[1. CALL TO ORDER] [3.1 BUILDING DEPARTMENT] [00:15:49] YOU SHOULD BE MORE OUTRAGED THAN ANYONE ELSE HERE. [00:15:53] I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU SOME THOUGHTS ON WHAT I THINK AND [00:15:56] WHAT OUR MEMBERSHIP HAS ASKED ME TO LOOK AT. [00:15:59] FIRST OF ALL, I WANT YOU TO ENSURE THIS IS A REAL AND SYSTEMIC PROBLEM. THIS IS NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I ASK YOU TO TAKE ACTION IN SUGGESTING THAT WE TRAIN THE STAFF OR WE HIRE MORE PEOPLE IS LUDICROUS. IT'S NOT WHAT WE NEED. WE NEED TO IMMEDIATELY SEND A REQUEST TO THE COUNTY AND ASK THEM TO TAKE OVER THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I'VE ALSO HEARD SUGGESTIONS TO OUTSOURCE TO A PRIVATE COMPANY. AND THAT'S FINE TOO. THE PROBLEM IS A PRIVATE COMPANY IS GOING TO BE A PROFIT-SEEKING COMPANY AND THE COST MAY BE HIGHER. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE COUNTY DOESN'T WANT THIS. I'VE SPOKEN TO AT LEAST ONE COUNTY COMMISSIONER WHO SAID WE WOULD ENTERTAIN TAKING THIS. THE PROBLEM IS, IS IF THEY SEE YOU AS AN OVERSIGHT VEHICLE FOR THEM, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WANT TO TAKE IT. THEY DON'T WANT TO JUMP IN THE BEEHIVE. I WOULD ALSO ASK THAT YOU IMMEDIATELY ESTABLISH AN OVERSIGHT BOARD OF CONSTRUCTION APPEALS. WE NEED A THIRD PARTY LIKE THE CHAMBER TO RECOMMEND PEOPLE TO THIS BOARD SO THAT WE HAVE A GROUP OF CROSS SECTION IN THE CITY WHO CAN OVERSIGHT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I'M NOT GOING TO SAY WE NEED TO FIRE EVERYBODY. WE NEED TO DO IT ACCORDING TO THE RULES AND LAWS AND POLICIES. BUT THERE BEEN A PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL YET? HAS THERE BEEN A PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL OF THE CITY MANAGER AND HIS ACTIVITY AROUND THIS? I HAVE A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST WITH QUITE A FEW REPORTS OF PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST. I WOULD SUGGEST THOSE PERFORMANCE APPRAISALS NEED TO HAPPEN NOW IF THEY HAVEN'T HAPPENED AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT THEM AS VERY SERIOUS OPPORTUNITIES TO TAKE ACTION. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR HIM? I HAVE ONE. SO AN OVERSIGHT BOARD OF CONSTRUCTION AND APPEALS, AND MY UNDERSTANDING FROM MR. GILLETTE WHEN WE TALKED WITH HIM LAST WEEK, WAS THAT MANY YEARS AGO THERE WAS SUCH A CONSTRUCTION BOARD AND MR. GILLETTE HAD SERVED ON IT. AND HE'S TALKING ABOUT MAYBE TEN YEARS AGO SUCH A BOARD WOULD EXIST. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU WOULD BE THE FOLLOWING. ONE, WHO WOULD YOU SEE BEING ON THIS BOARD? >> IT WOULD BE A CROSS SECTION OF PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY. IT COULD BE DEVELOPERS, BUILDING, IT COULD BE A COMMISSIONER, IT COULD BE SOMEONE IN REAL ESTATE, IT COULD BE FOLKS THAT ARE IN THIS AREA, RESIDENTS, BUSINESSES THAT MAY BE IMPACTED SO THAT THEY CAN BE REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE AS FAR AS WHAT THEY EXPECT. >> SO HOW MANY MEMBERS WOULD YOU SEE ON THIS BOARD? >> I DON'T KNOW. SEVEN, TEN, FIVE. >> OKAY. HOW OFTEN WOULD THEY MEET? >> I CAN'T GIVE YOU THAT ANSWER. >> OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD, SIR. >> I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THEY ARE REFERRED TO COMPLAINTS AND THEN THEY CAN MEET AS A GROUP AS THEY HAVE COMPLAINTS. THE PROBLEM WITH THE PAST IS THEY DIDN'T HAVE COMPLAINTS AND THEY'RE MEETING AND WASTING THEIR TIME. BUT IF THEY HAVE COMPLAINTS, THEY SHOULD MEET MONTHLY OR MORE OFTEN, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY COMPLAINTS THEY HAVE. >> THANK YOU. >> APPRECIATE IT. >> MS. ALEXANDRA (INAUDIBLE). DID I PRONOUNCE THAT RIGHT? IS MY FRENCH GETTING BETTER? >> MY NAME IS ALEXANDRIA LASHOU. I LIVE AT 646 SPANISH WAY EAST IN FERNANDINA. I'M THE AUTHOR OF AN UPCOMING BOOK ON EMPOWERING MUNICIPAL [00:20:09] SUSTAINABILITY. I KNOW THE GREAT CITIZENRY HERE TONIGHT HAS WONDERFUL IDEAS AND THIS CONSTRUCTION REVIEW BOARD IS AN EXCELLENT ONE AND WE'LL HEAR MANY MORE GREAT IDEAS. BUT I WISH TO JUST ADDRESS THE BIG PICTURE. THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT HAS A BIG JOB. THEY NOT ONLY HAVE TO ABIDE BY CHAPTER 22 OF OUR MUNICIPAL CODES BUT ALSO ANY RELEVANT COUNTY, STATES AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS. AND THESE ARE ONLY BOUND TO GROW. I DO SUPPORT SMALL GOVERNMENT. AS A CARD-CARRYING CONSERVATIVE, I AGREE IN PRINCIPLE THAT THE GOVERNMENT THAT GOVERNS BEST GOVERNS LEAST. AND I ALSO SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESS. BUT I ALSO SUPPORT LOCAL SELF-DETERMINATION. AND THANKS TO THE GREAT DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE, WE HAVE OUR OWN BUILDING CODE AND DEPARTMENT IN THE CITIY AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR IT BECAUSE IT'S OURS. WE HAVE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DEVELOPED BY LOCAL CITIZENS AND THEY'RE UNDERGOING REVIEW BY LOCAL CITIZENS THE CHARTER HAS. THIS IS CALLED SELF-DETERMINATION BY STAKEHOLDERS. A VARIETY OF VIEWS AND INTERESTS ARE EMBEDDED IN THESE DOCUMENTS AND OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS RESPECTING THEM. WE LIVE ON A SMALL BARRIER AREA FACING CLIMATE CHANGE, WELL DOCUMENTED FOR WELL OVER A CENTURY. I'M GRATEFUL WE HAVE A BUILDING DEPARTMENT TRYING TO MAINTAIN STANDARDS FOR COMMUNITY SUSTAINABILITY AND RESILIENCE. THESE HIGH STANDARDS ARE CRITICAL FOR PREVENTING DRAMATIC INCREASE IN OUR FLOOD INSURANCE RATES. I KNOW MY COMMENTS WILL CONTRAST WITH OTHER CITIZENS AND THESE STAKEHOLDERS PLAY AN IMPORTANT PART TO KEEP TAXES DOWN AND BUSINESSES GOING. I DON'T DISRESPECT THEIR VIEWS IN ANY WAY. BUT IT DOES NOT LOWER TAXES OR HELP BUSINESSES. IT CAUSES TAXES TO RISE. THIS IS WHAT IMPACT FEES ARE FOR. I HOPE TO SPEAK FOR LOCAL CITIZENS WHO APPRECIATE THE BOUNDARIES ON DEVELOPMENT SET BY OUR CODES. OUR VOICES MATTER AND IT IS GOOD THAT WE HAVE OUR OWN CITY BUILDING DEPARTMENT TO RESPECT OUR COLLECTIVE INTERESTS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. ANY COMMENTS? SEEING NONE, VICE MAYOR CORBIN. YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, SIR. >> (INAUDIBLE). I HAD TWO QUESTIONS BUT ONE HAS BEEN PARTIALLY ANSWERED. I KNOW WE HAD A SURPLUS IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. WHAT'S THE PLANS TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT? ARE WE $10 MILLION OVER? ARE YOU PLANNING ON GIVING ANY OF THAT MONEY BACK TO THE PEOPLE YOU GOT IT FROM? AND DO YOU HAVE RECORDS? HOW FAR DO THE RECORDS GO FOR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT? DOES ANYBODY KNOW? >> I'M GOING TO LOOK AT THE CITY MANAGER BEHIND ME, VICE MAYOR. AND SO, CITY MANAGER, COULD YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION? >> THE CITY IS WORKING WITH-TO ANSWER THE SPECIFIC QUESTION, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT MONEY, THE CITY IS EXPLORING WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE UNDER THE STATE STATUTE AS TO HOW TO REDUCE THAT SURPLUS TO THE REQUIRED STATE STATUTE LEVELS WHETHER IT'S REFUNDS, REBATES, REDUCED FEES, THOSE ARE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE AND I EXPECT THE AUDITORS OFFER INSIGHT TO THAT AS PART OF THEIR PRESENTATION THIS EVENING AS WELL. >> (INAUDIBLE) THE SHORT FORM. YOU'RE LOOKING INTO IT. HOW LONG IS THAT GOING TO TAKE TO LOOK INTO IT? THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE. DO WE HAVE RECORDS TO GIVE THE PEOPLE THAT PAY THE IMPACT FEES BACK? HOW FAR BACK TO THE RECORDS GO FOR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT? >> THE STATE STATUTE GOES BACK APPROXIMATELY ONE YEAR. SO THAT'S WHERE -- >> THAT'S ALL THE RECORDS YOU'VE GOT? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY AFTER THAT. >> MR. MAYOR, AGAIN, RECORDS GO BACK FURTHER THAT THAN BUT THE STATE STATUTE ABOUT THE SURPLUS ONE YEAR. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. >> THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE, MR. CORBIN? >> WELL, I'VE GOT A MINUTE LEFT. >> YOU DO. THAT'S WHY I ASKED. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO AT LEAST ASK THE COUNTY ABOUT -- ASK THEM ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HELPING US OUT WITH THAT. SO ANYWAY, I DIDN'T GET MUCH OF AN ANSWER. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR. MR. JOHN COTNER. MR. COTNER OUTSIDE? [00:25:01] >> YEAH (INAUDIBLE). >> THANK YOU. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, SIR, PLEASE. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, JOHN COTNER, 1627 ATLANTIC AVENUE. I WANTED TO FIRST OF ALL SAY I AGREE WITH WHAT MR. GILLETTE SAID EARLIER. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A DUPLICITY OF SERVICES WHICH ECONOMICALLY DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE FROM A BUILDING CODE STANDPOINT BECAUSE WE'RE ALL WORKING FOR THE SAME BUILDING CODE. AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR PROBABLY 15 YEARS AT LEAST TO KNOW AVAIL BECAUSE TYPICALLY THE CITY AND COUNTY DON'T TALK VERY WELL TOGETHER. SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY LUCK WITH THAT ONE. WITH THAT BEING SAID, IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AND MAINTAIN OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND CITY, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO STREAMLINE THE PROCESS TO RUN THINGS CONCURRENTLY VERSUS LINEARLY. RIGHT NOW IT'S A VERY LONG SOMETIMES PAINFUL PROCESS BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH STEP A, STEP B, STEP C TO GET TO THE END PRODUCT AND ACTUALLY GET A BUILDING PERMIT. SO IT'S A VERY INEFFICIENT SYSTEM. AND THAT'S AN INTERNAL ADJUSTMENT, MANAGEMENT ADJUSTMENT. PRIVATE OUTSOURCING WOULD HELP IN TERMS OF THE FLOW, GETTING THINGS OFF THE DESK QUICKER. THERE IS A SURPLUS, AS WE JUST MENTIONED, THAT COULD EASILY HELP FUND AND EXPEDITE THAT PROCESS. THE OTHER THING THAT WE SEE A LOT OF INCONSISTENCIES, AND THAT'S AGAIN A MANAGEMENT THING. AND WE CAN'T HAVE ONE PROJECT OVER HERE DOING THIS, ONE AROUND THE CORNER DOING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. IT'S NOT (INAUDIBLE) TO THESE RESIDENTS. AND THE LAST POINT IS -- AND I MADE THIS ONE MANY TIMES -- IS PROFESSIONALISM AND COURTESY OF THE DEPARTMENT IS CRITICAL. AND RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HAVE THAT. NOW, I PERSONALLY HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS, BUT I DO HAVE A LOT OF CLIENTS. THIS MASK DRIVES ME CRAZY. I CAN'T REALLY BREATHE. WE HAVE A LOT OF CLIENTS THAT SHOW UP (INAUDIBLE) CITY STAFF. SOME OF THEM DO GREAT, BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT DON'T DO SO WELL. THEIR BEDSIDE MANNER IS NOT VERY GOOD AND SOMETIMES THEY SAY THINGS THAT IS NOT VERY PROFESSIONAL THAT DOESN'T GO APPRECIATED. SO WITH THAT, I'LL LEAVE IT. >> OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? VICE MAYOR? >> WHEN YOU'RE TALKING INCONSISTENCIES, ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE CODE IS NOT CONSISTENTLY ENFORCED? >> YES. I'M SAYING THAT, YES. >> OKAY. >> YES, SIR. >> COMMISSIONER STURGES. >> JOHN, DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOU KNOW OF INCONSISTENCIES LIKE RECENTLY, MOST RECENTLY WITHIN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF? >> YEAH, I'VE GOT SOME EXAMPLES, I COULD MAKE IT TOO OFF THE CUFF. WE WERE INVOLVED IN -- WE WERE REQUIRD TO PUT IN A HANDICAP RAMP TO THE STAGE NOW. THEN JUST RECENTLY ACROSS THE STREET, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE ENTERTAINMENT PLATFORM OR STAGE. SO DON'T WITHIN A REASONABLE TIMEFRAME, ABOUT (INAUDIBLE) YEAR. AND WE'VE HAD SOME ISSUES WITH MECHANICAL TOO ON SPECULATIVE (INAUDIBLE) PROJECTS DID PERSONALLY (INAUDIBLE) DIFFERENTLY. TYPICALLY WITH COMMERCIAL SPACES WE DON'T BUILD OUT THE MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL BECAUSE (INAUDIBLE). SO WE DO THE SHOW AND THEN ONCE THE TENANT IS ESTABLISHED, THESE TENANT PLANS ARE DONE AND THEY COME IN FOR A PERMIT. >> AND THEY HAVE A BUILD OUT. >> THEY HAVE THE BUILDOUT FOR BUILDING AND MECHANICAL. ONE PROJECT RAN THROUGH WITHOUT MECHANICAL. NEXT PROJECT WE WERE REQUIRED TO DO MECHANICAL. AND THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT HAD ALREADY BEEN PERMITTED FOR TWO YEARS. I SAID, FORGET IT, DO THE MECHANICAL. WE'VE BEEN ON IT FOR TWO YEARS. WE'VE GOT TO GO. THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF. >> THAT'S A DEFINITE INCONSISTENCY. >> PRETTY OBVIOUS. >> OKAY. THAT'S ALL I NEEDED TO KNOW. >> SURE ENOUGH, THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? (INAUDIBLE) THANK YOU. >> YOU TALKED ABOUT STREAMLINING THE PROCESS. IS THAT MORE OF THEM LEARNING THE SOFTWARE OR IS IT THE PROCESS ITSELF? >> BOTH. >> BOTH, OKAY. [00:30:04] >> THE SYSTEM THAT'S IN THE WORKS RIGHT NOW, FROM EVERYBODY I'VE TALKED TO, IS NOT WORKING WELL. YOU CAN'T GET INFORMATION. YOU CAN'T TRACK YOUR PROJECTS. (INAUDIBLE) STUFF. (INAUDIBLE) BEEN THERE FOR TWO OR THREE MONTHS. EVEN THE STATE HAS A 30-DAY MANDATE TO AT LEAST SEND US AN RFI. BUT WE'RE NOT GETTING STUFF IN TWO, THREE MONTHS. SO YES, IT'S A BROKEN SYSTEM. AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS I JUST TALKED ABOUT COULD HELP REMEDY THAT AND PUSH THINGS OUT THE DOOR, OFF THE DESK. >> YOU'RE OUTSOURCING, CORRECT. >> I'M SUGGESTING OUTSOURCING. I'M SUGGESTING CHANGE THE SYSTEM. >> I'M ALSO INTERESTED FROM THE PROFESSIONAL COURTESY. >> YES. >> WHAT ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS FOR THAT? >> (INAUDIBLE) MANAGEMENT. IF I HEAR MY STAFF INAPPROPRIATELY SAYING SOMETHING TO A CLIENT OR A CONTRACTOR OR TO THE CITY, I'M GOING TO CHASTISE THEM. I MAY RIGHT APOLOGY LETTERS. I'M NOT SEEING THAT HAPPEN. >> OKAY. >> SO BASICALLY, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE REELED IN AND TOLD, THIS IS OUR EXPECTATION OF HOW WE TREAT PEOPLE. >> HAVE YOU EVER PHONED THE CITY MANAGER AND INFORMED HIM OF AN INSTANCE OR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR? >> I'VE TALKED TO THE PREVIOUS BUILDING OFFICIAL ABOUT THIS CURRENT (INAUDIBLE). >> OKAY. >> AND QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY HAD THE PROBLEM. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE HAD THE PROBLEM. >> RIGHT, YES, SIR. THANK YOU. >> SURE ENOUGH, THANK YOU. >> APPRECIATE IT. MR. (INAUDIBLE) PALMER. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, SIR. >> MY NAME IS JOSEPH PALMER. I LIVE AT 5 ISLAND CIRCLE. I WANTED TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES TODAY TO TALK ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I AM NOT A GENERAL CONTRACTOR. I AM A SUBCONTRACTOR. SO I DON'T DEAL WITH AS MUCH OF THE PLANNING FOR BUILDING PERMITS. MY ELECTRICAL PERMITS WOULD PIGGYBACK ON PERMITS OR A MUCH EASIER TO GET PERMIT FOR A SMALL PROJECT AT YOUR HOME. I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF BUILDING OFFICIALS AND INS INSPECTORS HERE IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. QUITE FRANKLY, WE'RE PRETTY PLEASED WITH THE BUILDINGS OFFICIAL THAT WE HAVE. WE'VE HAD SOME DISAGREEMENTS WITH HIM AND WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT AND COME TO A RESOLUTION. HE'S BEEN EASY FOR ME TO GET A HOLD OF. HE HAS -- HE'S BEEN VERY PROFESSIONAL WITH ME. WHEN -- I HAVE EVEN CONVINCED HIM TO SEE THAT HE, YOU KNOW, WAS INTERPRETING A CODE INCORRECTLY A FEW TIMES AND HE WAS VERY REASONABLE ABOUT IT. HE WENT AND READ INFORMATION, TALKED TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT HE TRUSTED OPINIONS, AND WE HAVE DONE PRETTY WELL WITH HIM AND WE LIKE THE FACT THAT HE DOES HAVE A VERY STRICT INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE AND HE WILL CERTAINLY FAIL SOMETHING THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE. HE'S VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ON ELECTRIC. I CAN'T ATTEST TO THE OTHERS. I FIND HIS INDISPECTORS ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THOROUGH AND WE LIKE THAT. HE GIVES US A LEVEL PLAYING THE FIELD WITH OUR COMPETITION. AND I FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO COME HERE AND SAY THAT. >> ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU, MR. PALMER. APPRECIATE IT. FOR ANYONE STANDING OUTSIDE, THERE ARE TWO SEATS AVAILABLE. MR. MATTHEW MILLER. WELCOME, MR. MILLER. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. COULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR US PLEASE SIR AS MUCH >> MATTHEW MILLER, 416 1ST STREET. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK. I'M A PLUMBER OPERATING IN THREE STATES. THOUSANDS OF PERMITS OVER 30 YEARS. MY COMMENTS ARE NOT TOWARDS THIS ADMINISTRATION BUT PERHAPS SOMETHING GOING ON THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AND THAT IS THE STOP WORK ORDERS. MOST OF THE TIME WE ARE POSTING THOSE NOTES ON PEOPLE'S DOORS, THOSE PEOPLE ARE A CITIZEN AND WE SEEM TO RALLY AROUND THAT LIKE IT'S A RALLYING CRY THAT LAST MONTH WE PUT 15 OUT, WE PUT 12 OUT, AND WE'RE NOT REALLY USING THAT PERHAPS AS A TEACHING MOMENT TO REACH OUT. [00:35:02] IT SEEMS WE'RE ALIENATING PEOPLE FOR NO REASON. AND I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN ENFORCE THESE LAWS AND WE CAN DO IT IN A MANNER THAT WE DON'T GIVE UP ONE OUNCE OF OUR AUTHORITY, BUT I BELIEVE THAT INSTEAD OF CREATING AN ANTAGONISTIC RELATIONSHIP WHERE NONE EXISTS, THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO RALLY OUR CITIZENS AROUND US ON THERE. MANY OF THE JURISDICTIONS WHERE I OPERATE THE BUILDING OFFICIALS WEAR GUNS AND BRING BADGES OUT, AND I CAN PROMISE YOU THEY ARE NOT FOOLING AROUND. BUT THEY BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO TRY TO WORK WITH EVERYBODY INSTEAD OF SHOWING UP IN AN AUTHORITATIVE MANNER. I CAN TELL YOU THAT TO REFLECT ON HOW PUBLICLY, DARE I SAY HUMILIATING AND PEEVISH THAT IT IS TO GO TO SOMEONE'S HOUSE TO TAPE THE DOCUMENT ON THE FRONT DOOR RATHER THAN KNOCKING ON THE DOOR OR MAKING A PHONE CALL, BECAUSE MANY TIMES PEOPLE DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT WITH A LITTLE BIT OF REFLECTION ON THAT, WE MIGHT FIND A CLEAR PATH FORWARD TO TREAT OUR CITIZENS BETTER. THANK YOU, SIR. >> ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR MR. MILLER? >> I HAVE ONE. >> YES. >> HOW MANY PERMITS DO YOU PULL HERE LOCALLY? >> (INAUDIBLE). >> OKAY. AND WHERE DO YOU DO MOST OF YOUR WORK? >> WE DO LARGER PROJECTS TYPICALLY BIGGER PROJECTS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE IN FERNANDINA BEACH. IN THOSE PROJECTS WE'VE SEEN BIG PROJECTS GO SIDEWAYS, NOT SOMEONE'S ELECTRICAL PANEL OR FRONT HANDRAIL, BIG PROJECTS. AND I'VE NEVER SEEN AN ISSUE HANDLED BY CREATING AN ANTAGONISTIC RELATIONSHIP. I'M SURE THAT THOSE EXIST. EVEN JESUS COULDN'T GET ALL 12. BUT PERHAPS THERE IS A BETTER WAY THAT WE COULD RALLY PEOPLE. >> I AGREE, I AGREE. ANY NEIGHBORS HERE OR SOMETHING THAT HAVE STOP WORK ORDERS PUT ON THEM BEFORE OR YOU KNOW SOMEBODY HERE? >> IF YOU DON'T KNOW, I'M THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND ONCE IN A WHILE SOMEONE WILL HAVE A STOP WORK ORDER. AND WANT A VARIANCE. OUR BOARD DOESN'T GOVERN THAT. BUT THEY ARE JUST UPSET ABOUT HOW THEY ARE BEING TREATED. >> I GOT YOU. >> ARE YOU PUTTING WINDOWS IN YOUR HOUSE? WELL, YEAH. OKAY. WELL, LET'S PUT THEM INTO THE CODE SO BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. WE'RE JUST ALIENATING THEM RIGHT OUT OF THE BAT. >> I GOT YOU. THANK YOU. >> YES, SIR. >> ANY OTHER COMMENTS? THANK YOU, MR. MILLER. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. MRS. REGINA DUNCAN. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. >> GOOD TO SEE YOU, REGINA. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> REGINA DUNCAN, 2134 (INAUDIBLE) FERNANDINA BEACH PROPERTY OWNER, BUT TODAY I'M REPRESENTING THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. I THINK FIRST AND FOREMOST, EVERYONE SPEAKING TODAY WANTS THE SAME OUTCOME. AND THAT'S BASICALLY FOR US TO REVISIT THE MISSION STATEMENT OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WHICH CALLS UPON PROFESSIONAL, EFFICIENT, AND RESPONSIVE PUBLIC SERVICE, AND AT THE SAME TIME, CITIZEN SAFETY, QUALITY EMPLOYEES, AND RESPONSIBLE BUILDING PRINCIPLES. I DON'T THINK WE CAN ARGUE THAT. AS YOU'RE AWARE, I HAVE FOUND MYSELF TAKING ALL THESE CALLS AND COMPLAINTS FROM BUSINESSES WANTING TO GET OPEN AND HAVING CHALLENGES WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. IT'S NOT A POSITION I WANTED TO BE IN, AND I HAVE ALWAYS REACHED OUT TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND ALSO THE CITY MANAGER AND THEN WENT DOWN THE LINE OF COMMISSIONERS. IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO GET COMMUNICATION GOING BACK AND FORTH. RECENTLY DUE TO THE INCREASE, REALLY BIG INCREASE OF CALLS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED AT THE CHAMBER OFFICE, OUR BOARD ELECTED TO CREATE THE SURVEY THAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU. AND I WON'T GO INTO THAT WITH RESPONSES FROM PEOPLE. THAT KIND OF SHOWS YOU THE SENTIMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY. WHAT WAS SURPRISING TO ME IS THAT THERE WERE MORE RESIDENTS REALLY, THERE WAS PRETTY FIFTY-FIFTY, BUT WE RECEIVED A LOT OF CALLS FROM OUR RESIDENTS THAT WERE WITHIN -- JUST FR FRUSTRATED WITH THE ENTIRE PROCESS. I WAS GOING TO GO THROUGH EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE THAT LOST MONEY AND BUSINESSES AND SO FORTH, BUT I'VE HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH EACH OF YOU THROUGH THE YEARS. HERE'S WHAT THIS IS DOING TO OUR TAX BASE. [00:40:01] WHEN BUSINESSES CAN'T GET OPENED, THEY'RE DELAYED EIGHT WEEKS, PEOPLE AREN'T PAID. I CAN TELL YOU STORIES OF FAMILIES THAT WENT WITHOUT A PAYCHECK FOR EIGHT TO TEN WEEKS. WE'RE NOT COLLECTING SALES TAX. I'VE GOT TWO RIGHT NOW THAT ARE RECONSIDERING WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO OPEN BUSINESSES IN FERNANDINA BEACH AND WILL GO ELSEWHERE. TO OUR RESIDENTS, WE'RE COSTING PEOPLE MONEY WITH THESE DELAYS. SO I'M ENCOURAGED TODAY FROM WHAT I'M HEARING AND THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU'RE ASKING. AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY REALLY TO WORK TOGETHER TO IMPROVE THIS PROCESS AND TO REALLY LOOK AT IT HOLISTICALLY. AND I HOPE THAT YOU'LL CALL UPON THE CHAMBER TO BE A PARTNER IN THAT. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR DOING THE WORKSHOP TODAY. >> OKAY. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, MA'AM. APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU. >> MR. SEAN MAGILL OR MAHILL. >> MAGILL. >> IT'S MAGILL? >> YES INDEED. GOOD AFTERNOON, THANK YOU, SORRY FOR MY HANDWRITING. >> I CAN'T TELL IF THAT'S A G OR AN H. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> SEAN MAGILL, 322 (INAUDIBLE) BOULEVARD. I AM NOT A CITY RESIDENT. I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE CHAMBER BOARD OF DIRECTORS AS I'M ALSO A MEMBER OF OUR GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS COMMITTEE. I'D LIKE TO START BY THANKING YOU ALL FOR THE TIME YOU PUT INTO THIS ON ONE ON ONE CONVERSATIONS AS WELL AS HAVING THIS WORKSHOP TODAY AS WELL AS WHAT WE DO MOVING FORWARD. AND I THINK YOU CAN SEE THERE IS A LOT OF PASSION REGARDING THIS ISSUE. I'VE HAD THE BENEFIT OF STANDING OUTSIDE AND HEARING THE CONVERSATIONS ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT THERE ARE NO ISSUES AND THAT WE HAVE BIG ISSUES. AND I THINK THAT ALSO SHOWS THROUGH IN THE CHAMBER SURVEY. THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE THAT HAD GREAT SERVICE, GREAT OPPORTUNITIES AND MOVED FORWARD WITH NO ISSUES. AND YOU HAD OTHER CAN CONVERSATIONS THAT WEREN'T SO GREAT. SO I THINK THE GOAL IS, IS HOW DO WE DEVELOP A PROCESS WHERE IT'S UNIFORMLY A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE. IT'S NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE. YOU CAN'T MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY ALL THE TIME. FOR YOU FIVE HERE AND OUR CITY STAFF BEHIND ME, KNOW THAT'S NOT THE CASE. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK SOME OF THIS IS JUST DUE TO PERCEPTIONS, THAT WE START WITH THE PERCEPTION -- NOT PERCEPTION, IT'S A FACT, THAT WE ARE ALL HUMAN AND ALL HUMANS WILL MAKE A MISTAKE ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. I'VE PROBABLY MADE SEVEN OR EIGHT TODAY ALREADY. BUT OUR PERCEPTION SOMETIMES IS FROM -- AND I'M GOING TO GENERICALLY SAY THE CITY, IS THAT THE PUBLIC'S TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH SOMETHING, THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PULL SOMETHING OVER ON THE INPECK -- INSPECTOR, WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO CUT CORNERS. AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE. THERE ARE BAD APPLES OUT THERE, NO DOUBT. BUT IN GENERAL PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND DO THE JOB CORRECTLY. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE NEGATIVE PERCEPTION THAT SOMETIMES THE PUBLIC HAS OF THE CITY IS THAT THE INSPECTOR IS JUST OUT TO GET THEM AND THAT WE'VE HEARD THE (INAUDIBLE) HEARD IT OUTSIDE EVEN TODAY OF I'VE GOT TO BE CAREFUL WHAT I SAY BECAUSE THERE MIGHT BE RETALIATION OR RETRIBUTION. MIGHT NOT BE THE ACTUAL CASE, BUT THAT'S THE PERCEPTION, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT DOES NEED TO BE DEALT WITH. SO I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU GUYS AGAIN ON BEHALF OF THE CHAMBER AND OUR GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS COMMITTEE FOR THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING AND CONSIDER THOSE THINGS IN YOUR DISCUSSIONS AS TO WHAT'S THE PERCEPTION AND ON BOTH SIDES. DO A BETTER JOB - THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FOR MR. MAGILL? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU. JONATHAN ROE. WELCOME, SIR. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD PLEASE. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS JONATHAN ROE AND I LIVE AT 3058 RIVERSIDE DRIVE, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA. AND I JUST SENT A COPY -- I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYONE RECEIVED IT, BUT I DID SEND A COPY OF -- DID YOU RECEIVE IT, MR. BEAN? OKAY. [00:45:01] WHAT IT DOES, IT OUTLINES THE TOWN OF (INAUDIBLE) BACK 37 YEARS AGO REQUESTED INFORMATION FROM ME, ATTORNEY GENERAL. AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAME FORWARD AND GAVE THEM THE INFORMATION NEEDED. AND BASED ON THE ARTICLE I'VE READ IN THE NEWS READER OPINING ON WHETHER ALL THESE THINGS ALLEGED ARE TRUE, BUT THEY'RE VERY DISTURBING, PEOPLE, INSPECTORS ILLEGALLY, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY, AGAINST THE FLORIDA CONSTITUTION AND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, GOING INTO PEOPLE'S HOMES TO INSPECT. AND THAT IS THE FORMULA FOR SOME VERY TERRIBLE THINGS TO HAPPEN. GUNS COULD BE PULLED, PEOPLE COULD DIE. ANY SURPLUS THAT MIGHT BE G GARGA GARNERED FROM ILLEGAL SEARCHES AND SEIZURES WOULD QUICKLY VANISH FOR THE CITY. I HAVE A COUPLE OF CLIENTS THAT HAVE APPROACHED ME. AT THIS TIME THEY WISH TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS BECAUSE THEY FEEL AS THOUGH THEY'VE BEEN TARGETED SOMEWHAT. AND BASED ON SOME INFORMATION I HAD, I NEED TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH, IT SOUNDS POSSIBLY (INAUDIBLE). THAT BEING THE CASE, BASED ON THE ARTICLE AND THINGS THAT ARE BEING SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH AND INVESTIGATION THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY. AND IT WAS VERY SPECIFIC THE TOWN OF MEDLEY. AND WHAT IT SAID WAS IT SAID THAT THERE ARE SOME LIMITED EXCEPTION TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE WARRANT. AND THEN IT GOES ON AND IT SAYS, BUT NO SUCH STATUTORY -- STATUTORY -- STATUTORY AUTHORITY FOR WARRANTLESS SEARCHES APPEARS TO EXIST WITH REGARD TO LOCAL CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARDS OR CODE INSPECTORS. THEREFORE, THE ADMINISTRATIVE SEARCHES OR INSPECTIONS UNDER CONSIDERATION MAY NOT BE CONSTITUTIONALLY CONDUCTED WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE OWNER OR THE OPERATOR OR OCCUPANT OF THE AFFECTED PREMISES OR WITHOUT A DULY ISSUED SEARCH WARRANT. SO THAT'S WHAT IS REQUIRED. I THINK THE CITY NOW THAT THEY'VE HEARD THESE COMPLAINTS AND SEE JUST HOW UP IN ARMS EVERYONE IS, THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY HAS TO BE LOOKED INTO BECAUSE IF WE HAD A POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT'S RUNNING ROUGHSHOD ON PEOPLE'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A TRIAL GOING ON RIGHT NOW WHERE A MAN DIED DUE TO A CHOKEHOLD. WELL, THE POLICE ARE THERE TO PROTECT AND SERVE, BUT YOU DON'T GET TO PUT THE KNEE ON THE NECK AND KILL SOMEONE. AND THE SAME THING HERE. WE CAN'T HAVE INSPECTORS UNCONSTITUTIONALLY GOING INTO PEOPLE'S HOMES AND DOING THESE TYPE OF ACTIONS THAT CAN RESULT IN ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR MR. ROE? >> YES. ARE YOU ACCUSING THE CITY OF CORRUPTION OR CRIMINAL ACTS? >> I SAID I DID NOT PASS ON THE MATTER OF THE TRUTH OF THOSE ASSERTIONS. >> SO HAVE YOU REPORTED ANY OF THESE TO THE STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. >> I DON'T HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE. THESE WERE THINGS, ARTICLES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP. >> THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY A QUESTION. >> SURE. >> REGARDING THIS ISSUE. ALL OF US HAVE RECEIVED ACCOUNTS (INAUDIBLE) EMAIL THROUGH AFFECTED PARTIES SAYING THEIR PROPERTY WAS VIOLATED BY BUILDING DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS. SO PLEASE WALK US THROUGH THE LEGALITY OF A BUILDING DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL GOING -- WHAT ARE -- WHAT POWERS DO THEY HAVE AND WHAT POWERS DO THEY NOT HAVE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY? >> SO ASSUMING THAT THERE IS A PERMIT, I THINK, THAT SOMEBODY HAS PULLED A PERMIT, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD SOME OF THIS TODAY, IF SOMEBODY'S PULLED A PERMIT, THAT SOMEHOW GIVES THE BUILDING OFFICIAL SOME ADDITIONAL RIGHT, SOMETHING. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MORE OF RIGHTS THAN A POLICE OFFICER OR YOU OR I THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF WARRANT TO GO INSIDE OF SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY. SO -- AND I HAVE SPOKEN WITH OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL ABOUT THIS. AND I KNOW THAT HE AND HIS STAFF ARE CLEAR ON WHAT THE LAW IS. SO I WOULD WANT TO HEAR OUT THESE ACCUSATIONS. MR. ROE KNOWS HOW TO CONTACT ME. HE CAN SIT DOWN WITH ME AND WE CAN HAVE CONFIDENTIAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHO HIS CLIENTS MIGHT BE AND THE ADDRESSES AND CIRCUMSTANCES ARE. >> YOU HAVE RECEIVED -- >> I HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE LETTER. >> I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT IT. >> SIR, SIR. >> YOU WILL HAVE YOUR CHANCE TO SPEAK. [00:50:02] >> YOU HAVE NOT OFFICIALLY RECEIVED ANY COMPLAINTS? >> I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE CITY MANAGER RECEIVED A LETTER FROM MR. ROE AND I WAS COPIED ON IT. I HAVE NOT RECEIVED IT. I'M SURE IT WILL COME. >> (INAUDIBLE) WHETHER A PERMIT OR NOT (INAUDIBLE). >> IT'S WHERE ON THE PROPERTY? SOMEBODY'S FRONT DOOR, OKAY, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL CAN GO TO SOMEBODY'S FRONT DOOR AND KNOCK. THEY CAN APPROACH SOMEBODY ON THE PROPERTY. THEY CANNOT GO INTO THE BACKYARD, OPEN THE FENCE, WALK AROUND THE BACK, PEER IN WINDOWS. THAT IS NOT ALLOWED WITHOUT -- THERE IS A SPECIAL KIND OF WARRANT CALLED AN INSPECTION WARRANT. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING AS A SEARCH WARRANT UNDER CRIMINAL LAW, BUT IT'S THE PROCEDURE. A JUDGE GRANTS THOSE WARRANTS. AND SO OUR INSPECTORS AND BUILDING OFFICIALS ARE NOT -- ARE NOT -- ARE NOT PERMITTED TO GO INSIDE UNLESS THEY ARE INVITED INSIDE. NOW A CONTRACTOR THAT'S WORKING ON THE PROPERTY CAN INVITE AN INSPECTOR INSIDE. A PROPERTY OWNER, A TENANT, BASICALLY ANYBODY THAT CAN ACCEPT SERVICE OF PROCESS THAT'S OVER THE AGE OF 15 CAN INVITE SOMEBODY INSIDE OF A STRUCTURE. AND THAT INCLUDES THE GARAGE. THERE IS SOMETHING, THE STRUCTURE AND THE CURTILAGE, WHICH IS AROUND THE STRUCTURE, THE BACKYARD, THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT WALKING UP TO THE FRONT DOOR, ONE HAS GREATER RIGHTS TO GO TO SOMEBODY'S FRONT DOOR AND JUST KNOCK ON THE FRONT DOOR. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? >> YES, MA'AM, IT DOES. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. MR. JOHN (INAUDIBLE). WELCOME, SIR. IF YOU WILL STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. >> YES, SIR. MY NAME IS JOHN DODD, 2775 RACHEL AVENUE, FERNANDINA BEACH. TO FURTHER THE RECENT DISCUSSION, I HAVE OBSERVED STEVE BECKMAN AND ONE OF HIS EMPLOYEES DRIVE DOWN (INAUDIBLE), PULL OVER WITHOUT A BLINKER IN OBSERVANCE OF A TRUCK AND TRAILER (INAUDIBLE) THE LAW SAYS HE'S REQUIRED TO SHOW HIS CREDENTIALS AND KNOCK TO REQUEST ENTRY. IT DIDN'T LOOK GOOD TO ME. >> WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN, SIR? >> APPROXIMATELY APRIL -- MARCH -- OR MARCH 3RD, IN THAT VICINITY OF TIME. >> OKAY. DO YOU RECALL THE ADDRESS? >> NO, I COULD PROBABLY SINGLE IT OUT IF I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AGAIN. >> YOU WERE DRIVING BEHIND THEM? >> YES AND THEY SPRINTED IN THE BACKYARD RIGHT AWAY. THERE WAS NO- >> DID YOU STOP AND OBSERVE IT. >> I DID. I PULLED OVER AND LOOKED. SAW THEM RUN AROUND THE BACK CORNER AND I KEPT GOING. >> THANK YOU, CONTINUE. >> MY THREE MINUTES START NOW OR AM I OFF? >> NO, GO AHEAD. I'LL GIVE YOU (INAUDIBLE). SINCE I ASKED QUESTIONS. >> I'LL RESTART. >> YEAH, GO AHEAD, MR. DODD. >> I'M HERE TO APPEAL EMOTIONALLY TO YOU FOLKS, PLEASE. I HAVE HID IN MY SHELL IN THE PAST YEARS FOR THIS TOWN. I TRY TO DESIGN NICE HOUSES FOR PEOPLE. I'M NOW IN THE THROES OF MY OWN REMODEL AND I'VE VINDICTIVELY BEEN OVERENFORCED ON MY BUILDING AND IN 20 YEARS I HAVE NEVER COMPLAINED OR VOICED AN OPINION OR APPEARED IN A PUBLIC FORUM ABOUT ANYTHING. MY EMOTIONS HAVE BEEN SO DRAGGED OUT BY THIS AND THE ANXIETY WITH ALL THE JOBS I HELP PEOPLE WITH AND MY OWN HOUSE. THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY IN THE REVIEW WITH THIS BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THEY COME BACK TIME AND TIME AGAIN WITH ADDITIONAL DEMANDS AND PROBLEMS AND IT HAS BECOME EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC. THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY TO THE DIALOGUE. IT'S WE FIND SOMETHING ONE TIME. WE COME BACK, FIND SOMETHING NEXT. COME BACK AGAIN, WE FIND SOMETHING THE NEXT TIME. AND I HAVE GOTTEN TO THE POINT NOW ON MY HOUSE AND NOW THAT I'M SPEAKING OUT, I AM EXTREMELY CONCERNED ABOUT THE VIN DICK -- VINDICTIVE NATURE. I AM APPEALING TO YOU GUYS TO PLEASE PROTECT US. WE ARE YOUR COMMUNITY. WE ARE NOT AN ENEMY OF ANY TYPE. AND HONESTLY, IT FEELS LIKE I AM AT WAR HERE IN AN EMOTIONAL AND INTELLECTUAL WAR WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I WORKED IN 10 OR 12 MUNICIPALITIES FOR 20 YEARS AND I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED HING L. THIS IS -- IT'S INSANE THE LEVEL OF SCRUTINY AND OVERENFORCEMENT, [00:55:03] AND ZEALOUSNESS AND THE SMIRKING AS LAWS ARE APPLIED. I DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAS BEEN IGNORED FOR SO LONG. WHY CAN'T YOU HELP US? WE NEED A NEW BUILDING DEPARTMENT. >> WHEN DID THIS START? >> IN THE PAST YEAR, IT HAS GOTTEN WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE. WHEN IT STARTED, I WAS VERY NICE WITH OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL AND TRIED TO MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP. AND I HAVE WATCHED THINGS GO DOWNHILL WITH THIS SCRUTINY AND OVERENFORCEMENT THAT HAS BEEN INSANE. I'VE BEEN TOLD I NEED TO RIP OUT A SHOWER IN MY HOUSE BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE A QUARTER INCH TOO SMALL. A QUARTER INCH IS WHAT BROUGHT ME HERE. THAT'S INSANE. IT'S GOING TO COST ME MORE THAN A THOUSAND DOLLARS TO REFRAME THE SHOWER SO I CAN GET IT THIS MUCH BIGGER. IS THAT REASONABLE? >> IS THAT THE WALL? >> THAT'S MY SHOWER IN MY NEW RENOVATION AT MY HOUSE. >> OKAY, IS THE WALL OR SHOWER OFF? >> I PICKED THE TILE THAT IS GOING TO A QUARTER INCH BIGGER THAN I WOULD HAVE EVER GUESSED. SO IT'S GOING TO BE TOO SMALL WHEN I PUT MY TILE ON. >> THANK YOU, SIR. >> MR. DODD, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US TONIGHT. WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR 20 YEARS. >> YES, SIR. >> WOULD YOU SAY THIS IS THE WORST IT HAS EVER BEEN? >> I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS ANY MUNICIPALITY EVER. I HAVE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE STATE NOW. I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED ANYTHING LIKE THIS. I HAVE NEVER HEARD SUCH A LEVEL OF COMPLAINT WITH EVERY CONTRACTOR I DEALT WITH. I FEEL ABANDONED HERE. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GUARD US. YOU'RE OUR SHEPHERDS. OUR THROATS ARE OUT. AND I AM VERY WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON MY JOB NOW WHEN THEY COME BACK, AND THEY HAVE BEEN THERE A DOZEN TIMES, THEY'RE GOING TO FIND MORE PROBLEMS THEY HAVEN'T PICKED UP ON AND IT HAPPENS OVER AND OVER AGAIN ON MY JOBS AND JOBS I DRAW FOR THE OTHER WONDERFUL PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY. >> THANK YOU, SIR. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS MR. DODD? LET ME SAY THE FOLLOWING TO YOU, MR. DODD. ONE, I AM CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR PLIGHT AND SYMPATHETIC TO YOUR PLIGHT. NUMBER TWO, IF YOU FEEL ANY VINDICTIVENESS, LET ME SAY THAT SLOWLY, GOING FORWARD, THE CITY MANAGER IS RIGHT BEHIND YOU. THE CITY MANAGER DIRECTS THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. PLEASE, THE CITY MANAGER'S TELEPHONE NUMBER IS PUBLIC. PLEASE NOTIFY THE CITY MANAGER IMMEDIATELY. >> OKAY. >> OKAY? >> I WILL BE GLAD TO REPORT -- NOTIFY YOU, SIR. I DO NOT HAVE A BELIEF THAT YOU WILL BE ANYTHING FOR ME BASED ON YOUR POSITIVE RESPONSE AND ENDORSEMENT OF THIS BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I THINK IT'S SHAMEFUL. >> MR. DODD, I'M TRYING TO -- [CROSSTALK] >> I APPRECIATE IT. >> SEND REPORTS TO THE COMMISSION (INAUDIBLE). SO IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, PLEASE NOTIFY THE CITY MANAGER. >> I WILL DO SO. >> IF THAT DOES NOT WORK, IF YOU DO NOT FEEL RELIEF, YOU (INAUDIBLE) WITH US. ALL RIGHT, SIR? >> ALL RIGHT. . >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, SIR. >> THANK YOU. >> I THOUGHT I HEARD A CLICK OF THE LIGHT, BUT I GUESS I DIDN'T. MR. JOHN PULLMAN. WELCOME, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> JOHN HILLMAN, 1001 WHITE STREET, FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA. I'M HERE ON MY 25TH ANNIVERSARY. I'M NOT HERE FOR ANY GREAT JOY OF THIS. AND CERTAINLY, MR. DODD, I'VE LIVED HERE THREE YEARS. I TRY TO KEEP MY HEAD DOWN AND RUN (INAUDIBLE) THE BEST OF MY ABILITY. I WORK WITH FIVE BUILDERS THERE, 15 ARCHITECTS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND WE'RE BUILDING SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THAT I THINK WILL BE ADDITIVE TO THIS COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. WE'VE GOT 113 PROJECT AND ABOUT $220 MILLION TO THE PROPERTY TAX COFFERS FOR THE CITY. IT'S A LITTLE MORE THAN (INAUDIBLE). I SAY THAT BECAUSE AT SOME LEVEL EVERY INTERACTION I'VE HAD WITH MR. BECKMAN, KELLY GIBSON, ANDRE (INAUDIBLE) AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A HEAVY FOCUS ON THE AFTER PERMIT INSPECTION PROCESS. I WOULD LIKE TO BRING THIS UP A COUPLE LEVELS BECAUSE PART OF THE ANGST AND UNCERTAINTY IS LACK OF EDUCATION MOST OF THE PUBLIC HAS ABOUT HOW TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT. WELL, I'LL SHARE IT. YOU WALK IN WITH YOUR PLANS, GETS OVER TO MS. GIBSON'S OFFICE. IF YOU LOOK AT AN AVERAGE TIME, THAT MIGHT BE 60 TO 70 DAYS, HALF OF THE TIME IS IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND MR. (INAUDIBLE)'S TIME. THAT ADDS POTENTIALLY A FRUSTRATION THAT SOMEHOW THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS NOT DOING THEIR JOB. I'M NOT HERE TO BE ON A SIDE. I'M HERE TO JUST EXPLAIN A [01:00:01] PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT WE SEE AT CRANE ALLEN. SO WHEN PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THE BUILDING PROCESS, THEY SHOULD REALLY THINK ABOUT WHO ALL IS INVOLVED AND IF I'M Y'ALL, I WOULD WANT TO CREATE SOME BENCHMARKS THAT WOULD SAY WHAT IS THE AVERAGE TIME TO GET A PERMIT IN THE CITY IN WHO COULD ANSWER THAT? PROBABLY NONE OF YOU KNOW. I WOULD GUESS IT'S THE 60S OR 70S. WE'VE HAD MOMENTS WHERE IT'S BEEN IN THE HUNDREDS. ONE THING I'LL PROBABLY SAY THAT EVERYBODY WILL AGREE WITH IS WE'RE IN A TIME WHERE NOTHING EVER HAS BEEN LIKE THIS BEFORE, RIGHT? I WENT THROUGH AN HVC SITUATION WHERE I HAD A $15,000 WIDTH BECAUSE I HAD TO WAIT SIX WEEKS TO GET THROUGH. I'M NOT HERE SOME BLEEDING HEART FOR MR. BECKMAN. BUT I'M TELL YOU, MR. BECKMAN, YOU'VE GOT A NEW FLOODPLAIN. YOU'VE GOT A NEW PROCESS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO USE TO UNWIND A 20-YEAR PROCESS, NOW YOU GO ELECTRONIC. THE FIRST PHASE IN THE ELECTRONIC SYSTEM WAS TERRIBLE ABOUT COMPMUNICATION. YOU'VE INVESTED IN THE PROCESS AND MAKE IT BETTER. DON'T CHANGE A THING. KEEP IT GOING. I'M SORRY PEOPLE ARE HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THIS. BUT FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW, THEY'VE BEEN TRANSPARENT AND FORTHRIGHT AND COME IN AND TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES AND WE'VE HAD A VERY PROFESSIONAL CONVERSATION. WE DON'T GET OUR PERMITS ANY FASTER BUT WE KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE EXPECTATIONS AND WE'RE GETTING BETTER EVERY TIME WE DO IT. THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT. >> WHAT'S YOUR FIRST NAME AGAIN? >> SURE, JOHN HILLMAN. >> ON A WHOLE YOU'RE SAYING THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN GO GOOD OTHER THAN IT'S SLOW? >> YES. >> THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN A ROUNDABOUT WAY? >> EVERY BUILDING DEPARTMENT TAKES TIME. BETWEEN THE PANDEMIC AND CHANGING OUT THE COMMUNICATION SYSTEM THAT'S GOING TO BE ALL ELECTRONIC, THAT TAKES TIME. IT COULD TAKE YEARS TO GET THAT FULLY PLAYED OUT. >> OKAY. BUT YOU HAVEN'T FELT ANY DIFFERENT APPEALS OR ANY DIFFERENT SCRUTINY IN YOUR JOBS OR WITH YOUR CONTRACTORS, ANY SPECIFIC (INAUDIBLE) CALLED AND SAID, THIS IS RIDICULOUS, THIS IS CRAZY, THIS IS NUTS? >> NOPE. IF ANYTHING, I THINK ALL FIVE OF MY BUILDERS WOULD SAY HE'S WILLING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION TO DISCUSS WHAT THE VIOLATION AND REMEDY IS AND WE'VE WORKED THROUGH IT TOGETHER. AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK ON THE SAME PAGE HERE. NO BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO BE PERFECT. AND THEY'RE PROBABLY NEXT TO THE PARKING ATTENDANT LADY OR GUY THAT GIVES YOU A TICKET, THEY'RE PROBABLY THE SECOND MOST HATED PERSON IN THE CITY JURISDICTION. MR. BECKMAN TO ME IS DOING HIS JOB IN THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY. HE'S THE THIRD I'VE HAD IN THREE YEARS. I'VE HAD FOR TWO YEARS AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM STAY HOWEVER LONG HE DECIDES TO STAY. >> THANK YOU. >> TWO QUICK QUESTIONS FOR YOU. >> SURE. >> FIRST OF ALL, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, THANK YOU FOR WITH US AT THIS TIME. WE APPRECIATE THAT. >> YOU CAN TELL MY WIFE THAT. >> MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION IS YOU INTERACT WITH US. DO YOU EVER INTERACT WITH THE COUNTY IN TERMS OF THEIR BUILDING DEPARTMENT? >> I DON'T HAVE A NEED TO. >> I UNDERSTAND. >> WE'RE PART OF THE CITY. >> THANK YOU, MR. HILLMAN? (INAUDIBLE). WELCOME, MA'AM. IF YOU'LL STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> MY NAME IS MEYER BURTONS AND I LIVE AT 2129 FIRST AVE. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M A MEMBER OF (INAUDIBLE) AND INTERN AT NASSAU COUNTY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. I'M DELIGHTED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TODAY AS I UNDERSTAND THE PRIVILEGE. TO GIVE A BIT OF CONTEXT WHY I'M PERSONALLY AFFECTED, MY FAMILY WERE ONCE BUSINESS OWNERS ON AMELIA ISLAND. WE MADE THE DECISION TO MOVE FROM NEW YORK CITY TO THE COMMUNITY THAT WE AMELIA ISLAND TO BE. WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE AN EXCITING NEW ADVENTURE IN PARADISE QUICKLY TURNED INTO ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS I'VE WATCHED MY PARENTS DO. WE WERE QUICKLY ACCUSTOMED TO THE REALITY OF OWNING A BUSINESS IN A SMALL TOWN AND THE DEDICATION REQUIRED. THEY WATCHED AS FELLOW BUSINESS OWNERS GOT CRUSHED NOT ONLY BENEATH THE WEIGHT OF AN UNSTABLE ECONOMY AND THE HANDS OF THE CITY AND I WATCHED THIS SLOWLY CRUSH THEM AS WELL. I FIND MYSELF IN AWE OF THE KNOWLEDGE I'M PROVIDING WITH EVERY DAY HAVING THE PRIVILEGE [01:05:04] OF WORKING AT THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. SEEING THE OVERFLOWING EVIDENCE OF AN UNHAPPY COMMUNITIES, IT MAKES ME THINK OF EVERY TIME ME AND MY FRIENDS FANTASIZED ABOUT ONE DAY COMING BACK TO THE ISLAND AND RAISING FAMILIES OF OUR OWN. THE CITIZENS OF FERNANDINA BEACH WORK MUCH TOO HARD WHILE THE STUDENTS ARE WORKING HARDER FOR ITS BRIGHTER FUTURE. I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE WORKING INCREDIBLY HARD FOR OUR COMMUNITY BUT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SHARING THEIR GRIEVANCES DESERVE NOT ONLY TO BE HEARD BUT LISTENED TO. ONE OF THE MANY THINGS I APPRECIATE ABOUT THE CHAMBER IS THAT THEY DON'T JUST GIVE YOUR THEIR CONCLUSIONS. THEY DON'T PREACH FROM ON HIGH MAKING DECISIONS TO PROFIT THEIR PERSONAL GAIN. INSTEAD (INAUDIBLE) THEY CLEARLY AND SKILLFULLY PROVIDE YOU WITH THE INFORMATION AND DATA YOU NEED TO RECTIFY PROBLEMS GOING ON IN YOUR CITY TODAY. SURE THESE MAY BE RECOMMENDATIONS AND SUGGESTIONS BUT THEY SHOW YOU HOW THEY CAME TO THE CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE THEY KNEW THE TRUTH IS IN THE DATA THAT'S TRULY IMPORTANT. THEIR ONLY AGENDA IS TO POSITIVELY INFLUENCE THE BUSINESSES IN THIS COMMUNITY BY KEEPING YOU INFORMED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> (INAUDIBLE) THANK YOU YOU NAILED YOUR SPEECH. >> THANK YOU. >> TRACY (INAUDIBLE). PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD PLEASE. >> TRACY WHIPPLE, 4003 NORTH 4TH STREET FERNANDINA BEACH. IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE WHY THERE ARE A LOT OF PISSED OFF PEOPLE HERE TODAY UNFORTUNATELY. MY JOB IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FIRST ONES THAT RECEIVED A STOP WORK ORDER. I MOVED HERE A FEW YEARS AGO AND WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE, IT SEEMED LIKE I WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND QUALIFIED WORK TO START A REMODEL ON MY HOUSE, BUT THAT'S WHEN EVERYTHING STARTED EXPLODING HERE. AT A CERTAIN POINT, I COULDN'T EVEN GET PEOPLE TO SHOW UP TO GIVE ME AN ESTIMATE BECAUSE IT WAS A RELATIVELY SMALL PROJECT. WHEN YOU HAVE SO MUCH MONEY BEING SPENT ON REALLY LARGE PROJECTS, VERY HIGH-END CONSTRUCTION AND YOU'RE JUST A SMALL FISH, YOU END UP WITH A LOT OF BOTTOM FEEDERS THAT ARE WILLING TO DO THE WORK FOR YOU. SO WHEN I FINALLY DID FIND SOMEONE, I ENDED UP GETTING COMPLETELY SCREWED. HE DID SHODDY WORK. AND THAT'S WHY THERE WAS A STOP WORK ORDER. SO I CAN ONLY SPEAK TO MY EXPERIENCE AND IT HAS -- THAT WAS ACTUALLY NOVEMBER OF 2019. AND I JUST NOW GOT ELECTRICITY BACK. I HAVE HAD TO LIVE OFF THE ISLAND, STILL PAY FOR A MORTGAGE HERE AND PAY MORE EVERYTHING ELSE BECAUSE IT'S STILL A SMALL PROJECT SO TO SPEAK BUT I'VE LOST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO REPLACE SHODDY WORK BECAUSE I HAD SOMEBODY WORKING FOR ME THAT WAS DOING THINGS ON THE DOWN LOW. AND STEVE BECKMAN CAME IN AND IT HASN'T BEEN PLEASANT. I GUESS IN RETROSPECT I'M ACTUALLY HAPPY HE DID SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT WITH A LOT OF REALLY BAD WORK. I GUESS I WORK HERE ON THE ISLAND AS WELL, AND SO I ACTUALLY KNOW A LOT OF THE PEOPLE BY THEIR NAMES. THEY PROBABLY DON'T KNOW WHO I AM. WHAT I DO EVERY DAY AT WORK, I PROVIDE EXTREMELY EXCELLENT COMMUNICATION WITH OUR CLIENTS AND CUSTOMERS. I MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AT ALL TIMES. I DO THINK THAT DOES LACK HERE. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WAYS TO IMPROVE THE SYSTEM. AND I CAN CERTAINLY SPEAK TO THAT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE. BUT I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF GROWING PAINS HERE BECAUSE I THINK WE WERE REALLY UNPREPARED. A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE ARE BIG NAMES AND DO GOOD WORK AND PROBABLY AREN'T USED TO BEING QUESTIONED AND I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT LIKE I SAID, THERE'S NO TIME FOR PEOPLE TO DO SMALL JOBS LIKE MINE. BUT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO REMEMBER THE GOVERNMENT IS THE PEOPLE AND WE HAVE TO HAVE AN OPEN CONDUIT OF RESPECTFUL COMMUNICATION. AND APPRECIATE YOU ACTUALLY HAVING THIS HERE. I WANT TO SAY THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT I HEARD SOMEBODY SPEAKING. I THINK IT WAS MR. MILLER THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT ESSENTIALLY KEEPING YOUR REPUTATION. AND A BAD REPUTATION WILL ALWAYS MEET YOU AT THE FRONT DOOR. SO THAT'S ABOUT ALL I HAVE TO SAY. LIKE I SAID, I CAN'T SPEAK TO ANYBODY ELSE'S CONCERNS BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT -- IN THE END I WAS PROBABLY HAPPY IT GOT SHUT DOWN. >> THANK YOU, MA'AM. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU, MA'AM. >> THANK YOU. >> EMILY BAUMGARDNER. >> MY NAME IS EMILY BAUMGARDNER. [01:10:21] I JUST WANT TO READ OVER SOME OF THESE. I'M NOT A GOOD SPEAKER. I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU WHAT RESIDENTS AND TAXPAYERS OF THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH ARE SAYING ABOUT THE BUILDING PERMITTING PROCESS. THE COMMENTS ARE COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE CHAMBER'S RECENTLY PUBLIC SURVEY THAT WE DID. NUMBER ONE IS STOP LOOKING FOR WAYS TO FINE HOMEOWNERS WHO ARE TRYING TO PERFORM REGULAR MAINTENANCE AND KEEP THEIR HOMES IN GOOD WORKING ORDER. NUMBER TWO, AS A RESIDENT, I WAS NOT INFORMED ABOUT MY PROJECT REQUIRING A PERMIT. NUMBER THREE, THE BUILDING INSPECTOR OFFICE NEEDS TO RESPECT THE HOMEOWNERS IN A GREATER WAY AND EASE THE PRESSURE POINT PUT ON THE CONTRACTORS. FERNANDINA BEACH WOULD BE BETTER SERVED (INAUDIBLE) ENFORCING EXISTING VIOLATIONS RATHER THAN MAKING IT DIFFICULT FOR RESPONSIBLE HOMEOWNERS TO IMPROVE THEIR HOMES. THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO BE A RESOURCE FOR CITIZEN CONTRACTORS AND QUIT TREATING CONTRACTORS LIKE CRIMINALS. UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE THERE TO HELP THE HOMEOWNER OR TAXPAYER VERSUS AN ADVERSARIAL POSITION. WITH THESE COMMENTS, I BELIEVE IT'S TIME FOR THE ACTION TO (INAUDIBLE) RESIDENTS. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME COME AND SPEAK. >> THANK YOU, MA'AM. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. >> MR. RON FLICK. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD PLEASE, SIR. >> YES, SIR, RON FLICK, 961687 GATEWAY BOULEVARD, SUITE 201, FERNANDINA BEACH. THAT'S MY BUSINESS. AND I LIVE AT 86119 SHELTER ISLAND DRIVE, FERNANDINA BEACH. I COME HERE AS MAYBE SOME OTHERS DO, WE ALL HAVE THIS PERCEIVED FEAR OF REPRISAL. AND IF YOU DON'T -- AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT OR YOU'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED IT, I'M PERSONALLY EXPERIENCING IT AND I'VE BEEN PUTTING UP WITH IT FOR WELL OVER A YEAR. WELL, I'VE WRITTEN A CLAIM TO THIS COMMISSION. IT'S AMAZING TO ME THAT AS A CONCERNED CITIZEN, A BUSINESS PERSON IN THIS COMMUNITY, UNDER A PERMIT, HOPEFULLY BRINGING A GOOD THING TO THIS JURISDICTION, I TRY TO COMMUNICATE IT BY HAVING DIALOGUE WITH COMMISSIONERS. I TRY TO HAVE DIALOGUE WITH BUILDING OFFICIALS. I TRY TO HAVE DIALOGUE WITH PEOPLE. BUT WHEN DIALOGUE'S TURNED OFF BECAUSE THE CITY STAFF AND THE CITY ATTORNEY ISSUES A DIRECTIVE NOT TO SPEAK TO MR. FLICK BECAUSE OF A POTENTIAL LAWSUIT, I WOULD TELL YOU EVERY DAY OF OUR LIFE IS A POTENTIAL LAWSUIT. IF YOU CAN'T HAVE DIALOGUE, YOU CAN'T COMMUNICATE AND FIX PROBLEMS. ITEM ONE. ITEM TWO, I CHALLENGE THIS FORUM. I THINK THIS FORUM IS INADEQUATE. I THINK A CONSTRUCTION ADVISORY BOARD IS LONG OVERDUE. IT'S STIPULATED IN THE STATUTE, TELLS YOU HOW TO DO IT, WHEN YOU DO IT, WHY YOU OUGHT TO DO IT, AND WHO OUGHT TO BE THERE. VERY IMPORTANT. AND YOU MAY HAVE AVOIDED THIS EXCESSIVE FEE EXTORTION THAT'S TAKEN PLACE FOR YEARS IN THIS CITY AND IT'S TAKEN PLACE ON MORE THAN JUST ME, BUT YOU ARE NOW AS A CITY AND A JURISDICTION RELYING ON MONEY THAT'S NOT RIGHTFULLY YOURS, THAT'S BEEN BILLED TO PEOPLE OF WHICH THE STATUTE FORBIDS YOU TO DO IT, BUT YOU STILL DO IT. NOT YOU PERSONALLY. THAT TO ME RAISES THE QUESTION OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. IN ORDER TO RESOLVE IT, I THINK I'VE GOT ONE MINUTE, OKAY, IN ORDER TO RESOLVE IT, I DO THINK THE CONSTRUCTION ADVISORY BOARD ROLE IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE PROBABLY THE BEST THING IN THE INTERIM PROCESS. BUT I ALSO LOOK AT THE OTHER WAY OF HOW MUCH IT COSTS US TO OPERATE A BUILDING DEPARTMENT IN THIS CITY VERSUS ALL THE OTHER COUNTIES AND JURISDICTIONS I'VE WORKED IN IN THIS STATE AND MANY OTHER STATES. I PAY SEVEN TIMES THE MONEY TO DO CODE ENFORCEMENT, JUST CODE ENFORCEMENT. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT IMPACT FEES. THAT'S ANOTHER WHOLE GAME. CODE ENFORCEMENT IS SEVEN TIMES MORE IN THIS JURISDICTION TO DO A COMMERCIAL PROJECT. IT'S ABSURD. [01:15:04] AND I GET FAR LESS SERVICE BECAUSE I PAID A PRIVATE PERSON TO PROVIDE ME A SERVICE. AND GUESS WHAT. EVERYBODY SAYS PRIVATELY THINGS DON'T WORK. PRIVATE SERVICE IS STILL ONE-FOURTH THE COST OF WHAT IT COSTS YOU IN THE CITY OF FERNANDINA BEACH. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU SIR. TRACY STOCKDALE. WELCOME, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. >> TRACY STOCKDALE, BOARD OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. MY ADDRESS IS 44096 WOODLAND CIRCLE IN (INAUDIBLE). THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING US TO SPEAK TODAY. I JUST WANTED TO SAY A FEW THINGS ON BEHALF OF THE CHAMBER AND OUR ROLE THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO PLAY AND A FEW THINGS THAT WE DID DO AND A FEW THINGS THAT WE ARE NOT. WHEN THIS CAME UP AND BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION, BROUGHT TO THE BOARD'S ATTENTION, OUR IMMEDIATE REACTION WAS LET'S PUT FACTS BEHIND IT. SO WE PUT TOGETHER A SURVEY. I WILL TELL YOU, I'M EXTREMELY PROUD OF THE BOARD AND THE STAFF OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. IN NO WAY DID WE SINGLE OUT AN INDIVIDUAL. WE HAVE GREAT PRIDE IN OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR US WAS TO PUT FACTS ABOUT IT. AND THAT WAS OUR INTENTION AND I THINK WE BROUGHT THAT OUT. I DO WANT TO BRING TO YOUR POINT THAT PERHAPS HASN'T BEEN MENTIONED IS THAT WE'RE NOT DONE DOING A SURVEY. WE'RE NOT (INAUDIBLE) DONE. WE'RE HERE TO WORK WITH YOU AND WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY. IF WE NEEDED TO RESURVEY, WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO DO THAT. AND I WILL PLEDGE THE STAFF AND THE BOARD THAT WE WILL DO THAT AND WORK IN ANY WAY WE CAN. IF IT'S BRINGING FORTH CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS THAT WOULD HELP OR WORKING THROUGH A PROCESS, THE CHAMBER IS HERE TO SUPPORT BUSINESS. WE ARE NOT HERE TO, AS SOMEONE SAID -- WE'RE ADVOCATING ON (INAUDIBLE) GROWTH. WE DO -- WE ARE NOT ADVOCATING CUTTING CORNERS. WE'RE ALL ABOUT THE SAFETY AND THE RESPONSIBLE GROWTH OF OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY. WHEN I SPEAK OUT OF THE PLEASURE OF TRAVELING THE ENTIRE COUNTY. AND I SAY THE SAME THING ON THE EAST VERSUS THE WEST, IS GROWTH WILL HAPPEN WITH OR WITHOUT YOU. YOU CAN EITHER MANAGE IT OR LET GROWTH HAPPEN TO YOU. IT'S -- IT'S A MATTER OF NOT HAVING OUR HEADS IN THE SAND AND PUTTING FORTH THE FACTS. AND WE DIDN'T DO THE SURVEY TO PICK OUT AN INDIVIDUAL. IT WAS MERELY TO PUT FACTS IN PLACE. AND I JUST WANT TO PLACE YOUING FROM THE BOARD AND THE STAFF AND ALL OUR MEMBERS AND RESIDENTS WHO RESPONDED TO THE SURVEY, WE ARE HERE TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH YOU. AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT AND THANK ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY AND THE STAFF FOR THEIR HARD WORK ON THIS PROJECT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ANY QUESTIONS? MR. STURGES. >> YES (INAUDIBLE). SO IF WE REACH OUT AND CONTACT YOU IN SIX MONTHS AND SAY, HEY, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO RUN A SURVEY AGAIN AND GET ALL OF THE INFORMATION, IT'S POSSIBLE TO ADVERTISE IT CORRECTLY, THEN WE WOULD HAVE (INAUDIBLE) RESPONSE AND SEE WHAT THE OPINIONS ARE OF THE PUBLIC? >> I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF (INAUDIBLE) BUT ABSOLUTELY. MY EXPERIENCE IN THE BUSINESS FORUM WITH SURVEYS, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GAUGE SUCCESS IS TO DO A SURVEY, TAKE ACTION, RESURVEY. >> OKAY, THAT'S ALL MY QUESTION WAS. >> (INAUDIBLE) THAT. >> OKAY. (INAUDIBLE) >> MINE IS JUST A THANK YOU AS WELL. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU. THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES I'VE SEEN THE CHAMBER COME OUT FOR. SO I APPRECIATE YOUR HARD WORK AND EVERYONE'S HARD WORK HERE TONIGHT. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT, ONE FINAL SPEAKER. SO IF YOU DO WANT TO SPEAK, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO SUBMIT YOUR FORM. MR. (INAUDIBLE) BRETTFORD. WELCOME, SIR, AND PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. [01:20:01] >> MY NAME IS CAM BRADFORD. I RESIDE AT 415 COURTLY CREEK DRIVE IN WINTER GARDEN, FLORIDA. I'M ONE OF THE BUILDERS IN CRANE ISLAND. I CAME TONIGHT TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING THIS FORUM. I WANT TO SAY MY EXPERIENCE GENERALLY AND PARTICULARLY WITH FERNANDINA BEACH BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 27 YEARS, A LOT OF SMALL TOWNS AND BIG COUNTIES. I FIND STEVEN BECKMAN TO BE INCREDIBLY ACCESSIBLE. IF I CALL THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT OR EMAIL, I GET A RESPONSE THAT DAY OR THE NEXT DAY, WHICH I CANNOT SAY ABOUT FRANKLY ANY OTHER BUILDING OFFICIAL WHO'S IN MY PHONE. THE OTHER POINT TO HIS -- IN HIS FAVOR IS HE IS WILLING TO COME OUT AND EDUCATE THE (INAUDIBLE) CONTRACTOR AND THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR ABOUT VERY SPECIFIC THINGS (INAUDIBLE) WHAT GOES ON IN FERNANDINA BEACH. IT'S AN UNUSUAL PLACE. IT HAS HISTORICAL DISTRICTS, FLOOD ZONES, A LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE NEGOTIATED THROUGH TO PROPERLY CONSTRUCT HOMES OR REPAIR HOMES (INAUDIBLE). SO I THINK THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS, ONE THING I CAN SAY WHICH WAS MENTIONED EARLIER IS CONCUR -- CONCURRENCCONCURRENCY. THAT TAKES ABOUT 60 DAYS, THAT'S A LONG TIME. ESPECIALLY WITH RISING PRICES (INAUDIBLE). I THINK THAT SYSTEM COULD BE SET UP THAT THE PERMIT APPLICATIONS ARE RUN THROUGH TOGETHER, BOTH DEPARTMENTS TOGETHER THAT WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT. BUT I THINK HE'S A VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVE OF THIS CITY TO THE TRADE CONTRACTOR, TO THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR AND HOME BUILDER IN YOUR COMMUNITY. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> COMMISSIONER STURGES. >> SO TYPICALLY IT TAKES YOU 60 TO 70 DAYS THROUGH THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. AND MOST OF IT'S IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. >> ABOUT HALF. >> CURRENTLY TO THE LAYPERSON, ESPECIALLY IF YOU WORK IN DIFFERENT AREAS, THE LAYPERSON SUBMITS THEIR APPLICATION. THEY THINK THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT IS THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT OR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND IT'S ALL IN ONE CONNECTED THING, CORRECT? >> PROBABLY. IT'S JUST GETTING A PERMIT. >> RIGHT, GETTING A PERMIT TO BUILD A HOUSE. SO I FEEL AS WELL THAT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THE LAYPERSON THINKS WHEN THEY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION AND THAT'S WHERE OUR PROCESS NEEDS TO IMPROVE. I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THAT TONIGHT, BUT OUR PROCESS HAS FAILED BECAUSE CURRENTLY EVERYTHING TAKES TOO LONG TO DO AND NEEDS TO BE SPED UP. I KNOW NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THIS TONIGHT, BUT WE GOT THROWN INTO THIS WHEN WE GOT AUTOMATED AND THAT SLOWED THINGS DOWN. >> THE TIMES ARE COMING DOWN DRASTICALLY. I'VE BEEN HERE FROM THE PREVIOUS BUILDING OFFICIAL WHO TRAGICALLY PASSED, THE INTERIM, AND IT'S DEFINITELY IMPROVING. THAT'S OBJECTIVE. I'VE GOT TIME ON EVERY PERMIT. WE PULLED TEN IN THE CITY LAST YEAR. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. AND I SEE IT HEADING IN THE DIRECTION OF EFFICIENCY. AND I'VE NEVER BEEN TREATED BY ANY STAFF MEMBER DISRESPECTFULLY PERSONALLY, NOR HAVE ANY OF MY EMPLOYEES. >> OKAY. >> NEVER. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU, SIR. MR. (INAUDIBLE) HARTLEY. 1 # I'M DISAPPOINTED WITH THE TURNOUT HERE, BUT I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND IT. I'M IN THIS COMMUNITY. I'VE BEEN HERE 30 YEARS. I TALK TO PEOPLE EVERY DAY, WHETHER IT'S LUNCH DOWN AT THE MARINA OR HAVING A COCKTAIL AFTER HOURS, I TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY D DISG DISGRUNTLED. THE REASON THEY'RE NOT HERE, THEY'RE IN FEAR OF RETALIATION AND YOU FOLKS NEED TO HEAR THIS CLEARLY. I CAN TELL YOU AS ONE WHO HAS SUFFERED FROM CONSEQUENCES OF PUSHING BACK AGAINST THE CITY THAT THE RETALIATION EXISTS AND IT'S VERY REAL. I'LL GO DOWN THAT PATH IN A MINUTE. I WANT TO JUMP ON WHAT I HEARD MR. ROE SAY EARLIER AND MAYBE THE CITY ATTORNEY MIGHT WANT TO RESEARCH THIS A LITTLE BIT. THERE'S A (INAUDIBLE) FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO AND THEY MARRY EACH OTHER. IT'S AGO 84-32. THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATION IN HERE. THERE WAS A COMPLAINT WRITTEN FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO GIVE AN INTERPRETATION WHICH [01:25:02] THEY DO QUITE OFTEN, THEY CITE CASE LAW, WHAT HAPPENED THIS COMMUNITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL LAW. I WOULD LIKE TO READ THE EXCERPT THAT CAME FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AFTER THEY CITED THE EVIDENCE. IT IS WITH MY OPINION THAT THE MUNICIPAL CODE INSPECTOR IS WITHOUT AUTHORITY TO ENTER PROPERTY TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH OR ENFORCE THE TECHNICAL CODES OF MUNICIPALITY OR CONDUCT ANY ADMINISTRATIVE INSPECTIONS OR SEARCHES WITHOUT CONSENT OF THE OWNER OR WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT. THAT'S CUT AND DRY TO ME. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO ARBITRARILY SHOW UP ON A JOB SITE AND START ISSUING SAYA -- CITATIONS. THEY JUST DON'T. I HEARD THE CITY MANAGER SAY THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SPEND EXCESS FUNDS IN THE RESERVE RIGHT NOW. I WOULD TELL YOU TO HOLD ON TO IT BECAUSE WHAT I HAVE LEARNED THROUGH SOME OF THE LEGAL DEALINGS I HAVE HAD IN THE PAST 30 YEARS, ANYTHING THAT IS TAKEN FROM THE PEOPLE IN AN ILLEGAL MANNER, ANYTHING SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, LET ME SAY THAT, IS INVALID. I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU GUYS WOULD CONSULT WITH THE ATTORNEY, MAYBE YOU'LL FIND OUT SOME OF THAT MONEY IS PROBABLY DUE BACK TO SOME OF THESE PEOPLE. IF SOME OF THOSE FINES AND CITATIONS WERE WRITTEN UNDER THE GUISE OF BEING ON SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY ILLEGALLY, THAT'S NOT GOING TO STAND IN COURT AND I THINK YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. >> ANYTHING ELSE, SIR? >> NO. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TAKE THEM. >> ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THANK YOU, MR. HARTLEY. SHARON OAKLAND. THIS IS OUR FINAL SPEAKER. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS SHARON OKAY -- OAKLEY. I LIVE AT 1927 SOUTH FLETCHER AVENUE. I'VE BEEN HERE SEVEN YEARS. MY HUSBAND AND I DECIDED THIS IS THE PLACE WE WANT TO RETIRE. WE BOUGHT A PIECE OF PROPERTY. COVID CAME. WE STARTED THE PROCESS OF PERMITS ANYWAY IN SEPTEMBER. STILL DON'T HAVE A PERMIT. IT'S BEEN SIX MONTHS. AND I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY. WE'VE BEEN THROUGH ALL THE DEPARTMENTS. WE'VE GONE AROUND AND ROUND. IT'S JUST A LOT. AND WHILE TIME IS AWASTING, PRICES ARE GOING ON. WE'RE PAYING TAXES ON THAT LOT. AND I JUST WANT SOME HELP. EITHER THESE GUYS -- I MEAN, THEY NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE CONSTITUENTS THAT LIVE HERE. I'VE NEVER MET ANY OF THE BUILDING PEOPLE. I JUST WORK WITH MY -- ANY OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I'M JUST WORKING WITH MY BUILDER. AND I JUST WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE. >> ALL RIGHT. >> (INAUDIBLE). >> MR. STURGES. >> YES. WHO'S YOUR BUILDER? >> (INAUDIBLE) CTF. >> OKAY. >> (INAUDIBLE) SOUTH FLETCHER. >> MM-HM. AND YOU SAID 1927. >> I LIVE AT 1927 BUT I'VE BOUGHT ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY. >> OH, OKAY. AND YOU'RE HAVING A HARD TIME WITH YOUR PERMIT PROCESS AS FAR AS THE DESIGN? >> LAST WEEK IN SEPTEMBER AND NOW IT'S MARCH AND WE JUST HAD ANOTHER -- A REVIEW ON THE 25TH. IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE WATER DEPARTMENT SAYS, THE RULES HAVE CHANGED. OKAY, SO WE GO BACK TO OUR -- I'M SORRY, I DON'T KNOW THE PRECISE WORDS, THE PERSON THAT DOES THE DRAWING FOR THE WATER. HE DOES IT. WE SUBMIT IT AGAIN. NOW WE'VE CHANGED EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING IS OKAY. NOW THEY SAID WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WATER DEPARTMENT AGAIN AND THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AGAIN. HE JUST HAD A MEETING ON THE 25TH OF MARCH WITH I THINK IT WAS WHOEVER'S OVERSEEING THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. HE THOUGHT WE WERE DONE AND IN THE CLEAR. H HE SAID WE HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH WATER AND BUILDING. WE'RE GOING ON SEVEN MONTHS NOW. I THINK THERE'S GOT TO BE SOMEONE WATCHING OUT FOR US. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO OR WHO TO TALK TO TO HELP. >> I UNDERSTAND. IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF INEFFICIENCY IN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. >> WE'RE GOING IN CIRCLES. >> YOU THINK YOU'RE DONE AND GOT APPROVALS AND YOU'RE NOT DONE BASICALLY, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> OKAY. >> TIME A MARCHING ON. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN THIS YEAR. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN NEXT YEAR. AND I WOULD LIKE JUST TO -- YEAH, MY HUSBAND'S SANITY, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THEM IN THERE SOONER OR LATER. >> THANK YOU. >> OKAY, THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. THAT CONCLUDES THE PUBLIC [01:30:01] COMMENT SECTION. COMMISSIONER BEAN. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. I RECEIVED A LETTER FROM ONE OF OUR CONSTITUENTS AND HE CAN ASKED ME TO READ IT INTO THE RECORD. MICHAEL SHARP, 130 NORTH 9TH STREET. THIS IS HIS WORDS AND I'VE HEAVILY ABRIDGED SIX PARAGRAPHS TO TWO SENTENCES FOR TIME CONSTRAINTS. THIS IS WHAT MR. SHARP SAYS. THIS IS A REALLY EASY FIX. IT DOESN'T REQUIRE (INAUDIBLE). WOULD YOU HIRE THE BUILDING MANAGER TODAY WITH THE FACTS WE HAVE NOW? I DON'T THINK SO. AGAIN, THIS IS MR. SHARP'S WORDS. I AM JUST READING THAT INTO THE RECORD ON BEHALF OF ONE OF OUR CONST CONSTITUENTS, THANK YOU. >> (INAUDIBLE). >> I'M JUST GOING TO STAND FOR 60 SECONDS JUST TO GIVE US -- >> OKAY. >> JUST OUT OF THE CHAIR AND JUST STAND UP FOR A SECOND JUST TO STRETCH OUR LEGS. AS STATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WORKSHOP, OUR JOB IS OVERSIGHT. WE'VE SEEN THE SIGNS THAT SAY TAKE ACTION. THIS ISN'T A ONE-OFF WORKSHOP. I THINK WE HAVE CONSENSUS THAT FROM WHAT WE'VE HEARD THAT FURTHER STEPS ARE NECESSARY. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A DISCUSSION ON WHAT THOSE NEXT STEPS SHOULD BE. VICE MAYOR, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. >> WELL, FIRST I WANT TO MAKE THE POINT THAT I RECOGNIZE THIS AS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM. WE HAD 19 SPEAKERS BUT THIS CHART IS, IN MY MIND, IS DEVASTATING IN TERMS OF WHAT IT SHOWS. SO I THINK THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AND I BELIEVE IN THE PROCESS WE NEED TO ADDRESS FEES, WHICH WE'RE DOING, SCOPE OF THE PERMIT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR, WHAT IT'S NOT REQUIRED, SYSTEMS WHICH WERE WELL DEFINED AS CONCURRENT AND LINEAR SYSTEMS. SOMETHING'S WRONG THERE. AND THEN THE FINAL THING THAT WE NEED TO DO IS WE NEED TO DEAL WITH ANY SURPLUS MONEY THAT'S IN THERE AND I THINK THE CITY MANAGER HAS ADDRESSED THAT. WE NEED TO DEAL WITH OUR STAFFING AND FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, TRAINING AND HOW WE RESPOND TO PEOPLE. I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AND THAT HAS TO BE ADOPTED IN THE PROCESS. BUT I THINK WE DO NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. AND I'M NOT PERSONALLY OPPOSED. I HEARD FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT THE COUNTY SEEMS TO BE RECEPTIVE OR NOT RECEPTIVE. I ACTUALLY DID HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY BRIEFLY AT A MEETING NOT ABOUT THIS AND HE WAS NOT INTERESTED AT THAT POINT. BUT HE'S THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND YOU KNOW HOW ATTORNEYS ARE. AND I ALSO THINK WE COULD -- >> GET THAT, TAMMI? >> I GOT IT. >> I ALSO THINK WE CAN LOOK AT OPTIONS. I HAVE NO ISSUE PERSONALLY WITH LOOKING AT WHAT THE COUNTY CAN PROVIDE AND THE COST. I WILL POINT OUT AND I THINK THE COUNTY HAS BIG, BIG RESERVES OUT THERE TOO IN EXPRESS OF $5 MILLION I UNDERSTAND. SO THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE WITH THEIR PROCESSES TOO. AND THE PRIVATIZING ISSUE OF DO WE WANT TO LOOK AT PRIVATE (INAUDIBLE) AND CAN IT BE COST EFFECTIVE. THOSE ARE LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT COUNTY AND PRIVATIZING THE FEE STRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE SCOPE OF PERMITS RIGHT AWAY. I DON'T THINK WE NEED -- SYSTEMS ARE A BIG CRISIS. I THINK THAT -- AND THEN I BELIEVE (INAUDIBLE) STARTED WITH STAFF ISSUES AND STAFF COORDINATION AND STAFF TRAINING. I DO HAVE A CONCERN WITH [01:35:06] RETALITORY ACTIONS. IT'S EASY FOR US TO SIT UP HERE AND SAY IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, WE AREN'T EVEN GOING TO KNOW IT'S HAPPENING IF IT'S HAPPENING. AND I HAVE NO DOUBTS THAT SOME OF THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST. WE NEED TO CONVEY THAT THAT IS AND FIND OUT A WAY. AND IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT AN ADVISORY BOARD, I THINK THAT'S FINE. I THINK, AS YOU SAY, MIKE, WE'VE GOT TO MOVE FORWARD. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE SITUATION. IF YOU LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS AND THEN I WANT YOU TO LOOK BACK, NOT YOU NEW GUYS, THE 2019 SURVEY AND THE 2017 SURVEY. IF WE HAD GOT THESE NUMBERS THERE, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN DEVASTATED. EVEN THOUGH GUYS DIDN'T LIKE US, WE DID BETTER THAN THIS. (INAUDIBLE) DEPARTMENT (INAUDIBLE) THESE NUMBERS. >> THANK YOU, SIR. COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> MR. MARTIN, CAN YOU PUT THAT SLIDE UP FOR ME? SO I'LL BE BRIEF. OBTAINING A BUILDING PERMIT HAS BEEN CONTENTIOUS FOR YEARS. ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF CHAMBER WHO SPOKE HERE AT THEIR MEETING WHEN I MET WITH THEM SAID THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON, HE'S BEEN COMPLAINING ON THINGS FOR AT LEAST TEN YEARS GOING BACK. JOHN COTNER WHO GOT UP HERE WHO I THINK IS A REASONABLE AND THOUGHTFUL ARCHITECT, MEETING IN HIS OFFICE THREE YEARS AGO AND HE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE SAME THINGS HE COMPLAINED ABOUT TONIGHT. THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT ALL THE SUDDEN HAS OCCURRED WITH THE CURRENT REGIME, IF YOU WILL. MANY OF THE MESSAGES -- AND I WENT THROUGH ALL THE MESSAGES, ALL OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT WERE BY THE CHAMBER PEOPLE AND THEY KIND OF CAME INTO THREE POTS. ONE WAS THE MESSAGE. ONE WAS THE INTERPRETATION OF THE MESSAGE, IF YOU WILL. AND THE THIRD WAS THE MESSENGER. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THE MESSENGER IS -- HAD TO DEAL WITH THE RULES CONCERNING PERMITTING AND BUILDING IN THE CITY. AND IT IS A MORE DIFFICULT PLACE TO BUILD HERE THAN IT IS IN THE COUNTY. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS A LOT OF THE RULES THAT WE HAVE ADOPTED HERE HAVE MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT. AND THOSE RULES WERE IMPOSED BY THIS CITY COMMISSION. NOT THIS CITY COMMISSION, BUT BY THE CITY COMMISSIONS. FIRST OF ALL, BOTH THE COUNTY AND THE CITY, MOST OF ALL THE BUILDING CODE, AND THAT'S COMPLICATED, IT'S IMMENSE, IT'S ABOUT TWO INCHES THICK, AND THAT IS REQUIRED BY THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE, NOT THE CITY. NUMBER TWO, CITY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, MANY OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT I READ COMPLAINED ABOUT. THEY WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS WE PUT ON THE BEACH, THE SETBACKS THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE DIFFERENT AND MORE STRINGENT THAN THE COUNTY, IN THE CITY THERE'S NO FILLING OF WETLANDS. A SURVEY IS REQUIRED FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. THAT'S IN OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. THAT IS A COMPLAINT THAT RAN THROUGH THERE. MANY OF THE TREE RULES PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT AND THE HDC REQUIREMENTS. ALL THOSE I SUPPORT BUT THEY ARE (INAUDIBLE) ANGST IN A LOT OF THOSE COMPLAINTS. OUR FLOOD ORDINANCES WERE BROUGHT TO TASK, WHERE WE HAVE THE 30 PERCENT RULE, WHICH FEELS YOU CAN ONLY REPLACE 30 PERCENT OF THE VALUE OF THE HOUSE UNLESS YOU HAVE TO REDO THE FLOOD STUFF. SO THAT WAS A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS. THERE'S ADDITIONAL (INAUDIBLE) BOARD THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT IN AND YOU CAN'T BUILD IN CERTAIN AREAS. EVERYBODY LOVES THE REGULATIONS WHEN IT'S NOT PUTTING IN A HOTELS BUT WHEN IT IMPACTS THEIR HOUSE, THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. AND FINALLY (INAUDIBLE). WE VOTED FOR THAT AND M MM MR.MR. MR. MR. LEDNOVICH BACK IN SEPTEMBER, WE VOTED FOR THOSE AND THEN HAD A STUDY DONE THAT ALL FIVE OF US LOOKED AT THAT HAD TO DO THAT WAS REASONABLE AND ALIGNED WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES. JUST POINTING THAT OUT. AND THE BUILDING AND PLANNING DEPARTMENT CHARGES (INAUDIBLE) AND THERE IS TIME TO GET PERMIT APPROVAL AND DIFFICULT TO HIRE BUILDING OFFICIALS. AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT TAKES SO LONG. MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO WORK THERE. THE SECOND WAS ALL OF THE RULES, COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE INTERPRETATION MESSAGE OR HOW THE RULES ARE