[00:00:02]
ONE? >> YOU NEVER KNOW. GOT TO
[1. CALL TO ORDER]
BRING IT JUST IN CASE. >> GOOD EVENING OR AFTERNOON , LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. WE ARE CALLING THIS WORKSHOP OF THE FERNANDINA BEACH CITY COMMISSION. WE WILL START WITH
>> PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY VICE MAYOR
STURGES . >> THIS AFTERNOON, THE ONLY
[4.1 JACKSONVILLE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - CLASS C AIRSPACE MODIFICATION - Airport Director Sam Carver will provide a presentation on the Jacksonville International Airport's proposed Class C airspace modification.]
ITEM ON OUR CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP IS WE HAVE OUR AIRPORT DIRECTOR SAM CARVER HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT SOME NEW TALKS WITH THE FAA. WE HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM MR. CARVER.ARE YOU READY TO GO? THERE YOU GO. COME ON DOWN. WELCOME.
>> YOU KNOW, SO, I WAS INVITED TO ATTEND AN AD HOC COMMITTEE MEETING BY THE FAA , SPECIFICALLY THE FAA JACKSONVILLE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL TOWER. THE REASON FOR THAT MEETING IS THAT THEY HAVE PROPOSED A MODIFICATION OF THE CLASS C AIRSPACE. ALSO, PART OF THAT MEETING WOULD LEAD TO OFFICIALLY CREATE THE AD HOC MEETING COMMITTEE TO GIVE RECOMMENDATIONS AND PROVIDE A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION TO THE FAA. SO , WHAT IS THIS PROPOSAL? CURRENTLY , THERE IS CLASS C AIRSPACE THAT SURROUNDS JACKSONVILLE INTERNATION AIRPORT . FERNANDINA BEACH HAS WHAT WE CALL UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE. THE PILOT DOES NOT HAVE TO TALK TO AN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER. THAT IS USUALLY PREFERRED BY MOST PRIVATE PILOTS . SO , THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON JUST THE AIRPORT BUT THE COMMUNITY. WE HAD THIS MEETING. THE FAA BROUGHT ALL OF THEIR PEOPLE FROM DC, A VERY IMPRESSIVE GROUP, AND KIND OF GAVE THEIR REASONINGS FOR WHY THEY WANT TO DO THIS. OBVIOUSLY FOR THEM THEY HAVE SAFETY
CONCERNS THAT WHEN TRAFFIC -- >> WHAT DO THEY WANT TO DO?
>> OKAY , PAUL LEPAGE 18 REALLY QUICK. IT IS 18 ON THE BOTTOM.
>> OKAY. RIGHT HERE. THIS IS THE CURRENT AIRSPACE AROUND FERNANDINA BEACH AND JACKSONVILLE . JACKSONVILLE HAS THE TWO RINGS , FIVE MILES, 10 MILES OUT , YOU CAN SEE WHERE FERNANDINA BEACH AIRPORT IS, IT IS NOT IN THAT CONTROLLED AIRSPACE. GO TO THE NEXT PLACE -- PAGE, PLEASE.
THIS IS WHAT THEY WERE PROPOSING. THE RING WOULD EXTEND OUT OVER FERNANDINA BEACH , AND THEY SAY THAT WILL INCREASE SAFETY, BECAUSE WHEN THEY HAVE TRAFFIC COMING IN ON RUNWAY 26 , EVEN THOUGH IT IS AT A PRETTY HIGH ALTITUDE, THEY ARE SAYING THAT WHEN AIRCRAFT ARE DEPARTING FERNANDINA BEACH AIRPORT , BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE COMMUNICATIONS, SOMETIMES THOSE AIRCRAFT GET TOO CLOSE TO EACH OTHER AND THAT CAUSES AN INCIDENT, A CONFLICT INCIDENT. SO THEY ARE TRYING TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING . SO WHAT THAT WAS DUE TO OUR AIRSPACE, INSTEAD OF HAVING UNCONTROLLED, THEY WILL THEN HAVE A 1200 FOOT FLOOR OF THE AIRPORT AND -- SO STILL UNDER 1200 FEET PILOTS WOULD NOT HAVE TO TALK TO JACKSON CONTROL, BUT THAT IS A VERY COMPRESSED AREA. THAT IS WHY LOCAL PILOTS HAVE A CONCERN, BECAUSE PILOTS, PRIVATE PILOTS TYPICALLY TRY TO AVOID CLASS C AIRSPACE. IT IS KIND OF INTIMIDATING TO SPEAK TO THE TOWER WHEN YOU ARE FLYING, WHEN MOST OF THE TIME THEY DON'T HAVE TO. SO THE CONCERN OUR PILOTS HAVE IS THAT IS GOING TO CREATE MORE TRAFFIC UNDER THAT 1200 FOOT FLOOR, WHERE WE READY HAVE 1000 FEET IN OUR TRAFFIC PATTERN. THAT IS THE CONCERN OF THE PILOTS. ALSO A CONCERN WOULD BE A COULD CREATE MORE NOISE OVER A MORE SENSITIVE AREA. BECAUSE AGAIN, PILOTS FLYING THROUGH THIS AREA , THEY ARE EITHER GOING TO TRY TO GO AROUND THE CLASS C OR THEY ARE GOING TO GO DOWN UNDER 1200 FEET, SO COULD CREATE MORE TRAFFIC UNDER THE 1200 FOOT FLOOR. SO, THAT IS WHAT THEY
