Nov 08, 2023 Planning Advisory Board

GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING.

[00:00:02]

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

TODAY IS NOVEMBER THE 8TH, 2023.

THE TIME IS 5 P.M..

WE ARE IN CITY HALL COMMISSION CHAMBERS IN FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.

MADAM SECRETARY, WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? THANK YOU. IF WE COULD ALL STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, PLEASE.

OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF OUR MEETING MINUTES.

[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]

ARE THERE ANY CHANGES OR ADJUSTMENTS TO THE MINUTES? YES. GO AHEAD.

OKAY. SECTION THREE DECIMAL ONE.

THE LAST SENTENCE IN THE BOTTOM OF THE THIRD PARAGRAPH.

THIS NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED.

STAFF TO PROCEEDED.

THE STAFF TO PROCEEDED WITH THESE LANGUAGE CHANGES IN ORDER TO SERVE THESE INTENTS, AND I DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THAT MEANS, NEITHER DO I. WHAT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD? STRIKE IT. I'M OKAY WITH THAT.

THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO STRIKE THE LAST SENTENCE OF THE THIRD PARAGRAPH.

IS THAT ALL YOU HAVE, MR. STEVENSON? I HAVE ONE MORE KIND OF A QUESTION.

IF WE GO OVER TO THE COMMENTS SECTION AND GO, JUST KEEP GOING UNTIL YOU GET DOWN TO COMMISSIONER, CITY COMMISSIONER CHIP ROSS.

OKAY. THERE'S A PARAGRAPH THERE JUST FOR CLARITY.

IF YOU READ THE LAST TWO WORDS IN THE BOTTOM OF HIS COMMENTS OF THAT PARAGRAPH, I WOULD SUGGEST WE PUT REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN ALTERNATE MEETINGS.

SOMEBODY LOOKING AT IT FROM THE OUTSIDE, MIGHT NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS PAB OR COMMISSION.

SO YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO SAY I WOULD SAY REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING.

IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT FOR CLARIFICATION? SURE. WELL, PRIOR TO THAT IT SAYS NOT ALL COMMISSIONERS AGREED TO CONSIDER IT.

SO IT'S RELATING TO THE COMMISSION MEETING.

I DON'T CARE, I WOULD DO IT JUST MORE OR LESS JUST FROM ABSOLUTE CLARITY, MAYBE OVERKILL.

EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? ALL RIGHT. THE QUESTION I HAD THOUGH WAS REALLY ON THAT THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, AND I'M WONDERING I DON'T KNOW IF THIS NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED OR NOT, BUT WHERE IT SAYS CHAIR ROBAS INDICATED, AND I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE FOR CLARIFICATION THAT IT WOULD SAY THAT ACCORDING TO THE CITY COMMISSION, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE LACKS DEFINITIONS, BECAUSE CERTAINLY I DON'T THINK THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE NEEDS DEFINITIONS, AND THAT'S REALLY NOT WHY WE WERE STARTING TO HAVE THAT WHOLE DISCUSSION.

I WAS UNSURE ABOUT THAT ONE, BECAUSE I WASN'T QUITE SURE HOW THAT GOT, AND I JUST FELT LIKE MAYBE THAT MIGHT HELP CLARIFY WHY IN THE WORLD WE'RE EVEN GOING THROUGH THIS.

SO IS THERE ANY THOUGHT ABOUT ADDING THAT TO? WELL, A SUGGESTION MIGHT BE THAT THE REASON FOR THE MEETING WAS TO REACT TO A REQUEST FROM THE CITY COMMISSION TO PUT SOME CLARIFICATION INTO THOSE TWO 03 AND 04 OR, I'M SORRY, 04 AND 05 FIVE AND MAYBE WE DO NEED TO ADD SOME DEFINITION.

AFTER OUR MEETING, IT WAS CLEAR THAT THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS, BUT AS A TRIBUTE AND COMMENT TO YOU, IT SHOULD ACCURATELY INDICATE WHAT YOU MEANT, AND THAT AND THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I SAID IT THOUGH, BUT CERTAINLY I THINK THAT IT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT CLEARER WHY IN THE WORLD WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS? YES. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? YOU'RE OKAY. WELL, COULD YOU SAY THAT YOU INDICATED THAT THE CITY COMMISSION HAD REQUESTED.

MAYBE THE CLARITY OR I JUST THINK THAT IT INDICATED INDICATED THAT ACCORDING TO THE CITY COMMISSION, THE LAND

[00:05:06]

OKAY. IF THE BOARD IS AGREEABLE.

YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE.

OKAY. KEEP IN MIND ALL OF THESE ARE RECORDED.

SO IF ANYONE NEEDS TO LISTEN TO THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE THEY CAN DO THAT.

OKAY, BUT THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION ON THAT SECTION.

ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY CHANGES OR AMENDMENTS OR COMMENTS ON THIS SEPTEMBER 27TH SPECIAL MEETING? ANY OTHER? I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 27TH, 2023 PAB MEETING, AS MODIFIED BY THE PAB BOARD THIS EVENING.

OKAY, DO I HEAR A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT. ALL RIGHT.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED? LIKE SIGN.

MOTION IS APPROVED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT ITEM IS TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR THE REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER THE 11TH, 2023.

WERE THERE ANY CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT ON THOSE MINUTES? YES. ALL RIGHT, MR. STEVENSON. ALL RIGHT. FIVE DECIMAL ONE DOWN TO THROUGH THE NARRATIVE.

THERE'S A SENTENCE ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WAY DOWN.

I THINK IT'S PAGE THREE OR SO.

IT SAYS CHAIR ROBAS ASK FIVE ZERO ONE.

HANG ON. FIVE ONE.

YEAH FIVE ONE.

YEAH. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

WE FIND THAT. OKAY.

IT'S THE SECOND PAGE OF THE MINUTES.

OH. ASK IF THERE WAS ANY INTENT.

YEAH. OKAY. JUST GO DOWN TO THE VERY LAST SENTENCE.

THIS IS JUST A SIMPLE ONE.

SHE ALSO SPOKE OF PREVIOUS A.

IT JUST NEEDS A PREVIOUS FLUM.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT SHE ALSO SPOKE OF A PREVIOUS THAT A NEEDS TO BE BEFORE PREVIOUS.

YEP. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT. EVERYBODY'S GOOD ON THAT ONE GRAMMATICAL THING THERE.

I HAD SOMETHING TO THAT SAME PARAGRAPH.

I WANTED TO SEE WHAT YOU ALL THOUGHT.

CHAIR ROBAS ASKED IF THERE IS ANY INTENT BY THE OWNER TO SUBMIT A REQUEST TO VACATE IT, AND I THOUGHT IT.

I KNOW THAT IT'S REFERRING TO THE PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH, BUT FOR CLARIFICATION, WOULD IT HELP TO SAY PARENTHESES THE RIGHT OF WAY CLOSE PARENTHESES TO THE OWNER? YEAH, BECAUSE THAT DID GET I THINK IT IS TOO VAGUE.

OKAY. I'D LIKE TO ADD REQUEST TO VACATE IT.

PARENTHESES THE RIGHT OF WAY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED CLOSE PAREN TO THE OWNER.

OR YOU COULD EVEN SAY THE RIGHT OF WAY BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES.

TAYLOR I'M GOING TO LET YOU FIGURE THAT ONE OUT.

OKAY. NOTED. YES, CHAIR.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

SO IS THE BOARD OKAY ON THESE ADJUSTMENTS, THESE CHANGES? ANY OTHER CHANGES TO THE MINUTES? I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE PAB REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 11TH, 2023 MINUTES AS ALTERED BY THE PAB THIS EVENING.