APPLIED. AND IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SOME -- IF YOU PUT THIS CHART UP AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE HERE, I JUST TOOK THE COUNTY AND THE CITY. THIS IS BOTH BY ORDINANCE NOW. >> WHICH LINE ARE YOU ON, SIR? >> THE FIRST LINE SHOWS THE NUMBER OF BUILDING PERMITS. FOR 2 PERCENT OF THE COUNTY, WE DO ALMOST HALF WHAT THEY DO IN BUILDING PERMITS. IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF BUILDING PERMITS ISSUED, AND THE BIG NUMBER THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME WAS THAT THE COUNTY APPROVES [01:40:02] ABOUT 99 PERCENT OF THEIR BUILDING PERMITS AND FOR SOME REASON THE CITY ONLY APPROVES 74 PERCENT AND I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON. EITHER THEY'RE TOO LENIENT OR WE'RE TOO STRICT OR SOMETHING'S GOING ON THERE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INSTRUCTIONS, AND WE DO A THIRD OF WHAT THE COUNTY DOES, AGAIN, WE'RE MUCH SMALLER, WE HAVE 32 PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR THE COUNTY AND 12 WORK FOR US. WE PAY MORE THAN THE COUNTY DOES. I'M NOT SURE WHY OUR OPERATING EXPENSES ARE MORE. THE BIG THING THAT JUMPED OUT WAS THE RESERVE FUND THAT COMES UP. THE CITY'S RESERVE FUND IS ABOUT EQUAL TO WHAT THE COUNTY HAS. WE HAVE MORE MONEY THAN WE SHOULD. AND THE COUNTY HAS MORE MONEY THAN THEY SHOULD. THERE'S A PROBLEM OF -- AND FINALLY, THE LAST PART OF THIS, WHEN YOU TELL SOMEBODY THEIR CONSTRUCTION PART IS EITHER NOT ALLOWED, DOES NOT MEET THE RULES AND MUSH -- MUST BE REDONE, IS GOING TO COST MORE, TAKES LONGER, IT'S A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION. AND PERHAPS WE NEED SOME PEOPLE WITH A BETTER BEDSIDE MANNER OR SO IT SEEMS. WHY NOT PUT (INAUDIBLE) CAMS ON ALL THE BUILDING OFFICIALS SO WHEN THEY GO OUT AND MAKE AN INSPECTION -- I JUST HAD A MASK DOWN HERE. WHEN THEY GO OUT AND MAKE AN INSPECTION, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT'S APPROPRIATE. AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK INTO, HAVE ALL THIS STUFF HERE FROM THE POLICE. AND THAT TAKES CARE OF A LOT OF THE HE SAID, SHE SAID, BECAUSE THERE SEEMED TO BE A LOT OF THAT TONIGHT. AND GOING BACK TO WHEN A LOT OF COMPLAINTS CAME IN, THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION OF WHAT STAFF HAD TO SAY, OF WHAT PAPERWORK HAD TO SAY, AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAD TO SAY. MAYBE THAT'S ONE THING IF YOU WANT TO TAKE ACTION, SOMETHING TO LOOK AT. THOSE ARE SOME OF MY THOUGHTS, THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONER (INAUDIBLE). COMMISSIONER STURGES. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. I JUST WANT TO START FROM THE TOP AND IT'LL TAKE ME TWO OR THREE OR FOUR MINUTES AND WORK MY WAY TO THE BOTTOM. I'VE BEEN BUILDING HERE FOR 20 YEARS AND I'M GOING TO START WITH THE TOP. SO I'M GOING TO SAY THAT -- AND I LIKE TO PRODUCE A SANDWICH BECAUSE THAT'S THE BEST WAY I LIKE TO PHRASE IT. WE'LL START WITH THE GOOD. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE BAD IN THE MIDDLE. AND THEN WE'LL FINISH WITH THE GOOD AT THE END. SO GOOD IS THAT THE REALITY IS WE HAVE A LOT OF CARING PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BUILD AND HAVE A SMOOTH PROCESS. UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE GOT (INAUDIBLE) BECAUSE I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR 20 YEARS, THERE ARE A LOT OF CODES AND REGULATIONS AND THEY'RE IN PLACE FOR A REASON. THEY'RE THERE FOR THE SAFETY AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE RESIDENTS. THAT'S THE GOOD PART, THAT OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS LOOKING OUT FOR OUR RESIDENTS. TYPICALLY THAT GETS MISSED WHEN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS SO BUSY. I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN STEVEN BECKMAN AND CALLED HIM SATURDAY, SUNDAY, AND HE ANSWERS HIS PHONE. I HAVE NEVER DEALT WITH A BUILDING OFFICIAL THAT CAN ANSWER HIS PHONE ON SATURDAY OR SUNDAY AND EVEN TALK TO YOU. THAT'S THE GOOD PART. THE BAD PART IS STEVEN HAS COME HARDER AND FASTER THAN ANY OTHER BUILDING OFFICIAL I'VE SEEN. AND THAT'S TYPICALLY WHY I THINK WE HAVE SO MUCH PUSHBACK FROM THE BUILDERS, DESIGNERS, CONTRACTS -- CONTRACTORS AND SUBCONTRACTORS. HE'S COME TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND HE WORKS HARD. AND HE PUTS HOURS AND EFFORTS INTO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND OUR CITY. WHAT I THINK -- AND THIS IS THE PART IN THE MIDDLE (INAUDIBLE) THINGS TO COME, IS STEVEN JUST NEEDS A LITTLE SERVICE AND TWEAKING IN HONING DOWN AND WE NEED A BOARD. WE DO NEED A BOARD OF APPEALS TO LOOK AFTER THIS AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AND SAY, HEY, THIS SHOULDN'T COME TO THIS FAR. WHEN YOU LOOK AT A SURVEY LIKE THIS, THIS IS THE BAD PART. WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE A SURVEY THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS. EVEN IF THE CASE IS. NOW, THIS IS TERRIBLE. THIS IS TERRIBLE. SO I'M IN THE MIDDLE PART, I'M IN THE MEAT PART. THIS IS TERRIBLE. YOU NEVER WANT TO SEE THAT. WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT WORK ALL OVER THE PLACE. I'VE CURRENTLY WORKED IN THE COUNTY AND CITY AND, YES, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT. I WAITED FIVE MONTHS TO GET A PERMIT, SIX MONTHS TO GET A [01:45:02] PERMIT WHEN I THINK IT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN 30 OR 45 DAYS. HOWEVER, THERE WAS PROBLEMS AND PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT TOGETHER AND PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS. BUT THE REALITY IS TO THE LAYPERSON, WE SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR A DEVELOPMENT OR ANYBODY ELSE, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THESE TWO DEPARTMENTS AND GET REVIEWED. THERE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT CAN CHANGE. OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO COME ACROSS AND GO, OKAY, GUESS WHAT, WE CAN HAVE ONE OR TWO THINGS IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT REVIEWED, LIKE THE COUNTY CURRENTLY HAS REVIEWED ON (INAUDIBLE) THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. IT'S A PLANNING ACTION BUT IT'S UNDER THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. I KNOW NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR WE NEED MORE STAFF TO DO THIS. BUT THE REALITY IS WE'VE ONLY GOT 19 MORE EMPLOYEES IN THE CITY THAN WE HAD 20 YEARS AGO IN 1999. OR 1990 WHATEVER IT WAS, 20 YEARS AGO. WE'RE NOT BLOATED AT A CITY GOVERNMENT. AND THE REALITY IS WE NEED HELP. THESE PEOPLE IN THESE OFFICES NEED HELP. IF WE SOUGHT OUT TO SOMEBODY ELSE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE COUNTY. WE COULD SELL THESE SERVICES OUT TO SOMEBODY. EVERYTHING GETS WORKED OTHER A COMPUTER NOW. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN COVID THAT DON'T NORMALLY HAPPEN. AND IN COVID WE'VE ALL BECOME COMPUTER ILLITERATE AND COMPUTER SAVVY AT THE SAME TIME. SO THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT WE CAN HIRE ON A SUBCONTRACTOR BASIS (INAUDIBLE) THESE APPLICATIONS. THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS PART OF THE COMPUTER. OKAY, I SUBMIT AN APPLICATION, THE PLANNER SAYS THERE ARE THESE SIX THINGS WRONG. AND THEN I DON'T HEAR BACK FOR TWO, THREE WEEKS. OKAY, I'VE ANSWERED THE SIX THINGS. WHAT'S GOING ON? WHERE'S MY PERMIT? WHY HAVEN'T I MOVED TO THE NEXT LEVEL? HOW COME I CAN'T GET (INAUDIBLE)? I'VE BEEN WORKING 50 MONTHS TO TRY TO GET A COMMERCIAL APPLICATION. I HAD 25 TO 30 NEGATIVE PHONE CALLS ABOUT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. AND NO, WE DIDN'T SEE ALL THOSE PEOPLE HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID. YOU HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE AFRAID TO COME UP HERE AND VOICE THEIR OPINION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT. SO IT IS A PROBLEM AND WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS IT. AND IF IT HASN'T BEEN, I KNOW DALE CAME (INAUDIBLE) PUBLICLY IN THE PAPER AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND I THINK STEVEN CAN BE IMPROVED. WE'RE LOOKING FOR A PROCESS TO IMPROVE OUR DEPARTMENT. THAT STARTS AT THE TOP. I DON'T SEE IT'S TIME TO FIRE STEVEN BUT WE NEED METHODS TO TRAINING AND MANAGE HIM. HE IS A BUILDING OFFICIAL, NOT A MANAGER. SO ULTIMATELY, HE NEEDS TO BE REINED IN AND BROUGHT TO THIS IS WHAT WE NEED FROM YOU, WE WANT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF CUSTOMER SERVICE WITH BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THAT'S OUR BAD PART. THE GOOD PART IS WE'RE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS AND TALKING ABOUT IT, DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW. WE SEE SIGNS ABOUT ACTION, WHAT'S HAPPENING AND ISN'T HAPPENING. IF WE STUCK OUR HEAD IN THE SAND AND WEREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING, WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW. WE WOULDN'T SPEND TWO HOURS TALKING ABOUT THIS. I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER CITY GOVERNMENT THAT WOULD SPEND TWO HOURS TALKING ABOUT JUST THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT OR JUST THE PROBLEM WE'RE HAVING. SO THAT'S THE GOOD THING. THE REALITY IS WE NEED A COMMISSION, WE NEED SOME BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE AND WE DON'T NEED PROBLEMS LIKE WHAT MR. DODD SAID, A HALF AN INCH, A QUARTER OF AN INCH. I HEARD THIS FROM MORE THAN THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE PEOPLE. SO THAT MEANS IT IS AN ISSUE WHERE THEY'RE COMING TO INSPECT AND, OKAY, IT'S A HALF AN INCH OFF. IS IT REALLY THAT PERTINENT? I'M NOT SAYING THEY HAVE TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY. IF IT DOESN'T INVOLVE LIFE OR LIMB, I DON'T THINK A QUARTER INCH IN THIS TILE IS GOING TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE SHOWER AS FAR AS SAFETY IS CONCERNED. SO REGARDLESS OF ALL THAT, THAT'S HOW I FEEL. I'VE AIRED MY OPINION OUT AND I THINK THAT IT DOES NEED SOME ATTENTION AND WE NEED TO SPEND THE MONEY AND RETURN SOME MONEY AND SPEND THE MONEY ON WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO STAFF. AND I KNOW NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THAT, BUT THAT'S THE REALITY. AND THE CITY DOES A LOT OF PERMITS FOR THE LITTLE SIZED CITY THAT WE ARE. WE ARE DOING A LOT OF PERMITS. NOT AS MUCH AS THE COUNTY, BUT WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY RESIDENTS AS THE COUNTY. WE HAVE A FRACTION OF THOSE RESIDENTS. AND THAT'S A MASSIVE NUMBER IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, 4,097 PERMIT FOR A CITY THAT ONLY HAS 15,000 FULL-TIME RESIDENTS. >> 13. >> OH, I'M SORRY. 13,000 FULL-TIME RESIDENTS. SO THEY NEED HELP. THEY NEED MODIFICATION. AND THEY NEED US TO STEP IN AT THIS POINT AND CREATE A BETTER SYSTEM. [01:50:01] SO THAT'S ALL I HAD TO SAY. >> COMMISSIONER BEAN. >> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. I'VE HEARD THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS' OPINION. THERE IS A PROBLEM. BUT I THINK I START TO DISAGREE BECAUSE THIS PROBLEM IS DRASTIC. I THINK IT'S WAY WORSE THAN ANY OF HAVE SAID. POSSIBLY THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I'VE SEEN SINCE I'VE TAKEN OFFICE. THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM. OUR CITIZENS DON'T DO THIS LIGHTLY. WE HAVE TO BE HERE EVERY TWO WEEKS. BUT THE CITIZENS HAVE TAKEN TWO HOURS AND AN HOUR AND A HALF IN SOME OF THEIR CASES OUT OF THEIR DAY. THE CHAMBER DOES NOT DO THIS LIGHTLY. THEY HAVE COME AND PUT FORTH THE EFFORT WITH THIS SURVEY. THERE WERE OVER 100 DIFFERENT CITIZENS WHO RESPONDED THAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WAS DIFFICULT OR VERY DIFFICULT TO WORK WITH. THIS IS HUGE NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN, THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE IN FERNANDINA BEACH. THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE THAT WE MUST TACKLE. I HAVE SEEN ENOUGH THAT WE NEED TO TAKE DRASTIC ACTION FOR A DRASTIC PROBLEM TONIGHT. WE MUST MAKE CHANGES. OTHERWISE, WHAT IS EVERYONE HERE FOR? THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. THE MAYOR, WHEN MR. DODD SPOKE, HE SAID HE COULD CALL THE FIVE US AND WE WOULD HELP. WE NEED TO KEEP THAT PROMISE TONIGHT. THE BARE MINIMUM IS WE NEED TO CREATE THE COMMITTEE TONIGHT. AND THAT'S SOMETHING. BUT I'M GOING TO GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER OF WHAT I THINK WE SHOULD DO. AND BEFORE I SPEAK, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT I AM AND WHAT I AM NOT SUGGESTING HERE, IS THAT I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR HOME RULE, OUR OWN PLANNING DEPARTMENT. WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR ABILITY TO (INAUDIBLE) PLACE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE KEEP ALL OF OUR DEPARTMENTS -- MAYBE DO WE NEED THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT? IS THERE A WAY TO MERGE THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WITH THE COUNTY'S? I'M AN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEER. EFFICIENCY IS WHAT I DO. JUST FROM A COST STANDPOINT ALONE, JUST FROM THE COST ALONE, IT MAKES SENSE TO DO THIS. THE COUNTY IS ABLE TO, WITHOUT OUR IMPACT FEES, BASED ON MR. GILLETTE'S STUDY, THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THE SAME JOB FOR HALF THE COST OF ADMINISTRATIVE FEES. HOW CAN THAT BE? THEY ARE WAY MORE EFFICIENT THAN US? IT JUST GETS (INAUDIBLE) ONCE YOU SEE SUCH THERE IS PEOPLE STRUGGLING IN OUR COMMUNITY. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT NEED HELP. I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK INTO THAT. I WOULD LOVE TO THROW THAT OUT THERE. MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT TO DO. MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE DO. BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT BECAUSE I'VE SEEN QUITE A FEW EMAILS AS WE ALL HAVE ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR TOPIC. >> OKAY. AS USUAL, I WILL THROW MY SUGGESTIONS IN AND FOR YOUR COUNSEL AND ADVICE. SO, ONE, I THINK IMMEDIATE ACTION IS NECESSARY. AND WHAT IS LACKING IS AN APPEAL PROCESS, A TIMELY APPEAL PROCESS SO THAT FRUSTRATED CONTRACTORS, SUBCONTRACTORS, ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, HOMEOWNERS, PROPERTY OWNERS CAN GET RESOLUTION TO A DISPUTE QUICKLY. SO WOULD THIS COMMISSION -- AND I'M LOOKING FOR TIMELINES HERE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO WALK AWAY FROM THE WORKSHOP DOING NOTHING. SO WOULD WE HAVE CONSENSUS TO INSTRUCT THE CITY MANAGER TO FORMULATE PLANS FOR A CONSTRUCTION BOARD OF APPEAL? DO I HAVE CONSENSUS AROUND THAT? >> YES. >> I WOULD BE WILLING TO LOOK INTO -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S STATUTORILY CORRECT. YES, WE'LL LOOK INTO -- >> LOOK INTO IT, YES. BUT I'M ASKING -- >> THAT'S THE WAY YOU PHRASED IT. >> I'M SORRY BUT THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. >> ABSOLUTELY LOOK INTO IT, SURE. >> OKAY. AND COME BACK TO US BY OUR NEXT MEETING IS THIS >> YES. >> OKAY. SO COME BACK. SO THAT'S NUMBER ONE. HERE'S NUMBER TWO. IT'S VERY -- THE CITY EXISTS FOR ONE REASON: TO PROVIDE SERVICES. THAT'S IT. TAXPAYERS PAY MONEY TO THE CITY IN EXCHANGE FOR SERVICE. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE QUALITY OF THE SERVICE YOU'RE DELIVERING WITHOUT SURVEYING YOUR CUSTOMERS? THERE'S NOT A BUSINESS GOING THAT DOESN'T SURVEY THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE. SO I'M SLIGHTLY DISAPPOINTED. NO, I'M OVERWHELMINGLY DISAPPOINTED THAT WE HAD TO RELY ON THE CHAMBER TO DO OUR WORK FOR US. SO THE SECOND THING I WOULD URGE THIS CONSENSUS AROUND, IS THE BUILDING DEPARTMENTORMULATE A CUSTOMER SERVICE FEEDBACK [01:55:04] INSTRUMENT THAT EVERY PROJECT, THE CONTRACTOR OR THE HOMEOWNER FILLS OUT AT THE COMPLETION OF THAT PROJECT TO THAT WE GET CONTINUOUS FEEDBACK ON HOW OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS DOING. CAN WE HAVE CONSENSUS AROUND THAT? >> THAT'S NO PROBLEM. >> YES. >> OKAY, CITY MANAGER, GOOD WITH THAT? OKAY. THE OTHER -- THE OTHER -- THAT WE'VE ALL SEEN FROM EMAILS FROM THE TESTIMONY TODAY, IS THE TREATMENT OR MISTREATMENT OF CUSTOMERS, LACK OF RESPECT, THREATS, RETALIATION. AND SO WHAT THIS TURNS OUT TO BE IS A HE SAID/SHE SAID/HE SAID. COMMISSIONER ROSS, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT BECAUSE BEFORE YOU SPOKE, I HAD WRITTEN DOWN BODY CAM. >> (INAUDIBLE). >> YEAH. THE ONLY WAY WE'LL HAVE RESOLUTION AROUND THIS IS FOR OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE FIELD TO WEAR A BODY CAM. AS SOON AS THEY GO ON THAT PROPERTY, THEY TURN THAT CAM ON. THAT'S NOT THAT EXPENSIVE AN INVESTMENT FOR WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. CAN WE HAVE CONSENSUS TO INVESTIGATE BODY CAMERAS AND ENACTING THAT ON OUR INFIELD BUILDING DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL? YES, YES. I SAW YOU SHAKE YES AND COMMISSIONER ROSS. SO CITY MANAGER, YOU WILL HAVE THAT BY OUR NEXT MEETING? SO, SYSTEMS. AND WE ALL KNOW OUR SYSTEMS AND PROCESSES ARE FAILING US. SO CAN WE HAVE CONSENSUS AROUND AN ACTION PLAN BY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY MANAGER TO IMPROVE THE SYSTEMS? >> WELL, IT'S NOT JUST THE BUILDING. >> ABSOLUTELY. THIS IS A DISCUSSION THAT -- >> IT'S NOT THE BUILDING -- IT'S THE BUILDING AND PLANNING DEPARTMENT. YOU'VE HEARD HERE PART OF THE -- >> STORM WATER, CORRECT, THE WHOLE SYSTEM, THE PERMITTING SYSTEM. OKAY. I'M SORRY. I'VE GOT A LOT OF (INAUDIBLE). OKAY. SO CITY MANAGER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT ON YOUR PLATE HERE. THE THIRD THING ARE THE SCOPE OF PERMITS. AND WE'VE ALL RECEIVED EMAILS. WHAT REQUIRES A PERMIT AND WHAT DOESN'T? I AM PERSONALLY KIND OF SHOCKED THAT A HOT WATER HEATER REQUIRES A PERMIT. YOUR HOT WATER HEATER GOES OUT AT 6:00 AT NIGHT, YOU WANT HOT WATER. YOU'RE GOING TO CALL THE HOT WATER PEOPLE. YOU WANT IT REPLACED. YOU NEED A PERMIT, REALLY? SO WHAT NEEDS A PERMIT, WHAT DOESN'T NEED A PERMIT. [LAUGHTER] YOU CAN PUSH BACK, BUT, YES, GO AHEAD. >> THAT IS TRUE AT 6:00 PM, CALL A PLUMBER, HE'LL GO OUT AND DO IT AND RETROACTIVELY HE'S SUPPOSED TO GO APPLY FOR A PERMIT. HOWEVER, I'VE HEARD MANY STORIES WHERE RETROACTIVELY HE CAME IN, WHETHER A GAS OR PLUMBER PERSON, AND SAID WE'VE INSTALLED A HEATER WITHOUT A PERMIT, YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY FOUR TIMES THE FEE. I'VE HEARD IT MORE THAN ONE TIME. >> OKAY. >> THAT IS TOTALLY ASININE. THEY'RE COMING IN TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND THEY'RE PENALIZED. THAT'S WHERE I HAVE A PROBLEM. >> I SEE COMMISSIONER BEAN'S LIGHT ON IN RESPONSE. I'M GOING TO KEEP THE FLOOR. I'M RECOGNIZING YOUR RESPONSE TO WHAT I SAY. >> TO THE ACTION ITEMS. >> YES. >> OH YES. SO THAT IS -- THERE'S MORE THAT I WANT TO POINT OUT. AND ABOUT THE BODY CAMERA, THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD CONSIDER, BUT IF WE CAN'T TRUST OUR EMPLOYEES, THEN WHY DO THEY WORK FOR US? I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR US IN OUR (INAUDIBLE), WE NEED TO HAVE -- IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE HAVING (INAUDIBLE) THAT I AM NOT 100 PERCENT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ELIMINATE THESE COMPLAINTS. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S DIRECTLY ATTACKING THE PROBLEM. FURTHERMORE, I HAVE NOT SEEN HOW IS IT THAT THE COUNTY IS SOMEHOW RUNNING THEIR BUILDING DEPARTMENT AT HALF THE ADMINISTRATION FEES WE ARE? HOW ARE THEY SO MUCH MORE EFFICIENT? IF WE KEEP OUR OWN -- WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE. THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE. IF WE ARE, WE NEED TO IMMEDIATELY REDUCE OUR FEES TO MATCH THE COUNTY'S AND WE NEED TO IMMEDIATELY -- AND I KNOW WE HAVE THAT SETTING THAT CAME UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, LET'S BE THE LOWEST. LET'S GO AHEAD AND DROP OUR FEES TO BE THE LOWEST BECAUSE WE CAN. [02:00:04] WE HAVE A $2 MILLION RESERVE. WE CAN OPERATE FOR TWO YEARS RIGHT NOW BASED ON THE MONEY WE HAVE IN OUR RESERVES. WE NEED FURTHER ACTION. THESE ARE GOOD STEPS. THE DMEE -- COMMITTEE IS A GOOD STEP. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS. >> (INAUDIBLE) THAT'S OKAY. I'LL ALLOW IT. OKAY, THANK YOU. TO RESPOND TO WHICH PART? YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THE BODY CAM PART? >> YEAH, I DO. >> GO AHEAD. >> WE PUT BODY CAMS ON OUR POLICE. I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE BEST THINGS THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN. IT KEEPS EVERYBODY HONEST. RONALD REAGAN SAID TRUST EVERYBODY BUT VERIFY EVERYTHING AND THIS IS JUST A WAY OF VERIFYING WHAT HAPPENED. A LOT OF THE PLACE REALLY LIKE BODY CAMERAS BECAUSE ALL THE SUDDEN THINGS PEOPLE SAID ABOUT THEM TURN OUT TO BE TRUE. I THINK THE BODY CAMERA IS NOT JUST SO MUCH FOR OUR OWN EMPLOYEES BUT FOR THE PUBLIC TOO. BOTH SIDES WHEN YOU'RE ON CAMERA, MOST PEOPLE ACT A LITTLE BETTER AND MAYBE IT'S CALMING THINGS DOWN AND SO SOME OF THESE THINGS DON'T ESCALATE. I THINK A BODY CAMERA IS POTENTIALLY A GOOD IDEA. >> THANK YOU, SIR. VICE MAYOR, DO YOU HAVE A RESPONSE TO BODY CAM? BECAUSE I STILL HAVE THE FLOOR. >> I'VE JUST GOT A COUPLE OF POINTS. WHAT WE'RE AGREEING -- I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT -- I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO DALE COME UP AND TELL US EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING SO FAR BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTUALLY DOING MANY OF THESE THINGS. AND THESE ARE ACTIONS THAT (INAUDIBLE) IF YOU CAN THAT. >> YOU'RE RECOGNIZED, SIR. STAY ON TOPIC. >> YES, SIR. WITH REGARD TO THE FEES, YES, YOU HAVE THE FEE STUDY IN FRONT OF YOU. THAT'S STRICTLY UP TO YOU. IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE FEES, WE CAN PUT IT ON THE AGENDA. WE CAN CHANGE FEES AT ANY TIME. WE ARE CURRENTLY HIRING ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL. WE HAVE ADS OUT. WE'RE NOT HIRING PEOPLE. WE HAVE ADS OUT. DEDICATED I.T. PEOPLE TO HELP. THAT WILL HELP ALLOW US TO OPERATE CONCURRENTLY INSTEAD OF SEQUENTIALLY. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DOING PRIVATE PROVIDER FOR PLANS REVIEWS. I BELIEVE MR. BECKMAN TALKED WITH COMMISSIONER STURGES ABOUT THAT. WE HAVE APPLICATIONS AND ADS OUT FOR ADDITIONAL INSPECTORS TO REDUCE THE WORKLOAD ON THE BUILDING OFFICIAL SO HE BECOMES MORE ON AN ADMINISTRATOR AND LESS OF A BUILDING INSPECTOR. THOSE ARE ONGOING. THEY'VE STARTED SO THEY'RE ON THEIR WAY. >> OKAY. SO WE HAVE HERE -- I'M SORRY. COMMISSIONER ROSS, WE DO HAVE ACCESS TO CUSTOMER SERVICE TRAINING. THAT'S PART OF IT. AND WE WILL HAVE NOT JUST A BUILDING DEPARTMENT BUT ALL THE STAFF ANNUALLY GO THROUGH THE CUSTOMER SERVICE CHAIN THAT'S OFFERED TO US THROUGH OUR INSURANCE PROVIDER. >> WILL YOU START WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT? >> WELL, IT'LL PROBABLY BE ALL -- IT'LL BE SEVERAL DEPARTMENTS AT THE SAME TIME, INCLUDING THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, BUT THEY'LL BE ONE OF THE FIRST ONES. >> OKAY, OKAY. SO HERE'S MY THEORY. >> AS OPPOSED TO CUSTOMERS SPECIFIC TO THE DEPARTMENT. >> I WILL SEE IF THERE IS A TARGET AVAILABLE. >> PLEASE SPEAK ON TOPIC. >> OUR SOLUTION IS TO HIRE OR BUILDING DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES. >> FINALLY WE HEARD ABOUT THE COUNTY TAKING OVER THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. IS THERE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THE CITY MANAGER EXPLORING THAT POSSIBILITY? >> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. THEY CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND WE CAN LEARN SOMETHING. >> WE CAN LOOK AT IT. >> ONE AMBIVALENT. FOUR. SO, IF YOU WILL HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT THAT MAY LOOK LIKE. WE HAVE ACTION ITEMS FOR THE CITY MANAGER THAT YOU WILL REPORT ON, ON THE 20TH. >> AT ONE POINT AND YOU BROUGHT IT BACK UP. THE COUNTY DOES HANDLE IT MUCH CHEAPER. THEY HAVE EMPLOYEES THAT THEY CAN SPREAD THIS COST OVER PERMITS. IT IS NOT EQUALLY THE SAME. YOU CANNOT LOOK AT THE EQUATION [02:05:08] EQUALLY THE SAME. THAT IS ALL I HAD TO SAY. >> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PRICE PER PERMIT, THE COUNTY IN THE CITY ARE NOT THAT FAR APART. >> OKAY, YES OR. >> IF I CAN ADD ONE ACTION ITEM I ENCOURAGE YOU TO SCHEDULE A ONE-ON-ONE APPOINTMENT AND REVIEWED MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP TONIGHT. I ASK YOU TO DO THAT BY APRIL 20. >> I WILL BE GLAD TO MEET WITH THEM. >> I SUPPOSE YOU WANT US TO GO TO CIVIL TRAINING. >> WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS GET IN THE TRUCK AND GO AROUND THE CITY, AND HAVE HIM SHOW YOU WHAT HE DOES. >> I ENCOURAGE YOU, TO TAKE THE TIME, AND I KNOW SOME OF YOU HAVE TALKED WITH HIM. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE THE TIME TO MEET WITH HIM, AND HEAR HIS RESPONSE, AND IS THOUGHTS ON SOME OF THE CHALLENGES FOR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. >> ANYTHING FURTHER? WE HAVE ACTION STEPS, THE CITY MANAGER WILL REPORT IN TWO WEEKS ON THESE ACTION STEPS. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.