[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
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GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.WELCOME TO THE DECEMBER 13TH, 2023, PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD MEETING.
IT'S OUR REGULAR MEETING FOR DECEMBER, AND IT IS 5:00.
WE'RE MEETING IN THE CITY HALL COMMISSION CHAMBERS IN FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.
MEMBER GINGHER, WOULD YOU LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? YES, MA'AM.
ITEM THREE, APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES.
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
THIS IS 3.1 APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM THE CITY COMMISSION AND OUR PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD.THIS WAS A JOINT WORKSHOP FROM OCTOBER 25TH, 2023.
UH, ANY CORRECTIONS TO THE DRAFT MINUTES FROM THE BOARD? I WOULD YIELD TO YOU BECAUSE I THINK YOU'VE GOT MORE THAN I.
IT'S LIKE A TOP OF THE PAGE, BUT IT'S THE SENTENCE THAT SAYS SHE, MEANING ME.
IS EVERYBODY WITH ME ON THAT? YEP. OKAY.
I'M NOT SURE THAT DIRECTIVE IS THE RIGHT WORD OR TENSE.
I'D LIKE FOR YOU ALL TO LOOK AT THAT.
SO, A CONSENSUS FROM THE CITY COMMISSION REGARDING THE POTENTIAL REVIEW AND CHANGES TO THE PROCESS AND LANGUAGE FOR THESE CODES, I'M NOT SURE THAT DIRECTIVE NEEDS TO BE THERE.
IT READS JUST AS WELL TO SAY AND A CONSENSUS FROM THE CITY COMMISSION REGARDING THE POTENTIAL REVIEW AND CHANGES TO THE PROCESS, I AGREE. EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT.
SO, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE DELETE OR STRIKE DIRECTIVE.
UH, NEXT PARAGRAPH, CHAIR ROBAS POINTED OUT FLORIDA STATUTE 163 .31 744C REGARDING LOCAL PLANNING AGENCY AND EMPHASIZED UM THE SECTION STATING THAT THE LOCAL PLANNING AGENCY, I.E.
BOARD. I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY BOARD MAYBE THAT WE SAY THE PAB OR THE PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IT'S THE PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I THINK I JUST PUT UNLESS YOU WANT TO PUT FERNANDINA BEACH PAB, I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARY.
I THINK JUST PAB JUST ADD SO, RECOMMENDING THAT WE PUT UNDER THIS WHERE IT SAYS I.E.
THAT WE JUST SAY THE INITIALS PAB, AND THEN DOES ANYBODY HAVE GOING BACK TO THE PREVIOUS PART OF THAT SENTENCE, POINTED OUT THE STATUTE REGARDING LOCAL PLANNING AGENCY, DOES THAT, DOES THAT READ OKAY TO YOU GUYS. IT DOES.
ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING ELSE.
OKAY. GOING TO, GOSH, JUST LIKE THE THIRD PAGE HERE. CHAIR ROBAS PROCEEDED TO EXPLAIN THE FLOWCHART PROPOSED BY COMMISSIONER STURGIS SHOWING A PROPOSED LOT SEPARATION PROCESS.
EVERYBODY HAVE THAT? YEAH, THAT'S ON PAGE FIVE.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE FILE ONLINE.
PERIOD. MEMBERS NOTED THAT A PROVISION ABOUT PARKING COULD BE ADDED.
NOW, DOES THAT MEAN, UH, I'M GOING TO NEED YOUR HELP ON REMEMBERING THIS? DOES THAT MEAN ADDED TO THE FLOWCHART PROCESS, OR DOES THAT MEAN ANOTHER NOTE SOMEWHERE? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? I THINK MY INTENT ON THAT WAS IF THEY WERE TO TAKE AWAY A LOT TO DEVELOP, THAT THEY WOULD NOT UNDERMINE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR
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THE LOT THEY WERE RETAINING.EXACTLY, EXACTLY. YOU DON'T VIOLATE A PARKING REQUIREMENT ISSUE FOR THE.
THAT'S. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT YOU MEANT.
ALL RIGHT. I'M TRYING TO THINK IF YOU CAN CLARIFY THAT, CAN WE CLARIFY THAT? DOES THAT? IS ANYBODY GOING TO REMEMBER THAT LIKE THREE MONTHS FROM NOW? PROBABLY NOT. PROBABLY NOT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN.
I KNOW I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THAT IN THAT SENTENCE THAT THE ISSUE WAS BROUGHT UP TO ENSURE THAT WHEN LOTS WERE TAKEN APART AND BEING SOLD SEPARATELY, THAT IT DID NOT CAUSE OTHER LOTS THAT WERE BEING RETAINED TO HAVE A VIOLATION OF PARKING REQUIREMENTS. OKAY, TAYLOR, DOES THAT HELP? YES, MA'AM. DO YOU THINK YOU CAN WORK WITH THAT? YES. THANK YOU. OKAY.
AND THE OTHER I THINK THE OTHER POINT THAT YOU HAD WAS JUST MAKE SURE THAT'S PART OF THE EQUATION.
THAT'S ALMOST THAT'S ANOTHER THING TO ANOTHER BLOCK TO CHECK, SO TO SPEAK.
GOING THROUGH IT. YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE APPLICATION.
ALL RIGHT. THEN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH AFTER THAT THE LAST SENTENCE, IT'S TALKING ABOUT VOICED A CONCERN. COULD GO DIRECTLY TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER TO RESTORE LOTS OF RECORD COMMA.
THIS WITHOUT PROVIDING ADJACENT.
PROPERTY OWNERS WITH PUBLIC NOTICE IS PUTTING THE WORD THIS, GO DIRECTLY TO THE PROPER PLACE TO RESTORE LOTS OF RECORD COMMA.
IS IT NECESSARY? CAN YOU SAY RESTORE LOTS OF RECORD COMMA WITHOUT PROVIDING ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS? OR DO WE NEED? I MEAN; THIS REFERS TO GOING DIRECTLY TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER.
IS THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO SAY IT OR A BETTER WAY TO SAY IT? OR IS IT OKAY? ANYWAYS, OKAY, I THINK WE'RE MOVING TO THIS IS BETTER.
I FOUND IT A LITTLE AWKWARD, BUT I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU GUYS.
I THINK THE INTENT WAS THAT THIS ACTION OR THIS PROCESS, WHATEVER.
JUST TAKING THIS OUT OF THERE DOESN'T IT DOESN'T JUST TAKE THE COMMA AND THIS OUT.
CORRECT. IT WOULD BE TO STRIKE THE COMMA AND STRIKE THIS.
SO, IT WOULD READ BOTH PROPOSED FLOWCHARTS WHERE OWNERS COULD GO DIRECTLY TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER TO RESTORE LOTS OF RECORD WITHOUT PROVIDING ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS WITH PUBLIC NOTICE.
DOES THAT READ OKAY TO YOU GUYS? YEAH. YEAH OKAY.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE ON THESE MINUTES? IF NOT, DO I HEAR A MOTION FOR APPROVAL MOVE.
GOT IT. JUST NEED A LITTLE VOCALIZATION HERE.
OKAY, SO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL.
WE HAVE A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
AYE. OPPOSED? LIKE SIGN HEARING NONE.
UH, THE MINUTES FOR OCTOBER 25TH, 2023, ARE APPROVED, AS AMENDED.
ALL RIGHT. UH, THE NEXT ONE IS THE MINUTES.
MINUTES OF THE SEPTEMBER 13TH? NO, THAT'S TODAY.
OH, YOU'RE RIGHT, SEPTEMBER 13TH.
YES, IT IS I'VE GOT TOO MANY PIECES OF PAPER IN FRONT OF ME, FOLKS.
SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, THESE ARE THE MINUTES OF OUR REGULAR MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 13TH.
UH, ANY CHANGES TO THOSE MINUTES? YES. OKAY.
LET'S HEAR, THIS IS KIND OF CLARIFICATION, WHERE THE ONE MOTION WAS MADE.
NICK, YOU ARE NOT LISTED AS AN AYE OR A NAY, BUT I THINK YOU RECUSED YOURSELF.
YEAH, I THINK WE OUGHT TO CLARIFY THAT.
YEAH, I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A NOTE THAT YOU ACCUSED YOURSELF, RIGHT? YEAH. BECAUSE DURING THE VOTE PASSAGE, AT LEAST IT OUGHT TO SAY THAT I ABSTAINED.
YEAH. BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU WERE THERE.
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YOU'RE PART OF, I MEAN, YOU'RE IN THE NOTES, SO YOU'RE THERE.SO YEAH, I WOULD JUST SAY JUST PUT A NOTE IN THERE THAT YOU RECUSED HIMSELF.
NO OTHER CHANGES TO THE MINUTES.
DO I HEAR A MOTION FOR APPROVAL? MOTION FOR APPROVAL AS MODIFIED.
I'M SORRY. MOTION FOR APPROVAL.
ALL RIGHT. DO I HEAR A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND.
AYE. OPPOSED? LIKE SIGN HEARING NONE.
THE MOTION IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.
ITEM FOR OLD BUSINESS 4.1 PAB CASE 2023-0043.
[4.1 PAB 2023-0043 - ELIZABETH MOORE, AGENT FOR PLLUMI INVESTMENTS LLC, 766 KENNETH COURT]
DAPHNE, YOUR REPORT PLEASE.THANK YOU. SO TONIGHT, WE'LL BE DISCUSSING PAB 2020 3-0043.
THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION AND ASSIGNMENT OF FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
CATEGORY OF MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AND ZONING.
LOW. MEDIUM FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 766 KENNETH COURT.
THIS ENCOMPASSES THREE PARCELS THAT TOTAL APPROXIMATELY 0.92 ACRES, AND THEY ARE CURRENTLY VACANT.
THE APPLICANT IS ELIZABETH MOORE REPRESENTING PLUMEY INVESTMENT LLC.
IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED NASSAU COUNTY RESIDENTIAL, MIXED WITH A FLUME OF NASSAU COUNTY MEDIUM DENSITY.
UM, LET'S LOOK AT THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES.
THERE ARE SOME OFFICE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS IN NASSAU COUNTY ZONED COMMERCIAL INTENSIVE WITH A COMMERCIAL LAND USE, AND TO THE EAST YOU HAVE SOME CITY COMMERCIAL PROPERTY ZONED C-1 AND WITH A PLUME OF GENERAL COMMERCIAL.
AND ANALYZING THE PROPOSED FLUME AND ZONING OF RLM AND MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
THE REQUESTED RLM ZONING DOES ALLOW FOR A 50-FOOT LOT WIDTH, WHICH CONTRASTS WITH THE SURROUNDING LOT WIDTHS AT 100 TO 75FT. WITHIN THIS AREA.
THE RLM ZONING DISTRICT ALSO ALLOWS FOR A HIGHER DENSITY AT SIX UNITS PER ACRE COMPARED TO THE ADJACENT AREAS, WHICH ARE 3 TO 4 UNITS PER ACRE THREE IN NASSAU COUNTY AND FOUR WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS IN R-1 LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
AND JUST A NOTE HERE THAT THE PROPOSED FUTURE LAND USE MAP ASSIGNMENT SHOULD BE ANALYZED BASED ON THE TYPE AND THE DENSITY OF THE SURROUNDING USES, WHICH IS WHY I AM INCLUDING THIS ABOUT THE LOT WIDTHS WITHIN THAT SURROUNDING AREA AND THE DENSITIES WITHIN THAT SURROUNDING AREA.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT THIS WOULD BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA OFFERING A 75-FOOT LOT WITH REQUIREMENT, AND IT WOULD ALSO ALIGN WITH A DENSITY OF FOUR DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE.
AND MOVING ON TO THE LEVEL OF SERVICE ANALYSIS FOR THE FOR THE ANNEXATION.
AND OUR ASSESSMENT DOES CONFIRM THAT PUBLIC FACILITIES AND SERVICES NECESSARY FOR DEVELOPMENT ON THESE PARCELS ARE IN PLACE, AND EACH OF THESE SERVICES CAN MAINTAIN OR EXCEED THE LEVEL OF SERVICES MANDATED BY THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN POLICIES.
DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE BOARD? IS THE APPLICANT GOOD WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATION? THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE THEIR OWN PRESENTATION THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO BRING FORWARD WHENEVER THE BOARD IS READY.
OKAY. I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION, MADAM CHAIR.
SO, THE APPLICANT HAS NOT REQUESTED THIS ZONING.
WE'RE JUST PICKING IT FOR THEM.
YES. THIS IS THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
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OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.I THINK AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE PROPERTY OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE.
UH, BETH MOORE WITH SNOWDEN INGRAHAM LAW FIRM.
OUR ADDRESS IS 1617 SAN MARCO BOULEVARD IN JACKSONVILLE.
I AM HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, LANDOWNER PLUMEY INVESTMENTS.
THANK YOU, DAPHNE, FOR THAT SUMMARY.
AND THANK YOU TO THE BOARD FOR LISTENING TO THIS PRESENTATION.
BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, I JUST WANT TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES TO GO THROUGH AND PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT AND BACKGROUND TO HELP WITH YOUR DELIBERATIONS. UM, SO THE GREEN LOTS OUTLINED IN RED ARE THE PROPERTY.
THEY CONSIST OF THREE 100-FOOT LOTS.
AND THIS IS JUST ZOOMED IN AND SHOWS, UM, SO YOU CAN SEE HOW THE PROPERTY AND REALLY, THE SOUTHERN HALF OF KENNETH COURT ESSENTIALLY SERVES AS A BUFFER TO THE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL USES TO THE SOUTH, AND THEN THE MORE RESIDENTIAL AREAS TO THE NORTH, LIKE BARRINGTON.
THERE'S A LOT THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDERGOING LOOKS LIKE SOME LOT CLEARING.
COLE BUILDERS IS ALSO JUST TO THE EAST OF THE PROPERTY.
AND OF COURSE, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PARKWAY IS THE AIRPORT AND THE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT.
THIS IS WHAT THE SITE LOOKS LIKE NOW.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S NOT VERY MUCH VEGETATION THERE.
THERE ARE A FEW TREES, BUT NOT A WHOLE LOT OF LARGER TREES OR TREE CANOPY.
MEDIUM DENSITY IS, UM, MEDIUM DENSITY.
LAND USE FOR THE COUNTY ALLOWS UP TO THREE UNITS PER ACRE.
AND ON THE ISLAND, IT IS THE PREDOMINANT LAND USE THAT THE COUNTY IS DESIGNATED FOR.
RESIDENTIAL. ALONG THE COAST, THERE ARE SOME HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, BUT THOSE ARE MOSTLY THE CONDOS ALONG THE BEACH AND MORE MULTIFAMILY THAT ALLOW UP TO TEN DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. AND THIS IS THE CITY'S FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
AND I THINK THIS IS HELPFUL JUST TO SHOW HOW THERE'S KIND OF A CORRIDOR HERE FROM SIMMONS ROAD DOWN WHERE MANY OF THESE PROPERTIES DO ABUT THE CITY, BUT HAVE DECIDED, FOR WHATEVER REASON, NOT TO ANNEX INTO THE CITY.
SO, THIS SHOWS THE CITY BOUNDARIES AND HOW THIS IS KIND OF ITS OWN LITTLE BIT OF THE COUNTY.
SO, THE COUNTY ZONING MAP KENNETH COURT HERE IS ZONED AS RESIDENTIAL, MIXED AS DAPHNE MENTIONED.
