May 18, 2023 Historic District Council

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

[00:00:03]

I'LL CALL TO ORDER THE MAY 18TH MEETING OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL.

MEMBER POYNTER HERE.

MEMBER KOSACK. YES.

HERE. MEMBER FILKOFF HERE.

MEMBER POZZETTA HERE.

CHAIR SPINO HERE.

VICE CHAIR ESCULSA IS ABSENT.

YEAH, HE'S AT WORK. RIGHT.

HE'S GOT A WORK EXCUSE.

LET'S STAND FOR THE PLEDGE.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

OKAY, WE WILL SEAT ARLENE.

YES, SIR. RIGHT. BY ACCLAMATION.

YES. YES. AND THEN TIM WILL STEP OUT FOR HIS CASES, IN WHICH CASE WE STILL NEED WHERE'S COUNSEL.

WE'LL NEED THREE VOTES, RIGHT? YES. REGARDLESS, STILL NEED THREE VOTES.

EVEN THOUGH WE ONLY HAVE THREE PEOPLE.

FOUR THAT WILL BE VOTING ON FOUR THAT ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE AND SO YOU'LL NEED TO HAVE THREE.

YES, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

SO, BOARD MEMBERS, IF YOU COULD DISCLOSE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS STARTING WITH MRS. FILKOFF. NONE. TIM.

NONE. JIM.

I THINK SO.

I THINK ARLENE YOU SHOWED US A PHOTO OF, WHAT WAS IT, 232 7TH STREET PORCH.

YEAH. AND YOU TOLD THEM AN AWESOME STORY.

YES. WHICH I WON'T RELATE HERE I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE IN CASE IT IS BEING. LOTS OF CAUTION, BEING THOROUGH.

YEAH. I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE ANY EX PARTE COMMUNICATION.

I RAN INTO MIKE STOFFER, OKAY.

AND WE JUST CHIT CHATTED IN GENERAL AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE'S COMING UP, BUT IT WAS NOTHING GERMANE TO THIS CASE.

AND I SPOKE WITH STAFF ON 2022-006 3 OR 8 EIGHT MAYBE IT WAS BOTH OF THOSE.

OKAY. BOARD MEMBERS, HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO WAIT A MINUTE? SORRY. GOING BACK TO MY SCRIPT HERE, COUNSEL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES? SURE. TONIGHT WE HAVE FOUR CASES ON THE AGENDA THAT WILL BE CONDUCTED AS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS, NO VARIANCES.

SO NO SUPERMAJORITY VOTE NEEDED, JUST CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.

FIRST, KELLY GIBSON WITH CITY STAFF IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION AND INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD, I BELIEVE HER STAFF REPORT AND ANY ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTATION HAS BEEN UPLOADED TO THE WEBSITE AND IS DEEMED ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.

THEN NEXT FOR EACH CASE, THE APPLICANT WILL COME UP, SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND OR THEIR AGENT.

COME UP, NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOU ARE PRESENTING A TESTIMONY INTO THE RECORD.

ANY APPLICATIONS THAT APPLICANTS FILED WITH BACKUP DOCUMENTATION IS ALSO IN FRONT OF YOU AND ON THE WEBSITE AS EVIDENCE AND IN THE RECORD.

SO IF THERE ARE AFFECTED PARTIES HERE TONIGHT THAT WISH TO INTRODUCE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY INTO THE RECORD, YOU NEED TO BE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF BY NAME AND ADDRESS AND THAT YOU ARE AN AFFECTED PARTY AND YOU ARE NOT LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU GET TO SPEAK.

YOU WILL BE HEARING EVIDENCE AND IN ALL FOUR CASES AND YOUR DECISIONS, EITHER TO APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE, MUST BE BASED ON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. AND SO YOU'LL BE LOOKING FOR THAT EXPERT TESTIMONY.

THOSE THAT HAVE SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE IS WEIGHED DIFFERENTLY AND MORE THAN JUST LAY PERSON TESTIMONY.

AND SO PLEASE CONSIDER THAT OPINIONS OF LAY WITNESSES ARE ACCEPTABLE AND CAN BE RELEVANT.

BUT YOU NEED TO CONSIDER THAT WHEN YOU'RE WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE.

IF THERE'S AN APPEAL OF THE DECISION TONIGHT, ANY OF THE FOUR DECISIONS THAT APPEAL GETS FILED DIRECTLY TO THE CIRCUIT COURT 30 DAYS AFTER THE WRITTEN FINDINGS OF FACT FROM THIS BOARD, WHICH IS USUALLY ABOUT 35 CALENDAR DAYS.

SO ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? OKAY. THOSE RULES GENERALLY APPLY TO ALL QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS ACROSS ALL BOARDS IN THE CITY? IN THE STATE. AND IS IT ARE THOSE APPEALS GENERALLY ON A PROCEDURAL BASIS

[00:05:02]

IT'S CALLED A WRIT OF CERTIORARI.

IT'S VERY LIMITED TO THE RECORD THAT'S CREATED HERE TONIGHT.

WE'RE DOING A VIDEO AND AUDIO RECORDING AND THE DOCUMENTS THAT COME INTO EVIDENCE.

THE TEST, THE VERBAL TESTIMONY THAT COMES INTO EVIDENCE IS WHAT IS THE RECORD.

AND THAT RECORD, IF YOU THINK OF IT, IT'S IN A BOX.

THAT IS WHAT GETS TRANSMITTED TO THE COURT AND IS ON APPEAL.

AND THE BASIS FOR APPEAL WOULD BE THERE ARE THREE REQUIREMENTS IN A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING.

ONE, THAT THE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW ARE FOLLOWED.

THAT PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS IS AFFORDED TO ALL PARTIES AND AFFECTED PARTIES, AND THAT YOUR DECISIONS ARE BASED ON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

AND THOSE THREE THINGS, ANY OR ALL OF THEM GET CHALLENGED IN A WRIT OF CERTIORARI.

SO ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE COULD NOT BE ENTERED INTO INTO THAT PROCEEDING.

COURT PROCEEDING AT THAT TIME.

IT'S THE BOX THAT, AS YOU DESCRIBED.

CORRECT. AND STANDING WOULD BE ANYBODY IN THE CITY? STANDING WOULD BE NOT NECESSARILY ANYBODY IN THE CITY.

OKAY. NUMBER ONE, IN ORDER TO APPEAL A CASE, THE PARTIES CERTAINLY HAVE STANDING RIGHT THE CITY THE APPLICANT WITH REGARD TO AFFECTED PARTIES, THE COURTS ACTUALLY GOING TO LOOK AT HOW THE AFFECTED PARTY, FOR EXAMPLE, AN AFFECTED PARTY, A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, WE CALL THEM AFFECTED PARTIES UNDER OUR OWN CODE.

ANYBODY LIVES IN THE CITY, IS AN AFFECTED PARTY.

IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT IN FRONT OF THE CITY COMMISSION FOR THEIR HEARINGS.

AFFECTED PARTIES HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIAL INTEREST BASICALLY A NEIGHBOR.

SO THE COURT'S GOING TO LOOK AT WHAT PARTICIPATION AND AFFECTED PARTY HAD IN THIS HEARING.

SO AN AFFECTED PARTY THAT DIDN'T ATTEND THE HEARING OR DIDN'T SPEAK AT THE HEARING AND IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS AN AFFECTED PARTY, IT DOES NOT HAVE STANDING IN THOSE CASES, BUT AFFECTED PARTIES THAT STAND UP, INTRODUCE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, THEN THEY CAN BE AFFECTED PARTIES IN AN APPEAL.

THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. IS THE VIDEO RECORDING UP AND RUNNING AGAIN? [INAUDIBLE] I CAN.

I CAN DO A SILENT CHECK ON MY PHONE WHILE WE'RE HERE.

THANK YOU. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT ADDITIONAL.

SURE. WE'VE ALL BEEN THINKING A LOT ABOUT THAT LATELY AND A LOT OF CONTEXTS.

YES, I UNDERSTAND.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]

YES. WHERE IT DISCUSSES FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION OF THE MASONRY PLANTER BOX.

I THINK WE WERE PRETTY CLEAR THAT WE DIDN'T WANT THE PLANTER BOX TO GET TOUCHED, BUT RATHER THERE'S A PIER THAT WAS ADJACENT TO THE HOUSE THAT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS IN POOR CONDITION AND PERHAPS THAT WOULD BE A GOOD SPOT THAT SOME OF THAT FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION COULD OCCUR AT THE PIER, AT THE HOUSE TO DETERMINE WAS THAT PLANTER BOX ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE.

SO THIS IS A STRIKE OF THE MASONRY PLANTER BOX AND AN ADJACENT PIER.

YEAH, MASONRY PIER AT THE HOUSE PROBABLY IS A PROPER TERM.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE AT THIS POINT.

YEAH. OKAY. SO WE'LL ADJUST THE MINUTES FOR YOUR FOR PURPOSES OF ACCURACY.

BUT IN FACT, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'VE WALKED AWAY, WALKED BACK ON THAT ONE SO.

OKAY. MASONRY PIER STRIKE, PLANTER BOX.

IS THAT OKAY, MISS SILVA? YOU GOT THAT? YES, SIR. THANK YOU.

IN THAT CASE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE.

MOTION. SECOND.

SECOND. THAT'S MOVED.

POYNTER SECOND [INAUDIBLE].

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOVING ON.

THANK YOU. THE VIDEO IS WORKING PERFECTLY.

OH, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE, GIVEN WHAT I WORE.

THE CAMERA IS ZOOMED IN ON YOU RIGHT NOW.

OKAY, GOOD, GOOD, GOOD.

MY MOTHER WOULD BE SO PROUD.

OKAY, MOVING ALONG.

[4.1 HDC 2022-0050 - MIKE STAUFFER, AGENT FOR MCDOWELL SOUTH, LLC., 224 S. 7TH STREET]

THIS IS FOR CASE HDC 2022-0050 224.

THIS IS MCDOWELL SOUTH LLC 224 SOUTH 7TH STREET TO ENCLOSE THE EXISTING PORCH IN NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE BUILDING, ENCLOSE THE EXISTING DECK TO A SCREENED PORCH AND BUILD NEW BRICK FIREPLACE AND CHIMNEY.

GOSH. I DON'T REMEMBER THIS CASE DIRECTOR HELP ME OUT.

YOU MAY NOT HAVE BEEN HERE. OH, THANK YOU, JIM.

I MISSED THAT POINT.

THANK YOU, JIM. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE HELP.

YES, MISS SYLVIE.

[00:10:01]

NOW RISE AND BE SWORN IN BY MISS SYLVIE.

RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

YES, YES. YES. THANK YOU.

VERY GOOD. THANK YOU, JIM, FOR CATCHING THAT.

WE'LL MOVE ON TO THIS CASE, THOUGH.

DIRECTOR, ARE YOU READY? PREPARED? ARE YOU PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT 0050? YES, SIR. THE APPLICATION THIS EVENING, AS YOU'VE INDICATED, IS SEEKING A FINAL APPROVAL.

A PREVIOUS APPROVAL AT THE CONCEPTUAL LEVEL WAS GRANTED IN DECEMBER OF 2022.

