Apr 20, 2023 Historic District Council

WE'RE GOING WITH MY PHONE.

[00:00:02]

[1. CALL TO ORDER / ROLL CALL / DETERMINATION OF QUORUM]

AND I APOLOGIZE.

SYLVIA DIDN'T GET THE WORD.

HE SENT IT DIRECTLY TO CAROLYN AND COPIED ME.

SO I'M ASSUMING THAT PROCESS OF REPLACEMENT IS MOVING FORWARD OR IT WILL BE.

WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT TOMORROW MORNING.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. LET'S RISE TO THE PLEDGE.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

SO WE WILL SEAT, WHO'S MY ALTERNATE? ARLENE? ARLENE, WITH YOUR AGREEMENT.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE ARLENE TONIGHT.

NO, MR. O'DONNELL WAS AN ALTERNATE.

BUT SINCE HE'S NOT HERE, ARLENE IS THE ONLY ALTERNATE HERE TONIGHT.

WAS MR. O'DONNELL? ONE, TWO. NO, HE WAS FOUR.

FIVE. I'M SORRY. MY MISTAKE.

THE FIRST ALTERNATE. WE DON'T NEED TO SEAT ARLENE.

SHE'S ALREADY SEATED AS THE ALTERNATE.

LET'S SEE. THANK YOU FOR KEEPING US STRAIGHT.

SO YOU DO THAT ANYTIME IT'S NEEDED.

OKAY. WE'LL START WITH MS. KOSACK ASKING ABOUT EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS.

NONE. NONE.

I'VE CHATTED WITH BASICALLY EVERYBODY ON THE 232 SOUTH 7TH STREET PROJECT.

YES. I SPOKE WITH STAFF REGARDING TONIGHT'S AGENDA ITEMS. ASK THEM QUESTIONS. OKAY.

CITY ATTORNEY, WOULD YOU PLEASE PRESENT THE QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEDURES? AND WE HAVE NO VARIANCES TONIGHT, SO THANK YOU.

WE DO HAVE TWO CASES, THOUGH, THAT WILL BE CONDUCTED AS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS AND ONE IS UNDER OLD BUSINESS.

ONE IS UNDER NEW BUSINESS.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS FIRST, SAL CARMELO WITH CITY STAFF IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION, INTRODUCE EVIDENCE INTO THE RECORD AS PART OF THE AGENDA PACKET TONIGHT.

YOU'LL SEE THE STAFF REPORT AND ANY BACKUP DOCUMENTATION AS WELL AS THE APPLICANT'S APPLICATION AND THEIR BACKUP DOCUMENTATION, WHICH I EXPECT THE APPLICANT AND OR THEIR AGENT IN EACH CASE TO PRESENT THEIR EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY.

SOME OF IT YOU ALREADY HAVE.

IF ANY AFFECTED PARTIES ARE HERE TONIGHT, WHICH MEANS YOU ARE A RESIDENT OF THE CITY, YOU'RE NOT LIMITED BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU GET TO SPEAK.

YOU CAN COME UP HERE AND PRESENT EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY FOR THE RECORD.

YOU CAN ALSO, ALONG WITH THE PARTIES, THE PARTIES ARE THE CITY, AND THE PROPERTY OWNER CAN ALSO CROSS EXAMINE EACH OTHER, CROSS EXAMINE EACH OTHER'S WITNESSES AND AFFECTED PARTIES. OR RESIDENTS CAN ALSO DO CROSS EXAMINATION AND CALL THEIR OWN WITNESSES.

SO TONIGHT, IN THE TWO CASES THAT YOU WILL BE MAKING YOUR DECISION BASED UPON COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR DECISIONS.

AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WHAT THAT IS BEFORE AND WE'VE HAD TRAINING ON THAT.

SO REMEMBER THAT LAYPERSON TESTIMONY IS YOU'RE WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE AND THE CREDIBILITY OF SUCH EVIDENCE, LAYPERSON, TESTIMONY.

I THINK I FEEL NOT BACKED UP BY ANY EXPERT OR FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THAT IS LAY TESTIMONY AND SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS SUCH, AS OPPOSED TO EXPERT TESTIMONY SUCH AS THAT FROM YOUR HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLAN OR MR. CARMELLA IS CONSIDERED EXPERT TESTIMONY AND SHOULD BE WEIGHED MORE HEAVILY AND CREDIBLY THAN THE LAYPERSON TESTIMONY.

SO IF THERE ARE NOT ANY QUESTIONS, IF THERE'S AN APPEAL OF EITHER OF YOUR DECISIONS TONIGHT THAT APPEAL GETS FILED DIRECTLY TO THE CIRCUIT COURT AND MUST BE FILED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE BOARD'S FINDINGS OF FACT.

THOSE ARE WRITTEN AND SIGNED BY THE CHAIR, USUALLY WITHIN 3 TO 5 BUSINESS DAYS.

SO ABOUT 35 DAYS FROM TODAY IS THE TIME PERIOD THAT YOU HAVE TO APPEAL ANY DECISIONS MADE TONIGHT.

THANK YOU. YES.

QUESTIONS? OKAY.

THEN WE WILL ASK ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO TESTIFY TONIGHT TO PLEASE STAND.

AND MISS SYLVIE WILL ADMINISTER THE OATH.

RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE ORAL AND OR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? I DO. I DO. THANK YOU.

[3. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES]

MOVE TO APPROVE. PRETTY GOOD.

CAN WE APPROVE? MOVE TO APPROVE.

SECONDED. EXCLUSIVE SECOND.

[00:05:04]

THANK YOU. AND THAT'S.

THAT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT'S HAPPENED IN ADJUSTMENT.

OUR FIRST CASE IS HDC2023-0084.

[4.1 HDC 2023-0084 - ARTISAN HOME BUILDERS, 205 BEECH STREET AMENDMENT to previously issued Certificate of Approval (COA) HDC 2017-03 to install sidewalk, retaining wall, and planters. (Quasi-Judicial)]

WE APPROVE THIS BACK IN 2019.

WHAT YEAR DID WE FIRST APPROVE? 2017. 2017.

WOW, MAN, I'M OLD.

AND SO WE'RE AROUND TO.

THEY'RE ALMOST DONE, RIGHT? GETTING CLOSE. THIS IS THIS IS PROBABLY THE LAST TIME WE'RE GOING TO SEE THEM.

GO AHEAD, SAL. GOOD EVENING.

I'M SAL CAMELLA CITY'S HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLANNER.

THIS CASE IS HDC2023-008 FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 205 BEACH STREET.

ZONED MU-1.

IT IS A VACANT PARCEL CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION.

THE REQUESTED ACTION IS AN AMENDMENT TO A PREVIOUS PREVIOUSLY ISSUED CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL, WHICH WAS HDC2017-03 TO INSTALL SIDEWALK RETAINING WALL AND PLANTERS.

THIS IS THE AERIAL OF THAT PROPERTY.

IT DOES SIT ON THE CORNER OF SOUTH SECOND STREET AND BEACH STREET.

I'LL RETURN TO THIS BECAUSE WE WILL BE LOOKING AT THE SIDEWALK CONFIGURATION AND YOU CAN SEE THAT FROM THE AERIAL.

WELL, AS WE SAID, THIS WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED THROUGH THE THE MASTER PLAN FOR HARBOR VIEW IN AS HDC2017-03 ON APRIL 20TH, 2017.

THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO AMEND THOSE TO RECONFIGURE THE FRONT STEPS WALKWAY AND ADD A PLANTER BOX.

SO ALL THE CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING ON THAT UNIT ARE AT THE FRONT OF THAT UNIT.

AND YOU CAN SEE HERE THE CHANGE BETWEEN THE PROPOSED OR THE ORIGINAL AND THE PROPOSED.

SO IT WAS APPROVED TO LOOK LIKE THIS, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO SOME OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS THERE DUE TO SOME CONSTRUCTION THINGS.

AND THE WAY THE SIDEWALK WAS PUT IN IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.

THERE'S THE NEED TO PUT IN PLANTINGS AND PUT IN A RETAINING WALL PLANTER BED OUT FRONT THERE.

SO THEY'LL BE KIND OF TWO LAYERS OF PLANTING, WHEREAS THE OTHERS REALLY JUST HAVE ONE LAYER OF PLANTING.

THE OTHER CHANGE IS THE FRONT STEPS.

THEY WILL COME STRAIGHT OFF AND INSTEAD OF THE SIDEWALK TURNING AND GOING PAST THOSE WINDOWS, THE SIDEWALK NOW WILL COME STRAIGHT OUT AND JOIN THE EXISTING SIDEWALK. AND SO THIS IS HOW IT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.

AND THE SIDEWALK ACTUALLY WASN'T CONSTRUCTED IN THAT MANNER.

SO WHAT WE SEE OUT THERE TODAY IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DUE TO THE DRAINAGE PROJECT AND SOME OF THAT OTHER STUFF THAT HAPPENED ON THAT CORNER.

AND I'LL JUST QUICKLY GO BACK TO THE AERIAL TO SHOW YOU AGAIN.

SO THIS IS THAT THE WAY THE SIDEWALK RUNS NOW, THE UNIT WILL BE HERE, THE AT THIS CORNER, THE FRONT ENTRY AND THE STEPS WILL EMPTY OUT ONTO THAT SIDEWALK STRAIGHT OUT, AND THAT PLANTER BOX WILL BE IN FRONT OF THOSE WINDOWS.

THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS ARE IN KEEPING WITH THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA GUIDELINES.

THE PROPOSAL ONE NOTE THAT WE HAD WAS THAT THE PROPOSAL DOESN'T DETAIL THE FINISH OR COLOR OF THE PLANTER BOX.

I THINK WE'RE ASSUMING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE STUCCOED AND PAINTED THE SAME COLOR AS THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE BUILDING.

BUT WE NEED THE APPLICANT JUST TO CONFIRM THAT TODAY.

SO I CAN CONFIRM THAT.

OKAY. WE'LL HAVE YOU COME UP AND DO IT ON THE RECORD.

STAFF FINDS THAT THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION IS IN KEEPING WITH THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS.

THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH COMP PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE WATERFRONT COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA GUIDELINES AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF HDC2023-0084. THANK YOU.

QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. SO I THINK YOU ANSWERED THIS WHEN YOU SAID THE REASON FOR THE CHANGE WAS DUE TO DRAINAGE.

THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A GRADE CHANGE ON THAT CORNER.

WAS THAT DRIVEN BY THE CITY OR.

YES. YEAH. SO THE CITY WE PUT THE SIDEWALK IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY THAN WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.

OKAY. SO WE DON'T ACTUALLY SEE A DRAWING OF WHAT THERE OTHER THAN THE ELEVATION, BUT WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN OF WHAT? HOW BIG IS THAT PLANTER BOX? DOES IT. IT'S PRETTY BIG.

GO RIGHT TO THE PROPERTY LINE.

DOES IT ONLY COME OUT TWO FEET? WHAT WHAT ARE WE APPROVING? SO IT IS REPLACING WHAT YOU SEE, WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS IN FRONT OF THIS HERE.

SO IT'S THAT AREA WHICH THIS ISN'T.

I DON'T HAVE THE DIMENSIONS ON THIS OFFHAND.

RIGHT. WILL IT EXTEND ALL THE WAY TO THE PROPERTY LINE THERE OR DOES IT ONLY GO A LITTLE BIT OUT?

[00:10:02]

WE'RE JUST A LITTLE SKETCH, AT LEAST TO SHOW US.

WE DO HAVE THAT IF YOU WANT.

YEAH, WE'LL GET THERE.

THANK YOU. BECAUSE THE WIDTH GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE BAY WINDOW ACCORDING TO THE ELEVATION, RIGHT? YEAH, THE WIDTH.

SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS IT COMES CLOSE.

YES. HOW CLOSE IT IS TO THE SIDEWALK.

THAT'S WHY SHOULD WE JUST GO AHEAD AND GET THE.

YEAH. YEAH.

COULD YOU COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

THANK YOU. YES, PLEASE.

YEAH. YOU'RE ACTUALLY TESTIFYING RIGHT NOW AND YOU'RE BEING RECORDED AND ANYTHING YOU SAY MAY BE USED WITH YOU BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE OWNERS OF ARTISAN HOMES.

AND I DO HAVE THE DIMENSIONS, IF YOU WANT ME TO EMAIL IT OR SHOW IT OR TELL US.

OKAY. SO THE PLANTER BOX WHERE IT COMES OUT IS COMING OUT FOUR FEET FROM THIS WALL RIGHT HERE.

AND FROM THE LOOKING AT THE SIDEWALK FROM THE RIGHT SIDE, IT RUNS DOWN TEN FEET OR IT CENTERED ON THAT ON THOSE TWO WINDOWS.

YEAH. AND THEN WHERE WE COME OUT FOUR FEET FROM THE FOUR FEET FROM THE FACE OF THE HOME, TOWARDS THE STREET, TOWARDS BEACH STREET.

AND THEN WHAT WE'RE BASICALLY DOING IS THIS AREA OVER HERE, WHEN WE READ THIS CORNER, I KNOW ANDRE HAD A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, OVER AND ABOVE THE ENGINEERING PLANS, WHICH KIND OF MESSED UP MY ELEVATIONS ALL THE WAY UP.

SO IT'S A PRETTY BIG DROP OFF.

IF I WERE TO DROP THE STAIRS OFF, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY WERE PLAYING.

