT THAT GRANT.
WE'D LOVE TO GET AS MUCH FEEDBACK FROM YOU TODAY AS POSSIBLE TOMORROW AS WELL.
WE REALLY, AT THE BEGINNING OF NEXT WEEK, HAVE TO WRAP THIS UP AND THEN GET THAT SENT OFF FOR THEIR REVIEW AND HOPEFULLY THEIR SIGN OFF ON THAT.
I WANT TO KEEP IN MIND I SAY THAT BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO GET THAT FEEDBACK IN TODAY, BUT I DON'T WANT TO PUT UNDUE PRESSURE ON YOU.
IF SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED IN THE FUTURE WITHIN THAT DOCUMENT, WE HAVE THE LATITUDE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES.
WE FIND THAT WE'RE UPDATING A PARTICULAR AREA AND IT DOESN'T READ THE CORRECT WAY, WE CAN MAKE THOSE CHANGES.
IDEALLY, I WOULD LIKE FOR THIS ULTIMATELY TO BE APPROVED BY RESOLUTION SO THAT IT IS FORMALIZED IN OUR DOCUMENTATION AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST WITH OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES THROUGH THE CITY COMMISSION ONCE WE'RE READY TO DO THAT.
THAT'S NOT A STEP THAT'S NECESSARY BEFORE WE SEND THAT TO THE STATE.
I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR THAT WE WANT ALL THE FEEDBACK WE GET RIGHT NOW TO MAKE THIS A SOLID DOCUMENT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT IT TO BE, BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, WE CAN UPDATE IT LATER.
ONE OTHER BIG POINT WAS THAT YOUR REVIEW ON THE DRAFT AND ALL THE INPUT THAT HAS BEEN UPDATED INTO THIS UPDATED DRAFT HAS BEEN INCORPORATED.
WE'VE ALSO HAD AN INITIAL REVIEW WITH THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE WHO HAVE COMPLETED THAT AND PROVIDED THEIR FEEDBACK ON HOW TO MAKE UPDATES.
WE HAVE HAD THAT INITIAL REVIEW TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT OFF BASE, THAT WE'RE DOING THINGS THE WAY THEY WOULD LIKE FOR US TO PROCEED.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT, VERY CONFIDENT AND BRING THIS BACK TO YOU AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
>> THIS VERSION REFLECTS ANY OF THOSE?
>> WERE THEY GENERALLY COMFORTABLE?
>> WITH THAT, I WILL KICK THIS OFF TO JEREMY, WHO IS HERE VIA ZOOM TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE AND PRESENTATION OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES.
JEREMY, I WASN'T SURE IF YOU WANTED ME TO PULL UP THAT PRESENTATION OR IF YOU WANTED TO SHARE SCREEN TO COORDINATE THE PRESENTATION YOURSELF.
[01:10:01]
>> NOT SURE WE PICKED YOU UP THERE.
>> HOLD ON. LET ME GET A LITTLE BIT CLOSER THEN. I APOLOGIZE.
DID YOU WANT TO PRESENT FROM YOUR SCREEN THROUGH A SHARED SCREEN, OR DO YOU WANT ME TO USE THE PRESENTATION FILE YOU SENT? EXCELLENT.
>> IF YOU DON'T MIND, I WOULD LOVE THAT.
I JUST NEED TO YOU TO ENABLE SCREEN SHARE AND [INAUDIBLE]
>> THANK YOU. THE MAGICAL QUESTION ON ZOOM, LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU CAN SEE OUR SCREEN.
>> GOOD EVENING, HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL.
I'M JEREMY MARQUIS WITH MARQUIS LATIMER AND HALBACK.
WE HAVE A THIRD MEMBER OF OUR TEAM THAT I HOPE THE COUNCIL CAN APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT HE IS NOT HERE BECAUSE HE'S ON FIRM HERE IN SAINT AUGUSTINE AND THEY NEEDED HIM TO BE THERE FOR A FORUM.
OUR APOLOGY THAT PAUL WASN'T ABLE TO JOIN IN.
HE'S WITH HISTORIC PROPERTY ASSOCIATES INCORPORATED..
SOME OF YOU-ALL KNOW US FROM THE AREA, THE NEIGHBORS OF SOUTH AS WE LIKE TO SAY.
WE WORK WITH HISTORIC GUIDELINES, DAY-IN DAY-OUT, COMMUNITIES ACROSS OUR STATE, CERTAINLY DOING A LOT IN SAINT AUGUSTINE.
WE WERE EXCITED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH YOU-ALL AND YOUR GUIDELINES.
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE HOPE ARE REALLY HELPFUL IN TERMS OF THE UPDATE ARE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A REAL DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE OF BEING IN YOUR SHOES.
I'VE SAT ON OUR LET'S JUST SAY SAT ON THE HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD HERE IN SAINT AUGUSTINE.
PAUL, AS YOU MENTIONED, IS CURRENTLY ON OUR FRONT HALBACK [LAUGHTER].
OUR TEAM HAS SAT ON ALL, IN FACT, THREE OF OUR DESIGN TEAM HAVE BEEN CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD.
I THINK ALL THAT TO SAY; WE WORK WITH CLIENTS EVERY DAY.
WE UNDERSTAND THE BOARD DESIGN SO THAT REAL FOCUS FOR US IS HOW CAN WE MAKE THE DOCUMENT AS USER-FRIENDLY AS CAN BE.
THERE ARE REALLY FOUR MAIN OBJECTIVES.
IF THE COUNSEL IS OPEN TO IT, I WILL JUST BRIEFLY GO THROUGH SOME HIGH POINTS AND THEN WE CAN GO PAGE-BY-PAGE, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, THROUGH THE DOCUMENT.
WE HAVE MADE SOME MINOR EDITS FROM THE ONE THAT YOU ALL WOULD HAVE RECEIVED, WHICH I'M HAPPY TO POINT OUT.
BUT THERE WERE REALLY FOUR MAIN OBJECTIVES AS WE WENT THROUGH THIS.
THE FIRST THING THAT ALL OUR COASTAL COMMUNITIES ARE HAVING TO DEAL WITH RESILIENCY.
THAT'S CERTAINLY BEEN SOMETHING THAT BARRINGTON BEACH HAS BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT, AND WATERFRONT PARK, AMONG OTHER PLACES.
