[00:00:02]
BETTER KNOWN AS THE HOGAN BUILDING WE GET.
I WILL CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING OF JUNE THE 15TH, 2023.
[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]
MISS SYLVIE, WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? MEMBER POYNTER. HERE.HERE. MEMBER KOSACK IS ABSENT AND MR. O'DONNELL HAS RESIGNED AND WE HAVE A NEW APPOINTEE, BUT THEY'RE NOT SWORN YET.
IF YOU'LL JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]
BOARD MEMBERS, HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE MINUTES OF THE PAB MEETING ON THAT WAS SORRY, THE JOINT PAB MEETING.I WAS NOT HERE FOR THAT. SO I TRUST YOU ALL.
AND THEN THE ALSO THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF MAY THE 18TH.
YES. ANY ADJUSTMENTS? I DO BELIEVE THAT ON THE JOINT MEETING THAT THE ATTENDEES MIGHT BE INACCURATE.
OKAY. MICHAEL HARRISON'S NAME IS THERE.
I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY ISSUE ON THERE.
SO WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE HARRISON AND ADD FILKOFF.
AND IF WE'LL MAKE THOSE CHANGES, MISS SYLVIE, PLEASE.
YES SIR. AND COULD SOMEBODY MOVE THE MINUTES? SO MOVED. SECOND.
SECOND POZZETTA. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
WE HAVE NO OLD BUSINESS, MR. CUMELLA? WE HAVE NO OLD BUSINESS.
DID EVERYBODY GET A MEETING NOTICE FOR THIS, BY THE WAY? BECAUSE I DIDN'T NO.
SO THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH OUR SOFTWARE AND WE HAVE RESOLVED IT.
BUT IT WAS PROPERLY NOTICED IN THE NEWSPAPER AND ON THE WEB PAGE.
WE DON'T DO NEWSPAPER FOR THIS BOARD, BUT IT WAS ON THE WEBSITE.
AND IT WAS AN ADDITION TO THE WEBSITE WE ALSO POST PAPER COPIES STILL.
CORRECT. AT EVERY CITY FACILITY, AND THAT WAS DONE AS WELL.
CORRECT. WHERE THE ALTHOUGH I DIDN'T SEE IT.
HARVEY PROBABLY COVERED IT. OKAY.
SO JUST TO MAKE SURE YEAH IT WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED WHEN WE FOUND OUT THERE WAS A MEETING.
SO WE'LL PROCEED TO HTC 2023-0087.
[5.1 HDC 2023-0087 - RENEWAL BY ANDERSEN OF FLORIDA, AGENT FOR ALAN + SARAH BURNLEY, 23 S.7TH STREET]
THIS IS 20.SWEAR PEOPLE IN TOO. THANK YOU, JIM.
THANK YOU. I'M READING OFF THE WRONG THING HERE.
WHERE IS MY AGENDA? THERE WE GO.
YOU'RE RIGHT. I'M WAY OUT OF LEAGUE HERE.
AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT. SEATED BOARD MEMBERS, PLEASE DISCLOSE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS.
THAT'S IT. OH, AND OF COURSE, WE ALL TALKED TO SAL ABOUT THESE CASES AS THEY COME UP.
JIM, I HELPED JOSE AND MIRANDA ARCHITECTS WITH THE 101 CENTRE STREET FIELD DOCUMENTATION, WHICH I GUESS IS HDC 2023-0089.
SO I'LL BE RECUSING MYSELF FOR THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT.
I'M NOTHING. NOTHING. ARLENE THANK YOU.
YES, BECAUSE OUR ATTENDEES TONIGHT, MOST OF THEM HAVE ALREADY HEARD THIS A MILLION TIMES.
YES. SO TONIGHT WE HAVE IS IT FOUR CASES? FOUR CASES.
NO VARIANCES, ALL CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.
AND THOSE EACH WILL BE HEARD, AS IN QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS, WHICH MEANS FIRST CITY STAFF.
THEN THE APPLICANT WILL COME UP, SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AND YOU WILL ALSO BE GIVING TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD AND ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE SUBMITTED ON PAPER THAT'S THERE IS ALREADY IN THE RECORD.
AND EACH ONE OF THE CASES, IF THERE IS AN APPEAL THAT ANYBODY WISHES TO FILE OF ANY OF THE DECISIONS THAT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL MAKES TONIGHT, THAT APPEAL IS FILED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE FINDINGS OF FACT, IT'S ABOUT 35 DAYS, TAKES A COUPLE OF DAYS FOR THE CHAIR TO SIGN THOSE.
[00:05:06]
AND SO THAT'S THE APPEAL PERIOD.AND THAT GOES STRAIGHT TO CIRCUIT COURT.
REMEMBER THAT ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS MUST BE BASED ON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS AT ALMOST EVERY MEETING.
EXPERT TESTIMONY IS MORE CREDIBLE AND WEIGHED HEAVIER, IF YOU WILL, THAN LAYPERSON TESTIMONY.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? I DON'T SEE ANY HERE TONIGHT.
AND YOU ARE NOT LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU GET TO SPEAK.
AND YOU CAN ALSO PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY.
GENTLEMEN, IF YOU'RE INTENDING TO TESTIFY TONIGHT.
NOT INTENDING TO TESTIFY. OKAY.
DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? I DO. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, MISS SYLVIE. ALL RIGHT.
WE'VE APPROVED THE MINUTES, SO WE WILL GO.
WE HAVE NO OLD BUSINESS. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE FIRST CASE OF THE EVENING, WHICH IS 2023-0087.
THIS IS BURNLEY, 23 SOUTH SEVENTH STREET.
AM I READING OFF THE WRONG AGENDA? YEAH, I BELIEVE SO.
YEAH, WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY LABELED NUMBER ONE.
THE ONE YOU READ IS NUMBER ONE.
I'M READING THIS. IS THIS THE CASE THAT YOU'RE.
YOU'RE ABSTAINING FROM VOTING? WE'LL FIGURE THAT OUT. OKAY.
A LOT OF TIMES WE SEE SOMEBODY COME DOWN FROM THE BOARD BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING A PRESENTATION.
YOU JUST CAN'T BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION.
SO LET'S SAY SOMEONE ASKED A QUESTION AND I KNEW THE ANSWER.
JOSE DIDN'T. IT'S NUMBER 5 MAYBE IT'S BEST IF I JUST SAID TRUE, BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY.
[LAUGHTER] WELL, THERE'S A LITTLE CONFUSION AS TO WHICH ITEM IS FIRST.
OH, TO HEAR THAT FOR THE NEXT.
YEAH. SO, WHAT WAS PUBLISHED SAL? YES. TELL ME WHAT WAS PUBLISHED.
OKAY, SO WE'RE. THEY ARE NUMBERED.
WE'RE GOING TO DO 101 CENTRE STREET FIRST BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE PUBLIC AGENDA WAS PUBLISHED.
OKAY, WE'RE STARTING WITH THE WINDOWS BECAUSE IT'S NUMBER 87 CASE 87 OF THIS YEAR.
I'M SAL CUMELLA, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLANNER WITH THE CITY.
IT IS A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 23 SOUTH 7TH STREET IN C3 CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.
THIS IS THE AERIAL OF THAT PROPERTY HERE.
IT DOES MEET THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS WHEN ANALYZING THIS CASE.
WE'RE LOOKING AT SIX WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL.
A PERMIT WAS ISSUED FOR A PREVIOUS SCOPE OF WORK THAT WAS PERMITTED FOR TWO WINDOWS TO BE REPLACED, ONE ON THE NORTH ELEVATION AND ONE ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION THROUGH THE HDC 2021-0024 THE ADDITIONAL SIX WINDOWS THAT WERE REPLACED ARE LOCATED IN AN ADDITION ON THAT PRIMARY STRUCTURE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY CONSTRUCTED AS A COVERED SECOND FLOOR PORCH.
[00:10:09]
MATERIAL FOR THE HOME.SO AS I SAID, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING AN AFTER THE FACT APPROVAL OF HDC 2023-0087.
THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR MR. CUMELLA. I DO.
SO SAL DO WE KNOW THE KIND OF THE STORY BEHIND IT? ARE THE BECAUSE I REMEMBER THIS CASE WHEN WE FIRST SAW IT WAS THE LITTLE BAY WINDOW.
CORRECT. SO THIS IS A LOT MORE.
SO IS IT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY NEEDED TO COME HERE BECAUSE IT WAS A NON CONTRIBUTING PART OF THE HOUSE OR? I'M NOT SURE WHY IT DIDN'T RECEIVE A COA BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE HEARD IT AT THE SAME TIME.
AND YOU CAUGHT IT ON INSPECTION? CORRECT. CORRECT.
BUT THERE ARE SOME GOOD PHOTOS HERE THAT SHOW YOU THIS ADDITION ON THE HOUSE.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, YOU CAN SEE THE WOOD COLUMNS ARE STILL THERE.
ORIGINALLY IT WAS A COVERED PORCH ON THAT SECOND FLOOR AND INTERESTING PHOTOGRAPHS FROM YEAH. SO THESE ARE THE BEFORE SO THEY'RE NON-HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT WERE REPLACED.
SO WOULD YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL ON THIS IF THEY BROUGHT IT TO US TO BEGIN WITH? YES, I WOULD HAVE.
THIS IS SUBSTANTIAL. THIS IS SUBSTANTIAL.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING I LOOK AT WHEN I LOOK AT AFTER THE FACT CASES.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAD IT COME BEFORE US, WE WOULD HAVE SAID YES TO.
AND IN THIS CASE, YES, I WOULD HAVE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS.
IS THERE ANYBODY HERE REPRESENTING THAT CASE TONIGHT? OKAY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD WISH TO TESTIFY WITH REGARD TO THIS CASE.
I JUST WANT TO BRING SOMETHING OKAY? MISS SYLVIE WILL SWEAR YOU IN.
AND IF YOU'LL STEP TO THE PODIUM, GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
DO YOU SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME.
WELCOME. WELCOME. I'M PASTOR FELIX OF TRINITY, AND I JUST WANTED TO BRING.
I THOUGHT YOU LOOKED FAMILIAR.
[LAUGHTER] I RECEIVED NOTIFICATION ON THIS CASE.
YES. AND I WAS WONDERING WHAT ROLE WE PLAY IN THIS.
BECAUSE IT'S NOT OUR PROPERTIES.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THIS HAD BEEN REALLY SUBSTANTIAL, IF THIS HAD BEEN SOMETHING THAT YOU WANTED TO BE ENGAGED WITH, THEN WE WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO COME IN AND TESTIFY AND TELL US WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE, SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION.
OKAY. WELL. DID YOU GET ONE FOR THE HOUSE DOWN THE STREET FROM THIS AS WELL? YES. YES, YES, YES.
DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT AS WELL? I'LL BE CURIOUS AND I APOLOGIZE.
NO. OH NO PLEASE COME, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.
[LAUGHTER] AND JUST THE TECHNICAL OF IT.
IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE WITHIN 500FT OF THIS PROPERTY.
NOT ONLY DO WE PUT A SIGN ON THE PROPERTY, SO IF YOU'RE DRIVING BY, YOU SEE THE SIGN, BUT ALSO SO THAT THE NEIGHBORS KNOW WHEN SOMETHING'S CHANGING AND CAN COME AND SPEAK ABOUT IT .
AND WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
OKAY. IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE.
THANKS. THANK YOU FOR COMING. THANKS.
OKAY. SO THAT'S OUR PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT.
IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE, THEN [INAUDIBLE] NOW I DON'T WANT TO HEAR.
[LAUGHTER] RIGHT. WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION.
SO I KNOW I'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE AND IT'S JUST WHAT IS THE MECHANISM IN PLACE BETWEEN THE HDC AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT SO THAT THINGS LIKE THIS DON'T CONTINUE TO KEEP HAPPENING.
