Jan 02, 2024 Workshop

[1. CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:08]

THIS WORKSHOP OF THE FERNANDINA BEACH CITY COMMISSION IS CALLED TO ORDER. AS ALWAYS WE WILL CALL THE

]ROLL CALL. >>

>> ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE OURSELVES A HARD-HITTING WORKSHOP TODAY WITH SOME GREAT STUFF ON IT. PRESENTATION ITEM , IS THAT, IS THAT FOR US TO LOOK AT REALLY QUICK, OR IS THERE A

PRESENTATION? >> THERE IS NO PRESENTATION,

MAYOR. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER AYSCUE TO REMIND ME , WE NOW RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TONIGHT.

I AM SO SORRY. GO AHEAD . >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER GOD , INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

>> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER AYSCUE. I'M GOING TO CALL --

[5.1 LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE - DENSITY - This item is placed on the agenda at the request of Commissioner Ross who will lead discussion, at the pleasure of the Mayor, related to decreasing the Land Development Code density.]

PUTTING THIS ON THE AGENDA IS COMMISSIONER ROSS. YOU HAVE THE

FLOOR , SIR. >> SO , WE LIVE ON A BARRIER ISLAND , AND WE ARE NEAR CAPACITY FOR THE AMOUNT, INTENSITY , AND THE DENSITY FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT IS SUSTAINABLE ON THIS BARRIER ISLAND. I BELIEVE THAT THE MAXIMUM DENSITY FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO BE 10 UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE CURRENT HIGH DENSITY NOW IN THE CITY, AND THE HIGHEST DENSITY ALLOWED IN THE COUNTY.

I WOULD LIKE THE COMMISSION TO RECOMMEND CHANGING IT , THE ESSENTIAL BUSINESS DISTRICT DENSITY CURRENT 18 -- ESSENTIAL BUSINESS DISTRICTS TO 10 UNITS PER ACRE. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS THOUGHTS ON THIS

SUBJECT. >> ANY DISCUSSION? VICE MAYOR

STURGES . >> THANK YOU, MAYOR . MY

QUESTION IS -- >> IF YOU COULD PUT, I'M SORRY.

THAT IS RIGHT OUT OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

>> THANK YOU COMMISSIONER ROSS. VICE MAYOR STURGES .

>> MY QUESTION IS DIDN'T THIS GET STRUCTURED OR RESTRUCTURED IN 2018? THAT IS MY QUESTION. I THINK THAT IS THE YEAR THAT THAT STRUCTURE GOT RESTRUCTURED. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM STAFF THE REASONING IT WAS STRUCTURED OR RESTRUCTURED IN 2018 TO THE DENSITY THAT WE NOW HAVE. WHAT

IS THE REASONING AND WHY. >> WE WELCOME MS. KELLY GIBSON TO THE ODEON PIERCING THAT KELLY GIBSON, PLANNING AND CONSERVATION. I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION. IN 2016 WE WERE DIRECTED AS A STAFF TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE COULD ALLOW FOR MORE PERMANENT RESIDENTIAL POPULATIONS IN A DOWNTOWN AREA. BEFORE THAT , WE HAD A DENSITY BONUS INCENTIVE PROGRAM . PROPERTIES WITHIN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT AND WITHIN THE CRA ARE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE DENSITY INCENTIVES THROUGH DIFFERENT MEASURES THAT THEY COULD DO. THAT WERE DESIRED FOR THAT AREA. THE COMMISSION THEN LOOKED AT THAT AS BEING ALMOST TOO DIFFICULT OF STANDARDS TO ACHIEVE THOSE DENSITY BONUSES, AND BECAUSE THERE WAS A STRONG DESIRE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DOWNTOWN AREA WAS MORE VIABLE FOR PERMANENT RESIDENTIAL POPULATION , DIRECTED THAT WE LOOK AT ELEVATING DENSITY ACROSS THE BOARD FOR THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT. THAT EFFORT WAS COMPLETED IN 2016 , AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE THE 34 UNITS PER ACRE THAT WE HAVE TODAY. THE 34 UNITS PER ACRE, WHERE THAT CAME FROM, WAS LOOKING AT THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN OF YOUR CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT WITH THE UNDERLYING RECORD. THEY ARE TYPICALLY PLOTTED OUT AT ALMOST 18 UNITS , 17.7 UNITS PER ACRE

[00:05:04]

THAT IS WHERE 34 UNITS PER ACRE CAME FROM AT THAT POINT IN TIME. WITH RESPECT TO THE EIGHTH STREET OVERLAY AND THE EMU EIGHT ZONING DISTRICT IN THE LAND USE ASSOCIATED WITH IT, IT MUST DEVELOP WITH THE SAME ASSUMPTION OF WANTING TO HAVE A DOWNTOWN LIKE PATTERN. SO 18 UNITS PER ACRE IS WHAT WE ARRIVED AT IN ORDER TO PLACE THAT AS THE DENSITY FOR THAT

AREA. >> OKAY, KELLY. I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION BASED ON THAT INFORMATION . SO THAT WAS DONE WITH THE IDEA OF A THOUGHT PROCESS THAT MORE RESIDENTIAL HOUSING WAS NEEDED OR DESIRED DOWNTOWN.

>> THE INTENT WAS TO MAKE POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO DEVELOP MORE PERMANENT RESIDENTIAL POPULATION , INSTEAD OF HAVING WHAT WE ARE TYPICALLY SEEING A SECOND OR THIRD HOMES OR RENTAL UNITS BECOMING AVAILABLE WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, TO MAKE IT MORE ON PAR WITH THE ABILITY TO HAVE PERMANENT RESIDENTIAL VERSUS HAVING HOTEL ROOMS MADE AVAILABLE , AND ALSO SO THAT YOU ARE HAVING SMALLER UNITS THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY LIVE AND WORK DOWNTOWN INSTEAD OF IT BEING ONE LARGER UNIT THAT WAS MORE ACCOMMODATING FOR A SECOND OR THIRD HOME OR SEASONAL

POPULATION. >> OKAY, SO , I THINK THE SCARY FACT AND WHOLE REASON WE ARE DISCUSSING THIS OR MAYBE TRYING TO THINK ABOUT, AT LEAST ONE COMMISSIONER IT MAY BE MULTIPLE COME UP AT THE DENSITY ARE CHANGING THIS DENSITY IS THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE LIVE LOCAL ACT , AND HOW THAT AFFECTS OUR

CITY PROPERTIES , CORRECT? >> I BELIEVE THAT IS THE

IMPETUS. >> WHAT ONE PROPERTY ARE TWO PROPERTIES DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE THAT THIS ZONING ACTUALLY WILL BE , INVOLVE THE CITY CURRENTLY?