WE HAVE A SECTION THAT WE HAVE BUILT THROUGHOUT THE GUIDELINES, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 'THINK RESILIENCE', THAT THERE'S A NUMBER OF AREAS WHERE WE CAN STILL TAKE GOOD CARE OF OUR HISTORIC STRUCTURES, BUT STILL BE MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE STORM SURGE THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT AS WE GO THROUGH.
DEMOLITION CRITERIA AND PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PAUL WEAVER IN PARTICULAR TO THE DEEP DIVE ON AND WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BRING IN A MATRIX THAT WILL HELP THE COUNCIL, THE BOARD TO REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN QUANTIFY DEMOLITION APPLICATIONS THAT COME UP IN FRONT OF YOU ALL ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER CERTAINLY MAKING A GRAPHIC AS WE CAN.
GLENN IN PARTICULAR HAS BEEN WORKING HAND IN OUR TEAM TO DEVELOP THAT.
THEN UNIVERSAL DESIGN CRITERIA, AND CERTAINLY THAT MEANS ADA ACCESSIBILITY IN TERMS OF THE PROPERTY.
BUT ALSO I WOULD SUBMIT THAT PART OF THIS, THE UNIVERSAL DESIGN CRITERIA IN THAT DOCUMENT.
ALSO BEING EASIER AND CLEAR TO INTERPRET AND TO READ.
SOMETHING THAT WE'VE REALLY HAD A LOT OF FUN WORKING THROUGH.
[01:15:01]
YOU'LL NOTICE ON THIS FIRST PAGE WHERE THE 2013 GUIDELINES; WHICH ARE THERE ON THE LEFT.I USED AN EXAMPLE, THIS IS THE PAGE ON THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT 8.5 BY 11 PORTRAIT FORMAT.
WE WERE THANKFUL TO TURN THE PAGE UNINTENDED, THIS DOCUMENT, AND MOVE INTO A CLEAR, I THINK MORE INTENTIONAL FORMATTING SO THAT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT SIGNS, YOU HAVE VERY CLEAR GUIDANCE AS TO WHAT ARE THE GUIDELINES.
EXAMPLE PICTURES OF COURSE FROM FERNANDINA, AND THEN THE LINE DRAWING DIAGRAM ON RIGHT-HAND SIDE.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS NOW HAPPENING ON EVERY SINGLE PAGE, AND WE WERE HAPPY TO REALLY BRING THE BEST OF YOUR TEXT AND IMAGES FROM THE PREVIOUS GUIDELINES FROM A DECADE AGO, AND THEN REALLY UPDATE THAT, REFRESH THAT, BRING IN NEW PHOTOS, BRING IN NEW GRAPHICS, AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEAR AS POSSIBLE.
I JUST WANTED TO GO THROUGH A FEW HIGHLIGHTS IF I COULD, AND THEN CERTAINLY OPEN UP ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR EDITS THAT Y'ALL WOULD LIKE US TO LOOK AT.
BUT THE ORGANIZATION WAS SOMETHING THAT WE SPENT TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME ON.
ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE EQUIPPING THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH, MORE SO, IS THAT AS YOU ALL ARE MAKING DECISIONS IN YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL SETTING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO REFERENCE THE STATE MODEL GUIDELINES AND THEN EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS FORMATTING IS REFLECTING SOME OF THOSE, PARTICULARLY FROM THE STATE MODEL GUIDELINES.
THE FIRST SECTION IS, AS GETTING STARTED, I'LL WALK THROUGH THAT MOMENTARILY.
BUT THEN AS YOUR CURRENT GUIDELINES HAVE, IT GOES INTO COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.
BUT WHAT WE CHANGED WAS THAT WE MADE IT COMMERCIAL REHABILITATION, RESIDENTIAL REHABILITATION.
THINGS RANGING FROM ADDITIONS, ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS, THE SIGNAGE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT THEN WE TOOK THE SECTIONS ABOUT NEW CONSTRUCTION.
THIS IS REFLECTIVE OF HOW THE STATE LAW GUIDELINES ARE ALL SET UP.
WE PULLED THOSE ITEMS OUT TO FALL.
IT'S INTRODUCTION, REHABILITATION, NEW CONSTRUCTION, AND THEN WE CLOSE OUT WITH THE APPENDIX WITH MORE INFORMATION.
THIS IS FROM THE FIRST SECTION, INTRODUCTION, IF YOU WILL.
ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE HEARD BACK THROUGH KELLY FROM ONE OF YOU.
BY THE WAY, YOUR STAFF TEAM THERE AT THE CITY HAS BEEN FANTASTIC IN TERMS OF COMMUNICATING WITH US AND GOING GIVING YOUR FEEDBACK BACK TO US AND WE REALLY VALUE THAT.
THANK YOU TO MS. GIBSON, TO MISS JACOBSON AND HER TEAM.
BUT WE DEVELOPED WHAT WE CALL ONE-PAGE GUIDE.
ALL OF US, I'M SURE, HAVE MET WITH PROPERTY OWNERS, HOMEOWNERS, CLIENTS, AND LIKE, OH MY GOSH, WHERE DO WE GET STARTED? THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A ONE PAGE-GUIDE THAT DOES TWO THINGS.
IT WALKS YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS.
WE BROUGHT IN THE SAME FLOW CHART THAT THE CITY ALREADY HAD.
BUT THEN WE ALSO INTRODUCED HOW THIS DOCUMENT IS SET UP.
WE PROVIDED AN EXAMPLE PAGE THAT GOES THROUGH HOW IT'S FORMATTED.
ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE WERE ALSO MINDFUL OF IS THAT THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO USE THE DOCUMENT.
THEY WANT TO USE A PRINTED OUT FRONT, BACK, LEFT, RIGHT, 17-FOOT FLIP.
I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE WANT TO READ THIS DIGITALLY.
WE'RE VERY MINDFUL AS YOU'RE FLIPPING THROUGH.
I'M GOING TO ADVANCE A COUPLE.
BUT YOU'LL NOTICE THAT WHETHER OR NOT THE PAGE NUMBER MIGHT BE OF THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT, THAT THE TITLES AND THE FORMATTING STAYS THE SAME BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE STROLLING THROUGH A PDF, IT'S FLIPPING BACK FORTH, WHICH FRANKLY A LITTLE DISTRACTING.
THOSE ARE SOME OF THOSE ITEMS THAT WE REALLY STUDIED AND PAID ATTENTION TO.
BUT EACH PAGE, YOU HAVE A PROJECT TYPE ENTITLED AT THE TOP LEFT.