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DISCUSSED. THEY CREATED -- AND IT CAN ALSO HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR COMMERCIAL BUSINESS IS LIKE THE AIRPORT AS WELL. SO THAT'S ALSO A CONCERN. SO THE FAA HAD THIS MEETING AND INVITED CERTAIN STAKEHOLDERS AND WENT OVER THE DATA. THEY HAD A PRETTY COMPELLING AUDIENCE AND PLAYED SOME COMPELLING RECORDINGS OF SOME AIRLINERS COMING PRETTY CLOSE TO SOME IMAGES WHERE THEY HAD TO TAKE SOME PRETTY QUICK ACTIONS. NO , THEY FORMED THIS AD HOC COMMITTEE TO -- WE HAD THREE COCHAIRS. OUR JOB NOW IS TO HAVE MORE MEETINGS, COLLECT DATA , ASK FAA ALL THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE AND WHERE THEY COME UP WITH THIS, WHAT'S THE DATA, ARE THERE ANY OTHER SOLUTIONS, AND THEN WE WILL RETURN BACK TO THE FAA FOR A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION IN WRITING AND WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE BEST PATH TO MOVE FORWARD, BECAUSE THEY MAY JUST BE GETTING RID OF ONE SEEKING CONCERN BY CREATING ANOTHER. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE WHOLE AVIATION SYSTEM AS A WHOLE, NOT JUST JACKSONVILLE INTERNATION AIRPORT, BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC HERE TODAY. SO, GO TO PAGE 6 ON MY -- THERE MIGHT BE -- GO -- YEAH, GO DOWN. RIGHT THERE. SO, THIS, THIS WAS THE PROCESS FOR THIS PROPOSED MODIFICATION, THAT'S WHAT THE FAA CALLS IT. THEY DID A STAFF STUDY, AND THAT IS WHAT WAS PRESENTED TO US, INCLUDED IN THE AGENDA. WE FORMED THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON FEBRUARY 28TH.WE HAVE HAD ONE INFORMAL MEETING ALREADY , A ZOOM MEETING, AND THEN FROM THERE WE WILL PRESENT A WRITTEN RECOMMENDATION. WE WILL GO -- THE WHOLE BUREAUCRACY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND THEN IF IT IS SOMETHING THE FAA WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD, IT IS PROBABLY A YEAR AWAY EVEN MORE BEFORE IT COMES BACK. IT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT IS KIND OF A BIG DEAL. OUR LOCAL PILOTS ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS. YOU KNOW, THE FAA, YOU KNOW, THE BIG CONCERN IS THAT IT IS GOING TO COMPRESS ALL OF THIS TRAFFIC UNDER 1200 FEET
AROUND FERNANDINA HERE? >> WHAT IS TRAFFIC NORMALLY
LIKE? >> A GHOST 3000, 4000, UP TO 9000. FOR EXAMPLE NOW, IF A JET IS TAKING OFF OUT OF FERNANDINA BEACH , HE DOES NOT HAVE TO CALL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL. HE CAN JUST TAKE OFF, AND PRETTY QUICKLY HE IS IN, YOU KNOW, UP THERE, OUT OF 1200 RIGHT AWAY. MOST PILOTS WOULD HAVE TO CALL JACKSON CONTROL JUST TO GET PERMISSION TO DEPART FERNANDINA BEACH , BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE OFF AND THEN STAY UNDER 1200.
>> DOES IT COST MONEY TO CALL , LET'S PRETEND LIKE WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AIRPLANES. HOW DOES, IS AT A COST TO RADIO THE TOWER OR IS THAT PART OF THE SERVICES?
>> NO, IT IS PART OF THE SERVICES. IS JUST NOT
FAVORABLE BY LOCAL PILOTS. >> OKAY.