SO WE'RE BASICALLY JUST EXTENDING THE LEAD WALK AND DROPPING THEM OFF WHERE THE NEW SIDEWALK IS.

GOTCHA. AND IT LOOKS LIKE IF I'M READING THIS RIGHT, THERE'S ABOUT SIX AND A THIRD FEET FROM THE TOWNHOME TO THE PROPERTY LINE.

SO THERE'S STILL GOING TO BE TWO FEET ON THE STREET SIDE.

IS THAT CORRECT? YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE PLOT PLAN? YES. I DON'T YEAH.

CAN YOU PULL UP CAN YOU PULL IT UP? YES. WE'RE FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.

WE'RE 15.37.

YEAH. AND THAT'S SO ON THE ON THE BEACH STREET SIDE, YOU GOT SIX FEET, IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER.

YOU SEE IT SAYS 6.33? 6.33. YEAH.

FROM THE FRONT TO THE IF YOU'RE FOUR, THERE'S STILL TWO, TWO AND A THIRD FEET.

THIRD, BASICALLY. OKAY.

YES, SIR. THAT WORK.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? JUST WANT TO POINT OUT IT'LL ALSO BE LANDSCAPED THE SAME WAY.

THE OTHER UNITS ARE JUST IN TWO LAYERS.

SURE. SO WHEN IT COMES, IT'S NOT BUTTING INTO THE EXISTING SIDEWALK.

YOU'VE GOT THAT BUFFER STRIP IN BETWEEN IT.

SO IS IT IRRIGATED? DO WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT V POLES OR DRAINAGE OR IS THE THE ARE THE BOXES? I DON'T THINK WE'VE ACTUALLY EVEN TALKED ABOUT THAT.

I MEAN, WE WE HAVE THAT THING MAINTAINED WEEKLY.

I WOULD THINK IT WOULDN'T BE IRRIGATED.

BUT WE HAVE THAT LOW FLOW.

I MEAN, IF YOU GUYS THINK IT SHOULD, I'D HAVE TO TALK TO MY LANDSCAPE GUY.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT DESIGNING.

WE'RE JUST I KNOW I'D HAVE TO TALK TO MY LANDSCAPE GUY, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

I'M NOT THAT GUY.

GOTCHA. BUT HOWEVER WE DO IT, IT'LL BE DONE THE RIGHT WAY, I THINK.

AND TO CLARIFY, THIS IS OUR LAST TIME HERE FOR THIS PROJECT.

IT'S BEEN GREAT. YEAH.

IT'S ONLY SIX YEARS GOING ON.

SHEESH, IT'S BEEN MY WORLD.

DID YOU WANT TO TELL US WHAT THE FINISH IS? IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST. IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME SMOOTH COAT, LIKE STUCCO OR, YOU KNOW, SMOOTH COAT.

LIKE WE DO OUR LARGER SLABS AND WE'LL JUST BRING IN THE SAME COLOR.

YES, MA'AM. THAT RESOLVE THAT.

OTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ALL RIGHT, TIM, DID YOU HAVE ONE ARLENE? NO. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WISHES TO SPEAK WITH REGARDS TO CASE 2023-0084? HEARING NONE. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND GO INTO BOARD DISCUSSION BOARD MEMBERS.

I THINK THIS IS ALL DRIVEN BY THE CITY, BY THE CITY MAKING THOSE CHANGES.

THAT'S A VERY REASONABLE SOLUTION TO THIS LITTLE PROBLEM.

IT BLENDS. IT DOESN'T STAND OUT.

IT SHOULD WORK JUST FINE.

WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO JUST IN OUR MOTION TO SAY THAT THEY STILL NEED TO SUPPLY SAL WITH A DRAWING OF WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO? THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. JUST IN CASE IT'S NOT CONTRARY TO WHAT WE JUST DISCUSSED AND AGREED.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU.

I WILL TELL YOU THAT THEY'RE ON THE PUBLIC RECORD AS SAYING AS TO WHAT THE DIMENSIONS ARE.

SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE.

HAVING SAID THAT, WHY DON'T YOU PUT IT IN A MOTION, JIM? YEAH, ALL RIGHT.

AS LONG AS NOBODY ELSE HAS SOMETHING ELSE TO SAY, I'LL DO THAT.

UM, I MOVED TO APPROVE HDC CASE NUMBER 2023-0084 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE ARTISAN HOMES SUPPLY CITY STAFF WITH A DRAWING INDICATING THE FOUR FOOT BY TEN FOOT PLANTER

[00:15:09]

FINISH IT AND THE FINISH OF THE PLANTER BOX ALSO BE INDICATED TO MATCH WHAT WE DISCUSSED TONIGHT, I MOVE THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2023-0084 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE WATERFRONT COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. SECOND MOVED POZZETTA SECOND KOSACK.

ANY FURTHER COMMENT? MISS SYLVIE, WOULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. WE APPRECIATE IT.

AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THOUGH, OVERALL, I THINK EVERYBODY'S REALLY PLEASED WITH HOW THIS PROJECT CAME OUT.

IT'S WE APPRECIATE IT.

APPRECIATE Y'ALL WORKING THROUGH ALL THE HICCUPS.

PERHAPS NOT EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM RIGHT NOW, I'LL TELL YOU THAT.

SOME PEOPLE WEREN'T BORN YET AND THEY'RE ALREADY SEATED ON THIS BOARD.

I'M A BIG FAN.

I'M A BIG FAN. SO THANK YOU.

I'LL EMAIL THAT TO YOU. YEP.

ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON TO 2023-0085 RICE FOR WEBBER AND SIEGEL

[5.1 HDC 2023-0085 - RICE ARCHITECTS, AGENT FOR KAREN L. WEBER + ANDEEW B. SEGAL, 232 S. 7TH STREET Certificate of Approval (COA) to remove section of garden wall between driveway and front porch, remove brick planter at front porch and replace with wood railing, and removal and replacement of the roof over the addition . (Quasi-Judicial)]

THIS IS TO REMOVE A SECTION OF GARDEN WALL BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND THE FRONT PORCH.

THAT'S A TRIP HAZARD. AND THEN THE BRICK PLANTER BOXES ON THE FRONT PORCH.

AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A ROOF OVER THE ADDITION ON THE NORTHEAST SIDE.

SO, YES, THANK YOU.

SO THIS IS HDC2023-0085, A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 232 SOUTH 7TH STREET, ZONED R-2.

IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE CONSTRUCTED IN 1926.

IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THE REQUESTED ACTION THIS EVENING IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL TO REMOVE A SECTION OF GARDEN WALL BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND FRONT PORCH, REMOVE BRICK PLANTER AT FRONT PORCH AND REPLACE WITH WOOD RAILING AND REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT OF THE ROOF OVER THE ADDITION.

THE PROPERTY. HERE'S THE AERIAL OF IT.

IT IS AT THE CORNER OF SOUTH SEVENTH AND CEDAR STREET.

REHABILITATION OF THIS STRUCTURE WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED THROUGH HDC2022-0068 ON SEPTEMBER 15TH OF 2022.

THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING A COA TO REMOVE A SECTION OF GARDEN WALL BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND THE FRONT PORCH.

IF YOU REMEMBER BACK TO THE 2022 APPROVAL, WE APPROVED PART OF THE GARDEN WALL TO BE REMOVED TO CREATE A DRIVEWAY ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

WHAT WE DIDN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AT THAT POINT WAS THE GARDEN WALL ACTUALLY GOES BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE FRONT WALKWAY UP TO THE FRONT PORCH.

AND SO THE WAY IT WOULD BE CONSTRUCTED NOW, THEY WOULD HAVE TO STEP OVER THAT WALL, CREATING A TRIPPING HAZARD TO GET TO THE FRONT DOOR AND THE FRONT PORCH.

THEY'RE ALSO SEEKING TO REMOVE THE BRICK PLANTER AT THE FRONT PORCH AND REPLACE IT WITH A WOOD RAILING AND TO REMOVE AND REPLACE THE ROOF OVER THE ADDITION.

THERE IS A LATER ADDITION AT THE REAR OF THE HOUSE, WHICH APPEARS TO HAVE A ROOF THAT WAS ADDED TO IT, WHICH IS A VERY LOW SLOPE ROOF.

IT DOESN'T MATCH THE PITCH OF THE THE CONTRIBUTING PART OF THE HOUSE.

AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO TO REHAB THAT SO THAT IT IS MORE IN LINE WITH THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE REST OF THE HOUSE.

AS FAR AS ANALYSIS GOES, THE GARDEN WALL, AS I SAID IN HDC2022-0068, WE ALLOWED FOR THE REMOVAL OF THAT PORTION OF THE WALL TO ACCOMMODATE THE DRIVEWAY.

THEY ARE NOW SEEKING REMOVAL OF THAT SIDE PORTION OF THE WALL OR OPENING IT UP A PORTION OF IT TO AVOID A TRIPPING HAZARD BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND THE FRONT PORCH WALKWAY. AS THE AS WE SAID IN THAT ORIGINAL APPROVAL, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES DIRECT THAT THE HISTORIC GARDEN FENCES AND WALLS SHOULD BE PRESERVED.

SO WE WANT TO MINIMIZE LOSS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT RECOGNIZING THAT KEEPING IT THERE IS A TRIP HAZARD.

AND WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO GET HURT TRYING TO GET INTO THEIR FRONT DOOR.

STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE SECTION TO BE REMOVED BE NO GREATER THAN FOUR FEET.

[00:20:01]

THE ADDITION THE ROOF ON THE ADDITION THAT LATER ADDITION TO THE HOME, AS I SAID, HAS A VERY LOW SLOPED ROOF AND APPEARS TO BE ADDED AFTER THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT ADDITION.

THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE THE ROOF AND RECONSTRUCT IT TO BE MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE PITCH AND DESIGN OF THE HISTORIC PORTION OF THE HOME.

STAFF FINDS THAT THAT PROPOSED CHANGE WOULD BE IN HARMONY WITH THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE HOUSE AND IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL.

WHEN LOOKING AT THE FRONT PORCH, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO REMOVE THE BRICK WALLS AT THE FRONT PORCH AND REPLACE THEM WITH WOODEN RAILINGS.

STAFF HAS INSPECTED THE PORCH AND BELIEVES THAT THE WALLS ARE EITHER ORIGINAL TO THE HOME OR A VERY EARLY ADDITION TO THE HOME.

THE COLUMN BASES ARE CONSTRUCTED WITH THE SAME BRICK, WHICH FEATURES A DISTINCTIVE STRIATED PATTERN AS THE AS A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE PROPERTY.

THIS SHOULD BE RETAINED.

STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DENIAL OF THE REQUEST TO REMOVE IT, AND WITH THAT STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF HDC2023-0085 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.

ONE THAT THE NO GREATER THAN A FOUR FOOT SECTION OF THE WALL BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND FRONT WALKWAY BE PERMITTED TO BE REMOVED AND TWO THAT THE FRONT PORCH WALLS ARE TO REMAIN UNALTERED.

THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR MR. KAMALL. SO I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT THEY DO ON SHEET B11.

THEY THEY CALL OUT THAT IT IS A FOUR FOOT CUT OUT FOR THE WALL.

SO CAN YOU I MEAN, I'M STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY IT'S TRIPPING HAZARD.

RIGHT. SO YOU PARK ON THE DRIVEWAY.

WHY WHY WOULD OPENING THAT ON THIS WAY? RIGHT. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON ON THE OTHER SIDE? THEY STILL HAVE TO WALK AROUND.

YEAH. THE PROBLEM IS, WHEN YOU GO FROM THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY TO THE YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO WALK RIGHT UP TO THE STAIRS AND GO INTO THE HOUSE.

AND AS IT IS THAT THAT GARDEN WALL.

SO WHERE THE ARROW IS ON THE SCREEN, THAT'S THE SECTION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY WE ALLOWED TO GO HERE BUT TO CROSS OVER THE THROUGH THE DRIVEWAY TO THE FRONT WALKWAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STEP OVER THAT PIECE OF WALL.

YOU'D HAVE THEM GO OUT ONTO THE SIDEWALK.

NO, I GET IT.

I UNDERSTAND. I'M LOOKING AT A PHOTO.

OKAY? I JUST DON'T I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WALKING AROUND THE CAR AND ON THE SIDEWALK AND AND THEN.

WELL, I GUESS THAT'S MORE A QUESTION.

MY OTHER CONCERN IS LEAVING.

MAYBE IF YOU IF YOU DO A FOUR FOOT PARTIAL CURB CUT, THEN YOU LEAVE LIKE A FOOT OF BRICK ON ONE SIDE.

WOULD THAT BE WOULD THAT BE STABLE OR WOULD IT BE MORE RECOMMENDED? IT'S ACTUALLY MORE THAN A FOOT TO THE HOUSE.

IT'S ACTUALLY IT'S PROBABLY ABOUT SOMETHING.

YEAH, IT'S LIKE A FOOT. I MEAN, IF YOU.

OH, YOU MEAN AGAINST THE HOUSE? YEAH, AGAINST THE HOUSE. YEAH.

YEAH. I GUESS I MIGHT ARGUE.

MY QUESTION FOR SAL WOULD BE WOULD IT BE MORE RECOMMENDED TO JUST CUT IT FROM OR START THE FOUR FEET WITH THE HOUSE OR JUST DO IT WIDER? WIDER. WHAT DO YOU THINK? I THINK I'D BE OKAY WITH EITHER.