>> WITH THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT? 2 YES.

>> YOU HAVE SEVERAL PROJECTS GETTING STARTED THAT HAVE A ZONING DISTRICT AND ARE PLANNING TO TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE

OF THE 34 UNITS PER ACRE. >> OKAY. HAVE THOSE PROJECTS

BEEN SUBMITTED? >> THEY HAVE NOT AS OF YET, BUT THEY ARE WELL UNDERWAY IN THE DESIGN PHASE.

>> THAT'S THE REASON I'M ASKING THIS QUESTION. WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THIS OR TALK ABOUT SOME SORT OF CHANGE, WILL OR COULD WE AFFECT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE A PROBLEM WHERE WE END UP IN COURT AGAIN

ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? >> I CAN'T MAKE THAT --

>> I KNOW YOU CAN'T. I AM JUST SAYING THAT OUT THERE SO THE PUBLIC CAN HEAR. SO, I AM NOT OPPOSED TO LOOKING AT ANY SORT OF DIRECTION AS FAR AS THE MAXIMUM DENSITY THAT THE CITY COMMISSION WILL ENTERTAIN . I WILL JUST VERBALLY SAY THAT.

THANK YOU. >> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> WHILE SHE IS HERE, ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON?

>> I WAS GOING TO DEFER TO COMMISSIONER ROSS.

>> MY RECOLLECTION OF WHERE THE 34 UNITS CAME FROM IS YOU CAN PUT THE UNIT OVER OLDER BUILDINGS DOWNTOWN, SICA PUT TWO UNITS OVER THE BUILDING AND THAT IS WHERE THE NUMBER CAME

FROM BASICALLY. >> IS CORRECT, YES.

>> WHAT IS HAPPENED WITH THAT --

>> WE'VE HAD VERY LITTLE. WE'VE HAD TWO PROJECTS THAT HAVE

TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THAT. >> BUT WITH 10 UNITS PER ACRE YOU CAN STILL DO A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS. I MEAN, WHAT IS HAPPENED DOWNTOWN IS A HAVE BUILT BIG, BIG, AS THEY DID OVER ON SECOND STREET, BIG TOWNHOUSES, SINGLE UNIT, AND THAT IS WHAT HAS BASICALLY BEEN DONE WITH THAT, CORRECT?

>> THAT, WELL YOU HAVE MIXED-USE PROJECTS AS WELL AS TOWNHOME PROJECTS THAT HAVE BECOME AVAILABLE AS A RESULT OF IT, BUT NOT IN THE SAME WAY. YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET A MIXED-USE PROJECT. IS NOT REQUIRED THAT YOU DEVELOP IN

THAT WAY. >> THE ONE MIXED-USE PROJECT THAT WAS DONE COULD'VE BEEN DONE WITH 10 UNITS PER ACRE.

>> POTENTIALLY . >> POTENTIALLY, IT COULD HAVE.

>> IT COULD HAVE, BECAUSE I ONLY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF ONE

UNIT. THAT'S TRUE. >> YOU CAN STILL DO, I MEAN THE REAL REASON FOR THAT , AND I WAS OPPOSED TO IT AT THE TIME, WAS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO TAKE THE OLD BUILDINGS HERE AND TURN THEM INTO SECOND AND APARTMENTS ABOVE. IT TURNS OUT THOSE OLD BUILDINGS BECAUSE OF ALL THE BUILDING CODES AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IT IS JUST NOT ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE. SO, IT DIDN'T REALLY WORK OUT TO DO WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

>> YES. WE IDENTIFY THAT IS A CHALLENGE FOR PROJECTS TO ADAPT

IN THAT WAY. >> THANK YOU .

>> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER PICK ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MS.

[00:10:03]

THAT IS WHAT I'M THINKING, BUT THE POINT I'M TRYING TO ECHO FROM THE VICE MAYOR IS WHAT RAMIFICATIONS, WHAT ARE WE DOING. COULD YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF THE PROJECTS THAT HAS USED THE DENSITY THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO TAKE AWAY?

ARE THERE ANY PROJECTS -- >> ON FIFTH , THERE IS A COMPLETED PROJECT WHERE THEY COULD REALIZE THE BENEFITS OF 34 UNITS PER ACRE. THAT WOULD BE A PROJECT THAT WOULD BECOME NONCONFORMING IF WE REDUCE IT TO 10 UNITS PER ACRE.

>> CORRECT. THAT'S 12 UNITS -- IS THAT RIGHT OR --

>> I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS OFF OF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I APOLOGIZE. THERE IS A PROJECT AT 11 THAT ATLANTIC THAT IS LOOKING TO DEVELOP AS WELL . WOULD BE IMPACTED BY THAT

CHANGE TO THE DENSITY. >> UNDERSTOOD . ALL RIGHT. ANY FURTHER, LET'S GO TO THE VICE MAYOR ONCE AGAIN.

>> I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION , KELLY. WE ARE IN A CITY. WE AREN'T IN A CANTY. I DO KNOW THAT WE CAN OBVIOUSLY MIRROR EVERYTHING THE COUNTY DOES. THE COUNTY HAS LARGER PLOTS, LARGER AREAS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WANT MORE DENSE AREA OR MORE HOWEVER. OUR CITY, WE MIGHT NEED TO LOOK FOR A HAPPIER MEDIUM, BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A CITY, AND THERE ARE A FEW MORE LOTS. THERE'S NOT A LOT LEFT. I MEAN YOU AND I HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT A CERTAIN LOT THAT WE KNOW THAT HAS A LOT OF DENSITY, AND OTHER THAN THAT, IT WOULD BE LOTS THAT WOULD EITHER, VIA ANNEXATION , OR THERE ARE A FEW COMMERCIAL LOTS DOWN HERE THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED, WITH THIS PARTICULAR ZONING BE INVOLVED -- CORRECT?