AND SO IT'S BEEN SEVERAL MONTHS SINCE THEN TO RENOVATE THE REAR OF THE STRUCTURE, INCLUDING ENCLOSING PORTIONS OF THE REAR PORCH AND THE REAR BACK DECKING AS A SCREENED ROOM AND THEN ADDING IN A FIREPLACE AND DECKING AND A NEW A NEW KITCHEN AREA.

UM, STAFF HAS REVIEWED FOR COMPLIANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE STANDARDS, INCLUDING THE CITY'S LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, AND SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION, AND FINDS IT TO BE COMPLIANT FOR THOSE STANDARDS, INCLUDING THE REQUESTS, HEIGHT, SCALE, MASSING AND MATERIALS, AND HAS ISSUED A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.

I DO HAVE THE IMAGES PROVIDED FOR YOU HERE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED, AS WELL AS THE EXISTING CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE.

THERE IS NO CHANGE TO THE FRONT FAÇADE.

THE WORK ITSELF IS BEING CONDUCTED AT THE REAR AREA AND AS YOU CAN SEE WHERE I'M FLOATING THE MOUSE ON THE SCREEN, IT IS ENCLOSING THIS EXISTING PORCH AS WELL AS THE DECKING AND ADDING IN.

THE ADDITIONAL KITCHEN AREAS.

THE ELEVATIONS OF WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED ARE INCLUDED WITH THE BACKUP MATERIAL AND APPLICATION MATERIALS FOR THE REQUEST.

BACK SECTION.

INCLUDING THE NEW BRICK CHIMNEY.

I'M TRYING TO GET TO WHERE THE NEW ELEVATIONS ARE FOR YOU.

EXISTING. THESE ARE THE PROPOSED ELEVATIONS. AND WITH THAT, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

QUESTIONS FOR DIRECTOR GIBSON.

[INAUDIBLE] DIRECTOR GENERALLY, WE DON'T SUPPORT THE ENCLOSURE OF PORCHES.

IS THIS ONE A LATER ADDITION? IS THIS ADDITION A LATER ADDITION? NON-HISTORIC ADDITIONS? YES SIR. I RECALL CORRECTLY 1826, I BELIEVE.

WELL, SO IT'S IN THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, BUT.

THE LATER ADDITION IT'S NOT INDICATED THE TIMING OF IT, BUT THE HOME ITSELF WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 1940.

DID YOU DO THIS REPORT OR DID SAL DID THIS REPORT? YES, SIR. OKAY. WELL, HE'S A STICKLER FOR THAT, SO I KNOW IF HE SAID IT'S OKAY, THEN I'M SURE IT'S OKAY.

BUT ALSO IT'S ON THE BACK, WHICH IS A LOT EASIER FOR ME TO STOMACH WHEN I CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE 7TH STREET SIDE.

THE OTHER THING THAT IT SHOWS IS THAT IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE IT WAS OVER ROOFED.

YEAH, WEIRD. YEAH, IT'S GOT THAT WEIRD ANGLE AND IT'S LIKE IT MUST HAVE BEEN SOMETHING THAT THEY OVER ROOFED AND IT DOES LOOK NATURAL.

YEAH. MICHAEL'S NOT HERE.

[INAUDIBLE] ARE YOU HERE REPRESENTING [INAUDIBLE]? ARE ALL PROJECTS IN TOWN [INAUDIBLE] NOW? I JUST. BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT.

WE'RE TRYING TO SHARE A LOT.

I'M TELLING YOU. ANY ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR DIRECTOR BEFORE WE PULL ROB UP? NO. OKAY.

MR. SULKOWSKI, IF YOU COME UP, GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

ROB SULKOWSKI 710 BEECH STREET.

FERNANDINA BEACH BUILT TO LAST CONSTRUCTION.

MIKE FELT SO BAD ABOUT POSSIBLY HAVING TAMMI COMPROMISED THAT HE HAS RECUSED HIMSELF TO THE MAYAN RIVIERA UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.

SO, YES, I PUT HIM THROUGH THE RINGER.

YEAH, I KNOW, I KNOW.

WE CAME BACK.

THERE WERE A COUPLE THINGS THAT CHANGED.

THE KITCHEN CHANGED, AND SO THE WINDOWS CHANGED ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

OKAY. THE WE'RE REUSING ALL BUT ONE WINDOW JUST BECAUSE WE NEED TWO WINDOWS.

SO THE NEW TWO WINDOWS ARE GOING OUT OR LOOKING OUT ON THE NEW THERE'S TWO WINDOWS AND ONE DOOR THAT ARE GOING OUT ONTO THE SCREEN PORCH.

NOW, FROM THE KITCHEN, THE DOUBLE FIREPLACE JUST FOR ECONOMICS HAS GONE BACK TO GOING TO A

[00:15:02]

AND IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

SO IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER IT, YOU'RE NOT NOT THAT LONG.

WE'RE NOT JUDGING. BUT IS IT SINGLE INTO THE KITCHEN OR ONTO THE PORCH? INTO THE KITCHEN. INTO THE KITCHEN? YEAH. YEAH.

OKAY. UM, AND THAT'S.

THAT'S ABOUT IT.

THE FOOTPRINT DIDN'T CHANGE.

LIKE I SAY, MARTHA JUST SORT OF TWEAKED SOME THINGS, BUT ENOUGH TO BRING IT BACK BECAUSE ROB WE EVEN HAD THAT LITTLE INFILL ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER THAT WAS APPROVED? YES. OH, YEAH. WHERE THE AC COMPRESSOR YEAH, YEAH. LIKE I SAID, THE FOOTPRINT DIDN'T CHANGE.

YEAH. OKAY.

SO THAT BLOCKS BUSY BETWEEN YOU AND YOU AND O'DONNELL QUESTIONS FOR FOR ROB? JIM YEAH, I DIDN'T I DIDN'T HAVE ANY ON THIS ONE.

IT WAS SEEMED PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

OKAY. I WANT YOU TO RELAY TO MIKE THAT I SO APPRECIATE HIS DRAWINGS ARE SO NICE.

LIKE WHERE HE HAS, LIKE, THE LITTLE GHOST DASH MARKINGS OF THE EXISTING ROOF LINE.

IT'S SO CLEAR.

AND YOU CAN SEE THE CHANGES AND HOW THEY RELATE.

AND THEN WE EVEN TALKED ABOUT WHERE HE'S BUMPING OUT THE NEW PART, PUTTING A CORNER BOARD ON IT.

YOU KNOW, HE LISTENED TO ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND IT'S SYMPATHETIC, BUT IT'S READILY DISCERNIBLE BY CHANGING THE EXPOSURE OF THE SIDING ON IT AND DOING THE DIFFERENT MATERIALS, BUT THEN STILL USING THE OLD WINDOW.

SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST I THINK HE DOES A GREAT JOB AND I KNOW YOU'LL DO A GREAT JOB IN EXECUTING IT, TOO.

THANK YOU. I WILL PASS THAT ON TO HIM, ESPECIALLY YOUR WINDOW PERSON.

SHE'S THE BEST. WELL, SHE IS.

SHE IS. BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S REALLY OUR ONLY COMMENT.

THAT PIECE OF TRIM DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN OLD AND NEW.

AND IT'S SO NICE TO SEEING AN ADDITION THAT MAKES A HISTORIC STRUCTURE MORE LIVABLE BUT DOESN'T OVERPOWER IT AND IT DOESN'T BECOME THIS.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S STILL THE BUILDING, RIGHT? AND IF YOU KNOW MARTHA, THAT'S MARTHA, RIGHT? YEAH. IT'S UNDERSTATED AND IT'S.

YES. YEAH. SHE'S NOT PUTTING A 2800 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION ON THE BACK OF YOUR HOUSE.

TWO STORY. YEAH, EXACTLY.

EXACTLY. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

ROB. CAN I REFER BACK TO WHAT MEMBER POZZETTA SAID ABOUT THE BRICK PIER AT 232? WE ACTUALLY TED RICHARDSON HAD REBUILT THAT PIER TWO DAYS AGO AND MY CUSTOMERS WALKED AWAY FROM THAT.

WE HAD A GROUP CONVERSATION.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HEARTY NEW ENGLANDERS.

THEY THEY APPRECIATE A SPIRITED DEBATE.

AND THEY SAID, OH, WELL.

AND THEY WALKED AWAY. AND THEY'RE NOT THAT'S JUST NOT IN THEIR NATURE TO TRY TO THEY SORT OF KNEW THEY WERE FIGHTING AN UPHILL UPHILL BATTLE.

GOTCHA. SO I JUST WANT TO THROW THAT IN THAT CASE.

YEAH. LIKE YOU SAY, IT'S DEFINITELY.

I SAW THE WORK. IT LOOKED GOOD.

YEAH. YEAH. THANK YOU.

AS EXPECTED. EXACTLY.

EXACTLY. THANK YOU, ROB.

YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO ADDRESS CASE 202 2-0050.

SEEING NO ONE WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

MOVING TO BOARD DISCUSSION.

IT'S A WINNER.

IT'S A WINNER. WINNER.

WINNER. CHICKEN DINNER. I VOTE TO APPROVE UNLESS THERE'S ANY DISCUSSION.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A MOTION. OKAY, LET'S MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2022-0050 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.

I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD.

THAT HDC CASE 2022-0050 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. MISS SILVEY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

PASS OUR REGARDS ON TO MIKE, WILL YOU? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

REALLY, REALLY GOOD.

GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. WE'LL MOVE ON TO CASE HDC 2023-0086 MIKLAS WHITE STREET.

[5.1 HDC 2023-0086 - JOEL + SANDRA MIKLAS, 1114 WHITE STREET (LOT 5 BLK 16]

SHOCKING DIRECTOR.

YES. GOOD EVENING.

APPLICATION BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS SEEKING APPROVAL TO A FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE AND A DETACHED GARAGE.

THE NEW RESIDENCE WILL BE LOCATED IN BLOCK 16 OF LOT FIVE ON WHITE STREET IN OLD TOWN AND WAS DESIGNED TO BE A TWO STORY TRADITIONAL COASTAL FARMHOUSE RESIDENCE TOTALING 2443FT² WITH A TWO CAR GARAGE AND A CONNECTED BREEZEWAY BETWEEN THE TWO STRUCTURES. STAFF HAS ANALYZED THE CASE TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE OLD TOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES IN TERMS OF ITS MATERIALS, SCALE

[00:20:04]

IT ALSO FINDS THAT IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS TO WARRANT APPROVAL AND ISSUES A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL. I HAVE THE ELEVATIONS HERE FOR YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT, AS WELL AS THE SITE PLAN AND WOULD WELCOME ANY QUESTIONS.

DIRECTOR THE SITE PLAN MEETS THE OLD TOWN SETBACKS THAT WE HAVE ASKED FOR? YES, SIR. AND IT'S NOT ON A CORNER.

I'M SORRY. AND LOT COVERAGE.

AND IT'S NOT ON A CORNER SO IT DOESN'T HAVE A MEDIAN IMMEDIATE [INAUDIBLE] ISSUE.

