Apr 24, 2024 Planning Advisory Board Workshop

[00:00:01]

READY? YES, WE ARE RECORDING.

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE AND IN THE BOARD.

WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE EVERYONE HERE TO THE PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD WORKSHOP ON APRIL THE 24TH, 2024. THE TIME IS 3:00 P.M., AND WE'RE MEETING IN CITY HALL COMMISSION CHAMBERS IN FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.

MR. STEVENSON, WOULD YOU LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL? VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT.

COULD I HAVE MADAM SECRETARY? CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE.

YES. MEMBER BENNETT.

HERE. MEMBER STEVENSON.

HERE. MEMBER DOSTER.

HERE. MEMBER GILLETTE.

HERE. CHAIR ROBAS.

HERE. AND THEN MEMBERS GINGHER AND DURHAM ARE NOT TODAY.

NOT HERE TODAY.

THANK YOU. AND I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME MEMBER DAPHNE FOREHAND AS OUR INCOMING NEW BOARD MEMBER.

SHE WILL BE AT OUR, I ASSUME OUR REGULAR BOARD MEETING IN MAY, AND WE WELCOME HER AND ARE VERY EXCITED TO HAVE HER ON THE BOARD.

OKAY. ITEM THREE, BOARD BUSINESS, DISCUSS DEFINITIONS.

[3.1 Discuss Definitions]

MY THINKING IS THAT WE START WITH THE LIST THAT MEMBER STEVENSON PROVIDED TO US IN THE PACKET AND THEN THE BOARD. ADD TO THAT, IF THERE WERE SOME ADDITIONAL DEFINITIONS, NOT THAT THIS IS ALL INCLUSIVE, AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT SORT OF COMES TO US AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS, OR WE FEEL IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ADD TO THIS LIST.

I THINK IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADDITIONAL DEFINITIONS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT, THIS MIGHT BE THE OPPORTUNITY. THESE ARE ALL LOCATED IN OR RELATE TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT FIRST.

CAN I ADD ONE ONE BIT OF INFO.

YES, SIR. ALL RIGHT.

ITEM SIX, SEVEN, 14 AND 15 HAVE A DEFINITION IN THE LDC IN THE WAS IT AUGUST 1ST 2023 UPDATE? OKAY. SO THEY ARE ON THAT.

YOU KNOW THAT ONE OF THEM HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TITLE, BUT IT'S THE SAME THING.

SO THOSE FOUR ARE THERE.

WELL WE MIGHT WANT TO JUST LOOK AT IT AGAIN.

JUST. YEAH. YEAH. SO WHICH WHAT WERE THE NUMBERS AGAIN.

6, 7, 9, 14 AND 16 OKAY.

SO, SO I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING TO BE AWARE OF. WERE THERE ANY OTHER ITEMS? I'M LOOKING AT WHAT STAFF GAVE US? I GUESS A COUPLE, I GUESS BACK IN FEBRUARY WHEN WE WERE FIRST LOOKING AT SECTION 103-04 THEY HAD BUILDING SITE.

LET'S SEE IF THAT'S ON MR. STEVENSON'S LIST. NUMBER TWO.

BUILDING SITE. SO THAT'S ON THERE.

PARCEL. PARCEL THAT'S ON THERE.

THAT'S TEN. PLATTED LOT OF RECORD.

THAT'S 13.

OKAY. PRINCIPLE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE THAT'S ON THERE.

THAT'S 14.

RIGHT. SUBSTANDARD LOT THAT'S ON THERE.

SO I THINK WE'VE COVERED THOSE I HAVE ANOTHER ONE SOME DEFINITIONS.

AGAIN, BUILDING SITE THAT'S ON THERE.

THIS WAS A DEFINITION.

DO WE NEED TO HAVE I GUESS WE DO A DEFINITION OF THE CITY PLAT BECAUSE THAT'S ON YOUR LIST, MR. STEVENSON. YEAH.

PARCEL IS ON THERE.

IS REPLAT, IS REPLAT 11? YEP. 11.

SUBDIVISION IS ON THERE.

SUBDIVIDE IS ON THERE.

LOT IS ON THERE.

LOT OF RECORD IS ON THERE.

OKAY. PLATTED LOT PLATTED LOT IS ON THERE.

PLATTED LOT OF RECORD IS ON THERE SUBSTANDARD LOT IS ON THERE.

[00:05:06]

ARE THERE ANY OTHER DEFINITIONS THAT THE BOARD WANTED TO GO OVER OR ADD TO THIS LIST? ANYTHING WE MIGHT HAVE MISSED? ANYTHING? NO. SO FAR? YEAH. I'M HOPING SOMEBODY MIGHT HAVE CAUGHT SOMETHING BECAUSE SOME OF IT'S IN THE NOTES AND SO ON.

PEOPLE MENTIONED ALONG THE WAY AND I TRIED TO CAPTURE WHAT I COULD, BUT.

[INAUDIBLE] I THINK YOU'VE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB MR. STEVENSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GETTING US STARTED HERE.

I WILL TELL YOU ONE THING, AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD LEARNING EXERCISE, EVEN IF IT'S JUST TO GO THROUGH IT.

SORRY ABOUT THAT. THE LOT IS KIND OF A GLOBAL TERM IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SO LIKE THE LOT OF RECORD IS A SUBSET OF IT.

SO YOU MIGHT MISS IT GOING THROUGH.

BUT IT IS IN THERE AND IT'S AGAIN, WE COULD PROBABLY ALL JUST GOING THROUGH IT AND REVIEWING IT.

YOU SAY, OH I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS A SUBSET OF SOMETHING ELSE.

SO THAT WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT I NOTED IN THE GROUP THAT WE'VE GOT ON THIS LIST.

OKAY. AND YOU'LL REMIND US WHEN WE GET TO THAT ONE.

YEAH. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, I SAY WE JUST DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTION WITH PROCEEDING WITH THE LIST FROM MEMBER STEVENSON THAT WAS IN OUR PACKET? DOES ANYBODY. EVERYBODY OKAY.

RESTART FROM THE TOP, FROM NUMBER ONE, THE ANCILLARY IMPROVEMENTS.

I'D LIKE TO LOOK FIRST OF ALL, TO SEE IF IT'S IN OUR DEFINITIONS OF, IN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. AND I'M LOOKING HERE UNDER I DIDN'T SEE LET'S SEE ANCILLARY IMPROVEMENTS.

I DON'T SEE THAT IN THE DEFINITIONS.

I PROBABLY SHOULD GO TO.

WE HAVE AN EXPERT HERE.

WELL, WE PROBABLY SHOULD JUST GO TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

BECAUSE SHE'S. AND THANK YOU KELLY, FOR PUTTING THE SET OF DEFINITIONS NOT ONLY JUST FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT ALSO FOR THE COMP PLAN.

SO MADE IT VERY EASY FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT.

YEAH. AND KELLY THAT AUGUST OF LAST YEAR FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THAT'S THE LATEST DOCUMENT.

YES. BECAUSE I HAD AN OLDER ONE.

SO I JUST I GOT RID OF EVERYTHING.

JUST I WENT WITH THAT ONE AS BEING THE RIGHT ONE.INDIVIDUAL CHAPTERS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

I'M HAPPY TO SEND THEM OVER BY EMAIL.

IT MAKES IT A LOT EASIER TO SEARCH ON THEM.

GREAT. GOOD. THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

IF I COULD THE TERM ANCILLARY IMPROVEMENT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU TYPICALLY FIND, AT LEAST IN CHAPTER ONE OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE OTHER THAN ITS CONNECTION TO MANUFACTURING.

BUT WHAT WE DO SEE, AND WHAT I THINK THIS REALLY RELATES TO IS ACCESSORY.

SO THE TERM ACCESSORY USE OR ACCESSORY BUILDING IS A TERM WHICH IS DEFINED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

AND SO I GUESS THERE'S PERHAPS SOME CLARIFICATION ON THE TIMING FOR WHEN WE WOULD USE THAT TERM ANCILLARY.

OR IF YOU'RE SIMPLY LOOKING FOR THE DEFINITIONAL ELEMENT OF ANCILLARY ITSELF AND WHAT THAT MEANS, I'M NOT SURE WHERE ELSE IT MAY BE UTILIZED IN THE DOCUMENT OTHER THAN AS IT DOES RELATE TO MANUFACTURING, AT LEAST IN CHAPTER ONE.

OKAY. BECAUSE ONE ALTERNATIVE MIGHT BE JUST LIKE A LOT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT LOT, THERE ARE I DON'T KNOW OKAY, WE GOT WHAT MAYBE A DOZEN ITEMS UNDER THE TERM LOT THAT FURTHER DEFINE IT.

WE MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, A GENERAL CATEGORY THEN PUT AUXILIARY AND ANCILLARY IS SUBSETS OF THAT ITEM. OKAY, SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE ACCESSORY USE ACCESSORY BUILDING WITH LIKE A PARENTHESES ANCILLARY IN THAT SET LIKE THAT CONTEXT? NO, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT AND SEE JUST KIND OF GET A FEELING WHAT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT ACCESSORY USE OR BUILDING IS ALREADY DEFINED IN THE LDC.

THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S A VERY FIRST DEFINITION.

AND ACTUALLY I'M SORRY.

IT'S THE SECOND DEFINITION ABUT.

AND SO I MEAN IT MAY MEAN, YOU KNOW, A 2 OR 3 WORD ADDITION OR SOMETHING.

IT MAY BE I DON'T LET'S NOT KILL ANOTHER TREE TO DO ADD TO THE LIST IF WE DON'T HAVE TO.

[00:10:01]

OKAY, SO WHAT IS THE.

IT'S THE SECOND DEFINITION UNDER B GLOSSARY OF TERMS. IT IS ACCESSORY USE OR BUILDING MEANS ANY BUILDING USE STRUCTURE OR DWELLING UNIT THAT IS A SUBORDINATE USE OR BUILDING CUSTOMARILY INCIDENT TO AND LOCATED UPON THE SAME LOT OCCUPIED BY THE MAIN USE OR BUILDING. WELL, THAT'S ALREADY DEFINED IN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

THAT'S WHERE I READ IT FROM.

YOU'RE READING IT FROM. THAT'S WHAT I'M READING FROM.

AND SO WE HAVE THE TERM I GUESS THAT'S BEEN SORT OF TOSSED AROUND IS ANCILLARY IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH ANCILLARY WOULD BE ALONG THE SAME LINES AND DEFINITION AS ACCESSORY USE? I DON'T THINK SO. YOU THINK IT'S A DIFFERENT I DO I THINK ANCILLARY I CALL IT WHATEVER, THE DESCRIPTION IS, I CONSIDER THAT TO BE LIKE FENCES AND DRIVEWAYS AND THINGS THAT ARE INCIDENTAL TO THE USE ON THE PROPERTY, WHETHER IT'S AN ACCESSORY USE OR A PRIMARY USE.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE REGULATE ANY OF THOSE AS THEY RELATE TO LAND DEVELOPMENT.

YOU PULL A PERMIT FOR A FENCE AND THAT WOULD BE ANCILLARY, BUT YOU WOULD FOR A WALL TOO YOU WOULD FOR A WALL.

BUT I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S NOT A USE.

THE USE IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT'S USED.

OKAY. SO I MEAN, ALL THE OTHER THINGS ARE INCIDENTAL TO THE ACTUAL USE.

AND SO THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU PUTTING THE WORD USE BEHIND IT IS ISN'T NECESSARILY APPROPRIATE.

OKAY. SO IS ANCILLARY IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD BE THE FENCING A WALL THAT KIND OF THING.

BUT DO WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT REGULATES THOSE IN SUMMARY OR IN SUMMATION ACROSS THE PROPERTY.

THEY ARE CONTAINED IN CHAPTER FIVE OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AS IT RELATES TO THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, OKAY.

THEY DON'T QUALIFY THEM AS ANCILLARY OR INCIDENTAL, SIMPLY ACCESSORY TO SOMETHING THAT'S OTHERWISE A PERMITTED PRINCIPAL USE.

WOULD WE EVER USE THE DEFINITION ANCILLARY/ SO I CAN SEARCH ON THE ENTIRETY OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE? BUT FROM WHAT I CAN FIND IN CHAPTER ONE, IT'S ONLY APPEARING IN CONNECTION WITH MANUFACTURING WHERE DO YOU FIND IT? IT CAME OFF ONE OF THE LISTS THAT CAME UP AS A TERM THAT SOMEBODY MENTIONED, AND I JUST WROTE IT DOWN BECAUSE I'D NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE. BUT NICK'S GOT A GOOD POINT.

SO IF LIKE I WENT OUT AND I HAD A RETAINING WALL THAT WAS MADE OUT OF WOOD AND I HAD IT REPLACED, WELL, THAT YOU GO IF THERE'S CERTAIN HEIGHTS TO IT, YOU HAVE TO GET A PERMIT. AND I MAY HAVE SEEN IT WHEN SOMETHING CAME OUT THAT WAY.

SO IT WAS WHAT IT WAS.

WE WENT TO A MASONRY RETAINING WALL.

NOW THAT RETAINING WALL HAS NO FUNCTION OTHER THAN TO PROTECT AN OAK TREE THAT'S AROUND IT.

SO I MEAN, IT'S PURELY SO IT'S NOT A AND I THINK THE POINT IS IT'S NOT AN ACTIVE PART OF THE PROPERTY.

YES, IT DOES PROVIDE SOME I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT SOME PROTECTION.

BUT IT WASN'T THERE.

IT WAS THERE TO BASICALLY PROTECT THE OAK TREE.

AND BECAUSE OF A DIFFERENT ELEVATION, YOU HEARD IT.

BUT IF I UNDERSTAND NICK AND KELLY CORRECTLY, IT'S NOT REALLY A THING.

WELL, IT I MEAN, IT IS A THING, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE REALLY REGULATE THOSE IN THEIR ENTIRETY.

I MEAN, AN ANCILLARY USE COULD BE A TREE YOU PLANT OR NOT USE IMPROVEMENT.

IT COULD BE A TREE PLANT, IT COULD BE A DRIVEWAY, IT COULD BE A WALL, IT COULD BE A FLAGPOLE, IT COULD BE A FENCE.

I THINK IT'S ANOTHER DESCRIPTIVE WORD FOR WHAT IS OTHERWISE ACCESSORY TO A PERMITTED PRINCIPAL USE OR STRUCTURE.

IT'S ANOTHER WORD FOR IT.

IN LOOKING AT THE CODE OVERALL, ALL 305 PAGES OF IT, THERE ARE 19 TIMES THE WORD ANCILLARY APPEARS, MOST OF THE TIMES THAT IT APPEARS IS IN CONNECTION WITH WIRELESS FACILITIES WHERE THEY'RE USING IT AS A TERM.

THE TERM ANCILLARY STRUCTURE TO DESCRIBE THE COMPONENT PARTS AND MECHANICAL PIECES THAT GO WITH THE WIRELESS FACILITY.

ANOTHER AREA THAT IT APPEARS THAT IS IMPORTANT IS UNDER THE OLD TOWN SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS, WHICH TALKS ABOUT OUTBUILDINGS ARE ANCILLARY TO A PRIMARY BUILDING IN SIZE AND DEGREE.

THAT'S WHERE THAT TERM COMES UP IN THAT SPACE.

BUT AGAIN, IT'S I THINK IN THAT SITUATION BEING USED ALMOST INTERCHANGEABLY WITH ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

WELL, IS IT TO AVOID CONFUSION? DO WE NEED TO SAY THAT DO WE NEED TO SAY THAT ANCILLARY

[00:15:03]

AND THEN SO GIVE EXAMPLES OF IT, EXCEPT IF IT'S AN ANCILLARY IMPROVEMENT IT'S WHAT WE'VE JUST ALL IDENTIFIED.

AND I THINK IN THAT CASE, TO ON THE SIDE OF THOROUGHNESS, I'D ADD IT.

YEAH. AND DEFINE WHAT IT IS AND LEASE IN GENERAL TERMS. AND I THINK NICK'S ALREADY PROBABLY HIT WHAT 90% OF THE ITEMS. BUT IT WOULD JUST SOMEWHERE I, PICKED IT UP PREVIOUSLY.

DO YOU EVER COME ACROSS THAT TERM IN ANYTHING YOU'RE DOING.

NO, NO. OKAY.

THAT'S MY ANSWER TO THAT.

NO, NO. WELL BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS IN THE CODE 19 TIMES, SO THAT IS NEWS TO ME.

WELL, YEAH, BUT SHE DID SAY IN OLD TOWN THERE'S SUCH A THING AS AN ANCILLARY STRUCTURE.

THEY JUST PUT THE WORD ANCILLARY INSTEAD OF ACCESSORY THERE.

SO WE SHOULD PROBABLY CHANGE THE CODE WHENEVER WE DO AN UPDATE TO SAY ACCESSORY.

IT'S A DESCRIPTIVE TERM TO MEAN SUBORDINATE TO.

SO ALL RIGHT SO DO WE WANT TO MAKE A NOTE THEN TO FOR FUTURE CHANGES.

WHAT CHAPTER WAS THAT AGAIN.

OH FOR OLD TOWN. YEAH.

AT 8.01.01.02C3 LITTLE B.

ALL RIGHT, SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.

8.01.0, 1.02C.

OH, YEAH.

THAT'LL BE GREAT.

BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE ANCILLARY IS AN ADJECTIVE, NOT A NOUN.

CORRECT. YES.

YEAH. EXACTLY. YES, VERY MUCH SO.

ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION BY GOOGLE GOT IT SAYS SUBORDINATE USE SUBORDINATE.

