[1. CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:06]
ORDER THE MAY 3, 2022 CITY COMMISSION WORK SHOP.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: HERE. >> VICE MAYOR KREGER: HERE.
>> COMMISSIONER BEAN: HERE. >> COMMISSIONER STURGES: HERE.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS: HERE. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU.
HOUSEKEEPING PERSONAL DEVICES. IF YOU WILL TURN THEM OFF OR ON AIRPLANE MODE OR SILENT, THAT WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
COVID-19, I LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY I DON'T HAVE TO SAY THIS, I REALLY DO, BUT TAKE WHATEVER MEASURES YOU FEEL NECESSARY TO PROTECT YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY. AND THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF OTHERS. AND FINALLY, COMMISSIONERS, DECORUM. I HAVE DRESSED ISSUES IN THE PAST. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
LET'S TREAT OUR -- TREAT THIS MEETING WITH PROFESSIONALISM.
[3.1 SHELL COVE/HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY DISCUSSION]
3.1. THIS WORKSHOP IS DIFFERENT IN ITS FORMAT THAN OUR USUAL W WORKSHOP IN THAT WE ARE GOING TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT. ON THE SHELL COVE MATTER.SO THAT YOU ARE YOU ARE AWARE, WHEN YOU COME TO THE LECTERN, CALL YOUR NAME. SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. AND YOU WILL HAVE THREE MINUTES.
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN, GO THROUGH IT AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU HIGHLIGHT THE POINTS THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE.
BECAUSE IF YOU SIMPLY READ IT, YOU WILL PROBABLY RUN OUT OF TIME. SO THAT WILL BE MY ADVICE FOR PUBLIC SPEAKING. SO THE ISSUE IS THE RIGHT-OF-WAY ON HICKORY. AND WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS IN THE PAST. AND AMONG THE COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE DIFFERENCES OF. SO WE WANTED TO HEAR FROM THE RESIDENTS OF SHELL COVE. FIRST, STATE ATTORNEY, YOU HAVE
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: FIRST SPEAKER, RICHARD TIM.
>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, SHELL COVE CIRCLE, FERNANDINA BEACH.
MANY RUMORS OF THE ENCROACHMENT, FENCES, ETC.
LET'S REVIEW THE APPROVED PLANS AND AGREEMENTS AND REVIEW SEVEN ITEMS. TO BEGIN, HISTORICALLY BACK IN MARCH 16, 2016, THE CITY COMMISSION APPROVED THE FINAL PLAT AND SHOWS THERE IS NOT A FENCE ALONG THE INDIGO AND HICKORY GROVE PARKWAYS. THAT IS THE PLAN THAT THE HOMEOWNERS SIGNED UP FOR. NEXT 2018, MAY 18, A MASSIVE TREE PLANTING THAT ALSO DOES NOT -- ALONG HICKORY STREET.
IT IS VERY INTERESTING. THEY ANTICIPATED THERE WOULD BE IMPROVEMENTS INTO THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
ALL IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN THE CITY RIGHT-OF-WAY TO BE MAINTAINED BY SHELL COVE. I ALREADY KNEW THERE WOULD BE IMPROVEMENTS INTO THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
ONE OF THE FIRST HOME BUILT THE INDIGO.
21-14. THAT HAS A PATIO THAT EXTENDS INTO THE DRIVEWAY. IT WAS INSTALLED BY THE BUILDING AND WE HAVE TO ASSUME IT IS APPROVED BY THE CITY.
CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
IT GOES TO CONSTRUCTION. REALLY MESSED THINGS UP.
TALKED TO DALE, KELLY AND OTHERS ABOUT THAT.
REALLY HORRENDOUS. THE HOMEOWNERS CLEANED IT UP PARTICULARLY ALONG HICKORY STREET WHICH LED TO MEETINGS GOING TO -- 2019 TO THE JULY 2, 2019 MEETING IN PARTICULAR.
I CAN'T SAY EXACTLY WHEN ENCROACHMENT BY THE DEVELOPER AND THE CITY, BUT NOT ON THE HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY AND ENCROACHMENT WAS ACCEPTED IF IT WAS NOT BEYOND THE OTHER HOMEOWNERS THAT ALREADY APPROVED THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
IMPROVEMENTS WILL BE REMOVED IF THE CITY NEEDED IT FOR UTI S
[00:05:06]
UTILITIES, WHATEVER. MARCH 16, 2021, WE HAD THE ADOPTION WHICH ALLOW FOR PAVERS IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND ONCE AGAIN IMPROVEMENTS NEED TO BE REMOVED AND NEEDS ACCESS FOR UTILITIES. THE ONLY REAL COMMUNICATION WE HAD SHELL COVE FROM THE CITY WHEN COMMENT WITH PEOPLE LIKE KELLY WERE ON-SITE AND VERY POSITIVE.VERY COMPLIMENTARY. AND CAN WE FIRST AGREE THAT THESE ARE THE PLANTS AND AGREEMENTS.
SO NOW HERE WE ARE TODAY. NO COMMUNICATION -- THIS MIGHT BE VERY IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, IF IT IS A SURPRISE.
BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE TALKING THE OTHER DAY.
NO COMMUNICATION TO CURRENT SHELL COVE RESIDENTS INDICATING THERE WAS A PROBLEM. AND SO --
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: FINISH QUICKLY YOUR STATEMENT.
GO AHEAD. >> I WILL SAY WE DON'T KNOW WHY WE ARE HERE. THERE HAVE BEEN RUMORS, THE ARTICLES. DALE, THANK YOU FOR INFORMING US OF TONIGHT'S MEETING. WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS.
WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHY WE ARE HERE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU, SIR. MISS DENISE MURPHY.
>> DO YOU NEED A KEEP? I ONLY HAVE ONE.
DO YOU WANT PHOTO AS SOON AS. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: SUBMIT THEM TO THE CITY CLERK FOR THE R D RECORD, PLEASE, MA'AM.
>> DENISE MURPHY SHELL COVE CIRCLE.
I NEVER RECEIVED A NOTICE THAT I AM ENCROACHING ON UNIMPROVED HICKORY STREET OR WOULD I EXPECT TO.
AFTER READING THE ARTICLES I MEASURED FROM MY HOUSE TO THE EDGE OF THE BUSHES AND APPROXIMATELY MANY FEET FROM MY HOUSE. I AM DISTRAUGHT THIS MAY BE CONSIDERED ENCROACHMENT. I VIEWED THE CITY COMMISSIONERS MEETING, AND MAYOR KRIEGER SAY THAT RIGHT-OF-WAYS ARE ALL OVER AND HE DIDN'T SEE A PROBLEM AND SAID THAT IF THEY NEED THE RIGHT-OF-WAY, THEY WILL HAVE THE HOMEOWNERS REMOVE ANY OBSTRUCTION. COMMISSIONER MAYOR LEDNOVICH SAID WE NEED TO TREAT EVERYBODY IN THE CITY THE SAME.
WEB IT CAME TO THE VOTE, HE SAID, JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE ARE NOT REQUIRING ANY FENCE OR REMOVAL OF ANYTHING IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. ATTORNEY AGREED AND SAID IF WE NEED REMOVAL, WE WILL GIVE THEM AMPLE NOTICE TO BE CURIOUS.
ALL COMMISSIONERS VOTED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF COMMISSIONER CHAPMAN WHO TOOK OFFENSE TO A FENCE NOT BEING INSTALLED. NO FENCE.
NO ENCROACHMENT CORRECTIONS WERE NECESSARY.