OKAY. QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD.

KELLY, I THINK YOU JUST ANSWERED MY QUESTION BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO ASK BECAUSE I SAW THE SITE PLAN, BUT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY GIVE THE CALCULATION ON LOT COVERAGE.

IT JUST SAYS PER ZONING.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE. I BELIEVE THAT IT'S BURIED IN THE APPLICATION MATERIALS.

THAT WAS AN AREA THAT I DOUBLE CHECKED BEFORE FINALIZING THE STAFF REPORT.

BUT LET ME LOOK THROUGH THAT SO THAT WE CAN POINT THAT OUT.

KELLY THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT I NOTICED THAT WAS A DISCREPANCY.

IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE, BUT UNDER THE STAFF SUMMARY, IT SAYS THE HOUSE WAS DESIGNED WITH A LARGE SINGLE ROOF DORMER WITH FISHSCALE, SHINGLES, ACCENTS. AND THERE'S THERE'S NO FISH SCALING IN THE DRAWINGS.

I APOLOGIZE. ONE CHANGED OR ONE.

IT WAS A TYPO.

OKAY. NOT.

NOT A DEAL BREAKER? NO.

NO. QUESTIONS FOR THE DIRECTOR.

YOU CAN SEE THE DETAILS ON SQUARE FOOTAGE IS PROVIDED.

2443 AND THEN UNDER ROOF IS 3000.

CORRECT. AND THEN I CALCULATED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND THE LOT AREA.

JIM, REMIND ME, WHAT'S THE LOT COVERAGE? MAX, I'D ASK KELLY IN OLD TOWN.

YEAH, THE LOTS ARE NOT SQUARE, SO THEY'RE NOT ROUND.

SO WHAT IS IT? SOME ODD CALCULATION.

I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

BUT YOU DID IT, AND YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

AND THE ARCHITECT DID, TOO.

SO, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO ASSUME THAT THAT'S GOOD FOR THE RECORD.

I WILL CONFIRM THAT FOR YOU WHILE THE APPLICANT [INAUDIBLE].

THANK YOU.

IS THERE SOMEBODY HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 2023-0086.

OKAY. IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 202 3-0086.

OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION, BOARD MEMBERS.

SO THE ONE ONE THING I PICKED UP ON WAS THE WINDOWS THEY HAVE SPECT.

OKAY. WHICH ARE THESE PREMIUM ATLANTIC VINYL SINGLE HUNGS.

OKAY. QUITE A FEW OF THE SINGLE HUNG WINDOWS, ESPECIALLY VINYL THAT WE'VE SEEN LOOK REALLY FLAT.

THEY DON'T HAVE DEPTH TO THEM AT ALL, WHICH IS THE KEY INGREDIENT THAT WE LIKE TO LOOK AT AND SEE ON THESE.

SO THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING ON MY LIST.

ARE THEY ON OUR LIST OF APPROVED? NO, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I HAD NOTICED, TOO, THAT THEY'RE NOT ON OUR APPROVED LIST.

NO. SO. SO YOU'RE THE APPLICANT? YES. WE ASKED YOU TO COME UP.

OH, I'M SO SORRY. DID YOU MISS THAT? OKAY, SO, COUNCIL, WITH YOUR PERMISSION.

YEAH. SORRY. I'M GOING TO REVERSE MY PROCESS AND BRING THE APPLICANT UP.

SORRY ABOUT THAT. SORRY.

SURE. DID YOU STAND AND WERE YOU SWORN IN? NO. SWEAR THESE NICE PEOPLE IN.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES. THANK YOU. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO USE ANDERSEN WINDOWS.

SO LET ME JUST SUGGEST THIS RIGHT OFF THE TOP, THAT THAT WE'LL MAKE A CONDITION OF YOUR APPROVAL, THAT YOU SELECT A WINDOW OFF THE LIST AND IT WILL BE SUBJECT TO STAFF APPROVAL YEAH, THAT SOUND GOOD? YEAH.

OKAY. [INAUDIBLE].

I MEAN, NO, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BEST COURSE TO GO THROUGH IS TO COORDINATE WITH STAFF BECAUSE THERE IS A LIST OF PRE-APPROVED AND. YEAH, EXACTLY.

I THINK YOU'LL BE HAPPIER WITH THAT RESULT ANYWAY.

WITHOUT A DOUBT. WHEN WE SPOKE WITH ANDERSEN.

SO WE HAVE THE NEW WINDOWS THERE AND I CAN GIVE THEM RIGHT INTO KELLY THANK YOU. MISS SYLVIA, JOEL AND SANDRA MIKLAS.

WE LIVE AT 1917 SAN MARCO BOULEVARD, UNIT TWO IN JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA.

[00:25:04]

YEAH, NOT BAD RIGHT THERE. RIGHT AT THE SQUARE.

WALK UP TO TAVERNA. YEAH.

AND THEY OPEN UP A NEW RESTAURANT RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT, SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR [INAUDIBLE] MIKLAS HERE? MAY I JUST SAY SOMETHING TOWARD THE DENSITY LOT DENSITY? THE FIRST PLANS WE SUBMITTED DIDN'T HAVE IT, BUT THE ARCHITECT ADDED IT, SO IT SHOULD BE IN THE SUBMITTING IN THE PACKET.

YEAH. OKAY, GREAT.

THAT'S MUCH HELPFUL. IT'S UNDER 45%.

ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO OFFER? NO. THE WINDOW CHANGE.

SO I'LL MAKE SURE WE WE PUT THAT IN.

YEAH. THAT WAS MY BIG. THAT'S IT.

WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. I DON'T WANT TO RUSH THIS, BUT.

YEAH, PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

THANK YOU. I THINK WE ASKED IF THERE WAS ANYTHING FROM THE PUBLIC.

[INAUDIBLE] BOB DOESN'T CARE, SO WE'LL MOVE ON.

IT'S GOOD WHEN YOU KNOW WE'RE GOING.

THANK YOU, GUYS. IT'S GOOD WE KNOW EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE.

OKAY, SO, BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE WITH THIS CASE? DON'T FORGET THE CONDITION WHOEVER MOVES IT.

YEAH. IF.

IF WE'RE MOVING.

YEAH. I DON'T WANT TO PRESUME.

I'M TRYING TO FIND THAT.

THANK YOU. YOU GOT IT.

YOU KNOW, IF IT WAS UP TO ME, WE'D ONLY BE LOOKING AT LOT COVERAGE SETBACKS IN OLD TOWN.

I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY BUILD ON BLACK OBELISK.

FINE. DO YOU HAVE IT? I HAVE IT UP. IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT, I DON'T HAVE IT UP.

I MOVE TO APPROVE CASE NUMBER HDC 2023-0086 WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE FINAL WINDOW SELECTION IS PRESENTED TO STAFF FOR APPROVAL AND IT'S OFF THE APPROVAL LIST AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE HDC 2023-0086 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? THANK YOU, TAMMI.

HEARING NONE. MISS SILVEY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

I JUST WANTED TO CORRECT THAT.

IT IS THE OLD TOWN TOWN.

OLD TOWN. OH, GOOD CATCH.

YOUR PATIENCE AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECT.

THANK YOU, GUYS. OKAY.

OH, TIM, GET OUT OF HERE.

YEP. WE'LL MOVE ON TO HDC 2022-0063.

[5.2 HDC 2022-0063 - TIM POYNTER, 116 N. 2ND STREET]

YES, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO DISCUSS THEM TOGETHER, PERHAPS EVEN REORDER THE CASES.

POTENTIALLY. THE SECOND CASE DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO BE A CASE ANY LONGER, GIVEN THE CHANGE THAT OCCURRED WITH THE EMERGENCY ORDER THAT WAS DECLARED. AND SO FROM THE TIME YOU ISSUED THE AGENDA UNTIL IT IS A WITHDRAWN CASE AT THIS POINT.

OKAY. I LEFT IT ON THE AGENDA INTENTIONALLY SO THAT THERE COULD BE CONVERSATION PUBLIC NOTICE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

SO THAT AND I KNEW THAT IT WOULD BE PART OF YOUR DECISION MAKING WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE REVISIONS THAT ARE BEING CONSIDERED.

OKAY. FOR CASE 2022-0060 THEN I'M GOING TO PROCEED WITH THE CASE AS AS PRESENTED HERE, RIGHT.

AND WE'RE GOING TO HEAR CASE 2022-0063 POYNTER 116 NORTH SECOND STREET.

DIRECTOR. YES.

GOOD EVENING.

THE REVISION BEING REQUESTED TODAY IS TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE MULTI USE PAVILION TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING AREA AND OPEN SPACE AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY AND TO REMOVE THE PICKLEBALL COMPONENT OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE.

OTHERWISE IT WILL JUST BE A MULTI PURPOSE PAVILION WITH A CATERING KITCHEN AND GARDEN AREAS CONNECTING TO THE ADJACENT, THE ADJACENT MINIATURE GOLF SITE AND STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE CASE.

UM, LET ME SEE REAL QUICK TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT MISSING ANY OTHER DETAILS.

I THINK I'VE COVERED EVERYTHING.

IT'S ADDING GREATER SEPARATION BETWEEN THE PAVILION AND THE ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL HOME SITES.

ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING, THE MINIMUM BUFFERING STANDARDS.

AND THEY WERE REVIEWED FOR CONSISTENCY WITH THE CRA OVERLAY, AS WELL AS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

AND STAFF HAS FOUND THEM TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE CRITERIA NECESSARY.

[00:30:03]

THE HEIGHT OF THE PAVILION STRUCTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED, SO IT WILL NOW BE AT 18FT, 11IN WELL BELOW THE MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE AT 35FT.

STAFF HAS ISSUED A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.

QUESTIONS FOR DIRECTOR GIBSON.

I DON'T HAVE ANY. YOU'RE MY GO TO JIM [INAUDIBLE].

HONESTLY, I THINK EVERYTHING THAT WAS KIND OF ON MY QUESTION LIST WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT LONG AGO, YOU JUST FIXED IT ALL WITH INCREASING THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER AND REMOVING THE SOUND OF THE PICKLEBALL COURT ADDRESSED THE BIG ISSUES THAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY.

SO, I MEAN, IF ANYTHING, IT'S IT'S BETTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE.

QUESTIONS NO.

THEN WE'LL BRING. HEY, TIM, YOU WANT TO COME UP, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.

TIM POYNTER 3967 FIRST AVENUE FERNANDINA BEACH YEAH, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN READING A LOT ABOUT NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE PICKLEBALL COURTS IN THEM AND THAT NEIGHBORHOODS ARE GETTING SUED OR PEOPLE ARE GETTING SUED NOT BECAUSE THE LOUDNESS NECESSARILY, BUT THE CONSTANT.

OKAY, THE CONSTANT. AND I CAME HERE BEFORE YOU, YOU KNOW, EIGHT MONTHS AGO OR WHATEVER AND SAID, IF IT IS A PROBLEM, WE WON'T DO IT RIGHT.

SO WE JUST THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE THE WHOLE SITE A LITTLE MORE INTIMATE.

UM, IT WON'T BE AS BIG AS WE.

