Dec 21, 2023 Historic District Council

[00:00:03]

WE'LL CALL TO ORDER THE DECEMBER 21ST PRE-CHRISTMAS MEETING OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL.

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

SO WE DON'T NEED TO SEAT ANY ALTERNATES TONIGHT.

MR. NORMAN? WE'LL RECOGNIZE MR. NORMAN IS HERE.

DO WE HAVE ANY CHANGES TO THE MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER THE 16TH?

[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]

OKAY. IT'S BEEN MOVED TO APPROVE, AND THERE'S A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND POZZETTA, AND WITH NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MEETING MINUTES ARE PASSED.

WE'LL START WITH OLD BUSINESS.

[4.1 HDC 2022-0066 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR JCJ TRUST, 10 + 12 + 14 N. 2ND STREET]

GOOD EVENING. THE APPLICANT THIS EVENING IS SEEKING FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT AN ELEVATOR TOWER, REAR PORCH AND STAIRS AND TO RESTORE THE EXTERIOR FACADES, WINDOWS AND DOORS AT.

THE ADDRESS IS LISTED AS TEN, 12 AND 14 NORTH SECOND STREET.

STAFF HAS EVALUATED THIS AGAINST THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION, AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND ISSUES A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.

ALL OF THE MATERIALS AND APPLICATION FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, THE CASE HAS BEEN PROPERLY NOTICED AND ALL OF THE MATERIALS FOR YOU TO REVIEW THE CASE IN DETAIL AND ISSUE A FINAL APPROVAL HAVE BEEN PROVIDED AS PART OF THE APPLICATION AND BACKUP, AND I'M HAPPY TO PULL UP ANY OF THOSE DETAILS AT YOUR REQUEST.

I HAVE GONE OFF THE AGENDA AND I APOLOGIZE AFTER THE PLEDGE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DISCLOSE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, ASK CITY ATTORNEY TO PRESENT QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES, AND ASK THE SECRETARY TO ADMINISTER THE OATH TO ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK.

SO LET'S START WITH EX PARTE.

I THOUGHT [INAUDIBLE].

I KNOW.

NOTHING. JIM? I HAD NONE.

TAMMI? I SPOKE WITH STAFF, JUST BRIEFLY ABOUT SEVERAL DIFFERENT ITEMS, AND THEN I SPOKE WITH THE APPLICANT ON 2023-0099.

WHICH IS? THE HIRTH HOUSE. THANK YOU.

I HAD SOME EXCHANGE COMMUNICATION WITH STAFF AS WELL REGARDING THE HIRTH HOUSE AND THE ADJOINING CASES 99 AND 108, AND I HAD A BRIEF, VERY BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH MISS MAURIE DUGGER ABOUT THE WALLDOGS PROJECT.

THAT RAISES A GOOD QUESTION.

THAT'S NOT A CASE, PER SE, BUT AN ITEM OF DISCUSSION.

ARE WE TO DISCLOSE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS FOR ITEMS OF DISCUSSION? THAT'S A NO. THANK YOU, AND, MR. NORMAN, ANYTHING TO DISCLOSE? YES, I SPOKE WITH THE APPLICANT AND THEIR CONTRACTOR FOR THE CASE 110.

THAT'S THE MANUS HOUSE AT SAN FERNANDO STREET ALSO, OF COURSE, TALKED TO DIRECTOR GIBSON ABOUT ALL THE CASES.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL.

WHAT HAVE YOU GOT FOR US? WE HAVE SEVERAL CASES TONIGHT ON THE AGENDA.

EACH ONE OF THOSE BEFORE THE DISCUSSION ITEMS WILL BE CONDUCTED AS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS MRS. GIBSON WITH CITY STAFF IS GOING TO PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY ON EACH OF THE CASES HER STAFF REPORT THE APPLICATION FROM THE APPLICANT BACKUP DOCUMENTATION HAS BEEN ATTACHED TO THE AGENDA AND WAS SENT OUT TO YOU ALL BEFORE THIS MEETING.

THAT IS PART OF THE RECORD, AND WHEN CITY STAFF FINISHES THEIR PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCTION OF EVIDENCE, THEY MAY CALL WITNESSES IF THEY HAVE ANY.

THEN THE APPLICANT AND OR THEIR AGENT COME TO THE PODIUM, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND YOU WILL ALSO BE PRESENTING EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY.

IN THAT CASE THE APPLICANT AS WELL CAN CALL WITNESSES AS CAN AFFECTED PARTIES, WHICH MEANS IF YOU'RE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, YOU'RE CONSIDERED AN AFFECTED PARTY AND YOU GET TO PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY INTO THE RECORD.

YOU CAN ALSO CALL WITNESSES THE PARTIES, WHICH INCLUDE THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER, APPLICANT AND AFFECTED PARTIES CAN ALL CROSS-EXAMINE EACH OTHER OR ASK EACH OTHER QUESTIONS, EACH OTHER AND EACH OTHER'S WITNESSES.

SO EVERYBODY'S GOT THE SAME RIGHTS DURING THE HEARING.

[00:05:01]

IF THERE IS AN APPEAL TO BE TAKEN BY THE BOARD OF ANY OF THE BOARD'S DECISIONS TONIGHT, THOSE APPEALS ARE TAKEN DIRECTLY TO THE CIRCUIT COURT WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD CHAIR SIGNING THE FINDINGS OF FACT AND THAT HAPPENS WITHIN A COUPLE OF BUSINESS DAYS OF TODAY.

SO ABOUT 35 DAYS FROM NOW, THAT'S YOUR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS TO APPEAL.

ARE THERE ANY VARIANCES? I DIDN'T NOTICE ANY ON THE AGENDA OKAY.

VERY GOOD. SIX REGULAR CASES.

SO ANY ANY MOTION REQUIRES A SIMPLE MAJORITY, THREE OUT OF THE FIVE VOTING MEMBERS TO APPROVE THAT MOTION AND PASS IT.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU. REMEMBER YOUR DECISIONS ARE BASED ON COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, AND EXPERT TESTIMONY IS TO BE WEIGHED DIFFERENTLY AND MORE HEAVILY THAN OPINION.

LAY TESTIMONY. MOST HELPFUL.

THANK YOU WITH THAT, WE'RE BACK ON TRACK.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT, JUST WONDERING.

IF ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY TONIGHT, WOULD YOU PLEASE RISE AND BE SWORN IN? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT, WE'RE BACK TO THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM FOR TEN, 12 AND 14 NORTH SECOND STREET DID WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR DIRECTOR GIBSON? JUST GENERAL CLARIFICATION ON THE ON THE STAFF PACKAGE.

I READ SOMEWHERE THAT IT WAS CONCEPTUAL, BUT WE'RE HERE FOR FINAL APPROVAL, RIGHT? YES, SIR. WE DID CONCEPTUAL PREVIOUSLY.

RIGHT.

NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF.

THEN WE'LL ASK MR. MIRANDA TO COME FORWARD.

IT'S PRETTY CUT DRY.

STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

JOSE MIRANDA, 309.5 CENTER STREET, SUITE 206 WE ARE HERE FOR THE WHAT WE'RE CALLING THE TIGER ISLAND ROOM PROJECT.

THE ADAPTIVE REUSE OF TWO BUILDINGS BUILT BY OUR INFAMOUS [INAUDIBLE] BOTH LATE 1800S.

IT'LL BE A BAR MUSIC VENUE THE OWNERS WANT TO RESTORE ESSENTIALLY THE FACADES, THE WINDOWS, THE CAST IRON STOREFRONT, ALL THAT'S INCLUDED IN THE PACKAGE.

OUR ADDITION IS ON THE BACK.

IT'S JUST AN ELEVATOR AND A REAR PORCH AND FIRE STAIR, AND RIGHT NOW THE PROJECT IS OUT FOR BIDS WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY WANT TO HIT THE GROUND MOVING IN THE FIRST QUARTER OF NEXT YEAR.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA? [INAUDIBLE] 14, LOT 14 WILL REMAIN? IS THAT PARKING OR--IT IS, WE ARE NOT DEVELOPING THAT EMPTY LOT.

THEY WANT WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO DO SOME KIND OF A SIDE COURTYARD.

THEY SAID THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR OPTIONS OPEN, SEE HOW THE BUSINESS DOES.

IF THEY DECIDE TO SELL THAT LOT OFF IN THE FUTURE, THEN THERE'S NO ENCUMBRANCES ON IT.

SO WE'RE NOT DOING SETBACKS ON 12 WOULD FALL INTO STILL BEING ABLE TO.

YEAH, THERE'S THE WAY THAT NUMBER 12 SITS.

THERE'S ABOUT A I WANT TO SAY EIGHT FEET BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE PROPERTY LINE WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY HAVING OUR EGRESS AND, AND OUR WALKWAY AND OUR UTILITY YARDS.

SO IT SHOULDN'T HURT US AT ALL.

OKAY. TRASH.

YES. ALL THE ALL THE THINGS THAT WE CAN'T PUT IN THE BACK COURTYARD.

YES. I JUST HAD A QUESTION MORE OUT OF CURIOSITY ABOUT THAT CISTERN IN THE BACK.

YES. DID ANYONE DO ANY PROVENANCE ON THAT AND HOW? NO, BUT I MEAN, WHEN WE RESEARCHED IT, IT WAS A WELL, A WATER SOURCE.

IT THEN AT SOME POINT, SOMEBODY CONVERTED IT INTO WHAT LOOKS LIKE A VERY BAD PIZZA OVEN.

[CHUCKLING] OUR INTENTION IS TO TRY TO RESTORE IT AND PUT A BENCH AROUND IT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO REMOVE IT. IT'S JUST PART OF THE HISTORY AND IT'S NOT IN OUR WAY.

SO WE'RE LEAVING IT IN THE COURTYARD.

GOOD. JUST CURIOSITY AS WELL.

I SAW YOUR DETAIL WHERE YOU HAVE THE DOUBLE DOUBLE WINDOW WHERE THE FIRE RATING IS REQUIRED.

YES, I KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT BEFORE.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

SO YOU'RE KEEPING THE ORIGINAL.

YEAH. CORRECT.

WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE STORING THE WINDOW, KEEPING THAT VISIBLE FROM THE OUTSIDE, AND THEN ON THE INSIDE ADDING A FIRE RATED PANEL BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT THERE NEAR THE MEANS OF EGRESS. WE HAD TO DO THAT ON THE ENTIRE SOUTH FACADE WHERE ALL THOSE WINDOWS ARE EITHER MISSING OR BOARDED UP, BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE PROPERTY LINE.

RIGHT. SO THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY THAT BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WOULD HAVE HAD OH, I KNOW, AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE NATURAL LIGHT AND THEY MAKE SENSE TO RESTORE THE WINDOW OPENINGS THAT ARE THERE. RIGHT.

THAT'S A GOOD POINT, FROILAN, BECAUSE I THINK WE CERTAINLY HAVE HAD AND PROBABLY WILL HAVE PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE THAT HAS TO HAVE HISTORIC WINDOWS AND COULD MODIFY THEM TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THEM.

YEP. OTHER QUESTIONS.

[00:10:03]

THE METAL FACADE AT NUMBER TEN IS DETERIORATING AS WE SPEAK, SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT RESTORATION.

IT NEEDS SOME TLC.

I THINK WE'LL GET THE RIGHT CLIENT TO DO THAT.

THANK YOU. OKAY. [INAUDIBLE].

YEAH. OKAY.

IS THERE ANYBODY HERE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 0066? SEEING NO ONE RUSHING FORWARD, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION.

WE'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE.

IF THERE AREN'T ANY CHANGES, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS.

MOTION.

HOW ABOUT A MOTION? IS THAT GOOD? THAT'S FINE. THANK YOU.

I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE HDC CASE NUMBER 2022 0066 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW.

PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2022-0066, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DOWNTOWN HISTORY HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES TO AWARD FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND. SECOND. SO THAT'S MOVED ESCLUSA.

SECONDED KOSACK, AND THAT IS FINAL APPROVAL.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.

MISS LILLY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

MOVING ON, 2023-0104.

[5.1 HDC 2023-0104 - TODD C. KEMP LIVING TRUST, 30 S. 5TH STREET]

YES, AND THIS EVENING YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER FINAL APPROVAL.

THE CONSTRUCTION OF A ONE AND A HALF STORY SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND A DETACHED GARAGE THE STRUCTURE IS LOCATED WITHIN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

PREVIOUSLY ON THE SAME SITE WAS THE A PORTION OF THE NEWS-LEADER BUILDING, AS WELL AS THE PARKING AREA ASSOCIATED WITH IT AND THE LOADING ZONE FOR IT TODAY IT'S BEEN CLEARED.

IT STILL HAS SOME REMAINING ASPHALT, I BELIEVE, ON IT BUT THEY ARE READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH BUILDING OUT THE REST OF THAT BLOCK TO CONTAIN A RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE AS A CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT STRUCTURE, THERE ARE DIFFERENT SETBACKS THAN WHAT WE WOULD TYPICALLY FIND IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS BUT THIS MEETS ALL OF THE DESIGN STANDARDS AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SUFFICIENT TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR, I THINK I HAD ONE, AND THIS MAY JUST BE BECAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ZONING OF THAT LOT, BUT IS IS THERE SUPPOSED TO BE FIVE FEET BETWEEN THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE AND THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? THAT'S NOT A ZONING CODE REQUIREMENT.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S SOMETHING REQUIRED, PERHAPS BY THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE, BUT NOT UNDER ZONING REQUIREMENTS.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

ANNE, ARE YOU REPRESENTING TONIGHT? WOULD YOU COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE? ANNE PITTMAN FROM COTNER ARCHITECTS, 15 NORTH 18TH STREET.

QUESTIONS FOR MISS PITTMAN.

I MEAN, IT'S NICE AS THE OTHER ONES.

YEAH, THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE OTHERS, BUT YOU WEREN'T.

YOU WEREN'T THE ARCHITECT ON THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE, ARE YOU? NOW, I FORGET WHO YOU [INAUDIBLE] WAS ON IT.

WAS THAT [INAUDIBLE]? YEAH, THAT WAS [INAUDIBLE].

THAT'S FINE. OKAY.

I GUESS BEFORE YOU GO, I JUST WANTED TO SAY FROM THE COMMUNITY'S PERSPECTIVE, WE REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU DID IN PRESERVING A HISTORIC TREE ON ASH STREET, ADJUSTING YOUR SETBACKS TO PROTECT THE HISTORIC TREE, AND THEN THE LOVELY WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE FOR THAT PROPERTY.

LET'S JUST SAY IT LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND A LITTLE MORE RESIDENTIAL THAN THE PRIOR.

WHAT WAS THAT CONCRETE BLOCK? YES.

YEAH. THANK YOU.

IT'S SURPRISING THAT I DON'T MISS THE NEWS LEADER.

[CHUCKLING] SORRY.

YOU MIGHT MISS THE PARKING LOT.

WE KNOW WHERE YOU ARE.

YOU'RE IN THE DIGITAL REALM NOW.

THANK YOU, ANNE. OKAY. THANK YOU.

IS THERE ANYBODY HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 0104 30 SOUTH FIFTH STREET.

SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC RECORD AND MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION.

BOARD MEMBERS, FANTASTIC DESIGN.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPROVING THE AREA.

I THINK IT'S GREAT. I'LL MAKE A MOTION.

LOVELY DRAWINGS AS USUAL.

THANK YOU. I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2023-0104 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS.

AS PART OF THE LAW OF RECORD THAT THE HDC CASE 2023-0104 AS PRESENTED IS AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY

[00:15:08]

THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND. MOVED POINTER.

SECOND KOSACK. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? [SNEEZING] BLESS YOU.

HEARING NONE. MISS SYLVIE, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

MOVING ON. THANK YOU.

LET'S SEE.

SO BACK TO MIRANDA 2023-0108, THIS IS MIRANDA SHOW

[5.2 HDC 2023-0108 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR CERVERA BURGESS, 117 N. 6TH STREET]

THIS IS TO CONSTRUCT A ONE STORY ADDITION ON AN IMPORTANT.

THAT'S A HISTORIC STRUCTURE OR IS THAT A CONTRIBUTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE AS OPPOSED TO--IT'S CONTRIBUTING.

CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, THANK YOU.

DIRECTOR? YES. THANK YOU FOR BRIEFLY SUMMARIZING IT.

IT IS REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT IN A ONE STORY ADDITION.

IT DOES MEET ALL SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.

IT IS ACTUALLY LOCATED BEHIND THE PRINCIPAL FACADE OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, AND THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS TO TO CONNECT WITH THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE AT A POINT WHERE A LATER ADDITION WAS MADE THE DETAILS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED AS PART OF THE PACKET AND MATERIALS FOR YOUR REVIEW UNDER THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, THERE IS A PORTION OF IT WHICH INDICATES THAT IT SHOULD BE MADE DISTINGUISHED IN ITS DESIGN.

IT MADE DIFFERENT SO THAT IT DOESN'T APPEAR CONSISTENT WITH THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, AND SO, ALTHOUGH BEAUTIFULLY DESIGNED, IT DOES INDICATE IN THE VISION AND INTENT FOR THE PROJECT THAT ITS INTENT IS TO MATCH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE I WOULD ASK THAT THE BOARD HELP PROVIDE THE APPLICANT WITH SUGGESTIONS ON THAT DIFFERENTIATION SO THAT THEY MAY MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR PROJECT.

QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR.

HEARING? NONE. JOSE, IF YOU COULD HELP US OUT HERE.

COME ON UP. IDENTIFY YOURSELF.

FOR THE RECORD, I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT, FOR THE RECORD.

JOSE MIRANDA. MIRANDA ARCHITECTS 309.5 CENTER STREET, SUITE 206.

THIS IS AN ADDITION THAT'S ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY CONNECTING TO AN EARLY 80S ADDITION THAT WAS DONE PRE-HDC.

THAT ADDITION, I THINK IT WAS BUILT BY VERNON LONG MATCHED THE DETAILING OF THE HOUSE, INCLUDING THE SIDING.

IT IS WOOD SIDING.

IT'S GOT A THREE INCH EXPOSURE THE OWNER, BECAUSE THIS IS A FAMILY HOMESTEAD THAT HAS BEEN IN THE FAMILY SINCE IT WAS ERECTED, AND BECAUSE SURVEYOR BURGESS WANTS TO REMAIN IN HER HOUSE AT 73 YEARS OLD, THERE ARE NO BEDROOMS DOWNSTAIRS.

SO THIS IS BASICALLY BECOMING HER LIVING QUARTERS ON THE FIRST FLOOR.

WE'VE PUSHED THE ADDITION BACK TO THE REAR OF THE LOT, SO AS NOT TO EVEN TRY TO COMPETE WITH THE BEAUTIFUL VICTORIAN NEAR THE FRONT I KNOW THAT WHAT THE RULES ARE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO DISTINGUISH.

MY, I'M AMBIVALENT ABOUT THAT REQUIREMENT ONLY BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE SOMETIMES WE DUMB DOWN OUR ARCHITECTURE SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN CLEARLY KNOW WHAT IS HISTORIC AND WHAT ISN'T IN THIS CASE THE OWNERS DO WANT WOOD SIDING.

WE WOULD ENTERTAIN THE OPTION OF NOT MATCHING THE EXACT WIDTH, MAYBE GOING UP TO FOUR AND A HALF OR SOME OTHER WIDTH, BUT THEY DO WANT WOOD SIDING AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'VE DESIGNED THAT AT LEAST CLEARLY DISTINGUISHES IT.

IF WE NEED TO PUT A SIGN ON, IT SAYS CIRCA 2024 WE JUST DON'T WANT TO GET INTO PAINTING AT A DIFFERENT COLOR OR ANYTHING ELSE.

THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE PROPERTY, AND WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP [INAUDIBLE] IN HER HOME AND BE ABLE TO USE IT RIGHT NOW SHE'S HAVING TO NEGOTIATE THOSE STEPS, GETTING UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR, AND AT 73 YEARS OF AGE, THAT BECOMES A CHALLENGE.

AS YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO ACCOMMODATE OUR CLIENTS.

SO I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND GIVE YOU LET YOU GUIDE ME AS TO WHAT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE SOLUTION HERE.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA? ON THE MAIN STRUCTURE HAS THOSE BEAUTIFUL OLD WINDOWS WITH THE THIN MULLIONS.

SO I MEAN, RIGHT OFF THE BAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE NEWER, YES, ARCHITECTURALLY CORRECT.

CORRECT. NEWER WINDOWS.

SO THAT TO ME WOULD BE A DIFFERENTIATING.

THAT'S CORRECT BECAUSE THE EVEN THE ADDITION WAS DONE 80S WERE A MARVIN PRODUCT WHICH HAD A WIDER MUTTON.

WE'RE GOING TO MATCH THOSE WINDOWS, AND YOU'RE RIGHT THERE'S ELEMENTS THAT ARE CLEARLY DISTINGUISH NOT JUST THE SIDING, AND THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD LIKE TO GET YOUR BUY IN THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK TOTALLY DIFFERENT I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT THIS IS NOT A VICTORIAN ERA ADDITION TO A VICTORIAN HOUSE.

[00:20:05]

YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO DO BRICK, PIERS.

WELL, ACTUALLY THEY'RE GOING TO BE CMU WITH A BRICK VENEER ON THE OUTSIDE WE'RE STUDYING DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THE SCREENING IN BETWEEN ON THE OLD HOUSE, THEY BASICALLY BRICKED IN IN BETWEEN, BUT LEFT IT KIND OF IN A BASKET WEAVE OPEN PATTERN.

I THINK ON THE NEW ONE, WE'VE GOT FLEXIBILITY TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHETHER IT'S HORIZONTAL OR SOME KIND OF A LATTICE, TO CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATE THE TWO.

THAT'S ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO DO THAT, AND YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS GREAT ARCHITECTURALLY, BUT ONCE YOU PUT LANDSCAPING UP, A LOT OF THAT FOUNDATION LINE SORT OF DISAPPEARS. SO YOU'RE KIND OF DOING WHAT YOU CAN TO MAKE IT LOOK DIFFERENT.

I THINK DOING THE, THE SIZE, JUST TAKING THE WOOD.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BOARD DISCUSSION, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

NO, I DON'T MIND I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

YEAH. SO GOING ON THE WINDOW.

SO [INAUDIBLE] YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A MODERN WINDOW, BUT THERE WILL BE THE SAME COLOR RED.

YES. THAT BURGUNDY.

THAT'S CORRECT. YES, AND THEN UH, SO I'M ASSUMING THAT THE EXISTING BRICK CHIMNEY WHERE YOU'RE CONNECTING THAT GOES AWAY, THAT CHIMNEY WAS A LATER ADDITION, AND WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE THAT. SO WE'RE PHYSICALLY CONNECTING ON THAT SIDE.

THAT FIREPLACE IS GOING AWAY.

IT'S JUST NOT USED VERY WELL.

IT WASN'T CONSTRUCTED VERY WELL, AND IT'S IN POOR SHAPE, AND THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT TREE ON THAT SIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT I DIDN'T SEE ON THE DRAWINGS.

IS THERE IS IT, IS IT THAT MAGNOLIA THAT MAGNOLIA THAT WE'RE SHOWING BEING REMOVED.

YES. OKAY.

YES, YES. [INAUDIBLE] THERE WERE SOME OTHER TREES ON THERE THAT HAD BEEN REMOVED BECAUSE THEY WERE IN POOR CONDITION, AND THE I THINK THE NEIGHBOR REMOVED A VERY LARGE OAK ON THAT OPEN.

YEAH. SO OLD PHOTOS WOULD SHOW THAT.

YES, AND THE REASON WE PUSHED THAT ADDITION BACK IS BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS GOT A POOL AND WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT, WELL, WE JUST ADD ON RIGHT IN LINE WITH THAT 80S ADDITION, BUT IT WOULD HAVE PUT HER BEDROOM RIGHT NEXT TO THAT POOL AREA.

SO WE DECIDED WE'VE GOT SUCH THE BLOCK.

IT'S BASICALLY THAT [INAUDIBLE] ENTIRE BLOCK.

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT PORTION AND JUST SHOVED IT A LITTLE FURTHER BACK, AND LAST QUESTION I HAVE I'M HAVING A HARD TIME VISUALIZING THE ROOF OVER THE I GUESS.

WHAT'S THE KITCHEN YEAH THE ROOF.

CAN YOU. YES.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT TO ME? CAN YOU PULL UP THE SITE PLAN? I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST WAY TO--GIVE ME JUST A MOMENT.

YEAH, THAT CONNECTING PIECE WAS THE HARDEST PART TO TRY TO WORK OUT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT ESSENTIALLY JUST LOOKING AT THIS IMAGE, WE HAVE A LITTLE WE HAVE A LITTLE HYPHEN THAT CONNECTS BACK TO THAT REAR ADDITION.

SO THIS IS BASICALLY A SIMPLE GABLE ROOF.

THIS BECAUSE IT'S SO DEEP GETS A BIGGER GABLE IF YOU SEE WHERE IT PEEKS OUT OVER HERE, BUT WE HAVE THIS SHAPE THAT'S A LONG RECTANGULAR SHAPE THAT HAS A GABLE ON BOTH ENDS.

SO WHAT WE'VE DONE.

OH. WHERE'S THAT? SORRY.

OH, YOU WANT ME TO GO BACK? NO.

JUST GO TO THE NEW SITE PLAN, NOT THE SURVEY.

THERE WE GO, I THINK.

THERE YOU GO.

DOWN, YOU CAN SEE THE ROOF LINES KIND OF DASHED ON HER.

UH HUH.

OKAY. PERFECT. OKAY.

RIGHT THERE. OKAY, SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS IS THE PEAK OF THE ROOF.

IT GABLES HERE, GABLES HERE.

SO THIS APPEARANCE IS THE SAME AS THIS APPEARANCE, WHICH IS WHAT THE 80S ADDITION WAS.

SO THIS IS A GABLE THAT CONNECTS.

THIS IS WHERE WE'RE TOUCHING THAT 80S CONNECTION, AND THIS IS THE AREA THAT WE NEED TO COVER.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'VE CREATED A BIG GABLE HERE, TIED IT INTO A HIP THAT IS CONNECTED HERE AND THEN THIS REAR PORCH HAS A SHED ROOF THAT KICKS OUT BECAUSE WE HAD THIS DEPTH, OBVIOUSLY, WE DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THIS GABLE POP UP OVER THIS GABLE BECAUSE OF THE HEIGHT.

SO WE JUST MADE THAT A HIP.

SO THIS SIDE OF THE HYPHEN DEAD ENDS KILLS INTO THE GABLE ON THIS SIDE.

YEAH. SO THAT JUST BUTTS INTO THE.

THAT'S CORRECT. BECAUSE THIS WILL GO UP THIS WILL RIDE UP HIGHER.

THIS IS A TALLER. YEAH.

IT'S A TALLER HIGHER PLATE HERE.

THIS IS JUST A LITTLE LOWER CONNECTING.

THE FRAMERS WILL LOVE YOU HEY, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE SOME GOOD MONEY ON THIS.

NO, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A HISTORIC BUILDING, YOU HAVE TO KIND OF MASSAGE THOSE ROOF LINES.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS WITH ROOF TRUSSES AND AND OFF THE SHELF ITEMS. YOU GOT TO REALLY CUSTOM CUT THEM.

YEAH. STICK BUILT.

THANK YOU SIR. OKAY, JOSE, WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS FROM THE STREET, I THOUGHT THE THING THAT WORKED FOR ME WAS THAT IT'S SO FAR BACK.

[00:25:08]

SO I'M STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF THE ADDITION.

HOW FAR BACK FROM THE MAIN HOUSE IS THIS? OR HOW FAR BACK FROM THE STREET IS THIS OKAY? ROUGHLY, YEAH.

HERE'S THE SCALE. HERE'S THE GRAPHIC SCALE.

YEAH. SO IF THIS IS SORRY I WANT TO, I WANT TO GUESS WE ARE 50FT BACK.

YEAH. SEE I THINK, I THINK THE DIRECTORS THE [INAUDIBLE].

YOU SEE THE MAGNOLIA. YEAH I MEAN IT'S WAY BACK.

IT'S WAY BACK. MAGNOLIA IS.

SO YOU CAN KIND OF GET A REFERENCE FOR WHERE THAT IS.

THE FACT THAT THE ORIGINAL HOUSE IS EFFECTIVELY SEPARATED FROM THE ADDITION IN A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF ROOM, GAVE ME A LITTLE MORE COMFORT THAT THE GOING FORWARD, 20 YEARS FROM NOW, YOU'D LOOK AT THAT AND YOU GO, OH, THAT'S THE YEAH, THAT'S THE LATER ADDITION IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THE AGING IN PLACE POPULATION.

YES. SO WHICH AND I THINK I DON'T KNOW IF WE, ARE WE IN BOARD DISCUSSION NOW? WELL I JUST WANTED TO THAT WAS MY FIRST QUESTION.

WE CAN GO TO THAT. UM OKAY.

GO AHEAD GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD TAMMI, GO AHEAD.

SO I THINK TO ANSWER ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS, WE HAVE EFFECTIVELY ENOUGH MODERN BUILDING MATERIALS THAT IF ANYBODY IS GOING TO DO ANY SORT OF DECONSTRUCTIVE FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION IN THE FUTURE, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY OBVIOUS, AND AND IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO WOOD INSTEAD OF [INAUDIBLE], YEAH, GO FOR IT.

YEAH, WE WOULD PREFER THAT.

SO IF WE NEED A SLIGHT EXPOSURE DIFFERENTIATION PLUS WE'VE GOT THE NEW MODERN WINDOWS AND THEN THE FOUNDATIONAL, THE SKIRTING IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, EVEN IF THAT'S BEHIND LANDSCAPING, THAT'S JUST A WHOLE 'NOTHER DIFFERENT, AND I APPLAUD KELLY FOR FLAGGING THIS BECAUSE THIS IS A NUANCE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND. YES.

SO I THINK IT'S GOOD, BUT WE ARE WE ARE WELL WITHIN OUR REASONING.

YOU'RE PROVIDING THE RATIONALE FOR WHY WE'RE GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THE CORRECT, CORRECT STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.

FROILAN? NO, I THINK I AGREE.

I THINK LOOKING AT THE EXPOSURE WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN MY VIEW, KEEPING THE WOOD EXPOSURE, BUT I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

DID YOU DID YOU EVER THINK ABOUT AN ALTERNATIVE ON THE CONNECTING ELEMENT? DO SOMETHING, DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT? I THINK THAT'S THE BATHROOM, AND ON ONE SIDE, NO, WE FELT I MEAN, BASICALLY MY GUIDANCE FROM THE CLIENT WAS WE'D LIKE IT TO MATCH THE EXISTING.

SO WE JUST KEPT THAT SAME VOCABULARY, JUST TRY TO OBVIOUSLY WITH THE CONTEMPORARY WINDOWS, BUT WE KEPT THE OVERHANGS THE SAME, DECIDING THE SAME. VERY GOOD.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MISTER? NO. OKAY, WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 0108? DID I GET THAT RIGHT? I THINK SO.

I GOT THE RIGHT CASE. YEAH.

OKAY. YEAH. YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TO TELL US? COME ON UP. COME ON UP. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.

I'M SORRY? NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

ABSOLUTELY. CORY FUHRMAN, 103 NORTH SIXTH STREET.

WHO AM I TALKING TO? YEAH. SO I'M THE NEIGHBOR WITH THE POOL.

WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING TO YOU LATER.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. YES, SIR.

YEAH. I'M NOT PREPARED FOR THIS PART OF MY PRESENTATION, BUT I DID WANT TO SPEAK TO THIS JUST FOR WHATEVER MY OPINION IS WORTH, IS THAT I BELIEVE THIS IS A WONDERFUL ADDITION, AND I SEE THAT THIS, THIS NEW ADDITION THAT WE'RE ADDING ONTO HERE REALLY DOES NOT HAVE A LOT OF THE ELEMENTAL STYLES OF A VICTORIAN ADDITION.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, TO ME, IT LOOKS FAIRLY OBVIOUS THAT THIS WAS AN ADDITION ADDED ON, SO THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS FROM A HISTORICAL STANDPOINT, YOU TRULY CAN SEE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC PARK.

THAT'S JUST MY TWO CENTS.

AS THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR WHO HAS TO LOOK AT IT.

SO AND YEAH, THAT YEAH, AND I NOTICED IT IS WITHIN TEN FEET BUT NOT CLOSER THAN TEN FEET OF MY PROPERTY LINE, AND I'M FINE WITH THAT OBVIOUSLY.

SO YEAH, SHE CAN ACT LIKE SHE OWNS IT AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, [CHUCKLING] BUT I THINK IT'S, IT'S GREAT AND IT'S GOING TO LOOK FANTASTIC.

THANK YOU, MR. FUHRMAN. THANK YOU.

ANYBODY ELSE? IF NOT, WE'LL MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION THE QUESTION I THINK I HEARD WAS WHETHER WE WERE GOING TO ASK FOR ANY MODIFICATIONS TO THE APPLICATION AS PROVIDED BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? WELL, CAN WE GO TO. IF I CAN, I'D LIKE TO GO TO TEN FIRST.

[INAUDIBLE] I JUST FELT THAT CHANGING THE, THE SIZE A LITTLE BIT EXPOSURE MAYBE TO FOUR FROM THREE AND LIKE TAMMI ARTICULATED WITH THE SKIRTING IN THE BOTTOM AND THE NEW WINDOWS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, THIS IS CLEARLY AN ADDITION.

I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE POSITIVE THAT I SEE.

I AGREE, I THINK CHANGING THE EXPOSURE WOULD GO A LONG WAY, BUT I LIKE THE SCALE IN SITE PLAN.

[00:30:04]

I LIKE THE ENTRY, THE ENTRYWAY AND THE CEDAR OR THE SHAKES THAT THEY USE FROM THE MAIN BUILDING.

SO I THINK THAT'S POSITIVE.

LIKE, MY CONCERN WAS THE ROOF, AND I THINK JOSE EXPLAINED IT HOW IT WORKS, AND WHEN YOU WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT REALLY FROM REAL PERSPECTIVE, IT'S GOING TO MAKE SENSE.

SO I THINK I MEAN, I THINK IT HAS A LOT OF POSITIVES.

IT'S JUST FINE TUNING SOME ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS TO, TO DIFFERENTIATE A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT I THINK FOR ME IT'S THE SCALE AND MASS OF THE ADDITION. IT REALLY CALLS IT OUT AS AN ADDITION.

RIGHT, AND THE FACT THAT IT'S SET BACK, REALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL HISTORIC HOME, IT'S IN THE BACKYARD OF THE TRUE HISTORIC HOME.

RIGHT SO I THINK IT STEPS BACK AND IT SETS ITSELF AS SUBSERVIENT TO THE MAIN HOUSE.

I THINK IT FULFILLS THE SPIRIT OF THAT.

TAMMI, ANYTHING TO ADD? NO.

MR. [INAUDIBLE].

MRS. FILKOFF. I JUST HAVE, I GUESS, A POINT OF CLARITY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR IN THE STAFF REPORT, MISS GIBSON, YOU INDICATED THAT IT DID NOT COMPLY WITH NUMBER NINE, AND THAT WAS THE DISTINCTION.

IS WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT? NOT NECESSARILY ANY DESTRUCTION OF HISTORIC MATERIALS.

CORRECT. OKAY.

SO WE DID HEAR THAT THE FIREPLACES COME OR THE CHIMNEYS COMING DOWN BUT THAT WAS NOT HISTORIC ANYWAY.

SO THE ATTACHMENT WILL BE ALL ASSOCIATED WITH THAT 80S ADDITION.

OKAY. OKAY.

THANK YOU. SO I APOLOGIZE I GOT LOST IN THE THREAD HERE THE PROPOSED SITE IS HOW MANY INCHES? WELL, IT IS THIS IS THREE RIGHT NOW.

IT'S THREE RIGHT NOW.

YES. SO I MEAN, DO WE GO THREE AND A HALF SO WE DON'T GET TOO CLUNKY? I WOULD ARGUE THAT GIVEN IT IS SO FAR BACK ON THE PROPERTY THAT I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MATTERS.

IT'S SO FAR BACK.

THIS ISN'T LIKE THE FUHRMAN HOUSE WHICH IS ON THE STREET.

RIGHT, AND IT'S MUCH HARDER TO MAKE.

YEAH, MUCH HARDER TO MAKE A DISTINGUISHING TO MAKE, TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.

I THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS, SINCE WE ARE GOING AGAINST STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, WE REALLY HAVE TO PROVIDE GOOD REASONING AND SOME SUGGESTIONS, AND I THINK WE SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE WE'VE RECOMMENDED FOR COUNTLESS OTHER CASES.

[INAUDIBLE] I DON'T DISAGREE.

3.5IN WOULD MAKE IT THREE AND A HALF.

YEAH. WOULD NOT MAKE IT CLUNKY BUT RIGHT.

DIFFERENT I DON'T DISAGREE.

MY POINT IS THOUGH, THAT IT IS SO FAR BACK THAT IT IS UNLIKELY THAT IT WOULD [INAUDIBLE].

YEAH, BUT THAT'S BUT WE WILL THE CONSENSUS THEN IS 3.5IN.

YEAH, AND CAN THE APPLICANT LIVE WITH THREE AND A HALF.

WE'LL CALL MR. [INAUDIBLE]. YEAH WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE 1980S ADDITION.

ALL THAT SIDING WAS CUSTOM-MAILED TO MATCH THE MAIN HOUSE.

IT'S NOT AN OFF THE SHELF ITEM.

SO GOING TO THREE AND A HALF, THEN WE CAN GO WITH A STOCK ITEM THAT'S GOT A STILL WOOD SIDING THAT'S GOT A [INAUDIBLE] I THINK I HEARD.

YES. THERE. YES.

THE ANSWER IS YES.

THANK YOU. ALWAYS TRY TO GET TO THAT.

OKAY THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF YOU SMART FOLKS IS GOING TO MAKE A MOTION WITH THAT PROVISO INCLUDED HOLD ON BEFORE I MOVE THAT, WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION THAT WE NEEDED TO ACCOUNT FOR? I THINK WE HAVE CLEARLY IDENTIFIED THE RATIONALE FOR WHY WE'RE MAKING THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

IS THERE ANYTHING WAS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT A FOUNDATIONAL CHANGE? NO. OKAY, THEN LET'S DO IT.

I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2023-0108, WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE EXPOSURE OF THE WOODEN SIDING IS INCREASED TO 3.5IN, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW.

PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2023-0108 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR, STANDARDS AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND.

MOVED. EXCLUDES SECONDED POINTER ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

I WOULD JUST ADD THANK YOU FOR THAT VERY THOUGHTFUL HANDLING THAT IMPORTANT HOUSE WE'RE SO HAPPY IT STAYS IN THE FAMILY.

WE'RE SO HAPPY THAT THEY GET TO CONTINUE USING IT, AND JOSE'S SENSITIVE ADDITION WILL ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN, AND YOUR MINOR MODIFICATION WILL CERTAINLY MAKE THE

[00:35:01]

MISS SYLVIE, WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? MOVING ON, CASE 0109, THIS IS SAINT MICHAEL'S CATHOLIC CHURCH.