>> SO IT SOUNDS LIKE 1200 IS PRETTY EXTREME, SO LET'S SAY A GULF STREAM OR A BIGGER AIRPLANE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PULL OUT. THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FLY UNDER 1200 FOR HOW FAR BEFORE THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO -- OR THEY JUST COULD RADIO
-- >> LET ME CLARIFY. THEY GET PERMISSION FROM THE TOWER BEFORE THEY TAKE OFF. IT, AND THAT IS WHAT MOST OF YOUR JET TRAFFIC PROBABLY WILL DO ANYHOW, BECAUSE THEY ARE IFR. MOST OF THEM ARE GOING TO DO THAT ANYHOW. THAT IS THE FEEDBACK WE GOT FROM THE FAA IS , WE AREN'T COMPRESSING ANY TRAFFIC UNDER 1200. WE JUST WANT TO TALK. WE WANT TO KNOW WHEN EVERYONE IS DOING, BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO THE PILOT, TYPICALLY WHEN IT GETS BUSY , THEY DON'T WANT TO MESS WITH TALKING TO THE, YOU KNOW, LITTLE ONES, AND THERE IS WAIT TIME AND CONCERN ABOUT THAT.
THAT IS THEIR ARGUMENT BACK TO US IS THAT --
>> SO IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD BE JUST MORE OF A NUISANCE THAN ANYTHING FOR THE LOCAL PILOTS.
>> AND THE SAFETY. IF MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING COMPRESSED, BECAUSE IT IS STILL GOING TO HAPPEN. THERE ARE STILL GOING TO BE A LOT OF PILOTS THAT AREN'T GOING TO CALL AND CHOOSE TO STANDARD 1200, AND THAT WILL CREATE THE
CONGESTION. >> THE REALITY OF YOUR REPORT HAS TWO GROUPS OF PILOTS GENERALLY SPEAKING. THEY HAVE
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PROFESSIONAL PILOTS WHO FLY THE JETS WHO ROUTINELY, FOR THEM I WOULD THINK, DEAL WITH AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL. IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY DO ALL THE TIME ANYHOW PROFESSIONALLY. AND THEN WE HAVE THE NONPROFESSIONAL PILOTS , AND IT'S REALLY THE NONPROFESSIONAL PILOTS THAT THIS IS MOSTLY GOING TO AFFECT , BECAUSE OF PROFESSIONAL PILOTS, THIS IS WHAT THEY DO ANYHOW.>> CORRECT. >> SO WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS NONPROFESSIONAL PILOTS, AND MOST OF THEM DON'T EVER DEAL WITH ARE SELDOM DEAL WITH AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL. IS THAT
CORRECT? >> SELDOM. YES. MUCH LESS.
>> SO THAT IS REALLY THE CONCERN. THE CONCERN IS TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, IS GOING TO PUSH MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE UNDER 1200 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS GOING TO CREATE MORE NOISE ALLOW IT, AND NUMBER TWO, THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE PEOPLE IN
AT UNDER 1200 FEET HIGH . >> CORRECT.
>> AND MOST OF THAT IS WHAT I WOULD CALL NONPROFESSIONAL ,
NONPROFESSIONAL PILOTS. >> YES. A LOT OF STUDENT PILOTS. SO YOU WILL HAVE A LOT OF STUDENT PILOTS COMING FROM THE JACKSONVILLE AREA THAT ARE ALREADY IN THAT PATTERN.
>> WHAT WAS THE RESPONSE OF JACKSONVILLE TO YOUR CONCERN -- FORMALLY ADDRESSED IT, BUT THEY DID INTERJECT SOMEBODY FROM DC , THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID. WE ARE NOT COMPRESSING ANYTHING. WE JUST WANT TO TALK TO EVERYBODY.
THAT SOUNDS GOOD, BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO ALL OF THE PILOT --
>> THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO.
>> THAT IS NOT WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS. HOW DO WE PROVE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. HAS THIS HAPPENED AT OTHER AIRPORTS , THAT THEY'VE TRIED THIS, SO THAT IS PART OF THE RESEARCH.
WE ARE DOING COLLECTIVE DATA . NOW THERE MIGHT BE, IT SEEMS LIKE TALKING TO SOME OF THE PILOTS , THERE MIGHT BE AN ACCEPTABLE COMPROMISE. THEY WENT PRETTY EXTREME WITH THE 1200. IF THEY COULD RAISE THAT TO MAKE IT 2500 , AND TALK -- WE EVEN HAVE SOME AIRLINE PILOTS IN OUR MEETINGS HELPING US, AND AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS. THERE IS NO REASON WHY JACKSONVILLE SHOULD END, THAT SHOULDN'T BE ACCEPTABLE TO JACKSONVILLE APPROACH IF WE RAISE THE FLORIDA 2500. IS JUST TYPICALLY THAT IS NOT WHAT A CLASS C IS. IT'S USUALLY A PRETTY STANDARD 1200 AND 4000. I COULD SEE THE AD HOC
COMMITTEE RECOMMENDING THAT. >>
>> THEY JUST , THAT MIGHT , THEY STILL HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SEPARATION . THEY SHOULD STILL BE AT 4000 FEET WHEN THEY ARE COMING IN ON THEIR FINAL APPROACH, BUT IF SOMEBODY COMES OUT OF FERNANDINA BEACH AIRPORT , SAY THEY GET RIGHT AT THAT 2500 , THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE, LIKE, A CERTAIN -- AND NOBODY CAN TELL US EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
APPARENTLY IT IS THESE COMPUTERS AND AI TO MAKE THE ALARMS GO OFF. IT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, 1000 FEET FROM HERE AND 1000 FEET FROM HERE, SO THAT MIGHT STILL NOT BE FAR ENOUGH SEPARATION , IF THAT MAKES SENSE. I'M SORRY, I ASKED A PILOT TO BE HERE AS WELL, BUT THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT.