SO THERE'S GOING TO BE WE'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE THE WALL, YOU KNOW, GOING AROUND, BUT IT'LL BE ALL GARDENED INSIDE.

SO INSTEAD OF POTENTIALLY 200 PLUS PEOPLE, IT'D BE MORE LIMITED TO 135 TO 150 PEOPLE.

A LOT BIGGER SEPARATION BETWEEN YOUR PROPERTY LINE AND BUT EVERYTHING ELSE STAYS THE SAME.

SO THE COMMERCIAL KITCHEN STAYS THE SAME AND THE WHOLE FRONT OF IT STAYS THE SAME.

WE'RE PRETTY MUCH ARE JUST SHRINKING THE ROOF BACK.

YOU CHANGE THE GATE SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANOTHER EMBLEM, CORRECT? SO YEAH, SO IT'S JUST GOING TO BE A SINGLE GATE INTO A NICE SPACE AND WE'RE ALSO PROBABLY GOING TO DO AN ARTIFICIAL TURF ON THAT SO WE CAN ABSORB ALL THE WATER ONTO OUR PROPERTY.

WILL YOU HAVE A VAULT UNDERNEATH? NO. WELL, WE DON'T THINK SO, NO.

I MEAN, THERE IS OUR OPTION TO TIE INTO THE CITY STORMWATER.

THEY STILL HAVEN'T STARTED.

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO START LAST JULY, BUT I MEAN, THEY'VE HAD ISSUES AND NOW THEY'RE HOPING TO GET GOING IN JUNE.

BUT STORMWATER NOT ON OUR PLATE.

YEAH, I'M JUST BUT I'M JUST SAYING BEFORE WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO BUT WE ARE REALLY INCREASING THE GROUND SPACE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WILL RETAIN ALL STORMWATER.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO.

YEAH. OTHERWISE WE HAVE AN OPTION TO TIE THE NEXT TIME YOU'RE HERE. I ASKED YOU IF ANY OF YOUR PROPERTIES HAD EVER HAD A NOISE COMPLAINT.

I THINK MAYBE WHEN WE FIRST OPENED CAFE KARIBO 20 SOMETHING YEARS AGO, RON SAPP LIVED UP THE STREET AND AND RON WOULD COMPLAIN WITH A GUITAR PLAYER WITHOUT AMPLIFICATION AT 8:00 ON A FRIDAY EVENING.

SO SINCE SINCE SO SINCE THEN WE ACTUALLY DON'T EVEN HAVE MUSIC BECAUSE IT'S NOT EVEN WORTH THAT.

[INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE.

YEAH. SO QUESTIONS FOR TIM.

TIM I'VE GOT TWO QUESTIONS THAT JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY.

YES. THE 152 OR 135 TO 150.

IS THAT UNDER COVER OR WITH THE TENT ALSO? NO, UNDER COVER. BECAUSE I SAW A NOTE ON HERE THAT YOU HAVE IN THAT BACKGROUND AREA WHERE YOU COULD ERECT A TENT.

A TEMPORARY TENT, IF SOMEONE SAID, HEY, I WANT TO I WANT TO HAVE YEAH, I WANT TO HAVE A FEW MORE PEOPLE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT IT WOULD NOT BE A PERMANENT.

YEAH. STRUCTURE AND THE ADJUSTMENT TO THE WIDTH AND THE SPAN.

DOES THAT REFLECT YOUR HOPE OF USING.

YES. REUSING THOSE TRUSSES, THE WOOD TRUSSES.

YES. OKAY. SO THAT IS THE THAT IS THAT IS USING THE WOOD TRUSSES.

OKAY. YEAH.

THAT'S ONLY 40 BY 40.

YEAH. YEAH. OKAY.

BUT THAT'S OKAY. I MEAN, IT'LL BE.

IT'LL BE WONDERFUL.

IT'LL BE BEAUTIFUL. AND WE'RE GOING TO TRY, IF WE CAN.

[00:35:05]

WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO USE THOSE IF WE CAN.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY TO TO UTILIZE THIS THE BUILDING.

THE BUILDING IS IN BAD SHAPE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE WAS TALK OF POTENTIALLY MOVING IT UP, PUTTING IT ON A BARGE, IT WOULD HAVE IMPLODED.

[INAUDIBLE] TO MOVE THE THE ROOF TO DO THE DEMO ROOF WITH THE ROOF? WELL, ACTUALLY, WE MIGHT DO SOME OF IT OURSELVES.

AND THEN WE TALK TO COKER CRANE BECAUSE IT'S IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE TAKEN IN SECTIONS AND DROPPED ON PROBABLY ONTO A FLATBED AND DRIVEN UP AND AROUND AND THEN DOWN SECOND STREET.

GOTCHA. YOU KNOW, GOING UP TO THE PORT, TURNING IN THAT BIG OPEN SPACE.

WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE IT IN MAYBE 20 FOOT BY 20 FOOT SECTION.

IS THERE. WHAT'S THE ESTIMATE OF THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL? I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT, BUT I'M A I'M AN OPTIMISTIC DUDE.

I THINK IT'S GOING I THINK WE'RE GOING TO PULL IT OFF.

I MEAN, WE WERE ENGINEERS HAVEN'T SAID NO, TIM, THERE'S NO WAY THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

THEY HAVEN'T SAID THAT. RIGHT.

AND YOU KNOW, COKER, I MEAN, THOSE GUYS KNOW HOW TO MOVE STUFF.

AND THEY SAID EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO PUT SOME STEEL BEAMS, RIGHT, YOU KNOW, TO LIKE, CRADLE IT TO GET IT UP AND OFF.

RIGHT. SO THEY'RE WORKING ON STRATEGIES ON HOW TO GO AHEAD AND DO THAT.

BUT IT'S OUR INTENTION THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS.

AND EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO USE LIKE SOME FLITCH PLATES OR SOMETHING ON THE TRUSSES.

OH, YEAH. NO, I MEAN, STABILIZE THEM.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THE METAL ROOF OFF.

OKAY. SO THE METAL ROOF IS GOING TO BE OFF.

WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO SAVE ALL THE WOOD CONNECTING THE ROOF CHOICES.

OKAY? WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO SAVE THAT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO CUT THE ROOF IN HALF, IF YOU WILL BREAK IT ON ONE OF THE BEAMS. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN PROBABLY THAT'S WHERE WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE STUFF SO IT DOESN'T DO THIS OR ANYTHING.

SO IT'S IT'S THERE.

AND THEN THEY'LL THEY'LL DO SOME STEEL BRACKETING, IF YOU WILL, TO TRY TO KEEP IT ALL IN ONE PIECE AND JUST PICK THE WHOLE THING UP AND DROP IT DOWN AND THEN GO OVER TO THE NEW PLACE AND THEN PICK IT UP AND DROP IT RIGHT ON AND THEN SECURE IT ON TO THE.

WILL THEY HAVE TO DO ENGINEERING CALCULATIONS ON THE WOOD? YES. THAT I ACTUALLY HAD SOMEONE THERE THE OTHER DAY DOING THE DENSITY AND STUFF, BUT IT'S PROBABLY GOOD.

YOU COULDN'T YOU COULDN'T BUILD THIS THING IF YOU WANTED TO NOWADAYS.

RIGHT? I MEAN, EVERY EVERY PIECE HAS A THROUGH BOLT.

I KNOW. I MEAN, EVERY PIECE HAS A THROUGH BOLT AND THEY'RE LIKE INCH.

NO IT'S IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY ALMOST LIKE PETRIFIED WOOD.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S, WE'RE, WE'RE OUT OF BOUNDS HERE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO.

I THINK WE'RE ALL FASCINATED BY YOUR PROJECT, WISHING YOU THE BEST LUCK, AND WE WANT TO LET US KNOW WHEN IT'S HAPPENING.

SO, YEAH, WELL, I'M SURE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO FILM IT, SO WE'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT.

YEAH. QUESTIONS? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? [INAUDIBLE] OKAY.

I JUST WANT TO MENTION THAT I APPRECIATED THAT IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GOT ANOTHER LAYER OF DRAWINGS IN THE SET FOR US AND I APPRECIATE IT BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT SOME MORE OF THE ANALYSIS THAT YOUR YOUR GUYS HAVE BEEN DOING SINCE WE LAST SAW IT.

AND I JUST WANT TO LAY OUT I APPRECIATE HAVING THAT EXTRA BIT OF INFO TO REVIEW AND LOOK AT.

OKAY. OKAY.

WE WILL. THANK YOU.

I UNDERSTAND MORE NOW SINCE I'M ON THAT SIDE, WHAT DO YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR? YEAH. NO, THAT'S GOOD.

GOOD. YEAH. WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK.

OKAY, THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO PUBLIC HEARING.

MR. CARPENTER, DO YOU HAVE COMMENTS? MS. LISA, ARE YOU GOING TO SAY ANYTHING TONIGHT OR ARE YOU OKAY? VERY GOOD. MR. CARPENTER, AND IDENTIFY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

BOB CARPENTER, 113 NORTH THIRD STREET.

WELCOME. I JUST I GUESS I HAD ONE QUESTION.

I'M PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE IN THIS ROOM THAT DOESN'T KNOW.

BUT DOES THIS PROJECT THAT YOU LAST TALKED ABOUT, IS THAT RELATED TO THE 116 NORTH SECOND STREET? IS THAT WHERE THIS IS COMING? YEAH, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOUR QUESTION WHAT YOU WERE DISCUSSING, MOVING.

OH, I SEE YOUR QUESTION, BOB. I UNDERSTAND.

YES THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS YES.

THE ROOF. THAT'S WHERE IT'S GOING.

OKAY. I JUST. YEAH, YEAH.

I COULDN'T MAKE IT. YEAH, WE WERE ABLE TO TAKE IT OFF THAT BUILDING.

THAT'S 231 AND PICK IT UP AND PUT IT OVER ONTO THAT INSTEAD OF A STEEL STRUCTURE.

[00:40:05]

SINCE. SINCE BOB VOICED HIS CONCERNS ABOUT PICKLEBALL PREVIOUSLY, I'VE HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE IN MY PICKLEBALL COURT.

BRIEFLY, I WENT, OH, MY GOD, IT'S NOT LOUD.

PLEASE, PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.

LISA FINKELSTEIN, 492 STARBOARD LANDING.

I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET.

THE DESIGN COUNCIL FOR FERNANDINA BEACH MAIN STREET MET YESTERDAY.

WE CONTINUE TO RECOMMEND AS A FIRST CHOICE FOR THE SIDEWALKS IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.

HEX PAVERS.

AND SO WE ARE AWARE THAT THERE ARE ORIGINAL HEX PAVERS LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF ATLANTIC BETWEEN 8TH AND 11TH IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE BECOME A PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE DETERIORATED SO MUCH, THEY'VE NOT BEEN MAINTAINED.

AND SO WE KNOW THAT THE CITY IS GOING TO NEED TO ADDRESS THEM.

AND AND WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT SIDEWALK MATERIALS PREVIOUSLY, WE DID SOME COST COMPARISON, HIGH LEVEL COST COMPARISON.

