[00:00:01]
>> WE'RE GOOD TO GO? >> YES, SIR, WE ARE.
[Call to Order]
>> OKAY, THIS IS DECEMBER 10, 2020, CITY COMMISSION MEETING WORKSHOP AT 5:00 P.M. WILL YOU PLEASE.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CALL ROLL? >> IT SAYS ROLL CALL.
>> HERE. >> VICE MAYOR KRIEGER.
>> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER ROSS.
>> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER STURGESS.
>> HERE. >> WE'LL RISE AND VICE MAYOR
KRIEGER LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE. >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD
[3.1 SUNSHINE, PUBLIC RECORDS, AND ETHICS LAW ORIENTATION]
. >> SUNSHINE PUBLIC RECORDS AND
ETHICS LAW ORIENTATION. >> YES.
AND CAROLINE AND I TONIGHT, WE WILL BE, I WOULD SAY BASED UPON IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS, IT WOULD BE AN HOUR OR LESS IN HERE.
OKAY. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE IN HERE FOR HOURS. THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION FOR YOU TO KNOW BRADLY, AND EVEN OUR EXISTING COMMISSIONERS TO KNOW A LITTLE WHILE THAN WE COULD EVER REALLY GIVE YOU JUST IN ONE TIME. THERE'S A LOT HERE.
THE FIRST IS CAROLINE IS GOING TO -- DO YOU WANT TO JUST TAKE
>> CAROLINE IS GOING TO BRING YOU WHAT WAS ATTACHED.
SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT WERE PREPARED ARE NOT ATTACHED FOR THE AGENDA. THEY WERE PREPARED FOR OUR PRESENTATION TONIGHT. I CAN SEND THEM TO YOU.
CAROLINE, WHEN SHE IS READY, SHE'S GOING TO PRESENT THIS DOCUMENT QUICKLY THAT GOES OVER SUNSHINE LAW, PUBLIC RECORDS, AND OUR ETHICS TRAINING WE'LL HAVE IN MARCH.
WHICH IS REQUIRED ETHICS TRAINING.
AND YOU CAN KIND OF ZIP THROUGH THIS CAROLINE, BECAUSE I DO HAVE
SOME SLIDES LATER. >> ALL RIGHT.
SO I WON'T READ EVERYTHING. BUT THE PURPOSE OF THE SUNSHINE LAW IS ESSENTIALLY TO PROVIDE CITIZEN ACCESS TO GOVERNMENT BUSINESS, AND WHAT WE'RE DOING. IT'S GOVERNED BY FLORIDA STATUTE AND IT EXTENDS TO DISCUSSIONS AND DELIBERATIONS BY ANY MEMBERS OF ANY PUBLIC FORUMS. SO WHEN YOU ARE AMONGST YOURSELVES AND SEE EACH OTHER IN PUBLIC, YOU CAN TALK.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO AVOID ONE ANOTHER.
BUT YOU HAVE TO LIMIT YOUR DISCUSSIONS TO THINGS OUTSIDE OF CITY BUSINESS OR ANYTHING THAT COULD POTENTIALLY COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION. SO YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS THE MARINA. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A NEW PARK OR GOLF COURSE OR ANYTHING THAT MAY POTENTIALLY COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION.
TO DO THAT IS IN VIOLATION OF SUNSHINE LAW.
THERE ARE THREE BASIC REQUIREMENTS WITH SUNSHINE LAW.
THERE ARE MEETINGS WITH THE PUBLIC.
THEY MUST BE PUBLICLY NOTICED. THE NOTICE MUST BE REASONABLE.
WE'VE DEFINED REASONABLE AT LEAST 24 HOURS ADVANCED NOTICE SO THAT THE PUBLIC HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW THAT THEIR GOVERNING BODY IS GOING TO BE MEETING.
THE THIRD REQUIREMENT IS MINUTES MUST BE TAKEN.
AND THE MINUTES, THEY'RE ACTION-BASED MINUTES.
THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO BE VERBATIM.
IT'S JUST OFFICIAL ACTION THAT THE GOVERNING BODY TOOK.
>> CAN I ASK A QUESTION? >> YES, SIR.
>> IN THE EVENT OF EMERGENCIES, WHAT IS THE REQUIRED NOTICE?
>> FOR EMERGENCIES, WE'VE DONE THAT FOR, IS IT HURRICANES,
TAMMI? >> WE'VE JUST ADOPTED EMERGENCY ORDINANCE. THE CITY MANAGER AND THE MAYOR TOGETHER, CAN FOR EXAMPLE, DECLARE STATE OF EMERGENCY.
THEY CAN ESTABLISH A CURFEW. BUT THEN WITHIN TWO BUSINESS DAYS, THE CITY COMMISSION IS SUPPOSED TO MEET, OR AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE. WE WOULD GIVE AS MUCH NOTICE AS WE COULD. AND IF IT'S NOT 24 HOURS, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO COME BACK AND BASICALLY CURE WHAT IS TECHNICALLY A SUNSHINE LAW VIOLATION.
[00:05:01]
EVEN IF YOU'RE PASSING AN EMERGENCY ACT OR ORDINANCE.YOU ALWAYS COME BACK AND CURE. UNDER OUR RULES IT'S WITHIN TWO
DAYS OR AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE. >> THANK YOU.
>> OKAY. MEE MEETINGS, AGENCY STAFF MEETINGS. SO MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE AMONGST OURSELVES AND OUR STAFF ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW.
SO WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO KEEP MINUTES OF EVERY MEETING THAT WE ATTEND OR CONDUCT. DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN A PUBLIC BOARD AND ITS ATTORNEY ARE SUBJECT TO SUNSHINE LAW EXCEPT IN LIMITED SESSIONS. THOSE ARE PUBLICLY NOTICED. BUT YOU DO TYPICALLY MEET IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM FOR THOSE.
I CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER, TAKE ROLL CALL, EXIT.
THEN I COME BACK IN TO END THE MEETING.
>> MEETING SOCIALLY. WE COVERED THAT.
SUNSHINE LAW ALSO APPLIES TO SUBCOMMITTEES UNLESS THEY'RE SOLELY FACT FINDING OR INFORMATION GATHERINGS.
SUCH AS THE FERNANDINA BEACH ACCESS COMMITTEE.
THAT'S INFORMATION GATHERING. SO THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO TAKE MINUTES AND BE OPEN TO THE SUNSHINE LAW.
>> WAIT A MINUTE. CAN WE GET BACK.
>> YUP. >> SO IF THE RECREATION COMMITTEE WANTS TO HAVE A SUBCOMMITTEE TO REVIEW LET'S SAY
THE MASTER PLAN. >> THEIR SUBCOMMITTEE IS SUBJECT TO SUNSHINE BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY A GOVERNING BODY.
THE BEACH ACCESS COMMITTEE IS A CITY MANAGER FORMED COMMITTEE.
AND IT WAS FORMED SOLELY TO GATHER INFORMATION, AND THAT INFORMATION IS REPORTED TO THE CITY MANAGER.
AND THEN THE CITY MANAGER COMPILES THAT INFORMATION AND SHARES WITH THE COMMISSION AT A LATER DATE.
>> SO THAT SHOULD READ -- I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THE
DISTINCTION. >> THE DISTINCTION IS THE CITY MANAGER CAN APPOINT A FACT FINDING COMMITTEE.
>> OKAY. >> AN ADVISORY BOARD SUCH AS PARKS AND RECREATION, THEY CAN FORM A SUBCOMMITTEE.
BUT ANY SUBCOMMITTEE IS SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW.
>> THE SUB COMMITTEE GENERALLY WITH MORE THAN ONE PERSON WOULD BE SUBJECT WITH MORE THAN ONE MEMBER, WOULD BE SUBJECT JUST BY
>> AD HOC COMMITTEES COULDN'T HAVE TWO.
>> DISTINCTION IS IF IT'S SOLELY FACT FINDING.
IF YOU HAVE A SUBCOMMITTEE ON A PARKS AND REC BOARD.
>> IT'S A SUBCOMMITTEE OF AN ESTABLISHED ADVISORY BOARD.
>> IT REALLY GOES TO NOT WHAT THEY'RE DOING LIKE THE LAW TELLS US IN FACT FINDING OR INFORMATION GATHERING.
IT GOES TO WHO APPOINTS THEM. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YOU THINK ABOUT WE'LL HAVE THE CITY MANAGER APPOINT COMMITTEES WHEN THEY'RE NOT TO BE SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW, AS LONG AS THEY'RE APPOINTED BY THE COMMISSION
>> WITHOUT BEATING IT TO DEATH, HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH THAT
INTERPRETATION? >> I HAVE NO IDEA.
>> I MEAN THAT INTERPRETATION FOR THAT WRITING --
>> IS NOT WHAT THAT SAYS. >> IS NOT WHAT THAT SAYS.
>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW WE'RE APPOINTING BOARDS.
>> THAT'S FINE. I'M NOT DISPUTING THAT.
>> WHATEVER YEARS AGO THAT WAS, THAT WAS A SEPARATE APPOINTED BOARD AND IT DID NOT HAVE TWO ELECTED MEMBERS.
>> I UNDERSTAND ALL THAT. BUT IT'S NOT WHAT THAT SAYS.
>> I UNDERSTAND. THIS IS AN OUTLINE AND SUMMARY.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE SUNSHINE MANUAL, YOU PROBABLY EACH HAVE ONE. IT'S OUT FOR 2020.
YOU SHOULD HAVE A 2020 VERSION. IF YOU GO IN THERE TO LOOK AT EXEMPTIONS, YOU'LL FIND THIS. BUT WHEN THEY EXPLAIN IT, YOU'LL FIND OUT -- LET'S SAY THE CITY COMMISSION DECIDED THEY WANTED A FACT FINDING COMMITTEE. IF THAT FACT FINDING COMMITTEE IS GOING TO COME TO THIS BOARD AND MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH IS GENERALLY WHAT WE ASK THEM TO DO.
GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT YOU FIND OUT AND TELL US WHAT YOU THINK. IF YOU ALL SAID, WE JUST WANT YOU TO GO OUT AND GATHER AS MUCH INFORMATION AS YOU CAN, AND THEN JUST DO A DATA DUMP OF PAPER OR ELECTRONIC FILES, THAT WOULD NOT
[00:10:05]
BE SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW. BUT THEY'RE ALMOST ALWAYS COMMITTEES THAT THEY ASK YOU TO PROVIDE SOME TYPE OF RECOMMENDATION. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW, IF YOU READ THE MANUAL.>> WHICH YOU'RE GOING TO PROVIDE A COPY OF THE LATEST UPDATED
CAROLINE, FOR SURE. >> I HAVE THE OLD ONE.
>> MEETINGS MUST OCCUR IN LOCATIONS THAT'S ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. AND THEY ALSO MUST OCCUR IN A NORMAL LOCATION. YOU CAN'T HAVE COMMITTEE MEETINGS HERE AND THEN GO TO THE GOLF COURSE AND HAVE THEM IN THE CITY MANAGER'S LIVING ROOM. THEY HAVE TO BE IN A REGULAR PLACE AND A PLACE THAT'S ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC.
PUBLIC MUST BE PROVIDED REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD. AND THAT'S REFERRING TO CITIZENS THAT COME TO THE MEETINGS AND COMPLETE REQUESTS TO SPEAK FORMS. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO STATE THEIR CASE, MAKE THEIR ARGUMENTS.
>> SO THIS IS SORT OF RELATED. BUT JUST SO I MAKE THIS CRYSTAL CLEAR. SO THERE WAS A NOTICE THAT, AN EMAIL THAT WENT OUT THAT MR. LENMENS IS GOING TO MEET AT THE GOLF COURSE. AND THE LETTER SAID OTHER COMMISSIONERS ARE INVITED. SO THAT MEETING, IF SOMEBODY ELSE WENT, A, YOU'D HAVE TO NOTICE IT.
>> YOU'D HAVE TO DO MORE THAN THAT BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE A TOUR AS I UNDERSTAND IT. AND BEING OUT ON THE GOLF COURSE
IS NOT REASONABLE ACCESS. >> THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THIS
QUESTION. >> NO, YOU DON'T WANT TO GO.
>> BUT IF YOU WANTED TO GO -- >> IF YOU WANTED TO GO, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY BE VIOLATING THE SUNSHINE LAW.
REMEMBER, WHEN WE GET TO THE MEETINGS, JUST BY THE FACT YOU'RE IN THE SAME ROOM, LIKE PU PUBLIX, DOES NOT VIOLATE THE SUNSHINE LAW.