YOU HAVE AN INTRODUCTION AND THE ACTUAL REQUIREMENTS, THE WRITTEN REQUIREMENT.
THEN THE EDITORIAL COMMENTARY, IF YOU WILL,
[01:20:03]
WE PULL INTO A SECONDARY SUBSERVIENT POSITION, IF YOU WILL.IN THE TOP RIGHT, FOR EACH OF THESE PAGES, WE HAVE APPLICABLE DIAGRAM SHOWN.
THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS WHERE WE HAVE ADDITIONAL PHOTOGRAPHIC EXAMPLES OR WE HAVE TO THINK RESILIENCY.
THAT'S WHERE WE PUT THAT PORTION ABOUT WAYS THAT WE CONTINUE TO HELP FERNANDINA THROUGH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, EVEN MORE RESILIENT HURRICANE-READY.
THEN ON EVERY SINGLE PAGE, WE PUT IN THE APPLICABLE SECRETARY'S INTERIOR STANDARDS.
THAT ALLOWS APPLICANTS, STAFF, THE BOARD TO ALL MAKE GOOD DECISIONS THAT ARE REFLECTIVE OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
THEN WE GO THROUGH AND TALK ABOUT REALLY WHAT WE SEE IS YOUR FOUR STEPS TO GETTING STARTED.
WE HAVE THAT SET UP WHERE YOU FIRST GO WITH THE ZONING SETTING AND YOU'RE GOING TO EVALUATE THE CONDITION, YOU'RE GOING TO GET INTO WHAT THE CHARACTER OF THE STRUCTURE IS, AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO DEFINE YOUR WORK, WHAT ARE YOU ACTUALLY DOING TO MODIFY, REHABILITATE, ADD ONTO EVEN NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THE BUILDING.
WE INCLUDED THE CHECKLIST THAT IS FROM THE FORM.
IT IS THE SHORT VERSION, IF YOU WILL, OF THE CHECKLIST.
WE ALSO REFERENCED THE APPLICATION LOCATION.
ONE OF THE PIECES THAT WE WERE A LITTLE HESITANT, ON BE CANDID WITH Y'ALL, IS WHEN YOU START PUTTING IN THE CHECKLIST, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE CHECKLIST IS UPDATED AND IT'S NOT UPDATED IN THIS BOOKLET, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE AREN'T CREATING A CONFLICT THERE OF ONE LOOKING LIKE IT'S OUT OF SYNC WITH THE OTHER.
WE DID MENTION WHEREVER WE HAVE CHECKLIST OR WE HAD, FOR INSTANCE, THE LIST OF APPROVED WINDOW VENDORS, THAT YOU STILL NEED TO CONFIRM WITH THE CITY'S WEBSITE AND CITY STAFF THAT THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES.
BUT THE IDEA WITH THIS DOCUMENT, IT IS A LIVING DOCUMENT, SO IF THE CHECKLIST CHANGES, IF IT IS IN HER STAFF, SHE'LL HAVE THIS DOCUMENT.
SHE CAN SWAP IT OUT, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY HERE TO HELP YOU WITH AS WELL.
AGAIN, STEP 1, THIS IS REALLY SETTING UP THE SET.
WHAT IS THE ZONING? WHAT IS THE CONTEXT THAT YOU'RE WORKING IN? WE REALLY WANT TO POINT OUT IN TWO DIRECTIONS.
THE CITY THROUGH THE COUNTY GIS DEPARTMENT HAS DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB, AS YOU ALL KNOW, TRACKING AND PUTTING INTO AN ACCESSIBLE GIS MAP ALL THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
YOU CAN CLICK ON AND GET A NUMBER OF INFORMATION PIECES.
WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS A CLEAR TOOL THAT WE WERE GUIDING APPLICANTS TO.
BUT THEN ALSO THINGS THAT I KNOW THAT I ENJOY SEEING ON THE BOARD, THAT LETS LIKE TO SEE ON THE BOARD AND PRESUME YOU ALL LIKE TO SEE IT FROM HTC, YOU WANT TO SEE THOSE HISTORIC MAPS, HISTORIC IMAGES.
WE HAVE THE SANBORN MAP EXAMPLE WITH THE LINK.
WE HAVE THE HISTORIC PHOTOS EXAMPLE, WITH THE LINK OF FLORIDA MEMORY.
WE REFERENCE GOING BACK TO THIS WEBSITE, GET THE FLORIDA MASTER'S DIAGRAM, ALL THAT INFORMATION ALREADY PROVIDED ON GIS.
THEN EVEN POINTING OVER TO THE AMELIA HIGHLANDS, THE MUSEUM OF HISTORY, JUST MAKING SURE THAT THOSE ARE CLEAR AND DEMYSTIFIED, IF YOU WILL, FOR APPLICANTS.
THEN STEP 2, THE POOR REVIEWING THE CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE. HERE'S A GOOD EXAMPLE.
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOUNDATION, ALL OF US MIGHT KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT WE USE THE OLD SCHOOL HOUSE, IN AS AN EXAMPLE. HERE'S FOUNDATION.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A EXTERIOR FABRIC.
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
OF COURSE, ROOF IS A LITTLE BIT CLEAR.
BUT WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WERE EASY AND ACCESSIBLE AS WE'RE USING OUR JARGON THAT ALL OF THOSE MIGHT USE, THAT WE WERE MAKING THAT CLEAR FOR APPLICANTS.
THEN OF COURSE, YOU GO IN, YOU ANALYZE THE CHARACTER, THE SHAPE, THE MAP, SCALE OF STRUCTURE, AND THEN YOU GO INTO THE ANALYSIS, DEVELOPING THE WORK PLAN OF WHAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN.
WE USED A FEW EXAMPLES AND WE WERE ABLE TO PUT IN BOTH SOME THAT PAUL HAD USED AND MIRANDA ARCHITECTS HAD ALLOWED US SOME OF THEIR IMAGES AS WELL.
WE ALSO INCORPORATED RIGHT IN YOUR DOCUMENTS,
[01:25:03]
THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.WHAT WE DID WAS WE EXTRAPOLATED FIVE STEPS OF IDENTIFYING WHAT CHANGES OR THE CHARACTER GIVING FEATURES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PROTECTING AND MAINTAINING REPAIR RATHER THAN REPLACE, RECONSTRUCT, AND THEN RESPECTING THE ORIGINAL DESIGN.