>> SO HOW IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT -- THE 1500 --
INAUDIBLE ] >> IT COULD MAKE IT IN MY OPINION LESS SAFE WITH THE CONGESTED AIR-TRAFFIC. IT COULD CREATE MORE NOISE OVER FERNANDINA , NOT JUST THE AIRPORT , AND IT COULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE BUSINESSES AT THE AIRPORT. IT COULD BE MAINTENANCE PEOPLE THAT MAY BE ARE AVOIDING THE AIRPORT JUST FOR THAT REASON. WE HAVE TWO SKYDIVE OPERATIONS THAT IT COULD HAVE A SERIOUS IMPACT ON
THEIR BUSINESS. >> IN WHAT WAY?
>> BECAUSE , THEY TYPICALLY DON'T ALLOW SKYDIVERS IN CLASS C AIRSPACE. NOW I WAS TOLD THEY COULD , BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET PERMISSION , AND THEY COULD MAKE THEM GO UP AND THEY ARE WAITING TO GET CLEARANCE AND THEY ARE FLYING AROUND FOR AN EXTRA 30 MINUTES. THEY COULD PUT A BIG HURT ON
THEIR REVENUES. >> SO ULTIMATELY THE LOCAL PILOTS, YOU COULD FIND A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM THAT GO -- I'M JUST GOING TO STAY UNDER 1200 FEET, I'M NEVER GOING TO CONTACT THEM ? 1500 FEET OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, THEY
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COULD JUST CHOOSE TO DO THAT? >> YES.
>> ALL RIGHT, WELL , I'M JUST NOT GOING TO GO ABOVE THAT , AND I AM GOING TO CRUISE AROUND, YOU KNOW, SO IT WILL
CAUSE A LOT MORE NOISE. >> YES. YEAH. THEY COULD STAY, LIKE, WHERE TYPICALLY THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T REACH THE SOUTH END OF THE ISLAND, THEY WOULD BE AT A MUCH HIGHER ALTITUDE, BUT THEY COULD STILL BE UNDER 1200 SQUARE FEET FURTHER SOUTH OR FURTHER NOTE. -- NORTH.
>> QUESTIONS FOR YOU. I KNOW THE AD HOC MIDI HAS NOT ISSUED THIS RECOMMENDATION YET , AND THAT COMPROMISE SOUNDS INTRIGUING ABOUT THE 2500 FOOT FLOOR . MY QUESTION IS IT SEEMS BASED ON WHAT I KNOW ABOUT THE FAA IS THAT THE FAA USUALLY JUST GETS WHAT THEY WANT. HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT THE FAA WILL SIMPLY GET WHAT THEY WANT HERE? HAVE THEY IN THE PAST COME TO THE TABLE AND NEGOTIATED WITH TOWNS SUCH AS OURS?
>> OF COURSE AT THIS MEETING THEY TOLD US THEY WERE THERE TO LISTEN TO OUR RECOMMENDATION, AND IT SOUNDED BELIEVABLE, BUT PASTE -- BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE, I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS BEFORE, THEY TYPICALLY GET WHAT THEY WANT, BECAUSE THEY CAN CLAIM SAFETY AS THEIR CONCERN, AND THEY CAN SHOW THAT.
>> BASED ON THAT PICTURE I SAW JUST BRIEFLY, WHERE IT LOOKS
LIKE THE NORTH END -- >> AND YOU GO BACK TO THAT
PLEASE? >> IT LOOKS LIKE THE NORTH END IS NOT COVERED. PROJECTOR GULF STREAM WOULD NOT HAVE TO READ IF THEY TOOK US STRAIGHT TOWARDS THE ATLANTIC OCEAN AND DIDN'T APPROACH 1200 FEET UNTIL AFTER THEY CROSSED THAT PURPLE LINE. AM I READING THAT CORRECTLY?
>> THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO, BUT A JET IS TYPICALLY -- THEY ARE GOING TO BE TALKING. JETS ARE GOING TO BE TALKING TO THE
TOWER REGARDLESS. >> BUT A RECREATIONAL PILOT -- BELOW. THAT WAS ONE OF THOSE SAFETY CONCERNS WE BROUGHT UP ALSO. YOU HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC JUST TO TRAVERSING THE COAST, AND THEY ARE GOING TO SEE THAT AND THEY ARE GOING TO SAY, WELL I AM JUST GOING TO GO OUT. SO NOW YOU HAVE THEM HAVING A SAFETY ISSUE BECAUSE IF THEY ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE AIRCRAFT THEY WON'T MAKE IT TO THE AIRPORT AS QUICKLY. WE BROUGHT THAT UP AS A CONCERN ALSO.
>> I KNOW THOSE ARE SMALLER AIRPORTS LIKE OURS, BUT WHY ARE THERE BLUE CIRCLES AROUND THOSE AIRPORTS? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> THOSE ARE CONTROLLED, SO THEY HAVE TOWERS. YES. THEY HAVE THEIR AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROL.
>> UNDERSTOOD. >> IT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON SOME OTHER COMMUNITIES TO THE WEST ALSO , SO THEY ARE
INCLUDED IN THE AD HOC. >> AND MY FINAL QUESTION IS I AM NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH RESTRICTED FLIGHTS OWNS LIKE THIS. IS THIS A STANDARD SHAPE OF ONE? THE ONE BEFORE WAS NOT
LIKE THIS SHAPE. >> TYPICALLY IT IS TWO CIRCLES.
A FIVE MILE RADIUS AND THEN A NAUTICAL MILE, AND THEN A 10 NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS AROUND IT , AROUND MOST AIRPORTS.
>> I'M JUST NOTICING THAT FLARE OUT SEEMS TO HIT HER
COMMUNITY -- >> THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL. THAT IS PART OF THE DISCUSSION WE ARE HAVING , IS THAT, IF YOU COULD JUSTIFY THIS, THEN WHY AREN'T YOU JUST BECOMING A CLASS D AIRPORT, OR SOMETHING BIGGER IF IT IS REALLY JUSTIFIED. IT IS AN EVEN MORE CONTROLLED, BIGGER RINGS, BIGGER RESTRICTIONS. SO THIS IS NOT NORMAL .
>> MY QUESTION, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD JUST BE A STANDARD CIRCLE IS WHAT THEY WOULD PUT THEIR NORMALLY.
>> TYPICALLY YES. >> FOR REFERENCE --
] >> YES. SO I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS MADE WITH THAT PART OUT, WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO CHANGE
THAT TO. >> COMMISSIONER AYSCUE
>> THERE ARE A COUPLE, WELL I THINK THERE MIGHT BE ONE PRIVATE AIRSTRIP , BUT ON THE NEW MODEL THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO PRIVATE AIRSTRIPS THAT I KNOW OF. THEY WOULD HAVE TO
FOLLOW THE SAME REGULATIONS? >> YES.
>> DO THEY KNOW IT IS ANYBODY THAT CONTACTS THEM KNOW?
>> I KNOW , I KNOW ALL THE -- PRIVATE THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE
FAA. >> WHERE EXACTLY ON THE MAP IS
THE AIRPORT? >> THE RED AIRPLANE AT THE TOP WHERE IT SAYS, SO, THIS IS THE APPROACH FOR --
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RIGHT THERE. >> AND THANK YOU WE GO BACK TO THE PROCESS PICTURE IF YOU DON'T MIND, JUST SO I CAN SPEND A BIT MORE TIME ON HOW THIS WORKS. RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN THIS AD HOC COMMITTEE, BUT A DECISION IS MADE BY THE FAA AND
THE FAA ALONE IN THIS? >> YES.
>> AT THE END OF THE DAYTHEY HEAR PUBLIC COMMENT AND TO MAKE
A JUDGMENT CALL. >> YES. I CAN SEE, LET'S SEE, I THINK I HAD A PAGE -- YEAH, THAT IS THE ONLY PROCESS.
>> GOT IT. OKAY. SO THE PEOPLE -- SO IMA THIS ISN'T SOMETHING WHERE WE WOULD WANT, LIKE, IT IS NOT AN OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WE WOULD NEED TO CALL. YOU ARE MANAGING THAT ON
BEHALF OF THE CITY. >> AND THEY ONLY INVITED CERTAIN HOLDERS AND LIMITED IT TO JUST THE LOCALS.