IF YOU'RE JUST SITTING THERE WATCHING A PRESENTATION OR LISTENING TO EXPERTS GIVE THEIR OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE FINDING, THAT MAY NOT. BUT REMEMBER, TOO, A LOT OF WHAT WE DEAL WITH, ESPECIALLY IN A SMALLER COMMUNITY IS PERCEPTION.
AND THE STATE ATTORNEY GETS COMPLAINTS..
AND THEY DON'T ALWAYS INVESTIGATE THEM FORMALLY.
BUT THEY DO SOME TYPE OF INVESTIGATION.
AND IT HITS THE PAPERS THAT THERE'S A SUNSHINE LAW VIOLATION INVESTIGATION IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.
>> IF I COULD UPDATE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, PLEASE DON'T SHOW UP. THEY WANTED DIRECTOR AND THE GOLF COURSE SUPERINTENDENT TO BE WITH US.
AND I REPLIED TO THEM AND SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THAT I WANT AN UNIMPEDED ASSESSMENT.
AND JUST PROVIDE ME WITH A GOLF CART.
AND IF THEY'RE UNABLE TO DO THAT, I WOULD USE ALTERNATE MEANS. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT. SO NO ONE SHOWS UP.
>> I ALREADY TOURED THE GOLF COURSE ONCE A WEEK.
>> I INCLUDED THIS NOTE FOR PARENTA VERSUS THE CITY OF VENICE. ONE OF THE ARTICLES IS RELATED TO THE CITY OF VENICE. BECAUSE IT DOES HAPPEN.
IT DOES HAPPEN AND IT HAPPENS IN A LOT OF PLACES WHERE PEOPLE FLAGRANTLY VIOLENT SUNSHINE LAW. AND SOMETIMES THEY ACCIDENTALLY DO IT. BUT IT IS A VIOLATION AND SUBJECT TO PENALTIES AND FINES AND ATTORNEYS FEES.
PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, THAT'S CHAPTER 119, FLORIDA STATUTES.
EVERY PERSON HAS A RIGHT OF ACCESS OF PUBLIC RECORDS PROVIDED THEY'RE IN CONNECTION WITH OFFICIAL BUSINESS OF THE
CITY COMMISSION. >> I HAVE A QUESTION, CAROLINE.
>> SO I WAS DOING SOME RESEARCH. AND YOU KNOW WHEN WE PUBLISH THE AGENDAS AND THEY'RE ELECTRONIC, AND THEY HAVE LINKS AT THE BAM OF THE MATERIAL. AT A CERTAIN POINT THOSE EXPIRES. BECAUSE I WENT BACK IN TIME AND TRIED TO CLICK ON A LINK AND IT NO LONGER WORKS.
[00:15:03]
A, WHY DO WE DO THAT? >> IT'S A WEBSITE PROBLEM.
>> THE RECORD IS RETAINED IN PERPETUITY.
EVERYTHING IN RELATED IN CONNECTION WITH AGENDAS.
>> OKAY. IS THERE MAYBE DANA CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION. DOES THE LINK EXPIRE AT A
CERTAIN POINT? >> WE'LL HAVE TO INVESTIGATE.
>> I'LL GO BACK AND SEARCH FOR WHAT I WAS SEARCHING FOR.
>> YEAH. >> ONCE THE MEETING OCCURS, YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND GET THE PACKET.
>> YES, YOU CAN. >> YES, YOU CAN.
>> SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TEACH ME HOW TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT DRIVES
ME CRAZY. >> I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THAT
AND THE LINKS. >> I THINK IT'S A WEBSITE PROBLEM. A WEBSITE OPERATOR PROBLEM.
>> I'LL EMAIL Y'ALL INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO NAVIGATE THE CITY'S WEBSITE TO GET TO PREVIOUS AGENDAS.
>> WHEN WE MEET ON TUESDAY MORNING, WE'LL DO A LITTLE TUTORIAL. IT'S REALLY EASY.
IT'S A FEW STEPS BUT IT'S EASY. >> OKAY.
THAT'S EVEN BETTER. >> I'VE HEARD THAT BEFORE.
TRUST ME, IT'S EASY. >> YOU CAN GO -- THE AGENDAS, YOU CAN GO BACK AND GET THE WHOLE PACKAGES.
>> YEAH. >> THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, YOU CAN'T, THOUGH, BECAUSE I'VE TRIED.
>> IF YOU GO BACK YEARS, NO. >> SOME YEARS I TRIED TO GO BACK AND CLICK ON THE PACKET LINK AND THE LINK HAD EXPIRED.
PUBLIC RECORDS INCLUDE ALL MATERIALS MADE OR RECEIVED IN CONNECTION WITH OFFICIAL BUSINESS.
AND ANOTHER IMPORTANT DISTINCTION IS THERE IS NO WHAT WE CALL UNFINISHED BUSINESS. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WHEN WE'RE PREPARING DOCUMENTS, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, TODAY, I WAS PREPARING SOME COMMISSIONER CORRESPONDENCE AND IT'S IN A DRAFT FORMAT. IT'S NOT READY FOR SIGNATURE.
IT HASN'T BEEN APPROVED. BUT IF SOMEBODY ASKED ME FOR THAT DOCUMENT, I WOULD HAVE TO GIVE IT TO THEM.
EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT COMPLETE, IT'S STILL A CITY DOCUMENT AND I WOULD HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE IT OVER.
SO IF YOU HAVE DRAFT DOCUMENTS, AND WE'VE HAD THIS COME UP A NUMBER OF TIMES. WITH POLICE DEPARTMENT REPORTS, FIRE DEPARTMENT ASSESSMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ARE IN DRAFT FORMAT HAD TO BE DISCLOSED A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.
AND I WISH IT WASN'T LIKE THAT, BUT IT IS.
>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IF YOU'RE TAKING YOUR OWN NOTES TO JUST REFRESH YOUR MEMORY. THAT'S NOT DISCOVERABLE.
IS THAT CORRECT? >> IT'S NOT A PUBLIC RECORD.
IF THE NOTES THAT YOU'RE TAKING ARE JUST INTENDED TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING WHERE YOU'RE JUST TALKING TO YOURSELF AND YOU NEVER INTENDED FOR THAT TO BECOME A RECORD, THEN IT IS NOT A PUBLIC RECORD, NEVER IS A PUBLIC RECORD. BUT WHAT CAROLINE REFERRED TO WAS A DRAFT DOCUMENT THAT EVENTUALLY WAS FINALIZED.
EVEN IF IT NEVER IS FINALIZED, IT MAY HAVE AT ONE TIME INTENDED
TO BE, IT IS A PUBLIC RECORD. >> HOW ABOUT A PRE-PREPARED
SCRIPT? >> PUBLIC RECORD -- WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO DELIVER THAT --
>> I'M SAYING THAT FOR THE BENEFIT -- I KNOW I HAD WRITTEN OUT COMMENTS THAT I'M GOING TO MAKE.
>> YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM. YOU INTEND TO COMMUNICATE
>> IT'S A PUBLIC RECORD. >> I KNOW COMMISSIONER ROSS AS
WELL. >> SO HOW MANY BOXES ARE YOU
PLANNING ON STORING? >> THAT'S NOT MY JOB.
>> SOCIAL MEDIA COMMUNICATIONS ARE ALSO PUBLIC RECORD.
TEXT MESSAGES ARE PUBLIC RECORD IF THEY'RE RELATED TO OFFICIAL BUSINESS. IF IT'S RELATED TO OFFICIAL BUSINESS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S YOUR CITY COMMISSION FACEBOOK PAGE OR YOUR PERSONAL FACEBOOK, IF YOU'RE ON IT AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CITY BUSINESS, IT'S A PUBLIC RECORD.
AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR PERSONAL DEVICES.
SO IF YOU WERE ISSUED A CITY IPAD OR CITY CELL PHONES, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU THINK AND YOU'RE COMMUNICATING ON YOUR CITY CELL PHONE, AND THEN THAT GOES DEAD, AND YOU START COMMUNICATING ON YOUR PERSONAL CELL PHONE, THOSE TEXT MESSAGES ON YOUR PERSONAL PHONE ARE PUBLIC RECORD.
THE CITY RIGHT NOW DOESN'T HAVE A MECHANISM TO RETAIN TEXT MESSAGES ON PERSONAL DEVICES. BUT WE DO RETAIN YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS. WE BACK THAT UP EVERY DAY.
INCLUDING THE METADATA ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
COMMISSIONER BOOEN, DO YOU HAVE A COMMISSIONER FACEBOOK PAGE?
>> I DO. >> WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT MAYBE TOMORROW. I'LL NEED YOUR USERNAME AND YOUR
[00:20:01]
PASSWORD. WE'LL START BACKING UP THAT ALSOBECAUSE IT'S ALL DISCOVERABLE. >> PERFECT.
I HAVE A MEETING AT 10:00 -- 11:00, I'LL BE HERE ALREADY.
>> AND YOUR PHONE RECORD IS ALSO DISCOVERABLE?
>> OH YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. ANY PERSON IS AUTHORIZED TO
INSPECT AND RECEIVE COPIES -- >> LET ME JUST SPEAK BECAUSE THIS IS -- YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS. THE CITY, BECAUSE SOMEBODY I HAD TO DO IT. THE CITY, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO KNOW ALL YOUR PHONE CALLS FOR THE LAST MONTH, THEY CAN GET
THEM. >> ONLY IF THEY'RE RELATED TO
CITY BUSINESS. >> YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THE RECORD AND THEN STRIKE.
>> AND THEN WE REDACT WHAT'S PERSONAL.
>> IN 30 DAYS, I MADE 963 PHONE CALLS AND HAD TO REDACT THEM
ALL. >> BUT THE PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TIME SPENT REDACTING IT, RIGHT?
BUT I THINK THE MECHANISM TO STOP SOMEONE FROM ABUSING THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WHEN EVENTUALLY WE COULD CHARGE THEM FOR TIME. I GUESS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
>> YES, YOU CAN CHARGE FOR SPECIAL SERVICE TIME.
>> IT TOOK ME THREE HOURS TO DO THAT, I COULD SAY WELL IF YOU
KNOW -- >> BUT IT'S THE LOWEST PAID PERSON WHO COULD POSSIBLY DO THAT.
SO IF YOU WANT TO GET $8 AN HOUR.
>> YEAH, YOU'RE THE LOWEST PAID PERSON CAPABLE -- YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON, TOO, CAPABLE OF LOOKING AT YOUR PHONE RECORD AND DETERMINING HOW MANY TIMES YOU CALLED --
>> YOU GET $1,000 A MONTH, YOU CAN DIVIDE IT.
>> SOMETIMES IT TOOK ME A WHOLE MONTH.
NO, JUST KIDDING. >> THE CITY DOES HAVE A POLICY ON THAT. THE EXTENSIVE USE FEE WE CALL IT. AND WE PROVIDE THE FIRST 60 MINUTES OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE AT NO CHARGE, AND THEN AFTER THAT, IF IT'S A VOLUMINOUS PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, WE DO HAVE THE MECHANISM TO APPLY TO THE REQUESTER.
>> CAROLINE, CAN I ADD. >> MM-HMM.
>> JUST TO BUILD ON THAT. AND MORE OF THIS IS JUST STAFF THAN YOU GUYS. BUT WE HAVE TO ADVISE THE APPLICANT OF THAT CHARGE BEFORE WE START TO DO IT.
AND THERE'S ALSO A KEY DISTINCTION BETWEEN A REQUEST FOR RECORDS AND A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION.
WE'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO PREPARE RECORDS.
IF YOU WANT A LIST OF INFORMATION, WE MAY HAVE THAT INFORMATION. BUT IF IT'S NOT IN A RECORD, WE ARE NOT REQUIRED TO CREATE A NEW DOCUMENT JUST BECAUSE YOU MADE A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A RECENT REQUEST DUE TO ONE OF MY NEWSPAPER COLUMNS, I WANT TO KNOW ALL ABOUT GIFTS GIVEN TO THE CITY THAT WERE THEN RAFFLED OFF. WE DIDN'T KEEP A LIST OF THAT.
SO THERE IS NO PUBLIC RECORD OF THAT INFORMATION.
SO NO RECORD EXISTS. SO IT'S A REQUEST FOR RECORDS, IT'S NOT A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION.
>> MAKES SENSE. >> AND WHAT YOU SHOULD TELL ALL YOUR CONSTITUENTS AND EVERYBODY ELSE, THAT IF YOU SEND ME A DOCUMENT OR SEND ME AN EMAIL OR SEND ME A TEXT, IT IS NOW A
PUBLIC RECORD. >> THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS BECOMES A
PUBLIC RECORD. >> AND THEIR PHONE NUMBER BECOMES PUBLIC RECORD, WHATEVER IS IN THERE.