DO I HEAR A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED? LIKE SIGN.

HEARING NONE. THE MOTION IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND, TAYLOR, I'LL PASS THESE OVER TO YOU DURING OUR MEETING HERE.

YES. OKAY. THAT'S GOOD.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IS THERE ANY OLD BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD? HEARING NONE. WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM FIVE.

NEW BUSINESS 5.1 PAB CASE 2023-0051.

[5.1 PAB 2023-0051 - FUTURE LAND USE AND ZONING MAP AMENDMENT]

MADAM CHAIR, YES, THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR A LAND USE AND ZONING MAP AMENDMENT FOR CITY OWNED PROPERTY.

THESE PROPERTIES ARE LOCATED ON 1310 ELM STREET, AND THEY CURRENTLY ARE USED BY THE FERNANDINA BEACH FIRE DEPARTMENT AS A LOGISTICS AND TRAINING CENTER.

THE PROPERTY TOTALS ABOUT 0.92 ACRES IN SIZE, AND AGAIN THAT IS ZONED MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL R-2 AND FOR RECORD ALL REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, AND ALL REQUIRED NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE, AND A LITTLE

[00:10:03]

THESE PARCELS OR THIS PARCEL HAS MULTIPLE UNDERLYING PARCELS, BUT THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PART OF RESOLUTION 2023-195. THE PUBLIC LANDS INVENTORY, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LIVE LOCAL ACT THAT WAS HEARD AT THE OCTOBER 17TH CITY COMMISSION MEETING. AT THAT MEETING, THE CITY COMMISSION AMENDED THE RESOLUTION TO REMOVE THESE PROPERTIES AND DIRECT THEM TO THE PAB FOR A FUTURE LAND USE AMENDMENT AND A ZONING AMENDMENT FROM RESIDENTIAL TO RECREATION, AND THIS PROPERTY ABUTS THE EXISTING RECREATIONAL FACILITIES TO THE WEST AND RESIDENTIAL TO THE EAST, AND THE CONCLUSION IS THAT STAFF FINDS THESE AMENDMENTS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST.

FOLLOWING THE PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD'S RECOMMENDATION, THIS APPLICATION WOULD MOVE FORWARD TO THE CITY COMMISSION IN THE FORM OF TWO SEPARATE ORDINANCES AT A PUBLIC HEARING THAT IS ANTICIPATED FOR DECEMBER 19TH, 2023.

DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS CONCERNING THIS APPLICATION? ALL RIGHT, I WILL SAY THAT I DID EMAIL STAFF EARLIER TODAY.

I PULLED THE DEEDS ON THOSE AND FOUR OF THE LOTS SAID ON THE DEED THAT THEY WANTED THEM TO BE DEDICATED FOR PUBLIC USE, BUT THE OTHER LOTS DIDN'T SAY THAT.

SO I DIDN'T KNOW WHY.

THERE WERE TWO DEEDS. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS WERE.

I REACHED OUT [INAUDIBLE], BUT I DIDN'T HEAR BACK IN TIME, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY MAJOR ISSUE, AND STAFF CLARIFIED THAT.

I ALSO WASN'T SURE IF THAT BUILDING WAS ACTUALLY A PERMITTED USE IN RECREATION BECAUSE OF SETBACKS.

I DIDN'T WANT TO CREATE A NONCONFORMITY THROUGH OUR REZONING, BUT STAFF ASSURED ME IT'S GOING TO BE A RECREATIONAL ELEMENT MOVING FORWARD.

SO AND I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE FINALLY, THAT THERE WASN'T A BUFFER REQUIRED FOR THE EXISTING MIXED USE ON THE EAST.

I DON'T WANT TO CREATE A BURDEN ON THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY TO THE EAST OF THEM, AND THEY IT'S RESIDENTIAL TO THE EAST OR R-2 I'M SORRY.

R-2 BUT SOMETIMES WHEN YOU HAVE USES THAT ARE DIFFERENT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BUFFER.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T IMPOSE A BUFFER ON THEM.

SO TO CLARIFY THAT, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OR ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR DAPHNE? IF NOT, IF IT'S ALL RIGHT WITH THE BOARD, I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR ANY PUBLIC DISCUSSION.

ARE YOU READY FOR THAT? YEAH.

OKAY. IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD AND MAKE A PRESENTATION OR EXPRESS PLUSES OR MINUSES OR CONCERNS, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME TO THE PODIUM. GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND WE HAVE WE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO REALLY IMPOSE A STRICT THREE MINUTE LIMIT, BUT LET'S TRY TO KEEP IT FAIRLY CONCISE, BUT YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO COME AND SPEAK ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW.

WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO COME BEFORE AND SPEAK TO US? REVEREND BERNARD THOMPSON, 1311 BEACH STREET, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA.

I'M IN FAVOR OF BOTH OF THESE PARCELS BEING ZONED FOR RECREATIONAL USE.

IT APPEARS THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN, EFFORTS ARE BEING MADE WITHIN THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF TOWN, WHICH HAS BEEN PREDOMINANTLY BLACK FOR MANY YEARS.

THAT WOULD ACCELERATE GENTRIFICATION, AND THESE TWO PARCELS BEING ZONED RECREATIONAL, THAT WOULD TAKE THEM OUT OF THAT EQUATION.

WE WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT, AND JUST TO THE POINT, I AM TOTALLY IN FAVOR OF IT.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

REVEREND THOMPSON. THANK YOU FOR COMING.

WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK TO US ON THAT PARTICULAR ITEM? OKAY. HEARING NONE DO I HEAR A MOTION? I WILL MAKE A MOTION.

SHALL WE PROCEED? SHALL PROCEED. I MOVE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF PAB CASE 2023-0051 TO THE CITY COMMISSION, REQUESTING REASSIGNMENT OF THE CITY'S FUTURE LAND USE MAP.

CATEGORY OF MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL MDR AND ZONING DISTRICT OF R-2 TO CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH RECREATION REC FUTURE LAND USE MAP CATEGORY AND RECREATION REC ZONING DISTRICT FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1310 ELM STREET TO BE APPROVED AND THAT THE PAB CASE

[00:15:04]

THANK YOU. DO I HEAR A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND FOR DISCUSSION.

MR. BENNETT? NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO SECOND IT.

OH, YOU WERE GOING TO SECOND. OKAY.

ON THE FLOOR. ALL RIGHT, SO DO YOU TURN YOUR LIGHT OFF, SIR? GOOD. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT, SO WE HAD A MOTION.

WE HAD A SECOND.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED? LIKE SIGN.

HEARING NONE. THE MOTION IS UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

LET'S MOVE ON TO ITEM 5.2.

[5.2 PAB 2023-0052 - FUTURE LAND USE AND ZONING MAP AMENDMENT]

DAPHNE. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND A ZONING MAP CHANGE FOR CITY OWNED PROPERTY.

THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON INDIGO STREET.

THIS IS THE BASKETBALL COURT AREA THAT'S UTILIZED BY AMERICA'S YOUTH, AND IT IS CURRENTLY ZONED MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL R-2 WITH A MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL LAND USE, AND THAT PROPERTY TOTALS ABOUT 0.23 ACRES IN SIZE, AND FOR THE RECORD, ALL REQUIRED APPLICATION MATERIALS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED, ALL FEES HAVE BEEN PAID, AND ALL REQUIRED NOTICES HAVE BEEN MADE, AND THIS PARCEL IS AN ADDITION ADDITIONAL PARCEL THAT WAS INCLUDED ON THE RESOLUTION FOR PUBLIC LAND INVENTORY, AND IT WAS ALSO REMOVED FROM THAT RESOLUTION AND DIRECTED TO COME BEFORE THE PAB FOR THESE AMENDMENTS AND THAT WOULD BE TAKING THEM FROM THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL LAND USE AND ZONING TO A RECREATIONAL LAND USE AND ZONING, AND STAFF HAS CONCLUDED THAT THE APPLICATION IS CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST.