MAJOR SAFETY CONCERN FOR ME IF YOU WERE TO REMOVE MY HEDGE AND PUT IN A SIX-FOOT FENCE. IT WOULD ENCLOSE MY WINDOWS.
I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE OUT. AND ADDITIONALLY I WOULD BE CONCERNED IF THERE WAS A FIRE HOW WOULD I EXIT THE BACK SIDE OF MY HOUSE. ONE POSSIBILITY -- WELL, I WAS TALKING TO KELLY GIBSON. THEY ARE PLANNING TO PUT IN E TREES AND WAX MYRTLES IN THE BACK AND THAT WILL MAKE A LOVELY HEDGE. I WAS AT RECENT MEETING WHEN COMMISSIONERS READ LETTERS THAT THE PATH THE GREENWAY ARE TOO WIDE. THE AREA ON HICKORY STREET IS A VERY WIDE AREA LEADING TO THE GREENWAY.
THE STREET IS -- WAS MUCH NARROWER WITHIN I FIRST MOVED IN BECAUSE THERE WAS -- THE CITY HAD DEBRIS IN THERE OF CONCRETE, CONDUITS, TIRES. I BROUGHT IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE CITY MANAGER. AND COMMON SENSE AND REASON WILL SHOW THAT THE ROAD IS MUCH IMPROVED AND ROW OF WAX MYRTLE FOR A ROAD BED TO COMPLETE A PATHWAY TO THE GREENWAY.
COMMISSIONER ROSS SAID WE SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR COMMISSION.
I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT ASKING FOR PERMISSION BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE I COULD BE ENCROACHING. I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST -- MAY I NOW ASK FOR PERMISSION AND WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL.
IF NOT, HOW DO WE RESOLVE THIS ISSUE FAIRLY TONIGHT.
THANK YOU. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU, MA'AM. LISA TIM.
>> LISA TIM, 126 SHELL COVE CIRCLE.
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>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU, MA'AM.
>> LET'S LOOK AT THE OTHER PASS AND OTHER RUNWAYS IN THE CITY THAT WE WALK THROUGH. TO EXIT ON THE END OF THE SAME PATH NEAR THE LIFT STATIONS, THE HOMES ALONG THE PATH AT L LAKESIDE. ALL THE BEACH EGRESSES.
I FEEL LIKE I AM WALKING THROUGH THEIR BACK YARD.
AND I AM FINE WITH THAT. AS I PASS THE HOME IN THE PHOTO ON NUMBER 1, THE HOMEOWNER CAME OUT TO SIT ON HIS PATIO AND WE HAD A PLEASANT AFTERNOON. COULD YOU SEAT END OF THE PATH WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN PHOTOS THREE THROUGH SIX.
NEAR THE LIFT STATION ON EXIT FLETCHER.
THERE AREN'T ANY FENCES ON THESE PROPERTIES.
YOU WALK THROUGH NUMBER THREE AND NUMBER FOUR A FEW TIMES A WEEK. DOES IT BOTHER ME, NO? AM I TRESPASSING? NO.
WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT THE PATH ISN'T LIKE IT USED TO BE.
AND IF THE ISSUE IS THE DISTANCE FROM THE RIGHT-OF-WAY TO THE HOUSE, HIGH THESE PROPERTIES SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PUT ON THIS PATH. BUT THE DEVELOPMENT IS ALLOWED.
THE PATH IS PLENTY WIDE. AND THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH BERTH TO WALK FIVE ABREAST WITHOUT INTRUDING ON THE HOMEOWNERS. LOOK AT PHOTO NUMBER 7, THE LAST ONE. IT IS THE PATH.
LET A FEW VOICES -- A FEW -- WREAK HAVOC ON THE PROPERTY OWNERS OF MANY? NO, DON'T BE SILLY.
THE CITY MAY WANT TO GO FORWARD BUT TO CHANGE THE RULES ISN'T RIGHT. REMEMBER WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO PUT THE DRIVEWAYS ON THE HICKORY STREET RUNWAY? EVERY NEW MAN ON DECK DOES NOT NEED TO REVISIT THE ISSUE.
LET'S PUT THIS TO REST AND MOVE ON.
I ASK THAT YOU HONOR THE CURRENT UNDERSTANDING THAT THE IMPROVEMENTS INTO THE PATH ARE FINE AS DECIDED IN 2019 AND ESTABLISHED AS FUTURE GUI S GUIDELINES.
THANK YOU. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: ALICE
PARMER. >> SORRY, I HAVE NOTHING TO GIVE YOU. I SENT SOMETHING TO THE CITY AND ASKED THAT IT BE ENTERED INTO THE WORKSHOP RECORD.
>> THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED TO THE COMMISSIONERS AS PART OF THE
AGENDA PACKET. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALICE PARMER. SHELL COVE CIRCLE.
I THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY SPEAK TO YOU THIS EVENING VERY MUCH. AS LISA SAID, SHELL COVE WAS PERMITTED AS A ZERO LOT LINE COMMUNITY.
HOMES AND PROPERTY LINES ARE ABOUT FOUR FEET FROM THE HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY. THERE ARE NO BACKYARDS ALONG HICKORY. THERE IS ONLY THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
SO ANYONE FEELING AS THOUGH THEY ARE WALKING IN S SOMEBODY'S BACK YARD IS GOING TO BE THAT CASE NO MATTER WHAT WE DO OR DON'T DO.
I HAVE THAT FEELING. YOUR PREVIOUS DECISION NOT REQUIRING THE FENCE OR TOLERATING EXISTING ENCROACHMENT DID NOT PROCEED THE VEHICULAR OR PEDESTRIAN RIGHT-OF-WAY IS ONE YOU MADE BASED ON COMMON SENSE AND REASON AND ACKNOWLEDGED THE REALITY OF THE NATURE OF THE SHELL COVE SUBDIVISION.
THE ENCROACHMENTS THAT ARE EXISTING HOW TO MY KNOWLEDGE ARE THE SAME AS THEY WERE JULY 2, 0 2019.
THESE ENCROACHMENTS CONSISTENT PRIMARILY OF PAVERS, VEGETATION AND GRAVEL. THESE THINGS TYPICALLY DO NOT EXTEND MORE THAN SIX FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINES INTO THE UNIMPROVED CITY RIGHT-OF-WAYS OF WAY AND DO NOT IMPEDE PEDESTRIAN FOUR CITY ALONG THE. AND THIS INCLUDES ENCROACHMENT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE THAT IS NO DIFFERENT A FEW YEARS AGO EXCEPT THE SHRUBBERY HAS GROWN. IT REALLY HAS.
I HAVE FURNITURE. MOST OF THE TIME IT IS ON MY PROPERTY, BUT I MOVE IT AROUND. I LIKE TO MOVE THINGS AROUND.
I REARRANGE POTS FROM TIME TO TIME.
ALL OF THE SEATING IS ON MY PROPERTY.
AND I OFTEN SIT OUTSIDE. AND ENGAGE WITH THE WALKERS WHO COME ALONG HICKORY STREET. I LOVE THE SCHOOL KIDS.
MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WALK THAT WAY HAVE COMMENTED TO ME HOW NICE AND HOW WELCOMING HICKORY LOOKS NOW COMPARED TO YEARS GONE
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BY WITH OLD TIRES, HIGH WEEDS, RUBBISH, FALLEN TREES AND CONSTRUCTION DEBRIS LITTERING THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY.SHELL COVE HOMEOWNERS RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF THAT CLEANUP. I ALSO MOWED THE RIGHT-OF-WAY MYSELF AND CONCERNED OF WALKERS ENCOUNTERING SNAKES SO THEY CAN EASILY SPOT THEM. RECONSIDER YOUR PREVIOUS DECISION AND DO NOT ADDRESS OTHER RIGHT-OF-WAY ENCROACHMENTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. IN MY OPINION YOU PUT THE CITY IN THE UNTENABLE LEGAL POSITION AS ACTING IN AN ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS MANNER WITH NO COMPELLING RJS.