WE TALKED TO SOME OF THE PAVER SUPPLIERS IN IN THE JACKSONVILLE AREA.

WE TALKED TO SOME OF THE ENGINEERS THAT WORK IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN JACKSONVILLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY USING THE HEX PAVERS TO JUST UNDERSTAND WHAT SOME OF THE PROS AND CONS WERE AND THEN SOME OF THE COST COMPARISON.

AND ACTUALLY AT THE TIME, WE WERE REALLY LOOKING AT A COMPARISON BETWEEN HEX PAVERS AND STAMPED CONCRETE AND STAMPED BRICK AND THE HEX PAVERS WERE ON A COST BASIS FAVORABLE.

HOWEVER, THERE WAS STILL CONCERN ABOUT THEM.

SINCE THEN, YOU KNOW, IN PLACES WHERE SIDEWALK HAS HAD TO BE REPLACED, IT'S BEING REPLACED WITH BRUSHED CONCRETE OR UNDER NEW CONSTRUCTION.

IT'S BRUSHED CONCRETE.

SO BEFORE THAT CONTINUES TO BECOME THE STANDARD, YOU KNOW, OUR TWO GROUPS, MAIN STREET AND THE HDC, WHEN WE SAT DOWN WITH THE RESTORATION FOUNDATION, TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ESTHETICS IN THE HISTORIC DOWNTOWN AND EVERYTHING.

SO I JUST WANTED TO BRING THIS TO YOU AS A FORMAL GROUP THAT SPEAKS TO THE COMMISSION OR COULD MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER RECOMMENDING THAT HEX PAVERS AT LEAST BE PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE POTENTIAL SOLUTION FOR SOME OF THESE AREAS.

DOES THIS HAVE DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING RELATED TO THIS CASE OF WITH THE HEX PAVERS? WELL, THANK YOU. I HEAR YOU.

AND I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN THAT ESPECIALLY WHAT HAPPENED OVER ON ON CENTER ON ATLANTIC BETWEEN 8TH AND 9TH DURING SHRIMP FEST.

AND WE'RE SENSITIVE TO THAT.

ABSOLUTELY. AND WE ARE, TOO.

AND WE'RE SENSITIVE TO THE COST ISSUE AND THE MAINTENANCE ISSUES AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT WE WOULD JUST LIKE IT TO AT LEAST BE IN CONSIDERATION THAT WE HEAR YOU AND WE'LL TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

OKAY. IS THERE ANY THERE'S NO ONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO THIS CASE.

WE'LL MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION.

BOARD MEMBERS WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE? I'M PRETTY HAPPY WITH THE CHANGES.

I THINK THEY WERE ALL POSITIVE FOR THIS ONE.

IT'S NOT THEIR FIRST RODEO.

SOMEBODY MOVE IT, PLEASE.

YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.

I MOVE TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2022-0063 WITHOUT CONDITIONS.

AND I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 202 2-0063 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE.

THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND WATERFRONT REDEVELOPMENT AREA DESIGN GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME.

[00:45:10]

[5.3 HDC 2023-0088 - TIM POYNTER, 231 N. FRONT STREET C]

IT IS FUNCTIONALLY WITHDRAWN.

IT IS LEFT ON THE AGENDA FOR PURPOSES OF EVALUATING IF THERE IS ANY ADDITIONAL MATERIALS THAT THE BOARD NEEDS TO SEE BEFORE WE ISSUE AN EMERGENCY CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL UNDER THE CITED SECTION OF CODE.

THAT [INAUDIBLE] WOULD BE ISSUED IN CONNECTION WITH STAFF AND THE BOARD CHAIR.

BUT BECAUSE WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A HEARING JUST ONE WEEK LATER, I DID LEAVE IT ON THE TABLE SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE A BOARD LEVEL DISCUSSION.

YEAH, MY FIRST REACTION TO THAT WAS ASSUMING THAT WE COULD GET THEM TO AGREE THAT THE CONDITIONS AS THE ADDITIONAL MATERIALS REQUESTED SEEMED ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE AS BUILTS PHOTOGRAPHS. WHAT WAS THE OTHER TWO? I MEAN. HOLD ON, HOLD ON, HOLD ON.

LET US DISCUSS IT THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU.

WHAT DO WE GOT HERE? I'M ON THE WRONG PAGE.

DIRECTOR, IF YOU COULD HELP US OUT.

YES. SO UP TO THIS POINT AND WHAT I'VE RECEIVED FROM BOARD MEMBERS, THEY REQUESTED ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION WAS AS BUILT DRAWINGS, PHOTOS, WHICH I BELIEVE ARE PROVIDED WITHIN THE STRUCTURAL ASSESSMENT.

BUT THERE MAY BE SOME UPDATED PHOTOS THAT YOU MAY WISH TO CAPTURE.

OKAY. A HISTORIC STRUCTURE REPORT AND AN UPDATED MASTER'S FLORIDA MASTER SITE FILE.

WHAT IS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE REPORT? I BELIEVE THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD EVALUATE THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, DOCUMENT ITS HISTORY AND BACKGROUND AND BETTER ANALYZE THE VALUE IT HAS IN THAT PLACE AND TIME.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT PRESERVATION PLANNER COULD DO? I'M NOT SURE.

I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT TYPE OF DOCUMENTATION THAT GOES INTO IT.

GOTCHA. BUT IT DOES SEEM SUITABLE THAT SAL WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SOME BACKGROUND AND INFORMATION THAT COULD SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

YEAH, I THOUGHT THE PHOTOS WERE WERE GOOD, BUT I THOUGHT WE COULD DO BETTER FOR PURPOSES OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

HISTORIC. WELL, MAYBE SOME MORE INTERIOR PRODUCTS BECAUSE THE EXTERIOR THERE'S NOT MUCH, YOU KNOW, GREAT ABOUT IT ANYMORE.

BUT DID YOU SEE THE THING THAT TILSON DID AT THE MUSEUM? HE DID A HE DID THE BROWN BAG LUNCH ON FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION.

AND I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THAT EXTENT, BUT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE HE'S TALKING ABOUT HISTORIC STRUCTURES ON THE ISLAND.

YOU KNOW, AS YOU KIND OF GO THROUGH AND YOU FIND WHAT'S IN THERE AND I THINK BECAUSE THIS IS KIND OF A COOL BUILDING, IT'S THE LAST OF THE WORKING WATERFRONT BUILDINGS.

IF YOU COULD JUST CAPTURE SOME IMAGES.

I THINK INSIDE HE'S GOT A COUPLE LIKE RANDOM ONES.

BUT BUT I MEAN, IT'S IT'S A 40 BY 40.

THE DOWNSTAIRS IS JUST FOUR WALLS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE'S YOU OPEN UP DOORS AND IT GOES RIGHT TO OUTSIDE.

I MEAN, IT'S SO I CAN'T HAVE AN ANSWER.

I WOULD SAY THAT GO TO IT WITH THE MINDSET OF THIS THING IS GOING TO GO AWAY FOREVER.

IF SOMEBODY EVER WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS HERE, SNAP A PHOTO OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, WITH SOME WE WOULD WE WOULD ASK TIM.

WHAT WE WOULD ASK COLLECTIVELY IS THAT YOU GIVE SAL ACCESS BEFORE DEMO TO MAKE PHOTOS, MAYBE DO SOME SOME HISTORICAL DOCUMENTATION THAT HE CAN THEN SHARE WITH THE THAT HE CAN SHARE WITH THE MUSEUM.

BUT NO, I MEAN, THAT'S FINE.

IT'S YOU'RE FINE WITH LETTING PEOPLE INTO THE BUILDING TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS.

DIRECTOR OR INTERIM CITY MANAGER CAN CITY ENGINEER TONIGHT THE CITY ENGINEER IN THIS CASE CITY ENGINEER CHARLIE GEORGE.

[7. STAFF REPORT]

SINCE THAT REPORT, BOTH I AND THE CITY BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE GONE IN THERE AND LOOKED AT THINGS AND IT IS UNSAFE.

I MEAN, I WOULD NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE HAVING SOMEBODY GO IN THERE AND TRY TO GET THE KIND OF PICTURES I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

INSIDE IT'S BEEN SO BUGGERED UP OVER THE YEARS.

I DON'T KNOW IF I'D WANT TO USE THOSE AS THE PHOTOS AS A HISTORICAL RECORD OF WHAT THAT BUILDING IS.

I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY BAD.

AND IT'S BEEN I'M NOT SENDING STAFF INTO HARM'S WAY [INAUDIBLE].

IT'S JUST AND THE THING IS, I THINK THE PHOTOS AREN'T GOING TO DO IT JUSTICE OF WHAT YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE THE HISTORIC BECAUSE THERE'S THERE'S HALF WALLS.

THERE'S WALLS IN FRONT OF WALLS THAT HAVE BEEN TORN OUT.

THERE'S JOISTS THAT ARE BROKEN.

THERE'S THERE'S STUD WALLS THAT ARE HALF THERE AND HALF NOT.

[00:50:05]

AND IT JUST IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO I DON'T THINK YOU GET WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO TREASURE AS SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD LOOK AT AND SAY, WOW, THAT WAS REALLY COOL.

I MEAN, IT'S IT'S CAPTURED WITH THE HANDFUL OF PICTURES HE'S GOT UP.

THE ONLY THING THAT'S DECENT ABOUT IT IS THE WINDOWS AND THE TRUSSES.

THAT'S IT. THAT'S IT. AND AND EVEN UP THERE, IT'S VERY IT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO SEE WHAT IS HISTORIC AND WHAT'S NOT BECAUSE THERE'S OLD BEAT UP HVAC DUCTWORK UP THERE, ALL KIND OF DIFFERENT MATERIALS.

I I WOULDN'T WANT TO I WOULDN'T WANT TO SHOW THOSE PHOTOS AS SAYING, LOOK AT THIS GREAT STRUCTURE.

WE SAVED. THE MOST, MOST INTERESTING THING ABOUT IT IS WE'RE GOING TO SAY AND I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO PUT A PLAQUE ON IT AND SAY THIS.

IF YOU COULD DO SOME DOCUMENTATION, HAVE SOME PHOTOS TAKEN WHILE YOU'RE DOING DECONSTRUCTION, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BECAUSE THOSE WOULD THEN GO TO THE MUSEUM.

YEAH. I DO HAVE A QUESTION, THOUGH, PLEASE.

IN 2021, THIS REPORT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SAID THAT THE BUILDING SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED.

DO WE KNOW WHY IT WASN'T WHY? I MEAN, TWO YEARS LATER IT'S DECLARED UNSAFE.

WHY WASN'T IT DEMOLISHED? WELL, TWO YEARS LATER.

OKAY. AND IT HASN'T BEEN OCCUPIED.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST SITTING THERE.

SOME OF THE GLASS IS MISSING.

THERE'S ANIMAL FECAL MATTER IN THE IN THE BUILDING NOW.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF NO ONE DOES ANYTHING WITH THE BUILDING, IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GOING TO BE CONDEMNED BY.