THIS WOULD ALSO MOVE FORWARD IN THE FORM OF TWO SEPARATE ORDINANCES.

AT A PUBLIC HEARING WITH THE CITY COMMISSION ANTICIPATED FOR DECEMBER 19TH, 2023.

DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS APPLICATION? THANK YOU, DAPHNE.

ANY QUESTIONS FOR DAPHNE CONCERNING THIS ITEM? NO. IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? SIR, IF YOU WOULD COME UP AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.

I'M THOMAS MORRIS FROM 1204 FIRST STREET, AND I'M ALSO CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSING AUTHORITY.

THAT PARCEL OF LAND BUMPS UP RIGHT NEXT TO THE PUBLIC HOUSING, AND FOR YEARS IT WAS OWNED BY [INAUDIBLE].

[INAUDIBLE] DONATED IT TO THE CITY, I THINK, IN 2018, AND THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB, WHEN THEY GOT ESTABLISHED, THEY USED IT, AND I THINK THE BASKETBALL COURT MAY HAVE BEEN PUT IN BY THEM.

THE FENCING WAS PUT IN BY PUBLIC HOUSING, AND WE'VE BEEN MAINTAINING THAT PIECE OF LAND EVER SINCE THEY'VE BEEN THERE, AND WE KEEP IT CUT THE FENCING AND THE KIDS ARE USING IT.

THE BASKETBALL COURT WAS A PLUS BECAUSE IT WAS PUT THERE FOR, I THINK, BEFORE RYANAIR DONATED IT BUT IT'S GETTING A LOT OF USE, AND LOOKING AT THAT STATE STATUE, I THINK, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO DO THIS, BUT THEY DO HAVE AN OPTION TO DONATE TO A NON-PROFIT, SO THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.

SO THAT LAND, THAT PIECE OF IT'S JUST A SMALL PIECE OF LAND ABOUT 30FT.

THEY COULD CONTINUE TO USE IT BECAUSE WE NEED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF FACILITIES FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, AND JUST NOTICING THE CITY FOR A WHILE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE WERE FORGETTING OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

YES, WE'RE DOING ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A PLAN AT ONE TIME TO MOVE THE ATLANTIC PARK, THE BASEBALL FIELDS AND ALL.

WE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE OUR FUTURE.

WE'VE BEEN HERE ALL OUR LIFE.

I WAS BORN HERE, SO I WANT TO SEE SOMETHING LEFT FOR MY KIDS AND MY KIDS' KIDS.

SO LET'S THINK ABOUT IT.

THAT'S A GOOD I'M JUST PUTTING THAT OUT THERE.

SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO ASK THEM IF THEY WOULD, AND IF YOU COULD JUST STAND BY JUST FOR A SECOND.

DAPHNE, CAN YOU FIND THAT ON THE GIS AND HELP US ALL PINPOINT EXACTLY THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE? THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

SO THIS IS THE AMERICA'S YOUTH PROPERTY HERE, AND THAT HERE IS THE PARCEL THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING FOR REZONING.

[00:20:03]

THAT WHOLE THAT WHOLE AREA THERE.

THAT'S THE COURT RIGHT THERE.

YEAH.

THE OTHER PARTS ARE JUST PICNIC TABLES, AND WHEN THEY HAVE LITTLE SPECIAL EVENTS, CHRISTMAS PARTIES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THEY USE ALL THAT.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU. IS THAT WHOLE AREA FENCE? I KNOW PART OF IT ON THE NO THAT FENCE GOES ALL THE WAY FROM WHERE THE BOYS AND I MEAN, FROM HERE.

OKAY. ALL OF THAT'S FENCED IN ALL THE WAY AROUND THAT WHOLE IT IS OKAY.

I WASN'T SURE I COULDN'T, AND DID THAT FOR SAFETY BECAUSE YOU HAD A LOT OF LITTLE KIDS THERE.

YEAH THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SIR.

MR. MORRIS, ARE YOU MAINTAINING THE FACILITY NOW? EVEN THOUGH IT'S ON CITY PROPERTY, WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT.

SO THE CITY'S NOT HELPING? NO, I MEAN, YOU'RE MOWING THE GRASS, YOU'RE REPLACING THE NETS, YOU'RE CLEANING THE COURT.

YEAH, IT'S UNDER OUR CONTRACT WITH THE MAINTENANCE GUY THAT CUT ALL OF THE PROPERTIES, AND THAT'S PART OF IT.

I REMEMBER WHEN THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB WAS THERE AND DOING THAT.

I MEAN, SURE, I WAS SURPRISED THE CITY OWNED IT, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

IT SEEMED LIKE IT WOULD BE A HOUSING AUTHORITY.

WELL, [INAUDIBLE] WANTED TO QUIT PAYING TAXES ON IT AND THEY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.

SO THEY DONATED IT TO THE CITY AND HEY, FOR $10, THAT WAS A BIG GIFT.

[CHUCKLING] I WISH I COULD GET A PIECE FOR THAT.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SO REALLY, THE CITY'S GETTING A BIT OF A BENEFIT BECAUSE THEY'RE PROVIDING A LEVEL OF MAINTENANCE ON THE PROPERTY AND THAT IS IN EFFECT, CITY PROPERTY SHOULD BE MAINTAINED BY THE CITY. YEAH.

ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD.

SO, MA'AM.

GO AHEAD. YES, I'M RUBY BAKER.

I AM THE PASTOR OF NEW JERUSALEM ON 10TH STREET, AND THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY, IT CONCERNED US.

I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS LOCATED.

SO THAT'S THE REASON THAT I'M HERE.

BECAUSE IT WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH US AT ALL, BUT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS ON THE PROPERTY OR IDEAS OF PUTTING SOMETHING THERE.

SO THAT'S WHY THE CHURCH WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, BUT SINCE IT'S ALREADY THERE, WE HAVE NO OBJECTIONS TO IT.

THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE YOU COMING TO SEE US TODAY.

THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? ALL RIGHT, WELL, THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR, BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE HEARING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I THINK THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR.

YES. YEAH. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT, SO WHERE ARE WE? HERE. ARE WE LIKE A MOTION? I WOULD LIKE A MOTION.

I WILL MAKE A MOTION.

I MOVE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF PAB CASE 2023-0052 TO THE CITY COMMISSION REQUESTING REASSIGNMENT OF THE CITY'S FUTURE LAND USE MAP.

CATEGORY OF MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL MDR AND ZONING DISTRICT OF R-2 TO THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH REC.

FUTURE LAND USE MAP CATEGORY AND THE RECREATION REC ZONING DISTRICT FOR PROPERTY LOCATED ON INDIGO STREET BLOCK 169 LOTS 1, 2, 31 AND 32 BE APPROVED AND THAT THE I'M SORRY AND THAT THE PAB CASE 2023-0052 AS PRESENTED IS SUFFICIENTLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE TO BE APPROVED AT THIS TIME.

THANK YOU, MR. STEVENSON.

DO I HEAR A SECOND? SECOND. WHO WANTS TO SAY WHO? RICHARD, HE BEAT ME? ALL RIGHT. RICHARD, MR. DOSTER GAVE US A SECOND.

ANY OTHER FURTHER DISCUSSION? I WOULD LIKE, MADAM CHAIR, TO.

HAVE THE CITY COMMISSION CONSIDER DEDICATING THIS PROPERTY TO THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IF THE HOUSING AUTHORITY WANTS IT.