[5.3 HDC 2023-0109 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR ST MICHAEL'S CATHOLIC CHURCH, 202 N. 4TH STREET]

YEAH. YES, DIRECTOR.

YEAH, AND YOU'VE BRIEFLY SUMMARIZED THAT THE CASE IS LOCATED AT 220 NORTH FOURTH STREET, AND IT IS THE REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING ENTRY INTO SAINT MICHAEL'S CHURCH A NON-ORIGINAL ENTRY INTO THE CHURCH WAS.

SORRY. YES.

THE REPLACEMENT WILL EXPAND THE EXISTING ENTRY TO BETTER ACCOMMODATE THE RAMP EXPANSION THAT IS REQUESTED AS PART OF IT IT WILL BE CONCRETE WITH SCORED CONCRETE ON THE EDGES, ALLOWING FOR RAILINGS TO ALLOW PEOPLE GETTING IN AND OUT OF THE CHURCH A LITTLE BIT EASIER AND THEN AT THE BOTTOM, WHERE THE STAIRS MEET THE SURFACE OF THE GROUND, STAMPED HEXAGONAL CONCRETE, AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL.

QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR.

DID YOU REQUIRE THEM TO SAVE ALL THOSE TILES AND THINGS? RECYCLE THE MATERIAL.

[INAUDIBLE] MR. MIRANDA, COULD YOU JOIN US, PLEASE? WE SHOULD JUST HAVE YOU STAY THERE.

WE'LL GET YOU A CHAIR. I'LL GET ME A CHAIR.

JOSE MIRANDA, 109. EXCUSE ME.

309.5 CENTER STREET 33206.

YES. THE FRONT STEPS AND THE RAMP ARE NON-HISTORIC THE TILE IS NOT HISTORIC.

IT'S ACTUALLY POPPING UP.

IT'S POPPING OFF SO THE INTENT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THEY HAVE, AND IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IT IS PRETTY SERIOUS BECAUSE IT HAPPENED A LOT DURING THE PANDEMIC, IS THEY HAD A LOT OF FUNERALS AND THEY GETTING CASKETS IN BECAUSE IT'S A PROCESSION GETTING UP THOSE STEPS AND THE RAMP AND YOU ENDED UP BEHIND THE DOOR.

SO IT NEEDED A LOT MORE ROOM.

PLUS AFTER MASS WITH THE PRIESTS THERE AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO SAY HELLO OR TRY TO AVOID THEM, WE NEED A LITTLE MORE ROOM TO NEGOTIATE THAT.

SO IT MADE PERFECT SENSE TO KEEP THE SAME SHAPE, MAKE IT LARGER, MAKE THE RAMP A LITTLE MORE ACCESSIBLE, AND THEN WE'RE ALSO CHANGING THE SWING OF THE EXISTING DOORS.

THEY SWING OUT, BUT THEY ONLY STOP AT 90.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM SWING TO 180, WHICH MEANS NEW HARDWARE, BUT WE'RE KEEPING THE SAME DOORS BUT IT'S LONG OVERDUE, AND TO GET APPROVAL.

ANY IDEA WHEN THESE STEPS WERE INSTALLED? 1987.

YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY 80S BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN AROUND.

THEY THEY GOT THE NEW FINISH PROBABLY SEVEN YEARS AGO.

YEAH. THEY DIDN'T LAST VERY LONG.

THAT TILE. THIS IS.

I'M SORRY. BOARD MEMBERS QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA. I DO SO SO FOR CLARITY, THE ACTUAL SURFACE OF THE NEW ADDITION, IF YOU WILL.

IT'S JUST BARE CONCRETE, RIGHT? YEAH. WELL, WE'RE GOING TO PUT A COATING ON IT.

I MEAN, A SLIP RESISTANT COATING, PROBABLY AN EPOXY OR AN ACRYLIC.

WHAT ABOUT THE RAILINGS AND THE GUARDRAILS, THE RAILINGS AND THE GUARDRAILS.

ALL OF THOSE WILL BE A PRE-FINISHED DARK BRONZE, WHICH IT'LL MATCH THE DARK BRONZE THAT WE DID ON THE ADDITION HANDRAILS.

SO IT ALL COMES TOGETHER.

WILL YOU BE USING A COLORED CONCRETE OR WOULD IT JUST BE A WHITE.

WE'LL PROBABLY GO WITH A LITTLE GRAY TINT AND YEAH, ESPECIALLY WITH THE I MEAN IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER BECAUSE HONESTLY ONCE YOU PUT THE TOPPING OR ACRYLIC COATING ON, IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE COLOR ANYWAY.

SO BRIGHT IT IS.

YEAH, IT'S SUPER BRIGHT WITH IT, AND MY OTHER QUESTION, JOSE, IS THE WAY THE RAMP IS GOING.

WILL YOU HAVE TO RELOCATE THAT SIGN.

YES. OKAY. SO IT'S COMING OVER.

YEAH I'VE SHOWN THAT SIGN.

I'VE SHOWN YEAH.

THE EXISTING SIGN IS RIGHT HERE.

YEAH, AND WE'RE SHOWING OPTION OF EITHER SLIDING IT THERE OR SLIDING IT HERE OKAY BUT THAT'LL BE A SEPARATE PERMIT.

SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS ACTUALLY THE RAMP IS TUCKING IN BETWEEN THE EXISTING PALM TREES THAT ARE THERE.

SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO REDO THAT PORTION BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO REALLY COME HERE.

WE'D BE SPILLING OUT IN ORDER TO GET A RAMP THAT ACTUALLY FUNCTIONED, AND IT'S A LITTLE WIDER THAN NORMAL RAMP BECAUSE CASKETS TAKE A LITTLE MORE ROOM.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA.

JOSE. TIM? I JUST HAD A COMMENT.

I JUST I THINK THE SCALE OF THE NEW LANDING WAS REALLY NEEDED.

I MEAN, THE SANCTUARY ITSELF GOT EXPANDED, YET THE LANDING STAYED THE SAME, AND LIKE YOU SAID, PEOPLE CONGREGATE THERE BEFORE MASS AND AFTER MASS, AND THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR EVERYBODY TO STAND.

THIS IS GOING TO MAKE IT FAR MORE USABLE AND FRIENDLY TO THE SCALE OF THE SANCTUARY.

AGREED. OKAY.

[00:40:05]

IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 109? HEARING NONE.

WE'LL CLOSE IT AND MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION THIS IS REALLY A NEEDED IMPROVEMENT.

IT IS, AS THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS.

WHEN I FIRST VISITED HERE MANY YEARS AGO, AND I THOUGHT, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE ENTRANCE TO THIS CHURCH? IT'S JUST SO I'M REALLY GRATEFUL THAT THIS IS MOVING FORWARD.

IT'S A SMALL BUT IMPORTANT IMPROVEMENT.

ANY OTHER SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.

YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2023-0109 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW.

PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2023-0109, AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND. MOVED POZZETTA.

SECOND KOSACK. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. MISS SYLVIE, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

MOVING ON. CASE ZERO ONE AND ALL Y'ALL IN THAT CONGREGATION, YOU CAN THANK US.

[5.4 HDC 2023-0110 - MOSER DESIGN GROUP, AGENT FOR CHRISTOPHER + KELLY MANUS, 901 SAN FERNANDO STREET]

YEAH. 0110 THIS IS FOR MANUS AT 901 SAN FERNANDO STREET IN OLD TOWN.

I WISH JEREMIAH WAS HERE BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO THANK HIM FOR GETTING THOSE IMPROVEMENTS ON [INAUDIBLE].

BEEN UP THERE A FEW TIMES THIS WEEK.

ARE THEY FINISHED? YES.

WELL, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THEY'RE FINISHED.

THERE MAY BE THINGS THAT THEY THINK THEY NEED TO DO, BUT BOARD MEMBERS DIDN'T WE THINK THAT THE ONE WAY WAS GOING TO BE WESTBOUND.

WE LEFT IT UP TO YEAH, WE LEFT IT UP TO WHERE IT MADE THE MOST SENSE FOR THEM.

OKAY. IT ENDED UP BEING WESTBOUND AND I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE EASTBOUND, BUT NEVERTHELESS LET'S MOVE ON.

DIRECTOR, WHAT HAVE YOU GOT FOR US EASTBOUND? BECAUSE IT GOES AWAY FROM IT.

IT GOES TOWARDS THE RIVER, AND THEY THEY I THOUGHT THEY I THOUGHT THEY WELL, THAT'S WESTBOUND.

YEAH, AND I THOUGHT THEY WANTED IT EASTBOUND.

I THOUGHT THEY DID TOO. YEAH.

THEY DID. DOES IT MATTER? WE'LL HEAR ABOUT IT. WE CAN CHANGE IT SOME.

THE COMMISSIONERS WILL HEAR ABOUT IT.

SORRY, DIRECTOR. I DIDN'T MEAN TO GET OFF THE PATH THERE, BUT TELL US ABOUT SAN FERNANDO STREET.

YES GOOD EVENING, AND I KNOW THE APPLICANT WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE TONIGHT'S MEETING, SO ANY DISCUSSION WE'LL HAVE TO SHARE WITH THEM SUBJECT TO THEIR APPROVAL THE APPLICANT SEEKS TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY, SINGLE FAMILY HOME WITH A DETACHED ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT AND GARAGE AT THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 901 SAN FERNANDO. THIS PROPERTY IS COMPRISED OF TWO MEDIA [INAUDIBLE] LOCATED IN OLD TOWN.

THE DESIGN ITSELF HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY CONSIDERED BY THE BOARD AND ISSUED A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL BASED ON THE DISTINGUISHED AREA AT TEN FEET SEPARATING THE TWO MEDIA PIONEERS AND IT WAS [COUGHING] CONSTRUCTED PREVIOUSLY.

SO THE SAME DESIGN ARCHITECT MOVED THE STRUCTURE AND IS PLACING IT HERE STAFF HAS EVALUATED THE ENTIRE SITE FOR CONSISTENCY WITH THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, AS WELL AS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND HAS ISSUED A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL, AND I BELIEVE THAT YOU DO HAVE ADEQUATE MATERIALS THIS EVENING TO CONSIDER THIS AS A FINAL APPROVAL, AND IT MEETS ALL THE APPROPRIATE SETBACKS FOR THAT.

WE HAVE ASKED FOR OLD TOWN, AND YES, AND THEY'VE EVEN INCLUDED THE HVAC, WHICH HAS BEEN A POINT OF CONTENTION RECENTLY IN OLD TOWN ON THEIR DESIGN PLAN SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT IT IS COMPLIANT WITH OUR STANDARDS.

YEAH, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE TIGHT SETBACKS.

QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR. YEAH.

SHE'S YEAH IT'S APPROPRIATE OKAY.

YOU SEE, IT'S ON THAT DRAWING THERE.

YOU CAN SEE IT'S BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE, AND SO IT'S WITHIN OR OUTSIDE THE FIVE FOOT RECOMMENDATION QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR HERE. YOU HAVE APPROVAL BASED UM WITH PROVIDED THAT WE HAVE THEY GET A PERMIT FOR THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT SCREENING.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK FOR OR? WITHIN THEIR PERMIT THEY WILL NEED TO PROVIDE THOSE DETAILS THAT SHOW THE SCREENING AND WHATEVER MATERIAL THEY DECIDE TO USE.

I'M NOT SURE WE CARED AS LONG AS THEY DO IT RIGHT.

OKAY. IS THAT FAIR? JIM, I KIND OF HAD THE SAME QUESTION I HAD ON THAT PREVIOUS PROJECT.

I THOUGHT THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR FIVE FEET OF SEPARATION BETWEEN A PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, AND HERE IT'S FOUR FOOT TWO.

[00:45:09]

OKAY, GREAT.

I THOUGHT WE HAD ENFORCED THAT REQUIREMENT BEFORE FOR OLD TOWN.

YEAH, I FOR SOME REASON IT'S STICKING IN MY HEAD AND IT IS IN MINE AS WELL.

IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT THAT FAR OFF AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY COULD EASILY MAKE IT COMPLY.

IF IT WASN'T, IT WAS THE GUIDELINES [INAUDIBLE] REAL QUICK FOR THAT.

IT'S NOT A GUIDELINE FOR THE CITY'S CODE.

IT'S A POTENTIALLY A FLORIDA BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENT, IS WHAT I THINK MR. POZZETTA COULD BE THINKING OF.

SO IT WOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THAT IS WITHIN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE OR IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, BUT IT MAY REQUIRE SOME ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE THEY GET FINAL PERMITTING, AND YOU SAID THE APPLICANT'S NOT PRESENT TONIGHT ONE THING I SAW, AND I GUESS I'M ASKING YOU SO THAT IN CASE THEY WATCHED THE I'M SURE THERE'S SOMETHING IN.

YEAH. WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT DETAILS, I SAW THAT IT HAS CALLING OUT LIKE TEN BY TEN POSTS FOR PORTRAITS, WHICH IS KIND OF COOL AND INTERESTING BUT I LOOKED FOR HOW ARE THESE THINGS CONNECTED? AND I COULDN'T FIND ANY CONNECTION DETAIL FOR THE POST TO THE BEAMS ABOVE, AND THAT GOT ME A LITTLE WORRIED.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY GET TO BUILDING THIS THING AND THEY DON'T HAVE A DETAIL FOR IT? WHAT I GUESS FROM MY STANDPOINT IS BEING ON THE HDC, I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE EXPOSED STRAPS BEING NOT THAT I THINK THEY WOULD, BUT THERE'S IT'S GOT TO BE HELD DOWN SOMEHOW AND IT'S NOT SHOWN WHERE I SAW IT ON THE DRAWINGS RIGHT NOW, AND WAS THE QUESTION THAT I WOULD HAVE LOVED THE APPLICANT TO ANSWER.

YEAH I WONDER IF THERE'S A POST AND THEN IT'S BUILT AROUND IT.

WELL, THERE'S NO TEN INCHES IT'S GOT THE STRAPPING HIDDEN BY IT.

IF THEY DO A BUCKET THEN.

SOMETIMES THEY DO A BUCKET STRAP AND THEN THEY WRAP IT, BUT THERE'S NO WRAPPING ON THESE.

LIKE JIM SAYING IT JUST GOES CLEAR UP TO THE TOP.

YEAH. NO, I WAS SAYING THAT THEY COULD HAVE A POST IN THERE AND THEN THEY BUILD SMALLER.

THEY WRAP IT ALL THE WAY UP WITH WITH TWO BY OR ONE BY 12 OR 1 BY TENS.

SURE THAT'S THE REASON IT'S IMPORTANT TO COME TO YOUR HDC.

I KNOW THE MASSES HAVE BEEN TRAVELING, AND YEAH, THEY MUST NOT HAVE ASKED THEIR MUST HAVE ASKED THEIR AGENT TO BE HERE.

MOSER, THE ARCHITECT OUT OF WHERE ARE THEY? BUFORD? BUFORD, PROBABLY.

YEAH. I MEAN, THAT'S ABOUT AS MINOR A COMMENT AS YOU CAN HAVE.

WELL, BUT THE BUILDING CODE QUESTION IS MORE SUBSTANTIVE YEAH, AND SHOULD BE ADDRESSED SOMEHOW.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE EASILY ACCOMMODATED.

IT NEEDS TO GO EIGHT INCHES TO MEET THE FIVE FEET.

IF THAT WAS THE CASE, AND IT KIND OF NEED TO KNOW IF THAT IS THE REQUIREMENT.

RIGHT, AND UNLESS WE'RE ARE YOU FIRM IN THAT UNDERSTANDING.

WELL, BUT IT WOULD STILL BE ON THE BUILDING PERMIT THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO MEET.

I JUST WARNED THEM. I DO REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT THAT REQUIREMENT FOR OLD TOWN BEFORE.

SO WHEN YOU BROUGHT IT UP IN THE OTHER CASE, I THOUGHT I MISSED THAT AS WELL.

SO WE COULD I WOULD CAUTION THE OWNER TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU WANT TO, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE BEFORE IT GETS BUILT, AND IS THERE ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY IN THE DESIGN THAT THIS CAN BE ACCOMMODATED WITHOUT CHANGING THE BUILDING? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

SO DO YOU WANT TO MAKE IT A REQUIREMENT OF THE APPROVAL, THE WRAPPING AND THE MEET THE BUILDING CODE RELATIVE TO THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK. WOULD THAT BE AN ACCEPTABLE ACCOMMODATION? GET EVERYBODY ON BOARD IF REQUIRED.

YEAH, RIGHT OF WAY TO SAY.

YEAH, IT'S KIND OF A STRETCH, BUT, HEY, IF WE'RE RIGHT, WE'RE RIGHT.

IF WE'RE WRONG, IT WON'T MATTER BECAUSE WE MADE IT A CONDITION.

BECAUSE WE MADE IT. IT'S REQUIRED.

YEAH, AND JIM IN DETAIL 3A2 IT DOES SAY THAT IT'S A TWO BY TEN BOARD FACING [INAUDIBLE] SO THEY CAN HIDE IT.

SO YEAH, IF THEY HAVE STRAPPING, THEY CAN HIDE THEM.

THEY CAN HIDE THEM. SO THAT WOULD BE RESOLVED.

OKAY. SO WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION AND ACCOMMODATE THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT.

SHOULD IT SHOULD IT BE PART OF THE BUILDING CODE? THAT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE, JIM, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS WHEN THESE PLANS GOT TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, THEY WOULD CATCH IT.

RIGHT. SO BUT HAVING SAID THAT NOTHING WRONG WITH CALLING IT OUT.

YEAH. WHAT WOULD BE THE I GUESS ALL I'M THINKING ABOUT IS WHAT'S THE PROPER WAY TO SAY IT.

YEAH, JUST WHAT YOU WHAT WE JUST SAID THAT IT WOULD MAKE THAT WOULD MEET THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE RELATIVE TO.

I MEAN, THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION, RIGHT? TO THE OWNER TO VERIFY THAT BEFORE THEY BEFORE THEY PUT SHOVELS IN THE GROUND.

[00:50:04]

FIVE FEET IS A CONDITION FOR US THAT IT MEETS FLORIDA CODE.

YEAH. I THINK IT COULD BE JUST A NOTE.

YEAH, YEAH. I DON'T THINK IT'S A CONDITION FOR APPROVAL.

OKAY. OKAY, THEN IT'S BEEN NOTED SO YOU CAN JUST PASS THAT ALONG TO THEM.

YES. THANK YOU. APPLICANT AND THEIR LOVELY.

YEAH. THEY'RE GREAT PEOPLE.

YEAH. THEY'RE LOVELY PEOPLE, AND WE KNOW THAT WHENEVER THEY NEED TO DO WE'LL IF THE CONTRACTOR SCREWS US UP, WE'LL NEVER HEAR THE END OF IT.

WELL, I THINK IT'LL BE ANOTHER GREAT HOUSE IN OLD TOWN.

YEAH. WELL THAT'S THE THING.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL CORNER.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU ARE UP THERE.

IT'S REALLY A NICE CORNER WITH A GREAT VIEW AND A GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO THIS WOULD BE PRETTY COOL.

ALL RIGHT, SO WE WANT TO MOVE THIS BAD BOY I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2023-0110 WITHOUT CONDITIONS, AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AS PART OF THE RECORD. THE HDC CASE, HDC 2023-0110 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE OLD TOWN FERNANDINA PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES TO AWARD FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND. MOVE POYNTER.

SECOND ESCLUSA.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

MISS SYLVIE.

THANK YOU. MOVING ON TO 0099 THIS IS PERFORMANCE,

[6.1 HDC 2023-0099 - NOCCA CONTRACTING LLC, AGENT FOR ASHLEY & COREY FURMAN, 103 N. 6TH STREET]

DIRECTOR? YES, AND YOU'VE HEARD THIS CASE AND APPROVED IT CONCEPTUALLY.