AND I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF INCLUDE THIS FROM THE COUNTY'S LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE COUNTY SEES THIS EXISTING RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND CERTAIN AREAS OF THE COUNTY HAS BEEN EXTREMELY HAPHAZARD, RESULTING IN FREQUENT INCOMPATIBILITY OF RESIDENTIAL LAND USES.
SUCH AREAS CANNOT BE EQUITABLY CLASSIFIED UNDER OTHER RESIDENTIAL CATEGORIES IN THIS ORDINANCE, FOR TO DO SO WOULD CREATE NEW INNUMERABLE NONCONFORMITIES WOULD WORK HARDSHIP ON PRESENT OCCUPANTS AND WOULD MAKE ZONING ENFORCEMENT DIFFICULT.
SO, I COULDN'T GO OUT AND TRY TO REZONE A COUNTY PROPERTY AS RESIDENTIAL MIX TODAY.
SO, IN ESSENCE, THE RESIDENTIAL MIX ZONING CATEGORY UNDER THE COUNTY, IT'S KIND OF LIKE A CATCH ALL OR LIKE A LEFT-OVER ZONING, WHERE PROPERTIES DON'T NECESSARILY FIT NEATLY INTO ONE OF THE MORE TRADITIONAL ZONING DISTRICTS.
IT'S A LITTLE HAPHAZARD, LITTLE INCOMPATIBLE.
SO, IT ENDS UP BEING RESIDENTIAL.
MIXED AND SINGLE-FAMILY DWELLINGS AND MOBILE HOMES ARE ALLOWED UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL MIXED CATEGORY.
THE MINIMUM LOT WIDTH IS 75FT.
THE MINIMUM LOT AREA WOULD ACCOMMODATE UP TO FIVE UNITS PER ACRE.
BUT OF COURSE, BECAUSE OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT IS CAPPED AT THREE UNITS PER ACRE.
THIS MAP SHOWS THE CITY ZONING.
THEN THERE'S THE MIXED-USE AREA.
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BARRINGTON TO THE NORTH IS ZONED R1, BUT THEN FURTHER NORTH TO THAT, ABOUT 2/10 LESS THAN 2/10 OF A MILE IS LAKESIDE, WHICH IS CURRENTLY RLM, WHICH IS THE ZONING THAT WE'RE SEEKING.SO, THE APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED THE ANNEX INTO THE CITY WITH A LOW MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL WHICH IS DAPHNE COVERED, WOULD ALLOW 50-FOOT LOTS, SO EACH OF THE 100-FOOT LOTS COULD BE DIVIDED AND THEN DEVELOPED WITH SIX HOUSES TOTAL ON CITY WATER AND SEWER.
AND AS STAFF RECOMMENDED, THEY HAVE RECOMMENDED THE R-1 DISTRICT UM, WHICH ALLOWS 75-FOOT LOTS.
SO WHENEVER THERE'S PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT PRESERVING THE COMMUNITY CHARACTER.
AND SOMETIMES IT'S A LITTLE BIT VAGUE.
SOMETIMES IT'S A EUPHEMISM FOR WE JUST DON'T LIKE IT.
AND BECAUSE IT'S ALSO THE RESIDENTIAL MIXED ZONING, IT COULD BE MOBILE HOMES THERE.
SO, I WANTED TO JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT OTHER THINGS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.
TALK THROUGH THIS TO TALK THROUGH THIS CONCEPT OF COMMUNITY CHARACTER.
HERE'S AN OVERVIEW OF KIND OF WHAT'S THERE EXISTING ON KENNETH COURT.
UM, KENNETH COURT CONSISTS OF 14 100-FOOT LOTS THAT WERE DEVELOPED OVER TIME.
THAT'S NOW PART OF A MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY.
THEY'RE MOSTLY SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES.
THERE ARE A FEW MOBILE HOMES THERE.
THE HOMES ON THE STREET ARE MOSTLY OLDER.
THE EARLIEST ONES DATE TO THE EARLY 40S.
THE HOUSES ARE ALSO ON THE SMALLER SIDE TO GO ALONG WITH BEING OLDER.
THE AVERAGE SIZE IS AROUND 1250 FOUR SQUARE FEET.
SOME OF THEM ARE MUCH SMALLER.
MOSTLY THEY'RE TWO AND THREE BEDROOMS, AND THERE ARE NO TWO-STORY HOUSES ON THE STREET AT ALL.
SO NEXT DOOR TO THE LOTS THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IS ACTUALLY A GARAGE.
MEANING THAT TO THE WEST, TO THE SOUTH, AND THEN PARTIALLY TO THE EAST.
THERE ARE NO RESIDENCES SURROUNDING THESE PROPERTIES IN TERMS OF VEGETATION OR TREE CANOPY.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF CONSISTENCY ON THIS STREET EITHER.
SOME OF THE LOTS HAVE ALMOST NO VEGETATION.
SOME HAVE MORE SHRUBS AND BUSHES OUT FRONT TO SCREEN FROM THE ROAD.
SO, THERE'S MANY REASONS WHY SOMEONE MIGHT NOT WANT TO FILE FOR HOMESTEAD, BUT USUALLY IT'S BECAUSE IT'S EITHER A SECOND PROPERTY OR AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY AND SOMEONE'S RENTING IT OUT. UM, AND IT APPEARS THAT THE CHARACTER OF THE STREET IS ALREADY CHANGING.
AND ONE OF THE HOUSES HAS BEEN LISTED FOR SALE, BUT IT'S LISTED AS LOT SLASH LAND.
SO OVERALL, I THINK WHEN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT NOT ONLY THE LOT SIZE BUT ALSO THE HOUSE SIZES, SITE PLACEMENT, HEIGHT, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND EXISTING VEGETATION, I THINK THAT THE ZONING WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH KENNETH COURT AND THE OVERALL CHARACTER OF THIS REALLY, TRULY MIXED-USE AREA. SO JUST TO SUMMARIZE, UM, WE DO HAVE A UNIQUE PROPERTY AND IT'S A UNIQUE SITUATION HERE.
THIS IS NOT A STANDARD MASTER PLAN DEVELOPMENT.
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EAST. AND WE'RE REQUESTING AN RLM ZONING BECAUSE WE FEEL THAT THE SMALLER LOTS WOULD EQUATE TO SMALLER HOUSES, AND THOSE SMALLER HOUSES WOULD BETTER FIT THE CHARACTER OF THAT STREET, UM, RATHER THAN HAVING LARGER HOUSES ON LARGER LOTS.THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIREMENTS FOR A SUBDIVISION LIKE SIDEWALKS, STREETLIGHTS, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, THINGS THAT MIGHT MAKE THOSE FOUR UNITS SEEM EVEN MORE SET APART, MORE TO THEMSELVES, MORE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT'S ALREADY ON THAT STREET.
UM, SO WE HAVE CONCERN THAT IT WOULD BECOME EVEN LESS COMPATIBLE.
SO, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE.
DOES THE BOARD HAVE QUESTIONS? MAYBE A QUESTION FOR DAPHNE.
AND I'M SORRY. PLEASE SAY YOUR NAME AGAIN.
THANK YOU. SO, I'M A HUGE PROPONENT OF NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER, BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR I'VE.
I'VE BEEN DOWN THIS STREET A COUPLE OF TIMES.
THE CHARACTER OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS GOING TO CHANGE.
UM, AND SO I'M WONDERING HOW WITH WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO STAY CONSISTENT WITH IT, BUT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE.
THOSE HOMES ARE GOING TO SELL.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE DEMOLISHED, IS HOW WHAT IS THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD GOING TO BE MORE OR LESS LIKE WITH THESE HOMES BUILT? DO YOU KNOW? ARE YOU ASKING TO KIND OF SPECULATE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR? I'M JUST, I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE, I THINK WHAT YOU DO HERE IS LIKELY GOING TO INFLUENCE THE DIRECTION OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND SO, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW IF YOU KNOW AND WILL TELL US THAT.
YEAH. AND I THINK I MEAN, RIGHT NOW THERE HAVEN'T BEEN DRAWINGS DONE YET OR, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT SPECIFICS IN TERMS OF WHAT WILL BE INCLUDED.
YOU WANT IT TO KIND OF FIT IN AND COMPLEMENT WHAT'S ALREADY THERE AND NOT RADICALLY CHANGE.
SO, I THINK IT COULD BE SIMILAR TO, YOU KNOW, ONE STORY OR MAYBE LIKE A VERY SMALL TWO STORY YOU KNOW, TYPE OF HOUSE.
I'M NOT THINKING TWO STORY, LIKE, YOU KNOW, A TRUE TWO STORY, BUT LIKE A, YOU KNOW.
YEAH. I'M NOT I'M NOT A DEVELOPER.
YES. SO, YOU PROBABLY UNDERSTAND.
SO, I THINK THAT HAVING THESE LOTS ALONG AMELIA ROAD NEXT TO THE KIND OF THE COMMERCIAL USES, YOU KNOW, IT HELPS PROVIDE THAT TRANSITION THEN TO THE RESIDENTIAL HOMES THAT ARE MORE ON THE INTERIOR OR MORE TO THE NORTH.
BARB, I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA.
ALSO, IT DOES INVITE SMALL HOUSES.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT OVERWHELMING.
THERE'S NOTHING THERE THAT'S OVERWHELMINGLY BIG.
BUT CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, THERE'S LOTS OF 100-FOOT LOTS.
SO, IT'S A LOW-DENSITY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I MEAN, AT ONE TIME THIS WAS MOSTLY FARMING OUT THERE.
AND THIS IS A DEAL SITUATION AS A DOMINO EFFECT.
THIS CHANGES. ALL THE REST OF THEM WILL WANT TO CHANGE, TOO.
I WOULD GUESS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WHY BUILD ONE HOUSE WHEN I CAN BUILD 2 OR 3? YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT JUST GOES TO THE UNDERLYING LAND DEVELOPMENT AND VALUE.
SO, I'M OPPOSED TO WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, AND I WOULD AGREE THAT THE R-1 ZONING AND THE LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL THAT THE CITY STAFF HAS PROPOSED IS IDEAL AND A GOOD WAY TO GO.
AND THAT WOULD SET THE TONE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE DON'T WE DON'T WANT THINGS DENSE.
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COMMERCIAL USES. AND HERE IT'S RIGHT ON AMELIA ROAD.IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE PARKWAY.
AND SMALLER HOUSES ALSO MEAN, YOU KNOW, A LOWER PRICE POINT AS WELL.
AND THERE IS AN AFFORDABILITY ISSUE HERE IN THE CITY.
AND SO, THAT MEANS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK ON THE ISLAND AND GO OVER THAT BRIDGE MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY, UM, AREN'T ABLE TO AFFORD LIVING ON THE ISLAND IN THE CITY. SO, IT, YOU KNOW, IT ALSO BENEFITS THAT AS WELL.
SO, SO DENSITY IF DONE RIGHT AND DONE THE.
RIGHT WAY, I THINK CAN BE A REALLY POSITIVE THING.
OKAY, PETE, I'M GOING BACK TO COMP PLAN 100 AND 204.
JUST IN TERMS OF IF I JUST TAKE A SNAPSHOT OF THE PROPERTY, TO ME IT'S RESIDENTIAL.
I CAN'T PREDICT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW.
BUT I THINK IF WE KEEP THE SAME CHARACTER OF THE COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW, THE NEW HOUSES WILL BE THERE.
THEREFORE, MY VIEW IS THAT I DO NOT WANT TO SEE A DENSITY OF SIX HOUSES IN THAT AREA.
SO, I'M GOING TO STICK WITH THE THREE, BECAUSE THAT IS, THAT IS THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS RIGHT NOW UNDER WHAT THE PROPOSED PLANNING DEPARTMENT SOLUTION IS IN MIND IS JUST BASED UPON, I DON'T KNOW ANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.
MARK, DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER COMMENT? WELL, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE CAN'T PREDICT WHAT'S GOING TO GO IN THERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE CAN CONTROL WHAT GOES IN THERE, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.
BUT IT'S HOW WE SET THE CONTROL IN THAT AREA.
AND WE STILL NEED TO HEAR FROM THE AUDIENCE.
ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER. I JUST HAD ONE QUICK COMMENT.
I THINK PERSONALLY, THE SOUTH SIDE OF KENNETH COURT IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL THAN THE NORTH SIDE.
I THINK THAT THIS ABUTS AN ASPHALT PARKING LOT.
IF THIS WERE THE NORTH SIDE, I WOULD I'D SAY R-1 DEFINITELY, BECAUSE YOU'RE ABUTTING BARRINGTON.
BUT I DO THINK THIS AREA IS TRANSITIONAL MYSELF.
AND I THINK IF YOU IF YOU WERE TO HAVE 75-FOOT LOTS ALONG KENNETH COURT HERE AND INTRODUCE THE BELLSOUTH BUILDING TO THE SOUTH, WE WOULD BE BUFFERING IT TO DEATH.
PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S A MIXED USE.
I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE I LIKE ANY OF IT, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, BUT I THINK IF WE'RE STICKING A 75-FOOT LOT BY ALL THIS COMMERCIAL, THAT MAYBE WOULD BE LESS TRANSITIONAL THAN WHAT WE WOULD NORMALLY DO.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT ONLY RELATES TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF KENNETH COURT.
I THINK THE NORTH SIDE WOULD FUNDAMENTALLY MATCH BARRINGTON.
I'LL THROW THAT OUT THERE. I WOULD ONLY SAY THAT, YES, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A PARKING LOT NOW, BUT CONSIDERING THAT WE NOW HAVE RULES IMPOSED ON US BY THE STATE THAT COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL CAN GO INTO APARTMENT PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE COULD CERTAINLY LOOK AT THAT NICE BIG LOT ON THE SOUTH END, AND IT WOULD BE IDEAL TO BUILD A NICE BIG APARTMENT PROJECT SO WE CAN ONLY CONTROL WHAT WE CONTROL.
SO AGAIN, I THINK THE R-1 ZONING AND THE LOW DENSITY IS THE MAXIMUM THAT I WOULD GO.
I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT.
BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR ALSO FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO DAPHNE, DO WE KNOW WHAT ANYBODY KNOWS ? DAPHNE, WHAT'S BEING DEVELOPED THAT BETH ALLUDED TO ON THE PARKWAY, RIGHT, I DO, IT'S BEACHES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.
WE HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
WE'LL BRING YOU BACK UP. THANK YOU.
REMEMBER A LOT OF COMMERCIALS.
SO, PROPERTY OUT ON THE PARKWAY TO, YOU KNOW, THE LARGE COMMERCIAL.
RIGHT AT THIS POINT, WE'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM RESIDENTS OR MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.
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AND SO, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO COME UP, PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND GIVE US YOUR COMMENTS.YES. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS LAURIE LEMKE, 751 BARRINGTON DRIVE, FERNANDINA BEACH AND I LIVE IN BARRINGTON NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, MANY OF THE RESIDENTS ARE HERE TONIGHT.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO SUPPORT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO DENY THE ASSIGNMENT OF MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL LAND USE CATEGORY AND THE RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM ZONING FOR THE THREE PARCELS ON KENNETH COURT.
SO, THE BORDER OF BORDERS ON AMELIA ROAD, AS WE HEARD IN KENNETH COURT AND ITS VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY RIGHT UP TO AMELIA PARKWAY. IT ALSO THOUGH WE SAID THAT IT'S NOT EXACTLY ON BORDERS TO BARRINGTON RIGHT ACROSS THE WAY IT DOES.