>> THERE ARE CHALLENGES WITH LIVE LOCAL. THERE IS A REQUIREMENT THAT 40% OF IT BE USED FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND THAT IT BE COVERED FOR A 30 YEAR TIMEFRAME. THEN THERE IS THE DEVELOPMENT COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT, THAT AS NEW DEVELOPMENT , STORMWATER REQUIREMENTS, INFRASTRUCTURE FOR PARKING, LANDSCAPING , AND ROADWAY ACCESS DESIGN , THAT IT EATS AWAY AT THE AVAILABLE LAND AREA THAT IS SUPPORTED TO ELEVATE TO THAT LEVEL OF DENSITY. ALL THAT TO SAY THAT AS YOU GET THESE PROJECTS IN , YOU DON'T REALIZE THE BENEFIT OF 34 UNITS PER ACRE IN MOST SCENARIOS. ACROSS-THE-BOARD , LAND-USE -WISE, YOUR DEVELOPED DENSITY IS MORE LIKE EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE ON AVERAGE , WHEN YOU AVERAGE THEM ALL OUT.

EVEN IN YOUR MORE DENSE AREAS THROUGHOUT THE CITY , COMPARED TO THE REST OF YOUR SITTING HOLDINGS THAT ARE LOW RESIDENTIAL , OR MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, MOST PROJECTS END UP BUILDING OUT BELOW THE ALLOWABLE DENSITY , AND THEN IT ENDS UP AVERAGING AT ABOUT EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE THROUGHOUT

THE CITY. >> WOW . I HAVE ON MY QUESTION.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR BACK BEFORE I SAY YES, LET'S CHANGE THIS COMPLETELY TO 10 UNITS PER ACRE , I WANT TO HEAR KIND OF A REPORT OF ALL OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO, A COUPLE OF YEARS . I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE DENSITY OF THEM WERE, WHERE WE ARE , HOW IT WOULD MATTER , BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OUT THERE, WE HAVE DISCUSSED THEM , WE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, SOME OF US . THERE ARE LOTS OUT THERE THAT YOU COULD PUT 65 UNITS ON OR 80 UNITS ON , OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. THERE AREN'T A LOT OF THEM, BUT THEY DO EXIST , AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WANT TO CHANGE THIS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I AM JUST SAYING THAT I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT WE HAVE HAD IN THE LAST 24 TO 36 MONTHS, IF WE HAVE THOSE THE THAT SHOULDN'T BE DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH THOSE FIGURES.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME HEARING OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT MR. ROSS HAS BROUGHT. YOU KNOW, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO DISCUSSING IT.

I'M NOT INTERESTED IN MASSIVE LIVE LOCAL HIGH-RISES. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY ON THIS COMMISSION IS, SO I JUST WANT TO KNOW THE PARAMETERS OF WHAT HAS BEEN APPROVED, WHAT WE'VE PUT OUT THERE , HOW IT REALLY LOOKS, WHAT SIZE A LOT WAS, HOW MANY UNITS WERE ON IT, EVERYTHING ABOUT IT SO THAT WE CAN HAVE AN EDUCATED DISCUSSION ABOUT IT AND SAY OKAY, I THINK THIS IS THE ROUTE WE SHOULD GO. THAT'S MY OPINION . THANK YOU.

IF ANYONE HAS A QUESTION -- LET'S GO TO COMMISSIONER ROSS.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING , BUT LET'S CALL IT WHAT IT IS REALLY BIG AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNDER THAT LAW CAN BE USED IS THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS 120% OF THE MEDIAN INCOME , BASICALLY

[00:15:05]

NUMBER TWO, WHEN WE SAY 10 UNITS , MAXIMUM DENSITY IN THE

COUNTY IS 10 UNITS PER ACRE . >> WE UNDERSTAND IT YES.

>> NUMBER THREE, WHICH IS INTERESTING , IS THAT ALL THESE THINGS, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE 34 UNITS PER ACRE , WHAT YOU JUST SAID ON AVERAGE, YOU COULD DO MOST OF THEM FOR 8 UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH IS BELOW THE 10 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS INVOLVED , SO THE 34 UNITS IS A THEORETICAL MAXIMUM NUMBER, BUT YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T BUILD TO THAT BECAUSE OF THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, BECAUSE OF THE STORMWATER REQUIREMENTS, BECAUSE OF THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, BECAUSE OF THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS. WHERE IT ENDS UP IS AT EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH IS STILL UNDER THE THEORETICAL MAXIMUM OF 10, SO THESE THINGS CAN STILL BE DONE. THEN FINALLY, LIME STREET, WHICH I TOTALLY OPPOSED AT THE TIME FOR A LOT OF REASONS , WAS BUILT UNDER 10 UNITS PER ACRE, CORRECT?

>> EXACTLY. 10 UNITS PER ACRE IS HOW IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.

>> THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF 10 UNITS PER ACRE, AND THAT IS

PRETTY -- >> IT'S AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.

>> IT IS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX, SO THERE YOU GO. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF 10 UNITS PER ACRE.

>> CAN I JUST CLARIFY ONE POINT? I WAS INDICATING THAT OFTEN PROJECTS COME IN AND DON'T REALIZE THE FULL DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL OF THEM UNDER THE DENSITY THAT'S GIVEN, WHETHER THAT IS 10 UNITS PER ACRE , EIGHT, OR EVEN FOUR, BUT ON AVERAGE, WHEN YOU LOOK ACROSS ALL OF THE CITY'S LAND USE AND ZONING AND YOU COMPARE IT TO THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT, IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYTHING ON AVERAGE AND SET BEING EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE , SO I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE AREN'T AREAS THAT AREN'T BUILDING OUT TO 10 UNITS PER ACRE OR 18 UNITS PER ACRE. THEY ARE, BUT THEY AVERAGE OUT THROUGHOUT THE CITY TO APPROXIMATELY EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE . OFTEN YOU HAVE PROJECTS I DON'T WANT TO DEVELOP AT THE HIGHEST

AVAILABLE MAXIMUM. >> THANK YOU.

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT, BASICALLY JUST TO REITERATE WHAT YOU SAID. ULTIMATELY , IT COULD BE, THESE ARTIFACTS. YOU ARE JUST SAYING FROM YOUR GENERAL KNOWLEDGE, LIKE, I WANT YOU TO PULL THE STATISTICS , AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT , AND IF THEY ARE ONLY LANDING AT EIGHT, NINE, 10 PER UNIT -- THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER AYSCUE .