REMEMBER, THE APPLICANT IS BACK FOR FINAL CONSIDERATION THIS EVENING AND HAS PROVIDED SOME UPDATED MATERIALS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, INCLUDING THE WALL DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

REALLY GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL DESIGN INTENT, WHICH IS TO MATCH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE THERE THEY HAVE PROVIDED SOME ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION TO BETTER ARTICULATE THEIR VISION FOR THE STRUCTURE AND WHY THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THIS PARTICULAR DIRECTION, AND I KNOW THAT MR. FUHRMAN IS HERE TO SPEAK TO THAT DIRECTLY AGAIN, UNDER THAT SAME STANDARD FOR THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION, BECAUSE IT DOES CALL THAT YOU SHOULD MAKE A DISTINCTION FROM THAT ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, AND WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED IS WORD FOR WORD TO MATCH THE EXISTING AS INDICATED, THEIR DESIGN INTENT READS TO MATCH EXISTING OKAY AS PROVIDED WITHIN THE APPLICATION ITSELF STAFF DOES HAVE TO ISSUE A RECOMMENDATION OF DENIAL, AND HOPES THAT YOU WILL FIND WAYS THAT YOU MAY PROVIDE DIRECTION AND SUFFICIENT, UM IDEAS FOR MAKING THAT DISTINCTION SO THEY CAN PROCEED WITH THEIR PROJECT AT A FINAL REVIEW AND I DO HAVE ALL OF THEIR DESIGN MATERIALS UPDATED.

I CAN PULL THAT UP INDEPENDENTLY AS PART OF YOUR CONVERSATION THIS EVENING.

QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR.

OKAY, MR. POZZETTA, THE APPLICANT IS HERE, IS THAT CORRECT? YES. I THINK [INAUDIBLE].

OKAY. I HAVE A JUST A CLARITY QUESTION, MISS GIBSON.

SO THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, THEY DON'T REALLY GIVE SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AS TO WHAT.

HOW IS THAT WE SHOULD DIFFERENTIATE JUST IT LEAVES IT UP TO UP TO OUR JUDGMENT.

IT DOES ABSOLUTELY.

I SEE THANK YOU.

SIX INCH SIDING RATHER THAN THE EXISTING.

THERE'S A DIFFERENT DETAIL ABOVE THE ARCH WINDOWS.

RIGHT. SO WE'RE STARTING TO SEE SOME DIFFERENTIATIONS HERE THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSION.

I THINK WE'RE GOOD.

SHOULD I GO AHEAD AND CALL MR. FUHRMAN UP? MR. FUHRMAN, IF YOU COULD COME FORWARD AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. STILL COREY FURMAN, 103 NORTH SIXTH STREET, FERNANDINA BEACH.

SO FOR THIS, WE HAD IT'S OBVIOUSLY A VERY ARDUOUS TASK TO TRY OUR BEST TO COMPLIMENT THE HOUSE WHILE ALSO DIFFERENTIATING THE OLD FROM THE NEW, AND WE SAW IN CHAPTER EIGHT, HISTORIC DISTRICT OF THE AMELIA RIVER WATERFRONT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AREA, STATES THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OVERLAY MUST BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE EXISTING CHARACTER OF THE LANDMARK OR THE DISTRICT COMPATIBLE DESIGN, MEANING ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION THAT WILL FIT HARMONIOUSLY INTO THE DISTRICT OR THE LANDMARK SITE.

SO WITH THAT BEING STATED, WE LOOKED UP WITH THE NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

[00:55:05]

OURS AND THE FAIRBANKS HOUSE.

SO THE FOLLOWING ELEMENTS ARE WHAT THE NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION DEFINE ITALIANATE AS BEING ONE.

IT HAS A CUPOLA TWO OVERHANGING EAVES WITH SUBSTANTIAL BRACKETS TALL, NARROW WINDOWS, AND WHILE MANY ITALIANATE WINDOWS WILL BE ROUNDED RATHER THAN FLAT AT THE TOP, RECTANGULAR WINDOWS WILL USUALLY BE TOPPED WITH SOME TYPE OF AN ORNAMENTAL PEDIMENT ONE STORY PORCHES WITH SHAVED CORNERS, AND THE USE OF CAST IRON SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS AND WE SAY, WELL, HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS ADDITION? BECAUSE THE ADDITION IS, AS YOU STATED EARLIER, IS CLOSE TO SIXTH STREET.

SO PEOPLE WILL BE SEEING THIS UP CLOSE.

SO HOW DO WE MAINTAIN AN ITALIANATE STYLE HOME WHILE DIFFERENTIATING ENOUGH SO THAT THE NEW CONSTRUCTION OR CONSTRUCTION ARE SEEN AS DIFFERENT? SO HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT? SO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS THE FIRST THING WAS TO PROVIDE A CONNECTING ELEMENT.

SO NOW THIS CONNECTING ELEMENT IS IN THE FORM OF A BREEZEWAY.

THIS BREEZEWAY SITS HERE.

NOW THIS BREEZEWAY IS SITTING BACK FROM THIS FRONT AND THIS FRONT.

THIS THE EXISTING HOME AND THIS FRONT ARE PARALLEL WITH EACH OTHER.

THIS EXISTING ELEMENT IS IN THE FORM OF A BREEZEWAY, JUST A NARROW HALLWAY THAT IS CONNECTING TO THE OLD HOUSE WHERE AN EXISTING WINDOW IS.

SO WE WANT TO HAVE AS LITTLE EFFECT ON THE EXISTING HOUSE AS POSSIBLE.

SO WE ATTACH THIS CONNECTING ELEMENT HERE TO HERE, AND THEN WE CAN COME OFF FROM THE CONNECTING ELEMENT WITH THE REST OF THE HOUSE.

NOW THE CONNECTING ELEMENT WE WANT TO BE A DIFFERENT COLOR.

NOW WE WANT THIS SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND THIS SIDE TO BE THE SAME COLOR, TRIM, MULLIONS AND SIDING ALL THE SAME.

HOWEVER, WE WANT THIS CONNECTING ELEMENT TO BE THE MULLION COLOR WHICH IS A DARK DARK GREEN.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE COLORED PICTURES OF THE HOUSE, I'VE GOT SOME IN THERE FOR YOU TO SEE, BUT SO WE WERE GOING TO PAINT ALL OF THIS, THAT DARK GREEN SO THAT WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS YOU'LL SEE THIS NICE CREAM COLOR OVER HERE, A DARK GREEN THAT ACTUALLY YOUR EYES WILL PROBABLY JUST DART RIGHT ACROSS, AND THEN THIS CREAM BACK OVER HERE. SO THE CONNECTING ELEMENT IS CREATED TO HELP WITH THAT DIFFERENTIATION.

ALSO AS A DIFFERENTIATING ELEMENT, THE SIDING UH THE EXISTING SIDING OF FIVE INCHES, WE WANTED TO USE A SIX INCH DUTCH SIDING AND THE COLOR.

SO TO ALSO HAVE THAT COMPLEMENTARY STATE, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE COLOR OF THE SIDING TO BE THE SAME, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE CONNECTING ELEMENT.

NOW I DO WANT TO SAY THIS VERY QUICKLY.

I'M THE ONE THAT WENT OUT AND MEASURED THE FIVE INCHES OF THE EXISTING.

I MAY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE.

THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A SIX INCH.

IF I DID MAKE A MISTAKE.

I WANT TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR.

WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TO GO THE NEXT SIZE UP IN A COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE SIDING, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE.

IF WE HAVE TO GO TO EIGHT, WE'LL GO TO EIGHT.

IF THERE'S A SEVEN, WE'LL GO TO SEVEN, SIX AND A HALF, SIX, BUT WHATEVER, WITHOUT US HAVING TO SPECIFICALLY PLANK THESE JUST FOR THE HOUSE I JUST DON'T WANT TO PUT THAT MUCH INTO IT. MONEY'S NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD, BUT IT'S REASONABLY CLOSE TO OXYGEN, SO WE WANT TO FIND THE NEXT COMMERCIALLY SIZED AVAILABLE PLANK.

SO THE CORNERS.

SO TO PROVIDE FOR THE COMPATIBILITY AND STYLE, THE TRIM CORNERS WILL BE THE SAME AS THE EXISTING HOUSE.

YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THE PHOTO.

I NUMBERED THE PHOTOS NINE AND TEN CONNECTING THE SIDING TO THE BRICK FOUNDATION ALSO.

SO WILL BE THE SAME AS THE EXISTING HOUSE, BECAUSE I KNOW THOSE WERE TWO QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP IN THE LAST MEETING.

YOU WERE CURIOUS WHAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE, WHAT WERE THE CORNERS GOING TO BE, AND HOW WILL WE TRANSITION FROM THE BRICK FOUNDATION TO THE SIDINGS? THE BRACKETS, I KNOW THAT WAS A DISCUSSION FROM LAST TIME.

SO THE BRACKETS, WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH THE BRACKETS IS TO PROVIDE THE CURRENT STYLE, ITALIANATE STYLE DOES REQUIRE BRACKETS. SO WE WANT TO KEEP THE BRACKETS.

HOWEVER, WE WANT THE BRACKETS TO BE THE SAME AS WHAT'S ON THE FIRST LEVEL OF THE HOUSE.

THE BRACKETS THAT ARE ON THE SECOND FLOOR AND THE THIRD FLOOR ARE LARGER AND MORE ORNATE.

[01:00:01]

SO NOW FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE THIS MIGHT LOOK LIKE A NEW ADDITION, BUT WHEN YOU COME AROUND THE ALACHUA SIDE OF THE HOME, ON THE BACK SIDE WHERE THE KITCHEN IS, YOU CAN SEE THESE BRACKETS AND THEY'RE THERE.

SO WE WANT TO CONTINUE THOSE BRACKETS AS WELL.

DEFINING THE HOUSE AS ITALIANATE WE WANTED A CUPOLA ON THE HOUSE AGAIN JUST TO DEFINE IT AS AN ITALIANATE ADDITION.

I'M NOT GOING TO DIE ON THAT HILL.

THAT'S FINE IF WE'RE GOING TO SCRAP THE CUPOLA.

OKAY, BUT WE WANTED A CUPOLA THAT WAS GOING TO BE SMALLER IN SCALE, SO THAT IT DID NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE CURRENT LARGE TOWER CUPOLA, AND ALSO NOT TO HAVE ANY WINDOWS IN THAT SMALLER CUPOLA AS A DIFFERENTIATING ELEMENT AS WELL.

AND THEN FOR THE WINDOWS WE AS A DIFFERENTIATING ELEMENT, WE WANTED TO HAVE THE THESE WINDOWS WOULD BE SQUARED NOW, THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE, WE HAVE AN UPDATED PHOTOGRAPH IN THE PLANS THAT WE SENT OVER HOPEFULLY YOU GUYS HAVE THOSE THAT SHOW INSTEAD OF SUCH A SIGNIFICANT ARCH HERE THAT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE WE'RE COPYING THIS.

IT'S ACTUALLY ONE THAT IS MORE OF HAS AN APPEARANCE OF JUST SIMPLY A PEDIMENT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING. YOU SEE THAT TOO? PERFECT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE SO THE AND THEN IN SOME OF THE PICTURES THAT YOU SEE THERE, PICTURE NUMBER ONE AND TWO AND THREE, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING, THERE ARE JUST EXAMPLES FROM THE ITALIANATE STYLE WHERE YOU SEE A SQUARED OFF WINDOW WITH AN ARCH OVER TOP OF IT.

SO THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS TOO UNUSUAL AND THEN WHEN YOU COME DOWN A LITTLE FURTHER AND YOU START GETTING INTO THE PHOTOGRAPHS 12, UH 13 AND 14, THOSE ARE ACTUALLY PHOTOGRAPHS OF BUILDINGS HERE IN TOWN.

THE COURTHOUSE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, ACTUALLY HAS SQUARED WINDOWS WITH AN ARCH FRAME OVER THE TOP OF IT AS DOES SOME WINDOWS OVER AT [INAUDIBLE].

ALSO HAVE THAT AS WELL, AND THE TOWN LIBRARY ALSO HAS ARCHES OVER SQUARED WINDOWS, AND I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF THIS, BUT THE PALACE SALOON DOES TOO.

SO WE JUST WANTED TO SHOW THAT.

SO REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS WE REALLY WANT TO TRY TO BALANCE OUT THE ITALIANATE STYLE AND HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS COMPATIBLE, AND IN DOING SO, THE THINGS WE WANTED TO BE COMPATIBLE ARE THE BRACKETS, THE CUPOLA, THE TALL NARROW WINDOWS AND THE TRIM CORNERS WITH THE CONNECTING BRICK ELEMENTS THE ROOF SHINGLES.

WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE THAT JUST SIMPLY BE THE SAME AS A COMPARABLE MATERIAL, THE DIFFERENTIATING ELEMENTS THAT WE WANTED, WE'RE GOING TO BE THE BREEZEWAY SIDING AND TRIM OF A DIFFERENT COLOR, THE WINDOWS THAT ARE FLAT TOP WINDOWS WITH ARCH PEDIMENTS AND SMALLER, LESS SIGNIFICANT CUPOLA WITH NO WINDOWS AND A DIFFERENT SIZE SIDING.

SO IN THAT WE HAVE THE, THE ELEMENTS THAT SHOW THE SAME STYLE, BUT THEN ALSO DIFFERENTIATION, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THIS IS OBVIOUSLY AN ADDITION BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE TOO THAT THIS IS ALSO REFERRED TO AS THE HALF HOUSE SO TO PUT AN ADDITION ON THIS MEANS WE'VE GOT TO REALLY MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS ADDITION DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THE CHARACTER OF WHAT DEFINES THIS HOUSE AS BEING SO UNIQUE, AND THAT WAS PART OF THE REASON WE WANTED THAT CONNECTING ELEMENT TO BE A DIFFERENT COLOR WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WASN'T MENTIONED LAST TIME, AND I'M SORRY THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT TO YOUR ATTENTION, BUT THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WANTED TO WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT TO ACCOMMODATE THE DIFFERENTIATION AND RESPECT FOR THE EXISTING IMPORTANT HISTORICAL STRUCTURE.

BOARD MEMBERS, QUESTIONS? COREY, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU.

YOU MENTIONED THE DIFFERENT SIZE AND LESS ORNATE STYLE OF THE BRACKETS ON THE FIRST FLOOR.

I DON'T SEE THAT CALLED OUT IN THE PLANS ANYWHERE.

I DON'T SEE ANY DETAILS FOR THE BRACKETS.

HOW WILL THEY KNOW WHAT THOSE BRACKETS ARE TO BE, THE SIZE AND SCALE, ETC.? CAN WE SCROLL DOWN TO PICTURE NUMBER? I'M LOOKING AT THE PLANS FOR THE BUILDER.

SURE. WELL, WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO IS HE'S GOING TO COPY THE EXISTING BRACKETS ON THE HOUSE.

WE HAVE SOME EXISTING BRACKETS UNDER THE PORCH, AND HE'S JUST GOING TO USE THOSE AS TO COPY GO TO THE,

[01:05:03]

THERE YOU GO. THAT'S OUR BABY.

SO THIS IS A PRETTY NICE PHOTO IN THAT IT SHOWS HERE.

THIS IS THE FIRST FLOOR BRACKETS.

THEN THEY'RE JUST VERY PLAIN.

THERE'S NOT MUCH TO THEM AND THEY'RE SMALLER.

THESE BRACKETS UP HERE ARE LARGER AND THEY HAVE AN ORNATE PIECE ON THE END, AND SO WE WERE GOING TO COPY THOSE FIRST FLOOR BRACKETS.

EXACTLY I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING EXACTLY.

I'M JUST SAYING LOOKING AT THIS PLAN, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME TOP AND BOTTOM.

SO THERE'S REALLY NOTHING CALLED OUT THERE, AND THEN ALSO I LIKE WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH THE EYEBROW ABOVE THE WINDOWS RATHER THAN THE MORE THE LARGE EXTRUDED TRIM THAT YOU HAD BUT THERE'S NO CALL OUT AGAIN FOR THE SO THAT'S JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A MISTAKE TO BE MADE IN THE FIELD.

SO THEY COULD BE PUTTING ANYTHING UP.

IF IT'S NOT IN THE PLAN, AND YOU KNOW, THEN YOU COULD BE DINGED ON THAT.

SO YOU KNOW THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WOULD IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THERE WAS AN ACTUAL DIMENSION DETAIL FOR SURE.

WELL I WAS SUBMITTING MY--EXCUSE ME, MR. FUHRMAN. GO RIGHT AHEAD.

I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO BE CALLING OUT SOME DETAIL IN THE APPROVAL.

THAT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BECAUSE I'M HEARING MURMURS HERE, DOWN HERE THAT.

YES, YOU'RE RIGHT.

THANK YOU. MISTER FUHRMAN. I APPRECIATE THAT INTERRUPTION.

OTHER QUESTIONS? MISS KOSACK YEAH, I KNOW YOU GOT NOTES.

YEAH. THE OTHER ONE WAS YOU TALKED ABOUT A SIX INCH DUTCH LAP ON THE ONE STORY ADDITION.

WHAT ARE YOU PROPOSING ON THE HYPHEN? IS THAT MATCHING THE EXISTING HOUSE, OR IS THERE ANOTHER SIDING? I'M A PHARMACIST AND BUSINESSMAN BY TRADE.

WHAT IS A HYPHEN? THE CONNECTING ELEMENT.

OH, THE SAME THAT WOULD BE THE DUTCH LAP ALSO.

YES. OKAY. BECAUSE ALSO SAME SIZE DRAWING.

IT'S NOT SHOWN AS THAT.

OKAY. GOOD QUESTION THE CUPOLA IS STILL IT'S STILL ORNAMENTAL, RIGHT.

IT DOESN'T IT, AND I MAY HAVE MISSED IT FROM THE PLAN, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A DOUBLE HEIGHT CEILING ON THE INTERIOR OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

NO, WE WANTED THAT, BUT IT JUST WASN'T GOING TO WORK.

SO YEAH, WE WERE GOING TO PUT WINDOWS IN IT.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LOVELY, BUT UH, NOT AND STILL HAVE PRIVACY IN THE BATHROOM.

SO. ALWAYS IMPORTANT.

YEAH. TIM.

SO I THINK, WAS IT YOUR THE BUILDER, WAS HE THE ONE HERE AT THE PREVIOUS ONE? YES. BECAUSE I HAD CALLED OUT TO HIM A COUPLE THINGS THAT I FELT NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED, OR AT LEAST CLARIFIED AND I NOTICED IN THESE DRAWINGS THAT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN.

FOR EXAMPLE, I SEE YOUR SOFFIT DETAIL IN YOUR FASCIA DETAIL.

DOES NOT REFLECT WHAT YOUR ELEVATIONS SHOW.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, IT CALLS OUT VINYL SOFFITS I DON'T THINK IF YOU'RE TRYING TO.

YEAH, THERE'S NO CORNICE TRIM CALLED OUT ON THE WALL SECTION, AND THE WALL SECTION ALSO CALLS FOR STUCCO SIDING.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT THEY REALLY NEED TO BE TIGHTENED UP ON YOUR DRAWINGS BECAUSE THEY CAN LEAD TO MISTAKES IN THE FIELD AND YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE HAPPY IF YOU GOT STUCCO SIDING.

NO, BECAUSE SOMEONE READ THE WALL SECTION INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE ELEVATIONS.

YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE HAPPY WITH VINYL SOFFITS EITHER.

WE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T BE HAPPY WITH VINYL SOFFITS OR STUCCO SIDING, BUT THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE DRAWINGS.