CITY'S NOT VERY GOOD AT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IS.

SO I THINK THEY COULD PROBABLY DO A BETTER JOB WITH IT IF IT WAS UNDER THEIR OWNERSHIP THAN THE CITY HAS DONE.

SO AT LEAST HAVE THAT AS A SIDE ITEM IF WE COULD.

IS THAT SOMETHING STAFF OR TAMMI, THAT YOU COULD TAKE FORWARD FOR US THAT WOULD BE MOST APPRECIATED? THAT WAS A VERY GOOD RECOMMENDATION.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TAMMI, DO WE NEED ANY KIND OF OF MOTION OR ANYTHING FROM? IT DOESN'T HURT. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

ALL RIGHT. WHEN WE FINISH THIS ONE, WE'LL COME BACK.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

SO WE'VE HAD A MOTION.

WE'VE HAD SECOND AND DISCUSSION.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED LIKE SIGN.

HEARING NONE. THE MOTION IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

MADAM CHAIR. I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE RECOMMEND THE CITY COMMISSION, THAT IF THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IS WILLING TO ACCEPT IT, THAT WE DEDICATE THIS TO THE CITY, DEDICATES

[00:25:03]

SECOND. SECOND.

IS DEDICATE AND DONATE THE SAME THING.

DONATE. YEAH.

GIVE IT TO THEM.

THAT'S OKAY. GIVE IT TO THEM.

YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

OKAY. DO YOU WANT TO REFERENCE THIS PAB CASE TO TIE.

THAT'S A GOOD POINT. YEAH.

IS IT LOTS 1, 2, 31 AND 32 BLOCK 169 INDIGO STREET OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD.

SO WE'VE HAD A MOTION.

WE'VE HAD A SECOND FROM MR. STEVENSON. ALL RIGHT.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE A POINT THAT THERE'S FOUR LOTS HERE THAT WON'T BE DEVELOPED INTO HOUSES.

THERE WE GO, AND IT WILL BE GOOD RECREATION FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED? LIKE SIGN.

HEARING NONE.

THE MOTION IS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BOARD BUSINESS. DAPHNE, IS THERE ANY BOARD BUSINESS FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

[6. BOARD BUSINESS]

I'D LIKE TO ASK TAMMI.

THERE WAS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TO SEE US TODAY.

THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING AND COMMENTING.

I APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OH, I'M SORRY YOU WERE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING.

I'M SORRY. I'M GOING TO ASK TAMMI A QUICK QUESTION, BUT I'D LIKE FOR THESE FOLKS.

THIS WAS A GOOD GROUP HERE TO OFFER SUPPORT FOR THIS, AND THEY DIDN'T YELL AT US.

NO, [INAUDIBLE].

THIS WAS GREAT. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

YEAH, YOU BROUGHT UP SOMETHING I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT LATER WHEN WE GET DONE WITH THIS.

OKAY. THIS IS GREAT.

OKAY. AT THE CITY COMMISSION MEETING, THERE WAS A QUESTION, AND I THOUGHT YOU DID A GOOD JOB OF ANSWERING THE QUESTION, BUT I THOUGHT MAYBE IF MAYBE SOME OF THE OTHER MEMBERS WEREN'T HERE, HERE AT THAT MEETING, THAT MAYBE YOU CAN HELP US WITH THIS.

IT WAS IN REFERENCE TO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE STATE STATUTE AND HOW WE WILL EXTEND SEWER AND WATER FOR PROPERTIES THAT ARE NOT ACTUALLY ALREADY CONTIGUOUS, AND I THINK THAT WE'VE CERTAINLY I HAVE ASSUMED BECAUSE IT'S BEEN PART OF OUR PROCESS FOR SO LONG, BUT I THOUGHT THAT YOU HAD SOME GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT IT, AND I THOUGHT THAT.

BY BRINGING IN THE DOCUMENTATION OR SOME POINTS THAT WE COULD LOOK AT MAYBE HELP US, IF WE ARE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO BE ABLE TO.

SO IS IT SPECIFICALLY WHEN THE CITIZEN CAME UP, MISS CARRIE, TO ASK ABOUT THE STATUTE.

THE STATUTE FOR VOLUNTEER, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION.

THAT'S CORRECT, AND THAT'S COVERED UNDER 171.044 OF THE STATUTES, AND THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH TALKS ABOUT A PETITION FOR ANNEXATION IS TO BE RECEIVED FROM THE CITY WHEN A PROPERTY OWNER IS CONTIGUOUS IN ALL OF THAT.

SO THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.

IT'S 173--171.044.

YOU CAN PULL IT UP IF YOU WANT TO IF YOU DON'T MIND BECAUSE IT'S THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH.

SO I CAN SEE HOW WHEN SOMEBODY READS THAT THEY SAY, OH, WELL, THE CITY CANNOT BE COLLECTING THE ANNEXATION AGREEMENT, SAYS ANNEXATION, VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION AGREEMENT, AND THEN I THINK IT'S SLASH PETITION FOR ANNEXATION.

SO WHAT WHAT THE ANNEXATION AGREEMENT IS, IS THAT AND I WAS WORKING ON I DON'T KEEP LIKE A FILE NECESSARILY OF CASES BECAUSE I CAN PULL THEM UP PRETTY QUICKLY.

SO I WAS DOING SOME SEARCHES TODAY.

THERE'S CASE LAW THAT ALLOWS FOR A CONTRACT TO BE SIGNED.

THAT'S WHAT THE VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION AGREEMENT AND PETITION IS.

IT'S A CONTRACT.

WE KNOW THAT THESE PROPERTIES ARE NOT CONTIGUOUS, OR THERE ARE MANY THAT ARE NOT CONTIGUOUS THAT ASK FOR CITY WATER AND OR SEWER.

SO WE THEN PRESENT THEM WITH THE AGREEMENT.

SO THERE'S A CASE ON THAT I WILL PULL UP.

IF YOU WANT TO READ CASE LAW THAT'S FINE.

THAT SAYS THAT IS ABSOLUTELY ALLOWABLE FOR THE CITY TO DO A VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION AGREEMENT, AND IF THE PROPERTY OWNER DOES NOT SIGN IT, THEY DON'T GET SERVICES.

SO THAT IS THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.

THAT'S WELL-SETTLED IN THE LAW, PETITIONS FOR ANNEXATION IN THAT PUREST SENSE.

IF SOMEBODY COMES TO THE CITY AND PETITIONS THE CITY FOR ANNEXATION, THEY'RE FILLING OUT A FORM AND SAY, I'M CONTIGUOUS TO THE CITY,

[00:30:03]

THAT'S REALLY ALL IT MEANS.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE CITY CAN'T.

THERE'S THE LAW THAT SAYS WE CAN REQUIRE THE VOLUNTARY ANNEXATION AGREEMENT, AND THEN AND I HAVE TWO CASES THAT I DEFENDED, ANNEXATION CASES I DEFENDED SUCCESSFULLY FOR THE CITY. ONE WAS THE GATEWAY OFFICE COMPLEX AT THE FOOT OF THE SHAVE BRIDGE, AND THE OTHER WAS THE PALMS OF AMELIA CONDOS.

IS IT PALMS OF AMELIA? SOMETHING LIKE THAT. PALMS ON NECTARINE.

THOSE CUTE CONDOS.

I LOVE THEIR PAINT JOB, TOO.

THEY HAD SIGNED ANNEXATION AGREEMENTS 15, 20 YEARS BEFORE WE CAME KNOCKING.

WE GOT CONTIGUOUS AND THEIR ATTORNEY SAID, WE'RE NOT ANNEXING.