>> I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GIBSON.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> SO, YEAH , I'VE HAD QUITE A FEW CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF , WITH MS. GIBSON , MS. ROSE , ABOUT THIS ISSUE KIND OF IN GENERAL. AND BEFORE MR. ROSS LEFT TUFTS, I ASKED IF HE AND MS. GIBSON WOULD GO AND MEET WITH COUNTY MANAGER POPE AND THEIR MAIN PLANNER AND KIND OF FIGURE OUT , FOR ME THE ISSUE THAT I HAVE IS WHY IS IT SO VASTLY DIFFERENT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I AM FOR IT OR AGAINST IT , BUT DO WE WANT A MORE HOMOGENIZED ISLAND, WHERE THE DENSITY IS MORE, YOU KNOW , IS MORE SPREAD OUT , DOES IT ALL LOOK THE SAME ? I KNOW HOMOGENIZE IS A BAD WORD , BUT HOMOGENIZATION GOES ACROSS MANY THINGS, NOT JUST PARKS, BUT IT GOES ACROSS WITH DEVELOPMENT AS WELL. I HAVE MORE OF A QUESTION ALONG THOSE LINES. THIS WAS JUST A FEELING OUT OF WHERE ARE WE AND THE COUNTY. I THINK THIS IS A JOINT EFFORT WITH US AND THE COUNTY , LOOKING AT WHERE THEY ARE AND WHERE WE NEED TO BE. I AM KIND OF ALONG THE LINES OF MY SMEAR STURGIS.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT MAX DENSITY IS. I REALLY DON'T. I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE GOING TO FIT IN ON THAT. I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF WORK FROM OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO SIT DOWN AND GO WHERE DO WE THINK THEY SHOULD BE. SHOULD EIGHT BE THE MAX? I MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO ON WITH PLANNING THAT I THINK IS GOING TO TAKE OUR STAFF A PRETTY BIG UNDERTAKING TO GET THERE. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT NOW THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG WITH IT BEING LOCAL, I THINK THERE ARE GOOD PROJECTS WITH LIVE LOCAL IN GOOD AREAS.

[00:20:08]

IT CAME FROM THE STATE. THE STATE OF FLORIDA ENACTED LIVE LOCAL. AS A CITY , IF WE REALIZE THAT WE WANT TO COMBAT LIVE LOCAL BY CHANGING OUR DENSITY, IN THAT WE HAVE SOMEHOW REALIZED A FIX, I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS ISN'T OUR LAW . THIS NECESSARILY MAY NOT BE A FIX.

THE STATE OF FLORIDA CAN CHANGE THIS VERY EASILY. SO , I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS FROM A GLOBAL SCALE AND NOT JUST A WE ARE GOING TO FIX DENSITY AND THAT FIXES LIVE LOCAL IN OUR EYES, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT OUR LAW THAT WE PUT ON THE BOOKS.

IT CAN VERY EASILY BE CHANGE JUST AS QUICKLY AS IT GOT ENACTED. I WOULD CAUTION THE COMMISSION TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO FIND A FIX FOR MAX DENSITY OF LIVE LOCAL . IT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIX IN THE

LONG RUN. THAT'S IT. >> A POINT, COMMISSIONER. THANK

YOU . COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> I ACTUALLY DID NOT PROPOSE THIS IS A FIX TO LIVE LOCAL. I PROPOSE THIS IS A FIX BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY MORE PEOPLE ON THIS ISLAND. EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE ON THE ISLAND. THEY DON'T WANT MORE CONGESTION. THEY WANT TO KEEP THE QUALITY OF LIFE HERE.

THEY WANT TO KEEP IT QUAINT. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE ATTACKED BY HIGH DENSITY. HIGH DENSITY IS GREAT IN CITIES. I GO TO JACKSONVILLE A LOT. IT'S A GREAT THING. WHERE THEY HAVE A LOT OF HIGH DENSITY OUT THERE, IT IS A CITY. THIS IS NOT A, QUOTE, CITY. THIS IS A RURAL COMMUNITY OR WAS A RURAL COMMUNITY, AND THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE COME HERE FOR IS THEY DON'T WANT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE THERE. THEY DON'T WANT THE INCREASE IN MORE PEOPLE HERE. IT IS A BARRIER ISLAND. THERE IS A CAPACITY. THE REAL ISSUE IS WHAT IS THE CARRYING CAPACITY OF THE SILENT. IN A LOT OF WAYS I THINK WE HAVE

ALREADY GONE BEYOND THAT. >> YOU CAN PUT MORE PEOPLE HERE. YOU CAN HAVE MORE CARS. YOU CAN HAVE MORE POLLUTION, BUT THAT IS WHY I PROPOSE THIS. IT WAS SPURNED ON BY LIVE LOCAL, BUT THAT CERTAINLY WASN'T THE REASON THAT I

PROPOSED IT. >> THANK YOU COMMISSIONER ROSS.

VICE MAYOR STURGES . >> THANK YOU. I WANT TO RESPOND . HE THINKS THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE ON THIS ISLAND , I DON'T KNOW THAT HE HAS DONE A STUDY TO PROVE THAT, BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE STUDY WHERE YOU PROVE THAT WE PUT MORE PEOPLE ON THIS ISLAND THAN IT IS ABLE TO HANDLE, NUMBER ONE.

I'M NOT SAYING, I'M ASKING FOR MORE PEOPLE IN THE SILENT, HOWEVER THAT BRIDGE , AND WHEN THAT 1.6 MILLION OR 1.8 MILLION TOURISTS COME OVER , DO THE MATH, EVERY DAY. TAKE 1.6 AND DIVIDE BY 365 DAYS. HOW MANY PEOPLE IS THAT? YOU ARE COMING OVER THE BRIDGE , THEY ARE LANDING AT THE AIRPORT, OR THEY ARE DOING WHATEVER IT IS. THE DENSITY IN THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT YOU SEE, AND I HAVE SAID THIS ALMOST EVERY MEETING EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND DENSITY IS NOT FROM THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE ON THIS ISLAND. IT IS FROM THE PEOPLE THAT COME HERE EVERY DAY AND LEAVE EVERY DAY. THAT IS WHERE THE DENSITY COMES FROM. THAT'S MY OPINION. HOWEVER , I WOULD NOT MIND IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO SPEND MONEY ON A DENSITY SURVEY THAT WE DO THAT. I WOULDN'T MIND HAVING SOMEBODY CALL THE COUNTY TO GET THEIR CALCULATED INFORMATION TO HELP US OR DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO COME UP WITH A DENSITY SURVEY TO DETERMINE THAT. NONE OF THESE ARE FACTS THAT I HAVE HEARD MR. ROSS STATE YET. NONE OF THEM ARE FACTS. IT'S ALL CONJECTURE. THAT IS MY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

>> THANK YOU VICE MAYOR. COMMISSIONER ANTUN .