SINCE YOU SHOULD RELY AND ACT ACCORDINGLY.
AS DENISE SAID, WITH THE MEETING IN 2019, I WOULD IMMEDIATELY PASSED FOR APPROVAL OF THE ENCROACHMENT.
AND ASK YOU TO ACT WITH INTEGRITY.
THANK YOU. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU.
ALL RIGHT. WOULD ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK
ON THIS ISSUE? >> SEEING NONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT. AND COMMISSIONERS, I AM GOING TO ASK THE CITY MANAGER IF THE STAFF HAS A RECOMMENDATION AND
OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR, STAFF -- IN SPEAKING WITH SO MANY COMMISSIONERS, SUCH A DISPARITY OF OPINIONS, AND IF WE GO BACK TO THE MEETING THAT WE ACCEPTED THE STREETS. THE IMPRESSION IS IN MY CONVERSATION WITH YOU, MR. MAYOR, THAT, YES, THEY ARE DE DE FACTOR ALLOWED AND IF THEY BECOME AT THE CITY'S DISCRETION PROBLEMATIC, THE CITY RETAINS THE RIGHT AND WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE FLIGHT ANY RIGHT-OF-WAYS THROUGHOUT THE CITY TO REMOVE THEM. THE CITY IS IN THE PROCESS OF PREPARING A RIGHT-OF-WAY PERMIT FOR A LACK OF A BETTER WORD TO DISTRIBUTE TO ALL PROPERTY O R OWNERS ACROSS THE CITY THAT PROPERTY OWNERS ARE ENCROACHING INTO THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS WILL BE ASKED TO SIGN A WAIVER FOR THE CITY.IF THINK ANY DAMAGE OR CLAIMS ARE MADE AGAINST THINGS IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY, THAT PROPERTY OWNER IS YOU RESPONSIBLE AND NOT THE CITY. WILL EN DEMOCRAT ANY PHI FOR ANY INJURIES IF THEIR ENCROACHMENT DO CAUSE HARM.
IF THE PROPERTY OWNER DOES NOT SIGN THE WAIVERS, THAT THE CITY MAY IN ENCROACHMENT IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE. AND THOSE WAIVERS ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING REVIEWED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY AND CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AS CITY STAFF IS OUT IN VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOODS.
BASICALLY ALLOWING ENCROACHMENT TO THE RIGHT-OF-WAY WITH THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THERE WILL BE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ENCROACHMENT IN THE RIGH Y RIGHT-OF-WAY.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: VICE-MAYOR. >> VICE MAYOR KREGER: MY CONCERN WITH THE HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY WHICH IS GENERALLY DIFFERENT IN THE CONCEPT THAT IT IS A MAJOR ACCESS TO OUR GR GREENWAY. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GREENWAY COMMENTS OF THE 60 FEET. AND THAT PEOPLE FEEL INTIMIDATED THAT THEY ARE WALKING THROUGH PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS.
I FEEL THAT AND WE ALL GOT A BUNCH OF E-MAILS SUPPORTING MOVING OFF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. PROGRESSIVELY WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS STARTING OUT WITH THE FIRST HOUSE WHICH ORIGINALLY WAS ONE OF THE HOUSES THAT EN FRINGES. THEY ARE NOT THERE ANYMORE AND PROGRESSIVELY MOVED UP TO PATIO, PATIO.
FURNITURE GETS MOVED OUT. AND THEN FURNITURE GETS MOVED BACK. WHEN PEOPLE GO -- THAT IS MY CONCERN WITH DISCUSSES OF FENCES AND THE SIX-FOOT FENCE WAS NOT IN THERE. THAT IS NOT MY ISSUE.
MY ISSUE THEY ARE NOT AT THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND PEOPLE CANNOT WALK THROUGH A FIELD WALKING THROUGH THEIR BACKYARDS, PERIOD.
EVERYBODY THAT LIVES ON HICKORY AND SHELL COVE SAYS THERE NO PROBLEM. IT IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WALKING THROUGH THERE.
OKAY. AND WE HAVE THINGS SUPPORTING THAT. THIS GOT A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE WE STARTED STEEVING E-MAILS -- MOST OF US RECEIVED E-MAILS SUGGESTING THAT THE PROPERTY MANAGER HAD TALKED
[00:20:07]
OF LIENS. PENALTIES AND LIENS.NEVER A LETTER SENT AND SOMEHOW THE INFORMATION GOT OUT AND THE REALITY IS THAT PART OF THAT CAME OUT BECAUSE ANOTHER RAINFALL ISSUE WHICH WAS HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY -- NOT HICKORY BUT INDIGO RIGHT-OF-WAY ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THIS INFRINGES SIGNIFICANTLY OF SUBSIDIZED HOUSING AND THERE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINTS. CODE ENFORCEMENT WAS OUT THERE.
REPORTS THAT PEOPLE WERE CROSSING THROUGH ON TO THEIR PROPERTY WHICH WAS THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
AS I SAID. SO THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE WHICH I THINK PROBABLY ENTERED INTO THE PROPERTY MANAGER'S DECISION.
MY POSITION IS THAT I BELIEVE THAT THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY NEEDS TO BE CLEAR FOR PEOPLE TO WALK THROUGH, AND THAT PATIO DOESN'T INFRINGE ON THAT. I CONSIDER IT DIFFERENT THAN -- AND FURTHERMORE INS YESTERDAY. MAKE THAT -- MAKE THAT ENTRANCE IN THE BIG YELLOW GATE AND THAT WILL BE FIXED SO IT IS VERY RECEPTIVE TO PEOPLE GOING ON TO THAT.
THE GREENWAY, ONE OF THE PRIME JEWELS OF THIS CITY, AND TO LIMIT ACCESS TO THAT FOR ANY Y WAY, SHAPE -- TO PEOPLE -- AND THEY ARE. AND I TALKED TO TWO PEOPLE TODAY THAT THAT SHOULD NOT BE -- PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WALK THROUGH THERE. I UNDERSTAND THE SIX-FOOT FENCE AND WHAT THE LADY EXPRESSED WAS CERTAINLY A CONCERN.
IT WAS NOT IN THE PLAN. WE TALKED OF OTHER ISSUES BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO GET OFF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND NOT LIKE ANY OTHER RIGHT-OF-WAY IN THE CITY. THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND ADDRESSED DIFFERENTLY. SO -- THAT IS MY POSITION.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU, SIR.
ANYONE ELSE? COMMISSIONER ROSS.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS: DALE, WOULD YOU MIND PUTTING THAT PICTURE UP. SO RIGHT-OF-WAYS RIGHT-OF-WAYS ARE 60 FOOT -- THROUGH THE CITY THEY ARE 60 FEET AND GO FROM THE TELEPHONE POLE TO THE TELEPHONE POLE AND THEY ARE THROUGH THE ENTIRE CITY. IN THOSE RIGHT-OF-WAYS, THERE ARE PARKING PADS, WALLS, BUSHES, TREES, AND THERE IS NO PARKING ZONES. THIS WEEK DURING SHRINK FEST, A CITY RIGHT-OF-WAY AND THEY WERE CHARGING FOR PARKING THERE.