YOU BROUGHT THAT OUT AS THE OVERARCHING ELEMENT.
BUT THEN THOSE ARE THE 10 SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS THAT ARE REFERENCED THAT COPYRIGHT EVERY SINGLE PAGE.
OF COURSE, WE'RE REFERENCING ONES THAT ARE MOST APPLICABLE TO THAT LOCATION.
AS AN EXAMPLE, ENTRANCES AND DOORS.
INTRODUCTION, THE WRITTEN GUIDELINES, FOR EXAMPLE, GUIDES YOUR EYES, SO TRY TO REALLY PULL UP THOSE KEY PIECES FOR APPLICANTS TO UNDERSTAND.
THEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, FOR INSTANCE, REUSING HISTORIC CARDBOARD BLOCKS.
YOU'LL NOTICE THAT WE HAVE A LITTLE EYE THAT BRINGS YOU OVER TO A PICTURE SHOWING THAT.
LES ALSO DID A NUMBER OF REALLY NICE SKETCHES THROUGHOUT THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO USE THE BEST OF WHAT WAS ALREADY IN THE GUIDELINES AND PAIR THAT UP WITH NEW DRAWING.
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF THE APPLICABLE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS.
THAT NUMBER 2, 3, 6, AND NOT AS AN EXAMPLE ON THIS ENTRANCES-ENDORSED SO THAT IT HELPS ALL APPLICANT THROUGH THE BOARD TO HAVE GOOD DECISIONS, AND YOU ALL HAVE VERY DEFENSIBLE DECISIONS.
THEN WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT, ON THIS ONE, RESILIENCY, THE ABILITY TO PUT IN DOOR DAMS AND TO BUILD THAT INFRASTRUCTURE AND TO BE THOUGHTFUL AS YOU'RE PUTTING IN IMPROVEMENTS, ETC, TO BE GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
>> WE WENT INTO SITE FEATURES AS WELL, STREETSCAPE ELEMENTS IN PARTICULAR.
WE ALSO TRIED TO BRING IN A FOOTBALL CODES AND ORDINANCES OF PRIORITY FRANKLY OF THE CITY.
YOU'LL SEE HOW WE REFERENCE PROTECTION THAT THE SORT STREETSCAPE ELEMENTS BRING IN THAT RECENT ORDINANCE INTO THE DOCUMENT.
THE IDEA IS THAT THIS IS HOPEFULLY A ONE STOP OF THE DOCUMENT TO HELP GUIDE YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS AS POSSIBLE.
WE ALSO WENT IN AND WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN YOU'RE DOING ADDITIONS, HOW WE CAN MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS SMALLER TO MAKE THE HAPPEN AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, TO MAKE THAT TRANSITION BETWEEN TWO AND LET'S HELP CREATE REALLY NICE IMAGES TO SHOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE BUT THERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF OUR RESIDENTIAL SECTION OF THE GUIDELINES.
THEN GOING BACK TO NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT NOW WE HAVE PURPLE AS THE SECTION, PURPLE NOTED UP HERE WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT IT'S STILL COMMERCIAL, SO WE KEPT THE RED.
THAT'S HOW WE'RE TRYING TO COLOR TO HELP GUIDE THE USE OF THIS DOCUMENT.
WE PUT IN A NUMBER OF EXAMPLES OF WHERE WE HAVE THE RENTS THAT ARE INCORPORATED INTO THE STRUCTURE ITSELF OR THAT ARE YET HIDDEN AT A LITTLE BIT MORE, TOWARDS IT'S A PRIMARY ENTRANCE, THAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT YOU MAY SEE FROM THE STREET.
THAT SUPPORTS BALANCE WE HAVE, [NOISE] WITH THE STRUCTURES IS THAT YOUR AD 8 ACCESS SHOULD BE TO A PRIMARY ENTRANCE, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO START DAMAGING A HISTORIC STRUCTURE AND MEANTIME SO WE WE TRIED TO PUT MORE FOR GUIDANCE ON THAT.
DEMOLITION IS WHAT WE WILL END THIS INITIAL INTRODUCTORY CONVERSATION.
THIS IS A MATRIX THAT PAUL WEAKER HAS USED ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS THAT THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE ACTUALLY HAS DEVELOPED, AND ADAPTED SPECIFICALLY FOR THE CITY OF HERM DANA BEACH.
BUT THE REASON THAT WE LOOKED AT OTHER COMMUNITIES AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS THAT IT DOES HAVE THE ABILITY OF USING LANGUAGE THAT HAD BEEN TESTED AND AGAIN, DEFENSIBLE.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE AREAS STRENGTHS THAT THE JACKSONVILLE HAS AS A DEMOLITION MATRIX.
NOW THERE IS A VERY CLEAR MATRIX THAT YOU CAN GO THROUGH AND ESSENTIALLY RAG FROM 1-5,
[01:30:10]
AND IT HAVE A RATIONALE FOR WOULD YOU APPROVE A DEMOLITION OR WOULD YOU RECOMMEND DENY THAT DEMOLITION? AGAIN, THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILED LOT OF MINES THAT WE HAD CHANGED, MODIFIED, HOPEFULLY APPROVED WITH THE DOCUMENT.I'M HAPPY TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT WITH YOU ALL BUT JUST WANTED TO HIT THE HIGH POINTS.
KELLY, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED, OR IS THERE ANYTHING I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE WE COME BACK TO THE BOARD?
>> BOARD MEMBERS. QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS.
I'M GOING TO GO TO JIM BECAUSE I KNOW HE'S GOT NOTES OR SAT. IS THAT FAIR?
>> QUITE SPEAK UP. REMEMBER YOU'RE USING A MICROPHONE.
>> I QUITE A FEW NOTES, BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THE THINGS THAT DID I LIKE.
I LIKE THE WAY THAT YOU'VE STARTED TO ORGANIZE THE DOCUMENT AS A WHOLE.
USING COLOR TO HELP PEOPLE NAVIGATE THROUGH IT.
THE CHANGE TO THE 11 BY 17 HAS REALLY HELPED ORGANIZE THE INFORMATION AS IT'S PRESENTED.
SOME BASIC THINGS THAT I'M STILL PICKING UP ON ARE LIKE, INITIALLY, THE QUALITY OF THE IMAGES USED IN THE DOCUMENT.
LET ME START WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHS USED.
IF YOU COULD SCROLL TO PAGE ROMAN NUMERAL 5, I JUST WANT TO POINT TO ON IT.