>> I WILL BE IN FAVOR FOR LOWERING FROM 34. 10 WOULD BE GREAT, BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO GO AS FAR AS NOT CAUSING A POTENTIAL LEGAL RAMIFICATION WITH THE CURRENT PROJECT. I UNDERSTAND THAT POINT, BUZZ MS. GIBSON MADE A POINT OF SAYING IF WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED 34 WHY ARE WE KEEPING IT THERE.

>> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER ROSS.

>> I THINK IT IS A FACT THAT THE MORE PEOPLE THAT COME HERE FOR THE MORE TRAFFIC THAT IS. TRUE A LOT OF PEOPLE COME OVER THE BRIDGE, BUT THE MORE HOUSES YOU PUT HERE, THE MORE

[00:25:01]

EIGHTH STREET, THAT IS A FACT. IF YOU WANT ME TO GET YOU THE

FACT , I WILL. >> ONODA GETS FAILING, BUT GO

AHEAD, COMMISSIONER. >> I MEAN , I HEAR OVER AND OVER AGAIN ABOUT CONGESTION AND MORE AND MORE PEOPLE HERE. IT IS TRUE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE COME OVER HERE. WE HAVE MORE AND MORE HOTELS AND BED AND BREAKFASTS AND THINGS, SO THE MORE THINGS YOU PUT HERE, THE MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME HERE. THERE IS A NATURAL CARRYING CAPACITY OF THIS ISLAND , AND I THINK IT IS A HARD NUMBER TO COME AT, WHAT IT IS , AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE WILL TAKE THAT DIFFERENTLY, BUT

THANK YOU . >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

COMMISSIONER AYSCUE . >> JUST TO RESPOND , I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD A SINGLE COMMISSIONER APPEAR THAT HAS DISAGREED THAT WE DON'T NEED TO LOOK INTO THIS. I THINK WE'VE ALL KIND OF SAID HEY , I THINK STAFF NEEDS TO LOOK INTO THIS.

AGAIN , BEFORE MR. ROSS LEFT, I DIRECTED HIM AND MS. GIBSON O GO MEET WITH THE COUNTY TO KIND OF SEE. IT WAS A PRELIMINARY THING, AND I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE MONTHS IN THE MAKING BEFORE WE EVEN GOT TO A POINT THAT I THOUGHT THIS DISCUSSION SHOULD TAKE LACE. I THINK IT IS STILL A LITTLE EARLY, BUT YOU KNOW, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH STAFF LOOKING INTO THIS. AND AGAIN, THE PROJECTS THAT ARE OUT THERE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS AND SAY IS THIS NEGATIVELY GOING TO AFFECT THE PROJECT THAT WE KNOW ABOUT, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE. YOU KNOW, WE ARE JUST WORKING THROUGH THE ISSUE. DO I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE 10? I DON'T KNOW. STAFF HASN'T EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO WORK THROUGH IT YET. THEY MAY COME BACK AND SAY NO IT NEEDS TO BE 16 OR 14. I DON'T KNOW WE NEED TO TRUST STAFF TO GO THROUGH THIS, GET WITH THE COUNTY. LET'S TRY TO HAVE A MORE IN MY OPINION , I DON'T WANT TO SEE WHAT THE SOUTH OF THE ISLAND LOOKS LIKE AND THEN THE NORTH END IN FERNANDINA BE NOTHING BUT DEVELOPMENT. WE WANT TO HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF A COMMUNITY HERE , SO THAT IS WHERE I'M GOING WITH IT, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS DISAGREEING THAT WE SHOULDN'T LOOK INTO THIS. I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS.

IT'S GOING TO BE A PROCESS THAT STAFF HAS TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER FOR US TO GET TO A DECISION.

>> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER AYSCUE . I WANT TO JUMP IN AND JUST SAY THAT I DO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH LIVE LOCAL. I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT , BUT THIS GUY IS NOT FALLING. I WANT TO POINT THAT OUT. THE SKY IS NOT FALLING. HERE POINT, THE MOST RECENT ROADS A STUDY THAT WE ALL LOOKED AT, IRA RHODES SCORED A LETTER A. THAT WAS THE MOST RECENT ONE THAT WE SAW.

THE SKY IS NOT FALLING. I DO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH LIVE LOCAL.

AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF WHAT COMMISSIONER AYSCUE SAID, AND THAT IS HOMOGENIZATION. THAT IS A WORD , YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. IF LIVE LOCAL COMES AND SAYS THAT EVERYBODY CAN HAVE THE MOST DENSE, IT WILL HOMOGENIZE THE CITY , AND PART OF WHAT MAKES THE CITY SPECIAL IS THE DIFFERENCES OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. DOWNTOWN IS MORE DENSE. AWAY FROM DOWNTOWN IT IS LESS DENSE. THAT IS SOMETHING IMPORTANT. EITHER WAY , AND THIS IS WHERE THE CONUNDRUM FOR ME IS THAT I'M LOOKING AT AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE ALL TRYING TO WORK THROUGH IS I DON'T WANT IT TO HOMOGENIZE IN EITHER DIRECTION. DOWNTOWN IF YOU GO LOOK AT THE LOFTS ON FIFTH PROJECT, THAT DID A GREAT JOB RETURNING AN OLD HISTORIC LINK UNITS THAT PEOPLE CAN NOW LIVE IN. THAT IS THE EXAMPLE OF OUR CODE WORKING AND CAUSING HISTORIC RENOVATION. THAT IS SOMETHING GOOD. HOWEVER , WITH THE EXISTENCE OF LIVE LOCAL, THAT SAME DENSITY COULD CAUSE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT DOWNTOWN TO TURN INTO SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT. JUST LIKE I'VE HEARD EXAMPLES OF GOOD PROJECTS, I DON'T WANT TO USE ANY SPECIFIC EXAMPLES, BUT I HAVE SEEN PICTURES OVER BY WHERE THE OLD LITTLE CHAMP WAS , AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T BECOME THE WHOLE CITY EITHER. THAT IS WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF LOOKING AT HOW CAN WE MAKE OUR TOP DENSITY SOMETHING THAT IS IN CREATING THIS PROBLEM ALL OVER TOWN, AND TO REITERATE WHAT COMMISSIONER AYSCUE SAID IS THAT WE DIDN'T CREATE THIS LAW WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE MAKE THE BEST DECISION POSSIBLE FOR FERNANDINA GIVEN THAT IS WHAT THE STATE HAS DONE. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE WORKING ON NOW AND WE DON'T WANT TO CAUSE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES BY REACTING KNEE-JERK. I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF HAVING STAFF LOOK AT THIS, HOW ARE WE GOING TO, WHAT KIND , COMMISSIONER ROSS HAS ONE PROPOSAL. I WOULD LIKE

[00:30:01]

>> SPECIFICALLY, MAKE A LIST, WHAT DATA DO YOU NEED TO MAKE A

DECISION. >> ARE YOU ASKING ME?