BUT LET ME JUST HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE.
ONE IS THAT IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME THAT WE CAN SUPPORT THE LEVEL OF SERVICE.
THAT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME AT ALL.
AND OF COURSE, THAT'S WHAT YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT.
SO, WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THAT INCREASE AND HOW IT IMPACTS MOBILITY, INCLUDING THE SIDEWALKS AND BIKE TRAILS AND ALL OF THAT, BECAUSE THAT IS IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, TO ALL OF US.
AND IT IS A CONCERN UP AND DOWN THE STREET.
BUT THE DEEPER CONSIDERATION WITH THIS REQUEST IS ALLOWING AN INCREASE IN DENSITY.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE WETLANDS THAT WE'VE LOST BECAUSE OF THE DEVELOPMENT AROUND US.
OUR STREET IS WORN OUT BECAUSE OF THE DEVELOPMENT AROUND US.
WE COULD THROW IN OUR DIME AS ANOTHER EXAMPLE.
SO, WE'VE SEEN AN INCREASE IN FLOODING.
WE'VE SEEN AN INCREASE RECENTLY BECAUSE OF THE RAINS AND SOME DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS GOING ON DOWN THE STREET ON, ON KENNETH, ON OTHER PARTS OF THE ISLAND.
AND THAT INCLUDES THE CENTRAL PART OF THE ISLAND.
SO, EVERY TIME WE INCREASE THE DENSITY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN IMPACT ON THAT.
AND SO, IT WOULD BE EASY JUST TO LOOK AT THIS SIMPLY.
BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT, I THINK, AS A SYSTEM.
AND REMEMBER THAT ONCE ALL OF THIS IS DESTROYED, WE CAN'T RETURN IT.
WE'RE ALREADY WITNESSING A LOT OF HUGE LOSS OF TREES IN THE AREA.
YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DERMATOLOGY, AND WE'VE SEEN LOSS IN THOSE KIN OF THE TWO.
SO, WE WOULD REALLY ASK YOU TO STRONGLY SUPPORT THE STAFF REPORT.
WE WOULD ALSO ASK, GIVEN THE CURRENT SITUATION THAT WE'RE HAVING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT WHATEVER IS AGREED UPON, THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT THE ELEVATION, THE STORMWATER, THAT THERE BE A TREE PLAN, SOIL TESTS AND REALLY STRICT ADHERENCE TO THE LIGHTING SITUATIONS.
SO, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD'S DONE A LOT AND WE JUST HOPE THAT IT WILL CONTINUE.
[00:40:06]
SO, WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO SUPPORT THE STAFF.MAY I YES, PLEASE COME AHEAD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
YES. VANESSA STUBBS, I LIVE AT 744 KENNETH COURT.
SO, I'M NEXT TO THAT LARGE GARAGE ON THE SOUTH SIDE THERE, AND I HAVE SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.
AND I'LL START WITH THE HAPHAZARD PLANNING THAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE CURRENT ZONING.
AND IT'S IRONIC BECAUSE I THINK ADDING SIX HOUSES WOULD LOOK HAPHAZARD.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT CLEARLY JUST WOULD NOT FIT WITH THE CURRENT PLAN.
YOU KNOW, THE BEAUTY OF THESE LOTS IS THAT WE HAVE GREEN SPACE.
I HAVE AN 850 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE BUILT IN 1955.
I PURCHASED IT FROM THE ORIGINAL FAMILY ESTATE WHO WERE SHRIMPERS IN THIS INDUSTRY.
MY NEIGHBOR WHO HAS PASSED AWAY, SHE WAS A BARTENDER SERVING THESE INDIVIDUALS.
AND SO, THIS PLACE HAS A LOT OF HISTORY.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE GREEN SPACE I THINK IS IMPORTANT.
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN BUILD THREE HOMES HERE AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THAT.
BUT WE TALK ABOUT PERMEABILITY AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, THERE IS IF YOU GO DOWN AMELIA ROAD, YOU'LL SEE EVERY DITCH IS FULL RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT WATER COMES FROM THE NORTHWEST.
THERE'S A LOT OF CREEKS AND STUFF COMING IN FROM THE WATERWAY.
AND SO, I, YOU KNOW, I'VE LIVED THERE EIGHT YEARS AND I SEE IT RISING.
IT WAS SO BAD THAT MY CHILDREN WERE ABLE TO TAKE THEIR KAYAKS AND PADDLE RIGHT NEXT DOOR IN THAT GARAGE LOT THAT WE ARE CARETAKERS FOR. AND SO, WE HAD THE COUNTY COME OUT AND DIG OUR DITCHES, AND THAT HAS HELPED.
BUT THEY'RE STILL FULL AND I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT UNTIL RECENTLY.
SO, MY CONCERN ABOUT ADDING SIX MORE HOMES IS THAT THAT'S JUST GOING TO GET WORSE.
AND THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL THE WATER IS GOING BACK TO AMELIA ROAD AS IT SHOULD.
SO, I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S A GREAT IDEA TO ADD MORE THAN WHAT IT WAS INTENDED TO.
I THINK DAPHNE DID AN EXTREMELY GREAT JOB ON HER REPORT.
I MEAN, SHE'S DEAD ON AS FAR AS THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE SOLUTIONS TO THAT.
RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET THERE, THEY PUT IN A MOBILE HOME, AND I THINK IT WAS DONE TASTEFULLY.
UM, EVERYONE HERE HAS RVS, BOATS, AND WE APPRECIATE THE SPACE.
THIS IS A QUIET, DEAD-END ROAD.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS PART OF THE CHARACTER.
AND WE STILL ARE A FISHING TOWN.
WE STILL ARE SURFERS, YOU KNOW, WE LOVE OUR OUTDOORS AND OUR TOYS.
AND THAT'S WHAT KENNETH COURT IS.
AND SO, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU GUYS GO WITH DAPHNE'S RECOMMENDATION.
VERY GOOD. I'M SORRY, MA'AM, WHAT WAS YOUR NAME? VANESSA. V-A-N-N-E-Z-A.
I WILL SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT THE DITCHES SEEM TO HAVE MORE AND MORE WATER IN THEM.
AND THE COUNTY'S BEEN OUT THERE 2 OR 3 TIMES, AND I THINK THEY'RE MAKING IT WORSE AT TIMES.
BUT I THINK THAT AT LEAST ON THE AMELIA ROAD SIDE, THE KENNETH COURT IS DOING BETTER.
BUT YEAH, KENNETH COURT IS DOING GREAT.
THERE ARE SOME ISSUES RIGHT ON THE AMELIA ROAD SIDE.
DAPHNE, DID WE GET ANY ELEVATION CHARTS OR ANYTHING WITH THIS PACKAGE? NO. OKAY.
AND VANESSA, I'M PRETTY SURE I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO HEAR IT FROM YOU.
THESE NEW HOMES WILL, I'M PRETTY SURE, INCREASE THE PROPERTY VALUES OF THAT STREET.
YOU'D RATHER HAVE THE CHARACTER OF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD INCREASE? PROBABLY. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FORGETTING HERE IS THAT THIS IS A GREAT BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEBODY.
BUT FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME, I'M GOING TO RETIRE IN THIS HOME.
I'M A LOCAL HERE. MY HUSBAND IS A LOCAL.
I MEAN, DON'T FORGET ABOUT US.
AND I WISH THAT EVERYONE CAN EXPERIENCE THAT.
AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN I HEAR SIX HOMES, I THINK OF MARGARITAVILLE LIKE THIS.
THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, TINSELTOWN, LIKE, THIS IS A REAL COMMUNITY.
THERE'S A FARMER ADJACENT ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE THERE SEASONALLY.
HE'S OUT THERE WITH HIS TRACTOR AND HE'S GOT A BEAUTIFUL GARDEN GOING ON.
[00:45:01]
THERE'RE TONS MORE GARAGES DOWN AMELIA ROAD THAT YOU PROBABLY CAN'T SEE BECAUSE THERE'S BEAUTIFUL, MATURE TREES COVERING THEM.AND I THINK IT'S VERY TASTEFUL.
THERE ARE PECAN TREES ON THIS PROPERTY THAT'S IN QUESTION RIGHT NOW, AND THOSE HAVE HISTORICAL VALUE, TOO, BECAUSE PECANS WERE BROUGHT HERE TO THIS REGION A VERY LONG TIME AGO. FURTHERMORE, THERE IS A OR.
THERE WERE THREE CAMELLIAS THERE THAT WERE FROM THE WORLD-RENOWNED BREEDER.
MR. GERBIG, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH HIM, BUT YES, HIS, YOU KNOW, HIS GARDEN WAS THERE ON THE SOUTH END, AND THE ORIGINAL OWNER, MRS. MUSIC, WHO SOLD THAT PROPERTY, THOSE WERE HER CAMELLIAS.
AND SHE TOLD ME ALL ABOUT THINGS.
I'M A HORTICULTURALIST MYSELF.
AND THEY WERE VERY RARE BREEDS.
SO, THERE IS CHARACTER HERE I'D LIKE TO SEE IT MAINTAINED.
THE GREEN SPACE IS LOVELY, THE LITTLE HOMES ARE LOVELY.
AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE OTHER AVID OUTDOORS PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO APPRECIATE THAT SPACE NO MATTER, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A BIG HOUSE OR A LITTLE HOUSE. BUT HAVING THAT JUST THOSE THREE LOTS, I THINK IS CRUCIAL TO KEEPING, UM, CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THAT, THAT STREET.
ADDITIONALLY, I DON'T THINK IT'S A VERY SAFE AREA FOR WALKERS.
AND I WHEN I PICTURE SIX HOMES, I THINK THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO WALK THEIR DOGS.
IT'S ALREADY TONS OF DOG WALKERS.
IT'S A QUARTER MILE TO THAT BIKE TRAIL.
AND I'VE TRIED IT AND IT'S SCARY.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO LIGHTING THERE, SO I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S A GREAT SPOT FOR SIX HOMES.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WELL, I'LL JUST MAKE ONE COMMENT.
I THINK THE IDEA OF KEEPING THE THREE LOTS RIGHT THERE TEND TO FALL IN LINE WITH WHAT OUR VISION 2045 SAID WE WANT TO DO, AND THAT WAS RETENTION OF CHARACTER. SO, I THINK THAT SUPPORTS IT.
YEAH. GOOD. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
YOU'VE GOT TO KEEP IN MIND THE THREE LOTS WAS A SINGLE HOMESTEAD AT ONE TIME.
YEAH. EACH ONE OF THEM HAD RECENTLY AND THEY SPLIT IT UP.
RIGHT. IF YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE, SIR.
WILLIAM ZIELINSKI, 786 BARRINGTON DRIVE.
I THINK SOME GREAT POINTS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP BY OUR RESIDENTS HERE.
ONE, THIS DENSITY IS NOT GOING TO FIT IN AT ALL.
AS SHE SAID, ME AND MY WIFE AND HER NEIGHBORS, WE ALL WALK OUR DOGS DOWN TO THE SIMMONS TRAIL.
AND RIGHT NOW, EVERY DAY WE'RE HAVING TO PRETTY MUCH JUMP INTO THE DITCH.
WE KNOW WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET SIDEWALKS DUE TO THE DRAINAGE ISSUES IN THAT AREA.
IF WE ADD THAT MANY HOMES TO THAT AREA AND THAT MANY MORE CARS ALREADY ZOOMING DOWN WAY PAST THE SPEED LIMIT ON AMELIA ROAD, WE HAVE NO ENFORCEMENT OF WHAT I WOULD SAY.
I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PUT A POLICEMAN THERE EVERY DAY JUST TO TRY AND SLOW THAT TRAFFIC DOWN.
BUT IT'S I MEAN, I MOVED TO THIS AREA A YEAR AGO FOR THE CHARM OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, FOR THE ACCESS, SO I COULD TAKE MY BIKE AND RIDE IT TO THE BEACH AND GO SURFING.
AND ADDING SIX HOMES INTO THOSE LOTS IS JUST NOT GOING TO FIT IN.
IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE THE REASON I MOVED THERE INTO BARRINGTON ANY BETTER.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, MAKE IT WAY WORSE.
I MEAN, WE REALLY RIGHT NOW JUST LIVING IN THAT AREA, WE LOVE IT.
EVEN WITH THE AIRPORT THERE, IT CAN BE QUIET, BUT PUTTING THAT MANY MORE HOMES IN THERE AND THEN NOT REALLY DEFINING WHAT HOMES ARE GOING TO GO IN THERE ON THAT SMALL LOT, REALLY MAKES ME LIKE LEERY.
AND I AGAIN SAY THAT THE ADOPTION OF THAT PLAN IS THE WAY TO GO.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THANK YOU FOR COMING. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? YES, SIR. COME AHEAD.
JACK AMBER, 1003 BROOME STREET AND FERNANDINA.
I WANT TO START 2024 BY BEING MORE POSITIVE, GIVING YOU GUYS A COMPLIMENT, I THINK.
YOU GET IT THAT YOU GUYS HAVE STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE GIVEN SOME GREAT RECOMMENDATIONS AND YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS AND THE CHARACTER IN THAT, AND I THINK WE'RE OFF TO A GOOD START.
UH, WE JUST NEED TO KEEP THAT GOING FORWARD.
KEEP THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TRIED SO HARD AND MAINTAINED THROUGH THE YEARS.
UH, I THINK THAT THE PRESENTATION BY MISS BETH WAS A LITTLE BIT, JUST A LITTLE BIT DISINGENUOUS IN THAT THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? UH, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE BEING ASKED TO CHANGE TO
[00:50:01]
THE RLM THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE CONSIDERED A DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THEY'D HAVE TO PUT IN SIDEWALKS OTHER INFRASTRUCTURES WITH COSTS WHICH COST MONEY.THIS ALSO BRINGS UP THE POINT OF WHAT DO THESE HOUSES EVEN GOING TO LOOK LIKE, RIGHT? THE WORD TICKYTACK COMES TO MIND, AND SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW THAT TERM WHEN A DEVELOPMENT GOES IN AND ALL THE HOUSES LOOK ALIKE.
NOW, IF THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE CHARACTER, WHAT DOES? SO, I'M IN FAVOR OF, I'M WITH YOU GUYS, IS WHAT I WANT TO SAY.
AND IN KEEPING WITH THE CHARACTER, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, I THINK THAT'S THE WAY TO GO.
ANYONE ELSE? MARGARET, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK? SORRY.
SORRY, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
THAT'S IMPRESSIVE. IT REALLY IS.
THAT'S GREAT. MARGARET KIRKLAND, 1377 PLANTATION POINT DRIVE.
I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF CONSERVE NASSAU, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT THE STAFF ANALYSIS.
I'D LIKE TO SUPPORT THE COMMENTS THAT VANESSA MADE, WHICH I THOUGHT WERE RIGHT ON TARGET.
AND ALSO, LAURIE'S COMMENTS ALSO, AND I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON SOME OF THE POINTS THAT, THAT SHE MADE. UM, AS AN ORGANIZATION, WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT ANY DEVELOPMENT ON THIS PART OF THE ISLAND.
AND AS A RESULT OF THIS, WE'VE GOTTEN RID OF MOST OF THE CANOPY THAT WE HAD WHICH MANAGED OUR GROUNDWATER AND MANAGED OUR STORMWATER. WE'VE HAD FLOODING.