THE IMAGE THAT'S IN THE MIDDLE LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A NUMBER. THERE YOU GO.
FROM HERE, I CAN'T REALLY EVEN TELL WHAT I'M LOOKING AT.
IT'S JUST NOT A GOOD PHOTOGRAPH.
FOR OUR DOCUMENT, WE HAVE SO MANY GREAT EXAMPLES OF WONDERFUL BUILDINGS.
LET'S GET AN EQUALLY GREAT PHOTOGRAPH IN OUR BOOK.
THAT'S A GENERAL COMMENT THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT.
THERE'S QUITE A FEW IMAGES THAT I FEEL LIKE ARE LACKING AND COULD CERTAINLY BE IMPROVED.
LOOKING AT, FOR EXAMPLE, PAGE 21, THERE'S AN IMAGE OF THE FOUNTAIN IN FRONT OF THE COURT HOUSE.
THEN ONCE AGAIN, THAT'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WE CAN DO BETTER WITH THE IMAGE.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S RECOGNIZABLE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE VISITED THE CITY OR LIVE IN THE CITY.
IF WE CAN'T REALLY SEE WHAT THE BOB BASE BOWL IS DOING, IT'S A PRETTY ORNATE AND ARTICULATE THING.
THE LIGHTING OF IT ISN'T EXACTLY GREAT.
WE'RE MISSING OUT ON A REALLY NICE IMAGE.
>> PAGE 55, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I THINK THIS IS AN EXAMPLE AND THIS IS IN THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION, AND YOU SPOKE VERY WELL, I THINK, ABOUT GIVING US SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP US MAKE COMMENTS AND IT BE DEFENSIBLE.
BUT FOR EXAMPLE, ALL THOSE ELEMENTS ON THE GUIDELINES OVER THAT ARE 1-7 ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, THERE'S NO CRUNCH IN THERE, THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE CAN HANG OUR HAT ON.
I KNOW THAT WE HAVE SPECIFIC GUIDELINES ON HOW TO GENERATE WHAT YOUR FRONT YARD SETBACK CAN BE WHEN YOU TAKE AN AVERAGE OF ALL THE HOMES ON YOUR BLOCK.
CONTEXT SENSITIVE FRONT YARD SETBACK.
I FEEL LIKE THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE THAT NEEDS TO BE AND WHERE IT NEEDS TO REALLY BE SPELLED OUT, AND IT CAN BE ENHANCED WITH THE IMAGES YOU'RE SHOWING, FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE UPPER RIGHT CORNER, THERE'S A NOTE THAT SAYS SET BACK TOO FAR AND I CAN TELL THAT IT'S MAYBE A FEW FEET TOO FAR BACK.
BUT THIS GUIDELINE REALLY NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THAT YOUR AVERAGE CITIZEN WHO HAS NO BACKGROUND
[01:35:01]
IN ARCHITECTURE OR DESIGN OR ANYTHING CAN PICK UP.THEN GRAPHICALLY, THEY SHOULD IMMEDIATELY BE ABLE TO TELL, HEY, THERE'S FOUR HOUSES ON THIS IMAGE, AND ONE OF THEM IS WAY FAR BACK FROM THE FRONT YARD AND DOESN'T FIT IN WITH OTHER ONES.
THIS IS A GENERAL COMMENT THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT THAT I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THESE IMAGES REVISITED AND THEY'VE STARTED TO BACK UP WHAT'S BEING SAID IN THE DOCUMENT, BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY THERE TO REALLY DRIVE HOME WHAT'S TRYING TO BE COMMUNICATED HERE.
I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT 1-7 AND ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO HANG OUR HAT ON, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CURRENTLY HAVE ANY RULES IN THE GUIDELINES THAT SAY THE START TO DEFINE ROOF SHAPES.
IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE A FRONT PORCH, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE ANYTHING IN OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, THAT TELLS THEM THEY HAVE TO HAVE ONE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS COULD FIND SOMETHING THAT WE COULD AT LEAST LOOK AT OR BRING INTO THE LANGUAGE HERE THAT LIKE YOU SAY, GIVES US SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DEFENSIBLE, THAT WE CAN SAY, LOOK, CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT.
YOU'RE LIVING IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND YOU'VE GOT THREE OUT OF THE FOUR HOUSES ON YOUR BLOCK, HAVE A FRONT PORCH, AND ARE BEYOND THE RULES DEFINED FRONT YARD SETBACK.
YOUR HOUSE SHOULD ALSO START TO TAKE ON SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS.
>> UNLESS YOU HAVE CONTEXT SENSITIVE SETBACK THAT ONTO THE SHEET.
WE'RE REFERENCING BACK IN SECTION 1 BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO PUT IT INTO THE DOCUMENT AND MAYBE SHOW AN EXAMPLE.
I ALSO THINK THAT MAYBE ON THE 1-7, MAYBE WE CREATED A CHECKLIST SAYING, OKAY WHAT IS AROUND IT.
>> JEREMY, I'M GOING TO JUMP IN HERE TOO AND THEN LET JIM CONTINUE.
I HAD THAT ALMOST HIS EXACT COMMENTS ON MY NOTES.
AND THEN I DO LIKE THE BOXED OUT, LIKE ON THE TOP RIGHT, THE HELPFUL HINTS.
YOU ARE REFERRING BACK TO IN THE INTRO ON PAGE 14, THE CONTEXT SENSITIVE SETBACK DETERMINATION.
THAT'S JUST THE CODIFICATION OF IT.
AGAIN, I THINK IF WE WANT TO HAVE ALL THAT TECHNICAL, THAT'S FINE, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THIS ALSO FOR AN APPLICANT THAT'S REFERENCING IT.
THIS IS AUTHORITON LIMITATION, THE CITY MANAGER IS AUTHORIZED.
THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT DOES CONTEXT SENSITIVE SETBACK DETERMINATION? WHAT IS IT? WHAT'S THE PROCESS? HOW DO THEY DO IT? I THINK WHAT JIM SAYING, MAKE IT VERY CLEAR VISIBLY, AND THEN ALSO IN THE LANGUAGE, WHAT DOES THIS REALLY MEAN AND HOW DO THEY GO ABOUT THE PROCESS?
>> I THINK THAT IT IS FAIR COMMENT.