>> YEAH . >> I WOULD CERTAINLY LIKE TO HAVE PLANNING HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

>> NO, I'M ASKING YOU ABOUT WHAT DATA DO YOU WANT THEM TO COME UP WITH TO MAKE A DECISION. I DON'T NEED THEM TO LOOK INTO IT. LOOK INTO WHAT? WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO?

>> THEY ARE THE EXPERTS. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE US THE INFORMATION WHEN IT COMES TO PLANNING A CITY. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THAT'S THEIR JOB. THEY HAVE GOOD IDEAS. THEY HAVE GOOD THOUGHTS. I MEAN, THEY GIVE US INFORMATION. I AM JUST ASKING THEM TO SIMPLY STATE, IS GOING DIRECTLY WITH THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, UNIT FOUR UNIT , IS THAT'S WHAT BEST? THEY MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT THOUGHT PROCESS ON THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THEIR OPINION ON THAT. THAT IS ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT I THINK TO HAVE -- I HAVE TO HAVE HIS STAFF REPORT WAS THEIR FINDINGS AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE THE DENSITY SHOULD BE. 34 NEEDS TO GO AWAY BECAUSE IT IS NO LONGER USEFUL , I'M FINE WITH IT. THAT MAKES SENSE. IT MAKES SENSE. I'VE TALKED TO COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE ON THE BOARD AT THE TIME , AND I UNDERSTOOD THE DECISION THAT THEY MADE. I AM NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THAT OR DISAGREE WITH IT. I UNDERSTOOD WHY THEY DID WHAT THEY DID, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THOSE FACTORS ARE TEMPLATE, AGAIN 100% WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT SITUATION WILL COME BACK TO WHERE WE ARE GOING BACK TO RAISING DENSITY. SO, THOSE ARE FACTORS FOR ME THAT I WOULD HAVE TO SEE. AGAIN , THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, I THINK THERE ARE SOME GOOD PROJECTS OUT THERE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE DENSITY SET AT THE COUNTY WOULD BE IT OR NOT, AND I THINK I'VE GOT TO FIND THAT INFORMATION OUT.

>> THANK YOU, AND I WILL ALSO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, AND I THINK THIS IS A GREAT DISCUSSION WE ARE HAVING. I SPECIFICALLY WANT TO SEE IS WHAT WOULD A LIVE LOCAL PROJECT, THIS IS MS. GIBSON , SOMETHING FOR YOU TO TAKE HOME , NOT TONIGHT, BECAUSE I NEED TO SEE AN ACTUAL STUDY OF WHAT WOULD A LIVE LOCAL PROJECT LOOK LIKE BASED ON THE CURRENT , MAYBE TAKE JUST A THEORETICAL EXAMPLE, AND APPLY THE CURRENT ZONING AND SEE WHAT THAT PROJECT LOOKS LIKE. HOW WOUD THAT COME OUT BASED ON ALL OF OUR LAWS PUT TOGETHER , AND HOW WOULD IT LOOK IF WE EDITED IT TO THIS. THAT'S THE ANALYSIS I WANT TO SEE, BECAUSE THAT IS BIG WITH THE ACTUAL DATA WOULD SHOW. THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK ONLY YOU COULD ANSWER. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS WELL. VICE MAYOR?

>> YEAH, I WOULD. THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU ARE DISCUSSING ABOUT KELLY, AND WHAT SOME OF IT INVOLVES HIS ENGINEERS. I MEAN, JUST, THIS MIGHT NOT BE A QUESTION SHE CAN ANSWER 100% , BECAUSE YOU CAN LAYOUT THE PARAMETERS, THE SETBACKS , LET'S SAY IT IS A ONE ACRE PARCEL. LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE IT'S A ONE ACRE PARCEL, WHICH I THINK WE HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW, BUT THERE IS ONE OUT THERE LIKE THAT AND LET'S SAY THAT YOU HAVE YOUR SETBACKS AND IN YOUR PARKING AND THEN YOUR LANDSCAPE AND THEN YOUR DRAINAGE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS INVOLVED . SHE CAN GIVE US AN IDEA OF HOW MANY LOTS OR HOW MANY UNITS COULD BE PUT THERE BASED ON THE CURRENT ZONING , BUT SHE CAN'T PIN IT DOWN TO THE NUMBER EXACTLY BECAUSE SHE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN ENGINEER, AND THAT IS JUST MY THOUGHT PROCESS ABOUT IT. HOWEVER , IF WE COULD TAKE THE INFORMATION THAT SHE HAS , LIKE I HAVE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED THAT I FIRST HEARD THIS. I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THIS DISCUSSION WAS GOING TO EVEN BE THIS EVENING UNTIL I GOT HERE.

SO, MY FIRST KNEE-JERK ANSWER IS I WANT TO SEE ALL OF THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN THE LAST 2 TO 3 YEARS THAT FALL IN THIS PARAMETER, AND HOW THEY HANDLE IT . HOW MANY UNITS PER ACRE THEY ACTUALLY ENDED UP. ONCE WE GET ALL THAT DATA, PLUS WHAT WE COULD HAVE FOR, SAY, A ONE ACRE PARCEL FOR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, SHE COULD PICK ANY INCREMENT SHE WANTS THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD SEE IN OUR CITY , BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE 10 TO 20 ACRES, OR NOT LARGE PLATE PIECES LIKE THIS MOSTLY. IT COULD HAPPEN , BUT IT IS RARE, AND THERE IS NOT A LARGE AMOUNT OF THAT ANYWAY , SO, BUT REGARDLESS OF THAT , I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL OF THE FACTS, AND THEN ONCE I GET THE FACTS ,

[00:35:04]

>> HOMOGENIZATION. >> THERE YOU GO , HOMOGENIZATION, I WOULD BE CONCERNED AS WELL, BUT WE DON'T, YOU KNOW , WHOEVER APPROVED THIS IN 2016, THE COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE HERE BUT THEY DID HAVE REASONS BEHIND IT. I WANT MORE FACTS BEFORE I KNEE-JERK AND SAY

LET'S CUT TO 10. >> MR. GEORGE, DO YOU HAVE

SOMETHING TO ADD TO THIS? >> WE HEARD YOU TONIGHT. LET US GET THE STAFF TOGETHER AND WE LOOK AT THE RESEARCH AND DOCUMENTATION AND INFORMATION, AND COME BACK WHEN YOU MAKE A

DECISION. >> THANK YOU.