ACTUALLY, SOME OF THE SUBDIVISIONS HAVE CAUSED FLOODING.
IDA MAE SIMMONS ROAD, 14TH STREET, CRANE ISLAND AND SO ON.
AND WE HAVE DOCUMENTED HIGH GROUNDWATER LEVELS, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVEN'T REQUIRED THOSE IN EVERY CASE, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN 2010 WITH A MORE MODERATE LEVEL OF DENSITY AND A LOT MORE TREE CANOPY.
THIS IS A COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW.
I'VE HIGHLIGHTED THESE THREE PARCELS RIGHT HERE.
WE'VE GOT LAKESIDE, DUNES OF AMELIA.
EVEN THOUGH I HAVE CHOPPED OFF CRANE ISLAND.
BUT IT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE DENSITY, THE LACK OF TREE CANOPY THAT WE HAVE TO PROCESS ALL OF THE STORMWATER WE HAVE.
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER WE LIVE ON A BARRIER ISLAND AND THAT WE ARE FACING THE HAZARDS OF SEA LEVEL RISE, CLIMATE CHANGES AND SO ON, AND WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PROCESS OUR STORMWATER.
THIS IS AN IMPERVIOUS SURFACE MAP.
AGAIN, THESE ARE THESE THREE PARCELS RIGHT HERE.
I WOULD SAY THAT, AND THIS IS A BROADER VIEW GOING OVER TO THE BEACH.
UM, THIS DOESN'T SHOW ALL OF THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
THIS SOFTWARE DOES NOT PICK UP ON DRIVEWAYS AND SMALLER FEATURES LIKE THAT.
[00:55:01]
SO, IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN THIS.UM, IN TERMS OF POTENTIAL WETLANDS, THIS IS FROM OUR FRIEND, THE COUNTY APPRAISER'S OFFICE.
AND OF COURSE, WE KNOW THAT THAT USUALLY UNDERESTIMATES AND THAT THIS IS WHY WE ALWAYS NEED TO GET A PROFESSIONAL POTENTIAL WETLAND DELINEATION USING A DIFFERENT MODEL.
I WOULD THIS CONSIDERS BOTH ELEVATION AND SOIL TYPES.
AND I WOULD SAY THIS IS AN OVERESTIMATION.
SO, IT'S SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THERE.
THE SOILS HERE ON THESE PARCELS ARE LEON FINE SAND, WHICH IS VERY POORLY DRAINED AND IS CLASSIFIED AS HYDRIC. THEREFORE, WE DON'T FEEL THAT ANY DEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE APPROVED FOR NOT ONLY THESE PARCELS, BUT ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS SECTION.
FROM THE AIRPORT NORTH TO SADLER, FROM THE BEACH TO CRANE ISLAND, UNLESS WE HAVE SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTATION OF ALL OF THESE POINTS LISTED PROFESSIONAL WETLANDS DELINEATION, GROUNDWATER, SOIL SAMPLES AND THAT WE TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND THAT WE HAVE PROFESSIONAL PROJECTIONS FOR THE FUTURE, BECAUSE WHAT IS OKAY TODAY AND NEXT YEAR IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE OKAY IN FIVE YEARS, TEN YEARS OR.
20 YEARS AND WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AHEAD BECAUSE WHEN WE HAVE PROBLEMS, THEY ARE GOING TO BE HUGE LOSSES FOR THE RESIDENTS, HUGE COSTS FOR THE RESIDENTS, BUT THEY WILL ALSO BE HUGE COSTS FOR THE CITY AND THE COUNTY, AND WE NEED TO BE PLANNING ON THAT. AND I REALIZE THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A NICE MESH BETWEEN OUR LEGAL FRAMEWORK AND THIS REALITY, BUT WE HAVE TO GO THERE, AND WE HAVE TO BE THERE, AND WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO, YOU KNOW, JUST COVER OUR EYES AND HOPE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
WE KNOW IT'S HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.
SO, WE NEED THOSE PROFESSIONAL PROJECTIONS AS WELL FOR THE FUTURE SO THAT WE KNOW THAT.
SO, UM, AT A MINIMUM, I THINK DAPHNE'S ANALYSIS IS GOOD, BUT I WOULD I REALLY, WE FEEL, AND THIS IS NOT JUST FOR THIS AREA.
WE HAVE SAID PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING FOR, UM, THE EASTERN PART OF THE MAINLAND OF THE OF THE COUNTY BETWEEN THE AMELIA RIVER AND US 17, BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH OF US 200.
WE'RE OVER DEVELOPING CAUSING PROBLEMS, CAUSING OURSELVES PROBLEMS. SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING THESE THAT MARGARET JUST SAID NECESSARILY BUT IS IT POSSIBLE TO LEGALLY CODIFY THOSE KINDS OF PREREQUISITES, THOSE KINDS OF ANALYSIS, YOU KNOW, RULES, PRINCIPLES WHEN YOU I GUESS I HATE TO GIVE THIS ANSWER.
IT DEPENDS. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY DEVELOPMENT.
SO, IS THERE YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY BUILDS ONE HOUSE OR TWO HOUSES, WHAT POINT IS IT TRIGGERED? OKAY. BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT COULD BE REASONABLE.
AND YOU CAN PASS LEGISLATION THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO DO THAT TO BUILD ONE HOUSE.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT NICE, BUT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU SHOULD.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, IS IT DEPENDS ON WHAT WE MEAN BY DEVELOPMENT.
IT CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE CAN CONSIDER OUT OF THE BOX.
IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE DISCUSSED.
ALL RIGHT, NICK, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION FOR TAMMY.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO LEAVE. RIGHT, TAMMY I DO, SO, YEAH.
QUESTIONS. SO, THE APPLICANT IS ASKING FOR A CERTAIN LAND USE AND ZONING AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDED.
A DIFFERENT LAND USE AND ZONING.
YES. SO, IS IT UP TO THE APPLICANT TO SAY I WANT TO PULL OUT IF I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU'RE GIVING ME OR I MEAN, WHAT'S THE PROCESS OF US LEGISLATING THEIR ZONING THEY DIDN'T ASK FOR, RIGHT? THAT'S A VERY, VERY GOOD QUESTION.
MY MAY I GIVE MY THOUGHTS? MY, MY THOUGHTS ARE THAT IT'S BASICALLY A TWO-STEP PROCESS IS WE NEED TO EITHER UP OR DOWN THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT.
THEN DEPENDING ON WHAT THAT RULING IS, WHAT WE WHAT WE DECIDE, THEN WE CONSIDER AND WHAT STAFF IS
[01:00:09]
PROPOSING. AND DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH, I THINK THAT FOR THIS BOARD, UM, IT'S GOING TO THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IF IT GOES AND IT WILL GO TO THE CITY COMMISSION, IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING ON THE ZONING PART, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE ALL ABOUT EVIDENCE, COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AND THE DECISION AND DELIBERATIONS, PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT'S AT THE HEARING.UM, SO, YEAH, FOR YOUR PURPOSES, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO ARTICULATE YOUR FINDINGS OF FACT AND SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE COMP PLAN BECAUSE OF THIS, AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THAT, OR STAFF IS CORRECT BECAUSE OF THIS AND THAT.
YOU CAN DO THAT IF YOU WISH, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
EVERYBODY HAS BEEN HEARD THAT WISH TO BE HEARD.
AND THERE MAY BE A FEW MORE SPEAKERS, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
AND SO, IT'S REALLY UP TO YOU ALL.
I DO NOT THINK THAT DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS AT THE CITY COMMISSION AND THE QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, THAT NOT AGREEING WITH AN APPLICANT IF STAFF DISAGREES, THEY GAVE THEIR PROFESSIONAL OPINION THAT WE'RE DOING ANYTHING INAPPROPRIATE.
OKAY. SO, THEY CAN ASK, AND WE CAN SAY NO, RIGHT.
OR WE CAN SAY NO, YOU CAN HAVE FEWER.
OKAY. LET ME TAKE THAT ONE STEP.
YOU COULD WE MAKE A MOTION AGAINST THE PAB REQUEST? AS WRITTEN AND DENY IT BUT OFFER AN ALTERNATE MOTION WITH THE SPECIFICATIONS RECOMMENDED. CLEANER.
TYING THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST.
DENYING MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST FOR RLM.
ARTICULATE THE FLUME ZONING AND INSTEAD ASSIGN.
WE RECOMMEND ASSIGNING A LAND USE CATEGORY OF AND A ZONING CATEGORY OF.
WOULD THAT BE A SEPARATE MOTION? NO, I THINK YOU CAN DO IT TOGETHER.
VOTE. YEAH. MAKE A MOTION AND APPROVE.
YEAH. THINK THAT SENDS A CLEAR MESSAGE IN MY OPINION.
REMEMBER IT'S A RECOMMENDATION.
ALL RIGHT. ANY, UH, ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE I LEAVE? I HAVE ANOTHER MEETING. IT'S NOT LIKE TO GO HAVE BEERS OR WHATEVER.
THANK YOU. WHERE SHOULD WE MEET YOU? YEAH, ACROSS THE STREET.
IS YOUR LIGHT STILL ON? DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? NO, NO, NO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO I HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.
OPEN. CORRECT. WHAT'S THAT? PUBLIC HEARING TO A LOCAL? YES. I'LL JUST ASK ONE MORE TIME.
ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO COME BEFORE US AND GIVE THEIR COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. HEARING NONE.
WE WILL MOVE ON TO BOARD DISCUSSION.
I WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH ONE OF US MAKING A MOTION TO DENY THE PAB REQUEST AS WRITTEN.
TAKE A VOTE ON THAT AND THEN RE-OFFER AN ALTERNATE.
SO, DO I HEAR A MOTION? AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. ALSO, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO DENY PAB CASE 2023-0043 DATED DECEMBER 13TH, 2023, AS WRITTEN.
DO I HEAR A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. FROM RICHARD, RIGHT.
DISCUSSION? WELL, I'M LOOKING AT WHAT THEY'RE SUGGESTING HERE.
SO, YOU WERE DENYING THE VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION AND A ZONED MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL MDR AND USE CATEGORY AND A RESIDENTIAL LOW MEDIUM FLUME ZONING DISTRICT FOR THE THREE PARCELS.
I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR. THAT'S THE ENTIRE.
WHAT IS THE POINT? GOOD POINT TO CLARIFY THAT.
ALL RIGHT. OKAY. DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT.
DOES YOUR SECOND STILL STAND? IT DOES. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALL RIGHT. NOW I NEED ANOTHER MOTION TO.
I'LL LET YOU MAKE THE SECOND MOTION.
[01:05:03]
ALL RIGHT.I MOVE TO APPROVE A VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION ASSIGNMENT FOR THIS PROPERTY FOR A R-1 ZONING DISTRICT AND A LOW-DENSITY RESIDENTIAL FLUME CATEGORY FOR THE THREE PARCELS ON KENNETH COURT AND THE REST OF THE OTHER CASE.
NUMBER 2023-0043 AS PRESENTED.
AND WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED WAS NOT SUFFICIENTLY COMPLIANT.
OKAY, JUST ADD THE DATE TO IT.
JUST WHAT? TODAY'S DATE? YOUR PROPOSAL? YEAH. WHY? WE'RE ON ME. WELL, I CAN OKAY.
DECEMBER THE 13TH, 2023, RIGHT? NOT 24.
DO I HEAR A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND.
ALL RIGHT, UH, ANY DISCUSSION I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS, MADAM CHAIR? I'M STRUGGLING WITH THIS ONE BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE THE SOUTH SIDE OF KENNETH COURT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE NORTH SIDE.
I DON'T THINK PLACING SINGLE FAMILY NEXT TO WHAT'S THERE IS THE BEST IDEA.
I DON'T REALLY HAVE A BETTER ALTERNATIVE.
BUT ONCE AGAIN, IF WE WERE DOING PUDS FOR SMALLER PROPERTY SIZES, WE COULD LEGISLATE WHAT GOES ON HERE AND EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW WHAT THE HOUSE SIZE IS, WHAT THE OPEN SPACE COMPONENT WOULD BE.
SO, WE WOULD ALL WALK OUT OF HERE INFORMED, AS OPPOSED TO GUESSING WHAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT DO.
I'M GOING TO BE AGAINST IT NO MATTER ALL THE WAY AROUND.
BUT I DO THINK OUR LATER DISCUSSION ABOUT PUDS ONCE AGAIN WOULD REALLY DRIVE THIS HOME, BECAUSE EVERYBODY HERE WOULD KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING TO GO INTO THE PROJECT. BUT WHILE BEFORE WE VOTED, AND I THINK THAT MEANS A LOT SO PEOPLE CAN RESPOND TO THAT.
OKAY. I MEAN, WE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO IS MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, YOU KNOW, BASED ON WHAT THEIR SUGGESTED ZONING AND LAND USE PLAN IS, THAT JUST MEANS, YOU KNOW, MORE HOUSES, RESIDENTIAL ON SMALLER LOTS.
IT WOULD GIVE SOMEONE FLEXIBILITY TO INTRODUCE OTHER LAND USES.
THEY MAY HAVE A WORK PRODUCT THEY WANT TO DO.
I, I DON'T SEE WHERE FLEXIBILITY IS A BAD THING, AND THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING WITH IT.
AND I'M MORE IN LINE WITH THE CHANGE THAT WAS SUGGESTED.
OKAY. AND I WOULD SUPPORT THAT.
I THINK WE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD DOES HAVE A CERTAIN PERSONALITY.
BARB, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO SAY? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, WE'VE HAD A MOTION MADE, RECOMMENDATION TO SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF.
WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE TO SUPPORT THE NEW ZONING AND LAND USE.
THE PROPOSED NEW ALTERNATE LAND USE AND YES DESIGNATION.
YES, YOU'RE ABOUT TO TAKE A VOTE.
OKAY. UM, IF YOU IF TAYLOR, WOULD YOU PLEASE REFLECT THE VOTE OF THE BOARD IN THIS MATTER? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THAT ONE? WE'RE DONE. OKAY.
UM, UNDER ITEM FIVE, NEW BUSINESS.
IS THERE ANY NEW BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD? NO NEW BUSINESS.
WE HAVE A LOT OF BUSINESS THAT'S HANGING OUT THERE.
WE'VE NOT HEARD MUCH ABOUT IT.
WELL, LET'S GO INTO BOARD BUSINESS AND LET US TALK ABOUT IT.
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
THERE YOU GO. OKAY, I'M GOING TO DO ANYTHING BOARD, BOARD BUSINESS.WE'RE GOING TO GET TO 6.1 IN JUST A MINUTE.
BUT IF THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, BOARD BUSINESS YOU'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT.
MARK. NO, I'M JUST CURIOUS ON WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SOME PROPOSALS ON SOME CHANGES IN ZONING THE 25-FOOT LOT AND ALL THAT KIND OF.
WE'RE GOING TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT IN OUR JANUARY MEETING.
IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
YEAH. OKAY. I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHEN THAT'S COMING BACK.
[01:10:07]
SO, IF IT PLEASE THE BOARD WE COULD GO AHEAD AND UNDER 6.1 HAVE DISCUSSION ABOUT MINIMUM ACREAGE REQUIREMENTS TO ESTABLISH A FUND. YEAH, I DEFINITELY SUPPORT THE IDEA.WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME CONSIDERATIONS THAT I THINK WE'VE GOT TO TAKE.