ONE LADY POST HER PHONE NUMBER. WELL IT WAS -- BUT PEOPLE ARE NOT CLEAR OF THAT. SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY
UNDERSTAND. >> WELL WE DO HAVE THE DISCLAIMER. YOU SHOULD HAVE A DISCLAIMER ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR EMAIL WHAT THAT SAYS THESE ARE ALL PUBLIC
RECORDS. >> BUT I OFTEN TELL PEOPLE SEND ME AN EMAIL ABOUT YOUR COMPLAINT.
AND THEN I JUST TELL THEM, REMEMBER, IT BECOMES A PUBLIC
>> OKAY. NUMBER ONE HERE, ANY PERSON AUTHORIZED TO INSPECT OR RECEIVE PUBLIC RECORDS, WHEN SOMEBODY REQUESTS RECORDS FROM THE MUNICIPALITY, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK THEM WHY THEY WANT THE INFORMATION, WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO WITH THE INFORMATION. WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK THEM THEIR NAME. WE HAVE TO ASK THEM WHAT'S -- HOW WOULD YOU LIKE FOR US TO GET THIS INFORMATION TO YOU SO THEY OFFER THEIR PHONE NUMBER, EMAIL ADDRESS OR MAILING ADDRESS.
AND THE REASON IT'S LIKE THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON TO WANT THE RECORDS.
THEY WANT THEM, WE GIVE THEM. OKAY.
[00:25:10]
ANY EXEMPTION FROM THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS MUST BE STATED IN WRITING. IN COMMISSIONER ROSS' EXAMPLE WHERE HE REDACTED HIS PERSONAL INFORMATION FROM HIS PHONE LIST.WHEN I PROVIDED THAT INFORMATION TO THE REQUESTER, I HAD TO STATE IN WRITING AND THE EXEMPTION THE FLORIDA STATUTE EXEMPTION AS TO WHY THAT INFORMATION HAD BEEN REDACTED.
AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF PUBLIC RECORDS VIOLATIONS, IT'S A VIOLATION TO KNOWINGLY VIOLATE THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.
PUBLIC RECORDS PROVIDES FOR FINE NOT EXCEEDING $500 MAY BE IMPOSED FOR NONCRIMINAL INFRACTIONS.
AND THEN NUMBER THREE, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT, TAMMI, MS.
BACH? >> IF A CIVIL ACTION IS FILED BECAUSE AN AGENCY REFUSED THAT A PUBLIC RECORD BE INSPECTED, THIS IS A NEW LAW. WE USED TO HAVE THESE PUBLIC RECORDS, TROLLS, IF YOU WILL, I DON'T MIND IF THAT GOES ON THE RECORD. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE.
THEY HAD ATTORNEYS THAT WERE LINED UP TO FILE LAWSUITS.
AND REALLY WHAT THEY WERE AFTER WAS ATTORNEYS FEES.
A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE RIGHTFULLY CHANGED THE LAWS AND MADE ATTORNEYS FEES NOT AUTOMATIC.
GIVING THE AGENCY THE ABILITY TO CURE THEIR REFUSAL TO PROVIDE THE RECORD AND SAY, OH NO, NO, NO.
BEFORE THEY COULD FILE IT. AND ALSO THERE'S NOT AUTOMATIC ATTORNEYS FEES. IT HAS TO BE REALLY EGREGIOUS, WILLFUL VIOLATION NOW. AND THE JUDGE, YOU HAVE TO FILE A MOTION FOR ATTORNEYS FEES. AND THE JUDGE HAS TO GRANT IT BASED ON WHAT'S HAPPENED. THAT MAKES IT MUCH BETTER.
I'LL GIVE YOU A QUICK EXAMPLE OF WHAT BE DID BEFORE THE LAW CHANGED. DOWN AT THE MARINA, THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY IN THEIR CONTRACT, I WRITE AT THE END OF ALL OF OUR CONTRACTS THAT THE CONTRACTOR HAS TO ABIDE BY THE FLORIDA PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS. EVERY BIT OF IT.
WHICH INCLUDES TRAINING YOUR EMPLOYEES.
AND SO THEY HAD A PERSON ON A SATURDAY COME IN WITH THEIR PHONE WITH A CAMERA ON IT AND A VIDEO CAMERA, AND SAY TO THE POOR PART-TIME DOCK HAND THAT WAS THERE WHO DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.
AND THE PERSON SAYS I WANT THE BERTHING AGREEMENT FOR THAT SLIP.E DIDN'T HAVE TO THEN SAY, HERE IT IS.
HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA. BUT HE SAID THE WRONG THING.
AND THAT IS, I'M SORRY, SIR, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE ON MONDAY AND REQUEST THE RECORD.
THAT IS NOT THE THING TO SAY. AND HE WASN'T PROPERLY TRAINED.
SO WE SETTLED THE CASE FOR $5,000 VERY QUICKLY.
AND WE ASKED WESTRECK TO PAY IT AND THEY DID.
BECAUSE I CLAIMED THEY DID NOT TRAIN THEIR EMPLOYEES AND IT WAS THEIR LIABILITY ANYWAY. SO THEY PAID THAT CLAIM.
BUT WE WOULDN'T HAVE THAT AS EASILY TODAY.
BUT WE TOOK CARE OF IT VERY QUICKLY.
>> THE ETHICS CODE. THE ETHICS CODE.
THIS IS PREMISED UPON MAINTAINING PUBLIC TRUST AND PROHIBITING PUBLIC OFFICIALS FROM USING OFFICE FOR PUBLIC GAIN. POLITICAL OFFICIALS FINANCIAL INTEREST WHICH IS DIRECTLY AFFECTED AS A RESULT OF A VOTE.
REFRAINING FROM DISCUSSION FROM ANY MEASURE THAT WOULD ERR ON IF CONFLICT IS KNOWN, THE NATURE OF THE CONFLICT AND SUSTAIN FROM VOTING. THE MEMORANDUM MUST BE FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK WITHIN 15 DAYS.
IF YOU DO HAVE REASON TO ABSTAIN, YOU WE PUT THAT WITH THE AGENDA PACKET.
SO THAT STAYS IN RECORD IN PERPETUITY, ALSO.
ALSO, COMMISSIONERS MAY NOT OBSTAIN FROM VOTING.
[00:30:04]
OFTENTIMES YOU'RE FACED WITH DIFFICULT DECISIONS.SO YOU CAN'T JUST TAP OUT AND SAY I'M JUST NOT GOING TO VOTE ON THIS. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE.
MS. BACH, DID YOU WANT TO -- >> AND WE WILL.
WE'RE GOING TO GO INTO QUASI PROCEEDINGS.
YOU ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE UNLESS YOU HAVE BASICALLY A FINANCIAL CONFLICT. JUST BECAUSE YOUR NEIGHBOR IS FILING FOR A VARIANCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT YOU WOULDN'T SEE A VARIANCE, ANYWAY.
YOU GET MY POINT. YOU CANNOT OBSTAIN.
YOU HAVE TO VOTE UNLESS YOU HAVE A GOOD REASON TO STATE ON THE RECORD. IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU CANNOT BE UNBIASED, YOU CAN ABSTAIN FROM VOTING.
>> CAN YOU SAY THAT AGAIN. >> IN A QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDING, THIS IS UNDER FLORIDA LAW BUT OUR OWN CODE STATES THIS, TOO, IS A MEMBER MAY ABSTAIN FROM VOTING IF YOUR ABSTENGS IS TO SO YOU CANNOT BE, YOU FEEL ONLY YOU CAN MAKE THAT DECISION, YOU CANNOT BE UNBIASED IN A QUASI JUDICIAL PROCEEDING, AND WE'LL SEE THAT IN JUST A FEW MINUTES. JUST WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS ROOM AND AT THE HEARING IS ALL THAT'S SUPPOSED TO WEIGH IN YOUR %-P. JUST LIKE A JUDGE OR A JURY. AND IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU CANNOT BE UNBIASED AND MAKE AN UNBIASED JUDGMENT IN THAT CASE, YOU MAY ABSTAIN FROM VOTING AND NOT VIOLATE 286.012.
>> SO MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR CAME IN AND HAD WANTED TO GET A VARIANCE ON A PINK HOUSE. AND I REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO VOTE ON THAT. AND SO I COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, I COULD NEVER VOTE FAIRLY ABOUT PINK HOUSES BECAUSE I JUST DETEST PINK HOUSES, AND THAT WOULD BE FAIR.
>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. >> THAT WOULD BE MORE FAIR IF
YOU DON'T VOTE THAN IF YOU DID. >> YEAH.
THAT'S THE ONE DISTINCTION. COULD YOU -- ARE YOU FINISHED WITH THIS? COULD YOU BRING UP -- DO YOU
HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTION? >> I GOT ONE JUST WHILE WE'RE WORKING ON THIS. WE CAN LEAN ON YOU.
YOU'LL LET US KNOW IF SOMETHING IS A TRUE CONFLICT OR IT'S NOT.
AND IF IT'S NOT, WE NEED TO VOTE IF WE CAN.
>> YEAH. I DON'T MIND, I'M NOT AFRAID TO MAKE A DECISION IF YOU FOR SOME REASON FEEL REALLY WEIRD ABOUT IT AND YOU WANT ME TO PUT THAT ANSWER ON WRITING, I HAVE THE ATTORNEY'S OPINION, THAT'S A VALID REASON TO MAKE IT NOT A KNOWING VIOLATION OF ANY OF THE STATUTES BECAUSE YOU WERE
ADVISED BY YOUR CITY ATTORNEY. >> GOTCHA.
>> SO FAR I'VE BEEN OKAY. >> WHICH ONE DID YOU WANT?
>> WOULD YOU PULL UP THE TOP ONE.
[3.2 COMMISSION RULES OF PROCEDURE & ROBERTS RULES OF ORDER]
THE WORD DOCUMENT, CITY COMMISSION.WE'RE GOING TO GO NEXT IN TO THE CITY COMMISSION RULES AND
>> IF THAT'S OKAY. SO WE'LL START WITH THIS.
THIS HAS A LOT MORE MEAT IN IT. THE FIRST PART, YOU WILL GET REALLY EXCITING READING TO YOU. I'M ALWAYS HERE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. AND IN 2009, TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY, ALL CITY COMMISSIONS OR CITY COUNCILS DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN RULES OF PROCEDURE.
BUT THEY DO USUALLY STATE WHAT RULES THEY FOLLOW.
I KNOW WE'VE ALL HEARD OF ROBERT'S RULES OF PROCEDURE, WHICH IS ARCHAIC BUT STILL APPLIES AND MANY DO ADOPT IT.
BEFORE 2009, THE CITY HAD ADOPTED ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER AS THEIR PROCEDURE. SO ONE OF THE THINGS -- AND I GOT HERE IN 2007, AND I SAW OTHER CITIES PASS THEIR OWN RULES MODIFIED OF ROBERT'S RULES TO MAKE IT EASIER.
AMENDING MOTIONS. UNDER ROBERT'S RULES OF PROCEDURE, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO AMEND IT, IT'S THE PERSON WHO MAKES THE ORIGINAL MOTION, AND THEY THEN CAN MAKE AN AMENDMENT, GET A SECOND TO THAT AMENDMENT. THE MAIN MOTION IS SUPPOSED TO BE VOTED ON AND THEN THE AMENDED MOTION.
WE HAVE MODIFIED THAT TO MAKE IT EASIER.
SO WHEN YOU MAKE A MAIN MOTION OR A MAIN MOTION IS ON THE FLOOR AND IT NEEDS TO BE AMENDED, WE ASK THAT THE MAKER OF THE MOTION
[00:35:03]
ACCEPT THE AMENDMENT. IT'S USUALLY, WELL IT CAN COME FROM EITHER YOURSELF AS THE MAKER OF THE MOTION OR FROM ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES. AND THEY SAY, WOULD YOU ACCEPT THIS AMENDMENT? YOU SAY, I ACCEPT THAT AMENDMENT. AND THE PERSON THAT ACCEPTED AMENDMENT CAN MAKE A MOTION ON THAT AMENDMENT.WATCHING BOARDS THAT DON'T DO THIS FOR A LIVING, IT'S -- IF YOU COULD JUST SCROLL DOWN, CAROLINE.
AND I AM NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH EVERY WORD.
YOU'RE GOING TO GET A COPY OF THIS.