DID THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT GIVE THEM A PERMIT? SO YES, THIS IS A UNIQUE CASE.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS THEY PUT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL FOR THE TWO WINDOWS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY DONE WITH THAT APPLICATION AND THAT WASN'T CAUGHT THAT THEY DID HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR THE SCOPE OF WINDOWS A COA FOR IT, BUT IT WASN'T FOR THE SAME SCOPE THAT.
SO IT WASN'T FOR IT WASN'T EVEN FOR THE SAME PROJECT THEN.
SO THEY REPLACED THE TWO WINDOWS FIRST NOW.
I THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD EXTENDED THEIR SCOPE.
THEY MAY HAVE DONE IT AT THE SAME TIME.
I BELIEVE IT WAS DONE AT THE SAME TIME.
AND YOU CAUGHT IT ON THE BACKSIDE WHEN YOU'RE DOING YOUR POST, CORRECT? YEAH. INSPECTION, YEAH.
INTERESTING. YEAH, I MEAN, I AGREE WITH JIM.
I MEAN, THIS CASE, I MEAN, THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
EXACTLY. DID THEY GET A PERMIT FOR THOSE ANDERSEN WINDOWS OR?
[00:15:01]
NO. FOR THAT PARTICULAR CASE, THERE'S NO PERMIT OR COA, WHICH IS WHY THEY RECEIVED A STOP WORK ORDER.WINDOWS WERE GONE AND STAFF CAUGHT IT AND PUT A STOP WORK ORDER ON IT.
AND THAT'S A COUPLE MONTHS NOW.
YEAH. AND THE STOP WORK ORDER REMAINS AND IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, SAL ON THAT HOUSE.
WE DIDN'T APPROVE ANY WINDOW REPLACEMENTS AS PART OF THAT PROJECT, NOT REPLACEMENTS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT IS THERE WAS A SMALL ADDITION WHERE THE HOUSE WAS GETTING SQUARED OFF IN THE BACK AND THAT WOULD RECEIVE NEW WINDOWS.
AND WHILE THEY WERE DOING THOSE WINDOWS, THEY DECIDED TO DO ALL OF THE WINDOWS.
AND BUT THERE ARE NO PENALTIES AVAILABLE TO US TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING.
RIGHT. OTHER THAN THEY'RE UNDER A STOP WORK ORDER? WELL, THE STOP WORK ORDER AND TO GET APPROVAL THERE IS A FOUR TIMES FEE FOR THE AFTER THE FACT APPROVAL.
HOW MUCH WOULD THAT BE? BECAUSE IT'S A BOARD APPROVAL.
AND THAT'S THAT'S THE REGULAR FEE.
OKAY. SO FOR THE PENALTY ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
CORRECT. GET THE PERMIT AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD. WHAT WOULD THEY DO? WHAT WOULD THEY DO? RIGHT.
YOU CAN'T RESTORE WHAT'S IN PLASTIC.
HERE IS I JUST WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE GENTLEMAN.
THE MAIN POINT IS WHAT'S HOW DOES THIS PROCEED? I FEEL BAD FOR SUSIE BECAUSE MY GUT TELLS ME IS THAT SHE'S ON A STOP WORK ORDER, THAT SHE DIDN'T EVER DIDN'T INTEND TO GET TO.
ALL RIGHT. SO ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS CASE? I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT.
SO THESE ARE THE PHOTOS OF THE WORK BEING DONE ON THE AFTER.
AND SO REALLY, THE ONLY HISTORIC PART OF THIS PORCH ARE REALLY THE CHAMFERED PORCH COLUMNS.
THAT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THAT WAS A SLEEPING PORCH, PROBABLY.
SO JUST FOR SUMMARY AND CLARITY, SINCE I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH ONE OF THESE BEFORE BECAUSE IT'S AN AFTER THE FACT, THE FOLKS ARE AWARE THAT THEY'RE PAYING MUCH MORE FOR THIS APPROVAL THAN THEY WOULD HAVE.
THEY'VE BEEN NOTIFIED OF THAT ALREADY.
OKAY. THEY WOULD HAVE PAID IT, I BELIEVE SO.
THIS CASE I BELIEVE IT'S NOT THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT ARE APPLYING.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE HOMEOWNER IS NOT COOPERATING WITH THEM.
SO THEY HAVE PAID THE FEE AND THEY ARE THE APPLICANT.
CORRECT. IT SEEMS A LITTLE WEIRD.
SO LET'S PUT IN SOME NEW WINDOWS BY ANDERSEN.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I MOVE TO APPROVE. THAT'S A MOTION BY POYNTER.
THERE ARE NO CONDITIONS. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT, BUT I THINK WE PROBABLY NEED TO READ OFF THE THING THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO.
COME ON, TIM. I'D LIKE TO DO THINGS QUICKER.
HOW CAN THEY NOT PUT ANY MORE WINDOWS IN? CAN WE. DO WE KNOW THEY'RE NOT PUTTING ANY MORE WINDOWS IN? I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL. THEY'RE NOT TALKING.
MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD PUT IN THE FUTURE.
ALWAYS ASK IS YOUR INTENTION TO ONLY DO THESE OR.
RIGHT. AND MAYBE IT DOESN'T HURT THAT ON THIS APPROVAL.
AND WE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE HERE FOR THE ARRIVAL.
WE HAD IT WAS A VERY ROBUST CONVERSATION.
ANDERSEN CAME IN AND WASN'T THAT ONE THEY CAME IN AND DID A PRESENTATION.
RIGHT. AND I REMEMBER YOU AND I WERE VERY SPECIFIC AS TO WHICH WINDOW THIS IS WHERE IS THIS? WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? AND IT WAS THEY WERE REPLACING NON ORIGINAL WINDOWS WITH NEW ANDERSEN WINDOWS AT THE TIME.
HOW DO I REMEMBER THAT? I DON'T KNOW.
BUT SO IT WAS YEAH, WE GOT DOWN, WE ASKED THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE LIKE THIS.
IS IT YOUR INTENTION TO JUST REPLACE THE ONES THAT DON'T PASS SAL'S TEST? AND THE ANSWER IS YES, THAT'S OUR INTENTION.
IS THIS THE NUMBER, THOUGH? 24.
I THOUGHT IT SAID 24? THAT'S RIGHT. GOOD CATCH.
I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2021-82.
[00:20:02]
IT SHOULD BE THIS 2023-0087.AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW.
PART OF THE RECORD THAT THE HDC CASE 2021-87 202 3-0087 VALID SUBSTANTIALLY IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLYING WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.
SECOND. OKAY. FOR THE DISCUSSION.
MS. MCCANN PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
[5.2 HDC 2023-0089 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR 101 CENTRE STREET LLC, 101 CENTRE STREET]
THIS IS BUILDING 101 CENTRE STREET, MR. CUMELLA. SURE.OH, YEAH, PLEASE DO. THANKS, JEFF.
SO THIS IS HDC 2023-0089 101 CENTRE STREET KNOWN AS THE DURYEE BUILDING.
IT IS A C3 ZONED PROPERTY CONSTRUCTED IN 1882.
IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AS WE ALL KNOW, IT IS MOST CURRENTLY HOUSED THE MARINA RESTAURANT.
IT'S THERE AT THE CORNER OF FRONT AND CENTRE.
THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING APPROVAL TO DO AN EXTERIOR REHABILITATION ON THIS CONTRIBUTING PRIMARY STRUCTURE TO INCLUDE REMOVAL OF EXISTING STUCCO VENEER OVER THE ORIGINAL BRICK AND TABBY FACADES.
REMOVAL OF EXISTING NON-HISTORIC BRICK VENEER AT THE FIRST FLOOR REPAIR AND REPOINTING OF HISTORIC BRICK FACADE, INSTALLATION OF NEW LIME BASED PLASTER VENEER OVER THE HISTORIC TABBY, WITH SCORED BLOCK PATTERN REPLACEMENT OF EXTERIOR WINDOWS WITH NEW MARVIN SIGNATURE ULTIMATE PRODUCT LINE AND RESTORATION OF ORIGINAL CAST IRON STOREFRONT, RECONSTRUCTION OF ORIGINAL WOOD ENTRY DOORS AT SECOND FLOOR WITH DECORATIVE BALCONY.
THIS PROJECT DOES MEET ALL OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION.
THE FERNANDINA BEACH DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF HDC 202 3-0089. THANK YOU.
I JUST I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU NORMALLY HAVE OLDER PHOTOS ON THE FOLDER.
THE ONLY ONE THAT I SEE IS JUST ONE.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE DOCUMENTATION OF HOW THAT BUILDING LOOKED LIKE OTHER THAN THAT PHOTO.
I DON'T HAVE IT INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
NO. OKAY. WELL, YOU HAVE SOME.
YEAH, FROM THE PHOTOS THAT WE FOUND, I FIND ALL OF THEIR REHABILITATIONS TO BE APPROPRIATE.
WE'RE NOT ADDING ANYTHING CONJECTURAL TO IT.
IT'S ALL STUFF THAT IT DID EXIST ON THE BUILDING.
AND AS THE BUILDING, IT'LL BRING THE BUILDING BACK MORE INTO PERIOD, SO.
PERFECT. THANK YOU. IT'S GOT SOME HISTORY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. CUMELLA? IF NOT, WE'LL ASK MR. MIRANDA TO COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
JOSE MIRANDA. MIRANDA ARCHITECTS 309 1/2 CENTRE STREET, SUITE 206.
I THINK SAL PRETTY MUCH SUMMARIZED IT ACCURATELY.
OBVIOUSLY WE'VE GOT DRAWINGS OF BEFORE AND AFTER.
THIS IS A JOURNEY WE'RE EMBARKING ON WITH HARVEY WARD, OUR CONTRACTOR.
WE'VE ALREADY DONE SOME TEST AREAS WHERE THE TABBY SEEMS TO BE IN PRETTY DECENT SHAPE.
INTERIOR WISE IS IN ROUGH SHAPE.
I MEAN, IT'S THIS THING HAS BASICALLY BEEN WRAPPED IN SARAN WRAP.
AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS CONDENSATION HAS GOTTEN INSIDE THE WALLS AND THE WALLS HAVE DETERIORATED.
THE WEST WALL AND THE ONE FACING CENTRE STREET WERE BOTH ORIGINALLY BRICK, AND THOSE HAVE BEEN HAVE GOT WHAT WE CALL THE BUTTERCREAM FROSTING STUCCO ON THE OUTSIDE.
SO WE'RE GOING BACK WITH THAT ON THE REMAINING TWO SIDES.
[00:25:05]
IS IN GOOD ENOUGH SHAPE TO REMAIN BRICK.WAS IT PAINTED AT ONE TIME? DO WE NEED TO HAVE A FALLBACK POSITION? BUT WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL WE START INVESTIGATING FURTHER.
SO THIS IS PHASE ONE OF A BASICALLY A TWO PHASE PROJECT.
BUT THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO TRY TO AT LEAST SECURE THE EXTERIOR PERIMETER.
NONE OF THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS ARE THERE, SO WE'RE REPLACING THEM ALL WITH AND WE'LL FIELD MEASURE EVERY OPENING AS WE DID IN THE CHANDLERY BUILDING, WHERE EVERY OPENING WAS JUST SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A CUSTOM WINDOW FOR EVERY OPENING.
BUT THE FRONT BALCONY WILL COME BACK.
IT WON'T BE ACCESSIBLE, BUT WE'LL PUT IT ON AS A KIND OF A NOD TO WHAT USED TO BE ON THERE.
WE WILL NOT BE RESTORING WHAT USED TO BE THE ROOFLINE.
THIS HAD EXTENSIVE EAVES AND OVERHANGS THAT EXTENDED ON ALL FOUR SIDES WITH BRACKETS AND OVERHANGS.
WE CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE, PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT'S OVER THE RIGHT OF WAY.
WE HAVE NO WAY TO CONTROL STORMWATER RUNOFF.
SO THERE'S ONLY GOING TO BE SO MUCH WE CAN DO TO BRING THIS BACK ALL THE WAY FROM THE EDGE.
IT'S BEEN NEGLECTED FOR A LONG TIME.