I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE STABILITY OF THAT SHORT SECTION OF WALL.

UM, THE ONLY THING LEAVING THE LITTLE STUB WOULD DO IS PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXTUAL HISTORY OF KNOWING THAT, OH, THIS WENT ALL THE WAY, CORRECT? AND IT'S NOT THAT KIND OF A COOL LITTLE.

I THINK THE CITY INSTALLED THESE CURBS OR IT'S A STYLE THAT THE CITY DID WHEN THEY DID A LOT OF THE STREETS WHERE IT COMES UP AND IT HAS THE LITTLE PARGED TOP.

THEY WERE VERY COMMON THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

A LOT OF THEM WERE REMOVED VERY EARLY ON, BUT IT'S VERY COMMON.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR SAL.

I JUST WONDERING IF YOU COULD WALK US THROUGH THE THE THOUGHT PROCESS REGARDING THE RAILING ENCLOSURE? SURE. SO AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL, IT'S IT'S BEEN THERE QUITE A WHILE, MORE THAN THE 50 YEARS THAT MAKES IT MAKES IT A CONTRIBUTING PART OF THE HOUSE IN ITS OWN RIGHT.

WE LOOK AT CHANGES THAT OCCUR TO PROPERTIES OVER TIME AS BEING SIGNIFICANT THEMSELVES.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE, BUT IT DEFINITELY IS A VERY EARLY CHANGE TO THAT PORCH.

WHEN LOOKING AT THE BRICK, THE BRICK IS A VERY UNIQUE, STRIATED BRICK.

SO THE INFILL THAT WAS DONE ON THAT, THE PORCH MATCHES THE COLUMNS.

SO WHENEVER THOSE COLUMNS WERE DONE OR REDONE, AT SOME POINT THEY DO ALL MATCH.

THANKS. SO THAT BRICK IS ACTUALLY I MEAN, THAT WAS SO COMMON IN SO MANY OF THE CRAFTSMEN'S TOO.

THAT'S CALLED A VERTICAL SCRATCH BRICK.

AND MY MASON, WHEN HE DOES A LOT OF REPAIRS ON HISTORIC HOMES, YOU CAN'T FIND THAT ANYMORE BECAUSE WHAT THEY DID WAS AFTER THEY PUT THE BRICK

[00:25:04]

SO I MEAN AND IT AND THE STRIATIONS ON IT, IT DEFINITELY MATCHES THE COLUMNS AND EVERYTHING THAT WAS THERE.

AND I THINK THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT IT WAS DONE AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE HOUSE WAS BUILT.

I WOULD ARGUE WITH YOU ON THAT.

I WAS JUST OVER THERE. I KNOW YOU WERE THERE TODAY, TOO.

YEAH, IT'S BEEN PAINTED.

YEAH, IT'S HIDEOUS.

YEAH, THE PAINTING IS IS BAD.

THE MASONRY WORK ON THE INFILL AND ON THE PILLAR AT THE HOUSE IS NOT THE SAME MASONRY WORK AS ON THE.

ON THE ORIGINAL PIER COLUMNS.

YOU CAN TELL BY THE WAY THE THE GROUT AND MORTAR AND THE SPACING IS DONE.

AND WE WE ASKED THE ARCHIVE IF THEY HAD ANY PHOTOGRAPHS.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING OLD ENOUGH TO HELP.

YOU'RE TALKING BETWEEN THESE AND THESE OR BETWEEN THESE AND THIS AND THE CHIMNEY, THIS THE BRICKWORK HERE AND THE BRICKWORK HERE IS DIFFERENT.

IT'S DIFFERENT. AND IT'S REALLY NOTICEABLE ON THE ONE PIER THAT'S AT THE HOUSE SIDE, WHICH I'M NOT SURE WE HAVE A PHOTO OF.

YEAH. THAT ONE. YEAH.

SO YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, AND I'M NO MASON BUT YOU COULD LOOK AT IT AND YOU COULD SAY, OH WELL SOMEBODY DID THIS PROBABLY LATER, IT WASN'T AS WELL DONE.

AND A LOT OF TIMES WHAT CAN HAPPEN WITH THAT YOU'RE DOING THESE ARE FOUNDATIONAL, THE PIERS, RIGHT? SO YOU GOT ONE CREW IN DOING THAT.

AND THEN AT THE END OF THE JOB, YOU HAVE THE INFILL CREW COME IN.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE CREW NONE OF US WOULD KNOW ABOUT CONTRACTORS NOT BEING CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE YEARS ON THAT.

SO MY EYES TODAY IN FULL LIGHT WAS THAT THIS WAS DONE A DIFFERENT TIME.

IT'S ALSO YOU JUST HAVE THIS FEELING THAT A MASON MUST HAVE OWNED OR LIVED AT THIS HOUSE AT ONE TIME AND BROUGHT ALL THIS BRICK HOME AND DID ALL THIS WORK.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN WITHIN A FEW YEARS, LIKE YOU SAID, OF THE ORIGINAL 1926 CONSTRUCTION STYLE.

RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR SAL? BUT EVEN IF THEY WERE NOT FROM THIS OR DONE AT THE SAME TIME, STAFF SAYING THAT WITHIN THE PERIOD THEY THINK THEY THINK SO.

SO LOOKING AT THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, WE LOOK AT CHANGES THAT OCCURRED ON A PROPERTY THAT ARE SIGNIFICANT AS FAR AS BEING A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE PROPERTY AS BEING SIGNIFICANT IN THEIR OWN RIGHT, SHOWING THE EVOLUTION OF THE PROPERTY.

SO IT IS STILL SIGNIFICANT EVEN IF IT'S NOT ORIGINAL, TO THE HOUSE.

IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE HOUSE AROUND THE CORNER ON BEACH STREET THAT WAS HERE LAST MONTH OR THE MONTH BEFORE, WE HAD THE EXACT SAME CONVERSATION.

THEY WANTED TO TAKE OUT A WOODEN PORCH AND PUT ON A BRICK ONE OVER ON SOUTH BEACH STREET OVER THAT.

AND THE MIND BOGGLES.

THAT HOUSE HAS BEEN MODIFIED SO MUCH, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO TELL WHAT WAS THERE ORIGINALLY.

ROB, WHO'S SPEAKING ON YOUR BEHALF.

WOULD YOU PLEASE COME UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD? HI THERE. MY NAME IS JONATHAN VASQUEZ WITH RICE ARCHITECT.

THE NAME AGAIN, PLEASE. JONATHAN VASQUEZ WITH RICE ARCHITECT.

THANK YOU, JONATHAN. SO THE CURB CUT AND THE ROOF SOUNDS LIKE WE GOT IT FLUSHED OUT.

IT'S GOOD, RIGHT? THE LITTLE PLANTER UP FRONT.

I UNDERSTAND IT MAY HAVE BEEN MODIFIED LATER, BUT I THINK IN LIKE A CONTEXTUAL WISE, IF YOU DRIVE DOWN THAT ROAD, THEY'RE ALL WOODEN RAILINGS.

NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY WATER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I THINK WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO DO HERE IS MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK THE WAY IT SHOULD OR AT LEAST PRESERVE IT THE BEST THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

THAT THING, EVEN THOUGH MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT AT SOME POINT, IS IT RIGHT? PROBABLY NOT.

THE WOODEN RAILINGS WOULD PROBABLY LOOK A LOT BETTER AND WOULD ADD MORE VALUE TO THE HOUSE AND THE CONTEXT OF THE REST OF THE WORLD.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. VAZQUEZ.

YEAH, I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER.

BUT THE THE CONSIDERATION FOR REPLACING THE RAILING, IT'S AN ESTHETIC CONSIDERATION, RIGHT? THERE'S NO ISSUE.

NO, I THINK IT'S HISTORICAL.

AND THE FACT THAT THINGS KIND OF PRETTY MUCH FALLING APART, IT'S NOT IN GOOD CONDITION.

IT WILL EITHER GO AWAY BY ITSELF, CONTINUE TO FALL AND CONTINUALLY DECAY, WHICH WON'T BE BEAUTIFUL, OR WE CAN MAKE THE RAILINGS THE WAY THAT THEY WERE INTENDED AND THE WAY THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE.

YEAH, THAT THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

WHETHER OR NOT THOSE WOULD BE WOULD FALL DOWN IF LEFT TO THEIR OWN.

ALSO THERE'S REALLY NOTHING LIKE THAT AROUND THAT AREA.

SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S A UNIQUE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE, A UNIQUE BED FEATURE? YES. SHOULD BE PRESERVED.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. VAZQUEZ.

BUT I THINK I ALSO HEARD FROM MR. SIEGEL THAT JUST LIKE TO OPEN THE PORCH UP EVEN MORE USEFUL AS THIS KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A BRICK FORTRESS RIGHT NOW.

YEAH, EXACTLY. THERE IS A LOT MORE USABILITY TO THAT WOOD PORCH.

[00:30:05]

IS THERE ANYBODY OH, THERE'S NOBODY LEFT.

SO, ROB, YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? PLEASE COME ON UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF.

FOR THE RECORD, ALL MY FOLLOWERS LEFT.

ROB SULKOWSKI 17 BEACH STREET BUILT ARLENE CONSTRUCTION THROUGH THE THREE THINGS.

YOUR POINT ABOUT THE WALL.

THE ONE FOOT. WILL IT STAY THERE? I CAN TELL YOU, TED, IF TED RICHARDSON WERE HERE, HE WOULD SAY YES, IT WILL STAY THERE.

HE HAD TO BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THAT TO GET IT OUT OF THERE.

AND WHILE ALSO TRYING TO SAVE ENOUGH BRICKS TO PATCH THE SOUTH SIDE WALL, WHICH HE DID.

AND IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL. I ACTUALLY FOUND OUT I JUST SHARE THIS WITH YOU THE HISTORICALLY THE ADDITION, WHAT WE LOVINGLY REFER TO AS BEDROOM NUMBER TWO ON THE PLANS WAS A FLAT ROOF THAT A TREE FELL THROUGH.

AND APPARENTLY YOU CAN STILL SEE THAT THERE'S THE DAMAGE.

THEY JUST WENT OVER, FRAMED IT AND PUT A METAL ROOF ON IT AND CALLED IT A DAY.

SO YOU HAVE SOME REAL WEIRD LOOKS.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT.

YOU HAVE THE FLAT ROOF THAT'S RUNNING AROUND THE WHOLE THING.

YOU HAVE SOME PLYWOOD IN THE GABLES.

IT'S HORRIBLE. SO I'M GLAD THAT YOU GUYS SEEM TO BE FOR THAT.

AS FAR AS THE WALL GOES, I KNOW THAT KAREN AND HIS LOVELY WIFE, IF SHE WERE HERE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE SAYS IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SIT DOWN AND YOU'RE ALREADY SORT OF AT EYE LEVEL OF THE BRICK THEN THEY HAVE THESE PLANTERS.

WELL, OF COURSE, NOW YOU HAVE BRICKS FILLED WITH DIRT.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO YOU KNOW, IF YOU PLANTED IT, SHE SAID, NOBODY WOULD KNOW THEY WERE SITTING ON THE PORCH.

SO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE PLANTER BOXES ARE I CAN'T SEE THAT THEY WERE ORIGINAL.

ALSO, I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THAT CORNER.

THAT ONE PIER THAT'S NEAR THE HOUSE IS DEFINITELY I MEAN, THE MORTAR SHOT, IF YOU LOOK BEHIND IT, THE SIDING THAT RUNS ALL THE WAY BEHIND IT IS PAINTED WHITE.

THE CORNER POST AND THE CORNER OF THE HOUSE GOES DOWN AND IT STOPS AT THE CONCRETE.

I HAVE PICTURES ON MY PHONE, BUT IT STOPS AT THE CONCRETE FLOOR.

IT'S NOTCHED AROUND THE CONCRETE FLOOR, BUT IT'S PAINTED ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE CONCRETE FLOOR.

I AGREE WITH WHOEVER SAID THAT.

OBVIOUSLY, THE PIERS WERE THERE WHEN THEY TRIMMED OUT THE HOUSE BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T SUPPORT THE PORCH IF IT WASN'T THERE.

AS FAR AS COMING BACK AND DOING THE INFILL, YES, SOMEBODY DID THAT.

AND THEN THE THE IDEA THAT SOMEBODY WAS IN THE BRICK BUSINESS AND SAID, LET'S BUILD SOME LOVELY BRICK PLANTERS THERE, TO ME, THAT'S THE HORRIBLE THAT'S THE BRICK WALL.

YOU KNOW, CAN, CAN, CAN GO ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

BUT THE PLANTERS THAT ARE BUILT ON TOP OF IT ARE PRETTY HORRIBLE.

GOTCHA. SO PROPOSAL IS TO LEAVE THE PIERS AS THEY ARE AND ONLY REMOVE THE INFILL.

YES. YES. ROB, WHAT'S THE HEIGHT OF THE BRICK PLANTER RIGHT NOW? I THINK IT'S ABOUT THREE FEET.

IS IT THAT HIGH? YEAH, IT LOOKS LOWER.

THREE, SIX. IT'S MASSIVE.

IT'S OKAY.

AND YOU'LL YOU'LL GO BACK WITH YOU WANT TO GO BACK WITH THE 36 INCH.

YEAH. HOW MANY TYPES OF BRICK DID WE SEE ON THIS HOUSE, ROB? I WOULD SAY 3 OR 4. 3 OR 4.