I'M GOING TO EMAIL THIS ALL TO YOU.
FLORIDA STATUTES. WE WENT THROUGH THAT.
WE HAVE REGULAR MEETINGS, AS YOU KNOW FIRST AND THIRD TUESDAYS OF EACH MONTH. SPECIAL MEETINGS AT LEAST UPON 24 HOURS NOTICE. WE HAVEN'T HAD THOSE IN A LONG TIME OR WE'VE CALLED A MEETING JUST AFTER 24 HOURS
>> THIS CAN BE CHANGED? >> THIS IS ADOPTED BY RESOLUTION AND CAN BE CHANGED, YES. BY THE COMMISSION, MAJORITY
>> THREE VOTES, YES. CITY MANAGER CAN CALL SPECIAL MEETINGS. THE MAYOR OR ANY TWO MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION OR THE CITY MANAGER.
NOW I'VE BEEN ASKED BEFORE, TWO MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION CALLING A SPECIAL MEETING, HOW DO THEY KNOW THEY BOTH WANT TO CALL A SPECIAL MEETING? SOMETIMES THERE'S AN ISSUE THEY WOULD HAVE TO INDIVIDUALLY CALL THE CITY CLERK.
WE WOULD KNOW HERE THAT IT'S TIME TO CALL A SPECIAL MEETING.
THEY ALL HAVE TO BE CONDUCTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SUNSHINE LAW.
SPECIAL MEETINGS OF BOARDS AND COMMITTEES.
THE SAME THING. PUBLIC NOTICE OF THE MEETINGS.
WE WENT THROUGH THAT. A QUORUM IS -- HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE PART IN DISCUSSIONS BUT HAS NO VOTE.
CITY ATTORNEY, SAME THING. GIVES OPINIONS.
ATTORNEY DOES ACT AS A CITY COMMISSION'S PARLIAMENTARIAN.
AND I'M HERE DURING THE MEETING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
I SIT NEXT TO THE MAYOR SO THAT THE MAYOR CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND OFTEN DOES. CITY CLERK KEEPS RECORDS OF THE MEETINGS, WORKSHOPS OR CITY SESSIONS.
WE DO NOT TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE WORKSHOPS.
IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY FLORIDA LAW, YOU HAVE TO ALLOW SOMEBODY TO SPEAK ON ANY MATTER THAT'S TO BE VOTED ON.
SO OUR REGULAR MEETING AGENDAS HAVE DISCUSSION ITEMS ON THEM THAT RIGHT NOW WE DON'T TAKE ANY ACTION ON.
MMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE NOT REQUIRED TO SPEAK ON THOSE ITEMS. THEY GET TO SPEAK ON THE REGULAR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA SPEAK. WERE YOU RAISING YOUR HAND?
>> NO, I WAS JUST SCRATCHING MY HEAD.
>> COMMISSION MEMBERS, AGAIN, DON'T WANT TO READ ALL OF THIS.
BUT IT GIVES YOU HOW DO WE GO THROUGH EACH OF THE -- I'M GOING TO PUT SOMETHING UP HERE. A LOT OF THIS FOLLOWS EXACTLY ROBERT'S RULES. AND I HAVE A ROBERT'S RULES CHEAT SHEET THAT I'M GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU THAT I THINK YOU'LL FIND EASIER TO FOLLOW. WE DON'T INTERRUPT.
SOMETIMES WHAT COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH DECIDES TO DO AS MAYOR. ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC THAT IS SPEAKING SHOULD BE NOT LOOKING LIKE THIS AS IF THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THAT IS -- AND I HOPE THAT WE'LL ADDRESS THAT AND MAKE SURE ALL COMMENTS HAVE TO BE DIRECTED TO THE MAYOR.
AND REALLY, YOUR COMMENTS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE MAYOR.
IF YOU'RE ANSWERING THE QUESTION OF ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, THAT'S FINE. I'M NOT SAYING IT HAS TO BE DONE. IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN STONE.
IT'S BETTER PROCEDURE THAN HAVING TWO COMMISSIONERS THAT AREN'T THE MAYOR ARGUING BACK AND FORTH.
AND THEN THE MAYOR HAS TO INTERVENE.
IF YOU SAY MY COMMENTS ARE THROUGH THE MAYOR, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO LOOK AT ANOTHER COMMISSIONER AND TALK TO THEM.
IT'S NOT DISALLOWED. THE MAYOR WILL CALL ON ALL THE SPEAKERS. THAT'S WHY THE MAYOR HAS THE LIGHT BOARD. SO YOU HAVE TO BE PATIENT UNTIL YOU'RE CALLED. I KNOW THAT WE SPOKE, MAY I
MENTION WHAT WE SPOKE ABOUT? >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> WITH JOHN MILLER AS OUR MAYOR, HE AT TIMES, IT'S BEEN NOTICED THAT WHEN SOMEBODY HAD THE FLOOR, LIKE COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH SAID, WELL I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS THAT I WANT TO ASK ANOTHER COMMISSIONER OR ASK ABOUT THE TOPIC WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND THE MAYOR WOULD CALL ON YOU AND HAVE YOU ASK YOUR
[00:40:02]
FIRST QUESTION. AND IF ANOTHER COMMISSIONER WAS ANSWERING THE QUESTION, THE MAYOR THEN WOULD MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LIGHT WITHOUT THEN GIVING THE FLOOR BACK TO THAT COMMISSIONER WHO HAD FOUR MORE QUESTIONS TO ASK.THAT'S JUST THE EXAMPLE. >> THAT'S CORRECT.
>> COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH GAVE. AND COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH IS NOT GOING TO DO THAT. HE'S GOING TO TRY TO PAY ATTENTION TO, IF YOU DO HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COUNT THEM ALL OUT. WE MAY NOT ASK ALL OF THEM.
BUT I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS OF THIS COMMISSIONER, OF THE CONSULTANT, OF THE ATTORNEY, THEN MAYOR LEDNOVICH IS GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO FINISH THAT BEFORE HE CALLS ON ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. IS THAT ACCURATE?
>> IS THERE A DISCUSSION ON THAT?
>> SO WHILE WE'RE ON THE TOPIC. SO LET'S SAY I WANT TO -- HOW ARE YOU -- HOW SHOULD WE, THIS CONGENIAL BODY OF GET-ALONGS, ADDRESS A CONVERSATION OR GIVEN THAT BETWEEN TWO COMMISSIONERS?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND MY FEELING IS BECAUSE OF THE SUNSHINE LAW, THIS IS THE ONLY MOMENT IN TIME WHERE WE ARE ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO ONE ANOTHER. AND SO WHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING ISSUES. SO IF COMMISSIONER -- IF I RECOGNIZE COMMISSIONER BEAN, AND HE'S DISCUSSING AN ISSUE AND YOU HAVE A QUESTION OF HIM, I WILL ALLOW THIS DIALOGUE TO CONTINUE TO A LIMIT OF THREE MINUTES. IN OTHER WORDS, I'M GOING TO CAP IT AT THREE. BUT I WILL ALLOW THE DIALOGUE UNTIL I LOOK AT COMMISSIONER BEAN AND SAY, ARE YOU FINISHED AND DO YOU YIELD THE FLOOR. AND THEN I WILL GO TO THE NEXT LIGHT. BUT I WANT TO ENCOURAGE DIALOGUE. I DON'T WANT TO INHIBIT
DIALOGUE. >> I WOULDN'T MAKE THE THREE MINUTES. IT'S A REASONABLE TIME.
>> THAT'S FINE. BECAUSE WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED IN MY TWO YEARS SITTING HERE IS THAT INSTEAD OF HAVING A DIALOGUE, WHAT WE HAVE ARE A SERIES OF COMMISSIONER DECLARATIONS. PEOPLE MAKE A DECLARATION, AND THEN IT'S THE NEXT LIGHT. INSTEAD OF HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ISSUE. AND I'D RATHER HAVE THE LATTER.
SO THAT'S MY INITIAL PLAN. AND LIKE ANYTHING, WE'LL SEE HOW IT WORKS. AND ADJUST.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO SAY BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN HERE, I'LL TALK ABOUT IT IN JUST A MINUTE, IS ABOUT POINTS OF ORDER AND ABOUT -- AND THIS IS NOT PICKING ON YOU, COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH. WHOEVER IS SITTING IN THAT CHAIR AS MAYOR. WE COULD HAVE A WILD ONE WHO DECIDES THEY'RE JUST GOING TO BANG THE GAVEL AND CUT OFF CONVERSATIONS OR DEBATE. AND THREE OF YOU CAN OVERRULE -- A MAJORITY OF THE COMMISSION CAN OVERRULE THE MAYOR.
THE MAYOR'S INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES.
AND THE MAYOR'S -- SOME RULES -- HE CAN IMPOSE A THREE-MINUTE RULE ON DEBATE IF HE WISHES TO. THAT'S PART OF ROBERTS RULES.
IT'S NOT DISCUSSED HERE. IF WE WANTED TO MAKE THAT SPECIFIC, WE WOULD PUT IT IN THIS RULES OF PROCEDURE.
SO YOU DO HAVE THAT. I WOULD JUST RECOMMEND THAT IF YOU DO MAKE A RULE LIKE THAT, YOU MAKE THE RULE AND YOU STICK TO IT. OR YOU DON'T HAVE THE RULE.
BECAUSE WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS. THERE MIGHT BE CONVERSATIONS AND DEBATES WE'RE ANNOYED BY OR IRRELEVANT STUFF THAT YOU'RE READY TO STOP LISTENING TO, AND THE BETTER THING IS JUST TO MOVE ON TO, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT THING AND NOT NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, SAY YOUR THREE MINUTES IS UP. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT?
IT'S GOING BACK A LITTLE BIT. WORKSHOPS, WE ALMOST ALWAYS DICTATE PUBLIC COMMENT AT WORK SHOPS.
>> WE HAVE. >> ALMOST INVARIABLY WE HAVE.
SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK EITHER WE DO OR WE DON'T TO BE
CONSISTENT. >> WELL I'D MAKE THE FOLLOWING SUGGESTION THAT WE ALL GO BACK AND READ THIS AND IF THERE'S SOME CHANGES THAT ONE OR ALL OF US WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT WE
CERTAINLY DISCUSS THAT. >> THAT'S FINE.
>> IF YOU WISH, WE HAVE OUR NEXT MEETING IS FULL ON TUESDAY.
I THINK WE'RE PRETTY -- OUR AGENDA IS CLOSED FOR JANUARY, IS THAT RIGHT? THE FIRST MEETING.
PERHAPS THE SECOND MEETING IN JANUARY GIVING YOU ALL A MONTH
[00:45:02]
>> CLOSE TO THE 16TH. >> CLOSINGS TOMORROW.
>> TOMORROW. >> I'LL PUT SOMETHING ON THERE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S WORTHY OF DISCUSSION.
IT DOESN'T MEAN WE'LL HAVE THE RESOLUTION IN PLACE.
BUT WE COULD HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT SOME OF YOUR IDEAS ARE ABOUT CHANGING THE RULES. ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF, THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME RULES OF DECORUM.
IN THAT CASE, THE MAYOR IS NOT THE ONE THAT IS GOING TO MAINTAIN DECORUM. IT IS THE CITY MANAGER THAT'S GOING TO TACKLE THE STAFF MEMBER AND GET THEM OUT OF HERE.
COULD YOU SCROLL UP A LITTLE BIT MORE.
>> I HAVE FULL TRUST IN -- DON'T WE HAVE A POLICE OFFICER.
>> I'M KIDDING WHEN I SAY TACKLE.
>> CITIZENS AND VISITORS, THIS IS ABOUT THE DECORUM.
THIS PUTS THE PUBLIC -- THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WE DID THESE RULES, FRANKLY, IS WHEN YOU PUT THE PUBLIC ON NOTICE ON WHAT'S EXPECTED OF THEM AND THE RULES AND DECORUM EXPECTATIONS, THEN THEY'RE LESS LIKELY TO SUE YOU OR THE CITY, NOT YOU PERSONALLY, IF FOR SOME REASON THEY'RE ASKED TO LEAVE THE CHAMBERS.
I HAVE ADVISED EVERY MAYOR SINCE I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, THAT YOU DON'T EVER WANT WHAT IS TECHNICALLY CALLED THE SERGEANT AT ARMS, THE POLICE OFFICER HERE, TO HAVE TO TAKE SOMEBODY OUT OF THE CHAMBERS AWAY FROM THE PODIUM.