AND IN FACT, BETH, WHO'S THE LEGAL COUNSEL SUPPORTING THE PREVIOUS ONE, WE HAD A DISCUSSION TODAY AND SOME PARTS OF ANOTHER COUNTY. THERE IS THE POINT NOW WHERE ANY REZONING IS AUTOMATICALLY A PUD PERIOD.
SO, IT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
IT'S ANOTHER ALTERNATE THAT'S ST.
JOHN'S COUNTY. SO AT LEAST PART OF THAT COUNTY IS STARTING TO THINK.
AND YOU MAY HAVE ALREADY TRIPPED OVER ONE OF THESE JUST ALONG THE WAY.
I HAVEN'T SEEN IT MANDATED THAT WAY, BUT IT'S SAYING NOW YOU WANT TO REZONE.
FINE. IT'S GOING TO BE A PUD PERIOD.
WELL, IT'S JUST THAT WE SEEM TO BE STICKING THE SAME SINGLE-FAMILY LOTS EVERYWHERE.
AND THERE'S NO DESIGN CONSIDERATION THAT EVERY NOTHING IS UNIQUE.
AND IF WE DO A PUD, WE AT LEAST HAVE THE, THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTRODUCE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
RIGHT. WE CAN BUFFER WHERE WE NEED TO BUFFER.
WE CAN AGGREGATE UNITS WHERE WE SHOULD AGGREGATE THEM INSTEAD OF JUST PUTTING RECTANGLES ON LOTS.
WELL, COULD YOU TAKE A MINUTE AND JUST TELL US WHY? CHANGING THE PUD REQUIREMENTS AS WE NOW HAVE IT WOULD BE SURE RIGHT NOW THE ACREAGE REQUIREMENT IS FIVE ACRES. I MEAN, WE'RE JUST KIND OF JUMPED INTO PUD AND ALL OF A SUDDEN.
BUT WHY. WELL, RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY WE HAVE A MINIMUM SIZE OF WHAT, FIVE ACRES.
FIVE ACRES. EXCEPT THERE IS AN EXCEPTION.
YEAH. SO AFFORDABLE HOUSING IF IT'S INTRODUCED RIGHT.
IF THERE'S CORRECT, WE HAVE AN EXCEPTION TO OUR MINIMUM ACREAGE OF FIVE ACRES.
BUT THAT MIGHT BE A POINT TO BRIDGE OFF TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.
BECAUSE IF YOU'VE GOT THAT ONE EXCLUSION THAT'S ALREADY IN THE LCD.
BUT WHY DO WE WANT TO DO A PUTT ANYWAY? WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S PART OF WHAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OKAY.
WELL, YEAH. YEAH, I MEAN I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE AND YOU CAN SCALE THIS DOWN.
FOR EXAMPLE, HICKORY RIDGE ON 13TH STREET, THAT'S FIVE ACRES.
AND BARB IS, I UNDERSTAND, GOING TO BE ANY RESIDENT BEFORE TOO LONG.
BUT WHAT THAT ONE DID IS THAT IT ALLOWED EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH SOUNDS AWFULLY HIGH, BUT IT ALLOWED IT TO ALL BE SINGLE FAMILY, WITH EXCEPTION OF THREE DUPLEXES. AND IT ALSO GENERATED 40% OPEN SPACE.
AND SO, YOU SITED THOSE AROUND TREES, YOU SITED THOSE AROUND WHERE YOU WANT THE OPEN SPACE TO BE.
EVERYBODY NOW BACKS UP TO OPEN SPACE.
NO ONE BACKS UP TO EACH OTHER AND THERE'S ADEQUATE PARKING.
AND THERE'S ACTUALLY VERY LITTLE TRAFFIC ISSUES WHATSOEVER.
AND EVEN WITH THE HIGHER DENSITY DEVELOPMENT.
SO, IF YOU SCALE THAT DOWN TO TWO ACRES, YOU MAY NOT HAVE 40 UNITS, BUT YOU MAY HAVE 16 TO 20.
AND SOME PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE IN A SMALLER NEIGHBORHOOD.
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY WANT A BIGGER ONE.
REALLY. SO, TWO ACRES IS THIS ONE I THINK WAS ONE ACRE, THE ONE WE JUST HEARD.
YEP. AND YOU COULD HAVE DONE SOME THINGS UNIQUE, BUT YOU GOT TO WALK BEFORE YOU COULD RUN.
THAT'S WHAT I THINK I'D LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER, PLEASE.
I HAVEN'T FOUND ONE, BUT I DID LOOK IN A PLACE CALLED PALM BAY, FLORIDA, DOWN THE ROAD.
SO AGAIN, WE MAY WANT TO PERSONALIZE THAT, BUT WE ALSO MAY WANT TO ADD FOUR.
THEY HAVE THEY DEFINE WHAT A SPUD IS IN THEIR SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES.
SO, THERE'S NOT A REASON WE CAN'T DO THE SAME THING.
HOW MANY ACRES WOULD THAT BE THEIRS.
LET ME SEE IF WE CAN SPECIFY IT.
[01:15:01]
I THINK I HAVE TO GO TO A DIFFERENT PROGRAM.SO LET ME LET ME GO TO LET ME GO TO NUMBER BE WENT TO THE STATE OF UTAH HAS ALSO THEY EXPECTED AT THE STATE LEVEL, AND THEY'VE GOT ONE.
LET'S SEE IF I'VE GOT IT WITH ME.
THEY DID IDENTIFY THE EQUIVALENT OF WHAT I WOULD CALL A SPUD, BUT THEY DID NOT.
THEY, THEY HAD A SLOW DENSITY AND A HIGH-DENSITY PUD, BUT THEY KEPT IT AT FIVE ACRES.
THEY DIDN'T, BUT THEY DID IDENTIFY.
YOU COULD HAVE A LOW-DENSITY PUD, ALMOST A SQUARE.
YEAH, BUT THEY DIDN'T ADDRESS, THEY STUCK WITH FIVE ACRES AS A MINIMUM.
THAT SEEMED TO BE THE COMMON THREAD THERE.
SO. WELL, I'VE GOT LIKE JACKS BEACH HAS NO MINIMUM ACREAGE.
NEW SMYRNA BEACH IS TWO ACRES OR THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE IF YOU'RE INTERNAL TO THE CITY.
OKAY. YOU KNOW, THERE'S CITY OF ST.
WHENEVER I TRIED TO CALL THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE ACREAGE REALLY WAS.
BUT, UM, I THINK THERE'S EXAMPLES THAT ARE ALL OVER THE GAMUT.
BUT IT IS SOMETHING WE COULD PICK UP BEST PRACTICES FROM LOOKING AROUND.
YOU KNOW, WE TALK IN OUR IN OUR CODES AND IN OUR PLANS ABOUT ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS ALL THE TIME, BUT WE'RE NEVER ALLOWED TO ASK A DEVELOPER ABOUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE. UM, AND THIS, IF I'M CORRECT, GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE RIGHT TO SAY, SHOW IT TO US.
WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE 12 TOWNHOUSES THAT ARE GOING TO GO INTO SADLER? I REMEMBER BARB SAID, WELL, BECAUSE I WAS NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.
SHE SAID, WELL, MAYBE THEY'LL LOOK LIKE THE TOWNHOMES IN AMELIA PARK.
SO, IF IT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAFEGUARD THE CHARACTER OF NEIGHBORHOODS, DETERMINE, UM, ASPECTS OF BUILDING THAT WOULD MAKE OUR CITY MORE CHARMING, MORE NEIGHBORLY, MORE BEAUTIFUL, AND THAT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE INPUT INTO THAT.
WELL, UNDER FLORIDA LAW, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE AN HOA WITH A PUTNAM.
I JUST WANT TO ADD INTO YOUR POINT, MR. DOSTER, ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN REGULATIONS.
SO, I DO WANT TO REMIND THE BOARD THAT THERE IS, UM, A FLORIDA STATUTE THAT PROHIBITS US FROM, UH, MANDATING WHAT THE ACTUAL PROJECT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
WE CAN'T DO THAT UNLESS THEY ARE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, SO WE WOULD EVEN WITHIN A PUD, WE CAN'T REGULATE HOW IT'S GOING TO LOOK ARCHITECTURALLY.
BUT THE PUTT DOES ALLOW US TO DO IS ENCOURAGE DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES AND PATTERNS OF.
DEVELOPMENT THAT COULD BE MORE COMPLEMENTARY AND FLEXIBLE.
SO, YOU DO HAVE THAT ASPECT OF CONTROL IN THE WAY THAT THE DEVELOPMENT LOOKS AS A WHOLE.
BUT YOU CAN DEFINE WHAT THE SPECIFIC LOT LAYOUT IS GOING TO BE.
CORRECT. SO, YOU KNOW WHAT THE FOOTPRINT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
EXACTLY. SO, YOU CAN DEAL WITH IN TERMS OF DRAINAGE AND LAKES AND REC CORRECT.
IT'S JUST THE ACTUAL ARCHITECTURAL PIECE, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT YOU WERE GETTING AT.
MR. DOSTER, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
WE ARE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO REGULATE THAT AS A LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. YEAH, I DIDN'T EITHER.
SO, MY POINT IS, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY BELONG.
I MEAN, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE CONCEIVED AS A WHOLE.
IS AT THE RISK OF OFFENDING A LOT OF PEOPLE.
IS MORE ENTICING, MORE ATTRACTIVE THAN THE TOWNHOMES OVER HERE, IN MY OPINION.
SO. SO SOMEHOW THAT WAS DETERMINED, RIGHT? BUT PURELY BY THE DEVELOPER, EXACTLY WHAT O SELL.
[01:20:01]
RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT.SO, I MEAN, JUST BECAUSE IT ANNOYS ME ON WHAT'S PRETTY.
OH, BUT YOU CAN BUT THAT'S ANOTHER THAT'S A SUBJECT FOR ANOTHER DAY.
YOU KNOW, SO MARGARET AND LARRY SHOW UP HERE ALMOST EVERY WEEK, RIGHT? AND THEY ARE HERE BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT.
WHAT? SO HOW DO WE CARE? HOW DO WE HOW DO WE FIND PEOPLE LIKE THEM WHO CARE AS MUCH ABOUT THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT AS THEY CARE ABOUT THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT? SO, I DO CARE ABOUT.
THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT BECOMES THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT.
WE NEED TO HAVE IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DISCUSSION, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S ON THE RECORD.
WE GO TO A PODIUM, THAT KIND OF THING.
OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION, NICK.
I USED TO LIKE I WAS LIKE, GO AHEAD, MARK.
UM, I'M LOOKING AT HICKORY RIDGE, AND THE ONE THING I'M SEEING HERE WITH WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT ARE THEY, 36-FOOT LOTS THERE.
OKAY. HOWEVER, AND I DON'T LIKE 36 FOOT LOTS I'LL SAY THAT UP FRONT.
HOWEVER, WHAT I'M SEEING THERE IS A LOT OF OPEN SPACE.
SO, WHERE YOU'RE NOT EXCEEDING THAT DENSITY, BUT YOU'RE GAINING MORE OPEN SPACE.
WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? I WOULD AGREE, OKAY.
I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT POINT THAT YOU'RE NOT WHEN YOU SHRINK THE RECTANGLE AND YOU MAKE THEM GO UP TWO STORIES SOMETIMES AND OR GET SMALLER HOUSES, YOU HAVE MORE OPEN SPACE OPPORTUNITIES.
RIGHT? OKAY, BARB, THERE IS A LOT OF GREEN SPACE.
WELL, THERE IS I'M LOOKING AT THE AREA RIGHT NOW, AND ONE OF THE POINTS I WANTED TO MAKE, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE AT SOME POINT WE MIGHT HAVE A DISCUSSION ON 50-FOOT LOTS IN HERE AND IT COULD BE COMING.
JUST BE AWARE. BUT IN ANY CASE, I JUST WANT TO SAY YOU DO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY AND YOU'RE GIVING UP SOMETHING, BUT YOU ALSO GAIN OTHER AMENITIES AND BENEFITS.
SO, AT WHAT POINT ON A PUTT DO YOU GET TO A POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS IN THE SENSE OF YOU NEED TWO TYPES OF STRUCTURES, TWO PHYSICAL STYLES? WELL, I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE THAT'LL BE UP TO THE OWNER AND DEVELOPER TO FIGURE OUT.
I MEAN, WE'RE NOT SOLVING THEIR PROBLEM FOR THEM, BUT HE'S STILL GOT TO DEFINE WHAT THOSE STYLES.
AND THEY INTRODUCE DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES OR DIFFERENT PRODUCTS OR EVEN MIXED USES THAT SATISFY THE FINANCIAL ASPECT OF IT, BUT STILL MEET WHAT WE WANT FOR OPEN SPACE OR BUFFERS. BUT THEN DO WE HAVE ANY SAY IN IT? I MEAN, OTHER THAN JUST SAYING, OH, HERE IT IS.
WELL, OKAY, YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL THE PUD IS APPROVED.
RIGHT. SO, YOU THE PUD IS GOING TO DEFINE A LAYOUT RUNNING YOUR OWN ZONING.
YEAH. BECAUSE IT REPLACES OTHER ALL OTHER IT OVERRIDES THE LDC.
AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE I GUESS THE COMP PLAN.
IT STILL FALLS WITHIN. IT STILL MEETS THE COMP PLAN.
YEAH. UNDER MOST PUDS HAVE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.
YEAH. THEY DO OKAY TO MAINTAIN WHATEVER THOSE RULES ARE THAT THEY.
I WAS ADVISED BY TAMMY'S OFFICE TODAY.
THAT IS NOT A NOT A REQUIREMENT.
SOME STATES IT IS BUT NOT IN FLORIDA BECAUSE THERE'S AN ADDED COST THERE.
IT'S JUST EVERYONE WANTS TO MOVE THEIR YARD BY THEMSELVES EITHER.
WELL, BUT THAT'S THE PERSONALITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO.
THEY COULD BE THAT TRUE IF THAT.
SO, I THINK UNDER A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION YOU WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE THOSE THINGS TAKEN CARE OF.
SO, THAT'S ANOTHER CONSIDERATION THAT YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT THAT IN OKAYING A PUD THAT AREA IS GOING TO BE MAINTAINED AS PART OF THAT DEFINED COMMUNITY, BUT ONLY IF THEY HAVE AN HOA.
WHAT WE SAID, MOST OF THEM HAVE HOMES.
WHAT'S THE ANSWER I GOT? PAY ATTENTION.
ALL RIGHT, SO WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD DISCUSSION.
I THINK DAPHNE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MAYBE SOME DIRECTION FROM THE BOARD AS TO MAYBE WHAT TO BRING BACK TO US FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION AT A AT ANOTHER MEETING.
[01:25:01]
I'M SEEING NO ACRE.I MEAN, I WOULD THINK THAT IN ORDER TO YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME MINIMUM SIZE.
WOULD YOU. WHAT'S YOUR I MEAN, THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING YOU SAID TWO ACRES STARTING POINT.
WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY 2 TO 3 ACRES, MAYBE IN THAT RANGE.
WHATEVER. IT'D BE NICE TO SEE THE IMPACT WE WOULD HAVE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING? I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THEM SIDE BY SIDE.
THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE WITH THIS MANY HOUSES.