>> ONE THING THAT I'VE LOOKED FOR IN EACH ITERATION THAT WE'VE GOTTEN, AND CERTAINLY, IF ANY OTHER BOARD MEMBERS WANT TO CHIME IN ON THIS, BUT WHEN WE FIRST TALKED ABOUT THE GUIDELINES, WE WERE PRESENTED WITH A CONCEPT THAT IS THIS, NOT THAT, WHERE WE WOULD HAVE A SET OF GRAPHIC IMAGES TO HELP THAT PERSON WHO'S NOT A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL START TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE THEY ACTUALLY LOOKING AT? HOW'S A SHUTTER SUPPOSED TO RELATE TO A WINDOW? WHAT TYPE OF WINDOW TRIM IS APPROPRIATE FOR CERTAIN THINGS? WE HAD SEEN A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE A THIS, NOT THAT SECTION.
I KNOW I WAS IMPRESSED WITH IT BECAUSE I COULD IMMEDIATELY SEE HOW I COULD USE THAT WITH MY CLIENTS AND SAY, OH, HAVE YOU SEEN THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES? LET'S GO TO THIS, NOT THAT SECTION, AND LET'S LOOK AT.
HERE'S WHY IT'S APPROPRIATE TO USE MASONRY ON A CHIMNEY AND NOT WRAP IT WITH LAP SIDING, AND START TO TALK ABOUT ALL THOSE THINGS.
THAT WAS SOMETHING I WAS EXCITED TO SEE THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYWHERE IN HERE.
>> WELL, THERE WAS ONE EXAMPLE ON PAGE RUBBER NUMERAL 10 OF A DO AND A DON'T, AND THE DON'T IDENTIFY CITY HALL AS THE AMELIA SCHOOLHOUSE INN NOW.
[01:40:02]
BUT YES, WE NOT TO PICK OFF CITY HALL, BUT I THINK THAT IT IS THE POSTER CHILD FOR A BEAUTIFUL HISTORIC STRUCTURE.I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SEE THAT, BUT IT IS NOW UPDATED CITY HALL.
>> NONE OF US WOULD WORM ON THAT.
>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE EASY.
>> PREDATE AND HISTORIC TRIGGERS?
I UNDERSTOOD. IT WAS PART OF MODERNIZATION AND I'M IN IT.
JIM, IF YOU HAVE MORE NOTES, I THINK YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO CERTAINLY GET THE TIME HE'S GOT MORE NOTES.
>> FLORIN DOES. WHAT YOU FINISH UP, JIM.
>> WELL, I HAD ALREADY GIVEN TO KELLY A LIST AND I THINK MAYBE SHE'S ALREADY PASSED IT OR ADAPTED IT.
>> IN THE INTEREST OF MOVING THINGS ALONG.
[INAUDIBLE] NOTE FIRST PLEASE.
>> WELL, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS THAT ARE SIMILAR IN SOME WAYS TO WHAT JIM WAS TALKING ABOUT.
THERE ARE PLACES IN THE DOCUMENT, AND I'LL USE PAGE 49 TALKING ABOUT FENCES AS AN EXAMPLE WHERE THE LDC IS REFERENCED.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE AUDIENCE FOR THIS DOCUMENT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APPLICANTS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT US.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO NECESSARILY HAS A EXPERT KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THIS DOCUMENT WORKS WITH THE LDC AND WORKS WITH ALL THE OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT THE CITY HAS.
ON PAGE 49, WE REFERENCE, GO CHECK THE LDC, BUT WE ALSO GIVE SOME PRETTY SPECIFIC DIRECTIONS ON THE SIZE OF THE SIGN, ETC.
WE'RE MIXING A LITTLE BIT, I THINK, A LOT MORE DETAIL IN HERE THAN WE DO NECESSARILY IN OTHER SECTIONS, BUT NOT ENOUGH TO COMPLETELY KNOW WHAT YOUR SIGN NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE.
THE SAME IS TRUE ON PAGE 6. NO SORRY.
MAYBE I GOT THOSE NUMBERS TRANSPOSED, BUT IN BOTH CASES WE HAVE A MIXTURE OF GUIDELINE LANGUAGE AND THEN VERY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE.
I KNOW FOR A FACT, HAVING HAD TO GO THROUGH THE CITY'S PROCESSES ON GETTING A SIGN IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THAT ANY ONE DOCUMENT READ ALONE WILL NOT GIVE YOU ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED.
I THINK THAT EITHER WE SAY WHEREVER IT'S APPROPRIATE, REFERENCE THE LDC, OR WE SAY CONTACT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, OR THE PERMITTING DEPARTMENT, OR WHOEVER IS THE RIGHT AREA TO DO THAT, OR WE LEAVE OUT THAT DETAIL.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO JUST READ THIS AND KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET A SIGN THAT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. THAT'S MY POINT.
>> THE OTHER COMMENT THAT I WOULD MAKE, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT POOR CITY HALL, AND ON PAGE 6 WE HAVE A PICTURE OF CITY HALL SHOWN AS A MID CENTURY, WHICH I AGREE THE TRAGEDY WAS [LAUGHTER] MID CENTURY, BUT THE BUILDING ITSELF IS NOT.
I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S A GREAT PICTURE TO DISPLAY THERE.
>> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ADULTS [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER]
>> THE ONE ON THE RIGHT, 508 IS GONE.
WE PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO SHOW THAT PICTURE.
[01:45:04]
>> I GET TRYING TO MAKE THAT POINT, BUT MAKE THAT POINT IN THE TEXT.
>> PUT THE ANCHOR IN FOR MID-CENTURY [LAUGHTER] BEFORE THE [OVERLAPPING]
>> [INAUDIBLE] NOW THE MID-CENTURY RENOVATION IS OVER 50 YEARS DATED [INAUDIBLE] KNOW IT AS SUCH.
I THINK WE PUT IT IN THERE INTENTIONALLY, BUT I THINK THAT MAYBE WE CAN REPLACE BOTH OF THOSE TWO RIGHT IMAGES [INAUDIBLE]
>> CAN I CHIME IN ON THAT POINT JUST A LITTLE BIT.
>> I ONLY HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT.
THE CRA SECTION, THE APPENDIX FOR CRA GUIDELINES.
THERE ARE ONLY TWO PICTURES SHOWN IN THAT WHOLE SECTION THAT INCLUDE ANYTHING THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE CRA, WHICH COULD BE MISLEADING.
>> I CONCUR. WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THAT EARLIER THIS WEEK INTERNALLY, AND THEN WE TALKED WITH CITY STAFF THIS AFTERNOON.