YEAH. BECAUSE THE CHIMNEYS ONE.

YEAH. THE WALLS ANOTHER.

YEAH. THE SIDEWALKS. SOMETHING ELSE.

IT'S ON THE BOARD. YEAH.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THE JOINTS OF THE BRICK ARE STRUCK DIFFERENT ON THE PIERS THAN THEY ARE ON THE INFILL.

YEAH. THEY LOOK FAIRLY SOUND ON THE PIERS.

OH YEAH. THE PIERS LOOK FAIRLY SOUND COMPARED TO THE PLANTER BOX.

WELL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE WATER RUNNING THROUGH THEM.

SO. YEAH, NO, YOU'RE RIGHT.

YOU'RE RIGHT. THEY HAVE THOSE LOVELY THOSE LOVELY IRON PIPES COMING OUT THE FRONT OF IT, TOO.

THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN PROBABLY HANG CHRISTMAS LIGHTS ON THAT.

ARE THEY HOLLOW. DO THEY GO ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE CONCRETE.

NO. IT'S JUST THE TOP, LIKE MAYBE SIX COURSES THAT KEEPS ON GRADUATING FROM THE ORIGINAL WALL.

QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, ROB. YOU'RE WELCOME, ANDREW.

MR. VASQUEZ? ANYTHING ELSE? MR. SIEGEL, COME ON UP. I GUESS I COULD THROW MY TWO CENTS IN.

I JUST WANT TO ARTICULATE FIRST THAT MY WIFE AND I LOOKED AT THIS AND IT WASN'T AN ESTHETIC THING INITIALLY.

I'M SORRY, SIR. COULD YOU JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS? OH, I'M SORRY. ANDREW SIEGEL.

THANK YOU. ADDRESS 232 SOUTH 7TH STREET.

SORRY. THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU.

AND THANK YOU FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE COPING AND THE HASN'T HAPPENED YET.

OH, OKAY. YOUR CONSIDERATION.

THANK YOU. BUT IT WASN'T ACTUALLY AN AESTHETIC THOUGHT IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE WE JUST NEVER THOUGHT THAT EXISTED.

AND MY WIFE AND I HAVE DONE A NUMBER OF HISTORIC RENOVATIONS, AND I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH CONJECTURE, WHICH IS AN OPINION BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, A CONCLUSION THAT'S FORMED FROM MISINFORMATION.

[00:35:01]

SO MAYBE IT WAS THERE, MAYBE IT WASN'T THERE.

SO IN MY RESEARCH, I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO AND THEY MADE HUNDREDS OF THESE BUNGALOWS IN CATALOGS.

YOU COULD GO TO SEARS AND PICK OUT LIKE 300 OR 400 DIFFERENT RENDITIONS.

I YET TO FIND ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT.

I FOUND ONE BRICK ONE.

BUT THEY HAD BRICK POSTS THAT WERE LIKE BALUSTERS AND IT WAS OPEN.

SO MY THOUGHT WAS THAT IT LEAVES THE DOOR A LITTLE BIT OPEN TO BE ABLE TO REMOVE IT AND PUT WHAT TRADITIONALLY YOU WOULD NORMALLY SEE.

BUT IT'S A TOUGH CALL.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY OTHER THAN WE I LOOKED AT IT A MILLION TIMES AND IT DOES SEEM TO BE VARYING TYPES OF DIFFERENT BRICKS.

SO. AND JUST FOR MR. SORRY. YEAH.

MR. SIEGEL, YOU SAID DIFFERENT TYPES OF BRICK IN THAT PIECE ON THE FRONT PORCH AS WELL.

YES. I CAN'T TELL.

SOME OF IT MAY HAVE BEEN PASSED OVER.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS BRICK UNDER HERE IS THE SAME BRICK HERE.

AND THEN THEY PASSED IT OR THIS WAS HERE ORIGINALLY, BECAUSE THIS IS THIS LINE IS BASICALLY THE SAME ELEVATION AS THE PORCH, CONCRETE PORCH.

SO WHATEVER THIS WAS ADDED ON, WHETHER IT WAS ORIGINAL OR NOT ORIGINAL, I JUST CAN'T TELL.

BUT FROM WHAT I'M SAYING AND LOOKING AT ALL THE INFORMATION THAT I POSSIBLY WENT THROUGH IN IMAGES AND IMAGES, I HAVEN'T I'M PRESSED, HARD PRESSED TO FIND ONE. WAS THIS THE FERREIRA HOME? YES. AND WE CONTACTED THE FAMILY.

DID THE FAMILY HAVE PICTURES? WE DID. WE CONTACTED THE STILLWELL FAMILY AND.

AND HE CAME UP WITH ONE PICTURE AND IT WAS SO FUZZY, YOU REALLY COULDN'T TELL ANYTHING.

BUT IT DID HAVE THAT.

AND HE SAID HIS I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS HIS RELATIVE OR GRANDFATHER, BUT HE LIKED TO DECORATE IT FOR CHRISTMAS AND PLANT A LOT OF FERNS AND GREENERY.

AND SO MAYBE AT SOME POINT AT LEAST HE ADDED THESE 5 OR 6 COURSES, MAYBE THIS WAS ORIGINAL AND THAT WAS NOT.

BUT, WE'D LIKE TO GET RID OF SOME OF IT OR ALL OF IT IF POSSIBLE.

THANK YOU, MR. SIEGEL. WELL, THANK YOU.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE? WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE INTO BOARD DISCUSSION.

DO THE EASY STUFF FIRST, THE CUT OUT ON THE GARDEN WALL.

ALL THAT, I THINK FOUR FEET.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'D LEAVE THAT ONE FOOT IF THEY WERE ASKED.

SO PROBABLY GO AHEAD AND DO THAT.

THE NEW ROOF LINE ON THE ABSOLUTELY LOOKS LIKE IT'S BETTER.

IT LOOKS A LOT BETTER, WAY BETTER.

YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD BACK UP A LITTLE BIT.

REMEMBER, THEY WERE HERE PREVIOUSLY AND TORE OFF THAT LEAN TO THAT WAS ON THE SHED.

AND ALTHOUGH IT STILL LOOKS QUITE ODD, IT LOOKS A HECK OF A LOT BETTER THAN IT DID WHEN THAT WAS THERE.

THAT WAS BIZARRE. AND WE PROBABLY WANT TO GIVE SOME CREDIT TO MR. SIEGEL AND HIS WIFE FOR THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESOURCES THAT THEY POURED INTO THIS PLACE, BECAUSE IT WAS ROUGH.

IT WAS ROUGH. SO GOOD.

WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT THE THE PLANTER BOXES AND [INAUDIBLE] AN INTERESTING POINT HERE.

THIS MAY HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTED IN THREE PARTS.

RIGHT, PIERS? THEN A WALL, THEN THE PLANTER BOX OR IN TWO PARTS.

PIERCE AND THEN THE INFILL.

I'LL TELL YOU THAT AS I SHOWED YOU THAT PHOTOGRAPH ON THE THE HOUSE SIDE OF THAT ONE PIER, WHICH IS NOT REALLY A PIER, IT'S JUST EFFECTIVELY BECAUSE THAT'S UNUSUAL.

IS THAT ONE PIER GO AWAY IN THE NEW BECAUSE THAT'S JUST THERE'S NO SUPPORTING STRUCTURE FOR THAT ONE RIGHT IT'S JUST THE FRONT TWO THAT ARE SUPPORTING THE BATTERED.

EXACTLY RIGHT. EXACTLY RIGHT.

SO THAT LAST ONE WOULD GO AWAY COMPLETELY.

IT COULD. IN THE PROPOSED PLAN.

IT COULD. YEAH. I STRUGGLE WITH THIS FOR I MEAN, ALL THE OBVIOUS REASONS.

THAT'S IT'S YOU KNOW, WHEN I WENT THROUGH THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, THEY CALL OUT NOT ONLY MASONRY DETAILS BUT PORCHES. AND, YOU KNOW, IT SAYS THAT IT'S THEY'RE AN IMPORTANT IN DEFINING THE OVERALL HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING SO THAT AS A RESULT THE REMOVAL OF THE CHARACTER IS DIMINISHED.

YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE AN UNUSUAL FEATURE, BUT IT IS A PRETTY DEFINING FEATURE OF THIS HOUSE AND IT HAS BEEN FOR DECADES.

SO, I MEAN, THAT'S A REAL TOUGH ONE FOR ME WITH THAT OLD BRICK ON IT.

[00:40:03]

WE'VE GOT THE THE THE NINE OVER ONES.

AND I THINK YOU'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT TOO MANY DIFFERENT STYLES IN THERE.

AND I LIKED THE CORBELING OF THIS BRICK.

I DON'T LIKE THAT IT'S BEEN PAINTED MAYBE A GENTLE WASH, BUT SO I STRUGGLE WITH IT.

THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I GOT.

I GUESS MY FEELING IS I THINK THE TOP, THE TOP FOUR OR 5 OR 6 COURSES COURSES WAS ADDED ON AT A DIFFERENT TIME.

IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS THE SAME INFILL TO ME.

YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES, IT JUST LOOKS LIKE.

SO THAT IS THE THAT 5 OR 6 COURSES, THAT'S THE PLANTER BOX.

AND THEN UNDERNEATH THAT IS MORE SOLID.

YEAH, PERHAPS.

WELL, PERHAPS, I MEAN.

WELL, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK DOWN RIGHT.

UNFORTUNATELY I THINK THE WAY THAT YOU DETERMINE THIS IS WHEN YOU START TO DEMO IT, IF THOSE BRICKS ARE TIED INTO THAT PIER, GUESS WHAT? THOSE ARE ORIGINAL, RIGHT? IF THEY'RE NOT TIED INTO IT, I START TO SUSPECT IT.

MAYBE AT SOME POINT THEY ARE TIED IN BECAUSE THERE'S NO YOU DON'T SEE ANY SEPARATING OR ANY JOINTS OPENING UP ON THERE THAT YOU MIGHT EXPECT IF THEY WEREN'T TIED IN SOMEHOW.

THAT'S A GOOD POINT. I'M STRUGGLING WITH THIS, TOO, BECAUSE I KIND OF I KIND OF FEEL LIKE, YEAH, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE OTHER HISTORIC PORCHES AROUND THERE.

AND IN MY MIND, THAT ALMOST LEADS MORE TOWARDS MAYBE IT SHOULD KEEP IT BECAUSE IT'S UNIQUE.

IT'S A STRUGGLE ON.

IT'S HARD TO TELL. IT CERTAINLY IS A HIGH TOP AND BAR.

HIGH BAR STOOLS.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ON YOUR PORCH.

WELL, IF YOU IF YOU TOOK OFF THE FIRST FIVE COURSES, THEN YOU'D HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO GET IT BACK TO CODE, RIGHT? RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW, I'D ALMOST SAY THAT THAT PIER THAT'S UP AGAINST THE HOUSE LOOKS LIKE IT NEEDS SOME REPAIR WORK.

AND MAYBE WE COULD KIND OF TABLE THE PORCH.

THEY CAN DO SOME REPAIR WORK ON THAT PIER AND SEE IF IT'S TIED IN.

IF IT'S TIED IN, IF IT'S NOT TIED IN, THEN MAYBE THAT GIVES US.

YEAH, THAT'S TIED INTO TO THE PLANTER.

YEAH. NO, THE PLANTER TIED IN THE SIDE PLANTERS.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF IF THAT WAS ALL BUILT AT THE SAME TIME AND THE BRICKS ARE THERE LACED IN, THEN IT WAS PROBABLY DONE AT THE SAME TIME.

IF IT ACTUALLY IS JUST BUTTED UP TO IT AND IT'S STUCCOED, THEN IT WAS PROBABLY THEN WE KNOW IT WASN'T.

IT WASN'T. IT WASN'T. IT WAS AN INFILL BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT A COAL JOINT RIGHT THEN EVERYTHING'S COMING DOWN.

RIGHT. BUT BUT THAT MAN, IT WAS THERE.

IT WAS ALL RIGHT. IT'S ALL ORIGINAL.

THE PLANTERS JUST IN THE FRONT.

IT DOESN'T GO AROUND TO THAT BACK HOME.

WHAT'S THAT? DO WE HAVE A PICTURE OF WHAT'S THE SAME HEIGHT? WHAT'S ON THE SIDE OF IS ON IT.

IT'S A THE PICTURE.

YEAH. THERE'S. THIS IS SO IT'S.

IT'S JUST INFILL BUT NO PLANTER.

IT'S STILL THE BRICK THOUGH ON THE SIDE.

IT'S THE SAME BRICK DETAIL ON THE SHORT SIDE.

YEAH. THERE'S STUFF IN IT.

THIS IS THE ONLY HERE.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, HE'S. YOU'RE RIGHT.

TAMMI. BECAUSE THERE'S NO DRAINAGE.

THE OTHER FRONT HAS WEEP HOLES IN THE SIDE BUT THAT THE HOLES ARE FOR THE.

THAT'S FOR THE PORCH, FOR THE CONCRETE BASE OF THE PORCH.

IT'S NOT FOR A PLANTER. THESE ARE ONLY SIX COURSES.

YEAH, BUT THE BUT THE BRICK CARRIES ON THE SHORT SIDE.

SORRY. THE INFILL BRICK CARRIES ON TO THE SHORT SIDE.

THE WEEP HOLES ARE OVER HERE BECAUSE THEY DON'T.