YEAH. IS THAT MORE CONTROL OR ARE YOU CONTROLLING A LARGER AREA? I DON'T KNOW, BUT THERE'S A SET OF, THERE'S A BASKET FULL OF, OF DRIVERS THAT GO INTO THAT DECISION PROCESS.
IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THAT THEN YOU CAN START TO LOOK AT THOSE DRIVERS.
HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO WHAT'S THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF ACRES? WE LOOK AT THE ANNEXATIONS EVEN WE HAVE NOT MANY OF THEM ARE MORE THAN TWO ACRES.
WHAT'S AVAILABLE OUT THERE? WHAT'S SO? WE MAY GET THREE ACRES.
WE MAY NEVER SEE ONE ANYWAY, SO.
RIGHT. YEAH. SO. BUT I THINK STAFF CAN TELL US WHAT THEY SEE.
THEY, THEY MAY SEE OTHER THINGS THAN WHAT WE SEE.
THE POSITIVE IS BY GOING TO SOMETHING LESS THAN FIVE ACRES, YOU PUT MORE CONTROL OVER WHAT THE FOOTPRINT LOOKS LIKE, AT LEAST THE BASIC LAYOUT OF SO IT IN THAT THE DOWNSIDE IS IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO INCREASE DENSITY.
IT'LL STILL MEET THE COMP WILL NOT INCREASE DENSITY.
YOU STILL HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
WHAT THAT ALLOWS IS THE DENSITY.
IT WILL IN NO WAY INCREASE THE DENSITY POINT.
RICHARD WOULD THIS TO GIVE US NOT SURE HOW TO ARTICULATE THIS, BUT IF SO.
SO, IF WE DID SO IF IT'S A SMALL AMOUNT OF LAND LESS THAN TWO ACRES, WOULDN'T WE ANNEX LAND IF MISS MOORE HAD COME HERE AND, YOU KNOW, THE RULES WERE THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY IS A PUD.
YOU KNOW THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE DISCUSSION.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF HER CLIENTS WANT TO DO THAT OR NOT, BUT WOULD THAT GIVE US SOME FLEXIBILITY IN ANNEXING PROPERTY TO LEVERAGE SOME CONTROL OVER ANNEXED LAND? AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO YOUR POINTS THERE THE WHOLE POINT OF A PUD.
AND ONE OF THOSE PUBLIC BENEFITS COULD BE ELIMINATION OF A NON-CONFORMING USE, PER SE.
SO, IF WE'RE ANNEXING IN A PARCEL THAT'S COMMERCIAL, THAT'S NON-CONFORMING, AND IT WOULD LIKE TO REDEVELOP IN SOME WAY, HAVING THAT PUTT ALLOWANCE AND ELIMINATION OF THOSE NON-CONFORMING USES COULD BE A HUGE BENEFIT IN THE FUTURE.
AND THEN IT ALSO PROVIDES FOR A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY.
SO, YOU COULD HAVE A LOT MORE CONTROL IN IN YOUR OVERALL DEVELOPMENT IF WE WERE TO REDUCE IT.
THAT NUMBER, I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE I'D HAVE TO DO SOME ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS ON IT, BUT, UM, SOMETHING LESS THAN FIVE ACRES MAY PROVIDE THOSE KINDS OF BENEFITS FOR WE HAVE IN THE LAND. RIGHT.
AND THAT'S GOING BACK TO IT MAYBE AS EARLY AS SEPTEMBER THE 5TH, 20, 2006.
AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY THAT NUMBER WAS DERIVED.
HOW? WE DON'T KNOW. MAYBE THERE'S SOMEBODY AROUND WE STILL REMEMBER.
MAYBE THAT'S A STARTING POINT.
WE MAYBE WE SAY, OKAY, IT CAN'T BE TWO, BUT IT CAN BE THREE.
AND DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR YOU TO DO THAT WORK AND HAVE TO LOOK THROUGH THAT MANY POTENTIAL APPLICATIONS? BUT THEY WOULD YOU KNOW; THE FEE IS SIGNIFICANT.
DOES THAT GIVE YOU SOME GUIDELINES? YES. THANK YOU.
WOULD YOU ALSO BE ABLE TO TELL US IN YOUR ANALYSIS HOW MANY PARCELS THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO, TO DETERMINE WOULD FIT THAT CATEGORY UNDER TWO ACRES? SURE. I CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
I'VE BEEN ON ZONING AND LAND USE FOR THAT AREA.
YEAH. IF WE ADD A GRID, WE HAVE TO GIVE IT A ZONING AND LAND USE.
SO THAT WOULD DETERMINE THE NUMBER OF PARCELS LIKE TONIGHT.
[01:30:04]
YOU HAD ONE. WE HAD A DIFFERENCE OF WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE TO BE BUILT THERE DENSITY WISE.ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO, THE PARCELS ALREADY ARE ONE OUT THERE AND THEY WANT TO DO A PUTT ON IT.
SO THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE NUMBER OF UNITS UNDER OUR ONE.
IT'S MY POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE.
IT REALLY DOES GIVE US SOME FLEXIBILITY AND VISIBILITY THAT WE DON'T HAVE RIGHT NOW.
THIS IS PUD R-1 BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.
BUT THE OVERLAY NOW IS THE PUD.
YOU LEAVE THE FLUME AND THEN THE OVERLAY IS THE PUTT FOR THE ZONING OKAY.
YEAH. IT'S A ZONING OVERLAY IS WHAT PD IS BECAUSE THE PUD IS A ZONING OVERLAY.
THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL AN OVERLAY DISTRICT OKAY.
SO THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS OKAY.
ALL RIGHT. SO, YOU'VE GOT SOME, JUST A DEFINITION.
THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR FOR FURTHERING THAT CONVERSATION.
ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS, UM, THAT I'D LIKE TO JUST DISCUSS WITH THE BOARD.
UM, AND THESE ARE MORE ADMINISTRATIVE.
SOME THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE AND SEE WHAT YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THEM.
THERE WAS A MOMENT OF EMBARRASSMENT FOR ME PERSONALLY, MAINLY BECAUSE I'M ON THIS BOARD THAT UNFORTUNATELY, ONE OF OUR CITY COMMISSIONERS FOUND IN THE STAFF REPORT FOR THE OCTOBER 11TH.
IT WAS A RESIDENTIAL ANNEXATION AND RECOMMENDATION FOR ZONING AND FLUME.
UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE POLICY REFERENCE, IT ALSO GOT MIXED IN THEIR REFERENCES OF COMMERCIAL AND THIS THERE WAS NOTHING COMMERCIAL ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS POINTED OUT AND IT WAS OBVIOUSLY A MISTAKE.
STAFF HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF ADDRESSING THAT.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR PACKET TODAY FOR THE CASE THAT WE'VE JUST LOOKED AT, YOU'LL SEE THAT UNDER THE SECTION WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE VARIOUS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE POLICIES, THEY'VE ACTUALLY INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING THE NUMBER, THEY'VE ACTUALLY DEFINED IT SAYING, OKAY, GROWTH MANAGEMENT OBJECTIVE 1.01.02 OF EACH.
I'VE TALKED TO DAPHNE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHE'S GOING TO LOOK AT, BUT I'VE ASKED HER TO JUST LET ME KNOW IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT THING TO ACTUALLY PUT WHAT THOSE OBJECTIVE IS, SORT OF A CUT AND PASTE TO SAY, FOR INSTANCE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, NO, EXCUSE ME, THE COMP PLAN UNDER GROWTH MANAGEMENT OBJECTIVE 1.02 UNDER GROWTH MANAGEMENT, IT REALLY DEFINES THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS.
ONE IS THE PACKET IS REALLY THE DOCUMENT OF THE DECISION THAT THIS BOARD MAKES AND MONTHS YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.
I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT AND HAVE IT AS A FULLY FLESHED OUT SO THAT WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS THAT HELPED US MAKE DECISIONS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
AND BY ACTUALLY IDENTIFYING AND POSTING IN HERE WHAT OBJECTIVE 1.02 IS IN THE POLICY, 1.2.02 AND 10203 ARE I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE THAT MUCH MORE WORK.
BUT THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS THAT I KNOW THAT OUR CITY COMMISSIONERS HAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF WORK WHEN THEY GO THROUGH THEIR AGENDA AND PREPARE FOR THESE MEETINGS, AND NOT THAT THEY WOULDN'T BUT I'M TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO HELP THEM SEE WHY WE VOTED A CERTAIN WAY.
AND IF THE ACTUAL DEFINITION OF OBJECTIVE 1.02.03 IS ACTUALLY SPELLED OUT THERE, THAT IT'S LESS CONFUSION, IT'S VERY SPECIFIC.
[01:35:02]
AND I THINK THAT THEY MAY HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.SO, I'VE ASKED DAPHNE IF SHE WOULD CONSIDER THAT AND HER FUTURE EVALUATIONS.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, I MEAN, UNLESS THERE'S SOME BIG OBJECTION FROM THAT, I THINK CLARITY IS ALWAYS THE BETTER WAY TO GO. CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT IS SOMETHING I THINK WE ALL AGREE IS IMPORTANT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW I MISSED IT, BUT APPARENTLY ALL OF US MISSED IT BECAUSE IT REALLY DIDN'T COME UP.
SO, WE'RE GOING TO DO BETTER ON SOME OF THE DETAILS.
AND I KNOW DAPHNE AND KELLY ARE COMMITTED TO HELPING US.
I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US ALSO.
WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING? CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? SURE.
I NOTICED THAT I THINK IN THE APPLICATION THERE WAS A LOT OF OVER TYPED.
DID ANYONE ELSE GET THAT, TOO? I DID. YOU DID, TOO? OKAY. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WAS SO.
IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO READ THAT PORTION OF THE.
YEAH, YEAH. SO, CLARIFY, MR. BENNETT WHAT IS OVER TYPE? WELL, YOU HAVE LIKE THE APPLICATION.
IT'S LIKE SOMEBODY TYPED ALL OVER THE PAGE.
SO, IT WAS DISTORTED EVERYTHING.
SO, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS ME BECAUSE OF THE FORMATTING ISSUE OR GOOGLE.
OKAY. IT MAY BE AN ISSUE WITH THE SYSTEM, BUT I'LL LOOK INTO THAT.
YES. AND IT SHOWS ON OUR SIDE AS, AS GOOD.
SO, IT MUST BE SOMETHING WITH THE SYSTEM AFTER IT'S PUBLISHED A NOVEL.
AGAIN, TO FURTHER TALKING ABOUT CLARIFICATION.
AND I KNOW STAFF KNOWS THESE, THESE THINGS, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DO.
AND THAT GETS BACK TO AND AGAIN I'M LOOKING AT UNDER SECTION THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, FOR INSTANCE, POLICY 1.0202, IT SAYS APPROVAL OF ALL DEVELOPMENT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF ADEQUATE LEVELS OF SERVICE FOR ALL FACILITIES AND SERVICES THAT ARE SUBJECT TO CONCURRENCY.
NOW, CONCURRENCY IS MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH WATER AND SEWER FACILITIES TO BE ABLE TO EXPAND INTO THIS ANNEX CONCURRENCY KIND OF ALL WENT AWAY, DIDN'T IT? YEAH. I MEAN, ONE TIME IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT CAUSE THAT WOULD ALSO GET INTO FIRE RESCUE.
YEAH. WELL, IT'S ALL, IT'S PRIMARY SERVICES.
AND OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, IT STATES THAT THE FOLLOWING FACILITY THIS IS 7.0403 FACILITIES SUBJECT TO CONCURRENCY. THE FOLLOWING FACILITIES AND SERVICES ARE SUBJECT TO CONCURRENCY REQUIREMENTS.
POTABLE WATER, SANITARY SEWER, DRAINAGE, PARKS AND REC, SOLID WASTE AND ROADWAYS.
NOW. AND I KNOW THAT THAT THIS IS A QUESTION.
EVERY TIME THERE'S AN ANNEXATION THAT SAYS, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH CAPACITY TO BRING ON AN ADDITIONAL PARCEL WITH SEWER AND WATER? AND I THINK PROBABLY WITHIN THE DEPARTMENTS, THEY COMMUNICATE, AND THEY SAY, YES, WE'VE GOT PLENTY.
THEY USUALLY SAY IN THEIR TECHNICAL REVIEW THAT THEY'RE SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH WATER AND SEWER CAPACITY FOR THE PROJECT, BUT WE NEVER SEE THAT IT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT A LOT OF TIMES.
YEAH, SOMETIMES YES, SOMETIMES NO.
BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE, BECAUSE THE TRB.
COMMISSIONER ROSS, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION, OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD SOMETHING TO THAT? SOMEBODY FORGOT THEIR PHONE.
WAS THAT YOUR ATTORNEY? MARGARET, IS THAT YOUR PHONE? I'LL BE BACK. IS THAT YOUR PHONE? SEE IF YOU FOUND THESE LITTLE FLIP PHONES.
[01:40:01]
CHIP ROSS, 210 NORTH THIRD STREET.WHEN I GO THROUGH THOSE REPORTS, MY CONCERN IS WE KEEP ANNEXING.
BUT WE NEVER TALK ABOUT THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT OF ALL THESE THINGS.
SO, THEY SAY, YEAH, WHEN IT'S A TWO Z'S AND A 3Z.
BUT WHAT'S THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT OF ADDING ALL THESE THINGS? AND WHAT I WOULD HOPE TO SEE IN THESE REPORTS IS HERE'S WHERE OUR SEWER CAPACITY IS, HERE'S WHAT WE HAVE LEFT.
AND YEAH, YOU HAVE THREE MORE OKAY.
BUT WITH SEWER CAPACITY IS REALLY NOT THE ISSUE IN THE CITY AS IS WATER.
THE REAL ISSUES ARE HOW MANY MORE COPS ARE YOU GOING TO NEED AND HOW MANY MORE FIREFIGHTERS AND EMS. AND THOSE ARE THE TWO BIG ONES, BECAUSE WHEN YOU START THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT, WHEN THEY ASKED FOR THREE UNITS, FOUR UNITS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, YOU GO, YEAH, RIGHT.
BUT IT'S WHEN WEEK AFTER MONTH AFTER MONTH AFTER MONTH YOU KEEP ADDING THESE.
SO, AT WHAT POINT ARE WE GOING TO ADD MORE POLICE.
WHAT MORE ARE WE GOING TO ADD MORE FIRE AND EMS AND THEN EVEN MORE AND THEN THE ROADS I MEAN, WE DON'T REQUIRE TRAFFIC STUDIES AND IT'S THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT OF ALL THIS.
UM, AND SO, UM, IF I WOULD THINK THAT AS PART OF THESE REPORTS, IF YOU COULD HAVE THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT AND HOW THIS IS AFFECTING A CUMULATIVE, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL. SO, AND I WOULD ADD AT ONE TIME UNDER CONCURRENCY, THOSE ISSUES WERE ADDRESSED.
ALL ROADWAYS HAD TO BE CONCURRENT WITH DEVELOPMENT.
NOBODY WANTED TO SPEND THE MONEY ON IT, ESPECIALLY DEVELOPMENT.
DEVELOPERS DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY.
THEY KEPT BRINGING IT BACK, BACK AND BACK.
BUT THE CONCURRENCY RULES BACK IN THE 90S, 2000 WERE PRETTY STRICT AND A LOT OF DEVELOPMENTS NEVER OR WERE POSTPONED UNTIL THE ROADWAYS WERE SUFFICIENT TO HANDLE THE PROPOSED.