AND SO.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

DOES THE BOARD FEEL THAT ADDING ANY CLARIFICATION TO USING THE WORD ANCILLARY TO THE ACCESSORY USE OR BUILDING MAKES ANY SENSE? DOES IT HELP CLARIFY BECAUSE IT IS USED INTERCHANGEABLY BY NOT ONLY PROBABLY US, BUT BY THE PUBLIC? AND IF WE CAN MAKE THAT WORD A LITTLE BIT CLEARER, BUT IT'S NOT IN CHAPTER FIVE, THAT TERM IS NOT USED.

THERE'S NO DEFINITIONAL PIECE OF THE CODE.

IF THE PURPOSE IS TO HAVE A DEFINED TERM FOR SAKE OF DISCUSSION.

SURE, BUT THERE'S NOTHING THAT THE CODE IS REGULATING, WITH EXCEPTION OF THAT ONE AREA AS ANCILLARY THAT YOU CANNOT ALREADY REGULATE UNDER THE TERMS OF THE ACCESSORY USES AND THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS WHERE THERE ARE REGULATIONS TIED TO THAT AS ACCESSORY USE. SHE SAID IT BETTER THAN I DID.

I AGREE WITH THAT. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY I SO WHAT IS THE FEELING OF THE BOARD.

DO WE WANT TO I THINK WE OUGHT TO INCLUDE IT.

OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT WE INCLUDE SOME REFERENCE TO THAT.

IT CAN EITHER BE MAYBE ADDED TO THE DEFINITION OF ACCESSORY, BUT I THINK THERE OUGHT TO BE SOMETHING JUST TO CLARIFY BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE TERM IS THERE IS THERE.

WHY NOT, WHY NOT HAVE IT IN THERE? THERE MAY BE AN OVERKILL, BUT WHY CHANGE TERMS SOMEWHERE ELSE? 19 PLACES IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WHERE YOU CAN PUT THE DEFINITION UP FRONT, AND THEN IT'S TAKEN CARE OF.

WOULD YOU? WHERE ARE YOU FINDING IT IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHAPTER EIGHT.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE KELLY I'M ON CHAPTER EIGHT RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S JUST ONE PREDOMINANTLY WHERE YOU FIND IT THE MOST IS IN THE WIRELESS FACILITIES.

SO THERE'S NUMBER 18,17 ALL IN WIRELESS 16, 15, 14.

BUT ARE THEY 14.

NUMBER 14 VERSION OF IT TALKS ABOUT IT IN THE SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS FOR RELIGIOUS USES AND FACILITIES, WHERE IT'S DESCRIBING USES AND ACTIVITIES OTHER THAN WORSHIP SHALL BE CONSIDERED ACCESSORY USES AND SHALL BE CLEARLY ANCILLARY TO THE PRIMARY USE, AGAIN, AS A DESCRIPTIVE WORD INSTEAD OF BEING SOMETHING THAT'S A NOUN, OKAY, IT'S JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT CLEAR SO THAT IT SHOULD BE.

BUT WE ALREADY DEFINED ACCESSORY USE.

SO YEAH. YEAH THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

[00:20:01]

WE GET BACK INTO TELECOM FOR 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3.

AND THEN THE TWO THE LAST TWO ARE TIED TO MANUFACTURING AND OR ASSEMBLY FOR HEAVY AND FOR MANUFACTURING AND OR ASSEMBLY FOR MARINE RELATED.

THOSE ARE THE LAST TWO TIMES THAT THAT TERM APPEARS IN THE CODE.

ALL RIGHT. SO AGAIN I THINK THE WORD STANDS ON ITS OWN AND DOESN'T NEED TO BE DEFINED.

STANDS ON IT'S OWN. AGREED.

OKAY. AND I'LL GO ON RECORD IS DISAGREE.

[LAUGHTER] OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

VERY GOOD. WELL THAT STRUCK A NERVE.

ALL RIGHT. SO LET'S JUST REMEMBER THAT NEXT TIME ANCILLARY COMES UP WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT'S A VERB NOT A NOUN ADJECTIVE I MEAN IT'S AN ADJECTIVE NOT A VERB. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL SPEAKING THE SAME LANGUAGE.

ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GOING TO PASS ON NUMBER ONE.

ALL RIGHT LET'S TALK ABOUT BUILDING SITE.

AND THAT IS BUILDING SITE. BUILDING IS THERE A BUILDING.

IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THERE IS BUILDING, BUILDING FOOTPRINT, BUILDING HEIGHT OF.

AND THAT'S IT. OKAY.

IS BUILDING SITE IN THE CODE SOMEWHERE.

YOU HAVE SITE THAT APPEARS A LOT.

466 TIMES.

LESS THAN THREE.

3.04. IT TALKS ABOUT ERECTED UPON A BUILDING SITE.

USES THAT TERM, BUT I'M JUST DOING A SEARCH OF THE.

ALL RIGHT. CHAPTER ONE.

RIGHT NOW. ALL RIGHT.

IT APPEARS FOR ALL TIMES.

IT FIRST APPEARS AND IS THROUGHOUT 103.04.

ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE TIMES OUT OF THE 12.

THEN IN 103.05 FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE AND TEN.

SO PREDOMINANTLY IN 103.04 AND 103.05 WHERE YOU'LL FIND THE TERM BUILDING SITE.

YEAH. THEN IN 11 YOU'LL SEE GRADE NATURAL, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT THE BUILDING SITE AND HOW TO MEASURE THAT AS THE AVERAGE OF THE ELEVATION FROM FOUR CORNERS OF THE BUILDING SITE, BASED ON A CERTIFIED SURVEY AND THEN IN CRITERIA FOR CANOPY ROAD TREE REMOVAL.

SUBSECTION B TALKS ABOUT LIMITED ACCESS TO THE BUILDING SITE ESSENTIAL FOR REASONABLE USE OF CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT.

AND KELLY, DID YOU SAY SOMEWHERE THAT THE WORD SITE WAS DEFINED? IT'S NOT OUR DEFINITION.

I DON'T THINK SO.

I JUST KNOW THE WORD SITE APPEARS.

OKAY. ALL WELL, KEEP IN MIND YOU HAVE MANY PAGES THAT ARE SITE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS.

THEY'RE LABELED IN A HEADER.

OKAY. THE ONLY DEFINITION.

OKAY. THAT'S IN THE LDC NOW.

YOUR SITE DOESN'T SHOW UP IN THAT.

AND AGAIN, WHEN YOU START USING TERM LIKE THAT FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, WHAT'S THE POINT OF REFERENCE TO HOW IT IS DEFINED? IS IT JUST SUBJECTIVELY DEFINED OR IS IT DEFINED BY SOME? WELL, I'LL TELL YOU IN THE COUNTY I DID A LITTLE DIGGING ON THAT.

OKAY. THEY DON'T DEFINE IT.

BUT IN ONE OF THEIR SECTIONS THEY SAY BUILD OF ANY BUILDING SITE.

AND IN PARENTHESES THEY PUT LOT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S RIGHT THOUGH.

LET ME LOOK AT LOT. BECAUSE NOT EVERY LOT IS BUILDABLE.

WELL, AND YOU MAY NOT BE AFFECTING THE ENTIRETY OF THE LOT.

YEAH IN THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING SITE, YOU MAY BE DOING AN ACCESSORY IMPROVEMENT THAT'S NOT AFFECTING THE ENTIRETY OF THE LOT.

YEAH. LET ME SEE WHAT WE HAVE UNDER LOT.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS HERE.

LET ME SEE OKAY.

IT'S CORNER LOT, DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT, INTERIOR LOT, LOT DEPTH, LOT OF RECORD LOT WIDTH.

THAT'S IT. SO NO, IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY SPELLED OUT IN OUR DEFINITIONS, WHICH ARE ALL OF THESE ITEMS ARE UNDER A TERM CALLED LOT. BUT HOW DO THEY DEFINE IT WITH THE STUFF YOU DO? I MEAN, NO, I MEAN THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE I WOULD CONSIDER IT THE PART OF THE LOT THAT CAN BE BUILT UPON AS OPPOSED TO JUST A LOT.

[00:25:04]

THIS IS FROM OXFORD LANGUAGES.

IT'S A NOUN, AN AREA WHERE A BUILDING OR OTHER STRUCTURE IS BEING CONSTRUCTED OR REPAIRED.

I CAN GOOGLE FOR YOU.

YEAH. I MEAN THAT'S EVERYBODY'S SOURCE ISN'T IT? YES. IT IS A PIECE OF LAND IN WHICH A HOME OR OTHER BUILDING IS BEING BUILT.

PRETTY SIMPLE.

SO THAT. AND THEN WE HAVE A PLAN OR DICTIONARY THAT WOULD OFFER MULTIPLE ITERATIONS OF HOW OTHER COMMUNITIES.

HOW IS IT LISTED UNDER THE STATE STATUTES? DO THEY HAVE A DEFINITION? DOES THE STATE STATUTE? I DON'T HAVE MY INTERNET LINK ON HERE, SO I CAN'T SEARCH ON THERE.

THE STATE OF FLORIDA BUILDING JUST FLORIDA STATUTES.

JUST LOT? OR JUST GO TO GOOGLE AND GOOGLE IT AND SAY STATE OF FLORIDA DEFINITION OF LOT.

WELL, I WENT TO ONLINE SUNSHINE AND SEARCHED IN THEIR SEARCH ENGINE.

SO THE FLORIDA STATUTE, WHAT DOES IT SAY? THE WORD LOT APPEARS AS IT RELATES TO RENTAL AGREEMENTS.

THOSE BUILDING SITE IN THERE.

I HAVEN'T LOOKED FOR THAT. MARK'S DEFINITION WAS PRETTY CLEAR.

YEAH, IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD ONE.

YEAH. AND PARKING LOT.

MARK READ YOUR DEFINITION AGAIN.

GOOD DEFINITION.

YEAH. A PIECE OF LAND ON WHICH A HOUSE OR OTHER BUILDING IS BEING BUILT.

I MEAN NOT MUCH TO ADD TO THAT.

THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF LOT RIGHT.

A BUILDING SITE ACCORDING TO GOOGLE.

OKAY. I WANT TO BE CLEAR ON WHERE I'M GETTING THIS FROM.

WELL, I DIDN'T BRING MY BOOKS FROM APPRAISAL, WHICH WE HAVE A WHOLE DICTIONARY FULL OF.

KELLY, WHAT DO YOU THINK? DO YOU THINK THAT'S TOO BROAD OF A DEFINITION OR DO WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL WITH IT? ITHINK, TOO, I MEAN, WHAT WHY? WELL, BECAUSE SOMEBODY MAY SAY I'M TRYING TO ACCESS MY.

IF WE MAKE IT LIKE A LOT.

SOMEONE MAY SAY I'M TRYING TO ACCESS MY BUILDING SITE AND IT SAYS THAT I CAN DO IT, BUT THEY MAY ACCESS IT THROUGH A WETLAND, OR THEY MAY DO SOME OTHER WAY THAT COULD BE ACCESSING THEIR LOT AND NOT WHAT THE AREA THEY'RE ACTUALLY BUILDING UPON.

WELL, LET ME GIVE YOU THE DEFINITION OF A LOT BASED ON WHAT'S IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

NOW, A LOT MEANS A PARCEL OF LAND WHOSE BOUNDARIES HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED BY SOME LEGAL INSTRUMENT, SUCH AS A RECORDED DEED OR A RECORDED MAP, AND WHICH IS RECOGNIZED AS A SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY FOR PURPOSES OF TRANSFER OF TITLE, USE OR IMPROVEMENT.

THAT'S OUR DEFINITION WITHIN THE CITY TODAY.

SO I THINK A BUILDING SITE.

WE ARE. OH, OKAY.

BUT SO YOU KNOW, I WAS SAYING EARLIER THAT THAT LOT WAS USED INTERCHANGEABLY WITH BUILDING SITE.

AND ONE OF THE COUNTY'S REFERENCE.

GOT IT. SO WOULD A BUILDING SITE THEN JUST BE A LOT THAT IS PERMITTED TO BE BUILT UPON.

SEE I WOULD INTERPRET IT AS MEANING A LOT THAT IS BEING BUILT UPON.

A BUILDING. AND SO IF IT'S BEING BUILT UPON, IT'S BEEN THROUGH WHATEVER PROCESS.

WELL, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE WE TALK ABOUT LOTS, ALL THE TIME AROUND THE CITY BUILDING SITE.

OH, BUILDING. OH, IF YOU GO WITH BUILDING SITE AND KEEP THE LOT, WOULD YOU SAY A BUILDING SITE IS A PARCEL OF LAND THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR BUILDING? WELL, IF NOBODY'S BUILDING ON IT.

RICHARD, YOU SAID GO BACK, ROLL BACK ABOUT THREE SENTENCES.

[LAUGHTER] WHAT I WAS SAYING TO NICK THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE THOUGHT IT WAS.

OKAY, BUT HE WAS TALKING IN POTENTIALITY.

AND I SAID A BUILDING SITE WOULD BE A SITE THAT IS BEING BUILT UPON SOMEBODY BUILDING ON IT PRESENTLY.

SO IT'S WHEN SOMEBODY'S BUILDING ON IT BECAUSE THE LOT CAN BE THERE FOR 100 YEARS AND NOTHING EVER DONE WITH IT.

BUT THE SITE IS THEN YOU WOULD SAY THERE'S ACTIVITY.

YEAH. YEAH TO IMPROVE IT.

YEAH, I GUESS WE WOULD. AND THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT PERMITS IF REQUIRED HAVE ALL BEEN OBTAINED.

CORRECT. YES.

YES I THINK I WOULD SAY THAT WAS APPROPRIATELY PERMITTED.

IT DIDN'T JUST MAY GO OUT IN YOUR LOT BUILDING A GARAGE AND WITHOUT A PERMIT.

THAT'S RIGHT. MY DEFINITION ASSUMES YEAH IT'S LEGALLY BEING BUILT.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT. LET'S TRY TO PUT THOSE WORDS DOWN BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THAT.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ADDED TO THE LIST OF DEFINITIONS.

I AGREE. SO ALL RIGHT HOW DO WE WANT TO SAY THIS.

WELL I JUST FOUND SOMETHING HERE [INAUDIBLE] IMPORTANT.

[00:30:02]

I DON'T KNOW I HAVEN'T GONE TO THERE YET.

YOU KNOW. WHAT DOES IT SAY? 489 DASH.

WHAT? 489-105B DEFINES IT TALKS ABOUT A BUILDING CONTRACTOR MUST MANAGE AND ORGANIZE ALL FACETS OF A BUILDING SITE.

THEN IT REFERENCES. FLORIDA STATUTE DEFINES THIS AS A CONTRACTOR OR MORE ABOUT A CONTRACTOR THAN [INAUDIBLE] DO NOT SEE.

THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF IN HERE.

BUILDING SITE DOESN'T APPEAR AS OKAY, LET'S TRY TO PUT DOWN WHAT RICHARD.

AND SO I WOULD SAY AND WE'LL LET UP ON THIS, I WOULD SAY SORRY ABOUT THAT. [LAUGHTER] LAND UPON WHICH A HOME OR OTHER BUILDING IS BEING LEGALLY BUILT UPON.

SOMEBODY CAN CLEAN THAT UP QUITE A BIT TO START LAND UPON WHICH A BUILDING, LET'S SAY A HOME OR OTHER BUILDING, A HOME OR COMMERCIAL TOO.

OTHER BUILDING STRUCTURE WHICH AN ACTIVE BUILDING PERMIT EXISTS IS THERE YOU GO.

IS THAT'S GOOD KELLY.

THANKS. WHAT? OKAY.

KELLY SAID SAY IT AGAIN, KELLY.

SAY IT AGAIN. LAND UPON WHICH AN ACTIVE BUILDING PERMIT EXISTS.

THAT SHOULD CAPTURE BECAUSE THAT SAYS IT'S BEEN THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS OF BEING A CAVEAT THAT THOUGH I COULD HAVE A PARKING LOT THAT COULD BE A BUILDING SITE THAT I DON'T HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT FOR, YOU WOULD HAVE AN INFRASTRUCTURE PERMIT, THOUGH.

I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS APPROPRIATELY PERMITTED THROUGH THE LOCAL JURISDICTION OR WHATEVER IT WOULD BE.

OKAY, OKAY. AN ACTIVE PERMIT.

YEAH. OKAY.

THAT KEEPS IT FROM THAT IT LEAVES IT.

THERE'S NO INTERPRETATION.

OKAY. A PERMIT IS IT COULD BE FOR DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO. OKAY. AS FAR AS I CAN SEE, THERE'S NO INTERPRETATION ISSUE, BUT.

OKAY SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO START OVER AGAIN BECAUSE IT STARTED OUT WITH LAND UPON WHICH A HOME OR OTHER BUILDING.

AND THEN WE ADDED UPON WHICH ACTIVE BUILDING PERMIT HAS BEEN OBTAINED.

SO DO WE WANT UPON WHICH AN ACTIVE PERMIT EXISTS? EXISTS YOU NEED A HOME IN THERE? NO. NO NEED HOME IN THERE AT ALL.

SO WE WANT TO SAY A BUILDING, A LAND UPON WHICH A BUILDING.

NO NO NO NO, JUST THE PERMIT.

JUST THE PERMIT. LAND UPON WHICH AN ACTIVE BUILDING PERMIT EXISTS.

ACTIVE PERMIT? AN ACTIVE PERMIT.

AN ACTIVE PERMIT, LIKE YOU SAID, IT COULD BE A PARK LAND UPON WHICH AN ACTIVE PERMIT.

AND WE'VE GOT ONE QUESTION THERE.

HOW WOULD YOU USING THAT TERM IF YOU'RE DOING A PROPOSED BUILDING THAT HASN'T BEEN PERMITTED YET, IT WOULDN'T BE A BUILDING SITE AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE AN ACTIVE BUILDING SITE. WELL, IT'D JUST BE A LOT.

IT'S NOT A BUILDING SITE UNTIL YOU BUILD.