SO WE'RE BEING VERY, I GUESS, PRUDENT IN OUR APPROACH.
SO JUST SEEK YOUR APPROVAL SO WE CAN GET PHASE ONE STARTED.
ARE YOU CLOSING ON YOUR ILLUSTRATION? LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE CLOSING ALL THE DOORS OFF ON THE.
IS IT ON THE WEST SIDE? OKAY, WELL, LET'S WALK THROUGH.
THIS IS CENTRE STREET, RIGHT? THIS USED TO BE OLD KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN OPENING IN HERE.
RIGHT? RIGHT. WE'RE GOING BACK WITH THE OLD STOREFRONT.
YOU CAN SEE LITTLE PIECES OF IT.
YOU CAN SEE FROM THE INSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
SO ALL OF THIS NEW STOREFRONT, NEW WINDOWS, HERE'S THE BALCONY THAT WE'RE ADDING.
WE KNOW THAT THIS WAS AN ORIGINAL BRICK OPEN.
YOU CAN SEE THAT FROM THE INSIDE.
SO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR THE ENTRY DOOR.
THESE DOORS ARE BASED ON THE HISTORIC DOORS THAT WE SEE ON THE BACK THAT HAVE BEEN DETERIORATED.
WE'RE TRYING TO REPLICATE THOSE AND PUT THEM AS THE FRONT ENTRY.
THESE WINDOWS ARE ALL GOING TO BE FIXED WINDOWS, OBVIOUSLY, WE GOT FLOOD ISSUES.
BUT THE HISTORIC PART OF THE BUILDING IS EXEMPT FROM 100% REQUIREMENT FOR FLOOD.
AND THEN THE NEW ADDITION TO THE BACK WILL GO UP TO ANOTHER TWO FEET TO GET UP TO THAT 11 FOOT.
SO THAT'S HOW WE GOT TO BE VERY PRUDENT ABOUT WHERE THESE WINDOWS STARTED AND TO DO A LITTLE WAINSCOT PANEL BELOW ALL OF THAT SO WE COULD FLOOD PROOF IT . NEXT ELEVATION.
SO THIS IS WHAT FACES ESSENTIALLY THE WATER OR THE RAILROAD TRACKS.
THIS WHOLE CENTER SECTION USED TO BE A BIG WINDOW COMBINATION.
SAME WITH THESE WINDOW OPENINGS.
SO THERE WILL BE NO OPENINGS ON THIS SIDE, BUT WAIT UNTIL THE NEW ADDITION COMES.
THERE'LL BE OPENINGS ON THAT SIDE.
ALL RIGHT. AND THEN THE OTHER TWO SIDES, OBVIOUSLY, THE BACK IS WHERE ALL THE GUTS ARE.
ALL THAT JUNK IS BEING PEELED OFF.
BUT THE ADDITION WILL BE COMING THIS WAY.
SO YOU'LL SEE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE AFFECTED WITH THE NEW WORK AS WE'RE COMING IN THIS DIRECTION.
AND THEN THE OTHER SIDE, WHICH FACES THE NEIGHBOR.
THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE RIGHT NOW WITH ITS BUTTERCREAM FROSTING.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THE ROOF LINE.
WE'RE KEEPING IT THE WAY IT IS.
[00:30:02]
SEE HOW BEST TO TREAT THAT.OKAY. AND I'LL POINT OUT, YOU CAN SEE THE ORIGINAL ROOF LINE HERE.
IT IS. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A GABLED ROOF.
THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S ALL HIDDEN BY THE PARAPET.
AND AGAIN, WE COULDN'T GO BACK WITH THE GABLE ENDS OR ANY OF THAT.
IT JUST WAS TOO NOT ONLY COST PROHIBITIVE, BUT THERE'S NO WAY TO GET APPROVAL FOR THOSE ENCROACHMENTS THAT WOULD THEN DUMP WATER ONTO THE NEIGHBOR AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE.
SO WE'D HAD TO LIMIT HOW MUCH RESTORATION WE DO.
SO DO WE THINK DO WE KNOW THAT THIS BUILDING ACTUALLY OPENED ONTO THE FRONT STREET SIDE IN THE WAY BACK? THERE IS EVIDENCE.
I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT SLIDE 12 HERE.
YEAH, THERE IS EVIDENCE OF A DOOR, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THE AGE OF IT THAT IS ON THE KEEP GOING UP.
BUT ORIGINALLY THE BUILDING WAS ON A CORNER.
OR IT WAS OR IT WASN'T? IT WAS. IT HAD TWO ENTRANCES.
SO THAT HERE'S A WHAT LOOKS LIKE AN EXISTING ENTRANCE HERE.
BUT WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE THAT OFF.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT SIDE.
SO WE CAN'T TELL WHAT'S HAPPENING AT GROUND LEVEL.
SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO GO BACK WITH SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW WAS THERE.
YEAH, WE'RE NOT SUGGESTING THAT ANYTHING IS INAPPROPRIATE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
YEAH. HOW WE GOT FROM THERE TO HERE? YES. SAL, IT LOOKS LIKE SLIDE 12 IN THE APPLICATION HAS AN OBLIQUE VIEW OF THE ORIGINAL, WHICH LOOKS TO ME LIKE THERE WAS A LOT OF WATER STANDING THERE.
THAT'S PROBABLY LOOKING OUT ONTO THE WATERFRONT SIDE RIGHT.
NO THAT'S CENTER STREET UNDERWATER.
HERE'S THE BALCONY THAT WE'RE GOING BACK WITH.
YOU SEE WHAT THE ROOF USED TO DO.
IT USED TO COME OVER THE TOP AND HAD ALL THESE BRACKETS AND ORNATE WORK.
THAT'S WHAT WE CAN'T DO ANYMORE.
HARVEY SAID HE FOUND SOME CUBBY HOLES WHERE HE THINKS THE CUSTOMS HOUSE WAS STORING AT ONE TIME YES. IS THE PROCESS FOR RESTORING THE TABBY? IS THAT THAT'S ITERATIVE, RIGHT? YOU TAKE A PIECE OFF, YOU SEE HOW IT IS.
SO WE KNOW WHAT THE CHEMICAL COMPOSITION IS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S MIXED AS TO WHETHER WE CAN CONSOLIDATE IT.
SO WE HAVE TO BE ON THE INTERIOR.
IT'S NOT CONDUCIVE TO HAVING TABBY DIRT HITTING YOUR PLATE.
SO WE ARE GOING TO FUR THAT OUT AND BLOCK IT OFF.
BUT THE OUTSIDE OBVIOUSLY WE WILL EXPOSE ALL OF THAT AND DO THE SKIM COAT WITH THE STUCCO.
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IT'S A STEP BY STEP PROCESS.
YOU STRIP A SECTION? NO. AND FIX IT.
IT'S SIMILAR TO THE PROCESS WE'RE PLAYING ON STANDARD MARINE BUILDING, CAREFULLY SO THAT YOU'RE NOT BRINGING.
EXACTLY. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. MIRANDA. I JUST HAVE A COMMENT.
WELL, IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT BUILDING, TO OUR HISTORY.
IT IS. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART, I THINK, IS HAVING THE RIGHT CLIENT.
IN OTHER WORDS, SOMEONE WHO IS MORE INVESTED IN WHAT THE RESULTS ARE AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THE FINAL BILL IS, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS THAT ARE FOR THOSE THAT THINK THAT THEY CAN DO IT FOR A LUMP SUM THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION.
IT ONLY TOOK THEM FOUR MONTHS.
[LAUGHTER] JUST TO REINFORCE ARLENE'S MESSAGE HERE IS THAT MAKE SURE MR. AND MRS. HOGAN UNDERSTAND HOW HAPPY, SUPPORTIVE WE ARE OF THEIR EFFORTS, AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE HIM STEPPING UP TO DO THIS AND EMPLOYING YOU AND MR. WARD, BECAUSE IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PROJECT FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
[00:35:01]
STOCK RESPONSE. [LAUGHTER] ONE MORE LOW POINT.ONE OF OUR FRIENDS WAS SAYING, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MCJUNKIN PROJECT.
YEAH. AND THEY SAID, WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO TEAR DOWN THAT UGLY WALL THAT? [LAUGHTER] NOW WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM TO TRY TO KEEP THAT.
WE UNDERSTAND. THAT MODELED LOOK, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S JUST PART OF THE HISTORY AND THE CHARACTER.
WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THAT. SO WE'RE.
THANK YOU. WE'RE HANGING ON TO THAT.
IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY WITH REGARD TO CASE 2023-0089.
OKAY. THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION.
WHERE ARE WE? I THINK IT'S GREAT.
I CAN'T WAIT. YEAH, I'M REALLY LOOKING TO YOU TONIGHT.
SINCE JIM'S CONFLICTED, IS THERE ANY TECHNICAL OR ARTISTIC DESIGN ISSUES THAT BOTHER YOU ON THIS? I MEAN, MY QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE ELEMENTS COMING BACK IN THE BUILDING.
YEAH AND OF COURSE, I KNOW JOSE AND STAFF DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO.
AND THEN 150 YEARS LATER, WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK TO, THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT YOU CAN GET SOMEWHERE THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE COMMUNITY, THE ITALIANATE STYLE.
AND I WILL SAY IT, THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEING MADE ARE VERY REFLECTIVE OF WHAT IT HISTORICALLY WAS, THE NEW ELEMENTS AND THE ELEMENTS THAT I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE STOREFRONTS.
IT'S GOT THE ORIGINAL STEEL ELEMENTS, EXCEPT FOR THE ONE PIECE.
IT'S ALL BEEN OBSCURED BY THE BRICK IN THE 1960S.
YEAH, I NEVER REALIZED THEY WERE BACK THERE.
THEY'RE BEHIND THE BRICK THE REPORT.
OH YEAH, YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT.
YEAH. I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2023-0089 WITHOUT CONDITIONS AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THE HDC CASE 2023-0089 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
I'M GOING TO GUESS THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.
PLEASE, MS. MCCANN, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
YES. WE'LL MOVE ON TO CASE 2023-0090.
[5.3 HDC 2023-0090 - COTNER & ASSOCIATES, AGENT FOR MATTHEW + KATHARINE MEADE, 14 S. 6TH STREET]
THIS IS COTNER ASSOCIATES FOR MEADE 14 SOUTH 6TH STREET, A RATHER AMBITIOUS ADDITION TO THAT HOUSE.AND I SEE ANN COTNER PITMAN IS WITH US TONIGHT FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
THANK YOU. SO THIS IS HDC 2023-0090 PROPERTY LOCATED AT 14 SOUTH 6TH STREET ZONE C3 THE PROPERTY IS A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE CONSTRUCTED AROUND 1884.
IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
APPLICANT IS SEEKING CONCEPTUAL CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT REAR AND SIDE ADDITIONS.
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
SO THIS IS A PROPOSAL THAT'S BEING BROUGHT BEFORE THE HDC FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WHICH IS PROVIDED AS A COURTESY TO THE APPLICANT TO ALLOW COMMENT FROM THE HDC AND CITIZENS DURING THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN PROCESS.
THE HDC WILL PROVIDE THE APPLICANT WITH FEEDBACK AND GUIDANCE RELATING TO THE PROPOSAL AND TAKE A VOTE TO INDICATE WHETHER THE BOARD FEELS THE PROPOSAL IS ADEQUATELY APPROPRIATE TO PROCEED. IF SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS ARE RAISED BY THE BOARD, THEY MAY REQUEST THAT THE APPLICANT RETURN FOR ADDITIONAL CONCEPTUAL REVIEW.
IN ALL CASES, THE APPLICANT MUST RETURN TO THE HDC TO SEEK FINAL APPROVAL OF THEIR PROJECTS.
NO PROJECTS CAN PROCEED TO THE PERMITTING PHASE WITHOUT FINAL APPROVAL BY THE HDC.
AND AS I SAID, THIS APPLICANT IS SEEKING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT.