FIRST AMENDMENT, WE DON'T WANT TO BE IN FEDERAL COURT ON THOSE ISSUES. SO WHAT I HAVE ADVISED OUR MAYOR ELECT LEDNOVICH, AND MILLER BEFORE HIM, AND THOSE THAT CAME BEFORE THEM, IS THAT THE BEST WAY TO DEFUSE THAT TYPE OF SITUATION IS TO TAKE A RECESS. TAKE A SHORT RECESS.
EITHER THAT PERSON IS EITHER NOT OF THEIR RIGHT MIND OR THEY'RE JUST VERY PASSIONATE AND THEY NEED TO SETTLE DOWN.
WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS AND WE COME BACK.
THE MAYOR WARNS EVERYONE WE NEED DECORUM.
THIS INCLUDES WHETHER WE HAVE CHAMBERS FULL OF PEOPLE CLAPPING, HOOTING AND HOLLERING. THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE.
I MEAN, FOR A SECOND OR TWO FOR SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL, WE ALL PARTICIPATE IN THAT. BUT SOMETIMES IT GETS OUT OF HAND. THE MAYOR, YOU'VE SEEN MAYOR MILLER DO IT. HE GIVES A WARNING AND SAYS I'M GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A RECESS. YOU'RE NOT TO BE CLAPPING, HOOTING AND HOLLERING. OF COURSE NO PROFANITY OR ANYTHING. ANY MAYOR CAN JUST CONTINUE TO RECESS. AND I'VE ADVISED MR. LEDNOVICH SPECIFICALLY THAT IF SOMEBODY -- YOU'VE TAKEN A COUPLE OF REC RECESSES, AND THEY'RE JUST ARE COMMITTED TO WHATEVER BEHAVIOR THEY HAVE, YOU CAN ALWAYS RECESS ANY OF THESE MEETINGS TO A FUTURE DATE.
YOU CAN RECESS AND RECONVENE AT A FUTURE DATE.
SO THAT ALMOST ALWAYS DEFUSES THE SITUATION AND WE DON'T HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE. CAN YOU
>> I ALREADY DID. I ALREADY SCROLLED DOWN.
>> THAT'S THE DECORUM PART. DUTIES AND PRIVILEGES OF MEMBERS, SEATING ARRANGEMENT, RIGHT OF THE FLOOR.
WE TALKED ABOUT THAT. CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT. A RIGHT OF APPEAL.
ANY MEMBER OF THE CITY COMMISSION, IF YOU DON'T LIKE A RULING, YOU CAN APPEAL TO THE MAYOR.
IF THE APPEAL IS SECONDED, THE PERSON MAKING THE APPEAL CAN BRIEFLY -- THAT'S HOW YOU OVER-- ARE YOU READING THAT UP THERE?
>> I'M READING IT BUT I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING IT.
>> ANY MEMBER MAY APPEAL TO THE CITY COMMISSION.
THIS IS ON PROCEDURE. NOT ON ANY INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS.
ON PROCEDURE. LET'S SAY YOU IMPOSE A THREE-MINUTE RULE. AND YOU SAY, TONIGHT, WE HAVE A VERY LARGE AGENDA. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A THREE-MINUTE RULE FOR DEBATE. AND COMMISSIONER ROSS SAYS I'M SORRY, I DON'T ACCEPT THAT. I HAVE A LOT TO SAY.
OTHERS, ME, TOO. AND I WILL APPEAL TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS MOTION TO BE OVERRULED.
>> AND I SECOND. >> YOU SECOND THAT.
MAYOR, YOU WILL HAVE TO CALL FOR A VOTE.
IF YOU DON'T, THE CLERK WILL GO AHEAD AND CALL THE ROLL.
AND IF YOU GET TWO COMMISSIONERS TO AGREE, MAYOR, YOU'RE
OVERRULED. >> NO, YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER.
THAT'S THE BEST. >> NO CELL PHONES OR MOBILE DEVICES DURING MEETINGS. LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT. WE'VE OVER THE YEARS ENFORCED THIS IN DIFFERENT WAYS. I FOR ONE DO NOT TEXT LOVE NOTES OR GROCERY LISTS OR ANYTHING. BUT I DO LOOK AT EMAILS OCCASIONALLY ON MY PHONE AND ANSWER THEM.
THAT USED TO DRIVE FORMER COMMISSIONER SMITH NUTS, AND HE
[00:50:01]
TOLD ME TO STOP DOING IT BECAUSE IT DISTRACTED HIM.WHEN I STARTED SITTING NEXT TO COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH, I SAID, DOES THAT BOTHER YOU, AND HE SAID, NO, THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. SOMETIMES WE'LL HAVE TABLETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. GENERALLY SPEAKING AS CITY COMMISSIONERS, I'LL SAY THIS IS THE REASON.
IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA ALMOST EVERYBODY HAD SOMETHING UP ON THE DAIS TABLE SOMETHING VIBRATING.
I WOULD NOT BE TEXTING DURING THE MEETINGS AT ALL.
BECAUSE WE DID HAVE A TIME WHEN WE HAD A MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE WATCHING COMMISSIONERS TEXTING, A COUPLE OF THEM.
THEY WEREN'T RELATED AT ALL. THEY WEREN'T TEXTING EACH OTHER.
BUT THE AUDIENCE MEMBER THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS GOING ON AND MADE A REQUEST FOR ALL THOSE TEXT MESSAGES.
THEY WERE TIMID AND THEY DIDN'T REALLY TAKE IT VERY FAR.
BUT THE TEXT MESSAGES WERE NOT ALL RETRIEVABLE.
IT WENT AWAY, THANK GOODNESS. BUT IT COULD BE SERIOUS.
SO I WOULD NOT TEXT MESSAGE AS A CITY COMMISSIONER.
>> THE OTHER DANGER, TAMMI, THIS HAPPENED TO ME A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. MY PHONE WAS BACK HERE AND SIRI HEARD MY VOICE AND STARTED SPEAKING TO ME DURING THE
MEETING. >> DID YOU HAVE YOUR SILENCE ON YOUR PHONE AND IT STILL DOES THAT?
>> NO, I FORGOT TO TURN IT OFF. NOW I JUST TURN MY PHONES OFF.
JUST BE AWARE THAT THAT'S ALSO PROBLEMATIC.
>> I WILL TELL YOU, TOO, THAT SOMETIMES EVEN ON SILENT, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS AND APPS THAT WILL STILL BREAK THROUGH THE SILENCE, EVEN IF YOU SILENCE IT.
BUT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO ASK EVERYBODY TO SILENCE THEIR CELL PHONES AND DEVICES.
>> THE OTHER THING IS SOMEBODY IN THE AUDIENCE CAN BE TEXTING
AS A COMMISSIONER AND TELLING YOU WHAT THEY'RE -- YEAH.
>> THERE HAVE BEEN SERIOUS CASES OF COMMISSIONERS NOT HERE GETTING TEXTS TO ACTUALLY TRY TO INFLUENCE THEIR VOTE ON THAT PARTICULAR ITEM. I BELIEVE IT WAS JACKSON.
IT SENDS A BAD MESSAGE. I PERSONALLY EVEN THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT VOTING. BUT I THINK THAT ANYBODY UP HERE SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON.
>> THAT'S FINE. >> INCLUDING YOU.
>> NO PROBLEM. >> AND NOT DOING OTHER WORK.
YOU'RE NOT VOTING, BUT IT'S -- THE PERCEPTION OF THE PUBLIC
SEEING YOU DOING IT IS NOT GOOD. >> THAT'S FINE.
CHAIR AND DUTIES. THE MAYOR IF PRESENT SHALL PRESIDE AS CHAIR IN ALL MEETINGS OF THE CITY, THE VICE MAYOR PROVIDES. IN THE ACTIONS OF BOTH, THE COMMISSION WILL APPOINT A CHAIR OUT OF THE THREE REMAINING COMMISSIONERS. CALL TO ORDER.
AGENDA AND PUBLIC SPEAKING. CITIZEN SPEAKERS.
THIS IS OUR THREE MINUTES RULE. SPEAKERS ARE TO REGISTER.
THEY DO NOT HAVE TO FILL OUT A SPEAKER FORM BEFORE THEY SPEAK.
WE FOUND THAT WAS CUMBERSOME AND CAUSED SORT OF A CHILLING EFFECT ON SOME SPEAKERS BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID THEY DIDN'T GET THEIR FORM IN ON TIME. THEY CAN FILL OUT THEIR FORM AFTER. THEY SPEAK.
WE'RE PRETTY INFORMAL ABOUT THAT.
BUT IT IS A THREE-MINUTE TIME LIMIT.
AND THEY'RE ONLY ENTITLED TO VOTE, AS I SAID BEFORE, ON ITEMS -- NOT VOTE, ENTITLED TO SPEAK ON ITEMS THAT YOU'LL VOTE ON.
GO AHEAD, CAROLINE. THESE ARE SPEAKERS RULES.
>> RECONSIDERATION. LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS FOR A MINUTE BECAUSE IT ALWAYS COMES UP LEAST ABOUT ONCE A YEAR.
A MOTION TO RECONSIDER ANY ACTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION MAY BE MADE, SECONDED, AND VOTED ON NOT LATER THAN THE NEXT SUCCEEDING MEETING. IT'S GOT BE AT THE NEXT SUCCEEDING MEETING OF THE COMMISSION.
AND IT MEANS OR IS INTENDED TO MEAN REGULAR MEETINGS.
IF THERE WAS SOME SPECIAL MEETING HELD BETWEEN THE TWO REGULAR MEETINGS, THAT WOULDN'T COUNT.
IF RECONSIDERATION OF THE ACTION HAS NOT BEEN POSTED ON THE AGENDA FOR THE MEETING, ACTUAL RECONSIDERATION MUST BE DELAYED UNTIL THE NEXT VOTING AGENDA AFTER THE POSTING.
SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT WANTING TO RECONSIDER SOMETHING FROM THE PRIOR MEETING AFTER AN AGENDA GOES OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN BRING IT UP VERBALLY AT A COMMISSION MEETING AND PRESERVE YOUR RIGHT TO RECONSIDER. BUT IT WILL THEN BE PLACED ON THE NEXT AGENDA. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS.
[00:55:01]
>> TO VOTE TO RECONSIDER, YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE --
>> PREVAILING SIDE. >> HERE'S MY NEXT QUESTION.
WHAT POINT CAN YOU CHANGE YOUR VOTE?
>> AT THE RECONSIDERATION. >> NO.
AND I VOTE THE 2. BUT I KNOW SOMETHING SPECIAL AND I THINK I CAN CHANGE THINGS, SO I WANT TO BRING THIS UP AGAIN LATER. AT WHAT POINT -- JUST THIS IS
NOT ME THAT THOUGHT THIS UP. >> I'M LISTENING.
>> AT WHAT POINT CAN YOU CHANGE YOUR VOTE? SO YOU CAN BE ON THE WINNING SIDE.
SO YOU CAN COME BACK TO CHANGE IT TO RECONSIDER
>> I DID UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
>> OH. >> THE TWO, YOU CANNOT MAKE A
MOTION TO RECONSIDERATION. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT.
>> SO IF THE MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION IS PROPERLY MADE
IN PASSES. >> THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M --
>> THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR VOTE.
>> NO, WHEN CAN YOU CHANGE YOUR ORIGINAL VOTE?
>> DURING THE TIME OF THAT MEETING THAT YOU'RE VOTING.
>> 20 MINUTES LATER CAN I CHANGE MY VOTE ON SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN PASSED? AT WHAT POINT CAN I CHANGE MY
VOTE? >> I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.
>> IT'S STILL A RECONSIDERATION ISSUE.
>> NO, NO, NO. >> I UNDERSTAND.
>> LET'S USE AN EXAMPLE. >> SO IT GOES 3-2, AND SUDDENLY COMMISSIONER ROSS SAYS I WANT TO RECONSIDER AND I WAS ON THE LOSING SIDE, I'M GOING TO CHANGE MY VOTES IN THE SAME MEETING THE 3-2 VOTE WAS HELD. NOPE, I'M GOING TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT, 4-1. SO HE WOULD CHANGE --
>> MY QUESTION IS WHAT DOES YOUR VOTE BECOME FINAL?
>> AFTER THE ROLL CALL. >> ARE YOU SURE?
>> POSITIVE. >> CAN WE CHECK THAT?
>> YEAH. >> I'M NOT DISPUTING YOU.
>> IT COULD BE AN INTERESTING TACTIC THAT PEOPLE COULD --
>> I DIDN'T DREAM THIS TACTIC UP.
>> I KNOW. I MEAN, YOU COULD SAY, YEAH, YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER REASON YES AND THEN CHANGE IT.