WE'RE GOING TO OBJECT AND WE'RE GOING TO FILE A WRIT OF CERTIORARI IN THE COURT, AND THEY DID, AND THEY LOST BOTH TIMES.

EACH ONE HAD SIGNED ANNEXATION AGREEMENTS, PETITIONS AT THE AT THOSE YEARS BEFORE.

NOW, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE A HOOT ABOUT IT AT, LET'S SAY WE ARE SIGNING ANNEXATION AGREEMENTS, HOOKING UP TO CITY SERVICES, AND THEN 20 YEARS LATER, SOMEBODY SAYS, OH, WELL, I DIDN'T SIGN A PETITION.

SO YOU DON'T GET TO ANNEX ME.

WELL, YOU'RE BOUND BY CONTRACT TO SIGN ANOTHER ONE.

IF WE ASK YOU TO OR THREE MORE FOR THAT SAME PROPERTY.

SO THAT CASE I FOUND TODAY.

IS THAT A RECORDED CONTRACT? IT IS.

SO REALLY THAT SHOULD HAVE IF A PROPERTY CHANGES HANDS THEY KNOW ABOUT IT.

THEY KNOW IT COMES UP IN THE TITLE SEARCH.

ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. YEP.

SO I AM THAT'S THE ONE THING.

WHEN I DEFENDED THE ANNEXATION CASES I DIDN'T EVEN SEND THEM TO INSURANCE BECAUSE THAT'S MY BAILIWICK I LOVE ANNEXATION.

THE LAST JURISDICTION I CAME FROM THERE WERE IN PINELLAS COUNTY, THERE ARE 23 CITIES THERE AND A COUNTY, AND EVERYBODY WHERE THE SERVICE PROVIDERS, THERE'S 4 OR 5 THAT HAVE SEWER, WATER, WHATEVER.

EVERYBODY'S LINES WERE KIND OF THEY WERE COMPETING FOR TO GROW THEIR CITY.

SO I LEARNED A LOT, AND SO I AM NOT AFRAID OF ANNEXATION LEGAL QUESTIONS AT ALL.

GOOD, I THINK, AT ALL.

I APPRECIATE YOU AND I'M HAPPY TO SHARE THOSE.

I'LL JUST SEND THEM TO THE PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS.

WHAT I SEND TO MISS CARRIE. SHE EMAILED ME TODAY AND ASKED FOR THE CASES, SO NO PROBLEM.

I HAVE A QUESTION. YES, WHICH I'VE ASKED YOU SEVERAL TIMES IN THE PAST ABOUT COUNTY POCKET.

WHEN A COUNTY POCKET IS SURROUNDED BY CITY LIMITS.

YES. AT ONE TIME I THOUGHT THE CITY COULD REQUIRE.

ANNEXATION TO THE CITY AND YOU'RE SMILING.

I'VE SEEN THAT SMILE BEFORE, BUT COULD YOU TELL? BECAUSE I REMEMBER BECAUSE I KNOW THE ANSWER, AND I REMEMBER US TALKING ABOUT IT.

SO ONLY IF IT'S COMMERCIAL.

SO GOOD EXAMPLE.

YES, I'M PICKING ON THEM, BUT THE ISLAND ISLAND FALLS MINI GOLF USED TO BE IN THE CITY.

THEY DE-ANNEXED THAT PROPERTY AT THE REQUEST OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE CITY.

YOU CAN PETITION THE CITY COMMISSION AND THAT'S UNDER THAT ANNEXATION LAW TOO, AND THE CITY LET THEM LEAVE THE CITY LIMITS.

SO THAT IS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY 100% SURROUNDED.

IT'S A TRUE ENCLAVE, AND WHAT THE STATUTE SAYS IS FOR NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE COUNTY.

SO THE COUNTY HAS TO JOIN US AND WE COULD ACTUALLY DO AN ANNEXATION ORDINANCE EVEN IF THE PROPERTY OWNER AT THE MINI GOLF, BECAUSE IT'S NOT RESIDENTIAL, OPPOSED IT, BUT THE COUNTY.

WHEN I ASKED TACO POPE I'M SMIRKING BECAUSE I SENT HIM AN EMAIL.

I SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, AND HE WAS LIKE, WHAT IS THE PROPERTY OWNER THINK? AND I THOUGHT THERE'S THE COUNTY'S ANSWER.

THEY'RE NOT JUMPING ON BOARD WITH US.

SO ISLAND FALLS FOR NOW WILL STAY AS AN UNINCORPORATED ENCLAVE FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.

THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS TO SIGN CONSENT OR PETITION.

YES. NICK, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I THOUGHT YOUR PALMS EXAMPLE WAS PERFECT BECAUSE THAT STARTED OUT AS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.

IT DID A CONDO CONVERSION, AND SO THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER, WHO I KNOW MADE IT AN APARTMENT COMPLEX, AND THEN HE CONVERTED IT INTO 80 INDIVIDUAL OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, INDIVIDUAL OWNERS.

SO THEY THOUGHT, WELL, 80 INDIVIDUAL OWNERS.

I DIDN'T SIGN IT BECAUSE IT WAS A PERFECT COMPLEX, BUT SO THAT SHOWS YOU EVEN IN SUBDIVISIONS, WHEN A DEVELOPER SIGNS, IT SELLS OFF 100 LOTS AND THERE'S 100 INDIVIDUAL OWNERS, THEY'RE STILL BOUND BY THAT LEGAL DESCRIPTION IN WHICH IT'S PART OF IT.

I DO THINK IT OUGHT TO BE PART OF THE DEED MYSELF.

I THINK A TITLE COMPANY SHOULD PICK IT UP.

YEAH. SO THEY KNOW WHAT'S COMING AT LEAST.

WELL, THEY PICK IT UP AS AN ENCUMBRANCE.

RIGHT. BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S ON THERE REALLY.

THEY DON'T SHOW IT. OH, INTERESTING, BUT WE DO RECORD THEM.

YOU DO, AND WE HAVE TO.

THE STATUTE SAYS WE HAVE TO SEND A NOTICE TO THE COUNTY ALL OF THAT WHEN WE'RE DOING IT.

SO EVERYBODY'S ON NOTICE.

THE STAFF REPORT HAS ANNEXATION IS ABOUT SERVICES.

[00:35:02]

SO THEY PUT THIS PROCESS IN PLACE.

OKAY. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME, I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE DID FOR VISION 2045, FOR THE LONG TERM PLAN, WE WANTED TO GET RID OF SEPTIC TANKS WAS A MILESTONE. THAT SAID, WE WILL NOT HAVE OKAY IF THEY'RE OUTSIDE THE CITY.

IT'S A PRETTY GOOD PROBABILITY A LOT OF THAT LAND IS GOING TO COME INTO THE CITY.

SO WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED WHAT WE WANT TO STRATEGICALLY SAYING IS WE ARE RECEIVING A REVENUE STREAM TO OUR UTILITIES DEPARTMENT FOR, IN EFFECT, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT EXCESS CAPACITY RIGHT NOW, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO I DIDN'T WANT TO JUST GO ON AND ON LAST NIGHT.

I MEAN, AND I COULD ABOUT THIS STUFF WHEN I SAID THE SERVICES.

SO YOU MADE A GREAT POINT.

THE EXTRA 25% SURCHARGE, THAT MONEY GOES INTO THE UTILITIES FUND, US TAXPAYERS THAT PAY FOR THE POLICE AND FIRE THAT THESE FOLKS GET, WE DON'T GET COMPENSATED UNTIL WE COLLECT THE TAX REVENUE WHEN THEY'RE ANNEXED IN.

SO THAT 25% STAYS IN UTILITIES.

THAT'S JUST INTO THE UTILITY FUND THAT'S IN EFFECT.