>> I HAVE ONE LAST COMMENT. >> THE STAFF MAY BE EXPERTS IN PLANNING, BUT THIS BOARD IS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE TO SET THE POLICY, AND THIS BOARD IS WHAT DETERMINES WHAT THIS TOWN WILL LOOK LIKE. IT'S NOT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. IT IS THE BOARD, BECAUSE WE SET THE POLICY, SO UNTIL YOU TELL -- IF YOU DON'T TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANTED TO LOOK LIKE , AS FAR AS PEOPLE LIVING HERE, AMENITIES AND ALL OF THOSE OTHER THINGS , THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY GIVE YOU THE FACTS THAT YOU WANT.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS BOARD WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS TOWN LOOKS LIKE, ONLY AFTER WE HEAR PROPER DATA FROM THE STAFF. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT FORWARD TO US. GOOD

EVENING. >> JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION. FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE HOMOGENIZATION ASKED BACKED, AGAIN IT IS A BAD WORD, NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR IT . WE HEAR IT ALONG OUR BEACHES IN OUR PARKS. IT IS A TOUCHY, NOBODY WANTS TO TOUCH IT. IF YOU GO WITH, IF YOU ARE TRYING TO MATCH UNIT FOUR UNIT THE COUNTY, YOU ARE HOMOGENIZING IN MY OPINION THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COUNTY , AND THE CITY. I MEAN , IT IS A BAD WORD . IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO DO, OR DO WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW , DO WE WANT TO LOOK AT HOW THE SOUTH END HAS DEVELOPED AND HOW IT HAS BEEN DEVELOPED IN THE COUNTY AND HOW WE HAVE DEVELOPED IN THE CITY? DO WE WANT TO SEE THAT MORE ALIGNED , OR WE FIND WITH THE COUNTY DOING THE COUNTY'S BUSINESS IN THE CITY IS DOING THE CITY'S BUSINESS? THOSE ARE DECISIONS THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE. I WANT THE KIND OF VERIFIED THAT THIS IS MORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE WANT TO LOOK AS A COMMUNITY, AND THAT IS WHY I THINK THIS ISSUE IS PROBABLY MORE OF A COUNTY AND CITY GETTING TOGETHER AND FIGURING IT OUT THAN IT IS NECESSARILY JUST ONE, YOU KNOW, JUST ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE SAYING WE ARE GOING TO DO IT THIS WAY, AND I AGREE, WE WILL MAKE THE DECISION REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE COUNTY HAS TO SAY , BUT WE WOULD STILL LOVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PARTNERSHIP OR INTROSPECTIVE ON HOW IT WOULD

LOOK TOGETHER. >> EXCELLENT POINTS, THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THE COMMISSION GIVING DIRECTION TO STAFF ON

[5.2 ESCAMBIA SLOUGH - This item is placed on the agenda based on City Commission direction at their October 17, 2023, Regular Meeting.]

AGENDA. >> AT THE DIRECTION OF THE COMMISSION, YOU ASKED STAFF TO LOOK INTO THE BENEFIT , PROS AND CONS OF REMOVING ESCAMBIA ROAD AS IT RELATES TO FLOODING.

STAFF DID AN ANALYSIS OF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS. ONE IS IF THE ROAD IS GONE, WHAT IMPACT WOULD THAT HAVE ON FLOODING FROM A TIME STANDPOINT, AMOUNT OF WATER, YOU KNOW , HIGH, LOW.

IF WE RAISED THE ROAD, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THAT AREA. IF WE PUT IN A PIPE WITH A VALVE AND RAISED THE ROAD . WE LOOKED AT ALL SCENARIOS, WE LOOKED AT HOW MUCH WATER, THE WATER IS GOING TO FLOOD IN THAT AREA NO MATTER WHAT WE DO , BUT IT IS ABOUT HOW FAST IT RECEIVES OUT. THROUGH ALL OF THE ANALYSIS, AND THERE IS A LOT OF ANALYSIS, TAKING THE ROAD OUT REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WHOLE BACK AREA, EIGHTH STREET, ALL OF THOSE , IT IS REDUCED BY ALMOST 2.5 HOURS, SO INSTEAD OF A SIX HOUR STANDING WATER OVER THE ROADS AND THE LOTS AND HOMES AND EVERYWHERE , IT IS FOUR HOURS. BY TAKING THE ROAD OUT, IT RECEDES FASTER. YOU GET THE SAME VOLUME OF WATER COMING IN, BUT WHAT IT ALSO DOES IS A BENEFIT, BECAUSE OF ALL THE BACTERIA THAT WE HEAR ABOUT FROM SCENE JOHN SEND THE RIVER ABOUT THE BIRDS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF, IT HAS A BETTER FLUSHING SYSTEM. IT'S NOT STAGNANT WATER AS MUCH ANYMORE , AND IT CREATES A CONSERVATION AREA BY HAVING MORE MARSH.

STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT WE REMOVE THE ROAD AND RETURN THAT TO AN OPEN ESCAMBIA SLOUGH , AND IT WOULD REDUCE THE AMOUNT

OF FLOODING . >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY QUESTIONS? WE START WITH VICE MAYOR STURGES.

[00:40:05]

>> I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS. I'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR THIS . IF ANYBODY REMEMBERS, BEFORE I GOT ELECTED, I STOOD AT THAT VERY PODIUM , AND I SHOUTED ABOUT THIS NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED, THAT THIS IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN FOR OUR WATER AND OUR MARSH SYSTEM WITH THESE E. COLI READINGS, THAT IT WAS NOT GOOD. AND WE SEARCHED THE CITY WHILE WE WERE HERE AND AS A STAFF, AND WHEN I STARTED ON THE COMMISSION, THEY SEARCHED TO SEE WHERE THE E. COLI PROBLEM WAS COMING FROM, AND IT APPEARS TO BE A BIRD PROBLEM, LIKE, FROM BIRDS, BUT REGARDLESS OF THAT , I THINK IT IS THE RIGHT DECISION FOR CITY TO MAKE AMOUNT TO REMOVE THE STREET. I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT FROM URINALYSIS, FROM OUR EXPERTS , THAT IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. IT IS NOT JUST A THOUGHT PROCESS.