AND I'M NOT ASKING FOR THE PERFECT TO BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD BECAUSE I AM VERY HAPPY THAT WE'RE ABLE TO SAVE THIS ROOF, HOPEFULLY, OR THAT IT'S YOUR INTENTION TO DO THAT.

AND ALSO THE WINDOWS, IF POSSIBLE.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS MORE A PROCESS ISSUE AT [INAUDIBLE] AT WHAT TIME DO WE TYPICALLY DECLARE SOMETHING UNSAFE? MAYBE THAT'S FOR MR. GEORGE. FROM THE CITY STANDPOINT, WE DON'T RIDE AROUND LOOKING FOR SOMETHING.

WE HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT THERE'S A POTENTIAL AND I WASN'T REALLY A WHOLE LOT OF AWARE OF MR. POYNTER'S PLANS UNTIL IT BECAME A LITTLE MORE PUBLIC.

AND ONCE THAT HAPPENED AND THEN WE GOT THE REPORT FROM ENVIRO ENGINEERING IS WHEN BOTH JIMMY PARR, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, AND I WENT, WHOA, WE BETTER GO LOOK AT IT.

SO THAT'S UNTIL THEN WE WEREN'T AWARE OF THE CONDITION OF IT.

ONE, BECAUSE IT'S LOCKED, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO GET IN.

DIDN'T KNOW WHO OWNED IT, THAT KIND OF STUFF, BUT WE WEREN'T AWARE OUT OF THE WAY.

YEAH. AND IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT AND SAYING, HEY, LOOK, YOU NEED TO GO LOOK AT THIS.

BUT ONCE WE GOT THE REPORT AND THEN SAW THAT ANOTHER STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HAD DECLARED IT UNSAFE, WE FIGURED WE'D BETTER FROM THE CITY STANDPOINT, WE'D BETTER CHECK IT AND MAKE SURE TO. IS IT THE OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DEMOLISH IT? YES, IT IS.

WELL, HE HAS 60 DAYS FROM THE TIME WE NOTICED, AND WE'LL GIVE HIM A LITTLE BIT OF TIME BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'VE HAD TO GO THROUGH WITH THIS.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE WATCHING THAT CLOCK.

AND IF HE DOESN'T DO IT, THEN WE'LL DO IT.

SO IF HE'S DEMOLISHING IT, HOW WILL YOU HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER HOW CAREFULLY IT'S DISMANTLED? OKAY. SO. AND YOU'LL BE PERFORMING OR HIRING THE WORK TO DO THAT.

SO THE OWNER IS RESPONSIBLE.

OKAY. AND TYPICALLY I NEED A LITTLE I'M HOPING TO GET A LITTLE LENIENCY ON THIS BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO SAVE THE ROOF.

AND IT'S A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO TO SAVE THE ROOF AND PICK IT UP AND PUT IT ON SOMETHING, THEN PICK IT UP, PUT IT OVER ON ANOTHER LOT, AND THEN PICK IT UP AGAIN AND PUT IT ONTO A BUILDING.

WELL, AS LONG AS THE JOBSITE SAFE AND WE AND WE WE RECOGNIZE WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO.

TYPICALLY WHEN YOU'RE WHEN AN ISSUE LIKE THIS IS DEMOLISHED, EITHER A FRONT END LOADER OR A BULLDOZER COMES IN AND JUST RUNS RIGHT THROUGH THE BUILDING.

WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE DO WANT TO RESTORE THAT HISTORY.

AND WE'LL BE WATCHING THAT CAREFULLY, TOO.

SO WHAT I'M UNCLEAR ABOUT CHARLIE AND OR KELLY, I'M NOT SURE WHO TO DIRECT THIS TO IS IF THIS WAS ORIGINALLY DEEMED UNSAFE AND IT SHOULD BE DEMOED AND IT'S THE OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY. AND NOW WE HAVE A NEW CIRCUMSTANCES THAT'S COMING IN AND WE'RE HAPPY WITH THAT.

WHY IS THE $1,500 APPLICATION FEE WAIVED AND WHY WAS IT PULLED TO ME THROUGH NEGLECT THEY LET THIS FURTHER ALONG. THEY SHOULD HAVE TO PAY THAT WELL.

[00:55:03]

WE ALREADY TOLD HIM THAT.

NO, YOU DIDN'T. IT WAS NEVER CONDEMNED.

IT WAS NEVER. IT WAS NEVER.

THERE WAS NEVER A SO IF WE BUT IF WE DEEM SOMETHING UNSAFE, THEN IT'S WAIVED.

NO, IF IF YOU COME TO US AND YOU SAID, HEY, THIS BUILDING WE THINK IS UNSAFE, UNSAFE, THEN HE WOULD HAVE TO YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO WE MAKE WE'RE MAKING HIM DEMOLISH IT NOW.

SO WHY WOULD HE TO ME, AS THE CITY MANAGER, WHY WOULD HE HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT HE'S BEEN TOLD TO DO? I GUESS BECAUSE HE LET IT DETERIORATE.

I MEAN, THAT'S LIKE IT ALMOST LIKE CIRCUMVENTS THE WHOLE REASON WE HAVE THAT IN OUR CODE.

IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE IT'S IN THE CRA OVERLAY.

OTHERWISE YOU WOULDN'T BE GOING IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD TO ASK PERMISSION TO TAKE A BUILDING DOWN.

IF THE CITY DEEMS IT TO TAKE IT DOWN, YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT DOWN.

YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S THERE'S NOT A THERE'S NOT A PROCESS TO SAY, CAN I TAKE DOWN A BUILDING THAT THE CITY IS SAYING YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT DOWN.

SO MAYBE WE SHOULD CLARIFY THAT SOMEWHERE.

WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO BRETT'S HAS BEEN DECLARED UNSAFE, BUT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

WELL, THE ONLY REASON THAT WAS BECAUSE OF A COURT DEAL.

THAT WASN'T BECAUSE LITIGATION.

CHARLIE, I AM NOT TRYING TO CRITICIZE IN ANY WAY.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WE DO HAVE LDC, RIGHT? WE HAVE POLICIES AROUND THE PROCESSES WE'RE SUPPOSED TO USE FOR ALL OF THIS STUFF, AND IF WE DON'T HAVE IT DOCUMENTED CORRECTLY, THEN IT COMES DOWN TO, WELL, SO AND SO INTERPRETED IT THAT WAY.

AND THIS INTERPRETATION STUFF IS GETTING US INTO DEEP, DEEP WEEDS.

SO I WOULD ASK THEN THAT YOU WORK WITH KELLY TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE LDC, FOR ANYTHING SURROUNDING THIS KIND OF PROCESS, NEEDS TO BE UPDATED.

OH, ABSOLUTELY WE'LL DO THAT.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DEMAND THAT SOME PEOPLE DO SOME THINGS.

WE DON'T DEMAND THAT OF OURSELVES IN THE CITY AND WE DON'T ALWAYS DEMAND IT OF OTHER PEOPLE.

I THINK THIS I THINK THIS ONE'S A LITTLE UNIQUE BECAUSE TYPICALLY THE APPLICANTS COME TO YOU FOR NOT TRYING TO JUST TEAR SOMETHING DOWN LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S UNSAFE.

THEY'RE TRYING TO TEAR SOMETHING DOWN BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING NEW.

SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S UNSAFE.

IT'S BLIGHT. IT'S TERRIBLE ON THE WATERFRONT.

WE'RE ABOUT READY TO START DESIGN ON WATERFRONT IMPROVEMENTS.

SO TO ME, IT LOOKS, YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMEBODY COMES TO YOU GUYS TO DO SOMETHING IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, THEY'RE USUALLY TRYING TO EITHER KNOCK DOWN A HISTORIC BUILDING AND PUT UP A BRAND NEW HOUSE OR NEW COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE OR MODIFY SOMETHING.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S UNSAFE, CAN'T BE USED.

SO IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S KIND OF HARD FOR ME TO TO TO LOOK AT THINGS THE SAME WAY.

THAT'S THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.

BUT NOT TO NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE, TO QUOTE A FORMER COMMISSIONER.

BUT I WAS RECENTLY TOLD BY A CITY EMPLOYEE THAT THE LDC IS THERE ONLY FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, NOT FOR MAINTENANCE.

AND THAT'S NOT TRUE. THANK YOU.

BECAUSE I NEED TO HEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THE CITY'S GOT A PROJECT GOING ON, IT NEEDS TO FOLLOW THE LDC, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY.

SO THAT PROCESS INCLUDES A BUNCH OF THINGS THAT WE FORCE BUSINESS PEOPLE TO DO DOWNTOWN FROM MY MAIN STREET DAYS, BUT WE DON'T DO IT TO OURSELVES IN THE CITY.

SO THAT'S THE PART THAT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE CLARITY IN THE LDC, THAT EVERYBODY GETS TREATED THE SAME BECAUSE THIS IS THE.

AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, HAVING ONLY BEEN THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER FOR THREE.

OH, COME ON.

IT'S BEEN FUN. WELL, NO, NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS I DON'T KNOW OF ANYWHERE WHERE THE CITY MANAGER HAS WAIVED THIS KIND OF FEE EXCEPT FOR IN SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

SO I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ROUTINE OR JUST.

BUT THAT'S THE VERY REASON IT NEEDS TO BE CODIFIED.

THERE NEEDS TO HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT SAYS IT CAN BE WAIVED UNDER THESE SITUATIONS.

SO WE HAVE A PERSON UP IN OLD TOWN THEY WANT TO DEMOLISH A HOUSE TO PUT SOMETHING UP NEW.

THEY HAVE TO PAY THE FEE.

YOU KNOW, THEY THEY BOUGHT IT, BUT THEY HAD TO PAY THE FEE.

THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THE CITY IS CONDEMNING THE BUILDING AND SAYING IT NEEDS TO COME DOWN.

YEAH, I HEAR YOU. I WOULD NOT BE COMING IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION.

SO WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE THAT IN THERE SO THAT WAY WE'RE NOT YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T COME BACK TO GET ANYBODY IN HERE.

WE JUST HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT WHEN WE TRY TO WRITE SOMETHING NOW WE'VE ADDED SOMETHING ELSE THAT NOW SOMEBODY ELSE FIGURES ANOTHER WORKAROUND.

SO WE JUST HAVE TO. YEAH, BUT YEAH, WE'LL LOOK, WE'LL GET IN, WE'LL GET INTO THAT.

BUT WHAT WE HAVE IS CITY EMPLOYEES WHO HAVE THEIR JOBS ARE TO ENFORCE THE LDC.

CORRECT. AND WHEN THEY DO THAT THEY SOMETIMES ARE CALLED OBSTRUCTIONISTS.

[01:00:02]

SO WHAT I THINK WE WOULD ALL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE ABOUT BECAUSE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND HISTORIC BUSINESS DISTRICT TO FERNANDINA ECONOMY, WE'D ALL BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH KNOWING THAT THE CITY AS A WHOLE VALUES THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT.

WELL, I WOULDN'T HAVE WAIVED THE FEE IF WE WEREN'T TELLING HIM HE'S GOT TO TEAR IT DOWN.

OKAY, I GOTCHA.

THAT'S ENTIRELY REASONABLE.