IT'S THERE, BUT IT ADDS ONE MORE PROPERTY THAT COULD BE CONTIGUOUS TO OTHERS THAT HAVE SIGNED THE ANNEXATION AGREEMENT, SO THAT ONCE ONE DOMINO FALLS, THEY ALL FALL.

YEAH THEY DO. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS STRATEGICALLY.

I THINK IT'S SMART.

YEAH, SMART MOVE.

GOOD. ANY OTHER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MISS BACH? THANK YOU TAMMI. YOU'RE WELCOME.

APPRECIATE THAT. I'LL SEND THAT EMAIL.

APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER BOARD BUSINESS BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO MR.--I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS BOARD BUSINESS OR OLD BUSINESS, BUT I WANTED TO JUST BRING UP NEXT TIME WE HAVE A LIGHT AGENDA. MAYBE WE COULD PICK UP NEXT DESIRE TO TALK ABOUT PUDS AND THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY NECESSARY TO HAVE ONE.

I'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT TALK, AND I SECOND THAT MOTION.

OKAY, GOOD. OKAY, DAPHNE, WE'LL JUST PUT THAT ON OUR THINKING CAPS SO THAT NEXT TIME WE LOOK AT OUR AGENDA, LET'S SEE IF WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN. DID YOU ALL MAKE THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND DONATION OF THAT PROPERTY? WE DID. I WAS DAYDREAMING THAT, SORRY.

NO WORRIES. OKAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

STAFF REPORT. DAPHNE.

YES, I HAVE A VERY SIMPLE UPDATE FOR EVERYONE.

[7. STAFF REPORT]

WHEN THE LANGUAGE IS PRESENTABLE, IT WILL COME BACK TO THE PAB [INAUDIBLE] YOU WILL REVIEW AND VOTE.

VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. SO IT WILL GO TO THE.

IT WILL BE DISCUSSED AT A WORKSHOP.

YES. SO WHEN WE SEE THE LANGUAGE NEXT WE ARE SEEING LANGUAGE THAT THE COMMISSION HAS SEEN AND ESSENTIALLY APPROVED, IF NOT FORMALLY, BUT WE WILL KNOW IT'S LANGUAGE THEY LIKE.

THEY'RE BRINGING IT FORWARD. YES.

GOTCHA. THANK YOU. CAN I EXPOUND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT? OKAY. BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN ASKED THE QUESTION BY COMMISSIONER ROSS, AND I THINK ANOTHER CITIZEN MAY HAVE LAID OUT THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCESS.

SO THE WAY THAT THIS WORKS AND THIS IS HOW IT WORKS ANYTIME IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE MARRYING THE FLUME MAP AND THE ZONING MAP, THESE WERE ALL CITY APPLICATIONS AND THEY PROCESSED JUST LIKE A REGULAR APPLICATION.

THE APPLICATION FORM IS FILLED OUT.

ALL THE BACKUP MATERIALS HAVE TO BE THERE.

SO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS IF ON NOVEMBER 21ST, THE CITY COMMISSION PROVIDES DIRECTION AND THE MAJORITY DIRECTS THROUGH THE CITY MANAGER STAFF TO MAKE CHANGES TO LANGUAGE OTHER THAN WHAT'S THERE OR SAYS MOVE ON WITH WHAT'S THERE.

THEY PROVIDE ENOUGH DIRECTION THAT WE CAN DO AN APPLICATION.

STAFF IS GOING TO COMPLETE AN APPLICATION FOR A LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT, AND IT'S GOING TO BE PROCESSED JUST LIKE THAT, AND IT WOULD COME TO YOU AS AN APPLICATION, JUST LIKE YOU SEE THE LANGUAGE WITH THE HIGHLIGHTED YELLOW, THE STRIKETHROUGHS, THE UNDERLINES, JUST LIKE THAT.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'LL SEE AND YOU WILL RULE ON IT AND MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION JUST LIKE IT WAS ANY OTHER APPLICATION.

UP, DOWN, CHANGE IT, WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO.

OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION, AND THEN AFTER THE APPLICATION GETS THE RECOMMENDATION, WE KNOW ABOUT A MONTH LATER IT'LL MOVE TO THE CITY COMMISSION.

OKAY. SO YEAH, EXCELLENT QUESTION.

THEN THE NOVEMBER 21ST WORKSHOP WILL BE AT 5:00 I BELIEVE.

IT'S 5:00. YES, AND JUST THE REGULAR MEETING IS THE REGULAR MEETING.

[00:40:01]

THEY ARE GOING TO DISCUSS THIS BETWEEN 5 AND 6:00.

IF THEY FEEL LIKE THEY WISH TO CONTINUE IT TO THE REGULAR MEETING, THEY CAN DO THAT.

OKAY, OKAY, BUT I'M NOT SURE YET WHAT THEY'LL DO.

OKAY. GOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THAT'S VERY GOOD.

PUBLIC COMMENT. IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD AND MAKE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON, PLEASE COME AHEAD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS,

[8. PUBLIC COMMENT]

BOARD MEMBERS, STAFF MEMBERS, MISS BACH, THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE CITY.

I KNOW YOU'RE A CITIZEN GROUP, AND NOBODY'S PAYING FOR YOU.

THIS FOR YOU, AND I DON'T WANT YOUR JOB, BUT I JUST WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION.

I'M GOING TO RELY HEAVILY ON MS. BACH TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M NOT SAYING SOMETHING INCORRECTLY.

SO I'M GOING TO RELY HEAVILY UPON YOU THIS EVENING.

OKAY. THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH 103.04 AND 103.05.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF CITIZENS THAT ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THESE CHANGES.

SO IF IT'S OKAY WITH EVERYBODY, I'M JUST GOING TO GIVE LIKE A LITTLE HYPOTHETICAL OF A SITUATION.

THEN I WOULD LOVE IT IF YOU COULD TELL ME IF THAT COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

GIVEN OUR CURRENT CODE, WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED AS THE 50 FOOT, AND THEN THERE'S ONE WITH THE THREE WITH 25 FOOT LOTS.

OKAY, SO I MAY HAVE TO ASK DAPHNE TO WEIGH-IN BECAUSE I DON'T MEMORIZE THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SO SETBACKS AND PARKING.

OH, THIS IS EASY.

THIS IS LIKE, SO SUPER DUPER SIMPLE.

EASY. OKAY. FOURTH GRADE.

OKAY, OKAY, SO WE HAVE A 75 FOOT BY 200 FOOT LOT, AND LET'S SAY ON ONE END OF IT IS THREE AIRBNBS, AND LET'S SAY ON THE OTHER END OF IT IS A HOUSE AND PROBABLY A SHED OR SOMETHING, BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S GOT A GARAGE OR A SHED, BUT LET'S SAY THE OTHER END OF THE PROPERTY, A HOUSE SITS ON IT AND THE HOUSE HAS THREE UNDERLYING 25 FOOT LOTS. SO IS IT POSSIBLE, GIVEN THE THREE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SCENARIOS WE HAVE, CAN A PERSON TAKE DOWN THAT HOUSE AND PUT UP THREE NEW STRUCTURES AND THEN PUT A POOL IN THE MIDDLE? IS THAT POSSIBLE? WELL LET'S SEE.

OKAY. I CAN'T EVEN WRITE IT DOWN.

DID YOU SAY YOUR NAME? KIM WOOLFORD AND I LIVE BEHIND THE FUNERAL HOME.

WHERE YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE CLOSE, RIGHT? YES, IT'S GOING TO BE SHORT.

YES. OH, I LOVE--YOU'RE SO GOOD.

OKAY, SO IF YOU COULD HELP BECAUSE THIS IS KIND OF A--I THINK IT'S AN EASY ANSWER.

OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. OKAY.

SO THE HOUSE THE MAIN PRIMARY STRUCTURE STRADDLES TOUCHES THREE LOTS.

IT SITS ON TWO. IT SITS COMPLETELY ON TWO OF THE LOTS.

TWO OF THE LOTS. THERE'S A THIRD ONE.

THERE'S A THIRD ONE OPEN. SO DO YOU WANT AN ANSWER FOR EACH OF THE SCENARIOS.

WHAT WE HAVE. YES. YES THAT'S MY QUESTION OKAY.

SO WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

THE EMPTY LOT OKAY COULD BE DEVELOPED.

YOU CAN PUT A POOL ON IT.

YOU CAN PUT A HOUSE ON IT.

WAIT, [INAUDIBLE]. YOU SAID THERE'S A THIRD LOT THAT ISN'T TOUCHED BY ANYTHING.

OKAY? RIGHT. OH, I SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING OKAY.

SO THE THIRD LOT IS NOT TOUCHED BY ANY STRUCTURES WHATSOEVER.

SO UNDER MY SCENARIO.

SO UNDER TODAY'S CODE, SOMEBODY COULD COME IN AND PULL A BUILDING PERMIT TO BUILD A HOUSE ON THAT 25 FOOT LOT THAT'S OPEN.

OKAY. IF THEY WANT TO USE THE TWO LOTS THAT THE HOUSE SITS ON TODAY, THEY HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE, OKAY, TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN BUILD BACK ONE HOUSE, ONE UNIT. OKAY.

THAT'S THE ANSWER FOR THE FIRST SCENARIO OKAY.

THE SECOND IS A PROPOSAL TO, AND YOU SAID THERE IS A SWIMMING POOL.

NO I'M JUST SAYING LIKE LET'S JUST PRETEND THEY WANT TO PUT LIKE THERE WOULD BE BOOKENDS ON EACH, AND A BIG SWIMMING POOL IN THE MIDDLE.

YEAH, SURE.

I MEAN, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT I THINK WHAT YOU WANT TO CONCENTRATE ON, BECAUSE I KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON THIS, YOU'VE MADE IT VERY CLEAR IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THE EMPTY LOTS AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ONES THAT ARE ENCUMBERED AND WHEN I SAY ENCUMBERED, I MEAN BY THE MAIN HOUSE OR UNIT, AND THEN ENCUMBRANCES LIKE SHEDS, POOLS, DECKS, THAT KIND OF THING.

RIGHT. SO TODAY SHEDS, DECKS, POOLS ARE TREATED JUST LIKE THE MAIN HOUSE.

IF IT TOUCHES A LOT YOU HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE RIGHT, BUT IF THERE ARE LOTS THAT ARE EMPTY OKAY.

[00:45:06]

OKAY. JUST PULL A BUILDING PERMIT.

ALL RIGHT OKAY. NOW WE USE SETBACKS.

I MEAN THERE'S SETBACKS, LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS BUFFER, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT COULD COME INTO PLAY.

PARKING REQUIREMENTS. SO THAT WILL WILL DETERMINE HOW BIG YOU GET TO BUILD ON AN EMPTY LOT.

SO THE OTHER SCENARIO THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND STAFF BELIEVES VICE MAYOR STURGIS IS RECOMMENDING IS THAT ANY LOTS THAT HAVE SWIMMING POOLS, SHEDS AND OTHER ACCESSORIES TYPE STRUCTURES YOU CAN PRETEND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SITE THAT THOSE AREN'T EVEN THERE AND YOU CAN BUILD ON THOSE SITES, WHEREAS TODAY YOU HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE.

OKAY, OKAY, DON'T THINK ABOUT TRINGALI RIGHT NOW.

I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT. I'M NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT THAT, BUT I'M SAYING TRINGALI IN THE SENSE THAT THERE'S OPEN LOTS BUILT ON LOTS ACCESSORY AND REAL HOMES, AND THAT WENT RIGHT TO A SUBDIVISION.

THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO GET BUILDINGS ON THE UNDERLYING LOTS OF RECORD THAT ARE BASICALLY USING EVERYTHING YOU GOT, RIGHT.

OKAY. SO THE SECOND SCENARIO, YOU CAN BUILD WHEREVER THOSE ACCESSORY DWELLINGS ARE.

NO VARIANCE NEEDED.

IF YOU WANT TO BUILD MORE THAN ONE HOUSE WHERE THE ONE HOUSE IS, YOU HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE.

OKAY. OKAY.

SO I'M GLAD YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

I THINK I DO, ACTUALLY, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT TRINGALI AT ALL.

TRINGALI IS NOT EVEN IN MY HEAD. THE REASON I BROUGHT THAT UP WAS NOT BECAUSE OF THE DISPUTE OVER IT.

IT WAS BECAUSE WE TREATED THAT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE JUST LIKE IN THE FLOW CHART AND THE DISCUSSION AND IT IT CAME REALLY TO LIGHT FOR ME TO AT THAT AT THAT JOINT MEETING IS ANY TIME THERE IS A REQUEST TO TAKE A SITE LIKE TRINGALI, THIS IS JUST HOW STAFF IS TREATING IT AND SUBDIVIDE IT.

THE QUESTION FROM STAFF IS, WELL, HOW MANY LOTS DO YOU WANT TO CREATE IN YOUR SUBDIVISION? AND IN THAT CASE THEY HAVE 20 UNDERLYING LOTS.

IF YOU IGNORE EVERYTHING THAT'S BUILT AND THEY HAD 12, THEY HAD 12 AVAILABLE BUILDING SITES BASED ON WHAT'S THERE AND WHAT'S OPEN, AND THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO BUILD 12 EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD 20 ON THE MAP.

THAT IS WHEN CITY STAFF HAS SENT IT TO SUBDIVISION AND IGNORED THE VARIANCE OF 103.05 AND THEN IN THE THIRD, AND THEN IF THEY WANTED ALL 20, I WANT TO DO A 20 HOME SUBDIVISION.

I WANT 20 TOWNHOMES.

IF THAT WAS THE TRINGALI CASE, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO A VARIANCE.

SO I'M JUST KIND OF ACTUALLY TRINGALI THIS IS NOT ABOUT TRINGALI.

I'M JUST ASKING, CAN SOMEBODY REALLY DO THAT IF WE GO TO 25 FOOT LOTS? BECAUSE THAT'S LIKE LIVING NEXT TO A MOTEL, AND I MEAN, WHO WANTS TO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO SIX AIRBNBS AND A POOL IN THE MIDDLE? I MEAN, I WON'T BE AIRBNBS BECAUSE WE DON'T ALLOW THAT EXCEPT IN MULTIFAMILY ZONING.

OKAY, WELL, LET'S SEE, THERE'S MY QUESTION.

SO FAR UNTIL THE STATE PREEMPTS US SOMEDAY, THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.

OKAY. OKAY.

SO UNDER MAJOR STURGIS'S PLAN, SOMEBODY COULD ACTUALLY DO THAT, AND IS THAT OKAY BUT NOW THEY CAN'T? CORRECT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UNDER STURGIS'S PLAN, YOUR SCENARIO HAD NO ACCESSORY USES, RIGHT.

SO THEY WOULD BE IDENTICAL BETWEEN NOW AND STURGIS'S PLAN.

SEE, NOW YOU'RE GETTING ME CONFUSED.

THAT'S WHY I'M OLD.

THAT'S WHY I WANTED YOU TO KIND OF THINK AWAY FROM YOUR PAPER FOR A SECOND AND JUST THINK ABOUT, AND THAT'S WHY I POINTED OUT TRINGALI BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE . IT'S AN EASY EXAMPLE, OR THE [INAUDIBLE] THAT WE USE AT THE JOINT MEETING.