THEY DON'T GO INTO THE PORCH ITSELF, SO THEY ARE RECLINERS.

CAN I SAY ONE THING? OUR FINISHED GRADE, ACCORDING TO JONATHAN OF THE FLOOR OF THE PORCH, IS TWO FOOT ABOVE THE GRADE TO THE POINT THAT WE HAVE TO RAISE IT TO 36IN.

ISN'T THAT OUR POINT? I KNOW WE'RE 20IN ABOVE AND WE ARE RAILING IS ONLY 20 INCHES TALL BECAUSE CODE DOESN'T KICK IN THERE.

OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. OUR CODE KICKS IN, SO IF WE'RE AT TWO FOOT, WE COULD MAINTAIN SHORT WALLS.

IT'S 30IN.

AND IF IT'S 30 INCHES AND I THOUGHT IT WAS STAIRS.

STAIRS ARE DIFFERENT THAN PORCHES.

SO IF YOUR PORCH IS AT 30IN OR MORE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A RAILING.

FOR RESIDENTS, IT'S 36.

IF YOU'RE 29 OR LESS, YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING.

WE'RE WAY BELOW THAT. LOOK AT THOSE TREES.

OKAY. OKAY.

THANK YOU. SO WONDERING ABOUT WHERE WE'RE GOING HERE.

[00:45:05]

OKAY. THAT'S FROM THE LIBRARY.

IT'S FROM THE STATE. THE STATE MASTER SITE FILE.

THEY KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU.

I DO. WHAT ARE WE THINKING, FOLKS? I'LL TELL YOU, I WOULD PREFER NOT TO CONTINUE.

I THINK WE SHOULD MAKE A DECISION.

IT COST THE OWNER AND THE CONTRACTOR MONEY IF THEY HAVE TO COME BACK.

TIME AND MONEY IF THEY HAVE TO COME BACK.

AND THAT BOTHERS ME, I THINK I'D BE MORE INCLINED TO GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER RATHER THAN DO A DECONSTRUCTION AND LEARN FROM IT.

BUT I COULD BE TALKED OUT OF THAT.

I'M NOT. I JUST THINK ABOUT THE THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING THE APPLICANT'S COST, ESSENTIALLY.

WELL, I'M JUST GOING TO PUT OUT THERE THAT I THINK THE REPUTATION OF MR. SIEGEL PRECEDES HIM AS DOES THE REPUTATION OF ROB WITH THE NAME BUILT TO LAST.

AND I MEAN, I THINK THESE ARE ALL AMAZING GUYS, AND WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER ON LOTS OF DIFFERENT PROJECTS.

I JUST CAN'T SEE THIS ONE PART OF THIS BEING DONE.

I JUST CAN'T SEE IT.

AND I'M GOING TO NEED A LOT MORE CONVINCING BECAUSE I THINK YOU CAN RESPECT IT AND DO SOME GREAT THINGS WITH IT.

AS A DEFINING CHARACTER OF THIS UNIQUE HOME WITH THE CONSTRUCTION METHOD, FLIP YOUR SWITCH ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

IF THEY DECONSTRUCTED THE PIER IN THE CORNER IN ORDER TO REBUILD IT AND CAME BACK AND TOLD YOU WHAT THEY FOUND, WOULD THAT CHANGE YOUR MIND? PROBABLY NOT.

I WOULD BE THERE. THAT WOULD BE MY POSITION.

MY POSITION IS IF I WAS TO DECIDE TODAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, I WOULD FIND IT VERY HARD TO TO APPROVE IT.

I SEE IT AS A BIT OF PRESCRIPTION, AND I GET THAT BECAUSE IT'S BEEN THERE FOR SUCH A LONG TIME THAT IT HAS ESTABLISHED ITSELF AS BEING WHAT IT IS AND I JUST I JUST DON'T WANT YOU TO GET THE IMPRESSION THAT WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESTHETICS ONLY BECAUSE WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT IT DIDN'T GO THERE.

IT DIDN'T BELONG THERE BECAUSE NONE OF IT I CAN'T I CANNOT FIND ANOTHER.

WE CONTINUE PROPERTY LIKE IT THAT PORTION OF THIS APPLICATION THE THE I BECAUSE IT'S ALL ONE CAR NUMBER I CAN'T DIVIDE IT OUT INTO PIECES.

SO YOUR INFLEXIBILITY? SO WE HAVE APPROVED THE TWO CARS NOT THIS ONE AND THEY CAN ALWAYS COME BACK LATER.

YEAH THEY PAY FOR THAT.

I MEAN I WAS TO COMPLETE MY THOUGHT THERE.

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME.

YES, THEY WOULD. THEN THEY'D HAVE TO YOU GET ONE FREE REDO.

IF THEY CAME BACK A THIRD TIME ON THIS PROJECT, WOULD THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT APPLICATION.

NO, WE WOULD DO AN AMENDMENT AND THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS ALWAYS FREE.

OKAY, COOL. SO I DON'T HEAR VOTES FOR TEARING THIS THING OUT.

IT'S A NEW CASE. LET'S APPROVE THE FIRST TWO PARTS AND IF THEY WANT TO COME BACK TO US LATER, THEN WE'LL DO THAT BECAUSE I.

WHERE ARE YOU? COME BACK TO US LATER WITH SOME.

SOME WERE TO COME WITH MORE EVIDENCE.

RIGHT. I'M WITH OKAY IF IT'S INTEGRATED STATE.

IF IT'S NOT, I COULD BE CONVINCED THAT ARLENE WHERE ARE YOU.

WOULD I FEEL OVER HERE TRYING TO FIND THE HISTORY OF THIS HOUSE? IT'S HARD TO FIND. I'M SORRY.

IT'S HARD TO FIND. IT'S THE [INAUDIBLE] NAME IS A BIG DEAL NAME.

AND I THINK THEY PROBABLY WERE THE BUILDERS AT ONE POINT.

OKAY. I FEEL STRONGLY THAT WHATEVER WE CAN PRESERVE OF THOSE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY, WE SHOULD TRY TO DO THAT.

I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF TRYING TO EXPLORE WHETHER THAT'S REALLY ORIGINAL OR NOT, BUT I DON'T TECHNICALLY KNOW HOW THAT WOULD BE DONE.

YEAH, WHEN THEY REMOVE.

SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE HEARING HERE IS WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE THE FIRST TWO PARTS DECLINE, THE THIRD ONE.

BUT IF YOU WANT TO COME BACK LATER AND TALK ABOUT IT, WE'LL BE AMENABLE TO THAT CONVERSATION.

IS THAT FAIR? YEAH.

WOULD THERE BE ANY COMPROMISE IN US AT LEAST GETTING RID OF THE PLANTERS, LIKE 5 OR 6 COURSES OF THE PLANTERS, WHICH CLEARLY SEEM TO BE AN AFTERTHOUGHT TO ME.

THAT DOESN'T LOOK ORIGINAL. I'M SORRY, BUT.

OKAY. YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS IF WE CAN DOCUMENT THAT IT'S NOT INTEGRAL TO THE TO THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, I THINK THAT WOULD KIND OF CHANGE OUR OPINION. BUT BUT IF AFTER SOME SELECTIVE DEMOLITION OR SOMETHING CAN BE PROVEN THAT IT IS TIED TO THE STRUCTURE, I THINK EVEN THE TOP PART, IN MY

[00:50:03]

THAT'S OKAY. ARE THERE MASONS OUT THERE THAT CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT? WE ARE REALLY NOT ALLOWED.

TO DO THAT? NO, NO, I'M ASKING IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

FIND SOMEBODY THAT HAS CREDIBLE KNOWLEDGE TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT WAS INTEGRATED OR NOT.

INTEGRATED TO THE. YES.

THERE YOU GO. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING.

SOUNDS REASONABLE. TAMMI YOU GOING MOVE US.

AND THEN WHAT? WE WOULD REQUEST A HEARING AGAIN? YEAH. YES. OKAY, SO YOU'RE SAYING IT WOULD BE AN AMENDMENT TO TO THIS CASE.

BUT SO BEFORE THE VOTE IS TAKEN, IF THEY TURN IT DOWN, IN OTHER WORDS, LIKE DECLINE OR DENY THAT PART OF IT, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE CODE LIKE THERE IS WITH A VARIANCE THAT YOU CAN'T COME BACK ON THAT VERY SAME THING? NOT THAT I KNOW OF. ON ON.

NO, NO. SO IF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS IS TURNED DOWN OR DENIED OR ANY PART OF IT, THEY CAN COME BACK ANY TIME WITH THE VERY SAME REQUEST.

I'M GOING TO BE EVEN A LITTLE MORE LEGALISTIC HERE.

WHAT IF WE JUST APPROVED WHAT WE WANTED TO APPROVE AND THEN DIDN'T MAKE A JUDGMENT ON THE ON THAT PART OF THE APPLICATION? THEY COULD COME BACK AND AMEND THAT.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS. IT'S ANOTHER CASE OR SO YOU'VE GOT THREE PARTS OF THIS THE ROOF ON THE ADDITION, THE SIDEWALK, THE REQUEST AND THE.

SO BASICALLY YOU'D HAVE TO MAKE.

YEAH. SO BASICALLY BEFORE WE PASS JUDGMENT, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SO WE'RE NOT OTHER CASE, BUT THAT WOULD BE CONTINUING TO.

I DON'T THINK THAT CREATES ANY PROBLEMS FOR YOU.

NO, NO. JUST SAY THAT YOU'RE NOT YOU'RE NOT MAKING A JUDGMENT.

YOU'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION. IT'S OPEN ENDED.

BUT DIDN'T SAY JUST TELL US.

WE CAN'T DO THAT. YOU SAID YOU CAN'T CONTINUE IT AND JUST SAY IF IT COMES BACK.

IN OTHER WORDS, LEAVING IT HANGING OUT THERE, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT YOU'RE NOT MAKING A JUDGMENT.

YOU WANT US TO DENY IT'S PART OF THE REQUEST.

SO YOU GOT TO ACT ON.

SO WE WOULD HAVE TO. SO CAN WE AMEND IT SO THAT THEY HAVE TO DO SOME FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION? YEAH, THAT COULD BE A CONDITION.

CONDITION? CONDITION.

AWKWARD MOTION. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, I MOVED TO.

I GUESS THIS WOULD BE APPROVED.

HDC CASE NUMBER 2023-0085.

WITH CONDITIONS THAT NO GREATER THAN A FOUR FOOT SECTION OF THE GARDEN WALL BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND THE FRONT WALKWAY PERMITTED TO BE REMOVED.

AND THAT THERE IS FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION OF THE MASONRY PLANTER BOXES TO DETERMINE TO A APPROXIMATE APPROXIMATELY DETERMINE WHEN THEY WERE ADDED TO THE BUILDING.

AND I MOVED THAT THE HDC MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW PART OF THE RECORD THAT HDC CASE 2023-0085 AS PRESENTED IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO WARRANT FINAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME WITH THE CONDITIONS BEFORE WE VOTE THAT MY QUESTION WITH THAT MOTION IS THAT IT'S NOT SAYING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO US.

WE YEAH, THEY'RE NOT.

YEAH. THAT MOTION IS SAYING IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT IT'S DECONSTRUCT MOVE TO AMEND YOUR MOTION TO INCLUDE.

BACK TO THE BOARD. BACK TO THE BOARD? AMANDA IS THAT WHAT HE SAID? WE'RE COMING BACK TO PROVE THAT TAMMI USED SO SHE WOULD INSERT PROVE TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COUNCIL.

YES. OKAY.

PROVE TO THE. TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DISTRICT COUNCIL.

NOT I'M NOT PUTTING THAT ON.

SO WE'RE GETTING SILENT FOR A SECOND.

I GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND.

SECOND IS POINTER ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTFULNESS ON THIS, GUYS.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE GOT TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

AND I THINK YOU HAVE MS. KELLY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

APPRECIATE IT. WE'LL BE CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT YOU FIND AS YOU THINK THAT PEER AT THE HOUSE IS COMING DOWN.

IT'S FALLING DOWN ANYWAY, SO YOU MIGHT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ASSESS THAT, LIFT THE CAP OFF AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

YEAH. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. MOVE INTO STAFF CERTIFICATES AS ANY BOARD BUSINESS TO BE DISCUSSED, I'D LIKE TO DO A JUST A SUPER QUICK

[6. BOARD BUSINESS]

AND THE THE GOOD PARTS OF IT WERE THAT THEY HAVE AGREED TO NOT EXPAND THE FOOTPRINT INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THEY WILL NOT PUT A SECOND GATE OFF OF ESCAMBIA.

THEY WILL NOT BRING THE CRUISE SHIPS IN.

AND WE GOT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT MAPPING CORRECTLY UPDATED IN THE IN THE MASTER PLAN AND ALSO THE NUMBER OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES BECAUSE THEY HAD

[00:55:07]

SO THE NEXT STEP FOR THAT IS FOR THEM TO JUST DO A FEW LITTLE HOUSEKEEPING CLEANUPS AND THEN IT GOES TO THE CITY COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL THERE.

AND SO WE WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF APPROVAL OF THE MASTER PLAN.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT THAT SHE'S A LOT OF WORK THERE.

I WAS VERY SURPRISED TO SEE MIKE'S CALLING TODAY ABOUT THE FINANCES.

YEAH, YOU KNOW, WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR OUTSTANDING DEBT OF A FAILING PORT AUTHORITY, RIGHT.