THEY HAD IT BLANKED OFF. THE ONLY REQUIREMENT THAT THE CITY HAD FOR RIGHT-OF-WAYS IS, ONE, NO SAFETY ISSUES.
AND TWO, IF YOU TAKE OUT -- IF THERE IS A PROBABLY FOR UTILITIES AND ANY OTHER USE THAT THE CITY WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT SO THAT IS WHAT THE CITY IS REQUIRED.
THE CITY HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THAT AND WHETHER ANY ENCROACHMENT, THAT RIGHT IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY FOR THE CITY.
SHELL COVE WAS DONE WITH A PUD. I THINK -- I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I WAS ON THE COMMISSION OR NOT BUT ON THE PAB.
AND I THINK I VOTED AGAINST IT. THE PUD AS THE LADY POINTED OUT NO LOT LINE DEVELOPMENT. AND THE IDEA IS THAT THEY HAVE SAVE ALL THE TREES AND MANY, MANY MORE TREES IN SHELL COVE.
BUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT THE DEVELOPER TO NOT CUT DOWN THE TREE. MANY OF THOSE HOUSES ALONG HICKORY STREET. WHEREAS IN THE REST OF THE CITY A BACK YARD SETBACK FOR 10 FEET. SOME OF THOSE ARE THREE FEET AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. THERE IS NO BACK YARD.
THE CITY ALLOWED THAT TO OCCUR. NOT ONLY ALLOWED IT, BUT ENCOURAGED THE PUD AT THE TIME. SUBSEQUENT EVENTS TALKED ABOUT BY ONE OF THE PEOPLE. THIS IS THE GATE THAT SHOWS THE RIGHT-OF-WAYS THAT EXISTED LAST WEEKEND.
WHAT IS INVITING AND TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO GO THERE IS A GATE THAT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING. SOME COMMENT THAT THE CITY MANAGER PRIVATELY HAS SAID THEY WILL REMOVE THAT GATE AND PUT SOMETHING IN THERE. SO NO VEHICLES WILL GO DOWN THERE. ALSO APPROPRIATE WITH A NEXT SIGN THAT SAYS THIS IS ACCESS TO THE GREENWAY AND PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO COME DOWN HERE. I BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. AND IF YOU WERE GOING TO REGULATE THIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY FROM THE REST OF IT, I THINK THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE. LOOKING AT IT, I WALKED DOWN
[00:25:02]
THERE. NOT INTIMIDATING.A NICE PATH. AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE STATUS QUO. I WOULD HOPE THAT THE CITY WILL CHANGE THAT GATE FOR THE NEXT SIGN UP AND LET WELL ENOUGH ALONE AS WE HAVE IN MANY THINGS. THIS IS MUCH ADO ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT REALLY BIG PROBLEM FOR PEOPLE ACCESSING THE GREENWAY AND MANY OTHER THINGS. NO MORE OF A PROBLEM THAN OTHER PROBLEMS IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY WITH PARKING AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. THAT IS MY POSITION.
>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH:
COMMISSIONER BEAN. >> COMMISSIONER BEAN: WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS THE INTENT. WHAT IS THE INTENT OF ENCROACHMENT, AND THAT IS SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN PUTTING A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO. WHAT IS THE INTENT.
IN THE CASE OF MANY OF THE ENCROACHMENTS DESCRIBED BY THE COMMISSIONERS, THE INTENT IS TO TRAVEL THROUGHOUT GREENWAY THAT GOES THROUGH THE ENCROACHMENT. THAT IS AN INTENT TO USE -- A DIFFERENT INTENT OF ONE TO SIT AND WAIT.
THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT INTENTS. IN FACTS, I THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE AS A VICE MINOR OF TYPES OF RIGHT-OF-WAY.
RIGHT-OF-WAY HERE, THIS IS THE INTENT OF A TRAIL.
THIS ALWAYS HAS BEEN A TRAIL. AS WE LOOK MANY, MANY YEARS, THIS HAS BEENED AS ONE OF THE PRIMARY ACCESSES TO GET TO OUR GREENWAY WHICH IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ON OUR ISLAND.
THAT IS THE INTENT OF THIS RIGHT-OF-WAY.
IT IS DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER RIGHT-OF-WAY.
IN FACT WITHIN THE SHELL COVE USAGE, THERE ARE DIFFERENT -- PEOPLE WHO USE THEIR FOUR FEET TO PLANT A HEDGE AND HAVE ONE LINE OF PAVERS OVER THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE USED IT TO BUILD FULL-ON SITTING AREAS ACROSS THE RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT GO MANY FEET PAST THE FOUR FEET.
COMMISSIONERS, I JUST WANT US TO CONSIDER THIS.
IS THAT EVERYBODY THAT OWN AS A SHELL COVE HOME KNEW WHEN THEY BOUGHT IT THAT THE BACK YARD WAS FOUR FEET FROM THEIR BACK DOOR.
EVERYBODY KNEW THAT. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS KNOWN AHEAD OF TIME BY THE PEOPLE WHO PURCHASED THEIR HOMES. I WANT TO QUESTION THAT IF WE ALLOW PEOPLE TO BUILD SITTING AREAS OUTSIDE OF THEIR PROPERTY LINES, THAT WILL HAVE RAMIFICATION S THAT WILL NEGATIVELY IMPACT US FOR YEARS TO COME TO IF WE ALLOW THIS.
IN FACT, IF WE ALLOW THIS -- IF WE ALLOW THIS -- WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ARBITRARILY PUT A STOP TO IT.
AND ALLOWED TO GO SIX FEET OVER. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO THIS.
WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ARBITRARILY WAY OF SLICING IN AN ARBITRARY SOLUTION BECAUSE IF WE AGREE EQUAL FROM TEXAS OF THE LAW, WE WILL HAVE TO APPLY TO EVERYWHERE IN THE CITY AND I WANT TO THANK THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT PICTURES.
I LOOK AT THESE OTHER HOUSES AND THEY ALL HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON. THEY ARE WITHIN THEIR ROPERTY LINES. THERE ARE NO ENCROACHMENTS HERE.
THEY ARE -- THEY ARE ON TRAILS, BUT THEY ARE NOT ACROSS THE PROPERTY LINE, IS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.
AS WE LOOK AT THIS COMMI S COMMISSIONERS, I MUST FIRMLY STATE THAT ALL OF THESE TRAILS ALMOST THE SAME SITUATION OF HICKORY STREET -- IF WE CALL IT A TRAIL.
I THINK IT WILL BE IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.
PEOPLE WHO BUILD PATIOS INTO OTHER RIGHT-OF-WAYS.
IN FACT WHAT WILL STOP THEM? IT WILL HAVE TO COME BACK TO US WHEN WE SAID IN 2022 WE ARE ALLOWING PATIOS BUILT IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY AND OUR STATEMENT ACROSS THE WHOLE CITY.
AND THAT WAS MY POSITION OF T THAT, THANK YOU.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: VICE-MAYOR. >> VICE MAYOR KREGER: YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN HICKORY RIDGE DOWN THE STREET.
FIVE TO TEN TIMES A WEEK I AM ON THAT TRAIL.
PROGRESSIVELY SINCE -- AND STOOD POINT.
SO, I JUST WANT -- AND GO FURTHER THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE AN ENCROACHMENT. AND THERE ARE HOUSES THERE.
AND FURTHER AMPLIFY THAT GATE IS GOING TO COME OUT, I UNDERSTAND AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME SIGNAGE TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO USE THAT. BUT MY POSITION STAYS THE SAME.
THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT-OF-WAY IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU, SIR.
VICE-MAYOR. >> I WALKED THE AREA IN DISCUSSION MYSELF. AFTER LOOKING AT IT AND WALKING THE AREA MYSELF, I THINK THAT, I -- I CHANGED MY VIEW ON IT A LITTLE BIT. AND THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN
[00:30:01]
RIGHT-OF-WAYS. THIS IS NOT THE COMMON AREA IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE. THERE ARE SETBACKS.AND ULTIMATELY, I HAVE -- THE FIRST QUESTION I ASK IS I HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH HOMEOWNERS AND HAVE SEEN THE PICTURES AND THE ARTICLES THAT ALL THE HOMEOWNERS SENT IN.
AND FROM WHAT I HEARD, THIS IS BROUGHT TO US BY THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD. THE CODE ENFORCEMENT WENT OUT THERE. NOT ANY ONE OF THESE COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID SOMETHING IS GOING ON AT THE HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON. WHY WAS THIS CHANGED?
>> NO, THIS IS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION FROM CITY STAFF WHO WALKED THE AREA FOR AREAS THAT WEREN'T PREVIOUSLY PERMITTED.
THAT IS MY QUESTION IS TO THE CITY STAFF IS, THERE ENCROACHMENTS -- IF THERE ARE ENCROACHES THAT WEREN'T PE PERMITTED IN MY OPINION IT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED TO THE POINT WHERE IT WAS PERMITTED. THAT IS MY STANCE.
PRETTY PRETTY SIMPLE, CUT AND DRY.
THEY PURCHASED KNOWING THEY HAVE FOUR FEET.
AND I AM NOT STATING THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A FENCE.
I AM NOT SAYING THERE NEEDS TO BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN -- IT IS AN ENCROACHMENT AND IT IS DIFFERENT, EVEN THOUGH IT IS ON A TRAIL AND PLENTY OF ROOM. IT'S NOT THE SAME AS THE FRONT.
IT'S DIFFERENT AND EVERY RIGHT-OF-WAY IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. THAT'S WHAT I SAID.
>> ANYONE ELSE? I GUESS I WILL MAKE MY STATEMENT. CITY MANAGER, CAN YOU PUT THAT PHOTO BACK UP. THANK YOU, MADAM CLERK.
FROM THE HIGHWAY, THIS LOOKS LIKE AN UTILITY ROAD THAT A CITY TRUCK WILL GO DOWN. NOT THE ENTRANCE TO THE GR GREENWAY. TO THE VICE-MAYOR'S POINT THAT THE GREENWAY IS ONE OF THE SXWRULS OF THE CITY.
BAD -- SHAME ON US. I AGREE WITH THE VICE-MAYOR ABOUT THAT. THAT SHOULD BE A WELCOMING ENTRANCE TO OUR GREENWAY BUT IT IS NOT.
POINT NUMBER 1. NUMBER TWO, I WALKED IT THREE TIMES. I WALKED IT IN THE MORNING I TALKED AT NOON AND EARLY VENING AROUND 6, 6:30.
YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE I RAN INTO USING THIS TO GET TO THE GREENWAY? ZERO.
SO THIS ISN'T A MAJOR ACCESS TO -- TO THE GREENWAY.
THERE IS NO PARKING. SO IF YOU LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, YES, YOU ARE GOING TO WALK.
AND USE THIS ENTRANCE. THERE IS NO PARKING.
IN 2019, THIS CAME BEFORE THIS COMMISSION.
THREE OF US WERE ON THAT COMMISSION.
AND WE ALL AGREED WHAT THESE HOMEOWNERS DID WAS FINE.
IN MY REVISITING, WALKING THIS THREE TIMES, IT HAVEN'T CHANGED FROM 2019. OTHER THAN MORE GROWTH OF SOME SHRUB. SO.
IMPROVE THE INTEREST. PUT A WOOD FENCE WHERE IT ENCROACHES TO DELINEATE THEIR PROPERTY AND OUR PROPERTY AND OFF PATHWAY. A DEFINED PATHWAY TO THE GREENWAY. I AM WITH COMMISSIONER ROSS.
THIS IS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. BECAUSE WHEN FIRST THINKING OF PEOPLE BUILDING EXTENSIVE PATIOS INTO THE GREENWAY, NO.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY OF THAT. MAYBE SIX FEET OFF THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. WAS THE LARGEST AREA I SAW.
AND THOSE WERE PAVERS. AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT AT ANY TIME TO SAY WE NEED THIS PROPERTY.
YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE PAVERS. I AM WITH COMMISSIONER ROSS.
IF YOU DO ANYTHING PUT A SIGN AT THE ENTRANCE OF THE GREENWAY.
PUT A THREE-RAIL FENCE THAT DELYNN RATES THE PASSAGE TO THE
[00:35:02]
GREENWAY FROM SHELL COVE. AND WITH THAT, I BELIEVE IT WAS THE VICE-MAYOR AND THEN COMMISSIONER ROSS.>> VICE MAYOR KREGER: YEAH, THERE IS AN EXAMPLE.
A RIGHT-OF-WAY ALONG HICKORY AND A MAJOR HIGH SCHOOL PARKING AREA THAT IS USED REGULARLY ALONG WITH THAT LITTLE -- WHERE THEY THROW THE LITTLE FRISBEE THINGS. WITH THAT BEING SAID.
BUT THE CITY MANAGER IS -- HAS BASICALLY COMMITTED TO MAKING THAT MORE RECEPTIVE. I WILL SAY THAT THERE HAS BEEN ENCROACHMENT SINCE 2019. THERE ARE ONES THAT FURTHER CAME OUT. AND INCLUDING ALL KIND OF THINGS ACROSS THE GREENWAY. AS YOU KNOW, THAT.
BUILD THE SIX-FOOT FENCE AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT.
WHAT I HEAR IS THAT WE HAVE CONSENSUS THAT THAT BE BASICALLY -- WE THEY CLEARLY HAVE RIGHT-OF-WAY.
THAT IS WHAT I AM SEEING. >> 3-2 CONSENSUS.
>> STILL CONSENSUS. >> THAT IS NOT CONSENSUS, JUST MAJORITY. DO YOU HAVE A MAJORITY, YES,
COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> COMMISSIONER ROSS: I DID WALK THAT BACK IN 2019 PRIOR TO THAT LOVELY MEETING THAT WE ALL REFER TO. AND THERE WERE PILES OF JUNK IN THERE. TIRES.
ALL KIND OF CRAP. AND NOBODY WAS MAKING A FUSS ABOUT IT THEN AND THEY HAVE DONE A NICE JOB CLEANING IT UP.
A NICE PATHWAY. PUTTING A FENCE OF ANY KIND.
WE GOT SOUTHERN STUFF ALREADY TO TAKE CARE OF.
YOU WANT TO PUT ANOTHER FENCE IN THERE? NO. THE MAJORITY RULES, BUT I THINK THIS IS A FIRST WORLD PROBLEM. I THINK WE ARE MAKING -- A NICE LITTLE TRAIL DOWN THERE. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS INTIMIDATING WALKING DOWN THERE. I CERTAINLY WASN'T INTIMIDATED WALKING DOWN THERE. I THINK WE SHOULD PUT THE IMPROVEMENTS IN AS THE CITY MARE INJURY AND LET'S SEE WHAT DEVELOPS OVER THE NEXT YEAR. SO I DON'T SEE WHAT IS KEEPING PEOPLE FROM WALKING DOWN THERE. AND EVERY TIME I HAVE BEEN THERE, I NEVER SEEN ANYBODY WALKING DOWN THERE.