THANK YOU. ONE SECOND.

WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING IN TONIGHT.

WE KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG WEEK AND YOU'VE GOT A LOT GOING ON.

AND WE SURE APPRECIATE YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS.

NOT A PROBLEM. IT'S A VERY FEW TIMES I GET TO ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT ENGINEERING STUFF AND WE HOPE THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN FOR YOU SOON.

MR. SPINO. YES.

ARE WE BEFORE WE LOSE, MR. GEORGE, ARE WE GOING TO DISCUSS THE HEXAGONAL TILE? WE WEREN'T. THAT'S WE CAN DO THAT UNDER BOARD BUSINESS, IF YOU LIKE.

AND WE CAN MOVE RIGHT TO BOARD BUSINESS IF THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR YOU.

DIRECTOR, I WANT TO MAKE SURE.

SYLVIA I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT OFF THE RAILS HERE.

NORMALLY WE WOULD GO, WHERE ARE WE? WE'RE GOING TO GO INTO BOARD BUSINESS.

HANG AROUND, HANG AROUND.

TIM, I THINK YOU CAN COME BACK UP HERE IF YOU'D LIKE.

BUT WE HAD A DISCUSSION AND I BELIEVE WE GOT OUT OF IT WHAT WE HOPED FOR.

I HOPE. I WANTED TO JUST CLARIFY WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.

IS IT STAFF DO SOME EXTERIOR PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE STRUCTURE TO DOCUMENT IT AND PROVIDE THAT TO THE MUSEUM? YEAH, WE WANT TO PUT DOWN AS MUCH HARM'S WAY.

I MEAN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT SAL IS NOT PUT IN HARM'S WAY IN THE PROCESS OF DOING WHATEVER DOCUMENTATION THAT HE CAN.

AND TIM'S GOING TO HELP BY PROVIDING SOME DOCUMENTATION OF THE DECONSTRUCTION.

IF WE START TAKING THIS STUFF DOWN, WE WILL START SHOOTING PICTURES AND ALL THAT TO PROVIDE THAT.

BUT I MEAN, AS FAR AS THE BUILDING TO LOOK AT THE BUILDING, IT'S EMBARRASSING.

I MEAN, BUT WE DO HAVE OLD, OLD PICTURES I'VE SEEN.

RIGHT.

DIRECTOR, YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO OFFER ON HEXAGONAL PAVERS? NOT REALLY. I WISH THAT I COULD SPEAK TO THIS IN AN ELOQUENT WAY.

I CAN SPEAK TO IT.

I LOVE TIM LAUGHLIN.

I LOVE HIM. I LOVE.

I LOVE HIM. I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS IS A CITY THAT I MEAN, IF WE LOVE OUR DOWNTOWN AND WE LOVE OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, IF WE LOVE OUR KIND OF STUFF, THEN THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT WE SHOULD BE PUTTING OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS.

I THINK FOR US TO HAVE HEXAGONAL PAVERS.

OKAY. CITY ENGINEER, LET ME LET ME GO THROUGH THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT.

FIRST OFF, THEY'RE NOT MAKING THOSE ANYMORE.

WE DON'T HAVE A SUPPLY OF THE SAME TYPE THAT ARE INCH AND A HALF, SO WE'D HAVE TO GET NEW PRECAST.

OKAY. THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS, WE HAVE SEVEN PEOPLE TRIP ON THOSE THINGS.

SO THAT'S A LIABILITY ISSUE.

IT'S AN ADA ISSUE BECAUSE THEY DON'T STAY LEVEL.

THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THEM STAY LEVEL IS TO PUT A CONCRETE SLAB UNDERNEATH THEM WITH A SAND BED AND THE PAVERS ENCAPSULATED IN THAT.

THAT'S TRIPLE THE COST OF WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH PAVERS SITTING THEM ON THE GROUND.

THAT'S THE REASON.

AND PLUS, THE MAINTENANCE OF THOSE PAVERS FOR THE CITY STAFF IS ASTRONOMICAL.

COULD I JUST ASK CHARLIE, THE THE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE TRIP THAT I WAS AWARE OF WHEN WE CAME IN HERE WAS IN FRONT OF ONE HOUSE? THAT WAS ONE. OKAY.

THAT AREA.

I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS WHAT KIND OF SIDEWALK YOU PUT THERE.

AS LONG AS THOSE TREE ROOTS CONTINUE TO RAISE THE TILES OR CEMENT OR WHATEVER YOU PUT THERE.

WELL, IN SOME PART THAT'S TRUE.

BUT THINK ABOUT YOU'VE GOT PAVERS THAT ARE NOT INTERCONNECTED.

SO THEY EACH MOVE ON THEIR OWN.

SO OVER TIME, WITH RAIN, WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, THEY'RE GOING TO FLEX.

THE MINUTE THEY DO, THEY'RE NO LONGER ADA BECAUSE NOW YOU'VE GOT THIS.

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WOULD EAT US UP ON.

I'VE SEEN THAT BEFORE ON A SIDEWALK THAT DIDN'T MEET THE SLOPE.

[01:05:04]

SO THAT'S ONE THING.

THE OTHER THING IS THEY BREAK ALL THE TIME.

SO ONCE THEY'RE BROKE, YOU GO GET A NEW ONE AND YOU PUT IT IN AND NOW IT'S DISCOLORED FROM THE OTHER ONE.

SO YOU'RE NOT REALLY SEEING WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE.

THERE ARE AREAS LIKE IN FRONT OF THE COURTHOUSE, IN FRONT OF THE LIBRARY WHERE WE COULD DO AREAS THAT ARE OKAY, BUT DOING THAT THROUGHOUT THE CITY, THE MAINTENANCE COST WOULD BE CRAZY.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T FIXED ATLANTIC AVENUE IS BECAUSE THE COST IS TOO MUCH.

SO THERE'S THERE'S HISTORIC CITIES THAT HAVE THEIR REINSTALLING THESE AND THEY DON'T THEY DON'T USE A CONCRETE ORLANDO HAS.

OKAY. SO THE CONCRETE BASE KIND OF NULLIFIES THE WHOLE ONE OF THE REASONS OF IT, WHICH IS THAT IT'S PERVIOUS AND AND THEY DO LIKE A GEOTECH ENGINEERED SAND SET BASE.

SO THE WATER STILL GOES THROUGH.

IF YOU NEED TO ADJUST SOMETHING, YOU CAN ADJUST IT, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DOUBLE THE COST.

I MEAN, IT'S DONE IN HISTORIC EVEN IN THE NORTH WHERE THEY HAVE A FREEZE THAW, YOU GOT DIFFERENT SOIL.

WE'RE BASICALLY A SAND DUNE.

HAVE WE EXPLORED IT WELL OR WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE THE CONCRETE FOUNDATION, WHICH IS DOUBLE WORK, DOUBLE MONEY, ALL THE ALL THE WE'VE LOOKED AT SEVERAL CITY STANDARDS IN FLORIDA AND THEY'VE ALL GONE LIKE ORLANDO AND EVEN PARTS OF JACKSONVILLE HAVE GONE INTO THE CONCRETE BASE JUST FOR THE MAINTENANCE COST.

IS THAT WHAT I'M SEEING ON SAINT JOHN'S AVE IN AVONDALE? YES. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MOVE AT ALL.

IT DOESN'T MOVE AT ALL. THAT'S RIGHT.

NOW, IF WE COULD GET EVERYBODY TO QUIT WEARING FLIP FLOPS, THEN IT WOULD HELP, YOU KNOW? I'M SORRY. HAS THAT DECISION BEEN MADE? NO, WE'RE STILL WE'RE STILL WRESTLING WITH IT.

BUT WE'VE LOOKED.

WHOSE DECISION IS IT, CHARLIE? I THINK IT'LL EVENTUALLY BE THE COMMISSIONERS, BECAUSE WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL CREATE.

WE'RE GOING TO CREATE A STANDARD.

WE'LL GIVE THEM ALL THE OPTIONS, GIVE THEM ALL THE COST, AND THEN IT'LL BE UP TO THEM TO DECIDE WHICH ONE THEY WANT AS A STANDARD.

THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DECISION GIVEN THAT LAST TIME WE MADE A DECISION LIKE THIS, WE ENDED UP WITH THE LOVELY 1980S.

RIGHT. SIDEWALKS THAT WE HAVE.

RIGHT. IT'S A 50 YEAR DECISION, BUT THE AGGREGATE CROWD.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THE EXPOSED AGGREGATE.

SO SO I THINK THE ISSUE HERE WE'RE DEALING WITH BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE FREEZE THAW, IT'S TREES AND IT'S TREE ROOTS.

SO MAYBE THIS CAN BE A VERY POINTED, NARROW, NARROWLY DEFINED MAP. EXACTLY.

HISTORIC STRUCTURE.

NOT A LOT OF TREES OR THERE'S PALM TREES.

THIS IS GOING TO BE SAND SET PAVERS.

AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY FARTHER IS WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS CONCRETE BASE PAVERS.

EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO THAT ROUTE, WE WOULD SUGGEST.

LET ME JUST TRY TO BUILD CONSENSUS HERE VERY QUICKLY.

A TARGETED APPLICATION OF THESE PAVERS TO POINT BACK TO THE HISTORIC.

YEAH. AND THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY WE WERE SAYING THE COURT FROM THE COURTHOUSE.

THE LIBRARY? YEAH.

YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AND WOULD THE STAMPED CONCRETE, WOULD THAT.

SEE TO ME THAT THAT LOOKS SO ARTIFICIAL I MEAN, I KNOW BRUSHED CONCRETE IS TOO.

IT'S BETTER THAN BRUSHED CONCRETE.

BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BRUSH? CONCRETE.

WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU'LL SEE THE CRACKS IN THEM.

THEY GO RIGHT THROUGH THE LITTLE HEXAGONAL THAT'S STILL GOING.

I WOULDN'T I THINK YOU'D SEE IF THIS WAS ME, I'D DO THE COQUINA SHELL WE DID ON THE FRONT WATERFRONT.

THAT LOOKS CRAP. THAT IS.

THAT IS SO BAD.

THAT IS SO BAD.

YEAH. IN FRONT OF C AND D, THE WHITE.

THE WHITE. OH, YOU MEAN ON THE.

ON THE BOARDWALK. NOT NOT OVER THERE BY THE BETWEEN THE BOAT RAMP AND BRETT'S.

I'M TALKING ABOUT OVER HERE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO RESOLVE IT TONIGHT, BUT I THINK YOU'D FIND SUPPORT HERE FOR TARGETED APPLICATION OF THE HEXAGONAL PAVERS AND HISTORIC CONTEXT AND SOMETHING ELSE THAT.

THE ONES WE HAVE ARE 1905, AND THE ONES WE HAVE ARE HAVE DIFFERENT SHADES TO THEM ON PURPOSE.

THEY USE LAMPBLACK TO MAKE SOME OF THEM DARKER.

THE BIGGEST ISSUE WE HAVE RIGHT NOW WITH THEM, BESIDES THE CONCERNS ABOUT SAFETY, WHICH I BELIEVE WE HAVE IN THAT AGGREGATE STUFF TOO, BECAUSE OH YEAH, IT'S GOTTEN SHAVED DOWN SO MANY TIMES.