THAT GOES TO THE COUNTY AND THAT GOES STATE.

STATE. NOW DON'T GO TO TOWN.

JUST STAYS WHERE IT IS BECAUSE THE STATE.

TAKE IT OVER THEN. OH, GEE, WHAT COULD GO WRONG THERE? IF YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD ANY KIND OF HOME RULE, YOU WOULD ON THAT ONE.

SOUNDS LIKE REEDY CREEK ALL OVER AGAIN.

THANK YOU, TAMMI.

I MIGHT POINT OUT THAT ON ON MONDAY WE HAD A COMMUNITY FORUM ON WALKING AND BIKING SAFETY.

THAT CITY MANAGER, MR GEORGE ALLOWED US TO PUT TOGETHER.

WE HAD 78 PEOPLE THERE.

WOW. 63 VISITORS, SIX TASK FORCE MEMBERS AND NINE STAFF.

ROBERT COMPANION DID A LAYOUT OF THE UPCOMING TRAIL PROCESS, WHICH IS MOVING ALONG VERY NICELY.

WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY WAS GRAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE SPEED OF OUR TRAFFIC, THE VOLUME AND THE SIZE OF THE VEHICLES, AND THEY WANT US TO WORK WITH FDOT TO CALM IT DOWN.

FDOT HAS PLANS OUTSTANDING FOR REDOING ATLANTIC AVENUE FROM EIGHTH TO THE BEACH AND FOR DOING REPAVING SOUTH.

FLETCHER WE HOPE TO HAVE THAT COME TO THE TABLE ON MAY THE 23RD, WHERE COMMUNITY CAN ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE PROJECTS, AND WE HOPE THAT IT WILL ULTIMATELY RESULT IN THE CITY COMMISSION BEING ABLE TO SAY TO FDOT, YES, DO THAT, BUT SOONER.

I'LL TELL YOU WHAT ONE THING THEY SHOULD DO ON THAT THING FOR BIKING, THEY SHOULD MOVE THE THE ROAD OVER AND HAVE A SIX FOOT BIKE LANE WALKING ON JUST ONE SIDE INSTEAD OF THREE FOOT ON BOTH SIDES.

AND THAT'S VERY ARGUABLE JUST FROM EXPERIENCE, I'LL TELL YOU THAT.

BUT JUST THE POINT IS, WE'VE GOT SOME TRACTION HERE AROUND WALKING AND BIKING.

AND I'M REALLY THE CITY STAFF'S BEEN JUST GREAT AND WE'VE REALLY MADE PROGRESS IN THE LAST BASICALLY TWO MONTHS.

IT'S DANGEROUS STUFF.

THAT'S ALL I GOT. SAL WILL GO RIGHT TO THE STAFF REPORT.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CERTIFICATES OF APPROVAL?

[7. STAFF REPORT]

OH, MY GOSH.

HEY, YOU HAVE SOME WIND DAMAGE.

I'LL FIND IT. NO KIDDING.

KEEP THESE GUYS IN BUSINESS.

YOU TURN ONE DOWN.

SO A WINDOW REPLACEMENT ON NORTH.

THANK YOU FOR THAT, SAL.

ARE THEY GOING TO COME SEE US? OF COURSE. THEY'VE.

WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THAT OPTION TO COME TO THE BOARD, BUT THEY HAVEN'T APPOINTED ME TO CALL THE WINDOW SPECIAL.

THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING. BECAUSE WHEN I SAW THAT THROUGH, I THOUGHT, WHAT? AND THEN I SAW THE DENIED ON IT.

YEAH, YOU DON'T DO THAT VERY OFTEN.

THOSE ARE VINYL CAUGHT OUR ATTENTION.

AND THAT WAS THE ISSUE THAT THAT COMPANY ONLY DOES A VINYL WINDOW.

SO THAT'S NOT THE ONLY ISSUE BUT.

WELL YEAH YEAH I TOLD THEM IF IF THEY WE COULD CONSIDER THAT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS BUT IT HAD TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD AND WE GOT A JOINT MEETING COMING UP. SAL YES.

SO JUST TO REMIND EVERYBODY, NEXT WEEK, ON WEDNESDAY, 5:00 IN THIS ROOM, WE HAVE A JOINT MEETING WITH THE PLANNING ADVISORY COUNCIL PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD.

SO IF ALL OF YOU CAN MAKE IT, IT'D BE GREAT TO HAVE AS MANY OF YOU HERE AS POSSIBLE.

WE'LL BE DISCUSSING A COUPLE OF THINGS, INCLUDING THE PAB'S TASKS THAT THEY WERE GIVEN FOR THE YEAR BY THE COMMISSION.

WE'LL ALSO BE DISCUSSING A HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLAN FOR THE CITY AND WHETHER BOTH GROUPS FEEL LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD DO AND HOW WE SHOULD GO ABOUT THAT.

I CAN I GET TAPED? CAN I WATCH IT LATER? IT WILL BE JUST LIKE THIS MEETING WHERE IT'S RECORDED.

GOOD, BECAUSE I WANT TO REVIEW THAT WHEN I GET BACK.

YEAH. THANK YOU. SO FOR ALL THE.

YEAH. OH YEAH.

WE, WE YEAH.

THEY GET INTERNET IN FRANCE. YOU CAN WATCH IT THERE.

NO. YEAH, THEY DO.

UM, OKAY, SO YOU GOT SOME WORKSHOPS FOR US TO THINK ABOUT.

YES. SO WE HAVE THE NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS HAVING A WORKSHOP, A THREE PART WORKSHOP CALLED DISCOVERING OUR ANCESTORS AND PRESERVING HISTORIC GRAVESITES.

IT'S A THREE PART SERIES.

THEY'VE ALREADY HAD THE FIRST PART OF IT, BUT YOU CAN GO BACK AND WATCH THAT.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

WHAT ELSE? WE'VE GOT THE WINDOW WORKSHOP, WHICH IS SET FOR MAY IN HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH.

[01:00:01]

IT'S $10.

WE WILL ACTUALLY DO THE MORNING SESSION WILL BE AN EDUCATIONAL SESSION ON HISTORIC WOOD WINDOWS, HOW TO MAINTAIN THEM, WHY THEY'RE IMPORTANT.

AND THE SECOND HALF OF THE AFTERNOON WILL BE A HANDS ON WORKSHOP LOOKING AT STRIPPING WINDOWS, REGLAZING WINDOWS.

WHERE WILL THEY WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE? RIGHT HERE IN CHAMBERS THIS YEAR.

IT'S NOT ON SITE. WE DIDN'T HAVE A SITE THAT WORKED.

MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A HISTORIC MASONRY WORKSHOP.

WE DEFINITELY COULD.

WE DEFINITELY COULD.

WITH THAT, THERE'S A BROWN BAG LUNCH PROVIDED, SO IT SHOULD BE A NICE AFTERNOON IF ANYBODY WANTS TO COME OUT.

DO YOU NEED SOME OLD WINDOWS TO WORK ON? THEY'RE GOING TO BRING THEIR OWN.

YEAH. KOSKI'S GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF NINE OVER ONES OR SOMETHING.

YEAH. OKAY.

GOSH, I NEVER ONE REMEMBER.

IT'S WEIRD THAT HOUSE HAD.

IT'S CRAFTSMAN. IT'S SO.

SO I DO HAVE. I JUST PULLED UP THE PICTURE THEY WERE REFERRING TO.

AND THE PICTURE IS UNDATED.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE PICTURE IS FROM.

UM, BUT HERE'S THE BLACK AND WHITE.

IF I CAN GET IT TO COME UP. THERE WE GO.

THAT LOOKS LIKE THE BRICK IS THERE.

SO THE BRICKS BEEN THERE A VERY LONG TIME AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE PLANTER LIKE IT WAS ADDED ON TOP.

OR IS THAT JUST. I THINK THAT'S FALLING OVER.

YEAH. BECAUSE THE WHAT IS IT THEY I DON'T.

THAT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THERE'S A PLANTER BOX ABOVE, THERE'S A, THERE'S A LINE THERE.

YEAH I AGREE. SO IT'S JUST THE CORBELED BRICK THAT WAS ADDED.

I THINK SO, YEAH. WELL THEN I'D BE OKAY WITH TAKING THAT OFF.

AND I BET IF YOU GO AROUND THE SIDE, I BET THERE'S NOTHING THERE.

SO IF THEY DID THAT TO ME, IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN ADDED.

YEAH. BUT THEY PROBABLY SEE IT THAT LAST FIVE COURSES.

SO THE LAST FIVE COURSES JUT OUT PROGRESSIVELY AS THEY COME OUT.

YEAH. NOT IN MY OPINION.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN IN THIS IS THAT YOU SEND US THAT PICTURE THAT DIFFERENCE.

YEAH. YEAH.

AGAIN IT'S UNDATED SO WE DON'T KNOW WHEN IT IS, BUT JUDGING BY THE TREES BEING SMALLER THAN THEY WERE IN THE 1985 PICTURE, IT'S A LOT EARLIER.

OH THERE IS A TRUCK IN IT.

YEAH. OVER ON THE RIGHT.

THERE'S A TRUCK THERE.

THAT'S AN OLD TRUCK. YEAH.

SO WHO CONTACTED.

DID SOMEBODY TALK TO TONY? DO WE NEED TO TALK TO TONY? I BELIEVE THIS IS WHERE I BELIEVE THEY GOT THIS PICTURE FROM HIM.

OKAY. HE SAID THEY TALKED TO THE STILLWELL FAMILY, WHICH WOULD BE JOHN STILLWELL.

I KNOW I COULD CALL TONY.

WELL, HE PROBABLY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE PICTURES.

SO WOULD DOROTHEA, BUT I DON'T KNOW HER HEALTH CONDITION, SO I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD KNOW.

OKAY. WHAT ELSE DO WE GOT? LIGHTING. LIGHTING? YES. SO YOU GUYS HAVE ALREADY SEEN AND APPROVED A BASIC LIGHTING STYLE FOR DOWNTOWN, BUT IT DID CHANGE SLIGHTLY AND I JUST WANTED YOU GUYS TO SEE IT.

IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY CHOSEN.

WAS IT A COST DECISION? NO, IT'S JUST THE COMPANY THAT WAS AWARDED THE CONTRACTS TO LOOK INTO DOWNTOWN LIGHTING.

THIS IS A COMPANY THAT THEY USE AND I APOLOGIZE, BUT THE GRAPHICS ARE NOT COMING UP ON THIS SHEET.

THAT'S WEIRD.

THEY'RE IN THE OTHER.

SO ARE THEY.

SO THIS IS WHAT THE STYLE WOULD LOOK LIKE.

SO IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE WE HAD SEEN BEFORE, JUST A DIFFERENT MANUFACTURER.

AND WE HAVE ALL THE CORRECT CRI RATINGS AND THE KELVINS AND ALL THE LIGHTING NUMERICS AND THEY'RE GOING TO WORK ON THAT. THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF THEIR LIGHTING PLAN.

SO WHAT'S THE TIMING ON THIS? HAD I DON'T KNOW, HOW ARE THEY PAYING FOR IT THAT I DON'T KNOW.

HOW ARE THEY PAYING FOR IT? WITH TAXPAYER DOLLAR.

AND THAT'S WHEN THEY'LL DO THE SIDEWALKS AT THE SAME TIME.

SO IT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? HEX AND THE TREE.

YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

AND CABLING AND YEAH.

ELECTRICITY. ANYTHING ELSE.

SO DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE LIGHTS? I MEAN, THEY'RE THEY WORK FOR ME.

YEAH. LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY LIKE THE POLES TO ALONG WITH THE I JUST HAVE TEN YEARS FROM NOW THEN THAT MANUFACTURER IS OUT OF BUSINESS AND THEN THE ONES THAT WE CAN GET THEM CLOSE AGAIN.

DON'T GET ME STARTED. WHERE'S MY FLYING CAR? HAS THERE BEEN DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER THIS WOULD BE A BUY OR A.

YEAH, WE WERE RENTING THIS ONE.

SO RIGHT NOW THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE ENGINEERING OF IT.

THIS PART OF THE PROJECT, THEY'RE REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO DO A NEW SYSTEM, WHAT SYSTEM IS THERE, HOW TO UNIFY THAT SYSTEM, ALL THAT TYPE OF STUFF.

[01:05:09]

YEAH. OKAY.

BUT TO MOVE FURTHER IN THEIR THEIR DRAWINGS, THEY NEEDED TO KNOW THAT WE WERE OKAY WITH WITH THIS LIGHT FIXTURE WHICH IS LIKE I SAID IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY.

HOW FAR WOULD THIS LIGHTING GO RIGHT NOW THE THE LIGHTING IS UP TO FOURTH STREET AND ALL THE WAY DOWN CENTER. WOULD THAT BE THE SAME? SO THIS WOULD REPLACE ALL OF THE LIGHTING THAT WE CURRENTLY OWN.

SO THE CENTER STREET LIGHTS AND THE 1990S ACORN LIGHTS THROUGHOUT DOWNTOWN.

OKAY. SO ANY ANY DISCUSSION OF 5TH STREET TO 8TH STREET IS NOT ON THE TABLE? NOT CURRENTLY. THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT THAT AS PART OF THIS.

OKAY. OKAY.