SO WHEN WE SAY YES TO SOMETHING, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY YES TO ALL OF IT AND NOT JUST ONE PICTURE THAT'S IN THE FULL SET.

ABSOLUTELY. IT WOULD.

IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT IN YOUR APPROVAL, IF YOU DECIDE TO APPROVE, THAT THOSE STATEMENTS COULD BE MADE SO THAT I COULD MAKE SURE TO HAVE THE CORRECTION DONE? AND HERE'S THE ONLY REASON I ASK MY THE REASON MY WIFE'S NOT HERE.

SHE HAD CHEMOTHERAPY TODAY, AND SHE DOES HAVE A TRAPPED LUNG, AND SO, MUCH LIKE [INAUDIBLE] HOME, WE'RE ADDING THIS ADDITION SO THAT SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO GO UP AND DOWN THE STAIRS TO GO. ABOUT EVERY DAY, AND SO TO PUT IT OFF ANOTHER MONTH I'M JUST GOING TO TRY TO GET YOU THERE TONIGHT THE THE DISTINCTION, THOUGH, IS THAT MR. POZZETTA IS MAKING A PROFESSIONAL ASSESSMENT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO END UP IN TROUBLE IF YOU TRY TO BUILD FROM THESE DRAWINGS OKAY AND WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO COME BACK WE DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE TO MAKE CORRECTIONS.

SURE. SO YOU MAY GET A FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL LIST OF REQUIREMENTS FROM US TONIGHT.

AS LONG AS YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THAT'S FINE.

AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT DEVIATING TOO MUCH FROM THE PLAN THAT THE STAFF HAS THE ABILITY TO.

THAT'S GREAT, I APPROVE.

YEAH, YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK HERE SO WE CAN MAKE STAFF APPROVE.

[01:10:02]

OKAY, THAT'S A STAFF REVIEW, WHICH YOU'RE GOING TO WANT THESE DRAWINGS FIXED ANYWAY.

YEAH, AND NOW THE STAFF IS MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE COMPLYING WITH WHAT OUR REQUIREMENTS ARE.

ABSOLUTELY, AND THEN I'LL JUST SIMPLY SEND THAT REQUIREMENT TO THE ARCHITECT AND THEN HE'LL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS HE NEEDS TO CHANGE.

THANK YOU. VINYL, NOT GOOD.

NO. OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? CURIOSITY QUESTION, MR. FUHRMAN? YES, MA'AM. THIS HOME WAS DESIGNED BY MR. SCHUYLER, AND THIS FAMILY LIVED IN IT OVER GENERATIONS.

SO THAT LEADS ME TO ASK.

WELL, IT'S PROBABLY STILL A STUPID QUESTION, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK.

SORRY. DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE PLANS WERE FOR THE REST OF THE HALF HOUSE? WE HAVE LOOKED FOR THOSE PLANS, AND WE DON'T KNOW.

YOU MEAN THE ORIGINAL PLANS AS THEY EXIST? WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND THEM.

WE HAVE LOOKED AND LOOKED.

THAT'S TOO BAD, AND YEAH, WE SPOKE WITH MR. DAVIS. HALF HOUSE IS PRETTY DESCRIPTIVE OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, AND I'D LOVE TO HAVE SEEN WHAT US AS WELL HAD IN HIS MIND.

WE WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE HAVE FOUND THOSE PLANS AND WORKED WITH THAT.

HOWEVER, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT TO ADD SOMETHING ON TO THIS HOUSE THAT WAS ACTUALLY INTENDED TO BE PART OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.

THERE'S THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE, BUT THE ONLY THING WE CAN REALLY DO IS SIMPLY LOOK AT THE FAIRBANKS AND MAKE AN ASSUMPTION BASED ON THAT OF WHAT WE THINK THE NORTH WING WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE, BUT WE STILL DON'T REALLY KNOW FOR SURE.

OKAY, YEAH, BUT IT DEFINITELY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A MIRROR IMAGE THAT REALLY GOES AGAINST THE ITALIANATE STYLE, AND IT GOES AGAINST THE FAIRBANKS AS WELL.

SO BUT AGAIN, WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

THANK YOU. YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 0099? THANK YOU. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE ON TO BOARD DISCUSSION.

BOARD MEMBERS, I THINK I HEARD CONSENSUS THERE, BUT THERE'S A LONG LIST OF REQUIREMENTS.

I THINK THAT WE WANT TO CALL OUT AND HAVE THEM SUBJECT TO STAFF REVIEW.

TIM, THAT'S GREAT.

DOES THAT WORK FOR EVERYBODY? YEAH. I MEAN, DOES THAT MEAN SOMEBODY HAS TO NOW DO A DETAILED PLAN REVIEW TO GET EVERYTHING IN THERE? YES. EFFECTIVELY IT DOES BUT CAN WE CALL IT WE CAN CALL IT THOSE ELEMENTS IN OUR APPROVAL, CAN'T WE.

TOO MUCH. WELL ONE OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS WE HAD ASKED FOR PREVIOUSLY WAS, THEY'VE DEVELOPED THIS SKIRT BOARD TREATMENT USING BRICK.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S WHAT IT'S CALLED OUT TO KIND OF DISGUISE THE FACT THAT THE FLOOR OF THE ADDITION IS LOWER THAN THE FLOOR OF THE MAIN HOUSE, WHICH IS FINE. ARCHITECTURALLY, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT AT ALL.

IT'S JUST IT'S NOT BACKED UP BY ANY DETAILS ON THE DRAWINGS, AND THAT I HAD MENTIONED IT LAST MONTH THAT I FELT THAT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL, BECAUSE IT BRINGS A LOT TO THE INTENT OF THE DESIGN, BUT TO JUST KIND OF LEAVE IT AT THE WHIMS OF WHOEVER HAPPENS TO BE PUT IN CHARGE OF INSTALLING IT IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.

IT NEEDS TO ACTUALLY BE DETAILED AND CALLED OUT ON THE DRAWINGS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S SO FRUSTRATING FOR US, COREY, BECAUSE WE WENT THROUGH SO MUCH OF THIS WHEN THE BUILDER DRAFTSMAN ARCHITECT WAS HERE AND GAVE HIM VERY SPECIFIC THINGS TO HELP US HELP YOU.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WE DO, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, AND WE HAVE LIKE THIS MIX UP AGAIN THINGS AREN'T CONGRUENT FROM THE PICTURES AND HIS DRAWINGS TO WHAT THE CALL OUTS ARE, AND, I MEAN, YOU CAN GET INTO A HEAP OF TROUBLE, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD IT QUICKLY IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH.

IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH. WE'RE IN BOARD DISCUSSION.

GO AHEAD, MR. POYNTER. I WAS JUST SAYING, THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF DETAIL THAT HAS TO GET PUT ON THIS, AND BUT IF WE'RE OKAY WITH THE HOW BUILDING WORKS.

I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT TO GET THE FOOTERS IN, YOU'VE GOT TO GET I MEAN, YOU COULD START AS AN EXAMPLE, YOU COULD START MOVING ON THE BASIC STRUCTURE BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S ALMOST FINAL COA BEFORE THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

[INAUDIBLE] DEPARTMENT [INAUDIBLE].

YEAH, AND I MY INSTINCTS ARE THAT WE DON'T HAVE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS HERE.

NO WE DON'T. SO, KELLY, WOULD YOU MIND BRINGING UP.

I JUST WANT TO BECAUSE IT MIGHT DEMONSTRATE SOME OF THIS.

IT WAS I THINK IT WAS PHOTOGRAPH NUMBER NINE, AND I BELIEVE IT'S OF THE EXISTING HOME, AND IT ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATES QUITE A FEW OF THESE THINGS THAT

[01:15:06]

IT REALLY SHOWS SOME OF THE REALLY NICE DETAIL IN THE ORIGINAL [INAUDIBLE], A PROPER WALL SECTION.

IT'S WHAT'S MISSING, RIGHT? AN ACCURATE PROPER WALL SECTION TO SCALE WITH RADIUSES.

RIGHT? EXACTLY. YOUR WALL SECTION WILL BE TYPICAL THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE ADDITION.

RIGHT? SO YEAH, EVEN THE DROP SIDING ISN'T DEPICTED ON THAT.

THESE RAFTERS HAVE COME OUT IN FRONT OF THE FASCIA BOARD ON THEM.

RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT.

SO I WANT, I WANT FOR EXAMPLE, THE CORNER WHERE WE HAVE THE CORNER BOARDS.

THERE'S ACTUALLY THREE PIECES OF TRIM THERE.

IT'S NOT TWO PIECES OF TRIM THAT ARE BUTTED TOGETHER.

THERE'S A THIRD BIT RIGHT IN THE IN THE CORNER.

THAT'S A REALLY NICE DETAIL, WHICH IF IT'S NOT CALLED OUT ON THE DRAWINGS, IS NOT GOING TO GET DONE THAT WELL AND ON THE DRAWING THERE'S A CALL, IT SAYS CORNER BOARD WILL MATCH, BUT THEN THERE'S NO CORNER BOARD IN THE DRAWING.

IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT.

YEAH, I'M AFRAID THERE'S MORE HERE THAN WE CAN SIGN OFF ON, AND THEN THE CORNICE TRIM THAT THE BRACKETS SIT ON.

THAT LOOKS LIKE A TWO BY PIECE OF TRIM.

IF IT'S NOT CALLED OUT, SOMEBODY ORDERS ONE BY.

IT'S NOT GOING TO LOOK ANYTHING LIKE THAT WOULD WE LIKE TO MAKE A LIST? WELL, IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING WHERE THIS HOUSE WAS DISCUSSED ADMITTEDLY, IT'S JUST A BRIEF DESCRIPTION, BUT THERE'S A WHOLE CHUNK OF STUFF THAT IS DISCUSSED, LIKE SIDING, MATERIAL ARCHES, CUPOLA, THE SLAB AND FOUNDATION ROOF MATERIALS DO DAH DO DAH.

SO THEY'RE ALL IN THOSE MINUTES, AND WE ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO THE VIDEO FROM THAT MEETING SO THAT WE HAVE A SOURCE AND DON'T HAVE TO START THE LIST FROM SCRATCH.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE HELP MR. FUHRMAN TONIGHT WITH ARE WE SAYING THAT THERE WOULD BE APPROVAL ON THE CONDITION THAT ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED, I THINK WE'D BE ASKING MORE OF THE DIRECTOR THAN WOULD BE FAIR.

THERE'S A LEVEL OF SCALE IN TERMS OF ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL THAT WE'RE COMFORTABLE SEATING TO THE STAFF, BUT I THINK WE PASSED THAT POINT, AND I'LL JUST I'LL DO ONE OTHER EXAMPLE ON THE OBLIQUE DRAWING ELEVATION THAT WE HAVE.

THERE'S A FLOATING COLUMN AND THERE'S NO CONNECTING ELEMENT TO IT.

THIS COLUMN JUST RIGHT THERE.

YEAH. ZOOM IN.

I MEAN, SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE IN THE FRONT PORCH, THE BACK COLUMN AT THE FRONT PORCH.

GO DOWN SO THAT COLUMN TERMINATES INTO THIN AIR.

THE BACK ONE BEHIND IT THAT GOES UP.

GO TO THE TOP OF THAT COLUMN KELLY.

SEE, AND IT JUST TERMINATES INTO THIN AIR.

SO THESE ARE THE DETAILS THAT SO A BUILDER IS GOING TO SAY WHAT DO I DO TWO BY FOUR UP HERE.

IS IT AN EXPOSED BRACKET.

IS IT NOT A BRACKET. IS IT A CLOSED TRIANGLE.

YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE THERE. WELL THAT'S NOT IN THE PLAN [INAUDIBLE] HOUSE THEY PROBABLY DON'T DO ANYTHING.

I THINK TIM'S RIGHT.

THAT'S EXISTING HOUSE.

OKAY. CORRECT.

JUST WASN'T RENDERED RIGHT.

YEAH. YEAH, I CAN TRY TO MAKE A LIST.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A LIST. QUESTION IS DIRECTOR, I'D LIKE TO ENGAGE YOU HERE.

IS THAT WHAT.

WHAT LEVEL OF COMFORT DO YOU HAVE? MR. POZZETTA? MS. KOSACK AND MR. ESCULSA HAVE IDENTIFIED SOME VERY SPECIFIC CONSTRUCTION ELEMENTS THAT ARE LACKING IN THE DRAWINGS, AND I'M WONDERING HOW COMFORTABLE YOU ARE IF WE ASK FOR THOSE ELEMENTS TO BE IDENTIFIED AND DRAW AND LITERALLY DRAWN OUT, WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE APPROVING THAT? WOULD YOU RATHER THAT CAME BACK? IT WOULD NEED TO BE VERY DETAILED, EXACTLY WHICH ELEMENTS NEED TO BE SHIFTED, OR AT THE VERY LEAST I NEED YOU TO ARTICULATE WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IN.

I'M AFRAID THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN WE COULD DO IN THIS SETTING.

OR A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN WE SHOULD PUT ON YOU, AND MY CONCERN WITH THAT IS THAT THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT STRUCTURE, RIGHT? THAT IF WE MISS SOMETHING, THE EFFECT THAT HAS LONG TERM, AND I KNOW THAT MR. FUHRMAN WANTS TO DO THE VERY BEST FOR THIS STRUCTURE, AND HAVING DRAWINGS COMPLETED IN A WAY THAT WILL REALLY GIVE US THE ABILITY TO ENSURE THAT IT IS EXECUTED THE WAY THAT IT NEEDS TO BE HELPS GIVE THE BOARD COMFORT IN IT MOVING FORWARD, AND IT ALLOWS FOR MR. FUHRMAN TO GET EXACTLY WHAT HE'S AFTER IN THAT FINISHED DESIGN.

IT'S REALLY AN IMPORTANT HOUSE, WAY TOO IMPORTANT TO BE LEFT TO GUESSWORK AND THE POTENTIAL FOR CONTRACTOR

[01:20:07]

WE NEED TO ASSEMBLE A LIST OF DETAILS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE SPELLED OUT FOR US, AND WE CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER PRIVATELY, AND WE CAN'T, I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO SIT HERE AND TRY AND DO IT TONIGHT.

CAN WE SUBMIT EMAIL TO STAFF WHO COULD THEN SHARE IT WITH THE APPLICANT? WOULD THAT BE IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE PROCESS FOR US? DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU? YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY, THE BUILDER DIDN'T COME BACK WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE TOLD THEM TO COME BACK WITH LAST MONTH.

RIGHT. SO IT'S NOT JUST I MEAN, HE DIDN'T CHANGE IT TO EVERYBODY ELSE SUBMITS.

IT JUST NEEDS TO BE SOMEBODY THAT CAN TAKE THE SET OF PLANS AND GO BUILD THIS HOUSE WITHOUT ERROR AND WITHOUT QUESTION, WITHOUT A VINYL.

IS THIS A VINYL SOFFIT OR IS THIS NOT A VINYL SOFFIT? AND AND DON'T LOSE PERSPECTIVE THAT WE ARE MOVING FORWARD WITH SOME OF THE ELEMENTS.

I MEAN, LAST TIME WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THE WINDOWS.

I THINK THERE'S AGREEMENT THE WINDOWS ARE OKAY.

WE TALK ABOUT THE CUPOLA, THE NUMBER OF BRACKETS AND THAT BASICALLY STAYED THE SAME.

SO I FEEL THAT WE'RE WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT PART.

SO NOW WE'RE MORE INTO THE INTO THE DETAIL.

RIGHT, AND I THINK I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LACKING, BUT BUT THIS MEETING REALLY ACHIEVED UH, CLOSING SOME OF THOSE.

ALL RIGHT. SO [INAUDIBLE].

WHO'S GOING TO PROVIDE SOME OF THE DETAIL FOR STAFF TO PROVIDE TO THE APPLICANT? I CAN HELP.

JIM WILL HELP. I DON'T KNOW, MR. FUHRMAN, DO YOU HAVE ANYONE TO OFFER? TAMMI, DO YOU HAVE ANYONE TO OFFER? I DON'T THINK I WOULD HAVE MORE OR BETTER INPUT THAN JIM.

YEAH. OKAY.

SORRY, JIM. YEAH.

NOT THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE A FULL TIME JOB.

YEAH, EH, IT'S CHRISTMAS.

HE'S GOT TIME. [CHUCKLING] SORRY.

ALL RIGHT, SO CAN WE GET A MOTION? I THINK WHAT I HEARD IS, WERE WE GOING TO CONTINUE THIS ON? YES, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE THIS.

TIM'S GOING TO MOVE TO CONTINUE.

MOVE TO CONTINUE, AND I JUST NEED TO GET A SECOND FROM--TO WHICH MEETING NEEDS A DATE SPECIFIC.

THE NEXT MEETING. NEXT MEETING JANUARY 18TH.

ASSUMING THAT WE GET THEIR STUFF, WE CAN GET DRAWINGS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE KIND OF DETAIL THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO APPROVE IT FOR ALL THE ELEMENTS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT, AND I KNOW YOU GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT OF LEEWAY.

CAN WE ON SUBMITTING THE DIRECTOR'S BEEN VERY FLEXIBLE.

OKAY. SO FAR.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE IN THIS CASE SO LATE TONIGHT.

MR. FUHRMAN, SORRY ABOUT THAT, BUT THESE ARE DECISIONS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, AND WE JUST.

WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE.

VINYL SOFFITS.

PROBABLY. THAT WAS THE ONE OKAY.

WE HAVE A MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND.

TAMMI WAS A SECOND THERE WON'T BE ANY MORE BOARD DISCUSSION.

MISS SYLVIE, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL FOR CONTINUING.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, AND THAT'S FOR EVERYBODY WE'LL MOVE INTO BOARD BUSINESS.

[7.1 Jose Miranda, Miranda Architect - Update on Duryee Building/Marina Restaurant project]

IT'S INTERESTING, I SAY.

I KEEP SAYING BUILDING.

PEOPLE SAY, WHERE'S THAT? YEAH, I SAY THE MARINA AND THEY GO, OH, THE MARINA RESTAURANT, ANOTHER SCHUYLER BUILDING, BY THE WAY.

YES. LATE BREAKING NEWS.

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT I WAS GOING TO UPDATE YOU ON WAS THEY STARTED OBVIOUSLY, THE EXTERIOR SKIN PEELING OFF THAT.

YEAH, AND DISCOVERED THE BRICK UNDERNEATH IS NOT RESTORABLE.

IT HAS BEEN BUTCHERED.

IT HAS IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT.

SO WE WILL HAVE TO GO BACK.

WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK WITH IS A LIME BASED STUCCO FINISH TO AND MAKE IT SMOOTH OR SAND FINISH, SIMILAR TO THE PRODUCT THAT WAS USED ON THE TAVERN. THE TAVERN USED THE SAME SIMILAR PRODUCT, SO IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC BRICK AND THE HISTORIC TABBY IT'S A FORMULA THAT OUR CONSERVATION CONSULTANT HAS PROVIDED US SO THAT OVER.

WE'RE TAKING THE CONCRETE BASED STUCCO BUTTER JOB OFF AND THEN PUTTING THIS OVER THE BRICK.

SO THAT'S WHERE OUR KIND OF WHAT'S BEHIND THE CURTAINS, SO TO SPEAK, ALL THE SIDES.

ALL SIDES. SO IS THE BRICK JUST BALD AND CRACKED? YES. WHAT'S HAPPENED IS AS THEY'VE STARTED PEELING IT OFF IT'S ADHERED SO MUCH TO THE BRICK THAT IT'S TAKING CHUNKS OF THE BRICK OFF AND IT'S JUST A HODGEPODGE, AND THEN IN SOME CASES WHERE THEY INFILLED WITH BRICK, THEY USED PORTLAND CEMENT MORTAR, AND GETTING THAT OUT HAS BEEN WE SAID, HANG ON A SECOND.