BECAUSE WE USED TO GET PACKETS IN HERE, TELL US HOW MANY CARS WERE GOING TO BE ON THE HIGHWAY, HOW MANY WERE GOING TO TURN RIGHT? HOW MANY WERE GOING TO TURN LEFT? IS THAT CORRECT, NICK? IT IS.
BUT MANY, MANY YEARS AGO WE SWITCHED TO MOBILITY FROM CONCURRENCY FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT.
AND THAT'S MORE OF AN OPERATIONAL ISSUE RATHER THAN PILING TRIP RESERVATIONS FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
AND WE DID DO TRAFFIC STUDIES.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE COUNTY QUIT INVENTORYING ALL THE TRIPS ON THEIR ROADS.
AND SO, AS THE STATE, TO A LOT OF EXTENT.
SO, MOST ROADS THAT ARE COLLECTOR ROADS HERE ARE COUNTY ROADS OR STATE ROADS.
AND SO, IT'S NOT THE CITY'S BURDEN TO MONITOR OR FIX THEIR ROADS.
SO, IF I COULD JUST MAKE ONE LAST POINT.
THIS IS, AS WAS POINTED OUT, THIS IS A BARRIER ISLAND AND THERE'S A CAPACITY.
AND WE NEVER LOOK AT WHAT'S THE CAPACITY.
AND I THINK WE'RE IN THE END GAME.
I THINK WE'RE IN THE END GAME.
AND SO, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU PASS THAT TIPPING POINT THAT NOBODY WANTS TO GO PAST, THAT IT BECOMES AN UNLIVABLE PLACE? UM, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT WITH EACH ONE OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS AND, AND SORT OF THE CAPACITY.
DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR COMMISSIONER ROSS? WELL, MY CONCERN IS DON'T THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IN IN OTHER CITIES HAVE A CAPACITY.
THEY HAVE A, THEY HAVE A SAY IN THE LIMIT AND SO FORTH.
AND WHERE THEIR STATIONS ARE PLACED.
IS THAT NOT TRUE? HERE WE HAVE A MINIMUM.
YOU HAVE A STANDARD OF RESPONSE TIME, RIGHT.
DO WE LIVE BY THAT? THEY SAY WE DO.
NOW, ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT THE BEFORE YOU, BEFORE YOU GO AWAY.
I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T. I JUST DIDN'T WANT HIM TO GET AWAY.
OKAY. WELL, THAT'S A ONE-WAY STREET.
THOSE ARE MUNDANE LITTLE THINGS, BUT THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT WHEN I'M GOING FROM FIRE A OR FIRE B AND I GOT TO TURN AROUND, HOW DO I BACK OUT WHEN I'VE GOT THREE VEHICLES IN THE ROAD? WELL, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR, THAT'S SIZE QUESTION.
YEAH. BUT I THINK NICK WOULD TELL YOU THAT I THINK THE.
SUBDIVISION CITY AFTER TWO POINTS OF ENTRY AND EXIT.
IT'S JUST HOW THIS ATTENTION DOES.
ANYONE? MR. ROSS IS RIGHT. I MEAN, THERE'S A LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT WE'RE COMMITTED TO.
AND SO, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S BEING MEASURED.
[01:45:01]
BUT IF WE ARE WITH THE CITY OF FERNANDINA'S PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD, AND WE NEED TO BE THINKING OF THE THINGS THAT WE FEEL ARE IMPORTANT AS WE GO FORWARD, I THINK THE CONGESTION AND NOT ONLY JUST TRAFFIC, BUT IN EVERY WAY YOU CAN MEASURE.I THINK WE ARE AT THAT POINT WHERE WE DO NEED TO START MEASURING THOSE THINGS.
DO YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH? I MEAN, YOU ADDRESS THAT EVERY TIME SOMEBODY COMES UP HERE LIKE TONIGHT.
THERE WAS ONE HOUSE ON THOSE THREE LOTS, TORE DOWN THE ONE HOUSE.
DOUBLE FOR WHAT EXACTLY? RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT MAYBE WE, YOU KNOW, SOME CITIES IN THE PAST HAVE SAID, BUT WE'RE DONE.
AND. YEAH, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR CAPACITY.
YOU DON'T NEED A SUBCOMMITTEE.
YOU JUST ASK THEM FOR THE INFORMATION, AND THEY'RE THERE.
AND I WOULD AGREE, I THINK THAT THAT WITH OUR PACKET NEEDS TO COME A LETTER FROM THOSE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE AFFECTED TO SAY, YES, YOU HAVE CAPACITY AND GET THAT IN TECHNICAL REVIEW THOUGH.
DON'T YOU READ ANY OF THE TECHNICAL REPORTS THAT COME WITH YOUR PACKET? I MEAN, NOT WITH OUR PACKETS, BUT THERE YOU CAN GO ONLINE AND LOOK AT WHERE WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS ON INFORMATION THAT THAT ONLY THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE HAS.
BUT ONCE WE'VE APPROVED IT, IT GOES TO THEM.
WE'RE DONE. I MEAN, WE NEED TO KNOW A LOT OF THIS INFORMATION WHEN WE'RE WHEN WE'RE AT THIS POINT OF ANNEXING ANYTHING ELSE INTO THE CITY WHAT THAT IMPACT IS GOING TO BE.
AND WE'VE JUST GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHERE DOES IT COME FROM.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.
GOING FORWARD, I WILL BE SURE TO INCLUDE THESE LETTERS.
WE'VE DONE THIS AS COMMON PRACTICE IN THE PAST THAT INCLUDES THE ACTUAL RESPONSES FROM EACH INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENT STATING THAT WE HAVE ADEQUATE SERVICES, BUT IT IS ANALYZED AT THE TIME OF ANNEXATION FOR THOSE SERVICES TO ENSURE THAT YOU'RE MEETING IT.
BUT IF THAT IS WHAT THE WOULD LIKE TO SEE GOING FORWARD WITH EACH ONE, I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT FOR YOU.
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. THAT'D BE GREAT.
AND WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND JUST SEE IF THAT HELPS US, UM, WITH OUR NEED FOR INFORMATION.
SO IF YOU'RE RIGHT AND WE'RE IN THE ENDGAME AND WE'RE AT CAPACITY, I DIDN'T KNOW.
AND WE STILL HAVE ALL OF THIS PROPERTY THAT'S ZONED RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.
AND IF IT'S ZONED, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO BUILD.
AND SO I THINK A LOT OF TIMES I SAY IT ALL THE TIME, YOU KNOW, WE'RE UP HERE FIGURING, WELL, WHAT'S THE LEAST WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S GOING TO BUILD THERE. AND IF IF WE'RE IN THE ENDGAME, THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD THE LEAST THING IS THE MOST LIKELY PROFITABLE PROJECT.
IF YOU CAN BUILD 300 APARTMENTS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BUILD TEN.
YOU HAVE A QUESTION. ANYTHING IS THERE IS THERE A QUESTION HERE FROM MR..
WELL, I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IF WE'RE AT THE END GAME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO ABOUT IT OTHER THAN WELL, THE FIRST THING I WOULD SAY IS, ARE WE AT THE END GAME? AND WHAT YOU REALLY NEED TO DO IS FIND AND COME TO A, A CONSENSUS IN THE COMMUNITY OF WHAT'S THE CAPACITY OF THE ISLAND.
NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND SO WHAT'S THE CAPACITY FOR THE PARKS? WHAT'S THE CAPACITY FOR THE ROADS? WHAT'S THE CAPACITY FOR THE BEACHES? I MEAN, SOME OF THESE BEACHES ARE I MEAN, YOU WANT MORE AND MORE USE OF THEM.
SO IT'S IT'S FIGURING OUT WHAT.
INCAPACITY IS A RELATIVE TERMS, I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD SAY.
UM, AND SO WHAT DO YOU WHAT DO YOU WANT THE CAPACITY TO BE? WHAT DOES THE COMMUNITY WANT IT TO BE? NOT YOU, THE COMMUNITY.
HOW ABOUT EVACUATION? AND THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE.
MARGARET, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME COME JOIN OUR CONVERSATION? YEAH. THE TURN.
YES, I SHOULD SAY MARGARET KIRKLAND, 1377 PLANTATION POINT DRIVE.
[01:50:03]
SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF CONSERVE NASSAU.UM, LAURIE AND I ARE SITTING OVER HERE LAUGHING BECAUSE CAPACITY WAS A TURN.
OKAY. AND I TALKED TO MULTIPLE ATTORNEYS AND THEY SAID, WELL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE WITH THIS AT THIS POINT IN TIME AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND, UM, PUDS AND SO ON, AS THOUGH WE'RE GOING TO DEVELOP EVERY QUARTER INCH OF THIS ISLAND.
THAT IS A HUGE MISTAKE THAT ENSURES THAT WE WILL NEED TO RETREAT FROM THE ISLAND.
THAT'S THE LAST STEP, RIGHT? THAT WE WILL NEED TO RETREAT FROM THIS ISLAND SOONER THAN MIGHT OTHERWISE BE NEEDED.
WE NEED TO BE HAVING OPEN PUBLIC DISCUSSION OF WHAT OUR PLANNING IS, WHAT THE CITIZENS OF THIS ISLAND, THE PEOPLE WHO PAY THEIR TAXES ON THIS ISLAND, BOTH OF THE CITY AND THE COUNTY, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THE FUTURE OF THIS ISLAND, DO WE WANT TO BE AS SUSTAINABLE AS POSSIBLE? AND WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT SUSTAINABLE.
I AM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL.
I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL SUSTAINABILITY.
AND THE ECONOMY OF THIS ISLAND DEPENDS LARGELY ON THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT IT'S ALL MIXED UP AND WE WE REALLY NEED TO BE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS.
I KNOW KELLY TRIED AT ONE POINT TO BRING IT UP AND NOBODY EVERYBODY WAS KIND OF LIKE THIS AND, UM, NOBODY WOULD PARTICIPATE. BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BASED ON THE ATTENDANCE AT OUR CLIMATE CHANGE, UM, LECTURE ON THE 6TH OF DECEMBER, I WOULD SAY THAT THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT IT.
MOST OF US WOULD LIKE TO PRODUCE, TO EXTEND, UM, THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THE ISLAND IN ALL ASPECTS AS LONG AS POSSIBLE AND TO PLAN COHERENTLY FOR THE FUTURE.
AS AND THERE'S A LOT NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE FUTURE, RIGHT.
UM, SO IT REQUIRES A LOT OF HARD WORK, BUT WE NEED TO BE DOING THAT.
AND, UM, CAPACITY IS AN INTERESTING POINT BECAUSE LAURIE AND I BOTH TALKED TO THE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR AT THE TIME AND ALL THESE PEOPLE ABOUT, WELL, WHAT IS OUR CAPACITY AND THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER.
DO YOU KNOW THAT CAPACITY, EITHER AUTOMOBILES OR HUMAN BEINGS, THOSE ARE NOT FACTORS THAT ARE CONSIDERED IN DETERMINING EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES.
OKAY. SO WHAT IS THAT BLEW MY MIND OKAY.
WHAT DO THEY I CAN'T GO INTO ALL OF THAT.
BUT BUT THOSE ARE FACTORS THAT ARE NOT IN THERE.
AND WE HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING EMERGENCIES THAT ARE NOT JUST HURRICANES BUT ALSO INDUSTRIAL EMERGENCIES. WE HAVE HAD, UH, ONE RECENTLY.
WE HAD A UM, UH, UM, UH, A GAS PIPE EXPLOSION AND JUST OUTSIDE OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD A FEW WEEKS AGO, THAT WAS A BIT OF AN EMERGENCY THING.
NOBODY COULD COME IN OR OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF EMERGENCIES THAT WE COULD HAVE.
AND THE MORE PEOPLE AND THE MORE CARDS YOU HAVE, THE BIGGER PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE.
OKAY. AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE MORE YOU INCREASE YOUR DENSITY OF HUMAN BEINGS, THE MORE YOU ARE INCREASING CRIME.
YOU ARE ACTUALLY CAUSING CRIME BECAUSE AND YOU ARE BUILDING CULTURES THAT THRIVE ON THAT.
SO I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE BE LOOKING AT CAPACITY IN TERMS OF THE SOCIAL DYNAMICS AND HOW THAT WILL IMPACT US.
[01:55:02]
AND THAT, OF COURSE, IMPACTS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, EVERYBODY ELSE.SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED ISSUE.
BUT I THINK WE DO NEED TO BE DISCUSSING THOSE THINGS.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT.
SURE. SHE SHE JANGLED A NERVE.
WHEN YOU'RE DOING MR. GILLETTE, I KNOW YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE.
YOU'RE SITTING THERE WITH A POD, A NEW DEVELOPMENT, WHATEVER IT HAPPENS TO BE, YOU HAVE TO CALCULATE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO WITH WATER RUNOFF OR STORMWATER, RIGHT? HOW FAR? I MEAN, DO YOU HAVE TO TELL THE CITY I'M GOING TO ADD NUMBER X NUMBER OF GALLONS OF WATER, WORST CASE 100 YEAR STORM TO THE SYSTEM.
SO I'VE GOT TO HOLD ON TO THAT WATER AND THEN I CAN LET IT GO.
AFTER 100 YEAR STORM EVENT OR DESIGN EVENT WOULD BE.
SO THERE ARE RESERVATIONS THAT THEY GIVE US FROM A CAPACITY STANDPOINT.
I THINK IT'S JUST A RECORD KEEPING THING.
THAT ONE THING I'D LIKE TO ADD TO JUST AS A POINT OF CONSIDERATION, IS THAT THESE PROPERTIES ARE ALREADY BEING SERVICED BY THE COUNTY OR BY THE CITY'S, UH, POLICE AND FIRE.
THEY'RE NOT CALLING 911 AND SAYING, WELL, ARE YOU IN THE COUNTY OR ARE YOU IN THE CITY THEY'RE SENDING OUT? THEY'RE ALREADY BEING SERVICED BY THE CITY.
SO JUST JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.
RIGHT. WELL, AND BUT I THINK THAT WHAT, UM, COMMISSIONER ROSS WAS SAYING, THOUGH, IS AS WE CONTINUE TO ANNEX NEW PROPERTIES IN, DOES THAT DIMINISH THAT RESPONSE TIME UNTIL TO THE POINT WHERE THEN THEY DO HAVE TO SAY IT IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE ALL THE NEW ANNEXATION PROPERTIES, WE NEED TO ADD ANOTHER OFFICER.
WE NEED TO ADD ANOTHER CAR, WE NEED TO ADD WHATEVER.
AND THERE IS THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME KIND OF A CALCULATION.
ABSOLUTELY. WELL, WITH THE THREE PROPERTIES, WE LOSE THE TIME.
STATISTICALLY, I'VE INCREASED THE POTENTIAL FOR AN INCIDENT BY 20% ON THAT ONE PARTICULAR STREET.
SO THERE IS SOME SIGNIFICANCE THAT IS THAT'S NEW NEWS THEY DIDN'T HAVE.
THEY MIGHT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A GRASS FIRE BUT NOT A HOUSE FIRE.
WELL, WE WERE JUST AND I'LL CLOSE ON THIS.
WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE THAT WE'RE A FINITE LAND COMMUNITY.
WE NASSAU COUNTY HAS GOT HUGE ISSUES.