TECHNICALLY THE BUILDING SITE, THERE'S A PLACARD UP IN THE WALL WHICH LISTS THE PERMIT.

RIGHT. THAT'S NOW THAT'S A SILENT ZONE.

YEAH. AND THAT'S THAT'S GOT ALL THE APPROVALS AND EVERYTHING FROM BORDER COUNTY CITY IS LAND UPON WHICH IS LAND THE RIGHT TERM OR SHOULD IT BE LOT OR IS LAND OKAY? LAND IS FINE. LAND IS OKAY.

SO LAND UPON WHICH AN ACTIVE PERMIT EXISTS.

COULD IT BE OVER WATER? NO, NO.

MUST BE ON LAND.

OVER WATER. PARCELS ARE DESCRIBED AS LAND ALSO.

OKAY, SO I THINK WE'VE DONE GOOD ENOUGH ON THAT.

OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

SO SO THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

SO WE'RE OKAY ON THAT ONE.

WETLAND CAN'T BUILD A WETLAND.

SO THAT WOULD BE ONE WE WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST ADDING TO THE LIST OF LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DEFINITIONS OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

ITEM NUMBER THREE WAS CHANGE.

I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THAT ONE.

WE HAVE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS IN THE PAST ABOUT A CHANGE OR A CALL IT MODIFICATION.

AND I'M TRYING TO LOOK AND SEE IF I GET I'M SORRY, A CHANGE OR A CLARIFICATION.

[INAUDIBLE] A TERM OR DESCRIBE THE TERM.

THOSE TWO TERMS ARE SEPARATELY IDENTIFIED IN FLORIDA STATUTES.

BUT WHY WOULD WE ADD A DEFINITION OF CHANGE TO OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT? THIS IS ONE THAT IT CAME UP MORE IN TERMS OF.

[00:35:05]

AND THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAID, NO, IT'S A CHANGE AND THERE IS A DISTINCT DEFINITION BETWEEN THE TWO TERMS. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED IT IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT DO YOU NEED IT IN TERMS OF THE PROCESS OF IF SOMEBODY COMES FORWARD WITH A REQUIREMENT THAT CAUSES US TO HAVE TO MODIFY OR CHANGE OR ALTER WHATEVER SOME PART OF OUR ORDINANCES OR WHATEVER, DO WE NEED TO HAVE THAT TERM IDENTIFIED, THAT PUTS SOME GENERAL BOUNDS ON IT. I THINK I DEFER TO KELLY.

NO, BECAUSE NO, THE INCIDENT THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING WAS, IN MY OPINION, WELL, I KNOW I THINK OBJECTIVELY THE WORD CLARIFY WAS INCORRECTLY USED WHEN THE USER MEANT CHANGE.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

HE ALWAYS MEANT CHANGE.

YES. AND WAS USING CLARIFY TO SOFTEN IT.

YEAH. AND SO I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT.

I THINK IT WAS JUST MISUSED IN THAT EXAMPLE.

YEAH. OKAY.

AND THAT SPEAKER WAS INCORRECT.

SO YEAH.

SO THAT'S A CASE WHERE THE WRONG TERMINOLOGY WAS SELECTED.

THERE YOU GO OKAY.

HAPPENS EVERY DAY OKAY.

OKAY. LET'S STRIKE NUMBER THREE.

AND YOU CAN TAKE OUT FIVE TOO.

AND 5.

OH CLARIFICATION OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. TAKE OUT FIVE TOO.

ALL RIGHT. NEXT ONE IS NUMBER FOUR CITY PLAT.

OKAY. DO WE HAVE A CITY PLAT.

THAT'S A QUESTION I DON'T THINK WE DO.

I DON'T EITHER I THINK IT'S JUST A PLAT.

[INAUDIBLE] DON'T BECAUSE EVERY PLAT IS DESCRIBED SPECIFICALLY OF WHAT THAT PLAT IS, BECAUSE IT IN TURN IS PUT INTO A LEGAL DOCUMENT IN THE COUNTIES.

BUT ISN'T THERE USUALLY WHEN YOU'RE DESCRIBING A PIECE OF PROPERTY, DOESN'T IT SOMETIMES REFER BACK TO THE 18 SOMETHING OR OTHER CITY PLAT? IT REFERS BACK TO THE ULI PLAT OF 18.

WHATEVER IT MAY, IT REFERS BACK TO THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.

IT REFERS ALWAYS REFERS BACK TO THE JURISDICTION IN WHICH IT EXISTS OR WHERE IT WAS REPORTED AT THE TIME.

SO I'M THAT'S REFERRING TO THE JURISDICTION, NOT THE NAME OF THE PLAT.

FOR ANY INSTANT IN TIME AND THINGS EVOLVE.

THERE IS A PLAT OF RECORD SOMEWHERE THAT DEFINES THE CITY OF FERNANDINA IN ITS TOTAL ENTITY.

I MEAN, IT'S INCREMENTALLY DONE.

BECAUSE WE'RE ALWAYS ADDING NEW PARCELS, RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT. WHAT I'M SAYING IS, BUT IF I TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH OF IT, SO TO SPEAK, AN ELECTRONIC PHOTOGRAPH, TODAY THERE IS A PLAT THAT DEFINES FERNANDINA BEACH. THERE'S A BUNCH OF PLATS, A BUNCH OF PLATS.

THERE'S NOT ONE. IT'S NOT A SINGLE IT'S NOT A SINGLE.

AGGREGATE. IT'S AN AGGREGATION OF NUMEROUS PLATS.

OKAY. SEE IT ALWAYS.

IT ALWAYS STARTS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, BLAH BLAH BLAH GETS DOWN TO THE COUNTY'S SPECIFIC PLAT.

OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SAY CITY, YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S NO SUCH THING.

SO CITY PLANT IS ANOTHER CASE WHERE THE TERM IS NOT APPROPRIATE OKAY.

IT'S MORE DESCRIPTIVE.

IT'S MORE NO, IT'S JUST I MEAN, TO ME.

IT'S JUST THE TITLE OF A PLAT.

THAT'S ALL IT IS. IT IS THE TITLE FOR THAT LAND AREA UNDER WHICH THERE IS THE PLAT, IF YOU WILL, THE 1901 PLAT.

IT IS A TITLE ONLY.

YEAH. AND THERE YOU DON'T GO FIND A CITY PLAT THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

YEAH. THAT'S LIKE THAT.

YEAH. IT WOULD BE A MILLION BLUFF.

THE PLAT OF A AMELIA BLUFF WHERE THE PLAT OF OCEAN BREEZE OR OCEAN OAKS OR AMELIA PARK.

THEY ALL HAVE A NAME AND SO AND SOME OF THEM MAY BE A PLAT OF BLOCK FOUR OF SECTION 14 OF THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH.

COULD I HAVE A I SEE I'M TRYING TO THINK HOW DO WE DEFINE THE BUSINESS DISTRICT IN DOWNTOWN? CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT? YEAH. IS THAT A PLAT? NO, THAT WAS AN OLD PLAT.

YEAH. 1901 CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH PLAT.

OKAY. AND 1857.

ALL RIGHT. BUT IT'S JUST. IT WAS REVISED.

IT'S JUST IT'S JUST THE CBD IS WHAT IT'S.

NO, NO, BECAUSE IT EXTENDS BEYOND THAT.

THE CBD IS LAND USE OR.

YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT.

AREA DEFINED. IT'S AN AREA, BUT THE CBD CAN HAVE MULTIPLE ZONINGS WITHIN IT.

RIGHT. THE CBD CAN ONLY HAVE C THREE ZONING DISTRICT TIED TO IT.

THE PLAT OF FERNANDINA MAY HAVE REVISED VINYL PLOTS WITHIN IT.

YES. AND REPLATS? YES. SUFFICE TO SAY, THERE IS NO CITY PLAN.

[00:40:01]

WE HAVE IT OR SHOULD WE BE USING IT, RIGHT? BUT PEOPLE DO USE IT ALL THE TIME.

BUT IT'S ONLY IN REFERENCE TO WHAT THEY'RE DESCRIBING AS IN TITLE TO THE PLOT OF FERNANDINA.

AND TYPICALLY THEY'RE REFERRING TO AN AREA THAT IS LARGELY THE BASICALLY LIKE 14TH STREET.

AND REALLY, THAT'S ALMOST TOO FAR.

14TH STREET TO THE WATER AND THEN ESCAMBIA TO LIME.

SO JUST GENERALLY.

YEAH.

THERE'S REVISED AND THERE'S MULTIPLE FLATS IN THAT AREA TO OFFSET SOME.

OKAY. SO WE JUST THAT WAS USED IN SOME DRAFT TERMINOLOGY.

THAT'S THE KEY DRAFT.

WELL LIKE YOU SAID THINGS GET USED WRONG INCORRECTLY.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S GOOD TO FIND THESE THINGS AND POINT THEM OUT, RIGHT? YEAH. I MEAN, WE DON'T IF WE DON'T USE IT, WE DON'T NEED THE DEFINITION FOR IT.

YEAH. IT DOESN'T DESCRIBE ANYTHING.

IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A VALID IT'S NOT A THING.

NO, IT'S NOT A THING.

YOU'RE JUST YOU'RE PUTTING AN ADJECTIVE IN FRONT OF A PLAT.

OKAY. A PLAT WE KNOW.

AND THAT'S AS DEFINED BY THE CITY PLANNER, COUNTY PLANNER, SAINT AUGUSTINE PLANNER.

SO WE'RE GOING TO STRIKE NUMBER FOUR.

YEAH. OKAY.

AS FAR AS I GET I GUESS.

AND TYPICALLY WHEN THEY USE THIS TERM, I FEEL I'LL PREFACE THAT WITH THE NAME OF THE PLAT.

AH GOOD POINT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE KNOW, RIGHT.

THAT INTERPRETATION IT MAKES IT SPECIFIC.

OKAY. THE ULI PLAT, THE ORANGE BLOSSOM PLAT, WHATEVER PLAT.

BECAUSE THEN BEHIND THAT YOU'LL FINALLY FIND A BUNCH OF NUMBERS WHICH THEN TELL YOU WHERE TO GO TO LOOK IT UP SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT.

OKAY. AND WHEN WE SAY ULI, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A MAN.

WELL, I'M JUST BECAUSE THAT'S A.

GOTCHA. I CALL IT THE ULI PLAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S IT'S THE PLAT OF WHEN THERE'S NO SUCH THING. YEAH.

I GUESS IS. YEAH.

OKAY. SO.

A PLAT THAT HE FILED WITH THE COUNTY IN NASSAU COUNTY THAT HE CALLED THE CITY OF FERNANDINA.

WHAT'S THE ORIGINAL PLAT? CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH OR SOMETHING ELSE? THE OLD ONE, RIGHT? RIGHT, RIGHT.

BECAUSE HE SHOWED UP AND HE HAD ALL THIS LAND, AND HE SAID, I'M GOING TO CALL IT FERNANDINA.

AND HE PLATTED IT OUT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THE BEACH UNTIL.

1951, I THINK 50, 51.

NOW WE KEEP CHANGING IT BY ADDING MORE AND MORE PLATS.

ALL RIGHT. SO AGAIN, WE'RE STRIKING NUMBER FOUR CITY PLAZA.

RIGHT. AND WE AGREED TO STRIKE FIVE CLARIFICATION.

ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE AT NUMBER SIX LOT.

THOSE BOTH ARE DEFINED IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.

ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO TO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE UNDER TECHNICALLY IT IS FERNANDINA.

OCEAN CITY, CITRONA AND CASHION.

ORIGINAL PLAT MADE IN 1857, REVISED AND ENLARGED AND REISSUED IN NOVEMBER OF 1887, AND AGAIN REVISED IN JULY 1901 BY THE BOARD OF TOWN IMPROVEMENT COMPANY.

THAT IS THAT PLAT, WHICH HAS BEEN REVISED THROUGH REPLATS.

RIGHT. FOR THAT AREA DEFINED? WELL, NOT ALL OF IT.

JUST SOME OF IT.

ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE LOOKING AT LOT AND UNDER THAT IT HAS 1,2,3,4,5,6 SUB PARAGRAPHS.

IT SAYS, YOU WANT ME TO READ IT? GO AHEAD.

IT SAYS LOT MEANS A PARCEL OF LAND WHOSE BOUNDARIES HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED BY SOME LEGAL INSTRUMENT, SUCH AS A RECORDED DEED OR A RECORDED MAP, AND WHICH IS RECOGNIZED AS A SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY FOR PURPOSES OF TRANSFER OF TITLE, USE OR IMPROVEMENT.

AND THAT'S RIGHT OUT OF A PAGE.

I DON'T KNOW THE PAGE.

CHAPTER ONE. WHICH IS A GOOD DEFINITION TO ME.

I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS BROUGHT UP AS AN ISSUE, BUT IT WAS SO I JUST I SAID, LET'S PUT IT IN THERE.

BUT I WONDER IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE WAS, WHEN MARK WAS READING THAT, I WONDER IF IT CAME UP IN RELATION TO PARCEL.

MARK WROTE A DEFINITION, SAID WHAT IS A PARCEL? IS A PARCEL A LOT? IT MEANS THE PARCEL PROBABLY COULD HAVE SAID THAT IT SOUNDS PROFANE.

[00:45:05]

THAT'S THE ONLY TIME HERE I CAN REMEMBER THOSE THINGS.

WELL. AND I THINK IT BRINGS UP THE QUESTION, LIKE YOU SAID, IF A LOT MEANS A PARCEL, DOES A PARCEL MEAN A LOT? WELL, IT MEANS A LOT MEANS A PARCEL OF LAND, RIGHT? WHICH IS THE TERM IN ITSELF.

NOT JUST A PARCEL, BUT A PARCEL OF LAND.

OKAY. PARCEL CAN BE DEFINED SEPARATELY.

WHAT SHOULD IT.

I THINK IT SHOULD, YES.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

NOW IT SAYS THAT IT IS A LEGAL INSTRUMENT, SUCH AS A RECORDED DEED OR A RECORDED MAP, WHICH IS RECOGNIZED AS A SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY FOR THE PURPOSE OF TRANSFER OF TITLE, USE OR IMPROVEMENT.

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE CAN THINK OF TO IMPROVE UPON THAT DEFINITION? YOU GOT ANYTHING, KELLY? I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE TERM.

OKAY. SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO ADD? PARCEL OF LAND AS A NEW.

NO. WELL, NO.

IT'S THE IT SAYS LOT MEANS A PARCEL OF LAND.

OKAY. BECAUSE LET ME JUST ADD OKAY, THE LOT IS SPECIFIC TO A PIECE OF LAND.

SO IN ALL PLATS I WOULD THINK THAT'S CORRECT.

ALL PLATS USUALLY DESCRIBE THEM BY LOT AND BLOCK OKAY.

SO AND USUALLY YOU SAY LOT SO AND SO AND BLOCK SO AND SO AND BLAH BLAH WHATEVER IT IS OKAY.

THAT GETS YOU TO THE SPECIFIC PARCEL.

THAT'S WHAT THE TERM LOT IS DESCRIBED OR MEAN TO BE DONE WITH IT.

SO SINGLE PARCEL PIECE OF PROPERTY.

ALL RIGHT. SO IF I WERE TO TAKE LET ME TAKE SOMETHING LIKE HIGHLAND DUNES OKAY.

AND THAT WAS ALL THAT WAS NEW.

BUT ANYWAY THIS PARCEL WAS PLATTED.

ALL RIGHT. BUT THAT PART OF A PARCEL WOULD BE LIKE LOT NUMBER 33.

LOT 33 IS DEFINED EVEN IN THE COUNTIES.

WELL, WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH THAT PIECE WHEN YOU HIT YOUR DEFINITION OF WHAT A PARCEL IS, YOUR HIGHLAND DUNES.

BECAUSE I DID THAT ONE.

OKAY. IT WAS A, IT WAS A LEGAL DESCRIPTION.

THAT WAS A METES AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTION OF EIGHT ACRES OR WHATEVER THE SIZE WAS.

THAT WAS A PARCEL OF LAND.

OKAY. SO THAT WAS ALL WHEN THE CHURCH OWNED THAT WHOLE THE CHURCH OWNED IT.

YEAH. THEY CARVED OUT THAT PIECE AND HAD A PARCEL OF LAND THAT YOU THEN PLATTED OVER AND CREATED LOTS OR LOTS OF RECORD.

RIGHT. THAT'S PART OF A PLAT.

BUT THAT LOT NUMBER LIKE 10 OR 20 OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER HAPPENS TO BE, I DON'T THINK IT WAS A PREVIOUSLY PLATTED BEFORE THAT, BUT I MAY BE WRONG.

I'M NOT I DON'T THINK IT WAS.

I KNOW THAT, BUT THEY'RE ALL LARGE LOOK.

LARGE LOTS. SO THERE ARE, IN FACT ON THAT LAND.

IS THAT ONE PLAT OF FERNANDINA.

BUT THEY'RE JUST THEY'RE REALLY BIG LOTS.

YEAH. WHICH MAY HAVE SINGLE OWNERSHIP FOR MANY, MANY BLOCKS.

AND IN HIGHLAND DUNES CASE, IT PROBABLY WASN'T EXACTLY 2 OR 3 OF THOSE LOTS.

IT WAS A COMBINATION OF A BUNCH OF THEM.

SO THAT WOULD BE A PARCEL.

SO I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DEFINE PARCEL.

I THINK A LOT IS BEAUTIFUL ACTUALLY.

THIS IS THE BEST DEFINITION I'VE SEEN.

FOR WHAT. A LOT.

FOR LOT. I THINK LOT IS FINE.

ALL RIGHT. WHAT ABOUT THESE SUBPARAGRAPHS ON HERE DO THIS DESCRIBES, I GUESS A CORNER LOT, DOUBLE FRONTAGE, INTERIOR LOT.