[01:25:04]

SO WE HAD A CURTAIL SOME SOME OF THE SCOPE.

PROBABLY WHY IT WAS COVERED.

YES, SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT'S HAPPENED.

THE OTHER WRINKLE THAT HAS HAPPENED IS WE ARE GOING TO COME TO YOU FOR A REDESIGN ON THE ADDITION.

THE REASON BEING WE CANNOT GET NATURAL GAS TO THAT SITE THE CITY'S AGREEMENT WITH FPU PREVENTS NATURAL GAS FROM COMING DOWN CENTER STREET.

AS YOU KNOW, THAT SITE FOR THE MARINA RESTAURANT BUILDING IS LANDLOCKED.

WE ARE HEMMED IN BY THE RAILROAD TRACKS, WHICH WE CAN'T CROSS.

WE CAN'T COME FROM CENTER STREET.

THERE'S NO ALLEY TO COME BY.

THERE ARE NO ACCESS UTILITY EASEMENTS.

WE TRIED TO WORK OUT AN ARRANGEMENT TO COME FROM ALACHUA STREET FROM AN EASEMENT ON THAT PROPERTY, BUT THE PAY TO PLAY PRICE WAS NOT SOMETHING THE OWNER WANTED TO CONSIDER.

SO WE'RE HAVING TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE ADDITION IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE AN ABOVE GROUND LP GAS STORAGE TANK OF 1000 GALLONS.

THOSE THINGS ARE 3.5FT WIDE, 16FT LONG, AND THEY REQUIRE TEN FEET CLEARANCE TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE BUILDING.

SO IF YOU IMAGINE OUR ADDITION HAS TO BE CUT IN HALF.

SO MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME IS A REDESIGN.

SO NO PLACE TO BURY IT.

NO. SAME CLEARANCE REQUIREMENTS WHETHER IT'S BURIED OR ABOVE.

WE STILL THIS IS WE'RE PINCHED IN.

YEAH, AND THERE'S NO, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SITE AREA.

SO WE'RE HAVING TO REDUCE IF YOU TAKE.

YOU DON'T PUT A THOUSAND.

THAT'S HOW STUPID IT IS.

IF YOU USE A 100 GALLON TANK, TEN OF THEM, TEN OF THEM, AND YOU CAN LINE THEM UP, YOU CAN.

YOU CAN BE RIGHT ON THE PROPERTY LINE.

YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.

I KNOW THEY HAD THAT WITH MY HOUSE.

DOES THE PELICAN HAVE GAS? NO, NO. YES.

PROPANE. THEY HAVE PROPANE.

OH, THEY HAVE PROPANE. THEY HAVE PROPANE.

THAT'S CLOSER THAN TEN FEET TO THE [INAUDIBLE] LINE AND IT'S GREATER THAN 100 GALLONS I THINK SO, NO, NO.

YES. TECHNICALLY, THE FIRE MARSHAL COULD SHUT THEM DOWN.

YEAH. THEY ALSO REFILL THEIR PROPANE BY DRAGGING THE LINE OVER THE RAILROAD.

YES. SO DON'T TELL CSX THAT [CHUCKLING] THERE'S NO HAZARD HERE.

NO. DON'T LOOK.

SO ANYWAY, WE'RE HAVING TO REASSESS THE ADDITION, WHICH MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REASSESS THE INTERIOR AS WELL.

BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE STILL NEED A COMMERCIAL KITCHEN.

IT MAY BE THAT YOU REDUCE THE SEATING CAPACITY IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THE KITCHEN AND EVERYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO PROVIDE THERE.

SO JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU A HEADS UP THAT WE'RE HAVING TO CHOOSE A DIFFERENT PATH EVEN THOUGH IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME AND MORE MONEY, IT'S STILL, IN MY OPINION, LESS EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT WE WERE BEING ASKED TO PAY TO GAIN ACCESS.

SO, I MEAN, WE'RE KIND OF AND THIS IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR ALL THE CENTER STREET PROPERTIES THAT DON'T HAVE ANYBODY THAT CAN WORK WITH THEM ON A UTILITY EASEMENT TO GET GAS, BECAUSE, I MEAN, GAS IS, AS YOU KNOW, FROM RUNNING A RESTAURANT, YOU CAN'T DO IT ALL ELECTRIC.

IT WOULD COST A FORTUNE.

EXACTLY. IT'S JUST NOT WORTH GOING ON THAT PATH.

SO AND PROPANE IS A WHOLE LOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN NATURAL GAS.

YES, YES.

SO ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST ONE.

THAT'S THE UPDATE WE HAVE AS OF RIGHT NOW.

WE'LL KEEP YOU POSTED AS TO OUR PROGRESS ON WHAT WE'RE CALLING PHASE ONE, AND THEN PHASE TWO HAS BEEN DELAYED.

I KNOW YOU HAVE ALL WORKED HARD TO FIND EXPERTS IN THE FIELD, IN THE VARIOUS FIELDS FOR THE RESTORATION OF THIS.

YES. MASONRY STRUCTURE.

COULD YOU TELL ME WHO IT WAS THAT? HOW DID YOU COME TO THE DECISION THAT THE BRICK THAT YOU HAD HAD TO BE RECOVERED.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU GUYS JUST FIGURED OUT FOR YOURSELVES? YES. YEAH. YEAH.

AS AS HARVEY STARTED PEELING THIS OFF AND WE TOOK A LOOK AND SAID, OH MY GOODNESS SAKE, THAT.

YEAH, IT'S SUCH A BUTCHERY OF WHAT HAPPENED JUST TO COVER IT WITH THAT CRAPPY STUCCO THAT REMOVING IT HAS CAUSED THE DAMAGE AS MUCH AS THEY DID WHEN THEY APPLIED IT, BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE A MECHANICAL REMOVAL, RIGHT? YES. YEAH. YOU CAN'T.

IT'S ADHERED SO MUCH, AND THAT'S WHY NOW WE HAD TO COVER UP THOSE SINS WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GO BACK WITH THAT LINE BASE STUCCO.

SO THE BRICK AND THE TABBY WILL BREATHE NOW, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN BASICALLY WRAPPED IN SARAN WRAP FOR DECADES NOW.

I'VE BEEN WATCHING CLOSELY AND LATE IN THE DAY YOU CAN SEE THROUGH THE SCREEN, YES, THE WESTERN SUN AND THE OPENINGS ARE JUST ASTOUNDING. I KNOW WE HAVE THE ORIGINAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF WHAT THE BUILDING WHEN IT OPENED ONTO FRONT STREET.

YES. BEFORE THE TRACKS WERE THERE.

YES AND IT'S JUST A LOVELY, SYMMETRICAL, BEAUTIFUL STRUCTURE, I KNOW, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE STRUGGLING HARD TO KEEP THAT.

AT LEAST THE MAIN SHAPE AND THE ORIGINAL FACADE BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH.

I'M NOT PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESIZING OF THE ADDITION BECAUSE.

YEAH, YOU CAN'T SEE IT.

NO, YOU'RE RIGHT. I DON'T THINK ESTHETICALLY IT'S GOING TO HURT OUR HDC APPROVAL, ALTHOUGH OBVIOUSLY WE'LL RESUBMIT A REDESIGN, BUT IT'S MOSTLY GOING TO HURT.

[01:30:07]

THE DIRECTOR WILL ACCOMMODATE YOU AS BEST SHE CAN WITH THE APPLICATION PROCESS TO RESUBMIT BECAUSE WE KIND OF KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

YES, AND WE'RE OBVIOUSLY SUPPORTIVE AND JUST DON'T CALL OUT VINYL SOFFITS.

YEAH, THAT'S FATAL APPARENTLY.

WELL, I'LL I'LL RESERVE MY COMMENT ON THAT TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.

THANK YOU. WAS THERE ANY FURTHER ANY FOLLOW UP NOW? OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I KNOW MARIE HAS BEEN VERY FIRST OF ALL, DID I SAY IT RIGHT? IS IT MAURIE? MAURIE.

MAURIE, FROM AICVB THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

[7.2 Maurie Dugger with Amelia Island CVB will present materials for a potential mural project (permanent art installations) to coincide with the City's 2024 Bicentennial Celebration.]

PROBABLY MORE THAN YOU WANTED TO, AND I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT A VINYL SOFFIT IS.

I HOPE I NEVER HAVE ONE. LET'S JUST SAY THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE ONE.

IT SOUNDS. THAT SOUNDS KIND OF LIKE IT'S PAINFUL SO PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.

SORRY MAURIE DUGGER WITH THE AMELIA ISLAND CONVENTION AND VISITORS BUREAU.

I AM ALSO A FORMER RESIDENT OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL, OR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING I AM GOING TO PULL UP THIS QUICK.

PRESENTATION BECAUSE I REALIZED THAT I AM THE ONLY THING STANDING BETWEEN Y'ALL AND CHRISTMAS.

SO I AM JUST COMING TO YOU TO SOCIALIZE.

AN IDEA THAT WE HAD.

FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, THE AMELIA ISLAND CONVENTION AND VISITORS BUREAU HAS BEEN LOOKING FOR A WAY TO REALLY INVEST IN THE ARTS HERE ON THE ISLAND IN A WAY THAT WOULD NOT ONLY ALLOW US TO REALLY LEAN INTO THE QUALITY OF PLACE IN OUR COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO HAVE A TOURISM IMPACT, AND SO WHAT I AM HOPING THAT YOU ALL WILL ALLOW ME TO DO TODAY IS TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GHOST SIGNS AND ART ON PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND ALL KINDS OF FUN THINGS SO WE ARE WORKING WITH AN ORGANIZATION CALLED THE WALLDOGS.

THEY ARE THE OLDEST GROUP OF SIGNED PROFESSIONAL SIGN PAINTERS AND MURALIST THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES AND INTERNATIONALLY AND YEARS AGO, AT THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY WALLDOGS WERE SIGN PAINTERS THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL FORM OF ART ADVERTISEMENT. AS YOU ALL VERY WELL KNOW I AM JUST A NEW EXPERT ON THIS.

UM THESE THESE PAINTERS WERE USING THESE OUTDOOR ADVERTISEMENTS AND WALLS ART ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

THE COCA COLA SIGN, WHILE NOT WHILE NOT HISTORIC, IS THE EXAMPLE OF WHAT ONE OF THOSE GHOST SIGNS WOULD BE AND SO WHAT WE ARE, WHAT WE ARE HOPING TO DO IS ENGAGE WITH THE WALLDOGS PUBLIC ART FOUNDATION TO HAVE THEM COME IN AND WORKING WITH OUR COMMUNITY CREATE AN OUTDOOR ART MUSEUM AND A HISTORICAL ART GALLERY WHAT WE ARE HOPING TO DO IS HAVE THEM COME IN IN NOVEMBER OF 2024, IN CONJUNCTION WITH BOTH THE CITY AND THE COUNTY'S BICENTENNIAL WE HAVE BEEN ALSO WORKING WITH ARTS AND CULTURE NASSAU THE TDC AND THEN, OF COURSE, IT WILL EVENTUALLY GO TO THE BOCC FOR FINAL APPROVAL BUT WHAT I THINK IS SO IMPORTANT HERE IS THE ABILITY TO HAVE A PIECE OF THIS IN HISTORIC DOWNTOWN FERNANDINA AND WHY WE THINK THAT IS SO IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE OF THE STORY THAT WE HAVE TO TELL FROM OUR HISTORY THIS IS A THE WALLDOGS WERE DOWN IN HIGH SPRINGS, FLORIDA EARLIER THIS YEAR DOWN IN MARCH OR BACK IN MARCH AND HIGH SPRINGS HAD A VERY SIMILAR HISTORIC DISTRICT ORDINANCE IN WHICH THEY NEEDED TO HAVE THAT ALSO APPROVAL AND WHAT THESE ARE, ARE HISTORIC IN NATURE, OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE VOTED ON BY THE COMMUNITY.

THESE ARE DONE BY ARTISTS THIS IS THEIR JOB.

THIS IS HOW THEY GET PAID AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS WORKING WITH THE ARTISTS AND WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY AND THOSE WHO ARE ON THE SUBJECT COMMITTEE, SO TO SPEAK, IS IDENTIFYING THOSE PIECES OF OUR HISTORY THAT ARE WORTH CELEBRATING AND WORTH ACKNOWLEDGING, AND SO YOU'LL LOOK AT IT HERE, OBVIOUSLY, HIGH SPRINGS HAS THE CAVES THE FLORIDA COWBOYS THE THEY ALSO HAD THE TIMUCUAN INDIANS AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE SAVANNAH, FLORIDA RAILROAD THE BOOK YOU ALL ARE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS A BOOK THAT KEENE, NEW HAMPSHIRE, PUT TOGETHER AND KEENE IS

[01:35:10]

JONATHAN DANIELS IS ONE OF THE LEADING CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST AND ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO TO EDUCATE BLACK CHILDREN JEANNIE POWERS STARTED AN ORPHANAGE.

SO THERE'S WONDERFUL STORIES HERE THAT WE CAN TELL.

OUR PLAN IS TO HAVE OBVIOUSLY, FOLKS FROM THE CITY WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH KELLY.

WE'VE SPOKEN WITH TAMMI ABOUT HOW WE CAN DO THIS SO I FEEL LIKE ALL I'VE DONE FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS IS TALK ABOUT THIS, AND SO I'M EXCITED TO SORT OF SEE WHERE THIS GOES BUT WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS PROJECT, AND WHAT IS SO VITALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT IT IS PART OF THE COMMUNITY.

NOTHING IS EVER PUT ON A WALL THAT HAS NOT BEEN VOTED ON BY THE COMMUNITY AND APPROVED BY THE COMMUNITY, AND SO THE PLAN IS WE COME UP WITH A SUBJECTS, WE PUT IT OUT FOR A VOTE WITH THE COMMUNITY.

THE COMMUNITY COMES BACK TO US AND SAYS IF WE WANT TO DO THE SHRIMPING, HOW DO WE TELL THAT STORY IN AN AUTHENTIC AND INTERESTING WAY WITH AN ART? BACKGROUND. WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS IS THE MUSEUM OF HISTORY IS EXCITED ABOUT IT.

OBVIOUSLY THE CITY FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET IS IS VERY INTERESTED TO SEE WHERE THIS GOES AS IS FERNANDINA BEACH 200 AND THEN, OF COURSE NOT THAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THIS DISCUSSION, BUT THE WEST SIDE OF THE COUNTY ALSO HAS SOME OPPORTUNITY HERE WHAT I LOVE REALLY ABOUT THIS IS ENGAGING THE LOCAL ARTS COMMUNITY, ACKNOWLEDGING OUR HISTORY, AND MAKING SURE THAT WE DO IT IN THE RIGHT WAY WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO WORK WITH THE LOCAL HIGH SCHOOL ART STUDENTS, ENGAGING THEM.

THE ISLAND ART ASSOCIATION, WHICH WILL BE CELEBRATING THEIR 50TH THIS YEAR.

SO THERE'S A WAY TO INCLUDE THAT AS WELL.

JUST A QUICK OUR FESTIVAL TIMELINE THAT REALLY SHOULD SAY JANUARY OF 2020 ON THERE BUT WE'VE BEEN DOING THE RESEARCH, WE'VE BEEN WORKING, AND BY WE, I MEAN ME TALKING TO EVERYBODY ABOUT ORDINANCES, TALKING TO THE ATTORNEYS, THE DISCUSSIONS WITH ALL OF THE MUNICIPALITIES HERE IN NASSAU COUNTY.

WE'VE MET WITH ARTS AND CULTURE, NASSAU, AND THEN NOW YOU ALL ARE NEXT AND SO WHAT WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO IS WHILE I DO NOT HAVE AND I AM NOT COMFORTABLE.

LET ME REPHRASE THAT.

I HAVE A LIST OF POTENTIAL WALLS.

ALL OF THEM IN FERNANDINA I HAVE NOT SPOKEN WITH A BUILDING OWNER YET, WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT PREPARED TO TELL YOU ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC WALLS AND SO WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS OBVIOUSLY HAVE A PIECE OF THIS THAT IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ON SOME OF THESE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS OBVIOUSLY, NONE OF THIS WOULD BE ON A PRIVATE HOME OR RESIDENCE AND THEN THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES ON EIGHTH STREET THAT WOULD PROVIDE A GREAT WALL FOR SOME MURAL PROJECTS SO AS YOU SEE, THERE IS A LOT MORE TO DO HERE AND I HOPE THAT WE ARE ABLE TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK.

I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT AND I WOULD LOVE TO JUST OPEN IT UP AND LET YOU ALL ASK ALL OF THE QUESTIONS, AND I HOPE I HAVE AN ANSWER.

WELL, FIRST, I BECAME A 30 MINUTE YOUTUBE EXPERT ON THIS AND I GOT AS EXCITED AS YOU ARE.

SO I THINK IT'S A REALLY, REALLY GREAT THANK YOU.

SOMEBODY ELSE WATCHED THAT YOUTUBE VIDEO.

YEAH. I MEAN, I MEAN IT IS WIDER FASCINATING THAN I THOUGHT.

SO TO PUT US IN PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IF I READING YOUR PRESENTATION.

SO 8 TO 10 MURALS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ROUGHLY RIGHT GIVE OR TAKE.

YES IF NOT THE 8 TO 10 ALL INSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT WOULD BE 8 TO 10 INSIDE THE CITY OF FERNANDINA.

OKAY SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE PLAY TO THAT, AND THEN HOW IT WORKS IS THAT THE ARTIST PREPARE SOME SAMPLES, A COUPLE OF SAMPLES, AND THAT'S WHAT GETS VOTED BY THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT GETS VOTED, AND SO HOW THAT WORKS.

RIGHT. THANK YOU SO THE ARTIST PREPARED EXAMPLES OF, LET'S SAY IT'S A TIMUCUAN INDIAN AND THE ARTIST IS FROM THE MIDWEST AND, AND DOESN'T KNOW THAT THERE IS A FACIAL DIFFERENCE THERE.

[01:40:02]

SO FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.

DO YOU KNOW OUR COMMUNITY? I DO, YES, I SURE DO.

WOW. I HAVE A QUESTION I THOUGHT WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY.

THAT'S WHY SHE'S HERE. BECAUSE WE NEED [INAUDIBLE], I MEAN, HOW DOES THAT SQUARE.

SO IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND ACTUALLY, YOU'LL SEE, IT KIND OF HINTED AT HER TIMELINE THERE IN ORDER FOR THIS PROJECT TO PROCEED WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS PERMANENT ART THAT WOULD BE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY TEMPORARY ART WOULD FOLLOW A DIFFERENT PATH, BUT AS PERMANENT ART, IT WOULD REQUIRE A VARIANCE BEFORE THIS BOARD IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD. I THINK BEYOND THAT, THOUGH, JUST THE CODIFICATION AND THE VARIANCE IS WHAT PAINT DOES TO BRICKS.

I MEAN, WE JUST LEARNED TONIGHT THAT WE SAY DON'T PAINT BRICKS BECAUSE IT DAMAGES THE BRICKS.

SO IS IT A SPECIAL PAINT THAT THEY USE.

SO IT'S TWO THINGS.

ONE BEFORE SAL DEPARTED, HE AND I GOT CAUGHT IN A RAINSTORM WALKING AROUND LOOKING AT BRICKS, AND AGAIN, I LEARNED MORE ABOUT THINGS THAT I DIDN'T NEED TO KNOW THAN I.

ANYWAY, I EVEN HAVE A PICTURE, AND I USED TO.

I WAS GOING TO ACTUALLY PUT IT IN HERE WHERE IT'S RAINING ON US WHAT IS REALLY NEAT ABOUT THIS IS A BUILDING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PAINTED OR IS STUCCO.