WE DON'T WANT TO CONFUSE FOLKS.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT EDGE, IF YOU WILL, AND CERTAINLY THE OVERLAP OF THE TWO, THAT WE'RE GIVING CLEAR GUIDANCE TO THOSE PROPERTIES.
BUT I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT ABOUT YOUR OBSERVATION.
DIRECTOR, DID YOU HAVE A NOTE FOR THIS?
>> I WAS GOING TO ADD, AND I KNOW IT'S HARD FOR ME TO HEAR, SO I MIGHT STEP OVER HERE, IF THAT'S OKAY.
>> I WAS GOING TO ADD TO THE POINT ABOUT THE STYLES.
WE DON'T HAVE A TON OF EXAMPLES OF MID-CENTURY STYLES HERE THAT ARE ACTUALLY IN THE DISTRICT ITSELF.
KNOWING THAT CITY HALL, ALTHOUGH UNFORTUNATE IN ITS STYLE CHANGE, IS NOW ITS OWN STYLE, AS WE KNOW IT TODAY, IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF MID-CENTURY AT THIS POINT UNFORTUNATELY.
IT SERVES TO CONVEY, ONE, WE WOULDN'T LIKE YOU TO DO THAT.
IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY, DON'T CHANGE THE STYLE OF THE ARCHITECTURE.
WE WON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN, HOPEFULLY.
BUT NOW THAT IT IS THAT STYLE, OWN THAT STYLE, BE THAT STYLE.
DON'T TRY TO BE SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT ANYMORE.
>> REPLACE THE DEMO BUILDING WITH THE ANCHOR. THAT'S [INAUDIBLE]
>> WE COULD. THE REASON THAT WE DECIDED TO KEEP THAT ONE IN THERE IS IT IS A REALLY COOL EXAMPLE OF WHAT WAS HERE THAT EXEMPLIFIED THAT STYLE.
THAT WAS SOMETHING WE REALLY DID THINK THROUGH AND TALK ABOUT.
WE HAD THIS LONG DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR IMAGE.
BUT IT WAS SUCH A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT PARTICULAR STYLE.
WE WANTED TO BE SURE TO SHOWCASE THIS WAS HERE IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND THERE WERE OTHER EXAMPLES THAT YOU COULD RELY ON.
BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY CHANGE THOSE IMAGES OUT.
>> I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.
WHERE PEPPER'S IS, WAS THAT MID-CENTURY? THAT BANK?
>> YES, PEPPER'S ITSELF WAS A MID-CENTURY EXAMPLE WHEN IT WAS A BANK.
BUT IT'S NOW BEEN "VICTORIANIZED".
IT'S BEEN THE REVERSE OF WHAT WE'D LIKE FOR YOU TO DO, ACTUALLY.
>> I ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND THE POINT.
MY POINT THOUGH IS IF WE'RE GOING TO SHOW IT, WE SHOULD SAY IT'S NOT A GOOD EXAMPLE.
>> ALL RIGHT. I'M JUST GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER BITE OR TWO OF THE ELEPHANT.
UNDER THE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS, I WANT TO PUT TIM POYNTER NOT TIME POINTER.
[LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] I LOVE THE ORGANIZATION AND THE COLOR REFERENCES, AND I GOT SO USED TO USING THEM AND [INAUDIBLE] LIKE, OH, I'M IN THE RESIDENTIAL SECTION BECAUSE IT'S RED, OR IT'S YELLOW.
I'M IN THE COMMERCIAL. I WOULD SUGGEST WHEN YOU GO RIGHT INTO ROMAN NUMERAL 4, PAGE 4, YOU'VE GOT THE ONE PAGE GUIDE, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE CHECKLIST AND GETTING STARTED.
YOU HAVE ALL OF THOSE IN THE BLUE COLOR.
BACK UP IN THE TABLE OF CONTENTS, CAN YOU TITALIZE THE LITTLE ROMAN NUMERAL INTRO SECTION WITH A BLUE HEADER?
[01:50:05]
>> OKAY. BACK TO ROMAN NUMERAL 4, THE ONE PAGE GUIDE.
I THINK THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION ON THAT THAT WE LOSE A LOT OF IT, ESPECIALLY THE FLOW CHART IS SO TINY, YOU GOT TO BLOW IT UP SO BIG TO EVEN READ IT.
SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO READ WORDS.
DO YOU LIKE A VISUAL MAP, OR DO YOU LIKE A WRITTEN MAP? I'M A SUPER VISUAL PERSON, SO TO ME, WHEN I DID MY PROCESS, I LIVED AND DIED BY THAT CHART.
I'M WONDERING IF EVERYTHING THAT'S ON THIS PAGE CAN BE ON TWO PAGES.
MAYBE EVERYTHING ON THE LEFT IS ONE PAGE, SO IT'S LARGER AND ORGANIZED A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
THEN THE NEXT PAGE IS ALMOST LIKE, HOW TO USE THIS GUIDE.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE GOT TOO MUCH INFORMATION TRYING TO BE CONVEYED ON THAT PAGE.
LET'S SEE, I THINK I HAVE [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE'RE TRYING TO DO A ONE PAGE GUIDE [INAUDIBLE] BUT IF WE'RE OVERWHELMING OR CONFUSING [OVERLAPPING]
>> NO ONE'S GOING TO CRITICIZE YOU FOR MAKING IT BIGGER.
>> ONE SMALL THING ON THE WINDOW TERMINOLOGY, PAGE 43.
YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION, BECAUSE ONE OF MY QUESTIONS WAS, IF WE'RE REFERENCING OR SHOWING THE APPROVED WINDOW LIST, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO CHECK IF WE'VE UPDATED IT.
CAN WE CALL OUT AN APRON? BACK TO 43, SORRY.
>> CAN WE CALL OUT THE APRON DETAIL ON THAT? THEN MAYBE ON A COUPLE OF THE DRAWINGS, CAN WE DO SOME EXTENDED SEAL HORNS? BECAUSE THAT'S A DETAIL THAT IS VERY PROMINENT, SO WE DON'T HAVE THE SEALS THAT END FLUSH WITH THE APRONS AND THE TRIM.
THEY MIGHT HAVE EXTENDED HORNS, JUST TO SHOW THE DIFFERENCE, STYLES ON THERE.
THIS IS MOVING AND NON CONTRIBUTING BUILDINGS.
THEN IT SAYS, RECENTLY BUILT DWELLING EXAMPLE 504 BEACH.