>> AWESOME. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. CARPER? THIS IS AN EYE-OPENING PRESENTATION. ANYTHING YOU WANT TO CLOSE
WITH? >> KNOW. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU WERE AWARE OF IT BECAUSE IT
COULD BE A BIG IMPACT. >> OF COURSE. THAT WAS THE ONLY ITEM ON HERE FOR DISCUSSION. WE DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF REMAINING WORKSHOP TIME. WE DO LIKE TO OPEN IT UP FOR ANY NONBINDING DISCUSSION, BECAUSE KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS NOT AN AGENDA AND MEETING. WE CAN DISCUSS WHATEVER YOU NEED TO
>> OKAY MR. ANTUN. >> WE HAVE ALL HAD MULTIPLE DISCUSSIONS I THINK BOTH IN THIS MEETING AND OUTSIDE ABOUT THE WATERFRONT PLAN , AND I THINK I HAVE A SMALL BUT POTENTIALLY CRITICAL COMPROMISE THAT WE CAN MAKE , SO I WANTED TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY CONSENSUS ON PROPOSING TO DIRECT STAFF TO THIS PLAN. I WANT TO BEGIN BY SAYING THAT I AM IN FAVOR OF THE PLANET SEEING IT TO COME TO FRUITION WHERE OTHER PLANTS HAVE FAILED, AND THE KEY WORD HERE IS COMPROMISE. BUT I WAS NOT WILLING TO DO AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING WAS BLOCK THE PROGRESS DUE TO LACK OF SUPPORT FOR CERTAIN DETAILS, AND ON A FALSE BASIS OF WASTING TAXPAYER DOLLARS, AND FOR THE CITIZENS EDIFICATION I WANT ALL OF YOU TO HEAR IN PUBLIC COMMENT HERE THAT THE IMPACT FEES ARE PAID BY NEW DEVELOPMENT FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT. THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT A FEW OF OUR RESIDENTS HAVE REQUESTED INCLUDING IMPROVEMENTS ON EXISTING FACILITIES , AND IS NOT A FEASIBLE USE OF THOSE FUNDS. SO I THINK AFTER MEETING WITH A NUMBER OF RESIDENTS , WE SPENT 45 MINUTES TALKING DOWN AT THE WATERFRONT, AND I TREAT ABOUT 30 PATIENTS, AND WHEN I ASK THEM WHAT THEY ASKED ME ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND HAVE HAD QUITE A BIT OF FEEDBACK ABOUT GENERALLY SUGGESTING THAT WE MAKE A SMALL MODIFICATION TO PIVOT WHAT IS CURRENTLY BEING PROPOSED IS FLEX BASED TO JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DEFINITIVE PARKING SUCH AS WHEEL STOPS AND TO STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE FOR THE BATON TOURNAMENT TO BE THERE, BUT ALSO TO BE MORE REASONABLE IN ALLOWING FOR PARKING WHEN WE DO NEED IT . I WANTED TO SEE WHAT THE
CONSENSUS WAS. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER
ANTUN. COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> I LIKE TO POINT OUT WE DON'T HAVE CONCEPTUAL ENGINEERING TO POINT OUT A CONCEPTUAL PLAN . WE HAVE
>> NO, WE DON'T . WHO IS DOING THE PLAN?
>> EXCUSE ME, THOMAS AND TUCKER ARE DOING THE PLAN. THAT WILL PLAN WILL BE TO US BY THE END OF APRIL , AND IT WOULD SEEM TO ME AT THAT TIME, THAT WOULD BE THE TIME TO LOOK AT WHAT IS PROPOSED, WHAT THEY HAVE THERE, AND MAKE ANY MODIFICATIONS. THAT IS NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, THE TRC HAS ALREADY PASSED THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR THIS , AND UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING LAWS , THE PARKING ALLOWED ON THAT IS ONE SPACE PER 65,000 SQUARE FEET OF ACTIVE PARK SPACE, SO THAT GIVES YOU APPROXIMATELY 65,000 SQUARE FEET OF GREEN SPACE, WHICH GIVES YOU 65 PARKING SPACES, PLUS YOU CAN GO ANOTHER 10%, SO WE ARE NOW AT 71. SO WE ARE, QUOTE, ALREADY OVER PARKS ACCORDING TO OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. SO WHAT I WOULD PREFER TO DO IS WAIT FOR THOMAS HUTTON TO COME BACK WITH THEIR PLAN, AND THEN CERTAINLY HAVE AN OPEN DISCUSSION WITH THE COMMUNITY AND WHOEVER ELSE WANTS TO LOOK AT IT AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO PROPOSE. SO IF THEY ARE NOW PROPOSING THIS IMA THEY ARE DESIGNING IT, LET'S SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO PROPOSE . I THINK IT WOULD BE A MORE PRUDENT WAY
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OF PROCEEDING. >> THANK YOU MR. ROSS. VICE
MAYOR STURGES. >> I HAVE BEEN A PROPONENT FOR AN OPEN PARK WITH MORE PARKING. I THINK WE CAN MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT WITH THE CODE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF ADDITIONAL PARKING, AND NOT HAVE A TALK DOWN THERE WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT. THAT IS MY FEELINGS.