WHEN LOOKING AT THE PROPOSAL, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF PARTS OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION WHICH IT DOES NOT MEET WHICH ARE NUMBER ONE, TWO, NINE AND TEN, WHICH DEAL WITH ONE IS PROPERTY SHALL BE USED FOR THEIR HISTORIC PURPOSE, PLACED IN A NEW USE THAT REQUIRES MINIMAL CHANGE TO THE DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS OF THE BUILDING SITE AND ENVIRONMENT.
TWO IS THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY SHALL BE RETAINED AND PRESERVED.
[00:40:04]
NINE THAT NEW ADDITIONS, EXTERIOR ADDITIONS OR RELATED NEW CONSTRUCTION SHALL NOT DESTROY HISTORIC MATERIALS THAT CHARACTERIZE THE PROPERTY.THE NEW WORK SHALL BE DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OLD AND SHALL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MASSING SIZE, SCALE AND ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES TO PROTECT THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE PROPERTY AND ITS ENVIRONMENT.
AND TEN IS THAT NEW ADDITIONS AND ADJACENT OR RELATED NEW CONSTRUCTION BE CONSTRUCTED IN A MANNER SUCH THAT IF REMOVED IN THE FUTURE, THE ESSENTIAL FORM AND INTEGRITY OF THE HISTORIC PROPERTY AND ITS ENVIRONMENT WOULD BE UNIMPAIRED.
SO STAFF FINDS THAT THE PROPOSED ARCHITECTURE OF THE ADDITIONS ARE CONCEPTUALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT THAT THE LEVEL OF ALTERATION IS NOT IN KEEPING WITH THOSE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS THAT I JUST READ.
AS IN SECRETARY INTERIOR STANDARD NUMBER TEN.
I HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER SINCE THIS WAS WRITTEN TALKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF MAINTAINING AND THE HISTORIC FABRIC AND NOT DESTROYING IT SO THAT IT COULD BE REVERSIBLE IN THE FUTURE.
AND THEY SAID THEY'RE VERY OPEN TO CONSTRUCTING IT IN A WAY THAT HAS MINIMAL PENETRATIONS THROUGH THE ORIGINAL WALLS, THAT DOESN'T TAKE DOWN ON THE SIDE WHERE THE GARAGE PORTION IS CONNECTED.
WE'VE ALSO HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT YOU'VE SEEN, I THINK IN THE PACKET, WE'VE GOT THE SANBORN MAP STUDY INCLUDED, WHICH SHOWS AS MOST HISTORIC HOMES THAT HAD A KITCHEN ADDED TO THE BACK VERY EARLY ON.
AND OF COURSE, THAT HAD ADDITIONS ADDED TO THE ADDITIONS, ADDED TWO MORE ADDITIONS.
AND IF YOU REMEMBER THE PROPERTY RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THIS, ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO AGO, WE SAW A CASE AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOKED AT WITH THAT WAS THE ADDITION AND REALLY NOT OBSCURING THAT ADDITION, BUT ALLOWING IT TO BE EXPANDED IN A WAY THAT FUNCTIONS FOR MODERN USE.
SO I THINK WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE MORE WITH THE APPLICANT HERE.
SO OVERALL, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF HDC 2023-0090.
THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR MR. CUMELLA. SO, SAL, YES, I NOTICED THAT ON THE SANBORN MAPS THERE'S AT LEAST THREE TWO VERSIONS AND NOW THE VERSION TODAY HOW THE BACK KITCHEN LOOKS LIKE.
SO ARE YOUR CONCERNS STAFF CONCERNS RELATED TO THAT PART OF THE STRUCTURE OR IS IT IS IT MORE I MEAN, I GUESS MY BOTTOM LINE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING RID OF ALL OF THAT MODULE, IF YOU WILL, OR ARE YOUR CONCERNS MORE WITH HOW YOU ARE BLENDING THAT SIDE ELEVATION WITH THE NEW WITH THE GARAGE EXPANSION? BOTH ACTUALLY, BECAUSE IF THIS WERE, SAY, A 1980S ADDITION ONTO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, IT WOULDN'T BE A BIG DEAL TO REMOVE IT AND PUT THE NEW ADDITION IN ITS PLACE BECAUSE IT'S SUCH AN EARLY ADDITION TO THE HOUSE AND ALWAYS EXISTED AS SOME FORM OF KITCHEN.
THE OLDEST PORTION OF THAT THAT SHOWS UP ON THOSE MAPS AS PART OF THE ORIGINAL PORTION OF THE HOUSE WE SHOULD INVESTIGATE A LITTLE FURTHER AND RETAIN IF THEY ARE HISTORIC.
I'M GOING TO PULL UP ON THE SCREEN YOUR SO WHEN LOOKING AT THE SANBORN MAPS HERE'S 1891 AND SO IT'S A TWO STORY HOME.
I'LL BLOW THAT UP A LITTLE BIT SO YOU CAN SEE IT BETTER.
SO IT'S A TWO STORY DWELLING WITH A FRONT PORCH.
THEN IN 1897, IT STILL REMAINS THE SAME FOOTPRINT IN 1903, AGAIN, SAME FOOTPRINT. AND THEN IN 1909, YOU SEE THE L-SHAPE ACTUALLY HAS AN ADDITION ON IT.
AND THEN BETWEEN THE TWO PARTS OF THE BUILDING, THERE'S AN OPEN PORCH.
AND THEN IN 1926, IT REMAINS THE SAME.
AND IN 1949, IT REMAINS THE SAME.
AND SO I BELIEVE THAT IT'S BEEN ADDED ONTO SINCE THEN.
WE KNOW THAT THESE ADDITIONS WERE ADDED ONTO IT.
WHAT SHAPE? I'M SORRY, IT'S THIS L SHAPE HERE.
OKAY. SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S ALREADY, YOU KNOW, OR AT LEAST BACK TO EARLY 19.
[00:45:06]
A VERY GOOD POSSIBILITY.YEAH. THERE'S NOW THE FRONT PORCH, THE TWO STORY FRONT PORCH.
ONE STORY OF IT WRAPS AROUND THE SIDE OF THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
AND SO THAT'S NOT A HISTORIC PORCH.
AND I'LL BRING UP THE PLANS AND ELEVATIONS HERE FOR YOU.
SO THIS IS WHAT EXISTS THERE NOW.
THAT BACK PORTION, THERE'S A DECK ON THE BACK.
THERE'S ALSO A DECK THAT GOES AROUND FROM THE FRONT PORCH.
THERE'S A GARAGE, A DETACHED GARAGE.
AND SO THESE ARE THE CHANGES WE'RE LOOKING AT.
IT'S BASICALLY ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE DOING THIS TWO STORY ADDITION.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO, AGAIN, WHERE THAT L-SHAPED PART WAS SQUARING THAT OFF AND ADDING TO THAT TO DO PART OF A MODERN ADDITION BACK THERE. FROM THE FRONT, WE'VE WORKED WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER FOR A WHILE NOW, KIND OF ON DIFFERENT ITERATIONS OF THIS. AND THEY'RE REALLY COGNIZANT THAT THEY WANT IT TO LOOK SUBSERVIENT TO THE PRIMARY PROPERTY PRIMARY HOUSE EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A ATTACHED GARAGE AND WE DON'T GENERALLY RECOMMEND ATTACHED GARAGES, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE DETACHED GARAGES AS THIS IS A MUCH MORE MODERN STYLE THAN WOULD HISTORICALLY EXIST.
YOU ARE OF COURSE DEALING WITH LIMITED SPACE ON THAT LOT.
SO WE LOOKED AT KIND OF PUSHING IT BACK.
SO YOU SEE IT'S PUSHED BACK FROM THE FRONT PORCH AND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE.
THE OTHER THING WE REALLY LOOKED AT WAS VISUALLY HOW IT LOOKS FROM THE FRONT.
SO HERE ARE THE EXISTING AND YOU CAN SEE THAT PORCH THAT WAS ADDED ON THE SIDE.
AGAIN, THAT'S NON-HISTORIC AND THE GARAGE GETS ADDED ONTO THAT, BUT IT REALLY FOLLOWS THE MASSING AND RHYTHM OF THE PROPORTIONS OF THE WINDOWS, THE COLUMNS, ALL OF THOSE TYPE OF ELEMENTS, SO THAT IT REALLY COMPLEMENTS THE HISTORIC PORTION OF THE HOUSE. ONE THING WE NOTED JUST YESTERDAY AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PROJECT WITH THE OWNER WAS THIS SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THE NORTH ELEVATION. IT DOESN'T HAVE WINDOWS IN IT BECAUSE FIRE CODE DICTATES IT CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S ON THE PROPERTY LINE.
AND SO THIS IS A LITTLE PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE IT IS A BLANK WALL.
SO IT'S NOT AS VISUALLY APPEALING AS THE REST OF THE HOUSE.
I WILL PULL UP THE APPLICANT HAS WORKED ON A VERSION THAT HAS FALSE WINDOWS IN IT WITH LOOKS LIKE CLOSED SHUTTERS, WHICH ACTUALLY REALLY BREAKS UP THAT MASSING A WHOLE LOT.
SO I CAN SHOW THAT TO YOU AND THE APPLICANT CAN EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT THAT.
THERE ARE SOME REALLY NICE RENDERINGS TO SHOW YOU.
SO THERE YOU CAN SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FROM THE FRONT.
THERE'S SOME SIDE ANGLES SO YOU CAN SEE HOW IT WOULD.
THESE ARE REALLY WELL DONE BUT AGAIN, SHOWING HOW IT SITS BACK.
SO IT'S NOT AS IN LINE WITH THE HOUSE AS IT COULD BE, REALLY TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, IT IS A LOT OF ADDITION, BUT REALLY TRYING TO KEEP IT AS SUBSERVIENT TO THE MAIN PORTION OF THE HOUSE AS POSSIBLE.
BUT SOME OF THE STAFF COMMENTS ARE LIKE WHERE THE NEW MEETS THE OLD.
YOU CAN'T REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
RIGHT. IS THAT AM I READING THE RECOMMENDATIONS CORRECTLY? SO THE I THINK THE CONCERN WAS ON THIS SIDE OF THE HOUSE WHERE THE GARAGE IS REALLY THE REVERSIBILITY OF IT AND THE NON DAMAGING.
IT'S A VERY LARGE PORTION OF THE WALL OF THE HALF OF THE WALL.
AND THE APPLICANT SAID YOU KNOW THEY THEY CAN DO IT IN A WAY THAT YOU KNOW THEY'LL GO OVER THE EXISTING SIDING AND KIND OF KEEP THE HISTORIC PORTION AND MAKE IT SO IT'S REVERSIBLE IN THE FUTURE.
OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. CUMELLA? YEAH.
JUST ASKED ABOUT THE COVERING UP DECIDING.
[00:50:03]
THAT'S A GOOD APPROACH.YEAH. SO WHAT ABOUT IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD RECOMMEND DOING DIFFERENTLY WITH THE RAILINGS? SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT REALLY ON HOW YOU HANDLE THAT, WHETHER YOU MAKE IT VERY, VERY OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT OR YOU MAKE IT COMPATIBLE.
IN THIS CASE, THEY WENT WITH A SIMILAR DESIGN TO KIND OF MIMIC IT.
BUT IT STILL I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, YOU REALIZE THIS GARAGE ISN'T THE HISTORIC PART OF THE HOME.
WHAT YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO IS MAKE IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT PEOPLE SAY THAT IT'S FAKE AND PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL THAT IT'S A MODERN ADDITION ON THE HOME BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS SITS AND THIS ROOF LINES IT DOES SHOW AS A MODERN ADDITION.
IT'S BEAUTIFUL. SO THE HISTORIC KITCHEN MODEL THAT I'VE SEEN SINCE I'VE LIVED HERE IS. THEY WERE INTENDED AND ALL TO BE SEPARATE FROM THE HOUSE.
CORRECT. AND I TRY TO FIND THE RIGHT WORD HERE ALMOST DISPOSABLE.