>> IT'S ALSO BEEN RECOMMENDED BY THE ST. JOHN RIVER KEEPER.

ENVIRONMENTALISTS, AND THAT IS ONE OF THEM , THE ST. JOHNS RIVER KEEPER. I HAVE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH THEM FOR WEEKS. I TOLD HIM WE ARE WORKING ON IT , NOW THAT WE HAVE THE STUDY BACK, IT PROVES THAT IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS A COMMISSION. I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD REMOVE THE STREET. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IS GOING TO COST YET , BUT ONCE WE HAVE THE COST, I THINK WE SHOULD FOLLOW THROUGH THIS YEAR, REMOVE IT, CREATE IT BACK TO MARSHLAND. IT IS DUAL STAGED , ONE IT WILL CLEAN OUT OUR SYSTEM AND WATER CORRECTLY SO THAT WE DO HAVE CORRECT WATER LEVELS, BECAUSE IT WILL ALLOW THAT FRESHWATER TO COME IN AND CLEAN THE AREA . NUMBER TWO, IT WILL GIVE US MORE ENVIRONMENTAL LAND. WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO BE DRIVING ACROSS IT ANYWAY . THERE IS NO REASON FOR THAT ROAD TO BE THERE. THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME, IT IS PEOPLE EITHER GO TO FISH OUT THERE, OR I HAVE SEEN A COUPLE OF DEAD DEER AT ONE POINT DROPPED THEIR. I'VE SEEN , IT IS A VACANT ROAD. IF YOU DRIVE OUT THERE, ANYONE CAN DROP ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DROP AND NOBODY WILL EVER SEE. I DON'T THINK IT REALLY NEEDS TO BECOME ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT. NOW , IT COULD BE AN AREA ON ONE SIDE THAT WE PUT A LITTLE VIEWING AREA SO PEOPLE CAN WATCH THE WILDLIFE , OR HAVE A COUPLE OF PARKING SPOTS AT ONE END OF THE ROAD OR ON EITHER END, IT JUST DEPENDS.

I WOULD THINK THE PORTSIDE WOULD BE THE BETTER SIDE FOR THAT VIEWING AREA, YOU KNOW , AND MAYBE HAVE A BENCH OUT THERE OR TWO. SO , I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD USE OF IT, AND IT WOULD BE ENVIRONMENTAL, AND IT WOULD BE A GREAT PROJECT FOR THE CITY TO CONVERT SOME AREA TO ENVIRONMENTAL.

>> IT ALSO REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF FLOODING THAT WE HAVE.

>> IT WILL ALSO REDUCE WE HAVE THESE KING TIDE'S ARE THE FLOOD TIDES, IT WILL REDUCE IT. THANK YOU , CHARLIE, AND I AM IN FAVOR WITH GETTING CONSENSUS WITH THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PROJECT, GET A COST,

VOTE IT AND DO IT. >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR .

COMMISSIONER AYSCUE. >> I WANT TO THANK THE VICE MAYOR FOR BRINGING THIS TO THE FOREFRONT. IT'S A PROJECT THAT I CAN BE HAS BEEN NEEDING TO BE DONE FOR A WHILE. MY ONLY CONCERN , AND I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED THIS BEFORE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ADDRESS IT BUT IF WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE THE STREET AND OPEN IT BACK UP, THEN WE DO SO ENVIRONMENTALLY SAFE AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT , I KNOW IT IS A ROAD IN THERE THINGS THAT ARE THERE AND WE NEED TO GET IT OUT. I BELIEVE WE NEED TO DO THIS CORRECTLY, YOU KNOW. THE LAST THING THAT

WE NEED, JUST -- >> THERE'S NO OTHER WAY.

>> I DON'T WANT TO TRAMPLE THROUGH AND MAKE IT WORSE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THIS DONE AND WE DO IT RIGHT.

THE MAC WE WILL. >> MR. GEORGE , THIS HAS TO BE ABOUT ALMOST AN ACRE OF LAND WE ARE RETURNING TO MARSH. IT'S A LONG STRIP, A THIN LONG STRIP.

>> IT'S PRETTY CLOSE. >> I WENT TO THINK THE VICE MAYOR FOR BRINGING THIS UP . IT CERTAINLY IS GOING TO BE GOOD.

I KNOW WE SPOKE ABOUT THIS EARLIER, BUT WE HAVE ANALYZED , AND THE ANALYSIS IS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT IT NOW. I KNOW THE FOLKS THAT LIVE ON ESCAMBIA. WE ARE TAKING THE ROAD IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE. THIS WOULD NOT AFFECT, IF YOU LIVE ON A CERTAIN SIDE OF IT YOU DRIVE A DIFFERENT ROUTE OUT, AND IF YOU LIVE, WHAT ABOUT, I KNOW THIS ALSO BORDERS INDUSTRIAL SITES AND THINGS LIKE THAT AROUND, WITH THIS AFFECT OPERATIONS OF THE PORT?

>> NO. THE PORT IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ROAD. THEY ARE GOING TO GET THE FLOODING WHEN THEY GET IT NO MATTER WHAT.

THIS WON'T CHANGE THEIR FLOODING. IT WILL BE WHAT IT IS. THAT IS ANOTHER TOPIC OF THE PROJECT THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AT SOME POINT, BUT THIS IS MAINLY TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF FLOODING TIME THAT IS SOUTH OF THAT ROAD , THEN THE OTHER BENEFITS OF THE CONSERVATION , E. COLI --

[00:45:01]

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF WINNING IN THIS PROJECT.

>> I HAVE TALKED TO MOST OF THE NEIGHBORS WHO LIVE THERE BECAUSE I LIVE VERY CLOSE, AND THEY WOULD ALL LIKE TO SEE THAT ROAD TAKEN OUT , BECAUSE OF THE THUMPING AND ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES

THAT GO ON IT NIGHT. >> IT'S A WIN-WIN.

>> THANK YOU MR. GEORGE AND COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING THIS. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE CONSENSUS . AM I WRONG ON THAT? WE ARE GOOD. WITH THAT, THAT CONCLUDES OUR REGULAR WORKSHOP AGENDA. STICK AROUND, FOLKS. IF YOU ARE HERE YOU KNOW WE HAVE AT 6:00 P.M. TO GATHER THE SCHEDULED CITY COMMISSION MEETING. IT'S VERY EXCITING. I HAVE MY SHIRT ON.

IT IS OUR 200TH ANNIVERSARY AS

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.