RECONSIDERED IT. >> YOU NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THAT. YOU HEAR OF THIS HAPPENING ALL THE TIME IN LARGER POLITICAL BODIES THAN US.
A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN IN WASHINGTON WILL VOTE AGAINST HIS PARTY'S WISHES TO RETAIN THAT RIGHT TO APPEAL.
BUT YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND CHANGE IT.
CALLS THE ROLL AND YOU SAY AYE. >> BUT IS IT WHEN FINISHES CALLING THE ROLL -- AT WHAT POINT ARE YOU LOCKED IN I GUESS
IS MY QUESTION. >> WHEN SHE CALLS THE ROLL.
>> AND THEN KRIEGER AND BEAN AND ROSS.
AND THE NEXT ONE, AND I GO, NO, I WANT TO CHANGE MY VOTE.
>> I THINK YOU CAN DURING THE ROLL CALL BUT I WILL CHECK.
THAT WILL BE A GREAT CONVERSATION FOR JANUARY 16TH IS
OUR SECOND MEETING. >> REALLY OBSCURE.
>> NO, BUT IT COULD HAPPEN. SO IF YOU ALL COULD AGREE, IF YOU ALL DID AGREE ON WHAT YOU WANTED THE RULES TO BE, I DON'T CARE WHAT ROBERTS RULES SAYS, YOU COULD PUT IT -- PARDON.
>> CALLING THE QUESTION, AMENDMENTS TO MOTIONS.
WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT WITHDRAWAL OF MOTIONS.
WE'VE DONE THAT, TOO. THAT'S DONE BY THE MAKER OF THE MOTION. YOU'LL SAY I WITHDRAW MY MOTION.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION ON CALLING A MOTION.
>> MM-HMM. >> SO SUPPOSE SOMEONE WANTS TO INHIBIT COMMISSIONER DIALOGUE AND ONLY TWO COMMISSIONERS HAVE SPOKEN. AND SOMEONE SAYS CALL TO
QUESTION. >> ONLY A MAJORITY OF THE CITY COMMISSION CAN FORCE YOU, MR. MAYOR, TO THEN ASK THE CLERK TO.
>> SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE A VOTE ON CALL TO QUESTION?
>> YEAH. IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR IF JUST ONE COMMISSIONER CAN FORCE THE -- YOU CAN'T JUST FORCE THE WHOLE
BODY TO THEN STOP DEBATING. >> OKAY.
THANK YOU. >> BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE --
>> I'M NOT SURE â– YOU'REIGHT. >> I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING
BUT IT'S -- >> SO SOMEBODY SAYS CALL THE VOTE AND MIKE SAYS, YOU KNOW, NOT YET.
THEN YOU COULD HAVE -- THEN YOU COULD FORCE THE ISSUE.
>> IF YOU CAN GET OTHERS TO AGREE.
I DON'T THINK ONE COMMISSIONER CAN FORCE THE CALLING.
>> CALLING THE VOTE IS WHAT I'M GETTING TO.
[01:00:01]
>> ONE MORE TIME. >> HE CAN REFUSE TO CALL THE
VOTE. >> I HAVE OTHER LIGHTS ON.
>> YES. I DON'T THINK ONE ELECTED OFFICIAL CAN FORCE THE WHOLE BODY TO STOP THE DEBATE.
SUSPENSION OF RULES. >> I HAVE ONE QUESTION.
>> HOW -- I'LL JUST ASK YOU. HOW DO YOU INTEND TO PARTICIPATE
IN DISCUSSION? >> TAMMI AND I HAD A VERY INTERESTING CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS.
>> WHAT MILLER DID IS HE WAITED UNTIL THE END.
>> CORRECT. AND ABSOLUTELY TO MY
>> IF I COULD FINISH. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. WHAT I'M BASING THAT ON, COMMISSIONER, I WOULD WATCH DANNY LEIBER RUNNING THE COUNTY, AND HE WOULD JUST TALK WHENEVER HE WANTED TO TALK.
IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH HIS CHAIRMAN STYLE.
SO I ASKED TAMMI ABOUT THAT. I THINK I WILL FOLLOW THE PAST
>> MAYOR MILLER SAID AND SEE HOW IT GOES.
>> BUT ACTUALLY, IN OUR BYLAWS, IF YOU SCROLL THROUGH THAT.
>> BACK UP. >> IT SAYS WHO YOU WILL -- I CAN'T REMEMBER, WHAT RULES YOU'RE GOING TO FOLLOW.
AND AT THE END OF THAT, IT SAYS ROBERTS RULES OF WAR.
SO I WENT TO LOOK AT ROBERTS RULES OF WAR.
IT BASICALLY SAYS THE CHAIRMAN SHOULD ONLY PARTICIPATE, IT'S GOT A WHOLE SECTION ON THAT SPARRINGLY AND ONLY AT THE END.
AND IT IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF -- I'M NOT SAYING IT'S RIGHT OR WRONG. BUT IF YOU FOLLOW WHAT IS
WRITTEN, THAT'S WHAT IS WRITTEN. >> AS WE DISCUSSED ON MONDAY, ROBERTS RULES OF ORDER HAS RULES FOR LARGE ASSEMBLIES AND FOR SMALL BOARDS. AND WE'RE CONSIDERED A SMALL BOARD OF LESS THAN 12. IF YOU READ SOME OF THOSE OTHER RULES IN THERE, THEY'RE REALLY HOKEY.
FOR SMALL BOARDS THEY ARE. BUT IT DOES GENERALLY SAY, AND FROM WHAT WE READ IS GENERALLY SPEAKING THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO WAIT UNTIL THE END.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T EVER MAKE ANY COMMENTS.
>> I'M NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING. >> SO I WILL WAIT UNTIL THE END.
I WON'T GUARANTEE YOU IT WILL BE SPARINGLY.
>> CALL TO QUESTION. >> I AM A PARTICIPANT.
>> CALL TO QUESTION. >> RIGHT.
OKAY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAYOR MILLER DID NOT DO, HE'LL BE FINE WITH ME SAYING THAT BECAUSE CAROLINE AND I WOULD REMIND HIM. AND OTHER MAYORS BEFORE HIM DIDN'T DO, BUT I THINK IS VERY HELPFUL FOR CAROLINE, FOR THE PUBLIC, IS FOR YOU, MR. MAYOR, TO RESTATE THE MOTION THAT HAS BEEN MADE. AND WHEN YOU RESTATE THE MOTION, YOU MAKE IT CLEAR TO CAROLINE, YOUR FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS, AND
THE PUBLIC, WHAT THE MOTION IS. >> THAT'S AFTER LENGTHY DISCUSSION. THERE'S A MOTION, THERE'S A SECOND, AND THEN 30 MINUTES OF DISCUSSION, AND AMENDMENTS, YOU KNOW, IT'S HELPFUL TO RESTATE IT.
>> OKAY. CAN I ASK YOU TO RESTATE IT FOR US? OR ARE YOU GOING TO RELY ON ME
TO REMEMBER? >> I CAN RESTATE IT.
>> IF WE RUN INTO ANY CONFUSION, I'LL ASK WHOEVER MADE THE
MOTION. >> AND OCCASIONALLY, I WILL ASK IF I'M NOT CLEAR ON WHAT THE DECISION IS, I'LL ASK.
>> I'LL RESTATE HOW I THINK IT IS.
AND THEN YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF NEEDED.
>> THAT'S PERFECT. >> YES, MA'AM.
>> SO THIS IS JUST A DOCUMENT I'M GOING TO SEND TO YOU.
THIS KIND OF GOES THROUGH AND JUST GIVES SOME POINTS ABOUT ROBERTS RULES OF ORDER. IT CAN BE HELPFUL.
NOW IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, I'D LIKE TO -- I'M GOING TO SEND YOU -- WE'RE GOING TO SEND YOU A BUNCH OF THESE DOCUMENTS JUST FOR YOU TO FILE AWAY AND ARCHIVE AND REFER TO WHEN YOU NEED TO. I NEED TO GO THROUGH BECAUSE THE CITY COMMISSION CONDUCTS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS AT FIRST READING FOR ANNEXATIONS, ZONING, PLAT APPROVALS, PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT APPROVALS. AND WE DO THAT AT FIRST READING.
AND YOU TAKE IN ALL THE EVIDENCE, AND YOU DO NOT VOTE THAT EVENING. FLORIDA LAW ONLY REQUIRES TWO
[01:05:03]
READINGS OF AN ORDINANCE. YOU HAVE TO READ THE TITLE TWICE. BUT YOU ONLY HAVE TO VOTE ONCE.SO WE VOTE AT SECOND READING. AND THIS WAY IT GIVES YOU TIME TO THINK ABOUT THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU HEARD.
AT THAT POINT I ASK THAT YOU NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY EX PARTE DISCUSSIONS OR TALK TO ANY PROPERTY OWNERS.
YOUR DECISION IS SUPPOSED TO BE ON WHAT IS PRESENTED HERE AT FIRST READING. THEN WHEN WE COME BACK FOR
SECOND READING. >> THIS IS WHAT I HOPE WAS DONE AT EVERY MEETING. TO ASK.
>> OKAY. I'LL MAKE SURE AND TRY TO
REMEMBER, TOO, WHEN I'M UP HERE. >> YOU KNOW WHAT WE MEAN BY EX
PARTE COMMUNICATIONS? >> YOU MEAN TALKING TO INDIVIDUALS AFFECTED BY THIS ISSUE OUTSIDE OF THIS CHAMBER?
>> IF I FORGET, COMMISSIONERS, PLEASE.
>> IT LITERALLY MEANS THE PARTIES.
THE CITY IS A PARTY, AND THE APPLICANT OR PROPERTY OWNER IS THE PARTY. LET'S JUST GO INTO THIS.
IT IS A SLIDESHOW. WE'LL GO THROUGH.
>> YOU CAN DO AT THE VERY TOP TOOL BAR, YOU CAN DO SLIDESHOW IN THE MIDDLE THERE. SLIDESHOW, AND THEN FROM BEGINNING, THEN THE WHOLE SCREEN SHOWS UP FROM BEGINNING.
>> ALL RIGHT. QUASI LEGISLATIVE VERSUS QUASI JUDICIAL. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? SO QUASI LEGISLATIVE IS WHEN YOU'RE FORMULATING POLICY SO YOU'RE PASSING ORDINANCE. YOU'RE PASSING A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT THAT AFFECTS LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THAT LAND USE CATEGORY. NOT JUST ONE PROPERTY OR SMALL GROUP OF PROPERTIES. YOU'RE, AGAIN, FORMULATING POLICY AND NOT A DECISION ON A SPECIFIC PARCEL OR A SPECIFIC APPLICATION. AND IF IT'S SUBJECT TO A FAIRLY DEBATABLE STANDARD OF REVIEW IN THE COURTS, WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT -- IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO OVERTURN FOR SOMEONE WHO CHALLENGES THE COMMISSION'S QUASI LEGISLATIVE DECISION. THE COURT HAS TO UPHOLD THE DECISION OF THE GOVERNING BODY. IN OTHER WORDS, PEOPLE COULD ARGUE OVER WHETHER IT IS A GOOD DECISION OR NOT OR THE RIGHT DECISION. IT'S STILL GOING TO BE UPHELD.
>> WITH ONE CAVEAT. IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING IN THE
RECORD THAT SUPPORTS IT. >> THAT SUPPORTS THE DECISION?
>> RIGHT. >> AND WHEN WE MAKE THOSE DECISIONS HERE, WE HAVE A PILE OF PAPER LIKE THAT.
SO I'M NOT -- YEAH. >> I KNOW.
>> QUASI JUDICIAL DECISIONS ARE THE APPLICATION OF A POLICY TO A CITY POLICY TO A SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.
SO AN ANNEXATION, A REZONING, A PLAT APPROVAL, VARIANCES OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, CERTIFICATE, SUBJECT TO SESH RARY STANDARD OF REVIEW. WAS THERE A PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. DID EVERYBODY GET A CHANCE TO SPEAK, PRESENT EVIDENCE. WHETHER OR NOT THE COMMISSION FOLLOWED THE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW.
AND WHETHER A DECISION BY THE CITY COMMISSION WAS BASED ON COMPETENT EVIDENCE. I'LL GIVE YOU A SILLY EXAMPLE, BRADLEY. IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMING IN HERE SAYING, AND I'M NOT PICKING ON ANYBODY, THEY'RE SAYING -- AND WE HAVE HEARD THIS A LOT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.
THIS ISLAND IS JUST GETTING SO CROWDED.