HERE THE POLICE ARE MOST OF THE TIME DRIVING BY THE PLACE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SERVE IN THE FUTURE THROUGH ANNEXATION, BECAUSE THE CITY IS ALL HODGEPODGE ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THEY'RE RUNNING AROUND.
I MEAN, THIS PROPERTY, FOR EXAMPLE, WE JUST HAPPENED TO BUILD A FIRE STATION AT THE AIRPORT.
SO NOW WE'RE WE'RE A PAR THREE AWAY FROM THIS PLACE, YOU KNOW, A MINUTE AND A HALF.
YEAH. OKAY. BUT I THINK THAT, UM, THERE'S A LOT MORE INFORMATION THAT WE SHOULD BE GETTING.
AND I'D LIKE FOR THIS TO SORT OF BE A WORK IN PROGRESS.
THAT'S THAT AS WE START TO FIND THINGS THAT WE SAY, GOSH, IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE X, Y, AND Z AS AN ADDITIONAL METHOD TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE IMPACT OF, OF A PARTICULAR CHANGE IN ZONING OR, OR AN ANNEXATION IS GOING TO DO TO THE CITY.
I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S THAT'S GOT TO BE PART OF WHAT WE LOOK AT AND GOING FORWARD.
WELL, THERE HAS TO BE WE HAVE TO INVOLVE THE DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE THAT INFORMATION.
YEAH. AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO ASK DAPHNE TO HELP US COORDINATE THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT JUST IT'S JUST NOT, UH, YOU KNOW, BUSY WORK THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR.
I THINK WHAT WE SHOULD DO IN BETWEEN, I THINK WE SHOULD EMAIL DAPHNE WITH THINGS THAT WE THINK.
ABSOLUTELY. SO SHE CAN LOOK AT.
OKAY, WHAT DO WE WHAT DO WE THINK WE NEED? YES. IF YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE GIVE DAPHNE AN EMAIL.
ABSOLUTELY. GIVE ME A CALL, WHICHEVER IS MORE CONVENIENT.
HANG ON. I THINK WE'RE ALL ANXIOUS TO GET GOING HERE.
[02:00:09]
I THINK IT ACTUALLY ENDED UP IN THE PAPER.THE LOCAL PAPER, UM, ABOUT FAILURE TO ANALYZE THE IMPACT OF LIVE LOCAL ON YOU REMEMBER THE PROPERTY THAT WE BROUGHT INTO IT WAS AN ANNEXATION.
SO I THINK IT AND RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'VE JUST TALKED ABOUT, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WHEN WE ANNEX THE PROPERTY IN ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE, IT'S IT CAME IN AS A COMMERCIAL.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO PUT ON IT.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT CONFIGURATION IS.
BUT I THINK THAT WE EVERY TIME THAT THERE IS A COMMERCIAL PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT COMES IN EITHER AS AN ANNEXATION OR THEY WANT TO HAVE A ZONING CHANGE, UH, THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT THAT COULD BECOME A, UM, LIVING LOCAL PROJECT.
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS GENERALLY IN, IN THE CASE THAT WE JUST HEARD, WHICH IS THE JUST TO THE SOUTH OF THIS PROPERTY THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IS THIS THIS NICE STRIP OF COMMERCIAL LAND.
AND IT'S AND THAT'S A VERY GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT THAT COULD BE TURNED INTO A LIVE LOCAL PROJECT.
UH, IT'S JUST SPECULATION OF THE OLD CHURCH WAS.
NO, THIS WAS THIS IS, UH, JUST.
DAPHNE, COULD YOU PULL THAT UP? SURE. JUST. AND YES, IT IS FOR THE OLD CHURCH SITE IS IT'S GOT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT BUILDINGS ON THAT ON THAT PARCEL BETWEEN 14TH AND 15TH.
OKAY. BUT YES, IT'S ON THE IT'S ON THE EAST SIDE OF 14TH STREET, CORRECT.
YES, YES. SO, UM, IT'S UH, SO HERE'S THE, THE THE OBSERVATION BY, UH, COMMISSIONER ROSS WAS THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY VISIBILITY ON WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN WE BRING IN A PROPERTY AND WE AGREE TO REZONE IT COMMERCIAL.
UM, THEN UNBEKNOWNST TO US, IT COULD GO TO RESIDENTIAL, WHICH HAS REAL IMPACTS ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAY THAN COMMERCIAL DOES.
AND I THINK FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK MAKES FERNANDINA AND AMELIA ISLAND WORK SO WELL IS THAT THERE IS A BALANCE.
SO WHAT WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW IS WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS WHEN A COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY WANTS TO BE ANNEXED INTO THE CITY, AND THE POSSIBILITY IS THERE TO TURN THAT INTO X NUMBER OF APARTMENT PROJECTS, AND CAN WE DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? OR CAN WE SET ANY RULES IN PLACE THAT WE CAN CONTROL THAT PART OF A SCENARIO.
SO I CAN INCLUDE AN ANALYSIS OF THE POTENTIAL FOR WHAT THE ACREAGE WOULD ALLOW UNDER LIVE LOCAL.
ALL THOSE THINGS ALSO HAVE AN IMPACT IN THE OVERALL DEVELOPMENT.
THIS IS A VERY NEW LEGISLATION.
WE'RE STILL IN THE KIND OF LEARNING PROCESS.
THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT IF WE DO AN ANNEXATION OF A COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY TO NOT PERMIT ANY RESIDENTIAL, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
SO WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS? OUR OPTIONS ARE TO.
THE LOT SIZE OR THE NUMBER OF UNITS.
OR YOU COULD YOU COULD LOOK AT YOUR DENSITY ALLOWANCE, YOUR EXISTING DENSITY ALLOWANCE AND MODIFY THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY ALL IT TOOK AWAY YEARS OF WHAT WE'VE DONE ON THIS BOARD AND JUST TERMINATING WHERE THE COMMERCIAL WOULD BE.
WHERE'S THE RESIDENTIAL, WHERE'S THE INDUSTRIAL, ALL OF THIS STUFF.
I CAN'T TELL YOU THE NUMBER OF HOURS WE PUT INTO DOING THAT.
[02:05:08]
EMPHASIS ON NOT ENOUGH COMMERCIAL ON THE ISLAND TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT TAX BASE THAT WE NEEDED MORE OF THAT.SO WHAT'S OUR OPTIONS IS, IS THE IS ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES DAPHNE.
THE THAT IT CAN, UH, LIVE LOCAL CAN TAKE THE HIGHEST DENSITY OF THE COMMUNITY AS ITS BASE TO ESTABLISH HOW MANY UNITS.
AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S DOWNTOWN OR IF IT'S DOWN BY THE GOLF COURSE TONIGHT.
WHAT WAS IT, 32 OR 36 UNITS I READ SOMEWHERE.
I'M SORRY. BECAUSE OF THE HIGHEST DENSITY IN THE CITY WAS THE DOWNTOWN.
THAT'S WHAT CAN BE APPLIED TO EVERY COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY.
AND THINK ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY IN THIS TOWN.
YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S OVERWHELMING WHEN YOU LOOK AT JUST LOOK AT THE TWO MILL, WHICH I'M NOT SUGGESTING THEY'RE GOING ANYWHERE, BUT SOMEONE SOMEDAY, ASSUMING IT'S NOT POLLUTED, IS GOING TO THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE FOR A NEW CITY.
SO THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE YOU LIVED IN FLORIDA.
I'VE TOLD EVERYBODY, IF IT'S VACANT LAND TODAY, IT'LL BE DEVELOPED INTO SOMETHING ONE DAY.
AND PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE THAT, RIGHT? DAPHNE WANTS TO TALK TO US.
YEAH. SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT WOULD BE A GOOD POINT TO START AT IF YOU'RE WANTING TO REALLY, UM, MAKE AN IMPACT ON THIS IS TO LOOK AT YOUR HIGHEST DENSITY AND CHANGING THIS TO ALLOW DENSITIES.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT I COULD THINK THAT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
ALSO, UM, APPLYING STANDARDS FOR MULTIFAMILY, STRICTER STANDARDS FOR MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT IS AN OPTION AS WELL, UM, WHERE YOU CAN ADD MORE BUFFERING, UM, AND INCREASED IMPERVIOUS SURFACE RATIOS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT COULD REALLY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNITS.
OKAY. I'LL JUST ADD ONE COMMENT.
HEIGHT IS PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANT THAN DENSITY.
IF YOU IF YOU CAN'T BUILD UP, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIT THE NUMBER OF UNITS.
32 UNITS SOUNDS GREAT PER ACRE, BUT YOU CAN'T FIT IT.
I KNOW WE HAVE WHAT 45FT MAXIMUM 35.
THAT WOULD STILL THAT CANNOT BE.
YEAH. AND YOU WON'T GET 32 UNITS AN ACRE ONLY GOING 45FT HIGH RIGHT.
AND THEY WANT TO START COMING IN ON ANNEXATION, THAT IF IT'S THEY WANT TO COME IN AS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, WE NEED TO SAY WHAT IS THE IMPACT IF THEY DECIDE TO GO LIVE LOCAL? WELL, I THINK, THOUGH, THAT IF THEY COME IN COMMERCIAL, THEY NEED TO COME BACK TO US IF IT'S GOING TO BE RESIDENTIAL, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
SO IT WOULD GO UNDER THE TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE FOR REVIEW.
IN FACT, THE LEGISLATION EXPLICITLY SAYS THAT IT IT SHOULD NOT BE REQUIRED FOR APPROVAL.
IT SHOULDN'T HAVE TO UNDERGO A SPECIAL LAND USE AMENDMENT OR ZONING AMENDMENT FOR APPROVAL.
AND THEN THAT LEAVES IT UP TO DEVELOPMENT UNDER WHATEVER THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS WOULD.
WOULD YOU SUGGEST THEN THAT THAT WE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE WHEN WE RECOMMEND WHEN WE HAVE A MOTION AND WE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FOR ANNEXATION, FOR ZONING AND FOR FLUME, THOSE THREE THINGS ARE IN THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE TAKE A VOTE ON. RIGHT? YEAH. DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT WE SEPARATE? MAYBE THE FIRST DECISION IS WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO ANNEX IT.
YES. SO, DAPHNE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD HELP US ON AS FAR AS SEPARATING THOSE? IF YOU WOULD LIKE, YOU CAN DO THAT IN THE FORM OF YOUR MOTION AND DO THREE SEPARATE MOTIONS.
AND HISTORICALLY, THEY'VE TRIED TO ADD IT.
WHAT'S IN THE SAME KIND OF CATEGORIES THAT THE COUNTY HAS.
SO IF IT WAS RESIDENTIAL LOW DENSITY, THAT WAS TYPICALLY WHAT THEY TRIED TO APPLY.
[02:10:06]
MEETINGS. WHAT I'VE NOTICED IS THAT THERE'S A IT'S A RESOLUTION, AN ORDINANCE AND ORDINANCES.CORRECT. AND SO I GUESS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS IF A PROPERTY COMES TO US AND THEY WANT TO BE COMMERCIAL, UM, OR INDUSTRIAL, AND MAYBE WE FIND OUT THERE'S SOME TERRIBLE SOMETHING UNDERNEATH IT, DO WE WANT TO REALLY ANNEX IT BEFORE WE EVEN GO ANY FURTHER.
YES OR NO? SO IT'S A YES OR NO, RIGHT.
AND SO BY I GUESS I'D LIKE TO SEE IT SEPARATED SO THAT IT'S ACTUALLY A BOARD VOTE.
WELL WHEN YOU GET THE PACKET YOU GET A TELLING YOU WHAT IT CURRENTLY IS ZONED IN LAND USE.
WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION AND WHAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF.
SO YOU ARE VOTING ON ALL THREE THINGS TO ANNEX IT.
WHAT'S THE LAND USE IS AND WHAT'S THE ZONING IS AND EVERY ANNEXATION.
RIGHT. I'M NOT CONFUSED BUT THAT'S BUT THAT'S WHERE I'M SAYING IS THAT RATHER THAN IT, IT BE ALL LUMPED TOGETHER IN ONE VOTE THAT WE VOTE INDIVIDUALLY FOR THE ANNEXATION BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE CITY COMMISSION IS GOING TO VOTE ON IT.
WE DO WE DO VOTE INDIVIDUALLY.
NO, NO, I'M JUST SAYING THAT THREE SEPARATE COMMISSION VOTES ON A PARTICULAR RIGHT.
BUT WE NORMALLY PUT IT TOGETHER JUST TO SPEED THINGS.
YOU CAN SEPARATE THEM IF YOU WANT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING DAPHNE IF SHE COULD.
MAKE A I CAN PREPARE THREE SEPARATE MOTIONS FOR FOR THE BOARD.
YEAH, ONE FOR ANNEXATION, ONE FOR THE LAND USE AND ONE FOR THE ZONING.
BECAUSE IF WE IF WE VOTED DOWN, THE DISCUSSION IS DONE.
YEAH. I MEAN, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ANNEX IT, THEN YOU'RE DONE.
YOU DID ALL THREE OF THOSE TONIGHT, RIGHT.
I DON'T SAY TRANSPARENT, BUT IT'S MORE IT'S MORE DELIBERATE THAT SAYS WE ARE LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE PROS AND CONS OF ANNEXING A PIECE OF PROPERTY INTO THE CITY.
IT'S JUST THAT WE'RE SAYING THERE'S A VOTE ON EACH ONE OF THOSE AND IT'S ON RECORD.
BUT THERE'S ALSO A I'D LIKE TO TRY IT ANYWAY, MADAM CHAIR, WOULD THAT THE MOTION, UH, THE SEPARATE MOTIONS, WOULD THAT SERVE AS A SOLUTION TO WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING? I THINK I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE BOARD, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE IT.
ALL RIGHT. SO LET ME SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE I CAN.
I LIKE THAT STUFF. I GET MY MOTHER USED TO TELL ME TO STOP.
NO, I'M. I'M THIS IS MY LAST ONE.
YES. I'M SORRY, I WAS JUST OPENING.
UM, YES. UH, WE CAN ADD THAT AS A DISCUSSION ITEM FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
I THINK THAT GOES HAND IN HAND WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED TONIGHT.
UH, REGARDING, UH, LIVE LOCAL AND FUTURE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS, SO THAT'S GOOD.
UH, I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
STAFF REPORT ITEM SEVEN THERE.
[7. STAFF REPORT]
I HAVE NOTHING TO REPORT OTHER THAN, UH, JANUARY MEETING IS WHEN YOU WILL SEE.I KNOW MR. BENNETT HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE, UH, UPCOMING UPCOMING TEXT AMENDMENTS.
THAT'LL BE WHEN, UH, THAT IS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD.
FOR CONSIDERATION FOR 10304 AND 10305.
OKAY. AND, UH, STAFF HAS TAKEN THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE CITY COMMISSION, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO PRESENT TO US, CORRECT? OKAY. DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? WELL, I THINK THAT IF IF THAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INVOLVED, WE PROBABLY NEED A WORKSHOP FOR THAT.
WE CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THE AGENDA THAT I KNOW OF.
[02:15:01]
NO, NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE, UM, IF WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE, IF THAT'S THE MAIN THING ON THE AGENDA, THEN IT'S OKAY.UM, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? YEAH. THAT'S FINE.
IS THERE ANY ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? THERE'S ONLY TWO PEOPLE OF THE OF THE PUBLIC LEFT.
APPRECIATE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALL RIGHT. IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD, WE ARE ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.