WELL, THE ONLY ONE THAT CAME UP IS AN ISSUE WAS A LOT OF RECORD AND THAT IS DEFINED IN THERE.

THAT'S ITEM FIVE.

NO, THOSE ARE ALL GOOD TO ME.

YEAH. THESE TOOK YEARS TO DEVELOP.

I'LL TELL YOU THAT. THAT'S THE REASON I WANT TO TELL EVERYBODY.

HEY, THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE LDC ON IT.

SO IT WAS A MATTER OF, YEAH, IF WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT AS BEING CURRENT VERBIAGE THAT IS ACCURATE AND WE DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING.

ABSOLUTELY. IF WE'RE OKAY, TELL ME WHEN PETER BRINGS THAT UP THAT IF WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, THESE WHO ARE THESE DEFINITIONS THE SAME IN ORLANDO AS THEY ARE HERE? NO PROBABLY NOT, PROBABLY NOT.

I MEAN, I'VE NEVER CHECKED, BUT SO THESE AREN'T THESE ARE SPECIFIC TO FERNANDINA.

YES. OKAY.

WELL THEY'RE USING OTHER CITIES AND MUNICIPALITIES AND WHATEVER FOR AS TERMED.

YEAH, IT MAY BE DEFINED DIFFERENTLY OR THAT'S.

YEAH. BUT THEN A LOT OF THE STUFF IS DEFINED THE SAME WAY.

RIGHT. NICK WOULD YOU AGREE WITH IT.

IT'S SIMILAR.

YEAH.

[00:50:03]

SCRATCH THROAT. OKAY.

SAY THE SAME THING ON SEVEN WOULDN'T YOU AGREE.

SEVEN A LOT OF LOT OF RECORD.

I THINK IT'S ALREADY DONE.

YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT A LOT OF RECORDS.

IT HASN'T CAUSED ANY ISSUES.

SO WHICH IS A LOT WHICH IS A PART OF A SUBDIVISION.

WELL IS IT, IS IT A TRUE SUBDIVISION OR CAN IT BE JUST OVER TIME? LOTS. A BLOCK HAS BEEN DIVIDED UP INTO INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS.

ONCE IT'S PLATTED, IT BECOMES A LOT.

YOU HAVE A PARCEL OF LAND THAT THEN IS SUBDIVIDED INTO LOTS.

I THOUGHT A SUBDIVISION HAD TO HAVE THREE OR MORE LOTS.

WELL, THAT'S A DIFFERENT WELL, AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS CONFUSING.

IT'S A PARCEL OF LAND, CONTAINS MULTIPLE LOTS WITHIN IT, BUT A SUB.

THE TERM SUBDIVISION IN MODERN USAGE IS A SUBDIVISION LIKE WE'RE ALL THINKING OF.

IT'S NOT A PUD, BUT IT'S A.

CREATION OF THREE LOTS OR MORE.

YES. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE THE DEFINITION OR IN THE DEFINITION OF A LOT OF RECORD.

NO, I AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE IT'S SAYING THAT IT'S PART OF A SUBDIVISION, THE MAP OF WHICH HAS BEEN RECORDED BY THE CLERK.

IT'S NOT SAYING THAT IT IT'S SAYING THAT IT IS A LOT THAT IS PART OF A SUBDIVISION.

BUT AGAIN, WHEN YOU USE THE TERM SUBDIVISION, IT MEANS THAT IT'S PART OF ANOTHER ENTITY.

IT IS AND IT IS.

BUT I THINK YOU CAN HAVE A LOT OF RECORD WHICH IS NOT PART OF A SUBDIVISION.

WOULD IT BE BETTER TO USE THE WORD PLAT INSTEAD OF SUBDIVISION? NO, NO. IT WOULDN'T.

YOU MAY NOT HAVE A PLAT.

THAT'S RIGHT. YOU WOULDN'T.

YEAH. THE LOT THE APPROPRIATE TERM WOULD BE SOME SUBDIVISION OF SOMETHING WHICH HAS BEEN RECORDED, WHETHER THAT IS A FORMAL PLOT OR SOME OTHER MECHANISM TO HAVE RECORDED THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF LAND.

BUT WHEN IT WAS SUBDIVIDED FROM A LARGER PARCEL, JUST AGAIN, I GET WHAT YOU JUST SAID, AND THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME.

SUBDIVISION. YOU SUBDIVIDE IT, BUT BY USING THE TERM SUBDIVISION, WE'RE TRYING TO THINK OF CLARIFICATION.

WHEN YOU SAY IT IS PART OF A SUBDIVISION IN TODAY'S WORLD, YOU THINK IT'S PART OF THAT, BUT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE REST OF IT OR MAP IT, WHICH HAS BEEN A MAP OF WHICH HAS BEEN RECORDED.

YOU HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE SENTENCE.

I KNOW YOU JUST CAN'T TAKE.

OKAY, LET'S.

AND THEN WHEN YOU GO DOWN TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE AND PULL THE PLAT AND NOT THE CLERK, THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S OFFICE, THEY'LL PULL THE PLAT OUT.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SUBDIVISION BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY THAT LOT HAS BEEN SUBDIVIDED OUT OF A LARGER PARCEL.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, DICK? YEAH. I MEAN, I SEE BOTH SIDES OF IT, I DON'T THINK HERE'S OUR DEFINITION OF SUBDIVISION IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TODAY.

SUBDIVISION MEANS THE DIVISION OF A PARCEL OF LAND INTO THREE OR MORE LOTS OR PARCELS, EITHER BY PLAT INTO LOTS AND BLOCKS, OR BY METERS AND BOUNDS, BUT DESCRIBING OR DESCRIPTION FOR THE PURPOSE OF TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP OR DEVELOPMENT OR USE.

BUT IT IS NOT THAT EXCLUDES THE INDIVIDUAL LOT IN BLOCK.

SO I THINK WHAT IF I CAN I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT IS I THINK I'M TRANSLATING, I BELIEVE WE WHEN WE USE THE WORD SUBDIVISION, WE MEAN I'LL DO [INAUDIBLE] WHERE I LIVE.

THAT'S A SUBDIVISION.

YEP. BUT WE ALSO MEAN THAT WHEN SOMEBODY WANTS TO CUT UP LOTS IN THE TRINGALI NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY ARE TAKING A BIG LOT AND MAKING IT INTO SMALLER LOTS OR PARCELS, OR.

THEY ARE SUBDIVIDING.

SUBDIVIDING THAT PROPERTY.

AND SO THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

ONE IN COMMON USAGE.

AND I MEAN, I KNOW I'VE READ THROUGH THINGS BEFORE US AND IT SAYS SUBDIVISION.

I GET TO GO, OH NO, THAT MEANS THIS, NOT THIS.

RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING, THAT WE NEED TO CLARIFY THAT.

WELL, IF MY MIND REMEMBERS CORRECTLY, I BELIEVE THAT PART OF THAT WAS PUT IN THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT SUBDIVISIONS HAD TO CONTAIN AT LEAST THREE LOTS.

YEAH, YEAH. OKAY.

AS A MINIMUM, IN ORDER TO HAVE A SUBDIVISION.

OKAY. SO THERE WAS NICK, YOU PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS THAN I DO, BUT WELL READ THE TERM.

READ THE DEFINITION OF YEAH I'M GOING TO TAKE.

[00:55:03]

YEAH. THEY WOULDN'T TECHNICALLY THE ONE COULD ARGUE THAT THEY'RE NOT A LOT OF RECORD BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PART OF A SUBDIVISION, BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST A LOT SPLIT, BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT SPLIT.

SO WHAT IF WE DID CHANGE IT TO SAY, WHICH HAS BEEN SUBDIVIDED? I THINK THAT'S THE WAY TO SAY IT.

A LOT OF. WELL, BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN ALL INSTANCES HAS IT BEEN SUBDIVIDED.

IT COULD BE A LOT OF RECORD.

TODAY. IT'S SAYING AND I SUGGEST JUST USE THE WORD DIVIDED.

DIVIDED. RIGHT.

BUT IT WOULD BE ALSO DESCRIBED IN THE PUBLIC RECORD.

IT WOULD LOT TEN OR THAT THE 25FT OF WEST, HALF OF LOT TEN RIGHT. SO BUT THIS IS FOR TRINGALI.

THEY'RE JUST DIVIDING.

IF YOU'RE BUILDING PLAYA DEL [INAUDIBLE] YOU'RE BUILDING A SUBDIVISION, YOU'RE TAKING BECAUSE YOU'RE FILING A PLAT FOR, THEY WOULD BE FILING A PLAT FOR TRENGALI, WHICH WOULD BE A SUBDIVISION, RIGHT? YEAH. SO IT'D BE THE SAME AS YOURS.

WHICH IS A REPLAT.

IT'S JUST A LOT. IF YOU HAD A, AGAIN, AN INDIVIDUAL PARCEL OF LAND AND SOMEBODY BOUGHT THAT, THAT'S THEIR LOT.

AND IT IS NOT PART OF AN [INAUDIBLE] OR ANY KIND OF SUBDIVISION, THEN THAT IS NOT A LOT OF RECORD. IT'S JUST A PARCEL OF LAND.

NO IT IS, IT WOULD BE.

HOW BUT HOW DO YOU DICTATE RIGHT NOW THE DEFINITION SAYS THAT IT HAS TO BE PART OF A SUBDIVISION.

IS PART OF A SUBDIVISION AND A LOT OF RECORD.

I THINK THAT YOU'RE WE'RE MISSING THE DEFINITION OF THE INDIVIDUAL LOT.

WELL, IF YOU FOLLOW YOU KNOW, YOUR LOGIC BACK, YOU'LL GET TO THE SUBDIVISION.

RIGHT? YOU WILL AT THAT POINT.

YOU WILL, YOU WILL.

SO HERE IT IS.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO.

WHAT'S THAT. YOU'LL GET THERE BECAUSE.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL PLAT, YOU'LL FIND WHERE YOU'LL END UP WITH A PART OF A LOT. THAT WAS BLOCK 160 AT ONE POINT DESCRIBED IN THAT CASE, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT IT IS BY LENGTH AND WIDTH IN MEASUREMENT THAT WILL DEFINE THAT PARTICULAR LOT.

AND A REALLY IMPORTANT TERM THAT WE HAVE IN OUR CURRENT DEFINITION IS AS OF THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, SUPER IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT HAS A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS ON WHAT WE HONOR AND DO NOT HONOR.

IF SOMEBODY WERE TO ILLEGALLY START DIVIDING LAND, LET ME ADD I'M ON THE SAINT AUGUSTINE CODE AND IT SAYS A LOT OF RECORD IS A LOT THAT IS PART OF A SUBDIVISION, THE MAP OF WHICH HAS BEEN RECORDED IN THE OFFICE OF THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT OF SAINT JOHNS COUNTY.

SO THEY HAVE THE SIMILAR AND WE MIRROR THEM IN A LOT OF WAYS.

SO MAYBE, MAYBE I'LL MAKE IT MORE OF IT THAN IT NEEDS TO.

MAYBE WE OUGHT TO STICK WITH THAT.

LET ME JUST ASK.

MAYBE JUST. AND I GOT TO AGREE WITH IT.

MAYBE MAYBE WE'RE JUST TALKING.

IT'S MAYBE THE HISTORICAL TERMINOLOGY IS THE CORRECT TERMINOLOGY IN THE SENSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING.

ON EIGHTH STREET, THAT LOT NEXT TO ADVANCED AUTO OR RUSTY PIG IS SUPPOSED TO BE GOING.

IS THAT JUST A LOT, OR IS THAT A SUB? WAS THAT SUBDIVIDED FROM SOMETHING ELSE? PROBABLY SUBDIVIDED FROM SOMETHING ELSE.

IT WAS. IT WAS SPLIT.

YEAH, IT WAS SUBDIVIDED.

WE DID THAT ONE. YEAH.

WHICH IS PART.

IT WAS PART OF A LARGER SAME EXACT THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

JUST MARK, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO.

BACK TO THE PLAT. OKAY.

SO IF YOU TAKE THE PAPERWORK BACK FAR ENOUGH, YOU'LL FIND A PLAT.

YOU'LL FIND IT. RIGHT.

AND IF YOU GO FAR ENOUGH, YOU'LL SEE THE STATE OF FLORIDA WAS PURCHASED FROM SPAIN IN WHENEVER.

OKAY, OKAY. WHICH IS WHERE EVERYTHING STARTS IN FLORIDA.

IF THE YEAH. BUT IS THAT IS BY LEAVING IT THE WAY IT IS IS THAT.

YOU COULD. WE COULD.

THAT'S OKAY.

AND SO LEAVING SUBDIVISION AS THE MODERN TERM IS BETTER THAN CHANGING IT, IT'S STILL DESCRIBING.

PART OF A SUBDIVISION IS WE JUST READ A SUBDIVISION IS THREE LOTS, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

THAT'S NOT WHAT A LOT OF RECORD IS.

THAT IS DEFINING A PROCESS FOR WHICH YOU GO ABOUT DIVIDING LAND TODAY, UNDER THE CODE THAT IS GIVING YOU THE STEPS TO ACCOMPLISH THAT

[01:00:08]

OKAY. BUT THAT'S SO WHAT IS AN INDIVIDUAL PARCEL OR AN INDIVIDUAL LOT THEN? IS IT NOT A LOT OF RECORD? YES, A LOT IS A RECORD.

IT COULD BE, BUT IT COULD CONTAIN MULTIPLE LOTS OF RECORD TO A PARCEL MAY CONTAIN MORE THAN ONE.

WELL, NOW YOU.

I WANT TO I WANT TO GET AWAY FROM PARCEL.

AT THIS POINT, I JUST WANT TO SAY IF YOU A LOT IS A LOT.

USUALLY A SINGLE DESCRIBED PARCEL BY SOME LEGAL MEANS.

OKAY, OKAY. SO BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT'S GOT TO BE PART OF A SUBDIVISION.

WELL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT SOME POINT BECAUSE IT HAD TO BE SUBDIVIDED FROM THAT.

THAT'S DEFINED. BUT THAT'S THE, THE WORD IS WHAT I'M HAVING THE PROBLEM WITH.

THE SUBDIVISION WORD IS NOT A PROBLEM.

THAT'S JUST BECAUSE IT DESCRIBES A TERM BODY.

AND IT WAS AND IT IS.

BUT THEY'RE NOT THINKING OF THE WAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU KNOW, IN LEGAL TERMS, THIS IS FINE.

IF A LEGAL TERM, YOU'RE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO CONVINCE YOU OTHERWISE THAT.

SO WHEN THE AVERAGE PERSON RUNS ACROSS THAT SOMEONE HAS TO EXPLAIN THE JARGON TO THEM.

THAT'S WHY THEY GO TO PLANNERS.

THAT'S WHY WE ALL HAVE JOBS.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW JARGON THAT RELATES TO THIS.

BUT I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

BUT THAT'S WHAT IT IS NOW.

NOW, TECHNICALLY, A LOT OF RECORD MIGHT HAVE MISSED IT BASICALLY SAYS EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SO UNTIL 2006 IT'S KIND OF MUTUAL BECAUSE, WELL, THERE WAS SOMETHING BEFORE THEN IT WAS.

YEAH. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IF YOU TAKE THE DEFINITION OF A LOT OF RECORD BECAME EFFECTIVE IN 2006.

RIGHT. SO ANYTHING PRIOR TO THAT, WHATEVER LDC WAS IN PLACE, IT KIND OF IF YOU JUST GO BACK TO THIS BASIC TERM OF LOT, IT'S A PARCEL OF LAND BOUNDARIES HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED BY SOME LEGAL INSTRUMENT WHICH WILL CHANGE OVER TIME AS, A RECORDED DEED OR RECORDED MAP, AND WHICH IS RECOGNIZED AS A SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY FOR PURPOSES OF TRANSFER OF TITLE, USE AND APPROVAL.

SO IF YOU CAN GET TITLE INSURANCE ON IT, IT'S FREE AND CLEAR.

SO WHICH HAS NOTHING TO IT.

SO WHY DO YOU EVEN HAVE LOT OF RECORD? IT DOES INDIRECTLY.

SO WHAT DOES LOT OF RECORD DO FOR YOU? IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD.

IT RELATES TO OTHER PORTIONS OF THE CODE WHERE IT'S BEING UTILIZED.

AND PEOPLE IN THE PAST HAVE SAID WE NEED A TERM FOR LOT OF RECORD.

WHY? WHAT IS WHAT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS.

YOU HAVE A LOT AND THEN YOU HAVE SEVEN TOTAL TIMES IN THE CODE.

A LOT OF RECORD. I THINK SO.

SO ALL RIGHT. SO LOOK AT A LEGAL THING.

LOOK AT NUMBER ONE.

THE I MEAN B ONE THE TOTAL BUILDING AREA.

THIS IS UNDER ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT.

UNDER ACCESSORY BUILDING.

UNIT. THE TOTAL BUILDING AREA MUST NOT EXIST AS A AND ONLY ONE ACCESSORY DWELLING IS PERMITTED PER LOT OF RECORD.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST SAY PER LOT? BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE MULTIPLE LOTS OF RECORD ON THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING AREA FOR WHICH THAT I ONE USE OR AN I A USE IS OCCURRING WHICH WOULD ALLOW THEM MULTIPLE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS TO EXIST. PURSUANT TO THESE TERMS. IT'S JUST THAT WE USE IT IN OUR CODE.

AND I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IT'S GOT A CLEAR MEANING WE HAVE TO LEGALLY DESCRIBE ALL THIS PROPERTY.

OKAY. AND THAT IS IN THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S CLERK OF COURTS OFFICE.

THOSE ARE ALL OUR LEGAL DOCUMENTS OR HELP A LOT OF RECORD IN THERE IS A BOOK THAT SHOWS THE LOTS OF RECORD.

EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE STATE OF FLORIDA IS GOING TO BE IN SOMEWHERE, OR PROBABLY IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY.

AND THAT'S ALL THIS IS SAYING.

IT'S GOT TO BE A LOT OF RECORD.

[01:05:02]

SO WHEN YOU SAY A LOT OF RECORD, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, WHERE YOU HAVE A LOT AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SOMEBODY SAYS, WELL, I'M GOING TO LET YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, HALF OF THIS LOT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO WITH IT BUT THAT LOT OF RECORD DOESN'T CHANGE.

IF THEY'RE GOING TO SPLIT IT OFF, THEY'RE GOING TO SPLIT OFF SOME PORTION OF IT AND THAT WILL BE LEGALLY DESCRIBED.

BUT WHAT IF IT'S NOT LEGALLY DESCRIBED? IT'S LET ME INTERJECT ON THIS.

I THINK THE WHOLE DIFFERENCE IS THIS.

AND I'M LOOKING AT SAINT AUGUSTINE'S AND IT MIRRORS OURS LOT JUST SAYS IN SAINT AUGUSTINE TERM'S A DESIGNATED PARCEL TRACT OR AREA OF LAND ESTABLISHED BY PLAT SUBDIVISION OR OTHERWISE ALLOWED BY LAW.

IT DOESN'T SAY IT WAS RECORDED.

HOWEVER, WHEN YOU GO TO A LOT OF RECORDS, IT SAYS A LOT THAT WAS A SUBDIVISION, A MAP WHICH HAS BEEN RECORDED IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF SAINT JOHN'S COUNTY.

IF WE GO TO OURS, A LOT OF RECORD REFERENCES RECORDING LOT IS NOT SO RECORDING.

AND SO THE RECORDING YOUR RECORD MEANS IT WAS ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY RECORDED THAT WAY AT THE CLERK, THE CLERK'S CIRCUIT COURT. YES.

WHEREAS THE LOT DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.

BUT IT'S THAT'S THE WAY I READ THOSE DEFINITIONS IN SAINT AUGUSTINE IS IDENTICAL TO THAT.

SO SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RECORDED IN THE OFFICE OF THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT VERSUS THE DEFINITION, SAYING THAT IT IS A LEGAL INSTRUMENT, SUCH AS A RECORDED DEED OR RECORDED MAP, WHICH IS RECOGNIZED AS A SEPARATE LEGAL ENTITY? I HAVE NO IDEA. WASN'T IT THAT IT'S RECORDED THERE? PEOPLE SMARTER THAN ME PROBABLY CAME UP WITH THAT TERM BECAUSE THERE'S A WAY AROUND IT.

THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE.

YEAH. OKAY. LET ME I WOULD JUST CLARIFY THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE.

OKAY. WELL AND ACTUALLY WHAT NICK JUST ADDED THERE ABOUT TO SAY THAT IT IS BEEN RECORDED IN THE CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT ACTUALLY DOES MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO GIVE IT SOME OFFICIAL TITLE THAT SAYS THIS IS A LEGAL BEEN RECORDED DOCUMENT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME WAY OF KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.

I GOT A QUESTION, NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN FLORIDA AND YOU CAN GO.

ARE YOU LEAVING? NO, NO, NO.

OKAY. I GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU AND NICK.

I JUST UNDERSTAND I'M.

I THINK I'M COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

LET ME WAIT UNTIL HE COMES BACK.

I'LL ASK THE QUESTION.

OKAY. IT'S SOMETHING I ACTUALLY WAS INVOLVED IN.

SO I WANT TO SEE I THINK I'M COMFORTABLE.

I'M NOW COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

GOOD. OKAY. WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS.

I'M NOT I'M SURE.

YEAH, I GET IT.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I HAVE A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND THAN YOU DO.

AND APPRAISAL.

THE FIRST PLACE WE GO TO IN APPRAISAL, THE FIRST PLACE WE GO TO IS THE PROPERTY APPRAISERS WEBSITE DATABASE TO FIND OUT HOW A PIECE OF PROPERTY IS THAT TERM PROPERTY IS RECORDED.

OKAY. AND THEN THROUGH THAT WE CAN SEE HOW IT WAS PURCHASED.

WE PULL UP THE DEED, WE CAN DO EVERYTHING, FIND OUT HOW THAT PERSON GOT THAT PROPERTY.

AND IN SOME PLACES WHEN THEY USED TO HAVE WHAT'S THE TERM THEY USED TO HAVE WHERE YOU HAD THE WHOLE BOOK OF EVERYTHING THEY USED TO.

NOW YOU GO TO THEY USED TO GIVE YOU.

THE LIKE A RECORD.

AND OUR GUIDE.

THE WHAT? I KNOW THEY HAVE THESE GIANT BOOKS UPSTAIRS.

YEAH, WELL, AT ONE TIME, EVERYBODY GOT THE WHOLE BOOK OF THE WHOLE HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY, AND THAT GOT PASSED DOWN TO THE NEXT PERSON.

AND IT ALL STARTED AT THE VERY TOP IN THE BEGINNING.

FLORIDA WAS PURCHASED FROM SPAIN.

OKAY. I'M NOT BUT THAT BUT THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF THE ENTIRE STATE WAS SPAIN.

AND THEN FLORIDA PURCHASED THAT, RIGHT? OKAY, LET ME ASK.

ALL RIGHT. I BUILT A HOUSE AND IT HAD ACTUALLY, THIS IS FOR YOU.

OH, SORRY. YEAH. I JUST WANT TO SEE HOW WE TIE THIS INTO.

OKAY. I BUILD A HOUSE ON, IN EFFECT, THREE PIECES OF PROPERTY.

THERE WAS A 50 FOOT CENTER LOT, AND I PURCHASED 25FT OF LOT ON ONE SIDE, 25FT ON THE OTHER SIDE.

[01:10:02]

NOW THE LOT OF RECORD IS THAT NEW 100.

IT WAS ACTUALLY 100 BY 100.

BUT YOUR LEGAL DESCRIPTION WOULD BE THE 50 FOOT LOT PLUS ONE HALF OF THE 25 FOOT LOT PLUS THE OTHER HALF.

ALL RIGHT. THAT'S AND THAT IS THE WAY THE DOCUMENT ACTUALLY SPELLED IT OUT.

THAT'S THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION OKAY.

SO THAT IS ONE LOT NOW WHICH IS NOW THE LOT OF RECORD.

YEAH. WELL YEAH IT WOULD BE THE LOT OF WHICH YOU'RE BUILDING UPON THAT WOULD BECOME THAT NEW LOT.

RIGHT. OF RECORD BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE A HOUSE BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED THEY FAIL TO RECORD THE CENTRAL LOT THE 50 FOOT LOT.

AND THAT HAPPENS QUITE OFTEN.

YEAH. BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

BUT ANYWAY, SO, SO THAT 100 FOOT BY 100 FOOT, THAT IS THE LOT OF RECORD AS OF DOCUMENTATION, BUT IT'S MADE UP OF THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION WOULD BE THE 25 PLUS ONE HALF PLUS 25FT OF 150.

THAT WOULD NEVER CHANGE.

OKAY. YEAH. AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THAT'LL BE IN YOUR DEED.

OKAY. WHEN YOU. UNLESS YOU REPLAT IT.

YEAH, YEAH.

THEN IT IS. OTHERWISE I'LL NEVER CHANGE.

ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

SO WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT LOT OF RECORD WE HAVE HASHED THAT ONE OUT AND WE'RE OKAY WITH THE LANGUAGE.

RIGHT. CAROLINE YOU DON'T WANT TO STAY? [LAUGHTER] I LOVE YOU SIR I'VE GOT OTHER BUT YOU CAN COME JOIN ME.

YEAH. YEAH.

TIME TO DO MORE IMPORTANT YOU HAD A PRODUCTIVE THINGS TO DO.

SO I'M RIGHT UPSTAIRS.

THANK YOU. LET'S WE WANT TO TAKE A QUICK FIVE MINUTE BREAK TO.

NO, NO I'M GOOD I'M READY TO GET IT OKAY.

JUST THE NEXT ONE WAS NEIGHBORHOOD EIGHT.

WAS THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS THERE SOMETHING MR. STEVENSON, THAT YOU WANTED TO DISCUSS? WELL, ON THAT ONE, I KNOW WE HAVE USED NEIGHBORHOOD IN TERMS OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE'VE DONE DIFFERENT THINGS WITH IT.

IT HAS BEEN USED SOMEWHERE.

I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW, DO WE NEED TO HAVE A DEFINITION FOR NEIGHBORHOOD OR IS IT JUST A.

BECAUSE WHERE DO YOU WHERE DO YOU STOP AND START OF A NEIGHBORHOOD? YEAH, A NEIGHBORHOOD IS REALLY MORE DESCRIPTIVE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE.

I THINK SELF-IDENTIFIED, YES IS WHAT TO ME, I FEEL LIKE IT'S A SELF-IDENTIFIED THING.

AND AS AN INDIVIDUAL, YOU MIGHT SEE THAT YOU LIVE IN A PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD.

MAYBE IT'S THE NORTH BEACH NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT AN ACTUAL DEFINED NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT YOU IDENTIFY THAT'S THE AREA THAT YOU LIVE IN, AND YOU WOULD QUALIFY THAT AS YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT NOWHERE DO WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT SAYS THAT'S THE NORTH BEACH NEIGHBORHOOD.

THAT'S JUST WHAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED IT TO BE.

IS THAT LIKE PLACE GENERALLY THAT YOU LIVE? SO THAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND THE LIKE.

CBD IS IDENTIFIED BY BOUNDARIES IN LAND USE AND ZONING.

BUT SOMEBODY MAY SAY I LIVE DOWNTOWN.

SO WHERE'S DOWNTOWN.

YEAH. RIGHT.

YEAH. OKAY.

I THINK YOU KNOW, 12TH STREET.

ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GOING TO STRIKE NEIGHBORHOOD.

MOVE ON. ALL RIGHT.

NONRESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE THAT'S IN THE LDC.

ISN'T THAT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? NONRESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE MEANS A BUILDING OR ENCLOSURE WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ONE OR MORE RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS. WHAT IS A GARAGE? AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A NONRESIDENTIAL? IT'S SOME STRUCTURE WHERE NOBODY LIVES.

OR LIKE A TOOL SHED COULD BE.

YEAH. YEAH.

THE BUILDING OR CLOSURE, WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ONE OR MORE RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS.

OKAY. OKAY.

SO DOES NOT INCLUDE ONE OR MORE OKAY.

IF IT'S LESS THAN ONE ZERO.

ZIPPO. SO AGAIN THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT IT CAME UP IN A DISCUSSION.

I'M NOT SO SURE.

IN SOME CASES PEOPLE EVER LOOKED AT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DEFINITION TO SEE IF THE TERM EXISTED.

IT COULD VERY WELL HAVE COME UP WITH PART OF THAT DISCUSSION.

SO IF WE'RE HAPPY WITH IT, I'M GOOD WITH IT.

WE'RE ALL GOOD THEN.

THEN WE MOVE ON.

YEAH. OKAY. WE'RE OFF.

OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON.

NO CHANGE. OKAY.

NUMBER TEN PARCEL.

LET'S GET OVER TO PARCEL.

PARCEL. PARCEL.

NO. SORRY.

IS THERE NOT A DEFINITION FOR PARCEL IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE?

[01:15:01]

THAT'S IT.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO NOW I GOT THAT FROM YOU.

YEAH. THAT'S WHAT.

NO, I'M IT'S A PROBLEM.

WELL, AND THAT'S THAT, THAT I THINK THAT'S HOW THAT ONE MAY HAVE GOTTEN ON THE LIST ORIGINALLY.

YEAH. SO WELL IF IT TALKS ABOUT PARCELS LOTS AND THEY MIX IT ALL UP AND OKAY WHAT IS IT.

SO AND WE DID HAVE AN ALTERNATE DEFINITION ON THAT TWO ALTERNATE PROPOSAL AND OUR DEFINITIONS.

OKAY. I'VE GOT ONE DEFINITION THAT'S BEEN PROPOSED IS MEANS A TRACT OF LAND THAT IS CONTIGUOUS UNDER THE SAME OWNERSHIP INTEREST AND IDENTIFIED BY THE NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER.

PARCEL NUMBER A PARCEL MAY BE A SINGLE TRACT OR A COMBINATION OF LOTS, PORTIONS OF LOTS, AND OR SUBSTANDARD LOTS.

RIGHT. THAT'S ONE DEFINITION.

I THINK STAFF HAS GIVEN US A DEFINITION THAT SAYS PARCEL MEANS A TRACT OF LAND DESCRIBED BY METES AND BOUNDS OR PLAT.

I THINK I DID A LET'S SEE PARCEL.

I DID A GOOGLE SEARCH AND THIS WAS FOR ACTUALLY CALIFORNIA KNOWS ABOUT CALIFORNIA.

PARCEL OF REAL PROPERTY MEANS A SEPARATE PARCEL OF REAL PROPERTY HAVING A SEPARATE ASSESSOR'S PARCEL NUMBER AS SHOWN ON THE TAX ROLLS OF THE COUNTY.

OKAY. NO.

I DON'T [INAUDIBLE] WITH THAT. SIMILAR TO THE ALTERNATE PROPOSAL DEFINITION.

WELL NO. YEAH I THINK YOU DO OR DON'T AGREE WITH IT.

I DO. WHAT DOES SAINT AUGUSTINE SAY.

I JUST HAD IT I LOST IT.

IT WAS A VERY MESSED UP DEFINITION.

WELL WE WANT TO HEAR THAT. IT'S WORSE THAN CALIFORNIA? [LAUGHTER] YEAH, YEAH, I'LL FIND IT.

WELL, I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST LOST IT.

LIKE I LOOKED AT IT AND, WELL, THEY'RE DOING THAT.

[INAUDIBLE] FOR WHERE? PALM BEACH COUNTY. OH. CAN I ADD SOMETHING? YEAH, YEAH. HAVING TO DO WITH PARCEL THAT WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT LIKE EARLIER WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT PARCEL.

WE STARTED MIXING THOSE TWO BACK AND FORTH.

YES. WE DID. OKAY.

AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, WE'VE ALWAYS AN APPRAISAL WHERE WE WANT TO VALUE A PARCEL. OKAY.

THE FIRST PLACE WE GO IS TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISERS DATABASE, BECAUSE THE PROPERTY APPRAISERS DATABASE WILL SHOW THAT PARCEL AS IT'S TAXED IN THE COUNTY.

AND TYPICALLY IN THERE, IT WILL ALSO PROVIDE ALL OF THE IF THERE'S OTHER LOTS OF PIECES OF PROPERTY ARE TIED TO THAT, BUT IT STILL DESCRIBES IT AS ONE PARCEL.

SO IN NO TIME DO THEY TALK ABOUT A PARCEL BEING 5 OR 6 OR 8 OR 10 LOTS OR ANYTHING, EXCEPT IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT PARCEL.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO WE'RE ALWAYS TALKING WE WANT TO IDENTIFY SOMETHING UNDER.

WE WANTED TO FIND THAT RESTAURANT ACROSS THE STREET AS THAT PARCEL.

OKAY. NO ONE EVER LOOKS AT IT AS WHAT'S UNDERLYING MAKING UP THAT PARCEL EXCEPT THE PROPERTY APPRAISER.

HE'S THE ONE THAT DOES THAT.

AND YOU CAN SEE. HE'S NOT THE ONE THAT DOES THAT.

WELL, HE RECORDS THE PLAT, RIGHT? NO. WELL, THE CLERK RECORDS THE PLAT AND THEN THE CLERK GIVES THE INFORMATION TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER.

PROPERTY APPRAISER DOES NOT DO ANYTHING AT ALL.

HE ASSIGNS THE PERSONAL ID NUMBER BASED ON WHAT YOU BOUGHT, THE NUMBER, THE WHATEVER LAND YOU BOUGHT.

TAKE THE MILL, FOR EXAMPLE.

IT'S 112 ACRES.

IT'S ONE PARCEL, ONE PARCEL ID, BUT IT'S GOT A MULTITUDE OF LOTS THAT ARE IN THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION.

RIGHT. SO THE LEGAL IS WHAT REALLY IS IMPORTANT.

I COULD CREATE FIVE PARCELS FROM THE MILL.

I COULD CREATE FIVE LEGAL DESCRIPTIONS.

JUST LIKE KELLY SAID, I CAN CREATE A METES AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTION AND CREATE MULTIPLE PARCELS OF THAT 112 ACRES THAT THE MILL OWNS AND I JUST HAVE TO CREATE A LEGAL DESCRIPTION THROUGH METES AND BOUNDS OR A COMBINATION OF PREVIOUSLY RECORDED LOTS.

BUT MY POINT IS, IS THAT AND THAT'S ALL TRUE, EXCEPT THAT IF YOU GO TO NASSAU COUNTY, THEY'LL DESCRIBE THAT AS A SINGLE PARCEL. AND WHEN THEY FILL OUT YOUR DOCUMENTS.

[01:20:05]

ALL RIGHT. SO IT TYPICALLY ALWAYS STARTS THERE OKAY.

SO THE SECOND DEFINITION AND I THINK AND THEN AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE WHENEVER WE DISCUSS PARCELS WE ALWAYS DISCUSS THE PARCEL AS DESCRIBED BY NASSAU COUNTY OKAY.

IT'S AN EASY WAY TO START.

SAME THING WITH PLAT.

SAME WAY WITH STATE.

SAME WAY WITH CITY.

YOU START SOMEWHERE.

I LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

WELL, IN WHAT COUNTY? NASSAU COUNTY, WHAT CITY? FERNANDINA BEACH, ETC.

SAME THING WITH PROPERTY.