THERE'S SO MUCH TRAFFIC. YOU CAN'T ALLOW THIS DEVELOPMENT. THAT IS A PASSIONATE ARGUMENT OF LAY OPINION THAT IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED OR WEIGHED IN YOUR DECISION, OR YOU AFFORD IT VERY LITTLE WEIGHT.
NOW IF YOU HAVE A TRAFFIC ENGINEER THAT COMES IN AND SAYS 8TH STREET IS FAILING, YOU CANNOT TAKE ANOTHER CAR ON THIS STREET. THAT WOULD BE --
>> BECAUSE OF X, Y, AND Z. >> RIGHT.
[01:10:01]
WHAT IS A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING? YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FINDINGS OF FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW.AND AGAIN, APPLICANT REQUESTS A SPECIFIC ACTION.
WHY DO WE HAVE THEM? WE'VE HAD THEM NOT FOR EVEN 50 YEARS. BUT SINCE THE SNYDER CASE WAS IN 1992. SO WE'VE ONLY BEEN DOING THEM SINCE THAT TIME FOR LAND USE. AN EX PARTE COMMUNICATION IS DEFINED THERE, COMPETENCE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
BASED ON PERSONAL OBSERVATION. BE MINDFUL, IT'S NOT JUST A NEIGHBOR SAYING I DON'T WANT THAT NEXT TO MY HOUSE.
KEY POINTS. MUST MAKE IT BASED ON -- YOUR DECISIONS BASED ON THE TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF YOU.
YOU CANNOT CONSIDER ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE HEARING IN MAKING YOUR DECISION. AND THESE DECISIONS ARE INTENDED NOT TO BE POLITICAL. THE RECORD IS VERY IMPORTANT.
IT'S EVERYTHING THAT THE COURT LOOKS AT IF IT'S EVER APPEALED.
TESTIMONY, AND THAT GOES TO WHAT I WAS SAYING BEFORE.
TESTIMONY MUST BE RELATE AND ORIENT TO WHAT WAS SAID IN THE THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS I SAID THE CITY COMMISSION DOES.
THE TYPES OF THINGS CODE ENFOR ENFORCEMENT. THE MAYOR LEADS THE QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING PROCESS. YOU WILL BE ASKED TO DISCLOSE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS. I WILL PRESENT THE PROCEDURES.
AND THE CITY CLERK WILL ADMINISTER OATH TO ALL PARTIES WHO ARE TESTIFYING THEY WILL BE PROVIDING TESTIMONY UNDER OATH.
STAFF PRESENTS THE CASE. THE APPLICANT THEN GETS UP AND PRESENTS THEIR CASE. THE PUBLIC HEARING IS OPEN TO CITIZENS. THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED.
ANY FURTHER COMMENTS BY THE APPLICANT YOU REALLY HAVE TO GIVE THE APPLICANT A CHANCE TOO COME BACK UP AFTER THE PUBLIC DOES. COMMISSION DISCUSSION.
A MOTION AND A SECOND. NOW WE DO COMMISSION DISCUSSION AND THEN WE CLOSE THAT DISCUSSION.
WE MAKE OUR MOTION AND SECOND AT THE NEXT, THE SECOND READING.
>> TAMMI, WHERE'S CROSS EXAMINATION IN THERE?
>> IT'S NOT IN THERE. >> SHOULD IT BE?
>> THEY'RE ALLOWED TWO GENERALLY THE HEARING PROCESS.
BUT DURING THE DISCUSSION OF PROCEDURES.
THE APPLICANT, AFFECTED PARTIES, THEY CAN ASK QUESTIONS OF EACH OTHER AND OF THE OTHER PARTIES.
>> EX PARTE, YOU KNOW, WE DO ASK THAT.
BUT WE REALLY, YOU KNOW, SEEMS LIKE -- I TALKED TO DEVELOPER.
DO WE EVER WANT TO GO FURTHER. WOULD THAT BE UP TO THE
WHEN YOU DISCLOSE AN EX PARTE COMMUNICATION, AND I WILL MAKE SURE TO BE LISTENING TO WHAT -- YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO CLOSE THE DISCUSSION, TOO. NOT EVERY WORD, VERBATIM, BUT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SAY I SPOKE TO THE DEVELOPER.
I HAVE QUESTIONS ON WHERE THEY'RE LOCATING THE PARKING
>> NO, WE NEED TO DISCLOSE. BUT A LOT OF TIMES I'M HEARING DISCLOSURES OF THINGS THAT ARE NOT EX PARTE.
I GOT AN EMAIL FROM, YOU KNOW, SAM SMITH THAT LIVES ON, YOU KNOW, WHEREVER. AND THEN I DON'T GET INTO THAT BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S NOT REALLY EX PARTE.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING WE'VE PRESENTED TONIGHT? NO.
THANK YOU. >> I HAVE A QUESTION UNDER
AGENDA ITEM 4 ON DISCUSSION. >> SO DO I.
>> OKAY. >> THIS IS -- I DON'T KNOW WHERE I GOT THIS FROM. BUT IT'S CALLED GOVERNMENT FINANCE SECOND EDITION. IT'S FROM THE GOVERNMENT FINANCE OFFICES ASSOCIATION. I WISH I HAD READ THIS THREE
YEARS AGO. >> WHAT'S THE TITLE,
COMMISSIONER? >> I WAS GOING TO ASK IF THE CITY MANAGER COULD PROVIDE THIS TO ALL.
IT'S GOT A LITTLE BLURB. THIS REALLY HELPED ME.
BECAUSE IT FOCUSES, IT SCALES DOWN GOVERNMENT, THE WHOLE THING IN GOVERNMENT. WHAT'S GOOD PUBLIC POLICY.
AND I THOUGHT IT WAS EXCELLENT. AND IT'S EASY TO READ.
AND I WISH I HAD IT THREE YEARS AGO.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING, I WOULD APPRECIATE EVERYBODY GET A COPY.
[01:15:04]
AND YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO READ IT.BUT I THINK THAT IT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL.
>> ANYONE ELSE? >> NO, I'M GOOD.
>> OKAY. TAMMI, I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION.
>> SOMETIMES DURING MEETINGS I WOULD OFTEN TRY TO ASK A COMMISSIONER A QUESTION, OR A COMMISSIONER WOULD ASK ME A QUESTION. I CAN THINK OF A COUPLE INSTANCES. AND I GOT STOPPED DEAD IN MY TRACKS BECAUSE THE MAYOR SAID YOU CAN'T -- YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS TO ME. YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
SO I'D LIKE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS COMMENTS ON PROCEDURALLY HOW TO HANDLE THAT. BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE HAVING A DISCUSSION, I THINK A VALID QUESTION WOULD BE WELL, WHAT WOULD YOUR SOLUTION TO THIS BE, FOR EXAMPLE.
>> I AGREE. I KNOW THE INSTANCES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. ON OCCASION IT WAS LIKE A REAL ANNOYANCE. BUT I THINK THE DISCUSSION SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE BACK AND FORTH.
AND PRETTY MUCH, WE DO THAT, I THINK.
>> I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD CUT PEOPLE OFF.
IF YOU WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION, THEN RESPOND TO THE QUESTION.
>> ALL RIGHT. >> WHAT'S YOUR --
>> ON THIS OR SOMETHING ELSE? >> NO.
>> ON THIS. AS I HAVE SAID MANY, MANY TIMES.
THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I CAN TALK TO YOU GUYS AND IT DRIVES ME CRAZY WHEN I'M UP HERE TALKING TO MYSELF AND YOU'VE GOT THREE, FOUR -- AS I ONCE SAID, BUMPS ON A LOG -- YOU KNOW, JUST LOOKING AT ME. LIKE, I WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU GOTTA SAY. YEAH.
>> COMMISSIONER BEAN. >> I WOULD BE OKAY WITH BEING LAX ON THAT RULE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO CODIFY THAT. BUT I WOULD SAY LET'S KEEP THE
CONVERSATION. >> THAT ANSWERS THAT.
>> UM, THIS -- HOW ARE WE GOING TO -- AND THIS DROVE ME CRAZY AND IT DROVE SOMEBODY ELSE CRAZY.
AND I'D JUST LIKE TO GET CONSENSUS ON THIS.
SO I PREPARE FOR THESE USUALLY THE WEEKEND BEFORE BECAUSE I DON'T, I MEAN, I GO THROUGH THAT AS YOU ALL KNOW.
I GO THROUGH EACH ONE. AND I MAY COME UP WITH SOMETHING REALLY COOL. A COOL GRAPHIC OR SOMETHING.
BUT IF I HADN'T SUBMITTED IT BY FRIDAY, I COULDN'T PUT IT UP ON THE BOARD. NOW I UNDERSTAND THE OTHER FLIP SIDE OF THAT, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE DUMPING 10,000 THINGS ON, AT MEETINGS. IS THERE A HAPPY MEDIUM THAT MIGHT ALLOW THAT IF YOU FIND SOME REALLY COOL GRAPHIC OR CHART OR SOME NEW PIECE OF INFORMATION BECAUSE GENERALLY YOU MAY NOT KNOW THIS, BRADLEY, YOU HAD TO SUBMIT IT THE FRIDAY BEFORE. IF YOU DIDN'T GET IT IN BY 5 O'CLOCK ON FRIDAY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE COVID CRISIS, YOU COULDN'T PUT IT UP ON THE BOARD.
AND I FOUND THAT TO BE NOT PARTICULARLY HELPFUL.
>> I DON'T MIND GOING UNTIL SUNDAY.
>> I THINK THAT -- >> I DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT
ANSWER. >> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME SITUATION. I THINK WE SHOULD BE FLEXIBLE THAT WE DON'T PUBLISH EVERYTHING WITH THE AGENDA.
>> THAT'S TRUE. >> BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE FLEXIBILITY.
YOU COME UP WITH SOMETHING -- I GENERALLY DON'T DO THE REAL DETAIL REVIEW UNTIL WEEKEND EITHER.
I'LL LOOK AT IT. I'LL LOOK AT YESTERDAY.
I'LL LOOK AT IT TODAY. BUT I WON'T GO IN ALL THE DETAIL. I AGREE WE SHOULD HAVE SOME
TO YOUR POINT, IT WOULD ALSO BE VERY HELPFUL TO ME THAT WHEN WE SEE THE SAME -- AND HE DISTRIBUTES YOUR INFORMATION, THAT AT THE TOP IF YOU COULD PUT SUBMITTED BY.
BECAUSE OFTENTIMES THE DOCUMENTS, I DON'T KNOW WHO THE
>> AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE, OKAY, NOW -- IF WE COULD DO
THAT, THAT WOULD BE TERRIFIC. >> CALL TO ARMS.
>> NO, NO. I'M THINKING ABOUT YOUR CHARTER OFFICERS. WE'RE THE ONES WHO PREPARE THIS FOR YOU AND SEND THESE DOCUMENTS OUT.
SO WHEN YOU SAY SOME FLEXIBILITY, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO MEET YOUR EXPECTATIONS AS HIGH AS THEY MIGHT BE.
[01:20:02]
IN EVERY CASE. SO IF YOU HAVE A REALLY COOL GRAPHIC THAT YOU WANT TO SEND OUT, ARE WE GOING TO PUT A LINE SOMEWHERE? ARE WE GOING TO MAKE IT MONDAY? THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME LINE. WHAT I'M HEARING IS THE PREFERENCE IS FRIDAY. THAT'S GREAT.BUT HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE IT SO THAT CAROLINE, DALE AND I KNOW, WHOEVER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING THAT.
IT'S USUALLY DALE. BUT IF DALE IS OUT, IT FALLS ON YOU. THAT YOU SUBMIT THE INFORMATION AND THEN WE GET IT OUT ON MONDAY.
IS IT NOON? JUST TELL US WHEN IT IS.
>> YES. THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES US TO PREPARE TO PUT ALL THOSE THINGS THAT YOU WANT US TO DO.
>> AND PUT THEM UP HERE. >> MONDAY MORNING, I'M SPENDING TWO HOURS WITH COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH.
ON TUESDAY MORNING, I'M SPENDING TWO HOURS WITH COMMISSIONER ROSS. AGAIN, IF I HAVE MONDAY AFTERNOON WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT BUILD UP WHILE I'M MEETING WITH COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH, AND THEN TUESDAY MORNING.
SO I WOULD PREFER THAT YOU STAY WITH THE FRIDAY DEADLINE.
BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES TO PREPARE AND FLIP ALL THAT STUFF TOGETHER, I THINK YOU FULLY UNDERESTIMATE.