THE INTENTION WAS THAT IF THE KITCHEN CAUGHT ON FIRE, IT WASN'T GOING TO BURN THE WHOLE HOUSE DOWN.
DO YOU FIND THAT? I THINK WE DO SEE A LOT OF THEM STILL ON OUR HISTORIC HOMES.
BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE GENERALLY NOT CONSTRUCTED AS WELL, THEY'VE HAD MORE CHANGES TO THEM OVER TIME.
SO THERE'S LESS HISTORIC FABRIC LEFT IN THEM.
THERE WASN'T MUCH FABRIC TO BEGIN WITH ON A LOT OF THEM.
CORRECT. SOMETIMES THEY WERE SEPARATE FROM THE HOUSE.
IN FACT, I'VE SEEN PROPERTIES WHERE THE KITCHEN WAS IN THE BACK OF THE YARD.
SO AGAIN, IT DIDN'T PUT A LOT OF HEAT INTO THE HOUSE.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE AIR CONDITIONING. AND IF IT DID CATCH ON FIRE, IT DIDN'T BURN THE HOUSE DOWN.
YEAH, A LOT OF TIMES THEY'RE CONNECTED WITH A BREEZEWAY.
BUT YEAH, THEY'RE GENERALLY INTENDED TO BE OFFSET OFF OF THE HOUSE FOR EXACTLY THAT REASON.
THIS ONE'S A LITTLE UNUSUAL IN THAT REGARD THEN HAVING HUNG AROUND THAT LONG.
IT'S REALLY PRETTY RAW AND IT'S DESIGNED AS IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.
I GUESS MY INCLINATION IS TO ALLOW FOR THE DEMOLITION AND THE DESTRUCTION OF SOME OF THESE HISTORIC ELEMENTS WHEN THEY'RE ON THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY, WHEN IT ALLOWS THE OWNER TO FULLY ENJOY THEIR REAL ESTATE, TO DENY THEM THE CAPACITY TO DO THAT CREATES THIS DISINCENTIVE TO DO THIS, WHAT IS GOING TO BE A VERY EXPENSIVE RENOVATION ON THIS HISTORIC PROPERTY? IN OTHER WORDS, WE GIVE UP A LITTLE BIT TO GET A LOT MORE BACK, I THINK IS THE WAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT.
SHOULD SAY THAT FOR BOARD DISCUSSION.
BUT YEAH. BUT ANYWAY, SO ARE READY FOR MS. PITMAN. YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FOR US.
COME ON UP. IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.
NAME AND ADDRESS AND ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD.
ANN PITTMAN MY ADDRESS IS 15 NORTH 18TH STREET.
I'M FROM COTNER ARCHITECTS AND I'M REPRESENTING MATT AND KATHARINE MEADE.
I THINK SAL PRETTY MUCH COVERED JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING.
AND I THINK THE MAIN THINGS THAT WE WERE LEFT CONCERNED WITH WERE THE HISTORICAL RELEVANCE OF THE BACK PORTION OF THE HOUSE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TOUCHED ON.
AND THEN I THINK THE SCALE AND THE ISSUE OF THE SIDING AND THE MATERIALS ON THE NORTH SIDE WHERE THE GARAGE IS ATTACHING TO THE HOUSE, WHICH THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM.
WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT AND PRESERVE THAT.
SO WE'RE LEFT WITH THE HISTORICAL RELEVANCE OF THE KITCHEN ON THE BACK, WHICH I HAVE SOME.
DO YOU HAVE? I'M BRINGING IT UP RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT SHOW YOU WHICH EVEN THOUGH THEY THEY MAY BE HISTORICAL, THEY'VE BEEN MODIFIED SO MUCH OVER THE YEARS THAT, YOU KNOW, KITCHENS AND BATHS, RIGHT? YEAH. AND THAT IS STILL A KITCHEN.
[00:55:02]
OF THE PROPERTY.SO YEAH, THERE'S, AND THERE IS ONE AREA WHERE YOU CAN TELL THAT THERE'S A CONCRETE FOUNDATION WHICH THE REST OF THE HOUSE HAS THE BRICK PIER SO IT DEFINITELY WAS ADDED SOMETIME LATER.
WELL THAT'S JUST LOVELY. YEAH.
AND THERE'S WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE LITTLE PIECE WHERE THE SIDING IS MISSING.
THERE'S A CONCRETE FOUNDATION THERE.
SO THAT WAS ADDED AT SOME POINT LATER ON.
MAYBE WE CAN SAVE THAT DOOR AND REUSE IT AT YOUR HOUSE.
OKAY. QUESTIONS FOR MISS PITTMAN.
SO THERE ARE SOME ON THAT EXISTING EAST ELEVATION ON THE BACK SIDE.
HANG ON. ON THE WHICH SIDE? THE BACK SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
WE'RE GOING TO ADD ONE TO THE DINING ROOM AND THEN ONE TO THE BEDROOM UP ABOVE IT.
OKAY, I SEE. SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO REUSE.
YEAH, REUSE THE ONES THAT ARE TAKEN OUT.
YES. I THINK FOR ME, THE TWO ITEMS THAT WERE KIND OF ON MY MIND ARE THOSE THE KIND OF BLANK WALLS WHICH, AS SAL EXPLAINED INITIALLY, THE REASON IS BECAUSE IT'S FIRE CODE REASONS.
SO, SO YEAH, THE WINDOW FRAME WITH THE FAUX SHUTTERS BREAKS IT UP PRETTY WELL.
I WOULD EVEN THINK MAYBE ON THAT NORTH ELEVATION IF BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S KIND OF THE SPACING OF THOSE WINDOWS IS . PRETTY BIG. MAYBE NOT.
RIGHT. SO THE SPACING COULD BE ARRANGED DIFFERENTLY.
WHAT IF YOU IMAGINED THEM AS BEING REAL WINDOWS? BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A BEDROOM ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT MAYBE THEY'D BE PLACED AS IF IT WAS A REAL WINDOW IN A BEDROOM, ONE ON EACH SIDE OF THE BED AND THAT KIND OF THING.
YEAH, THAT MIGHT KIND OF PICK UP ON THE ACTUAL RHYTHM THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT IF IT WAS A REAL WINDOW.
YEAH. AND LOOK, MORE BECAUSE THESE LOOK LIKE THEY'RE JUST PUT ON THERE.
WELL IT WAS DONE LIKE YESTERDAY.
LIKE JUST, JUST LIKE, OKAY, LET'S JUST DO THIS.
IT DOES HELP A LOT THOUGH, JUST TO GIVE YOU THE IDEA.
YEAH. BUT YEAH, WE CAN WORK ON THE SPACING FOR SURE.
I THINK FOR ME ANYWAY, THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY, I THINK.
OKAY. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MISS PITTMAN? WE REALLY LIKED YOUR COLORS.
YEAH. THAT'S AS GOOD AS I THINK I'VE SEEN SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD.
THANK YOU. I HAD A LITTLE HELP WITH THAT, SO.
[LAUGHTER] IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE.
SO THE ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS FOR ME WAS MAKING SURE THAT THE ADDITION WAS SECONDARY.
AND I THINK I GET THAT, I THINK, WHEN I LOOK AT IT.
BUT THE HEIGHT, THE I'M FEELING LIKE IT'S BROKEN.
JOHN DID THE SAME THING FOR OUR HISTORIC HOME OVER ON SIXTH STREET.
IT'S LIKE YOU CAN TELL THAT THAT OUTBUILDING, THAT ADDITION IS SECONDARY.
RIGHT. AND I THINK AS LONG AS THE MATERIALS CONTINUE TO DESIGN, CONTINUE TO REFLECT THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY APPROPRIATE SO THAT SOMEONE WALKING DOWN THE STREET MAKES THIS MENTAL CALCULATION, OH, THERE'S AN OLD HOUSE.
OH, IS IT THAT A SENSITIVE ADDITION AS OPPOSED TO WHAT'S WHAT? YEAH, THAT WAS THE GOAL, TO PUSH IT BACK AND SCALE IT DOWN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND STILL GET THE FUNCTION THAT THIS FAMILY NEEDS.
SO BUT I WOULD ADD THAT, I MEAN, YOU GUYS DID IT IN SUCH A GOOD WAY.
I MEAN, IT KIND OF CHANGED ALL THE PERCEPTIONS THAT I HAD THAT I HAD TO HAVE.
LIKE I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE AND I CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE, BUT IT'S SO SUBTLE AND IT'S SO HARMONIOUS THAT I MEAN, IT KIND OF CHANGED MY PERSPECTIVE FROM NOW ON THAT, I MEAN, SOMETIMES I KIND OF SEE IT LIKE THE LOUVRE PYRAMID, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SEE.
[LAUGHTER] BUT NOW I DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT ANYMORE.
[01:00:02]
I MEAN, EVEN THE RAILINGS.CAN BE SUBTLE. YOU KNOW, MY FIRST INSTINCT WAS, WHY ARE WE REPLICATING IT? BUT WHEN I LOOK AT IT, I'M LIKE, WHY WOULDN'T YOU.
RIGHT. SO YOU DID IT IN SUCH A SEAMLESS WAY THAT I THINK IT WORKS REALLY WELL? AND PUSHING THE GARAGE BACK MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD BECAUSE YOU CAN READ THE VOLUME OF THE OF THE MAIN VIEW.
THANK YOU. YEAH, REALLY APPROPRIATE.
OKAY, SO WE'RE GOING TO LET ANNE GO.
AND ASSUMING THERE'S NO ONE HERE, PUBLIC HEARING.
TAMMI DOESN'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING.
THE BOARD DISCUSSION IS DO WE HAVE ANY CONDITIONS THAT WE NEED OR IS IT OKAY JUST TO ALLOW ANNE TO WORK WITH HER CLIENT AND SAL ON THE NORTH SIDE TO MAKE THAT LESS MONUMENTAL? YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S CONCEPTUAL, I'D SAY AS LONG AS YOU VOICE ANY CONCERNS.
YEAH. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THEY NEED TO BE IN THE MOTION.
YEAH, I THINK WE'RE GOOD. BUT YOU'RE, SORRY, BUT STAFF RECOMMENDATION SHOULD BE IN THE MOTION, RIGHT? THAT THEY LOOK AT OTHER.
OPTIONS. OKAY. I THINK ALSO ASIDE OF THAT, JIM WILL PROBABLY DO THIS WHEN WE GET TO THE FINAL FINAL.
BUT THAT'LL BE IN THE FINAL THAT'LL BE IN THE WHENEVER YOU COME BACK RIGHT.
YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE COMING BACK.
HAVE YOU DONE A BUDGET YET? [LAUGHTER] IT'S TERRIFYING, RIGHT? I THINK FOR ME, ANOTHER ELEMENT CERTAINLY THAT SAL POINTED OUT WAS HOW TO RESPECT THE EXISTING MATERIALS.
YES. ON THE MAIN HOUSE THAT ARE GOING TO REMAIN THERE.
SO I THINK FOR THE FINAL, I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR NOTES ON THE DRAWINGS OR SOMETHING ON HOW THAT GETS ENTOMBED SO THAT IT REMAINS THERE FOR WHATEVER FUTURE GENERATIONS GET TO IT.
I JUST WANT TO ADD FOR THE RECORD, TALKING ABOUT THE KITCHEN.
SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT REALLY CONCERNS ME.
AND NOW LOOKING AT THE PHOTOS EVEN MORE, I THINK THE MAIN HOUSE IS VERY CLEAR IN THE PROPOSED DESIGN AND GETTING RID OF THAT BACK APPENDIX, IT DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE, IN MY OPINION.
AND AND IT WOULD BE WHAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY SEE IN OTHER CASES, EVEN IF THIS ONE IS AN OLD ONE.
I KNOW THAT WAS CONCERN FROM STAFF, SO I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT.
WHEN WE DID THAT AROUND THE CORNER ON BEACH STREET, I THINK THEY RETAINED AT BEACH AND 7TH I WHEN THEY RETAINED THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DID ON THE DORMER HOUSE.