I HAVE BEEN THERE MULTIPLE T S TIMES.
I AM SURE THERE ARE TIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE WALKING DOWN THERE.
I AM NOT DISPUTING THAT. BUT THIS IS JUST -- OF ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT AND WE ARE HAVING THING ABOUT THIS? I JUST FIND IT INCREDIBLE.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: COMMISSIONER BEAN.
>> COMMISSIONER BEAN: THANK U YOU, MR. MAYOR.
I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH AND I AM WHAT I AM SUGGESTING, THAT -- I WILL DISQUALIFY MYSELF TO SAY I HAVE WALKED THIS TRAIL HUNDREDS OF TIMES BEFORE AND AFTER SHELL COVE WAS BUILT.
I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY.
WHAT IT IS INTENDED TO BE AND WHAT IT SHOULD BE.
WHAT I THINK WE SHOULD DO IS NOT MAKE A HARD RULE ON THIS.
MAKE IT CLEAR WHAT WE ARE GOING FOR AND NOT A BUZZSAW AND CHOP IT ON THE LINE. PLANTS THAT ARE PLANTED ON THEIR SIDE OF THE LINE TO GROW, OF COURSE, BUT I THINK I AM SPECIFICALLY WORRIED OF PERMANENT ITEMS. WHAT I WOULD QUALIFY AS A PERMANENT ISLAND ARE LAID A PAVERS, PERMANENT SEATS. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS TO PUT THE LAWN CHAIRS OUT TO ENJOY THEMSELVES, BUT THAT IS THE CORRECT PATH. WE SHOULDN'T HAVE PERMANENT FIXTURES ON CITY PROPERTY IS WHAT -- FOR THE PURPOSE OF WHAT
I COULD SAY. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: CAN YOU
DEFINE A PERMANENT SEAT? >> ONE THAT IS -- YEAH, I WILL KNOW IT WHEN I SEE IT. A HEAVY IRON CHAIR THAT -- DIFFERENT THAN A LAWN CHAIR. ONE THAT IS BROUGHT OUT SHORT PERIODS OF TIME AND PUT BACK. THERE FOR WEEKS OF A TIME.
THERE FOREVER. I THINK THAT IS NOT WHAT THE INTENT IS. THE INTENT IS THAT WE CAN STILL, OF COURSE, LIKE ANY OTHER CITIZEN ENJOY THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY, BUT WE SHOULDN'T BE HAVING PERMANENT FIXTURES OUT THERE.
>> COMMISSIONER STURGESS. >> COMMISSIONER STURGES: I AGREE WITH BRADLEY AND THE CONSENSUS OF THOUGHT.
NOT MAKE THE BUSHES SPECIFICALLY REMOVED.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD PUT A FENCE UP EVEN I THINK IT WILL ADD MORE FOR US TO MAINTAIN. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH CHIP ON THAT. BUT THE SIMPLE SOLUTION IS IF IT WAS PERMITTED AND PERMITTED AND PASSED BY THE CITY, THAN IT SHOULD STAY AND HOPEFULLY ALL THE PERMANENT ITEMS THAT ARE NOT
[00:40:02]
PERMITTED ON THE OTHER SIDE IF THEY ARE ALREADY REMOVED AND THAT'S BASICALLY IT. IT IS REAL SIMPLE.>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: OKAY. I AM HEARING -- SO I -- I SAW YOUR LIGHT. AND I WILL GET TO YOU IN JUST ONE SECOND. SO I AM HEARING PLANTS ARE OKAY.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT. SO YOU ARE GOING TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO KEEP THEIR PLANTS THERE, BUT WE ARE GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE REMOVE EVERYTHING ELSE. SO SOME PEOPLE ENCROACH, SOME DON'T. LIKE SOLOMON SPLITTING THE BABY.
I RAISE THAT POINT, COMMISSIONER ROSS.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS: TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY PERMIT.
THERE ARE NO PERMITS FOR ENCROACHMENT IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. YOU DON'T NEED A BUILDING PERMIT
FOR A PAVER PORCH, AM I CORRECT? >> RIGHT.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS: AIM CORRECT? I MEAN, THE PROBLEM I HAVE, GENTLEMEN, I UNDERSTAND, BUT WE ARE MAKING MUCH MORE OUT OF THIS THAN NEEDED.
WE HAVE ENCROACHMENTS IN ALL THE RIGHT-OF-WAY OF THE CITIES WITH MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE THINGS AND NOT VERY FRIENDLY IN OTHER PLACES FOR PARKING. PARKING IS.
WE DON'T ALLOW PARKING AND THIS AND ONE LITTLE SPOT IN THE ENTIRE CITY WE ARE FOCUSING AND I AM NOT SURE WHY WE JUST GO.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: VICE-MAYOR AND COMMISSIONER BEAN.
>> VICE MAYOR KREGER: CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT WHAT THE MAYOR AND COMMISSIONER BEAN ARE SAYING, MOST OF THE PLANTS ARE ADJACENT RIGHT CLOSE UP. THE PATIOS, AND PAVERS, AS YOU GO FURTHER, YOU SEE HOW ONE GOES OUT.
YOU. NOW INTERESTING ENOUGH, THE CHAIRS HAVE BEEN MOVED BACK, BUT I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, THE PAVERS. SO, YOU KNOW, GET CHAIRS OUT THERE AND THEY PLANTED TREES JUST LIKE PEOPLE DECK RATE CHRISTMAS TREES THERE. JUST LIKE THEY DO ON CITY RIGHT-OF-WAYS. I DON'T THINK THAT IS A PROBLEM.
BUT PAVERS AND IT IS -- IT IS THAT CONCEPT OF WALKING THROUGH THEIR BACK YARD. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYS IT NOT A BIG DEAL, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS A BG DEAL.
I BELIEVE IT RESTRICTS PEOPLE. THEY TURN AROUND -- I SEE PEOPLE ON IT ALL THE TIME. I AM CONTINUE TO PROBABLY TEN TIMES A WEEK, TWICE A DAY SOMETIMES.
SO I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS ON -- ON THAT.
SOME PEOPLE PROBABLY SEEN ME RUNNING BY AND SOMETIMES THEY
DON'T SEE ME BECAUSE IT IS DARK. >> BECAUSE YOU ARE SO FAST.
>> COMMISSIONER BEAN: I AM NOT THAT FAST.
MURDERER MORE WHAT -- THIS WAS BROUGHT TO US BY CODE ENFORCEMENT AND I DON'T WANT TO -- YOU KNOW, I WANT TO COMMEND THE CITY FOR -- LET'S LOOK AT OUR RIGHT-OF-WAYS AND LOOK AT THAT ISSUE. AND I WANT TO GO -- LISTEN, INDIGO IS NOT OFF THE TABLE. THEY CHOPPED UP THAT BUFFER THERE. AND THAT IS WHAT CODE ENFORCEMENT. WE NEED TO COME TO SOME KINDS OF
AGREEMENT FOR ALL RIGHTS-OF-WAY. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH:
COMMISSIONER BEAN. >> COMMISSIONER BEAN: AGREE WITH THE VICE-MAYOR'S PAINT. PAVERS AT THE END.
DAY. AND I BELIEVE THERE IS A PERMIT FOR THINGS ON THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. A WALL PERMIT.
ISN'T THAT AN ITEM. >> A PERMIT AND SAID, LEX, CAN I PUT IT IN THERE AND GAVE A LITTLE PIECE OF PAPER AND SAID
SURE. >> SEEMS LIKE A WEIRD WAY OF
DOING IT. >> I AM NOT DENYING THAT.