>> VICE MAYOR. >> I HAVE A QUESTION. WE HAVE THIS PLAN COMING AT THE END OF APRIL. WHEN WE LOOK TO SEE THAT ON A FUTURE AGENDA? IS AT THE FIRST MEETING IN MAY?
>> I HOPE SO, YES. WHAT THEY ARE WORKING ON, THE LAST THING WE TALKED ABOUT , THAT AREA TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL PARKING IS A MULTIUSE AREA. IT IS NOT DESIGNATED FOR ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR. MY CONCERN -- YOU DESIGNATE THAT AREA AS PARKING, THEN YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE IT FOR ANYTHING ELSE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AREA BEING USED AT THE PARK, BUT I WOULD NOT DESIGNATE IT AS PARKING BECAUSE THAT PUTS US IN THE SAME TYPE OF RABBIT HOLE THAT -- NEEDS TO BE AN OPEN SPACE THAT CAN BE USED FOR WHATEVER IT
NEEDS TO BE USED FOR. >> THANK YOU -- MY POSITION AGAIN , YOU KNOW, I AM INDIFFERENT TO THE PARK PLAN IN GENERAL. I THINK IT IS A GOOD PLAN. IT IS AN EASY PLAN. THE REASON I LEAN TOWARDS IT IS BECAUSE WE WILL GET AWAY FROM CLOSING DOWN CITY STREETS AND BEING ABLE TO MOVE EVENTS THERE. I HAVE SAID FROM THE GET-GO THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S THE BEST USE OF THOSE COURTS. THE BEST USE OF THAT SPACE. I UNDERSTAND THE PARKING ISSUE. I WOULD BE WILLING TO ADDRESS IT IN A COMP PLAN ASPECT IF THAT IS WHAT WE NEEDED, OR IF WE JUST TOOK THAT LINE THAT IS ALREADY KIND OF GOING THAT WAY, JUST KIND OF FINISHED DRYING IT OUT AND THEN FILL THAT BACK IN WITH GRASS AND HAVE IT JUST BE A MULTIUSE AREA THAT IS GRASS OR WHATEVER. IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. IT IS ADDING MORE , MAY BE FIVE MORE SPOTS, I DON'T KNOW. I AM LOOKING AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF, YOU KNOW , THIS, THIS ONE ISSUE OF ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE GOT GOING ON IN THE PARK, THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MOST CONTENTIOUS PART OF IT , AND IF WE CAN, IF WE CAN GET A GOOD -- AND I LIKE COMMISSIONER ANTUN'S WORD, "COMPROMISE." TO FIND A GOOD COMPROMISE WITH THIS PARK SO WE NOW GO FROM A PRETTY HIGH APPROVAL RATING TO 98% APPROVAL RATING OF THE CITIZENS. I THINK IT IS A WIN-WIN-WIN. I'M WILLING TO LOOK INTO ANY OF THIS WHEN THE TIME COMES, OR NOW . IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. I WANTED TO REITERATE THE POSITION OF WHERE I AM, WHERE I HAVE BEEN THE ENTIRE TIME WITH IT. YOU KNOW, I CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT ALL OF THAT.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THIS. I KIND OF AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER ROSS. LET'S GET THE PLANS FROM THE CONSULTANTS, AND THEN WE CAN DISSECT IT, MODIFY IT OR WHATEVER, BUT IF WE GET TOO FAR ALONG AND START DOING THIS, THIS WENT THROUGH CRA, ACC, TRC, AND PARKS AND REC ADVISORY, SO IF WE WANT TO MAKE CHANGES WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THAT AGAIN. SO LET US WAIT AND SEE WHAT WE GET , THE FINAL CONCEPT PLAN IS, AND THEN HE CAN DISSECT IT AND MAKE CHANGES ALL YOU WANT. THAT IS WHY IT IS A CONCEPT PLAN AND NOT GOING TO CONSTRUCTION. I THINK WE ARE JUMPING THE GUN A BIT RIGHT
NOW. >> THANK YOU MR. GEORGE. I WILL MAKE COMMENTS ON THIS RIGHT NOW. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND COMMISSIONERS , WE ARE AT THE ONE YARD LINE HERE. WE ARE AT THE ONE-YARD LINE OF A WATERFRONT PARK THAT HAS BEEN DECADES IN THE MAKING. IT HAS BEEN DECADES IN THE MAKING.