ANYWAY, ENOUGH OF THAT. SO WHO'S MOVING THIS ONE.
I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE 2023-0090 WITH THE CONDITIONS.
HOW SHOULD I SAY THIS? SO SHOULD I ADD WHAT YOU RECOMMENDED? APPROVAL OF THE COUNCILMAN BUT WOULD LIKE APPLICANT TO FURTHER FURTHER STUDY CONNECTION OF THE ADDITIONS TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
OKAY. AND THEN WE SAID THAT THE WINDOWS IN THE NORTH FACADE.
DO WE WANT TO ADD THAT OR NO JUST LEAVE IT.
THEY'RE GOING TO WORK IT THROUGH.
THEY'RE ON THE RECORD. YOU'RE OKAY.
OKAY. I'M SORRY. I MOVE TO APPROVE HCC CASE 2023-0090 WITH THE CONDITION THAT STAFF WOULD LIKE THE APPLICANT TO FURTHER STUDY THE CONNECTION OF THE ADDITIONS TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
AND I MOVE THAT HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.
THE HDC CASE 2023-0090 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, MISS MCCANN, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
[5.4 HDC 2023-0091 - MIRANDA ARCHITECT, AGENT FOR STARK BUILDING LLC, 202 CENTRE STREET]
THANKS ANN. UNLESS YOU WANT TO HANG AROUND FOR 202 CENTRE STREET.YOU'RE GOOD, MR. CUMELLA. SURE.
I'M SURE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO WALKED DOWN THE STREET ONE DAY AND WENT.
[01:05:02]
SO THIS IS HDC 2023-0091 PROPERTY LOCATED AT 202 CENTRE STREET KNOWN AS THE STARK BUILDING.IT'S CURRENT USED AS RETAIL AND OFFICES.
IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL TO REPAIR THE MASONRY WALL AT THE WEST ELEVATION REBUILD SECTION OF THE NORTHWEST CORNER ABOVE THE FIRST FLOOR AND REPAIR THE PARAPET.
AS WE KNOW, THIS IS THAT BUILDING THERE.
IT SITS AT THE CORNER OF SECOND AND CENTRE.
THIS IS A GOOD LITTLE HISTORY ON THE BUILDING FROM THE MASTER SITE FILE.
WHEN ANALYZING THIS, STAFF FINDS THE PROPOSED REHABILITATION IDENTIFIED AS METHOD ONE ON THEIR SHEET AS ONE IS IN KEEPING WITH THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION.
EXCUSE ME. METHOD TWO WOULD NOT BE IN KEEPING WITH SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS NUMBER TWO, FIVE, SIX AND NINE, WHICH ALL RELATE TO RETENTION OF HISTORIC MATERIALS.
SO AS SUCH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF HDC 2023-0091 WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE SCOPE OF WORK UTILIZE WHAT'S IDENTIFIED AS METHOD ONE ON SHEET S1 OF THEIR PLANS.
THANK YOU. WHY DO THEY HAVE TWO PROPOSED? IS IT ONE IN CASE THEY CAN'T SAVE IT? YEAH. WE'LL LET THE APPLICANT PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.
JOSE MIRANDA BRAND ARCHITECTS, 309 1/2 CENTRE ST SUITE 206.
THE CORNER IS HEADED TOWARDS THE NORTHWEST AND IT'S WE DID SOME DETAIL WORK TO INVESTIGATE CRACKS THAT WE HAD SEEN IN THE STUCCO. AND WHEN THE STUCCO WAS REMOVED, WE SAW THAT THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT SEPARATION OF THE BRICKWORK.
SO ONE PORTION IS HAVING FOR US TO REBUILD THE CORNER.
THE SECOND PART IS THE PARAPET.
IN SOME CASES, THE PARAPET IS VERY TALL, ABOVE THE ROOF, ALMOST EIGHT FEET, AND THEY ARE LEANING, IN SOME CASES IN TOWARDS THE BUILDING, IN SOME CASES AWAY FROM THE BUILDING.
OKAY. SO UPON FURTHER INVESTIGATION, WE FOUND THAT THE BRICK UNDERNEATH THE STUCCO IS DUST.
SO WE CAN'T GO BACK WITH BRICK.
WE CAN'T TIE INTO THAT WALL WITH A WOOD BRACE.
WE HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT THAT WALL.
SO WE'VE GOT [INAUDIBLE] BUILDERS RIGHT NOW DOING SOME MORE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT THE SCOPE OF THE WORK IS GOING TO BE FOR HOW MUCH WE CAN SAVE WITH THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL.
BUT WHAT LEVEL DO WE HAVE TO GO DOWN TO? BECAUSE WE ALSO THINK ABOUT PROTECTING THE TENANTS INSIDE THE BUILDING AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, PROTECTING THE PUBLIC ALONG THE SIDEWALK.
SO WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF SECURING SCAFFOLDING TO PROVIDE SOME DEGREE OF PROTECTION.
AND THIS IS BECOMING A PROBLEM FOR A LOT OF THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS.
AND BUT YOU DON'T SEE IT UNTIL THE FINISH STARTS TO FAIL.
SO THIS IS WHY WE'RE ASKING YOU, HEY, WE NEED SOME HELP AND WE WANT TO REPAIR IT.
IF WE WERE TO TRY TO GO BACK WITH BRICK, THERE'S NO REINFORCING STEEL IN BRICK.
SO WE HAVE TO GO WITH CONCRETE BLOCK BASED ON THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ANALYSIS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO REQUEST THAT, HEY, LET US REPAIR IT.
BUT WE UNDERSTAND THE AESTHETICS, THAT'S ONE THING.
BUT WHAT'S BEHIND THE WALL THAT HAS TO BE ON THE PROFESSIONALS TO DECIDE HOW IT'S CONSTRUCTED BECAUSE WE'VE GOT HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE PUBLIC MORE THAN THE AESTHETICS OF WHAT THE REPAIR LOOKS LIKE.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO REQUEST.
[01:10:08]
IN SOME CASES, WE MAY BE ABLE TO SALVAGE SOME OF THE BRICK, BUT IN THE WORST CASES, WE KNOW THAT JUST PUNCHING A SCREWDRIVER THROUGH THAT STUCCO AND INTO DUST BEHIND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE, OKAY, IT'S GOING TO GO DOWN TO ROOF LEVEL AND UP THAT WE HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT.SO THAT'S THE DILEMMA WE'RE FACING.
AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEGINNING OF A LOT OF THESE FOR SOME OF THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY SEE SOMETHING FAIL, THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM.
THAT STUFF ON THAT BUILDING ON THE CORNER OF FOURTH.
THAT'S ALL AND ALL THEY'VE DONE, ALL THEY'VE DONE IS PAINTED.
THAT'S DANGEROUS. YEAH, IT IS.
YOU LOOK AT IT AND IT LITERALLY LOOKS LIKE IT'S A FOOT.
I KNOW. AND I WILL SAY IT HAS BEEN EVALUATED BECAUSE IT VISUALLY IS A CONCERN.
IN OTHER WORDS, YEAH, IT STOPPED MOVING.
BUT TO YOUR POINT, THIS NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT PRETTY REGULARLY ON ALL OF THESE BUILDINGS.
SO WE KIND OF MONITORED AND SAID, OKAY, LET'S SEE IF THE CRACKS ARE GETTING WORSE.
AND IT WAS LAST YEAR THAT WE GOT AN ENGINEER, A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, PI-TECH AND A RESTORATION COMPANY TO COME AND DO SOME MORE INVESTIGATION TO SEE, OKAY, HOW BAD ARE WE? AND THAT'S WHEN IT REALIZED THIS CORNER IS ABOUT TO GIVE WAY.
SO THEY PUT THE TEMPORARY STEEL IN PLACE TO KIND OF SECURE IT.
AND THEY SAID, OKAY, WELL, NOW LET'S INVESTIGATE.
HOW DO WE GO ABOUT FIXING THE PARAPET? SO THE ENGINEER GAVE US TWO OPTIONS ASSUMING A CHEAP OPTION AND A MORE EXPENSIVE OPTION.
BUT THE MORE INVESTIGATION WE'VE DONE, WE REALIZED THE CHEAP OPTION.
IT'S NOT THERE'S NOTHING TO TIE INTO.
THERE'S NOTHING THERE'S NO WE CAN'T SECURE ANY WOOD TO THE BRICK DUST.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THE INVESTIGATION AND SAID IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE METHOD TWO THE QUESTION IS DOES IT HAVE TO BE METHOD TWO EVERYWHERE OR CAN WE DO A COMBINATION WHERE WE CAN REBUILD THE WORST PORTIONS WITH CONCRETE BLOCK.
AND IF THERE'S ENOUGH REMAINING BRICK THAT WE COULD DO THE BRACING.
SO THAT'S WHY WE NEED YOUR APPROVAL SO WE CAN REPAIR IT, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEMOLISH IT AND REBUILD IT IN A LOT OF CASES BECAUSE IT'S IN THAT POOR OF CONDITION.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE THINKING, IS IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO COME DOWN TO SOME LEVEL HERE.
THIS CORNER IS OUR WORST CASE.
AND YOU CAN SEE WE'RE HAVING TO REBUILD FROM THE FLOOR SO THAT.
YES, THAT WHOLE THING IS MOVING IN THIS DIRECTION.
SO HE'S TAKING IT AS FAR OVER AS WE CAN.
SO YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THE WIND AND RAIN OVER 100 PLUS YEARS TAKING A BEATING ON THAT.
AND THEN YOU YOU PAINT IT WITH A WATERPROOFING COATING AND OKAY, THIS IS WHAT YOU GET.
SO THAT'S WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE WHAT'S RIGHT BY THE BUILDING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS IS ECONOMICS.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE GOT AN INITIAL ESTIMATE OF OVER $1 MILLION DOLLARS TO REPAIR.
THAT'S MORE THAN WHAT THE BUILDING COST TO BUY IT.
OKAY. THE CRACKS ON THE WEST ELEVATION, WHAT IS CAUSING THEM AND WILL THE REPAIR STOP WHATEVER IS? ONE OF THE METHODS WE'RE DOING IS WHAT'S CALLED STITCHING.
SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THEY'RE SCOURING OUT THE STUCCO AND ESSENTIALLY THERE'S IT'S A METAL ROD THAT'S INSERTED BETWEEN THE BRICK JOINTS TO TIE THE TWO PIECES OF BRICK THAT ARE CRACKING TOGETHER.
AND IT'S STITCHED ALL THE WAY UP TO TIE THE WHOLE WALL AND THEN IT GETS RESTUCCOED.
TO MATCH. AND THAT SHOULD PREVENT FURTHER MOVEMENT? YES. BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT HUGE PROBLEMS. THE PROBLEMS FOR US IS REALLY FROM THE ROOFLINE UP WHERE THESE THINGS ARE LEANING.
BUT ARE THEY ARE THE CRACKS CAUSED BY THE LEANING OF THE PARAPETS.
I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION WATER HAS GOTTEN IN THERE, OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT THESE PARAPETS YOU KNOW, IN CONTEMPORARY PARAPETS YOU WATERPROOF THEM WITH FLASHING AND ALL THAT.
HISTORICALLY YOU DID YOU MAYBE DID A CAST STONE CAP AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.
[01:15:04]
WELL, WHAT HAPPENS TO CAST STONE AND AFTER 120 YEARS IN THE SUN IN FLORIDA? DISINTEGRATES? EXACTLY.SO THEN THE WATER GETS INTO THE WALL AND IT STARTS TO DISINTEGRATE FROM THE INSIDE OUT.
BUT THE SURFACE ONES, WE'RE GOING TO DO THE STITCHING METHOD.
THAT'S A PROVEN METHOD FOR REPAIRING THE BRICK AND THEN WE'LL GO OVER IT.
ONCE THE STITCHES ARE IN PLACE, WE'LL GO OVER IT WITH THE STUCCO TO MATCH AND KEEP THE SCORING, BECAUSE THE IMPORTANT PART, THE DETAILING IS NOT ONLY THAT IT'S STUCCO, BUT IT'S GOT THAT LITTLE FAINT BLOCK SCORING, WHICH IS VERY UNIQUE.