YOU CAN PAINT RIGHT ON IT.

LIKE CAFE CARIBOU.

LIKE CAFE CARIBOU IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF AN AWESOME LOCATION.

HE WOULD JUST MOVE [INAUDIBLE].

I'M THROWING IT IN RIGHT NOW BUT WHAT I DON'T WANT IS FOR BUILDINGS LIKE THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN PAINTED, THAT ARE THE VIRGIN BRICK TO GET PAINTED ON, AND I HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT.

THAT IS NOT IT. WHAT I HOPE TO DO AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN THE PAST, AND THEY HAVE HAD THESE ISSUES, IS TO BE ABLE TO PUT THEM ON MURAL OR PANELS.

EXCUSE ME IN WHICH IF THEY NEEDED TO BE MOVED FOR RESTORATION NEEDS OR THE BUILDING OWNER SAID, I'M OUT.

I DON'T WANT THIS, BUT BUT IT'S STILL A GREAT PIECE OF ART THAT HAS LIFE LEFT TO IT.

SO IT'S REMOVABLE.

YES, IT IS REMOVABLE.

THOSE LINES, I GUESS.

THEN WE JUST TALK ABOUT AND THIS IS MAYBE GETTING DOWN THE ROAD, BUT THE ATTACHMENT PROCESS OF THAT AND THEN ALSO YOU GUYS I KNOW IT'S NOT VINYL.

YOU GUYS ARE UH, YOU GUYS ARE PAYING FOOTING THE BILL FOR ALL OF THIS.

THEN WHO OWNS IT AND WHO MAINTAINS IT.

SO ALSO AN EXCELLENT QUESTION SO INSIDE THE CITY OF FERNANDINA AS PART OF OUR PUBLIC ART PROGRAM AND TAMMI MAKE SURE I'M SAYING THIS RIGHT THE CITY OF FERNANDINA WOULD THEN OWN THE ART, THE ACTUAL PAINTED ART AND IT WOULD BE MAINTAINED BY A MAINTENANCE FUND THAT THE ARTISTS AND THE COMMUNITY INVESTS IN.

SO IN THE LAST 31 YEARS HOLD ON, HOLD ON, HOLD ON.

LET ME FINISH THIS. SO IN THE LAST 31 YEARS THAT THE WALLDOGS HAVE DONE THIS, THEY HAVE HAD TWO MURALS THAT HAD BEEN DAMAGED.

ONE WAS A TORNADO AND ONE THE BUILDING WAS DESTROYED AND SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAINTENANCE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TEN YEARS.

THE LIFE OF THE PAINT IS A IS A TEN YEAR LIFESPAN ANYTHING AFTER THAT CAN BE, UM REPAINTED OR TOUCHED UP OR WHATEVER BUT THERE IS A MAINTENANCE FUND THAT IS PART OF THIS AS PART OF THE ENTIRE FESTIVAL.

SO WHO'S CONTRIBUTING TO THE MAINTENANCE FUND? SO THE WAY IT WORKS IS THE ARTIST WHO DESIGNED THESE PIECES OF ART AUCTION THEM OFF, AND THERE IS THE ABILITY TO BID ON THEM, AND ALL OF THAT MONEY GOES TO THE MAINTENANCE FUND.

THE OTHER PIECE OF THAT IS IT WILL BE MAINTAINED.

THE CITY ALSO HAS A BUDGET FOR THAT.

SO WHAT CAN I SAY THAT RIGHT? NO. DIDN'T YOU HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE SAME TOWN WE'VE BEEN IN? HOLD ON, HOLD ON, HOLD ON.

WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO.

WE DO NOT HAVE A TRUST FUND SET UP.

SORRY, SORRY, THAT WAS I MISSPOKE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE TRUST FUND SET UP YET, BUT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT FOR SURE, BECAUSE WE DO SUCH A GOOD JOB OF MAINTAINING EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

I WANT TO MAKE A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT SO THE CITY WOULD MAINTAIN AS PUBLIC ART AND OWNERSHIP ART THAT IS ON PUBLIC PROPERTY, RIGHT? ART THAT IS ON A PRIVATE BUILDING WOULD BE ON THE OWNER OF THAT BUILDING TO MAINTAIN.

OKAY, AND SO AS PART OF THAT, WE WOULD MANAGE THAT FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS OR WHATEVER THE BUILDING AGREEMENT TIMELINE IS.

SO THAT WE WOULD ONLY MANAGE THE ART, WE WOULD NOT MANAGE THE REPAIRING A BRICK OR PAINTING OR ANY LIKE WE WOULD ONLY

[01:45:08]

SO REALLY THE CITY WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT IS PUBLIC, CORRECT? OKAY. YES. SO DO YOU ANTICIPATE DO YOU GUYS IDENTIFY ALL THE POTENTIAL LOCATIONS OR DO PEOPLE APPLY FOR IT? HOW DOES WHAT'S THAT PROCESS.

SO I, WALKING WITH SAL, HAVE IDENTIFIED A NUMBER OF LOCATIONS I HAVE AGAIN NOT YOU WOULD IDENTIFY THEM AND PUT THEM [INAUDIBLE].

WELL AND SO PART OF THAT IS THE TIMELINE ON THAT WAS SO THAT THE PROJECT LEADER WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE WALLS AND SEE IF THESE WERE USABLE WALLS OR THERE WERE OTHER OPTIONS OR WHATEVER THERE WE ARE ALSO OPEN TO BUSINESS OWNERS OR BUILDING OWNERS, EXCUSE ME.

COMING AND SAYING, HEY, I'D LOVE TO BE PART OF THIS WE HAVE IDENTIFIED ABOUT 30 WALLS.

TEN OF THOSE WERE NOT REALLY AN OPTION AND AGAIN, I HAVEN'T RELEASED THAT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO UNTIL I'VE SPOKEN WITH THE BUILDING OWNER.

SO IS IT WITHIN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY THAT THE GHOST SIGNS THAT WE DO HAVE COULD BE UPDATED DURING THIS PROCESS? SO MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE CITY PLANNERS OFFICE IS THAT IS NOT A PREFERRED AVENUE AND THAT'S PART OF THE HISTORIC NATURE OF MAIN STREET.

YEAH. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO MAIN STREET SHOULD DO IT, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL. THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TOUCHED.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LET THE OLD COCA-COLA SIGN IS THE COCA-COLA SIGN IS ONE.

THERE'S GROCERY SIGN OVER WHERE JOSE'S OFFICE IS THAT'S FADING RAPIDLY, AND LOSING THAT, I THINK, IS A SHAME. I THINK THEY CAN BE WITH THE PRESERVATION OF THE INTERIOR, WHATEVER THAT WHOLE THING IS.

YOU CAN PUT A PROPER SEALANT OVER THEM TO STOP THE DEGRADATION, BUT THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO GO BACK AND KIND OF LOOK AT IT AND TOUCH IT UP AND MAKE IT [INAUDIBLE]. OH, WOULD YOU GET JOHN TO DO THAT OVER THERE, PLEASE? IT'S LIKE THE OLD FLOWER SIGN ON LINDY'S BUILDING.

YOU COULD BARELY SEE THAT ANYMORE.

IT'S SO SAD. RIGHT.

SO WELL AND I EVEN ASKED ABOUT.

CAN WE IF WE FOUND THE APPROPRIATE PERSON, COULD WE RESTORE THAT? YEAH, AND NO.

SO THE FUND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE MAINTENANCE OF THIS PIECE ALONE.

RIGHT. SO THE CITY HAS OTHER ART THAT'S BEEN DONATED TO THE CITY.

THERE'S AN INVENTORY OUT THERE OF A FOUNTAIN AND DAVID YULEE AND THE HORSE TROUGH AND THAT STUFF THAT EVERY TIME IN MY ROLE AS MAIN STREET DIRECTOR, EVERY TIME I APPROACH THE CITY WITH ANY ISSUES AROUND THOSE THINGS, THE CITY'S ANSWER WAS NOT OUR JOB.

YEAH. SO IS THIS GOING TO BE ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE? YEAH? ON CITY PROPERTY IT WOULD BE.

YEAH. ON CITY PROPERTY SITS ON CITY PROPERTY.

SO ON CITY PROPERTY THERE, THERE WOULD BE THAT CONVERSATION, BUT OUR PLAN AND OUR SPONSORSHIP OF THIS FESTIVAL EVENT, OUR GIFT TO THE COMMUNITY, WOULD BE THE MAINTENANCE.

I LOVE THAT YOU HAVE THIS IDEA THAT YOU'RE SO COOL ABOUT IT, AND I JUST WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT ALL THE I'S ARE DOTTED AHEAD OF TIME. ABSOLUTELY ARE MADE AHEAD OF TIME THAT NEED TO BE MADE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS THAT BULL ON THE SIDEWALK? IT'S TEMPORARY ART.

IT'S TEMPORARY ART, AND SO A COUPLE OF YEARS.

SO THE HDC DOESN'T HAVE TO SEE ANYTHING LESS THAN A YEAR.

WE DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE.

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW. I THINK THAT'S WRONG.

I MEAN, THE BULLETS AT ALL, AND IT'S A LOT OF WALL.

WELL, ARLENE YOU WOULD YOU WOULD SEE ALL OF THIS BEFORE IT WAS EVER PUT ON THE WALL, AND THAT'S THE PIECE THAT I AM ABLE TO, AND THAT'S COOL. SO WHAT DO WE DO THEN ABOUT THOSE MURALS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT UP, I GUESS ILLEGALLY ON SOME BUILDINGS IN THE CITY NOW? SO THE EXCLUSION FOR WALL MURALS ONLY APPLIES TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

IT IS PERMISSIBLE THAT YOU CAN MURALS.

SO THE BEAUTY BAR IS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

YES. YES.

ON EIGHTH STREET MURAL? IT SURE DOES. SO WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT WE SEE THESE MURALS GO UP AND THEN EVERYBODY GOES, OH, HEY, I CAN DO ONE, AND AND IF THEY'RE IF THEY'RE BEING ALLOWED NOW, THEY WILL BE ALLOWED THEN, AND THEN WE HAVE A MISHMASH INSTEAD OF SOMETHING THAT'S HIGH QUALITY.

[01:50:09]

IT'S THE STUFF ALL AROUND IT THAT'S BOTHERSOME.

I THINK THE PROJECT SOUNDS AMAZING TOO.

MY CONCERN IS THE AGGRESSIVE TIMELINE AND THIS COMMUNITY, BECAUSE WHAT WE HEAR ALL THE TIME IS WE SHOULD BE INVOLVED.

HOW COME OUR PEOPLE AREN'T DOING IT? DID WE SEE THIS? DID THE HISTORIC DISTRICT APPROVE THIS? I MEAN I'M TRYING TO GET EVERYBODY.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IN THIS SHORT TIMELINE.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

WHICH IS WHY I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THIS SINCE JUNE, WHICH IS NOT LIKE, I GET IT.

I GET WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

I ABSOLUTELY GET IT. SAVE YOU.

SO, AND I ALSO AM WELL AWARE OF WHAT I'M WALKING INTO.

IT'S WORTH A SHOT I THIS IS NOT VINYL, BUT I GOT IT WHAT IS THE MATERIAL? IT'S GOING TO BE A CANVAS IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO A SEPARATE.

NO, IT'S A METAL PANEL.

OKAY. THAT'S ESPECIALLY CONSTRUCTED FOR MURALS AND OUTDOOR ADVERTISEMENTS.

SO AT THE END OF THE, SORRY.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, REALLY, IF YOU FOUND PRIVATE SPONSORS NOT INVOLVED IN THE CITY, ALL ALL YOU WOULD NEED FROM THE CITY WOULD BE THE VARIANCE, RIGHT? CORRECT. THAT WOULD BE THE BEST CASE SCENARIO.

RIGHT, AND I WOULD LIKE FOR YOUR SUPPORT GOING FORWARD SO THAT WHEN I DO GET SIDEWAYS WITH EVERYBODY I WOULD JUST LIKE SOMEBODY TO PULL THE KNIFE OUT.

HERE'S THE TRICKY PART. IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

LIKE WHAT WE DO WITH SO MANY.

THINGS. I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

I WANT A MURAL ON THE PORT BUILDING FOREVER, BUT AGAIN, IT'S A CASE BY CASE BASIS, SO WE CAN'T CARTE BLANCHE SAY WE APPROVE IT, AND THEN SOME HIDEOUS THING SHOWS UP ON THE HIRTH HOUSE OR, YOU KNOW.

RIGHT, AND THAT IS, AND BUT THERE BUT YOU ALSO AND I THINK WHERE IT'S INTERESTING WHERE IT'S DIFFERENT HERE IS THAT WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A STAKE IN MAKING SURE THIS IS, THIS IS PROFESSIONALLY AND WELL DONE BECAUSE EVENTUALLY WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THAT WE HAVE AN ARTS COMMUNITY HERE WHERE WE CAN DO THE ART PASSPORT AND EXPAND THAT OUT AND MAKE THAT A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND SEE ALL OF THESE THINGS.

WE HAVE ART, THE WHAT IS IT, SECOND SATURDAY WE HAVE THE ART WALK.

WE HAVE ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

WE HAVE AMAZING ARTISTS HERE.

LET'S CELEBRATE THAT.

THE [INAUDIBLE] WOULD BE VERY SPECIFIC TO THE VERY SPECIFIC, AND SO THE WAY, THE WAY THE BUILDING AGREEMENT, I'M GOING TO SPEAK VERY IN LOOSE TERMS ON THIS, THE WAY THE BUILDING AGREEMENT WOULD BE FOR THIS SPECIFIC PROJECT WITH THE BUILDING AND THE AMELIA ISLAND CONVENTION AND VISITORS BUREAU TO CREATE A PIECE OF ART FOR THIS EVENT AND MAINTAIN IT FOR TEN YEARS, AND THAT IS ALL THAT IT SAYS THAT WE AND THEN WE CARRY THE FESTIVAL INSURANCE, WE CARRY ALL OF THE CITY PERMITTING, WE DO ALL OF THAT.

SO ALL I WOULD NEED TEN YEARS.

YES, YES, AND WE WOULD MANAGE THAT PROJECT BECAUSE WHAT I, WHAT I REALLY THINK THIS IS GOING TO DO IS ALLOW US TO HAVE A VISUAL IMPACT AND BE ABLE TO CELEBRATE THE HISTORY THAT WE HAVE, GOOD AND BAD AND I THINK THAT BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE COMMUNITY INVOLVED IN THIS IS REALLY THE KEY TO THAT. I KNOW THAT YOU ALL HAVE SEEN OTHER ARTS PROJECTS COME AND GO AND WHAT I THINK IS DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS, IS THAT IT IS SO MUCH THAT PIECE OF IT WHERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE COMMUNITY CONSENSUS.

SO WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LOCAL ARTISTS, ARE YOU WHEN YOU HAVE A CALL FOR ARTISTS, IS THAT FOR LOCAL ARTISTS TO DO THE WORK? SO IT'S EVERYBODY.

ARE YOU AN ARTIST? HAVE YOU EVER HAD A PAINTBRUSH? OH YEAH. OH YEAH.

OKAY. THEN YOU'RE GOING TO GET ON THE WALL, FROILAN'S GOING TO GET ON THE WALL.

MIKE'S GONNA GET ON THE WALL. ARLENE I KNOW IS GOING TO GET ON THE WALL.

TIM IS GOING TO GET ON HIS WALL.

WHAT WE WANT IS FOR EVERYBODY WHO IS INTERESTED IN THE ARTS TO BE PART OF THIS.

SO. SO IF YOU'RE A VOLUNTEER.

SO IT IS DESIGNED AND IT IS IN AND IT IS THAT IT IS PUT UP ON DRAWN OUT COLOR BY NUMBERS.

YES, VERY MUCH THE SAME THING, AND SO IF YOU DO MESS UP THERE IS A, THERE'S A PROFESSIONAL ARTIST STANDING RIGHT BEHIND YOU MAKING SURE THAT'S NOT GOING TO DRY.

SO ANYWAY, YES WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE EVERYBODY INVOLVED.

ALL RIGHT. LAST QUESTION IS, PLEASE, WHO VETS THE WHO VETS THE DESIGNS, WHO VETS THE DESIGNS AND THEN WHO VETS THE MESSAGE.

SO THAT WILL BE A GROUP OF US FROM THE CONVENTION AND VISITORS BUREAU, MAIN STREET, FERNANDINA 200, THE MUSEUM OF HISTORY THE ISLAND ART ASSOCIATION.

ARTS AND CULTURE. NASSAU, AND I'M MISSING SOMEBODY BUT THERE IS A THERE IS A GROUP.

I'M SORRY I READ IT THE WAY I READ IT, AND THE HDC OR THE CITY.

[01:55:04]

SORRY BUT YES, I MEAN, WE LISTEN, WE ARE FIRMLY COMMITTED TO DOING THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND I AM JUST NOW THAT YOU'VE SAID THAT WITH THIS TIME FRAME, IT STARTED GIVING ME HEART PALPITATIONS, AND SO IT'LL BE FINE.

IT'S FINE, IT'S FINE. [CHUCKLING] EVERYTHING'S FINE.

EVERYTHING'S FINE. I HAVEN'T HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS.

YES, SO I APOLOGIZE, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO THE TIMELINE, PLEASE, AND CONFIRM LOCATIONS AND SEEK A VARIANCE IN THE JANUARY FEBRUARY TIME FRAME.

SO WE'RE APPROVING THE LOCATIONS BEFORE WE KNOW WHAT THE IMAGES ARE.

THAT'S CORRECT. CORRECT. YES, YES.

OKAY. WE ANNOUNCED A PROGRAM HOW DO WE GET THE IDEAS GENERATED FOR WHAT THESE MURALS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE, WHAT THE SUBJECTS ARE.

SO WE WILL THIS GROUP IS MEETING EARLY JANUARY TO GET THE SUBJECTS GOING.

WE WILL PUT OUT A CALL ON SOCIAL MEDIA DIGITALLY IN THE NEWS LEADER ALL OVER TOWN.

IF YOU HAVE AN IDEA FOR A MURAL, PLEASE SUBMIT IT HERE.

HERE'S WHAT'S HERE'S THE PLAN, HERE'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, HERE'S WHAT WE HOPE, AND THEN WE WILL GO THROUGH THOSE AND THE COMMUNITY VOTES ON THOSE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO MANAGE THAT COMMUNITY VOTE PROCESS.

SURVEY MONKEY I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR YET.

THERE WILL BE A VOTING THERE'LL BE A VOTING CAPACITY ON THAT.

I JUST DON'T KNOW EXACTLY.

WHAT IT IS. CAN YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW? BECAUSE YES, I MAY I FINISH, PLEASE? I'M SORRY.

THERE IS A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY OF VOTING TO NOT ACTUALLY BE THE CITIZENS, THE RESIDENTS OF OUR CITY, IF THIS PROCESS IS NOT MANAGED PROPERLY, AND WE HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING INTO OUR COMMUNITY TELLING US WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO, AND THEY'RE NOT THE TAXPAYERS AND RESIDENTS OF OUR COMMUNITY.

SO I'M ASKING YOU TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS TO HOW YOU MANAGE THIS PROCESS, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GET RUN OVER.

UNDERSTOOD. MAY I GO AHEAD? THANK YOU THE INTENT AND THE PLAN IS THAT FOR CITIZENS OF FERNANDINA BEACH WITH A 32034 AREA CODE OR THE ABILITY TO SAY WHERE THEY LIVE, AND WE CAN CONFIRM THAT IT'S IN THE CITY OR ON THE ISLAND THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE.

THEY WILL BE ALLOWED TO VOTE ON THIS, AND SAME WITH HILLIARD.

SAME WITH CALLAHAN.

WHAT I DON'T WANT IS FOR SOMEONE IN JACKSONVILLE VOTING ON THIS WHEN THEY DON'T LIVE HERE.