IT'S NOT JUST AS EASY AS FOR ALL OF YOU.
WE HAVE TO PUT IT IN POWERPOINT FORMAT.
WE HAVE TO LOAD IT ON THE COMPUTER.
YOU SEE ME DOWN HERE ON TUESDAYS AT 5 O'CLOCK UPLOADING
EVERYTHING ON THE COMPUTER. >> I THINK THAT'S KIND OF JUST A
UNIQUE SITUATION I THINK. >> WHAT TAMMI IS SAYING IS WHO IS GOING TO -- IT WAS A FRIENDLY CHALLENGE TO COMMISSIONER LEDNOVICH SAYING, OKAY, THE RULE WAS FRIDAY AT 3 O'CLOCK.
>> ON COVID. >> MY COVID SIGN IS SPECIAL, I
NEED IT THAT DAY. >> YOU OPENED THAT DOOR.
>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT TAMMI IS TRYING TO CLARIFY.
LET'S COME UP WITH THE RULE AND STICK TO THE RULE.
>> THINK ABOUT THAT. >> I'M JUST --
>> NO, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHAT I'M THINKING IS THAT THESE ARE SPECIAL EXAMPLES. AND THAT IF YOU HAD -- IF THERE'S A TOPIC AND YOU DISCOVER A COOL GRAPHIC THAT YOU'D LIKE TO DISPLAY AT THE MEETING, JUST SAY I HAVE THIS COOL GRAPHIC.
WITH YOUR PERMISSION WOULD YOU ALLOW ME TO SHOW.
SHOW IT. THE GRAPHIC IS GOING TO SHOW YOU X, Y, Z. AND IF YOU GET PERMISSION.
>> I GUESS MY SLATE POINT IS WHETHER YOU GET PERMISSION FOR NOT, STAFF HAS TO TAKE THE TIME TO PREPARE IT.
>> IT'S GOTTA BE LOADED. >> WE CAN'T SHARE OUR SCREENS
>> NOT TIED TO THE CITY SYSTEM BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THE PUBLIC COMING UP THERE AND AFFECTING IT.
>> MOST OF THESE TEND TO BE WITH OUR DISCUSSION ITEMS. I GUESS THE OPTION IS TO HAND THEM OUT AT THE MEETING.
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ON THE AGENDA.
I STILL AGREE IF IT'S SOMETHING REALLY FABULOUS.
AND I'M SURE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS THAT CAN BE MADE AS
WELL. >> PUT IT UP ON THE SCREEN.
>> I'D BE CURIOUS TO TALK MORE ABOUT IT.
BUT THINGS AREN'T SUBMITTED WITH THE GENERAL PUBLISHED AGENDA.
I'M CURIOUS TO THINK WHAT HAS BEEN ADDED.
>> ALMOST INVARIABLY PRESENTATIONS ARE NOT ADDED.
>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. HERE'S MY RATIONALE FOR NOT PUTTING PRESENTATION ON THERE IS BECAUSE THEY GET PUBLISHED TO THE PUBLIC. UNLESS SPECIFICALLY DIRECTED, I WILL NOT PROVIDE PRESENTATIONS BEFORE HAND.
THE PUBLIC IS DISCUSSING IT ON FACEBOOK, ON SOCIAL MEDIA BEFORE THE PRESENTER EVEN HAS A CHANCE TO MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION.
THAT'S WHY TYPICALLY DO NOT SEE PRESENTATIONS BEFOREHAND.
>> OKAY. >> AND I WOULD NOTE THAT
PRESENTATIONS -- >> THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION. >> OKAY.
THAT'S HOW IT IS. >> I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION AND
[01:25:01]
THEN I'LL TRY TO GET US OUT OF HERE.>> ALMOST GOT AWAY WITH IT. >> IT'S A HARD HABIT TO BREAK.
>> FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, YOU'LL RECALL THAT WE CHANGED THE ORDER OF COMMISSIONER DISCUSSION ON THE BACK END OF THE AGENDA TO THE FRONT END OF THE AGENDA. AND WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR A WHILE NOW. SO I'D LIKE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHETHER WE SHOULD KEEP IT AT THE FRONT END OR PUT IT AT THE BACK
END. >> I LIKE IT WHERE IT IS.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS LIKES IT WHERE IT IS.
>> I HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS. >> STATE WHY.
>> I THINK IN THE END WE'RE BETTER OFF KEEPING IT IN THE FRONT. IT GIVES AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS SOME STUFF. SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL OF WHAT THE DISCUSSION ITEMS ARE.
BUT I THINK IN THE FRONT IS GOOD BECAUSE THEN YOU CAN DISCUSS IT, AND THE PUBLIC CAN SEE THAT. IF YOU MOVE IT TO THE BACK, THE
PUBLIC IS, THEY'RE GONE. >> COMMISSIONER ROSS, I'M SORRY.
>> HE PUT IT BETTER THAN I CAN. >> OKAY.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO WEIGH ON THIS ONE.
>> THAT'S FINE. >> FIRST LIGHT.
>> I LIT UP. >> IT'S VERY EXCITING.
I'M GOING TO TAKE THE OPPOSITE VIEW AND SAY I LIKED IT BETTER AT THE END AS A FORMER MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC MYSELF, AND STILL A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC. IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT IN THE BEGINNING. AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT COME HERE FOR THAT FIRST OR SECOND AGENDA ITEM.
AND IT'S AN HOUR BEFORE THEY GET TO SEE THEIR AGENDA ITEM.
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND I FEEL FOR THEM.
AND I'VE SEEN EXAMPLES WHERE WE'VE HAD A MEETING AND WE'VE GOTTEN PEOPLE IN HERE FOR THAT ITEM AND THEY SIT THROUGH A THREE-HOUR MEETING. AND THEY MIGHT BE LAST ON THE AGENDA AND WE DIDN'T GET TO THEM AND WE HAVE TO COME BACK NEXT TIME. I WOULD SAY IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T GO TO NEXT TIME IT SHOULD BE US TALKING.
I'M AN ACTION GUY. THAT'S WHAT I GOT.
>> COMMISSIONER ROSS. >> HERE'S WHERE I DISAGREE.
YOU CANNOT BELIEVE HOW MANY TIMES I HEARD, "I NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT." YOU NEVER TALKED ABOUT.
MOST TIMES IT'S BIG ITEMS THAT ARE CONTROVERSIAL.
I WOULD DISAGREE YOU MAY SIT HERE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT WE WILL GET TO YOU. NO ONE'S EVER IN THE THREE YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE, WE'VE NEVER -- CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WE'VE NEVER FLIPPED IT TO ANOTHER MEET ING. AND YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU DON'T WANT TO SIT HERE, THIS IS THE PUBLICS MEETING.
PEOPLE SAY WE NEVERUT THE WATERFRONT.
WELL WE DID. YOU NEVER TALKED ABOUT CONSERVATION. WELL WE DID.
SO WHEN IT GOT PUSHED TO THE BACK OF THE MEETING, IT SORT OF GOT SHUFFLED OFF AND THERE WAS TWO OR THREE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM.
I THINK THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ITEMS FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR ABOUT.
THAT'S WHY I WOULD SUPPORT KEEPING IT THE WAY IT IS
>> DOES STAFF HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS? BECAUSE GENERALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS WITH CITY AGENDA ITEMS, WE
HAVE STAFF WAITING. >> I MEAN, I --
I'D PREFER IT AT THE FRONT OF THE AGENDA.
AND I'D PREFER IT FOR THE REASONS THAT COMMISSIONER ROSS SAID. MOST OF THE MEETINGS ARE THAT PEOPLE ON TELEVISION GO TO SLEEP.
THEY LOSE INTEREST. SO THEY DON'T HEAR YOU TALKING ABOUT THE MARINA. THEY DON'T HEAR YOU TALKING ABOUT LAND CONSERVATION. AND BECAUSE THEY DON'T HEAR IT, THEY THINK THAT IT'S NOT BEING DISCUSSED.
SO WHEN IT'S AT THE FRONT OF THE AGENDA, IT'S ALWAYS DISCUSSED.
AND SO IT'S ALWAYS THERE. IT'S ON EVERY AGENDA.
AND IT'S A DISCUSSION. AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT OCCURS IN THE FRONT END VERSUS THE BACK END.
>> AND ANOTHER OPTION, JUST SO I KNOW IT'S BEEN DISCUSSED.
I KNOW WE HAVE IN YOUR OFFICE HERE AND THERE, IS THAT YOU HANDLE DISCUSSION ITEMS. YOU START YOUR MEETINGS AT 5 O'CLOCK. AND YOU CAN HANDLE SOME DISCUSSION AND START SOME DISCUSSION THEN.
YOU CAN CONTINUE IT UNTIL 6 O'CLOCK.
YOU CAN CUT IT OFF AT 6 O'CLOCK. YOU CAN DO THINGS LIKE THAT.
THE ONE THING THAT WE THINK -- IN SOME CASES IT GOES RIGHT TO OUR BOTTOM LINE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE PAY.
I DON'T WANT TO SAY EVERY MEETING.
BUT NEARLY EVERY MEETING WE HAVE A CONSULTANT IN THIS ROOM THAT IS CHARGING US TO BE IN THESE MEETINGS.
AND WHEN THEY SIT HERE FOR THREE -- SOMETIMES WE GET A FLAT FEE.
[01:30:02]
OTHER TIMES WE DON'T. WE GET CHARGED BY THE HOUR.ITS NOT A LOT OF MONEY BUT IT IS MONEY AND IT'S THEIR TIME.
THEY'RE WAITING ON THOSE ITEMS. >> SOMETIMES IF THAT'S THE CASE, JUST MOVE THEM TO THE FRONT OF THE PILE.
>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
>> WHEN WE'RE PREPARING THE AGENDA, THAT'S WHAT WE WILL GET IS WHAT IS THE ORDER OF THE AGENDA.
THERE'S CONSULTANTS OR PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE HERE, WE TEND TO MOVE THEM FORWARD. THE MORE ROUTINE ITEMS, WE MOVE
TO THE END. >> I THINK WITHOUT BEATING THIS TO DEATH, BY HAVING IT IN FRONT, NOT ONLY DOES THE PUBLIC KNOW WE'RE DISCUSSING IT. WE ACTUALLY DISCUSS IT.
IF WE PUSH THIS BACK, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, WE ACT
LIKE THE PUBLIC GOING TO SLEEP. >> 11 O'CLOCK.
>> SO I THINK IT GIVES THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR A MORE COMPREHENSIVE DISCUSSION BY THE COMMISSION FOR WHAT I WOULD TEND
TO BE IMPORTANT ITEMS. >> THANK YOU, VICE MAYOR.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ITEMS? NO.
WE'LL MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM 5, WHICH IS PUBLIC COMMENT.
AND I DON'T SEE ANY VISITORS. SO I'M GOING TO SAY THERE IS NO PUBLIC COMMENT. BEFORE WE ADJOURN, ANY OTHER BUSINESS? YES, SIR
>> YEAH. I THINK YOU'RE AWARE THAT MR. ALBERT IS -- EX-MAYOR ALBERT IS AT HOME IN HOSPICE.
AND I WAS CONTACTED BY A COUPLE OF PEOPLE AND TALKED TO A COUPLE MORE PEOPLE, INCLUDING HIS WIFE. CAROLINE IS DRAFTING UP A LETTER OF APPRECIATION, WHICH WHEN IT'S DONE AND I ASSUME WE'LL ALL BE HAPPY TO SIGN IT. TAMMI AND I WILL GO AND TAKE IT TO HIM SOMEHOW. HE'S CONSCIOUS AND HE KNOWS
WHAT'S GOING ON. >> IN THE SPIRIT OF CONSENSUS WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, I RECEIVED A LETTER FROM WENDELL THIS MORNING. AND HE IS REQUESTING BECAUSE OF HERE ALBERT'S SERVICE, AND THE FACT THAT HE WAS THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN MAYOR THAT UPON HIS PASSING THAT WE PUT THE FLAG
AT HALF STAFF FOR THAT DAY. >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> EVERYONE AGREE? >> THAT'S FINE.
>> HE WAS IN THE ARMY. >> THAT'S GOOD, TOO.
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP. ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
>> MR. MAYOR,JUST A QUICK NOTE. I'M NOT SURE IF ANY OF YOU -- ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT COMMISSIONER STURGESS, HIS MOTHER PASSED AWAY ON MONDAY. IF YOU WEREN'T AWARE OF THAT.
KEEP HIM IN YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS AS WELL.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? WITH THAT, WE ARE ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.