BUT -- I HAVE A QUESTION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY.
>> YES. >> LET'S SAY WE WANT TO -- THE CITY COMMISSION -- SOME OF THE MEMBERS WANT TO FOCUS ON THIS ONE LITTLE RIGHT-OF-WAY. KEYED ENFORCEMENT -- WHAT RULE ARE THEY ENCROACHING WHEN CODE ENFORCEMENT GOES OUT THERE, WHAT IS THE INFRACTION. I SAT THROUGH ENOUGH OF THEM THAT THERE IS AN INFRACTION. WHAT THE INFRACTION?
>> NOT A SPECIFIC CODE REF E REFERENCE.
>> SO CODE ENFORCEMENT REALLY DOES NO JURISDICTION PARTICULAR
USE THE WORD. >> THEY ARE NOT CITING A SPECIFIC CODE SECTION. THEY MAY SAY NUISANCE -- A C H
CATCH-ALL NUISANCE. >> COMMISSIONER BEAN: IF THE
[00:45:02]
CITY COMMISSION WANTED TO PA HAVE A SPOT, WHAT WOULD BE THE NECESSARY PROCESS? BECAUSE CLEARLY ACROSS THE CITY.AND I THANK ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR RIGHT-OF-WAYS AND TAKE CARE OF THEM. BECAUSE LET ME POINT OUT THAT THE CITY CANNOT TAKE CARE OF ALL THE RIGHT-OF-WAY IN THE CITY.
WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO DO IT.
PEOPLE ARE DOING A REALLY NICE JOB OF CAKING CARE OF THEIR RIGHT-OF-WAYS. MOST.
SO WHAT WOULD THE CITY HAVE -- TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS ENFORCEMENT, WHAT WOULD THE CITY NEED.
>> IT IS ENFORCEABLE. THE CITY HOLDS RIGHT-OF-WAY AS NOT -- NOT ITS OWN PROPERTY. IT IS HOLDING THE RIGHT-OF-WAY IN THE PUBLIC TRUST. IT ACTUALLY BELONGS TO ORIGINALLY -- IN THE CITY, THE FLORIDA RAILROAD COMPANY AND THEY ALWAYS OWN IT AND ANY OF THEIR SUCCESSORS AND INTERESTS.
CITY HAS A RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT IS DEDICATING THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY TO THE PUBLIC TRUST FOR THE CITY TO BE A GOOD STEWARD.
WHAT RIGHT-OF-WAY IT IS, THAT IS WHAT IT MEANS.
>> YOU GO AND YOU SAY I HAVE TO TAKE THAT OUT.
AND THEY SAY HYPOTHETICALLY, THEY SAY I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT OUT. WHAT WOULD THE CITY NEED TO DO?
>> SO WHAT I WOULD DO IS -- AND I WAS -- I WOULD GO AHEAD TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER YOU NEED TO SEND A NOTICE AND GIVE THEM A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME TO -- AND REASONABLE AS YOU WELL KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT A REASONABLE STANDARD IS.
YOU GIVE THEM A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME TO REMOVE EVERYTHING FROM THE RIGHT-OF-WAY OR THE CITY WILL GO OUT THERE
AND REMOVE IT FOR THEM. >> YOU WOULD FORCIBLY REMOVE.
>> WE CAN. AFTER PROPER NOTICE.
YEAH. AND THAT IS BASED TO WHAT I AM
HEARING HERE, IF THE MAJORITY. >> SEND OUT THE ROAD CREW TO TAKE OUT RIGHT-OF-WAY ENCROACHMENTS.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT CREW, BUT THERE WOULD BE A DROO CREW OF
CITY STAFF, YES. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT.
>> WHEN WE SAID "PERMIT"EARLIER, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE -- THERE IS A DIFFERENCE ABOUT BUILDING PERMITS.
GOING TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND PULLING A BUILDING PERMIT AND RIGHT-OF-WAY ENCROACHMENT. THE CITY, MR. LESTER DID A HANDOUT. WE ARE MAKING IT MORE COMPLICATED OF WHAT IT SAYS. YOU DO NOT NEED A BUILDING PERMIT IN THE CITY FOR A PAVER PATIO.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE THREE COMMISSIONERS WHO -- TO STRONGLY FEEL ENCROACHMENT ON THE RIGHT-OF-WAY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AS FAR AS HARD MATERIALS.
LET'S USE THAT DESCRIPTION. SO THE THREE COMMISSIONERS IN FAVOR. WHAT IS YOUR DIRECTION TO STAFF?
>> I WILL LET THE VICE-MAYOR SPEAK.
>> VICE MAYOR KREGER: SEND OUT NOTICE TO THOSE IN SPECIFIC VIOLATION AND GIVE THEM A NOTICE TO REMOVE THEM.
>> DEFINE A VIOLATION. SO THEY KNOW.
>> EXACTLY WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SAID, ENCROACHMENT ON
THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. >> COMMISSIONER BEAN SAID P S PLANTS. YOU ARE SAYING --
>> VICE MAYOR KREGER: I THINK COMMISSIONER BEAN SAID HARD
SURFACES AND PAVERS. >> I WANT CLARIFICATION, VICE-MAYOR. THAT'S ALL.
>> SPECIFICALLY ONLY FOR HICKORY STREET, INDIGO STREET.
>> THE HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY.
INDIGO IS A WHOLE SEPARATE ISSUE.
THAT WAS DESTRUCTION. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE ARE
GOING TO HANDLE THAT ISSUE. >> IT HAS NOT BEEN INSPECTED AND
-- >> VICE MAYOR KREGER: CODE ENFORCEMENT ON INDIGO AND SUBSIDIZED HOUSING BEHIND IT.
AND YOU HAVE BEEN OUT THERE. THE ISSUE IN THE BUFFER.
ANOTHER TERMS OF RIGHT-OF-WAY. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH:
COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> COMMISSIONER ROSS: IT IS NOT A BUFFER. IT IS JUST A RIGHT-OF-WAY.
>> VICE MAYOR KREGER: THERE WAS A NATURAL --
>> MR. MAYOR, CAN I SIT DOWN OR --
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: YOU MAY SIT DOWN.
I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A DEBATE WHAT IS A BUFFER OR NOT A BUFFER. HICKORY STREET, LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE. OKAY.
[00:50:02]
SO CITY MANAGER, ARE YOU CLEAR AS TO THE INTENT OF THREE OF THEFIVE COMMISSIONERS? >> I BELIEVE AS STATED THAT STAFF NEEDS TO IDENTIFY AND NOTIFY THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS OF A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME REMOVE THOSE VIOLATIONS FROM THE
HICKORY STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY. >> PAVERS.
>> PAVERS. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH:
COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> COMMISSIONER ROSS: YOU SAY VIOLATIONS. YOU MEAN WHAT.
>> IT WILL BE ANYTHING ON THE CITY SIDE OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY
LINE. >> SO IF THEY HAVE A POT SITTING
OUT THERE, THAT IS IN VIOLATION? >> WE JUST SAID PAVERS.
>> THAT IS NOT -- >> I GUESS I AM NOT CLEAR.
>> HE IS NOT CLEAR. [LAUGHTER]
>> HOW -- >> THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE DEFINITION, GENTLEMEN. BECAUSE WE ARE GOING DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE. THAT IS WHY I AM ASKING FOR A VERY SPECIFIC DEFINITION. WE ARE GOING DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THE EXCUSE OF SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT.