ANYTHING ELSE? SO FOR PAB MEETING OUR JOINT MEETING, I HAD CAME ACROSS TWO REALLY WELL DONE ARTICLES IN THIS MONTH'S TRADITIONAL BUILDING AND IT'S ABOUT ONE WAS REDEVELOPING CHARLESTON AND ONE WAS ON HARTFORD.

HARTFORD AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODES AND A LOT OF HISTORIC TIE INS.

IF I SEND THAT TO YOU, CAN YOU DISTRIBUTE IT TO THE BOARD? OKAY. DEFINITELY. OKAY.

AND THEN AND I CAN JUST SEND IT TO PAB MEMBERS.

RIGHT. NO.

OH, I CAN'T DO THAT EITHER. NO, SEND IT TO ME.

I'LL SEND IT TO YOU. OKAY. WE'LL DISTRIBUTE IT TO THEM.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SUNSHINE THING.

YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLICLY NOTICED MEETING THAT WE'LL BE AT WITH THEM.

OKAY, IF YOU WANT.

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT AT THAT MEETING, OR YOU JUST WANT THEM TO HAVE IT BECAUSE IT KIND OF TIES US BOTH TOGETHER WITH THE NUTS AND THE BOLTS, PLUS THE HISTORIC INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE IMPORTANCE OF IT.

AND WHAT I CAN DO IS I CAN PUT IT ON THAT AGENDA AS BACKUP MATERIAL SO THAT IT'S THERE FOR EVERYBODY.

PERFECT. DO WE KNOW WHAT THE PAB IS? IS SEEING IT AS ITS PRIORITY THESE DAYS? SO THEY IN THEIR JOINT MEETING WITH THE COMMISSION, THEY DO HAVE FIVE GOALS AND THAT'S THE FIRST THING WE'LL TALK ABOUT WITH THEM.

WHAT ARE THEY? DO WE FIND OUT? I CAN PULL IT UP. SEND IT TO US.

YEAH, THEY'RE ON THE AGENDA.

I CAN PULL THAT UP IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.

AND WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, SAL, IF THERE WERE AN EFFORT UNDERTAKEN TO DO A PRESERVATION PLAN, WOULD THAT BE A COMBINATION OF THIS BOARD AND THE PUB OR THE PUB ALONE OR THIS BOARD ALONE? OR HOW WOULD THAT WORK? THAT'S FOR YOU GUYS TO DISCUSS, I THINK BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH OVERLAP.

IT WOULD IT SHOULD BE A JOINT EFFORT.

AND WHERE DO THE OTHER PRESERVATION, HISTORICAL APPRECIATION, PEOPLE THAT WE'VE BEEN MEETING WITH THESE STAKEHOLDERS, WHERE DO THEY FALL INTO THAT PROCESS? THEY WOULD DEFINITELY BE. SO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THERE'D BE A LOT OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT IN MOVING FORWARD WITH A PRESERVATION PLAN.

SO THEY DEFINITELY WOULD BE PARTNERS IN DOING A LOT OF THAT OUTREACH AND THAT PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT.

OKAY. AND SO HERE ARE THE THE ACTION ITEMS THAT WERE SET BY THE COMMISSION AND THE PAB.

THE FIRST ONE WAS TO LOOK AT FEES.

THE SECOND ONE WAS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS.

THIRD ONE WAS COMMERCIAL REDEVELOPMENT, PARKING STANDARDS AND COMMERCIAL PODS.

THE FOURTH ONE WAS LDC CODE CLARIFICATIONS AND CORRECTING INCONSISTENCIES.

THE FIFTH WAS AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THE SIXTH WAS ANNUAL JOINT MEETINGS WITH THE COMMISSION.

THIS IS FOR THEM. YEAH, WITH THE COMMISSION.

AND SO WE'LL DISCUSS KIND OF WHERE, WHERE THEIR WORK OVERLAPS WITH US.

YEAH, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT THIS BOARD WOULD BE MUCH MORE INVOLVED IN THAN OTHERS AND SOME THAT REALLY DON'T GET COMMERCIAL REDEVELOPMENT. AND THEN THE PRESERVATION PLAN.

AND IN THERE YOU HAVE THE STATE HAS A COMPREHENSIVE PRESERVATION PLAN.

EVERY STATE HAS ITS OWN PRESERVATION PLAN, BUT NOT EVERY CITY HAS ADOPTED ITS OWN PRESERVATION PLAN.

SO IN HERE YOU'VE GOT THE FLORIDA PRESERVATION PLAN.

AND I ALSO INCLUDED LINKS TO THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR PRESERVATION COMMISSIONS HAS A LOT OF RESOURCES.

BUT I ALSO SENT YOU SAINT AUGUSTINE AND CHARLESTON'S PRESERVATION PLAN.

SO YOU CAN SEE KIND OF WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, WHAT THEIR WHAT PARTS THEY HAVE, WHAT THEY'RE ABOUT AND HOW THEIR PROCESS WENT TO CREATE THEM.

AND IF WE IF WE WERE TO GO BACK IN TIME BEFORE THE HCC WAS CREATED, BEFORE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WAS CREATED, WOULD WE START WITH THAT PLAN? AND THEN ALL THIS WOULD BE SUPPORTING THAT PLAN, CORRECT.

[01:10:03]

THIS IS JUST AN OVERARCHING, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION FOR THE CITY.

DO ANY OF THOSE EXAMPLES HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT THE ECONOMIC CONTRIBUTION OF PRESERVATION? I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU HAD ANY TOURISM DOLLARS WHEN YOU DID TOURISM.

YOU KNOW, THE NUMBERS THAT I HAD GOTTEN WHEN I WAS WORKING WITH MAIN STREET WAS THAT WE'RE AT A VISITATION LEVEL ONLY.

AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE WE COME TO FERNANDINA FOR THE BEACH AND WE COME BACK TO FERNANDINA FOR DOWNTOWN.

SO I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED VERY STRONGLY THAT THE CITY'S ECONOMY IS HEALTHY BECAUSE WE HAVE A DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.

AND IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING TO HELP PROTECT IT AND KEEP IT HEALTHY AND KEEP IT MAINTAINED, THEN WE'RE JUST SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE FOOT. SO I PROBABLY CAN GET MORE DATA THAN THAN THAT.

BUT YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE OUT THERE AS FAR AS THIS PRESERVATION PLAN GOES.

I AGREE AND I THINK WE NEED TO EDUCATE THE NEW COMMISSION ON THAT.

JUST EDUCATE THEM. WELL, I MEAN, JUST NEED TO PUT IT OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, IF IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE AND WE HAVE SOME THINGS IN BLACK AND WHITE, WE CAN'T JUST SIT HERE AND ROLL OUR EYES.

OH, I AGREE. WE CAN.

BUT IT'S IT'S MORE FUN NOW BECAUSE I'VE I'M SITTING HERE WHERE IT SAYS, NO SIGN, NO GRUMPING, NO EYE ROLLING AND NO GLASSES IN YOUR MOUTH. THIS IS WHY NO GLASSES ON THIS MAN'S SEAT.

WELL, I SEE AN ON AND OFF THING AND IT'S RIGHT NOW ON AND OFF.

MY SIGN SAYS WHATEVER IS WAITING PATIENTLY BECAUSE HE WAS AGAINST THE COMMISSIONER HAS WAITED PATIENTLY BECAUSE HE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT.

[8. PUBLIC COMMENT]

NOW WE'RE GOING TO ROLL OUR EYES AND HOLD OUR GLASSES IN OUR MOUTH.

GLASSES. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. IF YOU MIGHT IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD, WE APPRECIATE IT.

CHIP ROSS TO TEN NORTH THIRD STREET.

OH, THAT LITTLE PIECE OF PAPER WAS A GIFT FROM MY WIFE TO REMIND ME OF THE THINGS NOT TO DO.

I GET IT. AND SMART LADY, SHE'S A SHE'S A VERY SMART LADY.

EXTREMELY SMART LADY.

SO THERE'S A LITTLE.

WERE 13,000 SOULS THAT LIVE HERE, OR AT LEAST THERE ARE 6500 RESIDENCES, BUT THERE'S 400,000 PEOPLE THAT COME ACROSS THE BRIDGE EVERY YEAR TO LIVE WITH THEIR VISIT. PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER 750,000 THAT COME ACROSS TO SPEND AT LEAST A NIGHT HERE.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER 1.5 MILLION AND GROWING THAT COME ACROSS THE BRIDGE.

BUT THE REASON IS PIGGYBACKING OFF WHAT MRS FILKOFF HAS SAID, IS THEY COME HERE NOT ONLY FOR THE BEACH, BUT FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THEY COME HERE.

THEY DON'T COME HERE TO PARK.

THEY COME HERE TO SEE THINGS.

THEY COME HERE TO DO THINGS.

THEY COME HERE TO BE PART OF THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND THERE'S A PRESSURE.

SO I GUESS WHAT I'M COMING HERE TO SAY IS WE NEED AS A COMMUNITY TO ADDRESS HOW PEOPLE GET HERE.

AND ONCE THEY'RE HERE WHERE THEY PARK OR DON'T PARK AND THERE'S A GROUP, THERE'S A PRESSURE TO TAKE EVERY SQUARE INCH OF EVERYTHING AND TURN IT INTO PARKING.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT MAKES ANY UNIQUE PLACE.

I DON'T THINK IT MAKES A PLACE OF CHARACTER.

I DON'T THINK IT'S WHAT PEOPLE COME HERE FOR.

SO I WOULD WONDER, AT LEAST WITH THE PAB OR WHATEVER, HOWEVER YOU HOW WE SHOULD ADDRESS THAT AS A COMMUNITY, BECAUSE CLEARLY PEOPLE NEED AN ACCESS TO GET HERE.

BUT CLEARLY TAKING EVERY SQUARE INCH AND TURNING IT INTO A PARKING LOT.

I MEAN, I GREW UP IN THE 60S AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF YOU HERE TOO, AND THERE'S JONI MITCHELL AND PARADISE PAVED PARADISE AND TURNED INTO A PARKING LOT.

SO I WAS TRYING TO GET THE CONVERSATION GOING IN THE COMMUNITY AS TO WHAT DO WE DO.

AND I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS.

I HAVE SOME THOUGHTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M DOING WITH MISS FINKELSTEIN IS WE'RE DOING A PARKING SURVEY TO.

EXACTLY. WE'VE HAD SO MANY PARKING SURVEYS.

NO, NO, NO PARKING SURVEY.

A LITTLE DIFFERENT. WE DON'T HAVE A PARKING SURVEY THAT GOES STREET BY STREET AND SAYS HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE ON EACH STREET? THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

SO YOU HAVE A BASELINE OF WHAT'S HERE RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S NOT ANY CITY STAFF.

IT'S SOMETHING ELSE.

AND THEN BUT YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT PARKING AND WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT? AND IT'S MORE ABOUT WHAT WAS THE SECOND GOAL UP THERE FROM THE.

[01:15:09]

I MEAN, THIS IS ABOUT MOBILITY AND HOW DO WE KEEP A HISTORIC DOWNTOWN PRESERVED? SO IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE JAMMING IN EVERYWHERE WITH CARS, BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE TO YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE OFF LOCATION PARKING AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SHUTTLE.

AND YOU HAVE YOU HAVE A HUGE PARKING LOT ACROSS FROM CENTRAL PARK, THE SCHOOL, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

BUT WE NEED ADVOCATES IN THE COMMUNITY WHO SAY THAT BECAUSE, WELL, MCJUNKIN HAD A COMMUTER BUS.

YULEE FOR A WHILE.

OKAY. NO KIDDING.

SO I'M NOT I'M JUST I WOULD JUST I GUESS THERE WAS A COMMUTER TRAIN FOR A WHILE, TOO.

WELL, I WAS JUST HOPE IS THAT THIS BOARD, AT LEAST MAYBE WITH THE PAB, BRING THAT ISSUE UP AND AND START.

HOW DO WE HAVE A QUESTION? SURE. WHAT IS THE POSSIBILITY OF USING A RAILROAD TRACK FOR TRANSPORTATION FROM YULEE AND ON A ON THE LITTLE PASSENGER TRAIN, IF YOU WILL, TO COME IN AND DROP PEOPLE OFF AND TAKE PEOPLE OUT? BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT THAT SOME OF US LOOKED AT THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

AND FIRST OF ALL, CSX WAS NOT VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT IT.

AND IT'S DIFFICULT.

I MEAN, IT'S EXPENSIVE.

IT'S EXPENSIVE.

I MEAN, IT'S ALL ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS IS SAID MANY TIMES.

NO, BUT I MEAN, YOU CHARGE FOR IT AND BUT IT GETS NOWHERE NEAR THE COST.

I THINK THE OTHER ISSUE WITH THAT, WAS IT CONFLICTED SO MUCH WITH THE SCHEDULING OF THE FREIGHT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BE CONCURRENTLY RUN.

THEY HAVE TO JUST FOR SAFETY, THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY.

SO YOUR SCHEDULE COULD BE LIKE, OKAY, PASSENGERS EVERY HOUR, BUT THEN YOU CAN'T HAVE KNOW THOSE TRAINS.

THEY SIT THERE, THEY BACK UP, THEY GO.

RIGHT. I MEAN, THERE USED TO BE BACK IN THE DAY, A TROLLEY THAT WENT FROM FROM THE RIVER TO THE BEACH ON BEACH STREET WENT THROUGH THE GREENWAY. YEAH.