SO HAVE YOU DONE THE INVESTIGATION TO KNOW THAT YOU CAN TIE IN INTO THE WALL BELOW THE ROOF LINE? YES. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING, BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING TO INVESTIGATE NOT ONLY FROM THE ROOF DOWN, BUT FROM INSIDE THE SECOND FLOOR UP TO SEE WHAT'S ACCESSIBLE AND WHERE THE WORST PLACES ARE.
SO WE'RE ALREADY TALKING TO SOME OF THE TENANTS ABOUT, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN HERE REBUILDING FROM THE ROOF LINE UP AND IT MAY BE THAT PORTION OF YOUR OFFICE JUST CAN'T BE USED.
SO IT'S A COMBINATION EFFORT AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING TO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH THE CONTRACTOR AND HIS SUBS TO DETERMINE WHERE OUR START POINT IS FOR THE REPAIR WORK, WHICH IS REALLY RECONSTRUCTION WORK AT THIS POINT.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE FROM THE DRAWINGS THAT THE OPTIMAL STRUCTURAL SOLUTION IS TO COME DOWN TO WHERE YOU COULD FIND SOUND MATERIAL. THEN YOU HAVE A CONCRETE TIE BEAM.
YES. AND THEN YOU GO CMU ABOVE THAT.
OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT AS THIS PROJECT PROGRESSES, DO WE HAVE TO TEMPORARILY REMOVE SOME OF THE PARAPETS SO THEY 'RE NOT IN DANGER OF FALLING INTO THE STREET OR FALLING INTO THE BUILDING.
CAN THIS COME DOWN SO IT DOESN'T KILL ANYBODY WHILE WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF RECONSTRUCTING? BECAUSE ESPECIALLY NOW WE'RE IN THE RAINY SEASON, THE HURRICANE SEASON, WE'RE LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE KIND OF ON PINS AND NEEDLES AS TO WHAT THE PROPER COURSE OF ACTION IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE. AND YOU'VE ALREADY USED DRONES TO DOCUMENT THE DETAILING, THE EXISTING DETAILING.
AND THAT'S WHY HE PRESENTED BOTH METHODS BECAUSE HE SAW THAT SOME OF THE ROOFING WASN'T VERY WELL FLASHED AND WE THOUGHT, OH WELL SINCE YOU HAVE TO PATCH THE ROOFING ANYWAY, WHY DON'T WE JUST TIE TO THE ROOFING AND GO DIAGONALLY? BUT WHEN THEY STARTED POKING WHERE WE WOULD TIE IN, WE REALIZED IT WAS DUST.
WE KNOW WHERE OUR STARTING POINT IS.
THE QUESTION IS HOW FAR DOWN WE HAVE TO GO TO START REBUILDING AND WORKING OUR WAY UP.
YES. SO WORST CASE SCENARIO, WE HAVE TO TEAR DOWN THE WHOLE PARAPET WELL TO A CERTAIN HEIGHT, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY, SO THAT WE DON'T GET INTO DANGER OF IT FALLING OVER IN ADVANCE OF IT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO TACKLE ALL OF IT AT ONCE. IT'S GOING TO BE DONE IN SECTIONS.
I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD. WHAT ARE YOU REQUESTING THE BOARD IS IF WE AGREE, THAT'S THE PATH WE'RE GOING.
YOU ALSO WANT FLEXIBILITY TO SAY, OKAY, SO I'M NOT REPAIRING ONLY FIVE FEET.
WE WANT BASICALLY APPROVAL TO BE ABLE TO REPAIR THE ENTIRE PARAPET.
THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH OF IT DO WE REALLY ACTUALLY HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT? WE'RE THINKING ONLY THE WORST CASE AND THE TALLEST PIECES NEED TO BE RECONSTRUCTED, BUT WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL WE GET INTO IT.
AND WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO IS COME BACK HERE EVERY MONTH TO SAY, HEY, GUESS WHAT? THE SCOPE HAS INCREASED OR DECREASED.
HOW DOES IT AFFECT THE CHIMNEYS? THE CHIMNEYS WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK WITH THE SAME SHAPE.
THERE WILL NOT BE ACTIVE CHIMNEYS.
THEY DON'T GO INTO ANY FIREPLACES THAT ARE ACTIVE.
YEAH. WE UNDERSTAND. WE KNOW THEY'RE NOT FUNCTIONING. WE'RE GOING TO.
EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT FUNCTIONING WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO BACK AND PUT A CHIMNEY FLUE IN.
THERE'S NO PURPOSE. WE REALLY NEED THAT TO BE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY'RE SO TALL.
WE NEED THAT TO BE A SOLID STRUCTURE THAT CAN RESIST THE WIND.
AND THE CORNER THAT YOU'RE REPLACING, THE NORTH CORNER.
THE METHOD OF REBUILDING IT WILL BE THE SAME METHOD THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.
THE METHOD WE WANT TO DO IS THE CONCRETE BLOCK BRICK WHERE WE CAN.
[01:20:03]
BUT STRUCTURALLY IT THAT CORNER HAS TO BE CONCRETE BLOCK TO BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND.SO THERE'S OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
BUT I'M ASSUMING WE'RE GOING TO TACKLE THE CORNER FIRST BECAUSE THAT'S OUR WORST CASE SCENARIO.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, WE MAY TEMPORARILY REMOVE THE TALLER PARTS OF THE PARAPET THAT ARE LEANING IN.
WELL, THE TIE ROD BENT, BECAUSE IT'S NOW FALLING INTO THE STREET, IT'S FALLING INTO THE ROOF.
WOW. IT'S LIKE, OKAY, WE'VE GOT AN ISSUE.
AND IF IT'S GOING TO COME THROUGH THE ROOF, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM.
SO ARE THE METHODS AS OUTLINED IN YOUR APPLICATION SUFFICIENT AS FAR AS YOU CAN TELL GOING FORWARD? YEAH. METHOD TWO IS OUR WORST CASE, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASSUMING.
WE HAVE. WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS WHAT THE MOTION LOOKS LIKE, WHAT THE APPROVALS.
YES. THE MOTION HAS TO BE MADE WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
AND I DON'T WANT TO PUT YOU IN A POSITION TO HAVE TO COME BACK.
YES. IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, ALTHOUGH.
CORRECT. WE HAVE PROCEDURES FOR EMERGENCIES.
AND IF IT'S LESS THAN THAT, THEN WE'RE.
BUT RIGHT NOW, AS LONG AS IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE APPLICATION.
YEAH. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW HE'S SAYING HE'S ONLY RECOMMENDING IF THEY USE ONE.
WHICH YOU'RE SAYING THEY CAN'T USE ONE.
THAT'S CORRECT. WE MAY USE IT SELECTIVELY.
SO [INAUDIBLE] IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
IF I UNDERSTAND IT, METHOD ONE AND METHOD TWO, YOU JUST PROVIDE BOTH OF THE SCOPES.
YOU DON'T SAY WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO USE THAT.
THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. YOU DO IT WITHOUT CONDITION THEN IT'S. YES.
THEN IT'S UP TO THEM TO DECIDE.
CORRECT. BUT WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT METHOD TWO WILL BE DONE.
AND IF YOU GUYS NEED UPDATES AS THIS IS GOING ON.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK FOR.
NOT TO COME BACK FOR APPROVAL.
NO, BUT APPROVE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A REPORT AND SAY IF YOU CAN JUST GIVE US AN UPDATE WHEN YOU KNOW MORE AND COME BACK WITH SOME PICTURES OR REPORT BACK TO SAL OR NEXT TIME YOU'RE HERE BECAUSE YOU'RE HERE WEEKLY.
YEAH, YOU COULD EVEN WHEN THERE ISN'T I'M HERE WEEKLY.
YOU COULD TOUCH BASE WITH YOU'LL KEEP SAL INFORMED AND WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU.
OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
OKAY, I JUST HAVE A PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN BEFORE WHERE WE COULDN'T SAVE THE BUILDING AND NOW THIS IS.
SO THAT THAT METHOD, THOUGH, CONFLICTS WITH THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
BUT IF IT'S THE METHOD, THE ONLY METHOD THAT'S GOING TO SAVE THE BUILDING, THEN THE WAY.
BUT WHAT I'M ASKING IS HOW OFTEN ARE THESE STANDARDS UPDATED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THIS KIND OF A CASE? OR ARE THEY? SO, I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS THE EXCEPTION TO THOSE STANDARDS.
I THINK THE STANDARDS DON'T CHANGE.
AND IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, THE APPLICANT IS GOING TO TRY TO ADHERE TO THE STANDARDS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AS FAR AS THEY'LL DO THE REPAIRS WHERE NEEDED WITH THE MOST INVASIVE.
IF THEY CAN DO THE LEAST LESS INVASIVE IN SPOTS, THEY WILL.
RIGHT. OKAY. SO TO THEIR INTEREST.
SOMETHING I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT WHEN ARLENE BROUGHT THAT UP AND NOW I UNDERSTAND FROM JOSE'S PRESENTATION IS THAT, THE CITY CAN WE HAVE THE DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT? THAT'S DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT IF IT GETS TOO BAD.
BUT IF JOSE IS TESTIMONY IS CORRECT, YOU CAN'T TELL THAT UNTIL THE SKIN OR WHATEVER THE THAT'S.
YOU'RE RIGHT. AND IT IS IT'S ALMOST A NO WIN SCENARIO.
AND I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE ABSENTEE LANDLORD WHO BASICALLY IS JUST COLLECTING RENT.
[01:25:07]
VERY RARELY EVER GOES TO PUT MONEY INTO THE BUILDING UNLESS HE GETS A COMPLAINT ABOUT A LEAK AND THEN ONLY FIX THE LEAK.SO THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
NOT ABSENTEE. OKAY, ENOUGH OF THAT.
OKAY. I THINK I HEARD A SUFFICIENT DISCUSSION THAT WE SHOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
I MOVED TO APPROVE HDC CASE 2023-0091 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
THE HDC CASE 2023-0091 AS PRESENTED, IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL.
[LAUGHTER] HE'S NOT I SEE HIM ALL THE TIME IN TOWN.
DID I GET THAT RIGHT NOW? OTHER WAY AROUND.
AND SYLVIE PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
MEMBER POYNTER. YES. MEMBER FILKOFF.
THANKS, GUYS. THANKS FOR BEING SUCH GOOD CARE TAKERS.
THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE AS WELL.
BOARD MEMBERS, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO BRING TO THE DISCUSSION?
[6. BOARD BUSINESS]
YES. YES.YEAH, THAT'S WHERE DOES THIS LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE CHANGE COME UP? SO STAFF.
COMMISSIONER, ARE YOU MAKING ANY COMMENTS THIS EVENING? I WOULD LIKE TO. PLEASE COME UP.
YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT IT AT THE END OF THE MEETING.
NO END TO THE END. THE END OF THE MEETING.
LIKE THE COMMISSION. IS IT OUT? NO. I'M BEING VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT MY OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THE COMMISSIONER.
JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF. JUST MAKE MY OWN LITTLE DIG.
[LAUGHTER] I KNOW. I KNOW. ACROSS 210 NORTH THIRD STREET.
TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE IS RATHER DISAPPOINTING IS THAT WE HAD $1 MILLION GRANT APPLICATION AND IT WAS PASSED BY THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE FOR CONSTRUCTION OF OUR SEAWALL PROTECTION DOWNTOWN, WHICH OUR ESTEEMED GOVERNOR VETOED.
DISAPPOINTING. WHAT HAPPENED? I CAN'T HEAR YOU. HE VETOED IT.
THE GRANT FOR $1 MILLION FOR THE SEAWALL.
SO WE STILL HAVE THE DESIGN MONEY.
I CHECKED WITH CHARLIE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONSTRUCTION MONEY.
THE GOVERNOR VETOED IT FOR UNKNOWN REASONS.