SO THAT WHEN YOU DESCRIBE, A, A VIOLATION, YOU ARE SELECTIVELY ENFORCING THESE HOMEOWNERS, JUST BY THE NATURE OF IT.
AND WHAT ARE THEY VIOLATING? >> TO REMOVE PAVERS OR CONCRETE PERMANENT FIGURES THAT ARE ENCROACHING ON THE CITY
RIGHT-OF-WAY ON HICKORY STREET. >> NOW I AM NOT PICKING ON YOU.
I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR. WHAT IF THEY PUT A LOUNGE CHAIR ON THE RIGHT-OF-WAY? IT'S NOT -- IT IS ON THE GRASS.
>> THEY CAN PUT THEIR CHAIR AND SIT ON IT.
JUST LIKE I CAN PUT A CHAIR ON THE RIGHT-OF-WAY ON THE STREET.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: I HAVE COMMISSIONER BEAN AND
COMMISSIONER STURGESS. >> COMMISSIONER BEAN: THE MAYOR HAS MADE IT CLEAR. IF THEY FIND A POT, I WOULD HOPE THEY MOVE THE POT AND TAKE IT OFF THE PUBLIC LAND.
THE VICE PRESIDENT HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR AND I WANT TO GO WITH WHAT THE VICE-MAYOR SAID ON THIS.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: I DON'T SEE ANYONE ELSE.
>> SO IT IS CLEAR. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH:
COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> COMMISSIONER ROSS: THE ONLY THING YOU ARE REMOVING ARE P R PAVERS.
>> VICE MAYOR KREGER: ANY CONCRETE.
ANYTHING THAT WAS DONE -- HOW ABOUT GRAVEL?
>> HOW ABOUT MULCH? MULCH IS OKAY.
>> JUST TO MAKE ONE POINT. SORRY I FLIPPED MY LIGHT ON.
THIS WASN'T SELECTED. OPINION THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BROUGHT IT TO US. COMMISSIONER SAID WE ARE GOING TO GO OUT THERE TO HARASS THE SHELL COVE MEMBERS.
THE HOMEOWNERS OF SHELL COVE. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT AND I WASN'T EVEN ON THIS COMMISSION. THIS WASN'T SELECTIVE.
THEY SAID BY THE WAY YOUR FEET IS TWO FEET BEFORE WE START FINING. GUESS WHAT, I AM OUT THERE
CHOPPING.OFF. >> IN YOUR MIND.
BUT I THINK SOME ATTORNEYS. COMMISSIONER STURGES.
THEY WOULD PROBABLY ARGUE. THING IS CLEAR AND THIS HAS BEEN PUT TO BED FOR TODAY. THANK YOU, SIR.
[3.2 SIGN ORDINANCE]
ALL RIGHT, ITEM 3.2. SIGN ORDINANCE.COMMISSIONER BEAN, YOU PUT IT N ON.
>> COMMISSIONER BEAN: WE HAVE SIX MINUTES LEFT AND WE ONLY NEED TWO. THIS WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT LOCAL BUSINESSES AT ITS CITY THAT IS PUT AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE DUE TO OUR SIGN ORDINANCE. I WANT TO BRING IT TO OUR ATTENTION JUST TO LOOK AT IT. WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
AND YOU MAY THINK OF IT AS AN UNDERLYING -- THAT RENRIBINGTS THE NUMBER OF FLAGS ON ANY PARCEL TO ONE FLAG PER PARCEL.
THE ORDINANCE FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE CITY.
AND IN THE CASE OF THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE ON THE BOARD -- WE KNOW OUR CITY HAS LONG BORDERS BECAUSE IT IS ODDLY SHAPED. WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE END UP IN A SITUATION WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT BUSINESSES AND APPROACHED ME ON THIS. THESE BUSINESSES THAT ARE ACROSS THE STREET FROM AN ALMOST IDENTICAL BUSINESS.
A NAIL SALON OR A HAIR SALON AND A GYM.
THESE BUSINESSES ARE PLACED THERE AND NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE
[00:55:02]
THE FLAGS ON THE PROPERTY BUT COMPET IN THE COUNTY IS.SO WE END UP WITH -- YOU DRIVE DOWN 14TH STREET.
YOU END UP WITH A POSITION A NAIL SALON WITH FLAGS ON ONE SIDE AND NAIL SALON THAT IS PAYING CITY TAXES OUR NAIL S SALON. OUR SIDE OF THE BORDER.
PUT YOU IN THE SHOES OF MAYBE SOMEONE WHO IS A TOURIST AND LOOKING FOR A NAIL SALON PLACE AND THEY ARE DRIVING DOWN.
THEY MIGHT SEE THE FLAGS AND SOMETHING THAT MAY HELP YOU CHOOSE YOUR HAIRSTYLIST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THAT IS WHAT THESE BUSINESS OWNERS HAVE APPROACHED ME WITH.
I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK FOR THE SOLUTION.
I AGREE THAT THESE FLAGS ARE NOT THE BEST LOOK FOR A HISTORIC DOWNTOWN AND MUST BE A WAY TO HELP THESE BUSINESSES ON OUR BORDER COMPETE WITH THOSE IN THE COUNTY.
THANK YOU, THAT IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION.
I WANTED TO BRING IT UP. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: THANK YOU, SIR. COMMISSIONER ROSS.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS: SO I SUGGEST THAT WE APPROACH THE COUNTY AND LET'S HAVE THEM UP THEIR GAME SO WE CAN HAVE LESS SIGNS. AND LESS -- WHAT PEOPLE CALL SIGN POLLUTION. I WILL OFFER THAT AS AN ALTERNATIVE. BACK IN 2005, A BLUE RIBBON COMMITTEE. THEY SPENT HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS AND ALL THESE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SIGNS, AND I -- BUT MAYBE WE CAN GET THE COUNTY TO CHANGE THEIR ORD E
ORDINANCE. >> MAYOR LEDNOVICH:
COMMISSIONER STURGESS. >> COMMISSIONER STURGES: THANK YOU, MAYOR. BY HALF A SECOND AND REAL FAST.
I AGREE WITH CHIP. THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME CREATING OUR SIGN ORDINANCES. AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I VOTE FOR ANNEXATION. LET'S JUST ANNEX THEM, AND GUESS WHAT, IT WILL ALL BE THE CITY. AND THAT IS MY ANSWER EVERY TIME. EVERY TIME YOU ASK ME.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: VICE-MAYOR. >> VICE MAYOR KREGER: I AGREE.
TO TALK WITH THE COUNTY ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS.
I AM NOT LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS EITHER.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: COMMISSIONER ROSS.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS: I WANT TO SUPPORT COMMISSIONER STURGES'
IDEA. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR, TO CLOSE OUT. THANK YOU FOR THE DISCUSSION AND THIS WILL BE A TOPIC IN OUR JOINT COUNTY MEETING AND MAYBE CARVE OUT A MINI ISLAND TO MATCH OUR SIGN ORDINANCE TO HAVE A
JOINT. >> EXCELLENT, THANK YOU, GUYS.
>> MAYOR LEDNOVICH: WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS THAT THE CITY MANAGER TALK TO THE COUNTY MANAGER ON A WEEKLY BASIS.
AND THAT THE CITY MANAGER BRING THIS TOPIC UP TO THE COUNTY MANAGER. AS THE COUNTY MANAGER WHAT THE NEXT STEP WITH THE COUNTY ON THIS ISSUE AND YOU REPORT BACK US TO, THAT WOULD BE TERRIFIC. ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING ELSE, GENTLEMEN? SEEING NONE.
WE WILL BE ADJOURNED UNTIL 6:10
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.