SO I REALLY THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A TRANSPORTATION AROUND THE CLOCK FROM DOWNTOWN TO MAIN BEACH, STOPPING OFF IN THE MIDDLE AT CENTRAL PARK OR WHATEVER FOR PARKING.

AND AND THAT'S HOW PEOPLE COME AND GO BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT AN ISSUE AT MAIN BEACH AS WELL.

NO PARKING. WHERE WOULD THEY PARK? WHERE WOULD THE FIRST DEPOSITORY BE? CENTRAL PARK, THE MAIN ONE IS PARK AT CENTRAL PARK AND THEN TAKE YOUR SHUTTLE OR WALK TO DOWNTOWN.

THE MAIN TRAIL THAT WE'RE GOING TO BUILD FROM CENTRAL PARK TO DOWNTOWN.

I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE SO EASY TO DO.

AND AGAIN, HOW MANY SPOTS AT CENTRAL PARK? OH, HUNDREDS. YEAH.

ACROSS THE STREET. HE'S TALKING ABOUT USING, LIKE, THE SCHOOL BOARD.

SCHOOL BOARD? OH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE STREET SIDE.

THE STREET SIDE TO THE BEACH.

RIGHT BY THE BASEBALL PARK.

THE BASEBALL FIELDS. FOUR BLOCKS OF PARKING AND.

YEAH, BUT A SATURDAY.

SUNDAY. THAT'S ALL FULL.

YEAH. I LIVE THERE.

THAT'S BASEBALL THING.

ALL THAT. AND THAT'S WHEN THE BOARD OF ED IS EMPTY, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT WE NEED TO CHANGE THE CONVERSATION.

OR AT LEAST HAVE A CONVERSATION ON BECAUSE ANYTIME THIS COMES UP BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION, A FEW VERY VOCAL PEOPLE SHOW UP AND THEY JUST TALK ABOUT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A WORKSHOP, I UNDERSTAND, ON ON PARKING.

YEAH, NEXT MONTH.

SEE HOW THAT GOES? IT'D BE NICE IF SOME PEOPLE SHOWED UP WHO WERE POSITIVE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

OKAY. YEAH. WELL, WHAT WE BECAUSE THIS ISSUE, AS I STATED THE OTHER NIGHT, IT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE GOD WAS A CHILD AND IT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE MR. FORD MADE CARS AND SOME OF THOSE SAME PEOPLE WERE STILL SAYING THEN, NO CHARGE FOR PARKING.

NO, NO, NOT IN MY BACKYARD.

WELL, THERE IS NO AS WAS POINTED OUT BY MR. HOPKINS OF THE CRA, THERE IS NO FREE PARKING.

RIGHT. I MEAN, JUST THE DUMB SCHMUCKS THAT KEEP PAYING.

THAT'S RIGHT. BUT BUT I THINK THAT SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, WE HAVE TO, REGARDLESS OF WHAT KIND OF WORK WE CAN GO OUT AND DO, WHICH I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AND A QUESTION TO ASSIST OUR HISTORIC COMMUNITY, ALL OF IT, NOT JUST THE BUSINESS AREAS, BUT THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE BEING IMPACTED IN SOME WAYS, TOO, BY PARKING UP THEIR STREETS.

NOW, SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, THE COMMISSION HAS GOT TO STOP LISTENING TO THOSE VOCAL FIVE PEOPLE

[01:20:04]

THEY MAY AS WELL JUST SEND THE.

SET PLAYER HERE.

HOW OLD AM I? CASSETTE.

THE CASSETTE PLAYER HERE.

HE PLAY IT. SHE DIDN'T SAY WHY.

SHE SAID SAY THAT WAS A GOOD MOM.

CRANK UP THAT VICTROLA.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, HOW.

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? WHAT, IN YOUR ESTIMATION, HAVING SERVED A COUPLE OF MONTHS WITH THIS REST OF THIS COMMISSION, IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET THEM TO OPEN THEIR HEARING ON THIS? WHAT WOULD IT TAKE? WHAT MY MOTHER TOLD ME, WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY.

NO. WHAT IS THE KEY BUTTON FOR SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM. SAL WILL LET US KNOW.

REMIND US OF THE WORKSHOP.

THE CITY COMMISSION IS DOING ON PARKING, AND WE NEED TO SHOW UP AND TALK ABOUT DEALING WITH IT IN A COMPREHENSIVE KIND OF WAY AND NOT IN A PIECEMEAL KIND OF WAY. AND HOW THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE SEES PARKING NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED HOLISTICALLY.

MY FAVORITE WORD.

WELL, BUT TO BE BROAD.

BUT TO BE HONEST, I MEAN, I LIVE AT 210 NORTH THIRD STREET, AND THAT'S TWO BLOCKS NORTH.

AND I CAN WALK TO CITY HALL AND I DON'T WALK VERY FAST BECAUSE OF CERTAIN ISSUES IN LESS THAN TEN MINUTES.

AND I CAN TELL YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE PARK ON THREE, FIVE DAYS A YEAR.

AND I CAN TELL YOU WHICH THEY ARE GOING TO BE.

IT'LL BE PARKED. BUT THE REST OF THEM, IT'S JUST ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE CARS.

AND YOU COULD PROBABLY PUT 20 OR 30, 20 CARS ON THAT STREET.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.

IF YOU WANT TO KILL THE DOWNTOWN, PUT A PARKING GARAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HISTORIC.

THAT'S THE DUMBEST THING. WELL, BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUT YOU SEE, NOBODY GETS UP.

NOBODY AT THE LAST.

I BROUGHT THAT VERY ISSUE UP AT THE AT THE WORKSHOP.

AND THEN THERE WAS ENTHUSIASM FROM SOME ABOUT PUTTING IN A PARKING GARAGE.

AND I POINTED OUT THAT FOR PARKING GARAGES, YOU NEED AT LEAST 240FT.

IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT? PLUS, I MEAN, THAT'S A MINIMUM.

AND THEN YOU GOT TO GO TO THE WIDTH.

YEAH. AND YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO GO TO THREE STORIES AND PARKS AND.

YEAH, LIKE PARKING GARAGES ANYWHERE FROM 20, PROBABLY 30 TO 50,000 OF PARKING A SPOT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

HOW MUCH. 30 TO 50 PER SPOT.

AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE LAND CHARGE FOR PARKING ANYWHERE.

RIGHT. AND UNTIL PEOPLE FEEL PERSONAL PAIN, IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

SO THE FACT THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY TELLING FOLKS THAT THERE'S A THREE HOUR LIMIT FOR PARKING, BUT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO PARK ALL DAY WITHOUT TICKETING THEM, I ADDRESSED WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THE THREE HOUR ISSUE AND THEY BASICALLY SAID THIS.

NUMBER ONE, WE DON'T HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO ENFORCE IT.

NUMBER TWO, A PIECE OF CHALK, JUST YOU CAN'T KNOW THE METER MAID GOES WITH THE CHALK.

TAMMI TAMMI. COMMISSIONER TAMMI.

THE PIECE OF CHALK WENT OUT WITH THE SUPREME COURT.

I'M BEING SERIOUS.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE.

SO THEN YOU NEED A LICENSE PLATE READER.

AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO.

WHAT THEY PROPOSED WAS TWO HOUR PARKING.

AND THAT'S. AND THEY AND IF THERE WAS THE WILL HERE TO ENFORCE IT, THEY'D ENFORCE IT.

LICENSE PLATE READER IS ABOUT 20,000 BUCKS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE PRETTY SMART.

THEY GAME ALL THAT STUFF.

I MEAN, IF YOU COME IN AT 1:00, THREE HOURS, BUT YOU CAN ONLY GAME ONCE A MONTH, YOUR STAFF'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PULL THAT OFF.

WELL, NO, I MEAN, BUT I'M TELLING YOU, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE IF YOU WANT ALL THE STAFF TO BE OUTSIDE OF ALL THE PREMIER PARKING SPACES, YOU CHARGE FOR PARKING FOR THE PREMIER PARKING SPACES, AND OUTSIDE OF THAT, IT'S FREE.

AND THAT WOULD END EVERY STAFF WHO'S WHO'S WHO'S WORKING HERE.

THEY WOULD BE IN THE FREE PARKING.

AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE USED TO PAYING EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY WOULD BE PULLING IN AND SAYING, WOW, LOOK, I CAN GET A PLACE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE RESTAURANT.

I WANT TO COULD AFFORD TO PAY THAT ARE COMING HERE THAT THAT REALLY DON'T WANT TO WALK THAT FAR ANYWAY.

SO THEY PAY. THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

THEY ARE SHOCKED. WELL, NOW I WILL TELL YOU, YOU HAVE ONE VOTE NOT GO FIND TWO MORE.

THERE'S ONLY ONE. YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING THAT CAME UP AT OPA WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT BIG VACANT PARKING LOT THAT THEY HAVE.

AND LORD KNOWS THEY NEED SOME MONEY.

THEY TALKED ABOUT WORKING WITH THE CITY.

I'M STILL WORKING ON THAT TO CHARGE.

OKAY. BUT I DID. I THOUGHT THAT PARKING LOT BECAUSE OF THE SECURITY AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO OPEN THAT.

THAT WAS THAT WAS BACK IN THE DAY WHEN THEY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S TRUE.

SO THE NEW PORT OPERATOR, TO THEIR CREDIT, IS VERY TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE THE COMMUNITY AND THEY SEEM TO BE DOING A NICE JOB

[01:25:06]

AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

EVERYONE WHO TALKS ABOUT OUR PARKING PROBLEM.

IT'S REALLY A WALKING PROBLEM BECAUSE IF YOU UTILIZE THAT PARKING LOT UP NORTH FRONT STREET, THEY'LL SAY THAT'S TOO FAR TO WALK.

WELL, PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH UP NORTH FRONT STREET IS THERE'S NO SIDEWALK, RIGHT? THERE'S NO NO LIGHTS, NO, YOU KNOW, SO ON AND SO FORTH.

BUT WE JUST NEED AS A COMMUNITY START FOCUSING ON HOW ARE WE GOING TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO GO AWAY AND IT IS EXACERBATING.

IT'S GETTING WORSE AND WORSE BECAUSE THERE'S I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BUILD OUT OF THE COUNTY, IT'S TREMENDOUS.

AND WHERE DO THEY ALL COME? THEY COME HERE. AND IF MY WIFE AND I GO AROUND, WE GOT BETTER.

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE DO THE THINGS WE DO, BUT WE GO AROUND ON SATURDAYS TO THE PARKING LOTS IN THE THE BEACHES.

AND I'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS NOW.

AND MAINE BEACH IS ALWAYS ONE IS SEASIDE PARK IS USUALLY PARKED OUT MAIN BEACH.

BUT YOU GO DOWN TO PETER'S POINT OR BERNIE PARK OR SCOTT ROAD.

SCOTT ROAD IS ABOUT USUALLY ABOUT 30% FULL BECAUSE THE RITZ USES IT FOR PARKING FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES.

BUT THE OTHER TWO ALSO PULL THAT ON ONTO THE BEACHES THERE, WHICH IS ONE OF THE I'M JUST TELLING YOU, PARKING IN THE PARKING LOTS, THEY'RE USUALLY NOT VERY FEW BEACH. VERY FEW PARKING.

SO PETER'S POINTS OUT AND USED NEARLY AS MUCH AS MAINE BEACH.

OH, GOD, NO. MAINE BEACH IS SOLID.

BUT I'LL TELL YOU, THE THE BEACH, THE LITTLE PARKING, YOU KNOW, ON OSELLA NEAR MY HOUSE.

I'LL SEND YOU THE DATA BY 9:00.

I MEAN, ALL THOSE LITTLE THINGS ARE FULL BY 9:00 WHERE ALL THOSE LITTLE, LIKE, OSELLA AND ALACHUA AND THAT THEY'RE ALL FULL.

YEAH. ON THE WEEKENDS, JUST.

NO, I MEAN, THEY'RE FULL ALL SUMMER.

THEY REALLY ARE. AND IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO BE ON CITY BEACHES BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DEALING WITH CARS.

THEY'RE NOT DEALING WITH TRUCKS BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE THOSE ON CITY BEACHES.

YOU CAN DO IT IN THE COUNTY.

SO THE REASON WHY THERE'S PARKING SPACES AVAILABLE, A LOT OF TIMES I'VE PETER'S POINT IS BECAUSE THERE'S 200 TRUCKS ON THE BEACH, RIGHT.

SPILLING THE OIL AND LEAVING THEIR BEER.

THAT'S ANOTHER CONVERSATION I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO.

BUT OKAY. ANYHOW, I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WOULD.

YES. IN A COMPREHENSIVE WAY BECAUSE YOU ALL LIVE HERE AND YOU'RE ALL IMPORTANT PART OF THE COMMUNITY.

BUT GIVE SOME LEADERSHIP AS TO HOW WE MIGHT ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND JUST FYI AND PART OF THE PARKING EXCUSE ME, PART OF THE WALKING AND BIKING SAFETY GROUP IS TALKING ABOUT A REDESIGN OF BEACH STREET BETWEEN EIGHTH AND 14TH, AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE MAXIMIZING PARKING AT CENTRAL PARK ON THE SOUTH SIDE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S A DISORGANIZED FOUR BLOCK.

YEAH. NIGHTMARE.

JUST RANDOM. RANDOM.

YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU. SYLVIE SACHSE.

WE HAVE OUR MEETING ADJOURNED.

WE ARE ADJOURNED.

THAT'S IT? YEAH.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.