IT'S IT'S. WELL, OUR GOAL, OUR GOAL IS TO DO A DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION WHEN WE DO THE LIGHTING TO MAKE EVERYTHING AS RIGHT AS POSSIBLE LANDSCAPING, IRRIGATION, SIDEWALKS, ALL THAT.

AND THAT WOULD BE FABULOUS.

HOWEVER, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THOSE SIDEWALKS WERE CLEANED? THERE'S GUM ALL OVER THEM.

THAT USED TO HAPPEN TWICE A YEAR.

AND I HAVEN'T I DON'T THAT IN FRONT OF KARABAKH DID EVERY TWO YEARS.

IN SOME PLACES IT HAPPENED TWICE A YEAR AND PROBABLY ON CENTER IT'S JUST SPRAY PAINT.

WELL, THE ONE PROBLEM WE'VE HAD BECAUSE I KNOW BACK IN I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN WE DID IT LAST, BUT ONE THING WE GOT A BUNCH OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT WAS WE COULDN'T DO IT DURING

[01:10:09]

WE'VE WE GET THOSE COMPLAINTS CONSTANTLY.

YEAH. SO THAT'S THAT'S A DILEMMA.

BUT I DO AGREE THEY NEED TO BE DONE.

IT'S JUST HOW DO YOU DO THAT EITHER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT OR NOT? WELL, THERE WERE ANNOUNCEMENTS MADE THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST AS THEY DO NOW WITH STREET CLOSURES, JUST AS THEY DO WITH ANYTHING ELSE DOWNTOWN THIS WEEK OR TOMORROW, THIS STREET WILL BE CLOSED OFF FOR SPRAY PAINT.

SPRAY PAINT. WE'LL GET TO YOU.

PRESSURE WASH. WE KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.

YEAH. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU. WE'RE GOING TO RESOLVE THIS TONIGHT.

MISS FINKELSTEIN, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? PLEASE COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD.

I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT THE POWER WASHING WAS DONE WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN.

THROUGHOUT. YES.

AND IT WAS DONE PARTIALLY LIKE OVERNIGHT INTO THE MORNING.

SO TIMED SO THAT IT WAS OVERNIGHT IN THE BUSINESS DISTRICT AND TOWARDS THE MORNING FOR THE RESIDENTIAL PARTS OF IT.

HOWEVER, TO YOUR POINT, IT DID NOT TAKE UP THE GUM.

AND THE GUM ACTUALLY BECAME MORE APPARENT WHEN IT WAS DONE YES. AND THE OTHER THING SO THAT WAS AN ISSUE.

THEY DIDN'T NOTICE ANYBODY BECAUSE I WILL ATTEST THAT THEY DID, BECAUSE WHEN I CAME OUT OF YOGA, MY BIKE WAS COMPLETELY POWER WASHED.

WELL, I KNOW FROM A MAIN STREET PERSPECTIVE, WE DID LET PEOPLE KNOW AND I BELIEVE THE CITY WAS COMMUNICATING IT AS WELL.

BUT WHETHER IT WAS MORE THAN ON SOCIAL MEDIA, I'M NOT SURE.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN BOARD BUSINESS? I HAVE A QUESTION FROM I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS FOR CHARLIE OR NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING OR MAYBE KELLY KNOWS THE STATUS OF THE STOP WORK AT 606 CEDAR. THAT WAS THEY HAVE NOT COME IN TO APPLY.

I TALKED TO DIRECTOR ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY.

THIS HAPPENED AND IT KIND OF HAPPENED IN FRONT OF ME.

I SAW THEM TEARING THE WINDOWS OUT AND I'M LIKE THEY'RE IN A DUMPSTER. SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW? THERE'S A STOP WORK WELL, THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO US AT SOME POINT AND THEY HAVE NOT YET.

AND KELLY AND I ARE.

WE'RE WAITING ON DOCUMENTATION.

I KNOW THAT THEIR CONTRACTOR HAD SENT SOMEBODY IN TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY NEEDED TO PROVIDE TO US.

AND I SHARED WITH THEM THE DETAILS OF WHAT WAS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO COME BACK AND EXPLAIN THE TIMING OF THAT, THAT IT WOULD BE A BOARD LEVEL DECISION THAT LIKELY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK IN JULY.

OUR HANDS ARE TIED AT THIS POINT, BUT IT'S A MESS.

AND WE ALL KNOW SUE.

WE KNOW SUSAN.

AND WE'RE KIND OF SHOCKED THAT THIS HAPPENED ON HER WATCH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SHE'S A SCHOOL PRINCIPAL, FOR GOODNESS SAKE.

COMMISSIONER, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO ADD TONIGHT? YEAH. WOULD YOU COME UP AND TALK TO US, PLEASE? [INAUDIBLE] NORTH THIRD STREET.

THERE'S A PARKING WORKSHOP, RIGHT? I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE ALL AWARE OF THAT.

THERE'S A PARKING WORKSHOP ON THE NEXT CITY COMMISSION MEETING AT 5:00.

OKAY. OKAY.

THIS WILL BE IN JUNE. JUNE 6TH.

CORRECT. SOME OF THE AND I CAN SHARE WITH YOU THAT I'VE NOW WALKED BETWEEN ARLENE.

ONE MINUTE. GO AHEAD.

BETWEEN. BETWEEN THE RIVER AND 8TH STREET.

DADE STREET.

DADE. WHAT'S THE OTHER ONE DOWN THERE? CEDAR. [INAUDIBLE] I'VE NOW WALKED EVERY BLOCK, MEASURED HOW MANY PARKING SPACES YOU CAN PUT IN THERE, USING 22FT AS A PARKING SPACE.

AND I'VE GOT FOUR BLOCKS TO DO THAT.

I'M GOING TO HAVE THAT FOR THAT MEETING.

AND THAT'S A CAPACITY OF WHAT THE CAPACITY DOWNTOWN IS.

AND THEN WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THAT CAPACITY IS UTILIZED OVERNIGHT BY PEOPLE.

SO THAT'S WHAT LEAVES WHAT'S BEHIND.

NEED TO LOOK AT HOW MANY PRIVATE PARKING SPACES THERE ARE, RIGHT? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL, BUT COMMERCIAL.

THE OTHER ISSUES ARE PARKING ENFORCEMENT.

STATE LAW REQUIRES NO PARKING WITHIN 20FT OF A WALKWAY, 20 30FT OF A STOP SIGN, 15FT ON EITHER SIDE OF A FIRE HYDRANT.

BLOCK CAN'T BLOCK A SIDEWALK.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS THE THREE HOUR PARKING.

I TALKED TO TIM VASCO TODAY AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO ENFORCE THAT.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE WHETHER WE WANT TO DO THAT.

THE OTHER ISSUES ARE IDENTIFYING SIGNAGE AND STRIPING, SATELLITE PARKING, EVENT PARKING AND ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE PARKING DOWNTOWN.

[01:15:09]

I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU TO CALL ME AND COME UP WITH A SURVEY OF HOW MANY BIKE RACKS WE ACTUALLY HAVE.

WE HAVE A HANDFUL, BUT WE NEED PABLO'S LAST NIGHT.

THOSE BOYS ARE GETTING READY TO MOVE UP THE STREET HERE TO THEIR NEWLY.

THEY GOT THEIR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY TODAY.

THERE WERE EIGHT BIKES LOCKED UP TO THEIR FENCE THAT ARE COMING DOWNTOWN WITHIN THE MONTH WITHOUT A PLACE TO BE TO BE LOCKED UP, TOO.

SO WHAT I THINK WE'RE SEEING IN OUR COMMUNITY FORUM ON BIKING AND WALKING SAFELY IS THAT THE PARKING PROBLEM AND THE BIKING AND THE WALKING ISSUES ARE THE SAME ISSUE.

AND WE IF WE DEAL WITH THEM HOLISTICALLY, WE HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF RESOLVING THEM.

BECAUSE EVERY TIME I PUT IN A BIKE RACK, I TAKE A CAR OFF THE ROAD.

WITHIN THE DISTANCE EAST OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS TO 8TH STREET.

BROOM TO BEACH THERE ARE OVER 1100 PARKING SPACES.

OH, MY GOD. AND HOW DO I KNOW? I'VE COUNTED THEM.

OKAY. HEY, CHIP, DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF LIKE, DO YOU SEE A LOT OF GOLF CARTS TAKING UP FULL SIZE OR NOT SO MUCH? GOLF CARTS ARE NOT COMPACT.

I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS THE CHALLENGE.

THERE'S NO PROBLEM. THERE'S ONLY CHALLENGES.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE WHAT I CALL THE GEORGIA PICKUP TRUCK, WHICH IS THIS MONSTER CAN MAKE THEM A LITTLE SMALLER WITH FOR COMPACT CARS.

A COMPACT CAR IT'S A SMALL BUT THAT'S PARKING IS AN INTERESTING ISSUE.

MORE BIKING, MORE WALKING.

YOU'LL SOLVE.

ONE OF THE WAYS THAT THAT MIGHT INCREASE PARKING AND IT'S SIMPLY BY STRIPING A LOT OF THESE STREETS.

IN OTHER WORDS, PUTTING IN WHERE PEOPLE CAN PARK.

RIGHT. BECAUSE PEOPLE PARK.

SO YOU CAN'T THEY TAKE UP TWO SPACES WITH ONE.

SO IF YOU PUT WHERE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHERE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHERE TO PARK.

RIGHT. AND WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE AND YOU CAN HAVE MAKE IT MORE COMPACT BY TELLING THEM ON A PERFECT WORLD, WHEN YOU DROVE DOWN EIGHTH STREET, YOU'D SEE A SIGN THAT SAID THERE ARE NOW X NUMBER OF SPACES IN PARKING LOT.

THAT TAKES A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN ORDER TO DO THAT.

WELL, IT MAY NOT TAKE EFFECTIVE STRATEGY, MAY NOT TAKE AS MUCH AS YOU GO TO THE SECOND LEVEL.

WHAT DO YOU WANT, A PARKING GARAGE? NO, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, THERE'S AN APP CALLED HOTSPOT.

D IS ALMOST ALWAYS EMPTY.

PARK IN FRONT OF [INAUDIBLE] SPOT AVAILABLE.

TURN LEFT NOW.

ACTUALLY. BUT WE WOULD WRITE IT IN VICTORIAN SCRIPT.

TUESDAY, 5:00 [INAUDIBLE] CENTER COMMUNITY MEETING.

WE HOPE FDOTS GOING TO BE THERE.

AND I'M GOING TO TRY TO KEEP EVERYBODY ON A LEASH.

BUT I'M GOING TO KEEP EVERYBODY ON A LEASH IF THEY DO SHOW UP.

DIRECTORS DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED TO ADD? LUNCH IS PROVIDED, SO IT'S LIKE A BONUS.

WELL, NOT IF THERE'S ONLY TWO PEOPLE, BUT I'M TELLING EVERYBODY IT'S FREE AND THERE'S LUNCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH WE'RE GOOD 6:15.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.