THE HOUSE WAS TAKEN DOWN TO THE STUDS.
THERE'S ALL NEW HURRICANE GLASS.
YADA, YADA, YADA. IT WAS BUILT IN 1900, TWO YEARS THREE YEARS AGO, MY INSURANCE WAS $4,000.
YIKES. AND YOU'RE LUCKY TO FIND IT.
IT'S GOING TO BE THE INSURANCE.
I MEAN, $10,000 IT'S STARTING.
I MEAN, AND I TALKED TO A NUMBER OF OTHER HOMEOWNERS DOWNTOWN AND THEY GOT THE SAME THING WITH THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE DOING WHAT THEY DID WITH ROOFS AND SO ON.
SO, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT'S ON THE HORIZON AND IT'S GOING TO DRIVE A LOT OF.
YES. THAT'S THE POINT THAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR METAL ROOFS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, 35 YEAR ROOFS.
AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AFTER TEN YEARS ARE SAYING YOU HAVE TO REPLACE IT REGARDLESS.
YEAH. OR THEY WON'T GIVE YOU ANY INSURANCE.
WE ARE HEARING THAT MORE AND MORE.
SO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF OUR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE.
IT'S GOING TO BECOME MORE AND MORE DRIVEN BY WEALTH.
MAYBE THEY WON'T BE HERE THAT MUCH DRIVING THEIR CARS AROUND.
THERE'S ALWAYS A SILVER LINING, I SUPPOSE.
[01:30:02]
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. WE APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS.SO WE'RE MOVING INTO THE STAFF REPORT.
[7. STAFF REPORT]
SAL WHAT DO YOU GOT? SURE. FIRST, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STAFF COAS? I DIDN'T.THERE WERE NINE OF THEM. THEY LOOKED OKAY TO ME.
SO THE ONLY OTHER THING I'VE GOT FOR YOU IS A PROPOSED ORDINANCE, AN ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING CITY POLICY CONCERNING THE PROTECTION, MAINTENANCE AND PRESERVATION OF HISTORIC STREETSCAPE ELEMENTS.
AND WHAT THIS IS LOOKING AT IS, AS WE APPROACH OUR 200TH ANNIVERSARY, LOOKING AT THOSE ELEMENTS IN THE STREETSCAPE THAT ARE CHARACTER DEFINING ELEMENTS AS IDENTIFIED IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT, SUCH AS THE GRANITE CURBS, THE COUPLE OF AREAS OF HEX PAVER SIDEWALKS THAT WE HAVE, THE CONCRETE STREET MARKERS.
SO ALL OF THOSE DATE BETWEEN 1900 AND 1904.
I'VE BEEN ASKED TO WORK WITH MAIN STREET ON THIS AS FAR AS LOOKING AT WHAT DO WE DO TO PROTECT THEM.
AND SO THIS ORDINANCE I'VE GOT TONIGHT BEFORE YOU NOT TO VOTE FOR, BUT JUST IF YOU'VE GOT ANY SUGGESTIONS ON IT OR SUPPORT IT OR DON'T SUPPORT IT AND JUST GET ANY FEEDBACK THAT YOU GUYS MIGHT HAVE.
WITH THIS ORDINANCE, PRETTY MUCH THEN TELL THE CITY THAT WHERE THESE ELEMENTS EXIST, YOU HAVE TO REPAIR OR REPLACE IN THE SAME CONDITION, CORRECT? CORRECT. SO THE DISCUSSION I'M JUST SO THE DISCUSSION WITH THE SIDEWALK PAVERS RIGHT NOW, IT'S SOMETHING LIKE THIS WERE TO PASS THEN WE WOULD BE WHERE THERE ARE HEX PAVERS NOW HEX PAVERS WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK.
CORRECT. IN THOSE LIMITED AREAS WHERE THEY EXIST CURRENTLY.
OKAY. YEAH. THIS ISN'T DEALING WITH NEW.
IT DOESN'T MAKE EVERY NEW SIDEWALK.
HAVE TO BE. NO, THIS IS JUST PROTECTING THE HISTORIC ASSET.
I JUST WANT THAT CLARIFICATION.
AND THEN OR REPLACING THE EXISTING SIDEWALK.
IT WOULD NOT REQUIRE THE HEX PAVERS BE INSTALLED, CORRECT? CORRECT. YEAH, THAT WOULD THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS.
THIS IS PROTECTING THE HISTORIC ASSETS THAT ARE CURRENTLY STILL OUT THERE.
SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ASKING THE CITY TO PLAY BY THE SAME RULES WE ASK THE CITIZENS TO PLAY BY.
YEAH. I THINK THE CONVERSATION WE HAD MAYBE LAST MONTH WAS SIMILAR IN THAT WE SAID WITH MAIN STREET.
I UNDERSTAND. SO BUT YOU WANT TO.
BUT AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T COME UP OR AT LEAST WHEN WE TALKED WITH CHARLIE ABOUT IT AT THE LAST MEETING, HE RECOGNIZES THAT EVEN IF HE PUTS BRUSH CEMENT THERE, WHICH WOULD BE THE PLAN.
RIGHT. SO THE TREES ROOTS ARE STILL GOING TO BUCKLE IT UP.
SO WITHOUT HAVING A PLAN FOR HOW YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT AND A MAINTENANCE PLAN.
IT'S ALL MAINTENANCE. IT'S I MEAN, IT'S.
TREES GROW. TO ADDRESS WHAT YOU SPECIFICALLY ASKED, RECOLLECTING ON THAT MEETING WE HAD BETWEEN ALL THE DIFFERENT ENTITIES, I THINK THE CITY ENGINEER WAS ON ON RECORD BASICALLY STATING THAT HE DOES NOT BELIEVE THERE'S ANY WAY TO MAKE THE HEX PAVERS EVER BE SAFE. RIGHT. I THINK I HEARD THAT.
SO I THINK GIVING HIM AN OUT MEANS THEY'RE GONE.
YES. OBVIOUSLY IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE.
YEP. BUT YOU STILL HAVE YOUR HEX PAVERS AND YOU COULD MAKE THAT SAFE.
IT WOULD BE MORE EXPENSIVE. BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT DOING IT EVERYWHERE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING IT WHERE THEY EXIST NOW.
PROBABLY IS. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REMIND US THAT IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THREE YEARS MAYBE, PLUS WE ASK THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH TO RESET THEIR HEXAGONAL TILES, AND THEY DID THAT.
[01:35:02]
DO WHAT I SAY, NOT AS I DO.RIGHT. IF WE'RE GOING TO VALUE THE HISTORY THAT WE HAVE HERE BECAUSE IT'S VERY LUCRATIVE FOR US TO DO SO AS A COMMUNITY, THEN WE NEED TO SHOW THAT WE VALUE IT AND STOP MAKING DECISIONS IN A VACUUM BECAUSE IT'S EASIER.
SO I WOULD DEFINITELY SUPPORT THIS.
YOU WANT TO GET THIS IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION BY WHEN? SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
OKAY, WELL, GIVE US A DEADLINE YOU WANT.
IF YOU CAN GIVE ME NOTES BACK THIS WEEK.
END OF DAY TOMORROW END OF BUSINESS TOMORROW.
OKAY. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S COME BEFORE US? ALL, I'VE GOT FOR YOU.
THANK YOU. WELCOME, SAL TO DOWNTOWN.
HE RECENTLY MOVED ON TO SOUTHWEST STREET.
YOU GET TO PUT UP WITH. FORMER CITY COMMISSIONER.
FORMER CITY COMMISSIONER SAID TO ME, HOW COME HE DIDN'T MOVE INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? I SAID, BECAUSE HE CAN'T AFFORD TO MOVE INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ON A PUBLIC SERVANTS SALARY.
COMMISSIONER, BY THE WAY, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE VETO LIST.
YEAH, WE ARE IN VERY GOOD COMPANY.
YES. $108 MILLION DOLLARS OF PROJECTS WAS VETOED.
AND SOME OF THIS IT'S MUCH OF IT'S STORMWATER.
WHAT COULD GO WRONG? ARE WE SMOKING SOMETHING FUNNY IS THAT.
[LAUGHTER] SPEAK INTO THE MIC.
I AGREE WITH YOU 100% ON MAINTAINING THE HISTORIC STREETSCAPE.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO NEED MONEY TO DO IT.
BUT WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY IS THE CITY IS DOING DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.
AND THIS BOARD OR THIS COMMUNITY NEEDS TO CALL THE CITY COMMISSION ON THAT.
I MEAN, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT FUND ALL THESE THINGS.
RIGHT. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AND I CAN TELL YOU, IF THE BUDGET GETS PASSED THE WAY IT'S BEEN PRESENTED, THERE'S NOT A PENNY IN HERE FOR ANY OF THIS? NOT A PENNY.
WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT MAINTENANCE, BUT WE KEEP CUTTING.
WE DON'T HIRE ANYBODY ELSE TO DO IT.
PUTTING COAL PATCH ON A MISSING PIECE OF CONCRETE.
JULY 5TH, THE DROP DEAD DATE FOR SETTING THE MILLAGE RATE IS GOING TO BE ON JULY 25TH.
THAT'S WHEN IT'S GOING THE MILLAGE RATE IT'S GOING TO BE SET.
THERE'S A BUDGET WORKSHOP ON JULY 5TH.
THAT WAS WHAT WAS DECIDED AT THE LAST MEETING.
SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE MEETING BEFORE SETTING THE INSANITY.
ANY IN CASE YOU NEED TO CHANGE IT, YOU CAN CHANGE IT BEFORE THEY VOTE ON IT AN HOUR.
BUT ONCE YOU SET THE MILLAGE RATE AT THE ROLLBACK RATE, YOU CANNOT GO BACK UP.
YOU CAN ALWAYS TAKE AWAY, BUT YOU CAN'T ADD.
AND SO. OKAY. ANYHOW, COULD YOU.
COMMISSIONER? ANSWER, PLEASE, IF YOU KNOW THIS ANSWER THE DECISION TO OUTSOURCE PART OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS THAT FOR THE NEW BUDGET? NO, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS INDEPENDENT OF WE'RE NOT OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND OF THE GENERAL FUND.
IT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GENERAL FUND.
SO IT DOES NOT AFFECT THE GENERAL FUND ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
OKAY. SO WHEN MY NEIGHBOR WENT IN THE OTHER DAY, THEY WERE TOLD THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE PERMIT BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IT WEREN'T HERE ANYMORE.
THAT'S INCORRECT. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BRING UP WITH THE CITY MANAGER.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I JUST BELIEVE THAT THERE'S GAPS HERE IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT WAS OUTSOURCED WAS THE NOT THE FILLER [INAUDIBLE] OF THE FORMS BUT OF THE PEOPLE WHO REFER THE FORMS. BUT ALSO INTERESTING, SOMETHING I'LL SHARE WITH YOU.
THERE'S A LADY DOWN HERE WHO BOUGHT YOUR HOUSE, MISS HALL.
YES. WHO? I JUST COMMENTED ON HER GARDEN AND WE GOT TO TALKING.
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA NOW HAS A AI PROGRAM WHERE THEY CAN TAKE PLANS, FEED THEM IN, AND IT'LL TELL YOU IF IT COMPLIES WITH THE CODE OR NOT.
AND SHE SAID IT'S PRETTY ACCURATE.
[01:40:06]
UP. SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE.SOME THINGS THE ROBOTS DO PRETTY GOOD.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COMMISSIONER.
WE APPRECIATE IT. ANYTHING ELSE? IT'S TIME TO GO. LET'S SEE IF I CAN GET INTO CAFE CARAMEL.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE TOO BUSY WITH THE RAIN.
SO THERE WON'T BE ANY OUTDOOR SEATING, THAT'S FOR SURE.
FOR SURE. ARE WE ADJOURNED? WE ADJOURNED. YES, WE'RE ADJOURNED.
I DIDN'T HEAR IT. YOU NEED THAT. OKAY.
WE'RE GOING TO DESIGNATE.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.