EXAMPLE OF WHAT? TO ME, WAS THAT BUILDING MOVED? IS THAT A NON CONTRIBUTING BUILDING? I THINK WE NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY THAT IMAGE IS THERE RELATED TO THAT.
>> IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXAMPLE OF NON-CONTRIBUTING BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, WE SHOULD CLARIFY THAT.
>> THEN THE PAGE PRIOR, WHERE WE HAVE THE EXCELLENT DEMOLITION MATRIX.
THIS IS PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR KELLY, DOES EVERYTHING ON HERE JIVE WITH OUR MORE STRINGENT DEMO GUIDELINES THAT WE HAD PASSED THROUGH RESOLUTION, PROBABLY A YEAR AGO OR SO?
>> MAKE SURE THAT ALL GOES WITH WHAT WE HAVE.
>> OKAY. THAT'S ALL I GOT FOR THE MOMENT.
>> IS THAT IT? IS THAT SUFFICIENT GUIDANCE, GENTLEMEN?
>> YEAH, IT'S GREAT. THANK YOU.
>> WE'VE BEEN GETTING INFORMATION THROUGH MS. GIBSON THROUGH THIS PROCESS FROM YOU ALL.
BUT YOU SPENT AN EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF TIME REALLY DIVING INTO THIS WITH US AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.
WE'VE BEEN IN YOUR SHOES BEFORE, AND I THINK [INAUDIBLE] SHOULD BE PROUD OF THE AMOUNT OF DETAIL THAT YOU'VE GONE IN.
WE WILL MAKE SURE TO INCORPORATE [INAUDIBLE] I'M WORKING WITH KELLY AND THE TEAM TO GET IT READY SO THAT WE CAN STAY ON SCHEDULE. THIS IS FANTASTIC.
>> WE'RE GOING TO INTERRUPT THIS PROGRAM.
[LAUGHTER] WE'RE GOING TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT BECAUSE IT'S TOTALLY APPROPRIATE TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS TIME.
[8. PUBLIC COMMENT]
JOYCE, COULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF?>> SURE. JOYCE TUTON, 2120 BEACH STREET.
I'LL BE QUICK BECAUSE IT'S LATE, AND I'M STARVING, AND YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO THINK RESILIENCY CALL OUTS.
[01:55:02]
THEY ARE AWESOME.CAN PAGE 36, THE LIGHTING, CAN THAT GET A RESILIENCY CALL OUT? CAN WE TEACH ABOUT DARK SKIES? I CAN EMAIL YOU ALL.
CONSERVE NASSAU HAS A GREAT WHITE PAPER ABOUT DARK SKIES.
>> I THINK OUR CONSULTANTS COULD FIGURE THAT OUT.
>> THANK YOU, BECAUSE THAT WAS ON MY NOTES.
JEREMY, THE OTHER THING IS, IF I REMEMBER, UNDER THE COMMERCIAL LIGHTING, THE LAST EITHER BULLET POINT OR NUMBER, YOU JUST REFERENCE THAT CUT OFF LIGHTING SHOULD BE USED.
PLEASE DEFINE THAT FOR THE AVERAGE JOE.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT CUT OFF LIGHTING IS.
>> IT'S DOWN. IT DOESN'T SPILL [OVERLAPPING]
>> YEAH. LIGHTING ONLY WHERE YOU NEED LIGHTING.
>> THAT PULLS IN THE DARK SKIES.
>> YEAH. BECAUSE I DO EVENING TURTLE RELEASES OF BABIES OUT ON LITTLE TALBOT, AND YOU CAN SEE THE GLOW FROM OVER HERE AND IT'S GETTING WORSE.
IT'S INCREDIBLE. PAGE 42, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO SPACE FOR A RESILIENCY CALL OUT, SO IT WOULD NEED ANOTHER PAGE.
BUT I LOVE THAT FIRST LINE OF OBVIOUSLY PRESERVE HISTORIC WINDOWS. THAT'S CRITICAL.
BUT CAN THERE BE A CALL OUT TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND CRADLE TO GRAVE RESILIENCE ENERGY USE, AND THAT YOU ARE NOT SAVING OVERALL WORLD ENERGY BY GETTING BRAND NEW TRIPLE PANED WINDOWS.
YOU ARE SAVING OVERALL TOTAL WORLD ENERGY IF YOU KEEP YOUR OLD WINDOWS, THEY DON'T GO TO A DUMPSTER, YOU DON'T MANUFACTURE NEW ONES, YOU DON'T HAUL, AND TRANSPORT, AND INSTALL, AND BLAH, BLAH.
>> THAT ACTUALLY APPLIES TO THE ENTIRE RESTORATION REHAB PROCESS.
>> YES. UNDERSTANDING CRADLE TO GRAVE ENERGY.
>> HEY, WE'VE TAKEN PUBLIC INPUT.
>> ALL RIGHT. DIRECTOR. NEXT STEP.
LET THESE GUYS GO. THANK THEM FOR STAYING LATE TONIGHT. WE SURE APPRECIATE IT.
>> IF YOU DO HAVE ANY WRITTEN FEEDBACK THAT YOU COULD PROVIDE TO ME THAT WAY I CAN SCAN THAT IN.
BUT THEY'VE HEARD EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID ON THE RECORD THIS EVENING.
IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE IN WRITING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT GETS SENT TO [INAUDIBLE] PLEASE SEND THAT OVER TO ME. THAT'S FOR ANYONE.
>> ALL RIGHT. WE'D LIKE TO THANK LAURA JACOBS FOR HER WORK ON THIS AS WELL.
AFTER THAT WE'LL CUT THESE GUYS LOOSE.
>> DIRECTOR, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL, AND IS THERE ANYBODY HERE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT?
>> DIRECTOR, YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE?
>> I WOULD JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT WE DO HAVE A NEW STAFF MEMBER JOINING US THIS EVENING.
[7. STAFF REPORT]
IT'S MARGARET PEARSON. SHE IS JOINING US AS A SENIOR PLANNER.SHE COMES TO US MOST RECENTLY FROM VIRGINIA, BUT BY WAY OF CONCORD, WHERE SHE SERVED FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS AS THEIR PLANNING DIRECTOR AND HAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE.
WE'RE REALLY HAPPY TO HAVE HER HERE WORKING WITH US.
>> ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE'RE DONE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
I TOLD MY WIFE I'D BE HOME AROUND 7:00.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.