YOU START WITH THAT PARCEL ID NOW FROM THERE.

HISTORICALLY THESE HAVE ALL BEEN BROKEN UP BECAUSE OF OUR AGE HERE.

BUT WHEN HE CREATES A NEW SUBDIVISION, YOU'LL TAKE THAT PLAT DOWN AND THEY WILL.

THEN IT STARTS WITH ONE SINGLE PARCEL ID, AND THEN THEY WILL THEN LOOK AT HIS PLAT.

HE'LL TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, AND THEY WILL THEN ASSIGN A PARCEL ID TO EACH OF THE INDIVIDUAL LOTS OR PARCELS IN HIS PLAT.

OKAY, SO MY WHOLE POINT HERE, WE ALWAYS START WITH THE PARCEL ID, BUT THAT HAS NOTHING.

SO WE'RE DEFINING PARCEL.

WE'RE NOT DEFINING PARCEL ID.

WELL THAT'S A PARCEL IS JUST A TRACT PLOT OR PIECE OF LAND IS WHAT I'M SEEING.

AND I LOVE YOUR FIRST OR STAFF'S DEFINITION OR YOURS AS DESCRIBED THROUGH METES AND BOUNDS OR A COMBINATION OF LOTS.

YEAH. IS THAT UP THERE? OKAY. A PIECE OF LAND.

YEAH. AND I WOULD CAN I AT THIS MOMENT AND, AND WHEN WE WERE WRITING I, I'VE SAID THIS MORE THAN ONCE IN 2004 OR 5 OR 6, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE REGULATIONS, WE TALKED ABOUT PARCELS AND WE TALKED ABOUT PARCEL IN TERMS OF THE PROPERTY ID FROM NASSAU COUNTY. OKAY.

THAT'S MY TOTAL RECOLLECTION OF DOING THAT BACK THEN.

IT WASN'T UNTIL LATER IN SOME INTERPRETATIONS OF THOSE THINGS THAT IT GOT CHANGED TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY, WHICH IS STILL NOT COMPLETELY SETTLED OUT.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT FROM THAT.

BECAUSE BECAUSE, MARK, IF SOMEBODY OWNS 112 ACRES..

THAT'S ONE PARCEL, OKAY.

THAT'S ONE PARCEL. THEY DESERVE TO BE ABLE TO SPLIT IT UP.

I'M NOT SAYING THEY DON'T..

SO THAT THEY CAN CREATE WHATEVER THEY WANT.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE START WITH WHAT'S THE DESCRIPTION OF THAT? HOW ABOUT WE START WITH DEFINITIONS THAT WE KNOW OF AND A DEFINITION OF A PARCEL OF LAND IS A TRACT PLOT OR PIECE OF LAND.

AND I LOVE THE ADDITION OF AS DESCRIBED THROUGH THE METES AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTION.

THAT'S A PARCEL. THAT'S THAT'S A VERY CORE FUNDAMENTAL LEGAL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROPERTY APPRAISER.

BUT LOOKING AT THAT, THAT'S WHEN YOU GET INTO ALL THESE SEPARATE LOTS AND ALL THE OTHER PIECES OF THAT.

IT'S STILL ALL JUST WE'RE ONLY DEFINING.

IT'S STILL DESCRIBED IN NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY AS ONE PARCEL ID NUMBER.

AND I DON'T HAVE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S A PROBLEM NOT STARTING THERE.

THEN YOU CAN SUBDIVIDE AND DO EVERYTHING AFTER THAT, BECAUSE THERE'S A LEGAL DESCRIPTION THAT'S UNDER THAT PARCEL ID NUMBER, AND IT CAN BE A COMBINATION OF LOTS THAT ARE LOTS OF RECORD. AND IF I WANT TO SELL A PORTION OF THOSE AND CREATE A PARCEL THROUGH A METES AND BOUNDS DESCRIPTION, AND I WANT TO SELL IT TO VICTORIA AS LONG AS I CREATE THAT PARCEL OF LAND THAT WOULD MEET THE CITY'S RULES.

I CAN DO THAT. AND I THINK WE NEED TO DEFINE THAT.

AND I THINK WE'VE GOT A VERY GOOD DEFINITION HERE AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PERSONAL ID NUMBER.

WELL, I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT PART OF THIS CASE IF THE MILL'S GOT, YOU KNOW, 100 PLUS ACRES.

OKAY. IF THEY TOOK EVERYTHING ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF WHAT IS A FRANKLIN STREET THAT RUNS KIND OF.

OKAY, SO IF THEY TOOK THE SOUTH SIDE OF FRANKLIN, WHICH IS STILL A LOT OF THEIR LAND OVER THERE, THEY COULD SPIN THAT OFF AND THAT COULD BECOME AN EMPTY UNTO ITSELF TO GET ITS OWN TAX ID NUMBER.

NOW THEY GET TWO TAX BILLS INSTEAD OF ONE.

YOU DO OKAY, BUT A BUNCH OF IT IS SEPARATELY.

IT IS OKAY. BUT THEY COULD ALSO SELL OUT THEIR WOOD STORAGE YARD, THE AT THE CORNER OF FRANKLIN AND 14TH.

AND THEY COULD, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD SELL TEN ACRES THERE.

AS LONG AS IT MET THE UNDERLYING ZONING, THEY WOULD CREATE A PARCEL, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DEFINING.

AND WHO CARES ABOUT PARCEL ID NUMBER AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THE PARCEL COMES FIRST.

SO WE SIT THERE AND CREATE THE PARCEL THROUGH A LEGAL DESCRIPTION, THROUGH METES AND BOUNDS.

[01:25:04]

WELL, THE PROBLEM COMES UP WHEN YOU START WANTING TO SUBDIVIDE ALL OF THOSE, OKAY? BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE THE BUT WE HAVE A WE HAVE A DEFINITION FOR SUBDIVISION.

THEY'LL GO RIGHT TO THAT AND THEN WE START THAT PROCESS.

SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DEFINE WHAT A PARCEL ONE WORD.

BUT I'M GOING BACK TO THE STATE HAVE A DEFINITION OF IT IN THE STATE STATUTE FOR PARCEL.

YEAH I CAN'T FIND ST.

AUGUSTINE'S. I'M SORRY I CAN'T GET ON TO THE..

HOW DOES SAINT AUGUSTINE DESCRIBE PARCEL? I HAD IT AND I LOST IT AND I CAN'T GET BACK.

I'LL FIND IT. THEY STARTED WITH THE EXACT SAME THING.

AND THEN THEY PUT A CAVEAT BECAUSE THEY COMBINED THEIR LOT OF RECORD.

AND THEY SAID, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT A LEGAL I IT WAS VERY CONFUSING.

BUT WE WANT A CORE FUNDAMENTAL.

ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS, THIS GOES AND..

PARCEL MEANS A PLATTED OR UNPLATTED LOT, TRACT UNIT OR OTHER SUBDIVISION OF REAL PROPERTY WITHIN A COMMUNITY, AS DESCRIBED IN THE DECLARATION, WHICH IS CAPABLE OF SEPARATE CONVEYANCE, AND OF WHICH THE PARCEL OWNER OR AN ASSOCIATION WITH, IN WHICH THE PARCEL OWNER MUST BE A MEMBER THAT IS OBLIGATED.

LET ME SEE WHERE I'M LOOKING AT THIS.

THIS IS DEFINITIONS OF HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.

YEAH, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT RIGHT.

PERSONAL PROPERTY.

SO THAT'S WHERE THAT ONE'S COMING FROM.

FOR PARCEL DEFINITION, A PARCEL OWNER MEANS THE RECORDED OWNER OF A LEGAL TITLE TO A PARCEL.

BUT THERE'S WHERE PARCEL IS DEFINED BY STATE STATUTE OKAY.

I MEAN, IF WE CAN FIND SOMETHING THAT WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT IS ALREADY IN A STATE DOCUMENT.

I MEAN, I WOULD JUST AGAIN, I WOULD THINK OUR USE HERE, WE ALWAYS GO THE FIRST THING THEY PUT ON ANY OF THOSE DOCUMENTS WITH THE CITY IS THE PARCEL ID NUMBER. IS THAT IN THE, IN THE, IN THE PROCESS OF, OF SUBDIVIDING A TRACK OF LAND, WHERE IS THAT IN THE PROCESS? IS THAT AT THE VERY END OF THIS PROCESS.

YEAH. THIS STARTS THIS IS THE VERY, VERY BEGINNING OF A SUBDIVISION WHERE THEY WHEN YOU CREATE A PARCEL OF LAND TO SELL, YOU CAN CREATE A SUBDIVISION FOR THAT OR YOU CAN DO NOTHING WITH IT. RIGHT, RIGHT.

BUT IF BUT I'M TRYING TO SEE WHERE THE, THE FILING WITH THE CLERK OF THE COURT COMES IN.

IS THAT AT THE FRONT OR IS THAT AT THE END? AT THE BACK. THAT'S AT THE BACK. YEAH.

IT'S IT'S GOT TO BE AFTER ALL THE DEFINITIONS, YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHO'S GOING TO OWN ALL THE PIECES.

WELL, BUT IF A DEVELOPER HAS, YOU KNOW, TEN ACRES AND THEY DIVIDE IT UP INTO TEN ONE ACRE PARCELS, THAT WOULD BE A PLAT, THEN THAT'S A PLAT.

AND THEN WHO, WHO AND WHEN PUTS ALL THOSE LITTLE NUMBERS ON THEM.

WELL, THE PROPERTY APPRAISER, APPRAISER THROUGH THE RECORDING OF THAT PLAT, THE COUNTY.

AND WHEN THAT PLAT IS RECORDED, THEN THEY PUT A PARCEL NUMBER ON EVERY ONE OF THE PIECES..

AND THE BUILDER CAN END UP OWNING ALL TEN OF THEM AND THEN AS HE SELLS IT NORMALLY DOES, THEN THERE'S A TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP RIGHT AT THE INDIVIDUAL.

SMART BUILDERS WON'T PLAT IT OR WON'T DO THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY TAXES ON IT WHILE THEY'RE TRYING TO SELL IT OUT.

SO. SO THEY LEAVE IT AS A ONE PARCEL ONE, OR THEY'LL DO IT IN PHASES.

SO OKAY, OKAY.

SO THEY KEEP ONE PIECE AS A TRACT, TRACT A OR TRACT B, RIGHT.

RIGHT. SO IT MAY BE 50 LOTS OVER EACH ONE.

BUT THEY DON'T WANT FILE THAT THAT BE THAT LARGE.

BUILD OUT SCENARIOS.

YOU WOULDN'T YOU'RE NOT TYPICALLY GOING TO SEE THAT TYPE OF ARRANGEMENT OCCUR LOCALLY.

NO NOT HERE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE LAND AREA TO DO THAT.

SO THEY RECORD THE PLAT AND IT'S RECORDED.

THEY CREATE THE PARCELS, WE ALL MOVE ON.

WE PULL BUILDING PERMITS ON THOSE INDIVIDUAL PARCELS.

CAN WE PUT IN WHAT MARK IS DESCRIBING? YOU WOULD DO THAT IN A BIGGER DEVELOPMENT SCENARIO.

WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST DEFINITION THAT YOU READ? IT WAS IT WAS PARCEL MEANS A TRACK OF LAND DESCRIBED BY METES AND BOUNDS OR PLAT, AND THAT WAS FROM STAFFS. AND WHAT WAS THE DEFINITION? THE SECOND ONE A PARCEL MEANS A TRACK OF LAND THAT IS CONTIGUOUS UNDER THE SAME OWNERSHIP INTEREST AND IDENTIFIED BY THE NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER.

PARCEL NUMBER A PARCEL MAY BE A SINGLE TRACK OR A COMBINATION OF LOTS, PORTIONS OF LOTS, AND OR SUBSTANDARD LOTS, RIGHT? YEAH, I LIKE STAFFS MYSELF BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR THAT SECOND ONE IS YOU SAY YOU LIKE THAT ONE.

NO, I LIKE YOU.

LIKES THE FIRST ONE. YEAH, YEAH.

WELL BECAUSE BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR.

WELL, BUT THIS IS VERY CLEAR WHEN IT COMES TO DEVELOPMENT FOR THIS CITY.

YEAH. FOR THIS CITY, THIS IS TAKES INTO THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST.

[01:30:10]

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH SAYING WHAT STAFF HAS SAID, BUT THEN SAY OR PLAT AND IDENTIFIED BY THE NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER PARCEL NUMBER. RIGHT. THAT WOULD THAT WOULD CLEAR THAT UP.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IF YOU CREATE A PARCEL, YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE A FRACTION OF A PARCEL ID NUMBER.

SO WE'RE NOT CREATING A PARCEL.

BUT IF SOMEONE WANTS TO KNOW HOW TO DO IT OR WHAT IT IS.

WE'RE DESCRIBING, WHAT ACTUALLY EXISTS.

I THINK FOR OUR PURPOSES HERE, I THINK, IN OTHER WORDS, I WOULD AGREE WITH WHAT YOU JUST ADD THAT AS DESCRIBED BY NASSAU COUNTY PROPERTY APPRAISER.

SO WHEN YOU WANT TO LOOK UP A PARCEL OR YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S IN THAT PARCEL, HOW WOULD YOU DO IT? YOU GO TO YOU GO TO THE MAP AND LOOK AT THAT AND IT'LL SAY PARCEL SOME ID AND THEN YOU CAN PULL, YOU HAVE TO PULL.

WHAT YOU WOULD LOOK AT IS YOUR LEGAL.

HE'S LEGAL DESCRIPTION.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROPERTY, THE PROPERTY APPRAISER, WHAT THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION IS, THE BINDING THING THAT YOU GET TITLE INSURANCE ON.

THAT'S WHAT THE CLERK RECORDS.

THAT'S WHAT'S BINDING.

IS YOUR LEGAL DESCRIPTION WITHIN THERE.

THE PARCEL ID NUMBER IS ONLY THERE FOR TAXING.

IT'S THE ONLY THING IT'S THERE FOR.

SO THEY CAN SEND YOU ONE TAX BILL FOR THAT USE.

AND SOMETIMES THEY'LL BREAK IT UP BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT USES AND THEY WANT TO TAX YOU INCREMENTALLY DIFFERENTLY.

BUT IS THERE IS IT TRUE THAT A PARCEL ALWAYS HAS AN APPLICABLE TAX ID NUMBER? I MEAN, THE CITY WE DON'T.

MANY PARCELS WE DO IN THE COUNTY ALL THE TIME.

THE COUNTY? IT HAPPENS.

I MEAN, RANIER DID IT FOR 30 YEARS.

THEY WOULD CREATE THROUGH METES AND BOUNDS A PARCEL, AND THEY WOULD SELL IT TO YOU.

AND YOU WOULD YOU WOULD USUALLY GO GET A PROPERTY, A PARCEL ID NUMBER AT THAT POINT, BUT THAT WAS UP TO THE BUYER.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS UP TO YOU.

YOU GOT A PARCEL OF LAND THAT WAS LEGALLY DESCRIBED, AND YOU WOULDN'T GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND RECORD IT AT THE.

YEAH, YOU WOULD RECORD IT, BUT THAT THE COURTHOUSE DOESN'T GIVE YOU A PERSONAL ID NUMBER.

NO, NO, THAT'S UP TO YOU TO GO TO THE NEXT STEP TO THE PROPERTY, YOU HAVE TO GET IT.

SO HOW DOES THE COUNTY TAX YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE ESPECIALLY THE PROPERTY APPRAISER GETS COPIED ON..

CATCH UP WITH YOU. AND THE COUNTY'S WENT THROUGH A LOT OF HISTORY WITH THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD SPLIT LOTS.

YOU WOULD THERE.

THERE'D BE 100 ACRES THAT WOULD BE SPLIT OFF A COUNTY ROAD.

AND THEY WOULD THEY WOULD HALF IT AND THEN HALF IT AND THEN HALF IT, GIVE IT TO THEIR KIDS AND THEY'D GIVE IT TO THEIR KIDS AND EVENTUALLY THEY HAD A BIG PROBLEM.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE HERE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY LAND.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE COUNTY IT WAS AN ISSUE.

YEAH. SO LET ME JUST ADD, SO WE DON'T HAVE THOSE KIND OF ISSUES OR PROBLEMS GENERALLY.

SO FOR OUR PURPOSES FOR PLANNING AND ZONING AND THINGS THAT WE DO, THAT'S WHY I SAY IT MAKES IT VERY EASY TO DESCRIBE IT AS A PARCEL ID, AS BY THE PROPERTY APPRAISER'S DATABASE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT ALL OF THIS OUT HERE IS.

EVERY ONE OF THEM HAS A PARCEL ID AND UNDER THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU GO FROM THERE.

BUT ALL RIGHT, WE'RE TRYING TO DEFINE WHAT A PARCEL IS UNDER THE FERNANDINA BEACH LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

WE LOOK AT IT THIS WAY.

ALL RIGHT. YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR PROPERTY.

YEAH OKAY.

NOW YOU'VE GOT D AND LET'S SAY THERE'S 20 UNDERLYING LOTS IN THERE, WHATEVER THEY ARE.

AND THEY COULD EVEN BE MULTIPLE PLATS.

YOU MAKE IT AS COMPLICATED OR AS SIMPLE.

I'M TRYING TO MAKE THE SYSTEM SIMPLE.

SO YOU'VE GOT THIS GOBBLEDYGOOK OF LEGAL DESCRIPTION WHEN YOU GO DOWN TO CITY HALL HERE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR PROPERTY, THE FIRST THING THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT THE PARCEL ID NUMBER IS FOR NASSAU COUNTY, BECAUSE FOR THEIR PURPOSES, THAT GIVES THEM A STARTING PLACE FOR EVERYTHING THEY'RE GOING TO DO OR NEED TO DO, BECAUSE THEY CAN GO INTO THERE.