THERE WAS SO MUCH BUZZ ABOUT WHAT THIS COULD BE FOR THE FUTURE, AND WHAT IT IS IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WILL GO AND ENJOY THE RIVER, A PLACE FOR ALL. RIGHT NOW SOMETHING WE HEAR FROM THE CITIZENS IS THAT THE POCKET PARK THAT WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE , THERE IS, THERE IS A BUSINESS. THE OWNER OF THAT IS NOW GOING TO BUILD A BUSINESS THERE. THAT POCKET PARK IS STARTING TO GO AWAY. THE WAY WE WILL COUNTER THAT IS BY HAVING A LARGE, OPEN, BEAUTIFUL OUTDOOR SPACE WITH NICE, NATIVE SHADE TREES THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN GO AND ENJOY.
THAT IS WHY WE ARE DOING THIS. IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR A LONG TIME. IT IS BECAUSE THE PUBLIC DESERVES THIS RIVER. SO IF IT TAKES , IF IT TAKES A COMPROMISE LIKE THIS TO MAKE THIS A REALITY, IF IT TAKES A COMPROMISE HERE , THERE IS A LITTLE CORNER OF IT THAT ALL OF
[00:30:10]
THIS DISCUSSION IS ABOUT. THERE IS A LITTLE CORNER OF IT. IF IT TAKES A COMPROMISE TO MAKE THAT VISION A REALITY, WE HAVE TO MAKE A COMPROMISE AND MOVE FORWARD. BUT WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY THE PROCESS IS HERE IS I THINK THAT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO MAKE THAT FINAL DECISION NOW, JUST AS MR. GEORGE POINTED OUT, WHICH I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH. WE HAVE A PLAN THE FIRST MEETING OF MAY, AND WE ARE GOING TO COME AND LOOK AT IT AND WITH THAT ENGINEERING DRAWING, WE CAN MAKE ALL THESE TWEAKS. I WILL TAKE 98% OF THIS PLAN I THINK EVERYONE AGREES WITH. IT'S JUST HOW CAN WE MAKE IT HAPPEN. NOW I WILL MAKE A BOLD STATEMENT HERE. WHILE I WOULD BE WILLING TO MAKE IT LESS SPECIFIC FOR ANY ONE PARTICULAR USE , I AM NOT WILLING TO CUT IN TO THE GREEN SPACE TO ADD PARKING. I'M NOT WILLING TO CUT IN TO THE GREEN SPACE TO ADD PARKING. THE COMPROMISES CAN WE PLANT MORE GRASS, ADD MORE TREES, MAKE IT FOR ALL RATHER THAN FOR JUS A FEW. WHERE I'M NOT WILLING -- BECAUSE KEEP IN MIND, THE PLAN DOES ADD ADDITIONAL SPOTS. IS THERE A WAY WE CAN LOOK AT IT TO ADD SPOTS, BUT WHAT I AM NOT WILLING TO DO IS TO CUT INTO THAT FOOTPRINT , TO ADD PARKING. I DON'T THINK -- AND I FINALLY WANT TO FINISH WITH THIS. THE FUTURE, RIGHT. HOW WOULD THEY LOOK BACK ON US IF WE CUT INTO THIS PARK TO ADD PARKING. RIGHT NOW WE ARE AT A PIVOTAL MOMENT. I THINK ADDING PARKING, IF WE CUT IN AND ADD PARKING, IT WOULD BE LIKE IN THE YEAR 1999 THE CITY COMMISSION SAYING LET'S PUT NEW PHONE BOOTHS AROUND TOWN.THERE COULD BE A FUTURE WHERE WE DON'T NEED AS MUCH PARKING THE WAY THE WORLD IS GOING RIGHT NOW. WITH ALL OF THAT IN MIND, WITH ALL OF THAT IN MIND, I THINK WE HAVE THE SPOTS THAT THE PLAN WILL ADD, BUT WE DON'T CUT INTO THE GREEN SPACE. WITH THAT IN MIND AND WILLING TO COMPROMISE. WE JUST NEED TO LOOK AT THE PICTURE WHEN THE PICTURE COMES BACK THE FIRST MEETING OF MAY. ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS COMMISSION? REEMPHASIZE I'M NOT IN A RUSH TO MAKE A DECISION THIS EVENING, BUT SOME OF THE CITIZENS WHO VOICED CONCERNS OR AT LEAST DESERVING TO HEAR THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AND MAYBE IT WILL PUT CONCERNS AT BAY .
>> I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT IT UP BECAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE THAT TALK, AND WE KNOW PROJECTED, WE AREN'T READY TO COMMIT, BUT WE ARE SEEING THE FIRST MEETING OF MAY WE WILL LOOK AT THIS AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION SO THAT WAY EVERYBODY KNOWS WE WILL BE HAVING THAT TALK IN MAY. THAT SOUNDS GOOD. ANY OTHER TOPICS?
>> INAUDIBLE ] CALLING INTO THE MEETING. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A TOPIC? ALL RIGHT. SEEING NONE,
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.