WHAT I DON'T WANT IS FOR SOMEONE IN YULEE VOTING ON YOU.

GOT IT? YES.

WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE. YES.

THAT'S GOOD LUCK WITH THAT PROCESS.

THANK YOU. I HAVE TO SAY, IT IS EXPLICITLY, EXPLICITLY EXPLAINED ON THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU PRESENTED SAYING THAT, THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A METHOD THAT LIVE IN HILLIARD. YOU WON'T BE VOTING FOR CALLAHAN.

SO I GUESS I DIDN'T SEE THAT DOCUMENT.

YOU HAVE TO WATCH YOUTUBE.

YEAH, MY SPARE TIME.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. DUGGER? YOU GET EVERYTHING YOU NEED.

COUNCIL? THAT LOOKS VERY COOL.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

SURE. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY WE'RE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT YOU.

OH, MY GOSH, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT, AND I AM, TRUST ME.

YOU. YOU'RE GOOD.

WE ARE GOOD AND THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTIONS.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH YOU ALL AND I'M GOING TO SCOOT OUT AND GO START MY CHRISTMAS.

MERRY CHRISTMAS. HERE YOU GO THE LAST BOARD BUSINESS ITEM WAS ONE I ADDED ABOUT THE CHURCH AT 519 NORTH 14TH STREET WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, TOO, THAT

[7.3 Discussion of Church located at 519 N 14th Street ]

IT'S IN DISREPAIR. THIS IS, BUT UPON FURTHER RESEARCH, IT IS NOT A HISTORIC STRUCTURE.

IT WAS BUILT 1954 THE CONGREGATIONS THAT HAVE USED THAT CHURCH ARE HISTORIC.

THE CHURCH ITSELF IS NOT BUT I'LL JUST PUT THAT ON YOUR RADAR.

THAT IS THAT'S AT THE CORNER OF FRANKLIN AND 14, WHICH IS ACROSS THE STREET FROM [INAUDIBLE].

YEAH. OH.

OH, WOW. OKAY. YEAH SOUTH.

NEVER ANYBODY THERE. [INAUDIBLE] THERE'S NEVER ANYONE THERE.

I'VE NEVER SEEN A CAR THERE.

THAT'S WHY THE CHURCH IS [INAUDIBLE].

YEAH. SO JUST PUT THAT ON YOUR RADAR.

WAS THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STAFF CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL?

[8. STAFF REPORT]

YEAH. OKAY.

107 ESTRADA.

[INAUDIBLE] PLACE. CASSIDY.

CHRIS, AND I BELIEVE THAT THE PROPERTY IS NOW CHANGED HANDS AND I BELIEVE THAT'S IT, EXCEPT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

[9. PUBLIC COMMENT]

[02:00:03]

OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS DO REQUIRE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS BECAUSE THEN HDC STAMP GETS PUT ON IT BEFORE IT GOES INTO THE PLAN REVIEW.

RIGHT NOW YOU GOT THAT DISCONNECT.

SO WE'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KNOW IT'S A LITTLE TOO LOOSE, AND YOU GUYS I THINK ARE STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE.

YOU TRUST SOME DESIGNERS TO DO THE RIGHT THING, BUT OTHERS WHO DON'T SHOW THE DETAILS, AND YOU SEE YOU EASILY GO OFF THE RAILS.

SO JUST SOMETHING TO JUST NOODLE ON NEXT YEAR.

ANY ADDITIONAL OBSTACLES FOR YOU TO GET YOUR PROJECT MOVING FORWARD [INAUDIBLE] NO, WE WELL, WHEN WE DO COMMERCIAL PROJECTS, WE COME IN FOR CONCEPTUAL WITH A VERY CONCEPTUAL DESIGN.

WHEN WE COME IN FOR FINAL, WE'RE GIVING YOU CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS BECAUSE YOU ASK US FOR THOSE KIND OF DETAILS.

ON RESIDENTIAL, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

LIKE WHEN WE DO AN ADDITION JUST LIKE WE DID BURGESS.

THAT WAS A CONCEPTUAL DESIGN.

WE HAVEN'T GIVEN YOU ALL THE CONSTRUCTION DETAILS, BUT WE WILL BASED ON WHAT YOU GET, AND YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU KNOW US AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DOT THE I'S AND CROSS THE T'S, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE YOU TO REVISIT THE APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS SO THAT YOU CAN TIGHTEN IT UP, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT ISN'T GOING TO BE ENFORCING HDC REGULATIONS.

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT.

SO THE ONLY WAY TO ENSURE IT IS, HEY, GET IT ON.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO REQUIRE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS THEN MAKE SURE.

EVERYTHING IS ON THERE BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS.

THINGS GET CHEAPED OUT AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE THE BAD GUYS FOR HAVING APPROVED THIS.

WHY DID YOU LAUGH? YES.

. NO. WE'RE THE ONES WITH THE AFTER THE FACT, YOU KNOW.

YEAH. EXACTLY RIGHT.

IT'S ALL AFTER THE FACT.

SO ANYWAY, SO SOMETHING ON YOUR WORK LIST FOR 2024 AND IT DOES.

YOU'RE RAISING THE QUESTION THAT ALL PUBLIC ADMINISTRATORS RUN INTO, WHICH IS IF WE'RE TREATING THE SAME CLIENTS DIFFERENTLY, WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM.

SO DOES THIS BOARD.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE ADDED TO THE.

YEAH, I THINK TONIGHT WAS A PERFECT CASE.

YEAH. OH MY GOODNESS.

YES. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WILL WE NEED TO GO TO CITY COMMISSION IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT CHANGE.

NO I DO, I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S REALLY CLEAR THAT IF WE DO REQUIRE CONSTRUCTION LEVEL DRAWINGS, OFTEN WHAT THAT CAN DO IS MEAN THAT YOU DO 100% PLANS.

THEY COME TO THIS BOARD FOR FINAL APPROVAL.

THEN WE MAKE CHANGES. YOU MAKE CHANGES, RIGHT? INSTEAD OF ALLOWING IT TO BE MAYBE AT 90% AND THEN WELL, AND THIS IS WHY WE RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL AT THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN STAGE, AND THEN FINAL WHEN YOU HAVE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS MOST PEOPLE COME IN FOR FINAL BECAUSE THAT'S YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT BUT THE OTHER ROAD PATH IS TO MAKE IT A COUPLE OF STEP PROCESS, BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU DON'T WANT TO COMMIT TO CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS WHEN IT'S GOING TO GET SHOT DOWN IN FRONT OF YOU, BECAUSE EITHER DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT DETAIL YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE COMMITTING TO.

WE'RE DIRECTING STAFF TO WHICH STRONGLY RECOMMENDING TO STAFF THAT THEY SEEK CONCEPTUAL APPROVALS UNTIL CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS ARE AVAILABLE IN THE SHORT TERM.

IS THAT FAIR? SO FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS.

ABSOLUTELY, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DO.

JUST IT MAY CHANGE HOW OFTEN YOU SEE CASES.

YES. WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT AS LONG AS YOU KNOW THAT IS [INAUDIBLE] THERE'S ALSO THE OPPORTUNITY OF THE PRE-PLANNING MEETING WHICH IF IT'S A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD ADDITION OR CHANGE, IT'S THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME FOR A HUGE CONCEPTUAL, AND IF THEY'RE REALLY READY TO COMMIT TO THOSE FINAL DRAWINGS, THEN THAT'S FINE TOO.

THEY JUST NEED TO KNOW THAT'S THE EXPECTATION WE HAVE TO FILING FOR A FINAL APPLICATION.

I THINK WE SHOULD MAYBE TAKE A STRONGER STAND LIKE WE DID LAST TIME AND GRANT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, EVEN THOUGH WHAT THEY WERE ASKING FOR FINAL APPROVAL.

WELL THAT'S GREAT. SO SO AS A BOARD, WHAT WE'RE SAYING, DIRECTOR, IS WE REALLY WANT TO SEE FINAL DRAWINGS BEFORE WE GIVE FINAL APPROVAL.

WE WANT TO SEE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS AND WE WANT TO TREAT ALL CLIENTS THE SAME WAY.

WE CAN'T JUST LET JOSE GO BECAUSE WE KNOW HE'S GOING TO DO IT RIGHT AND THEN TREAT OTHER CLIENTS DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE, WELL, BECAUSE YOU'RE SEEING THE WORK, IT'S SHOWING ITSELF IN WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN PROVIDED TO REVIEW, AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.

JUST FOR THE RECORD TO MAKE FOR THIS EVENING'S HEARING, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAW TONIGHT WAS TWO VERY DIFFERENT SETS OF PLANS THAT HAD MISMATCHES AND INCONSISTENCIES THAT CAUSED YOU TO PAUSE, AND ACTUALLY, THEY DIDN'T MAKE THE CHANGES ON SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THE PREVIOUS MEETING.

SO IT'S NOT ON US.

THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT, BUT THEY DIDN'T SHOW IT IN THE DRAWINGS.

WELL, HE DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP.

THE GUY WHO SAID HE WOULD DO IT, BUT MR. FUHRMAN'S DRAWINGS HE HAD, HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO MAKE THOSE.

HE WAS GOING TO DO THOSE THINGS, BUT THEY DIDN'T SHOW IN HIS DRAWINGS.

RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.

OKAY, KELLY THANK YOU.

THING DID I HAD THE BIGGEST CONTENTION WITH IS THAT THERE WERE ACTUAL MISTAKES ON THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE INCONSISTENT WITH ONE PAGE SAYS X, THE NEXT PAGE SAYS Y, AND WHICH ONE'S RIGHT, WHICH ONE'S GOING TO GET BUILT.

[02:05:01]

RIGHT, AND IN THIS CASE, THE HIRTH HOUSE.

YEAH. YEAH.

I MEAN, WHAT'S WITH A FRONT FACING FORWARD PRESENTING ADDITIONS? OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? YEAH I HAVE PLEASE, JUST A PROCESS QUESTION AND IT'S PROBABLY FOR KELLY WE, WE DID HAVE FOR A SHORT TIME ON THE AGENDA THE ATLANTIC SEAFOOD.

YES, AND IT WAS TAKEN OFF.

IS, IS THAT GOING EVER TO TRC? I CAN'T FIND ANY TRC MINUTES ON THAT PROJECT.

IT WILL. SO MY UNDERSTANDING RIGHT NOW IS THAT THEY'RE WAITING TO FINALIZE THE TERMS OF THE LEASE AGREEMENT BEFORE MOVING FORWARD WITH ANY ADDITIONAL DESIGN REVIEW.

IT WILL HAVE TRC REVIEW AS PART OF THE PROCESS, AND IT WILL LIKELY RUN IN PARALLEL AND SO YOU WILL SIMPLY RUN IT BEFORE TRC SEES IT FOR CONCEPTUAL, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT CONCEPTUALLY WHERE IT'S AT.

BECAUSE IN THIS SCENARIO, THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART, IS THE DESIGN OF THE STRUCTURE.

THE PLACEMENT IS REALLY IT CAN IT CAN GO WHEREVER THE CRA DESIGN GUIDELINES WOULD ACCOMMODATE, AND BASED ON THE ZONING DISTRICT, WHICH ISN'T AS RESTRICTIVE AS WOULD BE THE DESIGN OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO IT'S IN MY MIND MORE IMPORTANT THAT AT A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL, THAT THIS BOARD SEE IT FIRST.

WELL, I THINK IN ORDER TO GET TO THE TRC, YOU HAVE TO HAVE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE COME HERE.

WELL, THAT'S NOT THE USUAL PROCESS, IS IT? IT IS. IT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING.

I'VE SEEN A LOT OF TRC STUFF HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE BEFORE IT COMES HERE.

SO I GUESS I WOULD APPRECIATE MAYBE FOR THE NEXT MEETING IF YOU CAN GIVE US THAT, THAT PROCESS FLOW, THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN FOR A PROJECT AND WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS THAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO GO ONE WAY VERSUS ANOTHER WAY? BECAUSE I'M GETTING WE TALKED ABOUT AFTER THE FACT STUFF A WHILE BACK AND I FEEL NOW I MEAN THE COMMISSION SAID THE OTHER NIGHT THEY WANT THAT.

SO WHERE DOES THAT PUT US? WHAT THEY SAID WAS AND THIS WASN'T CLEAR.

THEY WANT TO START THE PROCESS.

OKAY. I DIDN'T SAY THEY WANT THE BUILDING.

PEOPLE ON THE STREET READ IT AS IT'S BEEN APPROVED.

I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE RUNNING AROUND SAYING IT'S BEEN APPROVED.

SO I AS A PART OF THE PROCESS I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD ALL BE CLEAR ON WHAT IS EXPECTED OF AN APPLICANT THE WHOLE WATERFRONT SCHEME, THE ONLY PLAN I'M AWARE OF THAT'S EVER BEEN APPROVED HAS NO STRUCTURES ON THAT END OF THE WATERFRONT. NO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PLAN WE'RE OPERATING WITH THEN, I GUESS.

SO. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT WHENEVER IT COMES BACK.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT TOO, BECAUSE THE ONLY PLAN I'M AWARE OF HAD STRUCTURES NORTH OF BRETT'S, BUT NOT SOUTH.

SO IN PREPARATION FOR THAT, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO HAVE SOME OF THAT WORK DONE.

THANK YOU, BUT WHAT I HEARD WAS THAT CITY COMMISSION WAS STARTING THE PROCESS.

THEY WERE NOT APPROVING ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY.

THE ONLY THING I THINK ARLENE IS FAIR, THOUGH, BECAUSE IT GETS ADVERTISED THAT THEY APPROVED THE PROCESS AND THEN EVERYBODY GOES OFF THE RAILS, BUT IT'S WE CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BUILDERS AND CITY COMMISSION.

WELL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT GOES THERE BEFORE IT GOES TO ANY OF THE OTHER PROCESSES.

THAT'S WHAT I NEED EDUCATION.

WELL, IN THAT CASE, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY JUST THE FOOTPRINT THAT THE COMMISSION COULD NOT, BUT THE COMMISSION COULDN'T AGREE.

THE VERY FIRST PLAN THAT ERNIE SALTMARSH AND MIKE STAUFFER BROUGHT, JUST CONCEPTUAL, LIKE ROUGH DRAWINGS, AND I MEAN, THERE WAS SOME MEASUREMENTS AND STUFF, BUT ANYWAY, WAS, I DON'T KNOW, 4800FT² SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE AND THE COMMISSION WAS LIKE, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE'RE NOT DOING THAT BIG.

SO WE BROUGHT IT DOWN TO 4300FT².

YEAH. SO I'M JUST YEAH, WHATEVER, AND I THINK HE MET WITH ERNIE SALTMARSH AND MIKE STAUFFER, MET WITH EACH CITY COMMISSIONER ON BOTH THE 4800 ORIGINAL AND THEN THE UPDATED ONE, AND SO BY THE TIME IT CAME HERE, THEY HAD SEEN IT.

SO IT WAS REALLY A SQUARE FOOTAGE.

OKAY. SO I GUESS I WOULD APPRECIATE MORE CLARITY THAT THEN IN THE FUTURE ABOUT WHAT'S PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSION AND WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY SAYING THAT THEY'RE APPROVING BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T COME ACROSS.

IT'S IN THE RESOLUTION. IT'S IN THE RESOLUTION DOESN'T COME ACROSS WHEN YOU'RE WATCHING THE THING FROM HOME.

OKAY. TRUST ME, I AGREE.

IT'S THE COMMUNITY.

REALLY FEELS LIKE THE CITY COMMISSION VOTED TO APPROVE THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE DRAWINGS WERE SHOWN.

I GOT YOU. STAFF NEEDS TO SAY OUTRIGHT.

CLEARLY, THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS AND WE'RE GOING TO HDC.

[02:10:01]

THAT'S ALL. I MEAN, LIKE A VERY SHORT, BRIEF CITY STAFF OR THE CITY MANAGER COMES UP AND SAYS, THIS ITEM IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, AND THE HISTORY OF THIS IS THAT, I MEAN, I COULD HAVE BLASTED IT OUT ONE MINUTE AND SAID, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL APPROVALS.

WE CAN AGREE THIS IS THE FOOTPRINT THAT THE CITY COMMISSION IS FINE WITH YOU AND YOUR ARCHITECT GOING FORWARD WITH DESIGNING PLANS AND THE CITY COMING UP WITH A LEASE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GROUND LEASE.

THAT'S ALL THEY WERE DOING, AND I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN.

YEAH. BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT COULDN'T HAVE COME TO US BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T HAVE HAD A FINAL.

THERE WAS UNTIL THE COMMISSION APPROVED THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

YEAH. YOU WOULD HAVE REALLY PUKED ON THOSE PLANS, RIGHT, THAT WE HAD AT THE COMMISSION.

SO WE'RE NOT DOING THAT, BUT THE, THE.

YEAH. THE OTHER THING BUT I GET I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS IS, IS YOU KNOW I'M HERE INVOLVED, BUT IF YOU'RE WATCHING AT HOME IT JUST MOVE FOR APPROVAL.

WHAT WHAT THE APPROVAL OF ATLANTIC SEAFOOD.

NEW BUILDING. YEAH, I GOT IT.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S NOT BEEN WIDELY PUBLICIZED IS THE APPRAISAL THAT WAS DONE AND SHARED WITH THE CRA IN OCTOBER, AND KATIE SENT ME A COPY BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLIC DOCUMENT WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE $250,000 PER YEAR.

RIGHT POTENTIAL LEASE RATE PLUS THE PERCENTAGE OF GROSS.

SO NOBODY'S AWARE OF THAT EITHER, AND IT JUST SORT OF SLIPPED UNDER THE RADAR.

WELL, I THINK THIS IS ALL STILL PART OF THE NEGOTIATION.

YEAH, THERE'S BEEN NOTHING, BUT THERE'S NO APPRAISAL.

THERE'S AN APPRAISAL OUT THERE.

THERE'S A SECOND APPRAISAL.

THE FIRST ONE WAS LIKE $6,000.

YEAH. THIS IS THE ONE [INAUDIBLE].

YEAH. THERE'S AN APPRAISAL WE GOT IN OCTOBER.

RIGHT? YES. COMPLETED.

IT'S THE ONE THAT YOU RECEIVED.

VERY USEFUL. YEAH I WOULD I WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT TO BE PUBLICIZED.

WELL THE QUESTION IS IF IF THAT'S WHAT THAT'S GOING TO BE, AND THEN THE CITY STAFF SAYS NO, THIS IS WHAT FAIR MARKET IS AND THIS NOW, OR DO YOU STILL WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT? OH YEAH.

THIS MUCH MONEY PLUS A PERCENTAGE AND YOU'RE BUILDING THE BUILDING, SO IT'S STILL PRETTY FLUID.

YEAH, EXACTLY. THANK YOU COUNCIL.

YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU.

SURE. CAN I JUST SAY ONE THING? YES. INSTEAD OF LIKE, TALKING ABOUT BEGINNING A PROCESS, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT ENDING A PROCESS.

I WENT BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION ON TUESDAY AND THEY APPROVED MY TAX EXEMPTION FOR THE HOUSE.

CONGRATULATIONS. FIRST ONE.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL YOUR SUPPORT FOR YOU THAT SPOKE, FOR YOU THAT SPOKE, AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO TELL MAURIE THAT IT'S A SEVEN AND A HALF YEAR PROJECT FOR HER TO [LAUGHTER] A REALISTIC TIME FRAME, AND I LIKE IT AND WE'RE GETTING TOURS OF THE DURYEE BUILDING ? OH, THAT WOULD BE SO COOL.

BEHIND THE CURTAIN UPON REQUEST.

[INAUDIBLE] ARE YOU ADJOURNED? WE ARE ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.