THEY CAN LOOK UP EVERYTHING.

JUST THAT ONE NUMBER WILL GIVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT STRUCTURE AND WHAT EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT PROPERTY, YOU'RE GOING TO PULL UP A SKETCH OF YOUR HOUSE THAT'S ON THERE IF YOU WANT TO GO THAT FAR.

BUT AND SOME OF THEM WILL DO, YOU CAN GO FURTHER.

YOU KNOW, WHAT COUNTY YOU ARE AND HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SPEND ON THEIR DATABASES.

BUT YOU CAN FIND EVERYTHING WITH THAT ONE NUMBER.

AND THAT'S WHY I KEEP WANTING TO SAY, WHY DON'T WE USE THAT SINGLE NUMBER? BECAUSE THAT DESCRIBES EVERYTHING, OR IT STARTS YOU AT THE STARTING POINT THAT YOU NEED TO GO TO ON ALL OF THE PLANNING AND REDOING AND WHATEVER.

AND ITS COMMON LANGUAGE TO YOUR STREET NUMBER.

[01:35:04]

IF YOU NEED THE START IT SOMEWHERE LEGALLY.

SO. SO BASED ON YOUR LOGIC, YOUR ADDRESS WOULD DEFINE YOUR PARCEL.

IT POSSIBLY COULD, BUT THE ADDRESS USUALLY GOES BACK.

DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE A NEED FOR A DEFINITION OF A PARCEL.

WELL, NO, EXCEPT THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD BE 24, 25, AND 26.

SO WELL, HERE'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THOUGH.

PEOPLE ARE, LET'S CALL IT LET'S LOOK AT THE MILL.

THEY MAY OR MAY NOT DO THAT.

THEY'RE GOING TO GO DOWN TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER BEFORE EVER COMING TO THE CITY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO SPLIT OFF WHATEVER PIECE OF LAND THEY WANT, AND THEY'RE GOING TO GET A NEW PARCEL ID NUMBER FOR THAT.

AND THE CITY WON'T BE INVOLVED IN IT BECAUSE BECAUSE OF THAT RULE, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, THE HECK WITH YOU, I'LL GO GET A NEW PARCEL, ID THEM.

I GET THEM ALL THE TIME. IN THE COUNTY.

IT'S REAL EASY. I FILE A FORM AND IN TWO WEEKS I GET ONE, RIGHT? SO DON'T YOU WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS BEFORE? WELL, I WOULD ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, BUT WE ARE AT THE END OF THAT PROCESS.

NOW. THIS IS THE BEGINNING.

WE KIND OF IN THE CITY. I MEAN, WE MIGHT SAY WE DON'T HAVE WE'RE NOT CREATING THAT MANY PARCELS NOW.

SO ANYTHING THAT WE'RE DOING IS TO IDENTIFY A SPECIFIC PROPERTY.

PROPERTY. THAT'S AN EASY WAY TO GET THERE.

OKAY. WELL I'VE SAID MY PIECE OKAY.

I'M DONE. I KNOW WE'RE OPPOSING IF YOU HAVEN'T REALIZED THAT, BUT I AND MOST OF THE, YOU KNOW, PLACES WHERE I WORKED ALL OVER THE STATE OF FLORIDA, THAT'S WHERE WE START AND ALL APPRAISAL WORK START THAT SAME WAY.

OKAY. BECAUSE HE GIVES ME METES AND BOUNDS.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A PROPERTY IS AND METES AND BOUNDS? I HAD A SPECIAL PROGRAM THAT WAS LIKE 50 PAGES LONG, AND I HAD TO PUT ALL THE METES AND BOUNDS IN WHILE HE'S PAYING SOME SURVEYOR TO GO OUT THERE AND DO IT, YOU KNOW.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU IT MAKES IT EASY TO IDENTIFY A SPECIFIC PIECE OF PROPERTY.

I LIKE THIS ONE.

THE TRACK, WHATEVER YOU HAD RIGHT THERE RICHARD, IT'S VERY, VERY CLEAR.

SO YEAH, A DISTINCT CONTINUOUS PORTION OR TRACT OF LAND.

AND IF YOU HAVEN'T REALIZED IT, A LOT OF THIS GOES TO THESE UNDERLYING LOTS OF RECORDS AND REDEVELOPMENT OF THOSE.

RIGHT? OKAY. BECAUSE WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT PARCEL AND 103 ETC., AS I EXPLAINED, THE WAY I REMEMBER IT WAS WE TALKED ABOUT PARCELS BASED ON PARCEL ID NUMBERS, WHICH OVER THE YEARS WAS INTERPRETED DIFFERENTLY TO START WITH THE BUILDING FOOTPRINTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH THEN ALLOWED THOSE LOTS TO BE SEPARATED.

OKAY, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

SO WELL, I'M GOING TO SAY, CAN WE JUST JUST READ AGAIN WHAT WHAT RICHARD'S GOT ON.

YEAH. THIS IS JUST A DICTIONARY DEFINITION.

BUT WHAT I KIND OF THOUGHT WHEN WE STARTED, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DOING.

IT'S A DISTINCT CONTINUOUS PORTION OR TRACT OF LAND PERIOD.

THAT'S A PARCEL. NOW THE WHERE THE METES AND BOUNDS IS THAT ADD A LITTLE MORE.

LET ME CALL LEGAL.

NOT REAL, I MEAN, IT'S JUST A WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.

I SORT OF LIKE WHAT RICHARD'S GOT.

YEAH. IT'S CLEAR.

ALL RIGHT. I WOULD MAKE A MOTION.

I'LL. NO, NO MOTIONS.

NO, I'M NO MOTIONS.

ALL RIGHT. BECAUSE I'M STILL STUCK ON THIS ONE HERE.

WELL LET'S, LET'S THAT'S A STARTING POINT.

WELL BECAUSE THE CONTIGUOUS AND ALL OF THAT IS I THINK ADDS DEPTH TO THIS DEFINITION, I THINK I JUST DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE IT TODAY.

LET'S WELL, WE MAY NOT, BUT WE HAVE A WE HAVE A DRAFT A DISTINCT CONTIGUOUS.

WE GO HOME AND LOOK AT SOME PROPERTIES TO SEE.

ALL RIGHT WE'LL DO THAT.

BUT IF WE'VE GOT A GENERAL YEAH WE CAN ALWAYS COME.

WE'LL COME BACK TO THIS. YES, YES.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. WE'LL COME BACK TO THIS.

WELL THIS IS WE DIDN'T SAY LET GO OF THE HORSE.

NO. IF WE COME BACK TO IT, HOW ARE WE GOING TO SETTLE? I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE THERE'S GOING TO BE ONE VOTE AGAINST IT FOREVER.

YES. LET'S JUST SEE TWO HE'S, YOU KNOW.

WELL, I LIKE RICHARD, SO I'M ALL FOR IT.

I LIKE THE ALTERNATE PROPOSAL THAT WAS THERE AND I LIKE IT TIED TO I YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT.

I LIKE IT TIED TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER NUMBER BECAUSE THAT'S THE GREAT STARTING PLACE AND I WON'T MENTION IT AGAIN.

OKAY. EXCEPT WHEN WE HAVE MORE DISCUSSION.

THAT'S GOOD. ALL RIGHT.

SO PLATT, WHERE DO WE HAVE A DEFINITION HERE FOR PLATT? I THOUGHT YOU DECIDED YOU WEREN'T.

WHAT'S THAT? OH, THE CITY PLATT.

YEAH, WE HAVE PLATT.

AND THERE'S A DEFINITION FOR A FINAL PLATT.

[01:40:01]

WELL, YOUR FINAL PLAT GET FILED WITH THE COUNTY, RIGHT? YES. NOT WITH THE CITY, BUT WE'VE GOT PLAT OR REPLAT PLATTED.

LOT PLATTED LOT OF RECORD.

THOSE ARE ALL TERMS THAT HAVE SHOWN UP IN..

CONVERSATIONS. CONVERSATIONS.

I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT A RECORD MEANS NOW, DON'T WE? YEAH, I THINK WE DO.

SO IF WE HAVE A PLAT THAT A PLAT OF RECORD HAS BEEN RECORDED, IS THAT RIGHT? YES. RIGHT.

BUT LET'S PUT A DEFINITION IN FOR IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST DOES IT.

IT'S GOT IT'S GONE TO THE, TO THE COURT AND HAS BEEN RECORDED.

THEN THERE'S NOT A NOBODY HAS TO DEFINE OR ARBITRARILY ASSESS WHAT THEY THINK THE DEFINITION SHOULD BE.

IT'S WRITTEN DOWN IN A IN A DOCUMENT.

I THINK WE KNOW WHAT PLAT IS.

YEAH. IS THAT ARE WE ARE SETTLED ON PLAT.

DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS? IF WE'RE SETTLED ON PLAT, THEN PLAT OF RECORD IS A PLAT THAT'S BEEN RECORDED.

SO WHAT IS A PLAT? IT'S IN THERE SOMEWHERE, I DON'T THINK.

WELL, I MEAN, FINAL PLAT DOES SAY IS THE FINAL DESIGN OF DRAWING, THE FINAL DESIGN DRAWING SHOWING THE BOUNDARIES AND LOCATIONS OF ALL LOTS.

THE FINAL PLAT IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE A PERPETUAL RECORD OF THE SUBDIVISION.

I THINK THOSE ARE TWO GOOD DEFINITIONS WE NEED TO USE.

WELL, YOU MEAN JUST A PLAT YOU WANT TO CHANGE FINAL PLAT TO JUST SAY PLAT? NO, I LIKE I LIKE THE FINAL PLAT TO SAY BECAUSE WE A PAB HEAR THAT AND WHAT IS.

BUT THERE'S NOT EVERY PLAT.

THE FINAL PLAT. NO, NO PRELIMINARY PLAT.

THERE'S PRELIMINARY. WELL, NO, I'M SAYING FOR WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION FOR PLAT IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT I CAN FIND ONLY FINAL PLOT.

ANY PLAT THAT'S BEEN FILED WITH NASSAU COUNTY IS THE FINAL PLAT, IS IT NOT? I KNOW THEY CAN HAVE THREE PLATS AND ALL THAT BUSINESS, BUT YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE SPOT YOU GO FOR.

FINAL PLAT IS WOULD THAT BE NECESSARILY A SUBDIVISION? A PLAT IS NOT NECESSARILY A SUBDIVISION THOUGH.

IT IS. IT IS.

IT'S LIKE THE FINAL PLAT DEFINITION, EXCEPT THAT IT IF IT WAS JUST PLAT, IT WOULD BE RECORDED.

RIGHT. SO IT'D BE, YOU KNOW, AND BE A LEGAL INSTRUMENT AT THAT POINT.

YEAH. SO IT IS A RECORDED IT IS A RECORDED FINAL PLAT THAT IS A LEGAL INSTRUMENT.

WELL, BUT IT'S FILED WITH THE HERE IS WHERE WE HAVE TO FIND THE FINAL PLAT SAYING THAT IT'S THE FINAL DESIGN.

DRAWINGS SHOW THE BOUNDARIES AND LOCATIONS OF ALL LOTS.

THE FINAL PLAT IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE A PERPETUAL RECORD OF THE SUBDIVISION AND THE PLANNERS DICTIONARY.

THE DEFINE IT IN A SIMILAR WAY.

THE MAP REPRESENTING THE TRACT OF LAND, SHOWING THE BOUNDARIES AND LOCATIONS OF INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES AND STREETS, A MAP OF A SUBDIVISION OR A SITE PLAN.

IN THIS CASE, IT'S BROADER BECAUSE A SITE PLAN COULD BE A PLAT AS THEY'RE APPLYING IT, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO DO, THAT WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE.

SO IF YOU WANTED TO ONLY HAVE YOUR DEFINITION READ AS A PLAT INSTEAD OF FINAL PLAT, YOU COULD DO THAT.

AND THEN PROCEDURALLY, YOU WOULD HAVE DISTINCT PROCESSES FOR PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT AND HOW WE ACCEPT IT AND MOVE IT THROUGH. WHAT ABOUT THIS ALTERNATE PROPOSAL DEFINITION? THE ACT AND I'LL READ A PLAT MEANS A MAP, OR DELINEATED REPRESENTATION OF THE SUBDIVISION OF LANDS BEING A COMPLETE EXACT REPRESENTATION OF THE SUBDIVISION AND OTHER INFORMATION IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENT OF ALL APPLICABLE SECTIONS OF THIS PART AND OF ANY LOCAL ORDINANCES.

I LIKE THAT OTHER DEFINITION FROM YOUR HANDBOOK.

FOR THE FINAL.

YEAH. BACK HERE.

THE THE OTHER THE FINAL.

PLATT. JUST PLATT.

JUST PLATT. PLATT.

A MAP REPRESENTING A TRACK OF LAND SHOWING BOUNDARIES AND LOCATION OR INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES AND STREETS AND MAP OF SUBDIVISION OR SITE PLAN.

WE HAVE A DEFINITION IN THE RDC WAS THAT I WOULD NOT USE THAT SECOND PART.

I AGREE, I AGREE.

KELLY. WHO AND HOW DOES A PRELIMINARY PLAT BECOME A FINAL PLAT? WHO DECIDES IT HAS TO? WELL, YOU COULD HAVE A PLOT, JUST RUN A SINGLE PROCESS.

AND WE HAVE DONE THAT.

WHEN THERE IS EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, YOU'RE NOT CREATING ANY NEW STREETS.

YOU'RE CONNECTING TO EXISTING LINES THAT FRONT THE PROPERTIES WHERE THE SUBDIVISION IS OCCURRING.

AND SO RATHER THAN HAVE THEM GO THROUGH A PRELIMINARY PLAT, WHICH NOW SHOWS US INITIALLY WHERE ALL THOSE NEW STREETS ARE GOING, WE'RE COMMON.

[01:45:08]

AND THEN YOU WOULD SEE THE LOTS CONVEYED.

OKAY. SO A FINAL PLAT IS AN APPROVED PLAN.

IT'S AN APPROVED PLOT THAT THEN GETS RECORDED.

RIGHT? OKAY.

LET ME MAKE A SUGGESTION ON THAT.

SINCE WE DON'T DEFINE PRELIMINARY PLAT, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DEFINE FINAL PLAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A TECHNICAL TERM THAT GOES THROUGH.

IT'S A PROCESS. SO IF WE JUST DEFINE PLAT THE WAY WE ALL AGREE ON THE DEFINITION, WE COULD STRIKE FINAL PLAT AND THEN JUST COME UP WITH PLAT JUST TO OKAY.

WELL FINAL PLAN IS IN THE LDC.

IT IS. BUT IT'S A PROCESS JUST LIKE THE PRELIMINARY PLAT IS A PROCESS AND WE DON'T DEFINE THAT.

BUT WE WOULD DEFINE A PLAT ITSELF THAT WOULD BE RECORDED IN A LEGAL INSTRUMENT.

YEAH. SO I LIKE THAT.

THAT'S NOT A THING. YEAH.

YEAH. RIGHT. JUST LIKE A FINAL PLAT ISN'T IT.

RIGHT. THEN THE PLAN IS A THING.

I MEAN, YOU CAN YOU READ IT OR SEE IT OR WHATEVER.

SO AND IT'S DEFINED THROUGH A PROCESS.

IT EVOLVES. SO IF YOU KNOW WHAT A PLAT IS, WELL, THE REST OF IT IS THE MECHANICS OF GETTING TO THAT.

YEAH. YEAH. RIGHT.

SO LET'S FOCUS ON THE DEFINITION OF PLAT OKAY.

GO BACK TO DEFINITIONS.

WHERE ARE WE AT. ALL RIGHT.

WELL HERE'S A FINAL PLAT AS IT EXISTS TODAY.

THE FINAL DESIGN DRAWING SHOWING THE BOUNDARIES AND LOCATIONS OF ALL LOTS.

THE FINAL PLAT IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE A PERPETUAL RECORD OF THE SUBDIVISION.

RIGHT. WELL THAT'S THE THAT'S THE THEY JUST PUT THAT FINAL IN FRONT OF IT AS AN ADJECTIVE AS WELL.

THEY. JUST INDICATE THAT IT MAY NOT MAY OR MAY NOT BE RIGHT TO THIS IS WHAT WAS SIGNED OFF ON LEGALLY DONE.

FOR INSTANCE, WE LOOKED AT A PRELIMINARY PLAT OF THE OF THE NEW TOWNHOUSES GOING UP DOWN THERE ON SADLER AT, I CAN'T THINK OF THE LITTLE ROAD THERE WHERE THE TRAILER PARK IS GOING TO BE.

YEAH. SO THERE'S A THERE WAS A PRELIMINARY.

YEAH. AND WE KNOW HE'S GOING TO TWEAK IT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE MADE A COUPLE RECOMMENDATIONS.

HE SAYS, FINE, I AGREE WITH IT.

SO THERE'LL BE, THERE'S A PRELIMINARY THAT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN.

AND WE SAID YEAH, THAT'S OKAY.

WE SUGGESTED A COUPLE OF CHANGES AND THE DEVELOPER SAID, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT ONE.

IT WASN'T A COST, BIG COST IMPACT, BUT IT WAS LOGISTICALLY IT MADE IT, WE THOUGHT, MORE APPEALING.

SO THEN HE WILL COME UP WITH A FINAL PLAT OUT OF THAT PRELIMINARY.

SO THAT'S THAT'S A PROCESS.

THEN I'LL COME BACK TO US.

YEAH. SO IT SHOULD BE HERE TO REMOVE THE TERM FINAL PLAT AND ALSO PRELIMINARY PLAT.

THERE IS NO PRELIMINARY PLAT DEFINITION.

WELL. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO DEFINE PRELIMINARY IN THERE? I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD.