THAT'S ALSO AN EASY EXAMPLE, BUT CURRENTLY.

SO EXPLAIN TO ME. SO IF THERE'S A SHED ON THE BACK THE SHED DOESN'T MATTER EITHER.

THE SHED DOES NOW. NOW IT DOES.

NOW YOU HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD WHERE THAT SHED IS.

ALL RIGHT. THERE WE GO.

YEAH. IT'S THE ONLY DIFFERENCE, AND THEN TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE CONFUSING, PLEASE, PLEASE.

YES. THE THIRD EXAMPLE, THAT WORSE SCENARIO IS WHAT COMMISSIONER ASKEW BROUGHT UP, AND THAT IS, INSTEAD OF JUST IGNORING THE VARIANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES WHERE THERE'S ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, YOU DON'T NEED A VARIANCE IF YOU'RE WILLING TO PUT LET'S CALL IT WHAT TWO UNDERLYING LOTS TOGETHER, AND THAT WOULD BE THE SMALLEST BUILDING THAT YOU HAVE.

THAT'S THE THAT'S THE THIRD SCENARIO THAT COMMISSIONER ASKEW RECOMMENDED.

ABOUT 50FT.

50FT.

SO I'M JUST ASSUMING 25 FOOT, 50 FOOT OF FRONTAGE.

OKAY. SO IF THEY HAVE IF IT SITS ON TWO OF THOSE 25 FOOT LOTS, THEN AS IN ASKEW'S SCENARIO, A 50 FOOT HOUSE COULD BE

[00:50:03]

IT WAS OKAY. IF IT'S STAYED EMPTY, THAT'S STILL ALLOWABLE TO BUILD ON.

IS THAT CLEAR AS MUD? [CHUCKLING] MR. ROSS WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH.

YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S JUST A SCENARIO.

WHEN YOU MENTIONED FOURTH GRADE LEVEL, YOU HAVE MY WHEELHOUSE.

SO IT'S ABOUT [INAUDIBLE] AND I TEND TO THINK OF THIS I'M TESTING OUT A LESSON PLAN HERE.

I'M AN OLD TEACHER. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL WORK OR NOT, BUT I THINK OF THIS WHOLE SITUATION LIKE BLOCKS IN A CHOCOLATE HERSHEY BAR.

THIS IS GOOD. OKAY.

SO IF YOU'VE GOT SOME SCENARIOS, IF YOU WANT TO RUN BY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN ON THE BLOCKS OF THE HERSHEY BAR, THAT MIGHT BE THE EASY WAY TO EXPLAIN IT.

UH OH, SO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM BECAUSE I'M A GERMAPHOBE [INAUDIBLE] TOO, OKAY.

NO, NO, NO, IT'S CLEAR.

I'M JUST KIND OF WONDERING I THINK THAT THIS IS KIND OF ALMOST A DANGEROUS SCENARIO.

OR IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THREE AIRBNB BOOKENDS AND A POOL IN THE MIDDLE, AND THAT COULD REALLY REALISTICALLY HAPPEN, AM I RIGHT? I MEAN, FROM THE FACTS, YES.

THANK YOU, AND THE THING IS, IS THAT IF YOU DON'T LIVE ALREADY IN THIS SUBDIVISION THAT WAS SUBDIVIDED WITHIN THE LAST 40 YEARS, LET'S SAY, I MEAN, YOU'RE YOU'RE STUCK WITH, AS OUR CODE READS RIGHT NOW, THOSE UNDERLYING 25 FOOT LOTS OF RECORD.

IF SOMEBODY OWNS A FEW OF THEM AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TOUCHED, THEY'RE ENTITLED UNDER OUR CODE NOW TO PUT SOMETHING ON THEM AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE SMALL BECAUSE THEY'RE ONLY 25FT WIDE.

OKAY. THAT'S MY QUESTION.

THANK YOU I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU EVERYBODY.

HAVE A WONDERFUL THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[INAUDIBLE] COME AHEAD.

HANG ON HE'S GETTING HIS CANDY BAR.

OH, YOU'RE REMOVING THE CANDY? HE WAS WISE TO KNOW I WOULD EAT IT.

WOW. THANK YOU.

WOW. THAT'S AWESOME.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TINY CHRISTNER 406 BEACH STREET.

I HAVE ALL THIS KNOWLEDGE IN THE ROOM, SO I WOULD LOVE TO ASK A QUESTION.

THAT SAME SCENARIO THAT MS. WOOLFORD JUST REFERRED TO, AND I KNOW LIKE YOU CAN'T DOWNTOWN, YOU CAN'T DO AN AIRBNB SIX UNIT AIRBNB WITH A POOL IN THE MIDDLE, BUT IF THAT AND I'M NOT VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA ON THE BEACH, COULD SOMEBODY DO THAT IF LET'S SAY THAT LOT WAS ON FLETCHER ON ONE SIDE AND FIRST AVENUE ON THE OTHER, COULD IT TURN INTO SIX AIRBNBS WITH A POOL IN THE MIDDLE BEING THAT THERE'S 25 FOOT UNDERLYING LOTS ON IT? I DON'T KNOW WHY NOT.

IF IT WAS R-3.

IF IT'S R-3 ZONED THEN IT WOULD ALLOW FOR AIRBNBS.

AS FAR AS THE POOL IS CONCERNED.

YOU MEAN LIKE A SHARED POOL AMONG.

SO KIND OF LIKE A TINY HOME COMMUNITY BASICALLY.

OR LET'S SAY YOU WANTED TO DO LIKE TWO STORY WITH A ROOFTOP DECK SO YOU COULD SEE THE OCEAN FROM THERE MULTI-FAMILY SITUATION.

IF IT'S R-3 ZONED, YES, THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED.

SO THE CHANGE IN THE CURRENT LAW VERSUS THE CHANGE IN THE NEW LAW ON THE SIDE THAT HAS THE SINGLE HOUSE ON THE TWO LOTS. IF THERE WAS A SHED ON THE THIRD LOT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE TODAY, BUT IF THIS GETS APPROVED THAT COMMISSIONER STURGIS HAS BROUGHT FORWARD, THAT WOULDN'T HAVE TO GET APPROVED.

OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU.

TINY. ANYONE ELSE? MARGARET. JUST SAY SOMETHING ANYWAY.

[CHUCKLING] SAY SOMETHING ANYWAY.

A MEETING IS NOT A MEETING UNLESS YOU SAY SOMETHING TO US.

I CAN ALWAYS SAY IT OR ASK SOMETHING.

I'LL ASK A QUESTION.

TELL US HOW GREAT OF A JOB WE'RE DOING.

MARGARET KIRKLAND, 1377 PLANTATION POINTE DRIVE.

SO MY QUESTION IS FOR STAFF.

COULD YOU REMIND ME WHEN THE NEXT VULNERABILITY MEETING IS? I WILL HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.

I'M NOT SURE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I'LL LOOK BACK AT MY EMAILS AND I'LL SEND IT TO YOU VIA EMAIL.

OKAY. OKAY, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WHAT A GREAT PLEASURE IT IS TO HAVE SUCH A CIVILIZED MEETING FOLLOWING OUR EXPERIENCE LAST NIGHT. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. MARGARET.

ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE HAD PUBLIC COMMENT AS A FOLLOW UP.

ANYTHING FROM THE BOARD? AS ALWAYS, I APPRECIATE ALL THE CIVILITY THAT WE HAVE ON OUR BOARD.

[00:55:01]

ALL RIGHT IF I'M HEARING NOTHING ELSE FROM THE BOARD, NOTHING ELSE FROM THE STAFF, THEN WE ARE ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.