I AGREE AND FINAL.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I THINK YOU GET RID OF FINAL, YOU GET RID OF FINAL TWO AND YOU JUST SAY FLAT.

YEP. IT'S ONLY ONE THING.

YEAH, YEAH YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT, I AGREE.

SO IN THAT CASE YOU WOULD JUST SAY A PLAT IS A DESIGN DRAWING.

IT'S STILL THE FINAL DESIGN.

YEAH. YEAH, IT IS THE FINAL DESIGN INTENDED TO BE RECORDED.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

OR WOULD YOU WANT TO CALL IT ALREADY RECORDED THAT HAS BEEN RECORDED I WOULD THINK.

WHAT DO YOU THINK KELLY, ON THAT FOR OUR PURPOSES.

YEAH. I THINK IT NEEDS.

NO BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT PLANS TO BE RECORDED.

I LIKE THE FINAL IN THERE BECAUSE THAT MEANS IT HAS BEEN RECORDED.

YEAH. IN THIS CASE, WE DON'T WANT TO BE DEALING WITH UNRECORDED PLATS.

RIGHT. BUT WE DO.

WE DO WHEN WE REVIEW A PRELIMINARY A PRELIMINARY.

YEAH. BUT THAT'S ALL THEY ARE.

THEY'RE MEANINGLESS AND THE STIGMA THINGS.

THINK ABOUT IT THAT WAY OKAY.

THIS IS MY PLAN AND MEANWHILE IT'S THE FINAL.

BECAUSE IF NICK'S INVOLVED IN THAT AND THAT FOR THE PARTICULAR JUDGE HE'S GOING TO, HE'S GOING TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF EVOLUTION AND THERE'S GOING TO BE A FINAL DOCUMENT.

THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION HAS REPORTED AND THAT'S WHAT THEY VOTED ON.

OKAY, OKAY. BUT ON ON YOUR DEFINITIONS IN YOUR HANDBOOK, DIDN'T YOU ALSO SAY IT WAS PLAT WOULD SHOW STREETS AND OTHER OTHER THINGS.

THAT IS IN ADDITION YOU COULD CONSIDER.

YEAH, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO.

THE PLAT IS THE FINAL DESIGN DRAWING SHOWING THE BOUNDARIES.

YOU CAN HAVE PLATS WITHOUT STREETS.

YOU COULD. YEAH.

SO IT DOESN'T SAY THAT YOU.

IT DOESN'T SAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE THEM, BUT IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO SHOW THEM.

[01:50:03]

AND SO LIKE AN EXAMPLE, WE DID A FINAL PLOT FOR THE AMELIA COTTAGES ON EIGHTH AND NINTH STREET.

WE DID IT AS A FINAL PLOT BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T CONVEYING ANYTHING.

THEY WEREN'T CREATING NEW STREETS.

THEY WERE RELYING ON ALL EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE EXISTING LOCATION WHERE IT WAS.

WE RAN IT THROUGH AS A FINAL PLAT.

WELL, FOR INSTANCE, MUCH WIGGLE ROOM TO CHANGE TO IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO RUN IT PRELIMINARY, THE FINAL BECAUSE NOTHING WAS GOING TO CHANGE.

CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION ON THAT? IT SAYS ALL LOTS.

CAN WE JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE JUST SAY OF ALL LOTS, TRACTS AND STREETS AS APPLICABLE.

YEAH. AS APPLICABLE. I LIKE THAT QUESTION.

AND IT REALLY WOULD BE RIGHTS OF WAYS THOUGH.

NOT RIGHT STREETS.

YEAH. YOU GET THE QUESTION WHAT'S APPLICABLE.

WELL BECAUSE WE MIGHT NOT HAVE STREETS YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE ROADWAYS.

SO IF IT'S NOT APPLICABLE YOU DON'T SHOW THEM.

AND IT WOULDN'T MATTER WHETHER IT WAS PUBLIC OR PRIVATE.

IT'S A RIGHT OF WAY. THAT'S RIGHT.

RIGHT. AND EASEMENTS PROBABLY.

WE PUT THAT IN THERE TOO.

NOW WHEN WHEN YOU GO TO TRB, WHAT LEVEL DO THEY ALREADY HAVE STREETS TO SEE YOU MEAN.

OH OKAY. SORRY.

TRACT VERSUS TERM.

IT'S GETTING LATE. ANYWAY, DO THEY HAVE ALL THE STREETS AND STUFF LAID OUT ON THAT ONE AT THAT POINT IN TIME? THEY DO OKAY.

BECAUSE THEY'RE YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT DRAINAGE ISSUES, RETENTION ISSUES IN TERMS OF RUNOFF AND SO FORTH.

OKAY. NO WORK OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. SO SO PLAT, I THINK I THINK WE'VE GOT A GOOD DEFINITION ON PLAT.

OKAY. AND PLAT NEEDS TO BE ADDED INTO OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DEFINITIONS BY MODIFYING THE TERM FINAL PLAT.

YEP. YES.

GOT IT. GOT IT.

ALL RIGHT. IT IS A FEW MINUTES BEFORE FOUR.

DO WE WANT TO DIVE INTO ANOTHER ONE? 5:00? YES.

SEVEN MINUTES. I SAY LET'S ADJOURN FOR THE DAY.

KELLY NEEDS TO LEAVE AT FIVE.

YEAH, WE HAVEN'T COVERED ANYTHING.

SO WE HAVE. WE'VE.

WHAT ARE WE COMFORTABLE WITH? THE PLATTED. LOT OF RECORD.

THAT MEANS THAT IT'S BEEN RECORDED.

RIGHT? IS THAT THE PLAT HAS BEEN.

WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE THOSE THREE THAT ARE REPLAT PLATTED LOT AND PLATTED LOT OF RECORD.

THAT'S JUST GOING TO BE THE DEFINITION OF PLAT.

NO, NO, THAT'S HOW IT WAS DECIDED.

YEAH. OKAY.

SO WHERE WERE YOU AT? WE'RE JUST WE'RE GOING TO STOP AT PLAT.

OKAY. YEAH.

AND THEN WE'LL PICK THAT BACK UP.

THIS THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT PLATTED, LOT PLATTED LOT OF RECORD.

WE'LL COME WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT.

ARE WE GOOD ON THAT ONE? YEAH.

ALL RIGHT. SO DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WE'LL COME BACK TO NUMBER 13.

AND ON PLAT KELLY, ONE MORE THING WE DO ON THERE ARE DEDICATIONS DEDICATIONS WHO ARE DEDICATING LAND TO AND OKAY. AND SO AGAIN IF THERE'S ANY MORE DEFINITIONS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT, LET'S KEEP THINK ABOUT IT, KEEP THINKING ABOUT IT. AND NOW AGAIN WE HAVE FOR WORKSHOP PURPOSES I THINK WE DID WE SET UP ANOTHER

[4.1 Progress Update on Active Projects and Upcoming Events]

WE HAVE SET UP TWO PREVIOUS PAGES.

WELL WE SET OUR NEXT MEETING WAS GOING TO BE MAY 8TH MEETING RIGHT.

YEAH. SO YOU GOT.

YEAH WE HAVE A OUR REGULAR SCHEDULE MEETING THAT HAS NOTHING GOING ON.

YOU HAVE NOTHING.

SO WE HAVE SO WE HAVE A REGULAR MEETING WE'LL TALK ABOUT.

SO WHEN WE DO THE AGENDA LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

AS FAR AS DEFINITIONS THAT THAT'S A CONTINUATION KELLY KELLY IF WE'RE IF WE HAVE NOTHING FOR THE REGULAR MEETING, CAN WE MOVE IT TO THREE TO DO THIS.

YES. AND POST IT AS A WORKSHOP.

YEAH THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

THAT'D BE AWESOME. THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.

YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA TO MAKE SURE.

SO THREE, 3:00 ON THE EIGHTH, LET ME CONFIRM THAT IT'S AVAILABLE BECAUSE WE ENDED UP CREATING A CONFLICT HERE TODAY.

I'M NOT SURE IT MAY HAVE BEEN ON MY PART.

YEAH, ORIGINALLY, BUT I FEEL VERY BAD.

WE ORIGINALLY DID THAT AT FIVE AREA.

ALL RIGHT. SO SO KELLY'S GOING TO COME BACK TO US TO SEE IF WE CAN MOVE OUR MAY 8TH MEETING FROM 5:00 TO 3:00.

IF THERE'S NOT A CONFLICT.

YES. IN THIS ROOM.

DOES EVERYBODY THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA? YEAH, I'M OKAY WITH THAT ONE.

OKAY. SO THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

WE ALSO PUT DOWN THE 22ND AS A YES.

ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER WORKSHOP.

OH NO WAY THEY'LL KNOCK IT ALL OUT.

WELL I WAS GOING TO SAY IF WE DO THAT SO WE CAN MAKE A DECISION ON THAT AT THE EIGHTH OKAY.

YEAH. YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

SO TO BE CLEAR, I'M GOING TO CANCEL YOUR REGULAR BOARD MEETING FOR MAY 8TH AND SCHEDULE A WORKSHOP OF THE BOARD

[01:55:03]

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE.. WHY DO YOU WANT WHY DO YOU SAY NO? HOW DO YOU. WELL I ALWAYS IF WE HAVE, WE CAN ALWAYS CANCEL IT AT ANY TIME.

I MEAN, WHY CANCEL IT NOW IN CASE WE NEED IT? I MEAN, I HAVE NO BUSINESS, SO YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE ANY MINUTES OR ANYTHING FOR US TO.

THAT'S THE ONLY. NO, ACTUALLY, I HAVE NO MINUTES EVEN PREPARED AT THIS POINT.

WE ARE OFFICIALLY THAT.

OKAY, BECAUSE THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A GLITCH EARLIER IN THE YEAR.

IT WAS PURELY JUST CATCHING UP ON MINUTES.

WELL, IN FACT, WE DIDN'T HAVE A MEETING.

AND THEN AN ISSUE CAME UP IN THE MINUTES AND PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO LOOK AT THE VIDEO.

SO IT WAS FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS.

YOU KNOW, YOU CANCEL IT IN THE FUTURE.

I WOULD JUST SAY, WHO KNOWS? IT WOULDN'T GET CANCELED UNTIL.

SEVEN DAYS PRIOR.

YEAH. AND AND YOU'LL KNOW THAT WE HAVE THE 3:00 TIME AVAILABLE.

RIGHT. BUT I WILL SCHEDULE IT AS A WORKSHOP OF THE BOARD.

AND WHAT'S NICE IS THAT IF THERE ARE BOARD MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO ATTEND, DOES IT COUNT AGAINST THEM? AND YOU STILL HAVE A PUBLIC OUT THERE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY NOTICE IT UNTIL THE 1ST OF MAY, CORRECT? YES. AND YOU HAVE A PUBLIC OUT THERE THAT'S YOU START.

START THE REGULAR STARTING TIME AND STUFF.

THAT'S TRUE.

KEEP IN MIND IT'S NOT JUST US.

YEAH. THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT CANCELLATION AND THEN NOTICE IT AS A WORKSHOP.

GREAT. DOES ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT? NO. I ANYONE, ANYONE THE DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW.

OKAY. VERY HELPFUL.

OKAY. AND YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE 3 P.M.

MEETING? YEP.

AND I'M SORRY THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IT AT YOUR HOUSE AND YOU CAN SERVE ORDERS.

ABSOLUTELY. COME TO MY HOUSE.

AND IT'S LOVELY. WELL, WE WE HAD WE HAD PIZZA IN IN IS THAT WHAT YOU BEVERAGES.

BUT IT JUST IT DIDN'T WORK OUT OKAY.

SO SO THAT'S GOING TO BE OUR TENTATIVE PLAN UNTIL KELLY GETS BACK TO US.

OH SO SO IT'S EITHER GOING TO BE 3 OR 5 BUT IT'S GOING TO BE IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE EIGHTH.

YEAH. AND THAT'S AND WE'LL PICK UP ON ITEM NUMBER 13.

LUCKY 13. LUCKY 13.

ALL RIGHT I THINK THAT'S BEEN GOOD.

ALL RIGHT. I, WE HAVE NOT NO.

HOLD ON, HOLD ON. STAFF WANT TO GIVE US A REPORT AT OUR MAY MEETING.

DO YOU WANT TO JUST MOVE? QUICK REMINDER, SINCE THIS IS PART OF YOUR AGENDA PACKET AND KIND OF WHERE THINGS STAND, THESE ARE THE RANGE OF STUDIES AND PROJECTS THAT WE ARE ACTIVELY WORKING ON AS A DEPARTMENT RIGHT NOW.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP IT FRESH IN YOUR MIND THAT THOSE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES THAT WE'RE WORKING ON TAKING UP LOTS OF TIME.

SO ALTHOUGH YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN ACTIVE BOARD SCHEDULE RIGHT NOW WITH APPLICATIONS COMING IN, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF ACTIVITY THAT'S HAPPENING ON THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT SIDE OF THINGS. AND I WANT TO KEEP YOU APPRIZED OF THAT.

IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS TIED TO ANY OF THESE STUDIES, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT TO ME AT ANY POINT.

I JUST HAVE A QUESTION ON THE BEBR UPDATE.

I HAD HEARD A RUMOR THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TRY AND FORECAST MAYBE THE NON-PERMA.

THAT IS NOT RUMORED. IN FACT, IT'S IN THERE IN THE STAFF REPORT.

IT'S VERY EXCITING INCLUDING SEASONAL.

OH YEAH OKAY.

YEAH. WHERE DID I MISS THAT.

WE SO WE'RE INCLUDING BOTH PERMANENT AND SEASONAL POPULATION PROJECTIONS IN THIS UPDATED MODEL.

SO IT'S VERY EXCITING TO LEARN.

HOW DO WE GET TO THAT EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF DATA.

YEAH I'M CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT WE'RE RELYING ON IN ORDER TO PULL THAT DATA.

I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT THAT JUST YET.

OKAY. BUT I KNOW THAT THEY ARE GEARING UP TO REALLY GET GOING WITH IT AND ARE WAITING ON A SUBSET OF DATA FROM FROM MY OFFICE IN ORDER TO GET GOING.

SO I WILL LEARN MORE SOON.

SO WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A LITTLE MORE INSIGHT ON THAT AT THE AT THE MAY MEETING AT THE MAY WORKSHOP.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU SEEN A CHANGE IN BUSINESS? I MEAN, IF THINGS SLOWED DOWN, STAYED THE SAME, GOTTEN BUSY? I'M JUST CURIOUS. IT IS MY IMPRESSION.

AND IT'S CERTAINLY IN KEEPING WITH THE ELECTION CYCLE, BOTH LOCALLY AND AS A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, TYPICALLY WE SEE A SLOWDOWN.

OKAY. I THINK THE CHANGING INTEREST RATES ALWAYS HAS AN IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS THAT WE SEE AND THE LEVEL OF INVESTMENT THAT'S OCCURRING WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. I'M ALSO STARTING TO SEE WHERE PROJECTS THAT WE WERE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT ARE NOT COMING TO FRUITION AT ALL.

I THINK THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE CREDIT ENVIRONMENT THAT WE HAVE NATIONALLY.

SO I AM SEEING A SLOWDOWN BECAUSE IN THE MORTGAGE MARKET, WE'RE SEEING SLOW DOWN.

WHEN IS THE CUTOFF FOR IF THEY WERE GOING TO ANNEX COUNTY TO CITY, IT WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN COMPLETED NO LATER THAN THAT FIRST MEETING IN APRIL WOULD HAVE.

OKAY, OKAY. SO WE'RE IN WE'RE IN THAT DEAD ZONE.

[02:00:02]

OKAY. AND THAT'S UNTIL AFTER THE GENERAL ELECTION.

IT IS UNTIL MY UNDERSTANDING WAS, I THINK THE FIRST MEETING IN DECEMBER.

OKAY. SO THAT'D BE THE WAY THAT IT TECHNICALLY READS IS THE ELECTION RULES ARE CERTIFIED, WHICH WOULD BE IN NOVEMBER.

BUT, I MEAN, I WOULDN'T MOVE ANYTHING IN NOVEMBER KNOWING THAT YOU WERE HAVING A CHANGE OF COMMISSION IN DECEMBER, I WOULD HOLD IT UNTIL YOU WOULD HAVE THE SAME COMMISSION SITTING FOR BOTH READINGS.

THAT DOESN'T SEEM FAIR TO A PARTICULAR APPLICANT OR TO THE COMMISSIONERS THEMSELVES.

OKAY. IN WHICH, FOR THE RECORD, I THINK THAT IS I TOLD KELLY THIS, I THINK IT'S SILLY THAT YOU HOLD ANNEXATIONS, ESPECIALLY FOR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES BECAUSE.

NO ONE COMMERCIALLY CAN VOTE.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING OR COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL.

NOBODY HAS RESIDENCY, SO THEY CAN'T VOTE.

IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING.

THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

AND EVEN RESIDENTIALLY, NO, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO BUILD A PROJECT.

YEAH. DEVELOP, PERMIT, BUILD IT.

HAVE SOMEONE MOVE IN THERE IN A IN A SEVEN MONTH WINDOW.

SO THERE'S NO POPULATION CHANGE.

I THINK IT'S JUST GARBAGE REALLY.

BUT DECEMBER 31ST.

ALL RIGHT. ITEM NUMBER FIVE IS PUBLIC COMMENT.

WOULD ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WANT TO COMMENT? THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING BEFORE I WAS YEAH, IT WAS A GREAT DISCUSSION AND A LOT FOR ME TO GO BACK AND THINK ABOUT, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ANNEXATION, YOU COME OVER HERE, GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

YOU BROUGHT UP THE ANNEXATION AND WE ALWAYS APPRECIATE PUBLIC COMMENT.

OKAY. THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO COME BEFORE THIS BOARD.

WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.